Thread 23370795

What happened to original mecha like these that were produced roughly 10 years ago? The type that was widely popular even outside of mecha fans. Seems like it's rare these days, studio seems to have become risk averse. Are we doomed to forever get Gundamslop?

>>23370795 (OP)
Only Gargantia was good and that got canceled.

>>23370795 (OP)
Aldnoah.Zero just got The compilation movie + EP24.5 "Fragments of Rain - The Penultimate Truth-" this year. Plus it's in SRW DD. So it's at least not forgotten no matter how much I that thing. Not sure about the other 3.

>>23370813
What happened with that anyways
I remember the first season was fairly popular, did people hate the ending that much?

>>23370817
What happened with season two is a decision so bizarre and unusual that even to this day it hasn’t been replicated It was cancelled in favor of JP exclusive light novels despite its popularity overseas and ratings domestically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR-EHhyauHk

>>23370823
They even had the season 2 planned, it was a last minute decision

>>23370795 (OP)
Crapnoah and vulvarape are fucking garbage

The other two are ok

>>23370795 (OP)
"Popular outside of mecha fans" isn't going to really happen nowadays.
Most of the anime audience wants power fantasies (which mecha can't really deliver on as well as non-mecha since the power being linked to the machine isn't as effective as being "it's because the MC is simply that badass") or waifubait (which the mecha distracts from).
Hell Garganita is an example, half of the reason for its success was having cute girls.

Mecha newfags have such a victim complex lmao.

Valvrave was NOT popular. It never was. A/Z and Gargantia gathered a bit of an audience (especially the former among female fans), but not Valvrave.

>>23370882
>Garganita
It needed the cute girls because they baited us with huge war with space squids and clone super soldier pilots, amd gave a slice of life show instead. Chamber being based and the waifus held that show a float.

>>23370955
No it was we people thought it would be Code Geass again.

>>23370960
Sunrise dumped a lot of resources into a show that was forgotten the second it finished airing. Geass has had sequels and a lot of noise in the years since, but nobody gives a rat's ass about Valvrave nowadays.

>>23370823
>What happened with season two is a decision so bizarre and unusual that even to this day it hasn’t been replicated
Go read as to what happened to Kemono Friends.

>despite its popularity overseas
Not relevant for Japanese calculus, unless the Foreign Devils are footing the bill.

>>23370901
100% this

>>23370882
Why don’t they just make mecha animes where the mc is simply badass at piloting the robots? Seems easy to make mecha power fantasies. Or you can go the code geass route and have a mc who is simply badass and robots at the same time.

>>23371006
>Why don’t they just make mecha animes where the mc is simply badass at piloting the robots?
Mecha anime is very conscious of following the template set by its modern landmarks (Gundam, Evangelion), neither of which have a "badass protagonist".

>Seems easy to make mecha power fantasies.
There's no market for it. Naru-kei is entirely sold in on pseudo-medieval, JRPG inspired sword and sorcery.

You could make the argument that Gundam SEED sells the "power fantasy protagonist" element to its audience, but that's a huge debate we aren't having again

>>23371012
>spoiler
Kek I was just thinking that

>>23371006
That isn't the type of power fantasy that appeals to modern anime fans.

>>23370795 (OP)
Anime originals in general have been getting rarer and rarer, just look at how something actually succesful like Madoka or Yuri on Ice can get trapped in development hell for years and flounder or die
Its either part of a long-standing franchise or low quality slop, your pick

>>23371036
The anime industry is going through lots of issues. More anime than ever is being produced but the pool of animators is shrinking because its such shitty industry to join. This why the average length of a series has shrunk because only Toei seems to have the capability and desire to produce long runners anymore.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if a reason for more adaptations of manga is because of foreign investment seeking established names for a similar reason as their domestic market keeps doing isekai.

>>23371006
Dunno man, it honestly feels like only the laziest creatives get funded these days.

>>23370795 (OP)
OP I think Cross Ange is completely in lines with those shows. Anyone know another one so that the image can be a harmonic 3x2?

>>23371006
The power fantasy angle is one that usually is not very conducive with mecha.
If you make it an OP robot then there's this feeling that the MC isn't the special one because the robot is potentially carrying him. Yeah, usually a lot of these series have the MC be handed some amazing ability for relatively little effort but that still is something that people who like those series have in mind. It's probably why isekai are usually giving the main character unique "skills" as their core feature instead of overpowered items, even something like Shield Hero where the setup seems to be placing emphasis on the shield it actually is something that still is linked to the OP skillset of being summoned as a special chosen one.

If you try and make it that the robot isn't special then the MC also loses out by not having some unique special ability which is a huge part of the thing the audience wants. Again, if it's something that is simply a matter of one person being extremely competent there's always the threat of someone better coming along. Consider that the largest power fantasy slop in recent history had it downright hard-wired into the setting that ONLY the main character can get stronger despite that making no fucking sense, something that works for the audience is the idea that literally nobody can challenge the self-insert, not even hypothetically.
This might be why so many of them feature the "free cheat skills" because it immediately gives the MC a plot-excuse that marks them as completely untouchable.

>>23371171
Knights of Sidonia?

>>23371228
Gotta go back a ways but Heroic Age tried for the mix of OP mech (sorta?) and chosen one and that was pretty damn bad

>>23370955
It was popular at the time it was airing. The second season and the ending killed the hype

>>23371036
The crazy thing I was reading recently an article mentioning the anime industry tripled their revenue in the past decade. You wouldn't think this is a thriving industry based on the current output. There was more creativity and originality in the 90s and 2000s than now.

>>23371171
>>23371233
That was based on a manga. I would go with Captain Earth

>>23371228
>Consider that the largest power fantasy slop in recent history had it downright hard-wired into the setting that ONLY the main character can get stronger despite that making no fucking sense, something that works for the audience is the idea that literally nobody can challenge the self-insert, not even hypothetically.
>This might be why so many of them feature the "free cheat skills" because it immediately gives the MC a plot-excuse that marks them as completely untouchable.
See the spoiler at >>23371012. Maybe that's part of the reason why that thing is still popular to this day: it plays to the same overpowered hero tripe that Narou-kei works with.

>>23371228
Idk dude I feel like you could have an isekai wish fulfillment show where the main character has those sort of cheat code special skills and they just fight in robots instead of with swords or magic or whatever the fuck. It just changes the action sequences and not the actual plot. Like gundam seed is pretty much wish fulfillment where the main character is a perfect genetic specimen who is an unstoppable pilot and impossible to kill and its popular.

>>23370795 (OP)
>What happened to original mecha like these that were produced roughly 10 years ago?
They were bad.

More or less this is the correct answer >>23371036
I will add that Banrise-Namco understood that creating a new IP means become the competition themselves. When they simply can consolidate everything inside the Gundam brand and call it a day. For example G-Witch could be a original Mecha anime and outside of the identity of some mechanical designs you barely need to do changes.

>>23371294
Why don’t they simply just make good shows then?

>>23371171
Argevollen

>>23371012
>You could make the argument that Gundam SEED sells the "power fantasy protagonist" element to its audience
Nah, Kira eats shit just enough to not be on the same level as an Isekai protagonist. And Destiny's protagonist is fucking Shinn.

>>23371825
>Kira eats shit just enough to not be on the same level as an Isekai protagonist
I don't see much difference from the level of challenge your archetypical narou-kei protagonist goes through (SAO's Kirito, ReZero's Subaru, etc) and Kira Yamato.

>And Destiny's protagonist is fucking Shinn.
Do we really want to have that debate?

>>23371834
>I don't see much difference from the level of challenge your archetypical narou-kei protagonist goes through (SAO's Kirito, ReZero's Subaru, etc) and Kira Yamato.
For starters, Kira has a rival that's more or less his match in the form of Athrun. He struggled with the Strike and although you could claim he becomes an invincible Jesus upon gaining the Freedom, the truth is that he struggled a lot against the Druggies and the Providence when they came into the picture.

Now, you could argue Subaru struggles way more than Kira, but Subaru is an outlier among Isekai protagonists because the "point" of his show is to see him struggle really hard to beat nigh-impossible odds.

>Do we really want to have that debate?
It's Shinn, don't be a retard.

>>23371228
Guys I have an idea. What if the MC fights the robots like Snake and Merrowlink/Mellowlink whatever the fuck its called.

>>23371228
>>23370882
That "cheat skills" have blown up in popularity makes it clear audiences don't give a single fuck in the strength actually comes from the character or not. Half of these stories are "I was the weakest dipshit in the universe and then I was given the killing word and now everyone sucks my dick!", none of that has anything to do with the characters, it's just laid at their feet.
>>23372001
Hard to write. You have to come up with a new thing every time for them to win. This is why most characters that start off with weak or niche powers just get a berserk power up (that uses up their lifespan, for drama!) or just get an energy wave attack. Underdogs don't last long before it turns out they have demon heritage.

>>23370795 (OP)
buddy complex was pretty fun, at least we got a movie that was clearly supposed to be season 2

From a storytelling perspective mechs can be really powerful but also get torn to pieces every fight and be fine in the next episode
More interesting to me at least than simply being invincible

>>23372048
It doesn't really make sense but in a way it's just the degree of separation. The fantasy of being the chosen one is more alluring to people who want those types of stories than getting the strongest weapon. And yes, of course there is the aspect of "but the robot could just not move with someone else" but it still takes enough of the emphasis away from the self-insert for it to not hit the same audience.
Also there's the aspect of it potentially placing the self-insert in vulnerable positions, if their power is tied to the machine. Even in series about invincible robots it's often used for drama in that the human pilot is not as untouchable as the machine. Imagine an isekai where the MC has no special ability and needs to run to a specific location then put on a suit of armor before they can defend themselves, it sounds extremely odd in that formula. Even if the writing avoids this by giving the MC superpowers on-foot and also letting him teleport into the robot wherever and whenever it's adding extra steps when they could just give the MC the super powers and call it a day.

The thing about the power fantasy is that there's just too many concepts that come with mecha that get in the way of the shallow wish fulfillment. Thing is that the a lot of normalfags do like the genre but they don't really know how to put into words the things that resonate with them since it's basically all just things directly exciting the lizard brain so making something that appeals to them either means you need to go brainless yourself or if you want to innovate you'd need to engineer something that hits the same beats with your innovation in mind and I'd think most writers who are dedicated enough to do that would rather just make a good story over a popular one.

>>23371228
Shield Hero also had a problem where anyone who doesn't like Naofumi is either an incompetent dipshit or cartoonishly evil. I think that's common in these types of stories too. The main character is only smart because everyone else is a fucking idiot.

>>23371834
Debate? There's nothing to debate lmao. Shinn *was* the MC of Destiny till halfway through where Kira then became MC. Don't tell me you're one of those retards that think fucking Athrun of all people is the MC? That's like saying Char is the MC of Zeta.

>>23372735
>>23371968
Let's split the difference, shall we?
>Cour 1: Shinn is the protagonist
>Cours 2-4: Kira is the protagonist
>compilation movies: Athrun is the protagonist

>>23371968
>Kira has a rival that's more or less his match in the form of Athrun.
He HAD a rival that was his match, past tense. And even when they faced each other again in Destiny, Freedom obliterated Saviour in an instant, making the point about "Kira being as much of a boring, overpowered protagonist as any narou-kei slop" valid.

>the truth is that he struggled a lot against the Druggies
He "struggled" because him and Athrun were pulling their punches every time they fought the fucking druggies. There's a bunch of visual examples where they're jobbing against those retards. Had they taken their shit seriously (or had this show been decently written), they would've murdered those three retards the second time they faced; third at most.

>>23371307
This also started to happen in the mid-80s when a bunch of toy companies went out of business and it was just Bandai and Takara sponsoring most of the shows. Japan had also gotten a real taste of just doing direct(ish) sequels so you had years of Gundam going against Transformers while all their other IPs being canceled like Layzner or relegated to the OVA market like Votoms.

>>23372735
Char is the MC of Zeta though.
Japan agrees with that.

>>23370882
>mecha can't be a power fantasy
Fucking lol. Do you even like/watch mecha shows?

>>23373298
We're talking about the "narou-kei power fantasy" archetype, which means a protagonist that starts out broken from the get-go and doesn't get challenged in any real way.
Plus a harem of chicks that fall to his feet to suck his dick.

>>23372978
Japan hates Kamille?

>>23372802
>And even when they faced each other again in Destiny, Freedom obliterated Saviour in an instant, making the point about "Kira being as much of a boring, overpowered protagonist as any narou-kei slop" valid.
Kira wasn't the protagonist in that show.

>>23372802
>Had they taken their shit seriously (or had this show been decently written), they would've murdered those three retards the second time they faced; third at most.
So you wanted Kira to obliterate them like the usual OP Isekai MC does with his opponents?

>>23373313
See >>23372781. Anyone that really believes Shinn was the protagonist after episode 13 is deluding themselves.

>>23372802
>And even when they faced each other again in Destiny, Freedom obliterated Saviour in an instant
The Saviour is an inferior suit to the Freedom and the Justice. Kira in the Freedoms and Athrun in the Justices are really close in terms of power.

>>23373318
I honestly don't know if that's better or worse than keeping the bullshit that they were actually dangerous foes, when they had a bunch of opportunities to kill them, but didn't. Because this nonsense is unacceptable.
The best course of action would've been to have actually dangerous foes that do present a challenge for Kira. For instance, what they did with Shinn in Destiny.

>>23373320
>See >>23372781
Not an argument, just your opinion.
>Anyone that really believes Shinn was the protagonist after episode 13 is deluding themselves.
He stayed more of a protagonist than Kira ever was in Destiny. Shinn being part of the bad guys and losing in the end doesn't prevent him from being the MC, it just makes him a unique type of MC that's rarely seen in media, like Anakin Skywalker.

>>23373324
>The Saviour is an inferior suit to the Freedom and the Justice. Kira in the Freedoms and Athrun in the Justices are really close in terms of power.
Are we judging pilot skill or the mobile suit itself ?(hint: it should be the former) Because if we go with that logic, then Athrun should have put up at least some fight against Kira, rather than just being pulverized in a similar style as he does your average mook, such as Chaos.

>>23373335
>Are we judging pilot skill or the mobile suit itself ?
Both, if Kira was in the Strike Rouge instead he would be the one getting BTFO'd.

>>23373334
>He stayed more of a protagonist than Kira ever was in Destiny. Shinn being part of the bad guys and losing in the end doesn't prevent him from being the MC, it just makes him a unique type of MC that's rarely seen in media, like Anakin Skywalker.
I'm sorry to tell you, Anon, but this is cope. You are, indeed, deluding yourself. Not even Fukuda thinks Shinn is the show's protagonist:
>The true lead character is the one who makes choices. A character who doesn’t decide, no matter how much screen time they get, isn’t the lead.
>Shinn didn’t make choices, either.

>>23373339
>Both
Nah, it really ought to be "true pilot skill > raw machine power that carries them".

>if Kira was in the Strike Rouge instead he would be the one getting BTFO'd.
It depends on the pack it would be using, really, but I doubt it. He didn't do much against Saviour other than some beam sabering.

>>23373341
Why do I get the feeling that they never wanted to create a new cast for Destiny but were forced to by higher ups so they wrote Shinn as unlikeable as possible so no one would like him, especially when he's shitting on the old cast?

>>23373341
If we're using that interview as proof, Kira isn't the protagonist of Destiny either:
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/22043334/#22043334

>>23371319
Not possible.

>>23373360
It honestly feels like that was the case, especially when you come to the movie's context where, apart from Shinn, the Hawke sisters and comic relief Arthur, there's nobody of the Minerva's crew left in the story. Everyone got killed.

>>23373346
>Nah, it really ought to be "true pilot skill > raw machine power that carries them".
If that was the case, Kira would've utterly crushed Rau in the Providence instead of barely surviving their fight. Technology advantage is pretty damn important when the pilots have similar levels of skill.

>>23373374
>If that was the case, Kira would've utterly crushed Rau in the Providence instead of barely surviving their fight.
They were more or less matched up in both regards (veteran pilots in elite nuclear-powered Gundams), so the fight makes sense in context.

>>23370882
I miss when power fantasies were cool and not patronizingly retarded

>>23370882
Basically this >>23371006
>defeats a way more powerful mobile suit by outsmarting the enemy pilot

Is not that hard.

I haven't watched any of these so I'm going to do the right thing and say these are probably shit newfag mecha anime based on how they look

>>23370882
Catering to power fantasy normgroids is a lost cause. The genre and viewers are both low quality. Do we really need Zeorymer, etc except worse?

>>23372802
Anon, are you seriously implying Kira beating an opponent actively pulling his punches is some definitive proof that he's better?

>>23378488
I'm not "implying" jack shit, only that this is incredibly lousy direction and storytelling.

>>23378516
...By using Kira beating an inferior mobile suit piloted by a pilot pulling their punches as an example?

>>23378707
>piloted by a pilot pulling their punches
The ones pulling their punches are Kira and Athrun. There's no sensible explanation why they didn't just fire at the retards instead of shooting at the fucking water. But the worst example is >>23373326

>>23378795
>why they didn't just fire at the retards instead of shooting at the fucking water.
I always figured they didn't want to damage the mass driver port with an ensuing explosion.
>But the worst example is
What am I looking at here again?

>>23378809
>>I always figured they didn't want to damage the mass driver port with an ensuing explosion.
They knew they were evacuating so the mass driver could be destroyed before the Earth Alliance moved in. Doing some inconsequential damage during a battle to protect the ship against "powerful foes" makes no sense.

>What am I looking at here again?
Did you even watch the show or not? After there's a huge melee between Freedom, Justice and the druggies, the three imbeciles suddenly stop when they get their neurotic fits. Kira and Athrun just stand there, watching them stand uselessly in the air, only to evacuate shortly after instead of shooting them on the spot.
Have another example, free of charge. Even with the beam saber drawn before getting close to bounce off the blast, Athrun doesn't bother to attack the stupid druggy.

>>23378832
>Doing some inconsequential damage during a battle to protect the ship against "powerful foes" makes no sense.
Three mobile suits blowing up/crashing onto the platform they're currently still using isn't going to be inconsequential damage.
No argument against the other examples, though.

>>23370795 (OP)
All 4 of them were really mid mecha shows though?

And one isn't even really a mecha show. It's a slice of life with mecha in it.

Valvrave and aldnoah zero were some of the stupidest shit I've watched and trust me, I've watched gargantia.

>>23379203
The point OP is making is that there's a dearth of original mecha shows. Everything nowadays is from existing franchises, or chinese-funded passion projects like Bravern.

>>23379203
Valvrave is by far one of the best Gundam AUs ever made.
It's not a high bar of praise since most of Gundam is garbage to begin with and it's like top 5 at best, but fuck you if you're taking this from me.

>>23376853
>Do we really need Zeorymer, etc except worse?
At least that would be fun.

>>23379257
That was also true back in the day. We had three J9 shows, three Super Dimension shows, years of Time Bokan, and even the original stuff was being pressured to fit existing trends to satisfy sponsors. Even the stuff that wasn't in a franchise felt the strain of a limited talent pool like all of Takahashi and Tomino's shows.

>>23371246
That's because thirdworlders started watching anime

>>23380088
It's the opposite, third worlders in south america/ south east asia/middle east watched anime long before westerners did. Most of the growth have been driven by the US in last 10 or so years.

>>23380340
Yeah, it's part of the reason series like Saint Seiya are so popular in certain countries while Americans don't give a shit about it.

>>23372802
>he thinks Kira and Athrun where "le holding back" against the druggies


Hahahaha holy shit, what a retard

>>23376853
I wouldn't call Zeorymer a power fantasy outside of SRW where you get to Meioh whole maps of lategame grunts.