What is gravity supposed to represent in UC Gundam?

>>23321051 (OP)
Being tied to Earth and outdated ideas

The Man

being tied down by preconceptions. 'being weighed down by earth's gravity' is twisted thinking caused by the notion that earth is, must be, should be, and always will be the center of the universe and human civilization

>>23321051 (OP)
Morality and and restraint

has zoomer literacy really reached this low?

>>23321051 (OP)
Fat women.

>>23321051 (OP)
It means that if anything devastating happened to Kamille Bidan, Char would do wicked things to Earthlings.

>>23321051 (OP)
Literally a grounding force, both figuratively and metaphorically. People become twisted in space.

>>23321051 (OP)
Well birds can fly
>humans evolve into space psychics
nah
>humans evolve into birds
sure

>>23321080
>>23321105
>>23321135
Explain this then.

>>23321184
amuro has big sads because of the preconceived notion that there's absolutely nothing he can do to escape his shitty situation

Lol.

>>23321214
>living in space did this to me
>had nothing to do with all the surgeries and treatments I needed to live 200 years, just trust me bro

>>23321214
The mutations were just an issue that affected the people living near Venus

>>23321184
he's talking specifically about Jews in this context

>>23321051 (OP)
Attachment to the current world order where people are divided into oppressors and oppressed basically
Rewatch the theater scene at the end of Zeta

>>23321224
It was because since Venus has less gravity than Earth, human lose a lot of muscle mass. Happens with the astronauts that are stationed for a long time in the ISS.

>>23321051 (OP)
The burdens of the past, old grudges, basically don't cling to old things for the sake of it.

Newtypes specifially are meant to become the Ubermensch - gravity in this context refers to being trapped in old morals and value systems, which the Ubermensch is supposed to transcend to the point where Newtypes are to Oldtypes as we are to monkeys.

>>23321051 (OP)
it means being controlled by you-know-who

>>23322176
Venus has roughly the same surface gravity as Earth

>>23322455
They don't actually live ON Venus because Venus is a hell hole. The Venus Globe is a group of colonies outside of Venus.

>>23322176
No, the mutation wrecks their bodies but somehow grants longevity, and it’s exclusive to Venus Globe. Towasanga is fine.

>>23321051 (OP)
>Earth
Conservative, stagnant, corrupt, safe, grounded. Even Spacenoid forces like Zeon, Axis, Zanscare etc. Are unable to resist returning to the Earth, because it is just too much like "home" to humans.
>Space
Radical, experimental, outside-the-box, unhinged, freeform. Any ideology or invention seems possible here. Char saw humanity as being chained to Earth, like a child stuck in the cradle. True progress would only be possible if the option of remaining with Earth was removed entirely, he reasoned.

>>23322459
But my Venusian cloud cities! Still waiting for a sci-fi thing with them outside of random pulpy things I picked up from my local library as a kid.

>>23321051 (OP)
The force of attraction that large celestial objects exert.

>>23321224
There are other mutants you know? The spy woman turns out to be a midget wearing a bodysuit at the end of the last episode.

>>23321184
It's so weird how Tomino's sentiment towards earth changed so much by Turn A.

>>23322543
I completely fucking forgot about this until you said it what the fuck

>>23321224
I mean he directly presents it as being a result of him being away from earth.

What happened to Judau's colony out in buttfuck nowhere? Is that just a thing that never gets brought up again?

>>23323084
that was like a oneshot thing, a sidestory to another gundam sidestory, all written by hasegawa. nobody has expressed any interesting in creating continuations to hasegawa's stories, with or without his input, blessings, cooperation

>>23323089
Obviously SRW isn't canon or necessarily an accurate representation of the character but that shit is just shoved in there as part of his character.

>>23323084
>>23323089
I like the setting of the mangas but I'm not a fan of Hasegawa's art style and can't take the Crossbone Vanguard seriously in those mangas with the 17th century pirates in space aesthetic.

>>23323106
I don't doubt it, just saying that no one's ever written a followup or sequel about what happened to judau after that victory sidestory, that's all

>>23321051 (OP)
Gravity... is a harness.

>>23323084
Where do you think the Turn X came from?

>>23322536
>But my Venusian cloud cities! Still waiting for a sci-fi thing with them outside of random pulpy things I picked up from my local library as a kid.

If you need more than Edgar Rice Burroughs then there's no helping you.

>>23321051 (OP)
its hard to get off earth, atmosphere also doesn't help
its a representation of being stuck, of having limited resources, fighting against faceless institutions and conventions that keep you down
in space you can just set off in a direction and float forever until you find a rock with as many resources as you'll ever need, any ideology or dissidents can just break off etc etc

>>23323175
The space pirate angle was so Cecily could investigate the Jupiter Empire without risking a war between them and Frontier IV or the Earth Federation. They played up the 19th century pirate angle both to prevent any ambiguity and for style.

>>23321051 (OP)
regressive human nature

>>23322564
By CCA, honestly. Amuro (and everyone else) rejected Char's ideas of an exodus and overcame gravity through their collective will to save the planet and give humanity another chance. We belong to earth.

>>23324120
Sorry, wasn't asking for an explanation, I just can't get into it.

>>23324139
that's true but it's not like the story or even later works had a wholly positive view of the "gravity". londo bell is still a lapdog, the federation are still miserly pieces of shit and literally were cool with Axis pulling that shit so long as they got paid, if I remember right.

the moral of the story to me seemed to be a merging of Char and Amuro's ideas, understanding each other (something they, at the end, couldn't do). people need to move on from self-centered thinking and supremacy (reject staying on the Earth forever) but you can't force it through overwhelming violence and destroying the Earth itself. we belong to Earth and we always will. it is our recognition of that which will allow us to move away from an Earth centric view, to value it as a cradle of natural beauty instead of a throne to only mankind. you can't remove that belonging by destroying it, because it is innate. it has to be an internal change.

or that's what I think. personally I like Char's ideals and i think rejecting the concept completely is less interesting. it's a lot cooler to think that Char is on to something but he fucked up vs him and the AEUG were just outright wrong.

>>23324227
>and literally were cool with Axis pulling that shit so long as they got paid, if I remember right.
Well not really. Char promised to cancel the whole rebellion and disarm if the Federation agreed to sell them Axis, and the briefcases of gold were meant to be payment for Axis. The gold was not intended as a bribe since it was officially part of the deal and the meeting included neutral parties and observers. Later, Adenauer justifies signing the sales contract with Char by saying that the gold would be useful for funding public welfare programs and Char would have threatened the colonies otherwise, to which Bright counters that Char's not interested in wiping out colonies, Char's been targeting the Earth the entire time.

Char's views by CCA were that he had become a self-destructive nihilist who was ass mad because people weren't moved by his Dakar speech in Zeta so he was going to kill them and most of the Earthnoids. Char hated Amuro because he couldn't figure out how to develop his Newtype skills enough to communicate with his ghost-gf/surrogate mother.

The whole Contolism and "freeing people from Earth's gravity" thing, at least in CCA, was a front so he could get old Zeon and Neo-Zeon supporters. He no longer believed in that and was pulling a long game plot like he did against the Zabi family, only this time his target was everyone still living on Earth, Amuro, and anyone that got in the way.

>>23324255
you're correct anon, I mixed up CCA with ZZ and the feds talking about how the colony drop in dublin would be a boon to their prices or some shit. thanks for the clarification.
even so, kind of insane that the federation made the same mistake basically twice, what with initially handing Haman and Neo Zeon Axis as well. the federation was still a corrupt shitty organization.

>>23324408
It's not a mistake. We learn that the federation officials evacuated from Dakar in advance, leaving just the masses to die. They're basically in cahoots with Char, laughing together while they LARP negotiations.

>>23324511
>They're basically in cahoots with Char, laughing together while they LARP negotiations.
Not entirely, the EF bigwigs want to reduce the population of Earth but they still want to live there themselves as elites. Dropping an asteroid and wiping out a city is all good but even they wouldn't want Axis to drop and make the place inhabitable.

>>23321051 (OP)
So after watching Brain Powerd pretty sure it's the womb

>>23324656
There's something there.
Char's mom thing...
Earth is the womb...

>>23321051 (OP)
Mankind's attachment to Earth, whether tangible or spiritual. Gravity is used as symbolism to describe a bond that keeps significant portions of mankind on Earth even though they have achieved the means to settle space itself.

You see children, the vines are a metaphor for Gravity. It's very clever.

>>23321051 (OP)
Gravity.

>>23328948
HERMITO PURPLE!!!

>>23321051 (OP)
Zeta is trying to teach you Buddhism. Let go of the past.

>>23321051 (OP)
Nostalgia and culture, worshipping and taking inspiration from the national graveyards and cultural obituaries called museums and history. Ptuah. I spit on them.

Char was a based Italian futurist. The newtype worships speed and movement and life in space is a constant no longer weighted down by gravity

I've become convinced the idea is taken straight from Thus Spake Zarathustra.
The part towards the end of the book titled "The Spirit of Gravity"
Read it here
https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/friedrich-nietzsche/thus-spake-zarathustra/thomas-common/text/chapter-55

Additionally, in Genealogy of Morals, Nietzsche writes about "the blond beasts" as an aristocratic type.
Char seems modeled after this idea.

>>23323797
So 600 years later they're still using a UC calendar...

>>23321051 (OP)
Tradition, preconceived notions and idea and overall old thinking.

>>23332662
Hey anon that was genuinely a good read, could you expand on this viewpoint of yours? I'd like to know more.

>>23332668
I mean the people on an interstellar spaceship wouldn't know if the Earth Sphere changed calendars...

>>23324227
The federation elite aren't actually earthnoids in the truest sense and can actually live anywhere because they have the money just like irl rich people. Throwing rocks at earth will never help anything because these people will always exist.

>>23333371
Well, my view isn't complicated, I'm saying I believe Tomino and his friends had probably read Nietzsche and used his philosophy as inspiration for the show.
Combining Nietzsche and Sci-fi are not ideas that are unique to Gundam.
2001: A Space Odyssey uses a piece of music called "Thus Spake Zarathustra" (named after Nietzche's book) for its title sequence.
I'm not ready to think about a Nietzschean analysis of 2001: ASO, but the film does show man evolving from apes to Supermen in a Zero-G environment.
Bladerunner's Roy Batty is a Nietzschean aristocrat, particularly with the idea that he wants "more life".
Lawrence of Arabia is a Nietzschean movie, and it apparently served as a direct inspiration to Frank Herbert for Dune, which of course (along with 2001) served as direct inspiration for Star Wars.
Nietzsche's concept of the "superman" was a VERY direct inspiration for the Superman comics, and I believe that style of superhero inspired Astro Boy, which of course laid groundwork for Japanese animation.
Nietzsche is at the center of so much modern media, modern Sci-Fi, and (for better and for worse) he created the very idea of superheros.

2001: A Space Odyssey and Gundam are unique in all of these in that they capitalize on the real life logistics of space travel, and Zero Gravity, and use them as a metaphor for Nietzsche's ideas about gravity in Thus Spake Zarathustra. Both go to pains to depict Zero Gravity realistically.
But In my opinion, Gundam might actually be the best rendition of Nietzschean philosophy in Sci-Fi. Particularly CCA is a masterpiece. The visual metaphor of Zero Gravity, the visual metaphor of Amuro pushing Axis away from Earth in defiance of gravity, the way characters converse in Zero G, what certain characters say when they are floating vs. standing on the floor, everything about Char as a character and his unstoppable crusade...

All Tomino stuff is great, but CCA particularly lives rent free in my head

>>23333965
I enjoyed this breakdown, anon. Admittedly I am not well versed in Nietzschean philosophy beyond the minute basics that would be taught in a philosophy class. I really should get around to reading his work.
Your post has offered me more insight as to the themes of Gundam, I appreciate it. You will be buried in my pyramid when I die.

>>23333965
imagine having zero gravity sex with quess haha

>>23333965
He's talked about Nietzsche a good bit in interviews too

>>23333965
I remember watching a video where the author tried to argue that Nietzsche's mental breakdown was from him finally understanding nature. That he crawled inside his mind to such a degree that he managed to align himself to its tunes, becoming sort of like a tree/stone in a way.
Now, I'm not saying that's the case, but that description reminded me of Kamille in a way.

>>23324139
>We belong to earth.
Congratulations, you figured out the dual meaning to the lyrics of Beyond the Time.

>>23333371
NTA, but I've read a lot of Nietzsche, particularly Zarathustra.

Here's my perspective:
Nietzsche's "overman" is an evolution of man. But it's explicitly NOT a biological evolution, it's not transhuman, it's not tied to any religion, but it is quasi-spiritual. It's kind of hard to grasp because Nietzsche talks more about what it isn't than what it is, but effectively - what he's saying is that it's a perfected man, one that doesn't "NEED" any outside source to be perfect (think of how Nono becomes Buster Machine 7 when she proclaims that "a true Top would never say "I can't do it without a Buster Machine!") It's a sort of realization that you have and are already everything you will ever need.
No one alive today (or at least at the time of writing) is an overman - particularly due to the spiritual malaise of Western society at that time. It comes from the spirit, the spirit of man (he explores this idea in "the will to power" - if you've seen "Akira", it's the same idea).
The crux, then, is tied to old archetypes like Tarot - let me explain. The Fool is card 0 of the major arcana - the Fool in modern card decks is translated as the Joker, both cards are a placeholder card which has the potential to become any other card. This channels the ancient message that "the Fool is the precursor to the Saviour" - that is to say, if you're not willing to BE a fool, to make a mistake, you will never develop competence to become a person who could be a hero.
The most foolish thing is to DANCE. To dance is to be a fool, to frolic, to simply BE. And yet, life itself, the universe itself, IS locked in a cosmic dance, is it not? The planets dance around each other forever and ever; the seasons dance in an endless cycle and human culture dances again and again. Only one who has a spirit free enough to DANCE can achieve flight and escape gravity, the force which drags one down, physically, spiritually, potentially and philosophically.

>>23322187
Except that that's not what new types actually are. X spells this out pretty plainly even though it's not UC. New types are no different from old types sans the psychic powers. Haman herself is dramatic evidence of this alone. Newtypes are supposed to be able to understand eachother much better than oldtypes but Kamille immediately has a negative reaction to Haman when they meet that never changes. Newtypes being any kind of le hippy future of human race thing is a total meme and Tomino has more or less stated multiple times via the events of his series that humans will remain human no matter what

>>23338212
Cont, just a quick addendum.

So one can immediately see how Newtype is an Ubermensch-style evolution in Gundam. It's not really biological and can't be stimulated; if you try to bastardise it like Cyber-Newtypes, they become heavily screwed up.
My mind goes back to the opening of ZZ which shows a progression from Amuro, who is a victim of circumstance (and pays for it); Kamille, who is a Christ-like empath who tries too hard and burns himself out (think of Simon from The Lord of the Flies - he's kind of "too good for this world") and finally Judau - Judau is the only one who doesn't meet a grim end. Unlike Amuro and Kamille, who are quite serious characters, Judau is carefree in spite of his rough childhood. He's willing to be the fool, and so becomes the saviour.

This is why I refuse to date a woman who won't dance (I had an ex like that). A person who cannot loosen up enough to be silly for five minutes has some serious growing to do.
I myself am not a GREAT dancer, but I know that the secret is that NO ONE knows how to dance, any more than you know how to have sex - it's just something that you do.
I implore you, Anons, never be afraid to dance.

>>23321051 (OP)
Attachment and compassion.

>>23337907
>That he crawled inside his mind to such a degree that he managed to align himself to its tunes, becoming sort of like a tree/stone in a way.
he's just like me...

>>23322459
I remember Venus was terraformed in Cowboy Bebop.

>>23328948
>You see children, the vines are a metaphor for Gravity. It's very clever.

Double reverse Utena reference.

>>23338826
That was impossible nonsense.

>>23337907
It apparently was one of Jung's theories. That perhaps Nietzsche had achieved a state of Nirvana, since his situation was incredibly bizarre.