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Thread 24689051

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Anonymous No.24689051 >>24689822 >>24689865 >>24690431 >>24690519 >>24693481 >>24694243 >>24694862 >>24694870 >>24696258 >>24699405 >>24700188 >>24700354
Even they are waking up for the fact that women only read porn.
Anonymous No.24689086 >>24690330 >>24690740 >>24694243 >>24695047
She is the anti-Leonie
Anonymous No.24689088
>women
Anonymous No.24689120 >>24689134 >>24694039 >>24697825 >>24697946 >>24698145
I skip sex scenes in books and TV shows. They add basically nothing to the story. I'm not some puritan - I watch TONS of porn. I'm just bored by reading about or watching people pretend to have sex. It's not interesting or sexy, it's just boring
Anonymous No.24689134 >>24689303 >>24689395 >>24689637 >>24689892 >>24698145
>>24689120
She argues that you watching porn is the same thing as women reading porn. She explicitly says the female brain is wired to respond better to written porn because they crave empathy and the storytelling which men don't. In hindsight this would explain a lot of the bad decisions women make and causes they support.
Anonymous No.24689303 >>24689340
>>24689134
The difference is that i can cum in 60 seconds and get back with my day - i dont spend a few hours a day watching porn
Anonymous No.24689340 >>24689395 >>24693784 >>24695039
>>24689303
Peterson nailed this part. A low status woman meets a high status man who falls madly in love and cares only for her. Women cum buckets for that. They don't talk about babies. But this is a jackpot reproduction wise for women.
Anonymous No.24689395 >>24689442 >>24697674
>>24689134
>because they crave empathy
>"I'm not like them; I have feelings!"
I believe that they think men don't require empathy but it's laughable.
I know it's a cringe example (not any more cringe than werewolves tbf) but there are two reasons why step fantasy got so popular, neither of which are physical or visual:
1. The taboo, obviously (social)
2. It's one of the only types of porn where the actors show more emotion than if they were assembling an IKEA set (emotional)
GFE is also ridiculously popular and frequently has no sexual content at all.
>>24689340
>But this is a jackpot reproduction wise for women.
It has about as much to do with reproduction as gooning to anime characters.
Anonymous No.24689416 >>24689428 >>24690298 >>24694243 >>24694286
The spergy 20-minute rant on how getting wet from non-consensual fairy fingering does not mean you enjoy it was clearly personal.
Anonymous No.24689428
>>24689416
After 30 years of being attracted to women, I am starting to reconsider my decision.
Anonymous No.24689442 >>24689448 >>24689999
>>24689395
I mean in the novels. It's all about hijacking your reproductive drive. For men it's super cutie youthfull sex nymphs. For women it's rich handsome loner Chad's who love them above all else. There is no better mate to reproduce with from a woman's standpoint.
Just like an average guys isn't going to have a uber attractive cutie fall on his lap. The average woman isn't going to have Elon Musk fly them to his space mansion and make love to them. Not for lack of trying on his part.
Anonymous No.24689448
>>24689442
How about poor mid loner chuds? Anyone?
Anonymous No.24689496 >>24690417 >>24694243 >>24694286 >>24698808
>How could this have happened?
Anonymous No.24689637 >>24689838 >>24689839 >>24689967 >>24690065 >>24690080 >>24690083 >>24695084 >>24696868 >>24697304 >>24700188
>>24689134
I watched the video and I can tell you that her point was woefully puritanical. Notice she can't even pronounce the word "porn" verbally, which is strange. The main problem of the video was saying that modern literature is too lewd, rash and inappropriate and women are evil for doing that. You can easily translate this to men watching anime, videogames with tons of fanservice and bouncing boobs.

Many women in the comment section started to say her point of view came as prudish and downright hysterical. Especially because censorship in 2025 is increasing all over the Internet.

If anything, literature and entertainment feels so soulless today because is much less transgressive than to say, literature in the 90s or the 80s. You could read all type of shit there and genuinely disturbing things that challenged standard views. You had pulp filled with ultra violence and sex scenes and for women you have all sort of vampire or witch literature dipping in occult stuff, tons of social critique, etc. By asking that women literature to be more prudish and even more sanitized is basically asking to kill literature for good (and eventually killing things like anime or anything actually fun for that matter).
Anonymous No.24689822 >>24689879 >>24690080
>>24689051 (OP)
I would take this woman more seriously if her writing wasn't so aggresively mediocre.
Anonymous No.24689838 >>24690382
>>24689637
Are you retarded? She doesn't say porn because the algorithm punishes your reach for it. She says as much at the start.

>By asking that women literature to be more prudish and even more sanitized
???
The new york best seller list has literal minotaur bestiality on it. What more do you fucking want. I like writing erotica desu (I've never published it other than showing it to ex gfs) but it should absolutely not be normal or publicly available. Making you coom != good for everyone.
Anonymous No.24689839
>>24689637
I watched it over a week ago so I might be remembering wrong, but I thought she mentioned at one point that she can't say the word "porn" because YouTube's automated censorship system will flag her video as adult content if she does. Her main argument is the familiar one that your brain's long-term reaction to continuous porn consumption works like drug resistance and you will inevitably need increasingly depraved content to feel the same thrill. There might be some truth to that but afaik there isn't enough research to say for sure.

The real problem is something else. Women have been reading smut forever, but it used to be quarantined to the smut ghetto in one corner of the bookstore with cover art of hunky men tearing women's clothes off, so you could recognize it for what it is a mile away and nobody pretended it was anything else. Some women got addicted to them, some women read them in moderation, overall it wasn't a big deal. Now this type of book has subdued cover art that doesn't convey much information and stores stock it in the fantasy and sci-fi section mixed in with normal books, and women pretend like it's ordinary genre fiction when they review it on social media. Nobody would have much of an issue with these books or even be aware of them if there wasn't this large scale gaslighting to pretend they're something other than porn. It's like if every third movie coming out of Hollywood was just explicit porn with low production value and porn stars instead of real actors and everyone in Hollywood pretended they were normal movies. Is the issue the porn itself or is it the way it's being mixed in with more mainstream content?
Anonymous No.24689865 >>24690463 >>24696346
>>24689051 (OP)
I like her aesthetic is she single
Anonymous No.24689868
i'm a man and i thought Twilight was good
Anonymous No.24689879 >>24690065
>>24689822
How bad can it b-
>Blue Prince
>On royalslop
Its xianxia slop isn't it?
Anonymous No.24689892 >>24689987 >>24694463
>>24689134
>She argues that you watching porn is the same thing as women reading porn
it obviously is, you will just never see any man pretend porn is high art and that they cultured for engaging with it
Anonymous No.24689967 >>24690108
>>24689637
>If anything, literature and entertainment feels so soulless today because is much less transgressive than to say, literature in the 90s or the 80s.
When everything became permissible, there was nothing left to be edgy/transgressive. You NEED a conservative mainstream culture to get cool countercultures.
Anonymous No.24689987
>>24689892
Wasn't that the point of Playboy?
Anonymous No.24689994
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ATT6Ffd88

How to find a qt fat hairy Jewess who reads and didn't go to college to marry and live happily with ever after, /lit/?
Anonymous No.24689999 >>24690020 >>24690055 >>24695468 >>24700195
>>24689442
>The average woman isn't going to have Elon Musk fly them to his space mansion and make love to them.
Didn't he literally already do this to 20+ average and below average women?
Anonymous No.24690020
>>24689999
Well he's giving it an honest go, he's only human after all. For now.
Anonymous No.24690055 >>24690066
>>24689999
If you were the richest man on earth wouldn't you knock up as many women as possible like Genghis Khan?
Anonymous No.24690065 >>24690384
>>24689637
Smut, porn, and fanservice are not transgressive. They are inferior products for inferior people, and the fact that they are so popular today IS bad, which is her point. Smut does not good literature make.

>>24689879
I actually went out of my way to read it and while it looks like that on the surface it's more a regular low fantasy set in not-china and not half-bad desu. Plot is a bit unsubtle but I enjoyed it.
Anonymous No.24690066 >>24690070 >>24690080
>>24690055
You’re a moron. I’d hire the ultimate matchmaking service to find me a wife 100% compatible with me across every possible metric.
Anonymous No.24690070
>>24690066
>has more money than anybody
>wants a wife
lol retard, absolute buffoon

monogamy is slave morality invented to keep proles in their place, it doesn't apply to god-kings
Anonymous No.24690079 >>24690092
I’m a man and I read porn
Smut is better than cinematic porn. More vivid views into the thoughts of the characters. More room to explore kinks that can’t quite be captured on film. You can build hotter scenarios by having a wider cast of characters whereas porno clips usually stick to the bare minimum of the people having sex in that clip. The acting in porno movies is also consistently bad and the dialogue is almost never good.
Things are possible in smut that are unfilmable, or even illegal to film. It’s the pinnacle of pornography.
Anonymous No.24690080 >>24690091
>>24689637
You either didn't watch it or you did and managed to miss the entire point holy. Her point is that using sex to sell books is transforming the industry into low quality hornybait. The sex scene is the entire book objective and build up and everything else is secondary and getting hammered into the bare minimum.
She is not asking for prudish books, she is asking for books to not be porn which is not the same thing as sanitizing.

It is literally happening to videogames too. When games are not a souless DEI fest like Veilguard or Concord they are gacha games.

>>24689822
desu i don't subscribe to the view that you need to be good at something to recognize when it is bad. I'm not a good football player but i know when i see a bad one and i can identify why he is bad.

>>24690066
>I’d hire the ultimate matchmaking service to find me a wife 100% compatible with me across every possible metric
The degenerates have already done that in pic rel
Anonymous No.24690083 >>24696902 >>24697690
>>24689637
>eventually killing things like anime or anything actually fun
"If I can't watch PORN then what's even the point of life??" fags are the most insufferable retards on the planet
Anonymous No.24690091
>>24690080
> i don't subscribe to the view that you need to be good at something to recognize when it is bad
Oh yeah I agree. I mostly agree with her points in the smut video (although I think she has slightly too much radfem anti sex neuroticism). I meant her writing advice in her other videos, I've watched most of them.
Anonymous No.24690092
>>24690079
Me too but it's still bad to have it normalized. Apparently feminist librarians are handing it out to 12 year olds. It's immensely fucked.

Wireheading should be resisted.
Anonymous No.24690108 >>24690118 >>24690139 >>24699885
>>24689967
But we do have a conservative mainstream culture.
21st century western “liberalism”, contrary to its self image, is extremely reactionary and puritanical
>Democracy and freedom are bad, aristocracy by another name and authoritarianism are good
>Moral norms are strict, rigid and unquestionable
>Heterosexual sex is more repressed and policed than it has been since the 1960s
Things like rape smut and lolicon are the epitome of 21st century counterculturalism. What we have today is not actually liberal at all, it’s an extremely rigid civic religion based on a cargo cult of various civil rights movements that calls itself liberal because those movements were liberal, but under the skin the real bones of that civic religion are technocracy.
Anonymous No.24690118 >>24690130
>>24690108
>>Democracy and freedom are bad, aristocracy by another name and authoritarianism are good
>>Moral norms are strict, rigid and unquestionable
>>Heterosexual sex is more repressed and policed than it has been since the 1960s
Those are based though why would I change that
Anonymous No.24690130
>>24690118
So join the Democrat party or your regional equivalent.
Anonymous No.24690139 >>24690156
>>24690108
So what would your truly liberal society look like? How would it differ from say 2020 San Fran
Anonymous No.24690156 >>24693471 >>24700202
>>24690139
You need only look at the things about somewhere like 2020 San Fran that are blatantly illiberal.
There are blatantly obvious examples. Gun control is a textbook one. The way heterosexual sex is policed with ideas like rape culture bad objectification. The rigid guardrails put on speech and thought, you cannot just say the obvious that troons are not women, the very freedom to have an opinion is itself what is attacked. These latter two points could be expanded at length because they appear in various forms constantly. Drunk sex is evil, you can’t question the vaxx, loli hentai is evil, you can’t question immigration policy, looking at yoga pants and getting hard is evil, you can’t question that the problem is the police and not niggers nigging etc. It just goes on and on.
It’d be easier to list the areas in which modern liberalism actually is liberal. And that would be a short list, it’s pretty much just gay sex, abortion and border control, maybe euthanasia in particularly avant garde regions.
Anonymous No.24690298 >>24690323 >>24690418 >>24690756 >>24696717
>>24689416
She's Dutch, Dutch women are 6'1 feet on average. She has to fantasize about 7 feet men (which are common in the Netherlands)
Anonymous No.24690323 >>24690395 >>24690434
>>24690298
In the entire world there’s only about 2-3000 7 foot+ people. Dutch men aren’t really that much taller than Dutch women. They are a bit but it’s not as dramatic as in some other countries.
Strange people
Anonymous No.24690330 >>24694056 >>24695449
>>24689086
I hate this infantalisation of vocabulary
The sex scenes
The rape scenes
The scenes where her anus gaped
Not le teehee spicy please corporation I'm being safe bullshit
Anonymous No.24690382 >>24690399
>>24689838
She still has a whole demeanour of disdain and aggrieved prudence through the video making it clear that the whole topic of smut, fanservice and sex scenes in books for any reason whatsoever make her uncomfortable. I think she was aiming for the slightly-more-intellectual 19th century women compared to the unwashed masses of femcels who write the smut.

> but it should absolutely not be normal or publicly available.
And that's exactly the problem. These prudish type of accusations as the one she was making the video quickly lean themselves for these callings of censorship, book-burning and general anti-artist thug-behaviour. The truth is that good art will always have some transgressive element to it that offends some people. Violence, uncomfortable social critique or just not fitting into a mould. And let's be honest: violence and sex are just fun. Just like rock-and-roll is fun. The idea that women shouldn't leave their fantasy books with romance in them is as stupid as to say men should ban video games and anime. And is hated as a position held by moral busybodies.
Anonymous No.24690384 >>24690428
>>24690065
>Smut, porn, and fanservice are not transgressive.
Lol, they literally are. That's why always ANYTHING sexual always gets a subset of puritans screaming bloody murder. Satanic panic exists for a reason. And see you can't just go around claiming that everything you dislike is shit and pretend people to take you seriously and just don't call you a censorious retard.
Anonymous No.24690395 >>24690400
>>24690323
This is for sure not true as I got 3 separate family members that are 7 ft tall. My nephew is currently having a scholarship in the US for basketball because he is 7'1. That statistic is either wrong (most likely the case) or it doesn't include Dutch people as they are outliers or something like that.
Anonymous No.24690399 >>24690480
>>24690382
>The truth is that good art will always have some transgressive element to it that offends some people.
There is nothing offensive or transgressive about Bach's unaccompanied cello suites within the context they were created in. This is silly dogmatism that is usually not true unless you're mentally ill (I am btw, I am condemning myself with this somewhat).

Lazy, sloppy pattern matching against dogmatic prescriptions without directly engaging with the topic at hand is what actual regressives do.

>And let's be honest: violence and sex are just fun.
Are they? Is gambling fun? What makes them fun? Is meth fun?
Anonymous No.24690400
>>24690395
>can't tell the difference between statistics and personal experience
So this is what having 50 iq looks like.
How would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?
Anonymous No.24690417
>>24689496
She could just look at her own videos to realize why people think they’re gooners?
Anonymous No.24690418
>>24690298
>Dutch women are 6'1 feet on average
>7 feet men (which are common in the Netherlands)
you are mentally ill holy shit lmao
Anonymous No.24690428 >>24690509
>>24690384
Romantasy smut is the female equivalent of anime porn games and visual novels. It's okay for you to like it if that's your thing, but imagine how annoying it would be if porn addicted gooners were constantly talking about their favorite hentai games on social media without any shame whatsoever and would pretend that they are some kind of legitimate art form. That's what booktok chicks are doing with romantasy slop. They talk about this cringy, wish fulfillment porn slop without the slightest hint of shame and it gives normal people second-hand embarassment.
Anonymous No.24690431
>>24689051 (OP)
There is plenty of stuff directed towards women that isn't smut.
Though I wouldn't be surprised if smut makes most of the money for the adult female demographic though.


On a slightly unrelated note, I disagree with her on her extreme dislike of formulas and tropes.
Anonymous No.24690434 >>24690445 >>24690478
>>24690323
Anon... The most common cause for suicide in the Netherlands is being too tall, both for men and for women. A not insignificant portion of the population gets hormone blockers during puberty to limit their height to prevent people from growing too tall. I'm 6'3 and I got bullied for being short. About a third of women I see are taller than me, 80% of men are. I'm restricted to dating expats because I'm too short for Dutch women.
Anonymous No.24690445 >>24690449 >>24690518
>>24690434
Dude, you are so stupid you couldn't even write a 1 paragraph shitpost that doesn't contradict itself. The dutch are suicidal for being too tall and they take hormone blockers to stay shorter, but you were bullied for being short and can't date because of it? Is this the sort of shitposting quality you can get away with on other boards? This is just embarassing.
Anonymous No.24690449
>>24690445
Pseud post, 60 iq
Anonymous No.24690463 >>24690891
>>24689865
ring on finger, anon.
Anonymous No.24690473 >>24690475 >>24690476 >>24692287
YouTube has been pushing BookTube content on me a lot more forcefully than usual, lately.
Anonymous No.24690475
>>24690473
I wish it did that for me, too. Maybe I'd find something worthwhile.
Anonymous No.24690476
>>24690473
juat ignore it, or else it will poison your mind
Anonymous No.24690478 >>24690520
>>24690434
Average male height in the Netherlands is 6’1”
Average female height in the Netherlands is 5’’7”
There is no country in the world where 7’ is common and 6’3” is short.
Anonymous No.24690480 >>24690487 >>24690489 >>24690659 >>24690750 >>24693890
>>24690399
Bringing Bach to a discussion of literature and stories is strange. But if you really want to go for the topic of classical music we could take Wagner for example. Should we ban Der Ring des Nibelungen along with all the music compositions belonging to it such as Der Walkyrie because the play is filled with incest, rape and infidelity? Should we ban Carmen because the main plot is about an adulterous woman who cheats on her proponents? And before you say this would never happen, when the play was actually premiered in the 19th century it received wide criticism for being immoral, scandalous and perverse. It gained fame out of France. We can also put the example of Molière, today universally considered a genius of theatre for France was refused rites after his death by priests because acting was considered immoral, and actors were buried along with prostitues and people who suicided. For being one of the most famous he was spared the indignity and only was buried along with unbaptized infants.

What about Paradise Lost and Lazarillo de Tornes being outright outlawed by the Inquisition, two works now considered classics?

But hey, culture moved, so everyone gets to pretend these things never happened and moral orbiters didn't try to outright outlaw theatre. Now theatre is considered "high art". Funny how that works!
Anonymous No.24690487 >>24690491
>>24690480
Yeah, ban it.
Anonymous No.24690489 >>24690491
>>24690480
> acting was considered immoral, and actors were buried along with prostitues and people who suicided.
Based
Anonymous No.24690491 >>24690495
>>24690487
>>24690489
This. Everything except the Holy Bible should be banned and anyone who can read should be tortured to death on principle.
>b-but how will people read the bible if they can't read at all
To the rack with you.
Anonymous No.24690495
>>24690491
What does that have to do with actors being prostitute-tier?
Anonymous No.24690509
>>24690428
>Caring what nomralfags think
Anonymous No.24690518
>>24690445
They both hold true. Tall women don't date men shorter than them, hence they get suicidal if too tall. Men get bullied if almost half of women in their classroom are taller than them, which happens at around 6'2-6'3 in the Netherlands as median height for ethnic Dutch women is 6'1
Anonymous No.24690519
>>24689051 (OP)
>only
the overwhelming majority of stuff women write for each other isn't actually porn, and a lot of the porn that does exist is quite mild. booktok just has a small list of known smutty books that reach meme status.
Anonymous No.24690520 >>24690533
>>24690478
This includes immigrants which are way shorter dragging averages down a lot. Look at ethnic Dutch statistics.
Anonymous No.24690531 >>24690881 >>24692283
The fact that this shit absolutely fills big box bookstore primarily Barnes & Noble now should alarm all of us.
Anonymous No.24690533 >>24690539
>>24690520
Do you have any of these ethnic Dutch statistics showing that most women are taller than 6’3” and 7’ men are common?
Anonymous No.24690539 >>24690571
>>24690533
Common in the same sense that 6 ft is common in the US. It's what women fantasize about. If women are already 6'1 on average then they have to aim higher.
Anonymous No.24690571
>>24690539
In the United States about 15% percent of the male population is 6 foot or taller.
Even if the entire global population of 7 foot people lived in the Netherlands it would still be less than 0.02%. In any city I’ve been you meet 6 foot men everyday, granted I’ve never been to Asia. I’ve been to the Netherlands and I never met any of these supposedly abundant 7 footers though.
> If women are already 6'1 on average
But they’re not,
Anonymous No.24690659
>>24690480
>Wagner, Bizet, Moliere, Milton
>Equivalent to fairy porn because they both have sex and immorality present
Anonymous No.24690704 >>24690710
Women only read porn.
Men only read retarded chinese comics.
Women only read books about women having emotions.
Men only read books about war and boats.
Women read Rupi Kaur and think they are reading art.
Men read Dostoevsky and think they are reading literature.

It's all so tiresome. I alone have good taste in literature, and I am on all sides besieged by a world designed for you retards.
Anonymous No.24690710 >>24690713 >>24690719
>>24690704
Dostoevsky isn't literature? Why do you redefine words to have no meaning in normal conversation?
Anonymous No.24690712 >>24690713 >>24697310
>Men read Dostoevsky and think they are reading literature
Anonymous No.24690713 >>24690725 >>24698829
>>24690710
>>24690712
Correct, it’s slop
Anonymous No.24690719
>>24690710
Sorry, just a bit of an outburst there. He just seems to be equated with the concept of "great literature" a lot of the time, and as I personally dislike him intensely it sometimes gets under my skin.
Anonymous No.24690725 >>24690727
>>24690713
You must be terribly lonely to need to come here with such bait
Anonymous No.24690727 >>24690747
>>24690725
You must be terribly pleb if you enjoyed such slop
Anonymous No.24690740
>>24689086
how does a person surrounded by books say things like "genuinely kinda good"
Anonymous No.24690747
>>24690727
Using the word "slop" should be a bannable offense, it's killed all nuance from discussion
Anonymous No.24690750 >>24691351
>>24690480
One day people will see through this obvious smokescreen of hiding behind naked marble statues and wagner to defend your gooner trash
Anonymous No.24690756 >>24692376
>>24690298
She is tiny though.
Anonymous No.24690881 >>24690894 >>24690931
>>24690531
I'm alarmed at what this implies for the sex-life (or lack thereof) of the average woman.
Anonymous No.24690891
>>24690463
Why is she reading porn then wtf
Anonymous No.24690894
>>24690881
The average man sucks and doesn't fulfill their contradictory expectations of someone who is both aggressive and caring
Anonymous No.24690931 >>24695009
>>24690881
Ideal man according to erotica
Is fabulously rich but also had a hard life has rough calloused hands
Is aggressive and violent but also is warm and caring
Is 7 foot tall
Is ripped but in the specific way where he’s got narrow hips like Zyzz
Has magical powers and/or is literally some kind of cryptid
Anonymous No.24691351
>>24690750
What excuse? Art is still art even if you dislike it. There's no smokescreen here. On the other hand you will never call for book burnings in public because you know is unpopular. I'm sorry if you got exposed to pearl-clutching being historically wrong.
Anonymous No.24692283 >>24692334
>>24690531
I checked out my local B&N this weekend and was confused why there was this entire romance "alleyway" that was sort of hidden in the back of the store but 15x bigger than any other category for books. Then I noticed the checkout line was full of women buying romance slop. Their selection for basically anything else was disappointing despite being a huge store.
Anonymous No.24692287
>>24690473
That's what you get for still using the stock jewtube. Use another front end like newpipe or freetube to get rid of the algorithmslop
Anonymous No.24692334
>>24692283
yes, that's what happens when businesses stop pretending the primary audience is the dog's tail. the exact content being consumed is still faddish though. it's not like women are magically immune to marketing, and publishers are very good at spamming on trend.
Anonymous No.24692376 >>24692474 >>24692503 >>24693185
>>24690756
Holy shit i think im in love bros..
Anonymous No.24692474 >>24694197
>>24692376
Take a close look at her mouth.
Anonymous No.24692497 >>24693159 >>24693190 >>24693191 >>24693230 >>24693491
NOOOOOOOOO I HATE WOMEN READING STEAMY ROMANCE NOVELS THIS IS A NEW THING AND I HATE IT! THEY'VE NEVER READ THIS KIND OF STUFF BEFORE!
UGH I HATE MY WIFE READING ROMANCE AND BEING SENSUAL AND SEXUAL! AGH! IT CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS NOOOOOO
Anonymous No.24692503 >>24694197
>>24692376
She's taken though
Anonymous No.24693159 >>24693188 >>24693500
>>24692497
Yeah it's time to smack down on femcel goonerslop. They've tried to destroy male hobbies for decades all while they have their own even more decadent media.
Anonymous No.24693185
>>24692376
She mogs her so bad it’s not even funny
Anonymous No.24693188 >>24693192
>>24693159
>t. mister small dick
Anonymous No.24693190
>>24692497
??? It’s degenerate behavior. So what if they’ve been doing this all along? Besides, they love to wrap it up with an intellectual facade.
Anonymous No.24693191
>>24692497
I'm glad we're on the same page
Anonymous No.24693192
>>24693188
That's why no one takes women seriously. How hard could it be to come up with real insults?
Anonymous No.24693230
>>24692497
That's kind of not the main issue is though I agree with you if this was a man flaunting his degeneracy people here would be more inclined to call him ""based"" for it. But this is really how it looks like when you can't relate to it, aka cringe.
Anonymous No.24693471 >>24693646
>>24690156
>>Real liberalism has never been tried!!!!
Anonymous No.24693481
>>24689051 (OP)
Damn... she's really too beautiful bros, what do I do?
Anonymous No.24693491 >>24693499
>>24692497
>Has wife
>She reads and fantasies about getting plowed by other men who are stronger and richer than you
Nothing else needs to be said.
Anonymous No.24693499 >>24693891
>>24693491
And you wouldn't read and fantasize about fucking women who are hotter and sexier than your wife?
Anonymous No.24693500
>>24693159
>even more decadent media.
I've seen enough male powerfantasyslop to know the alternative isn't any better.
Anonymous No.24693646 >>24693893
>>24693471
Real liberalism has been tried, up until a few decades ago it was even global western orthodoxy. What we have now is simply a contraction of liberty and a consolidation of authoritarian power.
The fact that “libertarianism” as a term is even necessary in recent times tells you the truth of this. I’m not even saying liberalism is good, I’m saying the cultural milieu we have is deeply culturally authoritarian and morally rigid - which it blatantly is.
Anonymous No.24693784
>>24689340
Cum buckets?
Now I see…
Anonymous No.24693890
>>24690480
Based gooner.

/lit/ anons seethe at women masturbating to romantasy the same way those very same women seethe about artificial vaginas. Equally pathetic. If you don't like it then go attract a member of the opposite sex and prove that you cannot be fully replaced by a mass manufactured product.
Anonymous No.24693891
>>24693499
That's different.
Anonymous No.24693893 >>24693941
>>24693646
>up until a few decades ago it was even global western orthodoxy.
Anon the Cold War was still going "a few decades ago".
Anonymous No.24693941
>>24693893
Key word: western
Anonymous No.24694036 >>24694109 >>24694243
women's romantasy bullshit smut is absolutely the end of western civilization. There will be no other 'literature' in a few years only endless tiktoks of ultragiga werewolf pirate chad hate fucking becky.

There is no other plot. There are no more characters. everyday life is romantasy.
Anonymous No.24694039
>>24689120
The most memorable thing I have ever read was the child sex orgy in Stephen King's "It." And "Lolita." You're just an incel.
Anonymous No.24694056
>>24690330
women language is intolerable. they're like eskimos having hundreds of words for snow, everything they say is about sex.
Anonymous No.24694092 >>24694296
I read and masturbate to romantasy pretty often. I have a high romantasy power level. No one claims it is high literature, you made that up to justify being mad about it. You can probably find one or two people on the internet like that but it's not seen that way by most consumers
Anonymous No.24694109 >>24694243
>>24694036
Romantasy is wish fulfilment slop but it doesn’t mirror real life, there’s also a spectrum of types of male leads. Some are quite romantic and positive. This book gets memed on a lot but the Minotaur LI is actually a total sweetheart. Granted he is muscular as fuck, has a giant cock that deforms her stomach, cums buckets and is a millionaire from selling his stud bull jizz, but there is a total dearth of verbal abuse, rapey shit and edgy brooding.
It’s quite comparable to hentai VNs, the spectrum of content is as broad as the spectrum of human perversion, but it never resembles real life - if it real life resembled wish fulfilment then this genre of fiction would not exist.
Anonymous No.24694122 >>24695423
You, a Chud; writes nothing, reads little.
Me, an intellectual: Writing an epic KU erotic romance novel about an 18 year old overachieving and repressed Asian-American libtard virgin going to college and having a hot steamy taboo romance with her silver fox white English Lit professor (my self insert)
Anonymous No.24694197 >>24697982
>>24692474
?
>>24692503
Soccer has goalies and i still score.
Anonymous No.24694243 >>24694328 >>24694345 >>24694409 >>24697199 >>24699649 >>24702649 >>24702792
>>24689051 (OP)
>>24689086
>>24689416
>>24689496
>>24694036
>>24694109
You know, I think those women who read that romantic/fantasy smut where they get fucked by massive gargoyles and other monsters are in pretty much the same headspace as that guy on r*ddit who thought he had a scat fetish and really wanted to try it out. Just as the moment when a massive turd from a prostitute hit that guy's open mouth, the fantasy shattered instantly, I imagine that if much of these women ever actually found themselves with a ten inch vampire-dragon rod inserted into every hole, the illusion would collapse in the same way.

Because that's the thing: fantasy and reality aren't the same terrain. People can be aroused by extreme or bizarre scenarios in imagination precisely because imagination suspends consequences. There's no pain, no disgust, no physical impossibility when it's all in your head. But the moment you drag those fantasies into real life, the visceral reality kicks in, awkward, uncomfortable, absurd, sometimes outright revolting. What seemed intoxicating in the mind often turns out grotesque in the flesh. The scat example is an extreme case, but the same applies across the spectrum of monster smut, tentacle kinks, or whatever else: most people don't actually want the physical reality of their fantasies.

The deeper point here is that loneliness, isolation and frustration warp desire. It's not that people are inherently depraved; it's that when they're cut off from genuine intimacy, their imagination starts filling the void in ever more exaggerated ways. They convince themselves that only the strangest or most transgressive scenario could satisfy them, when really what they're craving is the opposite of exotic, a hug, a kiss, the warmth of being recognized and wanted. Sexuality isn't just raw instinct; it's deeply tied to psychology, unmet needs and escapism. And when those needs are neglected, fantasy becomes a distorted mirror of longing.

I think the majority of people are relatively "vanilla" and enjoy normal, regular sexual activities. It's just that loneliness fucks with their brains so badly that they start mistaking shadows for substance. Beneath the gargoyles and dragons and absurdly oversized appendages, or the endless stream of pornography men consume with its MILF, interracial, incest and other weird categories, what they're really searching for is closeness, tenderness and the simple comfort of being held.
Anonymous No.24694286 >>24694438
>>24689416
>>24689496
Name?
Anonymous No.24694296 >>24694425
>>24694092
Imo the really sexual stuff is hot from a male perspective because it is often in a first person female POV, and I'd rather see the woman enjoy sex than the man grunting away, you know? And yeah, it's basically the worst "literature" you can think of, and I just wish people were open about it being clearly pornographic—it is fucking hot, regardless.
Anonymous No.24694328
>>24694243
Yep. Pretty much this.
Know yourself.
Anonymous No.24694345
>>24694243
I think the monster shit phenomenon is distinct from furry fetishes and the like. Three things are happening here that are important
1) Kindle guidelines can be arbitrarily punishing for extreme erotic fetishes and fantastical scenarios provide a large amount of leeway.
2) The fantastical scenarios push it squarely into the realm of unreal fantasy and out of even simulated reality, this makes it psychologically more comfortable to explore extreme kinks for a larger audience. Self insert MC raped by a vampire in Narnia is somewhat more marketable than getting raped in a realistic present day scenario.
3. It’s a narrative excuse for the male love interest to have fantastical, hypermasculine attributes. Being superhumanly ripped, having ThePitt sized genitals, having strange and impossible skin textures, having an impossible deep and rumbly voice that literally reverberates the room with bass.
Then of course the obvious that it’s just more taboo because it’s a few shades closer to straight up beast.
Anonymous No.24694409 >>24695122
>>24694243
This is exactly what Morning Glory Milking Farm is about.
The megacock Minotaur shit is incidental to the actual core fantasy of the book. Which is about a broke anxious millennial femcel who finds a rich Chad that makes her feel seen, safe, secure, loved and pays her student loans.
Anonymous No.24694425
>>24694296
I prefer third person omniscient but one of the marks of good erotica is it vividly describes how the woman feels.
If the male LI grunts it’s not about him grunting, it’s about how that makes the female lead’s pussy tingle.
Anonymous No.24694434 >>24694437 >>24695379
Reminder: If your woman reads smut, understand that she's incentivized by her girlfriends and society to abandon everything and go find her happiness.
Anonymous No.24694437 >>24694458
>>24694434
That’s true even if she doesn’t read smut.
Anonymous No.24694438 >>24694832 >>24695129 >>24696295 >>24697430
>>24694286
Anonymous No.24694458 >>24694629 >>24695130 >>24695416
>>24694437
More true if she's constantly complaining about your hobbies while justifying hers as more productive and intelligent. The point is, an intelligent woman is more likely to be dissatisfied with you, turning to smut for comfort while telling you she has a headache as an excuse to deny you sex.
Anonymous No.24694463
>>24689892
>you will just never see any man pretend porn is high art and that they cultured for engaging with it
I can't count the number of online people I know who get off to their own elitist porn preferences
Anonymous No.24694629 >>24694670
>>24694458
Skill issue.
Just be more sexy.
Anonymous No.24694670 >>24694681 >>24694839
>>24694629
Skill issue. Just be more understanding, plus there will always be someone more sexy.
Anonymous No.24694681 >>24694912
>>24694670
That’s true even if you a sexy muscular billionaire vampire with a giant cock just like in the smut. What good is it doing you to be this blackpilled?
Anonymous No.24694832 >>24694843
>>24694438
I'm really not a violent guy or extremely misogynistic but I want to fucking punch her.
Anonymous No.24694839
>>24694670
>Just be more understanding
What do you mean?
Anonymous No.24694843
>>24694832
Because she’s a dutchoid or because she likes big juicy knots?
Anonymous No.24694862
>>24689051 (OP)
>Am a straight male
>Prefer smut to porn, although I don't engage in either most of the time.
Uhh...
Anonymous No.24694870
>>24689051 (OP)
Book tuber girls are cute
Anonymous No.24694912
>>24694681
It allows me to approach relationships in the same way that women do.
Anonymous No.24695009 >>24695076
>>24690931
>Has magical powers and/or is literally some kind of cryptid
Does autism cover this
Anonymous No.24695039
>>24689340
Women generally like dim men. Not exactly a jackpot. But I forget that women lack foresight.
Anonymous No.24695047 >>24695098
>>24689086
>Spicy
Why can't they just call them sex scenes?
Anonymous No.24695076
>>24695009
The male lead in 50 shades of Grey is pretty spergy, Twilight also.
Anonymous No.24695084
>>24689637
>Notice she can't even pronounce the word "porn" verbally, which is strange.
That's because of the algorithm fucking over any video dealing with porn, sex, suicide among many other subjects
Anonymous No.24695098 >>24695242
>>24695047
women language. everything must be stated indirectly and obscured by orwellian vocabulary.
>vibe
>cheat
>ick
>mansplaining
>cis
>gatekeeping
>gaslighting
>ex
>hookup
>situationship
>dating
etc

once you understand women have NOTHING TO SAY you can start ignoring them utterly.
Anonymous No.24695122
>>24694409
>broke anxious millennial femcel who finds a rich Chad that makes her feel seen, safe, secure, loved and pays her student loans.
can one do this IRL
Anonymous No.24695129
>>24694438
married woman btw do you think she RPs with her man
Anonymous No.24695130 >>24695669
>>24694458
most male hobbies are lame
Anonymous No.24695242 >>24695249 >>24695485
>>24695098
In fact, it's even worse than this. They don't even want to talk at all, whoch is why speaking to women is usually a nightmare barrage of shit tests and trivialities. All they really want is to feel good in your presence, basking in your maleness like some kind of lizard in the sun, which means speaking as little as possible. Utterly insufferable.
Anonymous No.24695249 >>24695251
>>24695242
I don't want a woman to talk
Anonymous No.24695251 >>24695259
>>24695249
Of course, imagine desiring intellectual conversation from a fellow citizen in a democratoc republic. Absolutely ridiculous!
Anonymous No.24695259 >>24695279
>>24695251
>intellectual conversation
it isn't genuine like he says, it's all about giving attention to her, affirming her victimhood, etc
Anonymous No.24695279 >>24695289
>>24695259
Anonymous No.24695289 >>24695345
>>24695279
He's literally me
Anonymous No.24695345
>>24695289
Its over
Anonymous No.24695379
>>24694434
Anonymous No.24695416
>>24694458
What do you think your dick is for?
Anonymous No.24695423
>>24694122
Pretty much every English lit professor includes this side plot in his debut novel.
Anonymous No.24695446
pickme
Anonymous No.24695449
>>24690330
Is it proper to say "scene"?
Anonymous No.24695468
>>24689999
most of his babies are through IVF
Anonymous No.24695485 >>24695781
>>24695242
being in a woman-dense environment was one of the most mentally tiring things for me. it's mostly the fact that they're chronic ass kissers. even their sincerity is planned, never a personal trait but a case-specific method
Anonymous No.24695669 >>24695815
>>24695130
Most men choose hobbies that are internally validating, not externally. Women wouldn't get it as they do almost everything for attention and social approval.
Anonymous No.24695781
>>24695485
I handled a similar situation by treating them as beneath me. Talk over them, don’t let them finish, speak for them with other people and the most important part, ignore their presence for long periods of time (days) unless you need something.
Ironically, aside for a couple, they started to treat me much better and made interactions easier compared to when I assumed they were sentient beings.
Anonymous No.24695815 >>24695831
>>24695669
>Most men choose hobbies that are internally validating, not externally
yeah like uhh... gaming
Anonymous No.24695831 >>24696680
>>24695815
Yes? I still remember going to the local internet cafe to play Counterstrike 1.6 with my middleschool classmates 15 years ago. Or calling friends over to play Mortal Kombat 4 to do fatalities on each other. Or spamming that annoying X attack in Tekken 3.

All of that was fun. None of us played videogames cause we thought it made us look cool, we just genuinely enjoyed it.
Anonymous No.24696258 >>24696312 >>24697354
>>24689051 (OP)
>ten seconds or so into the video
>mentions "storytelling fundamentals"
Stopped watching.
Anonymous No.24696295
>>24694438
When is frankenstein (the monster, who by rights deserve a name, you cruel people) gonna get a piece?
Anonymous No.24696312
>>24696258
What's wrong with that?
Anonymous No.24696346
>>24689865
She's married and has kids
Anonymous No.24696433 >>24696718
Yes, they know: https://youtu.be/ejklu1OvWFs
Anonymous No.24696680 >>24696832
>>24695831
>with my middleschool classmates 15 years ago
Yeah you don't do it when you're 34 like guys do these days while getting no validation from it
Anonymous No.24696717 >>24696722
>>24690298
Oh, she's northern european. It's all starting to come together...
Anonymous No.24696718
>>24696433
They laugh hysterically yet are only laughing at themselves
Anonymous No.24696722
>>24696717
The bogdwelling milk clots known as the Dutch are not Northern European. They are worms with chronic lisps that fertilise their flower beds with their own composted bodies. The second most ridiculous language in Europe after Flemish.
Anonymous No.24696832 >>24697100
>>24696680
I still play games. I am not really sure what you're even trying to say here.
Anonymous No.24696868 >>24697118 >>24697139
>>24689637
Your point would have a bit more weight if it didn't rely on the asinine assumption that copy-pasted porn plots are somehow transgressive or provocative in any way.
Anonymous No.24696902
>>24690083
Imagine being on 4Chan and not jacking it to porn. lmao.
Anonymous No.24697100 >>24697113
>>24696832
The point that anon is making is that video games are eugenic and it’s a good way to remove yourself from the genepool.
Anonymous No.24697113 >>24697117
>>24697100
aha
Anonymous No.24697117 >>24697125
>>24697113
And remind me how most consumers reproducing is going these days
Anonymous No.24697118
>>24696868
Many replies on this thread prove the point. The video is an outlet not only for censorship advocates, but for actual deranged shitheads who only hate anything women and would support censorship for them even if gets them fucked in the process.
Anonymous No.24697125 >>24697158 >>24698076
>>24697117
Birthrates have been going down since the 60's. I doubt there's any stronger correlation between them than you could find with movies, certain genres of music or reading books.
Anonymous No.24697139
>>24696868
KU erotica unironically does reflect the repressed id of the modern woman.
Monster men, straight up abuse and rape, the eroticisation of wealth itself, yearning for singular exclusive transcendent love. Most taboo of them all is bareback breeding.
There’s more insight to be gotten on the modern soul between the lines of trash smut than there is in the slop being held up as literary fiction.
Anonymous No.24697158 >>24697168 >>24697193
>>24697125
Yeah, generally passive consumption as a hobby is bad and the reliance of modern people on it compounds the atomisation that fosters this reliance. Video games being the absolute pinnacle of this.
As zoomers increasingly enter adulthood this is visible. About 67% of adults under the age of 29 play video games weekly, that 67% are the sexual underclass.
Anonymous No.24697168 >>24697202
>>24697158
The main problems are over-socialization and mass social-media consumption. I highly doubt videogames represent even a drop in the bucket of the problems zoomers face.
Anonymous No.24697193 >>24697208
>>24697158
>UPS! YOUR ESCAPISM THAT LETS YOU ESCAPE FROM THE HORROR OF MODERN LIFE IS ACTUALLY AT FAULT
Man, pseuds pretending to be smart are the perfect slaves.
Anonymous No.24697199
>>24694243
Damn...
Anonymous No.24697202 >>24697251
>>24697168
You’re going to need to define oversocialisation as you understand it because by the standard definition cultures that do reproduce a lot like Muslims and traditionalist Christians would be even more oversocialised than secular westerners,
>mass social-media consumption.
That’s just coming back to the same root problem, reliance on passive media consumption and disengagement from real life. Why is social media bad if video games are fine?
Anonymous No.24697208 >>24697230 >>24697493 >>24697602
>>24697193
Alright you could also escape from reality by doing drugs. Many even combine them by smoking marijuana and playing video games as complementary hobbies.
If you could escape reality 100% and never be troubled by real life again by plugging yourself into the matrix, would you do it?
Anonymous No.24697230 >>24697256
>>24697208
You're retarded. Fixing society would requiere start giving politicians and corporations why they deserve. But you don't want that, you want censorship for the bottom-feeder as the powerful men gets to rape little children at their leisure in lone islands. You're not nearly as intelligent you think you're and you have 100% on some sort of propaganda.
Anonymous No.24697251 >>24697284
>>24697202
My personal take on over-socialization is someone that is constantly exposed to outside stimuli and human contact to the point they lose their capability for an internal monologue. I think it has the same psychological effect as living in an extremely over-populated city, but for everyone at all times regardless of their living situation.
>Why is social media bad if video games are fine?
I think social media creates a false perception of reality whereas videogames are just entertainment. Obviously videogames can be addictive and become bad for you, but inherently they're not as damaging as social media.
Anonymous No.24697256 >>24697331
>>24697230
Are you saying you need to play video games because society is run by pedophiles?
Not sure what the point being made is here or how grown men playing video games is supposed to be moving us towards this envisaged revolutionary solution.
Anonymous No.24697284 >>24697301
>>24697251
All simulacra create a false perception of reality. This is even more visible with movies than with video games. People have a strong tendency to expect fictional tropes in real life.
Entertainment today is not merely entertainment, it is narrative. And video games are especially artificial as they aren’t just presenting unreal narratives, they simulate the brains own reward mechanisms to train users towards gaming rather than for living. You see this a lot even outside video games now, with apps and social medias being designed on a gamified basis to keep users coming back for that dopamine hit.
This is part of the problem the 21st century embodies. Social media and video games are not life, they are fake, and reliance on them leads to fake unrealised lives.
Anonymous No.24697301 >>24697359
>>24697284
They can all be negative, but it's a spectrum. They are not all as bad as one another.
I can attest to this because I grew up during a time when most young boys played videogames, yet we still went outside to socialize, to talk in person, to hit on girls and we had active lifestyles. I think that's because none of us grew up with phones or social media. Our internet was low speed and we definitely didn't have it on our phones.
Anonymous No.24697304
>>24689637
>You misspelled a word, so therefore your whole argument is wrong.

You're a woman, and you're putting words into her mouth. She has not once talked about anything male-related, and you clearly don't know your history about Pulp because there were sexy women in it, but the sex in it was little better than cutting to black, BECAUSE the wider world looked down upon sex in lit. (Unless it was an actual pure porn book, which are different from pulp)

The issuse is clear. When men want to read, it's noticeable not porn because we can get porn online. Meanwhile, a large chunk of women's "Lit" is to get their rocks off, and it's ruining it for everyone else.
Anonymous No.24697310 >>24698829
>>24690712
This. Idiots need to read only Dostoevsky for their pretentious college class and suddenly think they understand all of humanity.
Anonymous No.24697331 >>24697345 >>24697396
>>24697256
Escapism as a whole is an act of non-conformity. And non-conformity is inherent to ALL forms of art. It represents a tool for the dispossessed of society to experiment something different from what they currently have. This doesn't only apply to porn, but also to any sort of literature or art that represents ANYTHING that isn't the current status quo.

The only reason someone wouldn't like this is because they think art should be a propaganda tool. Which is the position of puritans. You're obviously some form of lobotomized fool by some brand of political bullshit. Which one doesn't matter.
Anonymous No.24697345
>>24697331
Also, correction: there's not porn involved here. We're talking about erotica as an element in literature which is completely and 100% fictional and not the same as recorded porn. Nobody is being filmed and there are no actors. A bigger reason to think this is a puritanical argument and nothing else.
Anonymous No.24697354
>>24696258
It's the sort of thing you hear spiritual but not religious people to say.
Expect mentions of "sovl" or "western" alongside it, with some mild "it's over"
Anonymous No.24697359 >>24697371
>>24697301
Yeah and young boys are not grown men. I’m an older zoomer and I see this a lot, men my age that are hardcore addicted to video games and older millennials or Gen X that are still playing video games into their 30s, 40s and even 50s. We ought to be learning from the failed men of previous generations as a cautionary tale, and for the ones I meet that never married or had children lifelong video game playing is a recurring theme that their more successful contemporaries often lack. If you pay attention you can see the fruit of this.
When I look at my peers I can see social media fucking them up, that’s true. But I can also see video games fucking them up. Neither are things you really need, and life is better when you can learn to live without them.
Anonymous No.24697371 >>24697425
>>24697359
But other than videogames, you think zoomers fit the description I provided before? Do they get together to play physical sports? Do they meet-up several times per week to hang out? Are they direct with girls and are they more often than not in relationships? Cause that's what it was like for us.

My simple point is that videogames did not cause us to be spergy introverts, like what is happening with zoomers. That's why I think that even playing videogames 10 hours a day is more likely a symptom rather than the source of the problem.
>Neither are things you really need
I know nothing about you, but I'll assume you also do or consume things you don't really need. That's not a good argument.
Anonymous No.24697396 >>24697477 >>24697610 >>24697632
>>24697331
So why does our society so aggressively push escapism? Video games, movies, social media, spectator sports, pop music, even consumption itself, our very economy is a kaleidoscope of endless escapism. Because it’s not some kind of subversive liberation, it’s a sedative. If you like it then by all means, but call a spade a spade rather than pretending there’s something much greater going on here.
I’ll also add that personally I’m extremely cynical about politics. I don’t bother with culture war nonsense or look to legislative solutions as relevant tools for making my life better. The preoccupation some people have with ideology and partisan politics is just yet another platform for escapism, and a particularly corrosive one. The one and only question I’m concerned with is how to make my life better.
You also seem to be projecting a lot onto what I’m saying. So I’ll clarify something, my interest in this thread is that I write erotica, and as such also read a lot of it. I don’t see porn as being any better or any worse than the other forms of entertainment.
Anonymous No.24697425 >>24697432
>>24697371
Some of them do. Some of them don’t. Some of them mix all of the above to varying shades. And generally video games are competitive with success in any of these.
I’ll also add that many millennials are spergy introverts. All the ills that are increasingly magnified with time can be identified in earlier generations. Rampant social media, video games addictions, coomerism, hyper-politicised subcultures, none of it began with zoomers, the root of these probably didn’t even begin in living generations. The question isn’t just what started it, it’s how to get out of it.
As I said from the jump, video games aren’t the cause of atomisation, but they definitely compound it.
>I know nothing about you, but I'll assume you also do or consume things you don't really need.
Of course. But that’s not the point I made, which is asking what’s adding to life and what’s subtracting from it. What I’d ask is what argument can be made against social media that wouldn’t equally apply to video games.
Anonymous No.24697430
>>24694438
Thank you anon :)
Anonymous No.24697432 >>24697456
>>24697425
>Some of them do. Some of them don’t.
Ok, but at the same rate or what? Do you think rates of sperginess, lack of sex, lack of social interactions etc. have been consistent in the last 30-40 years?
>What I’d ask is what argument can be made against social media that wouldn’t equally apply to video games
What argument can be made against social media and video games that wouldn't equally apply to books?
Anonymous No.24697456 >>24697466
>>24697432
Are present day millennials doing these at the same rate today? Atomisation does not discriminate on age. Surely it’s worse to have been born into it than to have grown into it, but it’s been growing around everyone since boomer times. The same man today is not the same man he was 20 years ago, and the question of how to solve these problems remains relevant even for him.
>What argument can be made against social media and video games that wouldn't equally apply to books?
Books are not engineered by industry scientists to hijack your brains reward pathways and foster addiction. But many of the same arguments about escapism could be made, that is true.
Anonymous No.24697466 >>24697490 >>24697503
>>24697456
>but it’s been growing around everyone since boomer times
As a result of?
>Books are not engineered by industry scientists to hijack your brains reward pathways and foster addiction.
Did you forget what the topic of the thread you're in is?
Anonymous No.24697477 >>24697575
>>24697396
Hm, I like this anon. So I ask, as zoomer to zoomer. What does agency look like to you? How would you effectively improve your life for the better? I tell plenty of people a good understanding in math and science (im not a materialist) seems to be a good start.
Anonymous No.24697490 >>24697624
>>24697466
I think this anon has credibility. Video games are not the source of the many issues in society, however they do not help either, they are a distraction and people do need incentive to change society or at least their lives, it gets distorted or delayed when you play video games that give a sense of agency and 'win/lose'. Obviously you cant take this too far and im not shaming people for wanting to play video games, but they are symptomatic. Although I do have a question what could be considered the biggest 'distraction' and if you can even objectively measure it.
Anonymous No.24697493
>>24697208
>If you could escape reality 100% and never be troubled by real life again by plugging yourself into the matrix, would you do it?

Without a single doubt the majority of millenials and zoomers would do this.
Anonymous No.24697503 >>24697756
>>24697466
That’s a big question, and there’s a lot of possible speculative answers. But the root of it is likely industrialisation itself, any other possible answers are downstream of this. Which is worrying because that’s not something that can simply be fixed, only wrestled with and navigated. Which is the importance of the question, what helps and what’s counterproductive.
>Did you forget what the topic of the thread you're in is?
Then you’re talking about a specific variety of books and asking a different question, one that’s about porn. The question then is what makes video games and social media better than simply masturbating.
Anonymous No.24697575 >>24697687
>>24697477
There’s a lot of different ways agency can be manifested but I suppose in the broadest sense it’s about being able to make your own choices and pursue what you want. This is something you can see acted out in erotica, part of the fantasy is often agency. Morning Glory Milking Farm is a textbook example, the blank self-insert FMC exists in a grey boring world of financial stress, parental pressure and a a narrow range of choices that she does not want. Through the sexy monster world she gains agency, by gaining options she wants, acquiring independence from her financial/social constraints, and ultimately achieving empowerment and self-realisation through her relationship with a rich hypermasculine Minotaur. It’s like Harry Potter, the fantasy is not as simple as magic, the fantasy is emancipation through another world of magic. You see it illustrated again in dark erotica, where submission and loss-of-control is sexy because it is illustrated as chosen, and usually through it power is obtained. Even when being submissive is itself an action.
>How would you effectively improve your life for the better?
Depends on the circumstance. But usually the most important question is financial. Beyond that it’s more philosophical, how do you get what you want, and what is it you want. Which is another part of the classic fantasy, what a lot of people want is love and security.
Anonymous No.24697602
>>24697208
>Art and entertainment are not Truth and therefore must be bad
Fuck off Plato
Anonymous No.24697610 >>24697627
>>24697396
>So why does our society so aggressively push escapism?
It doesn't. Every form of entertainment from movies, to videogames has been subject to censorship and mass sanitization. Just a few days ago there was a mass campaign for censorship that affected thousands of games:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-visa-backlash-adult-games-removed-online-stores-steam-itchio-ntwnfb

Censorship is never tolerable.
Anonymous No.24697624 >>24697677
>>24697490
>Although I do have a question what could be considered the biggest 'distraction' and if you can even objectively measure it.
Narcotics that can cause physiological addiction are stronger than options without the physiological element.

Other than that, the forms of escapism are not highly relevant. Leave only theater available and the same dissatisfied people will spend most of their time on theater. We know for a fact that as Latin Empire was going down the shitter in the XII century, a massive portion of Constantinople's population was living and breathing chariot races and accompanied gambling. Higher diversity of escapism forms is even somewhat better, as it prevents people getting that much dumber from the repetitive nature of a single form of escapism. All the mfs who complain about muh tiktok-brained zoomers forget all the cretins raised by TV.
Anonymous No.24697627 >>24697673
>>24697610
I agree, censorship is bad. But pushing censorship and pushing escapism are not antithetical. It’s just another grab to control the narrative and messaging of that escapism, the escapism itself remains.
Anonymous No.24697632 >>24697646
>>24697396
>So why does our society so aggressively push escapism?
It doesn't push any of those. It craves escapism, creating tremenous demand. Kikes zero in on this demand to make themselves rich by satisfying it.
Anonymous No.24697646
>>24697632
You could say the same thing about any consumer good. But the same people making the product are going to push that product.
Anonymous No.24697673 >>24697691
>>24697627
They literally are. For escapism to exist there must be liberty for freedom of expression and creation. For censorship to exist you must restrict said freedom. They're at odds with each other.
Anonymous No.24697674
>>24689395
>It has about as much to do with reproduction as gooning to anime characters.
So, a lot then? Sexual attraction is rooted in positive reproduction strategies, otherwise it wouldn't survive the natural selection process. Anime characters often exaggerate traits that indicate fertility, something that is useful for reproduction. The only problem is that our sexual drives developed prior to the existence of fiction and fantasies, so now we get a hodgepodge of core reproductive drives and hyper exaggerated caricatures that increasingly lose their direct connection to those reproduction strategies.
Anonymous No.24697677
>>24697624
Good point.
Anonymous No.24697687 >>24697737
>>24697575
I agree with you. I would say more about women, sex and agency but its 4chinz after all. What do you want? How would you gain it and why?
Anonymous No.24697690 >>24697710
>>24690083
Objecting to someone else watching porn is literally the censorship impulse. The ultimate good is liberty for all, so if you have any sense at all you'll eschew the notion of trying to censor porn.
Anonymous No.24697691 >>24697813
>>24697673
Yet China has tremendous censorship and minimal artistic freedom, yet still churns out a torrent of escapist media. Freedom of expression isn’t a necessary predicate of escapism.
Even in the recent past the USA did heavily censor movies and comic books, they were still escapist.
Anonymous No.24697710 >>24697713 >>24697808
>>24697690
What about child porn?
Anonymous No.24697713 >>24697721
>>24697710
NTA but to clarify, this is /lit/. No children are harmed when some roastie writes about daddy spanking her.
Anonymous No.24697721 >>24697729
>>24697713
No children are harmed by reproducing videos and images that already exist either.
Anonymous No.24697729
>>24697721
and that's why only child porn production needs to be criminalized, not possession. it is literally in the interest of child safety to let pedos watch the stuff as we know that porn access lowers the risk of actual sex crimes.
Anonymous No.24697737 >>24697745 >>24697818
>>24697687
I want a comfy house in the country with a cute wife who is nice. I want to have a career I am good at that allows me to be respected within its world and empowers me to engage with what interests me. The goal is simple, but the road is complex. I have to make money, i have to make myself attractive, I have to work hard, I have to learn. What I want in the broadest sense is simply love and security, those are not easy to come by.
What do you want? How would you gain it and why?
Anonymous No.24697745 >>24697755
>>24697737
Lmao see you in the matrix bro
Anonymous No.24697755
>>24697745
And it should go without saying, that I want the real thing.
Anonymous No.24697756 >>24697792
>>24697503
>But the root of it is likely industrialisation itself
So then we agree that any hypothetical videogame addiction is just a symptom. Not sure why you turned this into an argument then.
>Then you’re talking about a specific variety of books
As opposed to what? You think every single videogame ever made is some gacha designed to squeeze as much money out of you as possible? Even some lame flash game from 2008?
Anonymous No.24697792 >>24697809
>>24697756
As I said near the start of this conversation
> Yeah, generally passive consumption as a hobby is bad and the reliance of modern people on it compounds the atomisation that fosters this reliance.
Consider the example of the homeless crackhead. Is he homeless because he takes crack or does he take crack because he’s homeless? Whichever the cause is one thing compounds the other, and makes any solution to the root problem more unreachable.
> As opposed to what?
As opposed to the books you don’t coom to. You asked how video games or social media are worse than books and I answered, the former are designed to be addictive and reroute your brain in maladaptive ways. Your counter is so does erotica. I accepted the point, then asked how video games are any better then than porn. So what’s the answer?
Anonymous No.24697808 >>24697815
>>24697710
If you can't tell the difference between the censorship of adult expression and the criminality of direct harming of a child, you instantly disqualify yourself from intelligent conversation.
Anonymous No.24697809 >>24697875
>>24697792
>Consider the example of the homeless crackhead. Is he homeless because he takes crack or does he take crack because he’s homeless?
In the overwhelming majority of cases the cause is mental illness, so both drug addiction and being homeless are a symptom of that. Even if they gave up crack, it's unlikely they could ever hold a job.
>I accepted the point, then asked how video games are any better then than porn. So what’s the answer?
I don't believe you've conceded that there are videogames that are not bad yet. Your argument is that ALL videogames are bad whereas only SOME books are.
Anonymous No.24697813 >>24697836
>>24697691
Most of what China produces is state-sponsored propaganda. Almost nobody watches Chinese movies aside from the Chinese themselves, that's why they're mogged by Japan in artistic production despite being a country with a tiny fraction of China's actual population. Likewise nobody cares about propaganda movies from the past in America in comparison to productions with actual liberty to show what they want to show. If you find escapism so evil, why don't you move yourself to North-Korea and tell us the wonders of productivity and anti-escapist societies?
Anonymous No.24697815
>>24697808
What children are harmed by circulating videos and pictures that already exist?
What if the child consents?
Anonymous No.24697818
>>24697737
Thats good anon, a noble goal indeed. Very wholesome and i hope you achieve it simply because. :)
>what do you want?
Wisdom i.e. Self proximation.
>How?
Communing with the One. Its a much involved process but the simple desire of wisdom is the beginning.
>why?
Same reason as yours. Love and security in a way.
Anonymous No.24697825
>>24689120
>I skip sex scenes in books and TV shows
Same. Its almost always used by people who are bad writers and cant come up with a story. They throw it in to add drama and distract the viewer/reader.
Anonymous No.24697836
>>24697813
Except Japan also applies some degrees of censorship, especially on the internet. You cannot even have uncensored porn in Japan.
Likewise how exactly is Raid: Shadow Legends or the torrent of Gâcha slop they produce not escapism? And how is propaganda distinct from escapism? Modern day Marvel movies are deeply escapist, they’re also often loaded with woke propaganda.
> Likewise nobody cares about propaganda movies from the past in America in comparison to productions with actual liberty to show what they want to show
Some of the most popular American movies ever were made in the Hayes code era and are still studied today, like the Wizard of Oz or Gone with the Wind. How exactly is the Wizard of Oz not pure escapism?
You’re simply not answering the central point. If the point of escapist media is escape from reality, then how is censorship or propaganda incompatible with that? You could have escapist media with absolutely zero sex, violence or politically controversial content. You could have escapist media with blatant ideological messaging. You insist on this dichotomy without ever justifying it.
Anonymous No.24697875 >>24697890
>>24697809
Probably true, the fact remains, any effort to address the route problem is frustrated by the maladaptive coping tools adopted downstream of it. To actually address the problem those have to go, painful as it may be.
> I don't believe you've conceded that there are videogames that are not bad yet. Your argument is that ALL videogames are bad whereas only SOME books are.
That’s not the argument I made.
If the premise is that passive consumption as a hobby is bad, then books as escapism are a vice too, the question is how bad the vice is. Even for the smuttiest, most unreal, purely masturbatory books in the world - I would still argue you’d be hard pressed to find a video game that isn’t worse. Porn is up front about what it is and the objective is to get your nut and go. Video games are something more than that, it’s an advanced art of illusion that makes doing nothing feel like doing something, and it’s heavily marketed to children with the objective of creating lifelong addicts.
Anonymous No.24697890 >>24697906
>>24697875
>the question is how bad the vice is.
What argument can be made against social media and video games that wouldn't equally apply to books?
Anonymous No.24697906 >>24697926
>>24697890
You already asked this question several posts ago, and got an answer, the deliberate design to exploit reward pathways and foster addiction. Which is what brought us to this comparison of smut and video games. To which you still haven’t answered my question. How exactly is playing video games any better than gooning for equal periods of time?
Anonymous No.24697926 >>24697929
>>24697906
>the deliberate design to exploit reward pathways and foster addiction
All videogames do this? Even indie flash games from 2008? You never answered this question.
Anonymous No.24697929 >>24697930
>>24697926
Yes, even pong. They’re just not as sophisticated or effective as their modern descendants.
Anonymous No.24697930 >>24697936
>>24697929
Can you go clarify this further? It seems like a baseless assertion.
Anonymous No.24697936 >>24697939
>>24697930
The objective of a video game, even in its crudest and most primitive form, is to translate your activity into a dopamine hit. This is the basic mechanism of the technology and always has been, it’s just been perfected to varying degrees of success. The reason flash games from 2008 or pong aren’t as dangerous as something like League of Legends is simply that their engineering isn’t as sophisticated.
Anonymous No.24697939 >>24697963
>>24697936
>The objective of a video game, even in its crudest and most primitive form, is to translate your activity into a dopamine hit
So....they're designed to be fun? Is everything fun then bad?
Anonymous No.24697946
>>24689120
This is like not being able to appreciate some spanish peppers in a dish, because you ruined your tastebuds by eating ghostpeppers every morning.
Anonymous No.24697963 >>24697985
>>24697939
Dopamine is good, the purpose of it is to reinforce your habits with that hit of mental stimulation. The problem is hijacking these same pathways to reinforce habits that do nothing for you, they just drain your time. Video games don’t produce anything, they don’t teach anything, they provide nothing material, they only take.
They don’t even end with an orgasm, in that way they are even worse than pornography. By all means do what you want, but the world would objectively be a better place if video games did not exist.
Anonymous No.24697982
>>24694197
Are you sure kissing these lips is a good idea?
Anonymous No.24697985 >>24698000
>>24697963
>Video games don’t produce anything, they don’t teach anything, they provide nothing material, they only take.
I would say there are some "lessons" in videogames the same way there are lessons in any form of entertainment. If your problem here is that you don't benefit financially from playing videogames, then that's also not true for everyone.

I really don't get what your argument here even is. It's supposed to be a leisurely activity, obviously it's not productive.
Anonymous No.24698000 >>24698003
>>24697985
But leisurely activities can be productive, they can make you fitter, healthier, more learned, build relationships, cultivate constructive skills.
In this way there’s a gradient to how bad video games can be. Playing professionally, playing to hack and mod it, playing socially with real life friends, these are better applications. But these are not the cases that give gamers the stigma they’ve acquired.
Anonymous No.24698003 >>24698012
>>24698000
What stigma are you talking about?
Anonymous No.24698012 >>24698016
>>24698003
You don’t know?
Anonymous No.24698016 >>24698032
>>24698012
Enlighten me. Are you just talking about Zoe Quinn and the gang?
Anonymous No.24698032 >>24698038
>>24698016
No, I’m talking about the growing awareness of the manchild problem, for which video games are totemic.
Anonymous No.24698038 >>24698044
>>24698032
So videogames are bad cause they turn you into a manchild or simply because they're associated with manchildren?
Anonymous No.24698044 >>24698051
>>24698038
Given how video game dependence usually starts in childhood the relationship is very likely at least in part causative.
Anonymous No.24698051
>>24698044
We're going in circles. We literally just had this "all games are addictive" argument like 4 replies back.

I'll let you have the last word if you want it.
Anonymous No.24698076 >>24698830
>>24697125
It's accelerating
Anonymous No.24698102
Herp derp reddit takes over lit with mind contorting sophostic posts in a thread about women being stupid cunts
Anonymous No.24698114
Dont for one second tell me there's any "higher platonic art" going on here you faggots
Anonymous No.24698145
>>24689120
>I'm not some puritan - I watch TONS of porn
Made me lol but >>24689134 is correct up until the why women make poor choices thing. Men and women alike are victims of exploitative marketing tactics combined with lowest common denominator content.
Anonymous No.24698808 >>24698849
>>24689496
they literally cannot reckon with reality
they just hate labels and what they entail

fucking "it's not what you said it's how you say it" should be chiseled onto a stone tablet of bs to remember when dealing with women in any circumstance
Anonymous No.24698829
>>24697310
>>24690713
what can I say, I like the drama
Anonymous No.24698830 >>24699085
>>24698076
>everyone is fat
>no one wants to have sex anymore
Anonymous No.24698849
>>24698808
This. If you ever hear a women say this bullshit the correct response is, "can you understand what im saying now you cunt?"
Anonymous No.24699085 >>24699275
>>24698830
Gen Z looks like this and still can't get laid
Anonymous No.24699275 >>24699302
>>24699085
Those are clearly faggots.
Anonymous No.24699302 >>24699308
>>24699275
No they are just zoomers dancing to reggaeton
Anonymous No.24699308
>>24699302
That's what I said.
Anonymous No.24699346
How do I as a man write good female first-person porn for women that will make me money?
Anonymous No.24699405
>>24689051 (OP)
Somehow is the fault of men for "slutshaming". These booktubers always say the same shit
Anonymous No.24699649
>>24694243
trvthnvke
irony and its consequences have lead to a severe deprivation of sincerity and thus such tenderness
Anonymous No.24699885
>>24690108
It's actually liberalism at it's core, fascism is unparaleled in its democracy, read Rousseau while doing your best not to drop the book out of disgust for the subhuman. This is alos why tankies, who are halfway through in applying democratic principles to class also absolutely shit themselves at the mention of fascists as well as shitlibs.
It's the logical conclusion of the argument, it has been this way ever since democracy murdered Socrates
>Don't fucking tempt me you literatural slut!
>t. /pol/ chud
Anonymous No.24699891
>24699885
>I forgot how to be literate
Sorry, but then again im a chud.
>Tankies who are halfway through in applying democratic principles but to class only instead of shitlib individualism, making a more coherent collective than "human"
>Shit themselves at the mere mention of fascists, exactly like shitlibs, with even more violence and vitriol at times
Anonymous No.24700188
>>24689051 (OP)
1.She is correct.
2.Would.
>>24689637
"X is puritanical" is a tired argument boomer. Your shitty perspectives that everything must bow down to libertarian/liberal cooming is one of the reasons the world is so fucked up. Soon your time will come.
Anonymous No.24700195
>>24689999
20/1 billion is still statistically insignificant, if they understood statistics.
Anonymous No.24700202 >>24700308
>>24690156
An ideology's true nature is what it results in, not what its proponents fantasise about. Places like California represent liberalism unrestrained. Ben Shaprio may argue that "oh that isn't real capitalism, that is corporatism" or whatever but capitalism across the world has led us to our current economy and society, ergo, that is capitalism. The results of North Korean style Communism is the true manifestations of that ideology, not the farmer paradise the propaganda books describe.

If we are to detach "your liberalism" from what has transpired in the most liberal voting places, then it exists as a functionally useless term that doesn't matter, like in a sci fi book, and thus should not be used in a discussion about real world politics.
Anonymous No.24700233 >>24700243 >>24700337 >>24700461
Men read as much porn, women are just more honest about it.
Anonymous No.24700243 >>24700311
>>24700233
Completely the opposite. Men realise they look at a bunch of porn, women pretend that their romance novels aren't porn.
Anonymous No.24700308
>>24700202
>An ideology's true nature is what it results in, not what its proponents fantasise about.
Precisely
Whatever this American Democrat ideology is, it’s not liberal. Liberalism has become a buzzword for progressivism, which is a distinct philosophical movement.
Early 20th century temperance movements were progressive, but they were blatantly illiberal, same for eugenics, or the new deal. I identity this as a specifically American phenomenon that radiates with American influence. This ontology where liberal means progressive and libertarian means actual liberals is native to America, in other countries liberal often means something else entirely because they’ve had their own distinct evolution from 19th century liberalism to now. The American stream is rooted in its own particular mythology of Whig history that has built a kind of parallel national mythos from abolitionism up to the civil rights movement and the other upheavals of the 1960s. Its values are not actually philosophical, they are mythological, the word liberal has value because their mythic heroes were in some way liberal, either genuinely or as a cynical brand name like FDR.
If you go to Australia or Japan, liberalism is right wing, if you go to England it’s increasingly soaking up American influence but until very recently liberalism meant libertarianism - and you can still see artefacts of this where the LDP are much more free marketish than their counterparts across the Atlantic.
What places like California represent is this particular American civic mythology as the dominant one. This is part of what is so queer about America, it does not have one United civic mythology like France or a complete void of one like Canada. America has multiple competing and often related civic mythologies. You have the progressive civic mythos, the 1776 mythos, it’s related and increasingly dissolved southern cousin, you have frontier civic mythologies in a gradient of flavours, and then you have more insular cases like Texas or Utah.
This kind of progressive ideology does not call itself liberal because it particularly values liberty, it calls itself liberal because it used to just be taken as a given that liberty and progress mutually advance each other - but that’s an artefact of a bygone age. The year 1 of this progressive mythology is not 1776, it’s 1863.
Anonymous No.24700311 >>24700346
>>24700243
I don't think you've ever talked to a real woman. They have zero shame about that kind of thing, at least amongst themselves..
Anonymous No.24700337 >>24700699
>>24700233
You can only make megabux selling literary porn to men when it’s basically a visual novel, it has to have pictures, and even then it’s niche compared to the porn routinely topping the NYT best sellers list.
Men are much more visual in exercising their libido. And while scenario, inner thoughts and dialogue can be important they’re not half as important as they are to women.
Male and female fantasies are also extremely different.
Female fantasies are like Harry Potter. Hero is taken out of grey boring world of inagency into sexy magical world of agency and power, the world around them changes more than the hero does. In this way something like 50 shades of Grey or Morning Glory Milking Farm follow this exact HP format, and it’s probably why HP is way more popular with women than with men even though it wasn’t intended that way.
Male fantasies on the other hand are like Spider Man. Hero discovers hidden ability and achieves agency and power in the world he already lives in, the world around him doesn’t change, he does, and he achieves mastery of it. In this way Summertime Saga is, in spirit, a superhero story. You can even see this in Naruto, the world Naruto lives in is already magical and exciting, but it still sucks for him to live in it until he realises his hidden powers and achieves mastery.
Anonymous No.24700346 >>24700456
>>24700311
Yeah but they don't see it as bad, as "pornography" like men use. They will say stuff like "yeah we read smut and it is perverted" but if you say "you are reading pornography like men watch it" they will disagree. They will also not see their written pornography as a problem (and desire to call it smut or erotica or romance etc...) whereas identifying men's as a problem/creepy/indicative of some sexual dysfunction or negative perception of women.

Society at large realises men's porn has lots of negatives to it but women's "erotica" or "romance" is seen as fundamentally different, not harmful. Women at large adhere to this view that their porn is fine/
>"not really porn, like not porn, I mean, that is different, it objectifies real women etc.... and makes men view women as objects, what we read is exploring fantasies of what men should be like" etc....

Plenty of men will feel guilty about using pornography and want to quit/wishing it wasn't mass available to them when they were younger. There is a fundamental disconnect in perception of the two, they aren't seen as equivalent, and women think theirs is ok by and large.
Anonymous No.24700354 >>24700387
>>24689051 (OP)
Anonymous No.24700387
>>24700354
I remember reading through a bunch of blubs of their smut shit and tons of them all had the female protagonist as 18, clearly thinking of her as younger but knowing it had to be written as 18 because any lower would draw criticism, but the fact that they were all slamming the age at exactly 18 made it pretty clear they were just trying to force it as low as possible, no 19s or 21s or whatever. I bet a bunch of the authors were thinking of shit like 15 or whatever while writing it, same as the readers.
Anonymous No.24700439 >>24700441 >>24700442 >>24701765 >>24702311
There a sort of a soft but unspoken feeling of pretentiousness emanating from her that I find nauseating.
Anonymous No.24700441
>>24700439
Is she an ant?
Anonymous No.24700442 >>24700453
>>24700439
I think it is kind of hot honestly.
Anonymous No.24700453
>>24700442
Good for you.
Anonymous No.24700456 >>24700462 >>24700470 >>24700472
>>24700346
Because fictional erotica is not porn. No matter how many culture warriors here cry and moan; written word is purely fictional and its only using the mind of the reader and the imagination of the writer as mediums. In real porn there are real people being exploit for profit, and you're seeing real people having sex in real time. In fiction there's no real people involved, is imaginative through start to finish. The same could be said about drawing or painted media such as manga: isn't real. Nobody is being exploited. Most of what happens is subject to the imagination of the artist and the reader. And once you stop reading you can clearly distinguish a cartoon, a painting or a book from real life. That's why most women can consume it without it affecting their psyche; the same argument could be made for visual novels or any other fictional media. Any other take outside of this is purely on the realm of "videogames make kids violent" pearl clutching idiocy.
Anonymous No.24700461 >>24700471
>>24700233
Men WATCH porn because their brains are more attuned to visual stimuli. Women READ porn because their need more of an emotional connection, a story, tied to it, and don't rely so much on the imagery.
Anonymous No.24700462
>>24700456
But framing porn as exploitation of the actors is not the most commonly raised objection to porn, that’s quite old fashioned and problematic with modern progressive ideological consensus on sex work.
The objections raised are more on the psychological and social effects of consuming it.
And you make a point yourself. No one is even arguably being exploited in hentai either. But hentai is a million times more socially frowned upon than erotica or even video porn. It is not prestiged and mainstreamed the way erotica is, anything but. So it can’t be that this is due to erotica being purely fictional.
Anonymous No.24700470
>>24700456
>it's not real bro
This defense doesn't work for lolis for some reason?!?!?!
Anonymous No.24700471 >>24700474 >>24700475
>>24700461
The amount of harem smut available would say otherwise. Men and Women both read tons of porn, it's just different types of porn.
Anonymous No.24700472 >>24700755
>>24700456
The objection most relevant does not pertain to the abuses in the product of said material, but its effect on the mind. Just because it isn't directly exploiting someone, doesn't mean it is good for the consumer. There are no studies that I am aware of for us to hurl at each other whether "most women can consume it without it affecting their psyche" but I would hold that it does have purchase there.

One example (if we leave aside the general scrambling nature of fixation on coom) is the unrealistic standards set up by pornography, written or visual, in physical appearance or deed. Just as plenty of men think women have to look and act like porno models, plenty of women think men should have the status and act (with the fictional romance) in the way their coom characters do - thing is, most people will always fall short of that - thus it has a disruptive effect on relationship seeking, forming and maintaining in society.

That is only one, as I said, but here lies the point that exploitation in production is not the only objection to pornography.
Anonymous No.24700474
>>24700471
Reverse harem smut outnumbers harem smut 100:1.
Seriously, have a look at the best selling erotica on Amazon and see how long you have to scroll until you find something that looks even vaguely like it’s intended for men, gay or straight.
Anonymous No.24700475 >>24700480 >>24700485 >>24700486
>>24700471
I've never known any man to read his porn, either in person or online. They probably do, but the amount must pale considerably to those who just download a video and beat off.
Anonymous No.24700480 >>24700488
>>24700475
I do, I always prefer text to video for porn. It’s far more ethical than porn videos, the plot is universally better, the kinks are more wild, more settings, etc.
Anonymous No.24700485 >>24700496
>>24700475
Of course they do, just look at the Amazon charts, they just don't tell their friends and people they know.
Anonymous No.24700486
>>24700475
I do but I also find it difficult to find erotica that appeals to me. Most of the erotica I coom to is erotica I write myself.
Anonymous No.24700488 >>24700500 >>24700516
>>24700480
How is it "ethical" ?
Anonymous No.24700496 >>24700512 >>24700513
>>24700485
This is the best selling erotica on Amazon
https://www.amazon.ca/Best-Sellers-Erotica/zgbs/digital-text/5792810011
Which of these is intended for men?
I scrolled to 60 and I couldn’t find even one with a masculine pen name, a cover forefronting a sexy woman’s body or about a male POV protagonist.
Anonymous No.24700500 >>24700509
>>24700488
By cooming to video porn you are giving money to Jews and pornstars. Or even worse, e-thots.
Anonymous No.24700509
>>24700500
I pirate all my porn
Anonymous No.24700512 >>24700550
>>24700496
Fuck those automatic ML assigned categories, they don't mean shit.

Just look at https://www.amazon.ca/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/5790317011
Anonymous No.24700513
>>24700496
Some of these covers make me laugh. I enjoyed the one with the spider. Nothing says erotica more than a tarantula.
Anonymous No.24700516 >>24700543 >>24700559
>>24700488
No actress is abused or exploited in the production of a smutty story. Whereas that happens in porn studios
Anonymous No.24700543 >>24700561
>>24700516
People are sometimes abused in any job. Many of them signed up to be actresses of their own choice and like it enough to continue working in that field.
Anonymous No.24700550 >>24700590
>>24700512
Men’s adventure is a completely different genre and even the most popular of those books aren’t even 1/10th as popular as some of the middling best selling erotica. In that category a few thousand reviews are an exceptional smash hit, a few hundred is best seller territory. And the best selling ones aren’t even the smutty ones, it’s Jack Reacher type shit. The absolute best
For erotica you’re talking tens of thousands, maybe even over a hundred of thousand.
The absolute most sold in that men’s adventure top 10 is patient of the night, a non-pornographic detective mystery story with about 20,000 reviews. That’s an exceptionally popular book by the standards of Men’s Adventure. Yet it’s barely more reviewed than Morning Glory Milking Farm, which is straight up porn about a woman jacking off minotaurs. And MGMF isn’t even close to being at the top of the top 10 most sold erotica.
Female erotica is so popular that multiple blockbuster movies have been adapted from works originating in this genre.
Anonymous No.24700559
>>24700516
More porn today is made by independent model-operated internet ventures than by studios. Old Hollywood porn studios are a dying industry.
Anonymous No.24700561 >>24700564 >>24700568
>>24700543
That is their prerogative. I do not wish to support these acts of actress abuse and so I use erotica instead. I do feel sex work is inherently more abusive/worse than any other form of work, or at least it has the potential to be so.
Anonymous No.24700564
>>24700561
How?
Anonymous No.24700568
>>24700561
I'm sure it is more mentally abusive than physical. Most people who sign up to get fucked on camera already have deep seated mental issues.
Anonymous No.24700582 >>24700588 >>24700590 >>24701081
The fourth best selling book in America right now is romantasy smut about a woman getting isekaied to grimdark Narnia and having a steamy romance with a 7ft tall fae dom.
Last week it was at #1, it has been on the list for 13 weeks.
Anonymous No.24700588 >>24700609
>>24700582
How do I get in on this?
Anonymous No.24700590
>>24700550
>>24700582
A grave consequence of women's literacy. Mayhap educators of yore knew not what had done.
Anonymous No.24700598 >>24700599
ITT: chuds grappling with the fact that men and women are different
Anonymous No.24700599
>>24700598
You want the chud to make steamy love to you, don't you anon?
Anonymous No.24700609
>>24700588
Step 1: choose feminine pen name
Step 2: create blank, featureless, nondescript young female protagonist to inhabit equally grey and mundane world
Step 3: choose whatever degenerate femgooner kinks you want to flavour this story
Step 4: create rich gigachad tailored to these kinks that inhabits sexy empowered world of magic/wealth/violence/all of the above
Step 5: femcel meets gigachad, he becomes utterly obsessed and invites her into his magical realm, she spends 200 pages salivating over his vascular calloused hands and his big girthy wallet
Step 6: profit
Anonymous No.24700699
>>24700337
Anonymous No.24700755 >>24700763 >>24700767 >>24700935
>>24700472
>but its effect on the mind.
AKA violent videogames turn kids into mass murderers and school shooters idiocy.
Anonymous No.24700763
>>24700755
You don’t have to agree with it but that logic is popularly applied to pornography while erotica is given a pass.
Anonymous No.24700767
>>24700755
The same logic of "nothing fictional affects the mind" would argue that propaganda doesn't work. Going on a killing spree requires breaking so many in-built natural and societal barriers in the mind that most people simply aren't going to do it regardless of what they consume or think. Plenty of people would love to murder those they have disputes with but don't because of the complications surrounding it and the initial mental hurdle. Sexuality and relationships is much more nebulous and does not have the same mental barriers.

Having unrealistic expectations of your partner can be egged on by having friends tell you how much better you deserve, and is incredibly common. Having your friends convince you to murder a bunch of children is very uncommon, and most people would reject it out of hand. Having people's repeated coom fantasies psy-op them around really isn't much of a stretch
Anonymous No.24700935
>>24700755
>AKA violent videogames turn kids into mass murderers and school shooters idiocy.
Have you seen how kids treat each other nowadays?
Anonymous No.24701073 >>24701133
Bottom line this fucking smut is all the same and exists purely to make women wet

Nobody can actually read this trash where the protag gets fucked by a vampire on page 5 and for the following 500 pages.
Anonymous No.24701081
>>24700582
>trey gowdy
Wat
Anonymous No.24701133
>>24701073
You can really tell what something was written to do by how it uses first person present tense narration.
Anonymous No.24701765
>>24700439
I like how she looks but she sounds like a Karen
Anonymous No.24702311
>>24700439
For me it's the tea fiddling, she has major handjob hag vibes. She's probably a master at it. But all arousal leaves the body thanks to the constant tea cupping. Women must learn to be better.
Anonymous No.24702649
>>24694243
truthnuke...
Anonymous No.24702792
>>24694243
anon, I only came here to hate on women......