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Thread 64222169

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Anonymous No.64222169 [Report] >>64222187 >>64222816 >>64222826 >>64223224 >>64223230 >>64223250 >>64223303 >>64223407 >>64229871 >>64232689 >>64232928 >>64238681 >>64241136 >>64241252 >>64245630 >>64247763 >>64249556 >>64249913 >>64250269 >>64253541 >>64253565 >>64262117 >>64264373 >>64265155 >>64269438 >>64280528
Why don't we have beam rifles yet?
Anonymous No.64222187 [Report] >>64257677 >>64259191
>>64222169 (OP)
Because your soul is weighed down by Earth's gravity!
Anonymous No.64222816 [Report] >>64246263
>>64222169 (OP)
It's just a supersoaker
Anonymous No.64222826 [Report] >>64223227 >>64224334
>>64222169 (OP)
Because the Minovsky Particle remains undetected by the Large Hadron Collider.
Anonymous No.64223224 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
Haven't we been experimenting with direct energy weapons for the past few decades?
Anonymous No.64223227 [Report] >>64223318 >>64241053
>>64222826
>Gundam Wing
>Minovsky Particle
Pick one.
Anonymous No.64223230 [Report] >>64241090
>>64222169 (OP)
Who up beamin they rifle rn
Anonymous No.64223249 [Report]
The problem is that the particle beam, which has been so carefully focused, will repel itself and spread.
Anonymous No.64223250 [Report] >>64223376 >>64241096
>>64222169 (OP)
Beam weapons ARE FUCKING LAME AND GAY
Anonymous No.64223303 [Report] >>64228338 >>64233670
>>64222169 (OP)
>what do
>make slow as fuck beam weapons
>don't make gauss or lasers
Gundam is dum.
Anonymous No.64223318 [Report] >>64223340 >>64224215 >>64227113 >>64233662 >>64238036 >>64247718 >>64266768
>>64223227
Wing is fucking gay. That is my choice.
Anonymous No.64223340 [Report] >>64223884
>>64223318
Anonymous No.64223376 [Report]
>>64223250
For me it's the /fit/ Gundam.
Anonymous No.64223407 [Report] >>64223892
>>64222169 (OP)
Because kinetic weapons that use a projectile propelled by an explosive still offer a far more efficient ratio of stored energy relative to energy delivered on-target when compared to directed energy weapons.
Anonymous No.64223884 [Report]
>>64223340
Anonymous No.64223892 [Report] >>64246139
>>64223407
You think you're clever but beam weapons are pretty much magic and btfo out conventional weapons. It's a Mighty Mouse vs Superman argument.
Anonymous No.64223952 [Report] >>64223999 >>64230000
Wing is a high school drama between mentally insane, pereptually 8 year old mind friends in the backdrop of a future interstellar war.
Anonymous No.64223999 [Report]
>>64223952
>its a tv show meant to appeal to and sell toys to pre-teen blys

Yes.
Anonymous No.64224215 [Report] >>64224822 >>64229805 >>64230064
>>64223318
Wing is awesome dude, take a look at these three video clips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rodBIsXTfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0z6OQhlRlY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMuuVn0zQ64
Anonymous No.64224334 [Report]
>>64222826
No, because you are half right. In Gundams universe, they were able to capture the Muon, in ours, its not possible thus we can not create the containment lattice for a particle beam.
Anonymous No.64224822 [Report]
>>64224215
Heero not wanting to go to birthday party > Wufei's sexist remarks
Anonymous No.64227113 [Report]
>>64223318
Yeah but that's part of what makes it based
Anonymous No.64227552 [Report]
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ALLD.CD?locations=ZG
Anonymous No.64228338 [Report]
>>64223303
They did have a rail gun for the Atlas Gundam. It shredded shit like it should.
Anonymous No.64229805 [Report]
>>64224215
I love how Wufei's sexism is canonically overcompensation for him being a pussy ass bitch prior to the series.
Anonymous No.64229871 [Report] >>64229879
>>64222169 (OP)
Why would beam weapons be rifled?
Anonymous No.64229879 [Report] >>64230229
>>64229871
uhh, toroidal collimation.
Anonymous No.64230000 [Report] >>64238234
>>64223952
>interstellar
Everything in the story is around Earth. They don't leave the solar system, dum dum.
Anonymous No.64230064 [Report]
>>64224215
The legendary 15 year old boomer
Anonymous No.64230229 [Report]
>>64229879
That's actually a good point.
Anonymous No.64232684 [Report] >>64233726
give the mechs a huge multi barrel autocannon instead
Anonymous No.64232689 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
imagine a self defense scenario in which someone puts two guns together to make a mega gun. It just wouldn't work
Anonymous No.64232928 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
Because Glocks and ARs are better
Anonymous No.64233662 [Report]
>>64223318
>wing
>implying all of gundam isn't
Anonymous No.64233670 [Report] >>64233673 >>64236705 >>64243209
>>64223303
IIRC masters were used as weapons in very early UC but fell off because they developed an anti later coating that basically nullified them for anything other than communication.
Anonymous No.64233673 [Report] >>64236705
>>64233670
>masters
*Lasers, fuck
Anonymous No.64233726 [Report]
>>64232684
Heavyarms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kc8sIyfu0A
Anonymous No.64236705 [Report] >>64236739
>>64233670
>>64233673
>laser coating
This is just more "nuh uh" type shit huh. You could use pulsed lasers or straight up bomb pumped lasers but again Gundam is dum.
Anonymous No.64236739 [Report]
>>64236705
Well it's some bullshittium coating that nullifies lasers but it's not like they don't use laser weapons, zeon famously used one at the end of the OYW.
And why would they even spend resources on lasers when they have minovsky particle weapons already?
Anonymous No.64236808 [Report]
Because beams don't need the rifling.
Anonymous No.64238036 [Report] >>64238041
>>64223318
Wing isn't gay enough.
Any time one of it's women is on screen the viewing experience drastically suffers
Anonymous No.64238041 [Report] >>64238064 >>64238075
>>64238036
Wasn't main boy cast made specifically to bring in as many women viewers into gundam?
Anonymous No.64238064 [Report]
>>64238041
yeah all the characters are such blatant fujobait
Anonymous No.64238075 [Report] >>64245904
>>64238041
Yeah that's part of the good shit.
What we need infinitely less is all the womaning.
Honestly just remove the peace princess and you've probably done enough.
Peace princesses make any series they're a part of worse
Anonymous No.64238234 [Report]
>>64230000
I dont give a shit. Thats how little I care
And it doesnt matter anyways.
Anonymous No.64238681 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
The military and scientific institutions of the world have been holding back the tech solely to screw over mechfag. That's not you, is it? You're not the one holding us back... Are you?
Anonymous No.64241053 [Report] >>64241083 >>64247881
>>64223227
Does this mean it's open season for radar and guided weapons in Wing?
Anonymous No.64241083 [Report]
>>64241053
Remember some random thing about the Gundams in Wing being anti-radar, something about the ridiculously tough material they were made of.
At the very least the Deathscythe has a bunch of bullshit it uses for stealth purposes, outright visual cloaking device when it gets upgraded.

If thats the case it would still be on the table vs the 'conventional' mobile suits made of regular armor.
Anonymous No.64241090 [Report]
>>64223230
imma chargin' my lazor
Anonymous No.64241096 [Report]
>>64223250
IBO was shit, it had no idea what it even wanted to be.
Shouldn't have been a Gundam show, should have just been a show about knight robots fighting the big AI monster machines.
Anonymous No.64241136 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
Because you touch yourself at night
Anonymous No.64241252 [Report] >>64242189 >>64263386
>>64222169 (OP)
We (general public) may never legally get them considering what a large-scale fire hazard they'd be in the hands of reckless folks trying to ignore safety aspects. A gun going off by accident can be bad enough, but a beam rifle will fire off a beam and cause an explosion or kick-start a fire to an extreme degree. Or so I think.
Anonymous No.64242189 [Report] >>64243505 >>64247688 >>64263386
>>64241252
I think the lack of the massive fusion powered combat biped necessary for using said beam rifle would be the more immediate barrier to entry.
But who knows, UC seemed to think you could just go out and buy a surplus MS if you had the want and the funds
Anonymous No.64243209 [Report] >>64243499 >>64245747
>>64233670
Are you talking about a anti-beam coating ala the hyaku shiki?
Because that hardly ended beam weapons
Anonymous No.64243499 [Report]
>>64243209
No, the anti beam coating is a other thing.

Before the advent of mobile suits there was an anti-laser coating developed which made lasers impractical to use because you'd need a really big fucking laser so people switched to minovsky particle cannons
Anonymous No.64243505 [Report] >>64245955
>>64242189
I mean, why wouldn't you?

A disarmed MS is basically a piece of construction machinery
Anonymous No.64245630 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
Undoubtedly would take an absolute fuckton of power and regardless we don't understand the physics to make one assuming it's even possible.
Anonymous No.64245747 [Report]
>>64243209
NTA, they also had some kind of beam deflector tech in Gundam X, it seemed like some kind of shield generator that bounced beam weapons off but it was still vulnerable to missiles and guns.
Anonymous No.64245904 [Report] >>64259293
>>64238075
I knew this and hated them but couldn't vocalize it...
Because they are peaceniks right? Like, they are the sort of idiots who will fuck over your own side by forcing it to give up military advantage or will end up in a pickup beaten so everyone can cheer how broken she ended up.
Anonymous No.64245955 [Report] >>64246033
>>64243505
I was thinking about it being like buying a surplus F-15 today when I should have been thinking of it like buying a surplus P-51 just after WW2 which was very much something you could do desu.

It's odd how we only see the concept come up two times in UC (that I know of) and for both the context was an enthusiast/collector one.
You think you'd see zakus and jims pop up more often being used as heavy equipment instead of just specifically civilian mobile workers like how tanks were repurposed after WW2
Anonymous No.64246033 [Report] >>64246074 >>64247624
>>64245955
Presumably the high-speed combat design of the Mobile Suits doesn't mesh well with using them as careful workers.

Its not like Balls were great weapons, those were literally just worker machines with guns strapped to them because the Federation was playing catch-up and had more pilots than MS so had to make use of its manpower.

The most you see is variants of guntanks and the zaku tanks (made out of torso of Zakus stuck on top of Zeons oversized tanks) used as recovery vehicles for MS on Earth.
Anonymous No.64246074 [Report]
>>64246033
I can understand later stuff being too high performance or fuel hungry or whatever to be of much use but worker zakus do show up, though only being used by the zeeks during the war so you'd think some civilian use would be made of them.
I guess it could be a smoke em if you got em thing for the zeek military though that wouldn't be practical for a user that didn't have the full support ecosystem for zakus already.
Anonymous No.64246139 [Report]
>>64223892
We're talking about real life not your gay Chinese cartoons
Anonymous No.64246263 [Report] >>64248751
>>64222816
We bottle our sunshine instead of squirting it.
Anonymous No.64247624 [Report]
>>64246033
Something about a stuck mecha getting recovered by a tracked vehicle greatly amuses me
Anonymous No.64247688 [Report] >>64248855 >>64249647
>>64242189
>But who knows, UC seemed to think you could just go out and buy a surplus MS if you had the want and the funds
The UC setting's 2A must be craaaaazy. In Zeta Gundam, the Titans run up on Reccoa in an "old" Gelgoog and just assume she is a goofy harmless enthusiast, something to not be worried about. Mind you, at that point the gelgoog is only like 6 years old and is still a solid MS capable of outperforming the original RX-78-2 in most regards. Just a few years prior the federation was going head to head with Zeon remnants using Gelgoog Marines and having trouble, and at the same time Neo Zeon was utilizing refurbished Gelgoogs(Regelgu) as a mainline MS. This is like if the premier US armored corp rolled up on some rednecks with a modernized M60A1 or something and were just like "what a cool guy, owning a fun tank like that." Mind you, the Titans should have been extremely skeptical of any spacenoid using an old Zeon MS since they are supposed to be THE racist faction in the setting as well as their literal jobs being to hunt down and crush Zeon remnants

People say the UC setting is supposed to be dystopian but honestly I'm just not seeing it
Anonymous No.64247718 [Report]
>>64223318
>Wing is fucking gay
true, but ounce for ounce it probably has some of the best designs of all gundam
Anonymous No.64247763 [Report] >>64247790 >>64247815 >>64247939 >>64248854 >>64248863 >>64248871 >>64249539 >>64253309
>>64222169 (OP)
Wing = mass casualty monster/anti-base unit with unlimited beam rifle ammo
Heavy Arms = anti-personnel with limited ammo that burns after a couple of minutes
Deathscythe = stealth unit and close combat specialist
Shenlong = ???
Sandrock = ???

There's no point for the other two
Anonymous No.64247790 [Report] >>64248863
>>64247763
iirc both sandrock and shenlong are recycled designs originally intended for G gundam.
That's why they're silly and nationality themed
Anonymous No.64247815 [Report] >>64276917
>>64247763
>There's no point for the other two
aura farming
Anonymous No.64247881 [Report]
>>64241053
Chivalry was a big thing for OZ (being made up of royalty and aristocrats) and even more so for the Treize Faction. RADAR was already in use to find Mobile Suits and aircraft on Earth. Missile tech was basically dumb rockets though.
Anonymous No.64247939 [Report]
>>64247763
Sandrock is the DEI gundam.
Shenlong doesn't do anything because Wufei just sad because women exist.
Anonymous No.64248751 [Report]
>>64246263
What was the maximum yield of a W-88?
Anonymous No.64248854 [Report]
>>64247763
Shenlong has a flamethrower on its extendable arm, because its Chinese
Anonymous No.64248855 [Report] >>64249679 >>64251981
>>64247688
I was thinking about that scene exactly. Didn't they just find it out in the shoal or something?
Does this mean abandoned MS are like the ducks at the pond?
Anonymous No.64248863 [Report] >>64252502
>>64247763
>>64247790
The Sandrock was perfection.
That's why the only upgrade it needed when remodled (apart from full space thrusters) was a beam uzi to give it a standard ranged weapon beyond its shoulder missiles and head vulcans.
Anonymous No.64248871 [Report]
>>64247763
>with unlimited beam rifle ammo
The Wing actually had really limited ammo for its main gun, unlike the Wing Zero and its double combiner guns.
Anonymous No.64248883 [Report] >>64248929 >>64251985
Why don't we have fin funnels yet
Anonymous No.64248929 [Report]
>>64248883
Do you see dead people? No? Thats why.
Anonymous No.64249539 [Report] >>64265054
>>64247763
The Wing actually can only fire it's buster rifle 3 times before expending it's ammo. Theoretically it can reload the cannisters for more shots, the EW design has elements addressing this. The Shenlong iirc is supposed to be like a guerilla specialist unit, and over the course of the series it does a pretty good job of doing some serious damage to OZ facilities on top of being an excellent melee specialist unit. Thinking that it just looks goofy is kind of an error. The Sandrock is designed as a commander unit specifically. It's meant to keep Quatre safe first and foremost by having the strongest armor of the 5 Gundams and a really good command and control system built on board. It's also the only Gundam designed with an autopilot AI that is also meant to keep the pilot alive. When you consider that it was paired with the Maganac corp, who took ZERO casualties through the entirety of Gundam Wing's numerous crazy conflicts, it's a pretty sweet setup.
Anonymous No.64249556 [Report] >>64252012
>>64222169 (OP)
machines required to generate high energy particle beams are very big and require a lot of power
Anonymous No.64249647 [Report] >>64249664 >>64249679
>>64247688
MS development really went into overdrive after the rx-78 got revealed
zeon went from having basically no response to the gundam to churning out gundam equivalents like the gelgoog in two months and then the research never stopped.
Got so crazy that machine designs that were only a few months old were considered obsolete by new shit that was coming out.
Using that hobby hizack as an example, it was a modern unit when it came out in 0087 but by the time it shows up it's six years later and the tech is so far advanced
Anonymous No.64249664 [Report]
>>64249647
Its just shonen powercreep shit, there's always got to be a new "MOTW" enemy to fight each episode and every series needs a new flashy gundam (or half-dozen nowdays), all these with some gimmicky bullshit.
Anonymous No.64249679 [Report] >>64249728 >>64258639
>>64248855
Yes, more or less
>>64249647
After thinking about this for awhile I think the reason for this is that during the OYW, MS development was "slower" because alot of MS design went into trying to build designs that could be mass produced for a large scale war. After the OYW, all of the conflicts are much smaller in scale and thus the production runs of the MS developed during that time were much smaller, along with more people working on a variety more of different MS to fill more and more niche roles

Also I think the fast development of everything in general is probably from Tomino assuming that future tech will help the design process of things go much faster than today, but idk, at the same time there are plenty of MS that are obsolete as soon as they roll off the assembly line
Anonymous No.64249728 [Report] >>64249748 >>64250122
>>64249679
Well first and foremost the meta reason for all the different MS designs is so they could sell toys


The in universe reason is because of the thematic differences between zeon and the feds.
Zeon, being an expy for Nazi Germany constantly shit out small batches of wonderweapon suits with no interoperability while the feds focused on just making a few designs that worked and then slapping upgrades on them.
I would disagree that Ms development was slow in the OYW, both the feds and Zeke's shat out infinite variations of their suits in just over four months, zeon especially.
After the only year war MS production plateaud, feds were using souped up GMs and the like and zeon was on the DL and just upgrading their gelgoogs. The real development only really started during Gryps when you would get stuff like the moveable frame and transforming MS.

Ironically enough after Zeta everyone went back to using basic grunts with no gimmicks like the Jegan and Doga because they were cheaper
Anonymous No.64249748 [Report] >>64249767 >>64251844
>>64249728
Like you say alot of those designs shat out are due to decades of rl retcons in order to sell more model kits to otakus.

Think of how many goddamn gundams are said to have existed during the OYW now compared to when MSG came out. Its pretty ridiculous.
Anonymous No.64249767 [Report]
>>64249748
There are a couple of guys on YT that tried to count all of them but the answer is inconclusive because japs don't really have a concept of lore canon like westerners do and don't really give a fuck if something doesn't fit into the timeline
Anonymous No.64249861 [Report]
they already exist in impractical format, but no one smart enough to develop practical versions of them is stupid enough to give them to you violent tard monkeys

the real question is why are you and 'people' like you so retarded and evil that you believe you would be worthy of such tech. Blindness and random murder is already so prevalent and relatively incurable within your civilization and you really want easy access to beam weaponry?

haha

perhaps when the yearly mortality rate approaches zero or reverses (resurrection era) the minimum bar of peasantry maturity will be high enough to be barely appropriate, but by then a civilization has hopefully entered a utopiaic vibe where the need for such destructive capacity is almost unheard of
Anonymous No.64249913 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
Charged particles tend to discharge into the air. It's more like a tesla coil than a directed nuclear blast.
Anonymous No.64250122 [Report] >>64250466
>>64249728
I should have clarified more that "relatively" speaking MS production took longer during the OYW. Also MA with gimmicks wasn't something that the gryps conflict really started. Feature rich MS became an in universe trend during the Neo Zeon war with Neo Zeon themselves developing a ton of feature bloat advanced MS in order to make up for their perceived numerical disadvantage compared to the federation. The Gryps conflict would mostly see the usage of moveable frame technology and the ironing out of transformable MS. You'd see marvelous machines like the Barzam come out of the conflict which ended up being used for decades after by the Federation and also would serve as a basis for the Jegan in many ways. Also before the gryps conflict you had the Titans test team working on TONS of components we'd see later enter mass production, so alot of this stuff was in the world for awhile.

Really one of the most forward thinking designs of the gryps conflict was the Palace Athene which is sorta like the first feature rich beam gun bloat machine we'd see before they'd become very popular just months later in the Neo Zeon war. The CCA era MS are less focused on feature bloat and just overall performance upgrades. UC engage has a pretty clear showing of this by having a clip of Amuro in a Rick Dijeh getting taken advantage of by Char in the Sazabi, showing that new gen MS are just better than gryps era MS, even if they are suped up. CCA era MS also continue the trend of just generally bigger sized MS which would continue until miniaturized MS would come out like the F90. In Gundam F91 the Denan series would demonstrate just how much more superior miniaturized MS would be vs their older larger counterparts
Anonymous No.64250269 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
>Why don't we have beam rifles yet?
>don't we
>don't, we
(you) don't, we do
Anonymous No.64250466 [Report] >>64255828
>>64250122
>UC engage has a pretty clear showing of this by having a clip of Amuro in a Rick Dijeh getting taken advantage of by Char in the Sazabi
Should have piloted the Dijeh SE-R (more like the Dijeh SE-X), would have slapped that faggot's mommy-complex ass
Anonymous No.64251844 [Report]
>>64249748
It kills me that Johnny Ridden was invented to explain an ace pilot in a red zaku being in an inexplicable amount of places at the same time in UC side material
Man is literally store brand Char down to being The Crimson Lightning
Anonymous No.64251981 [Report]
>>64248855
The Federation doesn't want you to know this, but all those abandoned MS just floating around in space are basically free, you can just take them. I have 12 at home.
Anonymous No.64251985 [Report]
>>64248883
Because we don't have bits, gotta get bits first.
Anonymous No.64252012 [Report] >>64252342
>>64249556
UC addresses this by having the beam weapons for MS having the capacity to store near weaponized particles in the beam weapons magazine with the MS reactor provided just enough energy to push them over the edge. Once expended the weapon would have to be returned to the ship or base facility which had the much larger reactor capable of creating the near fused particles in order to be reloaded. This is why in the original series you never see Amuro fire the Gundam's beam rifle more than 8 times before he discards it and switches to another weapon.
Anonymous No.64252342 [Report] >>64253342
>>64252012
That was before they developed exchangeable energy magazines
Anonymous No.64252502 [Report] >>64252652
>>64248863
>Beam uzi for a muslim arab
Anonymous No.64252652 [Report]
>>64252502
These niggas are the most OP redshirts, literally zero losses and their suits are more OP than the antagonists.
Anonymous No.64253309 [Report] >>64263024
>>64247763
Sandrock = Long term Guerilla Warfare
ShenLong = Terror attacks
Anonymous No.64253342 [Report]
>>64252342
I am aware, hence why I started that last sentence with in the original series, and used Amuro as the example.
Anonymous No.64253541 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
We don't have good energy storage
Anonymous No.64253565 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
Chernobyl basically cucked nuclear progress so we never got around to making miniature nuclear reactors.
Anonymous No.64255828 [Report]
>>64250466
I always forget the dijeh exists.
Weird fucking dude with it's faux monoeye
Anonymous No.64257677 [Report]
>>64222187
Too many gravitons...
Anonymous No.64258639 [Report] >>64260053
>>64249679
>After the OYW, all of the conflicts are much smaller in scale
Hate this desu, the total war backdrop is a big part of 0079's appeal to me.
Would probably be $$$ to make a whole series like that with later animation quality standards and animator wages though
Anonymous No.64259191 [Report] >>64259786 >>64260024 >>64260084 >>64276874
Of the UC timeline I've watched CCA, 08 and Unicorn
What's the next best series I should watch? I want as much fighting as possible

>>64222187
Fpbp
Anonymous No.64259293 [Report]
>>64245904
In the context of Wing, Relena isn't a complete idiot (the reborn Sanc Kingdom fielded a small army of modern mobile suits) it's that the antagonists are intentionally exacerbating conflicts for the purpose of taking power.
Anonymous No.64259786 [Report]
>>64259191
Victory is based.
Anonymous No.64260024 [Report] >>64260110
>>64259191
0079 is good shit if you don't mind some of the jank. Just make sure you watch the series instead of the compilation movies and watch it subbed.
The dub is really awful and worse yet, has an entirely different SFX track full of generic sci fi SFX instead of the classic sunrise mecha sounds.
A better dub might be out there now but I haven't seen it.
Anonymous No.64260053 [Report] >>64260092
>>64258639
I want a 12 episode 2D animated series of what MS Igloo 2 episodes 1 and 2 were about in a band of brothers style and yes, that includes the no gundams-part.
And yes, i know im never getting it, but man can dream.
I would be also fine with a series focusing on EFSF patrol squadron (A Magellan-class battleship and couple of Salamis-cruisers) having to fight off superior numbers with their Saberfishes BSG style.
Anonymous No.64260084 [Report] >>64260110 >>64260190 >>64262923
>>64259191
War in the Pocket and Stardust Memory are top tier.
Anonymous No.64260092 [Report] >>64260675
>>64260053
I'd love a twinned set of UC hard graph themed ovas ala flags/letters from iwo that are almost like in universe war movies.
Anonymous No.64260110 [Report] >>64260190 >>64262923
>>64260024
>has an entirely different SFX track
Another problem with dubs is they change the music, a lot of which is fucking fantastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD4U7moUbuc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s052YWHL_yU

>>64260084
If mecha space combat is your thing Stardust Memory is the GOAT.
Anonymous No.64260190 [Report]
>>64260084
>witp
I think I skimmed it
>stardust memory
Okay I'll give that a go, thanks

>>64260110
Yes I'm in the mood for more fighting less talking
Anonymous No.64260675 [Report] >>64261571 >>64261795
>>64260092
Slightly related, but that reminds me that I think the best format for doing a Battletech adaptation is as an in-universe multipart documentary series with all the mech combat being "historical footage."
Anonymous No.64261571 [Report]
>>64260675
Check out gundam's ms era 0099 book. It's a faux-photo documentary after the OYW. There's a version in english too.
Anonymous No.64261795 [Report] >>64263351
>>64260675
>historical
Fuck that

The 4th worst calamity to befall Battletech was the overfocus on "historical" reports in lieu of novels and actually supporting players, yknow, PLAYING THE GAME
Novels are forward-looking, Historicals and Era Reports are backward-looking, the feel is different and attracts different types of customer
Anonymous No.64262117 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
because the best weapon engineers lost.
if Japan & Germany weren't held back we'd be colonizing space now with mechs and starships.
Germany made HK with both hands tied behind their back.
Anonymous No.64262923 [Report] >>64262969
>>64260110
>Stardust Memory
>>64260084
>Stardust Memory
Now I remember watching some of this. I hated it because I felt the antics of Uraki, his specky pal, Nina and Monsha was pretty juvenile.
Well I skipped everything but the fighting and plotting and it's a much better experience.
I've caught up to where Op Stardust has just managed to wipe out the review. Pretty good fights so far.
Anonymous No.64262969 [Report] >>64263049
>>64262923
Plus it has Anavel "I hit women closed fist" Gato. Who pilots the best looking mobile armor any form of Zeon has ever fielded.
Anonymous No.64263024 [Report]
>>64253309
Yeah, I came to post this. Sandrock is clearly intended for guerilla warfare campaigns. Long term out in the battlefield doing hit and run attacks.
ShenLong is the Chinese style version of Deathscythe. Clearly intended for high intensity 1 on 1 combat.
Anonymous No.64263049 [Report] >>64263162 >>64263238
>>64262969
It also has Cima "I gas entire colonies" Garahau.
Anonymous No.64263074 [Report] >>64263088 >>64263238
Plot aside, 0083 is everything I want from my mecha series.
It looks so good in motion, and combat is solid as fuck, especially the cannon fodder stuff.
Anonymous No.64263088 [Report] >>64263129
>>64263074
0083 is massively wasted potential.
Imagine expending all that money and talent, creating some of the best Gundam combat put to film, for retarded zeekwank with unlikable characters.
Anonymous No.64263129 [Report] >>64264996
>>64263088
I dont think zeekwank was that bad in 0083, it was nowhere as bad as in Unicorn.
And I advocate for TZD.
I should download some BD rips and rewatch, the show is so screencappable with that animation quality.
Anonymous No.64263162 [Report]
>>64263049
You mean "tricked into comitting a war crime then left to take the blame by her commanding officer who skipped off to Axis"

The manga is better solely in that Cima survives in it.
Anonymous No.64263238 [Report] >>64264766
>>64263074
the animation is top tier. High budget, all hand-drawn, really good mechanical designers

>>64263049
She might be ruthless but I bet she'd be an amazing fuck.
Anonymous No.64263351 [Report] >>64264764
>>64261795
We're talking about a setting that spans 600 years with the most relevant portion of it covering 475 of those, if you want a series to introduce the broadstrokes of the setting to a larger audience it's the easiest method assuming you're not going to have hundreds of hours for an expansive narrative work.
Anonymous No.64263386 [Report] >>64263430
>>64241252
>>64242189
Are beam weapons supposed to be lasers? We're getting pretty close to having hand held high-powered laser rifles.
Anonymous No.64263430 [Report]
>>64263386
No, they are particle weapons
Anonymous No.64263606 [Report] >>64263611 >>64263612 >>64264764 >>64264773
Macross is better.
Anonymous No.64263611 [Report] >>64263627
>>64263606
if you are gay
Anonymous No.64263612 [Report] >>64263627
>>64263606
Idol shit is a cancer.
Anonymous No.64263627 [Report] >>64266302 >>64268318
>>64263611
>>64263612
Sorry but a morphing F-14 is way cooler than edgy kids.
Anonymous No.64264373 [Report] >>64264758
>>64222169 (OP)
Im pretty sure the problem right now is a portable power source. I know us brits have a fuckin Laser Air Defence Weapon thats cheap as fuck to actually fire, but its only supposed to target drones and missiles so it doesnt actually need that much power. Whereas a beam rifle would need to be powerful enough to melt tank armour and have enough energy to fire more than once.

Its the battery problem, same as why renewable energy isnt a great option right now cause of power storage. Also apparently the japanese have railguns that dont break their barrels immediately, so the arms race in that regard is gonna get funny.
Anonymous No.64264758 [Report]
>>64264373
>us brits have
Iirc it's a Raytheon weapon, Ahmed
>its only supposed to target drones and missiles so it doesnt actually need that much power.
There's also a big difference in disabling a drone's sensors, which is what Dragon Fire probably does, and killing it; and how long it takes to lase it
The Americans already deploy drone killer lasers on half a dozen Burkes and are working up to a laser that can vapourise drones in the blink of an eye, because with that power level it could also kill antiship missiles
Might be a couple of decades away however
>Its the battery problem
It's power generation. Even a Burke II doesn't have enough power to run that
>the japanese have railguns that dont break their barrels
Nah
They're probably just prototyping what the USN already did
Anonymous No.64264764 [Report] >>64272179
>>64263606
Sing a song of sixpence to the likes of ISIS, they'll still rape you and cut off your head
Albeit perhaps with a sappy love song as soundtrack

>>64263351
Lucas didn't need to tell us about the Old Republic or actually reveal the Clone Wars to make A New Hope work
Begin with the 4th Succession War as God intended, save the rest for flashback sequences or prequels
Anonymous No.64264766 [Report] >>64265019 >>64265300
>>64263238
>I bet she'd be an amazing fuck
>sinister bitch plotting galaxy warcrimes from a siberian tiger belt while letting her crew of beefcakes run around in ripped vests
Indeed
I will assrape her bent over her own throne and tiger pelt in front of her own crew, and she will secretly love it
Anonymous No.64264773 [Report]
>>64263606
Anonymous No.64264996 [Report] >>64265517
>>64263129
>unicorn
Why did you fucking remind me
Anonymous No.64265019 [Report] >>64265399
>>64264766
She's plotting to stop the terrorist warcrimes in secret accord with the Earth government, it might actually have worked if the retard in the Gundam didn't go full retard and then get cucked by the dumb bitch of a "love interest".

Do none of you in the thread actually know the (shit) series you're talking about?
Anonymous No.64265054 [Report] >>64265058 >>64265300
>>64249539
Yeah, Sandrock was supposed to be the commander unit. Remember the ep, where nobody listens to him and go do their individual shit.
Funny as heck.
Anonymous No.64265058 [Report]
>>64265054
Quatre was a richboy qt white blonde arab with his own pocket terrorist corps
Anonymous No.64265155 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
I don't give a fuck about energy weapons or mechs, UNLESS it's a missile boat on legs. Real shit.
Anonymous No.64265300 [Report]
>>64264766
>her crew of beefcakes run around in ripped vests
You know every one of those dudes is in chastity

>>64265054
>Command/control specialist unit
>Let's give it melee weapons
You sure that's wise? Wouldn't long-range armament make more sense?
>Okay fine, we'll give it one dinky little missile in each shoulder.
Anonymous No.64265399 [Report] >>64265666 >>64266142 >>64266292
>>64265019
>Do none of you in the thread actually know the (shit) series you're talking about?
No that's on me, I was only up to Gato firing off the nuke "bazooka"

>She's plotting to stop the terrorist warcrimes in secret accord with the Earth government
Spoiler alert, asshole

Nah fortunately I'm thick as pigshit and couldn't understand what you're saying. Her sudden betrayal was satisfying.
Now I want to make sensual romantic ass love to her on her tiger skin pelt while her crew watch (for whom refreshments will be provided. RSVP.)

I just realised one great thing about Stardust over the other UC series: none of that metaphysical newtype bullshit. I like it.

Now none of you cunts tell me what happens next. I'm only up to the Solar System's powering up.
Anonymous No.64265517 [Report] >>64265687
>>64264996
I liked Unicorn, though I was disappointed that Mineva did not inherit her dad's height. Would have been funny(and hot)to see her towering over her love interest. Also Marida deserved better.
Anonymous No.64265666 [Report] >>64265687
>>64265399
It's really funny that 0083 gets the "ah, finally, no newtypes!" response while having the worst fucking main cast in the whole franchise.
They really said okay, no newtypes, here's your cuckold story lol
Anonymous No.64265687 [Report] >>64266142
>>64265517
>I liked Unicorn
So did I
>though I was disappointed that Mineva did not inherit her dad's height
Japs are short so it's realistic but yeah
>Also Marida deserved better
>implied BDSM / snuff whore turned Zeigger
She went out pretty well all said. Even got a few last words in.
It was the Zeon Remnants who died like bitches after hiding and waiting for so long

>>64265666
>worst fucking main cast in the whole franchise.
Begone Satan, that title belongs to SEED
>here's your cuckold story lol
I fully expected something like that from Nina, frankly
And it's kind of like reverse Ms08 and stripped of sappy sentimentality

Lucette bestgirl
Anonymous No.64266142 [Report] >>64266489 >>64266680
>>64265687
The best girl in Gundam is the unnammed momma briefly seen in the first episode of X while she's bitching out her kid for not knowing the difference between AP and HE anti-materiel ammunition.

>>64265399
>Now none of you cunts tell me what happens next
Hoo boy, it's gonna be fun.
Anonymous No.64266292 [Report] >>64266360
>>64265399
>none of that metaphysical newtype bullshit. I like it.
Eh, I like the Newtype stuff to a degree . It only really jumps the shark in ZZ but a lot of things get out of hand in ZZ in general.
Even CCA isn't that bad about it.
No idea about unicorn though, I never watched it nor have much desire to.
It's not directed by Tomino is it? Did he do anything with it at all or was he fully stuck in making the spinoffs at that point.
Anonymous No.64266302 [Report] >>64266346
>>64263627
And unfortunately that's the where the coolness ends.
Admitted cool as it is.
I'll freely admit they do the transforming robot gimmick WAY better than Gundam ever did
Anonymous No.64266346 [Report] >>64266411
>>64266302
Well yeah, the transforming fighters is the whole point of Macross, while Gundams generally don't transform.

Speaking of good mecha combat, Macross Plus is excellent. Watch the OVA then switch to the movie when the Sharon Apple concert happens. The movie cut a lot of the early content, which happens to include a lot of action scenes. However, it also re-animated the ending. Plot is unchanged but the animation in the movie ending is a lot better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX-xKAPPGcI

The OG Macross has some pretty cool space battles too, though the really impressive episodes are few and far between.
Anonymous No.64266360 [Report] >>64266448 >>64266697
>>64266292
>I like the Newtype stuff to a degree
I don't mind the concept but i couldn’t give a toss for the obligatory Jap animistic spirituality
Which is my only gripes with the endings of CCA and Unicorn

Unicorn is slick in general. The way the MC gets from place to place is cheesy in hindsight but on first watch I was giggling and on the edge of my seat. The combat is super cool and it's obvious from the number of different models shown that they really pushed the boat out and decided to turn the fanservice up to 11. There was a lot of military wank which dilutes the teen drama CONSIDERABLY and all sides sort of get their soapbox so it's a tad more nuanced. Once again the resolution of course was a bit heavy on the Newtype psycommuwhatthefuck but it's not quite as bad as
>the Power Of Love and Amuro lifted Axis away from Earth*
Or
>Lyn Minmay's epic throating skills converted the enemy and saved all of humanity
so I'll take it

*a CCA edit that eliminates Quess and Hathaway and simply has Axis saved by Amuro and hundreds of Feddie suits would be absolute perfect
Anonymous No.64266411 [Report] >>64266432
>>64266346
>Gundams generally don't transform
There's quite a few more transforming MS that aren't MA than you'd expect if you're unfamiliar.
MA get a free pass because they're supposed to be weird over the top gimmick monsters
Anonymous No.64266432 [Report] >>64266460
>>64266411
I'm aware. My point is that "transformation" is the literal point of Macross, while it's just a random side feature that some mobile suits and mobile armors have. And some of those in Gundam seem to have been inspired by Macross, like the Airmaster.
Anonymous No.64266448 [Report] >>64266489
>>64266360
I feel like the axis shock and the whole psychoframe and whatever was up with the T thing was a bit cheesy but I take it Tomino painted himself into a corner here with the whole "newtypes, despite their understanding aren't saving humanity and really aren't that transcendent, but may in fact be making things worse" angle he had going so he wanted a "hope springs eternal" wrap up.
As trilogies go, classic UC is kind of a mess and CCA was certainly a way to give it some kind of finality
Anonymous No.64266460 [Report] >>64266464
>>64266432
No bones about the inspiration. I'm pretty sure even Zeta was just (badly) aping macross in that regard.
I've never heard of airmaster as I frequently forget X to my own detriment. It definitely does the looking like an airplane thing a lot better than most MS.
That one that turns into a beamrotor helicopter in Victory is pretty sick too but that might just be my bias talking as I like beam rotors
Anonymous No.64266464 [Report]
>>64266460
Shit wrong image
Anonymous No.64266489 [Report] >>64266534
>>64266448
>T thing
Is a piece of psycoframe which explains how Chan got Force Aim skillz and Force Ghosted a bit instead of dying like every other poor bitch on the field. Now THAT'S painting into a corner except Tomino might not even have noticed it:
>all it takes to develop battlefield-significant latent psy talent is brief exposure to manufactured psycommu material, not Cybernewtype brainwashing

Japs are huge animists and spiritualists despite being practically agnostic in ordinary life so from Tomino to Miyazaki to Shinkai, anime always has a bit of that in it. Anime also grapples with nihilism in a clumsy way while trying to incorporate bang bang pew pew and teenage puppy love drama, so they have a slew of disparate themes and often struggle to pull it together

>>64266142
>The best girl in Gundam is
Atra Mixta, cause sometimes all you need is a tradwife to have babies with

okay I've finished Stardust Memory
plot is great, characters meh
Gato's kinda based NGL
ending was cute
>three weeks from now I will be harvesting my crops
but he really should have just shot the bitch
Anonymous No.64266534 [Report]
>>64266489
Man I completely forgot all of that. Too focused on the boys of the hour and their robots I suppose.
Anonymous No.64266680 [Report]
>>64266142
WRONG
the best gundam girl I clearly Fa Yuiri
Anonymous No.64266697 [Report] >>64267330 >>64269407
>>64266360
Unicorn had god tier animation and design work but anything related to Audrey or Banager is dogshit.
Not even going into the newtype magic bullshit that happens at the end but Banager is a whiny little bitch who unlike all the other gundam protags never changes or grows, he just moralfags harder untill he wins.
Take the torrington battle, if some chick in a mobile armour was destroying a city full of civilians, do you think that any previous MC would hesitate to pull the trigger? NO, of that was Amuro or Kamille in the unicorn she would have been dead meat so fucking fast
Anonymous No.64266768 [Report]
>>64223318
Kys faggot
Anonymous No.64267330 [Report] >>64267344
>>64266697
>never changes or grows, he just moralfags harder untill he wins
God, he's one of THOSE.
Is he the warning shot kid or was that the fag from sneed?
Anonymous No.64267344 [Report] >>64267358
>>64267330
Kira is similar to Banager except he's more hypocritical abouth his beliefs and people lick his balls for it while admittedly Banager does get shit on a lot
Anonymous No.64267358 [Report]
>>64267344
Alright. Cpuld be worse I suppose
But does he suffer and get humbled?
Where on the suffering and humbling scale is he from Judau to Kamille?
Anonymous No.64268318 [Report]
>>64263627
Gerwalk is so silly.
Very charming looking
Parsley rosemary thyme No.64269407 [Report] >>64269767 >>64269895
>>64266697
>Banager is a whiny little bitch who unlike all the other gundam protags
I felt he was par for the course. Typical shonen protag dramatics.

IBO's Orga and Mikazuki actually felt more real compared to the protags in say SEED and even Amuro
>fuck feddie idealism and Erf and the souls weighed down by gravity and the greater good, I WANNA LIVE

>he just moralfags harder untill he wins
Hm
Gotta check his kill score

>if some chick in a mobile armour was destroying a city full of civilians, do you think that any previous MC would hesitate to pull the trigger? NO, of that was Amuro or Kamille in the unicorn she would have been dead meat so fucking fast
This is true however even Amuro tried to disable Quess rather than slot her
And iirc Kamille Bidan essentially emo'd so hard that WAR IS LE BAD?! that he literally vegetated
Anonymous No.64269438 [Report]
>>64222169 (OP)
You can buy a handheld laser that can cut through plywood.
Anonymous No.64269767 [Report] >>64270018
>>64269407
>IBO's Orga and Mikazuki actually felt more real
They literally just bumblefuck around pointlessly until the powers that be get annoyed by them and wipe them out.
Gundam bats 1000 for people wanting "gundam but like... serious!" getting tricked into watching meaningless garbage when the stuff with space psychics have always been the better series.
Anonymous No.64269895 [Report] >>64271922
>>64269407
>And iirc Kamille Bidan essentially emo'd so hard that WAR IS LE BAD?! that he literally vegetated
Are you retarded?
The Man from Jupiter gave him a random newtype brainrape as he died (from Kamille intentionally killing him).
Anonymous No.64270018 [Report] >>64270221 >>64271877
>>64269767
>shonen newtype moralfagging
>semi adult political machinations
Which way, anime man?
IBO gives a glimpse of the political, underworld and strategic military manoeuvring that goes on behind the scenes of the bang bang pew pew, the stuff on which revolutions and nations are built. It looks boring but Orga was doing a lot of alliance building, basically. It just didn't work out his way, although notably he shattered the status quo world order so hard that he posthumously achieved his objectives.

Usually the politics seen in Gundam is more of the "secret weapon!" and "colony drop!" types. There is less of this sort of thing, but that doesn't mean they were just screwing around.
Anonymous No.64270221 [Report] >>64272287
>>64270018
>IBO gives a glimpse
Every series since ZETA is inundated by glowing behind the scenes scheming though
Anonymous No.64271877 [Report] >>64272179 >>64272287
>>64270018
People are so scared of psychics in their scifi that they skip all the good ones and run over to the 6/10 series instead.
Anonymous No.64271922 [Report]
>>64269895
With a suika bar, no less!
Anonymous No.64272179 [Report] >>64272472
>>64264764
Lucas wasn't working with a setting that contained multiple factions participating in multiple simultaneous wars.

>>64271877
Psychics usually wind up as plot tumors in sci-fi and Newtypes in particular get a massive amount of wank both in-universe and among the fandom despite being quite shit.
Anonymous No.64272201 [Report]
>Beam rifle
What benefit would light have from spinning
Anonymous No.64272287 [Report] >>64272472 >>64273893 >>64275152
>>64270221
Yes but like I said, mostly revolving around secret weapons. Gundam usually sees factions plotting around the use of these weapons. Their clashes tend to focus on the use of these weapons. Partly because the greater aims of the organisations are already clear-cut, Zeon vs Federation.

IBO was somewhat unique in that we see significant plotting explicitly on the manipulation of alliances, legislation, and public reputation.

>>64271877
Psychic themes in SF is like steampunk or electricity in fantasy, it eventually grows to crowd out everything else.
Anonymous No.64272472 [Report] >>64272764
>>64272179
>>64272287
Their shows are still all the best ones. It's not about the newtypes, it's about the ones with them clearly being a cut above the endless AMV fodder that is the rest of the franchise.
I mean 0083 and IBO? Cmon man, those series sucked ass. The endings are jokes. You could convince me easily that they wrote them wrongly on purpose, as a funny prank on the audience.
Anonymous No.64272764 [Report]
>>64272472
>0083 and IBO are ass
Thank you for advertising your dogshit opinion
Anonymous No.64273893 [Report] >>64275152
>>64272287
>mostly revolving around secret weapons.
This is absolutely true. Nearly every Gundam title has at least one super special prototype Gundam, often more than one. Even when the Gundams are revealed to be serial production models the main characters tend to have unique ones, or customs. For example in Gundam X most of the Gundams the protagonists use (X, Airmaster, Leopard) are revealed in the plot to have been production models, yet only one of each appears in the show. And even then there is a tendency for the main cast's mobile suits to get upgraded as a series progresses.
Anonymous No.64275152 [Report] >>64275227
>>64272287
>>64273893
>revolving around
The only series where the plot specifically revolves around the gundam machine itself are what? GWitch, Gqux and unicorn maybe
Anonymous No.64275227 [Report] >>64275255 >>64276945
>>64275152
Wing is focused Wing Zero, Deathscythe, Heavyarms, Sandrock, and Shenlong. You can throw the Tallgeese in there too, though it's not a Gundam. X is focused on..well...it's right there in the title, the X and its satellite cannon. Leopard and Airmaster are there for the supporting cast, and the antagonists have the Virsago and Ashtaron. F91 is self-explanatory. Stardust Memory has the GP01, GP02A, and Dendrobium, not to mention Zion's Neue Ziel mobile armor... War in the Pocket revolves around the new prototype
Anonymous No.64275255 [Report] >>64275425 >>64276945
>>64275227
Okay but how do those suits actually affect the story?
0083 is the zeta prequels and is about the corruption of the federation and the rise of the titans
War in the pocket is war from an innocent child's pov etc.

Point being is that the machines are there to add flair and are more often than not replaced by the MC with little actual emotional connection to them
Anonymous No.64275425 [Report] >>64275511
>>64275255
>Okay but how do those suits actually affect the story?
You want me to give plot summaries of those shows?

>Point being is that the machines are there to add flair
It's more than that. They're the whole point of the show. Mobile. Suit. Gundam. It's more accurate to say the plot supports the Gundams rather than the other way around. The whole point is to watch giant robots kick ass. Now I don't say that to denigrate the rest of it. Gundam has a lot of great writing, meaningful characters, wonderful music, and poignant political and social commentary too. Some of the titles have technically amazing animation. But make no mistake, that's all icing on the cake.
Anonymous No.64275511 [Report] >>64276700 >>64276873 >>64276945
>>64275425
>the whole point is to watch giant robots kick ass
Anonymous No.64276700 [Report] >>64276709 >>64276865 >>64276892
>>64275511
The point of the series is to sell model kits
Anonymous No.64276709 [Report]
>>64276700
That's wrong. 0079 was made to sell toys, model kits came as an afterthought.
Anonymous No.64276865 [Report]
>>64276700
Gunplay didn't get big until the 90's
Anonymous No.64276873 [Report] >>64276915
>>64275511
Yes anon, that is the point. Make the robots look cool so people consoom the products.

>>but but but it has war is bad themes!
Yeah, OFC it does. And the writing is honestly good like I just said. But if you want epic "war is bad" themes you can get far better if you don't limit your watching to the giant robot fantasy franchises.
Anonymous No.64276874 [Report] >>64276945
>>64259191
>watching cca without watching 0079, zeta and zz
why would you do this
Anonymous No.64276892 [Report]
>>64276700
The purpose behind the overwhelming majority of anime is marketing. Usually the main goal is to sell manga. Sometimes it's video games and toys. That doesn't mean it's bad.
Anonymous No.64276915 [Report] >>64276927
>>64276873
>epic "war is bad" themes
that isn't even close to what 0079 is about
0079 is about one specific war
Anonymous No.64276917 [Report] >>64280489
>>64247815
>gigantic fucking capes on a robot
At leas they should have made it as the camouflage coverings you see on MBT's & IFV's. This is just too silly.
Anonymous No.64276927 [Report] >>64276934
>>64276915
Why are you hyperfocused on 0079 when the thread you are replying to is talking about the Gundam media franchise as a whole?
Anonymous No.64276934 [Report] >>64276988 >>64277058
>>64276927
because the entirety of gundam is extremely varied and has no coherent themes beyond selling models
IBO was written by Okada Mari for fuck's sake.
Anonymous No.64276945 [Report] >>64277073
>>64275227
And SEED revolves around the five prototypes

In Unicorn there are two macguffins, primarily the La+ Box is the main macguffin. And since the Unicorn is the key to the Box, the Gundam is also fundamental to the plot.
But because of the nature of the La+ secret the plot does heavily go into the politics of the entire war, which produces some shifting alliances amongst the pilots. So Unicorn has more politics than the average Gundam.

>>64275255
>Okay but how do those suits actually affect the story?
They tend to be the macguffins of the story i.e. good guys and bad guys are out to acquire / sabotage / test / etc these suits. They ARE the specific objective. Therefore we mostly see the manipulations and plotting of the people in relation to these weapons, rather than their overall views and goals in relation to the war. Get it?

>0083 is the zeta prequels and is about the corruption of the federation and the rise of the titans
It's mainly about the weapons used. It doesn't change or reveal more of the nature of the conflict much. Neither side needs to convince anybody or win support from anybody.

>>64275511
Lol
There's a saying in business marketing which applies here. Gundam markets the "war is LE BAD" plot, sells the episodes, and makes money on the gunpla.

>>64276874
Because it's the first Gundam and in fact the first anime product I'd ever seen. A friend knew I was into Battletech, and when the CCA movie hit DVD just gave it to me for a gift saying "hey I know you like mecha and this is a mecha movie so check it out". We thought it was standalone.
It's pretty good even so I must say.
Anonymous No.64276988 [Report] >>64277072
>>64276934
>because the entirety of gundam is extremely varied
Yes, so why are you talking about 0079?

>and has no coherent themes beyond selling models
That was my point. Every show has some new unique Gundam (or five) for people to buy models of. The war themes aren't the point. The Gundams--and the products you can buy which are based on them--are.
Anonymous No.64277058 [Report] >>64277066
>>64276934
>no coherent themes
I get your point with the gunpla but this is just wrong
Anonymous No.64277066 [Report] >>64277079
>>64277058
please briefly draw a coherent thematic connection between 0079, IBO and Build Fighters.
Anonymous No.64277072 [Report] >>64277301
>>64276988
But my point is distinct from yours.
I am saying that there are very few to no coherent ideas between the different series, so as a whole Gundam is thematically incoherent.
But that does not mean that each individual series doesn't make a point.
Anonymous No.64277073 [Report]
>>64276945
>macguffins of the story

Again, aside from some of the series where the gundams play an active role in the plot this just isn't the case.


0079's story was about the war. Sure zeon prioritised destroying the gundam in the fist third but they very quickly developed their own gundam equivalents and at that point Amuro was beyond even the gundam in his abilities

Zeta is even more of the case, the plot begins when Kamille steals the MK2 but it quickly gets sidelined by the rest of the Gryps war. By the end nobody is going "WE GOTTA CAPTURE THE ZETA BECAUSE XY"


0083 plot is about the gundams sort of but more about the nuke the Feddies illegally installed on one. Both mainline gundam suits get wrecked and the plot continues because again, it isn't about the gundams
Anonymous No.64277079 [Report] >>64279139
>>64277066
>0079 and IBO
War=bad
Child soldiers=bad
Blind fanaticism and idealism=bad
Uncaring and corrupt government=bad


Uncaring and corrupt government Vs space rebels
Build fighters I'll give you but only because it's not a story about gundams, but gunpla
Anonymous No.64277301 [Report] >>64277315 >>64277458
>>64277072
>are very few to no coherent ideas between the different series, so as a whole Gundam is thematically incoherent.
You'll get no argument from me about that. Even if we ignore the obvious outliers like SD and G there is still very little thematic consistency. The only real consistency is cool giant robots fighting.
Anonymous No.64277315 [Report] >>64277358
>>64277301
>But that does not mean that each individual series doesn't make a point.
Anonymous No.64277358 [Report]
>>64277315
Of course each series still makes a point. That point happens to be less important than selling merch via cool robot action though.
Anonymous No.64277458 [Report] >>64277669
>>64277301
What the fuck are you talking about?

The overarching theme of 90% of gundam is WAR=BAD


this isn't particularly hard to understand
Anonymous No.64277669 [Report] >>64277674 >>64280528
>>64277458
No, the overarching theme of Gundam is to sell toys.
Anonymous No.64277674 [Report]
>>64277669
No, that's the purpose of the mecha designs in the show, the themes are a another thing
Anonymous No.64279139 [Report] >>64279491
>>64277079
How corrupt is the EF in 0079?
Even in zeta and ZZ they're just mostly well meaning but overstreched, out of touch and weakened by subversion.
The EF is just as bad shit is mostly a post tomino zeek apologist narrative
Anonymous No.64279491 [Report]
>>64279139
They're as corrupt as any other political system.

The Feds are an example of a souless bureaucratic liberal order which has long since stopped actually caring about anything but maintaining the status quo.
Anonymous No.64280489 [Report] >>64283359
>>64276917
Capes on robots is the coolest shit ever. That we don't do it is actually a condemnation of us, not the other way around.
Anonymous No.64280528 [Report] >>64280831 >>64283397
>>64277669
oh shut up

>>64222169 (OP)
What Gundam space combat concepts are actually plausible?
I liked the Solar System (kek) even though it's probably more efficient if used to power a superlaser than as a giant mirror array
Anonymous No.64280686 [Report]
Y'all niggas need Xabungle
Anonymous No.64280831 [Report] >>64281913
>>64280528
Gundam was pretty heavily based on existing concepts, thought many products of their time. The colonies are based on existing scientific designs, ambac is real, even the reentry body blanket the gundam whips out was loosely based on soft reentry bags the soviets had tested.
Anonymous No.64281913 [Report] >>64283255
>>64280831
iirc what became minovsky interference was originally nuclear blackout as there was going to be a lot more usage of nuclear weapons since Tomino was taking a lot from starship troopers.
By anime standards, there already is a lot of usage and mention of nuclear weapons in the finished product, especially for the time.
Anonymous No.64283255 [Report] >>64283307 >>64283782
>>64281913
IIRC the one week war had heavy use of nukes from both sides before the Antarctic treaty banned them

The Zaku IIC was specifically made with nuclear warfare in mind
Anonymous No.64283307 [Report]
>>64283255
Yeah, it was a bit balsy for 1979 Japan to just starkly begin your children's robot anime with a narration talking about half (more than half) of humanity dying in a predominantly nuclear holocaust.
A nuclear missile also came up in the battle gor Odessa.
Anonymous No.64283359 [Report]
>>64280489
Indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3HQOEMs4uE
Anonymous No.64283397 [Report] >>64283742 >>64285618
>>64280528
>What Gundam space combat concepts are actually plausible?
Most if you're not too strict. I wouldn't be too strict either, because people trying to predict the future by just extending the current trends are always wrong.

Minovsky particles are the only real "magic" in the gundam franchise, but even that is just an extension of 20th century science trends. They're even used tactically the way we use equivalent but more primitive tech.

Self-contained suits being used to fight in radioactive or hazardous environments is plausible, maybe not the scale of a mobile suit. Also standardizes larger caliber weapons since humans are a bottleneck. It also makes something like energy weapons more feasible since you don't have to miniaturize the power requirements as much.

Mecha memes aside, if you could get a mech to move like a bipedal animal, it would be OP. We're nowhere near that, but it's not implausible.

Contrary to popular fiction, space colonies are 100x more plausible than terraforming planets on a cost ratio. The ones in gundam are based on a theorized plausible layout.

I'm ambivalent about the mechs in space part. The power and design requirements to get what we see mechs do in space seem out of scale with the rest of the series. The beam saber also seems implausible in the same time scale, and also pointless since they can scatter and disperse beams over a wide area. The mechs that hover and move quickly and be very agile also seem out of step with the other tech on the ground.
Anonymous No.64283440 [Report] >>64283536 >>64283547
One thing that's always puzzled me about the Gundam universe: Mobile Suits are usually the same approximate size. On the other hand, Mobile Armors exist in various sizes and in various other configurations. I get that the shows are supposed to be about "Gundams" but it's odd to me there are no small Mobile Armors, and so little size variation amongst Mobile Suits.
Anonymous No.64283536 [Report] >>64283781
>>64283440
Proper gundams range in size more than you'd expect and just general mobile suits are all across the board from monsters like The O to petite little things like the turn A's WaD.
Of course scaling differs between different settings so you mileage may vary.

As for mobile armors it's kind of a messy catch all, with the main common attributes being big, heavily armed and nonhumanoid but there's definitely MS that could be called MA and MA thast could be argued to be MS. It's really more of a role thing and not very fleshed out.


There's also a much neglected class for smaller, often but not only civilian machines that pops up every now and then called junior or petite MS. They're pretty much just a part of the background and if they do fight they get bodied hard.
This is a shame desu. There's definitely space at the table for them.
Anonymous No.64283547 [Report] >>64283781 >>64283859 >>64284126 >>64284251
>>64283440
Ye, I'm guessing that's just as small as they can be considering they need fusion reactors, and weapons graded to actually hurt other mobile suits. But they are too chonky, and realistically they should have gotten smaller after the Zaku because agility is by far their best defense on screen.
Anonymous No.64283742 [Report]
>>64283397
Despite beam sabers being called that they seem to behave more like a plasma cutter or cutting torch, their effect on target seems very different than the ranged beam weapons.
Anonymous No.64283781 [Report] >>64283927 >>64284126 >>64285823
>>64283536
There are definitely exceptions. I can't recall the name of it but there was an MS in X which had I-field generators and was more than twice the size of the gundams though it was humanoid in appearance. That would certainly blur the line between MS and MA. Exceptions exist. But the general trend seems to be that MS are humanoid, and the moment when people want to build something bigger they tend to get rid of the humanoid shape. And for whatever reason MS-sized but non-humanoid vehicles are rare.

>>64283547
That could explain why small mobile suits are so rare--there's a certain minimum size required for the Minkovsky reactor.

>and weapons graded to actually hurt other mobile suits
I'd imagine there are lots of combat roles where smaller vehicles which didn't need to fight other heavy armor would be useful. For example scout vehicles, HMMV's, IFVs are still useful even if they can't go toe to toe with a MBT.
Anonymous No.64283782 [Report]
>>64283255
>Zaku IIC
Clantech Zakus?!?!
Anonymous No.64283859 [Report] >>64283927 >>64284249
>>64283547
F91 touches on this and even directly addresses the MS bloat through the UC.
No idea why this chart doesn't include Nu or ZZ. They're big bitches as well
Anonymous No.64283927 [Report] >>64284126
>>64283781
>minimum size required for the Minkovsky reactor
It's pure supposition, just the best I can do. Agreed on smaller vehicles. A recon mobile suit with a jetpack and a big anti-vehicle rifle/machinegun/bombs would be strategically better. With their tech I assume even a big battery recharged by a support vehicle with a minovsky reactor could power it for short terms. I could accept in the One Year War, the Zaku surprised the federation so much they had to rush out an equivalent and outproduce them, and there was no time/resources for anything else.

After that it's a stretch to explain. I could suppose the overperformance of prototypes lead to an arms race and component/capability creep, demanding bigger reactors, more armor, etc where the next model keeps making everything obsolete. There's also the newtype phenomenon where you get huge returns maximizing individual pilot skill. Combine that with the goofy politics of the Titan-led federation and neo-zeon splurging on wonder weapons, and maybe we have the skeleton of an explanation.

>>64283859
>F91 touches on this and even directly addresses the MS bloat through the UC.
I'll look it up thx
Anonymous No.64284126 [Report] >>64284156 >>64284213 >>64285406
>>64283547
>agility is by far their best defense on screen
Gundam plays funny with that, with bigger suits=stronger reactors=more thrusters sometimes meaning bigger suits are actually faster than smaller ones. I dunno about that math, but some of the gigantic suits that pop up are completely covered in verniers and can really get going. The O is noted for being an absolute monster largely just because they matched its size and thrust well and it's enormous, heavily armored, and crazy fast. No gimmicks, just good design.
>>64283781
Petite mobile suits don't show up often, mostly as construction mechs, and it's generally implied they're woefully undergunned to fight a mobile suit.
>>64283927
>support vehicle with a minovsky reactor could power it for short terms
They're not usually minovsky reactors, just general scifi nuclear reactors. The carrier vessels have minovsky and that's why they can hover in atmosphere. It does show up that you can bump up a reactors performance but it seems to require a constant connection.
Anonymous No.64284156 [Report]
>>64284126
All fusion reactors in UC use the Minovsky process and as such are minovsky reactors. What you are thinking of is the minovsky flight system, that took until late UC until a version small enough to fit in a mobile suit was produced.
Anonymous No.64284213 [Report] >>64284237
>>64284126
Ye, it's one reason I think it's the reactors. The power creep/arms race with mobile suits made sense for them to get bigger, especially in space and with newtype pilots. In a conventional fight mobile suits just crushed everything. But I still think smaller mobile suits were underdeveloped. I don't recall seeing what comparable power sources were available to them at the time, but anything not so fucking huge would have been better for lots of other roles.
Anonymous No.64284237 [Report]
>>64284213
You need to check out the later UC series. They do what you're talking about, the in universe engineers and designers all came to the conclusion that you aren't ever going to get a mobile suit heavily armored enough to be able to tank a beam weapon hit, so they go in the opposite direction by making mobile suits as small and fast as possible without compromising their firepower. Look up the stats and the Victory is something like 5 or 8 meters shorter than the original RX78.
Anonymous No.64284249 [Report]
>>64283859
Shit I'm retarded nu is right there
Anonymous No.64284251 [Report] >>64285573 >>64285618
>>64283547
They do. Most gundam happens in basically a single decade. So design is just how much cool shit can we stick onto the basic idea. When you have an actual gap in time. You get F91 which discusses how major advances in tech have allowed for smaller suits being just as capable.
The increased size within the main decade is commonly down to defensive gear like iField generators, and beam weapons. Basically the zaku 2 is a walking tank. The gundam is an extremely expensive prototype walking tank with a battleships energy canon. Mobile suits chases the energy required to also wield energy weapons without the gundams cost. And so got bigger. Then as energy weapons become ubiquitous the only defense again them iFields become popular and that takes even more power. Like compare WW2 destroyers to modern destroyers. An Arleigh burke is almost the size of WW2 cruiser. But then we get a big 30 year gap and now mobile suits are smaller than a mobile armor with twice the capabilities.
Anonymous No.64285406 [Report] >>64285439 >>64285499
>>64284126
Part of what made The O so beefy was needing to overcome Jupiter's gravitational pull or something.
So in the earth sphere it's overkill.
Very cool looking either way, I like the paptimus design language you see in it and the Hambrabi
What's the deal with Jovians anyway?
I know they're prominent later but I don't really know anything about them
Anonymous No.64285439 [Report] >>64285593
>>64285406
They run the helium 3 infrastructure that the earth sphere depends on to keep all it's fusion reactors running.
Anonymous No.64285499 [Report] >>64285593
>>64285406
>What's the deal with the Jovians
((they)) were the ones actually causing most of the bullshit happening post-zeta, culminating with the Jupiter empire
Anonymous No.64285573 [Report] >>64285618
>>64284251
>Like compare WW2 destroyers to modern destroyers. An Arleigh burke is almost the size of WW2 cruiser
That was sort of my point earlier in the thread. Yeah, power creep results in modern "destroyers" being much bigger and more capable than those from several decades ago. However, vessels smaller than destroyers are still useful. I feel like Gundam did a good job modeling the destroyers but it feels like they ignored the patrol boats and torpedo vessels.
Anonymous No.64285593 [Report] >>64285705 >>64285768
>>64285499
>>64285439
I guess I phrased that poorly. I know the broad strokes and what you can learn from Zeta, I meant it more in a "Why are they like this?" way.
Like from what I know they're the closest thing I had to an unambiguous evil/edgelord faction and have some kind of brutal dystopian society or whatever.
Also were they subverting Anaheim or were they just two separate groups of (((schemers)))?
Anonymous No.64285618 [Report]
>>64284251
>An Arleigh burke is almost the size of WW2 cruiser
it's firmly in cruiser territory.

>>64285573
>power creep
not really "power creep" per se, rather that new technology makes ships more capable but also heavier and sometimes bigger.
funniest example being that HMS Victory, a battleship, weighs the same as a WW2 Battle class destroyer

>>64283397
>Minovsky particles are the only real "magic"
well, that and Newtype powers
we all know the only reason for Minovsky is to negate radar and make manual aiming and robot-sized lightsabers useful in space

>get a mech to move like a bipedal animal, it would be OP. We're nowhere near that
well, there was that recent Chinese robot race. I know; only 500m and over flat ground, but it's "near that" I'd say

>space colonies
possibly my favourite part about Gundam

>seem out of step with the other tech on the ground
they do have my sympathies, it's very difficult for SF to be made consistent down to the individual level like that
Anonymous No.64285705 [Report] >>64285709 >>64285721
>>64285593
Not sure but the deal with Anaheim in early and mid UC is they're your classic war profiteering arms manufacturer that Hollywood tries to paint all arms manufacturers as. They play both sides against each other to create conflict, and as such, more demand for their products to make line go up.
Anonymous No.64285709 [Report]
>>64285705
Oh and post OYW Anaheim absorbed a lot of Zeon's MS firm's lime Zeonic and Zimmad, that's why they produce a lot of mono eye designs, because a good number of their employees are former zeeks.
Anonymous No.64285721 [Report] >>64285734
>>64285705
Also literal moonjews if you go off the series bible.
Anonymous No.64285734 [Report] >>64285800 >>64285868 >>64286264
>>64285721
Unicorn kind of retconned that didn't it? At the very least Anaheim started out as a front for the Vist Foundation. Also possibly the coolest Gundam name (Cardius Vist)wasted on a character that dies in the first episode.
Anonymous No.64285768 [Report]
>>64285593
>why are they like this
Spaceniggers gonna spacenig
Anonymous No.64285800 [Report] >>64285831 >>64285876
>>64285734
I mean probably, that kind of seems like something they'd leave out. Not every anime can be angel cop.
But seriously, I don't really know anything about unicorn beyond a handful of the characters. It always seemed unappealing but my prejudice might be baseless. How CG heavy is it?
Anonymous No.64285823 [Report] >>64285887
>>64283781
>was an MS in X which had I-field generators and was more than twice the size of the gundams
NRX-010 Gable: head height 28m and chonky as fuck.
Anonymous No.64285831 [Report] >>64285876 >>64286186 >>64287365
>>64285800
Iirc unicorn has some cg shots but as a whole it's probably the best animated UC show after Thunderbolt
Anonymous No.64285868 [Report]
>>64285734
The Vist Foundation is such a dogshit retcon
Anonymous No.64285876 [Report] >>64286186 >>64287365
>>64285800
just do it
the action is worth all the other crap

>>64285831
I hate bebop or ragtime or whatever the fuck you call the particular flavour of jazz in Thunderbolt
(more of a bossa nova guy)
which is the main reason why I can't stand Thunderbolt. if not for that it would be tolerable.
(even though I hate artic arms on mobile suits)
Anonymous No.64285887 [Report]
>>64285823
looks like a Warg or Kanazuchi BA
Anonymous No.64286186 [Report]
>>64285831
>>64285876
I would say Narative is also worth a watch if only to hear Zoltan poke a hole in the newtype theory big enough to fly a mobile armor through.
Anonymous No.64286264 [Report] >>64286562
>>64285734
>Unicorn kind of retconned that
Very easy for me to dismiss anything introduced by unicorn.
Anonymous No.64286562 [Report]
>>64286264
Eh, most of the Vists act pretty Judaism, so the spirit is still there. The two that have a conscience are the aforementioned Cardius, and the founder of the Vist Foundation.
Anonymous No.64287365 [Report] >>64287638
>>64285876
>>64285831
Alright alright, at least it's just an OVA set rather than a whole series so it'll be over mercifully quick if it sucks.
Mainline UC with a zeekwank bent with no tomino and katoki is just a very unappealing package if we're judging a book buy it's cover.
At least it's got Angelo
Anonymous No.64287638 [Report]
>>64287365
It has better than that, It has Kshatriya, oh I guess her pilot's kind of cute too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc6ME9S_qps