How is this the most holy book in Judaism?
It's the most hair splitting nit-picky, "akchually" bunch of needless minutia & "gotcha"s I've ever read. It's entirely stuff like:
>if hot water is put into cold water using the left hand at noon on Wednesdays it is unclean, but not if it crosses a road first, unless the road is made of stones, or if the water sat for half a day and yadda yadda yadda
That's ALL this shit is. Did I mention it's long AF? It's like 15 Das Kapital in length.

>>24601037 (OP)
People reading religious texts as if they were some YA novel shit to review on their booktok account will always surprise me. YWNBAkike

what's the best eng translation of the talmud

>>24601037 (OP)
Why do you think they make such good lawyers?

>>24601045
>YWNBAkike
I DON'T be a fucking Jew. I want to understand thier religion.
>>24601048
>what's the best eng translation of the talmud
I'm reading the Micheal L. Rodkinson translation. IDK if it's good, but it's free, so there's that.

>>24601037 (OP)
The most holy book is the Torah, you are reading the Jewish equivalent of the ramblings of Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas
with a couple of law-making Popes in there as well.
I like the abridged Talmud that only focuses on the ancient mythology that did not make it into the Bible and recommend that if you want a more interesting read

>>24601058
This book was pretty interesting from the angle of trying to understand Judaism

>>24601037 (OP)
The fuck were you expecting? It's a legal book. The Talmud is essentially a collection of case-law, jurisprudential guides, and relevant anecdotes, for interpreting the laws given in the Torah. Attempting to read the Talmud as if it were a narrative, or even an argument is asinine. You're reading a book of laws, and then complaining that it's technical and nitpicky.

>>24601112
>This book was pretty interesting from the angle of trying to understand Judaism
Sounds good but is there a free version. I'll even take an audiobook if I have too.

>>24601117
It's on Anna's Archive

>>24601037 (OP)
As other anons said, the Talmud is a book of laws. I thought you wanted to read the Torah instead of it lol
Learn the difference between the Talmud, Tanakh and Torah. It's very simple

The funniest thing in the world is when rabbis try to say "judaism isn't a religion" in the sense that it isn't organized when the whole thing is just legalistic bullshit that doesn't mean anything.

>>24601037 (OP)
>How is this the most holy book in Judaism?
Who told you that it is?
Why did you believe their lies?
The Talmud only matters to Orthodox Jews anyway, non-Orthodox Jews don't give a shit about it.

>>24601270
>The Talmud is the central text of Rabbinic Judaism and the primary source of Jewish religious law (halakha) and Jewish theology. Until the advent of modernity, in nearly all Jewish communities, the Talmud was the centerpiece of Jewish cultural life and was foundational to "all Jewish thought and aspirations", serving also as "the guide for the daily life" of Jews

>>24602882
Did you make that source up or did you ask AI?

>>24602882
>Until the advent of modernity,
Well there you go.

>>24601037 (OP)
Dont bother reading it. Just ask an honest jew (christian) whats in it and he'll be straight up if he fears God.
https://youtu.be/tIup4POS2O8?si=2aJ26Ne6hng4YOWw

>>24601037 (OP)
Look, we struck a deal with G-d, and we’ve gotta figure the way to get the better end of it.
Kidding aside, the Torah is obviously the most holy of Jewish scriptures, not the Talmud. Bad analogy: if the Torah is the Constitution, then Talmud is case law. Case law and the precedents it sets are important for the functioning of a legal system, but the Constitution is both the basis and cause for a legal regime at all. The Nevi’im and Ketuvim, as part of the Tanakh, are also “more holy” than the Talmud. I don’t know how to fit them into this legal analogy so well, though.
At the end of the day, don’t listen to me. It’s all mumbo jumbo and woo woo to me and I don’t keep with it. Like most Jews, incidentally. I got chosen by G-d and all I got was this lousy overwhelming sense of guilt.

>>24601037 (OP)
That's what all religious books are like, retard. They are guidebooks that give you instructions on how to do every little thing in your day to day life in the most spiritually sound way possible. They come up with these rituals after autistically micromanaging everything over generations until they think they've reached the best combination. And a lot of it works. Modern materialist faggots won't get it because they think like midwit shitposters. They have no nuance in their mindset, worldview, or life.

>>24606238
nta but if the Talmud is as long as they say, then how do Jews remember to follow the rules? Is this what Jewish schools are for? You know to memorize it all.

>>24606352
Yeah but the Talmud is ridiculous, it's like the rules needed to enter a clean room. What is the environmental historical social pressure that demanded the development of this?

>>24606795
Religious Jews tend to be pretty communal! Keeping up the law is a collective obligation, or something. Of course, there are wunderkinder who are able to memorize everything themselves, and even if it’s not like photographic memory, a good portion Haredim make Talmudic scholarship their life’s work and more still take it on as very serious side-hustle.
There are also children who memorize the Qu’ran at 3, or several thousand digits of Pi by 4. In all communities, these are exceptional cases. Jewish schools are mostly just schools, you know, with bad science curriculums and yes indeed the study of Judaism as an additional subject.

>>24606834
NTA but are you Jewish? I'm descendant from Jews (just my parenta are atheists). I heard I can get Israel citizenship and neetbux so I dont have to work and just play games and watch anime all day. Is ti true? IDK anything about Jews btw, like nothin.

>>24606899
Yes I am Jewish, yes that sounds like a possibility for you if your parents are ethnically Jewish, but I hasten to add that I cannot and will not recommend such a course on several grounds. I won’t say more because my country defines anti-semitism as something other than anti-semitism

>>24606238
>Kidding aside, the Torah is obviously the most holy of Jewish scriptures, not the Talmud.
Yeah, you mean "Torah" as in "Oral law". Deceptive wordplay if I ever saw it. See pic.

When the cultists who claim to be Jews say "Torah," they secretly mean their own "oral Law" or "Mishnah." To complete the semantic trick, they will deceptively refer to the "Talmud" restrictively as only the Gemara, and not Mishnah + Gemara. Even though in most common usage the BT really includes both Mishnah and Gemara in most normal usage of the term.

>I don’t keep with it. Like most Jews, incidentally.
Those who claim to be Jews today have nothing to do with the biblical Jews who existed in the 1st century AD. They are more closely related to pagans who lived in Eastern Europe in ancient times, and their religion is derived from Gnosticism, which itself was a heresy of Christianity.

>>24606795
>nta but if the Talmud is as long as they say, then how do Jews remember to follow the rules?
Talmudists are like most other cults. They don't study the text themselves, and they don't have to because it doesn't even make sense internally. The text is only there as an excuse for the cult leaders to tell them what to do. In this case, the cult leaders call themselves Rabbis. In other cases, you have stuff like JWs who follow the Watchtower society, Mohammadens who follow whatever the mullah or local sham scholar says, and so forth. Jim Jones gave orders to his modern-day cult as well. Judaism is just another cult with its own cult leaders, exactly like those groups. In this case it is an offshoot of gnosticism in the 3rd to 5th century AD, which itself was a heresy of Christianity.

>>24606953
Your sectarianism means nothing to me, I already said it’s gobbledegook!

>>24606968
If you are the person I responded to, you claimed falsely to be a Jew.

>>24606970
If you are the person I responded to, your opinion means nothing to me. It’s not my fault you’re autistic, don’t make it my fucking problem.

>>24606978
The first lie you tell is when you claim to be a Jew. That isn't true, and you saying it doesn't change anything.

>>24606899
>>24606922
>>24606953
By the will of the merciful one the non believers and the Jews will burn. God knows what's in your hearts and in your minds you cannot deceive him. Your judgement is coming. Fear God.

>>24607018
The level of irony in this pic is palpable.

>>24601056
Can you give an example scenario where having read Talmud helps in practicing as a lawyer?

Like, a lawyer won a case by using a tricky argument that he encountered when studying Talmud, the case was about a car crash and the case in the Talmud was about what to do with a meat of the mule that killed a person and later died in an accident.

>>24607629
What would that tricky argument be in your hypothetical?

>>24601037 (OP)
>How is this the most holy book in Judaism?
almost like kikes are incredibly pedantic and are obsessed with semantics

>>24606238
>Look, we struck a deal with G-d, and we’ve gotta figure the way to get the better end of it.
idiot, you're meant to figure out a way to get the better end of it BEFORE you make a deal

The Jewish religion is a game to come up with meaningless rules and then try to subvert them. One rabbi will write in the Talmud "God says you can't bake bread" and another rabbi will say "Who says I gotta bake it to eat it?" and another rabbi will say "Who says *I* gotta bake it?" and they'll all clap, as the third rabbi clearly made the laziest evasion of God's divine will and is the winner. This goes on for thousands of years and eventually they ran out of retarded tricks to do so they invented a new game: destroy the lives of everyone not Jewish.

>>24607852
“Let the ink dry, then fuck ‘em with the fine-print” is the motto. G-d can’t out-kvetch us, and we’ve got him outnumbered.

>>24606811
You can say the same about even the Hadiths. They have rules for even which foot to put in first while entering a bathroom and which direction to face while peeing and shitting. Romans also had weirdly specific and autistic rituals for every little thing. Its just what every culture comes up with over the course of its civilization to enforce rigid order and discipline to maximize spiritual, personal and social development of a person.

>>24607862
>The Jewish religion is a game to come up with meaningless rules and then try to subvert them. One rabbi will write in the Talmud...
The people who wrote the Talmud have nothing to do with the Jews described in the Bible.

The culture of Talmud is what made so many excellent Jewish legal scholars and logicians.

>>24608341
>The culture of Talmud is what made so many excellent Jewish legal scholars and logicians.
The thing about it is, the Talmud was written by a bunch of gnostics in late antiquity. It literally has zero connection to the Jews of the Bible, and certainly not to the Scriptures.

>>24601045
Fpbp ywnbakike you baka

>>24606985
Are you an alien from outer space trying to talk to a jew?.
Wtf are these phrasings

>>24607629
Catholics and Jews make very good lawyers because their religions teach them how to think, which is a supremely understudied method of learning.

>>24601117
>but is there a free version
you are already starting to understand them

>>24610176
kek

>>24609740
New to English?

>>24601037 (OP)
>It's like 15 Das Kapital in length.

Do you really think im brain rotted enough to know how long Das Kapital is?

>>24610630
It‘s long

>>24608275
>The people who wrote the Talmud have nothing to do with the Jews described in the Bible.
But they do. At least as far as continuity of tradition goes. They descend from the legalistic Pharisee sect of New Testament fame, which in turn is a different religion and ethnic group than the First Temple or early Second Temple religion.

>>24601037 (OP)
>How is this the most holy book in Judaism?
>It's the most hair splitting nit-picky, "akchually" bunch of needless minutia & "gotcha"s I've ever read.
Welcome to Orthodox Judaism

>>24608341
>The culture of Talmud is what made so many excellent Jewish legal scholars and logicians.
Also Israeli Air Force maintenance technicians. Really.

>>24601037 (OP)
Why do you think all jews are neurotic?

>>24611281
>Welcome to Orthodox Judaism
Judaism can't be orthodox according to Webster's dictionary.

>>24611592
>Why do you think all jews are neurotic?
Well, technically the people who call themselves "Jews" today do not actually have a connection to the ancient Jews of the 1st century AD.

>>24601037 (OP)
Anon, the Talmud is a forum where posters autistically argue about the Torah, its exegesis, and the Extended Abrahamic Universe

>>24611964
>Abrahamic

>>24612065
you are so retarded its fucking unreal

>>24610630
>knowing the length of seminal works of the Western Canon is brainrot
This place gets more retarded by the day

>>24610630
why does nobody on /lit/ read

>>24612149
>western canon
Found the American pseud

>>24608373
So then why is there Hasmonean-to-Herodian archaelogical evidence of the customs of Oral Torah as codified in the Mishnah? Ritually accurate tefillin found in the same cave as the dead sea scrolls & mikveh baths found on Masada that correlate with the laws codified by Judah HaNasi 120 years later.

>>24607629
That's such a stupid question. Reading can teach you how to think, improve your memory and such. It doesn't need to be letter by letter a quote from any text.

>>24610630
>"Huh, retard. Do you expect me to know shit?"

>>24601230
the talmud is not a book of law, so apparently not that simple for you

>>24612341
It's something called confirmation bias.

>>24601037 (OP)
I’m not Jewish so I may be talking out of my ass and misinterpreting things but one of the things I noticed when reading about religion/different holy texts (which explains a lot about Jewish culture, to me at least) is that, instead of the sort of all-loving, all-knowing, transcendent force of nature that God is in Christianity and Christian mysticism (this seems to originate in certain non-Rabbinic sects with influence from the Greeks and Zoroastrianism). God in Rabbinic Judaism and Rabbinical Mysticism is very much just a dude, an all powerful dude, but he’s so much more human than he is in Christianity (the whole “Old Testament God” joke), he’s a petty, jealous, arrogant, irrational asshole that more tolerates his position as ruler of everything than uses it to perfect the world, this is why the Rabbinic authorities feel that it’s fine to “cheat”, they find loopholes in every little law, and then go in on what you CANNOT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO! Lest Yahweh notices you fucked up and, in a hiss’s fit of rage, sends a plague upon your countrymen.

>>24615105
Don't make the mistake of equating the Second Temple Hebrews, the true Hebrews, with the post-70 AD diasporic "Jews," who are Pharisees, preferring the "oral Torah" (proto-rabbinical) tradition to the devotional prophetic-messianic tradition that was growing during the Second Temple period. The prophetic-messianic tradition produced a lot of gnostics, mystics, and ultimately Christians, as it inspired non-Jews with its talk of a loving God who wants you to transcend this world and its hypocrisy and pagan delights.

There is a very good book by Eckstein and Botticini about what happened to the Hebrew religion after the destruction of the Second Temple: farming-class, pietistic Hebrews gradually converted to Christianity or to "Jewish Christianity," and over time the Jewish Christian sects were absorbed into Christianity, while the "Jews" drew from urban merchant elites who could afford to send their kids to prestigious and costly Torah study (costly because in the ancient world it was a big deal to sacrifice multiple sons to study Torah when they could be at home working on and ultimately inheriting the family farm or business).

After the destruction of the Temple but before the arrival of Islam, the "Jews" were mostly in decline, as urban commerce was on the decline on the eastern Mediterranean due to all the wars between Rome and Persia. With every passing generation, more of them would join a more devotional, pietistic, Christian-adjacent form of Hebrew religiosity, like the Nazarenes and Ebionites, because they simply couldn't afford to stay in this literate mercantile elite. But then Islam came along and created a Mediterranean-spanning empire that had lots of lucrative roles for "Jewish" elite go-betweens, so the diasporic "Jewish" population had a boom. Pirenne says that a LOT of the slave trade of the late Roman and early Islamic Mediterranean was "Jews" enslaving Christians by the way.

Subsequent rabbinical-gaonic "Judaism" has very little to do with the ancient Hebrews, and next to nothing to do with what made Second Temple Hebrew religion beautiful and inspiring. It's a purely this-worldly religion of quasi-secular ethnocentric merchant elites. "Jews" are just white collar gypsies (liminal criminal profiteers), networked across Europe and the Islamic world by their linguistic training and go-between status.

>>24601116
100% correct and it’s designed to be read with a partner going back and forth debating the intricacies and loopholes of the laws. I’m convinced it’s the reason European Jews have such a high average IQ. European Jewish culture favored Torah scholars above everyone else. The ideal husband was not a rich man but a Torah scholar. The Torah scholars were the brightest in the community and therefore most desirable. These ‘white collar’ Jews pretty much outbred the ‘blue collar’ ones.

>>24615128
Thus the jews are bougie by nature.