I see a lot of criticize it but I really liked Stardust Memory

>>23336077 (OP)
Lots of people like 0083, it's got flaws, but it mostly contrarians shitting on it to be different.

I havnt watched 0083 in a long time, I need to watch it again. I NEED THE MAGIC.

>>23336077 (OP)
As a kid, I liked the mecha and mecha battles.

As an adult, I realized how flawed the storytelling was and how bizzarre Nina is as a character.

>>23336134
Sounds like you un-matured, Nina is well-written

>>23336077 (OP)
looks great, great music, decent plot, really bad ass use of tactical nukes
>BUT
the main protagonist turns out to be a wet blanket
and they fumble the ending so badly you just say WHAT THE FUCK MAN
how do you write a main character that stupid and unlikeable
AND THEN you make the main love interest EVEN MORE retarded

Nina works for Anaheim. So of course, she's playing both sides.

>>23336077 (OP)
none can negate its animation quality and production, all the mechanical details and stuff
but the plor becomes godawful in the second half with Kou and Nina being among the most unlikeable cunts ever

>>23336077 (OP)
It's a really good show
People criticizes the characters for being cucks and cunts

Was Gato being Nina's ex always planned or was that added in later for drama?

>>23336200
the fact they don't even recognize each other in the first fucking episode should make that clear

>>23336200
this >>23336203
also it was presented by the second director

>>23336077 (OP)
When I watched it I was also balls deep in the UC and Tomino shows, and I felt like the story was lackluster in comparison to the stuff it was based on.
Story was kinda just conventional and there in order to facilitate high budget animation.
Which does look gorgeous.

After GQuuuuuuX my opinion on this show is changing. I think I'd probably rate it a little more highly than I did when I first watched it.
If GQuuuuuuX is good at anything it's made me want to rewatch a lot of Gundam.

The Winner or Men of Destiny?

The winner, easily.

Back to Paradise.

>>23336087
>anyone that says anything bad about thing I like is a contrarian
Faggot

>>23336200
The original director passed away before the second half could be written/storyboarded or something.

>>23336264
Men of Destiny is way better.

>>23336077 (OP)
still my favorite gundam ova.

>>23336077 (OP)
First half is the platonic ideal of how I want Gundam to be portrayed. The sounds, visuals, designs, etc are the peak of perfection.

>>23336343
No one died on 0083, Mitsuo Kase just stepped away from the production after ep 7, and Takashi Imanishi took over. The speculation is that there was a big shake-up with the outline after Kase left. However AFAIK that is just speculation, and Imanishi was already working with Kase in a co-director role on eps 2-7 anyway, so whether or not it really had that much of an impact isn't clear
It was 08th MS Team where the director (Takeyuki Kanda) died halfway through the production, with someone else stepping in to complete it based on the notes Kanda left behind. I think people sometimes get their wires crossed between the two OVAs which both happened to have their directors replaced halfway in

>>23336077 (OP)
>I see a lot of criticize it
Why is no one mentioning the over abundance of ESL ops.

>>23336398
If you can decipher ESL, and you genuinely have to complain about it, you aren't really an english speaker

>>23336398
This is /m/, you should be used to the fact you're dealing with a significant number of Brazilians and SEA Monkeys by now

>>23336134
Nina is a woman, women would do all that shit and more for Gato.

>>23336457
well maybe if Kou ** wasn't such a pussy ass bitch who should have done his fucking job that day I wouldn't be half as upset as I was when I saw the ending. He was a fucking terrorist god damn it! Jesus. It's like everyone just had severe memory loss in the last 2 episodes and they forgot all of the people they knew who had died. Fucking A **

>>23336392
I think it is because both OVAs suffer from a decline after the first half.

>>23336077 (OP)
The only crit. I have is they did not animate the impact in Nebraska.

>>23336744
>He was a fucking terrorist god damn it!
He was the Nightmare of Solomon is what he was! He fought for the ideals of Zeon! And on this board, Anavel Gato is a hero. End of story!

>>23336077 (OP)
its top gun in space its based. anyone who thinks Nina is unrealistic is either th luckiest man alive or never seen a woman before

I don't think it matters whether you buy into nina as a character in regards to finding her annoying and her arc unsatisfying. Betrayals in gundam are nothing new, it's that she's totally limp wristed about it. Cima cackles over the mic and goes "lol get betrayed losers!" and everyone likes her.
Nina does it and then the narrative kind of pussy foots around whether it condemns her and then in the ending they just stand her up in front of the camera and basically shrug and say "well, that's all folks!".

>>23336077 (OP)
>>23336087
It's mostly people being assmad that they got fucked after self inserting as Kou. Normal people who aren't retarded think it's fine

>>23337517
Why would you self insert as a Japanese guy?

>>23337517
Normal people self-insert as the GP01Fb.

Literally the only problem anyone has with 0083 is the ending, in particular Nina not getting any kind of comeuppance despite deliberately helping the enemy. If the ending had Nina being court martialed at the end everyone would be proclaiming it was the best Gundam ever.

For the record 0080 is the best Gundam ever.

>>23337630
Isn't that kind of realistic. War criminals getting off scott free?

>>23336077 (OP)
>>23336087
>>23336109
It's cool but the love triangle was cringe. The mecha design was top notch and there is a lot of robot porn.

certain individuals benefit from extra leniency from society. in that regard it is realistic.

>>23336196
one is a very big and sexy cunt

that whole era of gundam was fantastic. CGI gundam is fine but it's very difficult to make fights feel violent and chunky like those fights did back in the early 90s.

Heavy, heavy top gun type vibes- but the anime medium lets them dial it up so much further. We'll never see anything like it again.

>>23337574
Be quiet Setsuna, couldn't have have at least picked one of the cooler gundams?

>>23337498
This. The show doesn't do enough character work for her betrayal to hit and the ending makes her out to still be happy about going back to Kou.
I would have preferred for her to take full heel turn and just rub it in. It would have atleast made this shitshow entertaining.

>>23337498
Nina is written like a woman, Cima is written like a person.

>>23337468
this, its a great gundam series, and has a realistic women depicted

>>23336382
you vill consume the moegundam and you vill be happy

>>23337517
Why the fuck would anyone want to self-insert as Kou?

>>23338215
cause hes tom cruise and theyre manlets duh

>>23337957
It doesn't help since Unicorn even when they do make OVAs they neglect the mechanical inner workings in animation like the old OVAs in favor of tron line Magic instead.

>>23336077 (OP)
Good animation

>>23338333
I like how it makes use of light and shadow. It's an aspect of the medium that Gundam rarely takes advantage of (I think F91 is the only other entry that really does). It's a comparatively small thing, but it stands out

wow its like you faggots dont know the meaning of "hate fuck"

>>23337498
Cima betrays the literal angry nazis with nukes and gets punished for it while Nina literally gets away with actual crimes

The only thing wrong with 0083 is that the main character isn't someone you want to see yourself as...even though you definitely would have made the same mistakes.
Instead everyone wants to be the mega chad Gato.
>Who gets the Gundam
>Who gets the nukes
>Who gets to blow up shit
>Who gets the girl
>Who goes out in a blaze of glory

>>23338412
Kou is just fucking mediocre

>>23338373
It's funny because Cima has never been recruitable in a Super Robot Wars game, but Gato has. I guess Japanese just like him more.

>>23338373
Cima betrays her allies but cries the blues when she gets betrayed
Nina didn’t technically do anything wrong and steal feels at least some guilt

>>23338426
>Cima betrays her allies
Cima not once has ever considered Delaz her ally after they fucked her over
>cries the blues when she gets betrayed
I too would cry if a literal manchild decided to attack you over the ace pilot in the mobile armor

>>23338424
Gihren Greed tries to make partnering up with Cima and preventing the naval nuke a negative alignment option but I don't give a fuck I'm picking it everytime

>>23338432
Sure she did. She derided the very idea of defecting to the Federation in episode 7 when the Val Walo. She just changed her mind opportunistically based on what gets her the most gain.

>>23338443
>She derided the very idea of defecting
Utterly and completely irrelevant to her considering Delaz her ally, two things can be true at once.

>>23338449
Yes - Cima had no intention of betraying Delaz, and then she later did. She is an incredibly bad person.

>>23338461
>Cima had no intention of betraying Delaz
This is never stated ever, infact you might be dumber than Gato(who knew from the start involving Cima is a bad idea, Mayfly of Space shows she already tried to attack Zeon once before), did you really think she would have helped Delaz if her ship had conveniently gotten the Val Waro so it could be piloted by one of her men specifically? Do you SERIOUSLY think the next episode over she can arrange a meeting with the commander of th EFSF just by chance? People like you are why stories need to spell things out

>>23338479
Damn, you okay anon?
It makes no sense for her to deride the idea of defecting to the Federation unless she has no plan to do so at that moment, full stop.

>>23338412
SOLOMON I HAVE RETURNED!

>>23338424
Gato is basically very similar to Kou, he’s an honorable type that would give his life for his allies and ideals. The cause he’s been caught up in is what makes him controversial.
Cima has been sanitized quite a bit by other works like G Gen DS, but she’s pretty despicable in the 0083 OVA itself. Doesn’t care about her subordinates, gets no punishment for her war crimes other than being turned away by Axis, no real ideals other than self-preservation.

>>23338319
Yeah. Those kind of shots only really work when you are hand drawing everything.

IBO really tried to make things feel physical, clunky and heavy again.I can't remember a single fight with beam weapons or sabers. I wish it got more credit for that reason.

>>23338535
Feel free to post exactly what she said.

>>23338566
>Cima has been sanitized quite a bit by other works like G Gen DS,
Those games use Mayfly Of Space CD drama for those references, which came out together with 0083

>>23338535
>It makes no sense for her to deride the idea of defecting to the Federation unless she has no plan to do so at that moment, full stop.
She realize got burnt middle of the battle when things got so out of hand not even the feds could sweep for it. Once the colony reached a point of being unable to be stop, Cima was a liability to them, because if she's still alive and brought in she knows she's taking full blame for why the op failed and they arent gonna let her defect, it'll be just like when Zeon told her to do the first colony drop then left her ass to dry.

>>23338577
>「モビルアーマーぶらさげて連邦に投降かい?!」
>”You’re surrendering to the Federation with the mobile armor?!”
At best, you can suggest she just really wants the Val Waro for herself. Otherwise, defecting hasn’t crossed her mind by that point.

>>23338606
That's what I thought, you inserted nonsense where it doesn't belong, she was planned to pick up the Val Waro to use on her own and her collaborators aren't present at Von Braun nor was her allegiance known yet and kept secret as we know by the next episode where they fake a attack. The only conclusion she could make is that Kelly lost it and is trying to surrender the Val Walo because he knows she isn't taking him with her

>>23338609
By the way, this is exactly why she sends Kult to his death, because she realized he fucked up her plans

shouldn't she look a bit younger?

>>23338609
I inserted nothing. My interpretation of the line is in line with the common interpretation. Cima hadn’t decided to defect at that point.
>What, are you taking the mobile armor for yourself?!
is what you would expect her to say if she was already planning to defect. Her bringing up surrendering to the Federation, as if it’s foolish idea, makes no sense if she had already decided to do so herself.

>>23336077 (OP)
It's got insanely good animation. But the Nina makes the ending unbearable

>>23336343
Wrong, that was 8th not 0083

>>23338625
>I inserted nothing
>I "inserted"
I can't believe it but somehow I managed to find someone who can't understand the simple plot of Stardust Memory.

>No you see, Cima right after going to pick up the Val Walo just happened to have a meeting with Green Wyatt exactly right after this occurs, but you see she did not decide to work with the federation, it was just a house call.

>>23338632
>Cima and the Federation both suspected that their meeting an episode later was a trap, because they already were collaborating, and it definitely wasn’t decided after the Val Waro was destroyed
Get real.

>>23338635
You just exposed yourself, Cima did not suspect Green Wyatt and Green Wyatt did not suspect Cima, infact Green Wyatt was fucking pissed Albion ruined the meeting, you are literally making shit up

>>23338635
>Federation both suspected
This is suspecting to you? Fucking watch the anime instead of speedwatching, I bet you think Cima rushed the Val Waro just because she felt like it

>>23336077 (OP)

I liked it, just the whole love triangle scenario seems shoe-horned in. Kou dealing with NIna who happened to hook up with Gato back in the days. lol What are the chances.

>>23338636
>>23338639
Your arrogance matches your ignorance. Good job.

>>23338646
Green Wyatt does not suspect Cima, thanks for being retarded.

>>23338373
>>23337498
Cima didn't betray them she took revenge. Zeon hung her out to dry post OYW and she made a deal with the EFF/ not yet Teetons to backstab them like they did to her and her battalion. And it wasn't just post OYW they also had her witness the G3 gas attacks and was denied her request to go to axis when Zeon surrendered and scapegoated for 'war crimes' she was ordered to do.

>>23338646
By the way, Cima stopped suspecting him the moment he was actually present which is also why she didn't immediately believe it was a trap when the Albion showed up., almost like they had a plan to meet and that's why she needed the Val Waro to be finished in a day

almost like, you need to plan ahead if you need to meet with one of the highest ranked federation officers around, and you can't just make up a meeting like this on the spot.

>>23336077 (OP)
I liked it too but that shit with Nina was awful and I'm glad that Kitty socked her in for her bullshit.
Still, one thing that surprises me about this show is that the main cast are all adults and they didn't shoehorn a kid character.

>>23338654
Didn’t say he did. The officer next to him is suspicious. Which he wouldn’t be if they had a working relationship already.
>>23338661
And likewise, the officer next to Cima is suspicious, while she answers “We’ll know in a moment”. Which she wouldn’t say if she had a working relationship already.

It’s unreasonable to think that she was planning to defect all along, or that she was already involved with the Federation from the beginning. There is ONLY evidence to the contrary.

>>23338687
>Cima wasn't planning all along because two people who aren't Cima and the person she was planning to work with aren't confident in her personal plan

You make literally zero sense.
>It is unreasonable to think she is planning to defect when the next thing we see Cima do after her debut appearance is go to Von Braun and coincidentally rush Kelly to finish the Val Walo to then meet Green Wyatt the next episode which lines up exactly for why she needed to leave port so early
is effectively what you're saying you just sound like someone who cannot piece together story beats which goes all the way back to what I said here
Next you'll think she actually didn't want to bring Kelly along because he was a cripple

>>23336744
>It's like everyone just had severe memory loss in the last 2 episodes and they forgot all of the people they knew who had died.

This a Gundam trope. Don't you know? The last 3 episodes is when everyone losses 20 IQ points and acts stupid.

It's practically a tradition by this point.

I can't think of a single Gundam anime where this didn't occur.

>>23338687
>or that she was already involved with the Federation from the beginning.
She would need to be involved with someone in the federation to even organize a secret meeting with federation top brass.

>>23338662

>>23338692
>because two people who aren't Cima
And also Cima. She was the one who floated the idea that it was a setup on the Lily Marleen’s bridge. Wyatt is the only one going into the negotiation completely calm, and once he signals his intent by intentionally missing the Lily Marleen, Cima is at ease. As you suggest, it isn’t hard to follow.

>>23338702
Why is “I’m a mercenary with the Delaz Fleet and I want to meet with the Birmingham to hand over operational details on Operation Stardust in exchange for clemency” not enough?

>>23338715
And pray tell, how exactly would she get in contact with one of the most important people of the federation literally last minute like you're implying? Cima is a infamous pirate not some unknown entity.

>>23338708
>Lamenting touching your dick to a well drawn pretty woman
Gay!

>>23338722
The Federation of 0083 is complacent. Somebody passed the message up, Wyatt said “yeah sure, let’s see what she has to say” despite people around him suspecting a trap.

>>23338752
And in your narrative, why did Cima plan to trick Kelly and on top of that, needed him to finish the Val Waro in one day, where did she need to go?

https://www.gundam0083.net/character/z07.html
This discussion is retarded considering that the character bio for Cima literally states
>反対に、主義主張よりは利ある側につくタイプで、裏切りも何とも思わない。デラーズ・フリートへの参加も、最初からデラーズを連邦に売り渡す予定でのことらしい

>>23338732
Man, I've got shit to do!

>>23338732

I cranked it twice already just before looking at that pic. I gotta save the reserves man, seeing that pic was totally unexpected.

>>23338759
She didn't need Val Walo, Delaz did at Gato's suggestion because he liked Kelly. She was just sent there. Her real objective was getting GP04 and outfitting it to look like Zeon tech. Kou just interfered and destroyed it.

>>23338779
see
>>23338773

Stop this retarded argument, you're wrong.

>>23338759
She wanted the Val Waro for her own purposes, and didn’t care to pick up some straggler. This is in line with her caring more for her Gelgoogs than the people in them.
She wanted it done quickly to not be hung up on the moon unnecessarily long. With Operation Stardust progressing along, whether she’s with Zeon or not, there isn’t a ton of time to waste.

>>23338773
Something written after the fact isn’t all that interesting. I’m only concerned with, as episodes 5-7 were released, was she set to be planning to defect already?

>>23338784
Literally doesn't matter, as far as we're concerned and what you two should've realized is that the word of god states she always planned to betray them, I don't see how you plan to argue otherwise.

>>23338780
Nothing in that has anything to do with what I said. I was saying that Val Walo was not her objective it was Delaz's to bolster his forces, getting the GP04 and refitting it was. She just took the opportunity to gain Delaz's trust and get what she needed from Anaheim.

>>23338786
Retcons don’t matter, we’re discussing the original work, where Cima’s intent is in question. And this isn’t some new observation I just made up - look on any Japanese site that talks about her at length.

>>23338798
Other Japanese sites state

>大義のためには死すら厭わないアナベル・ガトーとは対照的に、主義主張よりは利のある側につくタイプで、そのためには裏切りもなんとも思わない。デラーズ・フリートの星の屑作戦への参加も、エギーユ・デラーズを連邦に売り渡すことを想定してのことである。ただし、シーマの主義が決して利己的な理由から来ているわけではなく、部下たちからは慕われている。

and I can definitely post more like

>第5話(宇宙世紀0083年10月)、デラーズの招きに応じてデラーズ・フリートに参加したのが初登場。コロニージャックなどを担当するが、本心ではジオンを許しておらず、ジオンに復讐し連邦へ寝返るため地球連邦軍大将グリーン・ワイアットなどのタカ派と裏取引[4]を進めていた。

Why the fuck should I care what some jackoffs think on Pixiv specifically?

Especially when they already have a article about Mayfly
>宇宙世紀0083年。一年戦争時にコロニーへの毒ガス注入などの汚れ仕事をさせられていた事で戦犯として追われていたジオン公国軍突撃機動軍海兵隊MAUCIMAことシーマ艦隊は星の屑作戦によって地球連邦に一矢報いろうとするジオン残党軍デラーズ・フリートに参加していた。

>だが海兵隊の隊長シーマは自分達を散々踏みにじったジオンの栄光に復讐するべく、連邦にデラーズらを売ろうと密かに暗躍していた・・・

I don't really care if you think its a retcon or not, I'm pointing out that this argument which started from someone saying Cima was never loyal to Delaz is pretty much EXACTLY what's said by Sunrise.

>>23338794
Delaz wanted Val Waro, and like I said she plotted to trick Kelly so she could have it for herself, you aren't really arguing anything new

>>23338828
The second and third blocks of text there are perfectly accurate. She plotted to sell Delaz out. The question is just if she did from the very beginning or if it was an opportunistic call. That’s all we disagree on.

>>23338844
… I just realized this is a very silly argument over a very minor distinction. I’m bowing out anon. Sorry for all the trouble.

>>23338844
She stopped being loyal to Zeon after she was thrown under the bus by them when she wanted to go with the retreating Zeon to Axis.

>>23338798
It is not like what you posted is the only thoughts on the matter
>>>23338798
>ただしワイアットとの交渉前にはヴァル・ヴァロ受領に向かっており、見方によってはどっち付かずともいえる立ち回りをしていたうえ、ガンダムとの決闘を所望したケリィを見て「モビルアーマーぶらさげて連邦に投降かい?!」と漏らしている。 ここから、連邦に着くかデラーズに属したままにするか、ギリギリまで天秤にかけていたという解釈も見られる。 逆に、連邦側で働くにせよ別の勢力に付くにせよヴァル・ヴァロは所有して腐る兵器ではなく、彼女たちが欲しがるのは単純に考えて妥当ではある。ぶっちゃけ連邦軍だって欲しい*8。ケリィへの発言も、シーマ自身がそうしようとしていたからそう推測した、という解釈ももちろん成り立つ。


But at the end of the day I don't see the point in trying to figure it out, based on everything we know NOW it is likely she always had some plan to screw over Delaz

>>23338854
Yeah it’s really a minor distinction at best. Idk what I was thinking.

Its not perfect, but the only glaring blunder is Nina not recognizing Gato in episode 1 which clashes with the retroactive setting that they used to be an item.

The rest is honestly fine. Kou is a good character and I like his arc of going from a military tech otaku to an actual pilot after awakening to the weight of the responsibility he carries as a soldier. The fact that he doesnt win at the end lends the ending a melancholic sense of realism, I think its not a bad resolution even if I would have liked to see the duel end differently.

>>23338558
Probably my favorite line and scene of the whole show

>>23336077 (OP)
Originally I didn't know there was an OVA and I saw Afterglow of Zeon instead and I was like yup I totally see why people hate this

>>23338869
How can she recognize someone she didn’t see or hear the entire episode.
Do we really have to force another person to rewatch the fucking scene again?

>>23338869
>Its not perfect, but the only glaring blunder is Nina not recognizing Gato in episode 1 which clashes with the retroactive setting that they used to be an item.
There's another glaring blunder. Kou would never be allowed to keep the Gundam after the first attack. He was literally a frwahvacademy graduate with ZERO combat experience. It doesn't matter how high his simulator scores were. The Gundam would be given to a more experienced pilot like Burning, Monsha, or the other 2 pilots.

>>23336134
>As a kid, I liked the mecha and mecha battles.
so do I. They was great. Story was nonsense.

>>23339264
irl in military you get selected either through connections or educations
>>23339264
>Burning, Monsha, or the other 2 pilots.
maybe they lack something

>>23339264
Did the other possible pilots even go to the frwahvacademy? Maybe it's very prestigious.

>>23339264
Burning was injured after the retrieval mission failed with a broken leg
Nina had the right to choose the pilot and Monsha was a retard towards her
The other two didn't seem interested
Keith was fine running support

>>23339330
So what your saying is Nina screwed with the test results? Typical.

>>23339348
No, Kou is a decent pilot just lacked experience. Once he got some he did fine. He just didn't realize he was a small fish is a big pond dealing with plots far larger than he realized.

>>23338869
Nah it's fine, the scene is dark and after it's very much a case of
>if people find out i was in a relationship with the man who just stole a secret weapon that he shouldn't know about I might get suspected of leaking intel/taken of the gundam for a conflict of interest.
I think Nina is a really well written character, a great portrayal of a certain type of women one who gets pumped and dumped and still chooses that guy. The real glaring problem with the show and the reason most people are left with a sour taste after the ending is because she never gets her comeuppance. Kou does his time but Nina aids and abets a terrorist that goes on to kill a bunch of people and a warship afterward but doesn't receive any sort of punishment and the story doesn't reprimand her in any way. Actually again probably true to real life but not satisfying in a story format.

>>23339370
>No, Kou is a decent pilot just lacked experience.
You can't be a decent pilot without experience.

>>23339407
He had some just not in actual raw combat. Once he got his feet wet he was doing a lot better. But his fundamentals were solid.

>Nina calls Kou childish
>while fawning over a space nazi that loves "literally hitler" gihren purely because he's charming and charismatic

I remember seeing artwork of Kou and Nina's reunion with him shooting her in the head a long time ago, but I could never find it again.

Can we all agree that Keith lucked out?

>>23339445
Literally the only healthy couple in the show.

>>23339445
He didn't luck out he was the winner
A man of destiny

>>23339445
B I G
B R A Z I L L I O N
B O O T Y

>>23339445
Is Keith a manlet or is Mora an amazon?

>>23339419
>He had some
When? He was taking classes when the series started.

>>23339434
Sounds exactly like most women anon.
>>23339407
He was a talented amateur that was trying to catch up to a talented war vet, ace in a very short time.

>>23339605
>He was a talented amateur that was trying to catch up to a talented war vet, ace in a very short time.
He was a spoiled amateur that was carried by his Gundam. Even Gato mocked him for his lack of skill. Kou could not achieve anything without the Gundam. Kou in a GM would get smashed by the same enemies.

>>23339611
>spoiled
Yes? I agree. Kou acts like a spoiled autistic kid at times. That doesn't mean he was a bad pilot comparatively.
>mocked him
Oh yeah, the fucking ace pilot mocked a trainee with only mock simulation combat in his first ever real fight. Gee he must be shit then.

>>23339611
>Char mocked Amuro for his lack of skill and being carried by the Gundam
>HELP ME GELGOOG-SAMA HELP ME ZEONG-SAMA PROTECT ME WITH YOUR SPECS

>>23339593
He was a test pilot. Simulated combat instills good fundamentals.

>>23339445

>>23339627
Is Kou a super newtype? One of the greatest in history? No?

Well then your point is irrelevant. Char was dealing with a lot more with Amuro than Gato was dealing with Kou.

Char would kill Kou in 5 seconds.

>>23339611

When kou was piloting the dendrobium gato was clearly shown to be disadvantaged piloting the neu zeil in comparison.
If kou didnt lose his AI field generator in his charge to the colony gato wouldntve got as far as he did against him since his arsenal consisted of only beam weaponry while kous didnt.
When they fought with the gundams in episode 10 they gave you the impression that kou was still a naive amateur in the scuffle but in reality he noticed gatos disabled arm and immediately capitalized on it.
By the end of the OVA kou was the better pilot on equal terms.

>>23339627
Can you imagine? The reason why Char survives and things happen as they do is because one Zeon engineer decided on his piss break to put the cockpit in the head.
>>23339659
>is Kou a super newtype
Retard. This only makes Kou more impressive because he wasn't a super special newtype.

>>23339623
>Oh yeah, the fucking ace pilot mocked a trainee with only mock simulation combat in his first ever real fight. Gee he must be shit then.

Are you implying a veteran Zeon ace pilot can't tell if another pilot is shit or not? How stupid.

>>23339659
>Is Kou a super newtype? One of the greatest in history? No?
Except Amuro is a monster even without his newtype powers.

>>23339670
His mocking amounted to
>your inexperienced
Not "your a shit pilot". If Gordon Ramsy mocks all his trainees does that mean they're talentless?

>>23339681
>put more power to the verniers you fucking donkey
>i've fought monkeys that can pilot a mobile suit better than you

>>23339588
A bit of both I think

>>23339623
If Gato says you are a shit pilot then you are a shit pilot.

>>23339681

>Gato: This kid has absolutely no skills.

>Gato: Who the hell do you think you are to take me on? You are a complete joke.

Gato was ROASTING Kou.

>>23338412
Everyone hates it when I say that the 99% of the hate 0083 gets is from people who got burned by self inserting as Kou. Everyone hates it because they hate to admit it. I am fond of Kou because he is just a guy who got a little lucky, not a lot lucky. He is a rarity amongst Gundam protags. His story is very simple though, and it's everyone around him who has a more interesting story, which is also fine. 0083's overarching story plays out just fine imo. Probably the most questionable thing is the episode that really accentuates Kou's terminal autism and has him help fix the enemy mobile armor that he only ends up blowing up immediately after with his Gundam

>>23339681
>If Gordon Ramsy mocks all his trainees does that mean they're talentless?
To be fair some of them are talentless.

If you're gonna self-insert as anyone in Stardust Memory, it's Keith. At least his woman doesn't betray him.

>>23340005
>He is a rarity amongst Gundam protags
He's not likeable, he's not cool, and he straight up loses. He might as well have just gone home at the start of the series for how positive his influence is. He's the one time "hey, should this guy really be piloting the gundam?" is actually easily answered with a flat no, which is pretty devastating to the "muh adult trained soldier!" crowd.

I dunno why you keep insisting people self insert as him because I've never seen anyone who even likes him. Obviously people don't insert as blatant losers with annoying personalities.

>>23339264
Kou was a newtype even if they didn’t want to mention it

>>23340062
I think Shinn is less of a loser than Kou.

>>23340005
>>23340008

>I am fond of Kou because he is just a guy who got a little lucky, not a lot lucky.

He didn't get lucky he's a literal mobile suit/armor autist. Kou has actual skill and the skill comes how much time he spends researching and crunching spec calculations, which he then has to translate into actual piloting experience, and gen that he did so in a timeframe even shorter than Amuro, that makes him highly talented. The claim that Kou was unfit to pilot a gundam is retarded because gundam is full of people who were unfit to pilot mobile suits, hell that was literally the first 3 protags. This is what>>23336087 means when it comes to people shitting on 0083. You have all these people taking offense about shit they don't even understand like what makes Kou pretty endearing in the first place.

>>23340126
For>>23340062

>Kou hates carrots.
Gee I wonder why.

Carrotman is fine, I don't get why you're screeching at him.

>>23340126
The difference is that Amuro had no choice but to pilot the Gundam. Amuro didn't want to do it. He just wanted to be an engineer nerd but was forced into piloting

Meanwhile Kou actively steals the Gundam instead of using his authorized suit (a GM Or Zaku 2). Bear in mind that Kou has had ZERO training on this new Gundam. He could have easily screwed up the launch. And then Kou throws a massive hissyfit when people try to take the Gundam away.

And you keep claiming Kou is some sort of super obsessive genius number cruncher mobile suit fan, but when Kou actually calculated things himself he screwed it up. His calculations messed up the Gundam and Cima half destroyed his suit during a space battle.

>>23339568
her last name is Borscht

Does anyone have that screencap of Gato insulting Kou over and over while doing petty evil things like stealing candy from a child?

>>23340166
>when Kou actually calculated things himself he screwed it up. His calculations messed up the Gundam and Cima half destroyed his suit during a space battle.

The whole point was to show that he forgot to account for space, because he's never actually been in space, let alone the realized the Gpo1 was only ever specd for ground. So that's not only a reality check, but also a humbling lesson for him about paper and practice. He then quickly adapted to that reality and bonded with Nina over learning more about the gundam with her. Kou has faults but he an unreasonable hard headed fuck.

>>23340178
Here.

>>23338412
>Gato
>chad
he is a bigger retard than Kou.

>>23340005
>'Kou haters just self inserted as him' cope
He is just not an interesting character.
Him willingly offering to help a zeon loyalist make a war machine that would kill many innocent people cause he feels sad as well as that tone deaf montage, made me lose any semblance of respect I had for Kou or 0083.
I couldn't give two shit about him being 'cucked', in fact I would have preferred that if the show had balls and manage to go all the way with it instead of skirting around the topic and trying to backtrack on it.

>>23340126
I'm saying nobody likes him and you come back "yeah but he's also super autistic!". I was supposed to be swayed by this?
>>23340187
Okay so he's super autistic, and he didn't notice he was piloting a ground type suit. If I met an autistic dude and he pointed out a model of train and it wasn't even remotely correct I'd just assume he's retarded, not autistic.
>unreasonable hard headed fuck
Again, I thought you were trying to convince us to like him. You just keep calling him things that describe extremely unpleasant people.

>>23340187
>Gpo1 was only ever specd for ground.
This is incorrect. Gp01 is fully capable of operating in space. It just needed some minor adjustments to the balancer - - - which Kou screwed up.

Not even a rookie teenage Amuro would make such a mistake.

>>23339672
Amuro is carried by his newtype sense he'd have died half a dozen times in the show if it wasn't for his newtype sense. He needed it and someone else sacrificing themselves for him to not die to the Tri-Stars practically half his fights after he awakens he needs to lean into his newtype sense to not lose.

>>23339247

What do you mean people hate, the movie or the whole OVA?

https://files.catbox.moe/cp1j70.mp4

>>23340201
Thank you
It goes a little different from what I remembered

>>23340247
>It just needed some minor adjustments to the balancer
So you're saying in needed to be re spec'd for space? How am i wrong again? You do that Gpo1 and Gpo1b are two different specs, right? And Amuro wouldn't have to worry about that mistake because he has to worry about that mistake with the Rx-78.

>>23340254
Maybe kou should've tried to be a newtype and then maybe he wouldn't have failed at absolutely everything.

>>23339393
I'm starting to appreciate Nina more as a character.

>>23340270
>spec'd for space
Uh no. You seem to not understand Gp01's design.

All the equipment is contained in the different core fighters, and be swapped out for different equipment. It's very similar to the Striker Packs from Gundam Seed and Strike Gundam.

Gp01 can be ENHANCED for space combat by swapping to a core fighter that has bigger boosters attached. But Gp01 doesn't need to do this to operate in space. It can operate in space without it.

Similar to how Strike Gundam doesn't NEED the Aile Striker Pack to fly around in space. The Aile Pack is simply an enhancement.

It still had to be respec'd, Kou only had the ground type core fighter to work with, they lost the other one during gato's first raid, when they had to shoot down the spy escaping in it. And the one they had left had to be revamped into FB. Simply swapping core fighters was no longer and option, and why Kou was head strong about his calculations because it's pretty much the word of the pilot whose gonna be actually operating it against the word of the person who made the gundam with expected parameters but has never tested themselves, again it's that whole practice and paper thing being shown. Kou still fucked up sure, but that still him getting humble and learning better cooperation.

>>23340333
>learning better cooperation.
Let me rephrase that, it him learning about needing to trust others with his life at times than just himself, which is why Nina backstabbing him hit him really hard at the end.

>>23340246
NTA but I would describe Kamille using very negative words and he is one of if not my favorite Gundam protagonist. Same with Amuro as well. I think you are just autistic

>>23336077 (OP)
>>23336077 (OP)
0083 rebellion really improves it and makes it shine.

>>23340246
> and he didn't notice he was piloting a ground type suit.

As one anon state Gp01 can be both space and ground but they only had one core fighter tuned and spec'd for space. It was shot down because a spy stole it. The core fighter left was only tuned for ground so it's not he knew it his core fighter was only spec'd for ground.

>>23340391
I recently started reading it and it's good so far (Chobham Armor GP01 is cool and Miller is so hot goddamn why is this bitch so smug) but I think the memberberries are a bit much

>>23340379
>I think you are just autistic
So you're saying you like me.

>>23340391
Retard L take. Both this and GoL are fucking messes that fix nothing and think hype and aura are suitable replacements for plot and characters

>>23336781
THIS

>>23340391
>Make Nina anneven bigger cunt
>Improvement
L O L
O
L

>>23340391
Yeah okay I'm >>23340417 and I take it all back, this shit is so ass

>>23340161
What about Pickleman?

The only real problems I have ever had with 0083 are Nina getting away with what she did and kou going AWOL and repairing a zeon mobile armor.

>>23340187
>>23340333
>>23340270
No such thing. The GP01 can operate in space. Nina even said so in the anime. Kou just needed to take her data disc and insert it into the Gundam.

The GP01 FB we saw in the show is not the original configuration. It's a complete rebuild of the suit after Kou destroyed half of it. Originally you only swap the core fighter for the FB mode.

>>23340132
Why?

>>23341448
It's a voice actor joke. Kou's Japanese voice actor is the same as Vegeta from Dragon Ball.

>>23341465
Ka ka carrot cake.

>>23336077 (OP)
I think a lot of the dislike with 0083 comes from everything surrounding Nina at the end

>>23340391
isn't this the one that makes gato survive for some retarded reason?

>>23341723
Yep, all they had to do was give her an equal punishment to Kou or at the very least show her actions had consequences like losing Kou.

>>23341744
It's open ended. When they checked the pod it was empty, and Gato's damaged helmet was found nearby. For all we know he got head trauma then walked off into the wilderness in a fugue state and died all alone, or maybe he was taken in by the locals and married some nativegirl, fuck knows

>>23338662

Thanks a fucking lot, ever since I saw this pic of Cima now I've been searching for lewds of her and can't stop cranking it to a pic I found of her groping her big fucking tits and urinating while spreading eagle.

>>23342046
wowee

>>23341723
She just overshadows that the entire primary cast triangle are all awful. Kou is just totally uninteresting and unlikable, and Gato is every annoying Zeon writing trope rolled into one. Nina is mostly just dull until her character assassination.
Without Nina doing her thing it'd be a lot easier to ignore the flaws and I think a LOT more people would place it as their favorite for the designs and combat, but I don't think it'd ever be considered well written.
>>23342036
Yeah that means he lived. You don't go through all that work of having him suddenly get saved, fly right out of the story, leave further hints of survival, and even have him killed off on paper so no one would look for him without it obviously being a way for the character to survive. This is every narrative tool you use to imply a character isn't dead.
Worst part is, they keep changing things people were fine with. I don't think anyone was really clamoring for gato to live. It just feels like set up for a sequel, god forbid.

>>23342162
It was a setup for the Monsha-specific volumes that followed after the end of the colony drop

>>23342046
Here's another fine Cima Pic.
https://nhentai.net/g/14181/31/

>>23342164
Gato didn't need to die for a crazy guy to pretend to be him. If anything it might've given it a bit more weight, that they're actually chasing a ghost rather than a guy claiming to be a guy who clearly had every chance to have survived.

>>23342180
>scatswap
you discover something new everyday.

>>23342181
to that end, it's obvious to the reader that gato's alive because no explicit death means he's not dead. it's just a fucking stupid plot device for the purposes of telling a story, it's supposed to give the neo delaz slightly more credibility about whether or not they're a real threat because the feds and titans can't be sure it's not the real gato.

for the record, the story does confirm to the reader that it wasn't gato before the end of the story.

>>23342162
>>23342164
>>23342181
>>23342210
I don't understand the 0083 manga at all, or what the writer's intention is with the story.

Cima:

They completely changed the story of Cima, and fully changed her ending. She and her entire fleet escape the final battle and become truck drivers hauling helium-3 gas with new identities for the Jupiter Energy fleet. The few Cima ships we see destroyed are actually empty or on autopilot. Her ending is completely changed.


So if the author of the manga is willing to do that, then why not commit and give Gato a true ending? Why not have him survive and escape to Axis and survive to the ZZ era? It's far more interesting than giving Gato some mysterious vague unknown ending. If you are gonna change something then commit and go all the way.

>>23342233
I'm more offended that the author of the manga rewrote the final battle of Gato VS Kou, and made Kou win. It is the biggest pile of donkey crap I read. You could tell the author was bending over backwards to give Kou so many advantages, and come up with so many ways to cripple and nerf Gato and his Neue Ziel. Gato would never fight under those circumstances. Kou getting help from Cima and they double team Gato together like some weird ass tag team was just a bizzarre story telling choice. Kou would never accept help from Cima. He's a man and would want to 1v1 Gato. Clearly the author is some weird Kou fanboys and/or doesn't understand how men think.

>>23342233
Literally the only difference between your idea and the writer's end is we just know where he's staying at, he's still alive in both ends. What does it matter that he makes it to Axis or not?

>>23342258
>we just know where he's staying at,
No we don't. We have no clue.

>>23342281
Are you daft? >>23342233 literally said "have him survive and escape to Axis", that's where his idea had him go. That's literally the only fucking difference between his idea and the end of 0083 Rebellion, that >>23342233's ending would put him in a place we know instead of, I dunno, roaming the earth blind.

>>23342233
>>23342244
The author is the same director to begin with, he probably wasn't satisfied with the original versions of these scenes, I'm not shocked that he changed it so CIma lives and fucks off

>>23342570
So he wasn't satisfied with how bad Nina was, and made her EVEN WORSE? What the fuck? when she decided entirely out of her own will to help the zeeks finish Neue Ziel and directed them to La Vie en Rose I was totally flabbergasted

>>23342570
Who wouldn't

>>23342180

Yeah... not into the scat thank you very much.

>>23342288
You quoted the wrong people. You are responding to someone who agrees with you.

>>23342570
0083 had two different Directors. One that handled the first half, and another that handled the second half.

>>23340260
I meant 0083 in general. I didn't kmow there existed an actually watchable version of the story

>>23343773
Oh right yeah.

The first Director wanted to make a mecha anime inspired by Top Gun.

The second Director wanted to make an anime that had lots of drama like a soap opera.


Why allow 2 different Directors with different visions direct the same anime?

>>23343775
Is afterglow of Zeon that bad? I have always wondered how you'd condense down all 13 episodes into a single movie

I watched 0083 because of you guys recently (didn’t see episode 9 gotten take off YouTube) and I really liked it a lot. I think it was better than 08th ms team and war in the pocket in certain ways. I think for it having two directors it’s a lot better than I would have expected. The second half is worse but not to the degree I expected based on your comments. However I think maybe we would have gotten a lot more cool scenes and action with the first director and it probably would have been better. I was more bummed out about burning dying than the other characters, he was a cool dude.

>>23343941
First half of 0083 was solid. Second half of 0083 was a mess. The Nina love triangle nonsense should have never happened. 2nd director is dumb af

>>23343773
Still, the one who did the second half still is the one who wrote rebellion

>>23342641
Probably is intentional to not like her yes

>>23344363
I think most of the gundam projects I’ve seen which had some sort of romance thing in it could have just been removed entirely and the show would have been able to devote more time to cool shit happening.

>>23343976

The last few episodes didnt exist when the movie came out, they made them after the movie was made.

>>23343775

> an actual watchable version of the story

Huh?

>>23336264
The Winner up until the chrous.

I still do not understand why the script writer didn't debut the Titans before 0083. Hell even for the sake of pure show telling it would have been better to have early Titans personnel and EFSF interacting and them being backed by various different warring horses.
dark blue and white GM rivalry.
>EFSF fuck up badly this causes the Titans to be favored post 0083
>Instead of EFSF fucks up because of a internal conspiracy to create the Titans.
You do not need a grand internal conspiracy to create what started as a autonomous branch of the military.
But also when you think about it this pearl harbor esque strike attack shit was already done in Zeta Gundam, when Titans ended up losing Gates of Zedan. And of course we have the prequel disease where Operation Stardust was this really amazing important event that's never called back to in Zeta TV airing and the Novels(well duhh they were released prior to 0083) and even Zeta ANT which was released after 0083.

>>23347681
The "proto-Titans" are somewhat referenced in the Stardust memories databooks. They were the conservative faction of the Military. They believed in controlling the Spacenoids through absolute merciless strength and raw numbers. They didn't want another Zeon to rise again.