Thread 64104698

Wait, so its literally just a better AR15?

>a better AR15?
No such thing.

>>64104698 (OP)
yeah, they're just upgraded CR6940s

Holy shit defensereview is still a thing? Is this 2006?

>>64104698 (OP)
>posts an ar15
>durr this is better than an ar15

dear god can something please usurp the AR platform already? shit is so boring

>>64104698 (OP)
>Short stroke gas piston
>Not DI
>Better

Nah.

>>64105652
/thread

>>64105618
We don’t deserve it. We are all retarded and don’t know a good thing when we see it. Jim Sullivan spent his life working on guns that are comprehensive improvements over not just AR15 but all extant assault rifles, and nobody (militaries) showed any interest. He gave us quad stack mags and improved BCGs and nobody saw the value in it, so surefire had them discontinued. We deserve to suffer with archaic guns until the end of time.

>>64105652
>Not DI
So less prone to jams and better in cold weather? Sounds great.

>>64105699
Go rewatch the mud tests Inrange did and the cold weather tests GarandThumb did and unretard yourself. Eugene Stoner was a true engineer.

>>64105699
Lick that bolt carrier tilt

>>64104698 (OP)
The 6940 series is peak aesthetic

>>64105693
The improved bcg is back, at least primary arms has an order of them right now.
They're fucking expensive, but I'm seriously considering buying one.

>>64105618
>can something please usurp the AR platform already?
This won't happen until we start getting man-portable laser and microwave weaponry. And even then I highly suspect that we'll eventually start to see AR-derived designs sooner or later once infantry-level laser weapons become a thing

>>64105751
>the improved BCG is back
Ermagurd, you’re right, it does seem to be back. Maybe they’ll sell better now that everyone has pseudo full-auto triggers

>>64105756
Man has been using physical projectile weapons for 25,000 years and we will be using physical projectile weapons 25,000 years from now.
Energy weapons are great and all but when you need something smashed to pieces, right this moment, you launch a hard piece of metal at a very high speed at it.

>>64105652
>not DI
The 901 is DI tho.

>>64105693
>>64105751
>$450
Yeah no I'll just buy three Toolcraft nitrided bcgs for the same price, throw them away after the first rebuild breaks, and not give a fuck.

>>64105899
Fuckin’ right. Throwing a rock at some faggot is still the best, most cutting-edge way of killing, and it will be until the end of time. Grug is eternal.

>>64105909
The only BCG which justifies a $450 price tag is the OBC. Longer stroke, lower pressure upon action opening, heavier and slower, anti-bounce weight inside, and ~550rpm cyclic rate. If you couple this with quad stack mags and a heavy barrel, you have a <9lb light machine gun

>>64105652
>>64105659
>>64105699
>>64105715
you can literally see the gas tube of the DI action

>>64105928
>The only BCG which justifies a $450 price tag is the OBC
But bill always puts his bcgs for under $250 every other holiday

>>64105652
Does /k/ like DI more than pistons? Why?

>>64105996
Yes. Because it's better.

>>64105996
Kraut spacemagic is short stroke so it's good enough for me.

>>64105996
Piston parts rock on their axes and wears the bolt housing area on top and bottom. It's also not more reliable see the torture test videos. It has more moving parts thus more failure to induce. It's more expensive.
It's a contraption that exists because of human stupidity and fuddlore.
>DI shits where it eats!
>BCG wearout failure!
Replace your bcg extractor/ejector at 5-6k rounds, your bolt and gas rings at 10k, and a DI bcg will last 20k rounds. It's that simple, piss easy, doesn't cause ovoid wear of the chamber, and the DI system's inherent function is impressively capable of functioning when packed with mud or frozen over.

>>64105652

>t. doesn't know SHIT about guns

>>64106188
Thanks for the detailed answer.
I just bought a DI because i value simplicity, cheapness and low weight, so i was already on that side, but everyone is giving me shit about it on my range.
Double thanks for the maintenance schedule. I think i'll have a little notepad in my safe where i write an X every time i shoot about a 1000 through my rifle, that way i can be on schedule with replacement parts.

>>64106313
>everyone is giving me shit about it on my range
Maybe they just prefer having worse recoil impulse and more parts to replace when they fail.

>>64105996
Because external pistol ARs suck balls and it's literally propaganda from like the 2000s that it's in any way better than DI/internal piston ARs. The impetus for the 416 was literally btfo'd by a tiny spring change on the M4's extractor which made it mog the entire project from HK. External piston is only theoretically better under extreme cold conditions where the gun may be frozen solid and the violence of the action can get everything moving again, but this is a niche case and with the development of new cold weather lube is increasingly a meme. DI is lighter and works better under muddy conditions, and seeing as categorically any place that can be frozen can also have mud, it is more applicable than an external piston AR

>>64106313
Glad to hear that anon, sorry everyone at your range is a retarded fudd. You are welcome to argue with them but I find letting them sit in their retardation is more fun. Just flex on them by having a good normal AR that is light and shoots well

>>64106758
What is permafrost?

>>64106784
its like frost, but permanent

>>64105711
>Eugene Stoner was a true engineer
Yep, thats why he too landed on the short stroke system

>>64105900
I'm really tempted to buy the old monolithic quadrail version for fuddbroker prices since Czolt still hasn't brought it back yet.
>>64105996
/k/ will always gravitate toward the poorfag option but pistons are better for suppressed SBRs, AKA what everyone is using now. Fifteen years ago when 16"-14.5" ARs were the gold standard then yeah pistons were kinda pointless. The thing is now that we have better low-backpressure silencer technology, the shortcomings of DI are disappearing.

>>64105973
yep, you're right, I'm fucking retarded

>>64106908
No he moved to short stroke because he didn’t actually own his patents on the ar10/15 gas system. When they were sold he had to work out something different. It wasn’t until Stoner reached KAC that he was finally able to work on his original design again and fix the flaws that had been bugging him for near on four decades but of course KAC holds the patents for those revisions so everybody with a non-KAC AR still has to live with squared lugs that shear off while Eugene rolls in his grave.

>>64105618
The AUG already exists

>>64107175
LMT also fixed the problem, without removing compatibility with standard bolts.

>>64108936
They didn’t entirely and neither did Surefire. None of them can. Stoner’s revised bolt has way stronger lugs than any variation of his previous design can hope to have. The original design is just fundamentally flawed. Sullivan removing the lug opposite the extractor to balance the stress is clever but the individual strength of the remaining 6 lugs isn’t changed. The ideal BCG would merge Stoner and Sullivan’s design changes as though they were working together again. 6 lugs, each one reinforced, plus all the changes to the cam path and etc. I’d like to take some elements from LWRC’s BCG as well to support the case head and reduce part count too, if we’re making wishes.

>>64109108
>They didn’t entirely
Show me an LMT enhanced bolt with a sheared lug

>>64105899
Dubs of truth

>>64109120
Bad faith challenge. You know there aren’t enough of these things in the wild in the hands of people with the free time and spare cash, or actually in the shit, to put enough rounds through them to induce failure. But you can tell by looking at any one of these square lugged bolts that no matter what alloy it’s made from, it’s the same basic shape as the old milspec and will fail in the same way given enough time. My wager is the redesigned bolt will last longer assuming equal quality in materials and manufacturing because it’s clearly beefier where it matters.

>>64109180
No, it's not. These things are in use by multiple militaries and have been around for decades.

It hasn't been broken because they don't break and your autism doesn't matter. LMT solved the problem in a more efficient manner.

>>64109195
They’ll break. Might outlast every other part in the gun before they go, but they will not last forever, you know that nothing does.

>>64109232
Ok? And?
>part outlives the gun it was built for
wow sounds like they solved the fuckin problem doesn't it

>>64109241
Yeah I’m just nitpicking. Good enough is good enough I suppose but why settle for good enough when perfect is right there?

>>64109261
>good enough
Nigger if neither breaks the KAC solution isn't better it's the same fuckin thing. Except worse, because then you've lost the option of using a standard bolt if the seemingly impossible happens and your bolt does fail.

>>64105928
Dumb question, but how slow and smooth can you make an AR while still reliably cycling? Conventionally as possibly (or not).

>>64111003
>slow and smooth

For slow you definitely want heavy, and I think the OBC is as heavy as it gets. The OBC also has an extra 0.4” of travel, a deadblow weight to retard the carrier briefly at the end of travel and prevent bolt bounce when it bottoms out its forward stroke. I wanna say it’s the best carrier out there for slow and smooth, but I am vaguely aware of like one or two other bespoke carriers that seek to accomplish a similar thing. I forget who makes them.

The OBC also slows down the cyclic rate considerably, down to ~550rpm if memory serves. So if you’re using a super safety or FRT, it’s way more manageable and will take longer to exhaust the magazine.

>>64105618
It's called the bullpup sweaty
Or ar180 platforms

>>64106944
The idea that DI guns were ever bad for suppressed shooting comes from there not being many DI guns with adjustable gas ports in the 00s. Most were hogged out fixed ports that were overgassed for standard shooting, particularly on carbine length gas systems.
Now that adjustable DI gas ports and mid-length gas systems are common, that issue was solved beyond the improvements to silencer design.

.243 ? Better then an AR-15 still an AR-15 .270 ? Better then an AR-15 actually an AR-10 but better then .308 well unless you get little green tip from case and then you can put em in the little thing then put that little thingy in a .308 Srsly only if we get hit by a EMP or solar flare

>>64106188
Probably less shmoo next to ones eye.

>>64106944
>I'm really tempted to buy the old monolithic quadrail version for fuddbroker prices since Czolt still hasn't brought it back yet.
I kick myself that I didn't buy one when they were ~$1K on clearance.

>>64106944
>pistons are better for suppressed SBRs,
People always say this until they actually try them. Enjoy the pop.

DI is better than piston due to aligning recoil with the chamber and the bolt pressing against the chamber as it unlocks not only reduces wear, causes a smoother disconnect and a better round extraction.

A little bit of carbon residue to clean is a worthy price to pay.

>>64105699
>better in cold weather?

anon how cold does your state get?

no one from nebraska help him.

For me it's piston anything
>cold enough for the auto focus to start fucking off

>>64118144
I thought the big problem with gAyR pattern rifles in the could was the FCU and safety locking up from ice formations from going from outdoors to indoors and back, not a problem with the gas system. Do you have issues with DI guns in the same situation?

>>64118118
Carbon is a lubricant unless it builds up to an excessive degree. Anon is not ready to accept this because we fucking love 2000s era fuddlore here
>>64118161
NTA but piston is perceived as a little better than DI in freezing conditions due to the violence of the action giving a little more energy to move the bolt carrier around. Using the right lube and not bleeding edge gassing a DI AR works fine in freezing temps, and yes both have the same general issue with the FCU freezing over, but there are ways to deal with that as well. AR is solved in all environments

>>64118161
The safety and mag release is a problem for both DI and piston. Manipulating them once the rifle has cold soaked usually cleans it out enough
On DI rifles condensation is a problem on the bcg due to tight tolerances, causing FTEs even with dry lubes. These usually clear up on the 2nd or 3rd shot as the hot gases clear everything. That heat can cause a refreeze later, but usually that's not a problem unless you're consistently -20ish or lower. If the gun runs in good conditions with an H2ish, swapping back to carbine can help deal with the extreme cold cases.
There is a tight balance between using water-displacing lubes and having too much lube that slows down the action when the viscosity thickens. I'm a bit fan of a thin layer of g96 wiped on all the mating surfaces

>>64113501
>steps backwards
oh no no no

>>64118430
Son, your ass is facing forward, turn around

>>64106944
>>64116466
Call clyde armory they have the cure for what ails you

>>64104698 (OP)
>AR15 but proprietary
Waow how wholesome 100, who gives a fuck?

>>64105049
there is and its called an AK

>>64118144
i love it when people take a temperature reading from 3+ feet away with a cheap heat gun. because theyre retarded and dont understand how it works

>>64124303
Are you implying it's too inaccurate to give a difference in reading between the gun and the surroundings? The gun was cold soaked for 12hrs+