Thread 24597976

>modernity is so fucked up, in part, because it took this fatcel and incel seriously
>both say obviously absurd things like "we cannot know if the sun will rise tomorrow," "you cannot ever say that anything caused anything else," "nothing is really true, there is only interpretations," or "I don't even exist bro, there is no I," and my favorite "nothing is good or bad, deep."

These are clearly false. Anyone who wants to say nothing is really bad should go prove it by putting their nuts in a blender and turning it on and then explain how having your nuts in a blender is really not bad but good.

How did people fall for this sophistry, especially when so many later forms seem to just layer on more and more absurdities like "words can never refer to anything" or "languages don't exist, but also people are just nexuses of language," only to conclude with: "and this is why you should do what I say!"

I read Laozi, Aristotle, Augustine, Boethius, or Shankara, and I think: "damn, that's pretty wise." I read the "great" moderns and it is almost always some sort of sophistry showing some absurdity must be true (bonus if it is self-refuting), or "and this is why we should just rut and binge eat and do whatever we want and real freedom is being like the most indulged toddler ever!!! Men can even become women if they feel like it. Freedom!"

What happened to make everyone lose their mind?

>>24597976 (OP)
Very few people who say 'nothing is really bad' mean that literally no experience can be painful, harmful, or undesirable in a practical sense. They might be saying something more nuanced - such as: suffering is subjective, or that experiences are neutral until interpreted, or that judgment of 'badness' is conditioned rather than absolute.

>guy is terrified of the implications of Nietzsche's ideas
>retreats to comfy feel-good moralism so he doesn't have to think scary thoughts
lmao, same old story

>>24597976 (OP)
>What happened to make everyone lose their mind?
Martin Luther and by extension the Rosicrucians, not sure how much further back the buck the can be passed

just a tip OP don't namedrop your chang philosopher it gives the game away.

Hume's analysis of causation doesn't say that we cannot know causality or that the sun will rise again. He merely states that we cannot _infer_ that the sun will rise again, etc.
The result of his analysis is that our knowledge of causality steams from habit rather than thinking. He opened the door to more sophisticat theories about logic and learning psychology.

>I read Laozi, Aristotle, Augustine, Boethius, or Shankara, and I think: "damn, that's pretty wise."

Shankara? Never heared of him.
I observe that all the thinkers you citate as good seems to deal with some kind of metaphysics or spirituality. I would make a excusion for Aristoteles, the others tell something.
Let me bet, you're a believer?

If you really believe that Hume etc. are the rootcause of our destruction, maybe you should read:
David Stove, Against the Idols of the Age

While I came to dislike Popper, today I think Stove is a bad philosopher. You, however, should give him a try.

>>24597976 (OP)
>Laozi
The taoíst idea that existence Is caused from non-existence in the tao te Ching Is what created a anti-causality school of tought in china that predates Hume's by centuries

>>24597976 (OP)
Hume and Nietzsche absolutely did not create modernity

It was Galileo and Descartes

>>24598055
You can blame Ockham too. Maybe even Scotus as well.

Or you can blame the Great Schism for removing the proper counterbalance of Eastern theology.

>>24597976 (OP)
>These are clearly false.
You are a mindless religious fanatic.

>>24597985
Nice pilpul slipping that last one in there with the others.

>>24598020
There's nothing scary about nothing le mattering

>>24597976 (OP)
What happened to make everyone lose their mind? The extreme trauma of two world wars and centuries of liberal ideas being propagated caused people to lose faith in God. No religion, no special creation, no spark of divinity, men are nothing more than mud golems killing and raping each other for iotas.
Moral nihilists are terrified that life might actually be a gift and have innate meaning. If you do not have special creation or man made in the image of God, what do you have?

>>24599585
>The extreme trauma of two world wars and centuries of liberal ideas being propagated caused people to lose faith in God.

Skydaddy leave us?

>>24599368
Please send your video of your nuts in a blender to substantiate your claim. Otherwise, it seems like you lack the courage of your convictions. Remember, your blended nuts are no worse or worse for you than unblended ones.

>>24599918
You can't even pretend you're capable of making sense.

>>24599109
Say the filioque Byzatard.

>>24599585
>centuries of liberal ideas being propagated caused people to lose faith in God.
lol. what?

>>24597976 (OP)
Humans require structure and meaning in their lives, often from some authoritative guiding force. But when people decry this guiding force as false, then all structure and meaning in their lives disappear. The ironic problem is of course that people can't tell the difference between wise teachers and false ones.

>>24598524
*Machiavelli and Bacon, actually, followed by Hobbes, Galileo, and Descartes.

>>24601469
I say this because liberal ideas broadly include things like religious indifferentism and the separation of Church and State.

>>24597976 (OP)
Read Jung.

>>24599380
Only because you take it at face value.
Clearly you don't get how terrifying and liberating is to know that there are no limits except the ones you choose for yourself

>>24598524
>>24601542
They started modernity; Hume and Nietzsche (plus Marx) are what ruined it.

>>24599585
Christianity died because it was full of shit, and has an extremely primitive understanding of what religion even is.

>>24597976 (OP)
>it took this fatcel and incel seriously
these*
>there is only interpretations
are*

>>24597976 (OP)
Philosophizing with the Intestine is not very wise. You mischaracterize all the things Hume and Nietzsche are putting forward, and even worse dismiss them like a stupid boor.
>How did people fall for this sophistry,
Because in contrast to you, teaching them to read and write was not a colossal waste of time.
Also you are most definitely just imposing your pre-existing beliefs on two or three of the thinkers you mentioned as good. Maybe all of them.

>>24597976 (OP)
Don't bother reading anything past the medievals and ancients, because disappointment is inevitable. Nothing can be more based than being an Romano-Germanic warrior bishop, an uber/lit/erarus versed on everything from the Hermeticum to St. Gregory of Tours, extracting more taxes and levying more heavy cavalry to grow and defend his ever-expanding library. So read what they would have read and read on what they were like (use After Empire's Bibliography of Translated Sources), and apply that in your life, rather than read people who talk about achieving greatness but never get there.

Morality is objective. Even the child and village idiot know this.

>>24597976 (OP)
This nigga
When does blender aquire the property of "bad"????
Things are not bad. Kys

>>24600182
Hmm, apparently you do think some things are bad... otherwise you wouldn't keep dodging the ask. Nuts, in blender.

>>24598020
Saying nothing matters is unironically more comforting than having everything matter. What are you talking about?

>>24602199
Why isn't Thomas Reid discussed more as the superior Scottish philosopher?

>>24601553
The state is inhenrently unchristian, straight the fuck up evil, and kept the church as underlings for their will for centuries. The state cannot and will not exist without breaking apart christian ideals to keep itself running. Reminder Jesus was killed by the state. Remember every last martyr that has died because of the state. Both should be split because both cannot coexist. Stop spilling bro state nonsense anon
>>24602317
They plundered and raped people anon

it's not modern it's ancient. socrates argues against sophists who claim truth is unknowable, everything is random, man is the measure of all things etc.

>>24602545
>They plundered and raped people anon
No they didn't. Several were wealthy men who abandoned all status, worldly comforts, etc. and accepted celibacy to follow more fully the True and the Good. They were often called upon to adjudicate disputes because of their kindness and dispassion, as well as their wisdom. When raiders came, they accepted martyrdom but also converted many, which is why their communities have survived 1,500+ years in a hostile Muslim climate and despite not producing children.

Modernity is fucked becuse we've been under 2000 years of Abrahamic nonsense. N understood this. btw kill yourself tranny janny christcuck faggot.

>>24602545
But Church and State have coexisted for thousands of years, the divine informs the world on how they should govern themselves.
I won't argue that Jesus was not killed by "the state" but there is nothing 'anti-imperial' or 'anti-state' about Christianity. You should look at what St. Justin Martyr has to say about the matter.

>>24602821
I'm sorry you were raised by a single mom. my bad.

>>24602821
Christians speaking eloquently over the finer details of history and what it means to be a good person meanwhile this guy is typing slurs and posting frogs. If only I could decide who to believe!

>>24603757
>believe
Typical of a moron who has no knowledge

>>24603785
knowledge usually implies a faith in of itself in the pursuit of truth.

>>24603785
>he believes he can know without faith

>>24597976 (OP)
Hegel determined Descartes, I mean guenon, to be the passive one. You go ahead and transition.

>>24597976 (OP)
>Anyone who wants to say nothing is really bad should go prove it by putting their nuts in a blender and turning it on and then explain how having your nuts in a blender is really not bad but good.
this is a strawman. the belief is not "all states of affairs are equally good," but rather "my preference for a state of affairs is not grounded in a universal truth." i don't want my balls because of the divine order or whatever. i want them because i like busting fat loads. my balls would only cease to matter if i stopped caring about them (and what they can do for me). for example, if i belonged to a religious order that valued chastity, i might prefer to be a eunuch, since that would make me better able to follow my faith.

>>24597976 (OP)
People who say that morality is objective clearly lack creativity, it is possible to have such scenarios where your objectivity will fall apart and you won't even know what is the correct choice, even something as simple as the trolley problem will destroy you

>>24597976 (OP)
I disagree. It's because of industrialisation and technology. If you took away technology and kept those two fine fellows, you'd never have anything like modern society.

>>24597976 (OP)
You misunderstand Hume, his argument is.
> All scientific knowledge is and can only ever be derived from consistent repeated cause and effect observations. Therefore the only conclusion you can rely on is the one derived from your own experience.
You misunderstand Nietszche as well, he doesn't argue against the existence of a moral and just man but rather what you consider to be right and wrong is not something society should figure out for you but which you should figure out for yourself. A very synonymous conclusion to Hume actually but one is regarding morals the other regarding scientific knowledge.

>>24597976 (OP)
True