← Home ← Back to /lit/

Thread 24712788

111 posts 24 images /lit/
Anonymous No.24712788 [Report] >>24712795 >>24712842 >>24712856 >>24713399 >>24713766 >>24713820 >>24717092 >>24717122 >>24717463 >>24717463 >>24717947 >>24720138 >>24720151 >>24720446 >>24721302 >>24721564 >>24721607 >>24722201 >>24722251 >>24722809
How do you achieve enlightenment and reach Nirvana?
Anonymous No.24712795 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
By quitting your wageslave job and becoming a NEET
Anonymous No.24712842 [Report] >>24712844 >>24712847 >>24713976 >>24714327 >>24720138
>>24712788 (OP)
I think that most of us are doomed to remain in Nirvana until some unbearable suffering finally breaks us and convinces us that nothing in the world is worth striving for. We have to be traumatized to the core. We have to lose our loved ones, fail in all our ambitions, and feel the decay of our bodies and minds. We have to understand, truly understand, that life is nothing but suffering and that all accomplishments and possessions are utterly empty.

Until that time comes, either in this life or in a future life, my feeling is that we are doomed to constantly chase after vain goals and to therefore remain miserable.

Basically I think it's not up to us to choose when we turn away from the world and "turn the light within," as the zen buddhists would say. We have to be broken by the world. That's the purest gift it can offer us.
Anonymous No.24712844 [Report]
>>24712842
Fuck, I meant Samsara.
Anonymous No.24712847 [Report] >>24712876 >>24720138
>>24712842
It it as though you have never heard of the Four Noble Truths or the Eightfold Path.
Anonymous No.24712856 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
I think today we just call that “disassociating”
Anonymous No.24712876 [Report] >>24713119
>>24712847
Of course I have. All I'm saying is that there is an enormous gap between saying "life is dukkha" and really, truly knowing it in depths of your heart. And I think that conviction can only arise, especially in modern degenerates like us, from an extremely deep and painful suffering. A kind of rebirth.
Anonymous No.24713119 [Report]
>>24712876
I'm not sure there's a connection there between how deep you have to know suffering and the decision to foreswear the worldly life. The Buddha himself led a life of privilege and never really suffered, even while he was in his extreme ascetism phase. He was always looked after, accompanied by others (the five bhikku), he was regarded as a prince, born into privilege and always retained that socially elite status even whe he was ostensibly a homeless beggar. He had no idea what suffering really was. And yet he was able to "enlighten" himself.
Anonymous No.24713399 [Report] >>24717661
>>24712788 (OP)
Say Namu Amida Butsu 3 times (with feeling!)
Wait until you die
Be reborn in Amida Buddha's pure land in a lotus flower palace
Spend 500 years there

Alternatively you could meditate on a koan while an extremely old Japanese man sneaks up behind you with a stick to batter the shit out of you when you least expect it.

Some Tibetan Buddhists got real into edging like *really* into edging you could consider that too ig.
Anonymous No.24713668 [Report] >>24713687 >>24713935
Unironically Schopenhauer
Anonymous No.24713687 [Report]
>>24713668
*Adi Sankara
Anonymous No.24713766 [Report] >>24717113 >>24717238
>>24712788 (OP)

Your true identity, which is described variously in sundry traditions as Tathagatagarbha, the Gound, the innate nature of Mind, Atman, your original mind etc, is nothing more than the immediate, spontaneously-present and unconditioned self-knowing awareness that is undivided, unfabricated, untainted, unchanging and which is without arising or ceasing.

It is already enlightened or without ignorance without beginning, it is merely the mind possesed of ignorance which fails to realize this. Enlightenemnt consists of realizing the presence of this Awareness within oneself, realizing it's distinctiveness from the body and ordinary mind, and cutting through the false identification of taking oneself to be the body or mind instead of this Awareness. Habits and ignorant conceptions in connection with duality etc that are contrary to enlightenment naturally fall away as a consequences of takining this realization to completion. Once you attain this understanding one simply continues to abide in it and it eventually becomes effortless to do so.

All the stuff about Anatta, Emptiness, mutual-interdependence, is just a means to an end, taking it as an end in itself is just allowing it to become intellectual baggage that stands in the way of enlightenment. Occasionally one sees online Buddhists wedded to their idea of Buddhism as a secular and empirical philosophy try to claim that all the stuff about Buddha nature is just a figerative way of speaking of peoples potential to realize emptiness and nothing more, that there is really no "true nature of mind" that is different from ordinary mind. Such "people" if they can be called that are barely-concealed materialists and are as far from enlightenment as possible.

>All aspects of mind arise as the self-expression of awareness, but they are not awareness itself. Otherwise, what we call the distinction between ordinary mind and pure awareness would become a distinction between pure awareness and pure awareness!
- Jigme Tenpe Nyima

>Question: Through what expedients is it possible to trace back the radiance of one's sense-faculties in one thought and awaken to the self-nature?
>Chinul: The self-nature is just your own mind. What other expedients do you need? If you ask for expedients to seek understanding, you are like a person who, because he does not see his own eyes, assumes that he has no eyes and decides to find some way to see. But since he does have eyes, how else is he supposed to see? If he realizes that in fact he has never lost his eyes, this is the same as seeing his eyes, and no longer would he waste his time trying to find a way to see. How then could he have any thoughts that he could not see? Your own numinous awareness is exactly the same. Since this awareness is your own mind, how else are you going to understand? If you seek some other way to understand, you will never understand. Simply by knowing that there is no other way to understand, you are seeing the nature.
- Chinul
Anonymous No.24713820 [Report] >>24713873 >>24713929
>>24712788 (OP)

Near death experience then use your new appreciation for the world and humans as a catapult. You'll feel it for 3ish years

Feeling enlightened gets boring after a while but worth experiencing
Anonymous No.24713873 [Report]
>>24713820
I wasn't quite near death but had many health issues over the last 4 months, one of which was close to being a deadly issue (almost developed meningitis which had me bedridden for 2 weeks).

I didn't quite gain a new *appreciation* for life; it made me acutely aware that I was *wasting* it. Maybe that's a kind of appreciation but I started looking for a new job immediately upon returning to work
Anonymous No.24713929 [Report] >>24713944
>>24713820
I survived a heroin overdose last year but it didn't really lead me to appreciate life, all it did for me was remove the fear of death, so now the idea of suicide feels far more doable
Anonymous No.24713935 [Report]
>>24713668
for Westerners, indeed
Anonymous No.24713944 [Report]
>>24713929
Been there. Your brain is fucked up. Focus on the fundamentals.. sleep, nutrition, physical activity, sunshine, human interaction, work that doesn't make you want to kill yourself. Buy some good shoes, a good mattress, don't eat trash and don't let assholes into your life. Mitigate what you can't change and force a positive mindset. Fake it until you make it. Pretend you're an actor who's got the role of a healthy person if you have to. Also Christ, of course.. but I get the reservations one has in the 21st century.

Also, as an aside, this board is Indian and Arab as hell now. No wonder Guenon gets posted incessantly. Makes you yearn for the days when that Japanese homo who hari kari'd himself and Tao Lin were the most pernicious figures posted here regularly.
Anonymous No.24713951 [Report]
Start with the Greeks.
Anonymous No.24713964 [Report]
>No wonder Guenon gets posted incessantly
basado
Anonymous No.24713976 [Report] >>24714010 >>24714304 >>24714355 >>24714721
>>24712842
now the big question i never understand about buddhists is that they correctly identify this aspect of reality, yet are utterly and completely opposed to simply just killing oneself. its like this ultimate form of nihilism is too frightening that you still attach yourself to the desire of having a "good" life by remaining alive, while still realizing everything is suffering and decaying. why is this the case? why doesn't buddhism embrace suicide?
Anonymous No.24714010 [Report] >>24714063
>>24713976
any ideology or religion that endorses suicide doesn't last very long. you give seekers an out and they'll often take it. there's probably been thousands of them that have faded into obscurity or been completely lost over time. also killing yourself is weak and gay, there's that.
Anonymous No.24714063 [Report] >>24714074 >>24714164 >>24714367
>>24714010
thats quite a big flaw, then. at least pessimist nihilist philosophers admit their cowardice to commit suicide or they just straight up commit suicide. from everything i see from buddhism, it seems to be, ironically, extremely attached to attachment as a religion and culture. why the fuck do concepts such as Brahmavihara matter at all its if all pointless rot anyway? just kill yourself no?
Anonymous No.24714074 [Report]
>>24714063
your first mistake was expecting eastern mystic nonsense to be rational and defendable.
Anonymous No.24714164 [Report] >>24714202 >>24714210
>>24714063
why would you kill yourself if you've solved the problem of suffering?
Anonymous No.24714202 [Report] >>24714208
>>24714164
suffering is unsolvable, it can only be mitigated. one such way is pretending you can solve the problem of suffering.
Anonymous No.24714208 [Report]
>>24714202
that may be true but within the religion the idea is that suffering is identified as the problem to be solved and the religion lays out the procedure for eliminating suffering and living in a state of bliss, so ostensibly the arahants and buddha enjoyed lives of bliss. they were not suffering because they had solved the suffering problem for themselves.
Anonymous No.24714210 [Report] >>24714271
>>24714164
because killing oneself is a, if not the, solution to suffering. the striving for your solution of suffering with things like the noble eightfold path leads to more suffering. seemingly atheistic nihilists like e.g. philipp mainlander and carlo michaelstaedter understood this
Anonymous No.24714271 [Report]
>>24714210
it's true that you may continue to suffer while you seek enlightenment but you may also experience moments of bliss and happiness. to kill yourself immediately is a form of extremism. recognizing that suffering exists doesn't imply, oh I should kill myself then. it's simply a statement of the truth. so the question is how do we mitigate suffering. the goal, in Buddhism as it is Western traditions is the Middle Way, the Golden Mean or the path of moderation. suicide is as much an extremist position as hedonism.

also Buddhism encourages compassion and monks play a pivotal role in teh life of a community. by collecting alms on a daily basis they are allowing the community to "make merit" even if that simply means being generous on a daily basis (if we assume atheistic materiality), which is important for both individual and community wellbeing.

lay people who may otherwise be suicidal may also feel that they have obligations to family/friends and suicide is not ideal. so in most cases it's not the solution.
Anonymous No.24714304 [Report] >>24714355
>>24713976
As far as I understand the Buddhist/Hindu worldviews, suicide is not considered a solution because of reincarnation. Killing yourself accomplishes nothing besides sending you immediately into the next life-dream. Actually it is worse than doing nothing, because suicide is motivated by desire, so it sinks you even deeper into Samsara. The real path to Nirvana is that of absolute renunciation - not only of pleasure and possessions, but also of fear, anxiety, escapism, and all the desires we aim to satisfy by killing ourselves. Basically we have to let go not only of the desire to live, but also of the desire to die, because desire is still desire.

I used to think reincarnation was a stupid dogma that was invented for specifically this reason, to avoid the logical consequences of the conviction that life is suffering. But after I thought about it more, I began to feel differently. Again, this is just what I think based on my small knowledge of those philosophies.
Anonymous No.24714327 [Report] >>24717036
>>24712842
Yes, Life is nhilist by any mean, When you come to think of it, We are born to experience tragedy and it's inevitable, Not experiencing tragedy is also a tragedy as you'll never feel life, It's hard to see heaven as something that exists because it's an escapism from life's tragedy into a muting of all senses and living in a "perfect" state of mind, but in that itself is taking god's position of living with a cosmic boredom until life rids itself and your subjects live a torment that you can't live since you're omnipotent..

It's fun to not give a fuck about all of this trust me because you must be absurd as life doesn't treat seriousness as such
Anonymous No.24714355 [Report]
>>24713976
>>24714304

To express myself a little differently, I would say that Buddhism does aim for a kind of suicide, but it also argues that the common idea of suicide is really just an illusion in which you think you’re escaping Samsara while in reality you’re only digging yourself deeper into the hole. Nirvana is a kind of ultimate cosmic suicide. And it makes sense to me intuitively that the ultimate achievement, liberation from all suffering, is not something we can earn through suicide (which in many cases is just as cowardly and selfish as any other action) but instead is something we can earn only by going down the most difficult path imaginable. By conquering all desire we are conquering ourselves and effectively conquering the world, putting ourselves above the world and becoming independent of it. It wouldn’t make sense if something so glorious wasn’t extremely difficult to acquire. But I understand that now I’ve left reason behind and I’m just talking about my feelings. Take it as you will.
Anonymous No.24714367 [Report] >>24714401
>>24714063
Good point but when you deconstruct all meanings you realize Buddhism is just a man-made concept that is also made as a form of retribution against the fear of death, It's all a fear of the inevitable made with fancy concepts and words and followings and united consciousness against a meaning that our ancestors experienced, It's this fear from not continuing life, The existential fear that doomed us since acquiring consciousness through evolution, We are by far the luckiest and unluckiest beings as we have uncovered life yet still cannot decipher its meanings and gazing at everything unfold in front of us while we cannot do anything, It's not a tragedy it's a cosmic irony, I believe that God exists because a reality so flawed yet inconvenient can never be made out of the absurd no fucking way...

Buddhism, Deism, Gnosticism.. Any bullshit that preaches isolation is just a fear from life
Anonymous No.24714401 [Report] >>24714497 >>24714710
>>24714367
>Any bullshit that preaches isolation is just a fear from life
If anything it's the ordinary man who is fearful. Living in buildings and walled cities, constantly seeking greater comfort and reassurance... ordinary life is the real escapism. A homeless ascetic who lives in the untamed wilderness and constantly examines and purifies his mind, hardly the vocation of someone "afraid of life."
Anonymous No.24714497 [Report] >>24714519
>>24714401
>Living in buildings and walled cities, constantly seeking greater comfort and reassurance
yeah, buddhists definitely do not have a culture of this at all...
Anonymous No.24714519 [Report]
>>24714497
Tibetans are fake Buddhists. Their religin is basically just shamanism
Anonymous No.24714710 [Report]
>>24714401
Both will die, Both use means of escape even if one lives in unity with the emptiness
"Untamed wilderness" "examines and purifies his mind"
That's a part of escapism
Anonymous No.24714721 [Report] >>24714819
>>24713976
>just put yourself in a different and shittier life bro! that will end samsara
Anonymous No.24714819 [Report] >>24715282
>>24714721
>samsara
Buddhists do not believe there is anything to reincarnate anyway
Anonymous No.24715278 [Report]
MCTB is a good starting place if you're serious about actually getting the job done
Anonymous No.24715282 [Report] >>24715304
>>24714819
You'll still have "your" memories and personality if you go to hell
Anonymous No.24715304 [Report] >>24715383
>>24715282
nope. not according to Buddhism.
Anonymous No.24715383 [Report] >>24715484 >>24716795 >>24717149
>>24715304
AN 3.36
>‘Worthy man, did you not see the third messenger of the gods that appeared among human beings?’
>They say, ‘I saw nothing, sir.’
>King Yama says to them, ‘Worthy man, did you not see among human beings a woman or a man, dead for one, two, or three days, bloated, livid, and festering
>They say, ‘I saw that, sir.’
>After grilling them about the third messenger of the gods, King Yama falls silent. The wardens of hell punish them with the five-fold crucifixion. They drive red-hot stakes through the hands and feet, and another in the middle of the chest. And there they suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings—but they don’t die until that bad deed is eliminated.
Not to mention the many accounts in the pettavuthu where petas recall the deeds that led to their punishment
Anonymous No.24715484 [Report]
>>24715383
None of that is Buddhism.
Anonymous No.24716795 [Report] >>24717009
>>24715383
Taking everything literally in the suttas is just as bad as taking everything literally in the Bible.
Anonymous No.24717009 [Report] >>24717086
>>24716795
>everything literally
Then why read the suttas if none of it is true? The suttas repeatedly state that the denial of the existence of rebirth and spontaneously born beings is wrong view (albeit a less harmful kind of wrong view.) The buddha was not a reddit atheist
>just as bad as taking everything literally in the Bible.
No it is not lol, even if the tripitika is completely bullshit. Taking slaves, stoning people to death for grabbing sticks, and committing genocide is worse than telling people to stop drinking
Anonymous No.24717036 [Report]
>>24714327
fuck off sartre
Anonymous No.24717086 [Report]
>>24717009
>none of it is true?
You have to read it with discernment. The core part of the teachings are the Buddha's beliefs. He was a philsopher, the "contemplative," as they described him. He didn't claim any kind of revelation and would not have had any access to these purported cosmologies. It's best to think of them as embellishments, in some cases "fan fiction" and in other cases outright efforts to obfuscate the true teachings for the sake of expediency. Ideas were very dangerous things in the past, after all, and philosophers who say things that go against the grain are playing with fire. This is why it was so important for the suttas to warn the monks to not espouse annihilation publicly, because the public (and more importantly, the rulers) believed it to be "evil." It had to be left to followers on their own to use their discernment to follow the logical argument and understand the consequence of anatta, etc. If you understand anatta properly, then you understand that there is nothing to incarnate or go on into any kind of afterlife.
Anonymous No.24717092 [Report] >>24717277
>>24712788 (OP)
Every time I meditate for longer than 10 minutes I start crying. I don't meditate anymore.
Anonymous No.24717113 [Report] >>24719812
>>24713766
>already enlightened or without ignorance without beginning, it is merely the mind possesed of ignorance which fails to realize this. Enlightenemnt consists of realizing the presen
So you're already enlightened but you stil need to do something to actually get enlightened, that's why advaita vedanta Is retarded
Anonymous No.24717122 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
Follow the eightfould path, and if you can listen to dharma talks from monks, choosen a tradition ,take refuge
Anonymous No.24717149 [Report]
>>24715383
Poṭṭhapāda Sutta (DN 9)
>“Poṭṭhapāda, it’s as if a man were to say, ‘I’m in love with the most beautiful woman in this country,’ and other people were to say to him, ‘Well, my good man, this most beautiful woman in this country with whom you are in love: do you know if she’s of the warrior caste, the brahman caste, the merchant caste, or the laborer caste?’ and, when asked this, he would say, ‘No.’ Then they would say to him, ‘Well then, do you know her name or clan name? Whether she’s tall, short, or of medium height? Whether she’s dark, fair, or ruddy-skinned? Do you know what village or town or city she’s from?’ When asked this, he would say, ‘No.’ Then they would say to him, ‘So you’ve never known or seen the woman you’re in love with?’ When asked this, he would say, ‘Yes.’
>“So what do you think, Poṭṭhapāda? When this is the case, don’t the words of that man turn out to be unconvincing?”
Anonymous No.24717238 [Report] >>24717364
>>24713766
>Tathagatagarbha, the Gound, the innate nature of Mind, Atman,
The first there concepts are all different things with different implications and the last one isn't even buddhist and goes against the anatta doctrine, and none of those concepts Is nirvana, all of them are tools to teach nirvana which goes beyond them, nirbana Is not conciousness, the Buddha Said it explicitly, to him.thta View Is eternalism and must be overcome un order to achieve complete freedom

From: DN 1 Brahmajāla Sutta: The All-embracing Net of Views
"49. "In the fourth case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists in regard to some things and non-eternalists in regard to other things, proclaiming the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal?

"Herein, bhikkhus, recluse or a certain brahmin is a rationalist, an investigator. He declares his view — hammered out by reason, deduced from his investigations, following his own flight of thought — thus: 'That which is called "the eye," "the ear," "the nose," "the tongue," and "the body" — that self is impermanent, unstable, non-eternal, subject to change. But that which is called "mind" (citta) or "mentality" (mano) or "consciousness" (viññāṇa) — that self is permanent, stable, eternal, not subject to change, and it will remain the same just like eternity itself.'

"This, bhikkhus, is the fourth case.

50. "It is on these four grounds, bhikkhus, that those recluses and brahmins who are partial-eternalists proclaim the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal. Whatever recluses and brahmins there may be who proclaim the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal, all of them do so on these four grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none.

51. "This, bhikkhus, the Tathāgata understands. And he understands: 'These standpoints, thus assumed and thus misapprehended, lead to such a future destination, to such a state in the world beyond.' He understands as well what transcends this, yet even that understanding he does not misapprehend. And because he is free from misapprehension, he has realized within himself the state of perfect peace. Having understood as they really are the origin and the passing away of feelings, their satisfaction, their unsatisfactoriness, and the escape from them, the Tathāgata, bhikkhus, is emancipated through non-clinging.
Anonymous No.24717242 [Report]
OP thinks he can get there by trying...that's still desire

He doesn't know. lol

You need to give up. Give up what you ask? everything
Anonymous No.24717277 [Report] >>24717374
>>24717092
You can try walking meditation
Anonymous No.24717364 [Report]
>>24717238
Brahmajāla is a good one
Anonymous No.24717374 [Report] >>24719836
>>24717277
Walking meditation is quite good. You pick a place where you won't be distracted. Find a path thats about say 10 to 20 steps in a straight line. As you walk pay attention to 3 things. When your feet leave the ground, when their in the air and when they touch the ground. Notice the feeling and be aware of which foot it is (right or left). Reach the end of your path, turn around and walk back. that's one. Start with something like 10 "trips" down and back. 3 times a day. Increase slowly. Once it's "working" you'll know it. It's unmistakable
Anonymous No.24717379 [Report]
Also, I like to combine walking meditation with mala beads. Each trip...go to the next bead to keep track
Anonymous No.24717463 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
>>24712788 (OP)
How do you know its not already the case?
You are not your thoughts.


Adding to what has been already posted here -
Advaita Vendetta,

but don't spiritually bypass your humanity (bodymind),

You may look to YT-
Simply Always Awake
Rupert Spira
Francis Lucille

Whatever resonates
Anonymous No.24717661 [Report]
>>24713399
Pure land Buddhism is heretical
Anonymous No.24717947 [Report] >>24717958 >>24718004 >>24718845 >>24721205
>>24712788 (OP)
Nirvana isn't anhilationism but it's some kind of "transcendence" that "goes beyond the duality of existing and not existing". I don't really get it. Moskha is much easier to understand - you reunite with the Godhead (Brahman) but what does Nirvana's transcendence entail? How can their be reincarnation if their's no self? Or is there a self that just isn't permanent?
Anonymous No.24717958 [Report] >>24718001
>>24717947
they're pretty much talking about the same thing but using different terms
the 'self' is the aggregates
there is ultimately no self, as in, once all of the karma of all of the aggregates is burnt up, you are left with 'brahman' or 'buddhanature', which I guess could be called 'raw reality' without any duality/selfing getting in the way, in even the most subtle of ways
not that you become some weird robotic entity you are actually much more alive and less 'stuffy' like your clogged nose (being completely self-based/karmically obscured) is completely unclogged and the breath (life) flows free with no resistance (not that you can't live, you breathe better with an unclogged nose, no?)
Anonymous No.24718001 [Report] >>24718702
>>24717958
Interesting, I've never heard it explained that way before. Thanks anon. So are jivanmuktas or people who are active Moksha while alive breathing freely? What is that like?
Anonymous No.24718004 [Report]
>>24717947
The problem with "unity with gidheas" Is that thisngoshead Is what cast you unto the illusion, so this unity Is just going back to a state that still has illusión as a potentiality, there's no radical change or overcoming, the causes and conditions of your ignorance still exist, nibbana Is the destrucción if those causes and conditions,absolute freedom without conditions, and Is by deffinition impossible to grasp because that would imply that nibbana Is conditioned by some concept that entables said grasping, you can't understand nibbana only the Marks of existence that negates your achieving of nibbana, Is a vía negativa kind of thing
Anonymous No.24718702 [Report]
>>24718001
well I am not fully enlightened so I can only do it poor justice
to be a fully enlightened buddha or a (I'm assuming this is the same but I may be wrong) jivanmukta you have to do it out of compassion for all beings, otherwise your progress gets stopped
so if someone has gone all of the way, they still have their own unique personality but without the stains of selfishness/duality, but no emotions are cut off from them, it's like they live their life with everything that comes and goes striking like lightning, rather than lingering on, but because of the compassion aspect, what they do is of benefit to others, they can live their own life but when interacting with other beings i have heard it described as they are like a perfect mirror (from a sense of compassion, as there's nothing to obscure the mirror like nature of brahman/buddhanature, but another aspect of this nature is natural compassion as well as being grounded and clear) but also very joyful, spontaneous people (but not crazy or irresponsible/maliciously harmful or something yet not attached to social conventions either) yet capable of any emotion like rage, love, jealousy, joy, etc but in equal proportion to the situation at hand and then it's gone, again the lightning strike example, unlike say normal people who if you're pissed off about something someone did you may linger on that thought for years to come, I certainly have.
now again, never been around somebody like this myself in real life, just read descriptions
so I do sincerely apologize if this is muddled or not accurate to the real thing but I believe it's at least a little like a glimpse
Anonymous No.24718845 [Report]
>>24717947
There is no single definition of nirvana. The word is used differently in different contexts. The first "nirvana" was Buddha discovering the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. The "final" nirvana was when he died. If you are trying to find a single meaning, you are on a fool's errand.
Anonymous No.24719812 [Report] >>24721199
>>24717113
>So you're already enlightened but you stil need to do something to actually get enlightened
The mind isn’t you, the mind is bound and the mind overcomes its bondage while you are already free, you have been free and always will be free; what the mind does is ultimately of no concern to you. It is ignorance that causes you to falsely identify yourself with the mind that acts and is bound.
Anonymous No.24719836 [Report] >>24719902
>>24717374
Can you just do it in small circles around a room?
Anonymous No.24719857 [Report] >>24720114
I've been meditating for about 15 minutes a day, praying, and doing active imagination exercises for 15 minutes a day, trying to achieve enlightenment.
Am I on the right track, bros?
Anonymous No.24719902 [Report]
>>24719836
I don't know can you? why don't you try it and find out
Anonymous No.24720114 [Report] >>24720115 >>24720261
>>24719857
Good. Now read some suttas from the nikayas (there’s free online translations of these from reputable sources. Listen to dhamma talks given by reputable monks online expounding upon said suttas. Meditation by itself is empty; Hinduism, Jainism, Taoism, Orthodox Christianity, Sufi Islam and even phenomenological epoche all have forms of contemplation that fall under the umbrella of “meditation”, yet they all result in incompatible religious and philosophical ideas. To perform Buddhist meditation, one must also be informed by Buddhism, so it is necessary to read and listen to learn about the religion.
Anonymous No.24720115 [Report]
>>24720114
Thanks
Anonymous No.24720138 [Report]
>>24712847
>Four Noble Truths or the Eightfold Path
nothing to do with enlightenment.
>>24712842
not zen.
>>24712788 (OP)
>>>/his/
Anonymous No.24720151 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
starve to death.
Anonymous No.24720261 [Report] >>24721085 >>24721210 >>24722253
>>24720114
Can enlightenment from Buddhism be supplementary to my Christian beliefs?
Anonymous No.24720446 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
Find a teacher
Anonymous No.24721085 [Report]
>>24720261
Yes, meditation will help you.
Anonymous No.24721199 [Report] >>24723706
>>24719812
>It is ignorance that causes you to falsely identify yourself
How can u be prey to ignorance and identificatión ifni'm not my mind tho? Those two things are aspects of mental activity, if i'm the one generating identities then why there's a mind in the first place? But if i can't generate (false)identities then i can't be a víctim of ignorance
Anonymous No.24721205 [Report]
>>24717947
>you reunite with the Godhead
Yes, you're reuniting with the causes and conditions that created your "fall from Grace" so you're gonna fall again, in buddhism all of us already did that an infinite numbers of times
>but what does Nirvana's transcendence entail?
Going beyond the causes and conditions of maya
>How can their be reincarnation if their's no self?
The karmic formations are the ones doing the rebirth
Anonymous No.24721210 [Report] >>24722256 >>24722264
>>24720261
No. Christianity proposes a form of eternalism which Buddhism explicitly rejects. And not merely through the idea of an eternal soul, but an eternal god. More practically, it allows for a gaping hole in the container you are supposed to build to train your mind--namely, the endurance of suffering or the taking up of virtue for sake of god or heaven rather than only for the sake of abandoning suffering itself. This is not merely language games or pedantics. Simply ask yourself if your god told you to kill someone or steal or lie would you do it? That's the difference between the virtue of the precepts of Buddhism and the commandments--one is taken up for the sake of attaining Right View which eventually makes the virtue self-evident. The other for the sake god and therefore subject to his whims and orders. The path of true freedom admits no masters. Not one's passions, which Christianity also rejects, but not one's gods either which Christianity does not.
Anonymous No.24721302 [Report] >>24721560 >>24722151
>>24712788 (OP)
>How do you achieve enlightenment and reach Nirvana?
Just chant Buddha's name indefinitely. It'll happen by itself.
Anonymous No.24721560 [Report] >>24722151
>>24721302
NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA. NAMO AMITABHA BUDDHA.
Anonymous No.24721564 [Report] >>24721593 >>24722709
>>24712788 (OP)
Even if someone were to explain it to you perfectly, you couldn't put it into practice. No being can transcend being.
Anonymous No.24721593 [Report]
>>24721564
>No being can transcend being.
Anonymous No.24721594 [Report] >>24721651
Rereading the suttas, it seems right view is a great big part of enlightenment and mindless chanting won't lead to it (though one could say that that's just for Pure Land). Even the jhanas are used for direct experience of right view--the three knowledges
Anonymous No.24721607 [Report] >>24722222
>>24712788 (OP)
>hinayana
by concentrating really hard until you gain magical powers and omniscience
>theravada
think about dharma really hard until you gain direct knowledge of nirvana by surpassing all means of indirect knowing.
>mahayana (third council)
by doing either of those things or by being suddenly enlightened by a random sound or literally any random thing that happens
>mahayana (tathagatagarbha)
rely on the magical buddha nature inside you to spontaneously awaken you when you do some kind of practice
>mahayana (storehouse consciousness)
skillfully dissolve karmic bonds so that the magical storehouse consciousness that stores karma inside it doesn't remember your bad karma anymore
>zen
a mix of those mahayana schools, but chinese and iconoclastic
>huayen
surpass all provisional views by realizing that beings are both empty and inherent essence and see the dharmakaya of vairocana buddha. also you realize that all practices are the same so you might as well start doing random bullshit to become enlightened
>tiantai
idk
>zen (bankei)
do nothing so that the unborn buddha mind (non-intentional action) smoothly handles all your affair
>shingon
huayen but japanese
>tibetan
hinduism but buddhist
>shin buddhism
don't do the three grave offenses or whatever they're called and amitabha buddha will carry you to a paradise where you easily become enlightened because everything is perfect there
Anonymous No.24721651 [Report]
>>24721594
>and mindless chanting won't lead to it
Mindless chanting won't necessarily not lead to it either.

In the infinitude of consciousness repeating a finite behaviour to gain a finite outcome results in achievement.

Increase your critique of Pure Land School. They're cunts, but chanting isn't why.
Anonymous No.24722151 [Report]
>>24721302
>>24721560
you have to receive the effects of the chant, if you just repeat it mindlessly and don't pause to receive it then it's useless, same for any prayer/praying
s No.24722201 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
How do I be cool?
Anonymous No.24722207 [Report]
How do you do?
Anonymous No.24722222 [Report] >>24722717
>>24721607
isn't hinayana and theravada the same thing tho?
Anonymous No.24722251 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
By gauging your butthole with plugs of increasing size until it's big enough to encompass your entire body, thereby creating a paradox because a hole cannot exceed the size of its medium, which causes you to disappear into the fabric of spacetime and escape the cycle of samsara
Anonymous No.24722253 [Report]
>>24720261
No, but look into hesychasm and theosis if orthodox, mystical contemplation and meister eckhart’s works if catholic, and if protestant…well, there’s not much, but the methodists have some ideas I think.
Anonymous No.24722256 [Report]
>>24721210
>All Christianity is Protestant nominalist divine command theory that is considered heresy by most Christians.
Anonymous No.24722264 [Report]
>>24721210
Also:
>The path of true freedom admits no masters. Not one's passions, which Christianity also rejects, but not one's gods either which Christianity does not.
>"Le freedom is le modern freedom as ultimately undetermined, and therefore arbitrary power/potency, not the capacity to actualize the Good."
That's not Buddhism. That's not traditional Christianity. That's Calvinism and then, at this point, most forms of Anglophone atheism, which is basically just the same thing with God cut out and man put in his place. Freedom without telos is incoherent though, it's just sheer arbitrariness.
Anonymous No.24722709 [Report]
>>24721564
Being and becoming are the same, it's in the nature of being to overcome being
Anonymous No.24722717 [Report] >>24723153 >>24723379
>>24722222
No. Theravada is a revivalist sect. Saying Hinayana and Theravada are the same is like saying that Jehovah's Witnesses are the same as 1st century AD Christians. The only reason people think they are the same is because of Theravada LARPers pretending that they are.
Anonymous No.24722809 [Report]
>>24712788 (OP)
From a Christian perspective, to reach enlightenment or nirvana, I would recommend living a life of virtues, regular prayer, reading the Scriptures, and working to reach a point by the grace of God where you move beyond mental prayer (meditation), and into states of contemplation. Meditate often on impermanence of the body, earthly things, and remember that you will die. Fundamentally you want to live an ascetic lifestyle based on prayer and meditation and detachment from impermanent things. On all of this, all religious paths agree.
Anonymous No.24723153 [Report] >>24723182 >>24723379
>>24722717
I think you’re confusing Thai Forest and Vipassana movements with Theravada as a whole. Theravada has existed since at least the first century AD in Sri Lanka, and later in Thailand, Myanmar and other parts of south and east asia, and is also the form practised in east India (where Buddhism arose). The revivalist movements only wanted to revive certain practices in Theravada (particularly lay meditation, something that had given way to rituals and meditation restricted to monks).
Anonymous No.24723182 [Report] >>24723697
>>24723153
>first century AD in Sri Lanka
so over a thousand miles away and 5-600 hundred years after Buddhism was founded. By that time, several mahayana sutras had probably been written. the pali suttas and buddhist doctrine almost certainly evolved to a great extent. there were already splits forming or having formed in Buddhism by then.
Anonymous No.24723379 [Report] >>24723697
>>24723153
>>24722717

Do you have any book recommendations about the spread of Buddhism into Southeast Asia? I'm intererested in the history of Buddhism.
Anonymous No.24723697 [Report]
>>24723182
Yes, nobody denies that Buddhism spread across India and outside it, that splits occurred, that the earliest Mahayana sutras are only about a century or so younger than the earliest Theravada manuscripts, that an evolution of doctrine had occurred in the half a millennium between them and the Buddha’s death.

Your point? Theravada is still as old as the oldest Mahayana lineages in China, and not a recent revivalist movement. Moreover, Mahayana schools continued to evolve their doctrine and religion during the first millennium AD and later, while Theravada schools stuck to these early 1st century texts and archaic practices.

>>24723379
Don’t have any off the top of my head tho.
Anonymous No.24723706 [Report] >>24725915
>>24721199
>How can u be prey to ignorance and identificatión ifni'm not my mind tho?
You aren’t prey to ignorance, when I said “you” there is was speaking of your mind and not you, i.e. I was addressing the conventional “you” as the mind conceives of yourself via ignorance, for the sake of brevity and because you already conceive of yourself in this way. It would have admittedly be more precise to specify that clearly.

>Those two things are aspects of mental activity
correct
> if i'm the one generating identities then why there's a mind in the first place?
The mind engages in all conceptualization about identity, the Self doesn’t engage in any conceptualization whatsoever
>But if i can't generate (false)identities then i can't be a víctim of ignorance
you aren’t, only the mind is
Anonymous No.24724829 [Report] >>24725251 >>24725277
Brahma Viharas are seemingly not mentioned in this thread. Just a reminder that they are available to anyone anytime.
>feeling bleak and nihilist and being sick of it? Just do brahma viharas!
Anonymous No.24725251 [Report]
>>24724829
Yes, this could be the best type of meditation.
Anonymous No.24725277 [Report] >>24726105 >>24726111
>>24724829
How do you do it?
Anonymous No.24725915 [Report] >>24725952
>>24723706
>when I said “you” there is was speaking of your mind and not you,
But then if i'm never ignorant and i'm not my mind, then there's no problem whatsoever, advaita was never needed in the first place, ignorance can't even exist since it's fooling nobody
if what happens to my mind doesn't affect me then there's no need for salvatión, but if what happens to my mind affects me, then i am my mind
Anonymous No.24725952 [Report] >>24726152
>>24725915
>But then if i'm never ignorant and i'm not my mind, then there's no problem whatsoever
There's no problem whatsoever for the real you, there is a problem for the mind that it experiences. The mind can continue in suffering or overcome the issue and end suffering and rebirth, either way the real you is already fine regardless of what it does.

For the living being living in the empirical perspective and living under a false sense of identity created by ignorance, attaining spiritual fulfillment and ending suffering still has meaning as a goal even if it may already be true that their true self has always and will always be forever fulfilled and free of suffering and ignorance.

Merely being told this verbally doesn't actually free one from suffering until one personally has the corresponding realization, so until the ignorant person attains enlightenment the goal and process of attaining freedom has all the value and meaning that it needs to justify pursueing it, but once the summit is attained it's realized that one's true self had been blissfully free and perfect all along, but one has to reach the summit before this can be personally realized and experienced.
Anonymous No.24726105 [Report]
>>24725277
the Visuddhimagga has more complete instructions but the basic form can be found on this page in the Digha Nikaya 13 section

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanaponika/wheel006.html
Anonymous No.24726111 [Report]
>>24725277
I’m practicing every method whenever I remember & chances let, but Bhamte Vimalaramsi’s 6R method is a foolishly simple one and it’s based on the suttas with good reasonings included within. He insists making the Metta as a primary meditation object and taking that everywhere and anytime. It’s sound and it works for my case.
Anonymous No.24726122 [Report]
I. Here, monks, a disciple dwells pervading one direction with his heart filled with loving-kindness, likewise the second, the third, and the fourth direction; so above, below and around; he dwells pervading the entire world everywhere and equally with his heart filled with loving-kindness, abundant, grown great, measureless, free from enmity and free from distress.

II. Here, monks, a disciple dwells pervading one direction with his heart filled with compassion, likewise the second, the third and the fourth direction; so above, below and around; he dwells pervading the entire world everywhere and equally with his heart filled with compassion, abundant, grown great, measureless, free from enmity and free from distress.

III. Here, monks, a disciple dwells pervading one direction with his heart filled with sympathetic joy, likewise the second, the third and the fourth direction; so above, below and around; he dwells pervading the entire world everywhere and equally with his heart filled with sympathetic joy, abundant, grown great, measureless, free from enmity and free from distress.

IV. Here, monks, a disciple dwells pervading one direction with his heart filled with equanimity, likewise the second, the third and the fourth direction; so above, below and around; he dwells pervading the entire world everywhere and equally with his heart filled with equanimity, abundant, grown great, measureless, free from enmity and free from distress.

— Digha Nikaya 13
Anonymous No.24726152 [Report]
>>24725952
>so until the ignorant person attains enlightenment the goal and process of attaining freedom has all the value and meaning that it needs to justify pursueing


It can't have value because he's never non-enlightened, he's never ignorant, another thing that Is not related to him Is ignorant, unless of course it's actually a part of him
again if my mind needs liberatión that means i need liberation thus i'm my mind since anyndistinction between the two becomes shallow, if i don't need liberation a spiritual path is useless, that other thing can adnshould remain ignorant, since the quality of liberation exist for someone else, so this method Is self defeating, If this "ignorant persón" Is not me, then all of this Is futile