Thread 23502820

BUT

This thing has a NUCLEAR REACTOR with enough power to give electricity to 1000 homes. 8,862kw is a shitload of power.
Flying around, swinging a saber, taking potshots with the standard beam? That's like 1 or 2 homes worth of power required, maybe like 5 or 6 in a sustained conflict.

This alpha strike of freedom is totally reasonable within the context of the fiction.

Plus it's not like late UC designs aren't doing this shit constantly, especially MS with funnel systems.

Like, canonically? The Nu Gundam would wipe the floor with the freedom, yet UC purists never seem to shit on CCA or Unicorn or even Hathaway (ugliest Gundam ever)

>>23502820 (OP)
I don’t care much for SEED but the criticisms about beam spam always felt silly, it’s a giant robot show with lots of pretty colors and high tech looking robots, one of the robots being more flashy than usual is just nitpicking.

>>23502820 (OP)
I think you misunderstand the reason people dislike it if you're just talking about in-universe specs.

>>23502820 (OP)
>Like, canonically? The Nu Gundam would wipe the floor with the freedom
Would it? I thought the Freedom had higher acceleration at least.

>>23502820 (OP)
The issue was never the beam spam. The issue was there no one could block it, or even counter attack the Strike Freedom and damage it. This issue was fixed in the Gundam Seed Freedom movie. Plenty of enemies are on the same level as Strike Freedom.

The problem wasn't the logistics of it, it was that Kira using stock footage blasting animation followed by shots of MS getting their limbs blown off was really fucking boring to watch. As Freedom showed, if Destiny had pretty animation and fights that weren't constant looped stock footage people would have loved it

>>23502820 (OP)
The robots are fine, the problem is more the dark crystal like character art.
Even the whole Jesus kira thing is cool.

>>23503041
The other Gundam suits were pretty safe from it, the grunts just didn't have the technology, which I would argue makes sense in canon.
If you think about it, the GINN was a hastily thrown together weapon of war that was designed to fight against mobile armors, which in CE are like really advanced fighter jets. That's why it has the missiles and fires ballistic tank shells from its machine gun. It is a super weapon against tanks, planes, helicopters, infantry and most importantly mobile armors.

The Gundams were created as very expensive cutting edge technology in multiple variants because the EA (and ORB) wanted to find the best way to counter ZAFT mobile suits. They were over engineered and designed to experiment with different weapons loadouts for the purpose of making cheaper general use mass production mobile suits.

The Dagger was made to kill GINNs and BuCues etc. it wasn't made to fight Gundams. It was specifically an anti-zaft suit.

The astray was made off of the Astray frame design and was designed to be an allcomer suit capable of fighting everything *well enough* because ORB had to rush them out the door to protect themselves from both ZAFT and the EA.

The grunts were never meant to take warship grade beams to the cockpit. Most of them could barely survive a large caliber ballistic impact.

My 2c anyways.

>>23503314
That wasn't the critique though, the critique was just how much plot armor Kira had that grunt suits couldn't even put a dent on the Freedom and Strike Freedom.

ESL

I always assumed that the Freedom multi locking was meant to show that it had superior range and was doing HiMAT Fullburst BVR, but it wouldn't look good doing it from the range an F22/J-20 fires from.

Like others have said, the problem with the beamspam was Kira having such thick plot armor together with it. Once Seed Freedom put him up against enemies where he had to work for his win, it was cool.

>>23503611
Grunt suits couldn't put a dent in anyone in a modern Gundam show. That wasn't the problem. The problem is when Legend and Destiny, two Gundam's that also had nuclear power and basically the same technology couldn't put a scratch in the Strike Freedom. Especially compared to the previous finale where OG Freedom got fucked up fighting Providence.

>>23503674
It's pretty clear from the establishing shots everyone is well within visual range in those battles.

>>23503684
Well, it was substantially less bad.

>>23502820 (OP)
8,8 megawatts is rather pathetic though. You could make that with few helicopter gas turbines. I guess it would be decent for some early spacecraft fission powerplants but powering multiple particle beams and railguns takes a bit more than that.

>>23503314
You are on the right track. A more simplified version is

1. EA mass produces Mobius space fighters to kill Zaft ships.

2. ZAFT Ginns were designed to kill Mobius fighters.

3. Five Gundams were designed to kill Zaft Ginns and ships with ease.

4. The Strike Dagger was a cheaper version designed to kill Ginns.

5. The Zaft Freedom and Justice were designed to kill EA's original 5 Gundams

6. Zaft makes the GuAIZ to kill Strike Daggers.

7. EA makes improved Daggers and Windams to counter the Zakus

7.5 - (Zaft makes Second Stage series Gundams to match the old Freedom and Justice. But is limited by batteries)

8. Zaft makes Goufs and Babis to counter these Windams

9. EA says screw this and makes mobile armors like Zamza-Zah and Destroy Gundam to try to end the arms race through overwhelming fire power.

10. ZAFT counters by making the Destiny and Legend Gundam to defeat Destroy Gundams.

11. Team Lacus steps in and interferes. They unleash Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice to counter Destiny and Legend. SF and IJ are like a half-generation better than Destiny and Legend. SF and IJ beat Destiny and Legend - with moderate difficulty.

>>23503684
If you guys are referring to full burst mode specifically, I'm a bit confused. Kira landed a direct hit with that on literally one ace. The rest of the time it's just used to clear out fodder/intercept shit. The way you describe it, you'd think it's the Build Knuckle.
>>23503875
It was cool, fuck you.

The amount of samefagging in this thread is embarassing

>>23504141
Who are you accusing?

>>23503913
>SF and IJ are like a half-generation better than Destiny and Legend.

They're basically the same and use the same technology and were in development at the same time. The only difference is their OS and cockpit designs.

>>23502820 (OP)
The problem isn't that the SF can do that
The problem is that it's basically all the SF is known for

G-Reco did the whole half-hearted-pacifism-trying-not-to-kill-if-I-can thing better because it actually portrays doing that as extremely difficult and undoable most of the time, Bellri is constantly struggling and anxious about minimizing his kills. Meanwhile SEED and Destiny has Kira do it effortlessly all the time to most of the grunts he faces and even to Shinn all of which only serves to jerk off Kiras skill level by showing how superior he is to his pathetic enemies instead of driving home the intended message that pacifism and deescalation are harder than war and conflict.

>>23504194
>They're basically the same and use the same technology and were in development at the same time. The only difference is their OS and cockpit designs.

Maybe but their reactors were clearly different. Destiny had power supply problems. Strike Freedom did not.

>>23504443
nigga that's like claiming only the zudahs that blew up had bad reactors and all the zudahs that didn't must be using different reactor tech

even fukada said they were same reactors

>>23504440
Kira never effortlessly disarms Shinn outside of their literal first confrontation, and even that's mostly owed to the latter being totally blindsided. The struggle to deescalate conflict is still obviously on display too even if he isn't struggling not to kill ever grunt he meets anyway.

>>23504443
>>23504477
I thought the problem was that the Destiny's reactor was improperly tuned or something along those lines. Regardless, it never happened again after that incident. Regardless, I'm pretty sure the Destiny still edges out over the SF/IJ, at least in raw power.

>>23504443
No they canonically have the exact same reactor. And the movie shows that Strike Freedom can have power problems as well it just didn't in Destiny because it didn't need to be pushed as hard.

>>23504477
>>23504545

Much like with the Windam VPS thing, they probably weren't supposed to have the same power source at first (Destiny and Legend still need a charging cable while SF and IJ do not, and their reactors are in totally different spots on the frames) but the seat of their pants design and later decisions ended up making them the same since that was the best way for development to make sense.

>>23504194
Destiny and Legend did not have a phase shift inner frame like SF and IJ.

SF had golden inner frame. IJ had silver inner frame. This allowed both suits to have greater flexibility and response time.

>>23504694
How does that work anyway? You'd think armoring up the joints would be cause for greater restriction. Is the phase shift making the joints tougher so they can be stretched/stressed at lesser cost?
Also, do we know if the Destiny Spec II got the inner frame job?

>>23504524
Theres the obvious implication that Kira could have always beaten Shinn if he "got serious" which is what I meant. Shinn beats the Freedom by exploiting the fact Kira never aims for the cockpit when he isnt fighting some madman to imply that he wouldnt have lost otherwise. It all serves to hype him up as a fighter instead of being conducive to the themes.

>>23503913
>Zaft makes the GuAIZ to kill Strike Daggers.
The GuIAZ project existed before they got the Gundams but a bigger deal was made about beams because ZAFT realized Earth has them better than they realized. Thus the end product ended up stronger by necessity.

>>23503768
He was getting dicked the first time before Athrun rammed Shinn with the IJ. The end battle had way less damage for the whole 3 Ships Alliance side but Shinn nearly his beam cannon ready to blast him on Earth.

>>23504785
>Theres the obvious implication that Kira could have always beaten Shinn if he "got serious"
Which just paints Kira as an idiot for being so unserious that he got his nuclear powered trump card wrecked, and almost got himself killed. Not to mention all the Orb pilots that later got slaughtered when Shinn showed up in the Destiny, but before he was intercepted by Akatsuki then the Strike Freedom.

>>23504443
Strike Freedom has the same power problems that Destiny had in the movie. Hyper-Deuterion MS like Destiny and Strike Freedom are constantly regenerating power for their deuterion battery, but they can still run out of the power in the battery if they use too much at once. Kira in the show never fought a battle where he was in significant danger, so he never really needed to push the Strike Freedom, whereas Shinn was constantly spamming his Wings of Light and overtaxing the Destiny's battery faster than his reactor could refill it.

>>23504785
>>23504840
>>23504524
I don't care what anyone says. This is shitty writing under any light.

>>23502820 (OP)
>Hathaway (ugliest Gundam ever)
Naw, More charming than freedom

>>23504635
The charging cable has always been optional, it is just to keep the suit topped off at 100% when it leaves the ship. When Legend and Destiny take off for the very first time from the base hangar, they don't have the cable plugged in either, but you're right about them having it plugged in when launching from the Minerva. I guess If it doesn't have the charging cable to keep it at full then maybe it's sortieing with 95% battery or something. It's nice to have a full battery, but doesn't necessarily win or lose the battle in most cases.

>>23504710
It's not making the joints thicker. Phase shift just makes the material stronger and more resistant to wear and tear and damage.

>Also, do we know if the Destiny Spec II got the inner frame job?
I actually can't even remember if SF and IJ type 2 have them or show them in the movie either.

>>23504785
>Theres the obvious implication that Kira could have always beaten Shinn if he "got serious" which is what I meant.
Athrun does seem to take the fight at Angel down as a farce/shock, that much is true. That said, SEED Destiny's entire thing is that in battles against aces, the thing that matters most is willpower. Kira (who reflects that he was hesitating on fighting ZAFT when talking about the fight) lost more to Shinn's unyielding rage than he did to any exploit (although the silhouette spam does work as a good visualization of Shinn's resolve). That absolutely works for the themes.

>>23504934
Because...?

>>23504141
Wait? That was a one person conversation? The whole time?...SeedCHADs not like this!! NO

>>23504968
Don't put characters in situations where they would clearly get killed, but don't because of writer fiat.

>>23504973
Kira's go-to fighting style is writer fiat?

>>23504843
You're basically right but clarification: the reactor supplies enough energy to run the suit, and anything excess goes into the battery. When the energy required is more than the reactor's moment-to-moment output, or when the reactor needs to be shut down, that's when the battery kicks in. The old idea I've seen bandied about where the suit runs off the battery which is fed by the reactor isn't strictly correct.

>>23504785
There are far more factors to Angel Down than just that. Kira was trying to avoid killing anybody from ZAFT to avoid more bad PR. He had been fighting for a while whereas Shinn was fresh. Kira's number one priority was protecting the Archangel to the point where he's willing to completely turn his back on Shinn when it's in danger.

>>23504934
I just think you don't understand that scene. What do you think is happening there? Why does Kira use the railguns? Why does Shinn say what he says?>>23504785

>>23504986
Shinn's own words are telling you that he would've died if Kira had fired beams at the Destiny. In other words, instead of making the battle interesting on its own merits. he's put in a deadly situation that really isn't.

>>23502820 (OP)
>>23502829
You misunderstand why people disliked SEED's beam spam.

It wasn't a lore issue. It was because the animation looked terrible and lazy.

90% of the time SEED's battles heavily abuse reused footage or genga.
The choreography was ass.

No one complains about beams in 00 or AGE or UC because those shows have great battle animation.

>>23505001
>Shinn's own words are telling you that he would've died if Kira had done something that goes against his established character
Again, failing to see the issue here.

>>23505001
The railguns were the only option Strike Freedom realistically had in that moment. Shinn interprets their use as a personal insult, because he's not thinking rationally.

>>23505033
>realistically
He could've killed that little shit right then and there, but doesn't because he's a fag (and the plot demands the characters still be there, even if the writing is SCREAMING that they're seconds away from dying).

>Shinn interprets their use as a personal insult
And he's right. Kira does not take the battlefield seriously. He never has, up until it's time to wrap things up.

>>23505016
No one remembers AGE in the first place, and I hardly ever see anyone talk about 00 outside of Setsuna x Exia memes.

>>23505016
>No one complains about beams in 00 or AGE or UC because those shows have great battle animation.
They also DON'T over-reuse stock footage unlike sneed.

>>23505040
He couldn't have. The Calidus could have caused the Destiny to violently explode in Kira's face. The vulcans would do nothing. The beam rifles were too unwieldy to intercept quickly. He didn't have time to toss the rifles and then grab the sabers and then block. The only safe option for Kira to counterattack was the railguns, which while it didn't damage the Destiny, Shinn still felt the full force in the cockpit. That he wasn't instantly knocked out is, if anything, plot armor on his end.

>>23505066
>The Calidus could have caused the Destiny to violently explode in Kira's face. The vulcans would do nothing. The beam rifles were too unwieldy to intercept quickly. He didn't have time to toss the rifles and then grab the sabers and then block.
You care more about the technical minutae than anyone that wrote for the series. Don't you remember Fukuda's bullshit explanation as to why Mwu survived a Lohengrin shot to the face? Shit happens (and doesn't happen) because the plot says so.

>>23505066
He didn't even have the rifles on hand to begin with.

>>23505075
The show didn't just happen by accident, people behind the scenes did put some thought into some aspects of it, as rushed as it might have been.

>>23505078
Yeah, he tosses them up into the air when Shinn rushes him.

>>23505066
Anon, at a certain point you have to let things go. The guy you're talking to clearly isn't looking to argue in good faith.

>>23505084
>people behind the scenes did put some thought into some aspects of it
And it's irrelevant when the writer and director simply do not care. Also, the "thought and care" is usually dumped in databooks written after the series' conclusion, meaning that they had little (or no) weight in the story's actual writing.

>>23505093
I only just hopped in the thread.

>>23505096
I explained the scene to you in plain English. If you deliberately choose not to understand it and make weird excuses instead, that’s on you. Not a failing of SEED Destiny’s.

>>23505107
Let's put it this way: I'm as angry as Shinn is when I see that scene.
For further context, we have all the instances where Kira and Athrun could've butchered the druggies, but didn't. Or the times that Phase Shift gets beaten by physical weapons.

>>23505075
You fucking retard, you just defeated your own point.

>>23505123
Try to let the irrational anger go and engage with the story with an open mind. You might be surprised.

>>23505123
>Picrel
The Justice is literally repelled back by a mini explosion the second Athrun gets close enough to land anything.

>>23505066
>The Calidus could have caused the Destiny to violently explode in Kira's face.

Kira could get clear in barely a second like he did with Rau after stabbing him and Destroy after stabbing it. At worst he'd mess up catching his rifles and have to fish them out of the water later on.

>>23505135
Get clear of a potential nuclear explosion in a second?

>>23505134
>literally repelled back by a mini explosion
No, you dumb sack of shit. The Justice is actively pushing the druggie's chest beam back towards it, then moving back. The glow you see is the beam proper, not an "explosion". It would've been zero effort for Athrun to stab him with the beam saber that was already drawn.
Do I have to make a fucking WEBM now?

And what about this one?

>>23505123
>>23505144
This has literally nothing to do with the Destiny scene

>>23504949
>I actually can't even remember if SF and IJ type 2 have them or show them in the movie either.

They do, but they're not as prominently sparkly as they were in the show.

>>23504710
Yes, Destiny’s joints glow red.

>>23505134
hahahaha are you serious this isn't a turn based game just fucking shoot again or move closer

>>23505144
We have flashing unstable light, a literal "boom" sound effect, and the Justice suddenly moving back really fast. It's definitely an explosion, you disingenuous mongoloid.
>And what about this one?
Most sane people would be at least a little baffled watching three drug addicts crash out on the battlefield.
>>23505158
There was a guy a couple months back who'd pull the same shit. He'd make a fuss about something, get called out, then abandon that talking point to see the about something else only to get the same result until he left to do the same thing in another thread. Not sure if this is the same guy, though.

>>23505189
>Shoot again
He didn't have his rifle out to begin with and the Raider closes in to defend a second later.

>>23505192
Seethe*

>>23505192
I rewatched the scene. The Justice had had more than enough time to swing the beam saber (which, again, IT WAS ALREADY DRAWN) and stab the faggot in the left side while the other hand was blocking the beam.

>Most sane people would be at least a little baffled watching three drug addicts crash out on the battlefield.
Kira and Athrun don't know anything about them, other that those are dangerous units that suddenly stopped shooting for unknown reasons. Why aren't they firing back?

>>23505198
he has the lifter's twin beam guns and there's nothing stopping him from just being more lethal and doing something WHILE approaching with the shield

>>23505237
>there's nothing stopping him from just being more lethal and doing something WHILE approaching with the shield
If you look at >>23505237, even if the body was being covered by the shield, he could've used the lifter's plasma guns to shoot at the cannons. Piece of cake for a supposed elite pilot, since the druggies always shoot while moving.
Also, Kira was defending Athrun during his close engagement, so "oh no raider is approaching to defend" isn't an excuse either. That's the point of having a wingman.

>>23505144
>>23505123
I think many of you forgot that Gundam mobile suits can self-destruct in Seed. So pilots have to at least be a little cautious before diving head first for a lethal blow.

If you examine all 6 times they fought the Druggies, Kira and Athrun don't go for the lethal attack unless they are 100% sure the attack is a fatal killing strike that will hit the cockpit. Otherwise it's usually a "hit and dash away" attack that Athrun and Kira use.

And even when you do hit their cockpit, the suit still explodes (just not as powerful as a self destruct), and you still need to back up a bit to avoid the blast.

>>23505227
A beam saber strike isn't enough to guarantee a kill in Seed. We've seen cockpits take a beam saber slash and all it did was slice the cockpit door open (Strike VS Aegis). Or when Destroy Gundam cockpit got slashed but the pilot still survived.

>>23505291
not good enough reason since that never happens

>>23505227
>More than enough time
He had a second, and the beam wasn't just going to politely wait for him to finish before exploding. Even if he had done as you said, the ensuing explosion would have still thrown off his swing.
>Kira and Athrun don't know anything about them
They were literally just firing at each other five seconds ago before suddenly stopping. They knew enough about them to wonder what their fuck their problem was.
>>23505237
>he has the lifter's twin beam guns
The Raider's still there, Anon. Even then, the shot up close would be awkward to land.
> there's nothing stopping him from just being more lethal and doing something WHILE approaching with the shield
Except the maneuver that is currently taking all his focus.
>>23505271
Firstly, moving goalposts. Secondly, Athrun literally got in this position bailing Kira out, who's stunned like everyone else that Athrun's reckless move paid off. Clotho moves in to attack first, Kira snaps out of it at this point to intercept.

>>23505305
>that never happens
So we're just making shit up now?

>>23505291
>Gundam mobile suits can self-destruct in Seed
You have to activate the self-destruction manually. So no, the "danger" you're babbling about isn't a thing in a combat situation. Aegis had hooked itself to the Strike, which had lost an arm already.

>>23505298
A direct stab is not the same as a slash.

>>23505291
That only ever happened once with Miguel vs the dozen or so other times Kira went for the kill in Strike with zero hesitation of worrying about the enemy self destructing. I don't think that was the reason.

>>23502820 (OP)
I always love how some people will just a criticism and then just not understand it at all

>>23505315
If anything Kira should worry about that with all his non lethal attacks not fatal ones. If you destroy the cockpit the pilot won't be alive to self destruct.

>>23505306
>He had a second
We've seen Kira and Athrun act even faster, so no, that isn't an excuse.

>the ensuing explosion would have still thrown off his swing.
What fucking swing? Just shove the saber on the side.

>to wonder what their fuck their problem was
It's a combat situation. You don't "wonder" at what the enemy is doing, just shoot back.

>The Raider's still there
And what the fuck does that have to do with anything? He's engaging that other guy. If anything, this is more of a reason to move in guns blazing.

>Even then, the shot up close would be awkward to land.
See >>23505271

>Except the maneuver that is currently taking all his focus.
Just fire the fucking cannons at the enemy while approaching. How is that so difficult?

>who's stunned like everyone else that Athrun's reckless move paid off
Except for the fact that he didn't go for the killing stab with the beam saber and just disengaged as soon as he finished blocking. The only consequence is getting the shield a bit burnt.

>>23505048
>I hardly ever see anyone talk about 00
Outside of /m/? who cares all the decent discussion is here

>>23505315
>You have to activate the self-destruction manually. So no, the "danger" you're babbling about isn't a thing in a combat situation

Why are you typing the OPPOSITE of what your GIF is showing? Athrun is literally in a combat situation and blows up Aegis in Kira's face. Did you seriously think you have a "gotcha" or something? You just disproved yourself.

>>23505317
>I don't think that was the reason.
It isn't. And the Strike wasn't damaged when Miguel's GINN exploded just meters away, apart from a few scuffs on the chassis that did not affect its combat operation.

>>23505347
If your suit doesn't have phase shift, then you are toast. Even then it's not a good idea to risk standing next to an explosion.

>>23505342
With "combat situation", I meant a dogfight. Aegis clawing itself to the Strike is a thing only that unit could do in a desperate situation for Athrun. Miguel did it because Strike only stabbed at the head and needed to escape quickly and create a distraction.
Outside of that specific situation, nobody does attacks with the self-destruction mechanism because the pilot escaping would been a dead giveaway. Even those Ash pilots could've tried to dogpile the Freedom and damage it with the self-destructs; but no, they engaged with their weapons and only killed themselves to leave no living evidence of ZAFT's involvement.

>>23505335
>We've seen Kira and Athrun act faster
While holding a beam at bay?
>What fucking swing?
The point is that the beam's gonna explode on Athrun as he's making the move and the Raider's gonna be on his ass while he's making that move too if he lingers.
>You don't "wonder" at what the enemy is doing, just shoot back
The goalposts have again sprouted legs.
>And what the fuck does that have to do with anything?
Are you retarded or trolling? The Raider is still there to intercept Athrun. The Raider's not currently engaging anyone since his last move was just to push Kira back and line him up for Orga's attack either.
>See
see
>>23505306
>Just fire the fucking cannons at the enemy while approaching.
The beam in his face screwing up his line of sight, the beam actively pushing against him, the knowledge that the slightest mistake will fuck up his leverage with the shield and potentially get him (and everyone else) killed? He had to enter SEED mode to do this for a reason.

>>23505407
all invalid because hypotheticals

>>23505412
>No argument
Fuck off

>>23505407
>While holding a beam at bay?
While evading shit all around them, which is more difficult to pull off than just "pushing forward with the shield against a straight beam".

>The point is that the beam's gonna explode on Athrun as he's making the move
Why? He's covering himself with the shield. If he goes for the kill, an explosion would happen regardless. Either take the chance and engage or stop pussyfooting around. What you actually want is for Athrun to snipe them from kilometers away and eliminate any risk that he could possibly be damaged.

>The goalposts have again sprouted legs.
Make an actual argument or shut up.

>The Raider is still there to intercept Athrun.
And Kira is there to cover Athrun. What's the argument here? "Won't attack if it is too hot?" Tough shit: this is a fucking war. At least killing the druggie closes a dangerous vector right then and there, instead of prolonging the risk to himself and the rest of his afaction.

>(and everyone else) killed?
Now you're exaggerating to make a point.

>He had to enter SEED mode to do this for a reason.
And he pulled much more complicated stunts before and after. Why is "swing arm, stab druggie gundam in the side" so difficult?

Where the hell did this "Kira and Athrun don't make aggressive moves against the druggies because they're pussies and afraid something bad might happen if they get too close" come from all of a sudden?

>>23505437
>Kira and Athrun don't make aggressive moves against the druggies because they're pussies and afraid something bad might happen if they get too close
That's the diegetic ("in-universe") explanation. And it's bullshit. And the alternative explanation ("Kira and Athrun are too pussy to kill their enemies") is even bigger bullshit.

>the story can't kill off the main annoying foes in gundams up until the climax.
That's the non-diegetic ("from the writer's perspective") explanation. And it's bullshit because other shows have done it. As much as I hate Ali, he did the right thing and offed of two out of three of those worthless Trinity pukes.

>>23502820 (OP)
>This thing has a NUCLEAR REACTOR with enough power to give electricity to 1000 homes. 8,862kw is a shitload of power.
>Flying around, swinging a saber, taking potshots with the standard beam? That's like 1 or 2 homes worth of power required, maybe like 5 or 6 in a sustained conflict.
That's not a lot if you actually knew what you were talking about.

This is the McDonnell F-4 Phantom II, the very best of 1950s aviation technology and proof that even a brick can fly if you put enough thrust in it. The US model is powered by two General Electric J79 jet engines (Brits used their own engines in their units).

>>23505469 (cont'd)
This is the GE LM1500, a derivative of the J79 for electricity and marine power generation. A single one of these powerplants can provide 11,500 kW of electricity, enough to power about 2,800 households.
And the Phantom has two of these mounted on its fuselage.

>>23505429
>While evading shit all around them
So it's retardation after all. Firstly, even if we argued that doing that WAS in fact harder than the beam tank, it wouldn't matter unless we agreed that both tasks were difficult for the same reasons.
We have a force plainly slowing the Justice down, both on account of force and Athrun trying his damnedest not to get burn vs Athrun taking out opponents with full range of motion granted to him in a high speed MS. Do you not see the difference?
>Why?
What do you mean "why?" It's literally what happens in the show and none of your fanfic scenarios actually work around that. While Athrun's moving to stab or swing or whatever, the beam will explode like it always does because nothing's changed to influence that. Because the explosion from the beam will still happen, the force of it will still send him back and screw up the aim of his stab/attack.
>Make an actual argument or shut up.
ZAFT trained Athrun to deal with foolish/bloodthirsty naturals, not insane asylum escapees, and Kira's hardly a trained soldier. As such, your statement misses the mark for Athrun and my own original argument still applies fine for both him and Kira.
>And Kira is there to cover Athrun.
Kira literally just got saved in this immediate context and canonically responded to defend Athrun after the Raider made his move.
>Won't attack if it is too hot?" Tough shit: this is a fucking war.
Do you have something of value to say besides retarded platitudes? My argument was that this missed opportunity you're pissing your pants about wasn't a thing and even if he wanted to capitalize AFTER or during, he would have gotten forced back by the Raider like he did in the show.
Even if my point was that it was too risky, your response is effectively to say that potentially getting fucked up to kill one druggie is worth it.
>Now you're exaggerating to make a point.
It's a nuclear Gundam and the Archangel at the very least is well within exploding distance.

>>23505490
>the beam will explode like it always does because nothing's changed to influence that.
>the force of it will still send him back and screw up the aim of his stab/attack.
He'd make the stab before the beam "explodes". There's enough time for him in >>23505227 to do that. How long do you think a beam saber's stab takes to pull?
You are telling me that Athrun Zala, one of the top five pilots in this whole story, simply cannot use its arm to do a basic stabbing on the side of an MS while blocking.

>ZAFT trained Athrun to deal with foolish/bloodthirsty naturals, not insane asylum escapees
What's the difference? He's facing dangerous pilots regardless. You think he cared when he was against the Extended in Destiny?

>and Kira's hardly a trained soldier
Oh, no. You don't get to play this card after all the stunts he pulls on the Freedom.

>and even if he wanted to capitalize AFTER or during, he would have gotten forced back by the Raider like he did in the show.
Why is this relevant if he had gotten a kill? Move to block, use the closeup to stab the bastard, disengage when cover appears.

>your response is effectively to say that potentially getting fucked up to kill one druggie is worth it.
Define "fucked up". He defended pretty well against the druggies. At best, he would've gotten the Justice a bit banged up in the process: lose a limb, head, weapons, backpack, whatever. He's gotten kills with missing limbs and Justice/Freedom are very sturdy. Which is, by the way, more than what could be said when Kira unsuccessfully tried to rescue Fllay's capsule, got the Freedom decapitated in the process and none of the druggies were touched.

>It's a nuclear Gundam and the Archangel at the very least is well within exploding distance.
The only instance of a meltdown is Impulse stabbing Freedom square in the chest. None of the other attacks against a nuclear Gundam (Providence obliterating Freedom, Destiny's finale) has ever ended with a critical explosion.

>>23505517
>He'd make the stab before the beam "explodes".
Where is this leverage you're imagining that Athrun has to even do that? He can't reach ahead to do a stab as he's coming in because he has the beam to mind and he can't afford to move the Justice too much until he reaches ground zero (and the beam's still against him even then). He has half a second to adjust himself once he reaches ground zero and then in that last half second he can make for the stab from that awkward angle, which leads again to the whole "explosion pushing him back" thing.
>What's the difference?
The fact that the escapees can't be understood at all. Like, we literally see this vex Athrun in particular. It's not a secret.
>You think he cared when he was against the Extended in Destiny?
The Extendeds were nowhere near as crazy, and he still tried to handle them non-lethally. Even if they would have been, the Extendeds could never be his first run in with crazies in mobile suits, so of course he wouldn't be as thrown off by them.
>He piloted a mobile suit really good so that suddenly means he's a trained soldier!
This doesn't even make sense as an argument for you to make when you highlight him losing his head over Flay later in the same post.
>Why is this relevant if he had gotten a kill?
Clotho see stab motion, Raider stop Athrun. Kira too shocked to intercept in time, so Athrun gets pushed back, just like in canon.
>None of the other attacks against a nuclear Gundam (Providence obliterating Freedom, Destiny's finale) has ever ended with a critical explosion.
The Providence got caught in the Genesis explosion like a second after it got stabbed, and the Destiny/Legend both got disabled.

>>23505474
That's the wrong kind of autism for this board anon

Your effort is appreciated and I salute you, but this is the silly Chinese cartoons board