Thread 23422442

Is there a setting where the Re-Gz wouldn't suck, or is it just cursed no matter what?

The ReGZ is good though, Amuro almost kills Gyunei's Jagd Doga with it before Char bails him out and then Amuro is able to fend them off fighting both at the same time. Even Chan does pretty good in it until Hathaway teamkills her.

>>23422442 (OP)
Just about anything would be hard pressed to do much of anything against the Sazabi.

The Re-GZ is better than a grunt, but still not Gundam-tier. Also it ended up in a lot of shitty situations that worked against it as a mobile suit.

>>23422442 (OP)
>Refined Zeta Gundam
>it's worse than Zeta Gundam in every way possible
1- What was the point?
2- Why is it not ReZZ?

>>23422442 (OP)
It's the best MS in CCA that isn't on the movie poster.

>>23422442 (OP)
Amuro would not have used it if it sucked.

What is with this board and users constantly wanting to invent their own version of events?

>>23422526
>2- Why is it not ReZZ?
The ZZ was stupidly expensive, bulky, and overly complex. The closest it came to that was the MP ZZ, and the ReZEL Type C

>>23422447
I often feel like people have been so brain rotted by gundam series were the main MS just makes everything explode by standing near them and glaring that they fail to understand that a lot of the times machines and vehicles aren't goddamn super heroes. It's the same shit you seen in 0080 about the Alex v Zaku fight where they ignore not only the context surrounding the fight but the actual end result where the zaku pilot was turned into hamburger.

>>23422442 (OP)
I mean for a proof-of-concept work-in-progress suit that was dragged out of AE labs and thrown into the middle of a war it’s not that bad. I think it would actually be a good in-atmosphere mobile suit if its BWS can be redocked

>>23422526
Refined doesn't mean better. It means "distilled". As in all frivolous things have been removed except the most important core functions.

And even If Amuro had a true Zeta Gundam, he wouldn't do any better. If both pilots are equal, than a Zeta Gundam is not beating the Sazabi. If both pilots are equal, then A Zeta Gundam isn't beating a Jagd Doga either.

CCA era suits completely outclass Zeta era suits. As seen when Char humiliated Amuro when he was using the Custom Dijeh.

>>23422553
Honestly I just think they shouldn't have removed the inbuilt transformation in the first place. I get it was probably cost cutting for mass production purposes but it seems like it never went into much production. Although overall I feel the Re-Gz was ultimately a bridge between two eras of MS design, it's the peak of Gryps War design ideas while also incorporating new ideas from CCA suits. It's kinda like the early jet fighters with straight wings or Cold War battle rifles.
>>23422559
Honestly it makes me wonder how the Custom Dijeh or Re-Gz would hold up against Zeta era suits.

>>23422442 (OP)
It is a cursed machine. I call it the Federation's Space Coffin because for all of its specs, it radiates a cursed aura that brings its pilots, even after switching to a different mobile suit, to a grim and fearful death. It killed Kayra, Chan, and Amuro, in that order.

People seem to misunderstanding something major here.

The Re-GZ isn't a "downgraded Zeta Gundam".

The Re-GZ is an UPGRADED Jegan with some Zeta parts attached for extra performances.

Its why the Re-GZ shares the majority parts with the Jegan. To keep costs lower and maintenance easier. Same reason why the Nu Gundam shares parts with the Jegan as well. To keep costs lower and repairs easier. The Federation demanded it to keep costs down.

After 0083, Zeta, and ZZ...the Federation was on the verge of financial collapse. They were broke. So when they were discussing the next gen mass production suit for the military, they didn't want something crazy like the Doven Wolf or exotic looking like the Barzam. They didn't want any transforming suits like the Gaza series either which raises the costs. It was decided that the next Gen suit be simple and reliable and cheap. And any custom ace suits would share parts with the Jegan as much as possible.

>>23422559
I mean, he could do much better if he activated the Biosensor, but they could just have thrown that into the ReGZ too. I don't get why it wasn't installed when they knew it was going to Amuro.

>>23422526
>Why is it not ReZZ?
How would that work? Make it entirely in one piece and not three parts?

>>23422442 (OP)
I would have loved to see it in action in Unicorn

>>23422604
>exotic looking like the Barzam
paradoxically the Barzam shares an incredibly high amount of parts with common suits at the time of its roll out like the GMII and I guess theoretically the GMIII. Despite looking super goofy and having very high performance for a grunt, the Barzam sorta IS the ms the federation was looking for. If you compare the two, the Jegan does look a bit like a Barzam if you squint and color them the same, so obviously some of the design elements went into the Jegan. The only thing stopping the Barzam from being adopted more was the fact it was a titans machine

>>23422442 (OP)
ReGZ hate seems to be the only opinion /m/ shares with normalfags into mecha.

>>23422526
It was supposed to cut down on costs and ease of maintenance. The problem is that it did it in the stupidest way possible of making it purge the BWS and having to either retrieve it or get another new unit after every battle. I think this downside of not being able to get it right works in a vacuum, but irl showing that the Zeta Plus came beforehand makes it look silly. Then they release Re-GZID, which makes the Re-GZ look even worse.

>>23422665
Basically, they were afraid of both Amuro and Londo Bell leading an insurrection and upstaging them like the Titans did. If I recall in the novels, Amuro requested the Zeta Gundam but they stonewalled him and said no. They were so afraid, that from the same animation that >>23422559 posted, Londo Bell is using fucking GM IIs. MS that were considered antiques during the first episode of Zeta.

Which one would you considered Re-GD (Refined Gundam Delta), Hyaku Shiki or Delta Plus?

>>23422567
>Honestly it makes me wonder how the Custom Dijeh or Re-Gz would hold up against Zeta era suits.

Re-GZ may not look as flashy or fancy as Zeta Gundam, but Re-GZ would slaughter everything if used during the Gryps war. If both pilots were equal, It would even kill the Zeta Gundam.

Compared to the Zeta Gundam, the Re-GZ is Taller, Weighs less, has a bigger Generator (more powerful beams/faster recharge rate), better top speed, more Trust, more Verniers, better Maximum Acceleration, and a better Sensor Radius. Basically every single technical category is better on the Regz. Which makes sense since the Regz is 6 years newer than the original Zeta. The Regz would fly around and kill everything during Gryps, and would turn the tide of any battle during Gryps.

Remember that the biggest improvement of CCA era suits isn't flashy gimmicks like putting 20 beam weapons on the body of the suit like Psycho Gundam or Doven Wolf, or using 5 different arms like The O or Zaku III. Nothing fancy like that. Nope. The biggest improvement to CCA era suits is just raw performance like top speed, acceleration, and sensor range. The improvement is not flashy, but it's very lethal. It's why anything made during Zeta/ZZ era would struggle against CCA era suits. They just can't keep up in terms of basic raw performance.

>>23422665
Pretty sure that the bio sensor is a retcon and the federation would never let Amuro use one anyway.

MG manual says it had comparable performance to the Zeta.
>muh transf-
Useless unless you're diving from space to Earth which happens like once in Zeta.

>>23422814
>The problem is that it did it in the stupidest way possible of making it purge the BWS and having to either retrieve it or get another new unit after every battle.

I believe this was retconned away. The BWS is now capable of independent operation and can follow the Re-GZ around, or return to the ship on its own. Similar to a Dodai or a Base Jabber.

>>23422534
>What is with this board and users constantly wanting to invent their own version of events?
This is a systemic problem across all fandoms, and I could not pinpoint one exact reason. Headcanon, or things having to be 'canon' at all, is a fairly recent problem post-turn of the millennium. I could say it comes from an excess of fiction, possibly as a substitute for religious lore in a largely non-theistic society, but that is just an assumption I am making.

>>23423151
Also, it'd be incorrect to call it a problem, more like a phenomenon.

>>23423151
It's not making up events. It's a matter of perspective.

Some think the Regz was garbage and a disappointment.

Others think the Regz was impressive for lasting so long against the Jagd Doga and Sazabi.

The issue is further muddied by the arguments of Amuro VS Char. Who is the better pilot, qnd whether Char was holding back or not.

>>23423231
The real sensible option is to just enjoy the spectacle of what's on screen instead of getting into a masturbatory fantasy of how you would have done things differently.

>>23422604
>>23422752
One of the old barzam info manuals or something suggested that the Barzam was only slightly more expensive than the GM II despite it being the best mass production MS of the gryps war.

>>23422829
Delta Plus, Hyaku Shiki is a fuck it, that'll do bodge job because AEUG needed more ace suits and they had half a gundam lying in the workshop.

>>23423386
With this we can continue Barzam production into the future (and back to the past).

>>23423471
Okay. Good job. You had me going for like 2 minutes. Some of these were well done. I thought I was misremembering Zeta and ZZ and trying to remember the scenes I thought I had forgotten.

>>23423074
It isn't named in the series, but Emma outright tells Kamille the Zeta Gundam is a machine can absorb will and turn it into power.

>>23423564
This jpeg is like 22 years old.

>>23422814
I feel that half the problem comes from the fact that the original objective was just surpassed by time. Making a cheaper, mass-produced Zeta sounds great on paper, but when you take 5-6 years to do it, eventually MS technology has advanced to the point where even the original Zeta is hopelessly outmatched by regular grunts. So you may as well just stick to making stronger regular grunts instead, like the Jesta.

>>23423146
This would have made so much more sense, but in the setting where remote weapons can't exist without Newtype hax, it simply wouldn't work. It would also add an additional expense (guidance and operating software for the BWS) that flies completely in the face of the original mandate to make a cheaper Zeta.

>>23423584
It gets named in the novels that Tomino was literally writing alongside the show. No one knows why it got glossed over like it did in the series. Maybe he thought audiences would remember the Bio relation system from L-Gaim that ended a week or two prior.

>>23423609
>This would have made so much more sense, but in the setting where remote weapons can't exist without Newtype hax, it simply wouldn't work. It would also add an additional expense (guidance and operating software for the BWS) that flies completely in the face of the original mandate to make a cheaper Zeta.

Anon what are you talking about? Base Jabber can fly around unmanned. Been that way since Zeta.

>>23423146
"リ・ガズィはBWSとの連動が前提とされるため、ある程度の遠隔誘導や最低限のドッキングコントロールが可能な相互通信システムを備えていたが、実際にはBWSを排除した後、戦闘中に再装着する事例はほとんど無かったと言われている。" Huh, so it does. From the movie, it also seemed to have thrusters when being jettisoned, but I assumed they always had to go grab it themselves because it was never shown flying back to the Ra Cailum.

>>23423609
They finally get around to it with the ReZEL, which uses the more simplified Methuss Frame. Comparatively, it didn't do too bad against the Sleeves grunts, and like uses the same parts as the Jegan D-Type for ease of maintenance. But yeah, even that started to be phased out because of smaller MS gradually being able to have limited flight capabilities.

>>23423651
They wanted something that could do Anti-Ship combat, but you are right that the Base Jabber is pretty much uncontested as the cheapest option possible. I think the anon was also talking about the cost of implementing that guidance which...they kind of didn't do an amazing job from the description above, probably because it was likely to be shot down during combat and jettisoned so the Re-GZ inside didn't get heavily damaged alongside it.

>>23423690
Not like recent material gave a shit. Engage literally has the BWS just floating like a dead fish when Amuro goes to retrieve the Giessen Doga.

>>23422814
The re-gz is can fly around on its own and redock during combat. It doesn't need a ship. I think some older databooks talk about it. It's probably a hard maneuver to pull off during intense combat though. Amuro doesn't seem to like doing it.

>>23422559
>As seen when Char humiliated Amuro when he was using the Custom Dijeh
when did this happen? U.C Engage?

>>23423807
>>23423690
>>23423719
I'm almost certain the BWS being capable of moving around is probably a recent retcon, because for years it's been a stated thing that the BWS was basically jettisoned and useless once done. It can be done because ZZ, Bawoo, and Base Jabber following and supporting each other is already a thing established in the lore, but it's a thing that the writers for CCA overlooked. If it was capable of that in the first place, it'd totally be a thing for Amuro to do in battle, ejecting the BWS but then springing it on someone as a trump card. After all, this is the story where Amuro discarded the fin funnels during Kayra's hostage situation and noticed that Gyunei ignored them only to get surprised. Then later in another fight, Amuro intentionally pulls off some mind-fuckery where he drops some gear in front of Gyunei to force him to divert his attention for a moment, giving Amuro a chance to land a lethal shot on Gyunei.

On the other hand, It's possible that the BWS is passive unless it specifically receives a signal (laser comm or a visual light signal) that tells it to "go home" or something. If you had to eject the BWS, maybe you can't combine with it again easily, but you could still use it as a sled or booster later. You also don't want to give away the direction of your mothership to enemies, if it was a thing that base jabbers and other drone-type homing did all the time automatically then imagine exploiting that knowledge by capturing a base jabber, setting a bomb on it, and then releasing it to take the bomb home, or even just using the base jabber as a direction finder for the enemy fleet and then firing off a volley of missiles or beams in that general direction

>>23424151
In both appearances, the BWS pack was shot repeatedly and damaged by the enemies. So we never got to see it move automatically.

This is kind of a weird questions but I'm watching CCA and noticed the Rewoola (Char's flagship) doesn't use catapults. Is there a reason why not? The Sazabi just launches with its own thrusters. No catapult.

>>23424179
The Rewloola has hangar doors that open to a "runway" with a seam line down the middle that looks like it could be a catapult track on both the top and bottom sides of the ship's front. The end of the "runway" even ramps upward. The Sazabi itself doesn't use a catapult because it's really fucking big and probably doesn't fit on the catapult's feet locks.

Oddly the Nu Gundam has the opposite issue, it doesn't have a problem using the Ra Cailum's catapult, but its height mean it has to crouch walk through the Ra Cailum's hangar door, and the fin funnels have to be brought out separately and attached to the Nu outside of the ship since they sure as fuck don't fit while inside the hangar.

>>23424112
Yep, he uses the Sazabi that has a second seat (I assume for testing), and he runs circles on Amuro.

>>23424151
Yeah, I don't believe for a moment the BWS works like a base jabber, Amuro would frequently sacrifice gear in fights if it gave him an edge, and you can bet your ass he'd either set it up to fire or ram it into an enemy for an opening.

>>23422559
>>23424112
>>23424250
Man, UC Engage is slop of the lowest quality

>>23422814
>Basically, they were afraid of both Amuro and Londo Bell leading an insurrection and upstaging them like the Titans did
This shit is something I didn't understand when watching CCA. Everyone knew Char's plan was to drop Axis on Earth and kill everyone, right? How didn't all of Earth forces unite against him? How it is only Londo Bell the ones fighting them?

>>23422604
>After 0083, Zeta, and ZZ...the Federation was on the verge of financial collapse.
H E A D C A N O N
E
A
D
C
A
N
O
N

>>23423032
>Re-GZ may not look as flashy or fancy as Zeta Gundam, but Re-GZ would slaughter everything if used during the Gryps war.
The fact Amuro chose to use it in CCA, and the fact that a Re-GZ is seen in a hanger in Gundam Unicorn, presumably combat ready among Unicorn era MS, would back up your statement.

>>23424489
Better contained inside of a gacha instead of spilling on anime series like what happened with Unicorn

What's wrong with the Re-Gz unironically? Having a discardable part for transformation is a bit depressing, but it showed up too briefly for me to evaluate it, and I think putting Amuro in literally anything would give it a decent performance, e.g. the Gundam was a bit outdated by the time it was fighting the Zeong.

>>23424494
After the AEUG won Gryps, the federation pushed most of humanity into space. Rather roughshod. Which is why colonies like Sweetwater came to be, they just tossed parts together to quickly ship people into space. So space is more influential than Earth.

>>23423807
>>23424151
Yeah, I also remember reading often back then that the BWS was pretty much useless, so it seems that the new addition was to make the BWS seem good on paper, but bad in practice since it typically got damaged and couldn't be easily recovered. Wasn't aware it was a manuever that could be done if it's true that it was in older databooks, we can chalk it up to Amuro not liking transformable units as much as his old RX-78-2.

>>23424494
The EF grew complacent and more corrupt. We see this during ZZ when Haman is going to colony drop Dublin and the EF officials there don't really give a shit and see it as population control. They really thought that giving Char Axis was a good idea, and were shocked that he broke the treaty after all.

>>23424497
I mean we see the EF become progessively more poor and less willing to do anything over time. On top of the downscaling of MS and using old stuff like the Jegans for 30 years, the Heavygun for 10-20, the EF didn't even fight against the Zanscare Empire. It was so bad that if someone wanted to fight them, officers and soldiers were encouraged to take PTO and join the League Militaire instead. It took Zanscare flattening the Earth that they finally got up to offer a treaty, and negotiations behind the scenes from Uso's dad to really get them to fight in earnest.

>>23424500
I was always a fan of the pop out prongs of the re-gz's beam saber

>>23424497
M A N G A
A
N
G
A

>>23422442 (OP)
They should have given Amuro the Gundam EX-S.

There wouldn't be any need for the Nu Gundam.

>>23424774
There is barely any redeable gundam manga. Treating them as canon is just being full retarded.

>>23424893
He got you on a technicality. Manga may be looked down upon by some fans, but it still Gundam. That's how we got stuff like the Gundam Thunderbolt anime. Next time you use the Headcanon meme, at least make sure it's not mentioned in the supplementary material. Otherwise you just embarrass yourself.

>>23423032
> If both pilots were equal, It would even kill the Zeta Gundam
Now let’s not get too hasty there

>>23424933
Sorry I don't care what is wrote in the slop you proudly consume.

>>23424517
As a basic bitch ms, it's fine. It's more the fact that the transformation mechanism is one way and the fact that it can't use the MA ship cannon in ms mode for additional combat options.

>>23424788
Amuro would have gotten in long arguments with A.L.I.C.E. over who is piloting, would have made it very difficult.

>>23424489
It's slop because Char bested Amuro in an MS that completely outclasses the Dijeh...?

>>23425287
Damn straight

Fucker should have pulled it off in the oldest, shittiest MS he could get

>>23423032
>more Trust
It does have more trust... I love it...

>>23425097
I thought ALICE couldn't speak?

>>23422442 (OP)
I like Regz because it's simple looking and cool. I don't care what anyone says.

>>23425453
Maybe less like a conventional argument, more like

>incoming attack
>ALICE calculates that even a peak human pilot cannot react to it in time, so it does its thing and "nudges" the controls in a certain way
>But Amuro's a newtype and has already sensed the enemy intent and is also already reacting, albeit differently

Over time, this causes conflict, and neither the person nor the AI know what's going on. ALICE is being presented with a supernatural situation that conventional logic cannot answer: How can a human being consistently appear to be reacting to events so quickly, or in some cases things that haven't even appeared on sensors yet (negative reaction time)?

Meanwhile, Amuro's facing a conundrum of his own, the S Gundam is a superb machine, but at times it feels like the machine is moving counter to his expectations. Being a mechanical tinkerer, Amuro has already disassembled the cockpit completely, patched in brand new replacement parts, and found no flaw in the control system. His newtype abilities can't detect ALICE which is a completely digital construct and possesses no emotions or biological presence for him to feel. Also the S Gundam has no psycommu for the pilot to mind-meld with ALICE anyway.

>>23425762
It’d probably be even more frustrating than when the RX-78’s movements couldn’t keep up with his reaction speed, the EX-S would actively be fighting against him because of ALICE’s programming not accounting for Newtypes.

>>23422665
>>23423074
Yeah assuming the feds even knew how it worked (I half wonder if it was less an intentional piece of tech and more a result of Kamille's doodling as he absentmindedly invented psychically resonant circuits while he combined the Delta/Zeta notes with his father's Movable frame stuff) they wouldn't bother replicating it.

>>23422442 (OP)
For story purposes, The Re-GZ is supposed to demonstrate that designs from the Gryps era aren't the best anymore. Zeta Gundam may have been able to crush Titan's suit but that was 6 years ago. Even with upgrades to Re-GZ, time has moved in.

The Re-GZ has the highest stats of all Zeta mobile suits. Much higher stats than the Zeta Plus series, and even higher stats than the original Zeta Gundam. Despite the Re-GZ being the best Zeta in terms of performance, it simply can't beat Sazabi. The Re-GZ is not a bad suit, the but again, for story purposes, the CCA era suits are supposed to surpass it. Especially Sazabi which is absolutely bleeding edge tech.

If Char was serious, then Amuro most certainly would have eventually lost while piloting the Re-GZ. Make no mistake, Amuro would put up a valiant fight, but the Sazabi's performance would have eventually overwhelmed Amuro.

>>23425891
regz is slower than zeta

>>23425910
No. It's not.

>>23425914
betcha it is

>>23425910
Re-GZ is 7 years newer than Zeta Gundam. Of course it's faster and better. All the information confirms it.

>>23425926
okay let's compare

>>23425931
Pretty sure other anons already did it. Regz stomps Zeta

>>23425910
>regz is slower than zeta
You are looking it wrong.

(I'm assuming you are using Gundam wikia?)

The speed numbers published for Zeta Gundam are for when it's in Wave rider mode.

The speed numbers published for RE-GZ are for when it's *not* using it's BWS pack, and is in mobile suit mode.

It's very deceptive if you aren't aware of what's going on.

>>23425963
>>23425976
show the numbers

>>23425762
>Also the S Gundam has no psycommu for the pilot to mind-meld with ALICE anyway.
The incom's Quasi-Psycommu is a simplified psycommu device like the biosensor. Hell, the name even comes from the biosensor, which was referred to as a Quasi-Psycommu in some of older databooks

>>23426049
It takes 5 seconds on Google you lazy bum. Go look it up yourself.

If you are going make a request, then at least ask for something that isn't easily found...like lost artbooks or something.

ReGZs awesome, as stated by anons above it did pretty well against two souped up newtype machines despite having no psycommu or anything. Also this suit is the official "fuck it we ball" pick for all available costs in gbo2

>>23422680
How come we never see giant ZZ beam sabers ever again on mobile suits?

>>23426542
weak excuses

>>23424112
>>23424489
>>23424507
>>23425287

The thing I liked about UC Engage is Char calling out Amuro and AEUG for their hypocrisy.

He says AEUG and Amuro had a real chance to make change. To make a Earthsphere better for the Spacenoids. Char fought alongside them and gave the AEUG/Karaba a chance. But they revealed their true colors to be nothing more than dogs and rats for the Federation politicians. That AEUG betrayed everyone by rejoining the Federation and creating Londo Bell thus becoming the very enemy they fought again. Char even says Amuro is a little rat that doesn't care about Spacenoids and only helps the Federation. He said Amuro could have become a politician and use his hero reputation to actually make a difference. But Char says Amuro is too weak to do any of that and is just a little rat who obeys his Federation masters. So Char has had enough waiting and is taking matters into his own hands.

Amuro tries to blame Char for what happened to Kamille Bidan. But Char says not to put blame on him for that. It's the fault of the AEUG and the Federation for just using talented people like pawns and swallowing them up when they become useless. What happened to Kamille was their fault.

Another funny thing is Char addresses the population issue. He says humanity has a breeding problem. He says Zeon killed 5 billion on Earth during the OYW yet humanity still is overpopulated and recovered just fine after the OYW can keep fighting and destroying the environment with more wars. Char finds it absurd. They refuse to live in hamony with nature and use technology to extend their lifespans beyond what nature intended.

Char also takes a jab at Haman and implies that Haman was never capable of killing him. She was a weak woman.

The whole dialog was interesting because nothing Char says is technically wrong. Amuro can't refute it. Everything he's calling out Amuro out for is true. It's just laced with malice and comes from a place of anger.

>>23426824
source?

>>23425287
It's slop because it puts Amuro in the red Dijeh a year after it should have already been wrecked versus the G-Doors and retooled into the black one
It was not well received upon release because they wanted to pull in Moon shit, but half assed it

>>23426882
Eh no. There's more interest in UC ENGAGE than there is with "Moon Gubdam". So if anything, Moon Gubdam is the one that's not canon. Especially since it's not animated. And Bandai says animation Trumps all

>>23426824
Amuro wasn't part of the AEUG though

>>23426795
>In universe
power requirements were huge for those sabers
>Reality
ZZ wasn't well received initially so they started to move away from big huge, and bulky super-robot looking MS

>>23426908
Moon Gundam IS animated in U.C. Engage, you peabrained faggot
Why are so many truly clueless people deciding they need to have a wrong opinion about this crappy gacha game lately? Did some vtuber faggot talk about it?

The black Dijeh was already in the game too, because Moon Gundam is already in the game, and basically, you are dumb.

>>23426824
>What happened to Kamille was their fault.
Wasn't Char literally the one who kind of dragged him into the conflict after he said he wasn't really sure about wanting to become a soldier? Even then, his response to Kamille's objectification was effectively to shrug his shoulders and say that that's how things work (until it was his turn to take one for the team and get guilted into taking responsibility for the AEUG, then it was time to bawl to Amuro about being a sacrifice). And in the first place, doesn't Londo Bell only exist as a response to Neo Zeon pulling a Zeon?
In the first place, Char would be the hypocrite of the century to complain about others spinning their wheels in place.

>>23427254
>And in the first place, doesn't Londo Bell only exist as a response to Neo Zeon pulling a Zeon?

Londo Bell exists because the AEUG (a para-military organization) joined the Federation.

As to why? That's debatable. It could be argued that Anaheim Electronics stopped funding them. Suddenly the AEUG ran out of money. So the Federation offered them a sweet deal: All the funding they need in exchange for submitting to Federation authority.

Char does have a point. AEUG was meant to make meaningful positive change for both Earth and Spacenoids, and to fight against the oppressive Federation Titans. What was the point of the AEUG if they just joined the Federation and took the Titan's place?

It's clear by the events of Unicorn that Londo Bell is already becoming more oppressive and darker. The Nahel Argama opened fire on a civilian colony, and special forces were executing civilians and gunning them down.

>>23427135
Karaba is the Earth branch.

>>23422559
I bet Judah in the ZZ would have beat Char. He was able to over come Ple/Puru's funnels and Haman's funnels (both being stronger newtypes than Char). Plus, I very much doubt Char's attempts to get into his head would have any effect on him.

>>23427329
>muh judah
stfu haman

>>23427308
>Char does have a point. AEUG was meant to make meaningful positive change for both Earth and Spacenoids, and to fight against the oppressive Federation Titans.
Anon, the AEUG was a disjointed group of individuals from all sides of the political spectrum brought together against one shared enemy. Without a unifying force, they were always going to end up getting absorbed by the larger Federation. If Char had an issue with that, maybe he shouldn't have run away from his problems the second the opportunity presented itself.
>What was the point of the AEUG if they just joined the Federation and took the Titan's place?
How is Londo Bell anything like the Titans? They're perpetually underfunded specifically to prevent them from becoming the Titans, and they have nowhere near the freedom that they had either. Moreover, they actually fight zeeks.
>It's clear by the events of Unicorn that Londo Bell is already becoming more oppressive and darker
That's irrelevant to the actual argument Char is making.

>>23427308
Wasn't the AEUG much stronger than the Federation military after Zeta? Why didn't the AEUG just say to the Federation "Okay. We're making some changes to benefit everyone. You better listen. We know you have nothing left. The Titans are gone." Then take over and put all those new laws in place for Spacenoids.

>>23427135
>Amuro wasn't part of the AEUG though
Didn't AEUG and Karaba merge together by the end of Zeta?

>>23427135
Amuro left to fight in space during ZZ so he must have joined the AEUG at that point.

>>23427468
you don't have proof of that

>>23427482
You are misinformed. Please do mroe research.

>>23427482
It's said on screen in ZZ that Amuro left to fight in space. Now, joining the AEUG isn't outright said though, but Karaba is Earth-only.

>>23427482
>you don't have proof of that
You mean besides the ZZ anime?

I'll take your lack of reply as a concession. Have a nice day. Buh-bye now.

>>23424520
Even at the time of the OYW there were more spacenoids than earthnoids.
>>23426824
A big problem with what Char tires to argue here is that it largely ignores the events of ZZ, particularly his deliberate absence during said events. Probably because it would force him to admit that he wanted the AEUG to fail, all so he could set up his final showdown with Amuro.
>>23427355
Cope Char, you were always a 2nd rate newtype.

>>23422559
>If both pilots are equal, than a Zeta Gundam is not beating the Sazabi. If both pilots are equal, then A Zeta Gundam isn't beating a Jagd Doga either.
But Char is not equal to Amuro. He is CONSIDERABLY worse in terms of skill.

>>23422559
UC Engage is literally just zeonwank through and through. it's actually crazy. Peche entire story is just zeonwank too.

>CCA era suits completely outclass Zeta era suits. As seen when Char humiliated Amuro when he was using the Custom Dijeh.
That's why Amuro canonically nearly completely disarmed the Sazabi using the ReGZ right? On its best day, the ReGZ is worse than the Zeta even if they're similar on paper. UC Engage is just zeekfags wanking themselves. They even added in an adapted version of Amuro's temper tantrum from Beltorchika's Children, which only happens because he was being a lazy bum instead of hunting down Neo Zeon. And they also made Londo Bell look like actual rabid nutjobs who randomly started firing at any MS they see in colonies and kill a kid who attacks them when they killed his friend in an unarmed Geara Doga for no reason and nearly kill his father. It's trashy fanservice for zeekfags.

>>23428294
>That's why Amuro canonically nearly completely disarmed the Sazabi using the ReGZ right?
Char was not fighting Amuro seriously. But, yeah, ignore that for your headcanon. Actual Amuro wank is absurd.

>>23428368
Reminder that Amuro's ideal MS was not the Nu Gundam but the Re-GZID

>But, yeah, ignore that for your headcanon. Actual Amuro wank is absurd.
lel, look at this guy ignoring things because he doesn't like it. Char not trying hard doesn't mean Amuro wasn't trying, idiot. You think they change winners in a competition because a guy says "I wasn't trying so it doesn't count"?

>>23428294
>That's why Amuro canonically nearly completely disarmed the Sazabi using the ReGZ right?
Never happened.

Using all his strength, the best Amuro could do was take out Sazabi's rifle. And that was with Char holding back a lot.

>>23428294
>And they also made Londo Bell look like actual rabid nutjobs who randomly started firing at any MS they see in colonies
Londo Bell was already doing this in Unicorn. Did you forget they opened fire on a Colony and gunned down civilians?

>>23427807
>A big problem with what Char tires to argue here is that it largely ignores the events of ZZ, particularly his deliberate absence during said events. Probably because it would force him to admit that he wanted the AEUG to fail, all so he could set up his final showdown with Amuro.

To be fair, AEUG betrayed Char first. Remember how angry Char was that AEUG was trying to make a deal with Axis Neo Zeon? Char was against it from the start but got ignored by Bright and Wong. Then AEUG betrayed Char further by literally saying to Haman, "We will give you Side 3."

Char was like wtf? And angry afterwards. I can't imagine the guy who spend his youth taking down the Zabi family was particularly pleased with the AEUG suddenly restoring the Zabi's back to power and giving Haman control over Side 3.

I can't blame Char for giving up on the AEUG and leaving them.

>>23427441
Only with the Gundam Team, and they were all retiring after the war was over. The manpower shortage of the AEUG was really severe after Gryps, which is why Karaba had to reinforce them in space to fight back Neo Zeon. Although the AEUG backers in Anaheim were driven by profit, so cozying up the Federation afterward was going to happen eitherway.

>>23428475
I'd say that's less on intentionally massacring civilians, and more that the Federation is really fucking bad at fighting within the Colony for some reason. Not in terms of skill, but using beam weapons haphazardly and firing everywhere. During Industrial 7, after Marida destroys a Jegan with funnels, she notices the wreckage causing damage and limits her usage of it to try and prevent collateral damage. A lot of the shots that kill everyone in Industrial 7 seem to be more from stray shots and unintended consequences rather than malice on either party, since we see Riddhe's ReZEL save Takuya and Micott.

>>23428587
In Unicorn didn't Londo Bell have elite troopers that invaded on foot and started shooting up everyone they came across? Killing Civilians, scientists, engineers, etc? Basically non-combatants. Like not even arresting them. Just executing them in cold blood in their house and in the hallways. Bam bam bam. I'm not sure why I should be rooting for Londo Bell. That's even worse than the Titans.

>>23422442 (OP)
Most even halfway successful mass-produced versions of the Zeta aren't Zeta-style transformations but more like the Methus. Like the ReZEL uses the Methus system.

>>23428650
The Rezel doesn't look any less complicated than Zeta. In fact in some ways it looks more complicated than Zeta.

>>23428480
>Remember how angry Char was that AEUG was trying to forge a temporary alliance with a lesser evil to take out the Titans at a lower cost to themselves?
I can't imagine being such a child in my 20s that I would actively sabotage my own team's chances of success just to talk shit to Haman, no.

>>23428648
So the ECOAS team is unaffilated with Londo Bell. From what I saw, none of them went after civilians, even during the Palau Assault, they specifically made sure to avoid the civilian sector. The Man-Hunters are also unaffilated with Londo Bell, but that's more their speed. They'll beat and kill civilians so they can be deported to space. That said, the Titans would use G-3 Gas on entire Colonies to suppress dissent, so I wouldn't call the Man-Hunters or ECOAS worse in my view. They even tried to Colony Drop Von Braun, it just didn't work so no one talks about it.

>>23428472
He forces Char to discard his shield, and takes out a funnel too in the span of a few seconds.

>>23428648
That's not Londo Bell, that's Federation wetworks. And the Vist Foundation was going to hand over the Laplace Box to the Sleeves. It's just short of treason. Regardless, Unicorn is zeekwank. The entire premise of the show is that the Federation as it exists was secretly an illegitimate government that legally shouldn't exist because it was basically founded through a secret coup and violated the original charter written by the democratically elected prime minister and his administration. The entire idea is so beyond the pale of stupid that you can't defend it. It tries to retroactively justify Zeon's "fight for independence" because an illegitimate government has no right to govern

>>23429174
No, the last clause doesn't justify Zeon, but it does delegitimize the Federation as they are supposed to be including Spacenoids in the government (particularly NewTypes), while during the 0080s and later they are trying to put everyone who doesn't matter in Space so they can ignore them.

>>23429187
The idea that a NEW TYPE OF a human would be given higher priority for roles of leadership and power based on this one document still genuinely baffles me to no end. Like pre-EF and space would just know some superhuman would emerge from living in space and that regardless of what capabilities they had beforehand, should be allowed to control the government.

>>23429212
I mean the US for example wrote parts of constitution to cover new technology. It wouldn't be that much more of a stretch to do something to cover new evolution.
Also they were literally changing the calendar as people were so excited about space colonization. Not hard for some spiritual person believing space to make humans better to squeeze something in, and since it's unlikely there might not be that much opposition to democratically stop it.

>>23429212
>DEI for spaceniggers
Not so different from us

>>23429217
>I mean the US for example wrote parts of constitution to cover new technology.
what the fuck are you babbling about?

>>23422442 (OP)
Imagine you are a formula 1 driver, and your boss decides he wants to build a new car. Luckily, he has the plans for the best car around and you always wanted one of those specific cars because they're cool as fuck. So he starts building the car.

Unfortunately, he doesn't really want to spend a lot of money. So instead of cool formula 1 tyres he buys some LingLongs. Then he uses an engine from an old 2003 Corolla, and some old brakes he found in the bin outside Repco. He strips out all the KERS, AMBAC, and other things with names that confuse him, and when he's finished it looks like one of those "cars" they sell on AliExpress.

You take one look at the thing and say "fuck off, I'm not getting in that thing". He points out that he was real fucking cool about you being a terrorist for a while so maybe you should shut the fuck up and get in the robot. It's true that he was pretty chill about the whole terrorist thing, and he probably could still use that to get you shot in the head. So now you have to spend the next six months driving the Temu Clown Car robot into battle.

It doesn't even have the ability to turn into a plane, which was the whole entire point of the cool robot...uhh I mean formula 1 car. So now you have to ride into battle on its gay ass little space boogie board.

That is the Re-GZ.

>>23429452
You just described the Hyaku Shiki

>>23429159
>He forces Char to discard his shield, and takes out a funnel too in the span of a few seconds.
Char leaves the battle with his shield just fine. You are remembering the fight wrong.

>>23429087
>Remember how angry Char was that AEUG was trying to forge a temporary alliance with a lesser evil to take out the Titans at a lower cost to themselves?
>I can't imagine being such a child in my 20s that I would actively sabotage my own team's chances of success just to talk shit to Haman, no.

Lmao. Lesser Evil?

How many people did the Titans kill? About 10 to 20 million.

How many people did Zeon kill?
Around 6 BILLION.

Yet you have the balls to say Zeon is the lesser evil? Lmao.

Yeah I'm siding with Char on this one. He was right to be pissed at the AEUG.

>>23430227
>How many people did the Titans kill? About 10 to 20 million.
Those are rookie numbers! The Titans suck.

>>23430227
>How many people did Zeon kill?
Around 6 BILLION.
And Zeon has jack on the resources and manpower that the Titans possessed. In the first place, are we going to ignore the number of people we concretely know the Titans are PLANNING to kill?
>Char was totally right to fuck up the alliance that would have saved hundreds of his own forces
The only person that agreed was Katz for a reason, Anon.

>>23430404
they couldn't get shit done in 4 years, RESULTS are what matters

>>23426795
they were ugly and stupid

>>23430218
Nah, he just gets it back after the saber clash.

>>23430732
The animators just forgot to draw it for the quick cut away. Char has it for the rest of the battle, and when he leaves the battle. Amuro himself never knocked the shield away. If you read interviews about CCA, the staff were under firm deadlines and didn't have time to realize some errors. Same idea with Char's cockpit being so huge when he ejected. Animation mistake.

>>23430740
>M-MUH ANIMATION MISTAKE
Cope more

>>23430732
Please show us the exact scene where Amuro destroys the shield as stated in your original claim.

>>23422442 (OP)
Unironically Re-Gz is in my top ten favorite mobile suits across the franchise

>>23430935
it's one of the only gunpla I actually want to buy
I don't know if it would look cool next to an MG Hyaku Shiki and the RE-100 Dijeh
I really want a Rick Dijeh Modified lol

>>23430446
The results were going to get there with the colony laser. It was a needless ego-driven risk that wound up giving the AEUG more problems and getting plenty of their own killed. Moreover, the second Char has the AEUG doing what he wants by fighting Haman, he runs off like a bitch to do Neo Zeon.

>>23430991
if you insist on counting future plans that were never realized then it's easy as fuck to just say "gihren always planned on culling part of the human race" so as far as the titans go, they weren't even the first to fail at wanting to kill billions

>whole thread ignores the Re-gz custom
Why?

>>23431565
>faggot custom

>>23431567
It looks way better than whatever the fuck Ippei Gyoubu was trying to do with the Re-GZID

>>23431578
>ideal faggot

not a looker among the lot

>>23431578
>>23431565
>whole thread ignores the Re-gz custom
>Why?
Because all these new designers ignore Re-gz's core idea. Re-gz is supposed to look simple, streamlined, and share parts with the Jegan. Yet the Re-gz Custom looks like the designer just wanted to make the Re-gz look more Zeta Gundam. In addition, the Re-gz Custom looks much more angular with sharp edges. This is goes against Re-gz's design language. The original Re-gz has curvy lines and rounded edges. So in that respect, at least Re-gzID keeps true to the design language of the original Re-gz. Nice curvy lines and rounded edges. Not sharp or angular like the Re-gz custom. The Re-gzID looks like a normal Re-gz with some extra parts bolted on. The Re-gz custom looks like the favtory opened up a brand new production line.

I'm not saying the Re-gz Custom is a bad suit. It looks fine. But it's basically just a blue Zeta Plus at this point. The designer of Re-gz custom is basically saying "How close can I make this thing to original Zeta without breaking the lore?". It doesn't look like a Re-gz to me.

Same issue I had with the Re-gz custom they used in Build Fighters Try. It's not a Re-gz anymore. It's basically a custom Zeta Gundam or as the guy calls it "Lightning Gundam".

>>23431448
Anon, the colony laser is unveiled like three episodes after Char's temper tantrum. It couldn't have been a total unknown.
Regardless, Axis Zeon isn't the one PRESENTLY with the colony laser, or the one with intent to drop any Colonies on Dublin, or the one blatantly trying to wipe most of the team off the map. All that retard had to do was make a temporary alliance of convenience and stab Haman in the back the moment the current biggest threat was taken care of. Easy (and not even out of character for him). Instead he fucked his team over for his pride, ran away like a bitch while his protege actually took care of business, and left the crippled AEUG to take care of the force he was supposedly so morally opposed to (despite pulling the same shit in the next entry).

>>23431693
Thing is the original design of the Re-GZ sucks major ass, deciding not to follow the original blue print was the right call

>>23430825
>>23429159
>He forces Char to DISCARD his shield

>>23431693
The original ReGZ art was more curvy looking.

>>23432293
The lineart looks so much better

>>23425762
This sounds great
I want a series on this

>>23432289
There is no scene of Sazabi discarding his shield in the opening on CCA.

You are thinking of UC Engage.

>>23432000
>Thing is the original design of the Re-GZ sucks major ass
Other anon is right. It's not supposed to look like a unique snowflake Zeta Gundam. RE-GZ is *supposed* to look like it's the Jegan's brother or cousin. They both share a lot of the same spare parts by design. They are family members. Why can't you understand that?

>>23430732
If you watch the entire fight frame by frame, you will notice that the Sazabi shield actively rotates position on the arm. It stays attached the entire time, and the connection point for Sazabi's shield is the elbow. It can rotate to allow Char to use the beam saber. It's not like other Gundams or GM that have to use their hands to hold the shield. Sazabi can still use it's left hand while also keeping the shield attached. In that frame, the Sazabi rotated the the large part of the shield behind its back and it's blocked from view by Sazabi's shoulder armor and arm. Sorry but my autism is greater than yours. I did frame by frame viewing.

I'm not sure why you idiots are hating the RE-GZ.

It doesn't NEED to transform. The detachable BWS is amazing idea.

I'm not sure why none of you fools have realized that, or why the Federation hasn't realized it.

If you can detach the BWS, then that means you can different custom BWS backpacks depending on the needs of mission.

That means RE-GZ is ultra versatile.

Imagine heavy weapons BWS for RE-GZ with tons of missiles and guns.

Or high speed BWS for RE-GZ with extra boosters and tanks.

Or hyper mega launcher BWS for RE-GZ with extra long range beams and generators.

There's tons of possibilities here you fools

I hate how all the lore and databooks say the Re-gz wasn't mass produced because it's too expensive. Like dude...the Re-gz is an upgraded Jegan with a base jabber duct taped to its back. How much cheaper can you get? Lmao. I don't think you can make a Zeta Gundam clone much cheaper than that

>>23432625
I can't imagine the ReZEL was any cheaper either.

>>23431578
I actually like this suit a lot. I just don't like the gun. It's too big.

>>23431565
Is this the RE-GZ that runs around with a giant Russian Soviet AK-47? Yeah no Thanks.

>>23422526
It's not refined it was simplified for mass production.

>>23432565
lmao this reads like the lefties trying to excuse epstein

>>23432648
rezel had a cheapass body based on the methuss so they were able to spend more on better guns, plus it doesn't have the BWS retardation

>>23432730
>lmao this reads like the lefties trying to excuse epstein
You are an absolute idiot.

>>23432747
quick, tally up all the regz haters and the lovers

https://etc.ch/hRbe

>>23432730
>lmao this reads like the lefties trying to excuse epstein

>always relating everything to politics

You have a mental illness. Seek help.

>>23432992
if you don't like it, leave

>>23432565
>A bunch of different packs
>Supposed to be an MP MS following the downscaling of military
This would be fine if it was going to be a one-off machine, but the Re-GZ was supposed to be cheap enough that regular soldiers would use and be easy to maintain. The ReZEL basically does the same thing with its Defenser Units and even that isn't very common.

>>23432625
A regular Base Jabber is signifcantly cheaper for what you need it to do. The BWS kept getting damaged and detached during battle, so if they lost one and it didn't return, they'd need to make this one special unit that only the Re-GZ can use. In addition to cost, the ReZEL solves other issues its predecessor had. The ability to use it as SFS for other Jegans in space made it so you didn't need to make room for Jabbers/Sleds inside a ship. It also had a limiter that made it so regular pilots could control the Waverider like one would a standard MS form, which was a problem for both Amuro and Kayra (outside of Kayra being kind of a shitty pilot).

>>23432565
They should have SNRI fix up the leftover REGZ to do that. So that the BWS doesn't get forcefully purged every time it wants to revert to MS mode.

>>23433300
>A regular Base Jabber is signifcantly cheaper for what you need it to do.
Wouldn't a BWS be cheaper than a base jabber?

Because Base Jabber also have cockpits where people can ride inside if needed and use it as shuttle. Base Jabber can be automated. But the factory still needs install a cockpit and life support systems inside every Base Jabber.

Meanwhile the BWS is a bunch of guns and boosters. Very simple imo.

>>23433777
Yes... if it was mass produced, but the base jobber is a proven design platform that's still getting support in multiple fronts. Bws only works on the ReGZ since it wasn't designed to be compatible with other ms, so it ends up being an expensive one off.

Why can the Federation afford Zeta Gundams and Zeta Pluses and Delta Pluses, but can't afford a Re-gz? This makes no sense.

>>23433783
the zetas were obtained in 0087\0088. then they passed on the regz in 0091 but it turned out to be a good thing because the delta plus came along in 0094 and they bought that instead and it does EVERYTHING without needing new backpacks

good thing the feds never bought into the regz scam that was just a money printing excuse for anaheim to sell them new BWS parts after every battle, imagine needing a subscription for new backpacks

>>23422442 (OP)
Is Re-GZ considered a failure because they never made further development on Re-GZ line?

>>23433818
pretty much, RGZ-91 was so badly deficient they continued development by scrapping that idea completely and starting the next RGZ-95 using the methuss as a base

>>23433777
It depends on the Base Jabber model. The most simplest one for transportation like the Type 94, Booster Beds, and Shackles have 0 weapons. Booster Beds and Shackles also have no cockpit and rely entirely on the MS to be controlled. BWS on the other hand as mentioned above, only works for the Re-GZ and we have no idea if it works on Earth either. If it doesn't, then they'd need to make an entirely new BWS to separate the two like Dodai/Jabber vs Booster Sled/Shackle.

>>23433783
All of them were too expensive, the Zeta Pluses needed different versions to operate between Earth and space, and they were starting to be phased out for the Anksha and ReZEL which were cheaper as both transformation and SFS-capable MS since they shared parts with the Jegan. Delta Pluses were reserved for commanders and aces, but I don't know how many were produced. Probably within the 10s at the most.

>>23433783
Why can Zeon afford mobile armors but not Gundams?

>>23433845
>All of them were too expensive, the Zeta Pluses needed different versions to operate between Earth and space
Well, the A1 was optimized for Earth-use only, but because Gundam mangaka are retarded, a bunch of A1 units show up in a space colony and the lore was changed so that the A1 can apparently go there as well even though it doesn't make sense to transport Earth-use MS to a space colony when presumably there are already space-use MS closer nearby in space that they can transfer to the colony.

The C1 was also optimized for space-use, but it's part of the original lore that it keeps the same waverider-mode wings as the A1 as a cost-cutting measure and it just so happens that the C1 is fully capable of descending to Earth and flying in the atmosphere, which even happens in the actual Gundam Sentinel story.

>and they were starting to be phased out for the Anksha and ReZEL which were cheaper as both transformation and SFS-capable MS since they shared parts with the Jegan.
Yes, this is the truth. Not only that, it was a shame that the Asshimar had to be phased out due to it having a minor association with the Titans. The Anksha was justice to the Asshimar design.. if only they didn't drop like flies in Unicorn.

>Delta Pluses were reserved for commanders and aces, but I don't know how many were produced. Probably within the 10s at the most.
If you believe the shit they print in model kit booklets, they even claim that all of the Delta Pluses are fitted with biosensors.

>>23433847
>Why can Zeon afford mobile armors but not Gundams?

Zeon's problem was never a lack of money. It was a lack of manpower and pilots.

>>23433880
What about Gqucks Zeon being bankrupt post OYW?

>>23433861
At a glance, I have a hard time telling them apart, but they really couldn't just say they fucked up and meant that it was supposed to be a C1? Damn it Bandai. I assume C1 in MS form at least struggles to move around compared to the A1 without going into Waverider Form.

>The Anksha was justice to the Asshimar design.. if only they didn't drop like flies in Unicorn.
Yeah, it's an effective design that incorporates a lot of previous tech to really function as an atmospheric flight unit. At least that 1 Anksha Pilot in Narrative went out swinging despite the movie's flaws.

>If you believe the shit they print in model kit booklets, they even claim that all of the Delta Pluses are fitted with biosensors.
>>>>The Federation asked for it but no one knows why.
Just say they were looking to give it to prospective Newtypes, but that is really stupid that EVERY Delta Plus has one. I'm willing to believe the Delta Kai has one, but I ignore everything from Silver Phantom.

>>23433894
That's a different story altogether. I mean one EF chick has a killcount of over 100. Tenneth A. Jung, the top EF ace during the OYW in the original story, has a killcount of 149 from killing carriers. When accounting for actual MS, it was closer to 46-52 units.

The only argument the haters seem have is

>it's not as good as Zeta Gundam!!

That's all they got. Nothing else.

>>23436145
that's literally the only bar they had to clear and they still fucked up

>>23436329
>that's literally the only bar they had to clear and they still fucked up
All the databooks say Re-gz has higher performance than Zeta Gundam.

>>23438317
source?

>>23438866
MAHQ. Every stat is higher than Zeta

>>23438963
Is MAHQ reliable?

>>23447219
They just reprint the same stats that have been around for decades. Not that these numbers (outside of height) mean very much.

The Zeta's shield in the animation so funky.

>>23422559
Funnily enough in Gundam Narrative, I almost completely forgot this, but a troop of Dijehs are able to wipe the floor with newer Jegans and Ankshas despite being antiquated. The only upgrades the Dijeh's were using were modified beam rifles to take new E-pacs, which is mostly a logistics upgrade for the machine
>>23428743
The methuss frame is supposed to be pretty stupid simple, with it basically just folding in on itself and that being it more or less. The zeta frame has lots of moving parts to jam up and not work together. The Methuss may have been a stupid shitty MS, but it's frame was fundamentally a good idea
>>23430952
When Bandai drops the Rick Dijeh im buying like 4 of them, such an amazing design

>>23432625
The Federation at the time couldn't justify mass adopting any kind of ace suit. If Unicorn is to be believed(it may as well be non canon, fuck Unicorn) this problem only gets worse with the federation just buying up small batches of any random ace type MS like the Delta plus for example. I think we also see a ReGZ in the background as well so they at least got a few of them, but they sorta just blend into the mess of random ace suits they were playing around with at the time

>>23447284
This says on paper it's on par with the Zeta.

>>23424517
it's libel written by Anaheim's rivals, pure and simple. engineers from Konpeitoh would love to tell you that Amuro would have died and that with some ex-Titans wunderwaffe he could have easily defeated the Sazabi but that's a load of bull.

>>23447341
I think the Methuss was fine, it was just used by a pilot who was out of her depth and had a bad set of weapons

>>23447286
>The Zeta's shield in the animation so funky.
I always thought the Zeta shield was so strange. It was essential for Zeta's transformation into waverider. But that defeats the purpose of a shield being disposable. So the animators were left in this weird situation where they couldn't cause damage to the Zsta shield because the transformed Zeta would look wonky.

Just look at how many times they damaged or blew up the Gundam Mark 2 shield. But the Zeta shield was left alone. Am I the only one who noticed this?

The Re-gz makes so much lore sense because everything on the suit is treated as replaceable and disposable. The Re-gz doesn't lose functionality if something is missing like what happens when Zeta loses its shield.

>>23448213
I meant more that they tried to give it the collapsing feature that other Zeta MS had. I don't recall it ever doing that outside of the 2nd intro and maybe when they used that as stock footage. The shield itself also seems like it was their way of getting a more traditional Gundam look after the first few iterations gave it a backpack nosecone. Even the Psycho Gundam started out as a Zeta proposal.

>>23449195
I honestly think Okawara was secretly the best Gundam designer all along, despite how much he got kicked to the curb with Zeta and later entries. The F91 designs are superb, even if the movie got fucked over by the format

>>23449269
I can understand why they went with something more streamlined with Macross and Transformers upping the game on vehicle modes. Like Okawara's Zeta before that was just it laying down as a "Shuttle Gundam. "Seeing some early footage of Transformers actually convinced Tomino to use as little stock footage as possible with the transformable MS so they could integrate mode switching with the action.

Reading the posts in this thread makes me quesiron all of you. I actually like the Re-gz. I like it even more than Zeta Gundam. Re-gz feels like a military suit and it's performance is very respectable. With the right pilot it was beating the latest Jagd Doga newtype Zeon suits. Anyone who insults that is a fool.

>>23449741
yeah the Re-GZ fucks in the beginning of CCA

>>23447482
I'll keep that in mind, thank you anon

>>23447820
it's a small delight whenever one of its vidya appearances remembers that it has six fucking beam sabers

>>23452526
wtf it has six beam sabers?????

>>23449269
Okawara makes some really iconic traditional designs. His recent stuff with Seed Freedom is great. Even though the suits got smashed, I enjoyed Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice.

>>23423609
But the Jesta isn't a mass-produced suit, anon. It's a highly advanced limited production suit meant to keep up with shit like the Unicorn. The actual high performance suit they adopted before late UC brought us stuff like the Heavygun and Jamesgun was the Gustav Karl.
That said, I agree. The ReGZ isn't a bad suit by any means, it's just that it was competing with stuff like the Jagd Doga, the Sazabi, and other high performance NZ suits and mobile armors.

>>23454658
yep, three in each leg. iirc it could use the sabers with its legs

>>23457349
why

>>23422829
What if Amuro was given the Delta Plus instead of the Re-GZ?

I still feel he’d fair a bit better until it was time for the upgrade. Alternatively, would have been interesting if he was given the Roswell Jegan

>>23447375
Yes or no biosensor?

>>23457772
>What if Amuro was given the Delta Plus instead of the Re-GZ?
Amuro would probably do about the same or maybe even worse. Amuro loves throwing his equipment as distractions and decoys to win battles. Re-gz is a better fit since none of Re-gz's equipment is required for using it. Everything on Re-gz is optional and semi-disposable.

Delta Plus is too reliant on its shield for weapons and transformation. No shield means no wave rider mode. It can't carry as many weapons as Re-gz either. Don't get me wrong. Amuro could make use of Delta Plus, but Re-gz just fits Amuro's style better.

Delta Plus fits Kamille better. Peck at enemies from long range with beam rifle. The boom and zoom into enemies with a beam saber and zoom away. Hit and run tactics.

>>23457862
The Delta Plus is basically a transforming Hyaku Shiki. It's what Char SHOULD have had during all of Zeta.

>>23457862
>>23459344
>>23459817
I think it's absolutely hilarious that they covered the Hyaku Shiki is anti-beam coating yet Quebely's funnel still shot right through Hyaku Shiki. The coating did nothing. Char even resorted to using a handheld shield during the later part of Zeta because he didn't trust the anti-beam coating.

>>23459935
it's the rule of joints, ain't gotta explain shit

>>23459344
The worst part is that it actually does work, it's just that it can only take one hit at best. The O's Beam Rifle grazed like the foot of the Hyaku Shiki, and then the next shot The O popped off took out the whole leg.

>>23425762
>>23425097
ALICE only intervenes when the pilot is shit though, and Ryu Roots is shit and ALICE has to take over so many times that Ryu would have died many times over if she didn't

As Amuro is not a shit pilot, even if its a ZZ-era MS, Ex-S would definitely decimate Sazabi and the Jagd Doga in the first fight in the movie

Deepstriker would definitely also make penetrating Zeon defensive lines and destroy all the ships allowing Ra-Cailum have an easier time to land on Axis and do their job and break apart Axis even before the point of no return

>>23460034
The The-O's handheld weapon is called a beam rifle but it's more like a beam bazooka compared to a normal mobile suit, it's gonna tear off a limb for sure

That and the anti-beam coating is not like CE anti-beam coating. UC anti-beam coating is only good for against near-misses that graze the armor or light attacks like beam vulcans or beam machine guns.

>>23457772
if Amuro was even just given a naked Narrative, even without A-packs or psyco-frame, the opening movie would have ended in a Amuro win, Narrative has so much higher specs than the Re-GZ and actually has high thrust than Nu

>>23460029
Pretty sure the funnels shot right through the anti beam coating.

>>23460046
I believe it's on par with the Asshimar's Beam Rifle, but I imagine it's still a good benchmark. I'm not sure how much of a point difference between a 2.2 MW (Hizack) vs 2.6 MW (The O) is though.

>CE anti-beam coating
I find them pretty similar, at least in terms of the laminated armor they put on the Dagger units. The 105 Daggers in Freedom get onetapped by the Immortal Justice's beam rifle (although it is stronger than the beams used in CE 71) The Slaughter Daggers on the other hand get shot down by the beams of...Civllian Astrays of the DSSD. The Yata Mirror and Femto Armor are absolutely high grade beam defense though, not even mentioning stuff that came before like Positron Reflectors.

>>23460041
>even if its a ZZ-era MS, Ex-S would definitely decimate Sazabi and the Jagd Doga in the first fight in the movie

Lmao.

No.

CCA era suits are way too fast and much more responsive compared to Zeta AND ZZ era suits. That's what makes CCA era suits special. Their basic performance is so much better.

Gimmicks like giant beam sabers or oversized beam rifles won't save S Gundam. Sazabi will likely run circles around S Gundam and chop it to pieces.

>>23460077
Ex-S has 7.27 G of acceleration and 1182000 kg of thrust

Sazabi has 1.87 G of acceleration and 133000 kg of thrust

Ex-S would zip to where Sazabi are and shoot them quickly before Char and Gyunei could even react

>>23460041
Ryu isn't shit, he's just new to it having only simulation experience. People speculate a few times whether he's a newtype even without ALICE's performance. Also, it's 50/50 whether he or ALICE dealt the killing blow to Cod, someone who's so good that he could be mistaken for a newtype. The narration even has a spiel like "NO, this man isn't a newtype but he's like the AMAZING, BADASS SAMURAI of ancient japan"

>>23460041
If Sentinel ever gets animated, they will have to include it in the story. It was so sade to me when I found out years ago the Deep Striker didnt actually exist in the Sentinel story, it was one of those plans that was made but was never actually built.

>>23460048
>Narrative has so much higher specs than the Re-GZ and actually has high thrust than Nu
This retcon is stupid

>>23460322
Anon...S Gundam and Ex-S got it's ass kicked by Gundam Mk-V. But Gundam Mk-V only had 1.30G of a acceleration and 111200 kg of total thrust.

>>23459935
Fun fact: the Hyaku Shiki NEVER pulled out it's beam saber during the entire Zeta anime. However Hyaku Shiki did kick enemies several times.

>>23460388
Ryu Roots is shit, Alice always clutches for Ryu. Ex-S is wasted on Ryu.

a good pilot like Amuro would have made Ex-S a complete monster and decimate everything

>>23460387
it does make sense though

Mu Gundam and Narrative (only called Narrative when it was pulled out of warehouse) were prototypes of Nu Gundam

while Mu eventually evolved to a Nu Gundam design, Narrative was more like a toybox, testing different kind of technologies that will be put in the next generation Gundam

>>23460322
Except Ex-S can't turn for shit. It's basically one big rocket.

>>23460404
Ryu Roots was chosen for that very reason. They picked a cocky, overconfident pilot who would unknowingly rely on ALICE (Anaheim never told him ALICE was there) to force Alice to correct his mistakes in missions. It wasn’t until the very end when ALICE managed to find a way to communicate that Ryu finally realized there was an experimental AI in the Gundam

>>23460029
>it's the rule of joints, ain't gotta explain shit
The funnels melted right through Hyaku Shiki's armor. They didn't shoot the joints. One funnel shot the left armored bicep/shoulder of Shiki. The other even shot the armored thigh/waist. Even Char was completely taken by surprise.

>>23459935
>>23460391
>>23462023
Tangential but did the Sazabi use the beam tomahawk, I swear I only saw it use the beam saber
Or vice versa if I'm misremembering

>>23460412
The problem is both the Mu and Narrative don't fit into the Nu's backstory. The Nu was a cheaply made Gundam that re-used parts from existing MS cough jegan cough that Bright arranged with less than official funding from political allies and friends.

>>23460388
Doesn't include the shield booster, backpack arms, or butt thrusters. Or any of the auxiliary thrusters like the ones on the side of the legs. The MK V going full throttle manages to escape the EX-S on the moon surface, so it's probably capable of higher acceleration than the (limited) specs suggest. Given, it also had just fought the main fleet and the FAZZ and lost some equipment, so it probably was closer to its empty weight