Evening /m/, i was wondering what you guy's opinion was on Seed and Seed Destiny, to get a gauge on if i should rewatch it or not.

I like them both a lot. Freedom too.

>>23382903 (OP)
Seed was decent. Kind of falters near the end.
Destiny was actually pretty interesting for the first dozen or so episodes but it got shit fast

>>23382903 (OP)
Seed is pretty good, definitely not S but I'd say A tier for sure. Destiny is not terrible but a lot of what happens in it just feels kinda pointless. It has no shortage of awesome mobile suits, though. Freedom is a great end to the saga, I personally really enjoyed the movie.

As for rewatching all of it, I'd say just watch the recap movies if you already watched the entire anime. Even though the movies don't have the best editing and go by at lighting speed, you'll have your Seed itch scratched. I say this because you'll probably get bored halfway through if you try to rewatch all of it.

It's the only AU that still gets regularly discussed for a reason

If there's one thing I liked about CE, it was that it made ships and ship battles a bigger part of the franchise again. CE treated the home ship almost like it was a Gundam itself.

It's not worth a re-watch.
It's a good Gundam show for people new to anime or mecha but the whole series is frustrating to watch at best and outright terrible at its worst. Unless you're the kind of viewer who keeps a show on mute and just enjoys a visual spectacle there's no upside in trying to sit through the hamfisted narrative that is SEED again.
Just watch battle clips or comp movies on YouTube or something.

>>23382903 (OP)
I personally enjoyed the saga overall. Just stay away from the new dub.

>>23383088
is the dub not good?

>>23383122
Why would you watch dubbed anime at all?

>>23383029
>If there's one thing I liked about CE, it was that it made ships and ship battles a bigger part of the franchise again. CE treated the home ship almost like it was a Gundam itself.

Agreed. Although I got annoyed how the Archangel ship never got upgraded later in the show. Meanwhile the Gundams were running around with beam shields.

Mobile suits should not be more advanced than the mothership they launch from.

>>23383122
The new dub is horrible, with audio level issues, terrible direction, and strange rewrites of lines.

>>23383088
Any show with the amount of melodrama as SEED is going to sound horrible in a dub

>>23382971
>Watching the SEED recap movies
Absolutely not. If he wants to do that for Destiny, fine. The compilation movies for those were actually decent. He'd be better off just skipping around if he starts getting bored rewatching SEED.

SEED and SEED Destiny are absolute shit. People try to defend SEED even though it's just Fukuda's shitty rehash of MSG and even Metal Armor Dragon which in itself was meant to be a pseudo-reimage of Gundam by Sunrise.

00 and Iron-Blooded Orphans for all their flaws are far more redeemable than that shit.

>>23383122
Pretty much all that >>23383196
said. Names were butchered too.

>>23383664
You mean you don't like Lacoose or Maryu Ramius?

>>23382903 (OP)

Both are great. They were the first Gundam series I watched as they came out every week via fansubs.

Definitely take the MSG and Zeta blueprints, with some Wing thrown in.

Why does /m/'s opinion on them dictate whether or not you rewatch them

Destiny really wasn't that bad, it meanders. It gets kinda dumb. But what Gundam series DOESNT do that

>>23383916
I feel like the people who dislike it just don't really understand it.

>>23384041
I thought they were autists who overanalyzed the scenes and didn't like what they saw

>>23383708
Luna-Maria.

>>23383129
But that's how we get stupid funny shit like British Bright or French Sayla but not Char.

>>23384132
>>23384041
like shit is so overhated, but it had a pretty good start and ending although I really don't like Kira's personality in this entry. Seriously what the fuck Kira, why are you letting Rey kill himself. but it genuinely had me care about the characters and Shinn is the most reasonably angsty teenager in the whole franchise. Maybe it's me. I don't really hate Katz, Char or Kamille but people online always fucking have a melty over these characters for some fucking reason. Like come on, Shinn doesn't even go full murderkira until Luna dies.

>>23384041
Pacifist characters like Kira are inherently antithetical to a war story. This can work with good writing.
When they are both pacifist and Superman it creates an antithetical paradox and consequently a narrative disconnect.
When you have scenes like >>23383061 they only further reinforce a script that insults the literacy of its audience.
This is the problem with SEED as a whole. Get rid of ubermensch Kira and Lacus and suddenly no one has a problem with the way SEED plays out.
But when you've got a literal deus ex machina not a single thing has stakes or even matters because now the plot result will always be the same

>>23384210
I like Kira in SEED and thought he earned his pacifism stance pretty well.

Destiny though......

>>23382903 (OP)
first half of seed was pretty good. the rest of it and destiny were slop. but like the mirai nikki kind of slop where you just turn your brain off and it's fun to watch. overall probably one of the better gundam series just because it never gets boring, also hot anime girls.

>>23384213
If Kira had been killed by Shinn in Destiny it would've been hailed as one of the most amazing anime shows ever, for better or worse.

>>23384210
What about Loran from Turn A?

>>23384213
Destiny Kira is one of the best characters in the franchise.

>>23384224
Right. Viewers hated Shinn at the time because he hated Kira.

>>23384224
Garbage taste.
And Shinn sucks.

>>23384234
We still hate Shinn.

>>23384210
Kira isn't a pacifist in the first place.

>>23384132
Well, case in point >>23384210

>>23384234
He didn't poll well because he was constantly outrageously out of line and never faced any consequences for it. A more belligerent and skilled Katz.

>>23382903 (OP)
jesus yamato is very annoying in destiny. its a very teenage anime with teenage angst and morals. you might not like it was much as an adult but you never know.

>>23384161
>although I really don't like Kira's personality in this entry
How come?

>>23384295
What about all the times Athrun beat the shit out of him? Both before and after Athrun switched sides.

>>23384295
>He was constantly outrageously out of line
The only time he was outrageously out of line was letting Stella go and even then ZAFT was going to dissect her

>>23384330
Really not comparable. Shinn takes part in one-sided massacres, shouts at and shoulder checks foreign heads of state, returns an enemy combatant to the enemy who use her to kill many more people, and the one time he might face consequences, Durandal personally decides to overlook it.

>>23384341
Japanese fans notoriously did not like his treatment of Cagalli whatsoever.

>>23384327
he acts superior then everyone, always think he knows what's right. just constantly strongmanning every single situation without thinking. I mean most of the time he is right.... idk freedom kinda makes it so he reflects on this so that's fine but destiny, he's completely "NUH UH LALALLALALALA YOU MADE CAGALI CRY WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS DOING STOP FIGHTING AHHHHHHH"

>>23384395
That...is not Kira in Destiny at all. How long has it been since your last rewatch?

>>23384402
20 years

>>23384395
I feel like we watched different shows, anon. He's very hesitant and seems to always be the first one to suggest that they might be doing the wrong thing. Even the 'Cagalli is crying!' speech starts with him acknowledging what Athrun is saying.

>>23384380
>Japanese fans notoriously did not like his treatment of Cagalli whatsoever.
He was 100% correct. Preaching pacifism but then deciding to stand on your ideals so hard that your innocent citizens get ravaged by war because your military is lacking BECAUSE of your pacifism stance is the pinnacle of retardation.
Even worse is that he only really started getting on her shit after she was so incompetent at being a leader that her fucking country decided to ally with a faction so unambiguously evil they make the Titans look moderate.

>>23384380
>Shinn takes part in one-sided massacres
They were fleeing, that's not the same as surrendering. Fair game.
>shouts at and shoulder checks foreign heads of state
if Trump got saved by a fucking Chinese air craft carrier and then stated barking at them being le bad I can imagine they'd do worse
>returns an enemy combatant to the enemy who use her to kill many more people
This is a legitimate fault but it exists to show how idealistic and desperate he is. Shinn not having the strength to save Stellar himself is why he's so easily manipulated in the back half of Destiny

>>23384568
>Preaching pacifism but then deciding to stand on your ideals so hard that your innocent citizens get ravaged by war because your military is lacking BECAUSE of your pacifism stance is the pinnacle of retardation.
Oh then he was quite pleased when Orb threw away their ideals and allied with the rest of the Earth to protect themselves, right?

>>23384568
Even if he's right, they really don't like that sort of thing. Look at these first three points.

>>23384590
They could allied with the country that wasn't the ones that fucking attacked them in the first war and started the second one

>>23384619
Got it, so the right move is
>during the first war, ally with Blue Cosmos so they don't invade you
>during the second war, after they start throwing nukes around, ally with their enemy
It's almost like Shinn is irrationally angry at Orb and his points against them don't even make sense

>>23384596
Kira was literally punching out fuckers from the Eurasian alliance, do JP fans also think he should be firing squaded?
No of course not because all of these complaints have everything to do with people slurping the cast from the original series and nothing else.
If Shinn was telling Yuna to fuck off instead nobody would have a problem with this shit.
>The fact that he was unable to get over the deaths of his sister and Stella
Far more believable than Nicol's death causing Kira even 1% of trauma when he had no problem blasting away ZAFT mooks every other day before that without shedding a tear.
Point 6 is literally the entire narrative point of the fucking character I cannot take these japs seriously.
And what happened with Stella literally -was- LOGOS' fault. She didn't come out of the womb fucking asking to be made into a human weapon.

>>23384624
It's not irrational to be angry at someone telling you to just disarm and get raped by terrorists who want to genocide your entire race and then they actually decide to ally with the terrorists.
>during the first war, ally with Blue Cosmos so they don't invade you
Complete misrepresentation of Shinn's mindset. He isn't angry that Orb didn't ally with the EA, he's angry that Orb's military was dogshit. Imagine how fucking hard they would've gotten raped if Athrun hadn't just coincidentally shown the fuck up and defected. They would have been completely razed.

>>23384628
I think the difference is that Kira was just a civilian, which is the only reason he doesn't face a firing squad for giving Lacus to the enemy.

>>23384634
You are confused
>someone telling you to just disarm and get raped by terrorists who want to genocide your entire race
That's Shinn, he's pissed that Orb chose not to be invaded instead of lying down and taking the occupation.
>That's why I don't believe in you guys! I don't believe in Orb or any other country! I don't believe in all those nice things you say! You say you will uphold the justice of this country...but did you even think back then about who would end up dying because of your words!?
>Orb may have stuck to its principles, but it didn't protect my family.
He's just a brat, lashing out at somebody who wasn't even in power at the time.

>>23383708
Reminds of when they redubbed Eva

>>23384679
>That's Shinn, he's pissed that Orb chose not to be invaded instead of lying down and taking the occupation.
He hates orb because they were weak in his mind, not because they chose to fight a threat. So when he hears Cagalli saying that everyone should just disarm and live in fantasyland where war won't happen if nobody has power he gets angry.

>>23384679
>That's Shinn, he's pissed that Orb chose not to be invaded instead of lying down and taking the occupation.
He's pissed because Orb promised to be a place free of war and WHOOPS look at that we did all sorts of shit to attract war to our door step.
>He's just a brat, lashing out at somebody who wasn't even in power at the time.
Atha was in power at the time. And if her dad was such a fuck up there's zero reason for anyone to think she should be any different, especially when she's become nothing more than a door stop for corrupt leaders to walk over.

Face it, Orb was a hole. They made big promises they failed to keep up and people died as a result. they were all hypocrites and the bimbo of a princess being the sister of the walking Jesus doesn't change things.

>>23384710
>we did all sorts of shit to attract war to our door step.
Such as?

>>23384725
Orb dressed slutty and secretly wanted it and deserved it.

What with her giant mass driver hanging out and the curves of that morganroete tech division

>>23384725
Working with the EA on their Gundam project and then being surprised when they expected more cooperation for starters

>>23384710
What was the reason she agreed to marry Yuna despite the fact that she would gain nothing, and he and his family would control the country while she would probably just be their puppet?

>>23384749
preventing inter country turmoil which was pointless since eventually she basically had to kick them out with force

>>23382903 (OP)
Bait post.

>>23384751
Funny how ZAFT's invasion actually helped her.

>>23384749
It was an arranged marriage. Going against it suddenly right when Orb needs stable leadership the most would be a major error (is probably the line Yuna fed her).

I always thought it was funny how Kira&Co are literally directly responsible for all those people who died due to Requiem firing on PLANT but this never gets discussed

>>23384728
lewd
but I'm not sure I like the implication of Uzumi blowing all that up then

>>23384729
>a private company worked with the Alliance
>ergo Orb has to give up their national sovereignty and let themselves be occupied

>>23384771
They're literally not, but don't take my word for it
ZAFT should have been trying to apprehend Djibril or working with Orb to do so, instead of attacking Orb's cities at random and trusting the worst shot in the military with shooting down his shuttle

>>23384791
Wasn't the problem that the Seiran family were hiding him and by the time Cagalli tries to find him herself he's already escaping? I guess she could have ordered a ceasefire in exchange for him once he got back control, but would ZAFT listen to her?

>>23384800
By the time she takes control back, Unato is dead and Yuna has no idea where Djibril is. She wants to push ZAFT back to negotiate a ceasefire, and has men searching for him in the meantime.

>>23384791
The Seiran family was in bed with LOGOS and actively sheltering him

>>23384832
How does that make Kira & Co responsible? ZAFT was there to apprehend him, they dicked around and he got away

>>23384800
>would ZAFT listen to her
Durandal wouldn't if he could get away with it, but Talia would. But I don't remember exactly how the ZAFT chain of command worked in that battle. All I vaguely remember is Talia ordering a retreat after it was clear Djibril was no longer there.

>>23384847
Their two best pilots were intercepted by Kira and Athrun

>>23383659
Dragonar has fucking nothing to do with Seed outside some action scenes borrowing shit from it.

>>23384869
To be fair, Shinn could have chosen to disengage once Rey arrived. The Freedom bloodlust was too much to resist for either of them.

>>23382903 (OP)
I watched SEED a long time ago and it was decent. Also played SRW J enough to unlock the 4th protagonist mech that I couldn't forget its story even if I wanted to.
I only watched the Destiny movies and I didn't hate it all compared to others who sat through the TV series.

>>23384869
Intercepted in the process of what, attacking Orb's military on the complete opposite side of the island from where Djibril launched from?

>>23384903
Shinn showed up as reinforcements for the invasion, got intercepted by Akatsuki immediately and then intercepted by Strike Freedom immediately

>>23384908
And then he disengaged, resupplied, and sortied along with Legend to go after Freedom.

>>23384847
The argument is that if Kira and co decided to let Orb get sacked for the greater good and let Zaft conquer the place then Djbril wouldn't have gotten to Requiem. Except then Orb is under Durandal's rule and smashed up and then Durandal effectively controls everything.

>became an actual dedicated Gundam fan in 2014
>I loved everything UC, but out of all the AU shows, SEED was the one I dreaded the most just from what I heard
>mobile suits that all look the same? all sorts of characters with bright neon hair that never actually die when killed? pop stars?
>give it a go eventually when I've seen everything else, expecting to drop it whenever I get bored

>I actually push through the series really fast and by the time Freedom is going up against the Three Stooges, I'm genuinely really liking it
Now here I am over a decade later. I like SEED more with every rewatch, and this applies to Destiny and Stargazer too.

>>23384246
Kira refuses to kill an opponent nowadays which makes him a pacifist.

>>23384236
>Garbage taste.
Sir this is a Gundam Seed thread.

>>23385330
That’s bull though, he just killed Orphee in Freedom

>>23385330
>>23385336
He not only straight up murders the main villain and the sympathetic girl who was in the robot with him, he also blows up a bunch of ships that presumably had people on board.

Iirc Athrun was also only disabling enemies in Destiny and he goes straight for the kill against the enemy ace guy as well.

>>23385356
Whoa wtf? When did he blow up ships?

>>23385359
When he uses the head cannon thing it cuts two ships in half.

>>23385359
>Whoa wtf? When did he blow up ships?
When he uses the lightning attack. Rewatch it. It hits a bunch of Zaft and Foundation ships. He kills everyone on those ships according to Director Fukuda.

>>23385330
You (and plenty of other people) conflate the meaning of "pacifist" with a no-kill principle.
That being said, Kira could still be "someone who opposes war or violence as a means of settling disputes" (Merriam-Webster - 'pacifist') all while waging war and inflicting violence upon others.
"Not through will alone, nor through strength alone" is the didactic conclusion of Freedom,
which itself is the conclusion of the SEED triptych which sees Kira struggling through these ideas over and over again.

>Kira doesn't kill people

Lmao

>>23385561
they TANKED that btw

>>23385330
Did you think he was on his way to Durandal to have some tea? Even in SEED, he took out ships carrying nukes with his METEOR.

>>23385584
I'm sure they did. They are just sleeping under all that rubble.

>>23385419
That isn’t blowing them up. I thought I missed something

>>23385692
During a Q&A with Japanese fans, one fan asked if using the Destiny suits violates the Treaty that bans nuclear weapons. And if the world will be upset that Compass used nuclear powered suits.

Fukuda responded that there were no survivors at the Battle of the Moon to tell the world that Compass broke the Treaty. The entire Foundation and Zaft fleet around the moon was annihilated with no survivors. Anyone that saw Mighty Strike Freedom was killed by the lightning attack.

>>23385713
I haven’t seen this. Link?

>>23385713
>The entire Foundation and Zaft fleet around the moon was annihilated with no survivors. Anyone that saw Mighty Strike Freedom was killed by the lightning attack.
Not a single image or video was leaked out or transmitted?? How is this possible???

>>23385717
I'm not defending Fukuda's reasoning. But that's what he said so we gotta go with it. The only way I can mentally justify it is...

1. MSF Lightning attack kills everyone inside the ships.

2. Lightning fries all electronics and renders them useless. Destroys all records.

3. Neutron Jammers floating in the air disrupt long range communication. Thus no transmissions made it out to tell the world about Mighty Strike Freedom.

All you have left of the ships are giant floating coffins with dead bodies inside. Zaft declares them rebel traitors and no one questions it.

>>23385713
Who cares what the dipshit says outside of the script?
Write a better script and you don't need to try explain away plot points that don't exist or are even shown as meta commentary.
Fukuda is a fucking idiot.

>>23385717
NTA
The fleet was nowhere near it when MSF hit all of them with the lightning and took out their electronics before they could even know what hit them, then all the Accords who actually saw the suits were killed.

>>23385713
People still fall for this lie? The question doesn’t even make sense. The Junius treaty only applies to the Alliance and ZAFT, it has no bearing on Orb or Compass or anybody else.

>>23385744
Can you blame the Japanese fans for not being sure? Fukuda himself can't decide if the Treaty matters anymore or not.

>>23385713
That was not what he said, you just can't help yourself can you?
>Due to the Mighty Strike Freedom's wide-area discharge attack shutting down all surrounding electronic devices and the annihilation of all enemy forces that sighted the unit, no records of the unit Infinite Justice Spec II or the Mighty Strike Freedom remain, apart from what was left of the allied forces.

>>23385676
I feel like the only reason they had Rey turn and shoot Durandal was just so Kira wouldn't have to do it.

>>23385729
>>23385736
This doesn't make sense. If the Lightning attack has such long range, then why didn't Orphee get hit by it? They could have ended the battle much sooner.

>>23385356
>the sympathetic girl who was in the robot with him
She chose to die. Just like how Talia chose to die back in Destiny.

>>23385766
If you rewatch the scene very carefully, Lacus purposely chooses not to target Orphee's unit with the lightning attack.

>>23385761
>and the annihilation of all enemy forces that sighted the unit
This doesn't contradict what the other anon said? Strike Freedom flew through the Zaft fleet earlier in the movie and was spotted by everyone. He was shooting down Zakus. Kira annihilated them all.

>>23385778
Mighty Strike Freedom is specifically what didn't get spotted. Given how it and IJ Spec II and not Destiny are singled out, I don't think the issue is with their power source leaking out - especially since they use fusion reactors in the movie and shouldn't need NJCs in the first place.
I think it's moreso that MSF and IJ remain 'secret weapons'.

Technically ZAFT never broke the Junius Treaty. Durandal told the world that Destiny and Legend were powered by batteries. There's some databook blurb about how Durandal designated their power source as battery powered.

And technically I guess thats true since the suits run off several Hyper Deuterion batteries, but conveniently omits that the batteries are recharged by a nuclear reactor during battle.

>>23385795
There's no way Durandel thought he could get away with that idea. That has got to be the stupidest paper thin excuse I've seen to get around the treaty.

>>23385801
NTA but technically speaking, I think the idea was just to pass them off as battery powered units without even bringing the reactor into it. That’s why the model numbers lump them in with the second stage suits as well.

>>23385795
How did Durandal explain the huge performance jump of Destiny and Legend? Like surely people would examine the footage and say "Yeah there's no way that's battery powered. I call BS."

>>23385815
By that point, the treaty is a formality. EA already threw nukes around.

>>23385811
This sounds right but idk for sure
https://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E3%83%87%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%A0
https://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%91%E3%83%BC%E3%83%87%E3%83%A5%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88%E3%83%AA%E3%82%AA%E3%83%B3%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E3%83%B3

>>23385824
>By that point, the treaty is a formality. EA already threw nukes around.
Unlikely since Zaft never retaliated with their own nukes against Earth.

You know what gets me? Lacus didn't give a shit that the Earth Federation destroyed several colonies and killed millions with Requiem. She didn't say a single thing against the Earth Federation. But when Durandal tried to use Requiem against Orb, Lacus condemned it. Even though was the most guilty since they worked directly with Djibril and even hid him when Heaven's base fell.

>>23383185
Jet fighters are all the time. It's cheaper to replace a plane than to retrofit a carrier. You also have to take a carrier fully out of commission to do the upgrade, with swapping the planes taking a few minutes + needing to do a supply transfer for new replacement parts.

>>23385844
Durandal doesn't want to destroy naturals or humanity
By the end of Destiny some of the EA is even allied with ZAFT

>>23385878
If he had just been 5% less retarded, he would have handily won

>>23385883
He literally would've achieved the most free victory ever if he just didn't send shit tier assassins to try and kill Kira and Lacus

>>23385815
Mobile suit technology advances so fast in Cosmic Era I think it's pretty hard to argue it's unbelievable just on the vibe or eyeball test.

The G-Project Gundams are seen as (and effectively are) impossibly powerful superweapons when they hit the field, within 2-3 years ZAFT are fielding mass production units superior to them, and tech around them also continues advancing

>>23385801
Durandal probably figured by the time anyone put enough together to call him out on it he'd already be the overlord.

The idea of the main protag becoming a villain is kino but it doesn't really work when he just jobs and is left humiliated at the end of it all.

>>23386024
Good job he wasn't the main protag then, just a little BITCH!

>>23386024
He isn’t a villain; he’s a victim.

>>23386024
The fact that he survived sure says a lot. Most of the character introduced in Destiny aside from him, the Hawke sisters, the DOM trio, Arthur, and Talia's son end up dying in the show.

>>23386024
He needed to follow the wrong path to its conclusion and lose everything before he could gain everything

>>23386024
It was just a Revenge of the Sith facsimile with a gay afterword.

>>23386217
>with a gay afterword
*Scene so kino it almost redeems the entire shitshow before that point

>>23386217
wait, seed destiny is an allegory for the invasion of iraq?

>>23385854
Is the Archangel even equipped to do repairs on Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice?

>>23386409
Yeah. Any ship can manufacture whatever parts they need on site, best shown when Duel Gundam gets a new arm and weapon built by the Vesalius after being damaged on it's first deployment, after only being stolen a couple days prior. In AA's case, it was able to service and repair the original Freedom just fine despite it being a stolen Zaft machine. It was able to repair the entire squad of Murasame's it picked up in Destiny (eventually, it took a while for all 12 to be fixed) SF and IJ should be no problem. It was even able to maintain and resupply Rising Immortal and the Gelgoog and Gyan early in Freedom.

>>23386432
> It was able to repair the entire squad of Murasame's it picked up in Destiny (eventually, it took a while for all 12 to be fixed) SF and IJ should be no problem.
NTA but it was more like 20 Murasames

>>23386464
When Cagalli deploys in the Akatsuki I count 12, plus Andy's one which Kisaka was using.

>>23385765
That's exactly why.
The remaster changing Nicol to just awkwardly run into the Strike's beam sword should've made it crystal clear they will go out of their way to make sure Kira has an excuse to not have blood on his hands. The only named character they can't handwave outright is Miguel who conveniently doesn't get mentioned anymore.
>>23385356
>He not only straight up murders the main villain and the sympathetic girl who was in the robot with him
They made it a point to show him not landing a direct hit. Not Kira's fault they didn't eject from the cockpit before it exploded!

>>23385561
people are too stupid to understand kira's character
how many years has it been?

>>23386780
>The remaster changing Nicol to just awkwardly run into the Strike's beam sword should've made it crystal clear they will go out of their way to make sure Kira has an excuse to not have blood on his hands
Isn't Fukuda on record saying that they changed the scene to highlight Nicol's sacrifice or something along those lines? And again, he undeniably killed people with the METEOR back in SEED.

>>23386817
>Isn't Fukuda on record saying that they changed the scene to highlight Nicol's sacrifice or something along those lines?
Fuck no. If they wanted to do that then they need to make him be more heroic in that scene, not more retarded. In the remastered scene, Kira pulls the sword AWAY so there's literally zero reason for Nicol to not be able to hit the Strike but somehow he completely fucking misses and runs into the sword anyway

>>23386780
That isn't why it was changed in the remaster, they thought that it was just garish for the guy who hates killing to hit him with a gigantic swing with windup that required him to shift the sword from his right to his left entirely
Kira has blood on his hands and neither SEED nor Destiny nor Freedom ever pretend he doesn't

>>23386817
It wasn't Fukuda, it was the animation director that wanted it changed
https://youtu.be/sVmwF1Nc4bc?si=F4jq4E7IeaUQLNSK

>>23386495
There's no way it wad just 12. They said in the anime that their arrival turned the tide of battle against Zaft. During the Battle of Orb, Destiny Gundam killed like 6 of them without even trying. So Archangel must have saved like 30 of them. The ship is big enough to do it. Just fill it to the brim.

>>23386887
They don't pick up enough people for 30 Murasame's. At the scene where Amagi apologizes to Cagalli on the bridge they've only picked up about 20 people (assuming they're all Amagi's group and not just regular AA crewman in the mix) and not all of them were pilots. Only a few people from the fleet decided to go to AA, most of the survivors went back with Yuna to Orb. When it shows the pilots wanting to help Kira and being denied during angel down, you only see about a dozen guys there.

>>23386887
It's a morale thing, not a numbers thing. The defenders fought better upon hearing that Cagalli was back and fighting on the frontline.

>>23385765
No, Morosawa has actually talked about why it was Rey. It was originally planned to be Kira, Shinn or Athrun, but as Rey developed, she started feeling sorry for him. He thought of himself as a person who shouldn’t exist, who only existed to be another Rau, and she wanted him to consciously choose a future that wasn’t decided for him or Shinn or anyone else.

>>23386887
I feel like I remember it being established somewhere that Archangel's intended capacity was around 8-10 (which originally would have been five Gundams + mobile armor wing) and the times when they take on board extras the ship has looked pretty packed. I don't it would be anywhere near 30
Even when giving the tour of Mineva Dullindal was coy about it's true capacity and it was meant to carry 8 before the Gundams were stolen and a couple of it's MPs lost

>>23386921
IIRC the Archangel can hold 5 mobile suits in each of the "legs" underneath the beam cannons. And about 10 to 20 in the center section of ship between the legs. But that's assuming Archangel is filled to the limit and no other cargo is there.

>>23382903 (OP)
overhated show. it had a bunch of great set pieces and a heavy focus on character development, which is why it is well liked

Why are some of you so hostile to Director Fukuda? He's one of the only Gundam Directors on social media. You can ask him questions directly instead of arguing about sources here. Fukuda also gives a bunch of interviews too. You should be happy he's so accessible.

can someone explain why kira kills and kira doesn't kill then? because shit seems inconsistent.

>>23387162
like shit's kinda confused he's like "i never want to lose anyone again" and then boom boom boom, oh talia, rey you want to die okay c u suckers, weeee im beaming ships all over the place oh wait no i can't kill grunt suits :(
like what the fuck

>>23387162
He doesn't kill when he can help it
Rau was too dangerous to live
Stella was about to kill thousands more
If he doesn't destroy the Messiah Neo Genesis will fire and wipe out the Orb fleet and then Orb
I don't think he actually wanted to kill Orphee and Ingrid

>>23387169
i mean... he'll destroy entire ships and not bat an eye. also yeah the orphee thing was kinda weird. "YOUVE NEVER FOUND LOVE WHICH IS WHY YOU'RE SO SCREWED UP"
oh shit i killed him oops. guess he legit won't ever find love mb teehee

>>23387169
>Stella was about to kill thousands more
The funny part is that Kira didn't kill Stella. Shinn did.

Stella had like tons of metal shrapnel shards stabbed into her body, and she was bleeding out because of Impulse and Shinn's attack.

Kira went out of his way to NOT hit the cockpit with his beams and beam sabers.

>>23387162
Kira's thing is essentially about the just use of power rather than pacifism
Never *wants* to kill, and won't whenever it's in his power not to, but will turn to it ultimately it's absolutely necessary

It's also why he holds Athrun to this standard (to the point of violence even) as he sees him as equal holding the same power he does, but won't enforce it upon any of his other allies

>>23387163
>like what the fuck
Killing the man that literally just tried to wipe out his homeland and throw the Cosmic Era into some worldwide dictatorship is fine. Dragging Talia and Rey out with them kind of defeats the point of his whole speech about people being made to make their own choices.
As for the ships, there's not much he can do there that won't end up getting at least some people killed. He can kill less with the Dragoons now at least.
>>23387172
His bitch ass had it coming for the shit he put Lacus through alone, which is to say nothing of the literal country he just nuked and the others he was planning to wipe. Why on Earth would he let him live?

>>23387193
>absolutely necessary
idkkkk some of these grunt ships....

>>23387199
If I remember right, when Kira dices one or two of those cruisers it's in the final battle, when they're in the middle of trying apocalyptic on the space colonies, he had to hit and run and move onto the next place he had to be to shoot down nukes

It's similar to how he killed a whole lot of people on the Mineva when he destroyed it's main gun, but it admittedly was seconds away from atomizing the Orb naval fleet

>>23387222
The problem with Kira in the first half of Destiny is ironically the same problem Athrun faced. Kira wasn't choosing a side. He was shooting everyone and making enemies of everyone. He was causing mass chaos on the battlefield which is worse is a lot of ways.

/m/ loves SEED. This board was literally created because of it.

>>23387229
It was created because of SEED Destiny specifically because /a/ was full of SEED Destiny threads

>>23387225
I don't think Kira and co. ever face any consequences for the shit they pull, do they or if they do it's shrugged off like nothing?

>>23387290
Consequences for what, saving lives?

>>23387119
>You should be happy he's so accessible
Nothing that idiot says is worth documenting. Sorry his wife died from brain cancer complications but she wasn't worth a shit either.

>>23387292
Not everyone lives but that's just how war is?

>>23387169
Every single one of those things can be handwaved as Kira not being directly responsible. Several of them he doesn't land a killing blow on and when he does have to do it they never show occupants being killed or they are literally out of his line of sight. In a better written series I would think this is genius to highlight what Kira is doing is dangerously hypocritical and it'll come back to bite him in the ass, but it's pretty obvious that is not the narrative they're going with and they just don't want to make the hero seem unheroic.

>>23387307
Is this the part where you have a melty because Fukuda didn't give Sting a block word or something along those lines?
>>23387311
NTA, but how is that even an answer to what he just said?
>>23387315
Kira never shies away from the fact that he has blood on his hands, even after acquiring the Freedom. There's no hypocrisy to be found because Kira never said he would never kill again in the first place.

>>23387315
>Every single one of those things can be handwaved as Kira not being directly responsible.
>Rau
HUH?

>>23387321
That one Anon was right. SEED haters ARE retarded.

Now for the real question: Is there any point in any of these shows or the movie where Kira, Lacus, or any of his allies see themselves as "heroes"? Sure, the narrative may treat them as such, mostly because other factions are cartoonishly evil, but what about the characters themselves? I think maybe Athrun and Meyrin told at Shinn and Luna that they're fighting for the wrong side in Destiny's final battle and the DOM Troopers' personality in Destiny was basically "Anyone who doesn't side with Lacus-sama is evil" but that's about it.

>>23387292
The entire point that Athrun makes is his interventions aren't saving lives, he's a chaos factor that ends up prolonging conflicts and turning them into battles of attrition that leave everyone more fucked up
He doesn't stop the fights between the Mineva and Orb, he just makes it so that Mineva is torn to shreds more than once, he had no effect on Destroy's rampage in Europe other than his presence causing the situation to collapse after Shinn had talked Stella down

It also has to be pointed out that his interventions against the Mineva are to protect Orb who are unambiguously bad guys in the situation, and outnumber the Mineva 20-to-1

>>23387321
He didn't even land a direct hit on Rau. Rau even puts his hands up from the impact. Best you might be able to say is the vacuum of space did him in but they make a very clear point to show Providence and Rau being destroyed by Genesis instead.

>>23387347
>his interventions aren't saving lives
Which is of course, factually wrong, they did reduce casualties on both sides. The Orb fleet was moments away from being annihilated in the first intervention. The Minerva would have been sunk at Crete and all their pilots picked off if Freedom didn’t save them.
>It also has to be pointed out that his interventions against the Mineva are to protect Orb who are unambiguously bad guys in the situation
That doesn’t put ZAFT in the right, and that doesn’t mean everybody in the Orb military should just die.

>>23387352
Bro he beam sabers the cockpit and Rau dies before Genesis even fires

>>23387347
>He had no effect on Destroy's rampage in Europe other than his presence causing the situation to collapse after Shinn had talked Stella down
NTA, but what did you expect Kira to do after witnessing that thing wipe out thousands? Leave it be after it stopped destroying shit for two seconds in real time?
>It also has to be pointed out that his interventions against the Mineva are to protect Orb who are unambiguously bad guys in the situation, and outnumber the Mineva 20-to-1
The goal of the interventions was to get Orb to fuck off back home because they shouldn't even be part of this conflict in the first place. It should be noted that the Archangel/Freedom's presence gave the sensible members among Orb a target to safely job against so they could minimize damage done against the Minerva and call it a day. Obviously, some members are more terminally retarded than others so the Minerva wound up getting fucked up regardless, but the alternative on either side is a bloodbath. That said, a bloodbath occurred anyway, with only a couple sensible soldiers among Orb's fleet leaving for the Archangel afterward...but they were useful in the Battle of Berlin...

>>23387354
>Which is of course, factually wrong, they did reduce casualties on both sides.
In individual battles. Not all at once. In the Minerva fired its weapon, the fleet is wiped out and the Minerva suffers no causalities. The battle at Crete never happens. Kira caused that battle to happen leading to the Orb fleet being sunk anyway but with more casualties on the Minerva side.
>That doesn’t put ZAFT in the right, and that doesn’t mean everybody in the Orb military should just die.
Why does this stupid argument keep getting brought up? This is war. This is an active battlefield. The Minerva were defending themselves. The Orb military were active combatants in a war. ZAFT was completely "right" in that instance.

>>23387360
Here's the pic too.

>>23387354
>That doesn’t put ZAFT in the right, and that doesn’t mean everybody in the Orb military should just die.

They were absolutely in the right there? Mineva was trying to avoid combat at all and get to ZAFT territory, Orb are the belligerents who at that time are full party members to a campaign of genocide against Coordinators, and they go after the Mineva with literally suicidal fervor. Hell the EA part of the op was being run by Phantom Pain, Blue Cosmos personal spec ops unit.

>>23387360
He beam sabers the cockpit and completely misses Rau but yes Rau is dead by the time Genesis goes off since for sure his helmet breaks and all the air is getting sucked out into space
Not sure how he wasn't instantly incinerated by the beam saber but lolanime

>>23387379
They aren’t fighting for survival like the Archangel was in SEED, the Minerva is deliberately ordered to go straight through Alliance territory. Even Talia is baffled by the order.

The Minerva didn’t do anything wrong, their leadership did. Just like Orb’s fleet.

>>23387352
>He didn't even land a direct hit on Rau
He definitely tried

>>23387372
Still less people died overall than if Minerva had been allowed to just wipe out the entire fleet with their cannon. Sure Zaft doesn't appreciate it, but in terms of total lives saved a fair portion of the Orb Fleet got to walk away from a battle they otherwise wouldn't have if not for Kira's intervention where Orb would have had zero survivors.

>>23387119
He contradicts himself constantly, has openly says he might change his mind on stuff long after the fact and makes it pretty clear that he doesn't give a shit about consistency or details and doesn't think the fanbase should either.

>>23386927
Which given how the layout of the ship is shown in universe should be impossible because the legs are the launch catapults, not hangars.

>>23387307
>Sorry his wife died from brain cancer complications but she wasn't worth a shit either.
Morosawa died of an aortic dissection, the same thing that killed Kentaro Miura. "Brain cancer" is an old myth.

>>23387372
>In individual battles.
That’s all they were trying to do. Stop Orb from fighting and getting themselves killed needlessly.
>Why does this stupid argument keep getting brought up?
Because that’s exactly the perspective Kira has. “The Alliance started all of this nonsense!” “Does that make ZAFT right? This whole war and all these deaths are just unavoidable?”
Paraphrasing but you get it.

>>23387639
>Stop Orb from fighting and getting themselves killed needlessly.
They tried it twice, and it failed. Orb's forces rebuffed them and just went merrily to their deaths on the orders of that dipshit Yuna. Even if the Cagalli clique thought the whole thing was a waste of lives, the troops went through with the attack and got pulverized by ZAFT: the Orb fleet was destroyed in Crete and didn't show up as part of any subsequent battles with the Alliance.

>>23387648
Some of them survived, which is more than would have if Kira hadn't gotten involved.

>>23387639
>That’s all they were trying to do. Stop Orb from fighting and getting themselves killed needlessly.
And they failed spectacularly and only caused people who wouldn't have died to die.
>Because that’s exactly the perspective Kira has. “The Alliance started all of this nonsense!” “Does that make ZAFT right? This whole war and all these deaths are just unavoidable?”
Paraphrasing but you get it.
And that's a really stupid position to take. Orb started this. Not ZAFT, not just the Alliance. Orb. They teamed up with the Alliance. They stood on their waters and forced the Minerva out. They ambushed the Minerva. You know what would have stopped all this? Going back and taking over the country politically which is exactly what Athrun told them to do.

>>23387651
So all of that effort just to get a handful of Murasame pilots? It's like blowing a bank vault with TNT only to steal ten bucks.

>>23387654
We see lots of people bailing out of the ships as Shinn is attacking them (since they weren't just completely atomized by a positron cannon with no survivors) so at least a couple hundred people must have survived. They didn't all join AA, most of the guys with Yuna went back to Orb with him.

>>23387653
>Orb started this. Not ZAFT, not just the Alliance. Orb. They teamed up with the Alliance. They stood on their waters and forced the Minerva out. They ambushed the Minerva. You know what would have stopped all this? Going back and taking over the country politically which is exactly what Athrun told them to do.
Another solution was, instead of pleading and crying like a bithh, Cagalli should've landed on the Takemikazuchi (escorted by Freedom, of course) arrest Yuna and put herself in command of the fleet.

>>23387653
>You know what would have stopped all this? Going back and taking over the country politically which is exactly what Athrun told them to do.

And it wouldn't have worked without starting a Civil War which Cagalli didn't have the spine to do. The Seirans had already taken over well before then.

>>23387653
>And they failed spectacularly and only caused people who wouldn't have died to die.
They saved the lives of Orb’s fleet who were all guaranteed to die otherwise. They saved the Minerva itself. Many personnel from Orb were able to make it back home safely. Heine being a moron does not negate that. The interventions objectively did more good than bad.
>Orb started this. Not ZAFT
Orb didn’t make ZAFT start invading Earth again. Orb didn’t tell the Minerva to get to Gibraltar by cutting straight through the Alliance’s sphere of influence.
>You know what would have stopped all this? Going back and taking over the country politically which is exactly what Athrun told them to do.
That’s solely the ZAFT perspective. Alternatively, the Minerva could just not provoke the Alliance.

>>23387657
>>23387659
Yuna hadn’t actually done anything actionable at that point I think. Hiding Djibril and getting the homeland invaded was enough to justify him being arrested.

>>23387656
>They didn't all join AA, most of the guys with Yuna went back to Orb with him.
The gaggle of Orb personnel we see on lifeboats, led by Amagi, end up on the Archangel.

As there was no Orb fleet to speak of anymore, it is not shown how Yuna managed to get back. He gets manhandled by Todaka on the Orb carrier [Phase 29], then just shows up back on the country scared about Logos's reveal [Phase 34].
Presumably, he was picked up by Neo's people on the Alliance's carrier and returned to the mainland, but it's odd that we don't see him doing his escape.

>>23387659
>And it wouldn't have worked without starting a Civil War which Cagalli didn't have the spine to do. The Seirans had already taken over well before then.
Not true at all. The soldiers stopped and listened to Cagalli before she was called a fake. In the second battle, they said Yuna was in charge so they're following his orders, not theirs. If she had taken over they would have followed her. Then at the battle of Orb, as soon as she confirmed her identity they immediately followed her orders. All of Orbs issues in Seed Destiny were due to Cagalli being worthless.

>>23387696
>If she had taken over they would have followed her.
Then why didn't she? Why didn't she do >>23387657 instead of that wimpy nonsense?

>>23387698
Cagalli believes still that Yuna is trying to act in Orb’s interest. It isn’t until Djibril is hiding in Orb that she finally realizes he is just totally full of shit.

>>23387694
>They saved the lives of Orb’s fleet who were all guaranteed to die otherwise.
We see two lifeboats with a score of people at most. The rest were all killed and their ships sunk.

>They saved the Minerva itself.
Or, the Minerva could've destroyed the Alliance fleet.

>the Minerva could just not provoke the Alliance.
>provoke
The fact that you fail to understand the nature of the ongoing conflict is your problem, not mine or anyone else's.

>>23387701
>Cagalli believes still that Yuna is trying to act in Orb’s interest.
Why would she continue to believe that at that stage? Does she think that Orb's navy just decided to attack ZAFT all on its own?

>>23387694
>They saved the lives of Orb’s fleet who were all guaranteed to die otherwise.
No, the fleet was still destroyed. Most of the soldiers dead. They failed to stop them. ZAFT stopped them by beating them.
>Orb didn’t make ZAFT start invading Earth again. Orb didn’t tell the Minerva to get to Gibraltar by cutting straight through the Alliance’s sphere of influence.
ZAFT did not invade Earth. ZAFT shot down Junius 7 and provided humanitarian aid across the planet. The EA tried to nuke the Plants leading to Meer telling the people of Plant to calm down and not become war hungry.
>That’s solely the ZAFT perspective. Alternatively, the Minerva could just not provoke the Alliance.
Yeah! Like by shooting down Junius 7! Or providing aid to Earth! Or defending themselves from nukes! Or delivering Cagalli home! Or leaving Orb and being betrayed by them and ambushed outside their waters by the EA. The EA and Orb were the aggressors.

>>23387705
Because basically everybody else in the government was in favor of joining the Alliance too, it’s not like he randomly imposed it on his own.

>>23387710
Pretty much. Didn't Cagalli have no supporters because of all father's supporters died in their suicide pact back in SEED?

>>23387703
Not relevant. They kept the entire fleet from dying immediately. More people survived than would have if they did nothing.
>Or, the Minerva could've destroyed the Alliance fleet.
Or, they could just not be in Alliance territory.
>The fact that you fail to understand the nature of the ongoing conflict
The Dardanelles and Crete are both in Eurasia. ZAFT got attacked WITHIN Alliance territory.

>>23387706
See above.
If they weren’t invading, they shouldn’t have been in their territory. Again, it was a needlessly provocative move that even Talia questioned.

>>23387703
>We see two lifeboats with a score of people at most. The rest were all killed and their ships sunk.

Yuna's not with them so more lifeboats must have gotten away offscreen since Yuna is alive and well later on.

The logic of Orb worked with the Alliance and thus don't deserve to live and must all die, only Zaft lives matter, is exactly the kind of thing Kira and co refused to accept in the final arc of SEED. Of course they wouldn't roll with it a second time.

>>23387719
>If they weren’t invading, they shouldn’t have been in their territory. Again, it was a needlessly provocative move that even Talia questioned.
That was after they attacked ZAFT at Orb's waters.

>>23387728
>Yuna's not with them so more lifeboats must have gotten away offscreen since Yuna is alive and well later on.
Or, he could've made a solo escape in a helicopter, while the Orb soldiers had to go the lifeboats.

>>23387736
Considering the ship was on fire and listing so bad the Murasame's on top were falling into the ocean, I don't think Yuna could have made it to a helicopter. And I certainly don't think an incompetent guy like him is able to pilot anything even a helicopter even in regular circumstances, let alone out of a sinking burning ship.

>>23387719
>Or, they could just not be in Alliance territory.
>The Dardanelles and Crete are both in Eurasia. ZAFT got attacked WITHIN Alliance territory.
>If they weren’t invading, they shouldn’t have been in their territory.
You literally do not understand the story that is taking place. There is a war going on, and ZAFT took the side against Logos and provide support to anti-Alliance movements.

Did you miss the part where the Alliance was enslaving people on Earth, which Shinn liberated? Or the establishing shots where they go around oppressing everyone from Eurasia that didn't agree with them? Or the whole underground anti-Alliance movement around the Lohengrin battery? Or the Alliance civilians grateful to see kind ZAFT soldiers, compared to the "rowdy" EA troops?

>>23387750
>And I certainly don't think an incompetent guy like him is able to pilot anything even a helicopter even in regular circumstances, let alone out of a sinking burning ship.
You think that VIPs are manning their own craft? They have dedicated pilots and chauffeurs for those purposes.

Anon, are you stupid? Are you a fucking moron? What was the point of even writing this?

I'm on episode 14 of destiny and this guide made me think it was bad but I am actually really enjoying it. I think I rather missed all the newtype autism. Kira fucking teleporting was hard to swallow saved only by how comical it was. If anyone has an updated guide, I'd appreciate it.

>>23387758
Then he's not making a solo escape is he?

>>23387764
>VIP
>pilot
>security detail
That's all you need.

That's a bit different than cramming Yuna in a lifeboat to be picked up by whomever. It would've made for a comical scene, though.

>>23387802
>VIP
>pilot
>security detail
That's what I mean with "solo", not literally "Yuna personally piloting a helicopter" or cramming him in a lifeboat to be picked up by whomever. It would've made for a comical scene, though.

>>23387751
Logos being bad does not mean everything ZAFT does is good. ZAFT opposing Logos doesn’t mean that anybody who opposes ZAFT is bad.

>>23387761
It only really starts getting 'bad' after like episode 38
Before then it's just confused at most

>>23387761
SEED Destiny is honestly very far from the worst of Gundam. Those charts stopped getting made because at the end of the day, it’s just personal bias.

>>23387807
Which I think was meant to be the lesson for Shinn that not everyone who was on his side was good and not everyone who wasn't was bad.

>>23387761
The first half Destiny is decent.

The Second half falls in quality because Kira returns and takes over as main character again.

Shinn stops getting as much screen time. The Minerva becomes a side character ship and Archangel takes over.

Everyone always mentions Shinn's happy smile when reuniting with the Destiny but I always liked Athrun's smirk here showing that he has confidence in Shinn even though they still have a strained relationship

>>23388009
Looks like Erica's smiling too and Meyrin wants to see what's going on.

>>23388009
Athrun had some nice stuff to say in the drama CDs too. Kinda makes you feel bad for him.

>>23388009
Stop using the Netflix version. Use the Remastered version.

>>23388031
Yeah, he was worried about Shinn not getting along with anyone on the Archangel only to find out he's doing just find. Showing he does care even if they're relationship is down the drain.

>>23388034
The remastered upload on nyaa has the brightness fucked beyond belief

>>23388036
Not just that, but when he thinks of the people who have saved him, he thinks of Kira, Cagalli, and Shinn. He’s glad Shinn can finally smile more freely, and muses that he’s surely going to keep getting stronger.

>>23388077
That’s an HDR one. There’s a Chinese subbed one that includes English. 22 GB torrent because it includes all the BD extras.

>>23388077
>The remastered upload on nyaa has the brightness fucked beyond belief

Anon...update your video player. Stop embarrassing yourself.

>>23388077
If you are using VLC player, then you need to enable HDR playback in the settings.

Otherwise it will have weird brightness and some scenes will be too bright, too washed out, or have a desaturated look.

>>23388077
Stop using outdated video players.

>>23388119
>>23388148
>>23388109
I'm using MPC...

>>23388156
MPC was discontinued and retired 10 years ago. It's not updated anymore. Get with the times grandpa.

Do you still use Windows XP too?

>>23388224
Original MPC ended but it was immediately forked and is still maintained to this day

>>23388156
And yet VLC Player can play the Remastered Gundam Seed Freedom HDR file on Nyaa without issue. No issues with color or brightness. Why don't you give it a try?

I never noticed the remnants of the Zeus silhouette in the background before, wtf happened

>>23384703
I hated Eva's redub.

>>23388156
Use multiple players.

>>23383122
>>23383664
>>23383708
>>23384149
>>23384703
>>23388505
This is what happens when you give creative control of the English dub to a Japanese studio that doesn't know how to speak English. You get "Enggrish" dubs.

This is what happens when weaboo American otakus demand dubs be more "authentic" to the original anime. So you get crappy dubs like Bleach where they don't even translate attack names and English voice actors must say the awkward Japanese name.

Or situations like Rebuild of Evangelion 3.0 and 4.0 where the studio demanded they approve all English lines. Or the horrendous Netflix dub where the voice actors were total garbage.

>>23388009
I feel like people overstate the enmity between them. Athrun doesn't hate Shinn at all and sees a lot of himself in him, with regards to losing family. Even when he was still horribly banged up, he got in the Justice to talk with Shinn.
Shinn begs Athrun to come back and not betray them when he deserts, cries when he thinks he's killed them, Athrun very nearly gets through to him when they meet again at Orb, and they go to the Orb memorial after Messiah together.

That said, they still don't get along post-series. Shinn appreciates Athrun stopping him, but their personalities just don't mesh. But it's not like they hate each other.

>>23388527
There's an entire arc in Destiny of Shinn coming to respect Athrun, it's just shattered by Athrun going off the rails.
If I remember right there's even a bit where Lunamaria tries to salvage it by telling Athrun something along the lines of "my man, more than anything Shinn respects conviction and using your strength to do good, be that guy again and he'll have your back". And surprise in Freedom Shinn has complete respect for Kira because that's like him in a nutshell.

>>23388534
>it's just shattered by Athrun going off the rails.
it's also shattered by Athrun getting shot down and then becoming a moping loser who still expects Shinn to respect him despite the fact that he does nothing to earn it

>>23388534
>And surprise in Freedom Shinn has complete respect for Kira because that's like him in a nutshell.
Yeah, Kira and Shinn are actually very similar even back in Destiny. Shinn is just more willing to murderize the fuck out of people who he views as obstacles, and had comparatively poor role models/guardian figures.

>>23388534
But Athrun was correct to "lack conviction".
His decision to rejoin Zaft was 100% correct since Federation attempted to immediately genocide all coordinators in response to actions of an isolated terrorist group and then it's slowly revealed to him that Durandal is also a psycho.
Being confused in a scenario like that is perfectly reasonable. Those were correct decisions given the context and information that were available to him at the time.
Like, Shinn was objectively wrong to put his lot in with Durandal's.

>And surprise in Freedom Shinn has complete respect for Kira because that's like him in a nutshell.
Destiny Shinn would absolutely shit on Kira when he was crying like a bitch about Lacus not loving him anymore.

>>23388281
>I never noticed the remnants of the Zeus silhouette in the background before, wtf happened

My guess? I seriously doubt the story is only about "Hijacking Strike Freedom" and trying to escape with Strike Freedom.

Remember Zeus Silhouette requires a nuclear reactor in order to be fired at full power. I'm guessing the person stole Strike Freedom and also took Zeus Silhouette. Then combined Zeus Silhouette with Strike Freedom and tried to snipe important Orb facilities like those several underground facilities and Orb bunkers. Since that's exactly what Zeus Silhouette was designed to do - be a bunker buster and penetrate deep underground. But the plan was stopped by the Black Knights who just "happen" to be nearby.

That's my guess. Let the record show I am the first person on 4chan to guess it. I will be happy in 2 years when proven right when Freedom Zero is released in theaters as a movie.

>>23388735
>Like, Shinn was objectively wrong to put his lot in with Durandal's.
Do you mean at the end of the series, or at the beginning?

>>23388234
-BE is the preferred fork right? Not -HC?

I've been reading posts and wondering something.

Why do so many fans say that Foundation will probably steal Strike Freedom's data in the upcoming prequel movie? But why? Where does this speculation come from? Does Foundation even need it? For what? Funnel technology and energy wings? The EA already has funnel technology, Geshmeidig Panzer, and phase shift armor. And Foundation is a former EA state.

Also It was my understanding that watching the Seed movie that the Rebel Zaft faction gave Foundation a lot of help. Like all those leftover Ginns and older suits. It's very likely also secretly gave all classified technology Zaft had like the data on Destiny and Legend Gundam. So that's possible on how Foundation acquired it themselves, and improved upon it for Orphee's suit and other Black Knights.

(Although it would be much cooler to me if Foundation simply developed their own technology independently)

I know the Prequel movie won't be out for at least another 1 to 2 years. But I just found it odd why fans insist on Freedom's data being taken. The Freedom heist seems more like an attempt to discredit Compass, attack Orb if possible, and maybe force Compass to get rid of their nuclear powered suits. Make everyone so mad that Strike Freedom was nearly taken that all participating Compass countries say that Compass must use battery power suits only. That way the Foundation knows their Black Knight suits can better handle battery powered Compass suits like Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice. After all... The Black Knights definitely didn't fear those suits at all during the movie. They were laughing at those suits iirc.

Plus Orphee seems so unbelievably prideful. It doesn't seem like he would accept Kira and Strike Freedom's data. It seems to me that Orphee and the Black Knights would make their own suits to mock Kira. So show that their technology is superior to the weak and inferior Kira.

Sorry for the rant. Just wanted to share my thoughts.

>>23388971

1. The Cal-re.A doesn't use the Wings of Light. It uses an anti-gravity field called a "Levitator". So it's floating not flying.

2. The official databooks and information say the Cal-re.A was built using technology acquired from Plant and mixed with Foundation technology.

>>23388982
Then why does Gundam wiki say it was developed from Strike Freedom?

>>23389030
>Gundam wiki
Ugh. This site is full of errors and people making random guesses. Gundam wiki is a joke. Don't take it seriously. Currently, there is absolutely no evidence that says Cal-re.A is developed from Strike Freedom. None. Zero. The Gundam wiki is just making shit up.

Also they are notorious for plagiarism and stealing from MAHQ and other websites. Literally just copy pasting the same words onto the wiki.

I would edit the damn Gundam wiki myself to fix their errors but the site is locked down to only registered users. It's run by weirdos who are extremely territorial, and don't like people touching "their articles". So I don't bother. I don't think it's worth my time.

>>23388759
I assume they mean later on when Athrun switches sides.

>>23389030
>>23389038
It has been theorized that the Karura was based on data from SF, Shiva on data from IJ, and Rudra on data from Destiny, but there's nothing conclusive about it, and it should be noted in the trivia section at best.

Gundam Wiki also gave Wakkein's full name as Gene Wakkein... because his VA was credited as voicing "Gene, Wakkein" in the show. So I personally will never trust anything on there. Use the Japanese wikis instead.

>>23388971
Wasn't it hinted that Foundation was secretly supporting Blue Cosmos? I'm sure Foundation had data on Destroy Gundams too.

>>23389056
The Black Knights don't need Compass data to build suits that look like them. I mean come on... "leg beam sabers" aren't exactly classified technology. And Calamity Gundam was doing the chest beam cannon thing way back in Season 1. Anti-ship swords aren't exclusive to Destiny Gundam either.

>>23389038
The only assumption people have on that is that Foundation seized SF for a few days then gave it back following the Freedom theft incident that they supposedly caused. Given they orchestrated it yet didn't destroy it when they had the chance it's a logical connection to make that they wanted to get a look at it for whatever reason.

>>23389076
The Karura’s rendition of the wings of light is identical to SF’s, down to needing to deploy its dragoons to use them.

>>23388971
Freedom Zero will probably clarify the timeline, but as of now I'm pretty sure Compass was already switching to Rising and Immortal when the Freedom hijack happened. In fact I don't think Strike Freedom was ever used by Compass prior to the movie's finale, just in the interim for whatever Kira was doing between then. Granted the whole thing could have just been so they'd own Foundation one for their later plan in the movie but >>23389309
as anon says, Foundation seemingly went out of their way to seize SF intact keep it for a while, then returned it when they could have taken the opportunity to either destroy or keep it for themselves which suggests they wanted to get a look at it for something.

>>23389328
>which suggests they wanted to get a look at it for something
Lacus nudes saved on the back-up hard drive.

>>23389315
No matter how similar they look, The databooks say it's not the wings of light. It's completely different technology.

>>23389328
>Foundation seemingly went out of their way to seize SF intact keep it for a while, then returned it when they could have taken the opportunity to either destroy or keep it for themselves which suggests they wanted to get a look at it for something
Where does it say that? For all we know from the trailer and flashback scene, Strike Freedom was hijacked and then shot down by Black Knights while still in Orb Territory. The hijack completely failed but severely hurt Compass' reputation.

On the surface, Compass isn't run very well.
>Team leader tries to solo armies despite having two other aces and a sniper on his team
>They built a MS for a guy who never joined them, then never had the time to recalibrate that suit for the ace who got it as a hand-me-down
>But then Agnes has three times the engineers compared to every other pilot
>Agnes is just a net drain on the team in terms of how much support she needed versus battlefield performance and team cohesion

In going to guess that the Strike Freedom is going to get far more destroyed than what we see in the flashback. It's probably going to get Saviour'd.

Its the only explanation on why Kira was surprised to see Strike Freedom in the movie. It was rebuilt.


I'm also gonna guess that Proud Defender was in development during Freedom Zero, but the development got delayed when SF is destroyed. So they had to switch to Rising Freedom. But since Rising Freedom is a mass production battery powered suit, it doesn't have the power necessary to run Proud Defender correctly. Since Fukuda said it needed 2 nuclear reactors.

>>23389719
>They built a MS for a guy who never joined them, then never had the time to recalibrate that suit for the ace who got it as a hand-me-down
I'm gonna guess that Athrun probably thought he himself was going to use Infinite Justice. And he would lead a team of people using Immortal Justice, and train them how to fight in his style. Director Fukuda did say Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice were mean to be mass produced for Compass Ace pilots. But then Athrun found out Kira was gonna be overall command and changed his mind. Or maybe he saw Foundation save Orb, but Athrun got super suspicious about the whole situation and said he wanted to investigate Foundation.

>>23389745
Athrun just didn't want to leave the Orb forces. I doubt he cared which Justice he ended up using.

>>23389958
Athrun went to all the trouble of covering Infinite Justice with Zgok armor just so he could keep using it secretly. It definitely seems like Athrun does care about Infinite Justice.

>>23385356
The missile ships really looked very drone like and got all their telemetry from Orphee's suit.

>>23390014
Those were the Ziggurats. Essentially remote-controlled METEORs.

>>23389038
Why not make a Fandom account?

>>23384341
Really pissed me off nobody got on shinn for that. Dude got on Cavalli letting people die but was perfectly fine letting Stella merc a whole ass city.

>>23382903 (OP)
It's a worse 0079. It gets progressively worse as it strays from the original and becomes trash as soon as Strike is destroyed. Destiny had like 10 good episods at the beginning and then Kira showed up and they switched MC.

>Coordinator are infertile by 3rd gen.
>Problem will sort itself out alone given time
>2 world wars and billions dead over it anyway.

Fllay was the only interesting thing in the entire AU.

>>23394213
The only one who would have realistically done that (Athrun) tried to scold him about the matter but he was more to the point about the problem.

>>23394237
Athrun might be the only character in that show that gets punished for being logical.

>>23399635
What do you mean?

>>23399645
Try to reason with Kira on there first encounter.
Miguel gets merced

Tried to reasoned with Kira again
Nicol gets mercd (Unintentionally) by Kira

Questioned his father and tried to reason with him.
Gets shot

Justifiably chews out shinn for is selfish nature and questions zaft in seed destiny
Ends up getting incrimated and jumped by Rey and shinn, almost dying with severe injuries.

Either that or athrun just has really shitty luck.

>>23399663
Honestly man I think its just really shitty luck. And the fact that Shinn was being a hardass.

>>23382945
I'm watching destiny right now for the first time, and yeah, the plot is getting preachy as shit about half-way through. War is bad mkay?

>>23399924
War IS bad anon

>>23399927
Well yeah, but I don't need them to beat me over the head with the spiel it every episode.

>>23399663
>>23399681
Athrun's problem when he was on the Minerva was that, while he was pretty much correct in a general/higher order sense, he absolutely sucked at relating that to moment to moment events to get Shinn to see things from that same perspective. Admittedly Shinn was super hard-headed, but Athrun didn't help himself by doing everything he could to lose credibility with the other pilots. One wonders if Athrun not working out as a mentor was part of Durandal's plan, or just something that happened to work in Gil's favour in terms of turning Shinn into the enforcer/attack dog of the Destiny Plan.

Athrun is the true protagonist of Destiny and you can't convince me otherwise.

>>23394228
True that.

>>23400257
With how shinn got shafted, I agree

>>23400257
That's how Morosawa viewed it

If you're going to suffer through Destiny, at least watch Stargazer and see one of the high points of the CE timeline

>>23400257
No one believes that.

>>23400879
>All this glaze for an animated rough draft
All this for the atmosphere and soundtrack?

>>23400320
I'm convinced they never wanted to make Shinn or any of the new characters but were forced to by higher ups to make it like Zeta. So, they made Shinn shit on the old cast to make you want to root for them especially when they beat him in the end.

>>23400912
No. I think Gundam Seed Destiny was only written to about 12 episodes. But the writer was suddenly forced to extend the series to 50 episodes, and didn't have enough ideas. That's why the writing was so tight and we'll done in the first 12 to 15-is episodes. But everything afterwards was so strange.

>>23400879
Stargazer is the lowest rated entry in CE lol

>>23400912
SEED Destiny has very, very little in common with Zeta.

>>23401039
>SEED Destiny has very, very little in common with Zeta.
Nigga, fuck off.

>>23401068
>Athrun uses a fake name
And that's the end of the similarities.

>>23401069
Seems like they were trying to make Athrun a mentor to Shinn like Quattro was for Kamille but he failed miserably.

And Stella and the Destroy Gundam were clearly homages to Four and the Psyco Gundam.

>>23383916
>>23384041
>>23384161
Notice how people who defend SEED/Destiny have sub room temperature IQs

>>23401105
You say that, but then SEED haters get routinely blown the fuck out in these threads

>>23387761
>>23387823
Notice how none of these retards actually explains why the assertion is wrong

>>23401113
>but then SEED haters get routinely blown the fuck out in these threads
>ITT SEEDhaters pay more attention to the plot than actual SEEDfags

>>23401208
You don't though, you get all sorts of basic shit wrong constantly
One of you in another thread (who got banned) even bitched about things in the movie that were the exact opposite of what happened

>>23400879
>Seed = 79
>Destiny = Zeta
>Stargazer = 8th MS Team
It's like pottery, it rhymes.

>>23401228
This retard has yet to make an actual point. Why waste your breath?

Seed Destiny was only written to be about 15 episodes. It's supposed to end around the time of the Colony drop and Athrun getting Saviour Gundam.

Morosawa didn't plan to write more than that since she ran out of ideas. But Fukuda forced her to continue writing more. Suddenly the quality of the writing drops. Minerva just floats around for 10 episodes on Earth not doing any important, and getting shot at by Orb. Then Morosawa says screw it, ans reinteoduces Kira and the Archangel crew again. Then they take over the anime. Shinn and the Minerva are sidelined.

>>23401518
14.5 episodes

>>23401518
Nice headcanon

>>23401594
Go away Wackymodder84.

Why don't you make another 4 hour video about why Seed beam sabers can't touch eachother.

Or a 5 hour video about how you cohld design a better Destiny video.

>>23382903 (OP)
Seed was low mid. Had a decent start, but it got dragged by flaws that are pretty much absent in other Gundam series

It is like GoT, it went into the edginess of including a plotline with teenage sex manipulation, but the ending is absolutely unfit a series with such a plotline. It isn't even a decent ending to begin with. Kira isn't capable to stand up in philosophical debate against Rau, and survives it only because Rau decided to troll him by killing Flay instead of taking an advantage of Kira exposing himself.

SEED is retconned from a dangerous berserk mode into special snowflake status that Lacus activities while sitting in the battleship, for no other reason but to make her look important. The series also has retconned a related to this death.

Even at its best SEED was a teenage melodrama. All Kira's friends only ever talked about Kira. N Jammers were pure magic with a ton of potential consequences of its existence. The director explicitly thrown in space whales with an intention of never explaining them. He liked to play a piano became a meme for a reason, it was such a hilariously cheap way of forcing sympathy.

It was better than Wing, which never was well written to begin with, but that really isn't saying much.

>>23401638
Nah Wing was much better and still is one of the best Gundams shows they made

>>23384230
The difference between Loran and Kira is that Loran is a strong character with explicit goal and conviction.

Loran was sent by the Moonrace to take part in a peaceful return to the Earth. That was what he has signed for since day one. That was what Diana has promised him.

Before getting a Gundam, Loran already gets connections with people who can participate in diplomatic solutions to the conflict. Through the series he works with those people on avoiding escalation where neither side goes too far, which is why he himself avoids killing. Also, the way he avoids killing can be entertaining in itself due to better direction and creativity with fights.

Kira is dragged in genocidal conflicts, mops about being forced to kill soldiers who want to kill his friends, and avoids killing solely to satisfy his own feelings about it with no plan of solving the conflict. He isn't even able to talk back against Rau, whe even Kio has rebutted his villain. And he spares enemies through cheap automatic beam spam that reuses stock footage.

>>23401655
It drags like hell in the middle

>>23401658
>The difference between Loran and Kira is that Loran is a strong character with explicit goal and conviction.
Nearly everything you listed wound up being a byproduct of Loran's circumstances/setting.
>no plan of solving the conflict
You mean like nearly every Gundam protagonist until at least the halfway mark? How is this even criticism?
>Isn't even able to talk back against Rau
Kira says that all Rau has is his own twisted perspective as a reference for anything. Rau agreeing with this effectively made further conversation pointless.
>>23401621
Think you replied to the wrong guy.

>>23401940
>Nearly everything you listed wound up being a byproduct of Loran's circumstances/setting.
Yeah, it was a story where there was a reason for conflict, but things could be negotiated. I responded to a question why Loran isn't so out of place as Kira is.

>You mean like nearly every Gundam protagonist until at least the halfway mark?
See above, Turn A is a different kind of war story where war doesn't go hot.
But Kira starts sparing enemies as a cope mechanism after the half point, so your point is moot anyway.

>Kira says that all Rau has is his own twisted perspective as a reference for anything
Great, then put the mad dog down.
>turns his back to Rau and then needs to be consoled by Flay's ghost to finally go all out
Yeah, people saw Athrun as the real hero of SEED for a reason

>>23401658
>He isn't even able to talk back against Rau
You didn’t watch it
As always, SEED haters are retarded

>>23401953
>Yes
So what is the point of comparison then?
>So your point is moot anyway
I said at LEAST for a reason. The question remains. How is this even criticism?
>Great, then put the mad dog down
He did. You watched the show, right?
>turns his back to Rau and then needs to be consoled by Flay's ghost to finally go all out
What is it with you people and being disingenuous? Do you think you can meme your way into having a point? In the first place, you understand Kira couldn't hear Flay, right? He couldn't have been out of it for longer than a couple seconds.

>>23401638
I don't want to get embroiled in a big back-and-forth point-by-point debate but there are a few misconceptions here.
>Kira isn't capable to stand up in philosophical debate against Rau
After Rau kills Flay, Kira doesn't care about appealing to him. He straight up just tells him to shut up.
>SEED is retconned from a dangerous berserk mode
That isn't what it was depicting, the SEED has no bearing on your mental state. Those were just Kira and Athrun's mentalities at the time you were seeing.
>N Jammers were pure magic
Not really. It's sci-fi tech, yeah, but something like an N-jammer is within the realm of theoretical possibility.

>>23401638
>SEED is retconned from a dangerous berserk mode into special snowflake status that Lacus activities while sitting in the battleship, for no other reason but to make her look important.

Still don't know how lacus activated SEED when all she was doing was sitting down and watchting the fight. She practically activated seed just to be kiras hype man.

>SEED mode
The anime never really explains it and when it does it's treated like an afterthought when Kira wakes up in the plants.

>>23402319
What more explanation do you need from what the show gave?

>>23402374
I am not looking for explanation but more acknowledgement about it. It gets its own sequence and is part of the title but as far as the characters are concerned it's not even there.

>>23402396
To be fair, it does have repercussions/significance for Kira, especially in the first half.

>>23402319
It gets brought up. Too bad its super brief. Had to literally double check to see if seed was exclusive to coordinators when Cagalli just used out of nowhere.

>>23401658
He did. Rau tried to challenge kiras his views on his existence as coordinator while he was shooting him. Even their 2nd fight had a big ass argument as they were trying to kill each other.