Thread 23400313

Personally, for me, here's how I would fix some of the glaring problems.


> Maintain the focus on Shinn and keep Athrun as a deutrognist

>Remove or minimize the screen time of legacy characters of seed. Main cast suffered for this.

>Make Shinn fully commit to being a villainous character and go through an Anakin Skywalker route where he uses his trauma to inflict on innocents. He would've been the perfect contrast with Kira.

> Should've made Stella, Sting, and Auel as the main antagonists instead of Djibral. Dude was a waste of screen time and just boring.

>Gilbert and Rey honestly needed more personality. Cool and collecting characters are good but both of these guys came off as stiff wood until the end of the series.

> Should've never brought back Kira so early. Dude unironically is one of those kinds of characters that are just too strong to keep around and could end the show if he wanted, and pivot attention away from Shinn.

>Story itself didn't do much and copied a little too many story beats from Seed.

I wouldn't change anything, it's already quite good. If more episodes were added, I'd like the EA perspective explored more.

>>23400313 (OP)
Luna gives me stiff wood.

>>23400313 (OP)
Adapt the manga

Durandal wins. That's it. That's all I'd change.
Now something actually matters for once in CE and the stakes are different going forward.

>>23400813
The Destiny plan can’t work

Lunamaria Hawk Tuah

Shinn kills Kira and and Athrun and then has a foursome with Luna, Cagalli and Lacus

>>23400313 (OP)
Just take Zeta but fix some things. Also, make Athrun COMMIT to being Shinn's mentor.

>>23401032
Athrun treated shinn like a goddamn disappointed father.

>>23400813
Having the antagonist win can make any show interesting when done correctly.

>>23400313 (OP)
You gotta animate the Explodium.

>>23400313 (OP)
Don't bring Kira back until Berlin

>>23400313 (OP)
Have Kira knock some sense into Shinn when Stella gets killed.

>>23401019
Making gundam seed have a whole new meaning.

>>23400313 (OP)
Give more tits and ass. It is a vital part of getting the audience sympathetic for the Clyne Faction. Blue Cosmos wants to kill this ass. Zala Faction want to hog it to themselves. Durandal's Destiny plan tries planning your dick away from this. Only the Clyne Faction preaches breeding with Naturals AKA the audience.

>>23400316
>I'd like the EA perspective explored more.

Not a bad idea desu

>>23402850
RAISE YOUR FLAGGGGGGGGG

>>23403194
Not gonna lie that would've been a lot more satisfying then athrun vs shinn

>>23400313 (OP)
Get rid of the Lacus assassination attempt entirely
First 30 episodes cut out almost all the Archangel crew shit as a result
More focus on Athrun and Shinn's relationship with Athrun still being a shit mentor but opening up to Shinn more about the first war and his past
Develop Rey more from early on instead of having him only start being a character after episode 34
ZAFT fights the Destroy at Berlin but are unable to stop it, Kira seeing the devastation decides that he needs to fight again to stop the fighting. Shinn finds out that Stella is the pilot but is unable to stop her due to Neo and Sting interfering
In the second fight, Shinn manages to temporarily pacify Stella after Neo is shot down by the Freedom (Archangel shows up first to fight the Destroy just like in the original airing) but Kira kills her thinking that she's still a threat due to the previous massacre
Shinn vs Kira plays out the same as in the original airing
Disillusioned with ZAFT after Kira has been shot down, Athrun finds out about the Destiny plan + the fact that Durandal's faction is actually the ones who leaked the Armory One Gundam data to LOGOS in the first place and contacts Archangel about it leading him to be branded as a traitor, he defects in the Saviour instead of the Gouf
Shinn can't bring himself to shoot down Athrun, Rey does it instead
Afterwards Rey guilt trips the fuck out of Shinn telling him that if he really wants to end war he needs to get his shit together and listen to the Chairman from now on and never doubt him
At Orb have Athrun almost get through to Shinn, but after finding out that Mu/Neo is now with Archangel he becomes more convinced than ever that they actually are advancing LOGOS' agenda and reaffirming his anger towards them
Rest of the series plays out the same but add a final convo for Rey and Shinn before Messiah crashes

>>23406012
Holy cow someone actually gave a serious response to this thread finally.

>Kira kills her thinking that she's still a threat due to the previous massacre.

Not sure about this though. This just makes kira look bad and would just have the same results

>>23406012
>Develop Rey more from early on instead of having him only start being a character after episode 34

Also, thank god I ain't alone on this. Rey Has to be the most boring char clone in the gundam series.

>>23406012
>Only starts being a character after episode 34
I wouldn't go that far. He started getting interesting the second he helped Shinn get Stella off the Minerva.

>>23406056
So like 4 episodes before 34 then?

>>23406034
I don't mean him killing her in cold blood, but more like the Destroy moves in a way that Kira thinks is an attack and so he decides not to take the chance since the Destroy has a proven massacre track record

>>23406012
Disagree with some points

Mu needs to stay dead. Neo should be a clone or something else. Just not the original Mu.

They also need to explore the relationship more between Neo and Rey, and why they are linked with Newtype waves.

The Extended pilots need to be a serious threat for most of show. Not just be training dummies for Shinn to practice against and always win.

Neo should also be much a bigger threat. He should be better than the Extended pilots he leads. Not just be some chump Ace pilot that Kira could shoot down with barely any effort. It annoys me that the best an "evil" (without holding back) Mu could do with his skills...was just slightly annoy Kira before getting shot down 7 seconds later.

>ZAFT fights the Destroy at Berlin but are unable to stop it

I agree with this Destroy Gundam went down too easy in the original show. It should be a BOSS and be near unstoppable. Seeing a single one should make an entire fleet fearful.

>Shinn vs Kira plays out the same as in the original airing

Im not even sure the whole Shinn VS Kira thing needs to happen. Their paths don't really need to cross. However if the Director insists on making it happen then... I think the movie did a much better job of showing how to shoot down Freedom.

We could have a cool scene where Shinn leads a bunch of Zaft troops into battle (PIC RELATED). They shoot Freedom from all sides to keep him boxed in. Then Shinn uses Impulse to grab onto Freedom mid-air in a bear hug. Shinn detaches with with a core fighter, and orders the troops to attack Freedom while it's locked in a hug. Freedom's wing is damaged and is forced to land. Not that removes Freedom's speed advantage. Then take Freedom out at Close Range melee since Freedom is not a close range suit.


>Athrun's betrayal

Honestly I'm not even sure this needs to happen. You could genuinely have Athrun be a good mentor to Shinn. But maybe Athrun disagrees with Durandal's Destiny plan and is shot down in Saviour.

>>23406364
>Mu needs to stay dead
Absolutely, whole point of seed was to teach kira that despite his good intentions he can't save everyone. And mu literally got his assed evaporated and the show wants to treat it like he was recovered from a car crash accident.

This scene was removed from the HD remaster. Guess character popularity is more important then story.

>>23406403
Forgot the image

>>23406403
I don't remember kira really shedding any tears over not being there to save mwu so I don't think it was an effective lesson, and if anything kira didn't bother to be more protective with mwu the second time around except mwu survived since he had upgrades

I guess he did learn to shoot out the positron cannons before they can fire, though

>>23406426
Oh shit you are right that was murrue

>>23406403
>Guess character popularity is more important then story.
But of course

>>23406426
Yeah Kira never reacted to Mwu's death. The closest is getting a bad feeling and doubling back to the AA where he fights Rau. In fact he probably didn't even find out he died until after the battle. Mu is just another face in his death flashback montage by the time it ever comes up with him.

>>23406439
It wasn't even popularity. Andy wasn't THAT popular. It was just Fukuda realizing the TSA needed more older characters to make it seem less like a bunch of teens fighting the the whole world and Andy was already an established character who showed sympathies to their cause and his death was just ambiguous enough to reveal he survived.

>>23406439
At very least they could've brought back aisha. Just making this guys return look like blatant plot armor. (Well....technically it is.)

Not much. I'd simply regress the age of the Asuka siblings in the opening flashback from CE 71 by two years. There, have the time skip be four years so that while you still have a teenage Shinn Asuka still grieving for his dead parents and younger sister Mayu, the returning cast from SEED can still show up and while that means the likes of Kira, Lacus, Athrun, and Cagalli are 20, they can still look like teenagers because 20 isn't that old to look old. Though this would require doing omitting Rey being in the flashbacks with Durandal and Rau.

>>23406364
>My needs to stay dead
Why?

I'm mostly alright with the way that Destiny turned out. Still, I think there's room for some fun what-ifs.
>Luna goes to Shinn with the information she learned from Athrun
Lay some groundwork for the relationship with Shinn and Luna, focus Shinn on trying to learn more about Athrun's past and building a bridge for some empathy following his loss against the Freedom, and drum up some intrigue on what ZAFT's endgame. He could also try getting through to Kira during the second battle of Orb instead of immediately going on a rampage.
>Sting and Auel survive (longer)
Give Mu something to do after Berlin.
>Mu/Neo
Some more inner conflict on Mu's part about the actions he felt he had to take as Neo would be nice. Have him reach out to Sting and Auel to make up for how he couldn't save Stella. Then they die against Shinn and Rey.
>More journalist Miriallia
If Destiny wants to cover themes of media control, wouldn't a journalist like Miri be great? She can prod at the decisions Durandal's making and (at Lacus's request) start digging more into ZAFT herself. You can add Dearka in as a partner in crime, maybe even give some cores over with Shinn and Luna who are trying to figure out what's going on themselves.
>Freedom vs Impulse
Instead of spamming silhouettes solely to get unique openings, Shinn and the Minerva focus on downing Kira and burying him under the snow. Shinn gets a bit too aggressive at one point and gives Kira his opportunity to escape at the cost of his mobile suit.
>The final battle
Shinn draws against Athrun. Wakes up a bit earlier and joins in on the standoff. Rey can be there for Shinn to talk some sense into.
>Bonus
Rey survives.

>>23407046
>Rey survives

Honestly I agree. Dude finally has a personality at the last few episodes and the show kills him off immediately.

Is it not possible to end Seed Destiny in a way where Durandal lives, or at the very least the Destiny plan in semi-implemented? Maybe Zaft and part of Earth breaks away to do it?

I dislike how modern Gundam shows always have to wrap things up by the final episode.

The one thing I love about Tomino UC Gundam is that we never get all our questions answered by the final episode. Some things are left hanging for the viewer to imagine. In the original MSG 0079, we don't know what happens to Zeon after the final battle. We don't know what happens to the White Base crew after they abandon ship. The viewer is left to imagine things.

In Zeta, we don't know what happens to the Federation after the final battle. We don't know what happens to the AEUG remnants as they fly away back presumably to their home base. We don't know what happens to the Titans, their remnants, or their other bases.

Same thing with ZZ and CCA with Neo Zeon remnants. Tomino doesn't answer all our questions and leaves the viewer wanting more.

Seed Destiny could learn from that. As well as other gundam shows.

>>23407229
I kind of like that. Having endings up to interpretation or bittersweet are great way to end a show or open up more shows.

>>23407253
>>23407229
It feels like even in a 80s Tomino show Durandal would still be killed, it's just he wouldn't be the one single character moving his faction (as in the Zaft's Destiny Plan, not Zaft in general) and its overall fate could be left unclear.

>>23406364
I disagree with the movie showing how to shoot down Kira better. He gets shot down in that cause A) The enemy literally have "Fuck you beams" armour and he's running a battery powered suit. Being in the actual freedom and that armour not existing yet means that the movie way just doesnt exist. Hell, he can totally fight in melee with actual freedom, the suits bonkers.

>>23406034
Have Stella reach out to Shinn unconciously with the suit. In reality its her coming around, From Afar it looks like she's trying to grab and crush him. Either that or have her scream and fire a beam into the air whilst crying.

Personally i'd keep the archangel crew stuff but agree about nixing the assassination attempt. If you have to keep it, make it WAY more ambigious on if it was LOGOS or Durandel ordering it, play into the durandal manipulation angle by still having them show up to interfere but its not incredibly obvious that Durandals full of shit.

>>23406988
>And mu literally got his assed evaporated and the show wants to treat it like he was recovered from a car crash accident.

I know kira and andy surviving was bs but this man dead ass got his "death" rewritten on the hd remasters for seed. Derailing your story all because the character was popular is awful writing.

>>23407281
If Tomino made Seed Destiny, then it would have been much darker since Tomino has repeatedly said war is not fun.

Tomino would have killed some of the main cast to remind the viewer that war isn't entertainment. So Lunamaria would probably die. Maybe even Meyrin.

Logos would have played a much larger role. Probably having more bases across Earth and Space.

Athrun would pilot Saviour for a lot longer (just like Hyaku Shiki). His much higher skill level would keep the suit viable.

Kira wouldn't get Freedom Gundam again. He would get something more standard like a custom Murasame OR Akatsuki. Tomino likes to flip things on their head to change expectations. It's why Amuro piloted a Zeon looking suit (Dijeh) while Char piloted a Gundam looking suit in Zeta (Hyaku Shiki).

Tomino would probably add another large faction to keep it interesting and dynamic.

1. Durandal led Zaft.

2. Logos led by Neo and the Extended.

3. Maybe introduce some other colony faction that isn't related to Zaft. Aren't there colonies in Seed that aren't aligned with Zaft?


Im not sure how.... but Tomino always balances things out. So if Kira and Athrun MUST get Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice, then Tomino would come up with a 3rd faction and give them better suits / better mobile armors to compete. Tomino makes sure every side suffers losses.

>>23407391
>Kira wouldn't get Freedom Gundam again. He would get something more standard like a custom Murasame OR Akatsuki. Tomino likes to flip things on their head to change expectations. It's why Amuro piloted a Zeon looking suit (Dijeh) while Char piloted a Gundam looking suit in Zeta (Hyaku Shiki).

The problem with Seed Destiny is the overwhelming focus on Gundams. Tomino wouldn't do that. He would give non-gundams more focus. So maybe Kira gets a Dom Trooper suit, or a custom Zaku. Kira would get something that is the least Gubdam looking suit possible since Tomino loves to invert tropes.

>>23407359
>Derailing your story
SEED's or Destiny's? Because I get what you're going with for Destiny a bit but I'm lost with SEED itself.

>>23407406
>The problem with Seed Destiny is the overwhelming focus on Gundams
Did you forget ZZ Gundam had a literal Gundam team

>>23407438
Destiny. There was no reason for mu to survive that, he ain't a dragonball character.

>>23407441
You missed the point. The difference between Destiny and ZZ is that there were non-gundams enemies that could fight and destroy ZZ Gundam.

In Destiny, unless you pilot your own Gundam, then you can't defeat the main Gundams.

>>23407438
Speaking of derailing story i heard that Heine had to be killed off cause the singer voiced him? Guess it must've been expensive.

>>23407448
Due to scheduling issues The singer couldn't commit to being a voice actor for the whole show. Just a few episodes. So the writers killed his character hoping to make best use of the singers limited time. However I would have preferred Heine to live longer.

>>23407453
Well that make so much so sense. It explains how forced it looked for athrun to pin the blame on kira.

>>23407442
Ah, I see. In that case...eh. It's not like he took up too much screentime, and it's not like there wasn't (unused) story potential in him returning. In any case, I just really hate the idea of Neo being a clone.

>>23407466
Yea thats true. Dont want a pull a spiderman clone saga. That's a can of worms that should never be open.

>>23407466
>>23407478
What should be done instead is have Neo be a LOT more disfigured. Either he's being held together by fucking duct tape, his brains been stuck in another body or somehow give him robotic limbs. The fact all he really got was a bit of a fucked face is really pushing it, especially with Wattfeld existing.