Thread 49898322

2hu gameplay thread.

Say his name.

Updated thprac for Fossilized Wonders: github.com/touhouworldcup/thprac/releases/tag/v2.2.2.1
Previous thread: >>49762294

>>49898322 (OP)
Why did he do it?
How can a flying triangle pack so much death?

>>49898322 (OP)
Jessie?

>>49898322 (OP)
Thanks for the news about thprac.
I suggest linking the releases page in next time though, in case it gets another update later.
github.com/touhouworldcup/thprac/releases/

So now I got a second Imperishable Moon stone by doing another clear. I assume I just have to clear the game 3 times per main story stone, yes?

>>49897656
Snow Blossom Hyper is situational but it has three really good things going for it. It does absurd damage for a homing attack, it lasts a long time, and you can pop it by intentionally taking a hit to clear bullets around it. MoF hyper is completely useless if it misses, even willingly taking a hit during it nets you zero advantage.

>>49898322 (OP)
This is why you don't get males in 2hu, just look at this asshole and the damage he's done. Pyramid piece of shit.

>>49898322 (OP)
Pyramid midboss ? I should play the game again and get better to try and fight him, he looks cool.

behold, the absolute worst build in the game and it's almost a default

>>49898408
>>49898322 (OP)
>TH20: Fix ST6/Ex boss warps spawning the boss too high (17a970a) @Guy-L
wtf how much does thprac modify the game besides translation?
TH20 is the first time I use thprac ever since hard translations stopped around TH13. Obviously there would be modifications to accommodate text length, but gameplay too? What do purists think about it?

>>49900500
The idea of using something that alters the gameplay itself sounds insane to me.
I want Touhou warts and all.

>>49900500
The simple fact of making you start the game at a specific point constitutes gameplay manipulation.
In this case, it looks like this was sometimes making the boss spawn too high up, and this fix patches that so the original behavior is preserved, but of course I would never use thcrap for anything besides practicing.
I've only used it a few times on EoSD and MoF extra, and promptly restarted the game without it before attempting the 1cc runs.

>>49900383
>Not the IN shot
Could be worse

>>49900586
The Moon shots are awful but they at least come with passive bullet deletion which can ease up some patterns and bully any pattern with bullets that stop in place for a bit, with each deleted bullet generating more stones to get hyper faster. Not worth taking, but still worth more than a shot type that is simply bad at everything.

>>49900523
>>49900576
oh FUCK my bad, I mixed up thPRAC with thCRAP.
Nevermind, I never use thPRAC either. Only had to once to fix a desynched replay in TH17.
>>49900609
>bully any pattern with bullets that stop in place for a bit, with each deleted bullet generating more stones to get hyper faster
Discovered this trick last night and got the clear immediately.

>>49900612
>thPRAC with thCRAP
Yeah, they're pretty easy to confuse with each other.

>>49900609
Is the IN bullet deletion part of the shot itself or is it just there if you have it in the assist slot?

>>49900625
The shot itself. I don't know if the assist even does anything for the shots, but I know that the Moon hyper increases the radius of deletion by a fair amount.

>>49900650
Still seems kind of pointless when you could just slap the moon assist on and have that effect on a better shot

>>49900650
The assist makes your options have a chance to delete bullets. Nothing for the shot itself.

>>49900655
I'm not recommending it by any means, but it's still better than carrying Snow shot which is barely any stronger or better at spread with no added benefit (the backwards shots are way too situational to contribute much, especially when the patterns where you circle around the boss force you to be constantly moving so you don't really get in any extra damage that you wouldn't already get from a stronger shot).
>>49900656
The moon options already do that on their own while they're shooting, that's the point. The assist adds that function to other shots, but is effectively useless on the moon shots as they're already doing that.

>>49900672
Whoops meant to say Season shot, not Snow

>>49900672
>The assist adds that function to other shots, but is effectively useless on the moon shots as they're already doing that.
That makes sense. Even if having it in the slot increases the chance, you're still better off using just about any other stone there.

>>49900692
>Even if having it in the slot increases the chance
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's guaranteed even though the description says chance and the hitboxes are simply very small. It's most noticable with Ariya's nons due to the bullets being fairly bigger, you can consistently clear them with a forward facing shot (Unfocused Subterranean Reimu in particular can guarantee a clear path due to the familiars being in a direct line above her)

>Hard 1CC with Reimu G1
Not a run to brag about but I'm happy to have pulled it off

Master Spark is so sad in FW, it used to be basically a skip button but nowadays it can barely go halfway of a HP bar. Meanwhile Reimu just deletes everything.

>>49901120
>>49901120
Part of me wonders if one of the assists was originally supposed to be the like Byakuren's card from UM and ZUN just set the flags wrong when removing it, because Reimu's bomb here is identical to her buffed one from UM and I genuinely do not understand why there is an assist which just adds a few more power drops a run in a game where you can get 4 POW before the first boss.

>>49900500
Don't listen to the fucking retards. thprac isn't just for practice, it also patches bugs wherever it can. It's almost necessary with FW at the moment because of all the issues there are. Replays are almost guaranteed to get desynced right now if you don't use it.

This was my favorite build so far. Marisa's Y1 focus along with moon denied many attacks before they could get close. Toyohime in particular had some of her spell cards shut down.

>>49901199
>Don't listen to the fucking retards.
You can count me in as a retard as well, I prefer the games as they are with all their flaws.
>thprac isn't just for practice, it also patches bugs wherever it can. It's almost necessary with FW at the moment because of all the issues there are.
I know all that, my whole question was a mixup between thPRAC and thCRAP, and I mistakenly thought the latter also modified game assets that are not related to text/translation.
>Replays are almost guaranteed to get desynced right now if you don't use it.
Is this already fixed? I know this was a major issue with TH17's Animal Spirits spawning being the cause. Presumably the cause for TH20 would be the wonder pyramids' spawning and random movement & firing.

>>49901247
>Is this already fixed?
No. You will get fucked if you don't patch the game. And you probably will even if you do because the bugs aren't 100% fixed.

>>49901256
Thanks for your concern, but I got my 1ccs and recorded the gameplay externally so I'm satisfied. I'll wait for the official fixes from ZUN-sama whenever he releases them. :)

>>49901199
what issues

It's funny how retards are always the first to call others retarded.

>>49901344
It's just what you are.

Fun fact: If you have between 7 and 8 lives when you pick up the midboss 1up in Stage 5 (i.e. 7 1/3, 7 2/3), you will have 8 lives plus how ever many pieces you had. If you collect a life piece at this point, you will lose instead lose life and go back down to the typical max of 8 lives.

>>49898322 (OP)
omg big triangle guy...!
hes me new favourite character i wish he was on this years popularity poll

Got my normal clear. Managed to reach Toyohime only one life piece short of max; choked really hard and decided to just bomb spam, I still can't deal with Toyohime's nonspells
How are people handling completion charts for TH20? The diversity of the shot combinations and the fact that you could just stick any combination of OP focused/unfocused stones on any main story stone makes it seem impossible to organize clears for a chart, unless you want to have more than eight thousand squares per difficulty to account for every combination

>>49901629
>How are people handling completion charts for TH20?
I haven't done a completion chart in ages but I was thinking about that. You can't practically do a multi-dimensional graph to indicate every combination but since the game just kind of treats it like there are only 16 unique shot types anyway that's probably the best way to do it.

>>49901656
I would just note of the specific build used for the clear, maybe you could fill smaller squares or triangles inside a box to just save one build.
If anything a system that specifies if a certain stone has used in a certain position, you don't get every combination but to complete it you would have to use each stone in each position at least once, reducing 8192 cells to 384 yaaay(monotone).
Or maybe we should care less and just stick to 16.
If not we will end with a specific FW 100% meme chart like the IN 100% completion chart.

what was ZUN thinking?

>>49902041
In one of his many drunken haze trips, ZUN thought he was making GFW2 and made a GFW pattern.
Nobody told him we cant freeze

>>49902075
Your IN stone?

Awesome, thought I'd normal 1cced HRTP with my final bomb and no lives left.
And then Sariel decides she's not fucking finished.

>>49902041
Holy fucking shit. This is lunatic right ?

why the fuck is Nareko harder than all the other bosses, even stage 6

>>49902041
I can usually get through the first cycle just fine but the green to red transition specifically is fucked up

>>49900500
you are confusing thcrap (translation) with thprac (cheats and practice mode) and nobody even noticed

>>49898660
You have to clear the game one time per stone per character (16 times total).
If you game over anytime on or past stage 4 you get an extra stone you can slot wherever you like but they don't matter for clears, only if you want to run 4 of the same stone.
By the way you only get the stone if you quit while the yellow text is at the bottom of the game over screen, if you continue you lose it until you game over again

>>49904091
4 of the same stone doesn't make a difference, I understand. It's only the assist stone that has its' full strength compared to the common magic stone.
But that's still helpful for doing 1-3 setups. And it turns out I can get more than 3 of a stone, but it doesn't really make a difference.

You guys weren't kidding about how bad Master Spark is in TH20
I thought "Jessie" was alright because it only cost you one bomb and gave you a full life, but I was using Reimu. I can't believe it's two bombs with Marisa, what the hell ZUN

if there's one thing I was hoping would stay dead forever it's the stupid "end of stage bullets without enemies" thing, I hate it so much

>>49905435
It's kinda fun, it makes my asshole pucker

>>49905435
Nah, it's soulful as fuck and I'm glad it's back.
It's not particularly hard either and it's a nice way of gathering up some juice for the fight ahead.

>>49904213
"Master" Spark needs to go back to school.

>>49898322 (OP)
>wonder stones went from the niggeriest niggers possible in the demo to greatest ally in the full ver
I kinda wish they still posed at least SOME kind of threat, now theyre just free resource piñatas that clear bullets

>>49906437
They can be absolute cunts though
>on extra boss survival spell
>have to move up to get across the river
>asshole spawns on top of me

>>49901629
>I still can't deal with Toyohime's nonspells
I followed what >>49876068 said and it worked. Still a very annoying nonspell.
>How are people handling completion charts for TH20?
Only the main routes towards endings matter, so that's 16 total.
There was a thread either here or /v/ where somebody made a makeshift template, but after searching for the past 2 hours I can't find it.

>>49906437
this >>49906463

>>49902714
And the best part is her second phase is much easier, but since you're usually exhausted in terms of resources you get fucked. I still love plot twists like these.

how the FUCK am i supposed to capture Chocolate River? i keep getting my ass handed to me by the final phase
i still don't know if it's better to stay in the aoe and deal with actual walls coming from all directions or stay outside and deal with the full speed bullets coming from all sides as well

>>49906522
Here's a red pill: enemies should not have collision with the player. It has never been a good design choice.
And before anyone says it yes I am saying that Ubame's second card should be replaced, but mostly because I hate the stress of having to farm that shit for resources.

>>49906863
I think the idea is to stay in the river and circle around the walls that form. I've had some success that way, but straight up walls definitely form. It's kind of possible, but it feels very RNG. I think there's no way you're surviving outside, there's too small of a gap between the edge of the screen and the rivers.
If you aren't trying to no bomb or perfect, I think the best idea is to bomb immediately and try to kill her quick, Reimu with G1 does this well. Feels cheesy though.

>>49906863
idk lol
I've caught it more times than not now but that last part is always tense, rotating with the walls while trying to stay either in one of the inner corners or one of the corners of the wall itself seems to make it easier but that might just be me
Also using onfocused movement when in the walls since focus is way too slow in them

ZUN
ZUN I CAN'T SEE SHIT

>>49906881
i am trying to route the fight for an eventual ExNNN. not quite there yet but i need to capture it and that is the one section that still has me completely stumped

>>49906887
haven't really played around with unfocused movement that much, i'll give that a try

this game is stupidly easy with yellow stone

wait a minute why is there a cat picture there

>>49906914
I can't bring myself to use it, even G1 feels like I'm cheating.
Every game since LoLK has given options that make me feel like I'm cheating. Reisen is cheating, spring is cheating, otter is cheating, now G1 and moon are cheating.

>>49906941
Orin

>>49906944
it's just best shot, I wouldn't call it cheating per se. But it does make the game significantly easier.

>>49906948
I just mean the hyper of G1, not even the shot. If you're doing well you get free bombs, if you're doing bad you get shielded, sometimes I just skip spells I should be getting raped on.

>>49906951
>sometimes I just skip spells I should be getting raped on.
So like... bombing?
You get a shit ton of bombs in this game already anon, I don't see how G1 is any worse.

>>49904213
Does equipping a wide/narrow/assist stone consume it? Or does the little number next to it just represent how many you’ve unlocked?

>>49906979
Why do you mean consume it?
If you only have one unlocked you can only equip the stone to one slot, the more you have the more you can equip at once.
Strictly speaking, there's no benefit to having more than 3 copies of a given stone.

>>49906978
I get way more bombs and sometimes don't even have to use bombs. Better than most other hypers I'd say.

>>49907001
>Better than most other hypers I'd say.
On Reimu? Sure.
On Marisa I'd rather just have the power boost from one of her other hypers.

>>49907007
Guess so, that's just because Master Spark sucks.
If you go for some damaging hyper, it's the same deal, often times you'll just skip a spellcard because of it, same with WBaWC hypers aside from otter.

>>49902714
Alright, first of the PC98 games 1cced on Normal. I kept on the Sariel route and eventually got her final phase out of the way by last-life bombing.

>>49907324
Forgor pic

Is there any particular trick to Nina's non-spells? Or are they just random dodging? They seem really hard compared to most other Extras but maybe I'm just retarded and there's a simpler pattern I'm not seeing.

>>49907498
I've found the first two to be quite doable but the rest are pretty difficult, intersecting bullets like that are my bane
They definitely get progressively harder

>>49907498
there is a slight pattern but it's pretty hard to explain, the bullets tend to form little mini waves in alternating directions so when they begin to cluster up you need to look for the next opening in the opposite direction

>>49907498
You run up to them and get as much incident meter as you can before they kill you.

The resources you get with Marisa G2 are utterly mindblowing to me. I just 1cc'd with the shottype on my first try (barring a few nonstarters I quit in the first two stages), assuming it was a failed run when I ended stage 4 with two lives, but then got back up to 5 by the time I reached Toyohime. I really like the incident attack the shottype has, too.

I'm starting to get afraid I'm choosing the best shottypes at random and that it's all downhill from here. I did experience how bad Marisa B1 is, so I have some context at least; am I crazy or does Marisa B1's incident attack have lower DPS than just shooting normally, even before you factor in that you can't focus on the stones while it's active so it fucks over your resource gathering?

>>49907895
you're in for bad news if you think MariB1 is bad, that's pretty much the best focused shot in the game (arguably ReiG1 but that is due to niche situations)

>>49906437
I did notice the stones were actually more akin to bonus ressources than fucking you in the ass alongside any remotely difficult paterns when they appeared, did Zun nerf their HP ?

>>49909860
Less HP, feels like less bullets, they spawn more often too

>>49907895
>>49909837
Marisa Y1 B1 G2 whatever passive is the strongest shot combination in the game imo, and the first one I Lunatic 1cc'd the game with. G2's shot is insanely good for building up incident gauge but having it on both slots does lead to a few issues in not being able to focus down enemies as well, so having B1's really strong and narrow enough shot compliments it nicely.
>am I crazy or does Marisa B1's incident attack have lower DPS than just shooting normally
B1 on its own already has really good damage, the advantage of B1's incident attack is that it gives you that same damage but on a long lasting homing hyper. It's genuinely really bad on stages 90% of the time thanks to being weirdly bad as building combo, but in those instances you just pop it asap to get the screen clear.
G2's hyper is worse when you get to higher difficulties, too unreliable and too prone to just firing off in the middle of auto collection or bombing which completely wastes it. It's really nice when it works but anything it does another hyper does much better. I'd bring up that Y1's hyper completely outclasses it at everything it's trying to do but that's not entirely fair when Y1 hilariously outclasses every hyper except for MAYBE G1 on Reimu specifically.

>>49909936
Pretend I said Y2 instead of Y1. Y1's hyper is a lot less impressive. Kind of underrated though, even if it's not great the leniency it grants is nice and makes it a good low stress shot if you're tired of running into shit while trying to supergraze and just want a fun playthrough.

>>49909950
>Y1's hyper
I wish it lasted longer
I'd like it more than Y2 since it feels less cheaty but as it stands it runs out so quick it usually just does nothing for me

>>49909936
>>49909950
I find my best runs to be with Y1, but that's probably because I'm a fairly inconsistent player and am prone to randomly exploding. I've ended Lunatic runs near max lives with both characters using it but only just barely clench out a win when using Y2 which is honestly one of the worse performing ones for me. Can't explain why.

>>49909962
That's the give and take with Y1. It's the most fair and honest hyper with almost no potential for cheese in that it's purely an insurance hyper, that makes it feel good to use but at the same time it's kind of disappointing when you inevitably get hypers where it technically didn't do anything.

>>49909998
No I get it, at least for Y1. I think there's a very genuinely underrated psychological element to Y1 where you're under a lot less pressure while it's active (outside of a few cases that were designed to specifically say fuck you to the hyper safety net, like Ariya's final card). It's easier to dodge things when you're not worried about accidentally fucking up and losing a life. It's why these types of shield bombs are genuinely some of my favorites in the series, coincidentally SA's Marisa C is my favorite implementation of the idea in a bomb.
I just wish it gave you a bit more upon popping, like maybe clearing bullets in an area whose radius decreases the more hits you took while the hyper was active. Would make it less disappointing when the hyper goes off and you don't get anything out of it.

Got my first 1C in Fossilized Wonders today, finally I can once again say that I 1C'd all mainline Touhou games until new one comes out.
Honestly it took longer than I would have liked but I am still happy I did it.
Can't wait to play around with the other gems and also try out Marisa.
I have to dwelve further into the soundtrack but it seemse great as per usual for ZUN.
Very satisfied with the game, while the gimmick is there it isn't as in your face, I loved Unconnected Marketeers but I have a soft spot for Touhou games like this where ZUN goes "back to basics" so-to speak.

>>49910099
Now clear the extra stage

>>49910099
>41 retries
>Reimu R1
wat the fugg

>>49910099
>1C
>1C'd
brother you're missing a c

You know, I'm genuinely surprised at how well balanced this game is overall. Obviously there's standout favourites for each slot but I can genuinely see the merit in pretty much every stone except for MB1 Hyper, MB2/G1 shots and the B2/Y1 Assists and specific shot placements like don't use the R1s for your unfocused slot.
Even Reimu Y1 Focused which I thought would be buns is actually a pretty relaxing shot to just sit at the bottom of the screen with if you're not yet comfortable with the game's mechanics.

>>49909837
Maybe I just hated the main stone then, I haven't messed with customizing my shottype yet. I'll have to do more runs to get a better opinion of this game's options

>>49910257
>You know, I'm genuinely surprised at how well balanced this game is overall.
I don't know if I'd really agree with that, there are just some shots that are strictly worse than others and some shots that just really aren't worth using. The hypers are somewhat balanced by the fact that you can just stick good shots on any of them, but there are still clear winners and losers.

>>49906941
Chernobyl kot
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Utsuho_Reiuji#Additional_Information

>>49910299
Other than the two Marisa shots I already mentioned I really don't think there's any shots that are strictly worse overall. The most mediocre is probably Reimu B2 shots when you can place B1/R1 as your unfocused and focused shots instead but even then I can see them being a comfort pick for a more patient NMNB run given how many patterns in the game force you into specific positions.

>>49897020
The power of perseverance...

>>49911373
I feel that, my first few Extras were near perfect then later ones kept getting worse and worse until I was straight up losing runs
especially the nons, I didn't even think they were a threat the first time fighting her and now I screw up damn near all of them

>>49907324
Good Job. The same kinda happened to me when I started with the game, getting to that part with zero bombs and then spamming bombs. Just to realize how dam simple the patterns are once the stakes weren't that high.
Hell route is easier(if you haven't done that one before) so you'll get that one faster.

>>49904036
At the very least feels harder than the stage 4 boss to me; she's a total bombeater.

I have only captured Danmaku Pyramid twice out of about 70 attempts now.

>>49900383
I'm starting to think that full MarisaB2 is actually weaker because the hyper you get from the main B2 stone doesn't really do anything without your shots. The homing from B1 is retarded but at least it does some damage.

No equip R1 clear. I wonder if this replay will also be desynced like every single other one I made.
I'm gonna go for an LNB with whatever's the most broken shot combination and then try to survive the stage 5 midboss once before moving on from FW for the time being.

>>49912681
>I wonder if this replay will also be desynced like every single other one I made.
Huh, it actually isn't. Can't tell what I did differently at all. Maybe I didn't skip the stage clear screens like you're supposed not to.

Dunno if this has been answered already, but what's the logic behind wonder stones dropping life or spell pieces? Is it pre-determined?

>>49910105
I'll practize there too, I already beat some extra stages in other Touhou games but they are my weakness, I was shocked I managed to clear some.
>>49910184
That's mostly because
>I suck
>I press retry a lot wat the first few stages when I get hit even once which probably counts to it
>I experimented with the main gimmick, experimenting how it functions to understand it, which lead to a lot of understands
A lot of excuses.

>>49910099
It's 1cc for "one-credit clear", japs call it "no-continue clear" (no-con clear).

>>49914047
I see, I always called it "1C" and no one corrected me for all these years, thank you.

>>49912890
It's just a cycle, bomb piece bomb piece life piece repeat.

This is acutally my favorite game in years, I kind of love everything about it, really happy, the OST is also full of highlights. Stage 4 boss theme sounds so dark to me, some of the darkest tones ZUN allowed to use in a while I feel. Really amazing work all around.
Off topic, but since when did ZUN start sampling guitar so much? I think it was since Imperishable Nights it started appearing but it became more present ever since, I really like that.

>>49914751
I didn't really notice prominent guitar riffs until DDC.

>>49912575
Nah Seasonal Hyper is amazing, you get a very long period of basically being invulnerable while clearing half the screen ontop of the ability to cancel whenever you want by running into a bullet above the halfway point and the tiny bit of backwards homing shot as a bonus
the only thing that sucks is it is goddamn visual and audio cancer, the only reason I don't use it is because of how loud and distracting it is

>>49912899
>A lot of excuses.
That's fine at least you're honest. Was only surprised you said you cleared other games yet you seemed to have difficulty with this one.

Goddamn, Marisa is just so BAD. I'm doing a Normal main-only 1cc run (I'm this retard >>49896401), with Reimu all the _1 gems and Marisa all the _2 gems, and every Reimu run was completed from the first attempt, while Marisa had to be done multiple times.

I thought Y2 was a nightmare since the options float around randomly to be of any use, but B2 is like a worse version of G1 and does even LESS damage. Only R2 was decent. God help me if G2 is also trash.
I thought we could end the Marisa hateposting of last thread but fucking hell this is torture.

>>49915568
If you're playing on normal your opinion on what is or isn't good genuinely holds zero weight.

>>49915568
G2 Marisa is the second best default set in the game, only beaten out by G1 Reimu due to how strong her bombs are
there will never be a game where frogs aren't absurdly good and this game especially loves splash damage

>>49915596
Honestly the only downside of G2 is the hyper being unweildy. Everything else about it is great, even the damage.

>>49915593
Thanks for your equally useless comment
>>49915596
Nice!! that's good to hear, finally a redemption arc for Marisa.

Dumb question but what exactly does 'Perfect' mean in FW? Obviously No Miss/No Bomb and I'm guessing No Hyper Breaks too, but are there any extra conditions? I've seen videos talking about neutral hypers or no equip or whatever, and I guess I still haven't played around with other shot types that much because I have no clue what that means. Are certain shot types "banned" (or at least discouraged because of broken mechanics) from challenge runs?

>>49915906
I would assume Yellow1's hyper is probably the best for a 'perfect' run since it doesnt do anything if you arent hit, while most of the other ones either clear bullets or enhance DPS

>>49915906
I assume it means no moon in any slot and stick to Beast Hyper
>>49915933
that one clears a very small circle around you when it ends automatically so it's technically doing something

What's the best combination? Specifically for extra stage.

>>49916489
Y2 Hyper
B1 or R1 Focus Shot
R2 Passive
Either G1 as Reimu or G2 as Marisa for Spread Shot

G1 Hyper falls off a bit in extra for obvious reasons, but it's not terrible.

>Y1's ability to delete bullets when grazing completely invalidates the gimmick of Ariya's spell that covers the screen with permanent bullets
lol, lmao
I'm surprised I went as far as the second to last spellcard on a full Y1 run of normal despite being shit who can't 1cc anything above easy given how bizarre these shots are, it's like wide and narrow are inverted and them being so far from you means that anything that gets close will get you. I guess that just proves how absurd Reimu's bomb is.

stage 5 practice going pretty well

>>49917012
wowza

>>49898322 (OP)
i hope the next mainline games actually hard

>>49917118
Don't hold your breath. 20 was supposed to be a return to games being hard, according to ZUN, and the demo was giving out clear signs of that, but then he backed down due to the feedback he got. He should stop listening to people.

>>49917118
>>49918385
congratulations on your normal clears

What would you guys say the best focused shot for Marisa is? R1 does the most forward damage, I assume?

>>49919934
Honestly all of them are good options outside of moon and the two shitshots (B2/G1)

R1 is the most consistent high damage and the technical highest fire rate from being a constant laser means it does a good job of defeating pyramids quickly without being walled by hordes, but obviously has the least range
R2 is a fair bit weaker but splash makes it great for stages and pyramids while having more consistent damage due to more range
B1 is incredibly strong, has a bit of spread and tiny bit of splash so it's all around good and has a bit of shotgun potential - probably the best overall but a little more susceptible to being walled and the other shots are more than worth taking if they cover a weakness of yours
Y1 is like R2, great range for keeping consistent uptime on an enemy if you can't stay below them and displaced familiars make them great for gunning down pyramids quickly while also dealing with enemies around them so you don't get overwhelmed. I like this one the most myself cause it's not that much weaker than R1/B1 while giving you a lot more freedom to move and a lot of control over pyramids.
And then G2 is frogs. I don't think that needs any explanation.

>>49919934
B1 has comparable damage at range, better shotgun damage and slightly better spread, there's little reason to use R1 over it.

>>49919934
I started with R1 but eventually found more success with B1 (coupled with R2 for focused damage up)
Very similar in damage output with a slight edge for R1 at the bottom, but B1's shotgunning saves a good few seconds on bosses, and FW's late game is filled with opportunities to use it, namely Toyo nons and half of Ariya's spells. Said shotgun is very generous too, this isn't a superplayer hug the boss pixel for good results.

>>49919995
>>49919981
>>49919979
Imo R1 feels awkward because it's not that much better at killing bosses than R2 and not that much better at sniping pyramids than B1. What results is a kind of awkward middle child where R2 is better if you struggle with stages while B1 is better in boss fights.

I see, B1 will probably help plenty with Ariya's fight if the shotgun is that good. R2 is good enough for every stage portion on Lunatic but I guess I'll switch to frogs if I get too annoyed. Thanks.

>>49920044
B1 also arguably has the best synergy with Y2 if you use it, thanks to the circling options giving complete coverage.

>>49920057
I actually think R1 is better for the delete strat because they're more tightly packed together, the hitboxes on your familiars are very small for the Y2 assist so while circling familiars does cover every angle you're also basically just gambling on when it will actually save you. The R1s give you more control on what you want to destroy and are particularly powerful against when bullets have no curve to them or where you're mostly doing horizontal movements (which makes Ariya in particular very weak to R1 placement)

>>49920071
Outside of Lunatic it's pretty rare for stuff to actually get through B1, and there are enough weird bullet angles in this game that I think full coverage is worth it.

Oh - forgot to mention I'm using the moon hyper and relying a lot on how the R1 options sit right in front of you to delete bullets with. Is B1 the same?
Should probably just open the game and try instead of asking but I don't even have it unlocked yet.

>>49920100
That's fair, I was only really looking at it from a Lunatic/EX perspective
B1 is just way too unreliable as a shield there and I'd rather just go creature or scarlet assist if I'm running that shot

>>49920122
B1 is reliable but you can't expect it to, say, absorb an entire stream of bullets in the same way. You're trading full coverage for the requirement that you're still moving out of the way somewhat.

>>49920131
Hm, alright then. I just have to see for myself. Probably gonna be worse for what I'm doing if it doesn't let you go AFK like R1 does.

Is the translation out yet?

ReimuY2 might as well not have options what the fuck
Thank you ZUN for adding the whole customization autism for shots that are helpless like this but have good passives and hypers

>>49921864
Has been.

Hello friends what is the easiest extra for me to challenge as a shitter? I only 1cced normal mode in Ten Desires and Unconnected Marketeers

>>49922549
16 or 17
16 is gimmickier (releases)
17 has easier patterns
17 is by far easiest if you use otter but then you would not have beat the game

>>49922549
7

>>49922549
I never touch Extra and I beat DDCs in my first try. Just use one of the OP shots.

>>49922821
this is cheating since phantasm is the real extra

>>49922549
It took me one attempt to clear 17's extra as wolf reimu, but I already cleared the previous extras before it.
16 is also easy: whenever you see a new spellcard, figure out where and when to drop a season release in spell practice.

ZUN is kind of a bitch for not giving full power items before the final spell anymore.

>>49898322 (OP)
Is LoLK Hard and Lunatic theoretically only a little bit tougher as Reisen? There are more bullets on screen so that means a guaranteed life piece every chapter, right?

>>49923745
Just play PD lunatic for a taste test, there's a pretty significant jump if you're just talking about going from Normal to Lunatic. Even with Reisen's bombs.

>>49923745
you mean tougher compared to other shot types? or compared to Normal? Reisen kinda just breaks the game completely anyways so yeah if you just wanna cheese it then it's only a bit tougher. if you are playing normally though then the difficulty spike in Lunatic is pretty massive compared to the amount of additional resources (which aren't really that much, you can already farm life pieces really easily in Normal), so no it's definitely significantly harder in a regular run

>>49923745
Even without prior Lunatic experience I think you could probably brute force it, yeah.

>>49923763
>>49923797
>>49923802
Understood, thanks for the replies.
I'm trying to do Extra as Reisen, and the bad habit of wanting to have a bomb up at all times is very punishing, especially against the nonspells. Special mention to both Hecatia's blue ones, second pink one, and both Junko's. I thought Legacy Hard might be easier to tackle instead.

>>49923745
I find Lunatic Reisen to be the easiest run in the entire series because of just how easy getting lives is, if I go into PDH with less than max lives then it's a bad run

>>49922373
In-game? Where?

>>49924255
thcrap has it

>>49923845
Although Reisen probably has the easiest extra, it's still not super easy. Some patterns take awhile, and you have way less time to farm up resources.

Why did zun make a graze-focused game have no graze counter?

I played the extra stage for 6 hours straight and the furthest i got was her timeout spell with 10 seconds to go, what the fuck was ZUN thinking with this fight and stage

>>49925763
It's fun
What are you struggling with in specific?

>>49925763
how are you struggling with the stage

>>49925792
NTA but the last couple nons are fucking insane. At least they have relatively low HP I guess, but they are still obnoxious

>>49925833
They are tough, almost Hecatia tier, but with hypers and bombs in this game at least you can kill them quick

>>49925792
All the random bullet bullshit, I can only dodge Yuiman's spells with about a 50% success rate. Same with most of Nina's spellcards. The second one and the one before the timeout are about the only ones I feel super confident in dodging. Her nonspells are super stressful as well and usually end up getting a bomb out of me past the first 2-3. Wish you could at least practice them or something. New World Order is fucking insane and I hate that I have to time it out every single time because ZUN can't balance health bars around movement-focused spells.
>>49925828
Just 2 really annoying bits in particular: the first group of big fairies that shoot a spam-circle of random red bullets and that one bit where the fairies at the top spawn and shoot a wall of red bullets straight downwards in 2 salvos. The latter in particular usually gets a bomb out of me unless I get lucky with the MoF bomb circle thing or a pyramid kill.

>>49925845
With Yuiman's first spell, try to stay in the middle for as long as you can, that seems to be the trick, gives you more time to react. 2nd spell really isn't that hard, annoying but just give it some practice. Last is random bullshit go so I get you there.
For NWO, if you circle around her quick enough you can sit at the bottom and focus shot her for a bit, usually you want to move up after 2-3 hands pass you. Don't just constantly circle her.

>>49925859
Yuiman's second spell is really fucking annoying maybe it's because I've been doing this for 6 hours but I went from clearing it to just getting impatient with the bullshit hits I'd get sometimes and just bombing it, fuck this.

I set a rule for myself by the way: if I lose a life in the stage, I restart, and I'm only allowed to bomb starting from Yuiman's 3rd spell. Needless to say I restarted this stage a lot... fucking hell.
I got to Nina's 2nd-to-last spell twice as I said. Other than that, the 2nd closest I got was a single time where I got to NWO. Every other attempt ended before that because of my restarts.

>>49925792
i feel like the only retard that does pretty well at the last phase of the survival but still can't capture it because i always die in the first half
those phase transitions always get me, trying to move out of the rivers too early gets me sniped near the walls and doing it too late means the whole edge of the river is covered by a wall of bullets so i die

>Try to practice Tide-Ebbing Jewel
>Beating the card will wipe the bullets that block the wave but not the wave itself so I get K.O.'d
Lunarians, man.

Does anyone else use the Sega Saturn controller

>>49925960
You joke (probably, I hope), but I don't understand how anyone plays with any controllers.
SOC uses D-pad, right? How the fuck even? Does it not restrict you to having to use a thumb and nothing else?

>>49925881
The second spell is all about patience. Also, I understand trying to preserve resources, but trust me, you can bomb during the stage just fine. Aim to die once before Nina and make sure to use your bombs at the parts you're struggling with.
A run that gets further into Nina is a run where you learn more. If you beat your head against the stage too hard you may just be accomplishing nothing.
>>49925891
Yeah for me the big challenge is the end and the transitions like you said. Even though you can predict where you need to be ahead of time, sometimes even if it isn't hard to survive getting through a river, it still places you in a suboptimal position for the next river because you just didn't get through fast enough or you're too far away etc.
It's not a BAD survival, but it does feel a bit bullshit-y at times.

>>49925984
>you can bomb during the stage just fine
I cannot. I run out of resources at Nina. Having always used up all my bombs before dying aside from a single time (so just two bombs lost) I made it to the end of the timeout as I said. I don't know what awaits me at her final spell (don't tell me, I'm keeping myself blind on purpose) but I sure as hell know I'm not getting through it with just 2 bombs.

>>49925960
I use the retrobit clone of a Saturn controller, if that counts.

>>49925988
Well that's my point, if you bomb during the stage in order to reach her more consistently, you'll have more experience with her. How many times have you actually reached her in those 6 hours?
I've learned that, for myself at least, going through with my failed runs actually leads to successful runs sooner than restarting.

>>49925992
I also use that

>>49925976
The Saturn had a huge shmup library, and I fail to see how a dpad is that much worse than a keyboard or arcade stick. The Saturn controller also has shoulder buttons, so you can put Slow or Bomb on a trigger if you want.

>>49925960
Managed my first 1ccs (SoEW) with a keyboard, granted I had to cross my arms to be able to mash properly
Got 1ccs with all shots in LLS after switching to an Arcade stick
Currenty using pic related trying to 1cc MS. It works fine

>>49926005
>How many times have you actually reached her in those 6 hours?
I can't tell you for sure, but double digits. It's just that I've spell-practiced her first handful of spells so many times I see little point in keeping on going unless I know I have the resources to maybe get a successful run in. I know the gimmick of her spells, yeah, whatever. But there's so much spread and RNG involved I can't do it consistently no matter how many times I bang my head against this wall.

>>49925976
I've been using a 3rd party XBox controller for months now and my biggest issue has been games before 17 not recognizing the trigger so I have to cope with using the bumper instead.

>>49925763
>>49926047
Are you doing a special run like NMNB or a regular one?
Also what are your gems?

>>49926047
You still get quite a bit of resources though. A bomb against a few of her spells isn't crazy. Add in hypers and pyramids and you have quite a bit of wiggle room.
I'd recommend practicing against the ones you have the most difficulty with at least, especially NWO. If you can learn to cap it consistently, that will help a lot, because timing it out sounds like a resource drain or time waste, either of which just adds to nerves.
What stones are you using? Some definitely have an easier time than others.

>>49926075
Regular, see >>49925881
I'm using Marisa with the MoF stone on every slot except the bottom. I have the WBaWC stone on the bottom for the increased recharge on the MoF orb.

>>49926085
>>49925881
>I set a rule for myself by the way: if I lose a life in the stage, I restart, and I'm only allowed to bomb starting from Yuiman's 3rd spell. Needless to say I restarted this stage a lot... fucking hell.
Cut this habit honestly. It's not healthy and won't lead to any meaningful progress.
Got any extra clears before?
Are you open to changing your top and bottom gems to IN? I did a casual run (as opposed to with intention to 1cc) as Marisa using clockwise from top: IN - EoSD - IN - WBaWC , and I managed to reach Chocolate River in my first attempt. The gems did a lot of heavy lifting obviously and I had to be strategic with my hypers and pyramids, and I've never encountered all of the nonspells and spellcards before.
Hopefully you'll get it soon, but don't stress yourself with long stretches of brute-forcing it.

>>49926085
Try WBaWC hyper, PCB focus, MoF unfocus, whatever passive for Marisa, prob EoSD. Not too strong, still pretty good.
WBaWC hyper is nice for rewarding you for doing good and still providing a shield regardless.

>>49926112
>Got any extra clears before?
Yes. DDC, HSiFS, WBaWC and UM.
>Are you open to changing your top and bottom gems to IN
Sure, but wouldn't that be kinda bad with MoF gems? I did try IN top and bottom at first but that was with Reimu.

>>49926119
>WBaWC hyper
Dude I appreciate the advice really but I HATE this hyper with a passion, it lasts nothing, does little to no damage and is a fucking slap in the face for anyone who enjoyed Marisa Wolf in WBaWC.
>PCB focus
No can do, I need the spread and AoE from MoF when I focus, and I focus a lot in the stage and boss fight. Normally I'd just unfocus whenever I need to but I just can't do that for the stage.

>>49926246
I wouldn't use IN hyper at all unless you want full on easy mode.
If you're open to using Reimu, WBaWC focus shot does do really well.

>>49926252
>full on easy mode
I was at it for 6 hours today, I think anything goes at this point. Probably wouldn't even make it that much easier than MoF's hyper considering how long it takes to charge up.

How do you remap the joystick in Neko Project
Trying to map a button to Focus for Lotus Land Story/Mystic Square, right now by default it just has it so A and B are shoot and X and Y are bomb and nothing else

>>49926330
Don't think you can remap inputs on NP
I'm using JoyToKey to play with a controller

>>49926257
The thing is, it just clears shit all on its own with the damage it does. I doubt MoF's hyper compares damage wise. You can try either or.
I think the absolute strongest shot combo is probably Reimu IN hyper/WBaWC focus/whatever unfocus (maybe PCB for quicker NWO but probably doesn't matter)/EoSD passive.

>3 miss no bomb run on FW extra
>all deaths are on each of the last 3 nons
Man this is fucking stupid, it feels so close yet so far away because I have no clue how to tackle those
At least Mokou had only one stupid non so I just had to pray to RNG once, but what the fuck am I supposed to do when it's this many? Is manipulating Wonder Stone summons the only realistic, consistent option?

>>49926246
NTA but by WBaWC Hyper they probably mean G1, the Beast Hyper
that's the one that gives you a bomb piece if you don't get hit for the entire duration

>>49925102
He's a hack, nothing less and nothing more.

>>49925976
>Does it not restrict you to having to use a thumb and nothing else?
That's its very advantage, movement is simpler and more intuitive.

>>49926055
Try antimicroX, it lets you bind triggers to keyboard presses.

>>49926455
That's the one I used at first, but I found that it charged up too slow compared to the MoF one.

Attempt 1 died at flat earther
G1 Hyper, G2 Focus & Spread, R2 Passive

Do you guys prefer Creature Red's Passive to get more incident attacks or Shintoism Wind's Passive to make them last longer?

Attempt 2 died at flat earther
Same gems

>>49927664
Former seems better. I honestly don't even know if the Shintoism one works properly.

Attempt 3 died at the non-spell after chemtrail cloid
Same gems

Attempt 4
Switched to Y2 top & bottom, kept G2 left & right.
Beat her, finally this fight felt fair.

>>49927826
>Switched to Y2 top & bottom
lmao I told you so

>>49929303
Yeah, thanks for that. I was severely underestimating it due to its' long recharge compared to G2's hyper, which most of the time was "good enough" for me.

>>49927826
Yep Y2 is nutty
Grats