Thread 23184666

30 years later, how overrated it really is?

Bot post.

>>23184666 (OP)
strong start that devolves into huge mess, a lot like SEED I guess. Also works better if you don't try to understand the fucking politics in the series or the state of the world in general.

Boring and mediocre

It's good for like the first 15-20 episodes

>>23184666 (OP)
it touches on subjects that, while being gundam tropes, aren't REALLY addressed as well in any other series imo. including:

>pilotless drones and the impacts of drone warfare
>eventually realizing that even better than drones are drones piloted remotely en masse
>the duality of war for peace
>the consciousness expanding powers of a human/machine interface and how;
>said interface feeds human mind possible futures, and how the human mind interprets/understands/flips the fuck out because of this


like we get a LOT of stuff going on in Wing that most people just gloss over, including Qattre destroying entire colonies lmao.

but really, the drone stuff with the mobile dolls is all great, and honestly some of the most currently relevant story you'll find in any gundam series. then you have the consciousness expanding ZERO system, which drives multiple pilots insane by feeding them "too much data" essentially and gives them information about all possible futures, and they aren't ready for that shit.

this leads to some characters thinking the machine is TELLING them the future (which it is...at least all POSSIBLE futures), but they don't realize they are many paths, like Treize. Treize is convinced that what Epyon has shown him IS the future, not just A future. that is, basically until Hero "refuses" to kill him. that's when he realizes he has another future, with Wufei.

Hero is able to realize, maybe due to experiencing MULTIPLE different ZERO systems from multiple suits (zechs too) that the ZERO system isn't just showing him the future, but A POSSIBLE future, and it is still up to HIM and his free will to determine which future he's going to be living in.

that's all pretty much like....directly stated in the anime, which goes a LOT further than just "oh here's a newtype moment and uh....i dunno they see time or something, and now they 'understand each other' and one dies or something'.

>>23184807
it shows them their death
that's why they freak out

>>23184666 (OP)
overrated? these days I seem more people shitting on the show than praising it

Considering every Gundam that has come out since Wing has been much worse, and don't act like they aren't, Wing is not bad at all.

>>23184862
Based

Wing is great
People only shit on it because it aired on toonami like 20+ years ago

>>23184666 (OP)
It's underrated. It's UC slop that is overrated especially Zeta

>>23184807
Wing was ahead of it time when it came to discussing drone warfare and its ethics/implications

>>23184666 (OP)
It would be much better if it devoted an episode in the first 4 to explain the relationship between The Earth Alliance, The Specials > Oz > Romefeller Foundation and specifically Treiz's position within and to Romefeller. They don't really drop enough breadcrumbs until after it stops being relevant.

>>23184843
yes, all possible deaths, in fact, given they can process it.

>>23184666 (OP)
1st Episode "I'll Kill YOU!" last episode fails to do that. Meh I liked it when I was young but it's not that great.

>>23185851
The first 10 episodes are so fast paced, it's like they thought they'd be writing the entite series with that pacing. The Earth Alliance/Specials/OZ/Treize relationship is explained in a random cutaway scene where the narrator tells you about it in one of the early episodes.

How do you turn Relena's invitation to her birthday party down without tearing up her envelope and threatening her?

>>23184843
>Everyone freaks out when they see the myriad ways they might die
>Heero believes he's a dead man walking and just goes "Neat"
There's a good bit of irony in the fact that the only people who can successfully pilot machines that show you the future are people who subconsciously wish to die, and in piloting said machine, are not allowed to do so.

>>23188104
heero still freaked out, he just went on killing rampages until someone stopped him or when everyone else is dead

>>23184807
>like we get a LOT of stuff going on in Wing that most people just gloss over, including Qattre destroying entire colonies lmao.

He blew up an Oz Space Station and an abandoned colony, it's a bit of a drop in the bucket.

people love to give wing credit for "drone warfare" but automated soldiers is hardly the same thing as remote control flying vehicles

wing was all about the "when war no longer involves lives it is no longer beautiful and to be feared", I don't see you fucks praising Wing for saying that people need to continue dying in war or it becomes a bad thing

>>23188000
just ghost
that's what I always did

>>23188189
yea but he mostly killed soldiers in an occupied village
Quarters killed an entire space station and colony

>>23188258
they start out as automated robots and then later zechs and Dorothy use the zero system helmet to control them remotely

>>23188258
As we've seen in Ukraine, even remotely piloted drones work wonders when it comes to stripping away the humanity of those involved.

Happy 30th anniversary of Gundam becoming a toy commercial for autistic adults

Its fine but quite juvenile compared to Tomino Gundam. Wing glosses over the themes it brings up and muddies them with romanticism about soldiers and war. Its much more concerned with making its characters look cool or heroic than telling a meaningful story, its themes are just set-dressing to make the characters fights and one-liners sound more profound than they really are. Treize and Wufei are awful characters that spout pro-war, pro-authoritarian ideals completely unchallenged by the other characters, Releena even gives up her pacifism in Endless Waltz. Wing glorifies war and soldiers; the TV series insinuates warfare ennobles the human spirit and Endless Waltz frames peace as something that must be gained with ones own strength, and in this way it justifies war by framing it as a test of virtue for humans to prove that they are "worthy" of peace. Wing is unironically pro-war in the sense that it deems war necessary for peace.

>>23188872
Its much better than what we have now and what we will have in the future if it keeps up.

Can it be it was all so simple then?

Who was in the wrong here?

https://youtu.be/57qtyC24D5o

Too much plot for too few episodes. Potential interesting side characters keep vanishing.

>>23184666 (OP)
Really fucked and improved by the pacing being broken apart by the combination of two series, yet it also somehow feels incredibly breakneck and actionesque as a result, which oddly works for the aesthetics of Wing in general

Pilots were stupid. Back the alliance up over OZ and the show would have ended way sooner.

>>23184666 (OP)
I remember turning this on and then turning it off when I heard the fucking awful dub. Was a dubfag at the time and now I'm not. Maybe I should look into it again

>>23196658
The Gundam pilots did assist the Alliance occasionally against OZ, but the Alliance was too big to protect with just 5 Gundams, and OZ was also expanding into space at the same time to make deals with the colonies against the Gundams, so they were getting outmaneuvered not just politically but in literal 3 dimensions at the same time. Still, helping the Alliance resist OZ longer just keeps them from dying, it doesn't really stop OZ. The Alliance was part of the problem of colonies being oppressed in the first place, OZ was just a specific target because they wanted revenge for OZ assassinating Heero Yuy the politician.

Killing Treize would have been the absolute fastest way to end OZ's major ambitions, but OZ never had one single HQ and Treize was always on the move. The whole New Edwards boondoggle happened because Treize intentionally leaked his location which lured all the Gundam pilots there to try to kill him but he misled them into killing the Alliance leaders on an OZ shuttle while Treize slipped away. The only other thing the Gundam pilots could do would have been to attack Romefeller, but no one knew they were secretly sponsoring OZ to overthrow the Alliance until it already happened.

Fuck, Heero should have just taken the Wing Gundam into space so he can use the buster rifle to vaporize the OZ lunar base and barge battlestation like 20 episodes earlier than it took for both of them to get fucked, that would have been the most effective thing anyone could do sort of killing Treize and Tsubarov/Dermail. It'd stall Libra's construction, it would have totally messed up the Virgo mass production plans, and prevent White Fang from rising up due to the shitty world situation. It would save the characters a shitton of traveling all over the world chasing a lot of nothing, but it also requires them to have inside knowledge of everything their enemies were planning to begin with.

>>23196735
>most effective thing anyone could do sort of killing Treize
Wufei could have easily just sank his ship but he let his pride get the best of him and started bouncing off the walls like a sperg

https://youtu.be/RPYELqfVdgo

It's a bit slow but liked it a lot

>>23184666 (OP)
>>23184682
>>23184684
this the star war second trilogy of gundam.

Pure big brain political moments that fly over you head.

>>23184666 (OP)
No celebration at all. It's dead in the water.
This proves my point that Bandai should sue Katoki into oblivion for holding the main Wing IP hostage. By Japanese entertainment logic, copyright infringement of Katoki's nature should warrant industry blacklisting

>>23184862
This

>>23184666 (OP)
People hate on it too much with no reason. On the other hand, X gets too much of a pass.

>>23197114
This scene is masterful
>Shows us Treize is not just larping at the noble soldier bit by putting his life on the line without flinching
>Shows us Wufei's hotheadedness is his greatest weakness and sets his character arc in motion
>also shows us Wufei won't just bitch out and kill Treize after a loss in a tantrum
>shows us Trowa has the moral character to respect what Wufei's loss meant and also not just blast Treize after the fight
>cements the idea that Treize can trust the Gundam pilots to behave in a noble manner which sets up his eventual split from Romefeller

>>23200538
Treize mind broke Wufei for life

>>23184666 (OP)
They fight the Rothschilds in this one

>>23200790
I've always taken their last fight as Treize realizing he was basically doing the same thing to Wufei as he was to Lady Une. His mere presence in the world was driving Wufei crazy with a desire for revenge. Rather than see another "friend" shed their nobility like Zechs was doing with the whitefang shit. He instead just on the fly choses to deny Wufei his satisfaction and close that door forever before Wufei could go down that path. Of course Wufei being a moody dipshit doesn't actually smarten up until basically the same thing happens with Heero in EW.

>>23200810
based

>>23199958
How is he holding it hostage?

>>23188258
>I don't see you fucks praising Wing for saying that people need to continue dying in war or it becomes a bad thing
Because that's not what it was saying? It was talking about the problems caused by stripping away the consequences of war.

>>23201668
Okay, you tell me what those problems were? It was something along the lines of war not having consequences so it became a game? Or that when war is automated, it becomes cold and devoid of something like feeling or meaning?

>>23201815
The scientists pretty much say it on the nose when they first see the mobile dolls.

But it's true that a lot of Wing is based on the idea that people need to understand violence in order to attain peace which is a pretty brutal message. Though Wing makes it a point to honor the soldiers because of how far they're willing to go to limit the sacrifices to just themselves in order to protect civilians. An example is when OZ is about to fire Barge at a colony led by the Earth Alliance's space remnants (Septum's son and father), they evacuate the colony and then say that this'll mark the first time that a colony has been destroyed in war and that this sacrifice is necessary in order for the colonies to understand that by arming themselves, they're further encouraging this. Zechs takes this idea overboard in the end and decides that the Earth and its inhabitants must suffer massive damage in order to understand what war really means while Treize plans to sacrifice himself so that Zechs can "win" against the Earth forces creating and end to the war. Though whether Treize thought that Zechs was just bluffing about destroying the Earth or if he believed that the Zechs was serious but had full faith that the Gundam pilots would be able to stop him is unknown.

>>23184666 (OP)
Wing is in top 3 worst gundams of all time(with ZZ and G-Reco), anyone who disagrees are nostalgiafags. Go ahead and try to watch it today, it's genuinely unbearable.

>>23201933
>But it's true that a lot of Wing is based on the idea that people need to understand violence in order to attain peace which is a pretty brutal message
That really isn't that different from "death is critical to war because war without dying or risking life is inherently bad" or "peace obtained through oppression by enemies is worse than peace obtained through risking one's life"

>>23201962
I'm rewatching it right now

It's great

https://youtu.be/GcFg3xOsR_M

https://youtu.be/WD2346AopZA

https://youtu.be/L2LwpNaZzTA

>>23184678
I actually don't think the start is even that strong, the first couple of episodes are just rough.

>>23184666 (OP)
How to still enjoy this after knowing what's written in Frozen Tearslop? Is it even considered canon? Everything sounds so stupid.

>>23201638
Name one time you saw anything related to Wing published outside of G-Unit side stories, FT or GoL. All Wing content now seems to require Katoki's involvement or approval before Bandai can roll it out. He never owned Wing

>>23184666 (OP)

Soundtrack is fucking glorious, jazzy and atmospheric as hell. Extremely comfy and enjoyable.

>>23184666 (OP)
When was the last time anybody overrated it? Even Toonamifags forgot about Wing.

>>23202509
Probably because his designs are very popular? Maybe they have their idea of what they want to do with Wing so hiring someone else wouldn't make sense. They could be working on something behind the scenes. I want to say that Frozen Teardrop possibly damaged the brand enough to stop them from producing it but Katoki's redesigns are still pointing towards the suits in it. But if we don't get any announcements this year, we'll probably never get anything.

>>23201962
I rewatch it every few years. Still enjoy it.

Couldn't pay me to ever rewatch Witch of IBO

>>23200790
I cant wait Wufei reaction to Sulleta being a lesbo and female Gundam pilot in SRW Y

>>23202988
If you think that’s going to be anything, you don’t understand Wufei

>>23184666 (OP)
Better than Sneed.

>>23202929
I wasn't talking about his designs specifically

>>23202988
Sexist piece of shit.

>>23184862
I honestly like Thunderbolt.

>>23188872
It was always a toy commercial. The brief five seconds of it’s existence where it could have broken away from that evaporated once they realized people would buy model kits of the Zaku.

Does Glory of Losers substantially improve Wing’s story at all?

>>23208958
It adds some more context to things early on so some of the later plot points don't feel like they come out of nowhere (Treize building Epyon). There's a few plot points that get changed completely (Heero kills Relena's father in collateral damage when he kills the Earth Alliance's peace ambassadors instead of Treize and Lady Une being responsible for his assassination). But it cuts out the story of pretty much all of the one off episodes in Wing like Zechs's mission with Alex and Mueller or Wu Fei helping the village with Sally Po. Overall, I think it's a mixed bag, the pacing is still pretty rushed like the original show but harder to follow in my opinion since there's no audio. I think it works more as a companion piece to Wing rather than a complete substitute.

>make a big deal out of how you can't build a Gundam on Earth because you need to make it out of gundamium (lol) which you can only make in space
>later some noble builds a Gundam alone while under house arrest
how does anyone above 12 take this shit seriously? is this all just American nostalgiafags?

Recently started it and gotta say, awful introduction to main male and female lead. I want to punch both in the face. Heero is bland as all hell and like none of Relena's decision making makes any sense. Heero tries to kill Relena, gets stopped in his tracks and she immediately comes to his defense.

>>23209280
he had outside help that imported the materials from space or something

>>23209628
yea relena starts out pretty retarded she would have gotten killed if it wasn't for duo/doctor j/noin etc constantly saving her ass (heero even saves her life a few times much to his initial frustration)

>>23209280
Heero destroys a ship transporting Gundanium in like episode 4 or something and takes the material for himself. Treize making a suit 30 episodes later isn't farfetched.

>>23184666 (OP)
If you treat it like a comedy it’s amazing.

>>23209628
>oh so this psychopathic war criminal wants to kill me?
>OMG I NEED HIS DICK INSIDE OF ME RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!
Relena is a realistic portrayal of your average woman decision making.

>>23210537
it's a great show. I laugh at all the intentional jokes AND unintentional ones too.

https://youtu.be/s7SloE7AjqI

>>23210545
>>23210545
indeed. watching heero kick a medic in the face and then steal his ambulance made her soak her panties.

>>23213523
The year is after colony 195

>>23202525
'Wings of a Boy That Killed Adolescence' still just pops into my head at regular intervals and refuses to leave. Proper banger
https://youtu.be/zrFcHt-Wjx4

>>23184666 (OP)
Overwatch 2 x Gundam Wing | Gameplay Trailer Premieres Apr 28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZoYO4hUYUk

Thoughts?

>>23184666 (OP)
Wing feels like Dougram if it was made by a schizophrenic chuuni

>>23213925
normalfaggot GARBAGE

>>23213852
ya it has some bangers

>>23213925
weird crossover
most of the zoomers that play over watch probably didn't watch wing on toonami or are too young to remember

>>23201962
MAHQ is full of faggots and losers that circlejerk it to 08th MS Team.

>>23215068
The characters in 08th are less annoying than 0083 but they still get on my nerves for some reason.

>>23202988
it's a 2025 game
he would be
>omg you are so valid and wholesome and piec and stronk unlike men. go gurl, women rules better than than men now I wish I was a based superior woman

The 30th anniversary of Wing got me thinking about Frozen Teardrop. It's written by the same guy who wrote the Wing TV series. Did decide to just say "fuck it" to the end of Endless Waltz, or is it more of a loop hole since the story is set on Mars? Has the writer ever been asked?

Frozen Teardrop is nonsense

>>23184666 (OP)
It was pretty decent. Duo is my favorite Gundam character.

>>23184666 (OP)
Much better than Gundam Sneed.

>>23215708
https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11853

According to the author, FT isn't a sequel to the anime. It's a story that takes place in it's own version of Wing's universe. Events similar but not necessarily exactly like the anime took place.

FT retcons a bunch of stuff and a huge chunk of the story is a prequel about Treize and the politics of the various factions of the world.

That said, there aren't any Mobile Suits in FT. They're "Mars Suits" so yeah it's a loophole.

>>23226707
Relenas themes are actually pretty good
I like wing but it's not really a show that's good to marathon. Well maybe the first 10 or 15 episodes.

>>23226701
Seems like a huge splitting hair loophole.

>Mars Suits
Meh, that's like calling a car an automobile. Giant humanoid weapons, and things that are clearly Gundam. It's a retcon flat out.

The dude should just admit he wanted to make a sequel and ignore his old ending. I don't think anyone would have cared.

>>23201962
Replace ZZ and arguably G-Reco with your choice of 00, Zeta, Turn A, Re:Rise, and War in the Pocket. I'd include Victory in that list of options but Tomino already said that's the worst one so I don't get to argue that it's merely in competition for 2nd place.

>>23227109

If you actually read any part of the story, you would understand how it's not a retcon.

>>23184666 (OP)
It couldn't go beyond the time.

>>23213852
for me it's this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQhM4dqzSdw

I understand the significance of Relena's role in the series, but fucking hell every scene she's in makes me want to skip ahead to the next one.

>>23239241
Relena as a character is really weird.

It makes sense for the Gundam pilots to act the way they are given they're trained child soldiers, but even for this franchise the idea of a 15 year old doing everything she does in the show feels like stretches plausability. She also acts and talks more like a writer's mouthpiece rather than an actual character and it all comes across as preachy and contrived.

Halfway through the show Relena stops being an actual character (by giving up her impulsive tendencies to chase after Heero) and more an embodiment of the show's "message" about peace being something you have to fight for, and it makes it hard to empathize for her at all when everything constantly goes wrong for her.

>>23184666 (OP)
Not overrated at all.

>>23184807
>which goes a LOT further than just "oh here's a newtype moment and uh....i dunno they see time or something, and now they 'understand each other' and one dies or something'.
You don't understand Newtypes

>>23243345
I find this to generally be true. As somebody who hated Wing more than any other Gundam series until 2014, I respect Wing fans for admitting it’s mostly nostalgia or just liking cool robots. Wing does have some cool robots.

for me it is this scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLcsiYu35E4

>>23227468
Endless Waltz ends with a quote saying mobile suits and Gundams were never seen again. Mobile suits and Gundams are clearly seen again in Frozen Teardrop. How is it not a retcon?

>>23250727
those are called mars suits, not mobile suits

VIRGO MODEL/MSiA WHEN?

THE B-CLUB MODEL AND SD GASHAPON DON'T COUNT

>>23255753
I like when they go to the moon

Its dumb but has SOVLfvl designs and animation which is more than can be said for any other gundam in decades

Wing is a story about what happens to Soldiers when the war ends. Operation Meteor concludes when the Wing is destroyed, and the pilots are left without a cause (The Colonies are working with Oz) and with no backing. Hell it's the impetus for Wufei's entire character in EW "What happens to the Soldiers left behind when their battles 'end'"

It's why most of the show is the various pilots wandering all over trying to find SOMETHING to do, continuing their war in their own ways and seeing the ramifications of it, except, of course, Wufei, who has his conclusion in EW

nah, IBO was better.

>>23184666 (OP)
The people who think Wing is the best Gundam show ever are such a minority now I don't know if you can still call it overrated anymore.

Are all the subs dubtitles? Can't seem to find a decent release for wing with proper subs

>>23214408
Fanart proportions aside, I appreciate Relena's "raw beauty" design. Like if she wears makeup that actually makes her uglier.

>>23259449
Dubtitles are the only ones that exist. Well, maybe there are crabstick subs floating somewhere

>>23264431
Damn. At least they are correct for the most part, coulda been worse.

This is the first Gundam that makes me truly sad we couldn't have weekly /a/ threads for it, hilarious show.

>>23265541
>top-tier arrogant hot librarian character
>stuck simping for gay gigachad villain
Sunrise laughs at all of us.

>>23188104
Great post

>>23265739
>Gay
>Has a daughter
?

>>23265964
Lots of gay dudes have children.

>>23269327
Sexcraft

>>23266164
Maybe, but since when was it shown any character, including Treize, was gay outside of yaoi bait?

>>23269581
I mean look at him.

>>23269682
>sees Knightley gentleman who cares for his comrades to the point they will die for him
>Sees gay
Sounds more like insecurity on your part, anon

Still the best grunt MS ever.

>>23184666 (OP)
>overrated it really is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DctQORFeF4

it was great. cool and edgy but with fancy gundams like in g-fighter.

>>23272469
>AI heero
cursed

>>23272508
you can't really compare them one is an OVA and another a TV show but id say Endless Waltz is slightly better

>>23276453
sure, but 08th MS teams was better. I will agree G gundam and wing are better than any of the full nonOVA series that came out after Wing

>>23272508
>>23276555
08th MS fucking sucks.
Wing is superior and KINO!

>>23276559
08th MS team has some of the most kino fights in the whole series

>>23276560
08th MS only has one good fight (EZ-8 vs Gouf).

>>23276569
the ball fight in the beginning is good. I'm sure there are 1 or 2 other good fights. plus the EZ-8 vs Gouf is like a whole episode in a 12 episode show
0080 war in the pocket was also great, but it came out before wing

>>23269682
this is just code for you being a massive homofaggot who wants someone to be gay purely because you've got some wires crossed in your head. Stop masturbating for like 2 weeks at least and you will improve
>>23272502
I remember that being my impression of the show the first time around I watched it. Had they cut their run limit by like 8 episodes, rewritten some stuff to be a little tighter with a little more time for choreography, and used that budget for a little bit more detail in animation, I think Wing would have been a lot stronger. I still love it though, it's just a shame that the show sorta loses focus at the midway point for awhile before picking back up again towards the end

>>23184666 (OP)
In the bottom 3 Gundam shows along with Victory and ZZ.

>>23184852
It's having a bit of a resurgence as millennial nostalgia from the toonami block comes around.

just finished rewatching yesterday and holy hell does this thing fall apart around the time Epyon/Mobile Dolls/Relena's Wario shows up. I also didn't do myself any favor and went full nostalgia and watched the 90s english dub and forgot that every single voice actor was directed to be as monotone and flat as possible with the exception of Duo who's just Rattrapping his way through the whole show. Really the only thing really holding this thing up is the suit designs with Tallgeese being fucking aces. Not gonna bother with the later OVAs, I won't humor the decision to put feathery wings on a gundam. so fuckin stupid

I thought of watching it again.

Dorothy has sick wheels

>>23184678
seed doesn't start strong at all though, its shit from the word go

>>23184678
It's not that confusing. people switch sides a lot that's the only thing.

>>23184666 (OP)
Oh hey, a wing thread.
Watching this for the first time right now. I don't know if it's the 37 degree fever or what but holy fuck nothing makes sense. Why is Heero such an asshole? How does he constantly survive definitely fatal falls and explosions? Why do none of the protagonists co-operate with each other? Why does Lady Une and Trieze and basically everyone just flip flop on wanting their enemies dead/alive and what team they're on? Why does no one just kill all these prisoners they have on the moon especially when they specifically are ordered to/say its what they should do? That Tubarov guy decides to just... cut off their air? Not just shoot them or space them out an airlock? That's comic book villain tier retarded. How does Quatre just pull an entire gundam out of his ass to go blow up a colony? Why are the 5 scientists allowed to wander around unsupervised enough to repair not just one, but two Gundams to operational status? Oh god I could go on for hours...

>>23291860
pretty much everyone in wing is insane except for Duo
Just relax and enjoy the ride

>>23184862
00 was better

I actually like that everyone in wing has their own agenda. They're constantly switching sides and only team up with the other pilots when it suits their needs.

>>23291883
00 is just a worse version of Wing.

>>23291887
Strange way to spell "better"
At least 00 isn't so boring it makes you sleepy for at least half of its runtime

>>23291880
probably doesn't help I'm watching Ultraman Taro at the same time.

>>23291860
yeah idk if it was shit writing, lost in translation or intentionally confusing but wing's writing is just fucking terrible and confusing as shit. It's like parts of the plot meander and then suddenly go into turbo speed and they switch sides 20 times. I think it's only so beloved because it was the first gundam in the US and because the designs were so good.

gundam wing dares to ask the question "why would you shoot a man after throwing him out of a plane?"

>>23294889
so he can't dodge

>>23294869
the world building and politics need more focus. I guess in the beginning there's only one earth army called the alliance and they're the only ones with mechs and the space colonies dont have an army or mechs for some reason. there's also OZ which is a romefeller backed part of the alliance that takes over randomly and everyone is cool with that I guess except for the Treize Faction but they're only pissed because Treize hates mobile dolls and is put on house arrest because he wants to he a loser.

>>23297080
I could be wrong about this that's just what I remember

>>23298551
yea idk the way the world works in gundam wing is very unclear. I guess that's why torino likes to keep it simple with feds vs zeon

>>23298551
There's a throwaway line in episode 1 where somebody says only the Alliance has mobile suit tech, but for all we know they might just assume the Maganacs are made of stolen Leo parts or something. Or maybe Zechs never fought the Maganacs before.

>>23299682
Heero, Duo, Quatre, and Wufei were always the intended pilots for their Gundams according to their backstories, Heero was trained for years, there weren't other kids. Only Trowa wasn't, he just happened to be working as a mechanic on the project and was nearby when the original Trowa got murdered, and he offers to take the original's place.

As far as I can remember, it was the scientists who trained the kids and also rebelled against the plan. The creators of the Deathscythe and Sandrock told Duo and Quatre separately to take the Gundam to Earth and do whatever they wanted with it, to follow their hearts or something like that instead of sticking to the original plan to fight for the Barton Foundation's world domination.

>>23299734
>>23299742
Duo was the intended pilot. The Sweepers trained him how to pilot for a year. He tried to blow Deathscythe up when he learned what Operation Meteor was for, but G never intended on going through with it anyways and offered Deathscythe to Duo after he got caught. He pretended Duo stole it because Dekim Barton suspected he wasn't going to go through with Operation Meteor and was on his ass.
Wufei wasn't intended to pilot Shenlong. It was supposed to be his wife Meilan who was going to pilot it, but she got fucked up from G forces testing a Tallgeese prototype and killed herself rather than get captured by OZ.

>>23209280
>some noble
>literally the most powerful man alive with millions of fanatically loyal soldiers both on Earth and in the colonies who becomes or steps down from being the leader of the human race whenever he feels like
Anon, are you retarded? Treize constructing Epyon is perfectly feasible, especially since by that point Oz has captured and analyzed data on Wing Zero.


>>23184807
This is an overly simplistic way of viewing Treize's actions, I'd call it wrong.

>>23291860
>Why is Heero such an asshole? How does he constantly survive definitely fatal falls and explosions?
He's autistic. It's also suggested that Heero has been genetically modified to be a super soldier basically.

>Why do none of the protagonists co-operate with each other?
They do when appropriate, their missions and goals aren't set in stone, they are meant to decide what to do themselves.

>Why does Lady Une and Trieze and basically everyone just flip flop on wanting their enemies dead/alive and what team they're on?
At first Oz viewed the Gundams as enemies but Treize and Lady Une are inspired and fall in love with the heroism of the Gundams which causes them to reevaluate their philosophy. Combine this with the fact Romefeller proves to be a decadent shell masquerading as a superior ruling class alongside the soulless evil of the mobile dolls and the reasons for the split become obvious.

>Why does no one just kill all these prisoners they have on the moon especially when they specifically are ordered to/say its what they should do?
Because they're extremely valuable obviously, both the scientists and the pilots are one of a kind assets.

>That Tubarov guy decides to just... cut off their air? Not just shoot them or space them out an airlock? That's comic book villain tier retarded.
He was basically performing a small mutiny and ignoring the orders of his superiors. The rank and file barely tolerated him cutting off the oxygen, you're asking for too much here anon. Plus he never expected for lady Une to survive his betrayal and come back.

>How does Quatre just...
He's literally the family head of an ultra rich space tech and resources corporation. His family sheltered and hired the scientist who made his original Gundam, he finds and uses his leftover blueprints for the Zero.

>Why are the 5 s...
It's a big space station and half the soldiers are sympathetic to the Gundams or preparing for open rebellion.

>>23184666 (OP)
>30 years later, how overrated it really is?
Gundam Wing has a lot of problems but it's also very charming and aesthetic. It's not good but I like it anyway.

>>23299665
The Gundams were an entirely new type of mobile suit, the mobile suits used by those outside of the Alliance were based on the same Leo suits that everyone uses

>>23201962
I understood Wing better when I rewatched it as an adult. Series is good, but not the best.

IIRC wasn't there some fucky director change early on that screwed the show's pacing?

>>23265739
>>23265541

>>23299759
>Wufei wasn't intended to pilot Shenlong. It was supposed to be his wife Meilan
Im know about Wufei but why he called his Gundam Nataku?
Was Nataku nickname for his wife?
Man watched wing almost 10 years a go.

>>23302105
his wife's name was Nataku. He calls the gundam that to honor her memory.

>>23265541
>finished ep 25 - the one where Une dies
Pure kino. Didn't expect something this good out of the clownshow this started as

>>23308712
Wow almost like the memey bullshit you’ve heard about it has been overblown for the last few decades

>>23308767
I somehow didn't actually hear anything about any gundam series despite hitting a thousand completed shows and since starting the whole franchise I've only heard very minor stuff - with Wing only that it was considered a worse entry or at least polarizing.
The meme nature was my own impression since it was goofy with alot of 'it's cool so it's fine' scenes.
It did feel like they're trying to keep the Tomino vibe and im glad they did AND actually improved it by taking an episode to spell the whole journey out/put it into perspective rather than leaving the motivations slightly confusing/unclear in the way Tomino would..

>>23302105
It was his wife's nickname. He treats his Gundams as an extension of his wife.

>>23308791
So wait. Factions and allegiances and motivations ARNT random and change every other episode?

>>23306039
>>23308818
Meilan Long, aka Nataku is the only woman Wufei would ever acknowledge as well as respect and love.

>>23308851
has to be shitposting if anyone claims that since wing explains it properly, I refuse to believe someone can speedwatch this hard.

>>23308876
It has not been. Look at this and the other Wing thread

>>23308881
Maybe once I finish the show, but im still guessing it's people shitposting to get a kick out of gullible retards.
Otherwise people still watching since the episode where Zechs has a falling out with Treize and OZE was a bit confusing since we still didn't have a full picture of their motivations

>>23308791
Love the tiny jet and huge mobile suits in this shot.

>>23272469
Good Lord Treize and Zechs look creepy in that.

>>23308917
Just to clarify something else, one of the major criticisms are how “invincible” the boys are. Is it correct to say that up to the point you’ve gotten to they’re p much gotten their asses kicked continuously outside of the initial drop, right?

>>23308712
>>23308767
it isn't a terrible show, the issue is they shouldn't have made it 52 episodes or whatever they did. Like the show would have probably been better if they only had like 26 episodes and didn't have 5 main characters.

>>23308851
>>23308876
the faction, allegiance and motivation changes are very rapid and probably intentionally confusing as a critique on war and the gundam series in general as was popular at the time (see G gundam and war in the pocket).
I feel like one of the goals was literally to push the
>literally what the fuck is the point, why are we even fucking fighting at this point?
message

>>23309536
IIRC the first ass-kicking the MCs get where they can't just power their way through is maybe like episode 18 or 19, about the point they return to space

>>23309536
They're definitely plotarmored to the point of immortality and shouldn't have been winning some of these fights as much as they did if the show was going to pretend their only advantage was surprise attacks. They've kept winning until the colony threat iirc, then it's the space loss that puts them in a situation so shit its not even losing - it's hard to call it a fight or a loss when the mechs barely work.
Given how hard they lose when they finally do (just before space), they should have gotten more fucked up with injuries or deaths. Shouldn't have shown them getting so utterly btfo if they're getting away just exhausted. Though thats just nitpicking since there's a good amount of episodes dedicated to them resting.

It's fair someone could dislike that, but I don't mind since it's clearly that kinda show from the very first episode - over the top and 'it's cool so it's fine'. Would be equivalent to complaining about g gundam being silly.

>>23309987
>literally what the fuck is the point, why are we even fucking fighting at this point?
Seems to be the point, though I don't see it as a critique of war, moreso a focus on the people's reasons for fighting/emotions behind the broad wargoal of any given side.
Maybe I'll see it by the time I finish it.

>>23309981
I like the large MC cast and it does feel like they could have squished this in less episodes, dunno if it'd improve anything though. Its fun.

>>23310062
>>23309987
oh nad ye
>gundam series
it does contrast with the shows up till now where everyone was a gear in the (war) machine that just rolled beyond their control forcing them to fight. Feels like they have more agency now and aren't forced to fight for the people they disagree with.
>intentionally confusing
the allegiance changes are over several episodes spelling out the character development - I don't think they were meant to confuse anyone given how slow and well explained they are.
I was more confused by Zeta and G Reco factions in general than by this.

>>23309536
This show is really weird about how it shows the Gundam's persevering.
Like there's re-used footage of the Wing being shot out of the sky by Leos.
And I think it's supposed to show you how tough it is, that it can crash like that and keep going.
But even as a kid I read it more as "Damn, Heero fucked up again":.

Were these guys supposed to be parodies of the eccentric labcoat professor archtype from early mecha anime? If so... why exactly?

>>23310119
the colonists are just civilians, their own government is the oppressor. they're too isolated to band together and start a resistance since each colony is a separate small city and generally people aren't allowed to communicate or travel between them unless they are VIPs, government, or military. so it falls to some old crazy guy with a hangar full of scrap to build weapons to fight against the totalitarian alliance, and there was at least one such crazy guy in each of the five colonial settlements

that was before endless waltz retconned it slightly so that there was a illuminati-like secret group of wealthy people in space who funded the scientists, hoping to use the Gundams to topple the existing Alliance government and create a new world order (completely separate from the existing romefeller group of wealthy nobles and industrialists on Earth who sponsored OZ to topple the existing Alliance government and create a new world order)

>>23308791
>bitches leave

>>23308939
yea that doesn't look right at all lol GTFO of here relena

So the pacing sucked this episode and I've been thinking that perhaps the point of this show is not war or peace, but the understanding that you want to become Relena's dog?
But we can't skip the ojou warfare, therefore I was left with no choice
https://files.catbox.moe/1q59p3.png
https://files.catbox.moe/zzuqds.png
alts
https://files.catbox.moe/i6nt09.png
https://files.catbox.moe/ihue7s.png
https://files.catbox.moe/kfngcd.png

I did like how the show actually addresses the obvious question of "Where does the standard flamboyant organization of villains come from and how can they afford an inexhaustible army of giant robots?" and gives the realistic answer, that they're the useful idiots of the ruling class who see them as tools to retain their place at the top. The entire Treize faction is the guys in OZ who went "What do you mean we're not supposed to actually enact our stated agenda and that was just all just a lie to cover for crushing the people even harder?

What if...

>>23311929
I like that episode
the ending is cute

>>23311965
it was ok, just felt like they could have fit it in 12 minutes

>>23311934
The Treize faction is interesting because ostensibly its just a bunch of guys fighting without Treize's direct support. They are just doing what they think Treize would have wanted almost purely based off their liking of the guy. Pretty crazy that Treize is so well beloved that he can do nothing and still rip the biggest faction in the setting in half. I've always said if you dropped Treize into any other Gundam series he would absolutely dominate it no matter what

>>23311929
>AI slop
You should be banned

>>23312036
don't whine about drawing software choices in a robot thread.

>>23312005
I feel like you could describe most wing episodes in that manner

>>23312122
Likely. It does feel like they're stretching out the material a bit

>>23312725
pretty much all the series that get universal or near universal praise are OVAs like War in the pocket or 08th MS team because they weren't required to conform to the 52 episode 24 min per episode or whatever it was thing wing had to conform to. Like endless waltz, despite the worse designs, gets more praise because they didn't need to conform to the same timing structure as wing proper did.
G lucks out because it's more episodic for the most part and because G had characters like Stalker who let them kill time in a way that didn't detract from the pacing

>>23312749
Its not the amount of episodes thats the issue, it's how the episodes are used.

0079 still had plenty of story to tell when it got axed.
And then you have zeta and zz just horribly fucking dragging themselves out with insane padding.
G gundam ending at least 3 times and being all over the place, but at least it was fun. (what the fuck was that "ending" before the gundam fight matches? It felt like they thought they're getting axed and had to retcon shit)
Victory was ok pacing-wise (or at least it was fun enough not to care) but Chronicle barely felt like a character.
G Reco needed at least 3-5 episodes more to fleshen things out, or hell maybe even an entire extra arc at some point.

The thing with Wing is that it's not even that much of an issue. Sure it's kinda slow at times, but it does properly use that time to babystep walk the viewer through everything and develop the characters.
As I said earlier I dunno if squishing it in less episodes wouldn't actually backfire - even then it would be what, 1-2 EPs less out of 26 or so. Its not that significant, unless it gets worse from now on.

>>23312793
> G gundam ending at least 3 times and being all over the place, but at least it was fun. (what the fuck was that "ending" before the gundam fight matches? It felt like they thought they're getting axed and had to retcon shit)
I don't remember any of that, would you elaborate?

>>23315068
>end of dark army arc which could have been a finale with master asia and devil gundam beaten
>devil gundam getting btfo for real, schwarzbruder arc finale and master asia's death which the show could have ended on
>silly final fight in space
Most of the weirdness was with the first one since it felt like they had an axe looming, 2nd was just a weird directing decision

>>23315068
>>23315083
oh didnt notice its a namefag, my bad. Filtered.

>>23312725
yea I like wing but it shouldnt have been 50 episodes maybe more like 25 or 30

>>23315085
Something wrong with having a name?
Also what does filtered mean.

>>23315083
I get what you mean but I am totally okay with the end direction bc its just a dumb kids anime shonen gundam series and not something meant to be intelligent.

>>23312005
I am not saying you're wrong- but that was just how anime was made during that time. Look at episodes of Inuyasha or YuYuHakusho.

90% of the animation budget goes to about 10% of the episode and the rest is animation tricks and talking to make it work. there was a page once upon a time that abridged inuyasha episodes to a fraction of their runtimes just by cutting out the filler scenes that were there to fit runtimes.

Gundam really comes out okay by comparison, cause they add a point to the dialogue.

>>23312749
I am pretty sure that sunrise has a body of data to sift through, I am certain that they look at how new fans onboard themselves into the franchise and it's always with the shorter stuff first.

I just recently onboarded my GF by rewatching 08th ms team and unicorn. Those are really good starting points for normies. The miniseries must do really well for them. Tons of new kits and half the animation budget.

>>23187609
That's because it went over your head. The first episode was actually "I can fix him" and she did. Relena is best girl.

>>23317312
I got my Ex to watch WitP and then she said she couldn't watch anything else after because it made her too sad when Bernie died, she cried for like an hour.

>>23317312
> there was a page once upon a time that abridged inuyasha episodes to a fraction of their runtimes just by cutting out the filler scenes that were there to fit runtimes.
that's because the anime's were meant to run as an episodic show for x number of weeks in japan for japanese kids so the tv stations could sell ads. they were required to be x number of episodes for exactly y minutes. It's why most HBO/streaming shows with various run times were seen as better until they got woke and are now ass, because they could go about telling a story and weren't constrained by episode count or run time requirements.
RAW is fucking ass right now, but the whole point of dropping from 3 hours to the 2.5 or whatever they have now is so they can stop running filler shit
>I am certain that they look at how new fans onboard themselves into the franchise and it's always with the shorter stuff first.
that might be the case now, but weren't the ovas originally direct to vhs?

>>23317312
>but that was just how anime was made during that time
its not necessarily due to ads or intended padding, they just couldn't make everything look good back then and needed to have episodes with nothing to put time into good scenes elsewhere. Then there's adapting manga into anime - they have to put all that dialogue in somehow. Combine the two and you get static talking.
>I am not saying you're wrong
It's not that I disliked the episode or that it was filler content - the scenes still had meaning , it just felt very slow even for wing standards. Feels like directing style more than results of being forced into a certan episode count
>new fans
Obviously a shorter series will look more appealing to try out, I doubt it's the case for gundam though - seems to me people just jump into the series to see what's all the hype about and why the word "gundam" has been a thing for so many years everytime a new entry into the franchise is made.

>>23201933
Where the FUCK is the Taurus kit, Bandai?

>>23197114
This scene single-handedly captured the hearts of young men all over the world.
Wing's politics is messy, many plot points and ideas are unresolved, but this scene was a sincere attempt at the show transcending from "giant robots destroy things" to "let's talk about WHY people fight".

>>23200538
This basically. Most people would say Treize is all talk, but when it comes down to it, he really DOES know what he's talking about.

>>23316749
>>23316752
have you considered that you should kill yourself

>>23184666 (OP)
first episode is still the funniest anime episode I've ever seen

>>23319205
Would this count as Clussy whenever she performs on the circus?

>>23322764
I'll kill you.

>>23319468
>This scene single-handedly captured the hearts of young men all over the world.
Yes
>this scene was a sincere attempt at the show transcending from "giant robots destroy things" to "let's talk about WHY people fight".
Trieze believes that war, conducted in the right way, is able to bring out the most noble and heroic aspects of the human spirit. The right way does happen to involve giant robots destroying things

I think the wing/seed/00 formula is due for a comeback. Team of pretty boy gundam pilots wage war with total seriousness. I'm tired of moebait and irony and deconstruction, I want earnest chuuni again. Is that too much to ask

>>23319205
Delete this

>>23184666 (OP)
Very. It's bad.

>>23323158
No u

For all of Wing's faults, I still think it's more palatable than contemporary mecha anime.

What made it so special to US viewers when it premiered in 2000 was that the main leads were just bit players in the grand scheme of things. Treize played them like a fiddle and unlike certain Gundam franchises (I'm looking at YOU CE!), having a souped-up Gundam doesn't make them completely unstoppable.

When the Wing Gundam was outclassed by the Mobile Dolls, I was impressed that they showed how vulnerable and desperate Heero's situation was.

Plus Treize's commentary of mobile dolls was what made Wing differ from other dubbed anime that was presented.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx5xrMeg74E

Not to mention Heero's classroom speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWLEbHrUT9U

People don't understand how the average Japanese hates warfare. Their history was dominated by military strongmen and the average people had no choice but to comply under their form of feudalism and even in the modernization period it was an oligarchy. The post-1945 generations are able to write stuff like this compared to the US which never suffered the agony and demoralization of their country bombed out, millions of their people killed, etc. Japan finally had a semblance of democratic institutions, something it never had before and freedom of expression.

In response to the failure of Vietnam, US media churns out stuff like The Deer Hunter or Rambo: First Blood 2 where they vindicate their "loss" because weak-willed politicians and dirty hippies didn't allow them to win. I suspect we'll see a resurgence of right-wing revisionism of the failure of Afghanistan and Iraq too.

>>23323744
>What made it so special to US viewers
what made it special to US viewers was that it was the first gundam show that got a wide spread release in the US via toonami and the accompanying programming on cartoon network both before and during hyped it the fuck up

>>23323744
>I suspect we'll see a resurgence of right-wing revisionism of the failure of Afghanistan and Iraq too.
Afghanistan happened because Afghans will do anything to continue fucking goats and marrying illiterate 9 year olds.
2/3rds of white men under the age of 40 voted for trump so whenever you see anyone making
>muh right wing
posts they are outing themselves as a yuro

>>23323771
Indeed it was. I was 5 years old when Wing premiered and it helped how Peter Cullen narrated the promo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVcCB4fze94

But unlike any other robot anime that the US localized which were mainly super robots or Robotech's compilation of SDF Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada, Wing was the first sophisticated war-drama that involved giant robots as engines of destruction for socio-political means. The enemy wasn't aliens but human beings.

So yeah the fact that it was US babies' 1st Gundam to be seen on network TV really helped shape what we expected more from mecha anime. The first 2 anime I grew up watching was Ronin Warriors, the 90's localization of Yoroiden Samurai Troopers that Toonami aired in Fall of 1999 and then Wing in spring of 2000. Truly a great time to grow up as a kid.

>>23323776
Afghanistan was a completely shitshow because we tried to bring democracy to a "country" that consisted of tribes with flags as one historian once put it. You had all these ethnic groups who didn't like one another, Muslim extremists, opium producers whom we had to play nice with or we'd lose support, and of course the primitive knuckle-draggers.

I lean libertarian. The problem with both Iraq and Afghanistan was that we were on mission decay and we were stuck in a quagmire. You can't bring democracy to cultures who worship their version of Sky Father zealously that dying as a martyr is considered the greatest achievement for personal and family honor.

And I expect major happenings by the end of this decade. The US is losing its strength every day unfortunately because of ineptitude.

>>23323776
>>23323790
Restrain yourselves, you’re going off topic

>>23323780
robotech didn't have the same widespread release as gundam. toonami had a significantly bigger influence than any anime blocks before it had. >>23323790
you aren't American. it's obvious you aren't American. Afghanistan beat the bongs and the soviets. you cannot beat the afghan spirit of wanting to rape goats and prevent girls from reading

>>23323744
that's a good episode
and then trieze gives heero the Epyon and he spergs out

>>23184666 (OP)
It had the best Gundams especially for toys and figures, the story and characters are absolutely the most boring sack of nothing but shit packed trash.

>>23323859
I actually enjoyed Heero spending time with each of the other pilots (except for Wufei who was an autistic loner). Heero and Duo going to school together and playing basketball was actually comfy. Heero with Trowa was interesting to see how 2 child-soldiers interacted with one another. And Heero with Quatre was kinda funny seeing them join Relena's private school.

But yeah there was practically no storyline. I was more interested in the politicians of Romefeller and Treize because they were the adults in charge than the Wing boys.

>>23323873
>>23184666 (OP)
I remember actually liking the Gundam Wing movie Endless Waltz, I even have the VHS somewhere but it's been a while, I should rewatch it.

>>23184666 (OP)
Shit ton of style and has the best protag. The only gundam i like more are 80, Chars Counterattack and Turn A

>>23323744
>because weak-willed politicians and dirty hippies didn't allow them to win
well, that is what happened. You think America would lose to Vietnam if not for internal strife and sabotage?

>>23323971
Sigh...the US fumbled the ball with winning hearts and minds with their strategy like the fortified hamlets, not sending in properly trained troops for jungle and anti-guerrila warfare and didn't bomb North Vietnam ports and supply lines out of fear in drawing in the Soviets and Chinese.

Anyhow back on topic, Gundam Wing was like Sol Bianca but it was a mess of a narrative. Yet it somehow worked and it had a pretty fun conclusion. Endless Waltz was the perfect way to cap it off with destroying the Gundams.

>>23324539
you sound like a tranny

>>23200538
strong agree. Gundam Wing is full of little moments that really set it apart. Every pilot has a mirror to their character in the show. The dichotomies are all explored in their own ways.

Some people forget the original intended audience though, it was power fantasy slop fed to kids who were transitioning out of the disney channel/nickelodeon tv audience and wanted something that felt more realistic and exciting.

>>23200790
Sasuga Treize.