Thread 23433782

>Sonia, the Guntank's gunner, wasn't killed. After recovering in a military hospital in Side 4, she and Creed are tasked with training MS pilots for the coming conflict against the Titans (ie. seceded Anaheim)

>Billy was blinded by the Solar Ray. Hiding with Janice in a remote island, he uses his Newtype powers to invest in the stock market and becomes a millionaire. Garcia pays them a visit and gets tasked with locating Newtype children: Billy is using his money to build a boarding school hideout.

>The Federation's forces advance into the South Seas Alliance's territory, but the faith has expanded in the space colonies. While they have officially renounced the teachings of Levan Fuu, Daryl and Karla are worshipped as saints (her betrayal is kept as a secret from the faithful), complete with rosaries shaped like Darryl's prosthetic hand.
>Kaufman, the former alcoholic Zeon commander, has become a bishop for the cult; JJ Sexton is still alive and working for them. The cult still has at least three Psycho Zaku Mk-IIs.

>At Confeito, the EFSF garrison deploys its latest mainline MS model: the Gunbullet, a mass-produced Guncannon. Now lacking Anaheim's expertise, the EF must now rely on old designs, such as GM Sniper Customs, Balls, etc.
>McGregor, Confeito's commander, has enough of Jaburo's incompetence and secedes Confeito from the EF as its own anti-Federation rogue force: EUREKA (using the AEUG's emblem from the "prime" timeline).
>supporting the newly formed EUREKA is none other than Scirocco's Jupitris, with its spanking new force of Messalas, Palace Athenes and Bolinoak Sammahns.

>Chow Ming survives the battle of the Solar Ray, but gets captured by Richard Simms, a Federation pilot from Gaiden I that had himself been a POW after rescuing a Zeon pilot in the Thunderbolt sector. He's put in jail, learns Xiangqi (Chinese chess) from Richard and becomes a grandmaster after his release.

>>23433782 (OP)
>Billy was blinded by the Solar Ray.
How the fuck you get blinded from what's essentially a computer display baffles me. People give Yas a lot of shit for supposedly "anthropomorphizing the mecha a bit too much", but pretty much every Gundam story has had some form of MS-sized flashbangs.
Even the cheapest dashboard camera from Temu comes with auto-exposure.

>>23433782 (OP)
Between this and GQuax, I would honestly like to see an alternate UC that doesn't segue to fucking Zeta. One thing is to rethread on the OYW, fine, but can't you people do something different for once?
SEED and 00 did that shit as well. You could even argue that Wing counts as well, if we were to consider Oz as a Titans analogue.

>>23433813
>How the fuck you get blinded from what's essentially a computer display baffles me.
Mom always said all that vidya would ruin your eyes

>>23433813
I believe it mirrors how Katejina got blinded. Newtype's brain can receive alot more sensation and trauma than what regular human's normally does. Too much pressure and parts of Newtype brain shutdown.

>>23433782 (OP)
The fuck? This is all going in a really weird direction.

So what ends up with Io

>>23433969
In all likelihood, that'll be the very last chapter.

>>23433782 (OP)
I'm started reading Thunderbolt but is this timeline everyone from the main series dies? Because we don't see them in Thunderbolt

>>23433782 (OP)
>>At Confeito, the EFSF garrison deploys its latest mainline MS model: the Gunbullet, a mass-produced Guncannon. Now lacking Anaheim's expertise, the EF must now rely on old designs, such as GM Sniper Customs, Balls, etc.
>>McGregor, Confeito's commander, has enough of Jaburo's incompetence and secedes Confeito from the EF as its own anti-Federation rogue force: EUREKA (using the AEUG's emblem from the "prime" timeline).
>>supporting the newly formed EUREKA is none other than Scirocco's Jupitris, with its spanking new force of Messalas, Palace Athenes and Bolinoak Sammahns.
It's kind of strange. I get anaheim is more tightly integrated with the federation's MS development here, but the Federation newtype labs were designing circles around Anaheim. The gaplant? Psyco Gundams? Do they just not exist in this universe? Scirocco, of course, did too. The Messala, The O, Gabthley, and Hambrabi were impeccable

>>23434026
No, the action always happens away from the main timeline. In the first chapter we got a Char cameo (pic related) and in the last, a Sirocco cameo (they don't call him by name).
Also, one veteran of the OYW witnessed Lalah's death and heard her voice

>>23433974
Probably going to give him the Super Gundam

>>23434339 (samefag)
Also, at the end of the battle for A Baoa Qu, the feds capture the Zeong production line and the Zeong 01 is missing (piloted by Char)

Part of me wishes it continued on with a Zeta AU, I wanna see how this author will design the Zeta Gundam.

>>23434352
>I wanna see how this author will design the Zeta Gundam.
Like so. Although this was probably drawn by his assistant, Sakura Mizuki. She has designed most of the MS in the latter arcs.

Also, Anaheim has (full-size mockups for) the Mk.II, Hi-Zack, Nemo, Rick Dias, Asshimar, Marasai and Hyaku-Shiki. And a security force around Von Braun made out of GM Commands, and mass-produced drone Big Zams.

>>23434318
>but the Federation newtype labs were designing circles around Anaheim. The gaplant? Psyco Gundams? Do they just not exist in this universe?
Since it was Anaheim that became the Titans in 0080, I don't think the custom research shops (Augusta, Oakland, Kilimanjaro, etc) even exist in this setting.
Also, apart from being exhausted from the conflict with the South Seas Alliance, the Federation still keeps its "big gun" philosophy, emphasizing numbers over specialized units. Even Io's Perfect Zeong was an upgraded salvage from >>23434347

In other words, fancy one-off prototypes for aces count for very little in the bulk of the EF.

>>23435052
>and mass-produced drone Big Zams.
And that's fucking awesome

>>23435052
>>23435130
And another thing: those Big Zams are big enough to serve as carriers. Each has a couple of GM Command squadrons on board.

DRONE GM Commands, by the way. So yes, Anaheim has an army of high-spec Mobile Dolls.

>>23433782 (OP)
I'm really happy the Guntank pilots got their happy ending, someone in Thunderbolt deserved it.

>>23435171
God, I love those thongs so much, and they even have the crooked smile (the cockpit window) of the MP EVAs

>>23435088
I would have assumed they would still have taken over Zeon's newtype labs. Where did they put the engineers who made the Zeong?

>>23435205
>Where did they put the engineers who made the Zeong?
In all likelihood, Anaheim got ahold of all of that.

>>23435171
Dear Lord this thing must be like 300m tall. What the fuck?

>>23435262
Oh boy, you haven't seen the monk's LARGE Zam, have you?

>>23435336
For comparison, that Zaku is coming out of one of four entire MS repair and ressuply hangars, and here it is surfing on the fucking colony laser. That thing is two or three kilometers tall

>>23435181
>I'm really happy the Guntank pilots got their happy ending, someone in Thunderbolt deserved it.
There's been a bunch of happy endings in the closure. Even that little shit Chow Ming made something out of himself.

>>23433782 (OP)
Is anyone else glad that this AE glazing manga is over? Like in Canon AE is so incompetent they don't make a mainline MS worth a damn until the Jegan and needed to steal stuff like moveable frames and later on miniature MS tech just to even keep up with their competitors.

>>23435428
>AE is so incompetent they don't make a mainline MS worth a damn until the Jegan
To be fair, nobody did: GM IIs were a cosmetic upgrade from the original and the Gaza-C was complete trash. The Federation pretty much passed all its manufacturing contracts to Anaheim (which was making deals with Zeon remnants on the sly), so there was nobody doing mass-production units anyway.

>needed to steal stuff like moveable frames and later on miniature MS tech just to even keep up with their competitors
Anaheim has always been a manufacturing concern first and an R&D lab second. Even SNRI's compact designs had to be built by Anaheim.

>>23435491
Barzams

>>23433782 (OP)
Um. No. Thunderbolt isn't over yet. More epilogue chapters are coming out.

>>23435515
>Thunderbolt isn't over yet.
I never said it had concluded. We're still missing the finale for a bunch of characters, including Io, Claudia and Lily. Perhaps Ohtagaki will do one with Anaheim's faction as well.

>>23433782 (OP)
So there are enough differences that the history of this UC has deviated and Zeta will not happen?

Not bad. It will be interesting to know how the new factions will interact with each other and how the set of other MS models will affect the combat operations?

>>23435676
>So there are enough differences that the history of this UC has deviated and Zeta will not happen?
The future for this timeline might have something Zeta-esque but in name only, since the Titans are now a seceded Anaheim, rather than a Federation task force, and what would be the AEUG is a very different thing. And there isn't anything resembling Karaba yet.

By my count, the factions include:
>official Federation forces
>Anaheim (Titans)
>Confeito garrison (EUREKA)
>Jupiter fleet, now allied with EUREKA.
>Nanyang Alliance
>whatever Zeon remnants might be left on the Earth sphere (are Delaz and his Zabi dead-enders doing anything?)

>Axis (is that even a thing on Thunderbolt? Haven't appeared yet)

>>23433782 (OP)
>Billy was blinded by the Solar Ray. Hiding with Janice in a remote island, he uses his Newtype powers to invest in the stock market and becomes a millionaire.
That's the most realistic use of Newtype powers I've seen yet.

>>23435130
Big Zam is mass-produced, but as what are basically G-Bits or Mobile Dolls. They remind me of those "blender drones" (the L.O.K.I. drones) from Code Geass: Rozé of the Recapture for being mass-produced WMDs that don't have pilots.

>>23435639
Wasn't Claudia killed in the attack on the cult?

>>23435639
Speaking of Io, it would be real stupid if he ends up dying the same way as Daryl, and it's how we close the book on this. Ergo, all the development he had is thrown into the trash in seconds.

>>23435914
Sorry, my bad. I meant Bianca.

>>23433813
>>23435130
>>23435171
>>23435336
>>23435639
The final battle of Thunderbolt was such a bizarre disaster. I don't want to write a long essay. All I have to say is that the Monks won. It was a slam dunk victory. Yet the writer forced all this unnecessary drama, 10 different betrayals on the Monk side, and buckets of plot armor just to give the Federation a chance to win.

Also the Perfect Zeong vs Perfect Zaku Gundam was a massive let down. They barely fought. Maybe a few pages total if you add it all up. It was just Io running away in the Perfect Zeong. Then the units were destroyed by the Colony Laser. That's it. No epic showdown or mecha slugfest. All that hype for nothing.

>>23435719
>Living on an island
That just means everything has to be imported. I doubt he has a ranch and farm on that island. He could use a micro-fusion reactor for power and desalination, but food and other sundries still need to be shipped in. It's a vulnerable existence.

>>23436487
Billy has the money to import everything through proxies and various smugglers. He'll be fine.

>>23436421
>The final battle of Thunderbolt was such a bizarre disaster.
>I don't want to write a long essay.
Please do.

>Yet the writer forced all this unnecessary drama, 10 different betrayals on the Monk side, and buckets of plot armor just to give the Federation a chance to win.
In case you weren't paying attention, Karla's eventual betrayal of Levan Fu had been established for years before the final showdown.

>>23435698
>>23436421
As someone who hasn't been keeping up with Thunderbolt, how badly did Zeon get kicked in the gut? Since the writer seemed to have a love for doing that. At this point I'm just going to assume Side 3 got destroyed or Zeon's remaining Space forces decided to cluster their remaining fleets together for no reason and they all got Solar Ray'd.

>>23436514
>how badly did Zeon get kicked in the gut? S
Zeon had been evacuated during the battle. And by "evacuated", I mean that the civilian government put thrusters in a number of colonies and moved the civilian population away from the battle.

>At this point I'm just going to assume Side 3 got destroyed or Zeon's remaining Space forces decided to cluster their remaining fleets together for no reason and they all got Solar Ray'd.
This is after the OYW, so the Principality is gone. This battle is between the Federation and some Buddhists with Psycho Zakus, the latter supported by Daryl's Nise Gundam/Braw Bro.

>>23435939
I think it would be the best ending we could get. Show them that the Feddies can't have a happier ending than Zeon.

>>23436530
Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't a decent portion of Zeon's forces refuse to surrender in the Thunderbolt timeline (Like 30-50%)? I would have thought they have some active fleets still separate from the Republic of Zeon, similar to their terrestrial forces, like the Dolos sub base. RIP.

>>23436550
>Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't a decent portion of Zeon's forces refuse to surrender in the Thunderbolt timeline (Like 30-50%)?
Only reference I can find to such a claim, from volume 4.

>I would have thought they have some active fleets still separate from the Republic of Zeon, similar to their terrestrial forces, like the Dolos sub base
Not much different from the "prime" timeline. And in Thunderbolt, a good chunk of the remnants are working with the Buddhists, like Daryl and his former crewmembers. The only actual "Zeon remnants" still left in the story are antiquity thieves.

>>23436672
That's the page I was thinking of.

>Not much different from the "prime" timeline.
Hard to say since even if you include Axis among the forces that refused to disarm, most of the remaining zeon forces still fighting were reduced to guerrilla tactics or bases. Ala The Garden of Thrones. From what I remember of Thunderbolt, Zeon still had some freestanding military forces and openly controlled territory.

>>23436513
That's hardly foreshadowing. And her ultimate plan didn't make sense. Hijack the Colony Laser to destroy Side 3? That's it? That's the reason she ruined the monks plans and killed Levan Fuu?

Hell, I'm sure Levan would have agreed to help her if she just asked.

>Karla: Hey Levan Fuu. I'll help you build Psycho Zakus if you agree to blow up Side 3 as well with the Colony Laser.

>Levan Fuu: sure no problem. After we destroy Anaheim Electronics with the first blast, we will hit Side 3 with the 2nd blast.

Problem solved. If Karla had done nothing, the monks would have won.

Do we have an image of the GunBullet?

>>23433782 (OP)
Best girl alright

>>23436863
seconding this
have always liked the guncannon over the gm series so a proper gryps war iteration of it intrigues me

>>23436863
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's this Guncannon, with the Gundam head

>>23437008
Guncannon was actually intended to be the protagonist machine back in 1979 but was changed due to requests from sponsors.

>>23434352
We already have the ZII
>>23435428
Thunderbolt Anaheim is way more advanced. This is barely a few years since the OYW yet they got machines into Zeta and ZZ. It's a miracle they didn't invent psychoframes or Turn A at this rate.

>>23437040
>yet they got machines into Zeta and ZZ
The CEO of Anaheim tells Io that those are just mock-up prototypes that will need 5 or 6 years to see real deployement (so it still fits with Z timeline)

>>23437027
So Gunbullet is a Guncannon successor that isn't restricted to being equipped with cannon.

>>23437027
It seems like the Federation despises the Gundam face due to Daryl's Nise Gundam?

>>23437083
Also, that commander was particularly mad at Anaheim for slapping the Gundam name to any upgraded GM

>>23437058
That's like CoD Black Ops logic where the MP5K has a prototype before the OG MP5 came out. It's like saying you've got scripts for sequels that won't be made for years, before you got movie 1 finished production

>>23437027
>it got GM II'd
now i just feel bad for it
sorry gunbullet i hope your jegan equivalent is badass

>>23436421
Will Super Gundam vs The O suffice?

>>23437099
They're "prototypes" until the base is attacked and the department's head realized they wasted money on display models during an active war

>>23437030
It is more complicated than that. Originally, Gunboy supposed to be about spaceship battles in similar style to Yamato, and then the sponsors suggested actual giant robots. Sunrise agreed to this and changed their mind, resulted the current mecha franchise. The sponsors were ok with Yas's Guncannon design and it was one of the early concept art that actually got to become a real thing with toy production.

>>23436863
>>23437008
>>23437027
>but I think it's this Guncannon, with the Gundam head
Kana even says 「ガンバレット」

>>23437083
>It seems like the Federation despises the Gundam face due to Daryl's Nise Gundam?
Bingo.

>>23437081
It's a mass-produced Guncannon by all accounts. Think of G-Quuuuuux's Light Cannon

>>23436863
>>23437008
>>23437027
>but I think it's this Guncannon, with the Gundam head
The kana even says 「ガンバレット」.

>>23437083
>It seems like the Federation despises the Gundam face due to Daryl's Nise Gundam?
Bingo. That, and Anaheim's connection with the Gundam as a platform.

>>23437081
>It's a mass-produced Guncannon by all accounts. Think of G-Quuuuuux's Light Cannon

>>23436514
>As someone who hasn't been keeping up with Thunderbolt, how badly did Zeon get kicked in the gut?

You mean the Zeon military as a relevant faction in the story? The author basically got rid of them as soon as possible to make room for his own custom Mary Su factions.

There are some remnants here and there, but they aren't important. On earth, they had a giant Dolos class underwater submarine base hidden in the ocean. It was massive. The MC set off some bombs and blew up part of it during his escape. It's unknown if the base still exists or if it was totally wrecked. All that matters is that Zeon military isn't relevant to the story.

Which is weird considering there are SO MUCH leftover Zeon military equipment all over the place. For a defeated faction, it makes me question how Zeon lost with so much weapons still laying around several years after the war ended.

>At this point I'm just going to assume Side 3 got destroyed or Zeon's remaining Space forces decided to cluster their remaining fleets together for no reason and they all got Solar Ray'd.

It's not made clear by the author where the surviving parts of Zeon's military went. There are some remnants that leave Zeon and join the Monks. But again it's not clear.

Side 3 itself was targeted by the Colony Laser in the final battle. Karla betrayed the Monks, shot everyone in the monk control room, and tried destroy Side 3 because she was so traumatized (She blamed Zeon for turning her love of making prosthetics for physically disabled people into a weapon). The Side 3 Colonies activated their colony thrusters and tried to run away. They survived but it's unknown if Zeon colonies moved to a new location or went back to their old location.

Anyway, Zeon isn't really important to the author from what I can see. He doesn't like using them and wants them gone as soon as possible. He wants to push his own Monk Faction, Anaheim Electronics (now called the Titans), and the Federation is splitting apart.

>>23435130
>Big Zam - Sizeable Zam - Normal Zam - Small Zam - Tiny Zam

>>23438473
>his own custom Mary Su factions.
Stop using terms you don't know the meaning of.

>For a defeated faction, it makes me question how Zeon lost with so much weapons still laying around several years after the war ended.
War is a bit more complex than just raw hardware. Materiel from WWII is still in active use in some places.

>She blamed Zeon for turning her love of making prosthetics for physically disabled people into a weapon
No, Karla hates Zeon because they arrested her father as a dissident. That's why she wants revenge.

>He wants to push his own Monk Faction, Anaheim Electronics (now called the Titans), and the Federation is splitting apart.
This is a good thing in my book. We've had fucking decades of "Zabi remnants this" and "Neo Zeon that". I'd rather see an entirely new faction at work.

>Anyway, Zeon isn't really important to the author from what I can see. He doesn't like using them and wants them gone as soon as possible.
Some remnants have had relevance throughout the story, but the focus is on Levan Fu's cult.

>>23438012
Did they straight up use the Origin MSD GM Sniper Custom design because they could have used photos from the model kit when the mangaka injured his hand?

>>23438012
Oh shit. Pale Riders.

>>23438653
The manga is already past the point when the art quality took a hit due to the hand injury, it could just be a minor easter egg in the background since it doesn't seem likely that they'll just start putting in variations from regular OYW and Origin since that isn't really the author's style and there's plenty of older OYW thunderbolt-type GMs with shields and whatnot the Feds could just deploy

>>23438473
Thank you for the clarifications.

>>23435698
Aren't they just riding on the "reversed" 0079 thing? Like Thunderbolt is basically that, Zeong (protagonist) vs Gundam (rival) instead of the old Gundam protag vs Zeong rival in original timeline.
And now it is Titans vs AEUG (Eureka) but Titans is now good guys while AEUG is bad guys.

>>23439510
>>23439510
>but Titans is now good guys while AEUG is bad guys.
Calling Anaheim the "good guys" is a stretch even under this arrangement.
And although I wouldn't call EUREKA the good guys either, they do present themselves asreformist faction made out of (former) Federation personnel that had to make a deal with Scirocco to bridge the tech gap against Earth's foes: the Levan Fu cult with their Psycho Zakus, Anaheim's fancy tech, and whatever the Zeon remnants might have in stock.

>>23439485
What "clarifications"? That guy knows jack shit of what he's talking about. He even got the reason for Karla's betrayal all wrong.

>>23439548
I was more talking about what happened to Zeon since you were less than forthcoming in terms of their military power after the OYW. Though the republic government moving the entire Side to avoid getting destroyed was an interesting move.

>>23439585
>since you were less than forthcoming in terms of their military power after the OYW
It's pretty much the same as in the "prime" timeline: the Principality is no more, Side 3 reorganized itself as a republic and there are a bunch of dead-end remnants fighting against the Federation. The spanner in the works on Thunderbolt, however, is the South Seas Alliance after they got ahold of the plans for the Psycho Zaku.

>>23438012
>Ill-fated
should be "Ill-starred"

>>23439540
I know, but since Eureka is taking over the role of the Titans from prime timeline, it is safe to assume that one of the new organization will become Thunderbolt's AEUG. Among all of them, only Anaheim with its already "constructed" Zeta Gundam...fit the bill. And goes by the theme, if AEUG is bad then Titan will be good now.

>>23439548
Diff anon here. Everyone ignore this post. Kara's reasons for betrayal are mixed. She hates Zeon for several reasons. Not just one. Anyone who says its because of just one reason is a fool and should be ignored.

>>23439654
>Eureka is taking over the role of the Titans from prime timeline
What? Apart from recruiting Scirocco, their roles are completely different. In fact, EUREKA replicates the AEUG's goal of being nominally "anti-Federation", but with a focus on reform rather than eliminating it.

>it is safe to assume that one of the new organization will become Thunderbolt's AEUG
I don't see the need for an "AEUG" (that is, "token rogue faction for the good guys", in a mold later followed by Londo Bell, League Militaire, COMPASS, etc) in this thing. Nobody in Thunderbolt's UC is to be trusted.

>Among all of them, only Anaheim with its already "constructed" Zeta Gundam...fit the bill.
>And goes by the theme, if AEUG is bad then Titan will be good now.
This is some very retarded logic, to be honest. You don't fucking hand it to Anaheim; only Jupiter is more perfidious than them.

>>23439686
>but with a focus on reform rather than eliminating it.
The AEUG never wanted to eliminate the Federation. Did you even watch Zeta Gundam? There's an entire arc centered around Blex spending his time in the Federation Assembly trying to push the Federation to space.

>>23440039
>The AEUG never wanted to eliminate the Federation.
Yes, that is exactly what I said. Maybe I should've phrased it better:
>the AEUG's role of "nominally 'anti-Federation' faction, but focused on reform rather than its elimination"

It is "nominally anti-Federation" because, if you ignore the dumb Engrish backronym, the name of the faction is literally "Anti-Earth Federation Organization" (反地球連邦組織, han-chikyuu rempou soshiki).

>>23440516
>It is "nominally anti-Federation" because, if you ignore the dumb Engrish backronym, the name of the faction is literally

I'm not ignoring something that's spelled out for you in databooks just because you don't like it. The name is AEUG: Anti-Earth Union Group.

Their ultimate goal at the time was to replace the Federation government (or reform it if they Federation was willing) into something that was fair to all of humanity. They wanted to give Spacenoids proper representation in the Federation Senate, and get rid of Federation oppression.


And guess what? The AEUG ultimately failed. Anaheim Electronics stopped funding them, and the AEUG joined the Federation and became Federation lapdops that oppress Spacenoids as we saw in Unicorn.

>>23433782 (OP)
>last manga chapters close loose ends
>guntank pilots, surviving monk pilots, etc
>suddenly open an entire new plot with EUREKA
Is Thunderbolt Z a possibilty?

>>23440604
>something that's spelled out for you in databooks
>The name is AEUG: Anti-Earth Union Group.
That's a backronym invented by Mark Simmons to make sense of the phonetic "eugo" from the show. Regardless, that name implies an explicit opposition to the Federation itself, rather than its actual role as a reformist clique from within the Federation's own ranks. It was never really separate from the larger organization.

>Their ultimate goal at the time was to replace the Federation government (or reform it if they Federation was willing) into something that was fair to all of humanity. They wanted to give Spacenoids proper representation in the Federation Senate, and get rid of Federation oppression.
All of that screed is exactly what I said, and none of that contradicts the fact that it is literally called the "anti-Earth Federation Organization". You understand what "nominal" means, right?

>And guess what? The AEUG ultimately failed.
While they didn't accomplish much of their lofty Contolist philosophical goals, their immediate tactical objective to defeat the Titans was successful.

>and the AEUG joined the Federation and became Federation lapdops that oppress Spacenoids as we saw in Unicorn.
What the fuck are you talking about? Londo Bell, the most obvious successor to the AEUG, still exists in Unicorn. Unless you think that stopping the odious plans of Haman, Char and the Sleeves is the same as the Titans's anti-spacenoid pogroms.

Scirocco joining something like AEUG is completely out of character for him, especially once you read the novels.

>>23440663
EUREKA is not the AEUG, just a rogue force from Confeito that happens to share the emblem for memberberry reasons.
Instead of appearing as a consequence to the Federation's relentless oppression of spacenoids, EUREKA is a reaction to Jaburo's incompetence: the Levan Fu uprising, Anaheim becoming the Titans and Zeon remnants still lurking around.

>>23440642
>That's a backronym invented by Mark Simmons to make sense of the phonetic "eugo" from the show.

Do you just ignore replies and write whatever you want?

AEUG (Anti-Earth Union Group) is literally written in multiple databooks. Therefore it's official.

Are you living in your Headcanon reality?

>>23440695
>AEUG (Anti-Earth Union Group) is literally written in multiple databooks. Therefore it's official.
You are arguing semantics. None of that is relevant to the argument about the organization itself. "Anti-Earth Union Group" means the same as "anti-Earth Federation Organization", except it sounds stupid in order to fit the acronym.

I bet you didn't know that Cyber-Newtype doesn't exist as a term in Japan. You can scour "multiple databooks" and you won't find a single mention of "サイバー・ニュータイプ". Yet again, it's a made up translation for an entirely different term, "kyouka ningen".

>>23440642
>Londo Bell, the most obvious successor to the AEUG, still exists in Unicorn.
Did I stutter? Londo Bell are the LAPDOGS of the Federation and can't actually stop things that actually matter. Like the Federation Chairman using the secret Federation colony laser to fire on colonies.

All Bright could do was say, "N-n-n-no. Don't do it!"

Then the Federation Chairman laughed in Bright's face and pressed the firing button. Bright didn't do anything. The old AEUG would have shot the Federation chairman in the face, and blown up the Colony Laser because it was the right thing to do. It's a horrible weapon of mass descruction.

Look how far the AEUG has fallen. Nothing more than Lapdogs of the Federation.

>>23440724
>The old AEUG would have shot the Federation chairman in the face, and blown up the Colony Laser because it was the right thing to do.
You honestly don't believe that would ever happen, do you?

>>23440722
>You are arguing semantics.
That's what the Japanese databooks and online material literally say. You aren't going to win this argument. Take the L and Move along.

>>23440728
Yes. That's exactly what would have happened. Quattro Bageena would have physically assaulted the Chairman if he was going to fire the Colony Laser, or use a gun to stop him and kill him. If you actually paid attention to Gundam, you would have noticed that he's not above using weapons to stop genocidal leaders.

>>23440695
>>23440722
I have also seen Anti Earth United Government

>>23440722
>I bet you didn't know that Cyber-Newtype doesn't exist as a term in Japan.

Tomino is the one who made it up. He oversaw the localization, which is why we got "Great Canyon" and "New Yark" in the dubs. It's no worse than how "Kido Senshi" is supposed to be "Mobile Suit" or the dozens of other mecha anime that have a title that gets massaged into vaguely matching English.

>>23440724
>Look how far the AEUG has fallen. Nothing more than Lapdogs of the Federation.
Well they were dropped like a hot potato by their funders Anaheim Industries once Titans were gone.
Novels deal with a lot more of the shady aspects of the AEUG

>>23440753
Also keep in mind that AEUG was coined back before "Earth Federation" was how Chikyu Renpou was to be translated. Before that you even saw "U.N.T." on in OVAs and games to represent the "United Nations of Terra."

>>23440757
>Tomino is the one who made it up.
Nah. "Cyber Newtype" is one of the number of proposals the English localization staff provided to translate "kyouka ningen". I bet the other idea was "Biosoldier"

>It's no worse than how "Kido Senshi" is supposed to be "Mobile Suit"
Except for the fact that モビルスーツ is used in dialogue. It ended up as a replacement for "kidou senshi" in the English title for reasons.

>>23437137
>we built display models on hypotheticals
>including hypotheticals that would only exist years later when a random kid named Kamile Bidan created them
>and we have display models based on what-if sequels of that what-if that wouldn't be invented yet

>>23437137
>they wasted money on display models during an active war
Test articles are common in the aerospace industry. The Space Shuttle had a bunch, including Pathfinder, Inspiration and Enterprise.

>>23440894
>hypotheticals
>a random kid named Kamile Bidan created them
I think you are intelligent enough to figure out that, in this timeline, Anaheim's engineers came up with the various Zeta-era designs. While the designs are complete, they are still years away from actual combat deployment.
Also, that the stupid brat had nothing to do with this Zeta.

>>23440974
http://www.guard-lee.com/training_devices.php

>>23440974
>Also, that the stupid brat had nothing to do with this Zeta.
The anime literally states otherwise.

>>23440722
Anti Earth Union Group as a name really bugs me. It sounds less like they're anti earth-union and more like they're a union that's just flat out anti earth. Which might not sound like a huge distinction but it kind of is.

>>23441444
Maybe you should learn to calm your autism.

In Gundam, the Earth represents the Federation. It's a symbol. And they strange the colonies with their firm grasp. Especially after the events of 0083 where we find out Delaz's colony has destroyed the Earth's ability to grow crops on a large scale, and the Federation forcibly imports food from the colonies.

>>23441366
Are you illiterate or something, nigger?
>THIS Zeta
That is, the Zeta (mockup) we see on Thunderbolt, not the one from the anime.

>>23434318
>the Federation newtype labs were designing circles around Anaheim

>>23435088
>I don't think the custom research shops (Augusta, Oakland, Kilimanjaro, etc) even exist in this setting.
Looking back at some older issues, Lily and Yith were brought from Jaburo, not the more traditional Newtype labs like Murasame.

>>23441755 (p. II)

>>23435205
>I would have assumed they would still have taken over Zeon's newtype labs. Where did they put the engineers who made the Zeong?
They kept them in the Flanagan Institute, which is said to be located in Von Braun city (regular canon had Flanagan in Granada).

>>23441776 (p. III)
As an aside, Von Braun in Thunderbolt has a number of peculiarities that are more similar to Granada. Apart from the location of the Flanagan Institute, it is located on the far side of the moon: "prime" canon has Von Braun on the near side (facing Earth), with Granada on the far side (facing Zeon in L3).

Thunderbolt didn't do a good job of convincing me that Zeon lost the war. If all this leftover remnants exist, then how could have Zeon possibly have lost?

>>23433782 (OP)
i remember liking december sky, but reading this thread and the rest of the story seems goofy af, like goofier the gquuuuuux

>>23441796
Even before Thunderbolt, I always considered it that once Zeon lost their highest command leaders, smaller factions, who were likely only working together because of said leaders, split off to do their own thing and didn't want to work together.

Zeon leadership may have lost the war, but there are plenty of Zeon forces who didn't agree and either kept on fighting, or went into hiding to fight another day.

And it makes sense since Zeon remnants keep popping up. Some crazier than others. This is a major reason why the Titans were a thing.

>>23441796
This crap again? You already had your ESL screed in >>23438473, and it's still fucking stupid.

>If all this leftover remnants exist, then how could have Zeon possibly have lost?
It's nothing more than a bunch of dead-ender insurgents with some bases laying around. Not much different from the "prime" timeline, which had Africa full of Zeon guerrillas and bases in orbit like Delaz's Garden of Thorns or Palau.
The big enemy for the Federation (up until the thing with Anaheim) is the South Seas cult.

>>23441828
In real life, whenever this happens you would have many years of continuous war and non-stop insurgents. The Federation would never have 6 years of peace to rebuild themselves like in the original timeline. It's also weird how Thunderbolt constantly has leftover Zeon suits laying around. Germany lost WW2. They made thousands of Tiger tanks, but there's only like 15 that survived the war and were put in museums. But Zeon in Thunderbolt is the opposite. All these Zakus, Gelgoogs, and Doms running around.

>>23441907
>The Federation would never have 6 years of peace to rebuild themselves like in the original timeline.
They didn't in the original timeline either. Not only the Federation keeps fighting Zeon remnants for years, but the bulk of their forces during Gryps still uses upgraded old kit, like the Salamis Kai (only the Titans get fancier toys). Their frontline MS is the GM II, a mediocre upgrade for the original RGM-79 frame.

>Germany lost WW2. They made thousands of Tiger tanks, but there's only like 15 that survived the war and were put in museums.
Bad example. Nazi Germany built some 1,300 Tiger Is and 500 Tiger IIs, which is not only a pittance compared to 84,000 T-34s, they were only operated in Europe and North Africa. Not to mention their very well-known reliability issues.
The US built 50,000 Shermans, used in every theatre of the war and various allied nations. It's no wonder they were upgraded and kept in use for decades afterwards.

>But Zeon in Thunderbolt is the opposite. All these Zakus, Gelgoogs, and Doms running around.
It's also the same in the "prime" timeline. You are not saying anything new or exclusive to Thunderbolt.

>>23441943
>Bad example.
How is that a bad example? Anon is right. The losing side always has their stuff smashed and destroyed. There are no more Italian or Japanese tanks either except a handful in museums. Yet in Thunderbolt everyone can easily get a Zaku. Like shopping at Walmart.

>>23440642
It was always Yugo and Kamiyu. Mneidengard was right. We're all wrong. I kneel

>>23442402
That's a problem with any media showing Zeon remnants. it just doesn't make sense that they're able to upkeep these MS while also hiding from the rest of the world. Cutting edge MS aren't like IEDs or some shit.

>>23442461
>It was always Yugo and Kamiyu.
At the very least, the latter should've been "Camille", with a C.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_(given_name)#Male

There's got to be some phonetic reason as to why the name is rendered in Japanese with a yu (ユ) instead of, say, ru (ル) or an elongated u (ウー).

So what happened to Daryl and Karla?

>>23442402
>Yet in Thunderbolt everyone can easily get a Zaku.
Why do you keep saying "Thunderbolt" when this has been the case across each and every story that deals with Zeon remnants?

>>23442509
>it just doesn't make sense that they're able to upkeep these MS while also hiding from the rest of the world
Eh, Gundam has consistently handwaved maintenance and manufacture. G-Quax is by far the worst offender, followed by SEED churning out new super-prototypes in weeks.

>>23442760
>spoiler
How is GQuuuuuuX bad about it?

>>23442762
how where a buncha slum rats able to upkeek a highly classified and experimental MS model

>>23442756
Both died when Bianca's nuke destroyed the Big Zam and the colony laser. Darryl's soul seems to have transcended to the Beyond Time.

>>23442760
to be fair to the desert zakus, they are supposedly kept up to date with hizack spare parts instead of original zeon spares

>>23442778
fuck, thanks anon

>>23442402
>The losing side always has their stuff smashed and destroyed. There are no more Italian or Japanese tanks either except a handful in museums.
See? This proves your ignorance right here. Japanese aircraft and AFVs were used for years after Japan's surrender, especially in China.

>After victory in the civil war, the Chinese People's Liberation Army continued to use them in their inventory. The PLA's force of 349 tanks in 1949 consisted mainly of Japanese Type 95 Ha-Go and Type 97 Chi-Ha tanks.

>>23442756
>So what happened to Daryl and Karla?
Karla was wearing a space suit and was blown into space. It's unknown if she survived. Daryl started crying a lot, but suddenly had a newtype vision. It's unclear if he's dead or alive. The author purposely left it ambiguous.


>>23442778
>Both died
Everyone ignore this post. We don't know for sure since Daryl started freaking out and seeing the souls of everyone with his newtype power. Until the last chapter comes out for sure, their status is ambiguous. Not dead. Knowing his track record, It's very likely the author will show Daryl alive somewhere in the very final chapter of the Manga.

>>23442770
Oh yeah. I guess them fixing up the Zakus kinda makes senses, I'm sure quite a few spare parts 'fall off' of supply trucks if you know the right guy or bribe a cop. The colony government is clearly corrupt. I don't how they maintained the Gundam though.

>>23442803
>I don't how they maintained the Gundam though
Like for most of tsurumaki's retardation, the answer is "dont think about it"

>>23442800
>Karla was wearing a space suit and was blown into space.
>The author purposely left it ambiguous.
Right, and they were able to outrun a nuclear explosion big enough to obliterate the colony laser, when the Atlas was barely able to get out of dodge.

>Knowing his track record, It's very likely the author will show Daryl alive somewhere in the very final chapter of the Manga.
Nah, Ohtagaki likes killing characters off. It would be a big asspull to show them alive.

>>23442800
Ahhhh okay. Thanks. I hate when anons lie and troll other. I wanted a true confirmation. Not guesses. We all know how Gundam works. Unless you see the dead body on screen, then they aren't dead.

>>23442817
There's a Daryl hater in these Thunderbolt threads. He's been posting for years that Daryl should die and Daryl beating Io is asspull nonsense. It's best to ignore him if you want unbiased facts.

Like you said wait until the final chapter comes out before we make any decisions.

>>23442813
Anon asked for real confirmed information. Not your speculation and hate.

>>23442817
>Unless you see the dead body on screen, then they aren't dead.
What dead body? They both died in a fucking nuclear explosion. There's nothing left. I don't know how much more clear-cut it gets.

>>23440779
These guys misremembered L-Gaim having "Bio Soldiers" but they do use "Bio Sensor" to refer to Olibee as one of Posaydol's brainwashed soldiers that she can telepathically see through like a sensor.

>>23442799
That's a terrible counter argument. The Japanese army in China wasn't defeated by the Chinese. They surrendered when America attacked their Japan home. The Japanese handed over their equipment to the Chinese as part of the surrender terms.

>>23442778
>Both died when Bianca's nuke destroyed the Big Zam and the colony laser.
Pretty sure she dies on pic related, Daryl removing his helmet was his death, and Karla holding him untill the nuke goes off was just newtype soul bullshit

>>23442823
Nuclear explosions aren't a big deal. Mobile suits explode in nuclear explosions all the time when their reactor goes critical and nearby people survive just fine. Not to mention you didn't whine and complain this much when the Thunderbolt Federation fleet somehow survived a point blank COLONY LASER blast by using freaking ballute parachutes. Lmao. Hypocrite.

>>23442822
>He's been posting for years that Daryl should die and Daryl beating Io is asspull nonsense. It's best to ignore him if you want unbiased facts.
As I have said repeatedly in various threads, the big asspull across Thunderbolt has been Io making it alive, not Daryl. This shit is offensive.

>Anon asked for real confirmed information.
Why don't you ask the author on Twitter, then?
https://twitter.com/ohtagakiyasuo

>be Daryl
>be Io
>fight
>another draw

>>23442813
>>23442823
>>23442833
Thanks but I want confirmed info. Not guesses. I will wait until we know for sure when the manga is done

>>23442840
Strange. Realistically no hospital patient would still be allowed to have his gun on his body. They remove all that equipment.

>>23442747
It's based on the French pronunciation; "~ille" begins with a sharpened "I" and ends almost with a "Y".

e.g Versaille in Japanese would be "Berusaiiyu".

>>23442836
>Mobile suits explode in nuclear explosions all the time when their reactor goes critical and nearby people survive just fine.
Are you the same /a/ tourist schizo that ruined multiple G-Quuuuuux threads with this crap?

>Not to mention you didn't whine and complain this much when the Thunderbolt Federation fleet somehow survived a point blank COLONY LASER blast by using freaking ballute parachutes.
Stop lying. They weren't in the beam's path. And the ballutes just protect you from nearby heat, not having the ray pointed at you. Daryl got the Braw Bro destroyed by it.

>>23442863
>And the ballutes just protect you from nearby heat, not having the ray pointed at you. Daryl got the Braw Bro destroyed by it.

Post the close up pictures of the mobile suits in the Colony blast you little liar.

>>23442866
Nothing in the direct path of the beam makes it, ballute or not.

>>23442872
1. Admit your mistake.
2. Are you stupid? The ones exploding are the suits that have NOT deployed the ballute. Idiot.

>>23442849
>Realistically no hospital patient would still be allowed to have his gun on his body. They remove all that equipment.
It wasn't Io's gun. Cornelius (very conveniently) placed it on Io's nightstand after poisoning him. Dialogue hints that he was going to shoot himself after doing the deed, but it's still a contrivance.

>>23442849
>Realistically no hospital patient would still be allowed to have his gun
That is Cornellius's gun, he leaves it at the nightstand when he injects poison into Io. Please leave this thread, stop judging by out of context pages and actually go read Thunderbolt

>>23442872
Looks like the ballute is working just fine.

>>23442881
>>23442890
>The ones exploding are the suits that have NOT deployed the ballute
From what we see here, the colony laser has a cone-shaped path. Just like in a nuclear detonation, damage is dependent on radius from the direct beam, reducing its power as it moves further away from the center. In other words, a ballute can protect an MS if it isn't on the direct line of fire.
Anything on the center line, however, gets crisped, ballute or not.

>>23442881
Let me ask again, are you the same /a/ tourist schizo that ruined multiple G-Quuuuuux threads with this crap?
It's a simple question. Yes or no.

>>23442872
The Perfect Zeong and Gundam survive. Colony lasers in Thunderbolt are clearly pathetic

>>23442898
The Perfect Zeon survives because the double ballute, the Braw Bro ends destroyed regardless

>>23442931
So you lied to everyone in thread?

>>23441444
It's just a very literal translation of 反地球連邦組織 (Hanchikyū Rempō Soshiki), which again was coined before they settled on an official way to write Earth Federation. The old MSV kits called the EFSF the "Union A.F."

>>23442933
Im not that anon you retard

>>23442937
Convenient. You are suddenly not that anon when caught lying. Hmm...

>>23442937
You are the only one posting photos anon.

>>23442987
No, he's not.

>>23442936
>>23442931
>>23442833
Neither of those posts are mine.

>>23442833
This picture made me realize that Gundam Thunderbolt doesn't do shrapnel. It doesn't exist in Thunderbolt. In so many Gundam Thunderbolt battles, exploding cockpits just melt into jello around pilots.

>>23443001
>exploding cockpits just melt into jello around pilots.
Gundam does that all the time, especially since most weapons are energy-based. Among the few exceptions I can think of are Misha in 0080, and various gory scenes in IBO.
Although this is less "shrapnel" and more "90mm autocannon at close range".

>>23443001
Crap, forgot the capture in >>23443335.

>>23442402
Space is a lot bigger than a small ass country in europe. It's a lot harder to round up people.

You know what annoys me about Thunderbolt? Its schitck of "changing the status quo, but not too much".
What Ohtagaki should've done is take a page off Attack on Titan and have the Solar Ray actually obliterating Anaheim, leaving the Federation to deal with the consequences. But no: the crap with the Zeta-era MS on Anaheim's plant was insulting enough as it was, but now they have to become the "new nation, 'Titans'", somehow.

Ditto with G-Quux: do what Char couldn't and have Nyaan really destroying all life on Earth. That would've been an interesting scenario change for the UC.

>>23443494
The plan of the monks was going so well. Then the writer bent over backwards to make them lose. Like hand of god literally came down and turned victory into defeat. It was utterly bizzarre to read.

>>23443572
>The plan of the monks was going so well. Then the writer bent over backwards to make them lose.
What part of "Karla's betrayal was foreshadowed for years" you fail to understand?

Although, to be fair, this part is really fucking contrived.
>how could my perfect plan fail? i was able to see the future right until the point i gave my brain to Karla, who i knew was bent on revenge against zeon

>>23436513
>In case you weren't paying attention, Karla's eventual betrayal of Levan Fu had been established for years before the final showdown.


Levan Fu healed her mind and read her thoughts. So how could her betrayal be foreshadowed? He knows her thoughts. Plus Karla should be immensely grateful and follow Levan Fu.

He's a Super Super Uber newtype. Monk leader Levan Fu should be able to sense her hostility even if she wanted to when she pulls the gun. Even regular Newtypes can sense that.

Also, why was the cockpit and control area of Big Zam completely unguarded? Why didn't their great Monk leader have more guards?

Furthermore why is there a hidden compartment with guns that no one seems to be aware of except Karla? Someone had to build that into the specs of the Big Zam aircraft carrier.

Plot hole after plot hole after plot hole.

>>23443796
>So how could her betrayal be foreshadowed?
It is literally on the picture you are quoting. It's clear there that Karla was plotting something on her own.

>Plus Karla should be immensely grateful and follow Levan Fu.
But she isn't, because "following Levan Fu" means ceasing to be human. You'd no longer have your own dreams or independent actions, just whatever the leader decides what is right.
In fact, she's on the same boat as he is, on a quest to destroy her enemies. The difference is that, while Zeon and the cult see extreme means (such as amputating pilots) as acceptable to their ends, Karla deeply regrets the things she did to Daryl; Levan Fu sees Daryl and the other Psycho Zaku pilots as mere tools for his scheme to destroy Anaheim and has no regrets.

>Also, why was the cockpit and control area of Big Zam completely unguarded? Why didn't their great Monk leader have more guards?
As the keeper of Levan Fu's brain, Karla had the cult's complete and utter trust. Even after the Big Zam's destruction, she's worshiped as a saint by the faithful. Kaufman only figured out her betrayal because he noticed Psycho Zakus malfunctioning at the same time on his ship's hangar.

>He knows her thoughts.
>He's a Super Super Uber newtype.
But he's not omniscient.

>>23443796
Following from >>23443868

>>23443868
You aren't explaining how a Newtype can't sense her hostility. This is an extremely basic thing among even the weakest of Newtypes.

>>23443890
for the same reason gyunei couldn't sense this hostility

>>23443875
this looks like dogshit dude

>>23443925
Whoever choreographed this scene didn't do a good job.

It not like Amuro just vanished. He just let go of his weapons and floated upward. Gyunei even still sees Nu Gundams on his screen so I don't know wtf is going.

If they wanted this screen to work, then Amuro should have deployed several mobile suit dummies or use nearby rocks or debris to hide himself for a split second.

>>23443932
I don't agree with this post, this is the master Tomino at play, you just don't understand it. You need to go back to Zeta Gundam.

>>23443927
Volume 26 hasn't even been released in Japanese and scanlators won't touch Thunderbolt because Viz slaps them with C&Ds, so you'll have to settle for AI.

The kind scanner group at /co/ has Thunderbolt updated up to v22:

>Mobile Suit Gundam Thunderbolt v22 (2024) (c2c) (phillywilly-Empire).cbr
https://mega.nz/file/adVSiIzR#2KXLzQehjCQbTAZLU-juOhnKGuYA2ZSI2jpgPpgG5UU

>>23436513
>>23443706
This isn't good writing at all. Not sure why you are trying to defend it.

>>23443950
Post The O
It's not complete but it also means G-Defenser isn't far away

>>23443950
Do you have a mega with all of the remaining volumes?

>>23443925
Is it the same reason Hathaway's Jegan BTFO a Geara Doga with his vulcans?

>>23444282
>Post The O
>It's not complete but it also means G-Defenser isn't far away
There isn't a The-O in Thunderbolt. Closest thing is the upgraded Zeong with sub-arms.

>>23439608
I really can't believe it's exactly the same as the 'prime' timeline when half of Zeon's forces refused to disarm and continue to fight. It seems like something that if it was the case in the 'prime' timeline, it would have been mentioned already.

>>23444775
>I really can't believe it's exactly the same as the 'prime' timeline when half of Zeon's forces refused to disarm and continue to fight.
I don't know about "half", but Zeon remnants are enough of a headache for the Federation for, at least, the two decades following the OYW (it's actually side-story manga/novel authors too lazy to come up with new antagonists, plus the notoriety of the Zaku as a design). There's also the sheer size of the Earth sphere, how many marooned Zeon forces were left around, and the zealotry to their chosen cause (Zabi dynasty worship, Contolist-flavored independence for spacenoids, Zeon patriotism, general anti-Federation sentiment) to the point that they wouldn't lay down arms after the formal ceasefire by Side 3's government.

>>23444794
According to the modern mangas and databooks, Zeon had enough military forces left to win the war, and defeat the Federation if the war dragged on any longer. Operation Star One (Space Counterattack) was actually a huge gamble.

General Revil decided to throw all of the Federation's military might into one massive speed blitz to attack the Zeon home colonies and force the leadership to surrender. The essence of the Operation was overwhelming speed and power to take Zeon by surprise before they could fully prepare.

The Federation committed almost everything they had from across the Federation into this attack. Nothing was left in reserve. If they failed, then it was likely Zeon could have counterattacked and won.

>>23444359
>Do you have a mega with all of the remaining volumes?
Here, almost the whole thing scanned, up to volume 22 (latest in English is v23; v24 comes out next month).
https://mega.nz/folder/OLJAUQxT#mcY5UXvtFKEeKi8J0w2XIQ

And a torrent from Nyaa, just in case: https://nyaa.si/view/1991982

>>23444881
Makes sense given how many Zeon remnants survived after the One Year War. It's like Star Wars. The Empire still had plenty of military strength to fight, but after the Emperor died, the Empire fractured into infighting and civil war. Same idea with Zeon.

>>23446677
>The Empire still had plenty of military strength to fight, but after the Emperor died, the Empire fractured into infighting and civil war.
https://nathangoldwag.wordpress.com/2020/07/31/star-wars-the-entropic-spiral/
>The principle of Galactic Unity [centered on Coruscant] had been broken.
>The Old Republic had lasted 20,000 years. The Galactic Empire had lasted 23. The New Republic 24.

>>23446689
I was talking about military strength. Yes the rebels blew up the Death Star, but Empire still had like 25,000 Star Destroyers and thousands of smaller vessels.

>>23446676
Has v23 been scanned yet?

>>23446754
No. Go and pester the scanners at >>>/co/149836229

Is the Thunderbolt anime canceled or not adapting the rest of the manga?

>>23444747
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fthunderbolt-finale-chapters-eureka-aeug-v0-vu5n6zsf22ff1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1280%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0489b8f21c1df738e39fdb538595eeb428b9bc78
Incomplete The O

>>23446803
dumb nigga spreading misinformation, that ain't even thunderbolt, that's just videogames. incomplete the-o my ass, it's literally a the-o torso attached to an even bigger machine

>>23440749
Are we going to pretend that Char didn't stand by while Zeon gassed a whole bunch of colonies? Or how in ZZ he just hid like a bitch when Haman was dropping colonies? Or how he was personally dropping asteroids in CCA?

He killed the Zabis out of personal revenge, not for any moral reasons. He *might* have assaulted the chairman if given the chance in Zeta but that never happened.

>>23446677
>>23446689
The Empire and Zeon are similar in that they focused too much on single figureheads that the top brass being destroyed meant you caused bajillions of schisms and factions. Palpatine cultivated a society in his image, full of selfish and ambitious greedy Moffs. They could've kept fighting the Rebel Fleet after the second Death Star's destruction but nobody would sacrifice their forces fighting and dying when they could rule their territories as warlords against rival warlords who would have a big time and military advantage if they didn't get home fast enough. Only guys like Thrawn could unite these selfish manchildren.

Zeon's proportionally better in that everyone can at least focus their ass pain on the Feds and anywhere from the Diaz Fleet, to Axis, Mars Zeon, and every other random Zeon Remnant group can at least partially cooperate. But IMO if any won, they'd immediately infight over interpretation of Zeon ideology. Hell, Haman had Glemy rally a coup BEFORE she won. And Gihren and Kycilia were likely to infight anyway given their disagreements even besides Ghiren killing daddy. I bet if the Federation did spontaneously disappear, all these Zeon Remnant groups would claw each other over who's the "true" Zeon.

So, the post-Thunderbolt factions are: Federation, Titans + Anaheim, Buddhists, EUREKA (AEUG) + Jupitris?

>>23446838
Pretty much so.
And, for fuck's sake, stop calling EUREKA the "AEUG". They are nothing alike. See >>23440681

>>23446820
>The Empire and Zeon are similar in that they focused too much on single figureheads that the top brass being destroyed meant you caused bajillions of schisms and factions.
>Palpatine cultivated a society in his image, full of selfish and ambitious greedy Moffs.
This is typical for personalist regimes of any sort. The archetypical example is Alexander's empire collapsing around the Diadochi, but you also have the Smuta in Russia after Ivan the Terrible, plus dozens of other examples across history.

>I bet if the Federation did spontaneously disappear, all these Zeon Remnant groups would claw each other over who's the "true" Zeon.
Argued about this on >>23444794. Zeon remnant movements include...
>Zabi dynasty fanatics (Gato, Delaz)
>Char followers
>Deikun-inspired Contolists for spacenoid independence
>Side 3 nationalists
>general anti-Federation sentiment
>assorted insurgents with a personal agenda (Cima)

>>23446811
Linking to plebbit ought to be punished with a perma-ban.

Wait, why is she the bad guy again? She's objectively correct here, and if anything Side 3 got off too easy in the original UC timeline (Gcucks timeline too).

>>23446952
I can make excuses for Levan Fu's plan to obliterate Anaheim, but murdering millions of innocents as "retribution" is bullshit. This kind of "tit-for-tat genocide" crap belongs in the CE.

>>23446965
>millions of innocents
They trained, supplied, and manufactured the weapons to kill literal billions.

>>23446965
>millions of innocents
They trained the zeon military, supplied the zeon military, and manufactured the weapons to kill literal billions. The one year war would not have been possible without the near total support of Side 3's citizens.

>>23446979
I don't want to mention, ahem, "current events", but collective punishment is for uncivilized animals.

>>23446985
What justifies the collective punishment for all those living on the moon?

>>23446987
Thunderbolt's Von Braun is less of a "city" proper and more of a giant Anaheim facility. The actual civilian population is small, since most of the space in the domes is used for the terrariums and Anaheim's manufacturing facilities. Destroying it is the same as, say, Allied bombers destroying the Ruhr industrial facilities during WWII.
There would be collateral damage, obviously, but it's a far cry from a vengeful act of civilian extermination.

It's clear that Levan Fu saw the future and had a glimpse of Anaheim's weapons as the spearhead for all the conflicts across the Earth Sphere, from the OYW to the Zanscare War. Everyone was using MS that were built and/or designed by Anaheim. While destroying it wouldn't do much for the ideological/political side of things, it would certainly cripple everyone's ability to wage war.

>>23447000
>The actual civilian population is small
Do you have any actual numbers for the population or are you purely guessing it's small?
>It's clear that Levan Fu saw the future
How reliable are his predictions, given the last few chapters?
>from the OYW
Nope, they began MS development way past the one week battle. Vast majority of OYW casualties were from Zeon's war industry.
>Zanscare
BESPA was formerly a SNRI branch.
I also don't see how they're so responsible for other conflicts in between, besides Gryps conflict. Axis zeon developed their own suits, as did Char's neo neo zeon. Cosmo Babylonia had no stated links with Anaheim, and Jupiter empire was Jupiter. Anaheim may had some dealings with these groups but they were not stated to be major ventures from what I can remember.

Finally this idea that you can just prevent mobile suits being used to proliferate war by destroying a single company is idiotic. Everybody that knows anything about warfare in UC should know that mobile suits is the meta. If Anaheim is gone another company would rise and take its place, because Anaheim didn't create a demand for war machines, people in UC (mostly spacechimps) demand war and Anaheim just happens to provide.

If a colony laser has to fire, I would totally make it fire against Side 3, full of retarded warmongers that UC has aplenty, rather than the nature preserve that UC cannot replace.

>>23447017
>or are you purely guessing it's small?
Look at we see on the manga proper: low-density structures and a lot of room to recreate Earth's biomes, including lakes deep enough to host whales, with each dome recreating a specific habitat. There isn't much remaining to house a large population.
In any case, it's considerable smaller than the 150 million inhabitants of Zeon (that one is a hard number from the manga) that would die.

>as did Char's neo neo zeon
Sazabi and the Doga series are Anaheim's. Plus everything operated by the Sleeves.

>Cosmo Babylonia had no stated links with Anaheim
Because the Buch Konzern was an industrial corporation whose proprietors decided to rule the Earth Sphere on a whim. Sound familiar?

>mobile suits is the meta.
The what thing? English, please.

>Zanscare
>>BESPA was formerly a SNRI branch.
I'm talking about the Federation/League Militaire, which still depends on AE to build MS.

>Finally this idea that you can just prevent mobile suits being used to proliferate war by destroying a single company is idiotic.
>If Anaheim is gone another company would rise and take its place
Did you read what I said or not? Destroying Anaheim isn't a definite solution, but obliterating the #1 arms supplier would certainly affect demand in the future. Without Anaheim's support, the EFSF has to mass-produce the fucking Guncannon.

>Anaheim didn't create a demand for war machines, people in UC demand war and Anaheim just happens to provide.
"Didn't create"? "JUST HAPPENS"?! Complete horseshit. The Gryps War wouldn't have happened (or it would've been much smaller in scope) if Anaheim hadn't been bankrolling the AEUG. Ditto Char's rebellion, the Sleeves and Mafty.

>If a colony laser has to fire, I would totally make it fire against Side 3, full of retarded warmongers that UC has aplenty,
Side 3 is, by and large, the most peaceful place in the Earth sphere post-OYW. And you would be murdering millions of innocent civilians out of spite.

>>23447036
Yeah they didn't create the demand in the One Year War. That was all Side 3 and Side 3 military, they created the initial demand. Only after the feds got their asses kicked did they demand more mobile suits, and you can hardly fault them for having a demand to having their colonies and earth constantly occupied by the biggest genocide committers in history. Similarly you can hardly blame feds and league militarire for procuring weapons from Anaheim to fight back against, among a few other things
>getting their civilians firebombed
>being conquered by a foreign country from space
>preventing a superweapon that will infantize and kill all life on earth
It's literally self defense and it's psychotic to say Anaheim is evil for arming bumfuck european hicks to defend themselves from a space empire coming to chop off their heads.
>Sound familiar?
It sounds like even when Anaheim is not present, some other industrial corporation would start producing mobile suits. It makes destroying Anaheim meaningless.
>Char's rebellion
No matter how much you blame Anaheim, the overwhelming blame is on Char for being a petulant asshole.
>Mafty
Those ministers deserved it.

>>23447017
>as did Char's neo neo zeon
Char's forces are entirely manufactured by Anaheim. Haman had Axis, but Char has no military base or factory to churn out the hundred-or-so Geara Dogas and the ~15 ships for his operations to drop 5th Luna and Axis.

>Cosmo Babylonia had no stated links with Anaheim
They actually have legitimate dealings with Anaheim via the Buch Concern business. It's all above-board as Buch was an up-and-coming small manufacturer of aerospace parts for spacecraft, worker pods, and junior MS in the time between CCA and F91. They were too small to be a business rival to Anaheim Electronics since Buch mainly dealt with civilian stuff and not the military, but sometimes Buch took on work for Anaheim that was subcontracted out to them.

>>23447052
Stop evading the argument with nonsense and answer the subjects at hand:
>Anaheim was directly responsible for a number of the post-OYW conflicts. Apart from turning a Federation clique into AE's mercenaries (the AEUG), Char wouldn't have been able to mount his stupid rebellion without AE's direct industrial and technical support.
>another prime contractor would at least be kept by the Federation on a tighter leash than Anaheim, which sells weapons to everyone. Or hell, why not build everything in-house? The Titans made a lot of their shit on their own facilities, including a high-spec mass production model, the Barzam.
>you are justifying the murder of hundreds of millions out of some sick fuck sense of revenge, and the only reason I'm not saying anything about "current events in the southeast Mediterranean" is because the jannies get uppity about such things and delete them on sight.

>>23447068
My argument is that Anaheim was not responsible for every retarded war post Gryps and some of their actions were even moral. There was absolutely nothing wrong with arming a militia group to fight against Zanscare.
>another prime contractor would at least be kept by the Federation on a tighter leash
It's called SNRI and their Side 2 branch got hijacked by Zanscare.
>you are justifying the murder of hundreds of millions
They have the blood of literal billions on their hands. For every Side 3 Zabi supporter (just about all of Side 3), there's literally dozens of people that died cause of the retarded war they started and fed. The ratio is way different than a territory of millions with a few hundred dune coons who did a tiny localized melty 2 years ago and haven't accomplished anything since.

>>23446952
Children did not do those.

>>23446842
>>23446838
Constant townie slop does not constitute being standalone or "original"
Thunderbolt posters here have historically ALWAYS been hostile to MS fights and the timeline continuing past 0079

>>23447180
>Thunderbolt posters here have historically ALWAYS been hostile to MS fights
No, that is just one autist that for some reason hates the BrawBroNiseG vs the Perfect Zeong

>>23447253
I've heard many people complain that this fight was bad. Is this true?

>>23447054
>Char's forces are entirely manufactured by Anaheim. Haman had Axis, but Char has no military base or factory to churn out the hundred-or-so Geara Dogas and the ~15 ships for his operations to drop 5th Luna and Axis.
Nah, turns out he was good friends with Anaheim but Moon Gundam shows during the period after ZZ and before all the Geara Dogas were ready, he scavenged survivors and manpower from Axis facilities outside the big rock itself and had Gaza Gs and Zaku IVs made for him. Then when CHar got Axis, he could've used the inside facilities all he wanted or mined more but he wanted to drop it on Earth.

>>23447076
>SNRI
SNRI was a research shop that had to subcontract production to Anaheim. It's like Nvidia's vaunted AI chipsets that are actually manufactured by TSMC.

>They have the blood of literal billions on their hands. For every Side 3 Zabi supporter (just about all of Side 3), there's literally dozens of people that died cause of the retarded war they started and fed.
After World War II, the West debated what to do about Germany. Ideas went from Theodore Kaufman's modest proposal to erase the country and sterilize its population, to Henry Morgenthau's plan to destroy/liquidate all heavy industry and reduce the whole thing to a "pastoral state". The Morgenthau Plan was a far cry from Kaufman's collective punishment, but a genocide would've happened regardless:
>There is the illusion that the New Germany left after the annexations [of the Saar and Ruhr] can be reduced to a "pastoral state". It cannot be done unless we exterminate or move 25,000,000 people out of it.

>>23447300
It's very anticlimactic and leans too heavily on fucking nostalgia.
>'member Zeong fighting with its detached head
>'member Last Shooting

>>23447769
Post WW2 allies were merciful largely because they wanted as many warm bodies as they could to fight off gommunism. On the other hand, the USSR which got absolutely bloodied, were less kind towards the territories they captured.
In UC there were no second power after the feds won, and it's insane to imagine that they let Side 3 off the hook for basically free. It's against human nature to not want some sort of vengeance when half your people are dead. Half.

>>23447180
>townie slop
What the fuck are you even talking about?

>Thunderbolt posters here have historically ALWAYS been hostile to MS fights and the timeline continuing past 0079
Because the story had a decent conclusion with A Baoa Qu.
There was no need to continue the manga for 20 fucking more volumes, much less with a new interloper faction of Buddhists.

Especially with Ohtagaki's constant rug-pulls: "nah, none of the two protagonists will get killed just yet" (>>23442840). Io should've been offed long, LONG ago. Instead, he gets saved after Yith not only revives his head, but also takes the poison that was intended for him in an act of literal Newtype telekinesis magic.

>>23447769
The SNRI branch that got hijacked in Victory was perfectly capable of cranking out armies of mobile suits and warships of completely new designs, without Anaheim's involvement in the matter. I do not see how that makes them merely a research shop without production capabilities.

Post WW2 allies were merciful largely because they wanted as many warm bodies as they could to fight off gommunism. On the other hand, the USSR which got absolutely bloodied, were less kind towards the territories they captured.
In UC there were no second power after the feds won, and it's insane to imagine that they let Side 3 off the hook for basically free. It's against human nature to not want some sort of vengeance when half your people are dead. Half.

>>23447797
That just tells me that Unicorn was incredibly realistic and appropriate when they retconned in the occupation of Side 3 by the Feds (literally did not exist in the lore before) as well as the space version of the rape of nanking

>>23447797
>The SNRI branch that got hijacked in Victory was perfectly capable of cranking out armies of mobile suits and warships of completely new designs, without Anaheim's involvement in the matter.
That's BESPA, which was roughly equivalent to the Titans's various shops: R&D with some small scale manufacturing plants. Zanscare captured the facilities and used them for their own ends.

>I do not see how that makes them merely a research shop without production capabilities.
Their name is literally "Strategic Naval RESEARCH Institute". They never made mass production designs; it's all one-off Gundams. Heavygun, Jamesgun and Javelin are Anaheim's.

>In UC there were no second power after the feds won, and it's insane to imagine that they let Side 3 off the hook for basically free
Star One was about throwing every single ship and GM they had to force a surrender from Zeon. The Federation couldn't pursue the war for a day longer after the fall of A Baoa Qu. That means that the post-war arrangement was focused on demobilizing Zeon's armed forces and rebuild the destroyed Sides, with nothing left to spare for occupation. And besides, what's the point of actually deploying thousands of troops inside the Side 3 habitats? They are metal cans floating in space: you can control the population with a couple of ships stationed outside each one.
And yes, >>23447810 is a fucking retcon (from the manga, not even the OVAs) that was put there because Fukui is a hard-right nationalist.

>It's against human nature to not want some sort of vengeance when half your people are dead.
To repeat myself, do whatever you want with the actual perpetrators, but collective punishment on innocents is for uncivilized animals.

And let's remember one thing. Karla's excuse is that "I WANT VENGEANCE BECAUSE THE EVIL ZABIS ARRESTED MY DADDY". Sure, Ohtagaki tacked a bunch of other arguments along the years the story has continued, but "MY DADDY!!1!!!" is her main motivation from the get-go.

>>23447849
>what's the point of actually deploying thousands of troops inside the Side 3 habitats?
uhh that's how you demilitarize someone?
>but collective punishment on innocents is for uncivilized animals.
How innocent are they? You're telling me those workers at the nerve gas factories thought no nefarious result could come from their work? What about the huge amount of workers who built that colony laser, they really thought Gihren wouldn't use it for mass murder? All those Side 3 ministers did nothing wrong? A huge portion of Side 3 willingly kept the war going while lying to themselves about how they're doing nothing wrong, or just didn't care.

>>23447849
Also to add
>Zanscare captured the facilities and used them for their own ends.
Wow you mean any group of militant assholes can just form their own mobile suit and warship manufacturing organization? You're telling me destroying Anaheim would solve anything when some newtype cult can produce armies of weapons on their own?

>>23447849
>And besides, what's the point of actually deploying thousands of troops inside the Side 3 habitats?
Military occupation is not the goal itself, it is an action taken to reach a different goal. You directly impose law and control on enemy city, the reasons usually being that the defeated enemy's government has collapsed and cannot adequately function and you don't want their entire society to collapse as well because you want their resources, or you want to make them your future ally, etc. Without soldiers physically being there with weapons, how do you expect to enforce rules and order?

> They are metal cans floating in space: you can control the population with a couple of ships stationed outside each one.
No, you can't. This is as silly as saying you can run a prison by keeping all of the prison guards outside of the prison. Say there is unrest, civilians are protesting or there are criminals taking advantage of post-war chaos to run black market goods or even openly commit violent acts. What good is the ship outside the colony going to do for that? Are they going send a strongly worded letter to the colony residents? Will they open fire on the colony with beam cannons and missiles?

If you want to control the population, you need to provide a physical presence nearby to deter unwanted actions and activity. If you were already willing to open fire with ship weapons, that means you were never intending on occupying them, you might as well just start killing them all from the start.

>>23447876
That's a fucking stupid take. of course you need to CONTROL a society. why in the fuck would you ever assume weapons and war is a ONE-TIME THING in human history?

if you don't take care of your body too, you die. you're basically complaining that because you will get hungry again in a day, there's no point in eating now

>>23447869
>uhh that's how you demilitarize someone?
They are cylinders in space. The population is trapped inside. Demilitarization would require a handful of troops taking inventory and control of military infrastructure. For the Federation, the priority is keeping security for themselves. Because Side 3 wasn't physically affected by the war, there's no reconstruction or additional safeguards to be deployed, such as shipping food or building materials. There's no need for "presence patrols".

>You're telling me those workers at the nerve gas factories thought no nefarious result could come from their work? What about the huge amount of workers who built that colony laser, they really thought Gihren wouldn't use it for mass murder? All those Side 3 ministers did nothing wrong?
That's thousands of people at best, while you are calling for the murdering of hundreds of millions.

>You're telling me destroying Anaheim would solve anything when some newtype cult can produce armies of weapons on their own?
And you still refuse to grasp the argument that it would solve the immediate issue of all the wars Anaheim supported and encouraged: Stardust, Gryps, Char's rebellion, the Sleeves and Mafty.
>but anaheim is working for a good cause, arming people against to fight against the evil zanscare motherfuckers!
Why does it have to be Anaheim? Can't you replace it with something less perfidious, like the EF building its own weapons?
>but snri!
To repeat myself, that's a research shop that did not make any mass production MS, only one-off Gundams. It's the difference between Skunk Works making a single prototype by hand, and Lockheed's full production line.

>>23447929
>Why does it have to be Anaheim?
Nice job destroying your own argument. If it wasn't Anaheim, someone else would've built the weapons for the other conflicts. This is the setting where the feds were able to build a massive armada of GM's in the short few months between September and December of the same year. Destroying one company wouldn't have meant anything.

>>23447987
>This is the setting where the feds were able to build a massive armada of GM's in the short few months between September and December of the same year
A feat that was never repeated again.

>Destroying one company wouldn't have meant anything.
It would (and I'm getting really fucking tired of repeating myself yet again) stop whatever insurgent movement from becoming armed with high-spec MS. Without Anaheim fanning the flames, the AEUG gets nipped at the bud, Char doesn't get a Sazabi and its army of Dogas, and Mafty is deprived of the Xi and Messers. You might have some flare-ups, but they would be forced to operate old salvage.

>>23448015
>Without Anaheim fanning the flames, the AEUG gets nipped at the bud, Char doesn't get a Sazabi and its army of Dogas, and Mafty is deprived of the Xi and Messers. You might have some flare-ups, but they would be forced to operate old salvage.
This would mean Axis Zeon and any group with in-house engineers would get huge demand. The RFs of Mars Zeon and other assorted groups may still happen and would be in exceptional high demand if they can come early. I get the feeling without Anaheim, Zeonic and Zimmad corp would scatter and bits of MS production knowledge scattered everywhere, along with many in-house groups like Karaba's boys who made the Dijeh would be more prominent.

>>23448015
>A feat that was never repeated again.
but another group building armies of mobile suits does happen again, multiple times
>AEUG gets nipped at the bud
Then it would be a Titan versus Axis Zeon war, and remember Axis Zeon built their own suits. Both sides were quite happy to massacre civilians. You're really saying it would be better if one of those sides won?
Or you're going to blame the Titans forming completely on Anaheim. Dumb, but fine, then it would be really complacent feds versus the Axis Zeons, and the latter would've done way more damage without Judau fighting them.

>>23447849
I don't understand Karla's revenge. The Colony Laser can fire multiple times. I'm sure they can come to an agreement. Fire on Anaheim first. Then turn around and fire on Zeon. This whole situation is not worth killing eachother over and all this betrayal.

>>23448035
>Karaba's boys who made the Dijeh
Nah. It's fully derived and upgraded from AE's units.
>The Dijeh is a prototype ground-use mobile suit developed by Karaba, based on the RMS-099 Rick Dias [ANAHEIM DESIGN] that AEUG left behind after the assault on Jaburo.
>Karaba put all of its industrial capabilities and technologies supplied by AEUG (ie. Anaheim) into building the suit, and although it uses avionics from the AEUG's MSA-003 Nemo [ANOTHER ANAHEIM DESIGN], its specifications are far better and worthy of an ace-use machine.
It's the same as the Chinese getting ahold of the IAI Lavi's blueprints and building it as its own fighter jet.

>>23448041
>Or you're going to blame the Titans forming completely on Anaheim.
No, I blame Anaheim for making a bad situation worse.

>>23448042
>I'm sure they can come to an agreement. Fire on Anaheim first. Then turn around and fire on Zeon. This whole situation is not worth killing eachother over and all this betrayal.
She hates Levan Fu as well and doesn't want him to win.

>>23448054
>She hates Levan Fu as well and doesn't want him to win.
Hate seems like a strong word. From what I saw, she doesn't hate them but she doesn't care much about their cause. Levan Fu didn't do hateful to her. Zeon is the one that hurt Karla.

>>23448042
There's the issue of "we have a whole bunch of ex zeon soldiers in our cause and they would be totally against their home colonies getting vaporized",

>>23448382
I blame newtype mind control. Just handwave all the plotholes with newtype bullshit or autism.

>>23444794
Based on what we know, the forces of Zeon that still fought after the war were those that left on Axis, the Delaz Fleet, and the various other smaller groups that either managed to stay under the radar like Bitter's base or if you want to cite a manga, the Federation funding zeon groups, like the sub from the Johnny Ridden manga.
If you asked me how much of Zeon's forces were still fighting, I wouldn't consider it being half ever. But then we never got a solid number, but it just felt like from the sheer scale of the battle of A Baoa Qu, there's got to be more.

Although this is entirely new >>23444881 I was under the impression this was more an Origin thing where Zeon could have won if they didn't come down with a lethal case of backstabbing everyone and everything at A Baoa Qu to the point it turned into a civil war.

>>23446820
IIRC, the reason the imperial fleet collapsed during the Battle of Endor was the Emperor was using the force to control the ship's captains or something to coordinate them and after he died, the whole system fell apart. Likewise Girhen was personally coordinating everything at A Baoa Qu and everything collapsed after he was killed.

>>23448979
>I was under the impression this was more an Origin thing where Zeon could have won if they didn't come down with a lethal case of backstabbing everyone and everything at A Baoa Qu to the point it turned into a civil war.

When 0079 Mobile Suit Gundam written, Tomino never intended to provide a definitive answer about Zeon's remaining strength. All Tomino wanted to do was provide a conclusive "bitter sweet ending" that let the viewers wonder about the ambiguous future. MSG concluded, but any lingering questions were up to the viewers imagination.

The recent mangas and databooks have used that ambiguity to say that Zeon had plenty of strength left, but it was spread across space. The Federation had struck too quickly at the end of the war before the Zeon Military could summon more ships and create an even more robust defense. Many Zeon ships were too far away when the battle of ABQ happened.

IIRC, the time difference between the Battle of Solomon and the Battle of ABQ was only 6 days. Basically the ships we saw at the Battle ABQ wasn't everything Zeon had left, but rather it was all Giren could summon on such short notice.

Imagine being a Captain on a Zeon ship near Side 4. You hear a report of the Federation launching a sudden attack on Solomon. You order your ship to turn around and travel to ABQ. But a few days later by the time your arrive, The Federation has taken both Solomon AND ABQ. Everything is total chaos. All your military leaders are dead. No one has any answers or orders. The Chain of Command is unclear. Total panic and shock. Wtf just happened? Now you have to make a decision.

Surrender to the Federation?

Try to go to the Moon and see if you can link up with Kycillia's fleet?

Return to Zeon colonies?

Become a mercenary pirate with your crew and fight on your own. Maybe start a pirate fleet.

Or join the fleet of refugees that's leaving Zeon to go to Axis. The last Zeon stronghold. The trip will take months.

Pretty crazy stuff.

>>23449013
>The Chain of Command is unclear. Total panic and shock. Wtf just happened? Now you have to make a decision.
>Surrender to the Federation?
>Try to go to the Moon and see if you can link up with Kycillia's fleet?
>Return to Zeon colonies?
>Become a mercenary pirate with your crew and fight on your own. Maybe start a pirate fleet.
You are saying it as if this scenario hasn't happened across history. And the only sensible answer is following the declaration of whatever surviving authorities might be left on your side and follow the final order to surrender.
On the day of Emperor Showa's radio address (exactly 80 years ago!), Japan still controlled most of Southeast Asia and large swathes of territory in China. And of the about seven million Japanese soldiers and sailors by that date, 99.99999% of them fully demobilized on the following two months.
The holdouts are notorious mainly as historical footnotes, rather than any actual battlefield accomplishments.

>>23448979
>IIRC, the reason the imperial fleet collapsed during the Battle of Endor was the Emperor was using the force to control the ship's captains or something to coordinate them and after he died, the whole system fell apart.
fuck, is it like that stupid battle meditation BS?

>>23450186
See that's just it, there IS no authority left. The zabis are all dead aside from mineva. The only thing that could constitute authority is the leadership of the axis fleet and you would exactly be able to be ordered by them until you linked up. That's a hell of a lot different than your emperor telling you to pack it up. And no, whatever puppet the feddies put up in side 3 is not any sort of real authority you can expect military remnants to listen to. And then you get into how fractured and factionalized the zeon military was even when the zabis were around. Even if say, kycilia didn't get chared much of the girhen faction likely wouldn't listen to her. Same thing for the kycilia faction if gihren said to disarm(not that he would, but hypothetically if he did).

>>23450468
Not like, it was battle meditation. Same shit you can have bastila do in kotor. Not so much mind control as much as a passive buff to coordination and such.

>>23450522
>See that's just it, there IS no authority left.
You are telling me there wasn't a single general left on all of Zeon that would've become the interim commander in chief? Nobody at all?

>whatever puppet the feddies put up in side 3 is not any sort of real authority you can expect military remnants to listen to
That's not how it works. National authority is still national authority. Soldiers bound to a country do not get to pick and choose who and what to listen. In the days following Hitler's suicide, you have a cascade of various local surrenders, ending with Keitel signing the complete capitulation of Germany.
The idea that a defeated army that still maintained a fair degree of internal cohesion would have, say, half of its forces just refusing to lay down arms is not only absurd, but unheard of in modern military history. And if you don't want to surrender, you can always go eat a bullet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_suicides_in_Nazi_Germany

And it wouldn't even apply in this case, since the individual that brokered the surrender was not an external individual, but Darcia Bakharov, who was the civilian prime minister during the Zabis' rule.

>>23450623
>You are telling me there wasn't a single general left on all of Zeon that would've become the interim commander in chief? Nobody at all?
Aside from the axis fleet which they would have to link up with? No. Nothing formal.
>that's not how it works
That's exactly how it works. You expect the military remnants to just roll over when they still had the means to resist? Why the hell would they do that? Because someone they don't respect told them to? Why would you think people who have the power not to listen would? It's one thing for the general population to grudgingly accept it, they have no means to fight back after all. It's another for the military to do so. Governments only have the power they can enforce or are allowed to have by the people under them and the feddies had no power to force zeon remnants to obey, only the civilians. That's totally different from germany which was beaten and broken to the point they had no means left to fight back.

>>23450672
>No. Nothing formal.
Think about it for a second, Anon. Zeon's armed forces number in the tens of millions, at the very least. You are telling me there isn't even one OF-10 left? Then who arranged the ceasefire?

>Because someone they don't respect told them to?
>Why would you think people who have the power not to listen would?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw

>It's another for the military to do so.
Militaries follow orders from the civilian government. They are not autonomous in any part of the world.

>That's totally different from germany which was beaten and broken to the point they had no means left to fight back.
Both Germany and Japan still had considerable armed forces left to continue their respective wars, especially the latter. Wars end when the political leadership loses the will to pursue it any further.

You never answered about anything I said, just went on a retarded rant about how, in some fantastical way, Zeon's armed forces would cease to follow orders against all logic in that regard. Every formal army in history has, by and large, accepted terms of surrender if and when they come. Stragglers in the style of, say, the Forest Brothers, are insignificant as anything other than somewhat forgotten patches of history.

>>23448979
In the old EU, it was just the extreme selfishness that nobody wanted to take one for the team nor gamble on the chance the Emperor or Vader made it out alive. They just assumed they died.
>>23450468
Battle meditation doesn't do that. In practice, it's a coordination and morale buff and a similar debuff to your enemies. The sudden loss may cause demoralization but it's more like losing a feeling you can't explain rather than any loss or gaining function.
>>23450672
>>23450710
Germany and Japan both knew they were fucked for various reasons and had differing responses. Hitler had a crazy ass
>burn everything
plan nobody followed. Japan knew they had to surrender but fought longer for better surrender conditions like retaining their emperor who was scared shitless by various hardliners who'd even assassinate him.

>>23450710
>Wars end when the political leadership loses the will to pursue it any further.
Wars end when one side no longer has the will or ability to continue it. Zeon had both, so they did. Talking heads only have so much power. A politician saying ok guys let's stop now is meaningless if no one else agrees. What's he gonna do? Send the military to stop the military?

>>23450623
>You are telling me there wasn't a single general left on all of Zeon that would've become the interim commander in chief? Nobody at all?

The death of the entire Zabi family is the equivalent of the Emperor dying during WW2. The Emperor was the only one with recognized authority to force EVERYONE to stand down and surrender. Generals and Admirals do not have that.

During WW2, all the different military Japanese military branches hated eachother. They often competed for resources and resisted the idea of cooperation. Most branches of the WW2 Japanese military operated independently. The idea of combined arms warfare didn't exist in Japan like it did in the West. Branches didn't work together.

Even basic resupply missions was done with hate. There are stories of Japanese navy supply ships refusing to dock their ships on islands occupied by the Japanese army. Instead the supply ships would pull up close to the island, then dump the supplies in the nearby water. Forcing the Army to swim in the ocean to come get their supplies while the Navy sailors laughed at them.

>>23446754
>>23446755
It is on my to-do list, but I'm selling my house at the moment so quite busy. Also v24 isn't out in my country for a couple of months. So, they will be done, but who knows how soon.

>>23450782
>>23450785
nta but a few militant zeon members tried to stop Darcia BECAUSE him signing the ceasefire would mean majority of the zeon forces hang up their arms, if nobody was going to listen to him then nobody would even care to stop him.

Anyone who didn't want to side with the Republic Of Zeon just left on Axis, which was usually families and non combatants, the only people really trying to continue the war just because was some fucking random scattered remnants in the middle of nowhere and Delaz's single fleet which got no backing from any other zeon faction

>>23447796
Stories focusing entirely on a minor or side character not doing much in particular

>>23449013
>The recent mangas and databooks have used that ambiguity to say that Zeon had plenty of strength left, but it was spread across space. The Federation had struck too quickly at the end of the war before the Zeon Military could summon more ships and create an even more robust defense. Many Zeon ships were too far away when the battle of ABQ happened.
That honestly seems really off since after solomon fell, Zeon consolidated their remaining space power at A Baoa Qu and Granada since the Federation would have to go through one of those two to get to Side 3. But why didn't the Feddies just go around them? Space is 3 dimensional. Shut up.
Once Zeon confirmed A Baoa Qu was the target, the Granada forces moved to their forces to A Baoa Qu outside what I assume was their normal defense forces. Which is why Kycilia was there given Granada was her base of operations.
And while the earth sphere is vast, there's only so many places for Zeon to control given the One Week Battle's objective was to destroy and deny the Federation of their base of operations in space. Meaning the only major points left were Side 3, 6 and 7. The moon, A Baoa Qu, Salomon and Luna II. Yeah, yeah Pezun and Axis existed too, but that's after the fact.

Although you do bring up an interesting point of how long it takes to travel between Lagrange points, so if it's on the slow end there is that chance that some forces weren't able to make it on time. I was under the impression that's not the case though.

>>23449013
>Imagine being a Captain on a Zeon ship near Side 4. You hear a report of the Federation launching a sudden attack on Solomon. You order your ship to turn around and travel to ABQ. But a few days later by the time your arrive, The Federation has taken both Solomon AND ABQ. Everything is total chaos. All your military leaders are dead. No one has any answers or orders. The Chain of Command is unclear. Total panic and shock. Wtf just happened? Now you have to make a decision.
First off if a Musai arrived late and found out A Baoa Qu was lost, they were going to find out from the Federation so their only choice would be to disarm or get blown to hell. Assuming they didn't find out sooner because Minovsky particles interference was over. Also the chain of command, while can be put in shock if you lose your leadership, can recover defending on how well trained the officer class is where a high-ranking officer tanks over and assuming they aren't challenged by someone else. But given's Zeon's propensity to descend into back stabbing and self interest, that's a highly probable outcome. Although for the most part, you saw people making the choices you listed out in MS IGLOO after contact with command was lost. I.E. one Zeon fleet withdrawing from the battle and passing by the 603rd to return to Side 3, or people like Von Kuspen who opted to die on the battlefield protecting those who were under his command because he knew he didn't have a place in the new world. But for the most part outside of Axis and Delaz Fleet, most of Zeon's main forces respected the armistice and the reformation of the Republic of Zeon. But given someone can always write 'Actually there was this other secret Zeon fleet that was still fighting the good fight', it's not set in stone.

>>23452738
>But for the most part outside of Axis and Delaz Fleet, most of Zeon's main forces respected the armistice and the reformation of the Republic of Zeon.
It wasn't about respecting the Treaty. It was more about that Zeon had no leader to rally behind (Except Mineva) and unify all the military factions. So it was better to just end the war. Remember that Zeon was basically a Monarchy. Not a Democracy. If the entire Royal family suddenly died, then everything falls into chaos.

Even if military wanted to keep fighting, there's the huge question of who is in charge and resource allocation. Giren and Kycillia were deciding all that previously. Now you have Admirals and Generals all arguing about who should get mobile suits, ships, and other supplies. Not a single person having true authority and political military factions (Giren Faction vs Dozle Faction vs Kycillia faction) all fighting eachother. Total chaos. Best to just end the war.

>>23452738
>But for the most part outside of Axis and Delaz Fleet, most of Zeon's main forces respected the armistice and the reformation of the Republic of Zeon
Axis and delaz WERE most of zeon's main forces, at least what was left. The republic is mostly civis and there wasn't a whole lot to disarm.

>>23452813
And then there's also Mars Zeon but nobody really cared about them. Not even the Feds until Oldsmobile happened.

>>23452813
>Axis and delaz WERE most of zeon's main forces, at least what was left. The republic is mostly civis and there wasn't a whole lot to disarm.
No. They were just the most hardcore Zabi loyalists. All the hard liners left for Axis.

The Republic of Zeon still had their own military. We see their ships during Zeta Gundam. They were just outdated and stayed out of the conflict.

>>23452813
Based on lore a lot of people who went to Axis weren't combatants, Republic of Zeon has a active military and Delaz's fleet is supposed to be...one fleet

>>23452778
>It was more about that Zeon had no leader to rally behind
Which was my point when I mentioned Zeon's leadership's propensity to descend into back stabbing and self interest. Heck , even the Zabis, the unifying leadership as you said, had their own factions and it was fractured already, I.E. Delaz had his fleet withdraw from the battle after he got news that Gihren was killed and immediately assumed it was Kycilia that was behind it.
Meanwhile Origin took it a step further and had Zeon's forces descend into a Civil War while the battle was still going on.

But there's still a possibility a surviving Admiral or ranking officer being able to coordinate enough of the remaining Zeon fleets to keep fighting. The real issue was they had no time since the Federation took A Baoa Qu and was going to muster their remaining forces to attack Side 3. Maybe in an alternate timeline where the Zabis were all killed at Solomon and Zeon still had a last line of defense to protect them, this scenario could have played out, but that's not the case.

>>23456942
Didn't the Federation show up at Granada and, without Kycillia being there, the cowardly Admiral leading the quickly signed a Treaty because he didn't want to fight? Then the Federation claimed that treaty represented all of Zeon. While many Zeon people and military leaders balked at such nonsense. It's like flying to Hawaii and the Governor of Hawaii signs a peace treaty of behalf of all the United States. No wonder Delaz laughed at it and said it was signed by cowards.

>>23456988
Source?

>>23456988
>>23457056
I believe he's confusing a side story where the Prime Minister of Zeon, Darcia Bakharo went to Granada to negotiate the peace treaty with the Federation, and he was attacked on route by Zeon forces who wanted to keep fighting.

>Io ends up with the girl and newtype sister
>Guntank crew end up fine and training new soldiers
Based as fuck ending

>>23440663
Is it though?
In GG, during revil’s campaign he comes back by the near end of stardust and swears his allegiance to you. You can choose to side with Blex or Jamitov, but the game almost certainly encourages you join Blex.

As a result, you get AEUG-aligned Scirocco

>>23460974
Io won.
Daryl really did die for nothing

>>23446813
It is this alone as to why I never understand the logic of liking Char in the first place. All this Charwank and worship is dumb. He’s a complex character and main antagonist sure, but he’s literally a bitch. Everyone acts like he’s such a good pilot when he hasn’t really accomplished shit since MSG. He’s a fuckin hack and not even the best Zeon pilot

>>23461895
>Daryl really did die for nothing
Manga isn't over. We are still getting epilogue chapters.

>>23446813
>>23461929
You two aren't even talking about the same things.

>>23460974
>best girl survives
>keep kicking asses in a gundamn guntank
Indeed

You all know what's going to happen right? What its all building up to...

-Final. Chapter.

-Daryl is revealed alive. Living peacefully somewhere. Possibly with reformed Karla (maybe).

Daryl anon in this thread goes nuts. He screams about how much he hates Thunderbolt. Daryl should be dead. Blah blah blah.

I. can't. wait.

Kekekeke

>>23462159
>He screams about how much he hates Thunderbolt. Daryl should be dead. Blah blah blah.

This crap again? You already did your sperging in >>23442822. This person you are talking about does not exist anywhere except your fucked up imagination. Why don't you post links to the archive or something that prove the existence of this supposed "daryl hater"?
I've seen more dislike against Io and his "adrenaline junkie rich kid" shtick than Daryl, a guy with worse luck than Saji Crossroad. At least the latter survived the alien attack with all four limbs.

>>23463379
You aren't fooling anyone.

>>23463419
ENOUGH OF YOUR SCHIZOPOSTING.
Put up the evidence of a "daryl hater" or STFU.

>>23462139
Full page

>>23463442
>Put up the evidence
Why? You are him.

>>23463507
>Why?
Fuck off, shitposting schizo. You ruined this thread already with your screeching.

>>23463379
What a triggered response. Dude relax. Either you are the anon who makes posts constantly making fun of Daryl or you aren't. But you might as well be with this triggered reply.

>>23463537
>What a triggered response. Dude relax.
You have ruined multiple Thunderbolt threads with your incessant nonsense. Give it a fucking rest, already.

>>23463379
>prove the existence of this supposed "daryl hater"?
It's crazy that you care about this shit.

>>23463442
Oh so your new strategy is to pretend you aren't the Daryl hater, and then demand others waste their time going through archives to show posts you can easily look up yourself. Hmm...I give you 4/10. It's a lot of work just to shift the conversation and shift goalposts

>>23463565
>>23463379
Would you please stop? Nobody fucking cares.

>>23460974
Who cares about this crap? Focus on what's relevant:
>Anaheim was supplying the monks with gear all along
>Lambert, Andy Wellington's robotic pillar companions that also piloted the Big Zams, aren't actually artificial intelligence, but rather cloned brains from a Newtype.
>The Lambert souls gather in "Newtype space" to thank Andy for saving them
>Bianca tells Io that she will join the Titans, mostly out of personal ambition to fight (and die) piloting the most kickass MS. Dialogue hints that she is NOT romantically involved with Io.

>>23460974
Who cares about this crap? Focus on what's relevant:
>Anaheim was supplying the monks with gear all along
>Lambert, Andy Wellington's robotic pillar companions that also piloted the Big Zams, aren't actually artificial intelligence, but rather cloned brains from a Newtype test subject.
>Aided by Lily and Callisto (the Levan Fu head clone in the Perfect Zeong), the Lambert souls gather in "Newtype space" to thank Andy for saving them
>Von Braun's main dome is depicted as "space Abu Dhabi": a cozy playground for the elite. Io is considered as their saviour.
>Bianca tells Io that she will join the Titans, mostly out of personal ambition to fight (and die) against a powerful enemy while piloting the most kickass MS. Dialogue hints that she is NOT romantically involved with Io.

>>23463596
The interesting part is this, showing Lily with what seems to be Callisto's soul in the Beyond Time.
Unlike all the other epilogue chapters that close the narrative threads for good with a big "—END—" at the end of each, this one reads "To Be Continued" (text says there are two more chapters coming before Thunderbolt ends).

>>23463596
>Dialogue hints that she is NOT romantically involved with Io.
She already kissed him.

>>23463640
A kiss doesn't mean romantic relationship all the time anon

>>23463803
They banged.

>>23463834
I may stand corrected, really should get to reading the whole thing

>>23463596
I'm just spitballing here, but the idea of "Psycommu is actually wetware" is straight from Kobayashi's Solomon Express.

>>23440695
>literally written in multiple databooks

You're a faggot if you read databooks. What are you a third grader?

>>23441557
>calm your autism.

The irony. One furious autist accusing someone else of being autistic

>>23464000
>>23464016
Same fucking (reddit-spacing) faggot.

>>23463447
>fuck yeah Guntank

>Actually isn't ableist
>Just wanted to ad hominem a Zeon soldier entire time
What an asshole

>>23477657
This makes no sense. If the technology exists to make incredibly good artificial limbs, then why is Daryl stuck with incredibly shitty peg arms and legs? Does the author not realize this problem?

>>23477657
>Daryl doesn't hate disgusting crippled retards after all

I feel betrayed. I wish this happened during that time that Captain America said "Hail Hydra" in whatever comic it was.

"I actually don't mind cripples" is funny as all hell

>>23477679
His limbs are actually more advanced in a way. They were designed for his Psycho Zaku cockpit. But as a result, they don't go well with the daily life convienience.

Considering this as an alternative UC, would be funny if the Titans just stays fancy and never deflected from Federation until the end.