Thread 64012197

I genuinely would like to hear your opinion on forced reset triggers/ super safeties.
https://strawpoll.com/PKgleJ6OQZp

>>64012197 (OP)
haha gun go brrrrrt

>>64012197 (OP)
Full auto (yes, I know) is a meme up until it suddenly isn't and then it makes a world of difference
>Oh shit there's a nog in my house chimping out and he really needs to die right fucking now or else my wife and kids are gonna die
Stuff like that

>>64012197 (OP)
They are both a fun toy and a useful tool

Rare breed sucks fat cock though

>>64012197 (OP)
God I really want one of these to put in an MG-42
>>64014607
Whats going on with Rare Breed? I've only been able to find them making the triggers

>>64012197 (OP)
I hate that we have to settle for great value(tm) machine guns. I just wish they’d start churning these out for PCCs (the cuck term for a neutered SMG).

Also I don’t see the current status quo holding forever. These things are functionally full auto. Something will change, for better or for worse.

>>64014898
They brokered a deal with the ATF. IIRC they're allowed to continue making and selling FRTs under the conditions that they never develop one for handguns and enforce a monopoly on the design
>>64014919
There's MP5 ones right now as well as AR-9s, luv me AR-9. As for the second part, personally I'm fine if we keep this current status quo and they slowly become a normal thing you can buy at any store just like what AR pistols did to SBR laws. I know that's not happening but a man can dream, no? I just hope there's not gonna be a change in decision

>>64015820
Government sanctioned monopolies are a thing in the USA?

>>64016182
They aren't supposed to be, but they do be. Its why we dont get tax bills but gotta go pay the turbotax man if you want to have some protection from the irs.

>>64016182
Yes, it's called a patent, retard.

>>64016273
Well specifically, as I've heard it, Rare Breed is legally obligated to take any and all other FRTs on the market to court. They have to enforce their patent or break the agreement they made with the ATF. Then again I have no clue how they're supposed to enforce that rule, especially if RBT goes bankrupt from all the lawfare

Fun, and in maybe a few miche cases practical. I mainly want one for my m72 to waste ammo at the range.

>>64016189
This is the danger if you don't formalize things that are actually useful to have in your society because you're ideologically opposed to their existence, you end up with some kind of shitty version of it with less features and safeguards.

Like the US not having a national ID system, so social security numbers get used as a de facto ID. Same thing with communist societies that tried to do away with money, people started using other things as currency, and then eventually they had to reintroduce money but call it something more palatable like ration credits or whatever.

>>64016683
They're legally obligated to attempt to enforce their patent which they were doing anyway. If a court says that the design in question is non-inffinging then there's nothing else they ned to do.

>>64016683
Rare Breed spent millions fighting the ATF to get that court ruling. I doubt they're legally obligated because that sounds like another dicking down by the courts but they sure as shit aren't going to let anyone make money off their design now. Not trying to defend them, they're shitheads for acting the way they are, but if you had to defend not only a patent but your entire business and asshole from federal prison you probably wouldn't be too keen on any retard that waited in the wings for things to shake out sticking his fingers in your pie either.

>>64016683
What's the actual sauce on this? Sounds extremely fishy to me, the ATF isn't going to let them have a pass on it being an MG just because they enforce the patent. If it isn't an MG then there's no leverage for that legally, and I cant even imagine how thoroughly unimpressed a judge is going to be with those sorts of shenanigans if the ATF ever tried to enforce it or went back on it.

>>64016182
That's what patents literally are. Limited time monopolies.

>>64017136
Google "legal settlement".

like most things in politics these days, the volatility isnt good for us in the long run. I'd rather give up FRTs and have the SC rule semi auto / mag bans unconstitutional instead of this, because all it takes is a democrat strongman to be elected next election cycle and ban all guns like they did in Canada.

>>64012197 (OP)
>>64015820
Umm correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Franklin Armory do something very similar or do they just buy rights to the license/patent or something?

>>64019114
They make binary triggers which are now obsolete in favor of FRTs and super safeties, just like bump stocks are.

>>64014919
If they become sufficiently widespread in use by law-abiding citizens, it could lay the groundwork for a future lawsuit to overturn the machine gun ban.

Buy. Proliferate them. Simple as that.

>>64017059
Who eats a pie with their hands? Is that part of the saying? Implying that the person eating your pie is like some retarded animal not only by way of them eating a pie that isn't there, but by doing so not with a fork and knife (loicensed hopefully) but rather with their hands?
Hmmm

>>64014898
Well semi converted mg42s use Ar15 FCGs so...

>>64012197 (OP)
I hate them because they didn't exist 5-10 years ago back when ammo was actually cheap. One mag of 5.56 is $12 right now. Who wants to burn through that just to magdump into trash? 9mm is half that, but still. Seems like the gimmick would get old after a few days.

>>64017450
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

>>64021662
I'm having a blast shooting my mp5. While 9mm isn't as cheap as it used to be, it's still way cheaper than buying a 36k transferable trigger pack to get the same feeling.

>>64019531
That's the whole point of the saying. It's your pie, you don't want anyone else putting their dirty fucking dickbeaters in it and scooping out filling like a filtht animal.

>>64021665
I get it, and I agree personally. but if we applaud changes to gun law based on the executive branch acting stronger, won't the opposite happen if they get a democrat in there?

>>64021887
american politics has no room for your measured and thoughtful approach. We'll just keep being belligerent and idiotic and pass nonsense laws at each other maliciously while wasting billions in taxpayer money. It's easier this way, we don't have to think as much.

>>64021662
>Seems like the gimmick would get old after a few days.
Seems like the primary ones that complain about these things don't own one.

>>64021914
yeah well, it is true. we've gotten further with shock and awe campaigns than with measured compromised approaches. Here in CO, they tried to ban semi-autos and they ended up compromising with a state registry + training classes thanks to the gun groups pushing back hard, not with normal measured discourse. At the end of the day it is infringement but it is also a win to not have guns banned outright.

>>64021975
there's something to be said about how foolish it is to be rational in the face of the irrational.

>>64012197 (OP)
They're a small step forward in the pro-gun legal battle, but in terms of personal self-defense use they're a toy I'd never buy. An AR with good ammo doesn't need FA to be effective.

>>64021975
>and they ended up compromising with a state registry + training classes thanks to the gun groups pushing back hard, not with normal measured discourse.
Cope
>At the end of the day it is infringement but it is also a win to not have guns banned outright.
Cuck.
You cunts deserve it with that type of attitude. Now fuck on off and keep your parasitic defeatism acceptance with you.

>>64021887
>>64021975
If you give an inch, they take a mile. There should be no negotiation about the god given right to defend ourselves from all enemies foreign and domestic.

>>64012197 (OP)
Needing to know the group's general opinion on a thing because you have none is peak woman brain, faggot.

>>64021665
basically an empty slogan, dummy

>>64012197 (OP)
If you genuinely would like to hear our opinion you could just read it instead of posting a strawpoll you fucking retard.

>>64023038
I already have my opinion, which is that they're very fun and, if all goes well, will be to MGs what braces were to SBRs
>>64023175
But I love democracy and voting. I have several fake identities and disguises just so I can vote multiple times on election day. I'm not even doing it for a particular candidate or party, just voting for sheer love of voting. Also roll

>>64021668
I have POF-5, but I might wait for Rare Sneed to come out with their trigger pack so I can keep the original look and won't have to fuck around with buying another lower.

>>64012197 (OP)
Who are the faggots saying it will lead to more gun control?
>noooo don’t enjoy a win
I hate them so much

>>64024785
There are two camps I can envision. Either they recognize that grabbers will see FRTs and use it as proof that all semiautos are easily convertible to machine guns therefore they should be b& or they're defeatist queers that are always upset at everything and act like anything short of hanging every ATF agent is a failure

>>64014919
>These things are functionally full auto. Something will change, for better or for worse.
ATF losing against rare breed means they stick around. They don’t meet the existing legal definition of full auto. I completely agree with you it’s functionally full auto. However if the legal definition is changed, then ex post facto kicks in, and existing FRTs and SSs will need a grandfather clause. Which then opens up the door to Hughes being challenged and possibly repealed. If Hughes goes down than the entirety of the NFA can be challenged and likely only grenades and stuff like that stay “restricted NFA”.

No guarantee that happens but it’s a real risk. And I think it’s a risk the government won’t take they’ll let SSs and FRTs exist.

>>64012197 (OP)
it literally is just a machine gun, and that's a good thing
just because the legal wording says its not doesnt mean its so, it is completely indistinguishable to me from full auto, atleast in the way it performs

>>64021662
ranges that rent out full auto guns charge like $40 for each mag you shoot, ontop of like a $100 rental fee (usually comes with 1 mag though)
this is nothing
hopefully reliable frt .22s with decent sized mags will come some day though, i believe hoffman might be working on something

>>64024421
They make a 3d printable trigger pack that looks just like the original one

>>64026301
Not a machine gun.

>>64019152
Not obsolete.

Super safeties are the least organic meme I have seen, nobody cared about forced reset mechanisms before hoffman got his fingers on them

>>64012197 (OP)
Based, fun, cool. Fuck the ATF
>>64014919
You can put a super safety in an MP5
>>64016273
Was going to say exactly this, lol

>>64027466
> nobody cared about forced reset mechanisms before hoffman got his fingers on them
Because no one could get one before Hoffman made his, you retard

>>64027504
bet you are the one pumping these threads and your answer to anyone who does not agree with you is to just call everyone a retard. you aren't clever or original, you also think FRTs are ackshually full auto and not a very short pull trigger. the mechanism isnt full auto. it is cool, but its not full auto because I can literally pull through the short reset and create a no fire condition. feel free to post about this on your discord/matrix/whatever and bring the brigade on.

>>64027546
I cannot feel the reset at all. Neither can anyone else I have talked to that has shot both f/an and super safety. Cope and seethe. You should offload that registered lower sooner rather than later, anon.

>>64027546
>>64027581
Also
>I can act like a retard and cause my weapon to malfunction
Is not a flex.

>>64023175
Give me Elizabeth/Jillian/Cassie/Gabrielle/Tyler/Alyssa/Trashy

>>64023175
let's go katana

>>64023175
For me? it's always going to be Elizabeth.

>>64026313
With a Bore Buddy you can use super safeties with those CMMG 22lr at conversion kits. Haven't tried it myself but big if true.

>>64027466
>forced reset mechanisms before hoffman got his fingers on them
Wait you’re telling me no one cared about super safeties until they were invented? What a fucking shock.

Why do faggots who clearly don’t own these come in threads and try to shit on them? Or are you fat feds with the laziest demoralization campaign?

>>64027546
So you can purposely misuse it and make it fail? That’s an interesting brag.

>>64028289
No, he's saying that nobody cared about FRTs until an open source solution compatible with existing hardware came to light, which is both untrue and a deeply stupid thing to call inorganic for reasons that are too obvious for me to explain.

>>64019531
Is this a selector type frt?
I REALLY want one that works like this and fits into a stock SP5 lower

>>64028379
Closest they have rn as a cross bolt SS that fits in a 3d printed lower that looks identical to the stock mp5 lower

>>64028379
Yeah selector based forced reset trigger. Same basic mechanism as super safety, but minus the cross bolt super safety.
I also waiting anxiously for MP5 super safety that just drops into a factory trigger pack housing and has a lever based actuator.

>>64027546
>call everyone a retard
If it quacks like a retarded duck, it's probably retarded.

>>64028289
It's just a single or limited few people that come raiding every time there's mention of a frt or ss. The rage baits are getting humorous. So far majority of the retardation has been been:
>Without telling me why it's not a gimmick, why isn't this a gimmick?
And then
>I'm ex military so I'm a leet operator and know everything, explain it more to me on why I should care
Like anybody gives a shit about a retard and them being retarded zogbot.

>>64021662
You're not wrong, even 12 bucks for 50 is still pretty rough when you're pissing hundreds of rounds away in short order, makes me wish someone could cook up an FRT 22. But you're wrong about it getting old, going through a course of fire in semi or with short bursts and dumping the rest of the mag when you're done never gets old. Running forward while yelling banzai and hosing your target with lead before driving a bayonet into it is also very enjoyable, great way to integrate cardio into target practice

>>64028689
I'm thinking about designing one myself but I'm worried about getting sued. Wat dou bros?

>>64029436
Call it Rare Greed and open source it.

>>64029436
Do it. They aren’t going to be successful in suits.

>>64029035
I’m not going to pretend that full auto is cheap but I think 1-2 mags every now and then isn’t bad. Just enough to be used to it or have some giggles now and then. Even if ammo was free it’s not like you’d practice 100% of the time with just full auto. 1 mag of 5.56 a month is $144 annually. Most people can stomach that.

Also there is a 3D printer attachment for a CMMG .22 conversion to make it work with super safeties. I’ve printed it but I still need to get a .22 bolt conversion. Can’t say if it works yet but I know people have done it.

seems like it'd be fun but you're like 100% going to prison if you used one in any situation

may as well have SLAYER written on your gun and wear a punisher mask

>>64029956
I'll even roll up in my poon slayer lifted truck. No regrats nigger.

>>64029956
i don't know shit btw, just a hunch. like the optics of this in a court room are probably pretty bad.

>>64029956
>Swap lower out before call 911
>Say nothing
>>64030031
What optics? You're fucked anyway, so why give a shit about hypotheticals.

>>64030028
>>64030062
scenario A
>he shot the home invader nogs 3 times with his Realtree™ hunting shotgun he bought from Dicks Sporting Good, your honor...

scenario B
>he shot the home invader nogs 60 times with his AR15 modified with an FRT device he bought from the internet, your honor...

which do you think is being declared innocent/justified and which do you think is going to prison/being made a political example of

>>64030200
Your honor, I rest my case this poster is retarded and doesn't have or shot a frt or ss.

>>64030200
scenario B on the news

>"he shot the black children 60 times with a deadly ASSAULT RIFLE. All of them were declared dead at the scene."

>random quote from a crime analyst "No sign of stopping. No signs of remorse for his actions."

>"He modified the assault rifle with an "FRT device" he purchased from the dark web, allowing the user to convert their AR15 *dramatic music* into a fully automatic killing machine..."

>random jew analyst chiming in "These devices are becoming a common sight in far-right circles...This was clearly a racially motivated, premeditated hate crime."

>>64030235
Based. Forgot the part super safety is SS for short. Going to go buy fifteen more so I can sprinkle them around the bodies like crack cocaine for a home defense situation to be ready for the absolutely most based tele broadcast to go with my mug shot of Neckbeardy McNeckbeardy-Face.

>>64030235
>your mugshot was photoshopped to make you look more like a chud

>>64029956
Shoo shop Moshe.

Post a single example of the weapon used in a self defense shooting ever resulting in a conviction. It literally has never mattered.

benelli m4 is objectively the coolest home defense gun

>>64030200
>scenario A
>your honor this man used a hunting shotgun when he had other perfectly suitable guns that are more tailored to self defense
>he views criminals as nothing more than animals to hunt and kill
>he’s clearly bloodthirsty and was not in any danger
See I can spin bullshit too. I can do this for any gun you mention. It’s not hard. But it is complete bullshit. Lethal force is justified or it’s not. Full stop.

I’ve heard this fuddlore for 20 years on various forums. There hasnt been a single example of “muh scary black gun” causing a conviction.

>>64030807
nah, i don't think a basic AR will do that, but will using it in full-semi-auto™? don't courts shit their pants if you shoot too many times because they see it as unnecessary or w/e?

idk why people think this is ridiculous.

>>64030794
probably has anon. i don't know where to find that info though. there's no way it has never been a thing.

>>64023175
Alex and Christy is the only ones worth considering. They are pretty (though Christy definitely has the edge), and have the least concerning charges. Robbery, burglary, Unauth motor veh use, and drug possession/use/mfg is intolerable. If one of them had ONLY a DUI, I might consider it. DUI offenders are reckless scum and borderline murderous, but I've seen DUI offenders who have actually reformed and genuinely great people.

Christy's only downside is that she has that psychopath look.

Tonya would be worth considering if not for the duck face. She looks proud of being totally irresponsible.

>>64023175
rolling for my white trash queen Gabrielle

>>64031085
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
CHECK EM

>>64031085
>52-54
>rape
>incest
How is this even enforceable?

>>64012197 (OP)
Ok, Atrius has _finally_ shipped.me 2. Now what, drop in or dremel? I just want go brrrt.

>>64023175
In UK, half these bitches would have septum piercings. HALF.

>>64030994
> probably has anon. i don't know where to find that info though. there's no way it has never been a thing.
Then prove it you pussy. I don’t know where to find all the cocks you’ve sucked. But there’s no way you’ve never sucked a bunch of cocks.

Now with the insults out of the way, let’s be logical. What is the charge that would be added if I have an AR with “nigger killer 9000” engraved on the dust cover and I turned Jamal into Swiss cheese with a burst from a SS vs 3 quick shots in semi auto from a normal AR? Seriously, what legally is different? Tell me.

The answer is there isn’t. There is justifiable lethal force or there isn’t. It’s no different than saying using 9mm is fine but you better not shoot them with a .500 S&W. Or .308 is ok but god forbid you get attacked while cleaning your M82 and let loose with a couple rounds of .50, that’ll send you to jail. See how ridiculous that sounds? Like I said, I and many others have heard this myth for 20+ years. There isn’t a single case to back it up.

nice, thanks for deleting my post mods

>>64031085
>>64031093
You lucky man

>>64023175
I’m Rolan liek dolan
Hope I get the best

>>64031760
nah not even going to read your post if you're just going to insult me out of nowhere like a faggot sperg

>>64031760
It's not about extra charges, it's about what the prosecution can use to smear you as much as possible

>>64032845
>it's about what the prosecution can use to smear you as much as possible
which is irrelevant because you cannot convict someone of doing nothing wrong. Americans have these things called "rights". If some crackhead breaks into your house/trespasses on your property and threatens your life/your family he forfeits his own right to live. Prosecutors can cope and sneed but nobody who has lawfully defended themselves has every been convicted. You cant find examples because there aren't any.

I think they'll become politicized like high capacity magazines, with bans happening at the state level.
>>64023175
Fuck it, here I roll again.

>>64031203
In the US, too. That roll chart is old enough to post on 4chan.

>>64012197 (OP)
Most combat vets I interview say they keep semi on. Even machine gunners tell the real skill comes out of people who make each shot count, and use little instead of more.

Having fired machine guns. Being a vet. It's a matter of cash money for bullets. I don't have enough at all to be blowing through rounds like that. I guess I like the option.

Bottom-line. I'm buying an Trijicon optic first.

I don't see it as a bad purchase, and I see it worth its resale. Anything you can quick sell at 50% or more of the value of the purchase price is always a head turner.

Most thing people buy lose 90% of the purchase value.

>>64032827
>Now with the insults out of the way, let’s be logical.
Well it’s clear you didn’t read. It’s also clear you’re an intellectual lightweight because I’m trying to have a real conversation and you’re either refusing to engage because you know your stance is wrong and you won’t change your views, or you can’t handle mild bants.

>>64032845
>Seriously, what legally is different? Tell me.
Smearing isn’t a legal charge. Answer this question. Or admit it doesn’t matter what gun you use, because it doesn’t.

>>64032929
>be self proclaimed vet
>have retarded milquetoast opinion
shocking. >>64032929
>Most thing people buy lose 90% of the purchase value.
jokes on your, 90% of the things I buy are guns

>>64032929
>Most combat vets I interview
They're fucking tards and so are you. There's a reason the militaries worldwide keep buying auto guns, and that is to shoot them that way.

>>64032938
There's more that goes into a conviction than just the charges and regardless of the circumstances you're always going to be initally charged with homicide at least before they can find you acted in self defense. Remember that you have 12 retards to decide your fate, 1 person doing everything in his power to put you behind bars, and 1 guy hopefully trying his best to prevent that. Anything which could make the average juror think you did something abnormal or excessive is something worth considering. Granted IDGAF, I keep my SS AR9 handy in case of break ins because if I'm using lethal force I'm not going with half-measures. Frankly it might look worse in court if I use my O/U because then the case could be made that I wasn't in active fear of my life if I grabbed the worst gun I have to kill an invader

>>64032989
>Frankly it might look worse in court if I use my O/U because then the case could be made that I wasn't in active fear of my life if I grabbed the worst gun I have to kill an invader
Agreed and I made the same comment early when someone was talking about using a duck gun.

Just show me one case ever where this mattered. Just one. Not going after you specifically but it seems like this
>nooooo don’t use or you’ll go to prison
Is either an increasing common fuddlore opinion being spread again which I hate, or a lazy demoralization op to discourage psuedo full auto, which I also hate.

It’s no different than the lazy
>noooo don’t shoot the poor nigger attacking you. You’ll still go to prison because muh liberal DA
Which also has no basis in reality. They didn’t flim flam the zim zam. You’ll be fine shooting dontravious even if it cuts his future career as NASA short

>>64032941
You're probably a bedroom dwelling safe queen to be naïve enough to discredit the opinion of members of the armed forces. You remind me of the ashiest meme of the all knowing fat loser.

>>64032965

Can you possibly make more mentally retarded and irrelevant arguments? Show me one example of "millionaires" in combat situations. Kid you'd piss you panties in combat.

>>64033016
Are you the same “vet” saying these and full auto were “gimmicks” last thread? You seem just as retarded.

>>64033012
The case most people will point to is the one of Harold Fish. I'm certain you're aware of it, yes? If not, long and short of it
>dude goes hiking with 10mm Kimber
>sees some guy seemingly passed out, surrounded by dogs
>calls out to guy, no response
>steps closer
>dogs rush towards him, encircling him
>shoots the ground to scare them
>guy gets up, demanding he doesn't shoot his dogs
>Fish tells him to calm down, when does that ever work?
>Guy has a tardfit and rushes Fish, allegedly punching the air as he ran at him
>gets shot, once through the hand
During the court case the prosecution pointed out his use of a 10mm pistol and explicitly painted it as an excessively powerful weapon. Now as stated above there are other odd events like the warning shot (which IIRC is legal nowhere, if you're shooting it better be ti kill something that's trying to kill you) and the bullet through the hand. Fish was found guilty of second degree murder and served 3 years before getting a retrial that found him not guilty. Did Fish's pistol have any relevance to the jury's decision? Without asking them directly there's no way to tell

>>64034652
the person you're replying to is a jew or puppet trying to get conservative males in trouble. simple as.

if you only shoot people who are for-real trying to kill you then you dont have to worry about the court case. retards who let the melanin take over and kill over slights against their honor are the ones who get charged.

>>64034652
You left out the part where the whole prosecution was maliciously cooked from the beginning with the assistance of the judge who disallowed key evidence that would have exonerated the defendant(hence the appeal), also the expert testimony they allowed which claimed that the gunshot wounds through the guys hand indicated that his hands were raised in surrender instead of in a fist or striking motion. You can go ahead and fear monger by leaving that out and begging the question instead but any even handed look at the fish case leaves you with the take away that there's nothing you can do to protect yourself from a judge who wants to see you in jail and the caliber didn't really matter.

>>64034732
>there's nothing you can do to protect yourself from a judge who wants to see you in jail

nice victim complex. all you have to do to not go to prison is to be cognizant of your surroundings and to not escalate shit.

>>64034735
>be cognizant of your surroundings and to not escalate shit.
Yea, because self defense shootings always happen by the shooter escalating things? I don't think I have a victim complex but you've definitely got a retard complex

>>64034732
Man I don't have the memory of an elephant, I'm just trying to recount a story as best I can. Moreover even with that tale my takeaway isn't the 10mm but the shot through the hand that made it look like he was surrendering. I was merely presenting the only case I can remember where that was remotely relevant, just as you asked. Either way you're correct, the court will nail you one way or another if the judge wants you in jail so stop worrying about what you're gonna shoot a nog with

I used full auto M4s in the army, and ive got a buddy with a super safety AR, it doesnt feel quite as nice to use, but its pretty damn close, blows bump stocks out of the water for sure. If i had an AR id definitely pick one up, my AR muscle memory is entirely around having full auto. If something was more than like 50m away, a little two or three round burst always performed better than one semi auto shot, except at the range. It’s basically just slightly increased, hip probability and terminal effect at no cost other than ammo, which is always cheaper than letting whatever youre shooting at live. I dont know why any civvie would be upset about them existing aside from being mad they cant have real full giggle, which is fair, but no reason to kneecap yourself.

>>64034757
pretty much every self-defense shooting that becomes a scandal on the news is the result of the defendee acting stupidly.

>>64034652
I love when retards bring up the Fish case and completely leave out the key facts. The 10mm had nothing to do with it. It was the judge not allowing key evidence for Fish's defense while allowing speculation from the prosecution that resulted in the prosecutor later losing his license
>judge did allow speculation about Fish being a ruthless killer because who else carries guns
>judge allowed a forensic report from the prosecution that suggested the attacker was in a "defensive position" (he had his hands raised in front of him IIRC)
>judge wouldn't allow a similar forensic report from the defense that suggested the attackers arms were raised because he was attacking Fish (duh)
>jury did not get proper instructions on "unlawful physical force"
>case was won on appeal and allowed all the evidence that would have initially helped Fish
>DA lost his license to practice law over the case

From the appeals court he won in
> the appellate court ruled that the jury was not instructed properly as to what constitutes "unlawful physical force." The court also decided the jury should have heard evidence that Kuenzli was known to act violently when confronted about dogs in his care.

Please explain how if he had a .45 1911 instead of a 10mm the situation turns out any different. Or a .38 j frame. Or whatever gun tickles your fancy.

>>64034669
>the guy advocating for self defense with the best tool available is a jew
>the guy saying you won't kill in trouble for killing a nigger while they are nogging is a jew
What lazy ass reverse psychology are you trying schlomo?

Post guns. Bet you wont.

>>64034790
I'm the anon that asked for it. And even with your "best applicable case" you even admit it doesn't matter.
>Moreover even with that tale my takeaway isn't the 10mm but the shot through the hand that made it look like he was surrendering.
Exactly. There was half a dozen things that the judge fucked Fish with. The caliber wasn't one of them.

>>64023175
>illegal twerk

>>64014919
I'll be working on one for the p90, a few ww2 era subguns, and maybe a few others
I love SMGs so much

>>64012197 (OP)
Awesome and I want one, but not something that would be good for me to have in a range toy simply due to ammo costs. Would much rather see the NFA die entirely and enjoy a proper select fire rifle with full auto or burst on tap.

>>64032890
>>64032938
He's right. Charges aren't the issue so much as the prosecution convincing the jury it wasn't self defense, you were totally just waiting for an excuse to murder some poor boy. He was just about to turn his life around wif dat skullaship money. The jury is 12 random normies off the street who typically don't know jack shit about the law and you better bet your ass the prosecution could still at least try for voluntary manslaughter or something like 2nd degree murder even if it won't stick. When it comes down to it a jury can get you hung because you had a bad aura or some bullshit like that. You have edgy shit engraved on your gun can you guess what the average juror is going to think about that when the prosecutor starts talking about it full of sound and fury? It's the courtroom version of the old "fool the cop, not the dog" trick. Also why a good lawyer that won't take that BS is worth every penny.

No not every prosecutor is going to try to fuck you over, but plenty out there would undoubtedly give it a shot even if it's not typically successful. Always ALWAYS expect a person whose entire job is to ruin your life to be a piece of shit about it. Your HD gun being relatively plain and the ammo used being the same shit the cops use is just crossing your "t"s and dotting your "i"s. Give the asshole trying to send you to prison as little ammo as you can as a general rule. No I'm not a lawyer but this was explicitly stated by a sheriff who was running a carry permit course I took. He made a point of going over it repeatedly.