What are your thoughts on the scout rifle concept? I never understood why people are always hung up on the weight needing to be under a certain limit

>>64091267 (OP)
Unironically a PSA 11.5 AR is better in every way

>>64091287
I am not a PSA hater, I just picked up a lower of theirs yesterday. Why do you make such a claim?

>>64091291
>More powerful
>Longer range
>Cheaper
>Less gay
>Hated by fudds
Literally no downside

>>64091297
.223 is more powerful and has a longer range than 308?

>>64091287
To be completely honest a 16in or longer AR would be a perfectly servicible scout rifle if you aren't worried about big game, works great for eastoids

>>64091267 (OP)
>What are your thoughts on the scout rifle concept?
It's a super specialized niche that most people misunderstand.

>I never understood why people are always hung up on the weight needing to be under a certain limit
The rifle was meant to be hand-carried while walking dozens of miles a day in Africa.

>>64091291
Stop feeding the trolls you idiot

>>64091310
A modern "scout rifle" would be an AR-10 with a magnified red dot.
>lightweight
>full power .30 cal
>can be rapidly reloaded
>suitable for hunting or fighting

>>64091309
Yes that's why the military uses it
>>64091326
>AR10
>lightweight
>Implying 30 cal means power
>Implying 556 doesn't do the same thing cheaper

>>64091333
>>Implying 30 cal means power
>>Implying 556 doesn't do the same thing cheaper
If you want to argue, argue with Cooper. Those were his requirements, not mine. Cooper wanted the rifle to be capable of taking large game ethically, which is going to rule out 223.

>>64091338
>Muh big game
>Not shooting them in the head

>>64091267 (OP)
>What are your thoughts on the scout rifle concept?
"It's a pistol shooters idea of a rifle"

I can't remember who said this but it's accurate. The kind of rifle that a scout or hunter would actually use is your typical hunting rifle with a standard optic. The scout scope itself is silly now that you can put a dot on top of a scope and have the best of both worlds.

>>64091344
Brainstem is a very tiny target that is difficult to hit. It's very common for idiot hunters to fuck up headshots by shooting too far forward and hitting sinus cavity or frontal lobe instead of important parts of the brain.

>>64091326
Will be >10lbs loaded.

>>64091365
I'm sure it could be done in the 7-8lb range Cooper wanted. Remember that large ammo capacity is not on the requirement list. A 5-round mag would do.

>>64091344
>t. neverhunted

>>64091380
It could with an SFAR but the other component Cooper wanted was ban state legal, so no semi-auto. If you just put a dot on top of a 10x on a standard mountain hunting rifle like a Tikka lite it achieves the snapshot capability Cooper wanted.

acogs are superior and no company makes a quality scout scope

>>64091326
>>64091380
>5rds
>Suitible for hunting or fighting
>>64091359
>>64091393
Ok then how do you kill animals mr hunter

>>64091404
why are you pepe avatarfagging?

>>64091267 (OP)
to stop this fag from highjacking the thread, I like the scout rifle for just something nice to hunt in the woods with, it has drawbacks aside from the fact that most people would be better off with the extra of an AR-10. Alot of what Cooper taught could be applied outside of the scout rifle ideas but when applied to a well setup scout rifle they are pretty effective bolt action wise

>>64091267 (OP)
Scout rifle? Fuck Jeff Cooper. Winchester model 70 lightweight with a 22 inch barrel in 270 Winchester with a 2 1/2x scope with a post reticle.

>>64091267 (OP)
People act like scout rifles are this arcane category of guns that nothing fits into, but it's literally just a lightweight bolt action with iron sights and a low power optic

>>64091481
>it has drawbacks aside
no gun is perfect for everything

>>64091630
>no gun is perfect for everything
trvth

>>64091267 (OP)
What model Ruger is that again? Not only just because cool but I think I might need that front sight for a project (probably another unobtanium part having knowledge from past searches for ruger parts).

>>64094966
ruger gunsite scout i believe

>>64091267 (OP)
While Cooper was writing about how great his scout rifle was, the top spots at Gunsight classes were being dominated by shooters with ARs and red dots. Like most people, Jeff had a hard time changing his opinions as he got older.

His rule of thumb about rifle weights was geared around people walking long distances with heavy loads (what some would call scouts) and is absolutely correct: if you cannot hold it out at arm’s length without strain for a minute, the rifle is too heavy or you are too weak. Making the rifle lighter is a lot cheaper and easier but either will work.
>>64091287
You’re shitposting, but you’re almost entirely right. A scout rifle (as defined by cooper) is going to hit harder.

>>64091267 (OP)
Very tempted to turn picrel into a scout gun but I'm having trouble find scout-style scope mount for it that doesn't negate clip loading. Idk, maybe since it's already a sporter I should just have a gunsmith tap it for a scout-mount. What do you fags think?

>>64096355
Reliability is king when you only have one rifle for all tasks in adverse conditions. You can use abuse and neglect a bolt action for years and a good one will still function flawlessly.

>>64096261
ty

>>64091267 (OP)
I don't give a shit if it's practical. I just want to see autist builds. Please?

>>64091326
I read a bunch on the scout rifle a while ago. This was my conclusion and that's what I bought. I'd still like a lighter bolt-action for hunting but the point is a do-all rifle.
>>64091365
She's 11lbs 3oz configured for elk. A little heavy for long range hunting but perfect for every other task.

I think the idea was already an anachronistic romanticization of the past when Cooper first started thinking about it.

>>64097115
I think we all miss Bechuanaland a little bit.
Cooper's insights are definitely from a world past but are very useful. The Scout Rifle is a perfect concept for building a ranch rifle around, for instance. It's not a combat weapon, but can be in a pinch.

>>64091267 (OP)
I'm interested because I expect semi-autos to be banned in europe and the scout rifle is basically the only attempt at a bolt action combat rifle.

>>64096417
I’d argue that this is largely true for a good autoloader as well. Remember, Cooper’s problem with the M1 (which he loved, surprise surprise) as a scout rifle was that it was too heavy, not that it was semiautomatic. Likewise, his problem with the AR-15 was that the cartridge was underpowered, not that it wasn’t reliable enough.

He was a man of his era, but he never left that era…even after the rest of the world had. His writing was usually entertaining and sometimes informative, but it was already decades out of date by the nineties.

>>64100029
Cooper was very clear on what and was not a scout rifle. There is no guesswork. Even in his day people tried to take liberties and he set them straight. As he would today. A Scout rifle is a bolt action.
You dont have to agree that its the best choice for you. But Cooper came up with and defined the scout rifle. Its a bolt

>>64100062
You need to work on your reading comprehension. He says that user friendliness is most important, and modern semis are pretty damn retard proof. He even suggests that a single shot makes a good scout rifle. He is not married to the idea of it needing to be a bolt-action.

>>64100093
Complexity is the issue. The rifle is meant for a single man outing in back country conditions. Single shots and blot actions are low maintenance. Small number of parts. Robust. Friendly.
The reason you dont take an ar into the bush by yourself on a month long excursion is exactly the reason Cooper didn't recommend it. Or any other semi.
Just because you want the scout rifle to be something doesn't make it so.
Its funny how ass hurt you got when Cooper himself told you how wrong you are.

>>64091267 (OP)
>What are your thoughts on the scout rifle concept?
A neat concept, but not really needed IRL, with the current day progress in optics. Still I'd buy one.
>why people are always hung up on the weight needing to be under a certain limit
You gotta have a light rifle to be able to carry more gear and ammo, supposedly. Or just to have easiest gear set.
On the other side, Fidel Castro and his merry men had ordinary hunting rifles of their time and were doing alright before they got more men and army surplus guns. And today it's not very probable for guys armed as the deer hunters on the trip to be anything more than a local nuisance
>>64091404
>Ok then how do you kill animals mr hunter
Most working way is to hit the heart and/or lungs. Brain shots are tricky because of the brain size and the head moving, not to mention that you may ruin the trophy by cracking the skull.
The only game species that are shot in the head on regular basis are elephants and maybe crocodiles
>>64091496
And now you've invented a "Professional's rifle" by Finn Aagaard or basically any pre-WWII scoped rifle in America.

>>64100479
>easiest
Lightest, silly me typing late at night

>>64091333
>military uses good quality products and the procurement process totally results in the best weapons; like you know: side arms, etc;. being picked.
Big brain moment.

>>64100314
You managed to draw an astonishing amount of meaning out of the phrase, "…too bulky and too complex…". I interpreted him to mean exactly what he said: back in 2002, he thought the bolt action most suitable, that a single shot might work, and that he thought autoloaders too bulky and complex. (He also said elsewhere on occasion that they were too heavy, which was another thing that he liked about single shots.)

However, he was notoriously stubborn and was basically incapable of changing his opinions. That thing that I said earlier about AR’s dominating his classes? I’m not imagining it, and I’m not the only one that saw it. Plenty of others have discussed this publicly but you never saw Cooper write about it because his response to evidence that called his theories into question was to ignore it.

He was stubborn, he got some things wrong, and sometimes he made shit up. He was human, in other words.

>>64091267 (OP)
i think theyre neat but i dont like long eye relief scopes

>>64100314
NTA and I even like the scout but there is a white dude in Africa in the middle of fucking nowhere with like ~5-8 Africans with a bunch of old M1 Garands and M16s (surplus) who fixes them up with what he has. I remember him asking about the castle nut (?) or some other fastener and what the equivalent would be in a hardware store. IIRC he actually got it working fine, just looked silly. Can't remember his name ATM. He had limited satellite internet before Starlink and his energy was either via generator or a solar panel. He works fighting poachers way far out in the middle of nowhere and I want to say they only have enough ammo to give each guy like 10-20rds. Not to say M16/M4/AR15 style rifles are ideal for those conditions but they're not exactly the worst choice either.

>>64102443
Lots of mental gymnastics to try and shoehorn your choice into a label it does not fit in.
Its not about how one can keep something running with bailing twine and scrap parts. Its about not having to do that. Bolts and single shots can run on zero maintenance whatsoever even in the harshest conditions. Thats the point. The one you fail to be grasping.
You want to wander around pretending your ar is a Cooper scout go ahead. Those of us who can read know you are a fucking idiot.

>>64102443
>>he was incapable of changing his opinion
The fucking guy created the scout rifle and defined what it was.
You are the one to stubborn to understand it was his, not your parameters that make a scout a scout.

>>64102693
nogunz larper lmao

>>64102703
Fat faggot with little brown kids you made while drunk pretending a pussy was a man's asshole

>>64091496
>Winchester model 70 lightweight with a 22 inch barrel in 270 Winchester with a 2 1/2x scope with a post reticle.
DANGEROUSLY BASED.

>>64102693
>misunderstands every point
>grammatically correct English
You’re probably not esl, which means you’re either retarded or hopelessly autistic. In either case you should post one of your guns.
>you won’t, and we both know why

>>64102693
>>64103214
Fuck, almost forgot…I never claimed that the AR would make a good scout. I merely mentioned that it outperformed the Steyrs on the courses meant to validate the scout concept, as designed and run by the man that created the scout concept. In other words…
>cooper made up a game for scout rifles to dominate
>ar’s dominated instead
As I said earlier, it was an outdated concept from its inception, although most of the individual ideas have some merit. It here was nothing like it in 1955, which is about the time Cooper lost the ability to change his opinion in response to new things.

>>64103258
Are you STILL asshurt and slinging word salad because I posted Coopers own words showing you were wrong? Lol.
I was probably the first one this thread to call Cooper a bit of a clown, but you made a bigger ass out of yourself in one thread than he did his whole life l.
Scout rifle is bolt action (exceptions for things like single shots that are simplistic and both lighten and shorten the oal)
Scout rifle is 7lb or lighter with optic. Cooper said optic was optional as he himself used iron only on scout one at some points.
Scout has a max 19" barrel 39" oal or less
Scout must be able to neutralize 1000lb threats. He chose 308.
Scout must be ghost ring, optional forward mounted low power optic. Must be able to shoot with both eyes open as a scout is alone
Scout has quick loop sling. Bypod acceptable if it can make weight.
Scout must shoot 2moa
The fucking thing is meant to be a worldwide hunting rifle that can double as sd/dg do anything rifle.
The entire basis of the concept is light, low maintenance, hard use reliable.
Fucking autoloaders are absolutely none of those. Not to mention the fucking m4 is already overweight with just a god dam magazine and sling for fucks sakes.
You are a moron.

>>64103608
>all that text that no one will read
You could have saved a whole lot of typing by just saying no, you won’t be posting a pic of your gun.
>and we s both still know why, don’t we?
Seethe more nogunz. I will continue to ridicule both you and Cooper. You know that he lied about shooting those Japanese soldiers in his biography, right?

>>64104224
Your autoloader will never be a scout rifle.
>>pic of your gun
Will a pick of one somehow invalidate your claims more than the facts I cock slapped you with already did. No. The answer is no.
>>cooper did this.
>>cooper didn't do that
Who fucking cares the guy was the prototype for modern guntube faggots.
Still his idea. Still his definition. You are still wrong.
Im the fucking guy who said fuck cooper, Winchester model 70 lightweight, 22" barrel in 270 Winchester with a 2 1/2x scope with a post reticle. Jack O'Connor knew his shit. I don't subscribe to Coopers ideals or definitions.
Im also not some little spineless faggot that thinks I need to hijack his brand to apply it to my preferred object to validate my choices. I choose Jack's sheep/deer rifle for the same activities Cooper created the scout rifle concept.

>>64091267 (OP)
>hung up on the weight needing to be under a certain limit
Lightweight is critically important. You are losing semiauto and mag size in exchange for a larger caliber and lightweight weapon.

If it isn't lightweight then just carry an AR10.

nazis already figured out the scout rifle concept prior to cooper

>>64104475
Goddamn you’re spun up now. Not sure where O’Connor came from but it’s entertaining, so keep it up I guess.

That’s a no on the gun pic then? Not even a BB gun? Come on anon, your parents at least bought you an air soft gun or something. Post what you have for our amusement.

>>64105349
And it was bad back then. Much worse than it is today.
>>64091496
Mauser 98, .30-06, 4x or 6x, post or simple crosshair. And a double set trigger, set triggers are a must.

>>64096400
its milsurp slop do what you want no one cares about it being sporterized except 450 lb no guns.

>>64091333
But when I read the TM for a M4 it says the max effective range is 600 meters while the M110A1 says it's 800 meters. Since 800 > 600 I don't think 5.56 is longer range

>>64096400
Ive thought if, basically get a full length rail and cut out a portion of it just big enough to accommodate a clip

>>64105349
Why is are two triggers?

>>64105349
That’s one of Cooper’s stated inspirations. Another iirc was McBride’s description of a lightweight Mauser spotter that he captured during WWI. It’s been a number of years since I’ve read any of his shit but I remember him being good about giving credit where it’s due.
>as long as it supported his existing opinions anyway

>>64107113

>>64091401
Leupold does (did?) but I basically never see them for sale

My first attempt at a custom scout rifle optimized for my purposes. Fixed power 6x, .308 1:9 twist with qd suppressor brake. Receiver is an ARC mauser. Ended up not really what I wanted due to issues with the smith jerking me around for a year. It still works, but the barrel is all wrong. Chassis is a place holder stolen from my bench rifle until the manners comes in. A rebarrel will being it much closer to the intended product

>>64091401
Acogs are truly great but they have drawbacks in fov and eyebox that you don't really need to make for a hunting rifle

>>64107564
The eotech 3-9 fixes this, greater magnification & better eyebox at the same weight

>>64107629
That's rad I'll have to check it out. I've always preferred fixed power for these kinds of things because of weight and ruggedness, but no one really makes fixed power anymore (other than acog of course)

>>64107564
acogs have good field of view and eyebox what are you talking about, their drawback is eye relief

>>64107553
>builds 8 lb target rifle
>"no gaiz its a scout rifle look it’s bolt action

Lul.

>>64107553
>This is what /arg/faggots think a good bolt action looks like

>>64107553
i hate chassis bolt actions so much

>>64091267 (OP)
scout rifles are cool. and fun (to build). but they come with limitations.
i build three out of a rossi puma, m44 nagant and k98, scoped using pica rails mounted instead of the backsight leaf. thats ok for some shots but works itself lose after a while. fixed bore mounts dont have that issue.
but the biggest problem for me is: it wont get you much more than 2x magnification, the tiny eyebox of a 4x scout scope makes it barely usable.
cooper had no reasonable priced lpvo or 2-7 or 3-9 at hand during the 80s with a see through mount for the irons. so he came up with the scout rifle concept.
but today every hunting rifle with irons and a variable scope beats a scout in every field.
exeot cool factor maybe.

>>64112007
It's not quite 8lbs, but like I said it isn't at all what I wanted originally. It's just what I ended up getting for bullshit reasons. Also does your mom know you're a homosexual

>>64112218
I liked them at first but their advantages are overshadowed now by all the high end ones. They're supposed to be minimalist and cheap to make, but you're spending more on a krg whiskey than some mcmillans. They're mostly optimized for prone or bench shooting with the vertical or near vertical pistol grip, but those are not very usable in any other position. A "normal" stock from some place like manners is going to weigh less and be more versatile

>>64113294
> not quite 8lbs
Sorry, I should have been more specific. 8 lbs unloaded, ~10 lbs all up. Doesn’t look like a bad rifle to be honest but since you’re in a scout rifle thread and you’re posting a rifle that moot nearly every criterion of a scout rifle wrong, expect to be flipped a little shit.
> does your mom know you're a homosexual
Your mom knows that I’m not.

>>64113314
It's 7.8 loaded

>>64112198
Did you not read the post? It's just something i had from a different rifle i bought a different stock for. I'm going to rebarrel and get a nice manners for it, since I much prefer rifle grip to pistol

>>64091267 (OP)
>I never understood why people are always hung up on the weight
You've never hunted innamountains.

>>64094966
Call up Ruger, they might sell you one.

>>64113286
>cooper had no reasonable priced lpvo or 2-7 or 3-9 at hand during the 80s with a see through mount for the irons.
I swear I have a scope he could've used. I was going to say "[Bushnell scope I can't find] plus Weaver See-Thru rings?" but I can't find it and now I'm pissed. I did, however, find a Burris 1.5-4x (IIRC?) that is a pistol scope with a retardedly long eye relief, like mount it on an 8" revolver barrel in the middle and you might be able to use it at full arm extension. Kinda fitting considering where he ended up with the project. I doubt the theoretical (non-long eye relief) scope I may or may not have even bought was anything past like 1.5x-6 or 2.5-6x though. I did find a fixed 2.5x Bushnell though.

>>64114861
I always forget about that option lol. I just hope they don't want me to have a Ruger gunsite scout to sell me one.

>>64114906
the tiny eyebox of scout/long eye relief scopes kills it for me. takes too long to get on target.
x2,5 can be fast, but im faster on target with irons. takes even longer with a x4 scout scope.

every middle european mountain hunting rifle from the 1940s on, the Stutzen or Bergstutzen, fills most of coopers demands:
light, powerful 8mm/7mm round, irons, short, x4-x6 scope.

>>64091267 (OP)
Boomer capeshit. Fuck ya muddah.