Thread 23448288

Overall, was the Strike a good mobile suit or was it a clunky inefficient mess being carried by Kira/Archangel?

>>23448288 (OP)
it's a hero character so by default it's good unless they invent a flaw for it

>>23448288 (OP)
It was good enough to base the Alliance's entire fleet of mass-produced mobile suits off of it and continue to improve on its concept.
But it was also carried by Jesus Yamato to heights it wouldn't have reached on its own.

>>23448328
To be fair, it's not like the Alliance had many other options at the time. That said, ZAFT copied the Strike's homework too with the Impulse and Zaku Warrior series.

>>23448288 (OP)
It's a general purpose MS with packs as its main feature. It served its purpose as a general all purpose suit - which was succeeded with the Impulse, and then the Destiny Gundam.

It's an all purpose suit which are almost always superior to gimmick weapon ones due to the rules of the media. So yeah it was good.

>>23448288 (OP)
Both are true. The Strike was a good MS that Kira did carry quite a bit, but its versatility helped him and the Archangel survive. If ZAFT had stolen the Strike and left the Duel, the Strike wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective.
There is a reason that the ultimate EA grunt, the Windam, is lauded just for being the perfect mass-production Strike.

>>23448496
>There is a reason that the ultimate EA grunt, the Windam, is lauded just for being the perfect mass-production Strike.
not with those fucked up shoulders

>>23448288 (OP)
It was so good that Tomino copied it's whole pack swap thing with the G-Self.

>>23448775
Tomino has no originality just copying

>>23448288 (OP)
Base strike was a retarded shitty design, but it was never intended to be used in the base form so whatever. Sword strike was cool but non-practical. The other two standard packs were perfectly reasonable designs, although I do think that the saber probably ought to have been part of the core design rather than relegated only to aile or that the launcher should have had some form of fallback melee other than the shitty daggers all forms had and kungfu games give it. Perhaps some form of bayonet.

Strike was great for its time, if Zaft didnt steal the 4 comparable suits they would have gotten destroyed even without Kira.

The Strike is THE most influential design in CE.

It was the base of which ALL of EA's mass-production MS was based on with its multirole loadout concept.
Even ZAFT adopted the same concept with the ZAKU Warrior, and had their own Strike clone in the form of the Impulse.
ORB as well took inspiration from it with the Akatsuki having multiple loadout options.

>>23448496
>If ZAFT had stolen the Strike and left the Duel, the Strike wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective.
In that hypothetical situation I believe it would have been a very similar situation for the 2 Gundams.
ZAFT wouldn't have access to the Striker Packs which were loaded on the Archangel, so they would have to make their own add-on equipment for Strike a la the Assault Shroud. But the different loadout capability of the Strike would still be a mainstay that ZAFT would adopt.
While the Archangel crew would most likely have to do modifications to the Duel in order to be able to fit the Striker Packs onto the Duel, essentially converting the Duel into a pseudo-Strike. This would most likely still lead to the EA adopting the Strike's multirole loadout concept as the effectiveness of the Striker Packs on the modified Duel would have proven the concept for them.

>>23448288 (OP)
It was kind of both. Yes it was a very good mobile suit, but it was also very, very much carried by Kira Jesus Yamato

What about the Perfect Strike?

>>23448288 (OP)
Its OS was a mess so it was only made good by Kira

>>23449006
The Alteisen of SEED

>>23448475
>all purpose suit which are almost always superior to gimmick weapon ones due to the rules of the media
Elaborate?

>>23449006
Something that didn't exist except on paper until it was retconned in.

>>23449006
>Most scenes of it are just the Aile Strike with new body parts

But, the PS does fit with Mu better

How do we feel about the Dragoon Strike?

>>23449041
Even with extra battery packs built into the Striker pack, could the Strike Gundam afford enough juice to power DRAGOONs?

>>23449041
I appreciate more Strike packs.

>>23449006
Prototype Destiny

>>23449006
>>23449041

The Perfect Strike Freedom

>>23449041
Would like it better if I could actually see it without engaging with a shit ass mobage Gacha

>>23449009
>Elaborate?
NTA but heroes always get the "generic" mech that can do it. The hero can't be too gimmicky and potentially one note.

>>23448436
>which was succeeded with the Impulse, and then the Destiny Gundam.

Why the fuck the presumed successor is created by Zaft and not by the Earth Alliance? Zaft never obtained the data of Strike and Kira.It's weird that they make an improved version of a Gundam they never really looked into it.

But even the creation of the Freedom and Justice makes no sense. Zaft had no reason to create those two mobile suits with that design.

>>23449180
>Zaft never obtained the data of Strike and Kira
They had plenty of data from just fighting it. Plus the Duel is its prototype. The Duel AS is basically a striker pack. And the Calamity is the Strike's legitimate successor. Same role and same multi-role platform, but they got rid of the striker pack system and the Calamity Gundams just share the same development platform.

>>23449174
Not quite so even in mainstream Gundam series
Judau had slow clunky powerhouse MS he swapped for the nimble Zeta sometimes
Setsuna and Mika had melee focus MS
When you think about it, Strike and Impulse were anti-generic/anti-generalist until the Perfect/Destiny Pack-packs, same for AGE Gundams of most Wears, including their final Wears

>>23449126
I liked this a lot more than the suits Kira gets in Seed Freedom.

>>23448924
Okay fair, bad example.

>>23449006
Not great. It sacrifices too much from each pack.

>>23449009
The hero has to be on the back foot and the hero has to make the fight exciting and the hero has to win. This is almost always done via the hero having basic equipment and having to work around and develop a counter to the villains flashy gimmick rather than having the flashy gimmick and spamming it themself. IE: It's a more visually exciting fight if someone is flying around dodging the remote weapons and shooting them down before finishing off the main body than having the remote weapons just slaughter the enemy which means the hero can't have the gimmick since the hero has to win.

>>23449180
>Zaft never obtained the data of Strike and Kira

Yes they did. They acquired the data from the computers of the other GAT-X units they stole as shown when Athrun presents all the data to the Supreme Council. However that episode was mostly a clip show so it was cut from the Remaster. That's also why in Destiny it's suspect that the Impulse was deleted from the other Gundam's computer before it was stolen as Sting mentions.

>>23448924
>ZAFT wouldn't have access to the Striker Packs which were loaded on the Archangel

They might have been able to reproduce them from scratch through the data they had similar to how they were able to build a brand new Duel arm and rifle when it lost them on it's first deployment

>>23449662
>That's also why in Destiny it's suspect that the Impulse was deleted from the other Gundam's computer before it was stolen as Sting mentions.
I never thought anything of that, but now that you mention it. Implying that Durandal may have intended for those three to get stolen?

>>23449657
Sensible. It's more mecha-nistically fun if the protag has a gimmick that's good for countering something specific or creating a chance opening, however.

>>23449708
Maybe but then you run into the cliche "the hero activates their gimmick, time for them to instawin" like how most of late 00 was just waiting for Trans Am to come on and then Setsuna turned things around.

>>23449704
People suspected it from day one, but like the "Well there was never official proof he sent those assassins" at least until Freedom came out, it never got brought up in show so people ignored it.

>>23448496
>If ZAFT had stolen the Strike and left the Duel, the Strike wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective.
Because it would've only had two knives and the headmounted guns.

>>23449770
>Yzak steals the Strike and later goes up against Kira in the Duel
>has a "that's all this thing has?!" moment mid-battle
>Kira rams a beam saber up his ass

>>23449780
I mean they would have known that ahead of time and either planned accordingly or just not deployed the Strike. Kira was the only one figuring out his MS completely on the fly since he'd never piloted one before. Athrun and friends already checked out all their capabilities before using them since they're pros.

>>23449006
Not super practical but very cool.

>>23449006
>>23449922
It weighs too much and that weight is wildly unbalanced. It would actually probably be a better fit for space combat, as the Aile's thrusters could have allowed it to maneuver at a comparable level to the Sword or Strike on their own, just with more combat options available to it. Using it under gravity for its only deployment seems like a worst-case scenario.

>>23449949
It was deployed in Orb expecting to have to kill lots and lots of Daggers pretty quickly. They weren't expecting the Druggies to be a thing yet.

>>23449059
It has Strike Rouge's power efficiency systems which probably helped.

>>23449770
I suspect that there's maintenance data on the MS's computer that helps hangar crews to do upkeep and the like. After all, in theory the four Gundams that ZAFT stole would need entire different supply chains and specially manufactured spare parts to keep them operational, particularly if we assume that the EA-designed launchers and gatlings can't load ZAFT missiles and bullets. That, on top of them regularly losing limbs and weapons and still being able to be returned to top fighting condition.

My guess is that if ZAFT had stolen the Strike, they might have been able to eventually manufacture the Striker Packs at home and fully outfit it. They just wouldn't have had a dedicated hangar for it and switching packs probably would take them at least tens of minutes instead of the seconds or handful of minutes required on the Archangel.

>>23448288 (OP)
Was Kira actually good in the Strike? I feel like he's making the best he can do with the Strike, but once getting the Freedom line of MS, he was now untouchable.

>>23450185
He was tearing through MS left and right in the Strike. He was more successful at fighting named pilots in the Strike than in the Freedom during SEED with 4 Ace defeats (Miguel Andy Morassium and Nicol) to only Rau with Freedom. All Freedom did was let him take out grunts faster and easier.

>>23448475
Ask me how I can tell the only giant robot anime you've watched is Gundam.

>>23450268
Name one where that isn't the case. Plus that's just universal to almost all media, including western stuff. How many superheroes are all rounders while their enemies have the gimmick powers?

>>23450267
Rau was a much stronger opponent than the others.

>>23450274
Duel was the general purpose Gundam.
Strike was the one with the strongest gimmick.

>>23450283
Which gimmick would you place next to the Strike? For my money, it's the Blitz. Just a shame they didn't know better than to give it to a piano player.

>>23450283
Aegis was the one with the strongest gimmick. Strike just had a variable set up and defaulted to the basic Aile pack most of the time. Duel was the bare bones one until the Assault Shroud was made.

>>23448288 (OP)
For a proof of concept prototype? It was probably the best they could get because of the versatility. Arguably the only one better they could've gotten out of the 5 is the Blitz for no reason other than being able to campy out at Artemis longer in safety without the shield being penetrated. It's versatile enough that ZAFT was so butthurt they created the Impulse just so they can one-up the Strike. The Strike Rogue is used into Destiny and Freedom. The Strike design got made into the Strike Dagger, 105 Dagger, and onward. It's a success.

>>23450146
>After all, in theory the four Gundams that ZAFT stole would need entire different supply chains and specially manufactured spare parts to keep them operational
Supposedly the idea is that the 100 series (Strike, Duel, Buster, Calamity) share a basic frame schema, as does the 200 series (Blitz, Forbidden). The 300 series (Aegis, Raider) is entirely experimental transformable shit.

>>23450289
This, Aegis by itself is an all-rounder that also happens to pack a beam cannon to match the Launcher Strike's Agni and has quad beam sabers to be more of a threat up close than just the basic saber+shield combination. It has the highest general performance but would need a good pilot to make the most of it. The Aegis never had an MP Dagger variant and that's probably because at the time there wasn't really a way to make a cheap transformable unit.

Strike is a middle of the road option, enhanced performance with the packs and it even did some minor aerial fighting, although it eventually has to drop down since it can't sustain flight. Duel was the most basic-bitch model, the base version would probably rate a bit lower performing than Aile Strike.

It's clearly a fundamentally solid mobile suit in it's own right given it (and it's Duel and Buster brothers) still remain completely capable front line combat suits years after technology has long advanced past it just with some incremental upgrades/updates

Once Rogue's improvements are backported to it, it's biggest flaws/weaknesses are basically all addressed. It's no longer a Super Weapon but most things aren't.

>>23450185
He wasn't terrible but also wasn't anything special. The freedom has a bunch of targeting systems in it though, which really ramped up his performance since the computer did a lot of the work for him.

>>23450185
By the Turning Point, I'd say he was just plain good. He was even getting comfortable enough to start working out a prototype disabling style.
Prior to that, leaning a bit on the suit's specs and a lot on moments of creativity/ technical know how.

>>23450401
>The Strike design got made into the Strike Dagger
I feel like the Strike is almost irrelevant to the Strike Dagger given that latter was simplified to the point of not even being able to use striker packs. Could have just as easily been the maximum economy model of the Duel/Long Daggers and you would barely tell the difference.

>>23450415
Yes, but the point is that ZAFT didn't have a production line for ANY of the parts. That implies that any repaired damage was being done with custom machined parts made on the ship that was carrying them.

>>23450588
>>23450185
Unfortunately his performance is dictated by the plot, so there are moments of decent ace-level piloting genius involving incredible accuracy while he's in the Strike, and then you get other scenes where he's dumb as a doornail ineffectively shooting at the Destroy Gundam's shields or defending himself using a beam saber with jedi-level of control and reaction when the scene calls for it. As for Strike Rouge, he did okay when outnumbered like 25 to 1 or something.

The fact the name of the successor of its successor was just its name + name of the suit our messiah got after it should be enough

>>23450436
>Aegis by itself is an all-rounder that also happens to pack a beam cannon to match the Launcher Strike's Agni

Aegis's Scylla is 580mm to the Agni's 320mm meaning it's even more powerful and unlike the Strike it doesn't need to dump it's sabers and rifle to carry it since it's built into the frame. For that matter it's rifle is also bigger and more powerful than the Strike's although only slightly. Still though it's the strongest armed of the G Project suits pound for pound.

>>23450415
Yeah the 100 series is the standard frame, the 200 series is designed to work with Mirage Colloid and the 300 series has a variable frame for flight modes.

>>23450775
>raider
>variable frame
More like variable knees.

>>23449006
Too much additional weight result in it not being as fast and mobile as Aile Strike. Additional bulkiness limit the range of motion of the Anti-ship Sword. Launcher attachment parts on the right should should also decrease the swing speed of the Anti-ship Sword.

>>23450677
It was but the Strike Daggers are a stopgap
>WE NEED MORE MS ASAP
while 105s were the "true" mass production unit with Striker Packs. The whole deal was testing the backpack system anyway.
>>23450687
Like the Assault Shroud.

>>23450401
It's also the source of all the backpacks in CE. Even ZAFT thought that shit was good and had ZAKU Warriors and the Impulse with them. Then the Strike Freedom could detach its back for the Mighty Strike Freedom, whose back was made for the Rising Freedom in the first place.

The Strike's a pioneer of a concept everyone and everyone's mom uses. OMNI, ZAFT, Orb, everyone uses it. It's got a legacy unlike anyone else in CE.

>>23448288 (OP)
It was an overloaded gimmick that happened to work.

>>23452318
>Overloaded
How so?

>>23452325
At the time, the prototype Gundams were pretty drastically over-engineered, Strike in particular's key feature was basically being equipped to perform the tasks of three of the other units on demand
It why when ZAFT got their hands on a bunch of them the EA people were like "we built these things to try and become equals with Coordinators but put a Coordinator in them and they become literal superweapons"

Also why when the time for mass production came, the end product was a further stripped down version of it's most basic form. Orb's process was very similar and came to the same conclusions too, mostly.

>>23449041
I think this is the first I've seen anyone talk about recollection here. How did everyone like it?

>>23453549
Was mostly meh and only made the timeline even more dumb. Didn't care for it. Dragoon Strike is pretty cool I guess.

>>23448288 (OP)
It basically formed the basis of all pack systems going forward after the first war.
In other words it's the most successful Gundam in CE.

>>23453734
You mean the Athrun stuff, right? I didn't care for that much either. I have to admit I did like the Kira campaign though.

>>23453734
>made the timeline even more dumb
How? What happened?

>>23448288 (OP)
Genuinely shit without an OS rewrite by Jesus, the modular weapons system had issues, and the battery life was dogshit

>>23454705
As I understand it, it inserts a smaller scale conflict post Seed and pre Destiny against the remnants of Patrick Zala's faction of ZAFT who break away rather than accept the cease fire

>>23454714
Why is that dumb? Am I missing something?

>>23454718
Not that guy but I found it mostly forgettable. As a bunch of game-exclusive cutscenes and very little animated footage, it doesn't add much to the overall plot of Seed and Destiny. it's more of an excuse to introduce two game original designs, a Strike Gundam with DRAGOON striker pack and a prototype Murasame.

Kira cries about being unable to save the main antagonist from committing suicide with a nuke. That's his entire arc in this story. Athrun gets bothered about people using both his father's name and his own name to rally butthurt Zala-supporting extremists and try to nuke an EA base, but he does manage to stop the nukes. The temporary leader of PLANT, Eileen Canaver, gets a minor spotlight role as actual decent human being who barely manages to negotiate a non-bullshit and balanced peace treaty between EA and PLANT while under threat of assassination, and for her trouble she becomes politically unpopular and loses her position for not attempting to fuck the EA over and demand a peace treaty that favors coordinators.

Bonus stupid fact: Yes, I know the model number even says MBF-03, but the DRAGOON Strike is specifically the same Strike that Mwu was killed in. Mind you, this same unit also survived the Aegis suicide bomb. Somehow the Strike just can't die, and the wreckage was in good enough shape to reuse. No, they apparently didn't find Mwu's body, I don't know how the fuck that works.

>>23450289
>>23450436
Aegis was an over complicated and overenginwered MS which is why the Earth Alliance simplified it with the Raider and ZAFT would simplify it with the Savior.

>>23454752
Even with the Raider available, the Rosso Aegis is still a thing and doubles down on the number of silly things it can do with its transformation. It has a fuckstupid sitting mode where it walks on four legs.

Don't like the show but man do I love the Strike Gundam and it's packages. The Freedom and it's upgrades are a visual downgrade but it serves the same purpose the RX-78 does in UC but a bit better.

>>23448293
First post? Best post.

The most likely reason that the Earth Alliance used the Strike as their base line for developing mass production suits was probably because they were able to gather a lot of combat data from Kira piloting it during first half of SEED. Kira had pushed that suit to its absolute limit in terms of performance and when the Archangel arrived in Alaska the Earth Alliance probably data mined the shit out of that ship and mobile suit. By, contrast they probably had very little combat data on the other GAT series that were stolen so it makes sense that they wouldn't use any of them as their base line suit for development/mass production.

>>23454741
>Yes, I know the model number even says MBF-03, but the DRAGOON Strike is specifically the same Strike that Mwu was killed in

Only the torso. They specifically rebuilt the remains with Strike Rouge parts, which is why the headcrest and eyes are different.

>>23454705
It changes things so that between the year and change between seed and destiny Kira and friends spent a large part of it still working behind the scenes which makes the idea that Durandal and Logos took them all by surprise even more ridiculous than if they all immediately went into hiding post SEED.

>>23456392
??? they're literally not still working, the first fucking thing they do in recollection is part ways and don't stay in constant communication. athrun went with cagalli to go back to orb to rebuild. kira and lacus are futzing around in space because it's not like clyne faction staged a political coup to take over PLANT, lacus can't go home without PLANT\ZAFT detaining them all for stealing the freedom and eternal. the only reason they find out shiva's plot is not because they're working as peacekeepers, but because they happened to be close enough to a distress signal and went to go help out but end up running into the bad guys. they don't involve athrun until they find out that nukes were transported to earth.

>which makes the idea that Durandal and Logos took them all by surprise even more ridiculous than if they all immediately went into hiding post SEED.
shiva's group is separate from durandal and logos. just because they end up foiling shiva's plot doesn't mean they're going to discover anything to do with durandal or logos at this point in the timeline

>>23449770
>>23449780
Well they were planning on grabbing the strike too. Just that the hijacker kisses a bullet
I think you see him just before athrun rushes Kira with a knife
So the only way they wouldn’t have gotten the Duel is if Yzak is the one who dies instead

Why the hell is no one talking about the new Athrun Zgok UR?

>>23457500
Because this is a Strike thread, retard.

>>23457500
You're mistaking G Gen with a good game lil bro

>>23457500
Because you made it up

>>23457500
Fuck you Eternal shill

>>23449770
ZAFT would probably have made some sort of Assault Shroud/IWSP striker pack for the Strike if they stole it instead of the Duel

>>23448288 (OP)
>clunky inefficient mess
Odd way to spell "Calamity, Forbidden, and Raider" the initial five gundams were fine for what they did.

>>23448288 (OP)
It wasn't a good mobile suit.


It was the best.

>>23459588
The Druggie trio Gundam's were monsters that racked up a ton of kills. They were even able to match Freedom and Justice despite them being much more powerful than them.

>>23463971
Was that really the suit or was it the pilots? On another note, how do the bendy beams on the Forbidden work? Is it just angling shots against its shield, or did they install the Geschmeidig Panzer into the weapons themselves?

>>23464081
I believe it uses the same trick that lets it curve it's own shots to also aim the reflected beams.

>>23464081
It was the suits. The druggie pilots were comically brutish incompetent morons who shot at each other at the worst of times and still managed to be a massive threat to the two strongest Gundam's in the show. If the Gundam's had not completely insane pilots they'd probably have been even more effective

>>23464081
>>23464105
All of the pilots are as skilled as the plot dictates. It also determines when they die, so you get silly moments like readying your beam saber so you can kick them for miniscule damage.

>>23464145
I always chalked that up to Kira and Athrun overestimating just how much effort they'd need to put into fighting the druggies since they're canonically inconsistent af. That said, even if they were going to try for that strategy, it was a missed opportunity for the Justice not to whip out it's own beam saber.

>>23464172
>it was a missed opportunity for the Justice not to whip out it's own beam saber.
But it does have its saber out?

>>23464204
You know what I mean, Anon. He should have gone for a swing with that thing.

>>23464204
Had to make this

>>23464204
>mfw all that sand

>>23464145
>>23464172
Like Fukuda said, the Druggies are covering for eachother. There's another shot where we see everyone looking at Freedom and Justice fighting the Druggies and it looks like dots in the sky clashing at superhuman speed. Everyone was amazed they were moving so fast.

You stop and try to deliver a killing blow against one of the Druggies, but the others will shoot at you while your stopped. The Druggies don't even care if they kill eachother if it means kill the enemy. The several seconds it would take to kill Raider with a beam saber (the saber does take a few seconds to melt the armor of the cockpit) means Calamity would shoot Justice. Kira and Athrun had to learn through repeated battles that the only way to beat the Druggies was to split them up.

Which is what Fukuda wanted to emphasize and how the Druggies were defeated in the end. They all got split up from eachother, couldn't cover each other's weaknesses, and got killed.

>>23448288 (OP)
It always bothered me that the Strike Gundam was never factored in to the development of the Freedom Gundam. The Striker Packs that the Strike Gundam had received I think would've tied it neatly to the development history of the Freedom Gundam rather than the latter being based on the other four stolen Gundams. It would've started with Kira in the Strike Gundam alternating between the Aile, Sword and Launcher Striker pack and then eventually combines all three into the Perfect Strike. Kira uses it from then on but it would prove to be too clunky and unwieldly, this would be the perfect opportunity for EA to obtain combat data from the Perfect Strike and create the IWSP pack that consolidates all the 3 Striker Packs into one. Kira would continue to use the Strike Gundam with the IWSP pack and get even more mileage with it until he gets captured by ZAFT (right around the time when Tolle gets killed and Athrun and Kira duke it out but this time Athrun takes advantage of Kira's grief to capture him instead). This is where ZAFT would reverse-engineered the IWSP Strike and create the Freedom Gundam which would've been the Strike Gundam but with the IWSP fully integrated into it after which Kira would escape with it.

>>23464399
Man I’m glad you didn’t write this holy shit

>>23464399
The best you will get is Strike Noir. It combines Sword Strike with its phase shift swords, Aile Strike with its booster backpack and beam pistols, and Launcher Strike with it's linear guns/ machine guns/grenades.

>>23464399
Might as well give Kira the Destiny

Speaking of the Freedom, do we know who the original intended pilot was supposed to be?

>>23464499
I'm more interested in the other direction, do we know anything about Rusty, the guy who was going to take the Strike? Mainly I've always been curious if he was also the kid of somebody important to help fill out the nepotism squad or not. IIRC Athrun was upset about him dying for a few minutes, so he clearly didn't play the piano enough.

>>23464551
This shit is from the wiki, so take it with half a grain of salt. Apparently, he was also the son of some supreme council member, but his parents split up and he took his mother's name. The novels allegedly say he was the glue keeping the group together as a middle ground between the sentiments of Athrun/Nicol and the more outgoing nature of Yzak/Dearka. Has anyone read the SEED novels here? Have they even been translated?

>>23464399
The Strike influenced their designs. It's speculated their beam rifles are based more on the Strike's rifle than the Duel's and definitely not any of the other Gundams' weapons. And the Justice's Fatum was inspired by the Aile Striker's concept, even if it's just a Guul on steroids.

>>23464499
Probably Yzak. The ZAFT Gundams are basically ace GuAIZs. A number of sources suggest the GuAIZ, after receiving tech from the stolen Gundams, was redeveloped into a super high-end MS but the cost got pared down for mass production. The Gundams are based on the GuAIZ. This is repeated over and over again. The MG 1.0 Freedom manual outright say the chasses of the Freedom and Justice are directly based on the GuAIZ equipped with reverse engineered G-Weapon (EA's Gundams) tech. Some sources suggest that they're closer to the original high-end vision of the GuAIZ. So Yzak, Athrun, and Rau would be the fitting choice for ace-custom GuAIZs

>>23464399
That makes no sense at all. Nothing about the Strike or any of the striker packs have anything remotely similar to the Freedom gundam in design and armanent. You can twist my arm and say the head is inspired by the Strike but the Freedom is a completely new platform unrelated to the Strike gundam. Not to mention the obvious that the Freedom doesn't have swappable backpacks because it was a shitty idea and a logistical nightmare, having a weapon system integrated into the MS is far better than being able to swap packs and weapons on the battlefield.

>>23464816
The only real "Strike" Freedom is the Type II, given that the Proud Defender is a Striker Pack all but in name.

>>23464385
>The several seconds it would take to kill Raider with a beam saber (the saber does take a few seconds to melt the armor of the cockpit) means Calamity would shoot Justice.

Freedom sliced up the Chaos, which had more advanced VPS armor in about a half a second in Destiny. It wouldn't have taken that long. In fact later in SEED Justice gets a glancing boomerang hit that practically bisects Raider in an instant. The only reason it didn't kill is that it hit at a low angle under the waist so it only took off the legs and some of the backpack

>>23464816
Not necessarily. The Freedom is basically the Aile and Launcher combined into one with the Aile's high mobility design and sabers and the Launcher's firepower redistributed evenly throughout the body with two high power cannons instead of one big one and railguns instead of the missile pod.

>>23464487
Revive when.

>>23464399
They considered this actually but went for the wicked sick wing design instead

>>23449006
The Ootori pack is better.

How wide is the tech gap between the Strike, Strike Noir, and Impulse?

>>23471522
Strike Noir is only a 3rd Generation Striker Pack (Noire pack to be specific).
The actual Strike E underneath the backpack is more or less a souped up version of the Strike. For as much as the Windam gets the rep of it being an MP-type Strike , it has cut corners from that same position.
The Strike E besides having an improved battery capacity only really gets much else out of the frame because it's armour is not only VPS Armoured but it has nanolaminate compounds mixed in.
As for the Impulse, it is moreso a spiritual succesor forwards because the basis of the Impulse was lining up all the responsibilities of the Grasper MA's as pack carriers to just Bridge operators and the Pilot itself, as well as its modular disposability similar to the Victory Gundam.

>>23449006
Isn't that just Destiny Gundam minus the gay butterfly effect?

>>23471522
Minor between Strike and Noir, but huge between them and Impulse.

>>23471975
>Huge between them and the Impulse
Really? I thought the gap between the Noir and Impulse would be closer. What's the main culprit behind the divide?

>>23472990
Impulse is Brand New way of using Striker Packs and is a 2-for-1 with the Minerva as a whole.
Strike E (Noire) is just a revised 3rd generation Strike Gundam (With rocket punches)

>>23472990
Impulse has a better power system

>>23464399
The way the program worked was there was already a super GuiAZ program and then captured Earth Alliance Gundam data went in, thus the Freedom and Justice. Thus influence had more to do with Phase Shift and specific beams than anything unit-specific like the Striker Packs or Aegis transformation vs Justice glider ride.

>>23479590
>non PSA red paint on the Aile is barely scratched

This counts as a draw, right?

>>23481272
Yes.

>>23481272
Both of them would have died without pickup, Athrun too so yes it's a draw

>>23473982
Until the other sidestory material where Testament and Regenerate both crib heavily from the Striker packs and Aegis's transformation.

>>23484210
Except if we assume that ZAFT's Gundams were developed sequentially according to their model number, the Testament and Regenerate were both developed after the Freedom and Justice and could have had much more access to captured EA tech during the early design phase.

>>23464399
The Freedom and Justice are like 80% ZAFT technology using some Gundam stuff.

The Freedom's wing design is closer to the Dinn, Cgue and Ginn, the Justice's backpack is just a miniaturized Guul(pic related).

>>23464551
>>23464650
It's crazy how much characterization SEED leaves on the cutting room floor.
Kira and Athrun's relationship is another example of this, they barely felt like old friends in the show. More like coworkers.

Rusty also feels like he should've been a more important character, like he should've had a flashback episode or something. I know Gundam likes to unceremoniously kill off characters and keep it chugging, it's a very Tomino-esque in that sense, but Rusty has always been a part of SEED that was interesting to me because his death basically is the reason Kira gets involved at all.

>>23491652
>Kira and Athrun's relationship is another example of this
I disagree with this part, but you're right that it's strange to consider how much wound up riding on some rando dying. Then again, that's a lot of Gundam now that I think about it.

>>23465082
>Freedom sliced up the Chaos, which had more advanced VPS armor in about a half a second in Destiny.

I read somewhere that the Extended pilots in Season 2 were more stable and controllable, but this came at the cost of less performance. That's why Kira, Athrun, and Shinn had an easier time with Season 2 Extended pilots. Even Yzak and Dearkka slapped them around without much issue.

But I don't really see Shinn in Impulse Gundam being able to handle a 3v1 fight against Season 1 Extended pilots...like Kira in Freedom did.

>It wouldn't have taken that long.
It would still take at minimum several seconds. Enough for Kira to get shot of killed himself.?

Remember that if Freedom can slice up a suit in a few seconds, then it can also happen to Freedom as well. The moment Kira turns his back, then he's getting a beam blast to the back or giant scythe cutting him in half.

>>23491674
>that's a lot of Gundam now that I think about it.
Just like the Titans would have won the Gryps war if Jerid had just kept his fucking mouth shut instead of being a dick to some random teenager.

>>23479765
>>non PSA red paint on the Aile is barely scratched
Striker packs have phase shift.

>>23481292
>Athrun too so yes it's a draw
Athrun was unconscious. Not dead. So nope. Wrong.

>>23491799
They literally don't. Watch any episode where the striker packs are attached prior to the Strike's launch.

>>23491803
Athrun was face down in the tide and didn't wake up until he'd gotten medical treatment. If Orb hadn't found him he'd have died too.

>>23491799
>>23491863

Some parts of the Striker pack's have Phase Shift but they're minimal, especially in the Strike's case (Impulse and Strike Noir have more). The red parts of the Aile are definitely not PS though, as they're always red even when the power is off, and certainly couldn't have PS up when the Strike was totally wrecked and had no power to the armor anymore. The only part of the Aile that seems to have PS is the sabers

>>23491863
>They literally don't.
Yes they literally do.

>>23491980
No they literally don't

>>23491986
One example from anon already proved your entire argument wrong.

>>23491863
Strike Noir claims to have phase on its backpack, sword, and weapons. So it's entirely possible.

>>23492000
You meant to reply to >>23491980

You also made a weird typo bringing in an entirely different machine made by a different company with a different striker pack. It's okay, it happens.

>>23491980
Damn I never saw this before. Or maybe I never noticed. Okay. Good catch I will give you credit anon. I'm not surprised often these days.

>>23491980
Hmm, I'm not convinced. Are you sure this isn't digitally altered? I'm told I have very good eyes.

>>23491980

I must have been blind and never paid attention before.

That changes a lot of things if sword strike has phase shift.

But it does make sense if you think about it.

Strike is swinging around that thin sword so it's gotta be durable and not snap.

Same with beam boomerangs that have phase shift too.

>>23492222
Strike always had phase shift on the packs.

>>23492222
See >>23491868

Some parts of the pack have PS but not all of it. The weapons do not as they're solid colored and also breakable. The only thing that has PS on the sword pack is the backpack part that holds everything.

How does the SF Type II's cockpit work? You'd think the wings would get in the way if the 360 view. More on topic, am I the only one that finds the Strike's cockpit a bit claustrophobic?

>>23493817
They can just CGI the wings out of existence. The 360 degree view is already a composite of a bunch of different cameras all around the body, and the cockpit screens will already have overlays of HUD and other data anyway.

>>23493817
A good cockpit SHOULD be claustrophobic. It's not a minivan, you're not building it for long-haul comfort. You're trying to fit all of the necessary components in the torso while presenting as small of a target to the enemy as possible. If you try to make a cockpit roomy and spacious, the machine balloons on the outside too.

>>23493817
>>23493873

when you use a beam saber in a 360 degree cockpit I wonder if it just looks like two cut off arms floating there if you turn your head to the side

>>23493243


No.


The picture clearly shows the phase shift shimmer going over the armor on the left arm.

I just never noticed before.

We also never see sword strike break.


So now it all makes sense.

It had phase shift.

>>23493981
quick, we need you in the AoZ thread, there's too much unity and agreement in there

>>23491863
I don't understand this logic. If Buster Gundam's rifles can have phase shift, then why can't Launcher Strike ?

>>23493917
Translucent mesh/wireframe would be more sensible and useful

>>23493880
> FUCK ergonomics

>>23493917
Results inconclusive

>>23495767
I never understood why Athrun was able to kick the asses of the Extended pilots while using a Zaku, but suddenly he got so much weaker in skill when he got Saviour Gundam? Athrun was spending entire battles just fighting Chaos Gundam.

>>23495800
Expecting consistency from CE works is optimistic at best.

>>23495800
Orb joining the Orb forces mindbroke him/fucked up his sense of clarity in the conflict. He ends up pulling his punches to an absurd degree as a result.

>>23495859
The Earth Forces*. Forgot to mention the BtW incident reignited the Zala trauma.

Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking?

>>23499300
Yeah making it a folding knife with a blade that is longer than the handle is just retarded. It should have just been fixed bladed knives sheathed in the hips. By using these retarded folded blades all they would guarantee is that the mobile suit's hands would be damaged since the blade is twice the length of the handle and in the folded state the parts are overlapping so your going to end up grabbing it by the blade.

>>23464487
>>23499300
Meanwhile the Build Strike has beam sabers in place of knives, plus shoulder thrusters similar to the Strike E.

Doesn't seem to have shoulder hardpoints, but its first Striker Pack basically outfits it with the wings and armaments of the Freedom

>>23499892
>By using these retarded folded blades all they would guarantee is that the mobile suit's hands would be damaged since the blade is twice the length of the handle and in the folded state the parts are overlapping so your going to end up grabbing it by the blade.

it's a giant robot lmao it's like complaining that an excavator bucket would get damaged by a piece of rebar

>>23495800
Internal conflict. The big problem with Athrun throughout Destiny is not knowing what the hell he's doing. He's a failure of a mentor to Shinn because he didn't know enough about where HE should be going before giving anyone else directions. In his Zaku at EP1, he was straightforwardly saving Cagalli and needed Shinn to save him. Then it was stopping the Julius 7 colony drop alongside Yzak and Dearka. His purpose was fully clear and he would've done it regardless of feelings on Durandal. Then once he's in the Savior, he had no direction and couldn't use SEED mode because his convictions were too shaken. Athrun would've been mentally better off assigned under Yzak again rather than serving alongside Shinn and Rey but even then he'd be deeply unsure about joining ZAFT again and repeating the past.

>>23499892
When Kira shanks a Ginn with these things, they spray out constant sparks like a fountain. That would imply they inflict damage by some active function that wouldn't arm until they're ready to stab, no?

>>23500773
Considering the fact that he's worried about repeating the past, wouldn't returning under a familiar face like Yzak lead to its own share of problems?

>>23500773
Athrun being so bad as a mentor that it pushed Shinn towards Rey and Durandal and their way of thinking, worked out so well for Durandal (at least until the very end) that you have to wonder if he planned that on purpose.

>>23503970
It's really a win-win for him. Either Athrun steps up as Durandal's model soldier and gives him some great propaganda for the masses, or he fucks up and he can have Rey undermine/kill him while he's in his court, which still leaves him Shinn.

>>23500775
No those sparks are because he manages to hit and destroy two vital internal parts of the Ginn, which is why it immediately loses power.

>>23503970
>>23500773

I mean the main reason Athrun falls to pieces in Destiny is because Zaft ends up fighting Orb and Kira, something he didn't expect at all when he signed on. Before that he had one bad mission but then one good mission with Shinn, but once Orb and the AA came into the equation that was it because Athrun would never be able to bring himself to slaughter them all with impunity like Durandal and Shinn wanted him to no matter what Durandal tried to guilt him with

>>23494898
It CAN it just doesn't. Probably because the Agni is enough of a power hog as it is without sucking up more juice with PS.

>>23504654
No, It's because the knives are vibrating at a high frequency, causing continuous damage while they're in contact.

>>23500881
True but he'd be with friends he knows and can talk to rather than unfamiliar people including a boss he's directly working under. He wouldn't be sent on large profile missions where he'd fight Kira either.

>>23504678
He was still pretty uneasy about the war though, wasn't he? During the Lohengrin Gate mission, he saw the straggling EA officers executed and he was visibly uncomfortable. He knows he has an enemy to defeat, but the extent people would go in their hatred might have impacted his will just as much if he kept seeing it.

>>23504845
You're right on that. With Yzak and Dearka around, it'd be a lot easier to defect if he ends up not liking the smell of new ZAFT so much too.

>>23504703
Then why do they give phase shift to Aegis Gundam's shield, Buster's rifle, and Blitz Gundam's shield weapons?

>>23509268
nigga what part of "they can do it if they want" is so fucking hard to get

>>23504703
>It CAN it just doesn't. Probably because the Agni is enough of a power hog as it is without sucking up more juice with PS.
Are you implying Buster's cannon does not suck up energy? If anything, Buster's cannon uses more energy. So your argument doesn't make sense.

>>23509366
Fact: Buster never ran out of power firing its own guns

>>23509396
Buster did run out of power while fighting Raider and Forbidden.

>>23509428
Didn't the Buster get dumpstered by Rau literally ten seconds before that fight?

>>23509428
That's a lie. Buster lost phase shift armor because it took a barrage of beams from Providence and stopped working.

How do we know? the Buster's guns still had power and was used to kill the Raider.

>>23509450
>>23509447
>>23509396
Do Buster and Buster Daggers have a separate battery for their own guns?

>>23509447
>>23509450
Both Duel and Buster were running on fumes. Duel Gundam also ran out of power around the same time Buster did. It wasn't about damage. They were both about empty on battery power.

>How do we know? the Buster's guns still had power and was used to kill the Raider.
It enough remaining to fire one shot. That's it. Which doesn't help your argument.

>>23448288 (OP)
The strike was mass produced into this thing, which is the coolest looking GM clone in all the AUs, so I'd say it was a pretty based Gundam

>>23509483
Yeah, I don't buy that at all. You can't claim it lost power shooting all the guns and then also claim it still had power to shoot again. It also ignores that Buster wasn't firing its guns as it lost power, it was getting hit by DRAGOONs when it lost power.

>That's it. Which doesn't help your argument.
Add on as many extra words as you want.

>>23449754
The old super robot "form blazing sword" stock footage instant kill.

>>23509500
Phase Shift turning doesn't mean the suit has reached 0% power. There's still a small reserve of power (for example like 5%) for the pilot to escape the battlefield. We've seen this several times with Strike Gundam and Impulse Gundam.

>>23509500
Phase Shift turning off doesn't mean the suit has reached 0% power. There's still a small reserve of power (for example like 5%) for the pilot to use to escape the battlefield. We've seen this several times with Strike Gundam and Impulse Gundam.

Yzak simply used whatever tiny emergency reserve power Buster Gundam had left to fire the cannon.

>>23509500
Then did Duel Gundam run out of power around the same time?

>>23509557
Then it didn't lose power by shooting its guns, did it?

>>23509562
And where is that going?

>>23509621
Your logic makes no sense. Buster fired its gun and ran out of power. Then the Archangel had to rescue them both.

>>23509633
It didn't lose power after firing its gun. Even the PS armor was still on, so claiming it was low power at that point is just wrong.

Go on, post the shot of it losing power then. And I can post the shot of it still having power afterward.

>>23509645
>It didn't lose power after firing its gun.
Duel fired the gun. Then phase shift went down.

>Even the PS armor was still on,
For Duel? Not after firing the gun.

For Buster? It was already down.

>>23509447
>Didn't the Buster get dumpstered by Rau literally ten seconds before that fight?
How is that related? Strike Gundam, Aegis Gundam, and Duel Gundam have all had their limbs and heads blown off. Yet their phase shift kept working. Your argument is not related.

>>23509653
>How is that relevant?
Because taking damage wears on the suit's battery. How is this a question?

>>23509653
He's trying to argue that taking damage is what caused the phase shift down.

However he's ignoring that Duel Gundam also lost power roughly around the same time. Both had fought a long battle and needed a recharge.

And that other Gundams suffered catastrophic damage too, but kept their phase shift up.

Sure the damage didn't HELP Buster, but it was already low on power any way by that point in the battle. Firing that main cannon uses lots of energy.

>>23499892
This is the series where mechs can casually wield gigantic blades and double bladed beam saber without them ever getting in the way of their gigantic backpacks. This is a non issue that doesn't apply to the logic of the show at all.

>>23509489
Actually

>>23509799
>He's ignoring that Duel Gundam has also lost power roughly around the same time.
What does the Duel Gundam running out of phase shift soon after have to do with anything?
>Both had fought a long battle
And the Launcher Strike has sapped itself dry using the Agni in mere minutes. How is this helping your point?
>And that other Gundams suffered catastrophic damage too, but kept their phase shift up.
The only time I recall a G-Weapon taking massive damage and maintaining phase shift long after came in episode 46 with the Strike.

>>23510327
Your argument is >>23509396
>Fact: Buster never ran out of power firing its own guns
Other anons already *technically* proved you wrong.

>>23510399
Oh, I'm not that anon. I'm here contesting your claim that the Buster's cannon eats more power than the Agni made here. >>23509366

>>23510483
That said, the Buster absolutely lost its power due to sheer damage there.

>>23510483
Well the databooks say Buster is more draining than Launcher Strike. They say that Buster's cannon is so energy intensive that tests showed the mobile suit on-board battery wasn't enough to power the cannons. The EA engineers had to install additional auxiliary energy generators in each cannon just to help charge the weapons for each shot. Launcher Strike doesn't have that. Also, apparently Buster has greater range than Launcher Strike according to the databooks.

>>23510501
Well shit, you should have led with that. The range thing tracks, though.
>The Launcher Strike doesn't have that.
Well, that explains why the Buster seems to have an easier time managing its power than the Strike. As for the question regarding phase shift, maybe they wanted extra protection for the generators. That, and losing guns is far more of a problem for the Buster than it would be for the Strike.

>>23510501
>>23510542
Instead, Launcher Strike's Agni has a replaceable battery plugged into the rear end (reused for the Perfect Strike's "tail" of extra batteries) and a port for plugging in a ship's power cable as used in the one episode where they fire from inside a smokescreen.

I dislike how modular designs like Strike Gundam always seem to outperform dedicated designs like Buster or Duel.

- Launcher Strike always seems to beat Buster Gundam.

- Sword Strike always matches Blitz Gundam.

- Aile Strike always matches or defeats Aegis Gundam and Duel Gundam (with Assault Shroud).

The whole idea behind modularity is that you give up power for versatility. Not a single modular design in real life outperforms a dedicated design.


If they wanted Strike Gubdam to work, they should have shown in a support role. Give Kira the Duel Gundam. Let Yzak get Strike. Then Yzak switches pack to support Buster or Aegis or Blitz.

Perfect Strike was a great idea. If such a suit possible then why didn't Kira do it from the start?

>>23510672
Perfect Strike needed a ton of extra batteries. I doubt the Archangel had the resources to muster that since they were always on the run. Perfect didn't debut until Orb iirc. By that time they had Orbs resources. Even if they could do it before hand, why waste all those resources on one battle?
The real reason is budget. Mu only used it in one battle himself. They didn't want to reanimate anything else. You think he'd use it in the final battle.

>>23510689
>You think he'd use it in the final battle.
I'm genuinely curious how a a Perfect Strike Gundam VS Providence Gundam battle would go.

>>23510701
Providence wasn't going to take any damage before it fought Freedom. I'd actually be really embarrassing for Mu since I doubt they'd let him destroy even a single Dragoon.

>>23510672
Sounds on par for Gundam.

>Perfect Strike was a great idea. If such a suit possible then why didn't Kira do it from the start?
For Kira's first couple of fights, the more basic Aile striker with beam rifle and beam saber are easier to handle. Perfect Strike's extra gear comes with drawbacks like weight and the complication of a lot of weapons to handle at once for a beginner pilot. The Aile's thrusters offset the weight to some degree, but using the thrusters more often and using the anti-ship sword and Agni gun also means using up more fuel\electricity and not lasting as long in battle, so the Perfect Strike also needed a bunch of extra batteries otherwise it'd run out sooner.

Supposedly the Perfect Striker is one of those military-industrial-complex boondoggles. Something that sounds good in concept but poorly executed and didn't amount to much. Later the EA follows up with the IWSP which is same idea but more compact. It trades in almost all of the beam weapons for regular cannons, railguns, and sharpened metal blades instead, and keeps the beam boomerang and regular beam rifle. All of the changes and improved thrust also allow Strike+IWSP to fly in atmosphere, but still suffered from energy issues in the beginning before being resolved and deployed in limited production in time for 2nd EA-Plant war.

Later parallel development by Morganroete results in the Ootori Striker, which also chases after the "weapons for all ranges" ideal. Compared to IWSP it's mechanically simpler and even lighter, while I guess battery advances allow for more beam weapons than the IWSP has.

>>23510701
Sorry, all you're gonna get is ~2 seconds from the remastered opening #4

Thoughts on the Impulse?

Gentlemen...
I must say that I do love the Strike.

>>23510738
How is the Perfect Strike so much heavier and slower when Calamity Gundam carries just as many weapons and is just fine? ? If not more weapons than Perfect Strike Gundam.

>>23511533
NTA but the Calamity is the slowest of the Druggie mechs to the point it has to hitch a ride on the Raider constantly.

>>23467362
That's not how you spell IWSP, which is objectively the best strike variant.

>>23512820
Ootori's just a simplified/improved IWSP.

>>23512861
It doesn't look nearly as cool. Dropping the gatling shield and the twin swords is lame. And that's not even getting into the Strike E being a cooler variant of the strike with the grappling anchor and shorty beam rifles.

>>23512907
Replacing the twin swords with an anti-ship sword is a step up.

>>23512950
The IWSP has the grand slam in addition in some variants. And the grand slam is way cooler than the standard anti ship swords.

>>23512907
The shield is cool, but the shoulder cannons spoil things for me. The Ootori also has the benefit of actually having an animated fight scene, which objectively makes it better.

s'okay
i think okawara designed it at a time he really should've been taking a break from gundam

ARMOR SCHNEIDERS

>>23510751
I always hated the baby blue accents.

>>23510751
Solid successor. Wish we got to see more of Sword Impulse in action though. I'm still shocked we don't have anything like an IWSP variant for it (no, the Destiny silhouette doesn't count).

>>23518884
Why doesn't Destiny Silhouette count? It's an attempt at bringing together elements of all three loadouts that is considered useable, if flawed, in universe. That is also the exact description of the IWSP.

>>23520106
As I see it, the design goals of the Destiny Silhouette and the Ootori/Perfect/IWSP Strike are fundamentally different. One is trying to optimize the abilities of what we can call an A-class Gundam (or in EXVS terms, make a 2000 into a 2500). The other is creating a watered down/demo version of an S-class Gundam. It also just does less to represent its ranged/artillery loadout than the other packs I mentioned.

>>23450677
The strike dagger was intended to have striker packs with the 105 models, but production time and cost was too high so it was simplified further just so the Atlantic Federation would have mobile suits to field immediately.

>>23511533
The Calamity was originally supposed to be a giant Psycho/Destroy Gundam equivalent but was scaled down because they feared that a large than normal model kit wouldn't sell. This is also why the Raider Gundam looks like it should be picking up and carrying something huge with those claws in MA mode.

>>23520346
The problem with that is the lore says Destiny silhouette predates the Destiny Gundam

>>23518884
>Solid successor.
No or wasn't. The Impulse project was a failure according to the databooks. The core block system made the suit too complicated and too expensive without enough payoff for all that work.

Everytime Impulse returned from battle, it required serious maintenance time on the frame and all connection points. MS Crews were constantly busy. Impulse was a massive hangar queen. In addition, the cost of providing spare parts ballooned out of control.

Strike Gundam was the perfect
sweet spot. Modular but not TOO modular that made the frame too weak. Different backpacks with hard points across the body is perfect.

>>23520634
Tbf, I did say it was a demo too. The point remains that the Destiny Impulse is fundamentally trying to be another mobile suit (or at least a testbed for it) while the IWSP/Perfect/Ootori Strike is simply trying to be the best version of itself.

>>23510751
What about the Destiny?

>>23521169
Good machine. But it was plagued by not having any good rivals. Using Destiny Gundam to fight Destroy Gundams is not fun or interesting to watch. Especially since beam shields are too strong and can't be broken. Destiny Gundam tanking a giant beam that's bigger than itself is cringe. If the Extended pilots were still alive, then it would have been cool to give them uograded suits that could rival Destiny Gundam. Like how the Druggie pilots fought Kira and Athrun in season 1

The stike is perfecto
Imo they should have given Mu the makeup gunbarrel striker with his old Moebius zero in the seed finale to fight the providence

>>23520755
>No or wasn't. The Impulse project was a failure according to the databooks. The core block system made the suit too complicated and too expensive without enough payoff for all that work.
>Everytime Impulse returned from battle, it required serious maintenance time on the frame and all connection points. MS Crews were constantly busy. Impulse was a massive hangar queen. In addition, the cost of providing spare parts ballooned out of control.
That was because of their treatment. The whole swapping parts was so pilots can have instant repairs or replacements on the fly but they ended up using them as disposable parts. Shinn too jetisoned some limbs against Kira before getting new ones. This meant projected costs ended up way underestimating actual costs because nobody knew how pilots would treat having back-ups as disposables.

>>23521338
Thre SF and IJ were rivals. Also, I have to disagree with your take on Destiny v. Destroy there. Perhaps it's just me, but I take great satisfaction in seeing Shinn take these monstrous city wiping machines that took so much effort to beat before and ripping them to shreds. Besides that, it's just fun seeing Shinn go ham. I agree that it would have been nice to have an in-between of that and the Strike Freedom/Infinite Justice, though.

>>23522557
They weren't good rivals though. Shinn was pretty much on the backfoot in all of his fights with them, to the point he somehow lost to an Athrun who was piloting half dead.

>>23522557
You seem to have confused good storytelling with Shinn beating his enemies.

Remember that even during Zeta Gundam anime, Kamille had numerous rivals he had trouble with. People like Jerid, Buran, Yazan, cyber newtype pilots, and even later on Haman and Scirroco.

Shinn didn't have anything like that in the 2nd half of Destiny. Destroy Gundams don't count. They were lumbering behemoths. Not actual rivals. The closest thing Shinn had was the Extended pilots.

>>23521338
>>23521169

Destiny's problem is Shinn was already so great in Impulse it barely feels like an upgrade. Strike to Freedom was clearly a massive game changer in power at it marked the point where Kira could now clear grunts in an instant. Previously in Strike Kira had to work for every takedown, even the grunts because it wasn't that powerful compared to them. Kira switching to it was a major change in things.

Impulse however starts off already so strong it can effortlessly mow down waves of grunts, as shown when Neo sics 30 Windam's on Shinn and he wastes 29 of them with barely more than a single shot or slash in their direction while quipping that numbers are worthless against him. Only the Extendeds can trip him up. Even against the first Destroy he flew in and immediately started dodging and fighting it way better than Kira did, damaging it in barely a minute and only having trouble because he finds out Stella is in it and gives up. He even completely trashes the far more powerful Freedom. All upgrading to Destiny does it let him fight 6 Destroy's at the same time instead of only one, and he's now being humiliated by Kira again with a suit equal in power when he trashed him with a weaker one.

>>23521550
Then he'd just get wrecked. Just like with Perfect Strike. The story requires Mu to get trashed by Rau immediately so Kira can fight him while Mu goes and jumps in front of the Archangel

>>23522573
>>23522594
>You seem to have confused good storytelling with Shinn beating his enemies.
I literally cited the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice as his rivals and this is what you take away from my post? That said, I do think Shinn gaining the power to mow down Destroys is perfectly fine for storytelling purposes.
>Shinn was pretty much on the backfoot in ll his fights with them
That's literally the opposite of the problem. Shinn was bulldozing ahead with no real plan and it led to cracks in his movements that Kira and Athrun were able to use against him. Even then, Kira very clearly struggles to keep pace with Shinn.
> Kamille had numerous rivals he had trouble with.
Kamille is just a really inconsistent pilot in general though. Some days he's moving like a proper ace, others he's getting pressed by some noname punk.
>Jerid
It's less that Kamille struggles and more that Jerid has Kamille dead to rights and keeps screwing himself over because he wants to give him the Iok special.
>Buran
Kamille wasn't even the one to take him out in the end. Also, he's in the first half of the series, AND he only showed up for two or three episodes.
>Cybernewtype pilots
No one ever actually fights the cybernewtypes, though.They're not rivals by any definition.
>Haman and Scirroco
Two fights each does not a rival make. And can we really say Kamille struggled against Scirroco in the second fight?
>Destroy Gundams don't count. They were lumbering behemoths. Not actual rivals.
I never said the Destroys were rivals, so this is irrelevant.

>>23522573
Shinn was close to his lowest point in character. The fucked up thing about Shinn is his first positive character development in Destiny was making peace with Kira at the end. Everything else just drove him deeper and deeper into a depressed and angry mire. At that point, his piloting skill went down the drain as he spammed moves and stock footage rather than use any creative tactics. SEED Freedom Shinn's Destiny Spec 2 is better but besides the clones not a massive quantum leap yet he fought way better because his mind wasn't fucked up.

>>23522657
>I literally cited the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice as his rivals and this is what you take away from my post?
They aren't Shinn's rivals. That implies they are equals. Kira and Athrun were clearly a step above Shinn in terms of piloting skills and experience. Shinn tried his best but clearly he couldn't take them 1v1. It took a 2v1 (Legend and Destiny) for Shinn to almost hurt Strike Freedom.

If these guys (pic related) showed up in the Destiny anime, then THEY would be huge rivals against Destiny Gundam (version 1). Someone Shinn could fight against, but not immediately defeat or trample (like Destroy Gundam). It would be an even match.

>>23522628
>Neo sics 30 Windam's on Shinn and he wastes 29 of them with barely more than a single shot or slash in their direction while quipping that numbers are worthless against him.
Yeah that's a fantastic point. I remember that episodes. I actually recall when I first watched that scene and thought, "Yeah this is a bit too much. Impulse Gundam shouldn't be able to solo 30 or 40 windams by itself."

>>23522676
I see your logic, but at the same time, what would that make Amuro and Char for the first half of 0079?
>If these guys (pic related) showed up in the Destiny anime, then THEY would be huge rivals against Destiny Gundam (version 1)
Again, no argument from me that it would have been cool to see.
>>23522628
>Even against the first Destroy he flew in and immediately started dodging and fighting it way better than Kira did, damaging it in barely a minute
tbf, Stella was starting to crap out mentally by the time Shinn arrived.

>>23522676
Shinn's problem in Destiny was his mental instability.

>>23522676
We know that Destiny Gundam Type 2 can defeat the Black Knights with some moderate difficulty. But I wonder if the original Destiny Gundam could do it? It wouldn't have access to that massive clone special ability that gave Shinn the victory.

>>23522686
>I see your logic, but at the same time, what would that make Amuro and Char for the first half of 0079?
Remember that Char wasn't the only challenge that Amuro faced. Amuro also had to deal with people like Ramba Ral in the Gouf, the Dom Tri-Star team, and the crazy Zeon water suits like the Gogg and Acguy.

>>23522695
While he did use the clones to win, it wasn't the Destiny's only win condition. Shinn had an answer for everything the Black Knights had to throw at him and was even damaging them before entering SEED mode. He should be fine, maybe with a couple more bruises to show for the battle since he wouldn't have the spec Ii's frame upgrade. That said, the mobile suits for the Black Knights would likely be more in the experimental phase. That one Anon was right, a three-way Destiny war WOULD have been great.to see for the movie. Then again, that would be way too much to cram into a single movie.
>>23522698
For sure, but this doesn't quite answer the question of what to classify Amuro and Char as since they aren't equals in the first half of 0079.

>>23522711
>For sure, but this doesn't quite answer the question of what to classify Amuro and Char as since they aren't equals in the first half of 0079.

In my personal opinion, Amuro and Char weren't exactly rivals in the early part of 0079. Rivals implies they were equal in skill. Char was handicapped by having a really inferior mobile suit. Amuro didn't have a much skill and relied on his superior mobile suit.

Char was more like the Nemesis of White Base for the first half of 0079.

I would say Amuro and Char finally became rivals right around the attack on Jaburo. Char in the Z'Gok and Amuro in the Gundam were about equal. Both had access to beam weapons and could damage eachother. Neither side had a decisive advantage.

>>23522631
I know but that would have been more interesting instead of strike getting rekt almost instantly, with a battle of remote weapons, the gunbarrel striker putting up a fight, losing due to the tech gap but maybe at least scoring some good hits to make Raw seethe and warning Kira of that shit
I mean, NO ONE batted an eye at the absurd power and dragoon bullshit in that final battle

>>23522631
>>23522793
but now they could just do this ending with gunbarrel strike

>>23522823
I'm gonna need some serious context here.

Why is Providence undamaged?

Why is Freedom absolutely wrecked even worse than the TV show?

Why is Justice also wrecked too?

Why is Mu in a Mobius Zero, and not Strike Gundam? Did they not give him Strike in the manga?? Seems really unfair.

What is going on?

>>23522832
there's a possibility it's the old iwase manga but I remember the art for that one looking more awful than >>23522823

>>23522711
I'm guessing you think Legend Gundam would lose against the Black Knights.

>>23522936
It depends on how much firepower Shinn can draw away from Rey. He's decent and at least has a chance to inflict damage with those concentrated saber DRAGOONS, but his more methodical fighting style is a terrible match for the Accords.

>>23522936
It would certainly have a massive disadvantage since the majority of it's firepower would be useless. It would have to make due with it's regular sabers and trying to hit with the melee dragoons without them getting destroyed first

>>23449180
>Why the fuck the presumed successor is created by Zaft and not by the Earth Alliance?
Because Dullindal is attempting to prove the viability of the Destiny Plan by cargo-culting his way into making a second Kira. He made his own Archangel and his own Strike and engineered his own situation where a team of Gundams get stolen and used against it by the enemy under the logic that if he puts Shinn through something close enough to what happened to Kira then Shinn will develop into a berserker genius pilot like Kira did. He wants the version of Kira in the desert who stomps on a Bucue's throat and then blows its head off, and he believes that he can make that happen on demand if he just controls the right variables.

>>23523269
I'd say he got pretty close, but then Rey ruined it with the guilt trip routine he used on Shinn.

>>23523269
Speaking of the Minerva as an Archangel expy, do we know if it has the same anti-beam missiles that the Archangel did? The last time I remember another ship using that was the Dominion. Was it just unreliable or something?

>>23523814
Pretty sure they do. It was used several times. Even against the Archangel. Both of their beams were deflected when they shot eachother.

>>23523814
Yes, Talia orders them to be used during the chase and fight with the Girty Lue after they try to escape with the stolen Gundams.

>>23523848
>>23524500
Shit, I can't believe I forgot about that. Guess I'm due for a rewatch. By the way, are there any mobile suits that employ that technology in SEED's MSV?

>>23523848
>By the way, are there any mobile suits that employ that technology in SEED's MSV?
It's never been stated to be the same chemicals\particles\gas, but the Forbidden's beam deflection variation on the mirage colloid tech functionally seems to work the same way.

Other than that, not really since mostly MS usually rely on passive anti-beam coating that doesn't require a supply of gas or special magnetic field equipment, just a shield or some sturdy surface to apply to.

I kinda wish Gundam Seed gave more attention to ship battles. I know the focus is on mobile suits but it would be nice to incorporate fleet battles more. It kinda feels like the ships are useless without mobile suits backing them up.

Like the Archangel could still fight off enemy mobile suits like Ginns and Gundams. For example the invasion of Federation HQ in season 1. The Archangel had no mobile suits but still fought hard and held the line at the main gate.

But when the Minerva lost her mobile suit teams, the Infinite Justice was able to sink her with a single strike. The Justice didn't even care about any defenses the Minerva had. She sunk too easily.

>>23524525
Man you don't know the half of it, Gundam Seed had more ship battles than almost all of the preceding decade's Gundam animation put together. 0083 had some ship fights, but it's mostly just token shots of the Albion firing its weapons or taking a minor hit. F91 basically had zero decent ship battle porn. G, Wing, and X had a tiny number of warships but I can't remember a goddamned ship fight in any of it. 08th MS Team showed the Big Tray and Zanzibar but they didn't do anything except stand there and get shot down, respectively. Turn A had some warships but not a lot of ship combat.

Then you have Seed and Destiny, and the ships are goddamned hero machines of their own. They are functionally just Gundams in ship form. Archangel and Minerva are able to shoot down mobile suits by themselves. They pack way more weapons and tech into the hull than anything that came before, except for maybe the run of White Base type ships in the UC.

>>23524520
I see. While it's not necessarily the most practical to justify the effort in developing, I still think it's a bit of a missed opportunity for choreography. As a defensive maneuver, anti-beam charges could easily fulfill a unique space as a defensive maneuver.
>>23524543
Words cannot describe how accurate this is. They even have funnel/gun barrels now in Freedom. I owe my burgeoning appreciation of warships to these shows.

>>23524543
0079 and Gundam Seed was great about making ships relevant in battles.

But the problem is the 2nd half of Gundam Seed Destiny. The mobile suits become so powerful that ships become irrelevant again. I doubt the Archangel could fight off Legend Gundam or Destiny Gundam. But in Seed (Season 1), the Archangel could put up a solid fight against the original G Weapon Gundams, and most all Zaft mobile suits.

>>23524620
>I doubt the Archangel could fight off Legend Gundam or Destiny Gundam.
Absolutely right. Sometimes I still have a soft spot for the early fights before the power levels got out of control.

>>23524641
Wait? Did they fire while cloaked? How come we never saw that again? That's a HUGE strategic advantage.

>>23524639
The sweet spot for Seed seems to be battery powered Gundams. So most of Gundam Seed (ignoring Freedom and Justice Gundam), and the first 20 ish episodes of Seed Destiny.

The ships still have to be tactically deployed, and the mobile suits aren't strong enough to easily sink properly defended ships. Impulse can't just fly up to the Archangel and sink it.

>>23524653
Firing while cloaked has always been a thing. Blitz does it in >>23524520 and during the operation to cripple the shield of Artemis.

I'm sort of surprised that the EA just doesn't pull that card more often since they're not shy about war crimes, especially if the mirage colloid allows them to get away with it. Priorities, I guess.

>>23524667
I'm pretty sure they don't fire while under MC because it gives away their position. At least that's why Blitz does it since it can't run PS and MC at the same time so all that's doing is inviting the enemy to spam missiles in the general direction of the shots. Girty Lue never uses MC again after it loses it's extra tanks. I'm pretty sure it required those tanks to use it and it never gets them replaced.

>>23524653
>Impulse can't just fly up to the Archangel and sink it.

It probably could if Kira wasn't there to protect it. Impulse slices up an entire fleet with no capable resistance on two occasions.

>>23522681
Destiny's biggest problem fight wise was that it didn't scale back to early SEED style fights despite the supposed downgrade in tech, it kept SEED's endgame of giant armies getting stomped by OP hero Gundam's. But endgame SEED was the climax of the war, so it made sense. Destiny starting out with EA fielding dozens and dozens of MS and failing to put a dent in Minerva just makes the whole thing seem more laughable than it already is.

>>23524810
Throwback to one of those times when Archangel wasn't being protected since Kira was occupied with fighting the enemy ace

>>23524823
>Supposed downgrade
Anon, we have proper mobile armors out and about by the 12th episode. Going back to the desert days was never going to be in the cards even without the NJC.

>>23524810
Sword Impulse can't fly. Archangel can. Shinn would need Force Impulse to get close to Archangel but even then he would get pummeled by CIWS, missiles, and beam attacks. Force impulse wouldn't be able to get passed the Flak barrier.

Regarding the Orb battle...it's rather hazy to me. Everyone on Orb's side had their IQ drop by like 40 points. No one seemed to think about shooting Sword Impulse with a beam rifle. I mean come on. A group of Murasames couldn't surround Sword Impulse from the air and open fire? They did it to Chaos Gundam.

>>23524543
Onr of the highlights of Freedom was how much the Millennium kicked ass

>>23525243
Yeah the Millennium is a really cool ship.

>>23525246
>>23525243
I was very annoyed that it took zero damage fighting against 2 massive combined fleets of Zaft and Foundation. Not even a single scratch.

>>23524959
The Orb forces chose to go all in on attempting to sink the Minerva (deliberately ignoring mobile suits in an attempt to bumrush), so a good number got taken out like that. Then another chunk got whittled down by the Force Impulse. Whatever remained did in fact try what you said to an extent, but it's kind of hard to do that when your opponent is literally standing on your ship. Shinn also used the Beamarangs to shut down any attempts at surrounding him.

>>23525256
Taking zero damage is just common in SEED.

>>23525545
Season 1 Seed wasn't like that. I remember the Archangel and Dominion getting hammered. The Eternal and Kusanagi also got heavily wrecked hy the end of the season