Thread 24546091

How was divine liturgy today?

Recommended Literature—
>The Orthodox Study Bible
>The Philokalia
>The Way of a Pilgrim
>God’s Revelation to the Human Heart by Fr. Seraphim Rose
>Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Fr. Seraphim Rose
Search for all of them here: https://archive.org/

https://youtu.be/b5og4ibQVZs?si=TLOXfxoCCtT-jh0R

>>24546091 (OP)
>Orthodox Christian Literature
what's the language of orthodoxy, Greek? Slavonic?

Seraphim Rose is a meme. Doesn't deserve place of honor w other books.

If want to suggest intro books then why not Timothy/Kallistos Ware? Or Vladimir Lossky?

Only popular among deracinated amerimutt alt whiters...

Don't forget to collect all your funko pop idols and make sure you bow to them and kiss them.

>>24546370
*Seraphim is only popular...

>>24546091 (OP)
Which Orthodoxy?
Old Believer Orthodox (many Old Believers are not in communion with mainstream Russian Palamites in addition to groups such as the Bespopovtsy)?
Oriental Orthodox?
Assyrian Orthodox Church of the East?
Eastern Orthodox on the side of Russia in the current schism?
Or Eastern Orthodox on the side of the Constantinople, Alexandria, Ukraine, Greece & Cyprus in the current schism?
Or Old Calenderist Eastern Orthodox (such as the Matthewites & Cyprianites)?
Or Western Orthodox Churches (such as the Celtic Orthodox Church & British Orthodox Church)?
Or “True” Orthodox?

>>24546394
Disingenuous post. There's only EO and OO. The Constantinople/Moscow issue is only between clergy and doesn't even affect laity. Nobody even thinks about the other schismatic churches you mentioned. You don't know what you're talking about
>>24546380
Don't forget to listen to the word of Pastor Joe (pbuh) when it comes to interpreting the book which was compiled by... Wait, never mind

>>24546359
There is no "language of Orthodoxy", just read the books translated into your language or english

>>24546469
>b-but w-we c-compiled the books (and included non-inspired trash because we can't even spiritually discern it's not inspired and isn't the voice of the Good Shepherd because you're in a false religion that attaches works to salvation because you're self-righteous Pharisees)
>therefore idolatry is okay
Cathodox and the various Alexandrian priest cults are literally for NPCs who want some "experts" to trust instead of trusting God.

The notion of trusting God for accurate interpretation is so foreign to you because you're not even saved and not indwelt with the holy Spirit of God and because you want to be ruled over by a man instead of being ruled by God alone. The Bible says God has made me a priest and king, part of the royal priesthood; you bow to pictures and kiss them because you're an idolatrous fool who trusts in man and man's traditions instead of God and His Word. You don't even quote Scripture to make arguments, you just post fedora-tier quips like some furfag atheist or sodomite jew.

Also, Psalms 115:4-8.

>>24546508
Chronically online post, not even worth engaging

>>24546469
>when it comes to interpreting the book which was compiled by... Wait, never mind
Comparing the Roman Church to the modern Orthodox one is a pointless endeavour. Practices like Hesychasm were considered borderline heretical and not tolerated outside of monastic communities until the 14th century. The whole cult of Icons is a creation of the 9th century as a reaction to the rather mild rejection of icons in Church life by Emperors. You can champion the Catholic Church just as much as any Orthodox one by the metric of Late Antiquity.

>>24546524
That's not related to my post, though. Your interpretation is biased but I know from experience that these debates are sterile. I indeed avoid comparing the RC to the EO because pointing out differences is fruitless and leads to further division. Catholics like to say the RC and EO make up the Church's two lungs and that's fine with me as long as it doesn't involve concelebration or ecumenist concessions.
Either way, the pre-schism Church compiled the Bible and Protestantism is a demonic heresy.

>>24546536
>Your interpretation is biased
It is not biased to acknowledge the fact that the Orthodox Church has changed over time, introduced new theological points and was influenced by secular powers to change traditions and ideas.

>>24546550
Debatable, but even assuming so, it would unarguably be to a much lesser extent than the RC

Anyone read Solovyov? Like him, I pray for healing of great schism. His thoughts on antichrist are prescient too. Bulgakov takes his heterodox sophiological speculation in an interesting trinitarian direction. Truly one of the great theologians of modernity. Read recently Florensky as well. Crossroads of Science and Mysticism is a trip.
-t. yr catlick brother in Christ

>>24546590
>I pray for healing of great schism
Me too. It seems to me like we're closer now than we've been for quite some time. The EO/OO schism can easily be mended with a bit of effort on both parts, and as for Rome, I don't think it would be as difficult as hyper trads on both sides make it out to be. Leo XIV has expressed interest, the EP as well, unfortunately the Ukraine thing remains a big obstacle that makes a pan-orthodox synod currently unlikely

>>24546604
I suggest reading Solovyov. Wonderful writer. At least in translation. Pseudo-Hegelian but more Orthodox despite some sophiological tendencies (hesitate to even use word, however... why is say Boethius not a sophiologist? and does it imply we should link it to pietist christian theosophy speculation?). Anyway, there is a wonderful almost dialectical tension between his vision of healed schisms in a true mystical church versus the promises of an antichrist who tries to unite all but w a depotentiated non divine christ.

>>24546475
>we're only orthodox when it suits us and don't have to make any effort
>let a protestant do the translations

>>24546576
>inarguably
Meh. Debatable as well

But not a debate worth having on a casual forum such as this

Too often develops into shadowboxing of egos and non academic sleights of selective sourcing and shitflinging

>>24546638
There's orthodox approved Bibles in most languages

What purpose do you serve by assclowning in this thread? Surely tis not good for soul?

>>24546635
>his vision of healed schisms in a true mystical church versus the promises of an antichrist who tries to unite all
This sounds interesting, thank you
I'm really tired of the current obsession with dispensationalism and I have been struggling to find contemporary writers who have a theologically mature take on eschatology.
>>24546638
Absolutely nonsensical post
>>24546653
Yes, it's not worth it. Accentuating differences also kills discussion and as long as some limits remain clear such as concelebration, I'm fully in favor of fostering a spirit of unity between RC, EO and OO rather than constantly bicker about who is the truer Church.

>>24546658
I have a hard time believing posters like this even go to church regularly. Terminally online behavior

>>24546665
Yes. Dispensationalism reeks of an unholy mixture of joachimism and millenarianism and dominionism and zionism (but also anti-semitism) typical alas of many prots in their pseudo gnostic faith only errance which ignore the rich history of church(es) and classical theology.
>>24546672
Why would they? As mentioned above, one such as he can feel the spirit (of his prelest) guide him without need for any intermediary to God

Womp womp

>>24546524
First Ecumenical council was held in Nicea.... bellow an icon... To claim icons are evil is to claim that the first Ecumenical council was evil. Also, those emperors you mentioned? Leo III raped little boys... not a very mild emperor... oh, and he wanted to ban icons, Patriarch refused and called him out on it.... he killed the Patriarch...

test

How will you guys feel/react to any kind of union between Rome and Constantinople?

As a Roman Catholic, I think its ideal, but only a first step. I can imagine that in the direction we are going we would be willing to make dialogue with what the Greeks believe instead of just demanding absolute submission to Latin Catholicism. I'm not sure how you guys will take it.

>>24546511
>>24546672
>>24546740
Orthodog apologetics are so embarrassing. Don't even know what the Bible says so all you have are snarky/haughty fedora-tier quips. Pathetic.
>St. John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
>I. John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Go watch your washedout dude80slmao fag who doesn't even know how to wear a button up shirt and who wears sunglasses inside and bows to and kissing paint on a canvas, lol.

>>24547027
Orthodogs already white knight the Roman Catholic cult fairly regularly. I'm sure most of them would welcome it. But it comes down to which idols they want to worship, the statues like the Cat-licks or the paint on a canvas like the Ortho-dogs.

there are no substantially differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy that will prevent you from ascending to heaven

>>24547027
Depends on the union
An overly ecumenist stance where Constantinople would be willing to make a lot of concessions would just create another schism within the Orthodox Church itself
The main points (Filioque, papism, immaculate conception) should be addressed and theological dialogue should lead to a conclusion that would be acceptable to all with humility. Demanding submission one way or the other would just deepen the break and not resolve anything
More minor issues like purgatory and anathemas would actually not be that important because a large degree of autonomy should be afforded to all patriarchates anyway, and Rome would certainly let that happen considering it barely demanded anything from byzantine rite Eastern Catholics (dogma-wise)
The biggest issue would be the Filioque because I don't see Rome as being willing to go back on the creed, and Orthodoxy will certainly not accept it as it is currently worded by Catholicism.
As for the papacy, the Orthodox never even denied primus inter pares, working out the issues with that would come down to everyone having the humility to discuss it in good faith and not be blinded by pride. Rome not simply demanding Orthodoxy to "submit", and the Orthodox not rejecting roman primacy as a simple matter of principle

>>24547063
based

Reminder to not engage with the prot larper's sad bait

>>24547063
Yeah, both are false religions and they're all going to hell since they have not trusted in God's grace through faith in Christ alone, but trust in their own works. Romans 11:6.

>>24547027
>>24547076
Also it's unfortunately the case that the current situation of the Orthodox clergy where Moscow and Constantinople have broken communion would most likely be an obstacle to reunification
Bartholomew is disliked by quite a large number of Orthodox especially from ROCOR and Moscow parishes due to his ecumenist positions and willingness to entertain interfaith dialogue to an extent considered by some to be excessive, as well as his behavior (not only towards Ukraine but on issues like the Archdiocese of russian orthodox churches in western europe) being called out as being pretty much papist
For reunification to take place I'm pretty sure Bartholomew's assent alone would not be sufficient despite his position unless he placates Moscow first

>>24547078
See >>24547015

anyone know what that is

>>24547049
See: >>24546702

>>24546994
>To claim icons are evil is to claim that the first Ecumenical council was evil.
The first council had nothing to do with icons nor did either Leo III or Constantine V even claim they are evil or try to ban icons. The only thing Leo III did was stop the creation of new icons while leaving ones already there in place and Constantine V removed ones that were placed at eye level but had little issue with ones up higher.
>Leo III raped little boys... not a very mild emperor... oh, and he wanted to ban icons, Patriarch refused and called him out on it.... he killed the Patriarch...
Why are you making things up? Germanus resigned and no action was taken against him. You literally don't know anything about Iconoclasm or the Emperors who supported it.

>>24548133
Christ sanctified matter, icons are theologically valid, why do you people keep bringing up issues that aren't even issues? Catholics themselves accept icons

bump

>>24546394
Oh nono latinx sisters whats this???

>>24547333
Looks like a Jesus Flag icon patch

>>24549455
ouch I wasn't aware it was that bad

>>24549455
If there's ever a reunification between cath and ortho what will probably happen is just orthos recognizing the pope and everything else remaining the same

>>24546394
the True Orthodox and Old Calendarists are the same thing, they are the true Church but be aware of which synod of theirs you join, some are genuinely schismatic because it's easier in these dissident groups to fly from canonical measures, if you're in US I suggest joining GOC-K or ROAC, they are not schismatic, the first is the main greek old calendarist synod and the later was old ROCOR's creation for the true orthodox in Russia

>>24546370
not OP but Fr. Seraphim Rose isn't a "meme", even if some of his takes seem debatable or too rethorical in nature, his writings have been helpful for many people and touch upon relevant contemporary issues.

Kallistos Ware is too ecumenist and Lossky is kind of meh but worth reading if you're going to read multiple books on orthodox theology ig. What I'd rather recommend is Pomazansky's Orthodox Dogmatic Theology and for commentary on Scripture (New Testament), Archbishop Averky's three volume set is a gem, you can find all of them on Amazon.

I tried EO and desu Catholicism won. I can't stand it

>>24552579
Why?

How does one properly repent from an Orthodox perspective?

>>24553716
Orthodox spirituality views repentance as a lifelong journey towards theosis (deification or union with God). We are always striving to grow closer to God and become more like Him.

I'm Catholic but I enjoy learning about the Eastern Roman Empire.

I fuckin' love My Savior
Can you even imagine
Way back in the past when
The world was lost in sin and endless strife
No hope for redemption
But then, God sent His glory
A Savior came to show us
The way to everlasting truth
That unshakable, life-changing, grace-filled proof

I fuckin' love my Savior
And I love the Word of Jesus
‘Cause I don’t think it’s wrong to trust what’s been foretold
In the pages of the Bible, God’s love unfolds
There’s nothing here to argue against
It’s a promise, not a fantasy
And I fuckin' love my Savior

Sometimes people ask me
Of all the paths to journey
Which I’d choose to walk in faith and live my days
Well, that’s pretty easy
Right now, if you seek His mercy
If you love grace and forgiveness
And the peace that Jesus brings
The hope of heaven’s promise
And the joy His Spirit sings
Feel the love of the Father
And the strength to carry on

I fuckin' love my Savior
And I love the Apostle Paul
‘Cause I think it’s bold to share the truth you’re told
When the world tries to dim the light of your soul
There’s nothing here to argue against
It’s a promise, not a fantasy
And I fuckin' love my Savior

Healing through His holy touch
Forgiveness for the sins of us
The cross He bore, the empty grave
The love of God, the world He saved
Eternal life, His sacrifice
The Holy Spirit’s guiding light
Just take a sec to think about it
How lost we’d be without it

I fuckin' love my Savior
And I love Mary Magdalene
‘Cause I want to live proclaiming why
His grace is more important than fleeting pride
There’s nothing here to argue against
It’s a promise, not a fantasy
And I fuckin' love my Savior!

>>24553779
you are fucking asshole

>>24553779
كس امك

>>24546380
Pic related is a lie. Young white men are discriminated against on every level of society. Everyone is a criminal except for straight white young rightist conservative rural non-collage educated non-managerial working class or aristocratic men.

>>24553779
gem in a coal heap

>>24553761
I'm just somewhat discouraged because I always fall into the same sins, knowingly, and so I feel like my repentance and asking for forgiveness is hypocritical or even performative since I really struggle to change

join /lit/cord
https://discord.gg/EMq43xYNxq

>>24546091 (OP)
Greek: For the Greek Orthodox Church, the liturgy is often conducted in Koine Greek (the language of the New Testament and early Christian writings)

>>24553779
do you love your mom

>>24555665
>>24555721
>>24555960
No offense, but representations of the Father are heresy

>>24554625
>I always fall into the same sins
So does everyone else, the idea is to fall forward and ask God for help constantly. Go read the desert fathers and the lives of the saints

>>24547076
>The main points (Filioque, papism, immaculate conception)
If you believe that these are the main points, you have barely scratched the surface. Us Orthodox have a different understanding of who God is (Monarchia), how salvation works, and the acts of God in the world (energia). Not to mention our theological starting point is Christological first and how we determine Who God is solely rests on negation (what he isn't) or revelation. Go read the dialogue between Saint Gregory Palamas and Barlaam

>>24554625
July 6 commemorated St Sisoes of Egypt. He was really humble and lived a pretty austere life. On his deathbed he said, “I do not think that I have even begun to repent.”
It’s a process and it can take a long time. I find confession very helpful, including having the same priest each time who knows your history and your ups and downs. I’ve also been tempted and not sinned because I didn’t want to have to bring it up in confession. That same Sunday our epistle read was Romans 6:18-23, all about paradoxes of freedom and slavery and also makes the really astute observation that when you look back at a life of “freedom” spent wallowing in sin it’s just embarrassing.
Believe in grace, believe in hope, believe in God’s love for you. You’re alright and you can make it.

>>24556104
>>24556161
Thank you anons, this is helpful. I pray every night and ask Him to forgive me even though my repentance isn't sincere enough, even though my prayer isn't good enough, and I just ask that God stay with me and help me carry the weight even though I am not worthy of His grace and forgiveness

>>24556202
Here's the link to a book with all the sayings of the desert fathers: https://www.amazon.com/Sayings-Desert-Fathers-Alphabetical-Collection/dp/0879079592

>my repentance isn't sincere enough, even though my prayer isn't good enough
The driest prayer means something, especially if done with a broken heart (Pslam 50:17). God just asks us to keep trying, don't you remember the parable of the Prodigal Son?
>I am not worthy of His grace and forgiveness
None of us are, yet his mercy endureth forever. Is God's mercy not greater than man's iniquity? This is why Christ healed the lepers, to show us that He can heal anyone, if they are willing

>>24556222
Yeah, I have the Sayings of the Desert Fathers, haven't gotten around to reading it yet. I really should
Checked. I try to acknowledge all this, but I am scared that by relying on God's grace and mercy, I will eventually, unconsciously even, use it as an excuse to keep sinning. I'm sure this happens a lot, going "well, I can indulge this one time, God will forgive me anyway", which is precisely the kind of mindset I want to avoid at all costs.
>the Prodigal Son
This one is particularly hopeful, since the son didn't return with noble intentions, he returned just because his life was in the gutter and he wanted food and shelter, if I recall correctly. I take it that it means God will receive us even if our intentions are impure, as long as we want to be with Him?

>>24555983
they are found on pinterest and available to everyone why it is heresy here

you are a bad soul

>>24556238
It is heresy in Orthodoxy to represent the Father. Nicaea II sanctioned the veneration of icons but emphasized that only the incarnate Word i.e. Christ be depicted, since He became visible in the flesh. The Father being invisible and transcendent is not to be portrayed in any physical form.

>>24556233
>I will eventually, unconsciously even, use it as an excuse to keep sinning. I'm sure this happens a lot
You are not the first person to struggle with this (I have this issue myself), even the apostle Paul had a similar struggle (Romans 7:15). God's mercy isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card, it requires our active participation. We believe in synergy, hence like the son (in the parable) we must constantly remember God and try to walk towards Him.


>if I recall correctly. I take it that it means God will receive us even if our intentions are impure
God already knows our hearts, he knows how wretched we are (and all the stupid things we think and hold in our hearts). Yet even if we turn to Him just a little bit, it is enough. We are not like the Latins, who think that God is some strict legalistic judge. No, God is a person who loves us, and will look for any means to save us. If we turn to Him, He will come running out to embrace us. That's the beauty of this parable.
>>24556250
This is true, and to depict the father (try to, you can't) is to imply that the son isn't sufficient. Which is ridiculous, "If you have seen me, you have seen the father"

>>24556250
Wrong, the father want to be seen as well

bumpp

>>24556260
This is also what I like about Orthodoxy. It is an organic, living faith, not legalistic. Even things like the scapular and penances I find kind of shocking and strange, the synergy you talk about makes a lot more sense in the context of a God who not only loves but is love.
>If we turn to Him, He will come running out to embrace us. That's the beauty of this parable.
Yes. Thank you, I should reread it when I have doubts like this

Any Orthodox fiction authors akin to a C.S Lewis or Tolkien, hell even Sanderson at minimum?

>>24558599
There's Eugene volokadzin, Nicholas Kotar off the top of my head.

>>24558645
Thanks I'll check them out

>>24558651
For Volokadzin, I rec Lazarus

Despair is hard to overcome

>>24559059
God bless