Thread 64120589

Supersonic 300blk is just 7.62x39 for the AR, but worse.
>but it was actually made for subsonic loads out of a short barrel!!
Even if we're comparing apples to apples, subsonic 300blk is literally worse than 9mm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnedpQ4xTIo
But 9mm isn't limited in platform like 300blk. There are a shitload of different 9mm firearms in a shitload of different packages for different needs.
>but it was actually made for longer distances!! You can change from subs to supers if you need to!!
So you can do 2 things shittily. Amazing.

It's a poor attempt to make the AR do everything. It's not even good for hunting.

>>64120589 (OP)
Video you posted would be pretty dependent on the specific hollow points used
Subsonic 300bl will also be better at medium ranges than a 9mm because of a better ballistic coefficient
And the idea of going from the equivalent of a subsonic 9mm carbine to a 30cal rifle round with the swap of a magazine is pretty fucking dope

Yes anon we can't cheat mathematics. 300 Blackout's main problem is the bullet diameter is so low yet the sectional density is so high you are inevitably just going to ice pick a 30 caliber hole through the target with subs. 338 ARC tries to address this with insignificant advantages

I dare say if you live in a forested area or an urban area (~85% of the US population) then a PCC AR in 10mm or 45 makes far more sense than any sort of 60k PSI rifle chambering.

>>64120589 (OP)
>just 762x39 but worse
Maybe, I dont know, but I can use 300 blackout with the same magazine and bolt, so that gives it more value in my eyes. And most people that like .300 do because it's decent at suppressing, which 762x39 fucking sucks at because its bullet weighs the same as 9mm.

Which is why .350L with SWC or JSP is better in every way.

>>64120589 (OP)
Look at real world hunting performance of of good supersonic .300 blk(ex 110gr Barnes, 110gr VMAX) vs comparable 5.56 loads. Notably bigger holes from notably shorter barrel lengths. .300 blk is good, but ammo cost makes it not worth it for most people unless they reload.

>>64120748
>PCC AR in 10mm or 45 makes far more sense
Oh, good thing those are widely available.

>>64120788
Grand Power in Slovakia makes a roller-delayed gun in both chamberings for $1000, and CMMG has one made in the USA for $2000 if you want something domestic

>>64120788
https://us.glock.com/en/Pistols/G20-Gen5-MOS
https://recovertactical.com/product/recover-tactical-20-21-stabilizer-kit-for-10mm-45acp-large-frame-glocks/

>>64120589 (OP)
Anon I know you are hoping no one who understsnd the subject matter actually watches that video but for those that do not, .300 BLK subs designed for a 16" barrel are going to be anemic in an 8" barrel.

>>64120964
That's literally one of the most popular options for subsonic 300blk on the market, retard. And it still comes in at over 1000 fps as shown in the video. This is supposed to be a round that excels with short barrels.

You think a different subsonic loading would fare better? Post it.

Yes full send or no send use
Use .450 Bushmaster or .5o Beowofl

>>64120824
The stribog is 1500 minimum. It hasn't been 1000 in forever, and its perpetually out of stock. It's also 3x the price of a poorfag 300 blk.

>>64121036
The irony is that when you do the math of bullet weight with velocity the 9mm does not come close to the .300 BLK subs for energy.

>>64120589 (OP)
I always figured the main "positive" was that you can just shove it in the same mag as 5.56 and change the barrel and thats it. 7.62x39 i think you could also just do a barrel swap but youd need different magazines

.458 SOCOM BTFOs all of you

>>64121773
>Cheapest is $1.50/Rd
Oof

I'm seeing 300bl on ammoseek for cheaper than 5.56 right now

>>64121036
Anon, it is a loading with a velocity limit that is optimized for a 16" barrel.
The same BLK sub projectile at the 9mm's (still subsonic) velocity would jump it to more than 20% higher energy.

>>64121723
>>64121829
>energy
Bullets do damage in two ways.
One, the temporary cavity. As the bullet enters the body, the shockwave creates a cavity in the tissue. For a lower speed round, this does minimal damage and the flesh just snaps back. However, if the round moves fast enough, the displacement of the flesh exceeds its ability to stretch, which can tear it apart. This only happens with high velocity bullets, generally rifle rounds moving over 2000fps.

Subs, of course, are limited to under ~1125fps. They move too slow to do real damage with the temporary cavity. Thus you are left with the permanent cavity, which is the hole the bullet actually makes as it moves through the body.

Here, energy does not matter nearly as much, it's really down to bullet design. In fact, energy can be a hinderance and limit energy transfer, in addition to potentially nailing the neighbor's dog.
That's what this anon >>64120748 meant when he said
>300 Blackout's main problem is the bullet diameter is so low yet the sectional density is so high you are inevitably just going to ice pick a 30 caliber hole through the target with subs
It's just not going to expand as well as 9mm can, it's not going to leave as nice of a wound channel, and it's not going to transfer energy as well.

>>64122068
you suffer from inferior mental bullet construction

>>64122068
Kinda pedantic/fine points but

>Shockwave causes TSC
Not really the case, TSC is caused by tissue being accelerated away from the projectile but this is not caused by the "shockwave" of the projectile. At least not in the sense of an actual shockwave which propagates at the rate of the speed of sound for the medium in question. TSC formation happens at around 8-12% of a projectiles forward velocity, it's really just the tissue being accelerated by the energy being deposited in the tissue.

>2000fps
Most rifle rounds begin to produce meaningful TSC around 1800fps, with larger frontal areas you can see this happening at much lower velocities. This is true down to at least 1500fps and can be seen both with shotgun slugs and was well documented with older large bore military/hunting guns in that velocity range.

>>64122068
>a 190+ gr bullet will expand less than a 147 gr bullet

Anon I...

>>64122068
What fucking year do you think it is, grandpa? .300 blk has no problem expanding. This fucking starfish ripping through your organs is going to fuck your shit up harder than any 9mm load out there.

>>64122075
Did you fire this at an animal, or was it fired through ballistic gelatin or jugs of water or other incredibly non-creature things?

>>64122259
Does hornady or who the fuck ever go around shooting people with .45 to prove that their bullets expand, or do they just use non-creature things like jello?

>>64122285
That's not quite what I asked.
Are the bullets designed or advertised for shooting gelatin? If they were, and you got those results by shooting gelatin, I would say those bullets are impressive. But I don't think that's what the bullets were designed for.

>>64122294
What would make them unimpressive in gelatin?

>>64122325
For a second time you've avoided my question. Are you an LLM?
To answer yours, the bullets having failed to expand would make them unimpressive in gelatin, and it would also make them unimpressive in animal bodies.
So were the bullets fired at gelatin? Or were they fired at things they were designed for, like medium to large mammalian land animals?

>>64122294
That is what you asked. You asked (in a passive aggressive manner, typical of a female) if those impressive results were from shooting an animal, or gelatin, so that you could then say "they may perform well in gelatin, but what about creatures, such as humans?" And to that, my answer is that every single picture of an expanded bullet you have ever seen in your entire life that is used by the MFG to tout their performance, was achieved by shooting gel.

>>64122338
Other than hunting cartridges, I've never seen a bullet recovered from a creature, excluding Paul harrel's meat targets. We should probably just assume that no hollow points work at all until we have personally gunned down a 'groid and recovered the bullet. I have never done this with .45, so I have no reason to assume it expands better than. 300blk.

>>64122338
Manufacturers of bullets realistically cannot go around shooting animals (or even corpses) just for advertising purposes. That is a big no-no. Even the government stopped experimenting with shooting sheep cadavers a long time ago.

I don't buy copper bullets because expansion results from ballistic gelatin shot in laboratory environments are not realistic representations of real-world performance.

Your assumption that "300 blackout subsonic actually does expand" might be true, but in ballistic gelatin or water jugs only, and animals are not gelatin or water jugs.

>>64122355
>I haven't seen subsonic .300 blackout expansion results in an animal, so I dont trust it
As you know, hollowpoint expansion and reliability are based on the type of bullet. Some suck, some are great. The original claim was that .45 expands better than sub .300 blk. So, you're going to have to show me these bullets of various manufacturers recovered from animals for the original claim to have any weight. Unless you trust the gelatin results for .45, but not for .300 blk?

>>64122368
A larger diameter bullet can and thus will expand to be larger than a smaller diameter bullet, all things equal. This is a simple mathematical fact that is true for both gelatin and animals and requires no photographic examples.

>>64122383
.300 blk projectiles are longer, that means that the "petals" reach out further. Assuming that they do expand as well as those pictures, do you have any reason to assume that it's less lethal than an expanded .45 slug? The diameter of that star is fuckhuge.
>a larger diameter bullet can and will...
No, many bullets completely fail to expand. This used to be a problem with 9mm and is still a problem with .380.
>diameter
The expanded .300blk is much higher diameter than an expanded .45.

>>64120589 (OP)
Tbh 9mm is the best civilian ammo
>FMJ for training
>HP for niggers
>Buffalo bore hardcast for lower 48 animals
>Huge selection of guns, from tiny pocket pistols to supersafe PCCs
>Hearing safe with subs and a can
>Cheapest round that isn't 22lr
It just werks

>>64122420
Did it win 2 world wars?
No?

Damn. That sucks.

>>64122429
But it did doe, lots of nations used 9mm (including winners)

>>64122429
9mm has killed far more nogs than every single person killed by every single pistol caliber in every single war combined. And the body count is still rising.

>>64120824
The cmmg guns suck don't buy them. I had one in 45 that never made it through a mag even after sending it back to get fixed.

>>64120589 (OP)
>Supersonic 300blk is just 7.62x39 for the AR, but worse.
7.62x39 ARs use either use stupid proprietary magazines, or AK mags that don't lock open on empty. The supers also perform way better out of a short barrel than 5.56 & 9mm.

>>64120589 (OP)
>'literally'
Entire topic discarded.

>>64122470
Also the most common nog armament known to man.
Live by the nine, die by the nine.

>>64120589 (OP)
300 blackout is a meme. So is 5.7

>>64121704
>poorfag 300 blk.
Oxymoron

>>64120589 (OP)
>Supersonic 300blk is just 7.62x39 for the AR, but worse.
False, it is superior. 300blk has superior ballistic coefficient to 7.62x39, with a greater variety of bullet options. Additionally 300blk supers do better muzzle energy with less barrel length than 7.62x39 does. Compare for example a 9" 300blk to a 9" 7.62x3
>subsonic 300blk is literally worse than 9mm
What? Not at all. Better trajectory, more energy.

>>64120964
>.300 BLK subs designed for a 16" barrel
What retard faggot other than some backwater PA boomer who shoots his gay bolt gun from his porch on Friday night is loading 300blk subs for 16" barrels? The entire point of the cartridge and its associated platforms was to be effective out of barrels 5-10" in length, optimized for 7-9" or so.

>>64121802
Based factual information poster

>muh short barrels
The AR-15 and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

>>64120589 (OP)
>It's not even good for hunting.
You are a massive poser

>>64122613
this, but unironically
>muh mushy trigger

>>64120788
I keep looking at a Ruger lc carbine converted to 460 Rowland…. It’s nice

>>64122575
I plan on trying that, but I want to run it out of a Henry supreme lever action…. Looks like fun

>>64122613
Current trends are definitely showing it’s a feasible concept it just needed some time for refinement on par with what modern AR‘s have received. If we just start training to a knew manual of arms they would be an objective improvement over AR’s.

>>64120589 (OP)
I never got excited about 300
Plus if you use 9mm liberty defense rounds you'll probably get close to 3000 FPS in a 16''

>>64122575
>300blk has superior ballistic coefficient to 7.62x39
This is a mechanically-illiterate statement. There is no context which mitigates how wrong this claim is, including what immediately follows it.
>with a greater variety of bullet options
You can use 308 in x39.
>Additionally 300blk supers do better muzzle energy with less barrel length than 7.62x39 does
Fucking horseshit, x39 has more case capacity, it makes more energy at ALL barrel lengths.
>Compare for example a 9" 300blk to a 9" 7.62x39
Factory ammo? So you're cheating the comparison because you know the .300 will be loaded with faster powder. Otherwise, no, more capacity enables either more speed at the same pressures, or the same speed at lower pressures, always, no exceptions.

>>64120589 (OP)
The only (and I mean only) 223-compatible cartridge which does this hybrid sub/super game well is the .277 wolverine. .277 is the smallest common bore size at which super-heavies;
>take full advantage of the available powder column (no excessive cutting back of the shoulder)
>fit in the 2.26" COAL
>are naturally subsonic at full pressure in short barrels
All the things which people claim the 300blk is good at are just better at a smaller bore size. More energy at range (and virtually equal at the muzzle due to just better efficiency), less recoil, flatter trajectory, less wind deflection, better suppression, and all of these advantages apply to both supers and subs.

300blk (and 300whisper before it) is 30 caliber because of the mere existence of 7.62x39 and 7.62x51, and NO OTHER REASON. It is way off optimal, "30" is just a bore diameter stuck in the military and gun owner psyche, there's no engineering justification for a 30-caliber small-frame AR cartridge based off the constraints of the 223 case head and STANAG magazine.

>>64123344
>mechanically-illiterate
Literally just google it. Most off the shelf 300blk loadings use bullets with better BCs than the off the shelf 7.62x39 rounds.
>You can use 308 in x39
No one is talking about your autistic hobby of home loading 7.62x39 with a handful of nice high BC .308 bullets.
>Fucking horseshit, x39 has more case capacity, it makes more energy at ALL barrel lengths.
>case capacity
Once again, no one gives a shit about your gay reloading hobby boomer. Factory ammo to factory ammo, for the barrel lengths of interest (7-9"), 300blk has more muzzle energy (supers). And no one gives a shit about 11-16" barrel lengths in a 300blk discussion because said long barrels entirely defeat the purpose of a short subsonic/supersonic capable rifle.
>Factory ammo? So you're cheating the comparison
>Factory = cheating
What the fuck are you going on about? For literally 99% of of shooters factory ammo is all that we care about or consider, and guess what, factory supersonic 300blk beats out factory 7.62x39 in barrels 7-9"
Deal with it.

Also this entire conversation is fucking stupid because 7.62x39 doesn't reliably cycle subsonics in short platforms of any type, 300blk does. The entire point of the cartridge was that you can hot swap subs to supers in a tactical situation.

>>64121044
What language is this?

>>64122470
>>64122521
>nogs use it to kill eachother
ok
>this means its the best
flawed logic right there

>>64120589 (OP)
.350 Legend bros, where you at?

>>64122259
I shot them at a trash bag full of water, the right hand one hit the ground before it had fully stopped which is why it's all lopsided.

>>64124604
Police also use it to waste nogs. So do civilians. 9mm has killed more nogs than .45 could ever hope to. All .45 ever killed was paper from 7m away at an indoor range.

>>64125921
>All .45 ever killed was paper from 7m away at an indoor range
>Literally two fucking world wars and Vietnam, extremely popular self defense caliber for 100 years +
Are you actually retarded

>>64122399
>No, many bullets completely fail to expand. This used to be a problem with 9mm and is still a problem with .380.
The bigger problem with .380 is that they expand properly and then it doesn't penetrate for shit. If you're going to use .380, just use FMJ or wadcutters. They're consistent and they'll kill you dead.

>>64120748
>SD/area

What? SD is already mass/area. Why put it over area a second time? That becomes mass/area^4 and so will massively benefit small calibers.

The SD figures are also wrong (or just really weird). Grains per square inch is divided by 1000 for some reason.

>>64126111
*Caliber^4, my bad

>>64124604
The superiority of a cartridge is in fact determined by the size of the mountain of nigger corpses it has produced. It only follows that the best cartridge is gonna be the one the nogs use, because nobody kills nogs like other nogs (wtf I love nogs now!)

>>64122470
I remarked in another thread that Gaston Glock is second only to Margaret Sanger in his efforts to keep America from becoming South Africa. Well done, Uncle Gaston and Aunt Marge, but it appears we are still losing the battle.

>>64120589 (OP)
You can do all of the things in a very small package, that is still accurate enough to engage targets at realistic ranges. 9mm has terrible dispersion, external and terminal ballistics are bad. 110 supers destroy shit, expanding subsonics for low vis shit. AP an option.

The compromise is the use of supersonic bullets. .300whisper was designed for subsonic loadings, 338ARC optimizes for that at the expense of supersonic memes. 8.6 is just a product improved version + lessons learned.

The goal is not to supplant the M4, but the MP5SD. Also why it's been very popular with the eurocops.

>>64127324
>You can do all of the things
300blk is a terrible supersonic rifle cartridge. And I know linguistically "supersonic" is only half of the whole, but in reality speed kills, and the vast, vast majority of rifle uses are with supersonic projectiles.
With 300blk you can do "all the things" poorly.
>8.6 is just a product improved version + lessons learned.
8.6blackout is perhaps the embodiment of all the worst design objectives rolled into one single cartridge. It is completely fucking useless, an exercise in making guns harder to accomplish any actual work with.
>expensive cases and projectiles
>rainbow arc
>small case capacity for size class
>high recoiling
The supersonics maybe do 2200fps? This is an AR-10 cartridge we're talking about. It has inferior ballistics to 30-40Krag...what the fuck are people thinking?

>>64127444
It is apparent you are not familiar with any bullet that wasn't designed in 1910, the people that use these guns and their needs, or a basic understanding of modern terminal ballistics. .30-40 krag? what year is it? have you taken your metamucil grandpa?

Obviously bait, but the widespread adoption is proof enough.

>>64127480
>30-40 krag? what year is it?
You are functionally illiterate. The reason I mentioned 30-40krag was to drive home the point that 8.6 is impotent bullshit. 30-40 got it's shit pushed in by 7mm Mauser.
>picrel
>ONE result from ONE-hundred yards
Keep proving my point you dumb fag.

>>64127503
>one result
They've been putting people in the dirt for over a decade dude. WAKE UP.

>>64127512
Yeah I also remember Alex Murdaugh, does a great job at 5ft. So does a pistol.

>>64127480
>>64127444
Hate me boomers, simple as

>>64122068
>>64122075
>>64122259
>>64122338
>>64122353
>>64122355
>>64122368
>>64122383
>>64122399
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH 300BLK CHADS I KNEEL.

>>64127810
Supersonic .300 BLK is more or less 7.62x39 or .30-30. Subsonic, it's more or less .45 ACP.

>>64122353
>I have never done this…
>…
>…with .45.

Kek

>>64122399
This is seriously underappreciated. Have you seen how wide 8.6 blackout maker rex bullets expand in gel? It’s like >1.3”, easy. They also trace a beautiful triple helix in gel, which, at least in principle, would increase the chances of a vital hit.

>>64127444
NTA. 8.6 blackout (supersonic) in its current incarnation is nothing to write home about. But in a hybrid case, with light-for-caliber VLD bullets, it turns out the 8.6 blackout has the right ogive space and the right overbore ratio to be something like a CETME cartridge, so it would be pretty cool and useful that way. Its present supersonic performance is shit, and subs nerf it even more. 338 whisper stands out from the rest of the lineup in that it has a huge case for its caliber and so is better optimized for supersonic loads. I wouldn’t t look at an 8.6 blackout, not knowing what it is, and say “yeah that’s a subsonic cartridge”.

I’ll concede the twist rate does seem to be very useful for subsonic expanding bullets but really limits supersonic velocity. How fast can you go before bullets starts ripping themselves apart in flight? I know the supers right now, at a velocity of low 2000’s, are doing like 500,000rpm, which is a fuckton of angular velocity for a .338 bullet,

>>64127810
>LRHF
The "wounding animals until one of them dies in a convenient place" club.

>>64127444
> completely fucking useless
Not completely. It’s a great idea for extracting money from clueless zoomers that are too young to have heard of the 358 Winchester, which does everything the 8.6 does better, does it for cheaper, and has been doing all of this for over half a century.

I think Q o can start a whole industry around poorly duplicating obscure old chamberings using meme twist rates and less common parent cases, just as long as the marketing and YouTube shilling remains effective.

>>64127861
Out of short barrels 7-9" comparing good supersonic 300blk loads meant for hunting or shit, vmax etc to like good military loadings for 7.62x39, vympel etc, 300blk has better muzzle energy and both external and terminal ballistics.

300blk ballistics are complete dogshit over 100 yards. Might as well use a bow lol.

>>64128632
>between military loadings designed for 16" barrels, and hunting loadings designed for 7-9" barrels, can you guess which performs better out of a 7-9" barrel???
Wow. I wonder what happens when you load 7.62 with the powder used in the 300blk loadings.
If forced to choose I'd take 300blk over 7.62 just because one is dying out (for good reasons) and the other isn't (for bad reasons), but retarded comparisons like that are the reason the cartridge world is full of junk, like the entire ARC/Grendel line, and everything based on 30 Remington, and 400Legend (if you believe Winchester's bullshit about it somehow NOT being based on the 30rem/6.8SPC).

>>64128810
>factory off the shelf loadings as compared to factory off the shelf loadings
Ah yes, the "retarded" comparison
>the cartridge world is full of junk, like the entire ARC/Grendel line, and everything based on 30 Remington, and 400Legend (if you believe Winchester's bullshit about it somehow NOT being based on the 30rem/6.8SPC).
Tell me you're a reloading boomer with zero mind for the larp without telling me you're a reloading boomer with zero mind for the larp

>>64122105
Never seen it before
Never will happen
Killing is a meme, nobody truly dies

>>64128917
If people die, then why are there more people in the world than ever before? Checkmate, atheists.

>>64120589 (OP)
It's more comparable to 9x39 not 7.62x39. The two even look almost identical in dimensions. Even supersonic, neither are as good performing all around. The bullet is too heavy, the 7.62x39 can zip faster and shoots in a straighter arc. Those rounds are designed specifically to be used subsonic, no real point in using them otherwise.

They should make more subsonic 7.62x39 so at least you can switch between ammo types and have a good all around performing intermediate.

>>64128810
Well, if you use a .308 intended projectile in a gun built for .308 then you'd get ice picking and failures to function. If you use .300 blk projectiles then you now have a shitty .300 blk performing rifle using a larger framed receiver for no damn reason and requiring considerable modification for reliable function.

>>64129106
You guys genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

>>64129106
>those rounds are designed specifically to be used subsonic
You're wrong, at least as it pertains to 300blk
>no real point in using them otherwise
Wrong again, 300blk supers do excellent out of barrel lengths 7-9" where 5.56 falls flat on its face, and 7.62x39 isn't ideal either.

>>64129197
1. Your group is shit
2. Your bc is shit
3. Your fps is shit
4. Your handwriting is shit
5. Your wife's fat ass is great many good time we had.

>>64129197
are you a child? I spent a minute trying to figure out what that word is between “0.36” and “BC” because it did not occur to me that someone who is ostensibly not a child would capitalize the 2nd letter of a word.

Anyway, with that out of the way. Do you buy those cartridges or do you load NAS3 cases yourself? Have you compared them against regular brass-cased loads? 120gr@2380fps is quite impressive for 300 blackout. What’s your barrel length?

>>64124451
>subsonic 7.62x39 can't cycle short platforms
All of the factory x39 sub loads cycle in my 9.5" barrel
The biggest issue with x39 is a lack of bullet development. You basically have SST or Barnes for domestic factory ammo, and those are not optimized for subs. Hornady had an opportunity to build a quality heavy for caliber bullet with the 255gr subx, but it doesn't expand beyond 9mm at subsonic velocities; a total abortion of a bullet
>>64129197
These bullets and the 130s are excellent hunters. The 130s can be loaded in x39 with CFE BLK

>>64120589 (OP)
Would a car like that be useful for SHTF? I play a lot of CDDA and I always make an amphibious vehicle in it because rivers are everywhere and going through cities is a major PITA in the ass.

>>64121733
>7.62x39 i think you could also just do a barrel swap but youd need different magazines
Nope, need a new bolt and extractor for the wider rim as well.
On the other hand, different magazines aren't -entirely- necessary. A 5.56 mag can have some limited function with a 7.62x39 rifle and ammo. The mismatch doesn't add up into a problem and it tends to work, if you only load three or four rounds. That could be enough to get the job done in a pinch.

>>64131544
Yeah no
Just get the special mags for it
I wish duramag made a 25rd
Unimags worked pretty good, but not available anymore

>>64122429
>Used in the first practical SMG in WW1, as well as stocked mauser C96s and artillery lugers, used in the Beretta M1918
>used by both sides in WW2 as standard SMG round
>Post war becomes NATO tandard pistol and SMG round
I'd say 9mm parabellum won pretty spectacularly

>>64120788
https://mechtechsys.com/ccu-models/glock

I've killed many a coon with a Glock 21 topped with one of these and wearing a suppressor.

It's a'ight. Only drawback is the lack of reliable extended mags for the G21

>>64126026
.45 has been held back by either being chambered in outright shitty weapons, inconsequential weapons like sidearms, or weapons to which there were just better alternatives.

>WW1
>Used in 1911s and M1917 revolvers by Americans for the last year of the war, so basically irrelevant

>WW2
>Used in the Thompson by the bongs when they were caught with their pants down without a proper smg
>Used in the Thompson and Reising by the US but very quickly eclipsed by the first proper intermediate caliber self loading rifle, the M1 carbine
>Finally used in a decent SMG when the M3 grese gun entred service, for a short period at the end of the war

And by vietnam .45 ACP was truly irrelevant, there were still loads of M1 carbines in service and ARs were starting to enter service.

Also tilting barrels suck ass and the 1911 should not be as popular as it is, tilting block below the barrel is the superior short recoil mechanism, and the germans figured it out with the Mauser C96 already, Walther made it mag-in-grip with the P38, and Beretta made it sexy and double stack with the 92 series, the beretta 92 is the pinnacle of handgun design and I'm tired of pretending it isn't

>>64132295
>entire wall of text obliterated with one pic

>>64132302
Holy shit, .45 acp can shoot through glass???? Truly God's caliber.