Thread 40778942

as soon as you start thinking about why you believe things, and replacing your unfounded ideas with ones based on science and critical thinking, everyone starts to look so stupid
> people at school are morons
> people at work are morons
> people in government are morons
> finally go home to talk to people with brains
> the other autists are morons
> the other trans people are morons
> literally nobody thinks beyond "this feels right" about anything
i'm no rocket surgeon but i still feel like i'm completely alone except for like 3 people. please tell me at least one of you has a worldview based on something smart

>>40778942 (OP)

>look in the mirror
>see a moron

>>40778958
when im a moron, i work to become less of one. it's not hard.

>>40778977

expound upon your ideas, anon, lets see what you got

>>40778992
well, mostly i think we as a species should always do our best to raise the quality of life for the people who have it the worst, no matter what charictaristics they have (race sex etc). SUPER DUMB i know, but. there's literally never a good reason to look at the hypothetical future where no child goes hungry, nobody is tortured, where prisoners can actually get lives instead of being funneled through the prison system forever, to look at all the good we can do, and say: "nah let's kill each other because im too dumb to imagine how that's possible." which, btw, actually means "i'm too brainwashed by capitalism and the CIA to think of a world where they don't exist". even if you think "no way *insert slur here* could let that exist", it's still better selfishly for YOU SPECIFICALLY to take care of the least fortunate, because THAT COULD BE YOU ONE DAY. and the more threats you take away from the people in power, the more YOU control THEM, not the other way around. Pretty simple.

(alsoooo side note, all races have the same fundamental psychology and brain chemistry, it's just how the world is set up where some races are more likely to be born into situations where they learn to act in certain ways. i'm just gonna ignore anyone who says otherwise because they're either feds, so hateful they might as well be feds, or just plain uncreative.)

>>40779044
this sounds smart. but it's not anything radical, everyone i know would read that paragraph and agree with it so what do you mean?

>>40779057
>all races have the same fundamental psychology and brain chemistry, it's just how the world is set up where some races are more likely to be born into situations where they learn to act in certain ways.
It's hard to reconcile that with the fact that bringing up the issues prominent in certain racial communities is now considered racism.
Blockading honest discussion about, for instance, crime in black communities, has resulted in both more racism and more suffering in black communities.
Everyone loses.

>>40779044
>>40778942 (OP)
well yeah but i think it makes more sense when you look in day to day lives; it’s not relevant to most people what their broader worldview is. and if you think about it logically you will come to accept that this is an inevitable part of human nature
like there is no world in which the majority of people aren’t like this the majority of the time. and like obviously that leads to exceptional harm and suffering but it would never be any other way so u sorta gotta learn to make peace with it one way or another
and the amount of people who are morons but can not be if u give them the chance is high.
and likewise the amount of people who had this same revelation but decided to mostly ignore it so they could be happier and more functional in society if they didn’t worry about it much
t. had this phase and mostly ignores it to be more functional in society

>>40779061
god who the fuck do you know? seriously though, it's a lot rarer to actually get into the weeds of what that'd mean.
it would mean majorly abolishing capitalism.
it would mean stopping genocide even by countries you like.
even by countries you didn't even KNOW were doing it.
even by YOUR country.
it would mean building apartments and houses for homeless people in your city.
it would mean having a ex-felon as a neighbor.
it would mean having an ex-homeless person as a neighbor.
it would mean having black neighbors, it would mean DEI, it would mean genuinely, HARSHLY criticising ideas you've spent your whole life believing, it would mean that in some aspects, your life would get worse! the military would shirk MAJORLY. to top it all off, it would mean pretty much giving up on AI, and a MASSIVE restructuring of the entire internet. the benefits are worth it objectively, but can you honestly say EVERYONE you know would support ALL OF THIS? if you can say yes, you are genuinely blessed.

>>40779088
yea! not discussing these issues causes huge problems to get worse, but that's not what i mean. i mean nobody is "genetically inferior" to anybody else, i.e. has less value as a human being. THAT idea is what i will not give the light of day. you wanna talk about overpolicing and socioeconomics though, then i'd genuinely love to

>>40779125
i went to an arts high school and go to a very liberal college
i think what you're saying sounds good, but i don't know because i'm not educated.

Dude you're a literary NPC. With a typical solipsistic view of the world (most common for NPCs). Just think about it

>>40779092
i know, it sucks though. ignorance is the default for most people, it's tearing the world apart and causing untold suffering both in my personal life and for literally all of humanity, and it sucks. i'm not in denial, i just don't like it and it upsets me.

>>40778942 (OP)
reddit post

>>40779147
god i wish everyone thought like me. not even an ego thing, it genuinely makes my life materially better because i like to learn, and i'm not scared of painful, painful truths. if that were the NPC default for everyone, we'd be in better times.

>>40779162
this is so woke for 4chan lol, i feel like i'm back at my hippie high school

>>40779044
You’re a cool person anon. I don’t have time to read the rest of the thread, but in general, I agree with what you’re saying. A lot of people lack emotional intelligence and EQ and as a society we suffer for it.

>>40779125

this is a perfectly reasonable set of things to think. it sounds like what you want isn't necessarily a 'smart' community but a community that is in alignment with your political beliefs. i say this because you will find some extremely intelligent people who believe in retarded things, and some stupid people who none the less have immense wisdom
i would suggest finding an appropriate community to fulfil this part of yourself and also just following the other anon's advice to learn to ignore it
the reason everything is like this and we don't live in a world that works to the common good is because we live in hell.
to function you mostly have to get used to it. one day you can pick the battle you want to take on and work to make it better. till then, put your nose to the grindstone.

t. also had this phase

>>40779182
i get this a decent amount, and like. i do function, is the thing. aside from not having hrt, and the general depression i feel sometimes (both because of that and just because we live in hell as you said), i'm nowhere near being a NEET or anything. i live a pretty boring life still, hence all the aimless thinking that lead me here, but i like where i am as a human being mostly! i have a family who gets me, friends who love me, and genuinely great prospects in life all things considered. I know one day i'll pick something to put most of my "activist tendencies" towards, etc etc, and i know my specific brand of making things better isn't the only valid kind, too. I like to consider myself a very self aware person, if nothing else.

Still, it is a valid point to make. Having all of this in your head constantly is a very quick way towards severe depression, as past me knows very well. I keep it in my pocket for when it's useful or i can help, and i focus on other things when that's what's important in the moment. I'm not perfect, but i try to be smart and use the intelligence i have to be a good person, as thats all anyone can really do.

>>40779236

DIY now take your pills nona
and yeah no benefit to wallowing in despair

>>40779179
thank you!

>>40779246
oh BELIEVE ME i'm trying LOL. I literally just have no dosh, know what im saying? like, i spent my last $20 on gas LOL.

>>40779044
moron

>>40779164
a lot of people think like you, you are a left wing populist. you right now are at the peak of dunning kruger
>>40779125
>abolish capitalism
LOL.

>>40779044
Counterargument: some people are just horribly unproductive and no amount of investment will help them. We definitely should try rescuing unfortunate people and design systems that don't traumatize them, but blankly giving away resources to everyone in need will just piss away these resources.

>>40778942 (OP)
i know alot of crazy fucked up truths.
but i still do what i do.

once you figure it out, jump back in.

>>40779255

maybe focus your energies on this, then. HRT should be your #1 priority because it will make everything else a lot easier. it's 100 bucks for 6 full months.

>>40779369
here's the thing: that's not true, it's been verified to not be an issue in large scale universal basic income tests, but honestly, i have a feeling that isnt very important to you.
i personally know many, MANY disabled people who, even the more ""useless"" ones, still contribute to society in meaningful ways. we very much overproduce enough to the point that we could take care of the world's population comfortably. just imagine all the man hours spent making funko pops or labubus or whatever the fuck other mass produced garbage. if JUST those were put to actual use, we would be covered on all the people who don't or can't or even wouldnt want to, work.
again, probably won't convince you, but acording to a decent number of scientists, it's true.
to be honest, i don't have too many sources on hand, but im honestly not interested in a pedantic "oooo show me ur source!!1!" type deal. it's kinda pointless on the internet as im sure you've seen.

I will say this though: what do you get out of your rather defeatist counter? "it's impossible so we should give up, or start killing people," is what you get. I belive if we can land on the moon and put people in space, we can find a way to make the future better. is it wrong? maybe. do i want to find out, the hard way? yes, yes i do. if i'm going to give up hope, i want it beaten out of me.

>>40779057
>(alsoooo side note, all races have the same fundamental psychology and brain chemistry, it's just how the world is set up where some races are more likely to be born into situations where they learn to act in certain ways. i'm just gonna ignore anyone who says otherwise because they're either feds, so hateful they might as well be feds, or just plain uncreative.)
there's some evidence to suggest this might be untrue (but it's unproven, for sure)

the problem is if your liberal ideology hinges on this being the case then you're not a true liberal. racism is wrong and anti-racism is correct and moral whether or not intelligence differences are 100% environmental 0% genetic or 0% environmental 100% genetic or anything in between

>>40779044
blaming human conflict on capitalism and the CIA is extremely silly and almost always totally wrong

your heart is in the right place but you're blaming the wrong things

your original post is much more correct. capitalism is not the problem. hatred and conflict and bigotry are largely a result of stupidity and sometimes also psychopathy; not capitalism

>>40779379
wait fr? shiiit man i might try a little harder if its that cheap. mostly now, im worried about a hack or something telling the government "hey! this guy's an easy target!" which, they probably already know, but if they make it illegal to buy it'll be a hell of a lot easier for them to find a reason to gank me. paranoia but like, it still gets me yk.

>>40779236
why don't you have HRT? it's so easy to get

>>40779404
i am cis and not trans but this is baffling to me

if i were trans i would do anything to get HRT ASAP. every day you don't get it is a day you masculinize and androgenize further. irreparably. permanently

it's like $12/month for 10 months of HRT. what the fuck are you doing

the DIY suppliers are not in the US and do not share information with governments. and even if you got it from a US doctor they wouldn't. and even if they did it's unlikely anything bad would happen to you even if trump gets even worse

>>40779408
lack of money, and fear. mostly fear, but the lack of money is an easier pill to swallow for me than the fact that i'm a bit of a coward LMAO.

>>40779404

diy hrt dot wiki
hrt cafe dot net

get injectibles begin the transition the sooner the better go go go don't grow up ugly old hairy

t. manmoder

>>40779398
And who gets to decide if funko pops and labubus are useful? Lmao?

Look up empire of dust and realize that simply helping people directly just means pissing resources away

>>40778942 (OP)
Gay bashing is based actually

>>40779421

they want you dead already, the NSA already knows you jerk it to sissy hypno. the best thing you can do is not enter the medical system and stay stealthed but do take HRT fucking DO IT

>>40779421
even if it were $1000/year i would do everything i can to get it if i were trans. sex work even

and it's so much less than that

>>40779418
mostly i dont care if i masculanize honestly. one, im 18 and i don't care about the little shit that changes. i'll worry once i get closer to like 25.
two, i'm already pretty feminine as is for whatever reason. three, i honestly am on the fence of how my gender is, yk? four, i think i'm hot as is, imperfections and all. which is cringe, but i'm happy, so i dont care.

all that considered, yea i want estrogen ASAP LMAOOOOO. i'm just lazy to an UNGODLY degree. or depressed, but like the effect on my life is the same.

honestly i have a million little reasons why im not doing it, but it definitely feels like a cover for some unholy monster of a feeling that evades me, now that i think about it closer. scary, but honestly its probably just internalized transphobia or something i can deal with.

who knows? i'll work on it when i can. (also side note, everyone shares info with governments, they just don't know).

>>40779443
get over it you don't understand just how bad it gets year after year there are permanent changes you are just throwing away right now every day please for the love of god whatever is stopping you have to get over it

>>40779429
honestly yea, that is a useful question! i personally find them to be disgusting and useless, but honestly that's just me using that as an example because i don't like them. you're a smart person probably, you KNOW there are a lot of completely useless things we do that provide nothing. we can make optimizations, enough so that we don't NEED to take away anyone's rights. if any one person doesn't have the rights owed to all people, then NOBODY has rights. it's just privileges for people the government likes, at that point. if you don't care about the humanity of disabled people, then care about your own ass.

>>40779443
>mostly i dont care if i masculanize honestly. one, im 18 and i don't care about the little shit that changes. i'll worry once i get closer to like 25.
>two, i'm already pretty feminine as is for whatever reason. three, i honestly am on the fence of how my gender is, yk? four, i think i'm hot as is, imperfections and all. which is cringe, but i'm happy, so i dont care.

with all due respect this doesn't make sense to me. even if you have 0 gender dysphoria it still makes no sense. it only makes sense if you legit want to just be like a rugged masculine man with facial hair, which is fine but then how would you be trans

i don't think you see the extent to which your post makes no sense. it doesn't matter at all how feminine or twinkish you look right now. you could hit your "true puberty" / "second puberty" tomorrow. even if you don't your post still makes no sense

again, i don't think you need to have gender dysphoria to be trans. you do need to desire to permanently look more like the opposite sex to be trans. if you don't want to do that, you aren't transgender. if you do want to do that, your behavior is completely irrational

i am not trans but like i am actually irked by how illogical this is

>>40779457
Who gets to decide what's getting optimized? If all of humanity got to decide, they'd "optimize" trannies - they genuinely hate us. Free market is a compromise because individual humans cannot be trusted - and even if they can, there's just too much to decide.

Also FUCKING GET ON HRT YOU'RE 18 WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING, 18-25 wrecks us tranners real bad don't ruin your life

>>40779088
>Blockading honest discussion about, for instance, crime in black communities, has resulted in both more racism and more suffering in black communities.

anon, black people already talk about crime in black communities (and overpolicing, which is also an everpresent physical danger). We just don't talk about it to you personally.

Younger black people tend to not like discussing it with nonblack people because it's almost always used as a deflection or distraction from whatever they were talking about, and is usually also dogwhistle for how violent and dumb we are.

At minimum, it demonstrates how disconnected the person bringing it up is to black people and majority black communities. saying "why does nobody talk about black on black crime?" automatically shows that you are not someone who's going to have much useful to say about it.

>>40779428
>>40779434
>>40779437
>>40779450
shit i mean, yall kind of obsess over this sort of thing don't you? i can understand why i'd be pissing you off by being like this. honestly i'm working through a lot of complex feelings about it. honestly, i know it pains you for me to say it, i really do, but i don't want to ever make myself feel like i'm "ruined".
I'm a whole human being. I can be ugly, old, hot, young, passing, a "hon", and i won't lose value over it. i might be happier one way or another, but that won't ruin me. i'm not scared of what my body will become, no matter what i do.

I say that, but then i delay hrt. it's pretty hypocritical of me, i admit it. honestly i'm just not sure what to do. I don't know if the joy of transition will be worth the constant rejection from people; i'm actually pretty sensitive to it, in all honesty. I know i can be happy as a man. i know that if i don't decide to transition, i will simply end up an ugly little italian type with love in his heart all the same. society would rather that for me, but i don't know what i truly want. it's not fun to watch, im sure, but its not fun to live either.

saying all that, i'm still gonna work on HRT cause i know i'd regret not doing it. yall've convinced me i cant lie. i'll work on it, i have a plan to get it in maybe the next few months/weeks.

>>40779477
no disrespect, but it's a lot more complicated than that and i can do whatever the hell i want. it might be illogical to you, but thats literally all feelings.

to me, identites are only as valuable as they are useful. i go by "trans" because i have experiences that align with trans people's experiences. in all reality i'm a deeply fragmented personality with so much contratiction i should write a second bible, but that's not a useful part of me for what i want to discuss right now. i'm not any one identity or set of them, i am what i am, with no way to cage that in. there are only useful lenses to look through. same with all people, in my opinion

>>40779503

3 of those posts are me, and i'm also >>40779182
you do not fucking understand, okay? you don't fucking get it. i'm a leftie, but the incels are just correct on this one - passoids and hot people get treated better by the world. the world is a fucking violent place and you can think you have an infinite resevoir of self esteem that can survive all the world's hatred but you don't, okay? you don't. you will break and you will kill yourself.
to not take HRT ASAP and letting masculinization rape. it will make you ugly, it will make everyone and everything treat you worse, it will break you down. do not let this happen to you. for the fucking love of god do not let this happen to you. i don't have my HRT right now and i would grab a tire iron and beat you to death if it meant i didn't have to worry about it ever again. i'd do worse to be in your position in life. every day of my life is agony because i missed out on the best years of my life, i want to peel off my skin and break all my bones, i want to scream every second of my life, there's nothing that i wouldn't do to get those years back GET HRT you stupid fucking retarded faggot tranny troon out right now

please don't make my mistakes, okay? get HRT

t. manmoder

>>40779481
honestly you're making good points. personally, in my view free market has already proven to be a toxic cesspit which is actively making the world worse, though.

in a perfect world, or at least aproaching it, the government would be held deeply acountable to the will of the people, and the people would all be educated very well. that is the only society i can forsee existing in a way i'd find acceptable; stable and kind. the free market optimizes according to the will of ignorant, hateful people, because that's the type of person who holds power as a majority in our world.

i'd say that the people who decide what gets optimized are the people who know industries deeply and who are themselves educated well on the effects of what they're doing. im not advocating for sweeping cuts, that's insane. okay maybe the military if we do it carefully. but in general, i know we can support all people and let them live as they choose, and if we can't, i know we can figure it out given enough effort and time.

>>40778942 (OP)
>replacing your unfounded ideas with ones based on science and critical thinking
Give examples. They'll tease out whether you're an otherwise normal teenager going through their main character phase, or whether you're a retard scientism acolyte who thinks they can solve the world with empirical analysis

>>40779537
sorry about that, first thing, it's late and i cant read properly LMAO. second off, i understand why you're mad, really i do. and i know i'm not indestructable, hell i've tried to kill myself before, hence why im on 4chan. the thing is, i'm fucking scared!! i'm already pretty ugly objectively, even though i think i'm hot sometimes, yk? im scared i wont pass like ever, which i know is fucking. UGH!!! Look, i'm gonna get HRT. you can calm down. thinking about being a guy in my 20's makes me want to die, so i get that. I'm sorry that you're suffering, nona.

>>40779044
>raise quality of life for the worst

Dumb retard you have no idea how the world actually works. Go outside then you will realise who the moron is.

>SUPER DUMB I know

You obviously do not know. If you know tell me why it’s dumb then… you did not explain that.

>>40779125
You don’t even know what capitalism is kid.

>>40779125
>DEI
oh your American. That explains it. I’m sorry for your loss. Leave America. Maybe after 10 years you will be able to see what the world actually is. Maybe not maybe your too broken.

>>40779604
okay cool also why are you even on this website? what are you lacking from other websites? you seem like a relatively normie leftie zoomer, go onto some zoomer leftie subreddit/discord

>>40779581
well for one i used to be a nazi so write that down, that's a pretty big fuck-up. you can't solve the world, period, but you can sure as shit try to make things better. we know empirically what WILL make things better. you assume humanity is stupider than it really is.

hell, i probably am going through a bit of a phase, but that doesn't mean i don't have good ideas sometimes. i'm wrong about things, i don't know what they are, but i know they're there. if i fix them as i learn about them, i'm at least going to improve over time, and that's the best anyone can do.

>>40779560
>the government would be held deeply acountable to the will of the people, and the people would all be educated very well
You can achieve this by taking away voting privileges from the uneducated ;3

>>40779604
>i’ve tried to kill myself before

Behold the genius. The absolute FEATS of problem solving such a superior mind is capable of! I am just blown away. Are you not!? She makes everything look so easy! I wish I was as smart as her! Aw shucks guess I’m stuck being average… I’m just a moron I guess… :(

>>40779653
>we know empirically what WILL make things better
Do we? Do you? What data have you collected? Over what time horizon? With what priorities for outcome?
By all means focus on improving over time, but assuming your age based on these text dumps, also appropriately weigh that you've got hardly any life experience, and that you're nothing special, lots of intelligent people have existed before you and statistically most of them left a near-zero impact on the planet.

>>40779651
to be honest, i was sad and i wanted to find more reasons to be sad, so i went here. as i started reading though i just kinda realized like, one this isnt really making me all that sad or hopeless, two, yall have a certain style about you!

you're absolutely unfiltered. i grew up in spaces like this, so i'm used to it, but i've been in more self censoring places more recently, and i was wondering what it would be like to go back.

i know for certain that everyone saying shit here probably means it at least a little, or is trying to get a rise out of people. it's the only truly honest place i know. earlier some girl called me a retard for not taking HRT and like, she meant it because she cares, yk? that's fucking rare man.

plus, im not afraid of people who don't agree with me, unlike reddit or discord or whatever. trawling cesspits is my happy place.

>>40779657
or, better idea, if we make it more accesible to vote for everyone, and increase education access and quality, there will be fewer uneducated people to mess up elections, AND we secure voting rights for everyone because we don't need to weed out anyone with tests that are very very very likely to be biased against minorites.

>>40779668
im not claiming to be a superior mind, man. im just admiting my faults and trying to grow. theres no shame in that, at least not to me

>>40779657
a university degree does not equal intelligence, only wealth.
taking away it away from people without any educatition will only negativly effect racialized, transfeminized, and generally poor people.

>>40779685
then idk you're a kid man, kids have all sorts of thoughts. tons of people think they know how to fix the world. as you grow up you'll realise you didn't know much of fuck all and become more humble. the retards trying to debate with a know-it-all 18 year old aren't much better. some shit will remain obviously true (nazis are retarded, we probably shouldn't let 8 dudes own half our wealth) while other things will have more nuance.
go to /lit/ or something if you wanna chat politics with a bunch of pretentious pseuds.
t. anon who called you retard (you are)

>>40779683
thats cool and all, but nobody leaves zero impact on the planet. as long as i improve it even by the slightest bit, im happy with it.

also, my sources are mostly things i KNOW you'd disagree with, so i'm not going to provide any, or ask you to provide any. we both have our own sides and im not asking you to agree or die, i just want to talk, yk? there's no stakes here, nobody is realistically going to change their minds. have fun with it man!

>>40779717
i know, an yea, most of what you say is probably true. i think im decently humble though, besides all the shit i say when im emotional or whatever. i just think we should listen to credited scientists and not hate each other, and im extrapolating from that. if you think im an idiot then like, thats fine, i think so too, but i get a little less dumb over time, yk? im under no impression that i know everything, i just know some stuff and i like to know more. i know im repeating myself LOL, it's just how i like to live. that way the only shame i have is my actions.

>>40779734
I didn't say zero. I said near-zero. For someone putting on airs of intelligence, that's a rather dumb reframe to a claim I didn't make.
0.000000001% impact is infinitely more than zero impact, and yet is still negligible in the grand scheme of things.
My point isn't whether or not you're going to change the world, my point is to get you to lower your confidence interval by one or two pegs.

>>40779765
man you're so young its crazy

>>40779768
oh shit my bad i misread it. and yea! like, im still young and i have a lot of misplaced confidence, i still feel like i could do kung fu on a burgalar and win even though ik id get rekt, like. i get it yk? i try to stay humble but im just SO AWESOME, lol.

personally i think all humans are both inconsequential, and yet so, so important, you know? like, my family is the main reason i keep going, that and my pets. and that's like 2 people and 2 animals. completely worthless in the grand scheme, and yet they're my whole world practically. the thing is, humans don't tend to live in the grand scheme. most people, you and I included, live in the inconsequential muck. what's worthless to the world is worth everything down here, and that's all we can control, 99% of the time. why not try and do what you can?

>>40779044
You wrote a whole marxist fanfic just to say ‘don’t be mean.’ this is middle-school diary energy.

>“Always help the worst off, no matter what.”
Absolute rules collapse on contact with tradeoffs. Resources are finite. Every dollar to X is a dollar not to Y. “No matter what” ignores cases where aid creates perverse incentives or funds people actively harming others. Triage exists for a reason.

>“There’s never a good reason to oppose the utopia (no hunger, no torture, fully reformed prisons).”
You smuggle the outcome and skip the mechanism. Ends are easy. Means are hard. To get “no hunger” you need production, logistics, incentives, and governance that does not implode. To get “no torture” you need enforcement across actors who are willing to break rules. To get “no prison pipeline” you need a crime model that handles violent repeat offenders. Saying “never a good reason to oppose” ignores costs, coercion risk, and failure modes. Utopia is not a plan.

>“If you doubt it, you’re too dumb to imagine how it’s possible.”
Ad hominem in a lab coat. Doubt is rational when proposals are underspecified. Skepticism is not stupidity. It is a request for a model with constraints.

>“It’s all capitalism and the CIA brainwashing you.”
Unfalsifiable scapegoat. Markets exist in every complex society because they allocate scarce stuff decently well compared to command dreams. Intelligence agencies exist because other states run theirs. Neither claim answers the how. If your thesis works only when an invisible puppet master is blamed, you do not have a thesis.

>“Even if you think ‘insert slur’ would not allow it, it is still selfishly better to take care of the least fortunate since that could be you one day.”
Risk pooling logic is fine. The policy version is not automatic. Universal safety nets vs targeted aid vs growth-first models have different effects on mobility and dependency. “Could be you” is not a cost-benefit analysis. Probability and incentives matter.

>>40779792
okay fair, i did kinda get a little fanfic-y with it. incoming schrodingers douchebag, but i wasn't exactly planning a presidential campaign because im just here for fun mostly.

> absolute rules...
they did tests of universal basic income and it helped a lot. a lot of theory and discussion and research has been had about UBI for years, it's not insane. btw, almost ALL of the things i talked about have been implemented in real life sucessfully to some degree.

> you smuggle the outcome...
yea, i did, but like. all the stuff you said are things that happen? we incentivise stuff all the time, we enforce laws all the time (lmao?) we handle repeat offenders already?? we can just be more humane and focus on outcomes instead of profit and punishment like with private prisons.

which, yea, no shit, is gonna take a lot of restructuring of culture and government, but like? one, that's not impossible, we've done it before. two, who wants an 18 year old with mental issues to plan this shit out? it's up to people smarter than me, i'm just here.

>ad hominem..
uea. i mean if you wanna just give up, ill admit it, i think it's dumb. im not a genius myself, but it's pretty obvious you miss every shot you don't take, yk?

>unfalsifiable scapegoat...
i mean, capitalists and the CIA have a direct interest in maintaining and growing power, they have a lot of it, they've done shit to manipulate populations and governments before, and they have a direct interest in keeping people too distracted and poor to think about the systems affecting them. maybe its unfalsifyable, but like, it's pretty likely to me. maybe im wrong, but it's what i think.

>risk pooling logic...
continiued:

(cont.)
i mean, it kind of is. just for example, if you have a problem with your boss, are you going to try to unionize if that could get you in hot water with him, ending with you being jobless and potentially on the street? proooobably not, right? but, if you have UBI, you might think "hey, i'm not gonna potentially ruin my life if i organize, maybe i should stand up to him!"

unions have proven time and time again to make workers lives better, hence why amazon and other large companies don't like them, because it makes it harder to profit. UBI gives everyone a safety net to allow riskier choices which let them live more fufilling lives doing what they want to do.

say what you like, at least i'm thinking through what i believe in

>>40779844
>i mean, capitalists and the CIA have a direct interest in maintaining and growing power
NTA. All groups have a direct interest in maintaining and growing power. It's not a unique feature of capitalists and the CIA, and it's omnipresent in the supposed alternatives.

>>40779873
yea, i actually hard agree. its just that the CIA and captialists (and others but those two just stick in my mind, im not unbiased LOL) have a lot a lot of power and we KNOW they do shady shit daily. stands to reason they'd do what benefits them directly, which is making common people hate eachother over petty shit like race.

>>40779890
>which is making common people hate eachother over petty shit like race.
How does this benefit capitalists?

>>40778942 (OP)
>having a worldview
Babby wants a simplified mental construct that stands out from everyone else’s? Why don’t you just play it by ear

>>40779873
and i just re-read this, so, about
> supposed alternatives

i'm iffy on the idea that any civilization or society can stay corruption free for even long periods of time, but im not an anarchist because, well i just don't get it and i think the idea is a little too pie-in-the-sky, even for me LOL.

that's why i think any government meant to do good by its people should be scrutinized to hell and back by a smart populus who knows their rights and who deeply understand civics. i'd want them to know much, much more than me (cause i don't know that much about it honestly, besides what i can logic out). preferably i'd want education to be something people do for their whole lives, in fact. that's the only way i see it working.

>>40779895
short answer: bread and circuses.
long answer: if people blame all their problems on each other, then they won't all independantly figure out their real enemy is the group of shady, extremely powerful people mingling with the government who hold so so much of the wealth. the fact that idea of what i just described gets conflated with jews is something i am confident is a psyop. if everyone were free of propaganda, they'd (mostly) all individually conclude that it's capitalists, who are known to do anything for profit including mind bendingly evil shit, that they should rally against. and if the entire population, or even a decent chunk decide they want you out of power, then you're FUCKED.

so, they keep people fighting about petty shit so that they don't do that.

>>40779911
>a smart populus
What do you plan to do with the sub-80 IQ population?

>>40779924
actually, most people are pretty darn smart. like, obviously some people have mental issues, but even a large portion of them just need particular attention tuned to their needs. the set of people who are genuinely so mentally incapable that they wouldn't be able to contribute in that way, just wouldnt. that's not a large enough subsect to kill a whole society. it's just not, you know? most people are pretty capable, more would be too if we wanted them to be.

>>40779921
A more apt way of putting that would be rent seekers, which are parasitic and rely on obfuscation to continue to siphon value from society without producing it.
Mosquitoes use numbing agents so that you dont notice theyre stealing your blood, its pretty much just that.

>>40779944
yea! that's exactly right. honestly what i gotta work on is translating some of these ideas into words that make sense to more people.

>>40779938
>that's not a large enough subsect to kill a whole society. it's just not, you know?
9% of humans have an 80 or lower IQ. That's over 10x the popular vote margin of the 2024 election.

>>40779963
one, the gerrymandering in the USA is fucked to hell and back, two, what makes you think that number will stay the same with more education? smarts is largely not determined by genetics (USUALLY there are obviously exceptions), it's about access, quality, and acomidations for learning speed etc. people would be smarter in the hypothetical im describing.

if you're playing the sims and your sim burns the house down making grilled cheese, is it just a particularly dumb sim or should you have gotten a better quality stove? maybe both, but check the stove first you know?

>>40779995
>what makes you think that number will stay the same with more education?
There's a singular organization whose job it is to take the bottom rungs of society and find any possible use or rehabilitation for them, and that's the US army. They've determined that sub-80 IQ is useless, even in wartime.
Why do you think the number can change significantly with education?
>it's about access, quality, and acomidations for learning speed etc. people would be smarter in the hypothetical im describing
Are you aware that some of the worst states for educational outcomes are those that spend the most per child and are obsessive about these sorts of accomodations?

>>40779957
It wouldnt make a difference, socialism is written about by plenty of smart people extensively in many forms. People are just too emotionally driven and respond to fear and anger more than anything else. In the us their biggest fear is hell and theyre angry at anyone who doesnt fear hell as much as they do. You have to either convince them hell isnt real or that its the result of fascism, but religious institutions are all super right wing so theres no authority or organization arguing it.

>>40780023
you wanna tell me that the education system in the us is effective lmao? so, because the US education system, notorious world wide for being awful, can't help people, nothing probably can? there's no way that's actually what you believe, so i want you to please elaborate.

also,
> even in wartime
yea man, i wouldn't wanna give someone like that a gun either. not like they're useless or not people or whatever, it's just obviously a bad idea. war isnt the end-all-be-all of contribution.

>worst states spend the most
money spent =/= quality. see: american healthcare results vs price payed.

>>40780077
pshhhhh yeaaa that's one of the things i definitely don't know how to fix. like, education, sure, but actually helping people alive right now who are like that? noooooo clue. im glad i'm not expected to know everything cause i'd be fuuuuuuuucked

>>40779844
>“UBI worked in tests, not insane.”
Pilot programs =/= scaling a nation. Small samples under specific conditions don’t prove sustainability, long-term effects, or unintended consequences. “It helped a lot” isn’t data, it’s vibes.

>“Everything you listed already happens, so we can just do it better.”
Enforcing laws ≠ guaranteeing humane, efficient outcomes. “Just do it better” is not a plan, it’s a slogan. Private prisons exist because incentives matter. Pretending you can just swap profit out for vibes ignores why systems entrench.

>“Restructuring culture and government isn’t impossible.”
Sure, not impossible. But hand-waving the hardest part as “we’ve done it before” is like saying “just cure cancer, we’ve cured colds.” Scale and resistance matter.

>“I’m only 18, not planning a campaign, smarter people will do it.”
Translation: “I don’t have to defend feasibility, because daddy government will.” You can’t float world-ending changes and then duck behind age/intent when pressed.

>“If you give up, you miss every shot.”
That’s not an argument. That’s a motivational poster. Taking dumb shots is still dumb.

>“Capitalists and CIA have an interest in keeping people poor/distracted.”
Yes, powerful groups protect power. That’s tautology, not analysis. Calling it “pretty likely” and unfalsifiable at the same time is a confession you’ve replaced evidence with vibes.

>“UBI lets people unionize, unions make life better.”
Unions succeed or fail based on leverage and economics, not because everyone has $1k/month. A UBI doesn’t remove employer incentives to automate, outsource, or crush unions harder. You’ve swapped a slogan for a cost-benefit.

>“At least I’m thinking through what I believe.”
Thinking ≠ rigor. Writing a diary of utopian vibes is not analysis. You’re mistaking volume of words for depth of thought.

>>40780100
idk man, im trying. we can get back to why im stupid in a minute, but i wanna ask: what's your idea? what policies do you want implimented?

>>40780081
>i wouldn't wanna give someone like that a gun either
Military use has significant variety beyond frontline soldier. Most low IQ folks do supply work or sanitation at base or in logistics hubs.
>worst states spend the most
More specifically, spend the most to enshrine the precise sort of accommodative learning you're describing. Regardless of what you think about the American system overall, focusing on raising up the low IQ people correlates with worse overall outcomes for everyone.
Do you have a example abroad of rehabilitating low-IQ individuals in the wild that isn't some 50 person study?

More generally, I want you to pay attention to the oversimplification slope you're currently running.
>we can fix things by just making the public smarter
>we can fix the measurably incapable by just educating them
>we can fix the bad educational outcomes by just doing something else
There'a value in being an optimist, but this sort of thing is masturbatory.

>>40780100
>“It helped a lot” isn’t data, it’s vibes.
> “Just do it better” is not a plan, it’s a slogan.
>≠

Is this fucking chatgpt

>>40780120
>doesn't have the ≠ alt code memorized
ngmi

>>40780120
Nah, this is just what it sounds like when someone uses their brain, instead of writing Tumblr fanfic and calling it policy. Also the does not equal symbol is Alt + 8800 on your keyboard squigga.

>>40780120
ohh my god it is LMAOOOO i got baited. ngl it worked pretty well too, idk if its cause its late or cause this guy was irritating me but i have a headache now lol

>>40780100
also i just re read this shit
> "world ending policy changes"

im fucking dying LMAOOOO
yea guys im gonna destroy the world with my ideas guys. im actually in the oval office right now

>>40780138
>>40780151

he wasn't really using chatgpt he's just pretentious. go to sleep kid, don't come back

>>40780116
honestly, i feel like you're misrepresenting me. im not saying we can "fix" anything, thats just kinda meaningless. we can make things better, thats all i want. literally i dont know what to tell you. better educated people tend to lean more left, educated people produce more value, we know the US education system can be better and hasnt been updated in meaningfully practice in literally a hundred years. all im doing is connecting the dots in a way that makes sense to me.

also
>masturbatory
yeaaa im cumming im jerkin my shit to this utopia in my brain man oooo it feels so good

>>40780167
yea i figured after i looked a little closer. chatgpt would be slightly less crass. also nahhh im having fun

>>40780169
You can hotswap "fix" with "measurably inprove" and the criticism still stands.

>>40780169
>educated people produce more value
Historically, yes. Recently, no.

>>40780173
can you? "we can measureably improve things by making people smarter" is pretty reasonable imo. could we measurably make things worse if people got stupider? i think sooooo

>>40780183
>can you?
Yes.
>we can improve things by just making the public smarter
>we can improve the measurably incapable by just educating them
>we can improve the bad educational outcomes by just doing something else
Each step is another hurdle whose surface area is being rhetorically sanded down to "its fine just do it". Oversimplification slope.

>>40780176
true, actually. honestly take this one with a grain of salt but i think the main thing is that we arent mesuring the kind of value education brings in the modern day. like "make more hamburgers per minute" isnt realistically gonna go up with a degree, but there are things other than that which get increased with education, things that still meaningfully benefit society. or something.

>>40780207
Thatcher disproved the existence of society.

>>40780199
man i didnt say "just". these are very complicated issues. the things im suggesting would HELP. if we figured out more effective ways to educate people, we could educate people more effectively and therefore gain the benefits of having a more educated society.

really overly simple metaphor here, but it describes how i feel like you're describing:
"whacking people with a stick until they guess the right answer is already fine, you can't just 'explain the reasoning'. you're oversimplifying how complicated it would be to explain it to them cause they're so stupid!"

like forgive the strawman but it's what you're giving off, yk?

>>40780223
>the things im suggesting would HELP
But you're not suggesting anything. As the other anon pointed out to you, youre proposing the ends and bypassing the means. Which is why the way you talk implies the "just", even if you do acknowledge the complexity.

>>40780236
i think the issue is like. there are means that i am referencing but just not describing in detail. education reform is a pretty big movement all things considered and you can ask them about theory. i honestly don't give a shit to know the ins and outs of what they're suggesting, i just know the very basics and that there are a lot of highly educated, knowledgable, experienced people working towards and advocating for it.

i can see how "make education more effective" on the surface isnt saying anything, ill give you that, but what i MEAN is "use new methods in teaching, motivated and guided by people who know what they're fucking doing, to improve the shit tier quality of the modern us education system so that we stop having so many easily manipulated people fucking up our elections and being hateful assholes constantly."

i think you'd have a bit more fun (or at least a different kind of fun, i know poking holes in peoples arguments is fun, i've been there), if you just gave people the benefit of the doubt sometimes, you know? im not a complete imbecile.

>>40779044


This is something I wrote that you might like. What you are saying, is radical, don't be gaslit. Humans are willing slaves.

Having children is bad, there's no need to promote life before securing happiness. Society is a distraction from happiness.
Happiness is good. Anything that distracts from happiness is bad. These should be your definitions of good and bad. If they terrify you it's because you've been told all your life that things that don't always bring you happiness are "good," pragmatic, sacrifice happiness in some area of your life to introduce it in another.
A car is "good" because it gets you to work despite traffic. Meat is "good" because of the taste despite the process. Our relation with god is "good" because of blessings despite our sin.
There's a point where you accept "good" to be at peace with how this world has failed you. You submit to it's dominaton of your mind in hopes of being spared. Or cling to a sense of identity full of familiar suffering, that began when your parents forced you to compromise in childhood, taught you "right" from "wrong". So you inevitably loose track of good and miss opportunities for a happier life.
The purpose of my rehtoric is to help address all suffering. Whether we do is irrelevant, it exposes the confusion and suffering "good" rehtoric reinforces.
We should acknowledge everyone has equal access to good: the murderer, the abuser, the cheater, the stealer. If that makes them happy, we don't have to allow them. We must understand what makes them happy to maximize happiness in society, not hide behind "good" rehtoric. Not call their suffering good.
If everyone's satisfied there's no need to have children. There's no need to live a single second longer in fact, if we all die happy there's no one to lack happiness or be distracted. Explain why our rehtoric should not reflect this fact, why my way of thinking wouldn't make most happier.

If you want here's my disc: slavestay

>>40780270
>i honestly don't give a shit to know the ins and outs of what they're suggesting
It shows. It's also probably a problem if you're going to advocate for changes based off it.
> I just know the very basics and that there are a lot of highly educated, knowledgable, experienced people working towards and advocating for it.
This is called credentialism and it's a potential fallacy.
>just g[i]ve people the benefit of the doubt sometimes
I'd recommend you personally do less of this.

>>40780291
200 IQ post

>>40778942 (OP)
yea why do you think college educated people are overwhelmingly left leaning and poor dumb farmers are consistently racist, xenophobic and work against their own interests to place themselves in slavery again over and over.


why do you think there are hispanic people with immigrant parents voted for trump who are totally SHOCKED their parents got deported? you think these people are doing the research to try to understand objective reality?

I'll assume you are a high schooler or college student because this is the most banal and obvious position ever. yes, regardless of if you are a midwit or genuinely intelligent, the mere fact that you try to be a good person and accumulate wisdom already makes your better than 60% of the human population at least. that's just how the world is, you can't fundamentally change people except through societal shaming which is why we have any minimal social progress whatsoever. at there core people are the same as they were 15000 years ago.

>>40780311
> do less of this
that just sounds sad, ngl. my way is fine, if a little tiring sometimes. i just know there are people who are smarter than me and know more about it than me, a lot of them. i mean, why do you let some people run nuclear power plants if you're not a nuclear physicist? doctors if you don't understand medicine? you just trust these people not to fuck you up, what, just because they have "degrees"? thats a potential fallacy and yet there hasnt been a major nuclear accident in a good long while despite funding fuck ups constantly, and doctors everywhere are still saving lives. trusting experts is not always a bad idea. sure, sometimes it is, like the vaccines and autism thing, but the guy who wrote that got basically kicked out of science.

>>40780291
i like the cut of your gib! i sent you a frq

>>40780270
you're treating politics like its a hobby or a sports team, which is retarded (but common for kids). you need to know exactly enough politics to know how to conduct your life the way you want, vote in your own interest and see which way the wind is blowing
if you want to get politically awakened beyond that, you need to actually read and learn and treat it as a serious field of study, because it is. but the only reason to do that is if you are going to actually be involved in shaping the world i.e. if you want to be a politician or work under one.
politics shouldn't be anyone's hobby. that's how you get insufferable redditors and twitter users who treat the most important facet of human society (along with economics and history) like its a game, where you win points by scoring the best zingers, making the spiciest memes and racking up your imaginary internet points
you do this because we live in hell

i don't think i'd agree on much with what most of the other anons you're arguing with would say, but they're right in that you're pretty clearly undereducated. your current leftism is as shallow as your nazi phase, and it will be as shallow as whatever your next political costume is until you grow out of this.
get some real principles and real knowledge, and then talk

>>40780374
don't get groomed by a discord schizo you fucking retard holy shit

>>40780383
i appreciate the concern but im literally an adult. i know how to handle myself on the internet LMAO

>>40780378
okay, say i were looking for some "real principals" instead of mine which are bad and wrong for some reason unbeknownst to me, besides the fact that i care about people who aren't me. what do you suggest?

>>40780291
this would make sense if we were computers, unfortunately people have varying amounts of mental illness and biological drives. what makes you happy literally shifts based on your biological state. the starving man is happy when he finally gets food, the horny man is happy when he cooms, the dissociated sociopathic rich person who struggles for nothing feels happy when they scream at the barists over something minor because they are happy to feel anything at all. the depressed person can't feel happy. the victim of a war crime can't be happy as the bullet enters their guts and they fall backward into the mass grave. the mother sobbing over get deceased cancer victim child can't be happy.

at the end of the day "happy" is just the bodies way of rewarding objective accomplished and like all things in nature its a 'good enough' solution that's not really that good.

maybe you are low emotion or depressed or traumatized but at the end of the day what makes you happy will change according to your needs and struggles and cannot exist entirely in the realm of logic.

fuck, logically transitioning is stupid. its a waste of time. but because not doing it meshes me unhappy, I do it. doing it all is a compromise I'm not entirely in control of my own mind. part of being a healthy human is to realize we are given very shitty hardware and operate accordingly. we are animated by neurotransmitters, not entirely dependent on them and not entirely independent either

>>40780362
>i mean, why do you let some people run nuclear power plants if you're not a nuclear physicist? doctors if you don't understand medicine?
Trust but verify.
Get second opinions.
Don't cede judgment to an expert class on the promise that they are experts.
The point isn't to remove faith in institutions, it's to be deeply involved in their recommendations, not just to accept them at face value, and to pull support if things don't line up.

You're pitching an educational overhaul that you've admitted you're uninterested in understanding the details of and are willing to cede trust to an expert class. That same class of experts just spent a 10 year detour ditching phonics for "novel programs" which are nonreplicable.

>>40780399
nta but to can kind of tell who's retarded and who's not. my doctor is pretty good but RFK is clearly an anti vaxxing moron. no one is 100% but people can mostly tell. if you can't, you are an animal. like qanon cult members and such. they lack the ability to properly discern by vibe who is a grifter and retard and who is an actual wise professional doing their best

>>40780407
literallyyyy its not fucking hard man.

>>40780383

Schizophrenic is thinking happiness is bad. We're all schizo, we all cause our own problems. Just pointing out human nature. Your unwillingness to accept this as you criticize me and get upset over a veiw you choose to have is proof of that. You should thank me that I gave you the opportunity to write what you wanted to express. You're welcome.

>>40780398

>its a 'good enough' solution that's not really that good.

I completely agree though, I never said logic solutions always exist I said my way of thinking promotes better choices. The reason it's better than our current rehtoric is it keeps track of our happiness. That's useful no matter what we must do in life to maximize happiness. I'm not suggesting you quit your horrible job, just change your definition of good and bad and you will arrive at a very buddhist realization. Life is suffering, so our expectations must change accordingly. Better choices will follow.

>>40780407
>nta but to can kind of tell who's retarded and who's not
You think you have a tell for this, butt it'd a shallow heuristic. There's only one test that actually matters, and it's repeated predictive success. Unfortunately, while quacks are really easy to weed out, institutional leeches are much harder. Nearly the entire body of sociology research is nonreplicable, for instance, yet they still are treated as a science.

>>40778942 (OP)
It is not an insult but you are REALLY not as smart as you think you are, it bleeds through some of your posts.
As frustrating it is to.hear this is unironically one of those things you'll either have to understand growing up or just straight up grow into a stupid adult but right now you sound like you just gained access to consciousness and think every one else hasn't yet.
As if you just started having thoughts about thoughts and couldn't comprehend that others aren't constantly talking about that.

>>40780392
read a book. none of your ideas are bad or wrong because you don't have ideas. you are self-admittedly regurgitating opinions you have overhead. try this instead - figure out some specific part of society you think is broken and do deep reading about how or why its broken and what can be done to fix it. barely matters which - could be prisons, schools, healthcare, entertainment, its a target rich environment.

when you develop real expertise in a specific area and have serious familiarity with it, that will come across to people who aren't retarded and it elevates you beyond your current status as someone who aspires to be a pretentious pseud.

>>40780429
non replicable doesn't mean useless midwit. we can't run experiments in a black hole or observe the surface of a white dwarf to observe the exact process that causes an explosion when the Chandrasekhar limit is reached by that doesn't mean it's useless to build models to help us contextualize and understand our observations. the accumulation of knowledge and building of complex models is the basis for actually unlocking more advanced understanding. most the easy stuff has already been figured out atp.

drawing conclusions based on data is still science even if you can't test it, and lets face it a lot of things are only non testable because it wolf be incredibly evil to test them, like traumatizing psychology experiments and such

>>40780455
>non replicable doesn't mean useless midwit
In the context of sociology, the most applied social science? Yes, it does mean useless. At best it can qualify as a negative result on replication failure.
>lets face it a lot of things are only non testable because it wolf be incredibly evil to test them
Non sequitor because the established scope is existing studies, not "the range of studies we can't run because of ethics".
Don't dish out midwit if this is the sort of thing you're going to unironcially argue.

>>40780468
found the sociology major. you'll be an English or social studies teacher in 7 years after you finish your masters if you don't wash out.

>>40780484
>found the sociology major
>describing sociology known and longstanding replication crisis as a huge negative means you're a sociology major
Anon, I want to banish sociology from the sciences, does that really sound like I'm a soc major?

>>40780429
>yet they still are treated as a science
LOL

>>40780492
I don't write the jokes, I just read the university grant fund sheets

>>40780491
science is only science if, when applying the scientific method, I get results I like it. If I get mixed, confusing results after many experiments and much research it means that researching it is stupid then it stops being science because it doesn't have an obvious answer. i am very smart.

also if I can't do all the steps in order it just stops being science, which is why astronomy is famously not called scientific even though its 99% data collection. i am very smart.

>>40780519
Astronomical observations are replicable.
Sociology observations are overwhelmingly not. Not because they are testing unreproducible subjects. But because they don't have a grasp on their field.
I would agree with you to a point if sociologists actually dedicated time to improvising the replication rates before prognosticsting social policy. But they don't.

>>40780536
*improving, improvising is what the field of sociology is doing currently.
>>40780519
Anyway anon