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Thread 64483870

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Anonymous No.64483870 [Report] >>64483879 >>64483882 >>64483894 >>64483916 >>64483923 >>64483941 >>64484093 >>64484148 >>64484150 >>64484252 >>64484405 >>64484617 >>64484673 >>64484939 >>64484983 >>64485079 >>64485088 >>64485171 >>64485234 >>64485237 >>64485320 >>64485482 >>64485549 >>64485741 >>64487534 >>64487794 >>64489455 >>64490320 >>64492184 >>64492319 >>64492621 >>64492693 >>64493260 >>64493684 >>64494060
What exactly went wrong?
Anonymous No.64483879 [Report] >>64484588 >>64492575
>>64483870 (OP)
Despite Russia's failures, the Ukrainian military is significantly less capable than what its hyped up to be.
Anonymous No.64483882 [Report] >>64485382
>>64483870 (OP)
politics behind the war ultimately
the exchange rate wasn't favourable, and Super Potato made some requests of zelenskyy for equipment and manpower to make it work. those numbers wouldn't have been possible without backlash against the government, so he told him no.
And that's why super potato decided to quit instead
Anonymous No.64483892 [Report] >>64484377
They telegraphed their intentions months in advance. That's why
Anonymous No.64483894 [Report] >>64484252 >>64485141
>>64483870 (OP)
Let's make one thing clear before this thread begins: the OP pic is a zigger projection of what they think the plans were. The real plan has not been leaked or posted to the public. That being said, it is not an implausible projection, but it is probably larger in scope than the real plan, with the intent of making the failure seem bigger.

In reality the capture of Tokmak may have been the sole true objective of the entire offensive (this was not achieved). The capture of Tokmak would have cut off logistic routes to everything west of it, which would have forced a Kherson-level collapse. It is quite possible that, even in a surprise success, they may have planned to stop there and fortify the area around Tokmak.
Anonymous No.64483916 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
the fact that everyone and their dog was saying "zapo offensive soon!!!" before it even happened was a clear sign that it wouldn't go well.
also from what i remember, apparently how kraut commanders instructed ukraine to handle minefields was "just go around them lol", apparently not considering the concept of what if the whole front is minefield, but that might've been misinfo at the time.
Anonymous No.64483923 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
>announce offensive ahead of time
>95IQ NATO advisors tell you to work as if you've got desert storm tier air supremacy
>receive 1/10 the tanks you need
>launch offensive anyway
it had zero chance of working and I remember saying as much. everyone back then was deeply delusional about the effect NATO tanks would have on the battlefield, as if the same constraints didn't apply to them
Anonymous No.64483941 [Report] >>64483950 >>64484989 >>64490717
>>64483870 (OP)
it was stupid to do it at a numerical disadvantage, zelenkike needed a victory for politics and donations no onw would have done that kind of thing out of their own initiative (talking about ukranian command)
i remember the hype before it and everyone was talking about the defense mechanism, it was apparently the biggest one in europe since ww2 and that was being talked before the failure.
Anonymous No.64483942 [Report] >>64483959 >>64484222 >>64484250 >>64484762 >>64484812
1. A lack of support in the quantities needed. Senile Biden being convinced that drip feeding packets of boutique western armor would be decisive when what was actually needed was a surge of massive quantities of good-enough surplus vehicles, large quantities of HIMARs, strategic game changers like ATACMS, mobile air support, transport helicopters, and jet fighters.

2. A certain sniveling shitstain zoomer POG who placed his need to feel important on Warthunder forums over the lives of hundreds of Ukrainian servicemen.

3. General Eggmaggedon actually doing his job and creating multiple lines of passive defenses, fuckloads of mines, and CAS assets, and having plenty of time to do this because of the above.

4. General Potato being too high on his own farts after being on the cover of Time to course correct and not commit to a compromised plan, and putting the cart before the horse by thinking that flashy success in a counteroffensive would be a propaganda victory that would guarantee western support rather than pooling his existing support, revising his strategy, and conserving his manpower. One of many reasons why Syrski is ultimately a better general despite having a lower public profile and media presence.

5. Zelensky pressing down from above also didn't help although given the circumstances this is somewhat forgivable.
Anonymous No.64483950 [Report] >>64484989
>>64483941
zelensky was under pressure from western politicians.
>muh donations
Ukrainian strategy in this war has been heavily impacted by reliance on western aid. Time and time again they're forced to make operationally stupid decisions to keep on top of public opinion in the west. But it's not like they have a choice in the matter, it's their lifeline and losing it is far more devastating than casualties on the battlefield.

Zelensky is corrupt and doesn't know his ass from his forehead when it comes to military matters, but he's been able to keep western aid flowing for longer than I originally expected him to.
Anonymous No.64483959 [Report] >>64483991
>>64483942
>a surge of massive quantities of good-enough surplus vehicles, large quantities of HIMARs, strategic game changers like ATACMS, mobile air support, transport helicopters, and jet fighters.
this has been clear from day 1 and the west still isn't willing to provide what is needed, mass. every time something gets commited it's in tiny packets and telegraphed months ahead.

there was a window in the summer of 2022 to actually supply Ukraine with what they needed to restore pre-war borders (minus Crimea), but it was already too late by winter that year as the mobiks started hitting the front en masse
Anonymous No.64483991 [Report] >>64483998 >>64484035 >>64484046
>>64483959
the only thing Ukraine ever lacked was warm bodies. Ukraine has such a decisive equipment advantage its not even funny. Aid was hitting Ukraine within a week of the conflict starting. The only reason why 2022 wasn't a capitulation was because Russia decided to show up with less warm bodies than what Ukraine had on hand which was the most retarded tactical blunder of the 21st century.
Ukraine then had a 300k surge of warm bodies to push the ziggers back within 2 months and has never been able to replace these men as they attrition ever since.
Its Finland 2.0
Anonymous No.64483998 [Report] >>64484017 >>64484047
>>64483991
>Ukraine has such a decisive equipment advantage its not even funny.
We have now reached the stage of zigger cope where they begin to pretend they were the underdogs all along
Anonymous No.64484017 [Report] >>64484608
>>64483998
so the 3 year bombardment of Russians getting fucked to the stone age by javelins, himars, drones, bradleys, thermal equipment was just pretend NATO smoke and mirrors his whole time?
Anonymous No.64484035 [Report] >>64484047
>>64483991
>Ukraine has such a decisive equipment advantage its not even funny
Anonymous No.64484046 [Report] >>64484047
>>64483991
>Ukraine has such a decisive equipment advantage its not even funny.
Anonymous No.64484047 [Report] >>64484054 >>64484061 >>64484263 >>64484265
>>64484035
>>64483998
>>64484046
so are F-16s and abrams and himars suddenly shit now? Ukraine had the wunderwaffe, where are the 1991 borders?
The real answer is there is not enough men in the Ukrainian military to achieve its goals, end of story
Anonymous No.64484054 [Report] >>64484070
>>64484047
Never change, vatniks. Never change.
Anonymous No.64484061 [Report] >>64484070
>>64484047
>dozen F-16 and a few dozen Abrams means Ukraine has a decisive equipment advantage
Damn, ziggers really rate 40 year old hand-me-down NATO gear.
Anonymous No.64484070 [Report] >>64484106
>>64484054
>>64484061
can you please address my argument instead of shitposting? I am not a fucking zigger
what vital equipment did Ukraine NOT see in 2022 that would decisively hand them the victory? The problem has always been manpower.
I'm asking a legitimate question.
Anonymous No.64484093 [Report] >>64484616
>>64483870 (OP)
Another refinery?
Anonymous No.64484104 [Report]
yup, fucking crickets
Anonymous No.64484106 [Report] >>64484146
>>64484070
Why would you expect any kind of argument when you say retarded shit? If you said shit was edible I wouldn't have an argument with you, everyone knows its both wrong and retarded.

But, just to humor you; You bring up Abrams tanks, that first arrived in the second half of fucking 2023, F-16's that arrived in 2024 and HIMARS of which maybe a dozen were delivered in 2022. Meanwhile Ukrainian pre-war military budget was comprable to fucking Belgium.

Fucking hilarious dude.
Anonymous No.64484146 [Report] >>64484161 >>64484166 >>64484268 >>64484388
>>64484106
Ukraine received $113 Billion in aid in 2022. Ammunition, thermals, body armor, modern rifles by the metric ton. Tanks are meaningless when the $47 million in Javelins NATO sent opened up Russian tanks by the thousands. Don't even try to memory hole the saint javelin and cope cage shitposting.
How much more equipment was needed? I'm sure Hitler was also just one more panzer division away from winning ww2 as well.
Anonymous No.64484148 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
the official reason was that someone leaked the plans to the americans and americans leaked it to the russians

however
if you go to twitter and do a search from this period you gonna see an insane amount of idiots posting photos of the collumns movement

even if you were the most incompetent army in the world this was a complete osint failute
(plus they completely lost the air theater from day one )
Anonymous No.64484150 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
>What exactly went wrong?
Real answer: Zelensky being a retard in charge
Anonymous No.64484161 [Report] >>64484967
>>64484146
>Ukraine received $113 Billion in aid in 2022.
Most of which was not military aid, you dishonest piece of shit.

>Ammunition, thermals, body armor, modern rifles by the metric ton.
>Tanks are meaningless when the $47 million in Javelins NATO sent opened up Russian tanks by the thousands. Don't even try to memory hole the saint javelin and cope cage shitposting.
Oh, so they got some rifles and anti tank weapons? This constitutes a "DECISIVE EQUIPMENT ADVANTAGE" how exactly you fucking retarded braindead zigger faggot?


You heard it here first folks, 47 million dollars worth of Javelins stops the entire Russian army.
Anonymous No.64484166 [Report]
>>64484146
>Don't even try to memory hole the saint javelin and cope cage shitposting.
Why would we try to memoryhole that? Shit was hilarious. Especially considering that the cope cages were created with the javelins in mind, which is verified by the culmination in the cope oil lantern hanging from a tank's barrel in order to attract the heat-seeking javelins. That was very special, and was memoryholed very, very hard.
Anonymous No.64484222 [Report]
>>64483942
>2. A certain sniveling shitstain zoomer POG who placed his need to feel important on Warthunder forums over the lives of hundreds of Ukrainian servicemen.


..what? Never heard that before.
Anonymous No.64484250 [Report] >>64484268
>>64483942
Please explain to me in plebbit terms the nicknames you have used,
We have reserved Potato for Luka so start with explaining this one.
This post smells to me of brown or just low-level mutt angst.
Anonymous No.64484252 [Report] >>64484293 >>64490062
>>64483870 (OP)
Almost all of it on the planning side of things.
1. The entire operation was too big for the Ukrainian army to pull off. Kharkiv and Kherson were far more limited in scale.
2. Bad timing and constant delays in order to wait for western armor led to Ukraine missing out on a window of opportunity when Russia was going through a shell famine.
3. Complete shit show from the NATO with constant bickering over what to send and how little mainly by Biden and Scholz coupled with unrealistic promises by others of hundred of thousands of shells which didn't arrive until late 2024.
4. Actually smart actions by the Russians like building a proper defense line and getting manpower parity due to mobilization.
5. Some retard leaked the battle plans ahead of time and Ukraine kept hyping the offensive up like it's some summer blockbuster.
6. Whatever the idiotic decision was to also counter-attack at Bakhmut at the same time.
7. Lack of air power couple with the notion of doing a American style offensive.
>>64483894
>In reality the capture of Tokmak may have been the sole true objective of the entire offensive (this was not achieved).
Bro please. If the goal was Tokmak they wouldn't have been attacking along the entire front from Zapo to Bakhmut.
Anonymous No.64484263 [Report]
>>64484047
>so are F-16s and abrams and himars suddenly shit now?
Twenty modern fighters and thirty Abrams aren't nearly enough to impact things when you're dealing with a war that has close to a million men involved now. Numbers of equipment matter. You're also entirely ignoring the retarded rules of engagement Ukraine has to deal with where Biden wouldn't allow then to use US weapons on targets inside Russia until mid 2024.
Also western tank have been overrated this entire war. The most useful armor shipments Ukraine got where the upgraded Polish and Czech T-72 throughout 2022.
Anonymous No.64484265 [Report]
>>64484047
They would be decisive if they were given in a giant lump instead of 10-20 at a time.
Anonymous No.64484268 [Report]
>>64484146
>Tanks are meaningless when the $47 million in Javelins NATO sent opened up Russian tanks by the thousands
No they're not if you're trying to go on the offensive.
>>64484250
Potato is indeed mostly used for Luka these days. There was a time period when Zalushnyi was called Super Potato. Since he's been out of the public eye for a while it's a largely forgotten nickname.
Anonymous No.64484293 [Report]
>>64484252
>If the goal was Tokmak they wouldn't have been attacking along the entire front from Zapo to Bakhmut.
Ah yes, the famous 1000 mile wide offensive, I clearly remember how a million ukrainian soldiers have attempted to do that.
Anonymous No.64484376 [Report]
>What exactly went wrong?
1. Not enough gear, as in they didn't have enough armor to waste to push through, while also not having the good enough gear to help them more efficiently use what they had.
2. Waited too long for promised supplies, which never arrived in time or in the promised numbers, giving russians a chance to dig in better.
Anonymous No.64484377 [Report] >>64484576
>>64483892
Not really, it's not like there were any other options for them. That was the single sane direction to attack.
Anonymous No.64484382 [Report]
details of khokhol plans were leaked by us staff to russians as a part of escalation management
Anonymous No.64484387 [Report] >>64485350
OP here. I'm brown
Anonymous No.64484388 [Report]
>>64484146
>Ukraine received $113 Billion in aid in 2022
Not really, that's just revisionist jew math
Anonymous No.64484405 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
Soldiers numbers and the air force are the only two things that matters. You killed 14 guys with FPVs? Congrats, here's the next wave of 20. Oh, you want to poke your head outside for more than five goddamn seconds?
>EEEEEEEEEEEEKABOOOOOOM
Here comes a flock of glide bombs and kamikaze drones on your ass.

There are significantly more third worlders who want to fight Ukraine than there are first worlders who want to fight against Russia. Armor doesn't do anything when FPVs melt right through it, and planes don't do anything when they can't safely reach far enough to shoot down the other planes on the other side of the planet that outnumber them. Basically what you need is for NATO to actually send soldiers, and to use the air force to allow ground troops to advance. Which they won't because they are (checks civilian polls) complete and utter pussies
Anonymous No.64484576 [Report] >>64484850
>>64484377
Yea which is why they should have done something insane instead like when they decided to invade kursk which actually worked much better
Anonymous No.64484588 [Report]
>>64483879
Ukes know they have issues and often advance, make the area suck then let themselves retreat from fire and the enemy thinks it's a win; it's pre sighted, trapped, or both. It works for attritional war.
Anonymous No.64484608 [Report]
>>64484017
Yes in Ukrainian or Russian terms it's hellfire, in NATO terms it's whatever is expired. That's how low Russia is.
Anonymous No.64484616 [Report]
>>64484093
Major blackouts in slme suburbs of moscow as a result of the attacks on substations.
Anonymous No.64484617 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
Soviet generals with no appreciation for the concentrated/dispersed nature of modern warfare.
Anonymous No.64484658 [Report] >>64484840
AFU when equipped with outdated "slavshit"
>Kiyv counter offensive
>kharkiv counter offensive
>kherson counter offensive
AFU when equipped with western leopards, abrams, Bradleys, mirages, F-16s and a variety of western AA systems
>summer counter offensive
>belgorod offensive
>kursk offensive
>toretsk counter offensive
Explain
Anonymous No.64484673 [Report] >>64484676
>>64483870 (OP)
Contrary to the popular opinion the offensive took place around the entire front line with varius intensity of action, instead on having a limited rush on Kharkiv and Crime as US and Nato suggested, relying on the russian being too busy fighting to hold on the frontlines in the south
The AFU simply didn't have the menpower and resurces to do it
Anonymous No.64484676 [Report]
>>64484673
Holy ESL
Anonymous No.64484762 [Report] >>64484812
>>64483942
>A certain sniveling shitstain zoomer POG who placed his need to feel important on Warthunder forums over the lives of hundreds of Ukrainian servicemen.

Qrd? Sounds crazy
Anonymous No.64484769 [Report] >>64490725
>all this thread

Does no one fucking remember that by the time offensive started everything was already heavily fortified and literal mine fields aka Surovkin Line? It was retarded to begging with.
Anonymous No.64484812 [Report]
>>64483942
>>64484762
the leak is massively overblown. I saw the documents myself and frankly there was nothing in there that most people didn't know already. They also contained very little in the manner of counteroffensive plans besides a vague sense of "they're gonna try to retake the south" which everyone already knew since the ukrainians were saying it. Frankly the leaking of those documents probably contributed to a grand total of zero deaths. Western aid delays is ultimately the single biggest reason with the second reason being the sheer volume of russian defences in terms of mines and such.
Anonymous No.64484840 [Report] >>64485221
>>64484658
the kharkiv counter offensive was conducted when the ukies had numerical superiority and they struck unprepared and unsuspecting russian troops. the sapporishia counter offensive was conducted against a russian numerical superiority and directly against fortified and well prepared defensive lines manned by troops who were informed about the coming attack several months before it happened and were monitoring the entire build up of the ukie forces before the attack.

the tactical blunder was expecting mine plows to actually work. they dont. mines are far more effective and harder to clear than anticipated.
Anonymous No.64484850 [Report]
>>64484576
Jake "the cuck" Sullivan forbid them
Anonymous No.64484854 [Report] >>64484855 >>64484870 >>64484881 >>64484897
Since I think we've broadly answered the OP question (some combination of telegraphing, insufficient aid and manpower vs goals, strength of russian defence via mines, etc etc) - what would you anons have done differently?
Parameters:
>January 2023
>You're working with the same western aid regime and domestic resources up until that point but can change your behaviour from then on
>You have to conduct some kind of decisive strategic offensive action by the end of 2023, decisive enough to be considered greater or equal to the Kharkiv counteroffensive
what do you do differently?
Anonymous No.64484855 [Report]
>>64484854
Surprise tactical attack on Poland
Anonymous No.64484870 [Report] >>64485325
>>64484854
shameless self reply but considering the situation my plan is
>mine the fuck out of basically every vector of approach
>try to get on the whole "let's spam drones at russian refineries" thing sooner
>feint a buildup on the southern front and carry on with the massive propaganda campaign hyping a summer counteroffensive in the south all sumer
>conduct a lightning offensive on Transnistria in september
>hand transnistria back to moldova after looting that one massive cold war bunker for its' stalker-esque artifacts and totems
Anonymous No.64484881 [Report]
>>64484854
>what would you anons have done differently?
suck up to trump and do billion dollar business deals with his sons. fund the entire magasphere.
Anonymous No.64484886 [Report] >>64484943
Like others have said, they read a bad translation of the Art of War that said:

>The best attack is to telegraph your offensive long beforehand and pause for your enemy to get ready. Then when you do fight you will defeat your enemies best defences and fighting forces which will win you the war.

Also it turns out that the best move was to just to do a reverse 2022 and capture Moscow in 2 weeks.
Anonymous No.64484897 [Report]
>>64484854
Attack Belarus in a Peoples War and ignore all rules of war inc. the use of terrorism in Russia. Accept that NATO isn't going to help win and that Russia doesn't have the resources to fight a war on a grand scale.
Anonymous No.64484927 [Report]
>[deleted]
Damn I sure am glad we are Reddit now
Anonymous No.64484939 [Report] >>64484956
>>64483870 (OP)
Taking 39/1 losses the whole war blunts your offensive potential
Anonymous No.64484943 [Report] >>64484952
>>64484886
They don't do that intentionally. They literally waiting for supplies that never arrived.
Anonymous No.64484952 [Report] >>64485097
>>64484943
>They don't do that intentionally.
retard, zelesnky was telling putin exactly what he was going to do months in advance
Anonymous No.64484956 [Report] >>64485068 >>64487924
>>64484939
>THIS is how ziggers cope with 14:1
grim
Anonymous No.64484967 [Report]
>>64484161
>47 million dollars worth of Javelins
Thirdies literally can't comprehend how much richer west is, $1m is an unimaginable amount of money for them.
Anonymous No.64484983 [Report] >>64484991
>>64483870 (OP)
Hohols are in reality russian patriots who happily collect the paychecks but would never fight their russian brothers. orders to do that are not followed. and ofc they tell the russian command everything.
Anonymous No.64484989 [Report]
>>64483950
>>64483941
Yeah that's great but when I see your screeching posts I really only have one question...
What blew up?
Anonymous No.64484991 [Report] >>64492785
>>64484983
bait, but funny
Anonymous No.64485068 [Report] >>64485176
>>64484956
The funny bit is that the Russians have been caught multiple times passing off their own dead as "Ukrainian"
Anonymous No.64485079 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
Giving the Russians 7 fucking months to learn, adapt, and entrench instead of applying constant pressure for a big hyped up social media bait trlevised offensive.
Anonymous No.64485088 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
Map has a scale of 1000 km and largest maneuver element you see is a battalion
Anonymous No.64485097 [Report]
>>64484952
That was the plan. It was supposed to be a bait.
>told Putin Ukraine going to attack this.
>general carmageddon hastily gather all mobik to defend this spot.
>Ukraine come with 1000 vehicles and 100 airplanes and defeat them all in 1 decisive battle
>except the 1000 vehicles and 100 airplanes never arrived so the plan forced to put in halt.
>this gave general imagettem more time to setup defense with manpowers that just arrived.
Anonymous No.64485141 [Report] >>64485156 >>64488018
>>64483894
This isn't true at all. Ukranians stated multiple times that tokmak was the bare minimum.

That said, ukranians fucked up by attacking Kharkov and kherson in 2022. They instead of attacking in those directions, they should have focused everything in one single concentrated push to berdyansk, at at time when russian defenses were practically non existent. They could have easily reached the sea of azov in a few weeks and trapped the russians in kherson on the wrong side of the river.

The offensive would have ended with 10k russians in kherson surrendering without a single shot being fired in that front, and the road to Crimea being forced wide open.
Anonymous No.64485156 [Report]
>>64485141
In hindsight yes. But at the time I'm sure they worried about a repeat of Mariupol, which was still fresh in memory. This was also at a time when russia still had a huge advantage in both armor and artillery.
Anonymous No.64485171 [Report] >>64485240
>>64483870 (OP)

One well known hotdog salesman managed to grind most of the ukrainian army with his ass to mouth tactic. The town of bakhmut swallowed both russian and ukrainian army and what was left was too tired/depleted to launch operational maneuvers into general robotniks trench maze.
Funny to think that the eggheads that saved the day still got slimed by monke.
Im pretty sure the ukrainian losses basicly mirror russian ones in timing but with a different ratio.
Anonymous No.64485176 [Report] >>64485192 >>64485411
>>64485068
you're referring to information given by ukrainian side about supposedly russian remains found among bodies transferred to ukraine. it was intentional disinformation campaign by ukraine. in all cases the bodies were of soldiers fighting for ukraine with dual russian-ukrainian nationality, some of which were the members of "freedom of russia legion", that operated and died in kursk oblast, while others just had two passports.

the dead shouldn't be used for propaganda, but here we are. disgusting.
Anonymous No.64485192 [Report]
>>64485176
>t-this was a disinformation campaign
>provides no source or reasoning
that doesn't work here, try harder next time.
Anonymous No.64485221 [Report]
>>64484840
Mine rollers work the problem is there's essentially none in the grand scheme of things. All tanks need to be mine clearers now desu. Otherwise a FPV can crater your entire platoon and leave all of your tanks stuck in a minefield.
Anonymous No.64485234 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
Telegraphing and advertising, six lines of expendables with a fuckton of mines.
Anonymous No.64485237 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
they didn't try it in 2026 so that there was actually enough attrition on artillery that charging across minefields covered by artillery wasn't suicide. the plan could have worked for fully western military, but only because any artillery would have been bombed to shit if it so much as sneezed towards the advance.
Anonymous No.64485240 [Report] >>64485334
>>64485171
It's pretty crazy that prisoners and a rear guard basically stopped a modern military.
Anonymous No.64485320 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
i have never seen any one other than pro russian shills post this picture
Anonymous No.64485325 [Report]
>>64484870
Biden and Scholz would cuck the fuck out if Ukraine touched Transnistria. Now would be a better time, appeasers in Euro politics have been purged from centrist and liberal circles by now, they're only left in right-wing 5th column parties, and Trump wouldn't be able to spell Transnistria, let alone find it on a map, so he won't give a fuck
Anonymous No.64485334 [Report]
>>64485240
>modern military
>ukraine
retard
Anonymous No.64485335 [Report]
Are there any caucasian people in this thread that can weigh in on whether Toropets was exposed to thermobaric weaponry?
Anonymous No.64485350 [Report]
>>64484387
Gokubro…
Anonymous No.64485382 [Report]
>>64483882
>those numbers wouldn't have been possible without backlash against the government
Iirc "butcher" Syrski took over the necessary manpower reserve, further watering down the effort.

>The spearhead on Leopard tanks break through half a dozen ambushes before suffering mobility kill
Anonymous No.64485411 [Report]
>>64485176
>uses the dead for propaganda
>complains about others using the dead for propaganda
typical zigger
Anonymous No.64485477 [Report]
>Those were khokhol russians!
Fucking pottery.
Anonymous (He/Him) No.64485482 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
>What exactly went wrong?
The tragic consequence of the innate Gayrapean shellesness
Anonymous No.64485549 [Report] >>64487317
>>64483870 (OP)
Kherson in September 2022 should have set off the alarm bells. Ukraine suffered heavy losses, but the Russian position wasn't tenable due to being on the wrong side of the Dnieper River. They had no such advantage in Zaporizhzhia, so Ukraine got bogged down in an attrtitonal battle against a bigger opponent.
Anonymous No.64485741 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
Modern warfare, and all of its destructive potencial and ability, is the death of "big arrow operations" like this. It's a world of just as many "tiny arrows" as there are bullets, shells, and drones flying around
Anonymous No.64487317 [Report]
>>64485549
Ukraine didn't suffer particularly heavy losses during the counteroffensive itself, iirc. They did suffer losses defending against the push toward Mykolaiv. Also at the time the largest grouping of VDV (which were still, at that point, well-equipped soldiers with actual training) were in and around Kherson, with more VDV shuttled in to reinforce them shortly before the withdrawal (I'm not sure if they were there long enough to be significant)
Anonymous No.64487534 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
The war was fake. Theater to distract the public from Trump hiding the Epstein files.
Anonymous No.64487794 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
No air support lol
Anonymous No.64487924 [Report] >>64488648
>>64484956
Why do they even bother with those mass graves? You'd expect ziggers to simply let decomposition and nature do its job
Anonymous No.64488018 [Report] >>64489176
>>64485141
Taking Russian land was actually very smart. It meant Russian couldn't sue for peace with current holdings without giving up their own space which they would never allow.
Anonymous No.64488648 [Report]
>>64487924
Allowing this to happen on such a massive scale causes outbreaks of disease among armies. They don't want the mobiks dying before they can attack.
Anonymous No.64489176 [Report]
>>64488018
>It meant Russian couldn't sue for peace with current holdings
They have rejected this idea repeatedly unless it comes with guarantees of no NATO troops/presence/membership which hasn't been on the table. If the Kursk offensive had never happened, we would still be we are now and the war would still be going on.
Anonymous No.64489455 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
Ukrainians are less willing to commit suicide by slamming their heads into a wall.
Anonymous No.64490062 [Report]
>>64484252
>building a proper defense line
Oh, by the way, the guys from Rusich actually evaluated the defensive line and said it was complete shit because it was another Russian corruption scheme as civilian contractors were hired to build them, people who obviously had no tactical considerations in mind.
The Ukrainians just had to cross xboxhueg minefields before getting to the defensive lines, which made their quality essentially meaningless. There was no way to breach the minefields. Using a line charge wouldn't even cross halfway through, and their use created a huge cloud of smoke which made it easy for artillery to sight in.
Anonymous No.64490320 [Report] >>64490367 >>64490467
>>64483870 (OP)
ill dump my hot take here but in the tallies of ukrainian fuckups versus russian fuckups we've either approached parity or its now ukraine doing the most retarded warfighting

russian side fuckups:
opening strategy
Kharkiv manouvre warfare failure

ukraine fuckups:
summer offensive
bakhmut
kherson offensive
pokrovsk(SOOM:tm:)
khursk larp

like can we just stop bullshitting for once and acknowledge for the last 2 years ukraine has been taking resounding L after L
Anonymous No.64490367 [Report]
>>64490320
theyve inflicted insane casualties and managed to hold most of their terrain against a country that is significantly bigger with multiples more soliders

like can we just stop bullshit for once and acknowledge youre a zigger retard
Anonymous No.64490467 [Report]
>>64490320
is this some kind of new zigger neutrooler cope? trying to pretend that you're not a vatnik by conceding some russian fuckups?

Don't get me wrong, ukraine has fucked up in many ways and god knows the government is far from perfect. But the vast majority of their mistakes and flaws can ultimately be chalked up to their western allies being weak, indecisive, and most importantly, inconsistent. Russia on the other hand, the successor of the once mighty USSR, the supposed second army in the world, the mighty "bear", has done nothing but do the geopolitical equivalent of shitting itself whilst violently cutting its own limbs off for the last three years. It has turned itself into an economic vassal of china; it has burned away yet another generation never to be regained; it has demolished its stockpiles of armour and artillery that were meant for the hypothesised holy war against "HATO". It has struggled to even capture a fraction of what was, less than a few years ago, one of the poorest and most corrupt nations in the world. Mind you only two summers ago we say the russians experience a minor civil war. And yet this anon would have you believe that the country fighting for its very survival against the asiatic hordes is somehow deserving of your hatred moreso than the invader is?
To put it succinctly: niggers tongue my anus. fuck ziggers. fuck you. kill yourself anon. Slava
Anonymous No.64490717 [Report] >>64492601
>>64483941
what blew up?
Anonymous No.64490725 [Report]
>>64484769
this
Anonymous No.64492129 [Report]
>64485176
-1 (You)
Anonymous No.64492184 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
too many orcs.
Anonymous No.64492319 [Report] >>64492564
>>64483870 (OP)
/k/ did't cope enought
Anonymous No.64492564 [Report]
>>64492319
>zigger can't keep his spelling game on point for one small cope post
seething lol.
Anonymous No.64492575 [Report]
>>64483879
This. I'm pro uke, I'm a uke, and I'll tell you... they are better by a lot. So like an ant lifts more than a flea; still not pulling a sled.
Don't expect ukes to be THAT good.
Anonymous No.64492601 [Report]
>>64490717
More oil refineries and another petrochemical plant
Anonymous No.64492621 [Report] >>64492631 >>64492648 >>64492674 >>64492807
>>64483870 (OP)
3,400 people are born in russia every day.
Exactly like conflicts before it, trying to win a war simply by killing enemy combatants NEVER works. You win by having more people than the other dude does and hurling them to certain death to achieve strategic goals.
Anonymous No.64492631 [Report]
>>64492621
You can’t seriously think it’s good for a nation to throw a third of its population into a grinder? Russian births are declining and are already below replacement level.
Anonymous No.64492648 [Report]
>>64492621
Well shucks, I guess ukies should be given more long-range weapons to kill three times their current daily average by deep striking zigger hives.
Anonymous No.64492674 [Report]
>>64492621
>yeah we'll just throw a third od the population away for the next couple decades
lol, lmao i wish zigzogs would. World would be better off without asians in general.
Anonymous No.64492693 [Report] >>64492702
>>64483870 (OP)

i always thought the plan should've been to start down to the left near kherson and work your way right. the idea being Russia would've had the least ability to provide air cover/defenses. and yeah crossing that river would've sucked, but bomb the fuck out of the area for weeks if you have to.

>gamer general
Anonymous No.64492702 [Report]
>>64492693
>bomb the fuck out of the area for weeks if you have to.
The problem is that if you want to bomb with planes you run into air defence and if you want to bomb with artillery, you quickly learn that gets you stuck in the infinite artillery duel and you are wasting most of your time fucking around with counterbattery rather than hitting the targets you want.
All which you would know if you paid any attention at all to the war, at any point over the last 3 years.
Anonymous No.64492785 [Report]
>>64484991
"Brothers With Knives"

Russia look around, say: “Ah, my brothers, you all still love me, da?”
Raise glass of vodka to air that no one breathe.
Call them republics, family, little cousins of big bear.
But door slam, window close, neighbor dog bark all night.

Kazakh brother smile too wide, counting teeth and borders.
Georgian cousin wave from distance, but hand hide rock.
Baltic sisters pretend not hear knocking at 3 a.m.—
they busy polishing NATO badges like wedding rings.

Russia still shout, “We are one blood!”
but blood is mostly on floor now, not in heart.
Old songs sound different when you sing alone,
and only echo answer, off cracked Lenin statue.

Ukraine, oh Ukraine—Russia cry your name like drunk ex,
say, “Why you move on? I bring gas! I bring pipeline!”
But you change lock, paint house yellow-blue,
and now he sit outside fence, singing sad war lullaby.

Moldova, Armenia, all the rest—
they nod polite, keep distance of one tank-length.
Russia think it is surrounded by brothers,
but forget: every brother grow beard, get job, move out.

Now only ghosts of empire come to dinner,
wearing medals, drinking tears.
Russia toast to love, but world toast to caution.
Family reunion turn into funeral.

And yet—somewhere deep, under frost and pride,
Russia still believe warmth can return,
that maybe one day “brother” mean not “hostage,”
and knocking at door won’t sound like shelling.
Anonymous No.64492807 [Report] >>64492998
>>64492621
>3,400 people are born in russia every day
I didn’t realize how bad it is for Russia now. 1700 of that being girls and with 1k casualties per day means Russia is fucked demographically.
Anonymous No.64492998 [Report]
>>64492807
>I didn’t realize how bad it is for Russia now. 1700 of that being girls and with 1k casualties per day means Russia is fucked demographically.
"I didn't realize how good for the world it is now. 1700 of that being whores and with 1k (lol more idiot) 'improvements in the world' per day means the world is better demographically" is how humans say it.
Anonymous No.64493260 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
>What exactly went wrong?
They should not conduct offensives until they have squeezed the last drop from Russian attrition and US and EU politicans pressured them to do it.
Anonymous No.64493684 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
They’re Ukrainians after all. They got too high on their own supply, losing to T54s takes a lot of effort
Anonymous No.64494060 [Report]
>>64483870 (OP)
Ukris trying to learn how to use old soviet, german, uk, usa and poland hardware.