Anyone else noticing /m/ media is starting to be much less about the message and much more about cool robots and relationship drama? A lot of old /m/ stuff had that real message in which war fucks everyone up. Greed, all the human vices and power dynamics causes people to bring out the worst in each other. It's more sociological and psychological experimentation and deconstruction. Now it's just fanservice all the time. If someone dies, it's not war has caused a good person to die, it's because they were acting retarded, for shock value, for extra drama. Audience is more inclined for the oh will they reference this, will they reference that, will MC get with girl X or girl Y? It's like that one meme but it's almost no joke people are just watching for "oh wow cool robot" and it even feels like it's strictly designed that way by the creators now. I just feel like current /m/ creators doesn't have that experience or grit that helps portray an actual message and instead they just try to make something cool instead.

I'm pretty bad at articulating things so feel free to ask more if you don't understand what I'm trying to say.

>>23356194 (OP)
>If someone dies, it's not war has caused a good person to die, it's because they were acting retarded, for shock value, for extra drama
Tomino started this

>>23356196
I mean if there's another way I can put it it's what scenes do you remember the most in old gundam shows compared to new ones? I guess Thunderbolt was the closest modern thing to illicit WAR IS BAD type messaging but more on the message rather than cool robots although it did have cool robots.
>Bright Slap
>Amuro's Mother scene
>Kamille getting mindbroken
>Bernie's speech to Al after he dies
>That one Zanscare soldier talking to Uso before he kills himself
>Shakti digging her own fucking grave
How about now?
>Suletta stomps on a guy
>IBO kill em all moment
>Shuji and Machu's kiss
It all just feels kinda like the creators aren't even really focusing on the whole sociological/political/psychological aspects anymore. They may raise some points but it's either just background or accidental.

>Now it's just fanservice

>it's just fanservice

>now

>just fanservice

>>23356201
No what I remember the most about IBO is that a revolution got hijacked by a beaureaucrat from the system they were rebelling against to save said system from failing. Also the part where Atra asks Mikazuki to get her pregnant because she knows Mika's gonna die soon and wants some part of him to live on. That one sticks to me because it really drives home the point about how catastrophically fucked the PD timeline is. It's also interesting politically because Rustal does actually institute reforms and has Gjallarhorn lose some of its power, but he obviously isn't doing that because he turned into a democrat overnight. And how one of the survivors of Tekkadan tracks down Gordon to shoot him while he's taking a shit. The ending's the best part of the show imo.

>it's just fanservice now

>>23356204
>>23356207
>>23356209
>>23356211
>>23356215
And one more thing, gundam’s direct predecessor

>>23356218
>>23356215
>>23356211
>>23356209
>>23356207
>>23356204
I wish instead of sperging out you had a little bit more of an honest discussion. You can apologize and we can restart again. btw I fully think 0083 is pure crap too.

>BRO IT'S JUST FANSERVICE I'M TELLING YA THESE MODERN SHOWS AIN'T LIKE THEY USED TA BE

fuck me man why did I attract the autist dude, I just want some genuine discussion on this board.

>ITS JUST FANSERVICE

>FRIGGIN FAN SERVICING COCKSUCKERS

>>23356230
I think he’s trying to point out that even mecha anime back in the day didn’t always have the “War bad” message and even then had stories about cool robots, of course they had messages as well and so do modern shows though much differently

>>23356239
I will admit it is a bit obnoxious as well so I’ll calm him down. HEY BUDDY I ASSESSED THE SITUATION, YOU CAN STOP NOW

>>23356239
Yeah, but I think the way it's presented back then is still much different then how it is now. Now feels a lot more shallow and it's strictly purely for the story writing drama. Man fuck me I think I have something here that I think could actually be discussed but I triggered the wrong guy. Fuck dude i wish I was better at articulating my thoughts.

>>23356230
>I just want some genuine discussion
>duuudee aren't new shows like um totally sucky? old shows were soooo much better, look at my 3x3!!!
If you are unable to engage earnestly with newer shows that's on you, comparing a few late instances with 50 years of a medium all spread throughout is extremely disingenuous and your opinion sounds disinformed and ignorant at best and a bad faith shitpost at worst.

>>23356241
Some people do be like that, we’ve had a nasty history of shitposter’s and anon probably thought you were one of them even though you’re clearly not. I don’t really have much to say on this matter unfortunately

Is storytelling just different now, or has it objectively gotten worse as literacy skills decline?

>>23356194 (OP)
Your average Japanese creators are too removed from war to write about it, and Japan itself too removed from the center of the world stage to write about -isms.

>>23356244
are you the guy that had a shitfit and spammed a bunch of images?

>>23356241
Old good new bad is hardly an interesting topic.

>>23356251
>>23356244
It's not even an old good, bad new that I wanted to discuss. It's more inline with how I feel that new /m/ series feels more "dramaticized" rather than trying to present a thought or worldview. I feel like you guys are really taking this the wrong way and it's just frustrating discussing with you if you're going to take everything I type in bad faith. I already apologized if you take things the wrong way but there's really no need to be like this.

Why is it even controversial to say mecha has gotten worse? There hasn’t been any good mecha shows in the past 5-10 years

>>23356246
Off-topic.

>>23356253
>new /m/ series feels more "dramaticized"
What does that even mean, you don't think 0079 is dramatic enough? Have you seen Ideon?

>>23356255
I'm not even trying to say it's worse, I'm just saying that it feels like that one meme of
"WOW COOL ROBOTS" even though you're suppose to see the war is bad messages. but creators now a days are legit focusing more on the "WOW COOL ROBOTS" instead of actually presenting something. Maybe we get something like Anno's "leave me the fuck alone" stuff from rebuild but it's no longer like a "get out there, the world is a fuck and we need the new generation to fix it"
>>23356260
If you're willing to have more of a discussion and not sperg and take everything I type in a shit context, then I don't mind discussing but I don't feel like you're in the mindset for that.

>>23356255
Nah there's been plenty but you need a "general consensus" like a good retard.

>>23356257
Hey man thanks for proving my point about declining literacy skills.

>>23356267
Name 2.

>>23356255
I notice this with a lot of things recently. Things are "changing" but if you point them out there's a lot of people willing to dismiss it. It's why a lot of corporations and governments have more control, nobody's willing to fight or question anything anymore and the nail that isn't hammered will be hammered. I never understand why people actively shut down discussion.

>creators nowadays are legit focusing more on the "WOW COOL ROBOTS"

>>23356272
Because people are more self absorbed than ever and they just want to be right and feel good even if it means they are incorrect.

>>23356271
Bravern, Megaton Musashi.
>>23356266
Why should mecha shows be just about war? Watch more mecha or just stick to gundam.

Can I technically you know what on this guy spamming images? Not too sure if it's a good use of you know what. I don't like censorship but I feel like he's not even willing to have an open mind (ironic).

>>23356194 (OP)
I think it’s the opposite actually. It’s evafags who think every show needs to be le ebic deep psychological masterpiece with complex themes and war is bad shit where the cast is just as miserable as you are. Older shows were better because they focused on being fun. Like g gundam and wing and gaogaigar or kill la kill for non mecha. Modern shows have lost that magic.

>>23356286
ironically I think G Gundam did the whole we have to stop destroying the world for our enjoyment plot pretty well.

>>23356201
Witch from Mercury definitely is very anti-war, and it's not just about the Suletta slap. The school in G-Witch might not be a military academy designed to create soldiers, but it is creating workforce for the use of mobile suit industry. Over the course of the show, students go from viewing MS as cool things to see them as machines capable of truly hurting people. We see effects of violence in both space and Earth, and how violence only brings suffering to both kids and adults. G-Witch inherently views violence as a negative force that only contributes to a wider cycle of violence, prejudice, and suffering. No violence ever brings ultimately any good to people, and it only ends up being exploited by others. This is the overarching theme with the "curse of Gundam" in the show, a machine originally created for human progression is turned into a weapon of vengeance. In the end, the show completely rejects violence as a solution. Only when both Spacenoid and Earthnoid students openly start talking with each other and realizing they're both similar people with hopes, dreams, and important people, they start changing. And this is what the Gundams disappearing ultimately means: By everyone coming together, Gundams were able to perform a miracle that saved people without causing further suffering to anyone. Effectively, Gundams proved that they can be more than just machines capable of violence, and this is why the ghosts of Norea and Sophie were smiling at El5n in the ending.

>>23356194 (OP)
I agree, but I say it's by design.
They have already explored the original themes in the first 30 years so it's probably not the focus anymore.
I. E. Gqqux had a nod when the fed ace who was obsessed with revenge and dies unceremoniously, leaving behind a broken family, but its not the point of the series per se.

>>23356204
>>23356207
>>23356209
>>23356211
>>23356215
>>23356218
I wonder how he thought he was contributing here.

>>23356279
>Megaton Musashi.
This was a terrible anime, because it barely elevated the Game's story in a meaningful way.
It's one of the most dull 1:1 adaptations I have seen.

Not everything needs a fucking message, too many movies and shows try to force some message on you as it is. Sometime people just want to see cool shit. how often is “the message” actually done well in movies/anime? Frequently it’s contrived, pretentious, philosophy 101 shit, or just annoying with how overbearing it is in execution. it’s already hard enough to design cool shit as it is in the first place. No reason to fuck it up if you manage to get that far with stupid bullshit.


A lot of the older mech anime with a message would have done well to scale it back some and to stop wasting so much run time on melodramatic bullshit because all of the stories and lessons they are trying to tell have already been done in film. People are watching these primarily to see cool shit. It’s that simple. if the story hooks you good but that’s an extra for the most part.


You posted war in the pocket it looks like, I liked that OVA personally but I have a hard time suggesting it to anyone because they needed to scale back the run time on AL by at least 20% (which is a conservative amount some people would say 100%) and concentrate on the people fighting. there are people who really like zeon mobile suits I know but I can’t recommend them war in the pocket because I know it will be fucking boring for them during half the episodes because of how drawn out it is for sake of the “message”.

>>23356378
maybe but it does feel like the anime that does try to do the whole "message" thing it feels half ass and it's just throwing it in there because it feels like mecha shows need to always be anti violence.

>>23356272
I see 2 potential explanation but I’m sure there are more
1: the classic consoomer. This is your stereotypical guy who buys every console day 1, sees every movie in theaters and always says how great they are, guy who will always buy the newest merchandise for a franchise and post pictures of it even if it’s objectively worse than what came out a decade back. This guy exists in every fan base.


B: zoomer hubris: younger people who have a false logic who point out that “wel every generation thinks their time was best so you are just getting old lmao gotcha” but they have no critical thinking ability to realize that sometimes it’s going to be true. These younger zoomer fans also have not seen or experienced enough stuff to have an objective view on the quality of newer releases (be it games movies etc) because they have a smaller shittier palette of things they have experienced to compare things too. That isn’t really their fault though they just grew up with crappier media so to them that’s higher quality because they haven’t seen much before it.

>>23356194 (OP)
>What about
Jesus christ, Le War Bad is fucking gay, find something else to write your stories. I have had enough of faggy characters crying about how they murdered a mustache twirling villain. Move on, tell something else.

>>23356387
For B. It's more of a millennial thing I'm finding which is kinda ironic since the best shit actually came out near 1990-2000s era. They're so actively against questioning things.

>>23356378
NTA but I absolutely agree with you. Too often people will be posting about "the message" like watching a cool film is actually some kind of academic text or literary classic that you need to analyze and think through to take in a moral message or teaching. This is how you get with takes like "One Piece is an anarchist manifest" or "Andor is real Star Wars because its about fascism".
I think it's partially the result of people being scared that their "geeky" or "childish" hobbies are often dismissed, so they need to elevate them by coming up with reasons into why they're worthy of wasting your time on. Enjoying Transformers isn't anymore about seeing cool robots, but also about what "message" its trying to say. This is why, I feel, that games with heavy storytelling like Last of Us are often viewed as more prestigious games than games that are all about fun gameplay.

I like fun stuff. But I also like thoughtful stuff. When someone creates something that's pretending to be thoughtful but it's actually fun stuff, that's when I have a problem.

>>23356397
Consumming something of your era does not refine your taste in media. It always have been selective consumption. Zoomer and millennial pretty much experienced the same stuff during the early 2000s as children and teenagers, but they don't share the same worldview and taste.
>Millennial actively against questioning things
Question what? The decline of quality in modern /m/? Question why are there so many retard and pretentious messages in modern /m/ compares to the past?

>>23356403
You seem to be abit confused. Fun does not mean it is dumb and thoughtful does not mean it has to be super depression and devoid of fun. Gundam and whatever the dogshit Sunrise has been churning out since the 70s have been such a disaster for mecha genre. But for some reason, Super Sentai avoided this dogshit for while and only falter in recent years.

>>23356411
>The decline of quality in modern /m/?
This decade is miles better than 2010s.
>why are there so many retard and pretentious messages in modern /m/
Such as?

>>23356344
>1:1 adaptations
The show came out before the game.

>>23356218
>gundam’s direct predecessor
The most memorable stuff in Daitarn is all Banjo and his hoes

>>23356411
Consuming media from multiple eras gives you a better ability to compare things. there is only a handful of years of millennials and zoomers that I would say watched much or saw much of the same shit. and quite obviously the first few years of millennials saw shit that many later millennials themselves never saw. Let alone the fact that many millennials have seen shit that zoomers will never care about in their life. And the thing that’s kind of ironic is that many of these franchises that zoomers to care about today are franchises that have their roots in the earlier millennial years. But the zoomers will never go back and check any of that stuff out to compare with what they have today in many cases.

>>23356329
Holy fuck we can't go a single thread without you fucks ruining them with massive copes about your show. All of this shit was in the fucking background while we got a stuttering red head doing slice of life shit you moron. Your post reads like a teenager trying to make their essay arbitrarily longer to hit the word count. Fuck off.

>>23356378
>I liked that OVA personally but I have a hard time suggesting it to anyone because they needed to scale back the run time on AL by at least 20% (which is a conservative amount some people would say 100%) and concentrate on the people fighting.

Holy fucking shit taste. War in the Pocket is literally one of the best entries in the franchise because it doesn't just feature pointless fighting. When the battles do happen in 0080, it's because shit is getting real and the stakes are incredibly high. Yeah I agree that you can make cool shit for the sake of it, but it's very rare for shit like that to be remembered or recommended since it's just a shitty roller coaster ride. A good story with a point to it makes it immortal.

>>23356286
Eh, we're getting some stuff that's trying recently like the sentai red isekai from earlier this year, but I am feeling that most of the shows in recent memory that have been fun like Back Arrow or Bravern were done by really old directors who have no promising replacements

>>23356495
Sorry, anon, it won't happen again. I'm incredibly sorry for posting that, and I feel embarrassed for writing such a cope but I couldn't help it. Tell me, what should I watch and talk about, so the quality of the board could become better?

Complaining about "fanservice" in anime is the mark of a mental midget.
> If someone dies, it's not war has caused a good person to die, it's because they were acting retarded, for shock value, for extra drama.
This has happened since the dawn of mecha anime, including in many of the entries considered classic on this board. Try watching more than three anime before posting again.

>>23356819
I misspoke. I'm sorry. I feel like not a lot of you are understanding what I'm trying to say.

>>23356502
I like war in the pocket for what it is but I think the stuff about AL could have been condensed here and there. while you care about him, he’s also annoying and while his character may be needed for the story they could have cut his scenes down so he didn’t overstay his welcome so much. We have had enough gundam series with a young annoying character in it who doesn’t shut up. Why do we need more? is there not enough cartoons with annoying characters? You say that without a message or whatever people won’t remember it but look at 08th Ms team no one talks about that show because of the plot or whatever it’s because it has a reputation for having some of the best combat in the franchise (just simply cool fucking shit). anything else in it is an extra. I don’t even remember the characters names after all these years but I remember how cool the fights were. I just finished stardust memory. You think I give a shit about the main character or Nina? They were both annoying. but what makes me glad I watched it was seeing so many cool mobile suit designs and cool fights. Getting some more background on zeon and the federation. World building. Inspiration for model kits. the best character in that show was South Burning.

>>23357018
Fucking kill yourself.

>>23357026
Angryscreamingreddituserwojack. bmp

>>23356194 (OP)
You might just be unaware that the more "profound" mecha shows that tried to have much deeper ingrained messages to instill to the audience were always rare, but getting into mecha now, you have all of these amazing shows ready to watch whenever you feel like instead of having to wait. It's not really an indication of the time; it's more that it takes a really long time for a work of fiction in any genre to defy conventions or speak a really convincing message. There's always gonna be a ton of shows like the ones you're describing in any era.
Also, it's really hard to convey a message effectively and do it with originality and tact. Wings of Rean certainly had a clear, explicit message, but it just comes off as really incoherent, probably to the average person who isn't used to the type of language and directorial style Tomino uses to the point where it kinda strangles the whole show... Yet it's probably one of the more interesting pieces in the body of his work.

The worst part is, having a message in no way means your work is any more intelligent or important that a work without one. War Bad in particular is frequently the most insipid fucking pointless thing to say. Everyone's already heard it. What new points do you have to bring to the table?

And the vast majority don't even do it well. War is just some event that happens because politicians are evil and then they show you a bunch of soldiers going "grrr... what are we even fighting for?!?" and then someone dies and everyone feels sad. Could you actually break down the reasons for conflict, the things that drive the common man to take part in it? Nah, "politicians are greedy and now joey joe joe who stepped on that landmine in episode seven is dead, so war is badong!". The original gundam is even one of the better ones, you're not getting something that good or nuanced out of most directors. You can't just do it again.

Part of the reason for the negative response is that your post elevates message above cool robots, which is not in the ideal spirit of /m/. Good mecha has both and both are important. If 0080 did not have the alex and the kampfer and Bernie/Chris were just driving tanks it would be diminished, if 0080 was just a long fight sequence between the alex and kampfer it would also be diminished
I also think the word message has the wrong connotations. 0080 is not moral instruction - although it portrays tragedy caused by war, the purpose is not to tell kids war is bad. But I get what you're saying
>>23356194 (OP)
> A lot of old /m/ stuff had that real message in which war fucks everyone up. Greed, all the human vices and power dynamics causes people to bring out the worst in each other.
If any modern show attempted this it would be disingenuous. Like you say, the current generation doesn't have the experience for this. I don't want someone who has only ever lived in peacetime to tell me how war is bad.
>>23356213
I agree with this, IBO did have a message. The faceless bureaucracy wins and idealistic youth loses. This was a good idea to explore

desu any kind of antiwar/antiviolence message in a modern show would be stupid. Modern people are mostly harmless and incapable of action. I am not concerned about war destroying the world, I am concerned about the world rotting away as people lie in their beds and scroll tiktok
Now, if an /m/ creator attempted to create an exhortation to action, something intended to wake young people from their stupor, that would be interesting

>>23356495
>Waaaaaaaaah I wanna gush about my favorite shows, stop gushing about your own favorites

>>23357378
>Bernie/Chris were just driving tanks
I don't necessarily disagree with your point, but I do want to watch this show.

You had plenty of gruel put out in the past, when you go back and watch shows from previous decades now you're probably not doing it by pulling up lists of what aired on Japanese television each year and are instead going by what you've seen recommended or discussed which is going to be at least notable enough for someone to have something to say about it all these years later.
I don't think we get much mecha anime that isn't gruel now, however. That's just because people lost interest in the genre overall, and the people who actually told interesting stories with giant robots in them are all dead or in various stages of retirement.
There was a post that might have been on this board or maybe somewhere else on the site, but it had a line something like: "You've mistaken the personal creative apparatus of a handful of men for an entire genre of work", which I think you can apply to mecha, because it's not really a "genre" in the sense of mystery or romance or anything like that. It's more in the vein of a video game sub-genre, like Soulslikes, Vampire Survivors clones, Diablo clones, etc, you're copying features rather than tackling some broad conceit like two people fall in love. But mainly it was guys from the 80s/90s who were told to make shows about robots because the toys sold well or who grew up on those same shows that made mecha anime. Later generations either got bored of it or found other premises to tell stories about and buy/sell toys of and without that concentration of people on the same thing you don't get crazy, novel breakthrough ideas. You can see interest in giant robot shit steadily rising again though, particularly after AC6, so maybe we'll get an interesting show again. Or a game, or a movie, or something.

>>23356194 (OP)
It's amazing how any new UC Gundam work brings out the pseudo-intellectuals in droves, thinking that military/political fiction is the end-all-be-all of the mecha genre, when even that doesn't even scratch the surface.

I'll be so glad a month from now when the latest slop is forgotten and the social media tryhards get bored and move on to the next latest thing that doesn't meet their lofty standards..

>>23357714
What scratches below the surface of the mecha genre?

>>23357760
DinoZaurs

>>23357378
Yeah, you got exactly what I'm trying to say.

Normie board now.

>>23357562
>now you're probably not doing it by pulling up lists of what aired on Japanese television each year and are instead going by what you've seen recommended or discussed which is going to be at least notable enough for someone to have something to say about it
But then, what are the notable works of the last 15 years?

>>23357929
>now

>>23357929
>normie