Thread 23333495

Is it ever explained in-universe why a Federation COIN force was running around with Zeon technology instead of their own?

>>23333495 (OP)
It's a spin on Project Paperclip where the US took Nazi scientists and researched German aircraft and rocket designs.

Anaheim absorbed Zeonic after the OYW

>>23333495 (OP)
Yes watch the show.

>zeon has a few mobile suit companies: Zeonic, Zimmad, MIP
>zeon loses OYW
>Anaheim electronics buys all the zeon companies and becomes the largest arms manufacturer in setting
>Anaheim sales the earth federation shit built and designed by former Zeeks from the companies they bought
>federation starts using zeek looking shit because it wins the arms contract

>>23333495 (OP)
That’s the entire plot of 0083:Stardust Memories

>>23333495 (OP)
zeon tech better

>>23333584
no it isn't

>>23333495 (OP)
In-series, supplementary material and 0083 make it extremely clear that the Federation acquired a ton of Zeon tech after the OYW. The surplus units they captured, material and intel acquired from Solomon, A Baoa Qu, and Granada, and the personnel they recruited. Zeon had a wealth of mobile suit technology and engineers to draw on. Their design philosophies went with them. Out of universe the suits ordering the show just wanted the bad guys to use monoeyes.

>>23333495 (OP)
Novels explain it pretty well, also explains why the MKII demonstration partially went to shit

Is it my own bias that makes the Hizack feel more responsive to me than the
Gundam Mk-II? Lieutenant Junior Grade Jerid Messa wondered from inside his
cockpit.
The other Titan pilots shared his opinion. The Mk-II design was so conscious of
the old Gundam that it had inherited many of its negative aspects. Its control system
could rightly be criticized as rigid. But because the Hizack was originally based on the
Zeon mobile suit archetype, it had been modified without reservation ever since its
adoption by the Federation. That freewheeling attitude resulted in better performance
compared to the mobile suits descended from an EFF lineage

>>23333662
>the Gundam is strictly adhering to the design conventions causing rigidness and staleness
>the Zaku conversely is freely allowed to evolve and become something more impressive and variable
The Gundam is bound by gravity, the Zaku freely evolves.

>>23333495 (OP)
It's cheaper to develop and maintain, and easier to pilot. Plus, the federation wanted to re-use existing facilities which were better suited towards certain designs. The Hizack was originally designed by the Federation as a way to use zeon facilities, which is why it's a frankenstein of federation and zeon parts

The same tribe makes money off weapon development for both sides.

>>23333495 (OP)
0083 makes it pretty clear that any chances of the Federation sticking with federation style designs went down the drain when Gato nuked like 2/3rds of their standing fleet and MS. As a consequence the federation was hungry to refill its ranks but were a bunch of brokies so they couldn't refill the ranks with state of the art GMs, and looked to repurposing zeon factories to churn out cheap MS that fit the bill. Largely why the Hizack was adopted was because it had performance on par with standard MS at the time, and also had extremely high productivity since it's basically a Zaku II refined. Same deal with the Galbaldy Beta. Federation needed a good MS and the Galbaldy Beta combines the best aspect of both the Galbaldy and Gelgoog which were both excellent MS as far as the federation was concerned. While these MS look like zeon MS, their internals have a ton of federation tech crammed into them so the lines begin to really blur during Zeta as to what is zeonic and what is federation. By the end of ZZ the line is so blurred that it basically comes down to an armor style choice as the internals of most MS are more or less the same baseline. Unicorn, no matter how shit it may be, covers this while the sleeves are equipping the unicorn with random weapons. Another funny example is the Nemo. While it may look like a GM, it's internals have been described as very zeonic in style

>>23333746
a certain moon-dwelling tribe

>>23333528
This is the answer to every thread on /m/.

>>23333940
God forbid you engage in the medium the board is about

>>23333515
Wouldn’t this be more akin to If US troops occupying Germany after the war suddenly adopted stahlhelms and STG-44s?

>>23333977
No. The M60 was designed off of MG42.
The Saturn rockets were based off V2's
While there are similarities there are things that make them uniquely their own and not exclusively Zeon.

>>23333495 (OP)
what was never explained in-universe is why their uniforms are a mix of federation (neck and shoulder rank) and zeon (chest insignia rank)

I get that the Federation and Anaheim Electronics absorbed a bunch of Zeon companies and tech that produced MS. But why would still theb design your brand new mobile suit force to look like your previously defeated enemy?

>>23333961
There was actual engagement on this board for a number of years that wasn't "sO wHy DiD tHiS hApPeN". God forbid you actually watch the medium this board is about.

>>23334052
The way it looked to me felt like you were complaining about being told to watch the show. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Those OPs are baiting for twitter engagement crops /v/ is flooded with them

>>23334040
You just want new tech that works based on proven philosophies and don't care about aesthetic. Same reason there were some guns and rockets patterned after the German ones. Engineers and designers went to the victor countries forcefully or willingly.

>>23334040
IRL the French adopted a lot of German technology into their designs post-WW2 such that they ended up looking pretty German. It's kinda like that.

>>23334190
Right after World War 2 they were straight up using German surplus equipment until they rebuilt their arms industry. Lot of colonial troops in Indochina had Kar98's.

>>23334206
Yep. Some people on here might have read Chieftain's post back in 2012 on the WoT website where he went over the French report on the Panther tank which they used for a few years and the things they would like to improve on it and/or keep that went into the AMX-30 that replaced it as the French MBT.

>>23333998
>The M60 was designed off of MG42.
FG42, different weapon.

>>23333998
>The Saturn rockets were based off V2's
there might be a reason for that anon

>>23333495 (OP)
Go to NASA one day and shout HEIL HITLER and see how many people jump up.

>>23333495 (OP)
Out of Universe Explanation:
Tomino wanted the bad guys to have mono-eye suits. He also wanted to invert the storytelling compared to 0079. Unlike 0079, The people on Earth are the bad guys now. The people in space are the good guys.

In-Universe Explanation:
The Federation wanted the best possible technology. Gato also destroyed 75% of the Federation fleet at Solomon with Gp02's super nuke. So the Federation had to rebuild quickly and very cheaply. So Hizacks were chosen because they could mass produced effectively both in space and on Earth.

>>23333495 (OP)
>COIN force

A what?

>>23334499
counter insurgency

>>23334503
Then just say that

>>23334522
COIN is the official acronyn, anon.

>>23334390
Now that I think considering F91, Victory, Gaia Gear, Hathaway, etc. I feel like the original intention for Tomino was to keep flipping who the bad guy is.

>>23333495 (OP)
The titans still confuse me a little as to how they became powerful enough to effectively take over the federation. They were just a force for counterinsurgency (and oppressing the colonies but same thing), How did they get enough power and political clout to do that?

>>23334625
The AEUG insurgency expanding led to the Federation increasing their remit until they became the de facto biggest military force at the Fed's disposal. They controlled the industrial centers, the military bases, the R&D. After the success of Operation Apollo, the Federal General Assembly gives the Titans a monopoly on the Federation's military forces.

>>23334625
The civilian government effectively split the military off into its own government. The Titans had authority over normal forces and the the free will to do whatever they wanted. It's like an extreme version of the War Powers Resolution

>>23333977
no, it's more like what if 3/4 allies used the same ballistic missile design they looted from the krauts and then each designed their own divergent line of successors based on said missile because it was such a great design.

Or maybe what if America just suddenly decided to give up on afghanistan and let the taliban have it back, and they didn't even bother to take their shit with them so now the Taliban are rolling the latest generation of standard NATO equipment.

>>23333495 (OP)
The Titans seem like they operated like the Waffen SS did in WW2. Where they're not directly a segment of the regular EFF and thus don't get the same direct access to the EFF's procurement office. So they had to source their equipment themselves, this makes them making huge purchases directly from Anaheim make perfect sense.

>>23334625
Jamitov engaging in realpolitik and the organization being extremely effective in the post-Operation Stardust era (both the food shortage from the colony drop and the vacuum the Solomon attack left in the Federation ranks). They were able to portray themselves as doing extremely good and could snipe the best manpower the Federation could offer.

>>23334522
coin is a pretty established term anon
military procurement proposals sometimes use that term exclusively

>>23334040
Other than the reasons mentioned in >>23334103 and >>23334190, there was also a psyop factor too, if I recall, since they'd be hunting Zeon's remnants with their own beloved Mobile Suit, in a way. It's also worth noting that the actual base color for the Hizack was blue, but the Titans (read: a division of the EFF specifically formed to hunt down Zeon Remnants) had their Hizacks painted green similar to Zeon's Zaku IIs, to hammer home this psyop factor and to remind the audience that the Titans are the bad guys.

>>23334625
>They were just a force for counterinsurgency (and oppressing the colonies but same thing), How did they get enough power and political clout to do that?

They were much larger than that. They were basically another branch of the Federation military.

After the events of 0083, They got hyper funded for 3 years by the Federation government. They were given the best suits, newest ships, highest authority, and ability recruit talent from other branches.

It would be like if there was a special powerful enemy that lurks in the oceans. So the USA superfunds the US Navy to deal with the growing threat.


I'm more surprised the Titans lost against the AEUG. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. The AEUG simply didn't have the numbers to win in my opinion. But I guess the anime says otherwise.

>>23333542
why doesn't the Federation just take over Anaheim it's not like they have an army

>>23335292
>I'm more surprised the Titans lost against the AEUG. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. The AEUG simply didn't have the numbers to win in my opinion.
AEUG's victory was more political than military. Most titans survived the conflict, unlike the AEUG...

>>23335308
That's what happened in Unicorn.

>>23335311
Yeah and then they joined up with Neo Zeon because they're all evil I guess

>>23335319
Some Titans and AEUG joined Axis, most folded back into the federation regular forces

Bad guys use the monoeyes mobile suits so the kids watching at home know they’re the baddies.

>>23333495 (OP)
>instead of their own?
they were working on it

>>23335292
>I'm more surprised the Titans lost against the AEUG. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. The AEUG simply didn't have the numbers to win in my opinion.
Zeta kinda fumbles the visual storytelling aspect, but AEUG is an outright faction of the Federation in a civil war and not just an insurgency. They controlled multiple fortresses & population centers in space and huge chunks of Earth so they actually did have large numbers. Add to that the Colony Laser wiped out half of the Titans' fleet, so the Titans came to their date with destiny in the final battle already severely battered and the fighting did the rest. It's worth noting that by the end of the series, Jamitov is worrying about how the Federation General Assembly might turn against them because of their overreach in the colonies and popular opinion turning in AEUG's favor.

>>23335472
>They controlled multiple fortresses & population centers in space and huge chunks of Earth so they actually did have large numbers.
Wait what? What fortresses?

I thought AEUG was basically like a roving pirate space fleet. Like how Cima Fleet was in 0083. Hard to track down and constantly doing guerilla warfare.

>>23335292
>>23335472
The Titans are basically cooked as soon as the Federation government and EFF side against them. The USMC might be nominally independent and have capabilities that others don't, but for some reason I suspect they wouldn't fare so well if they suddenly found themselves at war with the US Navy. The Titans are shown to be reliant on EFF supply chains and cooperation from conventional EFF assets to do exercise as much reach and power as they do. They might not vanish overnight but their presence as a meaningful player is toast as soon as they have to exist as a self-contained faction and not an extension of another.

>>23335476
Granada, Von Braun City, they take over Gryps II later in the series, multiple sympathetic colonies.
>I thought AEUG was basically like a roving pirate space fleet
That's just the Argama and the Radish. AEUG is active all over the Earth Sphere with other assets and their sister org Karaba is fighting on Earth.

>>23335487
I don't think those are fortresses

>>23335478
>The Titans are basically cooked as soon as the Federation government and EFF side against them.
Loss of Gates of Zedan was a mess but they still had the largest fleet, Basque being a retard who decided to pursue Haman instead of escorting the colony laser as the captain told him cost them war.

>>23335476
They have a base on the moon outside Granada.

>>23335472
Gryps war was a total civil war cluster fuck.
Also the novels explain regular EFSF are pretty much reduced to glorified welfare queen's to keep unemployment levels low, hence them have disciplinary problems etc. Plenty of them are bitter at Titans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3qgudxPeko&list=PLb252OH5vFTIPwx-gSxbFGPqSYRZqsJ7e&index=5.

Melbourne sucks dick

Since we're talking about Titans, can someone clarify something? Why did the Titans abandon Jaburo base for the newer Kilimanjaro Mountain base?

Kilimanjaro Mountain was smaller than all of Jaburo. It's also a mountain and above ground and easier to attack. Meanwhile Jaburo seems much more secure and below ground.

The entire Zeon military at their PEAK couldn't break Jaburo. So why fear the AEUG attack Jaburo? They are just a rag tag group. They don't have the numbers like Zeon did.

Kilimanjaro doesn't seem to have mobile suit factories like Jaburo did.

>>23340057
They pretended that Jaburo was still their main base and wanted to lure in the AEUG to kill all of them in a nuclear bomb trap. Once the Titans lose Jaburo, they'll need a new HQ on earth and that was Kilimanjaro base.

Zeon military was in the dark the entire time about Jaburo. They had no idea where the doors were so they couldn't get in. AEUG used to work for the Federation so they know where the doors are. If the AEUG slips in a nuclear bomb, it'll be a disaster, so the Titans wanted to stay one step ahead and slip a nuclear bomb while AEUG are in there.

>Kilimanjaro doesn't seem to have mobile suit factories like Jaburo did.
Just wait longer, they'll build them. They're already building new MS at Kilimanjaro.

>>23335525
That's just an Anaheim facility. You wouldn't be accusing Anaheim of supporting the AEUG when the goyims take good care of the Titans and feed them brand new Marasais, right?

>>23340066
Thanks. But I'm not 100% clear.

Isn't the AEUG super weak and only capable of guerilla strikes? Why did the Titans bother with such underhanded tactics?

Why not just recruit lore people and crush the AEUG the old fashioned way? Hunt them down like hunting down Zeon remnants.

>>23340100
>Isn't the AEUG super weak and only capable of guerilla strikes?
depends on the episode

>Why did the Titans bother with such underhanded tactics?
remember your old job where your old boss demands you do things a certain way? that's why. no other explanation to it, really. boss spends all his time away from the actual workplace and doesn't know the job that well and insists you do things a certain way because "this is how we do it" and "I'll write you up for insubordination" except sometimes the writeups also include bask punching you.

>Why not just recruit lore people and crush the AEUG the old fashioned way? Hunt them down like hunting down Zeon remnants.
Titans haven't actually done that yet so they didn't have experience and keep fucking it up. and then their boss tells them to do things like kidnappings and setting elaborate traps. and they keep forcing zeon-style MS which the feds don't know how to use since they used to be GM pilots

I mean to be fair they do keep trying to recruit the veteran fed pilots like lila and buran to help them out but they oddly keep dying anyway

>>23340100
>Isn't the AEUG super weak and only capable of guerilla strikes? Why did the Titans bother with such underhanded tactics?
The titans weakness was public optics, remember when Jerid almost murdered Kamille in the Byarlant and he has to stop to save face? That's why they couldnt just be open with their bullshit all the time. Another thing you need to remember is the AEUG grew from being a bunch of ragtag spacenoids and Zeeks vets protesting, to actual federation force members defecting because they were tired of the Titans shit so that also helped even the numbers.

>>23340047
And yet they dropped the colony on Sydney.

>>23333735
>Join Titans
>Pilot Zaku

Humiliation Ritual

>>23333977
I mean, we kinda sorta did? The PASGT is sorta designed off the Stahlhelm and we adopted some of the designs used in German weapons. Our aircraft were more or less German derived as well. The situation in Zeta is more in the nose because the federation literally repurposed existing Zeon factories which were already tooled up for Zakus to build Hizacks. It would be like if the US took over a T72 factory and had it start churning out T72s with western equipment slapped on/in it

>>23334040
because the engineers working for Zeon werent imprisoned or anything. They were just people who's management changed. When you ask a guy who knows how to build a Zaku to build you a mobile suit, he is going to build you a Zaku

>>23340115
I think these drone Nemos hit more enemies than the piloted ones ever did

>>23340667
The Nemos are actually rather competent in ZG, it's just the cameo appearances that have re-characterized them as shitboxes.

>>23333515
The US independently developed aircraft far more advanced than those of the Germans. The only thing you're right about is the space program, of which very few were Nazi scientists, and of which the vast majority of groundwork was laid by Americans.

>>23335314
Isn't that Hathaway's flash you're thinking of? Where people start asking questions like "hey, where are these terrorists getting weapons?" And so we get the SNRI?