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Thread 24829269

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Anonymous No.24829269 [Report] >>24829431 >>24829451 >>24829725 >>24830784 >>24830916 >>24831053 >>24831080 >>24831244 >>24838965 >>24839880 >>24839928 >>24842049
BotNS
Severian did nothing wrong
Anonymous No.24829431 [Report] >>24840014 >>24840215
>>24829269 (OP)
He raped Baldanders on the boat.
Anonymous No.24829451 [Report] >>24844825
>>24829269 (OP)
>abdicates all personal responsibility to become an instrument of torture, death and revenge for the powerful
Sounds a little ... questionable.
Anonymous No.24829689 [Report]
Makes me not want to pick up this catholic slop
Anonymous No.24829725 [Report]
>>24829269 (OP)
He raped his grandma, Dorcas.
Anonymous No.24830784 [Report]
>>24829269 (OP)
He raped Phoebe in the jakes
Anonymous No.24830916 [Report]
>>24829269 (OP)
I'm pretty sure Father Inire touched him as a kid, that would explain some stuff
Anonymous No.24830940 [Report] >>24830942 >>24831260 >>24836128
>Overall, I found nothing unique in Wolfe. Perhaps it's because I've read quite a bit of odd fantasy; if all I read was mainstream stuff, then I'd surely find Wolfe unpredictable, since he is a step above them. But compared to Leiber, Howard, Dunsany, Eddison, Kipling, Haggard, Peake, Mieville, or Moorcock, Wolfe is nothing special.
>Perhaps I just got my hopes up too high. I imagined something that might evoke Peake or Leiber (at his best), perhaps with a complexity and depth gesturing toward Milton or Ariosto. I could hardly imagine a better book than that, but even a book half that good would be a delight--or a book that was nothing like that, but was unpredictable and seductive in some other way.
>I kept waiting for something to happen, but it never really did. It all plods along without much rise or fall, just the constant moving action to make us think something interesting is happening. I did find some promise, some moments that I would have loved to see the author explore, particularly those odd moments where Silver Age Sci Fi crept in, but each time he touched upon these, he would return immediately to the smallness of his plot and his annoying prick of a narrator. I never found the book to be difficult or complex, merely tiring. the unusual parts were evasive and vague, and the dull parts constant and repetitive.
>The whole structure (or lack of it) does leave things up to interpretation, and perhaps that's what some readers find appealing: that they can superimpose their own thoughts and values onto the narrator, and onto the plot itself. But at that point, they don't like the book Wolfe wrote, they like the book they are writing between his lines.
Anonymous No.24830942 [Report] >>24830957 >>24831091 >>24835351 >>24836128
>>24830940
>Then there is the fact that every character you meet in the story turns up again, hundreds of miles away, to reveal that they are someone else and have been secretly controlling the action of the plot. It feels like the entire world is populated by about fifteen people who follow the narrator around wherever he goes. If the next two books continue along the same lines, then the big reveal will be that the world is entirely populated by no more than three superpowered shapeshifters.
>Everyone in the book has secret identities, secret connections to grand conspiracies, and important plot elements that they conveniently hide until the last minute, only doling out clues here and there. There are no normal people in this world, only double agents and kings in disguise. Every analysis I've read of this book mentions that even the narrator is unreliable.
>This can be an effective technique, but in combination with a world of infinite, unpredictable intrigue, Wolfe's story begins to evoke something between a soap opera and a convoluted mystery novel, relying on impossible and contradictory scenarios to mislead the audience. Apparently, this is the thing his fans most appreciate about him--I find it to be an insulting and artificial game.
>I agree with this reviewer that there is simply not enough structure to the story to make the narrator's unreliability meaningful. In order for unreliable narration to be effective, there must be some clear and evident counter-story that undermines it. Without that, it is not possible to determine meaning, because there's nowhere to start: everything is equally shaky.
>At that point, it's just a trick--adding complexity to the surface of the story without actually producing any new meaning. I know most sci fi and fantasy authors seem to love complexity for its own sake, but it's a cardinal sin of storytelling: don't add something into your story unless it needs to be there. Covering the story with a lot of vagaries and noise may impress some, but won't stand up to careful reading.
Anonymous No.24830955 [Report]
What causes this behaviour?
Anonymous No.24830957 [Report]
>>24830942
I like them all.
Anonymous No.24831053 [Report] >>24834803
>>24829269 (OP)
So is Severian the great schemer pulling all the strings, or is he a helpless cog in a machine?
Anonymous No.24831080 [Report]
>>24829269 (OP)
he didnt mating press dorcas day and night
Anonymous No.24831091 [Report]
>>24830942
I'm catholic and I love that meme
Anonymous No.24831244 [Report] >>24831264 >>24831501 >>24839768
>>24829269 (OP)
>Adopted child gets blasted by laser beams.
I guess that wasn't his fault.

Why did he have so much sex? Why can't I have so much sex? Is it good to have so much sex? Is it bad to wish to have so much sex?

Should I have sex?
Anonymous No.24831260 [Report] >>24833087
>>24830940
>compared to Moorcock, Wolfe is nothing special
Did Michael Moorcock write this?
Anonymous No.24831264 [Report] >>24831266 >>24838873 >>24838933
>>24831244
>Why did he have so much sex?
Because as the embodiment of the New Sun he can't help being appealing to the women of the decaying Urth. He literally represents/constitutes an infinite flow of vitality. As the rejuvenator of the planet he's supernaturally fecund.
Anonymous No.24831266 [Report] >>24831305
>>24831264
Oh and besides that he's also a chad with an absolute tangle of dark triad traits, which hoes love on any planet.
Anonymous No.24831305 [Report]
>>24831266
>a chad with an absolute tangle of dark triad traits
Can't argue with that.
Anonymous No.24831501 [Report] >>24831524 >>24831615
>>24831244
>I guess that wasn't his fault.
He tried to stop the kid. He just didn't get there in time.
Anonymous No.24831524 [Report] >>24831708
>>24831501
And he avenged him shortly afterwards.
Anonymous No.24831615 [Report] >>24831708
>>24831501
Typhon was such a jerk. The entire sequence of events that occurred from the moment little Severian was turned into a corndog until Typhon was killed was the best part of the book IMO. Shit was crazy..
Anonymous No.24831708 [Report] >>24831740 >>24832128 >>24833092
>>24831524
>>24831615
Didn't Typhon just set up a security system for his big ass gold ring 40,000 years earlier? Are we really going to blame him for a cute kid getting hit?
Anonymous No.24831740 [Report] >>24839871
>>24831708
Yeah, you may be right. Typhon sort of implies that he did it himself, but the fact that there were heaps of bleached and brittle bones around the same spot little Sev died implies that it was pretty much just as you say.

Security system or not, Typhon was still a jerk.
Anonymous No.24832128 [Report]
>>24831708
I mean, one way or another he's to blame.
But yes, I also read it the way you do, that it's an automated protective mechanism.
Anonymous No.24832938 [Report] >>24833037 >>24833345 >>24838068 >>24846820 >>24847184
>check some random person's review of BotNS
>|0/10 book" entirely because of Jolenta's rape
>it's a woman's review

Jolenta made a faustian deal to turn herslef into less of a person and more of an object of desire, and she got treated as such.
I think that all the women complaining about muh rape would have taken the exact same deal, and because of that they feel personally attacked by the "rape" of Thigh-lenta.
Anonymous No.24833037 [Report] >>24833117 >>24834809 >>24838068 >>24846820
>>24832938
She literally wasn't raped. Anyone propagating this meme should be eviscerated.
Anonymous No.24833087 [Report]
>>24831260
Didn't Moorcock love BotNS, or at least Wolfe's works in general?
Anonymous No.24833092 [Report]
>>24831708
Typhon was watching them for a while, iirc, and didn't lift a finger to stop the kid walking to his death.
Even if he wasn't watching them, he certainly shows no remorse over it.
Anonymous No.24833117 [Report]
>>24833037
So true. She was was obviously dtf.
Anonymous No.24833168 [Report] >>24833203
wizard knight>>>>botns
Anonymous No.24833203 [Report]
>>24833168
i'm not Able to move past "soon time will ripen, and we will come again" and what that means for the entire story.
Anonymous No.24833345 [Report] >>24833405 >>24834688 >>24835320 >>24838068 >>24846820
>>24832938
>rape
Only thing that bugged me was that Severian didn’t expect it to hurt Dorcas’ feelings. I’d figured he had a bit more compassion than that towards the woman he loved. But then I thought about back when I was younger and opportunities for sex with women was in no short supply, and I guess I probably would’ve done the same thing. It isn’t until later on that he starts to consider the moral aspect of sexual restraint.
Anonymous No.24833405 [Report]
>>24833345
You have to remember, he's been raised in a weird, cloistered way and his only contact with women has been hookers, and a captive noblewoman with sexual morals that are likely nonstandard (the nenuphar pool is part of the House Absolute, after all). He literally has no way of knowing that sexual infidelity is upsetting to normal people.
Anonymous No.24834459 [Report] >>24835443
anyone have the pic of what i expected vs what i got regarding new sun and the first 2 images being star wars and dune?
Anonymous No.24834688 [Report]
>>24833345
>Severian didn’t expect it to hurt Dorcas’ feelings
I don't recall any indication that he considered them.
Anonymous No.24834801 [Report] >>24838937 >>24841531
I've almost finished all 10 "sun" books for the past ~11 months so I can finally LOOK UP THE FUCKING ONLINE DISCUSSION

I know the books are more about experience than "spoilers", but I want the experience of the story as the author intended
Anonymous No.24834803 [Report]
>>24831053
Both
Anonymous No.24834809 [Report] >>24834843
>>24833037
>She literally wasn't raped
Severian pretty much admits he raped her in Urth of the New Sun
Anonymous No.24834813 [Report] >>24835325
Thoughts on Long Sun and Short Sun?
I think New Sun is the best of the bunch
Anonymous No.24834843 [Report] >>24834909 >>24838068
>>24834809
he actually completely disavows the whole thing.
>I had been brutal enough with the khaibit Thecla of the House Azure, then as mild and clumsy as any untouched boy with the real Thecla in her cell; fevered at first with Dorcas, quick and clumsy with Jolenta (whom I might have been said to have raped, though I believed then and believe still that she wished it)
when you go and reread claw, it makes more sense with her bragging about how desired she is and teasing severian.
>She stopped and turned, smiling. “That’s just it. Don’t you see? I can make anyone desire me, and so he, the One Autarch, whose dreams are our reality, whose memories are our history, will desire me too, unmanned or not. You have wanted women other than me, haven’t you? Wanted them badly?”
this is just a sample. rape accusations in the context of this story are absurd.
Anonymous No.24834909 [Report]
>>24834843
You got me
Anonymous No.24835320 [Report]
>>24833345
He mentions that Dorcas and Jolenta were messing around. It makes sense that Dorcas would see carpet munching and sex differently, but not that she should expect Severian to refrain from what she herself couldn't.
Anonymous No.24835325 [Report] >>24835333
>>24834813
In Green's Jungles is the single greatest book Wolfe ever wrote.
Anonymous No.24835330 [Report]
he slept in the same bed as another man, that's kinda gay
Anonymous No.24835333 [Report] >>24835391
>>24835325
It's pretty good yeah, a lot of dramatic events, those little stories-in-stories Wolfe loves
What in particular makes it deserving of that
Anonymous No.24835351 [Report] >>24835533
>>24830942
Anyone who thinks Severian is an unreliable narrator didn't read the books. He might occasionally be wrong about things, but he's never dishonest.
Anonymous No.24835391 [Report] >>24835534 >>24838948 >>24839019
>>24835333
Horn is the most compelling MC in all of Wolfe's novels, he's a very complex character where Severian is a bit of a robot, Silk (or at least Horn's portrayal of him) is a boring milquetoast, Able is a caricature, Latro is mostly just a narrator with the rest of the characters being more interesting, etc. It's Horn's relationship with the inhumi that define his character arc, and IGJ is where most of that happens, with Krait and Fava and Jahlee. Also the embedded stories are sovl.
Anonymous No.24835443 [Report]
>>24834459
This one?
Anonymous No.24835533 [Report]
>>24835351
Unreliable narrator is independent of intent
Anonymous No.24835534 [Report]
>>24835391
That's true, I think Horn is the most interesting character of his
Anonymous No.24836128 [Report] >>24838870
>>24830940
>It all plods along without much rise or fall, just the constant moving action to make us think something interesting is happening
>>24830942
>It feels like the entire world is populated by about fifteen people who follow the narrator around wherever he goes
kek I like botns but this is spot on
Anonymous No.24836947 [Report]
Horn had...a hard life
Anonymous No.24836958 [Report] >>24837476
I feel like this at the end of every Gene Wolfe book. There are so many fucking ALLUSIONS, references, and and things left unsaid. Particularly once we get to all this spirit and dream fuckery
Anonymous No.24837476 [Report] >>24837690
>>24836958
Ever read The Land Across? I practically got to the point of bumming a smoke off Barney.
Anonymous No.24837690 [Report]
>>24837476
I've only read all his "Sun" books, I just finished Return to the Whorl yesterday
Anonymous No.24837979 [Report] >>24837998 >>24838954
Patera Remora, er, speaks in a rather, uh, longwinded way, eh?
Anonymous No.24837998 [Report] >>24838014
>>24837979
Aye, bucky.
Anonymous No.24838014 [Report] >>24838042
>>24837998
Muckle lasses, prog an' grog
Een fer me? What's fashing him, bucky?
Anonymous No.24838042 [Report]
>>24838014
We could all take a page out of Pig's (pbuh) book.
Anonymous No.24838068 [Report] >>24838079 >>24839228
>>24832938
>>24833037
>>24833345
>>24834843
Severian resented Jolenta for her beauty and allure and sought to see it destroyed/brought low
he imagines the consensual sex as an act of rape because he wishes it was that
Anonymous No.24838079 [Report] >>24838111
>>24838068
wishes it were that*
Anonymous No.24838111 [Report]
>>24838079
don't ever try to embarrass me again
Anonymous No.24838870 [Report] >>24838940
>>24836128
lol yeah its funny. He's writing about the people he cares about and most of them are literally following him though. The ones who aren't following him are orchestrating his journey and telling him where to go. I think the most egregious coincidental meeting is how he keeps running into the Badger.
Anonymous No.24838873 [Report]
>>24831264
You forgot to mention he's tall as fuck, beautiful, and always goes shirtless so everyone can see his sick abs. Its notable that after becoming a facially scarred gimp, Sev goes no bitches and has to marry the woman trapped in the basement of the Citadel
Anonymous No.24838933 [Report]
>>24831264
every single woman outside of valeria(which we know little about and even this seems like divine providence), is sleeping with him as part of their agenda or service though. thecla, agia, jolenta, cyriaca are obvious but dorcas needs his protection and the prostitute slave near lake diaturna is just doing her job.
>You forgot to mention he's tall as fuck, beautiful, and always goes shirtless so everyone can see his sick abs.
he's above average in height compared to his peers but gets mogged by exultants, baldanders, typhon, heirodules, etc. also, silk/horn doesn't consider him all that handsome but perhaps he's decent looking relative to his period on urth.
Anonymous No.24838937 [Report] >>24839805
>>24834801
Nice, how about that Typhon huh? If I were him I'd have given myself two dicks
Anonymous No.24838940 [Report]
>>24838870
>He's writing about the people he cares about
this. it's easy to forget how massively populated nessus is.
>Every attempt to count them has failed, as has every attempt to tax them systematically. The city grows and changes every night, like writing chalked on a wall. Houses are built in the streets by clever people who take up the cobbles in the dark and claim the ground - did you know that? The exultant Talarican, whose madness manifested itself as a consuming interest in the lowest aspects of human existence, claimed that the persons who live by devouring the garbage of others number two gross thousands. That there are ten thousand begging acrobats, of whom nearly half are women. That if a pauper were to leap from the parapet of this bridge each time we draw breath, we should live forever, because the city breeds and breaks men faster than we respire.
with the focus being on those close to him, it's often easy to forget the madness surrounding him leaving the city for instance, or the crowds in saltus or house absolute and the massive landscape of thrax.
Anonymous No.24838948 [Report]
>>24835391
Horns definitely the most interesting protagonist, and I agree that In Green's Jungles is probably the best, but I find something really entrancing about On Blue's Water. The whole world is so mysterious and doesn't get explained, and what explanations we're given Horn kind of just shrugs off. It's a fun boat ride with the closest thing we can get to who Horn really was and it sets the stage for the tragedies that will come. Every time I read OBW I really feel it when Horn says the happiest part of his life had ended in that pit. I feel a nostalgia for time I didn't experience and of which was barely even described to me. It's all just so evocative in a way I can't pin down.
Anonymous No.24838954 [Report]
>>24837979
Like a retard, speaking he is. Loving every time he appears in the story I am.
Anonymous No.24838965 [Report] >>24838971 >>24838972 >>24839944
>>24829269 (OP)
Anything else from Wolfe worth reading?
Anonymous No.24838971 [Report]
>>24838965
depends on your tastes but wizard knight is phenomenal and incredibly layered if you like fantasy. outside of the solar series, i also really like fifth head, peace and his island of dr death short stories.
Anonymous No.24838972 [Report]
>>24838965
Well the obvious choice is Short Sun which might be considered better than New Sun. You'd need to read Long Sun first, though. After that Wizard Knight is really popular. I'm reading through his short stories now. Wolfe's short stories he puts in his novels are usually high lights, so his short story collections are probably going to be very good. Fifth Head of Cerberus has been really good so far (about half way through).
Anonymous No.24839019 [Report]
>>24835391
I feel like Silk is boring milquetoast on the first read until you pick up the subtleties of how he's a hardcore suicidal masochist who is constantly on the verge of self annihilation
Anonymous No.24839060 [Report]
Anyone have that image comparing Severin being barely a bad guy and another Wolfe MC being a bad guy and learning nothing?
Anonymous No.24839228 [Report]
>>24838068
There's enough headcanon on these books without you adding more.
Anonymous No.24839534 [Report] >>24839545 >>24839697 >>24839921
hardcover is expensive
Anonymous No.24839545 [Report] >>24840699 >>24847135
>>24839534
as cool as that is to have, it's very cumbersome and the pages are really thin and see through. i think i'd prefer the short sun hardcover omnibus to that desu but i have neither.
Anonymous No.24839697 [Report] >>24847135
>>24839534
No idea why they stopped printing it. I bought a new one and my wife trashed it. Lightly worn copies are now 200 bucks.
Anonymous No.24839757 [Report]
i enjoyed it reading in my early 20's, mainly for the cool scenes and edginess but recently read it again and it wasn't that good
Anonymous No.24839768 [Report]
>>24831244
The only believable sexual encounters are date rate and his own grandma. The rest can be explained easily:
>dude is just a liar
Anonymous No.24839805 [Report] >>24839810 >>24839846 >>24839858 >>24840221
>>24838937
This is getting out of hand! Now, there are two of them!
Anonymous No.24839810 [Report] >>24840183
>>24839805
>wolfe fans think plagiarising philippe druillet is impressive
Anonymous No.24839846 [Report] >>24839850 >>24839855 >>24839859 >>24839861
>>24839805
can you post more of that artist's stuff? only print shop stickers and shit come up from a search.
Anonymous No.24839850 [Report] >>24840221
>>24839846
Anonymous No.24839855 [Report] >>24840221
>>24839846
.
Anonymous No.24839857 [Report]
I love the implied/alluded/ambiguous elements of these books because it feels more engaging. It's like a way to have your cake and eat it too by making the reader think rather than adding lengthy exposition.

I read a Stephen King book between BotNS and BotLS and it was complete whiplash. Everything is explained and nothing is unclear.
Anonymous No.24839858 [Report]
>>24839805
Now imagine having this as a giant poster in your house and having to explain it to guests
Anonymous No.24839859 [Report]
>>24839846
..
Anonymous No.24839861 [Report] >>24839896 >>24840221
>>24839846
....
Anonymous No.24839867 [Report]
I like that these pictures make absolutely no sense unless you have full context
Anonymous No.24839871 [Report]
>>24831740
As great as he was for his day typhon was largely full of shit. His comically undignified deaths were very fitting
Anonymous No.24839880 [Report] >>24839884 >>24839931 >>24839934 >>24840002 >>24840020 >>24840187 >>24840368
>>24829269 (OP)
What was her problem?
Anonymous No.24839883 [Report] >>24839901
>names a character dorkass
That is all. I have nothing of value to contribute.
Anonymous No.24839884 [Report]
>>24839880
She has to listen to her daddy/lover Abaia. Sad! But at least she gets to swim between the stars.
Anonymous No.24839896 [Report] >>24839907 >>24839912 >>24839929 >>24839996
>>24839861
Ive always wondered is jolenta actually inhumanely hot or would she is some sort of ultra bogged platic surgery nightmare that the very weird people of the future find irresistable due to weird standards
Anonymous No.24839901 [Report] >>24840320
>>24839883
She was an absoljte dork and she had a cute little hiney. Wolfe is an advanced read and you really gotta be able to read between the lines to catch all the esoteric references
Anonymous No.24839907 [Report]
>>24839896
I wonder if it was surgery + some potion effect it would have on those around her. So once the potion wears off you see her as a bogged monstrosity.
Anonymous No.24839912 [Report]
>>24839896
I think there's no significant difference between the two
Anonymous No.24839916 [Report] >>24839933
ZAMN!
Anonymous No.24839921 [Report] >>24847135
>>24839534
My new dog chomped mine. Little fuckers lucky he so cute.
Anonymous No.24839928 [Report]
>>24829269 (OP)
Need 7ft tall exultant gf
Anonymous No.24839929 [Report]
>>24839896
IIRC she's described as having an exaggerated appearance, to the point I think the author was meant it to be taken comically, but she'd fit right in with today's insta-thots.
Anonymous No.24839931 [Report]
>>24839880
She is a literal demon
Anonymous No.24839933 [Report]
>>24839916
>That we are capable of being only what we are remains our unforgivable sin
Anonymous No.24839934 [Report]
>>24839880
The way this is drawn is really weird, as though her neck terminates in a ball sack
Anonymous No.24839944 [Report]
>>24838965
I enjoyed fifth head. Started wizard knight but havnt been reading much lately so i cant give it any sort of review
Anonymous No.24839996 [Report]
>>24839896
I mean, her thighs are so fat that she couldn't walk without chaffing them. That and, as she died, there were metal rod and shit revealed from inside her.
I like to imagine that she was like pic related, something that grabbed eyes the way a fiery trainwreck does.
Anonymous No.24839999 [Report]
>wizard knight series huh, so what are the books called?
>Wizard
>Knight
Anonymous No.24840002 [Report] >>24840005 >>24840011
>>24839880
Am only on one read of BotNS, but I still don't know what the fuck is the deal with the cthulu people.
Anonymous No.24840005 [Report] >>24841276
>>24840002
They're maybe-alien underwater demons who have mind-controlled all of Asia (but geographically in North America? Even if Urth isn't Earth) and now seek to control the rest of the world, of course
Anonymous No.24840011 [Report] >>24840019
>>24840002
It sounds like a large portion of humanity is stuck under the waves and enslaved by the alien Megatherians. They rule the Ascians as the council of seventeen. Their explicit goal is to stop the coming of the new sun, but I have a feeling that is not the full picture.
Anonymous No.24840014 [Report]
>>24829431
He shaved Baldanders.
Anonymous No.24840019 [Report] >>24840029
>>24840011
I don't think humanity is under the waves
Anonymous No.24840020 [Report] >>24841974
>>24839880
>hey kid, wanna /ss/?
Anonymous No.24840029 [Report] >>24840046 >>24840048 >>24840066
>>24840019
Perhaps not but these are the quotes that weigh on it:
From Claw:
“We watch the giant because he grows. In that he is like us, and
like our father-husband, Abaia. Eventually he must come to the
water, when the land can bear him no longer. But you may come
now, if you will. You will breathe—by our gift—as easily as you
breathe the thin, weak wind here, and whenever you wish you shall
return to the land and take up your crown. This river Cephissus
flows to Gyoll, and Gyoll to the peaceful sea. There you may ride
dolphin-back through current-swept fields of coral and pearl. My
sisters and I will show you the forgotten cities built of old, where a
hundred trapped generations of your kin bred and died when they
had been forgotten by you above.” This is Juturna speaking to Severian.
From Urth:
"We don't number the years." She shrugged. "But you said
we weren't human, and we're as human as you. We're the
Other People, the folk of the Great Lords who dwell in the sea
and underground. Now, please, I've answered your questions,
so answer mine. How did you know?" This is Idas speaking to Severian.
Anonymous No.24840046 [Report] >>24840061
>>24840029
I think she was just trying to trick severian
Anonymous No.24840048 [Report]
>>24840029
You're right I had forgotten about the underwater cities
Anonymous No.24840061 [Report]
>>24840046
>trick
Whatever, nerd. I'll be riding dolphin-back with my giant women, landlubber.
Anonymous No.24840066 [Report] >>24840077 >>24841984
>>24840029
But then wouldn't they want Severian to bring the new sun since in doing so he floods the earth again?
Anonymous No.24840077 [Report] >>24840104
>>24840066
That's the weird thing about it. Severian sees the future where he fails and it's a frozen wasteland with humanity evacuated off Urth. The common people say the coming of the new sun will wither the Megatherians. But Baldanders at the end of Urth says that those below the sea will live. Severian even seems to see the Megatherians after the flood happens and he certainly sees Juturna after. So maybe them opposing Severian was just a scheme to help him succeed? Who knows?
Anonymous No.24840104 [Report]
>>24840077
This is a good portion from Urth that may shed more light on it, too:
"What's your name? I've never known it."

"Juturna. I want to save you...not earlier. Save all of you."

Valeria hissed, "When has Abaia sought our good?"

"Always. He might have destroyed you..."

For the space of six breaths she could not continue, but I
motioned Valeria and the rest to silence.

"Ask your husband. In a day, or a few days. He's tried to
tame you instead. Catch Catodon...cast out his conation. What
good? Abaia would make of us a great people."

I was reminded then of what Famulimus had asked me when I met
her first: "Is all the world a war of good and bad? Have you
not thought it might be something more?" And I felt myself
upon the marches of a nobler world, where I should know
what it might be. Master Malrubius had led me from the
jungles of the north to Ocean speaking of hammer and anvil,
and it seemed to me also that I sensed an anvil here. He had
been an aquastor, like those who had fought for me in Yesod,
created from my mind; thus he had believed, as I had, that
the undine had saved me because I would be a torturer and
an Autarch. It might be that neither he nor the undine were
wholly wrong.
Anonymous No.24840183 [Report] >>24840192 >>24841064
>>24839810
While the Druillet influences are obvious I think there are also considerable proportions of Russ Nicholson in there, I don't think you can call it plagiarism.
Anonymous No.24840187 [Report]
>>24839880
Being too heavy to walk on land mainly.
Anonymous No.24840192 [Report] >>24840224 >>24841064
>>24840183
The guy you're responding to is baiting. It's his modus operandi in Wolfe threads.
Anonymous No.24840215 [Report]
>>24829431
bussin
Anonymous No.24840221 [Report]
>>24839805
>>24839850
>>24839855
>>24839861
ooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Anonymous No.24840224 [Report] >>24841064
>>24840192
Oh! Bummer.
Anonymous No.24840229 [Report] >>24840276
>rapes everyone
>eats his gfs brains
>gets a childs family killed
>gets child killed later on

hes a piece of shit desu
Anonymous No.24840276 [Report]
>>24840229
Well look at mr. Perfect over here, being all judgy.
Anonymous No.24840312 [Report] >>24840324
Okay but why did Typhon have a boner?
Anonymous No.24840320 [Report]
>>24839901
God damn I want a Dorcas so bad
Anonymous No.24840324 [Report]
>>24840312
Morning wood
Anonymous No.24840368 [Report] >>24840375 >>24840415 >>24846690
>>24839880
What's Gene Wolfe's big death with giant women? He did this in the Knight Wizard as well
Anonymous No.24840375 [Report] >>24840401
>>24840368
He has big men as well
Anonymous No.24840401 [Report] >>24840409
>>24840375
For you
Anonymous No.24840409 [Report]
>>24840401
>What happens if I take off that mask?
>You will be profoundly excruciated
>You're as tall as an exultant
Anonymous No.24840415 [Report]
>>24840368
Part niphilim reference and part reference to that one Cugel story.
Anonymous No.24840578 [Report] >>24841135
Explaining these books to someone else makes me sound like a lunatic

>Ok so this guy is looking for some guy, but he's actually a spirit in that guy's body while refusing to acknowledge it, and his bird also has the spirit of a digital God in it, and when he dreams he transports everyone around him to a dream world where they take on the appearance of their spirit and there are these leech vampires who are actually humans in despair and
Anonymous No.24840580 [Report]
Also if you're in these threads and you haven't read all the books then get out because you will inevitably be spoiled
Anonymous No.24840699 [Report]
>>24839545
I'm blessed to have found the copy you are talking about at a local thrift store for 3 dollars. I still think it is my best find yet.
Anonymous No.24840711 [Report] >>24840893
Are you upping your style, /lit/?
Anonymous No.24840893 [Report] >>24840949 >>24840953 >>24842180
>>24840711
Who the fuck is this?
Anonymous No.24840949 [Report]
>>24840893
Me
Anonymous No.24840953 [Report]
>>24840893
That's Severian of course :)
Anonymous No.24841064 [Report]
>>24840183
>>24840224
>While the Druillet influences are obvious I think there are also considerable proportions of Russ Nicholson in there, I don't think you can call it plagiarism.
It's openly plagiarising philippe druillet and wolfe fans think it impressive
Just like they think their book series with plagiarises vance is impressive
>>24840192
Not an argument
Anonymous No.24841078 [Report] >>24841116
Person discovers that authors don't live in a vacuum and draw ideas from others
Anonymous No.24841116 [Report]
>>24841078
There's a thin line between homage/inspiration and plagiarism and wolfe crosses it
Anonymous No.24841135 [Report]
>>24840578
>so uh this neighbor vanishing person frees horn from a reptilian gang that has assimilated into the human population to feed on humans like cattle and teleports in this floating light and giant black sword and he cleans the sewer...and uh..all the while misses his one armed babe of a sea creature that came from mother monster
Anonymous No.24841158 [Report] >>24841170
Short Sun has such bad covers, they did my man Wolfe so dirty
Anonymous No.24841170 [Report] >>24841175
>>24841158
toenail head godling on whorl's cover is really funny.
Anonymous No.24841175 [Report]
>>24841170
better than having to read this on public transport
Anonymous No.24841276 [Report] >>24841279 >>24841280 >>24841380
>>24840005
Why do you think the Ascians are Asians? My read is that they're called ascians because they don't have shadows. They're north of The Commonwealth, so the border zone is near the equator. Its probably just what the people of the Commonwealth call them.
Anonymous No.24841279 [Report]
>>24841276
Correct, the Ascians are North Americans and the goldskins whose lands supposedly were conquered by Abaia and sank into the ocean are Asians. Jonas meets some of them in the waiting room of the House Absolute and speaks to them in Korean.
Anonymous No.24841280 [Report]
>>24841276
it's wolfe doing a double entendre of sorts. its root is latin for without shadows due to their proximity to the equator, but it also resembles "asian" and is an indictment of their culture/government, even though the area is former usa.
Anonymous No.24841380 [Report]
>>24841276
I always thought they were North Americas after some communist revolution a million year back, and have evolved their language in that way as well as their government.
Anonymous No.24841531 [Report]
>>24834801
>10 "sun" books
there are 13 tho

fifth head of cerberus - 1
new sun - 4
urth of the new sun - 1
long sun - 4
short sun - 3
Anonymous No.24841560 [Report]
>Krait
>Jahlee
>Fava
Anonymous No.24841840 [Report] >>24842041
Was the last part after the alien abduction confusing for anyone else? I feel like Severian just didn’t tell half of the promises he made to the reader that he would clarify (he even admits it) and the whole time loop thing just makes everything more confusing as well as ending in a weird spot. Does Urth clarify things?
Anonymous No.24841974 [Report]
>>24840020
Yes please
Anonymous No.24841984 [Report] >>24842267
>>24840066
If i recall correctly the issue is Agi and Erebus are so big and mountenuss the reshaping of the land will tear them apart too. Plus they got a pretty good thing going with their underwater kingdom and giant above ground 1984+ empire. Its been a while since i read new sun so i could be way off.
My big question for those who finished all the way to short sun is whats their connection to the mother and to monster Scylla and even more how is she connected to Typhons supposedly deceased daughter?
Anonymous No.24842041 [Report]
>>24841840
Urth goes into great detail about many, many things to the point that some might consider it gratuitous. It's an entirely different Severian who is more aware of his place in the world and able/willing to explain things to the reader. I think it's definitely worth reading, but it feels way different.
Anonymous No.24842049 [Report] >>24842158
>>24829269 (OP)
How does one walk through the corridors of time? What the hell does that even mean?
Anonymous No.24842158 [Report] >>24842215
>>24842049
It's literally just time travel
Anonymous No.24842180 [Report]
>>24840893
I think it's Purn on Yesod.
Anonymous No.24842215 [Report] >>24842230 >>24843022
>>24842158
Yeah man I get that, but how does walking act as time travel? Do you have to do a little jig as you walk down a hall way or something?
Anonymous No.24842230 [Report]
>>24842215
Time travel isn't done in some kind of TARDIS-like machine. There are portals, or corridors, that lead to other times. One travels by walking through them.
The first time this happens is when Severian enters the Atrium of Time. Then he does it again in the botanic gardens. Some unearthly power (probably the Hierodules) have opened these corridors all over the place, presumably for their own use.
Anonymous No.24842267 [Report]
>>24841984
Their connection is that they are the same species. Silk-Horn calls the Mother and Great Scylla on Urth sisters. The character index says they are akin. Cilinia, the Scylla of the Long Sun, is presumably human* and told Silk-Horn that she secretly swore allegiance to Great Scylla on Urth as rebellion against her father Typhon. That is also presumably why she chose the name Scylla as her god name. In Long Sun, Cilinia/Scylla told Auk that on Urth she had really gotten into diving. That's probably how she met the Great Scylla.

*I say presumably because there is some uncertainty of Typhon's origins. He tells Severian he wasn't born in the sense that he (Severian) meant by born. Plus, he has psychic powers.
Anonymous No.24842332 [Report] >>24842350
So why did Scylla have to visit her tomb on Urth
Anonymous No.24842350 [Report] >>24846693
>>24842332
To die. To be at rest. There was nothing left for her to do but be stuck in Oreb and she didn't seem particularly happy.
Anonymous No.24842378 [Report] >>24842387 >>24842395
I love the Ascian's Group of Seventeen story
Anonymous No.24842387 [Report]
>>24842378
For the Armies of the Populace, defeat is the springboard of victory, and victory the ladder to further victory.
Anonymous No.24842395 [Report] >>24842427
>>24842378
How in-universe do they translate that? It’s pretty crazy how much they can extract from what’s essentially just a series of Little Red Book quotations.
Anonymous No.24842427 [Report]
>>24842395
You just get an idea of the vibes
Anonymous No.24843022 [Report]
>>24842215
The concept of time as a dimension, in the same way as length or width, is as old as time travel fiction. Imagine there's a secret direction you can move in that isn't forward, backward, up, down, left, right, or anything in between, and that if you travel in this direction you'll travel through time. That's what walking through the corridors of time means.
Anonymous No.24843269 [Report]
Behind our efforts let there be found our efforts
Anonymous No.24843274 [Report]
The citizen renders to the populace what is due to the populace. What is due to the populace? Everything
Anonymous No.24844050 [Report] >>24844845 >>24844905
Potto was so based.
Anonymous No.24844825 [Report] >>24844890 >>24846326
>>24829451
He was born into it dumbass.
Anonymous No.24844845 [Report] >>24844875
>>24844050
Shoot the calde
Anonymous No.24844875 [Report]
>>24844845
the concept of the villains being trapped in the room with silk, not the other way around as they think, is so hilarious looking back at long sun.
Anonymous No.24844890 [Report]
>>24844825
He literally becomes a freelance executioner after leaving the guild, and doesn't care whether he kills the innocent or guilty.
>To the Demiurge alone belongs all justice
Anonymous No.24844905 [Report] >>24845071
>>24844050
He was based, but for me it was Lemur. I thought the Ayuntamiento in-general were pretty based. I thought it was pretty funny when Scylla was possessing Chenille and they went to the Ayuntamiento's private deluxe sacred window for her, and she finds out that in all those years they haven't offered even one sacrifice to her and she mega-seethes about it and wants them killed. I just love how little they thought of the gods. But yeah, Lemur and Quetzal were two of my favorites from Long Sun.
Anonymous No.24845071 [Report] >>24845096
>>24844905
Quetzal was a bit of a snake heheheh
Anonymous No.24845096 [Report] >>24846799
>>24845071
He was a real one. His very last act in life was trying to screw over everyone who trusted him so his people could feed off of them. Based.
Anonymous No.24846315 [Report]
Horn > Severian > Silk
Anonymous No.24846326 [Report]
>>24844825
>I was just following orders
not an argument. he should've known better and been better.
Anonymous No.24846690 [Report]
>>24840368
Hes was a fellow man of taste
Anonymous No.24846693 [Report] >>24846812
>>24842350
How much of Oreb's personality was Syclla? I loved that little nigga
Anonymous No.24846799 [Report]
>>24845096
Quetzal, knowing the secret of the inhumi, simply sought to bring religion (and thus antinatalism) to them.
Anonymous No.24846812 [Report]
>>24846693
Like half? If you read the short story the Night Chough you get in insight on when Oreb is speaking, and when Scylla is speaking because half the time it says something like "Oreb spoke, but didn't intend to" meaning Scylla was speaking through him.
Anonymous No.24846820 [Report] >>24846880 >>24848250
>>24832938
>>24833037
>>24833345
>rape
Wait what. Did i miss some shit, because i dont recall anything relating to rape.
Anonymous No.24846880 [Report] >>24846899
>>24846820
Yes you missed every thread on this book that has ever been created.
Anonymous No.24846899 [Report]
>>24846880
Oh, good riddance then.
Anonymous No.24847135 [Report]
>>24839545
>>24839697
>>24839921
I got a sealed copy that comes with the poster for $140
Anonymous No.24847184 [Report] >>24847268
>>24832938
Most women dont understand the difference between an author and a character they created
Anonymous No.24847268 [Report]
>>24847184
or context. look at the fucking world severian exists in. it's near lawlessness.
Anonymous No.24847538 [Report] >>24847564 >>24849729 >>24850818 >>24851040
Why did the princess in Wizard Knight go into great detail of how she was going to jerk off the giant king after they were married? Genuinely, what the fuck did Wolfe mean by this?
Anonymous No.24847564 [Report]
>>24847538
He meant that size differene is the chad fetish

See also: Severian talking about how he's too big and hurts Dorcas when they fuck
Anonymous No.24848250 [Report]
>>24846820
Feminists tried reading Wolfe. Predictably, it didn't turn out well.
Anonymous No.24849729 [Report]
>>24847538
I will now read The Wizard Knight.
Anonymous No.24850818 [Report] >>24851024
>>24847538
>Why did the princess in Wizard Knight go into great detail of how she was going to jerk off the giant king after they were married?
She did it to make everyone uncomfortable. Everyone in the company was trying NOT to think about it, so she brought it up in exquisite detail just to make all those brave knights, who were explicitly dedicated to her safety, nauseated with guilt. That's the entire point. It's disgusting, degrading, she's probably going to die giving birth to a half-giant, and she wanted to rub it in their faces.

Her strategy worked too because it made that one knight go crazy and murder the king.
Anonymous No.24851024 [Report]
>>24850818
>exquisite detail
Freudian slip?
Anonymous No.24851040 [Report] >>24851508
>>24847538
That wasn't her, it was the invisible witch. Idnn would certainly never condone the murder of her beloved husband.
Anonymous No.24851508 [Report]
>>24851040
Is the witch in the room with us now? May we see it?