Thread 23470376

>battle is fought in space
>they begin 10km apart
>Both have access to their ultimate mobile suits(The Sazabi vs the Providence Gundam)
>They both truly believe victory can only be achieved through the destruction of the other
>their fleets are both distracted in a totally different combat, meaning it's truly a 1 on 1, with no interference possible

who wins? I feel like if it was Full Frontal instead of Char, he'd annihilate, but I'm actually not quite as sure about this specific matchup.

Char

>>23470376 (OP)
To quote Stan Lee
"WHOMEVER THE WRITER WANTS! Stop asking boneheaded questions."

>>23470376 (OP)
It's hard to say. Besides wrecking Kira's METEOR, he doesn't really have a lot of feats. Still, I feel inclined to give it to him. Char hasn't quite given me enough to make me believe he's the better remote weapon user in combat.

>>23470658
yeah, for me it's comparing the mobile suits they fought against. Kira was bonkers levels of OP in the FREEDOM, and hadn't yet become Jesus Yamato, going into battle and magically only shooting to disable. Le Creuset still would have shot him out of the sky if not for Mwu(who I still refuse to acknowledge managed to survive).

>>23470376 (OP)
Isn't Rau a sniper? I feel like that puts him at a huge disadvantage against a newtype, since they would sense his shots and dodge them. I know Rau is no slouch in melee, but upclose and personal is Char's specialty against anyone who isn't Amuro.
But everyone knows Zechs would beat them both.

>10 km apart
This is the kicker for me. At that distance, it comes down to the longest range weapons they have - funnels and dragoons.
>Sazabi has 6 funnels
>Providence has 3 large dragoons with 9 cannons on each, and 8 small dragoons with 2 cannons on each, for a total of 43 cannons
uhhhhh

>>23470826
Rau is probably at least as skilled a newtype as CCA Char, if not more skilled.

>>23470835
In space, 10 km isn't really all that far apart. Mr. "Three Times Normal Speed" is gonna close that gap pretty quickly.

>>23470826
Again, he's never really displayed any feats like sniping things that few others could

none of his suits ever had sniper-type weapons

>>23470811
> Le Creuset still would have shot him out of the sky if not for Mwu
What battle are you talking about?
>>23470826
>Spoiler
That's more owed to the fact that mobile suits are just stupid durable in Wing than anything else.

>>23470826
Rau and Mwu are also confirmed newtypes

>>23470383
go back to redddit

>>23470826
I feel like Zechs would shitstomp Rau, but CCA Char vs Zechs would one hell of a fight. I feel like Sazabi with funnels might overpower the Tallgeese 3, but maybe the Epyon System would give Zechs the edge.
Because if there's anything Char is dogshit at, its foresight, and the Epyon/Zero system is going to clown on that.

>>23473697
>Zechs activates the Epyon system against Char
>Epyon system starts dialling Amuro's number

>>23473697
The Providence has over double the Sazabi's funnel count. Wouldn't the same hold true for it in a battle against the T3?

>>23470376 (OP)
Probably Rau because Char is actually a pretty mid pilot all things considered. I don't remember Rau embarrassing himself ever in Seed, but I do remember Char struggling with any pilot above grunt status during Zeta. Chat entirely relies on having a superior MS to be as good as his reputation precedes him, Rau was just good

>>23470826
Am I wrong for assuming Zechs is one of the best Char clones on terms of pilot skill? The man is a combat genius, able to take down the Wing Gundam in aerial combat with a Leo, which is a ground combat MS vs an optimized air combat Gundam leagues ahead of it. He was able to master the Talgeese is a short time when that MS was literally cracking ribcages of it's pilots beforehand and was also on par with a Gundam. He also was able to use the Wing Zero without losing his mind, something Hero couldn't even do the first time. He then pioneers using mobile dolls in seamless tandem with the Epyon. The man is a piloting and tactical genius

>>23473697
>funnels
>overpowering a suit with 8-11Gs of acceleration
lol, lmao. The Tallgeese 3 can just do what the Stark Jegan did but on steroids.

>>23474271
He's contender for the best in Wing. And I'd put him over Char easily. Char's a psycooframe merchant

>>23474271
He's up there. I think the other top contenders are Full Frontal and Schwarz Bruder (if you count him).

Rue is a Coordinator GOD, Char literally has no chance.

>>23470376 (OP)

Char almost loses every single battle he has ever fought in a Mobile Suit. He is the most overrated pilot in Universal Century.

Rau fucking rips Kira and the Freedom to pieces and defeats the profagonist in an argument where he is right about absolutely everything in the Cosmic Era before going down.

And he gets to kill Kira's then-current girlfriend too.

Char is a better pilot than anyone in CE. You're literally retarded if you think Char is "mid." A mid pilot isn't hanging with Amuro.
>>23470376 (OP)
>I feel like if it was Full Frontal instead of Char, he'd annihilate
Anything Full Frontal can do piloting wise so can Char, he was literally possessed by him.

>>23474550
>claim to fame is from killing thousands of defenseless people in the battle that introduced mobile suits to the world, when the EDF forces were fish in a barrel
>ride that fame for a thousand years to the point of being cloned for your "skills" even though you did nothing but lose every single fight once the opposing side got their own suits, even when his was a generation ahead of his opponent's

>>23470383
Honestly think you should say this quote when people start bringing up real word comparisons or calculations.

>>23470376 (OP)
Probably rau but barely. Rau wrecked the shit out of kiras meteor and still kept going. Especially how damn strong raus gundam was.

>>23474550
>Char almost loses every single battle he has ever fought in a Mobile Suit

Is.....is char on fraud watch?

in 2025 this is a stupid question because Sazabi has psychoframe
in 2003 or whatever it's a less stupid question because psychoframe isn't a complete asspull factory

>>23474604
>A mid pilot isn't hanging with Amuro
Amuro regularly outdoes him even in Zeta and the one time he had the upper hand after the OYW came down to him having the far better suit.
>>23474393
He's a clone of a natural, pretty sure that Moe's him one too.
>>23474550
Kira effectively (and rightly) called him out for arguing in poor faith twice and Rau's response was to shrug his shoulders. Also, Flay was an ex.
>>23475338
This is Char we're talking about though.

>>23476450
Makes him*

>>23475338
Good thing it's Char with standard psychoframe as oppose to Char in a fanfiction with fictional psychoframe.

>>23476454
You'd think those rayciss ass coordinators would just test people's blood to make sure they're real instead of having some Gattaca ass test that Rau could cheat

>>23476450
>>23476755
While Rau is a clone of a Natural, he is a clone of a pretty capable Natural. Al La Flaga won the genetic lottery, while Coordination is trying to rig the lottery.

>>23476811
functionally there's no difference between peak naturals and average coordinators. the superior genes that they pick to go into coordinators have to already existed somewhere else.

>>23476450
>Amuro regularly outdoes him even in Zeta
Completely irrelevant to what was said. Amuro is also barely in Zeta to be directly compared. Are you really going to reference the Asshimar getting a hit on him while he was distracted by the freighter Amuro was in, or even getting his weapon hit?
Regarding Char seemingly regressing in skill or jobbing in order to make enemy pilots look good, think about it this way. In episode 6, Lila, a OYW vet, gets a highlight of her piloting skills when she essentially emulates newtype spatial awareness, dodging without directly seeing the enemy and avoiding beams from behind instinctively. Of course, a green Kamille beats her ass in the very next episode. In episode 3, Char is up against her and fails to get a direct hit on her while also being astonished by it. She freaks out at the thought of him being "the Red Comet" and he takes down one enemy unit. Is Kamille better than Char by episode 6?
When Amuro has matured in 0079 and Char has a comparable suit, Char does well against Amuro. You know, the guy beating the shit out of everyone with little effort and the best pilot in all of Gundam. MS fights are often decided in a few (direct) hits. The Sabazi and Nu were essentially equal. I would also add that random grunts are way better in the UC than any other universe and the standard for "ace pilot" is higher.

>>23476845
>Irrelevant
I am directly challenging the notion that Char is on par with Amuro with an example. How is that at all irrelevant?
>Are you really going to reference the Asshimar getting a hit on him while he was distracted by the freighter Amuro was in, or even getting his weapon hit?
Firstly, it's your job to protect yourself at all times in a battle. The fact Char never learns this lesson is just more reason to consider the notion that he's hanging with Amuro questionable. Secondly, Char himself tried to rush Amuro in the middle of a literal mindmeld back in 79 and still couldn't land anything. What's his excuse after all these years?
Regardless, Amuro literally went on to succeed at the same thing Char attempted only a few episodes (coordinating a 2v1/defeating the Asshimar) prior with an inferior machine and an arguably higher stakes scenario only 2 episodes later.
>In episode 3
Their skirmish barely amounts to a minute, and Char still wound up fucking up their plans badly.
>Episode 7
Are we really going to ignore the fact that she was freaking out the entire fight? Kamille doesn't have to be better than Char to get this result.
>Char does well against Amuro
Anon, he literally had him in a 2v1 between his Gelgoog and the Elmeth (arguably a 3v1 considering the fact Amuro had to babysit Sayla while fighting) and still couldn't get any work done. He literally leaves the fight crying to Lalah for guidance because Amuro is just plain out of his league now. He has to get an outright superior mobile suit just to eke out a draw, and even that's owed to cockpit placement.
>Random grunts are way better in UC
One the one hand, I've seen what you're talking about and agree to an extent. On the other, Char (who isn't even a ranged specialist and has had no feats matching Amuro's countdown killstreaks with his beam rifle) apparently believes someone dodging two shots is something to be astounded about.

>>23476845
>The Sazabi and Nu were essentialkly equal
The moment Amuro made fighting Char his chief priority, he tore the Sazabi to shreds. That said, I thought the Nu was made with Jegan parts.

>>23477097
>That said, I thought the Nu was made with Jegan parts.
That was the Re-GZ. Nu was custom built to order

>>23474367
Full Frontal was pretty good, he kept up with the Unicorn in NTD and fended it off, minus Gilboa getting MAGNUMED. I would say as far as. Har Clones go as pilots I would rank it like this:
>Zechs = Rau
>Full Frontal
>Harry Ord
>Mr Bushido
I would put Gato on there, even though he really isn’t a Char clone

>>23473881
>Zechs activates the Epyons Zero System
>It calculates the best way to kill Char is to just leave and Char will inevitably be killed by his own self-destructive impulses.

>>23470383
He was completely wrong though
Same as how he was wrong to do nothing but steal the work of better men

>>23470376 (OP)
Whoever the writer decides to favor.

>Char deploys funnels
>he clenches his abs and they get blown back

>>23498221
that's an unironic reddit npc slop eater answer

>>23470383
Even without getting into deeper philosophical queries about r=f and such
This is the worst answer ever
Imagine trying to apply this to plot twists or plot points or character relationships
Anyone that says this is just a filtered faggot who seethes at powerscaling

>>23474550
Fantasy:
>defeats the profagonist in an argument where he is right about absolutely everything in the Cosmic Era before going down.

Reality:
>"WAAA! I'M AN IMPERFECT CLONE! I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DADDY AL'S FAVORITE BUT I'M AGING TOO FAST! IT'S NOT FAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIR!"

Rau's argument is easily debunked when you realize he is literally the perfect genetic snowflake whose straw nihlism hinges on the fact that he's a failure.

Something the Frost Bros did first and way better.

>>23499332
The main thing that makes people claim that Rau was right was one specific scene where he makes his argument that people are all horrible assholes, and Kira remembers many of the things that happened with his friends in the past. This is the part where normally the hero would recall all the experiences they had that refute the villain's thesis and people rose above their worst impulses. Instead Kira remembers all of the times that everyone he knows was a horrible racist dickhead. Genuinely baffling writing.

>>23499348
>This is the part where normally the hero would recall all the experiences they had that refute the villain's thesis and people rose above their worst impulses
Not only is this something that happens in early in the fight itself, but people are actively proving Rau wrong in real time across the battlefield.
People just like to say Rau has this ironclad point out of contrarianism/spite for SEED.
>>23499332
To be fair, I don't think he was particularly eager about being Al being raised to literally be a perfect copy of someone else.
I don't get the point of comparison between Rau and the Frost Brothers though. Sure, both are motivated by spite, but that describes a LOT of Gundam antagonists.

>>23499354
It's because the Frost Brothers are much more subdued and reserved about their spite. It doesn't come up unless someone pushes the Category F button. People only latch onto Rau because of memes and because hammy acting, which really just proves that all people really want out of a villain is the joker.

>>23499399
Rau wasn't hamming out until he finally decided to fully commit to the omnicide plan, though. Even then, what makes being subdued the inherently better option?
>People only latch onto Rau because of memes and because hammy acting
Hammy acting I agree with, but what memes in particular? I only really remember the one.
>all people really want out of a villain is the joker.
That or a sexy crazy bitch. Bonus points if their dick can fix her.

kira barely beat rau by the skin of his teeth while being a far better pilot than char could ever be and people think their favorite UC pedophile would be able to win

>>23470826
The only thing Rau sniped was Flay's shuttle. The Providence and its DRAGOONs have a total of 46 beam guns that managed to wear down Kira's Freedom, but is at a big disadvantage in close range since it only has one beam saber for close combat which is also part of its shield.

>>23501938
To be fair, shields are pretty strong in CE and Rau certainly wasn't a slouch in close quarters, breaking even and even and even winning some CQC encounters against Kira's Freedom.

>>23477069
Sayla is a highly competent pilot

>>23477121
Also Nu Gundam was a rush job that was retrofitted to incorporate Psycommu tech. Had they more time, they could eventually build Hi-Nu, which is even more of a monster than the Nu ever was.

>>23505631
Nu at least had psycoframe included during construction. Hi-Nu was finished without psycoframe ever being part of the plans. Only later Londo Bell captured and recovered enemy psycoframe which was then added to the Hi-Nu cockpit.

No, I don't know how the Hi-Nu fin funnels were going to work, maybe with some inferior old generation psycommu instead.