Thread 24425603

Θέροζε edition

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>24387786

>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE·
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

>Work in progress FAQ
https://rentry dot co/n8nrko

All Classical languages are welcome.

>>24425603 (OP)
Sum primus, cinaede

>>24425603 (OP)
With all the available resources why post AI slop in the OP? Why post it at all

>579-584
>She. I hate a bad man and veil my face as I pass him, keeping my heart light as a little bird's
>He. And I hate both a gadabout woman and a lustful man that chooseth to plough another's land.
>Both. But what's done cannot be undone: 'tis the future that needs watch and ward.
what did Theognis mean by this. Also, I thought Greek women didn't wear veils? Were all Greek gals covered up like muzzies?

>>24425694
veil-cover

>>24425695
>veil-cover
>https://www.tumblr.com/prideofnature/618839882446569474/veils-in-ancient-greece
today i learned that Ancient Greece didn't look like the Minoans, but Saudi Arabia with water

>>24425708
Athenians especially were kinda Taliban tier, IIRC they were not even allowed to leave the home without being accompanied

bump

Gens Abel: somnum cape, panem accipe, bibeque vinum.
Deus enim surridet.

Gens Cain: crucia te, ferrum glutti, teque in lacrimas merge.
Deus enim irascitur.

Gens Abel: munus Seraphim sufferent tuum.
Deus enim tecum.

Gens Cain: pete caelum iterum
terramque te dejiciet Deus.

I haven't felt like blogposting lately, but with the thread dying and all, I guess I'll post something. As you may remember, I said I was working my way through that "reading list" spreadsheet. I haven't been doing much with "readers" lately, but here's one book from the sheet I've read recently.

(Fr.) William Most - Latin by the Natural Method
I was unimpressed with this in the earliest chapters, but it grew on me as I went along. For the most part, it doesn't read as nicely as Familia Romana, and especially in the beginning it suffers from disjointed non sequiturs (for instance, a sentence about Roman history, and then suddenly saying, "But Mary [who had a little lamb] in school did not... George Washington..."), but the readings get better as the book progresses. The readings of the first part cover Roman history through the end of the Republic. Thew readings after that go through Genesis and the first part of Exodus (up through the crossing of the Red Sea). In addition to the main reading for each chapter, there is usually one supplemental reading (sometimes more). These are often not pleasant to read (usually containing disjointed sentences about the topic of the main reading, and comments about Mary (who had a little lamb), the three little pigs, etc.), but these supplemental readings contain more variety in the latter part of the book. For instance, later in the book, we learn a little bit about Egyptian religion and in another place about Gilgamesh. After reading the whole thing, it strikes me as a book that has a lot of good things about it, but could have been much better with a revision. I would recommend it it for "extensive reading," but probably not as a textbook for self-study.

I might try reading through the second and third volumes too at some point in the near future. Looking at the tables of contents, the bulk of the second column appears to be mostly Old Testament (I assume rewritten, like the first volume), the Roman Missal, the finishing with some chapters on St. Cyprian, and then ending with two chapters from Sallust. The third volume is based on St. Augustine's Confessions, then two speeches of Cicero and some of Seneca's letter. I'm assuming that from the Roman Missal onwards the texts are original and not rewritten.

Ask me anything about (Classical) Old Norse

>>24426945
What's your favorite norse word and why is it your favorite?

>>24426945
I was thinking about that meme of that Polish guy who learned Italian from Dante and sounded funnily anachronistic to modern speakers, is it the same with modern Icelandic? it's said to be pretty close to old Norse

>>24426887
Use a trip
If by your own admission you are blogging at least give others the option to filter you.

>>24426887
are you going through different readers for your own sake alone or reviewing them for other reasons as well, maybe for didactic purposes?

>>24427132
Good question. I don't think I have a favourite. I do like creative kenningar, though, so it'd probably be one of those if I did have one, and most likely a phrase. I recently composed a stanza for /clg/ that I never posted, where the theme was medieval battle, and I used 'møyjar malmþings' ("maidens of the ore meeting" (maidens of battle (meeting of ores (steel) = > valkyries), which is pretty kino, but yeah, idk. I've also composed in modern languages using ancient meters, and used creative kenningar according to modern sensibilities. I really don't have a favourite.

>>24427152
Unfortunately people like to point to Icelandic for this for superficial reasons, but they are very different languages. Rather, ON is a period of language evolution, and branching, spanning almost 800 years. But if you were to learn Old Icelandic (one of the many classical ON varieties), then yes, you'd be quite whack in Iceland. Iirc, some Norwegian guy did exactly this and reported his experiences. He only the elderly to really understand even a bit of what he said (I assume he anachronistically adjusted the pronunction to modern Icelandic).

>>24426945
Is there an old norse LLPSI

>>24427703
Not that anon but no
You're stuck with a reader + grammar + glossary or a 'here's a chunk of text and the relevant grammar and vocabulary to help you translate it'
My dream is to write a graded reader like LLPSI for Old Icelandic without any of the careful planning of the progression of grammar, declensions and vocabulary

>>24427703
nope
just pick up a dictionary and read

>>24427710
NTA, but Crawford's textbook should be close, if he ever gets around to finish it.
Kind of ridiculous that we got an LLPSI for Old English before we got one for Norse.

>>24428316
mainly meant for >>24427703

>>24426945
This is a weird one, but maybe you're in academia: Does the book "Runic Poetry (Skaldic Poetry of the Scandinavian Middle Ages, 6)" actually exist? It appears it came out in 2016, but I've never seen it available anywhere, and not even Brepols appears to know about it.

I'm asking because if I ever get around to ON, there seems to be very little kino material written in Futhark. Codex Runicus is almost entirely a legal text, and the Rune databases have a shitload of
> Burt[?] made this
> e<...> in <...>R
The book above, I hope, contains the real gems of the runic corpus.
(I'm pretty sure the edition uses Latin letters only, but I guess there's an unambiguous mapping between the scientific transcription and Futhark, right?)

>>24427703
I'm going to use GPT to translate Familia Romana into Old Norse and Old English

>>24428438
grim

ἔσσεται ἧμαρ ὅτ' ἄν ποτ' ὀλώλῃ /clg/ ἱρόν

>>24429941
σημεῖόν ἐστιν, οὗ μέρος οὐθέν.

>>24428438
With all due respect that’s an awful idea brother

>>24428333
>Does the book "Runic Poetry (Skaldic Poetry of the Scandinavian Middle Ages, 6)" actually exist?
On some level, it must, considering there's metadata in Anna's archive. Anyway, I'm not of much help when it comes to English language resources on the matter, as I've never used any. Runology is a Scandinavia-centric field, and the primary language used in its study is Swedish (Sweden alone has more than half of all known runic inscriptions in the world), Scandinavian languages, as well as German. It's one of those academic fields where you simply need to learn a language just to engage with it.

>there seems to be very little kino material written in Futhark
Depends on your definition, I guess. The Runic corpus is kino for its philological value alone, but the average inscriptions are indeed formulaic (memorials carved into stone). Runology is a philological field first and foremost. The Rök stone is debated to this day, and runologists are still trying to decode it; runologist Henrik Williams put forth the latest interpretation, iirc, and wrote a book on it.
The Karlevi stone is also interesting, as it starts with prose and ends in a stanza composed in dróttkvætt, which makes for the oldest attestation of it, and it's assumed the carver was a western (Norwegian) skald. I've seen this in person more than once, and it's always a nice one to stop by and admire.

>Codex Runicus is almost entirely a legal text
And very late. It is speculated it exists simply because Valdemar II of Denmark had an interest in runes. You normally wouldn't pen this kind of stuff this way.

>> e<...> in <...>R
Damaged or worn, or otherwise illegible, inscriptions. There's a few of those, especially on smaller items like bracteates. Try looking for stones for lengthier, and intact, inscriptions. If using the National Heritage Board's online version of the database, you can user Advanced Search to filter what kind of item you want to search for, material its made of, dating of the item, location, down to to minutiae (this is very helpful for observing dialectal distribution), and of course, what language/dialect (group), or language stage, you're looking for.

But perhaps I should also address the elephant in the room and say that none of this is Classical ON. The classical period started later, and Icelandic authors were hyperproductive during that time, making the total ON corpus overwhelmingly western. The runic corpus is overwhelmingly eastern, and predates the classical period.

>>24431238
> and the primary language used in its study is Swedish (Sweden alone has more than half of all known runic inscriptions in the world), Scandinavian languages, as well as German.
Any standout must-reads in Norwegian (about medieval Scandinavia in general, not necessarily about the language or runes)? German and Danish as well, I guess, but I'm specifically trying to improve my Norwegian.
Norrøn religion by Gro Steinsland is the one I have on my list so far.

>>24431265
Is Norwegian even worth learning

>>24426945
Yeah is there a good dictionary at all?

>>24428634
Treow is on þǣm wuda. Wulf is ēac on þǣm wuda. Hara and dēor sindon swelce on þǣm wuda.

rate GPT

what's the volume of ON literature anyway? I gather it makes learning the language more satisfying than old English, but how does it compare to e.g classical Greek(excluding Koine and later for the sake of argument) in terms of volume and quality(not vis a vis Greek n.b.)

>>24433082
Isn't it mostly what Snorre wrote?
I can't imagine the work of one man could equal that of the Greeks

>>24433120
Urge to translate Greek canon into Norse growing

>>24431265
I'd recommend 'Norrøn syntax' by Nygaard and 'Norrøn grammatikk i hovuddrag' by Haugen to people getting into learning to read ON, and those are specifically in Norwegian. For German, 'Runenkunde' by Düwel, but that's specifically for runology, of course.

Also on this:
>medieval Scandinavia in general
In Scandinavian context, the medieval period starts only AFTER the Viking age (they are starkly separated and the latter not considered to be a subset of the former at all), so that's something to bear in mind when seeking material on the matter in Scandinavian languages.

>>24432558
Fritzner's dictionary is the thinking man's dictionary, but requires knowing Danish to use in full. I believe The University of Copenhagen is actively working on translating it, and that many entries in their online version are now available in English. Otherwise, you have the slightly outdated Cleasby-Vigfússon, which has basically been 'the standard' dictionary in the field every since its conception.

>>24433082
No idea, but it's the best attested ancient Germanic by faaaaar, thanks to the hyperproductive authors of the classical period, so there's certainly plenty to read.

>>24433120
No.

>>24433884
>Otherwise, you have the slightly outdated Cleasby-Vigfússon, which has basically been 'the standard' dictionary in the field every since its conception.
oh wait, I mixed it up with Zoëga
yeah, seek Zoëga first, and then C-V
t. mind is everywhere atm

Also, there are also other non-English dictionaries that come to mind now, but will probably not be of help to you.

>>24433884
>>24433888
Thanks pal, and checked, but my copy of Zoega at least doesn't have an English to Norse, only Norse to English.

>>24432558
old-norse.net/
This is the most useful website to use
It's the Cleasby-Vigfússon but it does a bit of input processing which is very helpful as a beginner who isn't comfortable predicting inflections
As a beginner you ought to start with glossaries instead of dictionaries though
The Cleasby-Vigfússon is colossal and certain words just have too many definitions provided

>>24433909
Yeah, well, that's normal.

Anyway, I think the University of Copenhagen's online version of Fritzner's dictionary is the best choice (since that's the best dictionary; it's so incredibly thorough, and every possible definition has corpus citations (when applicable)), even if not every entry has been translated yet (it was years since I saw untranslated entries anyway).

https://onp.ku.dk/onp/onp.php

>>24433955
>Yeah, well, that's normal.
A shame they think so. It's the only language I've seen that has that unfortunate standard.

>>24433970
I've never seen an English to Classical Chinese dictionary.

>>24433982
So in languages where no one expects composition.

>>24433998
What are you talking about? Lots of people still compose in Classical Chinese.

>>24433970
>A shame they think so.
I meant that that's how dictionaries work. Being able to search definitions instead of the entries they belong to is a modern comfort.

>>24433982
mostly because people who study Classical Chinese do it through another East Asian language (Chinese, Japanese etc) where there are lots of dictionaries

I happen to know that English-CC dictionaries do exist, because we were allowed to use one in our 2nd year exam, but they were incredibly expensive at over £100 each so nobody bought one. I now use a Chinese-CC dictionary which was only £5

>>24433982
>>24434744
>a-student-s-dictionary-of-classical-and-medieval-chinese, Kroll.
This is the one you want to have as classical Chinese enjoyer
I also have others, but they are in Dutch from the same university press.

>>24434005
Like who? Real ass published authors, I mean, not some reddit shitposters.

Roman Salute, fake and gay?

>>24435190
the meme answer to the meme salute is that it was taken from an ancient relief and popularized by a painting IIRC relief but idk, I think they actually held each other's forearm?

>>24425692
wat? looks like a painting to me
in any case, fitting for summer heat coming

How is the Douay-Rheims translation of the Vulgate? Torn between using it as a side-by-side reference or going at it with a dictionary on my own

>>24435047
>>24434005
it's a misunderstanding of Chinese to claim that Classical and Modern Chinese are entirely separate languages and people choose to write in one or the other. In reality it's more like a scale of how vernacular to how classical/written your language is.
every piece of formal writing will contain classical elements that are mostly unused in spoken language, and will also contain vernacular elements that were never seen in Qin-Han writings. This is not meme stuff like Latin loanwords in medicine or science, nor like 50 greek words we use in English. The parts of classical Chinese being used are fundamental grammar, conjunctions, nouns verbs etc.
You will find writing in this mix of classical and vernacular everywhere. As for imitation of the Qin-Han dynasty style, it is less common, but still exists in commentaries on classical texts, poetry, and modern religious and some philosophical works

>>24436161
It is okay, I have read through three of the editions published by HUP and frankly it's like 98 percent the same as other editions of the vulgate. It is strange to me that they decided to reconstruct the latin used by the douay-rheims translators in that edition rather than just using a modern edition of the latin. As for the douay-rheims itself, it is not too different from the KJV, although of course it aligns more with Catholic teaching. The only thing that threw me off with the douay-rheims was a certain prophecy in the Pentateuch name-dropping the Italians. Most editions translate them as cypriots. I would honestly just go with a modern Catholic edition unless you are reading it for the language. The Psalms are quite nice.

>>24434744
>mostly because people who study Classical Chinese do it through another East Asian language (Chinese, Japanese etc) where there are lots of dictionaries
Mandarin-to-CC, Japanese-to-CC etc you mean? Like what?
>I happen to know that English-CC dictionaries do exist, because we were allowed to use one in our 2nd year exam, but they were incredibly expensive at over £100 each so nobody bought one.
Title?
>I now use a Chinese-CC dictionary which was only £5
Title?
>>24435047
There are still groups of people composing CC poetry even in Japan.
>>24436162
>it's a misunderstanding of Chinese to claim that Classical and Modern Chinese are entirely separate languages and people choose to write in one or the other. In reality it's more like a scale of how vernacular to how classical/written your language is.
People may operate on a scale between them, but pure vernacular and pure classical are far apart enough to be considered different languages. If you look at even Swadesh lists side-by-side there are sizeable differences. After all, medieval Greeks wrote on a continuum between their spoken language and classical Attic, doesn't mean what's spoken on the street in Athens today is the same language as what was spoken there 2500 years ago, any more than Italian is the same language as Latin (and those were on a continuum earlier in the Middle Ages).

>>24427400
It's not really for didactic purposes since I'm not a teacher, but I do find the subject interesting. I enjoy reading what authors have to say in the prefaces of their books. I explained in a prior post that I haven't read much of anything in Latin in some years, so I'm trying "extensive reading" (large volume of easy text, ideally around 98% immediately comprehensible) to get back into it, and see how strong I feel after trying it for some time. That's not to say I limit myself strictly to such reading, but I treat it as a daily regimen I have to follow before doing anything else. By analogy to piano, it's like having a daily regimen of scales and exercises. I shoot for a minimum of something like 3,500 words of extensive reading, which might be a half hour or an hour depending on factors like concentration (I do a lot of this reading while exercising) and how far the text actually is from 98% comprehensibility. It's not a lot, but busy adults often don't often have lots of undistracted free time.

>>24436161
The Douay-Rheims is a fine translation. If I may give my opinion about side-by-side translations (this applies to any bilingual text, Vulgate or Loebs), I've found that bouncing back and forth between the Latin and English impedes my ability to concentrate on the Latin. I read Latin better when I don't have the English laying there as a crutch (or at least when I pretend it's not there). It's a more effective use of time to work through a chunk of the Latin (whether it be a chapter, several chapters, or a shorter passage) understanding it as best as you can, then only after you've completed that chunk, going to the English to clarify things that were unclear. Or alternatively, especially if you think a passage will be too hard for you to get much out of the Latin without outside help, you can try pre-reading the English, then coming back later and reading the Latin with the help of already knowing what's happening. (If you already are familiar with the Bible in your native language, that serves the same function as pre-reading.) Try different approaches for yourself and see what works best.

>>24436265
some people also do Vietnamese-CC and Korean-CC or other Chinese languages like Cantonese-CC
the English-cc dictionary is the one that the other guy mentioned >>24434887 we had some copies in the university library which I used
the Chinese-CC dictionary was 古汉语常用字字典第6版
which reminds me that I've lent it to a friend and should get it back at some point

>>24436352
>I explained in a prior post that I haven't read much of anything in Latin in some years, so I'm trying "extensive reading" (large volume of easy text, ideally around 98% immediately comprehensible) to get back into it
good that makes sense, I also read at least 30-60 minutes a day, although I prefer to re-read actual texts I'm familiar with

>>24436367
I thought A Student's Dictionary was just CC-English.

>>24436259
Thanks for the comment.
>>24436352
Appreciate the advice. I did something like what you said with DBG Loeb — read the Latin primarily, only referred to the English to “test” myself or to understand tough sections, obscure grammar, etc. Also covered the English with a piece of paper to keep myself from peeking…

https://grbs.library.duke.edu/index.php/grbs/article/view/11391
neat link with a catalogue of Byzantine cursive ligatures

>>24437251
my bad, it is CC-English, and the Chinese one I mentioned is CC-Chinese not the other way around (although Chinese-CC does exist, but is much less common)

>>24438761
Great find. Palaeography is woefully underrepresented in this general

>join the biggest latin learning discord server
>its just a hub for lgbt community and maybe some latin
why are classisicts like this

>>24439254
The same OP that makes these threads is also a faggot. He makes the same thread in fagbox /la/

>>24439254
>>24439292
most language students are fags. Wanting to communicate is the primary reason, and that is feminine.

>>24439630
>dead languages

>>24439645
>wanting to read stuff written by dead guys thousands of years ago
sounds kinda gay to me ngl

>>24439254
Straight classicists are a dying breed. Probably 'cause the ancient Greeks were gay.

>>24439254
it's all about forging the 21st century burger ego in antiquity. it's the faggot version of WE WUZ

>>24439645
>classics
>spend your youth studying a language to read words of dead men (gay)
>study the clothing and dress of other cultures (gay)
>study the greeks (gay)
>study minority positions in antiquity (gay)
>study cultural practises (gay and feminine)
>study religion (gay and femine)
>study masculine men fighting each other (gay)
>study numismatics (autistic)
>study history (autistic)
>study the environment (gay)
>study ancient rocks (autistic)
>do archaeology (feminine)
Classics is inherently a field of study for the feminine and abnormal of persuasion

>>24425603 (OP)
Greek, Latin, English, of the three, which has the best poetry

>>24440360
>bans all gay parts
>leaves the autistic parts
late antiquity bros rise up

>>24440535
German > English >>>> Greeks > Latin

>>24440676
Why German > English? Isn't English better because it's Romance and Germanic?

>>24439292
kek way to miss the mark, resident goblin

Is there any other Homeric textbook than Pharr's? I feel like they couldn't have designed that textbook any worse

>>24440991
Non cura and btw you're a fasciculum

>>24439254
>do unusual thing
>surprised you're surrounded by unusual people
If you wanted capital-s Straight Men I'd look into finance.

>>24441048
read the mega bruh fr u blindy

>>24441209
>find an interest
>make it about your sexual orientation
why do middle class burgers do this?

>>24440685
It's a Germanic language with a bunch of Romance loanwords.

how old is the Homeric Greek approach anyway? before the internet I didn't even know about it, nor if it's something that is done outside of anglophone countries

>>24441283
Whites are forbidden from being normal in the 21st century by Talmudic law. I apologize on our behalf.

>>24440676
>Never uses loanwords
>Japanese

>>24440676
>3/3 chud
>mfw

>>24441048
I also posted about trying Pharr's book recently, and I came to a similar opinion. There would have been a time in my life where I would have enjoyed such a book, ideally used in a classroom. In my current state of life, I don't have time to waste on those translation exercises (which I think are of dubious value) and hunting for what information in the back of the book (the grammar reading for the lessons) is actually important versus what can be discerned by analogy to Latin. I found that I was spending most of my time just reviewing declension tables, and so, if that's the case, what do I need a textbook for? I might as well just be following the Ranieri-Dowling™ method. I've taken an indefinite break from learning Greek for the time being to focus more on Latin, but I don't think I'll be returning to the book. I think I'll either just try crashing through the Illiad on my own, or maybe try Athenaze (Italian Edition™).

>>24441804
Pharr's book is over 100 years old now since the first edition.

>>24443724
>taken an indefinite break from learning Greek for the time being to focus more on Latin

That's how you do it

>>24441275
Salve, mi fili. You wouldn't happen to know where to obtain a copy of the second edition of Book 2 of this course (with the green cover)? I read in the Amazon reviews that the book was butchered in the third edition.

>>24440360
>study masculine men fighting each other (gay)

breh

>>24443886
>that thing most men like, that's actually gay

>>24443879
nta, this one? https://annas-archive.se/md5/e89e368cf6f6d61f18d652252b0883d3

woops
https://annas-archive.se/md5/0a5d68db4f7f9dcae362b93e525191eb

>>24444432
>>24444437
Ah, thanks. I searched on AA earlier, but turned up empty handed. Either the search must be broken or I'm just retarded (or both).

puellae pulsantibus in monte pedibus saltant
corvi sub arboribus pipiant
puellae pulsantibus in monte pedibus saltant

>>24443724
>>24441048
idiots
Pharr is a genius and the fact that you cannot absolutely remember grammar and vocabulary sickens me. In fact it is the first AG books that worked for me. Also Homer is based and the other Homeric textbooks don't compare at all.

I want to learn Classical Japanese but I'm still struggling with modern Japanese...

>>24444714
>>24444437
>>24444432
>30mb or 200mb file on AA
this will never download

de quo scribam hodie?

>>24446829
The history of the gays and their horrible attitudes in the style of Herodotus.

>>24446979
nah im not interested in anglosphere talking points. next.

>>24447415
The history of the muslims and their racist attitudes in the style of Herodotus.

>>24446829
quinque rationes cur Graeca potius discenda sit quam Latina

>>24447424
nah im not interested in JIDF talking points
>>24447432
ede merdam graecule

>>24447449
οὔποτε
age porro, cedo igitur quinque libros Latine valde oppido legendos

>>24447459
prosequor thema ranula nec libros. da mihi thema!

>>24447464
>thema
vah! quid vocabulum istuc? captusne a Graecis tandem?
visne 'argumentum' ut ruri dicamus apud agrestia robora Teucrum?
age age, dic quidnam censeas de rebus publicis aetate moderna administrandis, satine tibi placet?

>>24447470
ego sum graecorum victor. si volo verbis graecorum utere, mihi licet. politicis de rebus autem non placent. DA MIHI THEMA ALTA RANULA.

>>24447483
neque libri neque res poli- publicae volup tibi, quid ergo rogem? clades forte quam maximas Graecorum a consulibus nostris acceptas? ubi maxime in eos saevitum fortasse?

>>24447504
etiam ego dixi RES POLITICAS nec PUBLICAS ranula. mane. mox canebam de animalibus.

>>24447515
animalia*
ignosce hunc anglicismum ranula

agnus e matre effugit albescente sole ut agros aspiceret alienos,
pratum somnians floridum.

mater autem toto animo filium cogitans
absconditum quaerebat fructum.

ubi esset ille nescivit.
ubi graderetur ille nescivit.
quos flores olfaceret ille nescivit.

quodam die regressus est proh dolor
signis infernalis putribusque tectus.

at eum lambebat mater
ut priscus fieret.

tam begina est mater
ut sordidos faciat mundos.

NIGER SALVE HITLER, NIGER SALVE HITLER
NON ACCIPIUNT RES DICAM IN TWITTER
NIGER SALVE HITLER
NON ACCIPIUNT RES DICAM IN TWITTER

TOTI MEI NIGRI NAZISTI, NIGER SALVE HITLER
NIGER SALVE HITLER, NIGER SALVE HITLER
TOTI MEI NIGRI NAZISTI, NIGER SALVE HITLER

>>24447581
>signis infernalis
heu! quo gentium se contulit talibus ut opertus esset?

>>24447632
meos filios ceperunt
meos fundos rapuerunt

>>24447652
apud urbanos panem sumpsit

Why are you learning an incel language like Latin when you could be learning a chad language like Occitan?

bumperino

I should have taken Ancient Greek in high school instead of going for the Maths and Physics-focused curriculum and ignoring the Latin lessons like a chud. Now I am lagging 10 whole years behind because of that.

>>24449060
It's easier to catch up on Latin than on Math.

>>24449060
What high schools teach Ancient Greek? Around here, it seems that almost all the public schools have eliminated Latin. I don't think a single public school in l this county teaches Latin, and even the big Catholic high school in the area apparently lacks any Latin program.

Is there any medieval or early modern Latin poetry, rhyme-based rather than meter-based, that has actual literally value beyond the typical Chrisitan hymn "Jesus is so great, oh how great is Jesus, Jesus is so amazing, also his mom's a virgin"?

>>24449135
>rhyme-based rather than meter-based
why

>>24449144
>medieval or early modern

>>24449135
Carmina Burana

>>24445647
I may be an idiot, but I never said that I couldn't remember grammar or vocabulary. I was complaining about how the book was laid out. For example, it will introduce words like "he was" and "they were." I've already taken Latin. Just say it's like "eram" or "fui" or whatever tense (or if it's not directly analogous, explain how it's different by analogy to Latin) and show me the conjugation table! Then there's a rambling exposition of grammar in the back of the book, and each lesson will tell you to read certain parts of the grammar (fine, it keeps the lesson uncluttered), but the grammar is just not well written for the purposes of teaching anything. Very few things have good examples. Compare with Allen and Greenough and the wealth of examples in every section. And the lessons don't draw attention to important points. Like for example in lesson IV, it introduces the declension of θεά and θάλασσα, but, since that's the focus of the lesson, maybe it would be nice to talk about those different noun forms and go over the logic of the regressive (or was it recessive?) accent. Instead you're just left to hunt through the section on pronunciation (of course, you have all the rules of accent memorized from the prior lessons despite lacking the knowledge of concrete examples, right?) to ignore the unimportant parts and pick out the important parts. I'm not saying it can't be used to learn, and a teacher could supply for some of the book's deficiencies, but it's just not well designed forself-study (even if there's nothing better).

I looked through Reading Homeric Greek (book 1), and it doesn't look like it's any better than Pharrs from my perspective (for my own purposes at least). And they don't even mark the long vowels! At least that's one thing that Pharr's can boast of, that the long vowels are actually marked. I watched the "Ranieri-Roberts Method" video yesterday, and evidently that's a problem with Greek textbooks in general (at least the ones he reviewed in the video), with the exception of Athenaze.

After looking at the Reading Homeric Greek course, I think I will try using Pharr's book again, but I'm going to be approaching the book in a different manner this time, rather than strictly following a lesson-by-lesson schedule. I'm also going to try out some other books for reading material outside of Homer, such as those recommended by Dominus Ranieri. Speaking of which, can anyone redpill me on interlinear (or side-by-side bilingual) copies of the New Testament?

>>24449135
Can you name some examples of medieval Latin poetry you've read that do sound anything like your crude English caricature?

>>24449113
I live in Italy. Here most high schools follow determined curricula, of which the two most common are the classical one, which includes Latin and Ancient Greek, and the scientific one, focused on STEM but that also includes Latin still. Funnily enough, this is the reason why way more people in this country know Ancient Greek compared to modern Greek.

>>24449060
i went to a Gymnasium and had Latin, Greek, Dutch, English, French, German. My other option was a school with Latin + Greek swapped for Russian + Chinese
sometimes I wonder if I should've learned those two instead

>>24449060
don't worry, I did not even go to scientifico but a professional school and started learning ancient Greek at around 28, within few years of consistency you can get great results

Anybody have that Old English chart saved (and be willing to post it again?

>>24449712
this one?

>>24449719
Just the one, thanks

>>24449207
You seem mentally ill-equipped for self-teaching.
>For example, it will introduce words like "he was" and "they were." I've already taken Latin.
Why would the book assume that? Is it called Homeric Greek for year 1 Latin students?
>Instead you're just left to hunt through the section on pronunciation
You’re self-teaching and too lazy to flip back to a reference section?
>of course, you have all the rules of accent memorized from the prior lessons despite lacking the knowledge of concrete examples, right?
Thats not an unreasonable expectation.
>And the lessons don't draw attention to important points
They draw attention to what’s important for reading passages of Homer — the teaching philosophy laid out clearly in the preface, which I hope you read.

>>24449790
Sorry for insulting the honor of your girlfriend, but you're not going to convince me that Clyde Pharr's book is perfect, especially by saying I'm just too lazy to use it properly. Yes, I am too lazy to use it "properly." I'm a busy adult. It could be written more effectively. I already gave some examples.

>Why would the book assume that? Is it called Homeric Greek for year 1 Latin students?

It's probable that the vast majority of "beginners" looking at Homeric Greek have indeed taken at least one or two years/semesters of Latin.

In fact, a Homeric Greek textbook written in Latin would be a good idea.

>study Classical Chinese
>hate how vague it can be and how obsessed the authors are with autistic conciseness
>stop studying Classical Chinese
>suddenly want to study it again because of how concise and vague it can be

>>24449207
Get a trip. No one cares about your inane blogposts reading readers

>>24450489
If you didn't like my post, don't read it! Sorry!

>>24439254
I’m a part of that server and you’re 100% full of shit. There is like one channel referencing pride month and the rest has nothing to do with lgbt. You are OBSESSED my guy.

>>24450515
Your writing is distinctive and everyone knows who it is. You even write expecting others to recognize you. The only reason you dont trip or namefag is to prevent being filtered. All the worst parts of a tripfag without the sole benefit.

>>24450180
>I’m too lazy
>I’m too busy
>if only I had a Greek book written in Latin then I could learn
All I see are excuses and coping. You aren’t cut out for self-teaching

>>24450194
子之學未已

> ubi animalia amicabilia veneunt
"Where friendly animals come" What is this supposed to mean? Shouldn't it be veniunt?
>quo viso
I don't get it. "Having looked to that direction"?

>>24451322
veneo = to be sold, understandable doubt as it resembles venio, but it's irregular; it's also one of the few verbs that has an active conjugation with passive meaning, another one I recall is vapulo
>quo viso
ablative absolute = having seen him

Anyomne checked this out yet? Seems great
https://oxytone.xyz/

>>24451339
>ablative absolute
Wtf is this

>>24451599
pretty common Latin construction to rapidly indicate a circumstance

>>24451570
wow indeed, thanks for the link

>>24451615
That's just a normal ablative.

>>24451656
'absolute' refers to the construction, ablative is just a grammatical case, used in many different ways, from its original sense to instrumental to prepositional or this one

>>24450194
It's Omit Needless Words: The Language.

>>24450791
Granted. If you esteem Pharr so highly, why don't you make a positive case for it's "genius?" It's just another run-of-the-mill textbook with word lists and translation exercises.

>>24451599
kek inputfags ladies and gentlemen

>>24453175
Every ancient Roman peasant and child used the ablative absolutive fluently without ever having heard the words "ablative absolutive". Academic understanding of grammar can be helpful, but it's not the same thing as speaking a language, and vice versa.

>>24451570
The site is great but why does the header image have Latin all over it? Why not Greek? Seems like an embarrassing oversight

>>24453179
And yet you don't
Who is speaking again? >>24451322 is text

>>24453187
You know what I mean. Knowing a language, having competence in a language, rather than knowing about a language. (I'm also not the person you were replying to; I know what an ablative absolutive is.)

>>24453175
Oh sorry next time I won't question your massive intellect. I'm just not sure why that needs further defining since that's what everyone thinks of when they think of ablatives

>>24453180
Because it harkens back to the days when Romans,like us puny Anglophones, struggled to learn Greek.

>>24453189
well >>24451322 neither knows what an ablative absolute is nor understood it. Fair to say he lacks competence in the language and about the language
>>24453194
Again >>24451322 did not

>>24453202
He asked a simple question and you're going to spend the whole thread trying to jerk off on him. Gross.

>>24453260
All you have to do is not reply

>>24453313
Can everyone ITT just get a tripcode already??

>>24453349
/clg/ is incapable of not feeding trolls.

>>24453354
At least personally, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt unless they're very obviously trolls, because they might be in good faith and just kind of stupid. Better to accidentally feed the occasional troll than accidentally leave some people's good-faith questions unanswered.

>>24453313
You can stop trying to jerk off onto people and pretend like you taught them something. You came here to show off that you know a technicality from one of your grammar books. Good for you champ.

>>24453369
Why are you replying?

How do you translate the-small-children-into-the-water-throwers in the language you're learning?

>>24449207
The most recent edition of Pharr has grammar included in the lessons the way you like it. But it doesn't have all the flavour commentary related to Iliad text itself that Pharr has graciously written.

It is only available as a paperback.

>>24453711
投子於水者

>>24453712
The real problem, I wager, is that he doesn't have a physical book. He's using some tablet or something else which is cumbersome if one has to flip back and forth. Poorfag

>>24453712
i have that new book
an idiot could learn from it. all grammar is carefully explained

>>24453711
在水里扔小孩子的人

>>24453711
οἱ νηπιορριπτοδύται

>>24453857
I don't think Mandarin is very relevant to /clg/?

>>24453866
oh ye, you’e right. 在水裡丟小孩子的人。

>>24453888
That... still reads like Mandarin to me?

>>24453892
why’s that ?

>>24453899
Because it uses words like 裡 (in the sense of "in/inside") and 小孩子 and 的.

>>24453905
oh yeah, you’re right !

>>24454248
tbf in the case of latin, lingua latina per se illustrata also teaches grammar

>>24454248
>>24454250
And then there's Classical Chinese, whose grammar is essentially vibes-based.

>>24454250
>teaches grammar
No an input method

>>24453712
Thanks for pointing out the removal of commentary in later editions. I actually am using the third edition ("revised" by John Wright, 1985), but even this edition already has abbreviated the notes in the way you described. In pic related, the top is from the first edition and the bottom is from the fourth edition. Notice how much of note 4 has been removed. I confirmed that the same difference exists in my copy of the third edition. I guess I'll need to read the notes in both editions to make sure I'm getting the full experience.

>>24453712
My complaint isn't so much that the grammar is in a separate section from the lessons, but that it isn't well designed for its purpose. For example, consider lesson 5, which introduces the present active indicative of the verb λύω. Pic related is the assigned reading for the chapter. Is all this information really necessary at this point? The student is advised to "read carefully," so it seems the author at least thinks so. So instead of dedicating his time to the important information pertaining to the lesson, the diligent student is led to study rules about grammatical terms when he has no idea what the grammatical terms mean. (Which is also why I find the earlier poster's claim that Pharr had no expectation that "beginners" had previously studied Latin is probably mistaken, and the editor, John Wright, agrees in his preface.)

Granted all the information is necessary, is it well explained?

>792. The characteristics of the finite forms are the personal endings, augment, reduplication, voice, mode, and tense signs, etc.

"Etc.?" And not all of these terms even touched on in the rest of the reading. So is the student supposed to learn all of these kinds of characteristics, or is the point to introduce the term "characteristic" and give the student an example of the kinds of things that "characteristic" refers to? You might say to just use common sense, but it's unnecessary to waste the student's time and mental resources in this way, especially if your argument is that the genius Clyde Pharr wrote a perfect textbook that is immune to criticism.

The author seems to have first vomited out all the rules of Homeric Greek that he thought students should learn into a separate grammar, and then carved out pieces of the grammar to fit his teaching syllabus as best as that separate grammar allowed. As a standalone grammar, I don't consider it very good. (I contrasted it with Allen & Greenough, which I do consider a good Latin grammar for students.) So just because it's inserted into an introductory textbook doesn't make it better than it is. A better textbook would have the lesson's grammatical reading hand tailored to that lesson.

I wasn't the one who used the words "they couldn't have designed that textbook any worse," and I think the poster who did say that was speaking hyperbolically. I just think that the book has certain deficiencies, which would be filled in by the teacher in the context of a class, but must necessarily be filled in by the student (who doesn't know anything yet) when used for self-study. Pharr didn't write the book for self-study, so saying that, but both I and that other poster are using it for self-study, so we are evaluating it with that purpose in mind. If the goal had been to make an accessible text for the average person off the street to learn Homeric Greek by self-study, the book would be a failure. And before you say that "lazy idiots" or normies don't deserve to learn Homeric Greek and that the ideal book should be written as a filter against the unwashed masses, that's exactly the opposite of Pharr's stated aim, which was to make Greek more accessible to students.

>>24453722
I actually am using a physical copy of the third edition, but even this edition already has apparently removed the notes in the way that >>24453712 described.

Your point about flipping through the book is would be valid on a tablet, but is actually less of a problem on a computer than a physical book because you can open separate copies of a PDF in multiple windows, especially if you are using multiple monitors.

>>24453784
I'm glad the book works for you (in your own words).

>>24454307
input / output isn't really a method, it's like doing biceps or triceps. You don't just train one thing.

>>24451570
added to FAQ

>>24454598
>>24454601
>>24454606
>3 in a row
get a trip
why prevent filtering when you blogpost like this

>>24455477
It's not clear to me what you think "blogpost" means, but arguing about a textbook isn't blogposting in any ordinary use of the term. Since you're interested, I can start a regular blog series ITT about my daily experiences with Pharr's textbook. I hope you'll enjoy.

>sightread 6 pages in a row
better than sex (I'm a virgin)

Reading that classical philologists learned Hebrew made me start Biblical Hebrew rn. Doing the routledge course which makes you translate some biblical passages to learn. Very kino but, fatiguing on the mind to memorize so much

>>24455758
Latin or Greek? What text?

>>24453857
>>24453888
not even correct 普通话, it should be 往水里扔小孩子的人

>>24456011
Any particular figures that inspired you? Good luck, or "shalom," as they say, haha.

>>24450194
>>24454254
>>24438780
can I learn classical chinese on my own, with textbooks and all? i will join a mandarin class this fall at my university but there are no courses for classical chinese

>>24456755
Yes. I think someone here has even put together a graphic for it.

>>24456769
this one? found on the FAQ page
>I love charts

>>24456769
>>24456783
forgot pic

>>24456547
Nietzsche studying Hebrew at Pforta and failing miserably

>>24456201
Latin, LLSPI Chapter 1 and 2
(nta but it's sometimes pleasant to just open up the Bible and see how damn easy it is compared to literally any other classical text you can read)

>>24456201
Latin, De Bello Gallico. Took me awhile to get used to his style but it all just suddenly clicked for me

>>24454254
>grammar is essentially vibes-based.
thats Feng Shui to you, mario
gay luigi?

>Find Latin author I don't like
>id/id is from north Africa

>>24456857
Based Nietzsche. Everything about Hebrew sucks. For one, it's not really corrected to be the Aramaic that it actually was in the classical period, for two all of the improvements that language were developed by Syriacs, and on top of all of that it's the least kino of the Semitic languages getting easily btfo by the Syriac alphabet and Arabic phonetics. It doesn't even sound natural when compared to things like neo-Assyrian.

>>24457346
he failed because of low iq, not because he hated the language.
He called for Germany to be partitioned and invaded. He called for 'antisemites (read Germans)' to be shot
he was a shabbos goy

>>24457434
Where are you referencing? Because he says pretty terrible things about rabs. The only time he rubs them off is to instigate Germans to be more tribalistic. He calls himself at one point Polish, but it's clearly to antagonize his audience of Germans.

>>24457434
>madness letters

>>24457441
whence came the ideas? His Will was unobstructed while writing them
>>24457437
>http://www.thenietzschechannel.com/correspondence/eng/nlett-1889.htm
he calls himself Polish in private correspondence. He loved Jews and Slavs and hated Germans

>>24457492
>he calls himself Polish in private correspondence

>"I am more a Pole than I am God"

>>24457507
ahem
>I am a Polish nobleman pure sang, in whom there is not the slightest admixture of bad blood, least of all German.
>My ancestors were Polish nobility: I inherited from them my instincts, including perhaps also the liberum veto.

>>24457925
Look there's no point going on once we've established that he's trying to sound insane and claiming to be the One Trve God.

>>24456755
yes you can
won't be super easy but it's possible

>>24457950
those quotes are from when he was sense

speaking of semitic languages like hebrew, considering the peculiar nature of the script, how do they even know, if they know at all, about the ancient pronunciation of vowels? I'm assuming they mostly work with evidence from other languages and internal evidence from modern descendants working backwards?

>>24459881
The Tiberian vowel pointing is pretty old.

>>24459881
They do not know. The diacritics to show posible pronunciation of vowels were invented by the Masoretes way after the times the bible was written. Basically Hebrew was already a dead language when this system (called niqqud) came to be (five centuries after Jesus).

Bump

>>24459894
That comes from the medieval period. Semitic languages didn't have any diacritics until the Syriacs developed them.

>>24461106
I assume it can be corroborated by borrowings from other languages though? e.g if one takes the Septuagint and the many hebrew names and words in it, can't they be verified to be a good system?

>>24461232
I don't take your meaning. Are you saying that Greek should be used to decipher Semitic standards?

>>24461238
what I mean is, if they (much) later developed a system of diacritics to indicate vowel sounds, can't one check how good or representative this system at the time of its creation was by looking at earlier versions of the same text written in scripts that had already developed written vowels?
if e.g medieval diacritic A is said to represent the /a/ sound, look in e.g the Septuagint for corresponding translitterated hebrew words like proper names and see if they match or not

>>24461243
You're an idiot for two reasons: (1) your response was just supposed to be a yes, you didn't need to type a shit post. (2) Just do it and don't waste my time asking about it. im not going to do your homework and you're not going to like the opinion I've already developed on it.

Hi Frenchanon ahaha xx

>>24459894
>>24460060
>>24459881
Around 500AD did Jews start using diacritics to make their texts readable. It eventually became the Tiberian form as we know it over time

>>24461819
Syriacs developed it in 300 AD. jews weren't writing texts at the time

So I'm trying to reteach myself CC in Cantonese readings by listening on repeat to recordings of the texts I've already memorized in Mandarin pronunciation, because it seems like the pronunciation that represents the best compromise between preserved distinctions and availability of audio material. (Hokkien and Sino-Vietnamese preserve more distinctions, but there's a lot less audio materials in them.) Maybe a little tangential to this thread, but any recommendations on resources to learn to effectively hear and reproduce specifically Cantonese tones? Should I repost this question to /lang/ on /int/?

>>24461096
>>24461097
>that synchronicity

>>24462533
Posting at the same time as someone else is as Reddit as it gets.

Some thoughts on Bradley's Arnold Latin Prose Composition. It's a near perfect textbook. The introduction is a concise and convenient grammar reference. Every rule mastered is immediately useful for reading comprehension. Every lesson alone is worth the price of the book, especially those on relative pronouns and the dative case. The exercise questions are hard, but never impossible. If you get one wrong you can be sure you didn't master a previous lesson, or failed to use the book properly, which is itself a course in patience and attention to detail. The introduction, rules, footnotes, glossary, and index together create a satisfying map that always guides you to what you need for the exercises provided you're careful. Granted, all these compliments should be the bar for passable, but because every modern textbook I pick up is a cluttered, unwieldy piece of shit, Bradley's Arnold stands out. As for it being just "near" perfect, I blame neither Arnold nor Bradley but rather the publisher, who chose a razor-sharp cardboard for the cover material, and the editor of the modern edition, who made quite a few typos and formatting errors and inconsistently Americanized the British English of the original. I would have been fine with it being fully American or fully British English, but as is it's a half-assed hybrid. These minor complaints aside, I can't recommend it enough: try it if you were considering it.

Can I ask linguistics questions in these general? You guys seem to know your stuff well

>>24463034
I mean shoot, there are some anons occasionally who have uni degrees too

>>24463029
Please... you have to get a trip code. I'm begging you... I *dies*

>>24463598
The thread is on life support, needing page 10 bumps to survive, people are arguing about Nietzsche and polish heritage, and your best contribution is multiple replies of
>reeeeee get a trip!
conscisce, quaeso, tibi mortem.

Classical books taking on the subject of Fate and Providence?

>>24463721
killing the general is his whole purpose and has been for years, nearly every negative, insulting, annoying reply to kill the mood of the general you see(with a predictable template) has been the work of 1 poster for years

>>24463721
That was a joke post. I hope the tone of the post made that clear. I'm not the same poster that was posting about trips earlier. I only wanted to spread mirth and good cheer. The last thing I'd want to do is besmirch the reputation of any other poster.

>>24463728
in recall in De Natura Deorum by Cicero there's a good amount of dialogue about it, it's a book I have to re-read sometime

>join Latin or Old English discord group
>people rarely if ever discuss the texts themselves, just the idea of learning it or using it as a place to socialise
>join other more obscure historical language groups
>people rarely if ever discuss the actual texts, just linguistic autism

>>24463728
Seneca's De Providentia

Have you guys ever visited websites in Latin?
(such as this, for instance:)

https://www.vatican.va/latin/latin_index.html

>>24465402
not many which keep you hooked unless specifically interested in the material, Latin wikipedia is maybe the closest since there's so much variety, albeit the quality of the Latin isn't always great
check https://porticuspublica.org/ though, it's a 4chan-styled placed to speak only in Latin

>>24464896
the big Latin&Greek discord one just rubbed me wrong from the beginning, other than the first obligatory post it doesn't encourage posting at least for me

>>24464896
>>people rarely if ever discuss the texts themselves, just the idea of learning it or using it as a place to socialise
sounds like this thread

>>24464896
Even if people are not using the servers to discuss what you think is relevant, doesn't mean they're not serving a purpose. For learners in particular, just the sense of being connected to a community can be motivating. Studying a language alone in your room can be a lonely endeavor.

>>24467609
what an awful attitude, you should be ashamed

>>24464896
>>people rarely if ever discuss the actual texts, just linguistic autism
well, what do you expect? that's the value of the texts

>>24467881
I disagree. Texts with solely linguistic value would not have been preserved for ~2000 years and utilized as the foundation of the Renaissance. You may not like the texts, you may disagree with their contents, but they certainly have value.

>>24468067
>You may not like the texts, you may disagree with their contents, but they certainly have value.
yeah, philologically

>>24468116
Philological and other value. Does Ovid hold no value for you? Horace? Catullus? They certainly did to every other poet from the Middle Ages up until quite recently. How about Cicero, the gold standard of rhetoric and oratory? Tacitus? Boethius?
Philology is extremely important and it is a shame that in recent years it has been cast aside. Ancient texts have had and continue to have value in whole realms beyond philology and serve as the foundation for nearly every literary aspect of English.

>>24467881
Most people care primarily about their literary/historical value

>>24467666
If you really feel that way, shouldn't you be studying languages alone in your room instead of arguing with strangers over the internet?

>internet goes out for most of the day
>time spent reading increases exponentially
happened again award
every single time award

Is Chinese a classical language?

>>24469302
Classical Chinese, yes. Mandarin, no. Just like Latin is and French isn't.

>>24468116
must be quite the painful experience for someone who goes into philology as field of study having to read texts whose content he has 0 interest in

>>24469915
I know someone like this who states that he has no interest in the actual content of the languages he studies
It's not just for work, he does it as a part of his hobby as well

Since this general is just people doing advanced undergrad to grad-level work on their own for who knows what reason, do any of you actually have experience in academia? I'm trynna leave my mooching girlfriend and get my life back but idk if 27 is too late

>>24469980
Oh yeah I know Greek and Latin and Spanish and Italian and some Germanbtw

How much more synthetic is Greek than Latin, really? I've seen it people blow it up to massive proportions before, but I always assumed it was just wind. From what I've heard, Latin has greater nominal while Greek has greater verbal morphology

>>24468252
False premise. I study languages due to my own motivation, not that gained from external sources, and am not lonely when I do so whatsoever. 4chan is for shitposting and occasionally gleaning information.

>>24469980
27 is not too late
Classics Academia is an awful idea

the only valid pronunciation of ancient hebrew is one based on the hexapla's transcriptions

>>24470671
you can get into Oxford's classics graduate degrees with 80-90% chance.

>>24470970
Indeed. Oxford is one of the most prestigious universities in the world and its Classics department in particular is probably the most prestigious in the world. Why do you suppose it is so easy to get into?
Classics as a career is dead. You will be fighting with hundreds if not thousands of others for fewer and fewer positions, many of which will offer a mere pittance and no tenure track. You will be competing with PhDs with several years of teaching experience and multiple publications. You will be justifying yourself and your discipline at every turn and spending more time fighting for scraps of cash than teaching.
If you are truly passionate about Classics and either are independently wealthy or do not care at all about career and income stability then go for it. Even in that case I doubt you will find academia satisfying but follow your dreams.
If are passionate about Classics and want stability plan to teach at a private high school or possibly junior college, jobs which are in abundance.
I do not want to dissuade anyone from studying Classics. Doing so has opened my mind and enriched my life. Before setting off into Classics as an academic career though you should be very aware of what you are getting into. It is not tweed jackets and long discussions with eager young minds about Sophocles and Roman oratory.
Talk to professors about what it entails. Talk to current grad and postgrad students. Talk to as many people already involved as you can. Think long and hard before making a commitment.
My personal opinion is to do something else as a grad student, something that will give you the income and spare time to focus on Classics.

>>24471120
My ego is still bruised from getting rejected from all colleges I applied to out of high school despite ~135 IQ, near-perfect SAT/ACT, and >100 test score average (I was emotionally disabled with frequent suspensions and across the board terrible grades.) People still assume I'm stupid because of my bizarre presence. I just want an Ivy degree or something under my belt as revenge. I know how base this is.

>>24470654
overall Greeks feels definitely more "modern", to a westerner that is, except as you hint for the verb system

Introductory Latin or Ancient Greek for my arts degree, /clg/?

>>24471120
if you apply to Oxford/Cambridge as an international masters student in something that needs zero resources like Classics they'll practically be falling over themselves to enrol you for that sweet sweet 40k per year in tuition fee
as for PhD good luck lmao

>>24472698
Pharr's Homeric Greek for Beginners
it doesn't get arts relevant than that
leave Attic for later, transition from Homeric to Attic will be easier than vice versa.

interesting, this caught me a bit off guard, Herodotus using two iterative imperfect forms instead of the standard forms, no augment either, I was sure these were exclusive to Homer

>>24471796
>be Dutch
>do Gymnasium
>get world class Classics degree 100% guaranteed
>:)

>>24469980
Yeah, I've got experience with academia. You can dump your girlfriend. You can also study classics, but I don't see how the two are connected. Is she simply consuming a lot of your time? If you don't like her, just kick her out; there's no need to connect it to classics.

>>24463029
Say it in Latin.

Is there a textbook like JACT for Latin?

>>24474535
Reading Latin by Keith Sidwell & Peter Jones is modeled after JACT.

>>24474547
Thank you

>>24472698
Greek's more satisfying imho, really is, but more front heavy in difficulty, Latin would be maybe a smoother choice, but a lot of it is up to taste

bump

>>24476068
Get a trip.

What's the best book for leaening Old French.

I've been interested in grammar, logic and rhetoric for a long time, ie the trivium. Will learning Latin or Greek benefit me? Don't know which of the two I should learn or if I should learn both.

>>24476192
French is not a classical language.

>>24476358
Not even specifically Old French?

>>24476380
Old French is welcome ITT, can't help you personally but some OF anons sometimes showed up, maybe in the archived generals there's something as well

>>24476380
No. Latin and Greek are the only Western classical languages. Then there's Sanskrit and a few others.

>>24476413
What about Gothic or OCS?

>>24476418
Really only Latin and Greek.

>>24476418
ignore the goblin, he is completely buck broken by this thread and has been 24/7/365 obsessed with ruining it for years

>>24476418
What do you think classical means? Just old?

>>24476192
E. Einhorn's Concise Handbook. Knowledge of French is theoretically not needed, but helps with vocabulary (otherwise you're pretty much starting from 0)

And here are some dictionaries
https://micmap.org/dicfro/search/dictionnaire-godefroy
https://anglo-norman.net/

>>24476924
uh based

>>24476555
I used to define it as the classical period, but I've moved my position and now it just means old. Gothic definitely fits into the classical period though.

>>24476924
This is why I started.

>>24476351
If your goal is just learning the subjects themselves then start with translations. If you fall in love with them then maybe consider learning Greek. You risk wasting your time otherwise.

>>24473856
Would be an exercise in wasting time. I'd much rather translate the umpteenth variant of
>Had the statesman, before I was killed by a deadly poison by the man you had met during a deliberation of the senate following the revolt of the nation, been in office during the same year as my father and my father's brother, and had they encountered such political unrest as I did, he might have shown as much good sense.

>>24476651
adding these to the FAQ, if you have other suggestions or comments, feel free

>>24476351
If you have read plenty about the trivium in English or whatever and want a new challenge picking up a dead language wouldn't hurt but may not exactly help either. As the other anon said translations will get you the gist of things.
If you are interested in classical languages Latin has a ton of works specifically on rhetoric, Greek is the way to go for the other two though Medievals wrote a lot about them in Latin.

>>24477583
do so then

>>24476986
Nah just like classical literature and classical music it means of greater value and greater importance, more refined, more civilized.

>>24477023
>>24477893
Have you studied the trivium yourselves? Otherwise your opinions are worthless.

>>24477023
>start with
I said I've been interested in it for a long time, by that I meant I've been studying it for a long time, although slowly for most of that time. I regret even asking about it here.

>>24478047
Yes, I have. That has no impact on the question though.
>>24478053
kek, seems you have your answer

>>24478040
I don't use either of those terms because they're misnomers. Listen to the original Dies Irae, Dies Illa and then listen to Mozart's version and tell me he didn't butcher it. Many such cases.

>>24478053
Anyway I will learn some Latin and Greek, because when they studied the trivium up until it was suppressed and concealed, hidden away, reserved for initiates of secret societies etc, it was Latin and Greek grammar they studied when they studied grammar, not English or any other language. After that concealment, don't know, probably still the case that it has been Latin and Greek and not other languages.

>>24478090
You're welcome

>>24478084
>That has no impact on the question though.
>whether I have experience and knowledge in the subject I'm giving opinions about doesn't matter
It certainly does. The validity of arguments isn't dependent on the source if that's what you're thinking of, but you're not giving arguments but rather just propositions, and truth and falsehood of propositions is not the same as validity of arguments, if you had actually studied the trivium you'd know the difference. Even if you were giving arguments, the truth and falsehood of the propositions they were made of is not the same as validity of the arguments, again if you had actually studied the trivium you'd know this.

>>24478088
>Red Hot Chili Peppers and Felix Mendelssohn's string quartets are equal in cultural value
Sure thing bud.

>>24478099
For what, dumbass? I just relayed my reasoning which has nothing to do with info received in this thread.

>>24478120
Over-eager charlatans make the funniest posts. Never change, /lit/

>>24478282
Not an argument. Study logic. What's your actual point? Elaborate on what you meant by "That has no impact on the question though". Are you denying that the truth and falsehood of an argument's premises is something different from the validity of the same argument? Are you denying that there is a difference between a proposition and an argument? Are you denying that you two were only presenting propositions and not arguments? I don't have even an inkling what you are trying to convey with your annoyed muffled mutterings, they are simply too vague to have any meaning whatsoever, akin to the groans of a dog, are you hungry, did you hear an intruder, do you have an insect bite? I can only speculate.

>>24478136
Your gratitude is appreciated! Come back anytime for more

>>24478379
Be humbler. I have no reason to thank you for anything.

>>24478418
No need to dissemble, you are very welcome. Salve, filio, atque vale. /clg/ welcomes you and invites you to seek more solutions to your life's dilemmas..

>>24477783
Thanks.
>comments
Would be great if you could just add that the Anglo-Norman dictionary works great with continental Old French too, as early stages of the language were just an amalgam of Old French dialects. The interface makes it more convenient than Godefroy, which, though the most exhaustive, is also padded out with poorly attested lemmas.

>>24478787
>>24478787