Thread 64347349

SMGs are obsolete.

>>64347349 (OP)
Thanks unc we already know PCCs are shit.

-9mm
-weight of a 556
-capacity of a 556
-power of a pistol

>>64347403
>unc
Been seeing this all over the place, is this the new popular African-American vernacular the white kids have co-opted?

>>64347349 (OP)
>Fun is obsolete
>NO YOU CAN'T HAVE FUN EVERYTHING MUST BE SERIOUS
I disagree.

>>64347531
The future is now oldhead ass

>>64347403
>PCCs
if it's not select fire it's not a firearm.
peeseesee peedeedubyahhhhh <--Larping wastes of money time resources materials and effort.

>>64347612
>Fun
ok have it

>OP
Yes the Uzi is an overweight obsolete relic.
this is now a proper submachine gun thread

>>64347612
> mag fed, semi auto revolver
Looks fun.

>>64347650
6, 7 dogg.

>>64347722
>proper submachine gun
What kind of uzi is those?

>>64347612
STOP LIKING THINGS

You're all sick people.
I hope you all get cancer. Fuck youse all.
I put a curse upon you all.
Fuck ya
mudda

>>64347349 (OP)
>SMGs are super cool and fucking rad and the finest option for HD in a non-gay world
Fixed

>>64348216
>SMGs
if it's not select fire (or full-auto-only) it's not a submachine gun

idk bout smgs but pccs are fun on the bun

>>64347349 (OP)
So is your dick, but I bet you still like to play with it.

>>64348216
SMGs are worse for overpen though.

>>64347349 (OP)
>>64347403
>>64347722
Be MP5
>Loaded with 124gr +p, roughly matches .357 magnum performance from a 4" barrel
>Recoils like a .22
>Ideal FRT host
>Accurate
>Reliable
>Peerless durability
>More maneuverable than any but the gayest of SBRs
>Won't immediately fuck your ears up on use
You're all just gay retards tbqh

>>64347349 (OP)
Bullshit. If they were easily accessible to the average American, they would be the ideal home defense weapon.

>>64348463
Fucking everything overpens if you live in a house in North America. Birdshot will overpen.

>>64347349 (OP)
>SMGs are obsolete.

I Don't Care.

>>64348796
We live in a dangerous world, and when facing a self-defense situation, you can never be too certain. That's why professionals always recommend going John Wick style with enough overpen to destroy much of your own neighborhood / office building and resulting the deaths of perhaps 40-50 civilians.

>>64348668
You've never held a MP5 have you. The ergonomics are terrible. The safety is made for giants, the grip for children, the stock for Chinese, and the recoil is worse than an AR. The clunkiest trashiest PSA AR shoots better and has better ammo to boot.
It's one of those things people idolize because they've never used it.

>>64347531
>Been seeing this all over the place, is this the new popular African-American vernacular the white kids have co-opted?
yep, this phrase from the early 70s is definitely new you retard

>>64348853
This

>>64349106
Okay George

>>64349106
>70's
Gonna need a source on that one chief

>>64348853
>>64349139
anons of refined taste and discernment

>>64348668
I'm an og HK disciple owner and MP5 fan but this (developed from Steyr) mogs it

>>64347349 (OP)
U wot m8?

>>64348668
>>Won't immediately fuck your ears up on use
I thought you wear ears for anything more powerful than subsonic 22lr?

>>64349382
Is this the inspiration for the BL2 bandit smg body?

>>64349489
>I thought you wear ears for anything more powerful than subsonic 22lr?
at the range, yeah. if you have to "use" it you don't have time for that.

>>64348945
t. nogunz

>>64347349 (OP)
Hello from the 90s

>>64349489
Yes, legally the threshold for immediate hearing damage is 140dB. Unsurpressed 22 subsonic from a 16" bolt action is still over the threshold at 146, so really if it isn't an airgun you need to put on ears

>>64347349 (OP)
SMGs and PCCs are poverty coded, 300 blackout or GTFO poorfag
>>64347777
>quads

>>64349222
Why does the handguard angle up towards the rear like that?
Airsoft or something?

>>64348463
>Muh AR is better for muh overpen

>>64348668
>Lol9
>Matching 357
Reminder that the only good PCCs are leverguns in 357 or 44 magnum

>>64349777
Nahhh blud got trips, six seveeeeeeennnnnn!!! Fr fr.

>>64348945
>recoil is worse than an AR

You’ve never shot one, clearly

>>64349794
reminder that 6.5 sneedmoor has a bullet diameter of 6.7mm, the most skibidi ahh round fr

>>64349777
>>64349793
asinine posts

>>64349793
if you're actually using it you'd be better off using a 3030 desu, it's a direct upgrade if you aren't using it with a pistol

>>64348287
I know what I said. Uzis are very easy to convert, as are MP5 clones and PS90s.

>>64348287
This girl is 4 feet tall

>>64349777
tree hunnid got dem trips damn bruh dats sum real hood nigga shit fr

>>64350066
PPS-43 “pistols” are also extremely easy.

>>64349793
Why must we fight? Can we not have a unison of yeehaw and brrt?

>>64350090
>rail
>large loop
>not using a can on a lol9 pcc
>pistol light on a PCC
dios mio...

>>64350066
>'convert'
If it wasn't from the factory-built it's not a real submachine gun.

>>64347780
FAMAE SAF, a Chilean SIG 540 clone downscaled to 9mm.

>>64347349 (OP)
>obsolete
They're using SMGs in Ukraine now

>>64347349 (OP)
Name something better for high speed LEO concerned about overpen.
It's a niche roll but it's what they still have.

>>64349106

Only in nigger neighborhoods you kfc slurping future felon i can smell the fucking melanin on you nigger.

Went to Munich airport several times, often it was foids, but most of the time it was at least one dude with an MP5. If you act out and catch a burst of 115gr FMJ range ammo into your chest, you are having a bad day and will dicsontinue your previous hooligan conduct.

If they abolish the NFA, SMG's would have a small golden age in the civilian market. But yes, they're pretty much dead in military and most police.

>>64349780
It looks like it's not attached at the front, maybe the lost the push pin and needed to take a picture

>>64349498
Dunno, it's these

>>64347722
>Yes the Uzi is an overweight obsolete relic.
You take that back

>>64351080
.223 varmint rounds

>>64350703
You're not a real sub either but I'm gonna top you anyway
>>64350808
They're using whatever they can find in Ukraine. Saying it's being used in Ukraine is like saying it exists on earth

>>64349352
remember that one guy on here who bought one of these at MSRP then tried to act like it was the best shit?

>>64349793
Sorry retard, the numbers don't lie, 124gr +p out of a 9" barrel is typically going 1400fps +. This puts it right in the middle of typical 125gr performance from a 4" barrel. Not as good as my H110 hand loads from a 5" but if we're talking typical defense ammo bought off a shelf then they're pretty much identical.

>>64347349 (OP)
Maybe, but still cool as hell.

>>64348712
We're like on the absolute cusp of them being deemable as "common use" items.
We've got angled foregrips, collapsible/folding braces of many flavors mimicking stocks, and at least three completely different forms of full-auto simulation fire a hair's breadth from being indistinguishable from the real deal on many of the most common platforms, with hundreds of enthusiasts trying to come up with additional ones every day.
Eventually there will be a need to admit that SBRs and SMGs are already in the hands of the common man with such prevalence that the NFA is pointless.

>>64347349 (OP)
no shit

>>64350808
>>64351846

>>64352860
Wrong.

>>64352593
Uzis were cool in the 1970s and 80s but even by then they were obsolescent and overweight.

>>64351985
No don't remember that. A full auto PMX submachine gun, (You) mean?

Will pistols with detachable shoulder stocks make a return?

>>64352832
God, I hope so

>>64354174
Naah, as I said, SMGs and other open bolt designs are still cool as hell.

>>64356853
they're cool from a vintage p.o.v.
for a magazine-in-grip 'telescope bolt' submachine gun there's far better options today than the Uzi, which was a heavy brick even at time of its early 1950s entry into service

>>64349222
SMG and Shotguns are both obsolete.

>>64352088
Wow so it's worse than 357 in every way? Great insight retard

>>64357245
How did we go from this to everyone wearing those helmets with the stupid earmuff cutouts and those silly quad NVG's

>>64358266
Muh speed muh night vision even though it's daytime u gon get kilt in da streetz bro fr no cap

>>64347777
check’d ZoomGODS

>>64358266
>silly quad NVG’s

Bruh, the quad NODs are cool

The future of SMGs and PDWs is chassis/stocks for pistols.
Intermediate rifle cartridges and SBRs have already killed the SMG of the last century. But now we can make machine pistols in polymer frames that are actually usable while still being somewhat concealable. So the SMG lives on because it can get even smaller.
tldr; full retard polymer wonder nine inna chassis

>>64348313
This kills the paper target.

>>64359668
Shit like this sometimes makes me wish I was a nigger, with all the perks that entails. Notable among them is that I’d get to own a full auto Glock and the ATF wouldn’t fuck with me, because I’m not expected to know any better, or understand the law, or conceive of consequences rendered in the future, etc.

All joking aside, I agree, SMGs can live on as super tiny machineguns. They don’t even have to be of the pistol+chassis form - something like the TP9 is basically the same thing. But as soon as the mag moves in front of the grip, the resulting firearm is of rifle architecture, and you’re always better served with a more potent cartridge like 300 blackout. Why use the tiny pistol cartridge when the dimensional constraints that produce such cartridges are absent?

>>64357245
Shotguns have newfound value as impromptu anti-drone devices, so there’s that. If we do find ourselves in a war in the near future, shotguns will be indispensable.

>>64347349 (OP)
>beretta PMX9
>FORT-230
>B&T APC9K
Excluding PDWs chambered in sub-intermediate rifle rounds, are these the last hurrah of the SMGs? Any other new designs actually being adopted by major militaries or national LEAs?

>>64360875
>because I’m not expected to know any better, or understand the law, or conceive of consequences rendered in the future, etc.
All a white male can do is become rich instead.

>>64360875
>because I’m not expected to know any better, or understand the law, or conceive of consequences rendered in the future, etc.
Why do you hate the police?

>>64360910
these and a few others are the only contemporary designs, yes
'last hurrah' <--whatever that's supposed to mean, it could ? also apply to military rifles as well. Submachine guns today in 2025, are a relative niche market in mil and law enforcement firearms compared to a half century ago. They've been supplanted or replaced for many long term users by short-barreled select fire automatic rifles (more recently those chambered in calibers such as .300 BLK for example).
Pistol caliber submachine guns still have a role and are still today desired by users, but their market share has shrunk. And, compared to during/immediately after World War II the widespread requirement for cheap mass manufactured guns has changed i.e. for today's small arms both select fire rifles and submachine guns, the design and manufacture standards have increased somewhat. SMGs of World War II era were predominantly mass production least-cost weapons (to be supplied in vast numbers, quickly) which is not a design philosophy or template for mil small arms today.

>>64360884
What is the best anti-drone shotgun? Asking for a friend.

>>64361953
No idea, but I’m tempted to postulate anything mag-fed, loaded with buckshot or birdshot. And Iirc some drone-specific loads were recently developed.

>>64361922
AI posters should be perma banned.

>>64362036
No, they and the people who developed the shit and the people that maintain the data centers should be dragged into the street and beaten to within an inch of their life before being shot. AI posters are subhuman, for they are incapable of utilizing the most basic thing that makes us human, language. Allowing them to live and propagate poses a threat to humanity on a fundamental level

>>64347349 (OP)
How much is the cheapest Uzi

>>64360910
This>>64359668

>>64362036
wtf are (You) talking about
It was *retard* #64360910 (<--probably an AI) that posed the idiotic 'muh PDW' question
**(You)** should be banned. This board /k/ = Joke.

>>64359668
hue chads stay winning

>>64359668
>chassis/stocks for pistols
They're gay and get mogged by actual pdws/smgs like >>64360910

>>64360910
KUNA

>>64362226
I should be able to go to my local sporting goods store and purchase an Uzi (select fire) for $1,100.00 brand new.

>>64360884
>>64361953
Only Answer

>>64363232
>They're gay and get mogged by actual pdws/smgs like
Like what? A chunky blowback machine pistol with a stock and mag forward of grip designs?
That's not exactly mogged my fampiedesudesu.
And those guns are fine and all but chassis for existing tilting barrel pistols are smaller and they take the same magazines as likely buyers are already fielding in mass. That's why they will be the future of SMGs and PDWs.

>>64363232
>>64364333
And by chassis I mean stuff like the raider not the macaroni.

>>64364333
If they're better, why isn't any actual military or police force adopting them?

>>64360875
>But as soon as the mag moves in front of the grip, the resulting firearm is of rifle architecture, and you’re always better served with a more potent cartridge like 300 blackout. Why use the tiny pistol cartridge when the dimensional constraints that produce such cartridges are absent?
A mag in front of the grip SMG can still be significantly smaller than even the smallest SBRs.

>>64364392
For equivalent barrel lengths, the difference in length will be the same as the difference in COAL between cartridges. So like an inch. Not to say that such a gun isn’t useful, just that there are better chamberings and a better type of gun to use with that caliber.

>>64364333
Not only are the "chunky blowback machine pistols" far more stable in shooting than a stocked handgun, they can also fire literally hundreds of thousands of rounds without major parts failure.

That's why despite it's cost and theoretically slightly higher recoil than a roller-delayed SMG, and more bulk than a stocked handgun, militaries are still adopting blowback SMGs, because they won't need to buy new ones for a really long time.

>>64364608
Wasn't SOCOM testing the raider for the 320? That's a whole other frame/chassis not just a stock on a pistol. Would provide the same stability as the fort.

>>64347774
What in the fuck are you smoking

>>64347349 (OP)
Who cares? They're cool, ventilating dudes with something that looks like it was bought in an automotive store is neat.

>>64347349 (OP)
They are used for police work now. Most armies use armor that is at least NIJ III, it's still fit for police as rifles would over penetrate. Please learn to tie your shoes before posting

>>64364380
>"acktually"
Mil /police procurement is more of a joke in 21st century than it ever has been (never mind the bureaucracies/govs themselves, just look a the contractors' products)
the U.S. Army being prime example today
also as everyone knows the original NATO PDW 1990 program was kind of a joke
It's all a joke really. For mil and police service the smaller caliber 5.7 / 4.6 / and pistol rounds ought and can still be used for many tasks but due to post-1980s logistics, economy-of-scale and widespread adoption of AR-15 pattern rifles/carbines/'short barrels' the services have started by default and for cost economy simplicity and "dumb enough for all" just adopting 5.56-everything as standard issue.
Why even have these thread topics/discussions if every single "rifle" in the world is going to be some variant-or-other of AR-5.56? Because that's all which will ever exist from this point forward in time, correct? Just stop discussing anything at all, everything is an AR in .223

>>64347349 (OP)
pic is israeli slop

>>64368933
checked, OP pic is a fucking Action Arms import

>>64347349 (OP)
no

>>64347531
Isn't UNC a coin grading level? t. I have some old coins

>>64360884
>impromptu anti-drone devices

no they don't lol. the ukirane war has been going on for years and we only have like 3 clips of drones being downed by shotguns.

>>64351193
I wonder if she would let me clean it with her?

>>64347349 (OP)
Still cool.

>>64368933
>>64369441
So?
>>64371444

>>64371450
Nobody cares never did about Action Arms
and Uzis are dinosaur guns

Ingram M10 mogs the Uzi

this whole thread is a cope for cuckolds who let their government take away their fully automatic submachine guns.

>>64372695
Even the Uzi Pro?

>>64347349 (OP)
Okay, then let us buy one that was made this century so we can test ourselves.

>>64374440
far too high ROF

I'd love to see modernized Chink Jatimatic in 762tok. Rails and stuff. Since it's life died in Finland.

>>64376780
This looks like it would explode

>>64372758
whatever mang, frts basically make it a moot point.

>>64376787
Og 9x19 Jatimatic survived, how hard it could be to manufacture it in spicy 762 and in China? Though worst Koreans couldn't make AK's that didn't explode... AK is still MASCHINENPISTOLE, no?

>>64376787
kek

>>64348949
what StG is this?

>Thompson
>MP40
>Uzi
>MP5
the only cool looking SMGs

>>64377362
STG45, the experimental gewehr after 44 and before CETME/G3

>>64377380
Not even close.
It's the MKb 42(W), a predecessor to the StG44

>>64349777
this is the ugliest picture I've seen all month why on god's green earth would one save this shit to their electronic device

>>64377432
Is it? Well fuck my ass, the STG's look all similar.

>>64374622
That's the gayest thing I've ever read

>>64347349 (OP)
hard no on obsolete, outdated, perhaps, but very much not obsolete

>>64377502
mini-Uzis suck ass and are for Faggots

>>64377511
Yes it is totally forever completely obsolete

>>64377527
obsolete means it cannot serve in the role anymore, that very much isn't the case

>>64377374
PPSh-41 is sexy as fuck you plebian

>>64377561
Nobody is going to purchase new Uzis for any military, law enforcement, or private security purpose in 2025 because the MP9 exists. It's an obsolete overweight relic just like the Thompson

>>64378872
That's utterly irrelevant to the distinction I made

>>64378885
Just shut the fuck up, brainlet Faggot.

Blowback action is obsolete

>>64378872
>SMGs are obsolete because people are buying a different SMG
And don't you dare hit me with that "It's a PDW" shit

>>64366541
>That's a whole other frame/chassis not just a stock on a pistol.
OK, it's still got a camming action, which will not last as long as a blowback.

>the stock will never be as rigid
>the firing impulse will always be more severe
>the need to mount a plate around the slide to fit a non-reciprocating optic will always be inferior to just having a rigid chassis with 1913 rails machined into it/bolted onto it
>the magazine will always be less space-efficient and have more inherent friction due to the stagger-column
>suppressor options will always be more limiting
>the ballistics will always be inferior to a 7.5" barrel
>it will always be more prone to debris ingress

The list goes on. The raider is an attempt to have a hip-holstered firearm which can be shouldered for more precise aiming than a handgun, the FORT is a close-in, room/trench/corner-clearing machinegun which is stable and non-disruptive to the shooter in full-auto, and unquestionably stable for precise aiming (as much as 124gr 9mm trajectory allows) in semi-auto.

These are different classes of weapons.

>>64380426
I never agreed with OP or said that submachine guns are obsolete.
Many 'classic' submachine guns are obsolete, including the Uzi

>>64380664
Why Thompson had that rattle mag and not a clock mag like superior Suomi?

>>64348668
this, I have an MK18 type build and an SP5, both SBR'd and suppressed. The SP5 has zero recoil.

>>64380684
Much of the thompson's design left a bit to be desired. It was a decent smg when it was made, in 1918. That's not really saying much, though, especially by ww2

I just want a mac bros, mpa defender ss when

>>64347349 (OP)
Not if it's picrel, the boomer p90
>BRRRRRT

>>64376788
holy cope
soon you'll be saying semi automatic is just as good and not firing fast enough is just a skill issue

>>64358266
One is urban anti terror the other is sneaky squirrel desert punk

>>64382686
>laser sight
>1 foot long, 3” diameter, weighs probably >1 pound
Mein Gott, how far we’ve come. The same thing now weighs like 2oz and is small enough to fit on a CC pistol.

>>64377527
>SMGs are obsolete
>I prove this by posting a picture of a well known and widely issued modern SMG

>>64386008
Already said upthread I do not agree with OP's text premise
it's his choice of an obsolete picrel example (the Uzi) that I agree with
Uzi is as obsolete and 'classic' as the Thompson

Read the thread

>>64380684
It does use a clockwork spring. You wind it up about ten clicks of the mechanism to tension the drive.

>>64366880
What more does a man need?

>>64386022
>Read
No, this is 4chan I am here to start pointless arguments with online strangers and myself

>>64386908
One jump into the mud and your mags are full of shite. Should have done the Swedish K mag coupling.

>X is better than Y so X will get you killed
9mm is still lethal to hundreds of meters, you're not immune to physics retards. Keep shitting on stuff to feed your ego, you can't take your ego with you when you die.

>>64387630
From the Swedish army manual regarding the cool spruit spruit pistol.

>>64387630
About 15 years ago when I was a wee lad I had an airsoft AR. I took 3 mag and coupled them together like picrel. Has this ever been done with real mags?

(The white thing were these triangular plastic “spacers”)

>>64348945
There’s a reason people are still spending $3,000 on a design from the 60s. The MP5 is the best shooting PCC, sub, whatever. Anyone who says you can just buy a PSA 9mm, or shills for the fake MP5 brands either never shot one or is in denial. You can’t compare its roller delayed system to a cheap PSA AR. It’s smooth as butter and comes with one of the best iron sights ever made out of the box. Bonus points for training with 9mm, almost halving the cost of training with 5.56.

>>64388247
Yes its been done. 90 rounds of intermediate and higher is just heavy and it makes your gun extra annoying to carry around plus you're basically stuck with either tossing your mag monstrosity or carrying it empty, or accepting that you'll only have 3 mags. Much easier to carry extra mags in pouches.

>>64349489
Suppressed 147gr Federal HST out of an MP5 is loud enough to require ear protection but won’t cause immediate hearing damage like suppressed 5.56 will.

>>64350099
The issue I have with the rail is that it isn’t being used. If you’re going to use the skinner sights then just get rid of the rail. If you want the rail on that get a silver one with a silver scope

>>64388287
>MP5 is the best shooting
Correct, the Heckler & Koch MP5 is probably the smoothest in-full-auto shooting modern submachine gun design. Because it was originally designed as a rifle (and the HK 54/MP5 was its pistol-caliber adaptation)

>PCC, sub, whatever
Begone.

>>64349197
Noooo you can't like that, you either have to have a handgun or an intermediate cartridge firing 10" rifle that will spit flames, blind and deathen you.

Or just get a PDW... (post funded by Fiocci)

you'll never have to use a gun to defend yourself so stop pretending that minmaxing the effectiveness of your weapons matters

get whatever seems cool to you, it shoots bullets and bullets kill people

>>64390433
What does that have to do with this topic thread

is this a Weapons board

>>64368419
>Widespread adoption isn't trending towards what I like so it's a joke
Standards make sense for a large military because logistics are a big failure point in a war. Special forces however can use whatever they want and they mostly end up with an MP5 or P90 from what I can google.
You must have a pretty big ego if you think you know better than every military and police force on the planet

>>64348668
>MY stamped pot metal cuck gun is better than YOUR stamped pot metal cuck gun
just get a 300 blackout you retard