>Makes A New Translation to tie in Char's Counterattack
>Removes the scenes that ties in to Char's Counterattack

Stop watching Gundam made after G-Saviour.

ZZ ANT would legitimately fix it.

Zeta is completely incompatible with the events of CCA. It's like trying to say FE7 makes sense wih FE6.

>Makes A New Translation to tie in Char's Counterattack
What the fuck?

>>23390781
People told me not to watch Zeta because ANT is the new canon.

>>23390813
What kind of idiot are you and the people you interact with.

>>23390813
They just want to spare you having to watch ZZ, and that’s perfectly valid

Stop watching gundam made before GQuuuuuuX.

>>23390828
ZZ is actually half-good. Zeta is a mess.

>>23390755 (OP)
>Removes the scenes that ties in to Char's Counterattack
Such as?

>>23390813
Nobody told you that.
Do you like that? Lying to strangers on the internet?
What makes you do such a thing?

>>23391690
The voices in my head.

Zeta is actually skippable along with ZZ specifically with regards to setting up CCA.

>>23390828
>Spare you from cool mechs and haman in a bikini and shutter shades
Why?

The only thing of significant story diversion that is axed in regards to Char is Char's speech at Dakar, which was still a really bizarre narrative choice to not include given how important it is to the downfall of the Titans.

>>23390813
/m/ explicitly says the opposite of this. Compilation films are not substitutes for watching TV series.

>>23392214
Gundam fans are infamous for making their stuff exceptions. So many people who say "Don't watch '79, watch the compilation movies". "Don't watch Seed or Destiny, watch the compilation movies if you really feel you need to". And in Zeta's case, "Don't watch ZZ Gundam, it rapes Zeta, plus the compilation movies delete it from canon like it rightfully deserves".

>>23392201
>a really bizarre narrative choice to not include given how important it is to the downfall of the Titans.
Because it isn't. What destroys the Titans is the superior firepower of Gryps II and Axis's sheer numbers.

>>23392254
And all of them are wrong.
Only watch compilation movies for TV series on a rewatch, even G-Reco.

>>23392201
>>23392257
Char drinking whiskey is very important to the plot.

>>23392382
Fuck no. You can't trust anything said or done in these compilations.

>>23392547
you're talking about Amuro and Char's conversation? was that kept? Unironically the most important part of the anime for the plot

>>23392257
No anon, the it was literally the Titans losing public face that became became down fall.

>>23390755 (OP)
>Makes A New Translation to tie in Char's Counterattack
No it was just made to celebrate Zeta's 20th anniversary. All changes were just to make it work as a stand alone movie trilogy.

>>23392254
The only gundam fans that say anything even close to this are the voices in your head

>>23392926

>>23392201
It was more important to CCA

>>23392201
>>23392950
No it wasn't. They never lose public support in Zeta itself. Fuck man, we see Federation officers with them all the way until the end. That speech was to set up Char's eventual turn. It may be the only real foreshadowing for it Tomino managed to actually put on film.

That speech costing them public support is headcanon devised to give the show some narrative cohesion and logic. And it just doesn't have much of either.

>>23392992
I've never heard anyone say it about SEED and Destiny or Zeta, but I've unironically heard people say skip 0079 TV and watch the comp movies instead, especially here on /m/.

>>23392254
>Don't watch Seed or Destiny, watch the compilation movies if you really feel you need to
I was a victim if this. Unlike MSG, SEED's compilation movies are literally compilations, pacing is weird. The only aspect I like was the montage of Kira fighting spliced together with him having sex with Flay.

>>23392670
>Only ... on a rewatch

>>23393013
yeah that one is important too
all three Char Drinking Whiskey scenes are very important

>>23393050
>That speech was to set up Char's eventual turn. It may be the only real foreshadowing for it Tomino managed to actually put on film.
Wrong and wrong again. Tomino abandoned Zeta around 30 episodes in so he could work on scripts for CCA.
Episode 37 is solely the work of the Zeta writing team, mainly the one writer who thought the cast should be treated as people rather than mouthpieces for gender roles. She didn't have any idea what Tomino had planned for Char, so she presumably wrote him as an arrogant flyboy who just wanted to die a warrior's death for a righteous cause in defiance of his war hero legacy and family name, and had to constantly be guilted into doing more than piloting the Hyaku Shiki.

>>23393050
What version of zera did you watch, because the titans were disavowed after that speech, on their own afterwards, no more funding for any more of their bullshit, nor any support from the federation itself, had to ally with Haman and Axis to level things, further ruining their optics, only to then get snaked by Haman, and left to fight for themselves under the control of fucking Scirocco, the simp from jupiter. There's a reason they got extremely desperate to stop char from trying to speak at Dakar.

>>23393373
>>23393377
>it's just filler
So non-canon that Tomino reused it in CCA with Char giving another speech and saying "I feel like a clown" again.

>>23393050
>That speech costing them public support is headcanon
iirc it was mentioned that Titans lost resources after that, but there were at least 3 other reasons they lost, mostly the infighting and getting vaporized by Haman's colony laser

also Char's endorsement matters more than anything in UC so maybe he has a point

>>23393377
And yet Tomino himself thinks Zeta's plot would flow the same without that speech.

>>23393421
And years later, he would be proven that he was wrong, as more and more people misunderstand Char and wank him off for all the wrong reasons.

>>23393377
That desperation funding shit never happened in the show. You made that up. And who would just stop funding a rogue military extremist faction but not shut them down?

You're inventing ways for the show to make sense

>>23393521
>And who would just stop funding a rogue military extremist faction but not shut them down?
The titans had outgrew the federation in terms of jurisdiction, before the speech the Titans had full control given to them by the federation, and when the titans were disavowed they, they were too big to just shut down. The pulled funding was suppose to reign them back in, but instead the straight up succeeded the federation.

>>23393531
That's a lot of shit that never happened in the show you invented.

>>23393564
So then, tell me what happened in Zeta then?

>>23393421
I think it was long ago established that Tomino is an idiot.

>>23393373
Btw this is completely untrue in every regard.

>>23393421
Tomino said in interviews that he forgot the plot/characters years before A New Translation was released.

>>23393584
>>23393473
Tomino is a genius, you're just too much of a redditor to appreciate the complexities of this cinematic masterpiece.

>>23390755 (OP)
>>23392984
>mfw i don't give a shit because all the sequels are nothing more than unwanted AUs/What-Ifs based on the movie trilogy

>>23393703
Demanding human extermination because of an irreconcilable sin problem is a conclusion the smallest child would make.

>>23394001
Earth had less than 1 billion people on it, brainlet.

>>23394042
>Source: My ass

>>23390813
You were tricked by bitter old elitists who lost their battle years ago.

>>23394042
Not even an argument.

>>23394053
Why do people demonize ZZ?

>>23394071
Not even an anime.

>>23393731
Is this why The Origin and its fans are completely insufferable? It all makes sense now.

>>23394071
Japanese fans decreed it was not an anime

>>23394071
>Why do people demonize ZZ?
The real answer is that it takes a while to start taking itself seriously and it's a hard tonal whiplash from Zeta early on. Like 20 episodes or so in. If you're binge watching you'll definitely be saying "What the fuck?" quite a few times and it just kind of interrupts the flow of UC Gundam.
I personally thought Victory was a lot worse overall.

>>23394282
I'm probably in the minority on this, but I felt the lighter tone was a breath of fresh air after Zeta, I ended up enjoying ZZ a lot overall

>>23393731
>implying first Gundam wasn't also Tomino venting
Genwunners didn't even read the novel.

>>23394071
>>23394282
It also has some of the worst writing in Gundam tv when they pick Glemy, a frontline grunt, giving him quick promotions and then on top of that then try to retcon him into a higher up all along for some unfathomable reason, like they're hoping the viewers just don't remember what was happening 10 episodes before... rather than just introducing a separate character for that role.

>>23394282
>interrupts the flow of UC Gundam
No, ZZ is exactly what UC characters fought for and it further puts CCA into perspective

>>23394309
>implying this didn't happen before with Scirocco appearing in like episode 8

>>23394325
it's not whether or not they appeared earlier or not, the issue that scirocco was presented as a manipulative person who started off as leader of his own subset of the Titans, which means he's already 75% of the way up the organizational ladder and has a decent shot of taking the top spot

in the beginning, glemmy's a fucking newbie recruit who's never been in battle before and constantly gets tricked by people, displays zero awareness or aptitude for leadership, and doesn't gain experience along the way that makes any sense for why he's leading half of neo zeon

>>23394355
His Puru clones

>>23394282
>Zeta: everyone is an idiot or an asshole or both, the AEUG pilots are morally no better than their Titans counterparts which is why it's so easy for them to switch sides with each other, none of the cast is likable
>ZZ: heehee, shenanigans with junkyard kids trying to steal the Zeta Gundam

>>23394480
>>23394325
The Puru clones are actually a big part of the problem that I mentioned. When they introduce Puru, suddenly Glemy has been in charge of the project ALL ALONG. You're supposed to rewatch his introduction as a bumbling grunt sent to the frontlines and believe at that point he's already a hugely influential figure leading a big project to create his own army according to the later episodes.

The Char stand-in really should have been a completely new character, not a repurposed one.

>>23394566
>the AEUG pilots are morally no better than their Titans counterparts
No, did you ever watch the show?

>>23394768
Of course I did. Don't you remember the part where they locked Reccoa in that room and sexually assaulted her? AEUG is full of perverts and scum.

Ok but you need to see this Zeta football video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XN4aUwfCnuA

>>23390895
No.

>>23390857
Fuck off, Anno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7oJPiyTrPw

>>23390766
ZZ ANT would be fucking awesome if it kept the dumb comedy bits and swapped Toto with Char like the original plan for ZZ. It would also be nice to see Haman Karn with modern animation.

Unfortunately ZZ doesn't really have much going on that it couldn't be skipped over in a flash card blurb or title scroll. As much as I liked ZZ and especially Judau, these are the only story beats that really matter over its entire runtime:
>Haman Karn is killed and Neo Zeon requires a new leader
>Mineva Zabi is revealed to actually be a body double and the real Mineva Zabi is MIA
Both of which happen literally at the end of the show.
Char ends up being the new leader of Zeon in CCA and the real Mineva ends up returning in Unicorn. Copy Mineva is now the one who is MIA and we don't know what happened to her.

>>23394304
Gundam was made as a self-contained story with no intention of having sequels. iirc Sunrise basically pressured Tomino into making the sequels.

>>23395291
I agree. And it also would have ended with Judau talking with his newtype powers to all of humanity and leading to all of humanity going into space like Char wished.
I also would have liked to get an animated version of the original 52 episode script of the og Gundam. They could have just continued from just before the moment that the series changed the direction of the plot.

>>23394291

Same. I saw the hatred against ZZ as a symptom of non-Japanese Gundam fans thinking UC was more serious than Cosmic Era (the same attitude that came from the 90s UC OVAs being brought outside Japan before the original MSG was).

>>23395475
gotta sell more toys

>>23394355
Haman never got an explanation for why she was top dog in Axis, either, and the fig-leaf backstory she did get down the line is even more confusing. Like Scirocco, she's this Newtype superbeing out of nowhere who can just throw her weight around and have hundreds of soldiers obey her orders.
Glemy going from fresh meat to evil overlord in three episodes is an asspull, but it's not like Zeta didn't have a history of pulling developments out of its ass and acting like nothing contradicted it (Mouar, Reccoa, Four, Rosamia)

>>23394282
A while? 20 episodes? No nigga it takes 30 episodes before it goes full 180, the moon moon arc was insufferable.

>>23395475
>Sunrise basically pressured Tomino
He independently started drafting the scenario for a Gundam sequel while he was working on L-Gaim.

>>23395645
>He independently started drafting the scenario for a Gundam sequel while he was working on L-Gaim.

>>23395778
I don't see how your pic disproves what I said.

>>23395778
The part where the plan for a sequel was made by Bandai first and not started by Tomino independently. He started writing it after Bandai asked Sunrise for it in exchange for sponsoring L-Gaim.

>>23395016
Are you on drugs?

>>23393373
You are mixing things with ZZ where Tomino took a hands off approach and just came to the late half to supervise the scripts

>>23396004

>>23394282
>If you're binge watching you'll definitely be saying "What the fuck?" quite a few times and it just kind of interrupts the flow of UC Gundam.
Reminder that ZZ aired back to back with Z. The mood whiplash was felt just the same by the people whonwatched it back then.

On the other hand, the production team probably needed a break from Z's tragedy as well.

>>23396073
That whiplash could be avoided if Tomino would sticked with his original plan and left Ema alive as the link between the two crews. Fa was a terrible character to be on that role.

>>23396066
Nah, he's right. Tomino is extremely involved with Zeta's scripts for the first half but takes a big break from both script and storyboarding after ep31.

With ZZ from the start he seemed to leave the actual script writing to other staff and only actually got involved with scripts near the end.

>>23396105
>Tomino's original plan was to leave Emma alive

You have a source for this? As an Emmafag I was forever butthurt about just willing dying when she could been taken to a medic for attention post haste. But i concede that when Mk exploded she caught an asteroid smashing into her sides.

>>23396117
Tomino was still overseeing the scripting process, he would let them write scripts from his prepared scenario and then check to give his corrections. This caused many writers to quit the writing team, causing Endo and Suzuki to do the heavy lifting in the 2nd half.

>>23396125
https://www.gundamunofficial.com/production/gundamzz.html
>The story quickly diverges from the animated Gundam ZZ, however. In this version, pilot Emma Sheen survives into the early part of the new series. Judau is a juvenile delinquent and a member of a biker gang, and although the heroine Roux Louka appears in this outline, the little-sister characters Leina Ashta and Elpeo Ple aren't mentioned. And partway through the story, Char reappears as a member of Haman's forces, only to turn against her in the finale.
>Gundam ZZ had also been decided, but I don't think what happened to Kamille was related to that. It was only Emma who was really affected by it. It seems she was written out because she had the same voice actor as Leina Ashta, who was going to appear in ZZ. I don't know whether or not he was joking, but that's what Director Tomino said.

>>23393572
A lot of poor writing and very shoddy worldbuilding with little consideration for the big picture as things constantly got interrupted for shitty mini arcs that didn't end up mattering as they were retreads of small arcs earlier in the series that themselves didn't go anywhere.

Rosamia was just retreading Four for instance. That shit just happened a ton. But we never got firm looks at how the AEUG was being perceived or developing, or how and even if the Titans were falling apart. The Dakar speech was meant to do something but then Jamitov said he could handle it and we kept on seeing Federation officers. That was the last of that plot line.

I don't know the plot of Zeta because Zeta didn't know the plot of Zeta. Shit just happened, one ass pull after another.

>>23396148
And the two spent the whole show arguing with Endo being an idiot about having a plot at all.

>>23396069
My bad. Didn't know about that.
Though according to that he did do it because he saw it coming.

>>23396158
>It seems she was written out because she had the same voice actor as Leina Ashta, who was going to appear in ZZ
Kind of weak speculation when Tomino did L-Gaim just over a year prior with Leece and Lilith sharing the same VA.

I love zeta
and
I love ZZ

reminder that Unicorn definitively killed the ANT argument

>>23396148
>Tomino let other writers pretend to write and they got mad when their scripts were thrown out
top kek it's gundam what did you expect?

>kamiiyu
>kuwatoro tai
>kamiiyu
>kuwatoro tai
You guys get worked up over this cartoon?

>>23396148
>Tomino was still overseeing the scripting process,
That's the first 30 episodes. It's why you have someone else and then Tomino credied for the script. The first writer actually wrote the script based on Tomino's plot, then Tomino arrives and heavily changes it, thus getting the script credit too.

>>23390766
>>23395291
>>23395478
>ZZ ANT would legitimately fix it.

Tomino was directly asked about this by reporters after the third Zeta movie aired. He curtly said he has absolutely no interest in revisiting ZZ, or any of those ZZ characters. Tomino said has no interest in revisiting that era of Gundam.

It was an extremely firm answer.

>>23390755 (OP)
>Makes A New Translation to tie in Char's Counterattack
>Removes the scenes that ties in to Char's Counterattack

Not really. In fact it makes more sense.

At the end of Zeta, Axis returns to Earthsphere and helps AEUG defeat the Titans. Instead of starting a war, Axis peaceful merges with Side 3. The Axis military joins Side 3 military. Haman disappears with Mineva to raise her peacefully like a normal Mom. Axis is abandoned.

Char gives Federation a chance to fulfill their promise of helping Spacenoids, reforms to allow Spacenoids a vote in the senate, and sending more people into space to prevent the Earth from suffering more enviromental devastation. He wants the Earth to recover.

After almost 8 years, the Federation hasn't done any of the promises they gave to AEUG or Char. In fact, it's gotten worse. The Federation Elites are hogging Earth like always. The Federation creates manhunter squads to hunt down people on Earth who protest. And worst of all... the AEUG sold out and joined the Federation. Even though AEUG were supposed to be fighting AGAINST Federation domination and helping Spacenoids. Every single promise has been broken.

Char is pissed. He can't rely on his old AEUG allies like Bright or Amuro. Kamille is retired with Fa. He is alone. So Char does the one thing he can do. He uses his final trump card as Zeon Deikun's son. Char summons any Neo Zeon soldier still willing to fight. He assembles a small army and fleet using his political connections and promises to unify Zeon. He equips them with the latest gear and attempts to drop the now empty Axis on Earth. All Because the Federation are liars.

>>23398701
brb crying, bravo tomino

>>23398851
I don't understand why Char was portrayed as the bad guy during CCA. The Federation promised Spacenoid autonomy during the Gryps war, but broke their promise. Unicorn's storyline of the Zeon republic rejoining the Federation at UC100 doesn't even make sense. That original Treaty was broken during Zeta.

>>23398935
Char's feelings were hurt, Earth has fallen, billions must die. Char did nothing wrong. TED. Kick an Earthnoid baby into a trash can. Nothing ever happens. Amuro, hold my whiskey I'm doing something extremely wicked. *commits giant nothingburger* absolute fucking masterpiece and greatest movie ever made

>>23398935
>The Federation promised Spacenoid autonomy during the Gryps war, but broke their promise.

The deal was off when Haman fucked everything up and dropped a colony on them after invading with soft power. Anyone telling you ZZ doesnt matter is a retard.

>>23398954
During ZZ, The Federation cheered on Haman doing that.

And in the Zeta movies, that event never happened since the end of Zeta movies retcons ZZ out of existence.

>>23398954
What about the other Sides? The Federation just broke their promise.

>>23398965
Tomino forgot Zeta, please be understanding.

>>23398935
>I don't understand why Char was portrayed as the bad guy during CCA. The Federation promised Spacenoid autonomy during the Gryps war, but broke their promise.
I mean, the Federation in CCA was happy to give him stuff and pay him and leave him to his own devices, which is what leads to the Axis drop in the first place. It's Amuro saying all the time Char couldn't be trusted, and left alone, just to be ignored by the federation higher ups until it was too late. It doesn't happen due to the Federation trying to be overly controlling of the spacenoids.

>>23398991
Char's status and popularity got him Axis, it was the one thing he asked for and anyone would've rushed to give him that. Just that he didn't use Axis to establish a Zeon dual superpower for world peace. It's like asking why didn't Shinji wish for literally anything else in EoE. Neither of them wanted that much power.

Char is a real piece of shit honestly

>>23399146
Char pls

>>23395482
True. Only Americans hate ZZ Gundam because their tastes aren't refined enough for all the cute girls.

>>23398954
I give Haman a pass on that desu it was her time of the month

>>23399200
>>23395482
>Same. I saw the hatred against ZZ as a symptom of non-Japanese Gundam fans thinking UC was more serious than Cosmic Era

The Japanese fans literally wrote hate mail to Sunrise when ZZ was airing. They hated the tone and begged Tomino to take ZZ more seriously. Tomino literally talks about it in interviews. He was genuinely surprised at the Japanese fans response. Tomino said afterward he realized he may have went too far with the comedy, but was just trying to make people laugh.

>>23396165
>very shoddy worldbuilding with little consideration for the big picture
Sounds like skill issue, the worldbuilding isn't shoddy just because you couldn't pull the big picture out of it. Apologize to Tomino and likely also George Lucas right now.

>>23399228
I don't blame them, Zeta made me laugh harder than ZZ.

>You don't rike Gundam ZZ? Here Victory

>>23399228
Japs couldn't handle Yazan eating so Tomino had to kill him off. Tragic.

>>23396073
>On the other hand, the production team probably needed a break from Z's tragedy as well.
They might have got away with it if they'd started more 'straight' (the kind of vibe they were going for from like ep 25 to 38) and transitioned slowly into the more farcical stuff rather than going straight into the deep end

>>23399245
They got away with it. It's Gundam after all.

>>23399254
Evidently not, as they were met with immediate fan backlash and quickly started to course correct to something more serious

>>23399265
Plebs seetheing throughout 25 episodes of anime janai is a W for Gundam

>>23399265
gundam has this issue in all their their series where the first half has no relevance to the 2nd half because it goes straight off the deep end. zz was just so apparent because zeta has essentially no conclusion to Kamille's arc until halfway into zz. so you went from kamille mind break to goofy shenanigans.
I'm not surprised they got hate mail

>>23396073
Zeta Gundam had an actual ending. Details of the aftermath didn't matter and Bright needed additional children to get into his flying coffins, such is the nature of a 2-in-1 standalone direct sequel. It made sense for the narrative and people forget UC already had zany antics all along

>>23399301
puru cola

>>23399317
>Zeta Gundam had an actual ending.
No it fucking doesn't, it ends on 'we beat the first bad guys, but oh fuck now these other bad guys are breathing down our necks!'
>standalone direct sequel
You might be retarded

>>23399302
>>23399322
The worldbuilding and character arcs in the first halves of 0079, Zeta and ZZ were relevant and sets up the shitstorm in the second half, usually with lots of rewatch value. What happened to Kamille and Char was tragic yes but we know they're alive and everything else in the narrative was resolved because they died and it still ends with newtypes changing nothing in the political sphere, as Kamille noted, just as with the ending of any Gundam.

>>23399342
>newtypes changing nothing in the political sphere, as Kamille noted
The cynical ending of that one late episode as we see a damaged Psyco Gundam mk II floating in space in the background and Char looking destroyed as he listens to Kamille talk about newtypes just being efficient killers was cool.

>>23398701
peak writing

>>23399190

>>23390766
Weren't the events of ZZ kick-started by Judau encountering Vegetamille Bidan when the AEUG came to side 1 with him?

>>23399974
>>23399190
so he's not down with the clown?

>>23399421
>don't worry about it kid
>I'm not, otherwise I couldn't live with myself
then Char realizes his boy is already grown up

>>23399146
Amuro get off the internet

>>23390813
Never seen anyone recommend that ever

>>23399146
The one thing Amuro and Char can agree with.

You can actually pinpoint the second his heart rips in half

>>23399200
Ellie and Leina ooooooooh.
Judau had primo girls already, and yet he still managed to upgrade from 9s to 10s with Roux and Haman.

>>23400275
Blex death?
Would Quattro have become a Char if Blex never died?

>>23393373
he spent years working on CCa and it came out that shit? damn.

>>23400611
Blex not dying wouldn't have put pressure on Quattro for the Dakar Speech. Then again, the Dakar speech wouldn't have been effective. So, there's a trade-off

>>23400611
lol char doesn't give a shit about fucking blex or zeon or earf. It's after >>23400138 char doesn't know what he wants, he's thinking about why he even brought the kid into the mess to begin with, and it goes back to lalah (of course), newtypes, revenge against zabis and finally his dad. probably his mom too because hey it's char