Thread 23561687

How do you make Zeon interesting again? I mean we know theyre always gonna milk the fuck out of them in UC but seriously there's only so much you can squeeze out of "WW2 Germany but in spess" or "Muh spacenoid independence."

Whats your suggestion on having a new or refreshing take on the Zeeks?

Zeon version of Atomwaffen Division. Burn it all, earth and colony included. Those who survive the cataclysm will be born again as Newtypes and rebuild civilization from the ashes of the rotten old type system and their social contracts.

Zabis get ipad.

The real question is how to make the federation as interesting as Zeon. League Militaire almost gets there but their machines are still the same boring GM-derivatives.

>>23561818
Make em into a dysfunctional alliance of 4 distinct powers that are distinct looking and have distinct doctrines of waging war. And also petty power grab shenanigans that impede the war effort. They hate each other but they hate the threat from space more.

The Americas and Japan and Australia being your typical capitalist neoliberal democracy with the typical GM and Anaheim inspired designs

Mainland Asia being Communist inspired. With designs invoking Red Guard mech aesthetic
Russia and Europe being Nationaliatic bloc that blends medieval knight and colonial era designs into their mechs

Africa and MENA being Assymetric warfare inspired mech designs. Like snipers that have a mirage colliad or armor that disguises as harmless asteroids until its too late.

It makes more sense than just one but world gov with no distinctions despite our millenia long conflicts between the clashes of different cultural civilizations.
And yeah it does sound G Gundam inspired but not as Flanderized just subtle but distinct enough that you can tell em apart. Just like the real UN

>>23561746
The problem is this isn't that far off from what Neo Zeo was trying to do in Char's counter attack, also Zoltan in Narrative is kind of like that too.
>>23562208
SEED almost does this with the Earth Alliance but its nowhere near as interesting as what you're describing still even if its a step in the right direction. Personally I'd make Russia/Eurasia more Nazbol, sort of in between the Nationalist Europe and the Communist east asia you're describing with Neo Soviet sort of aesthetic with some Slavic Pagan/Orthodoxy symbolism here and there.

>>23562208
I have something like this as my personal autistic headcannon setting for my MSIA collection:
>The White Base and all crew and suits are destroyed early on, OYW drags out for almost a decade
>With the massive loss of life, economic damage, and climate damage to Earth and destruction of several Sides the EF's grip on mankind has crumbled but not collapsed
>Eastern North America, South America, Western Europe, and some Lunar Settlements still firmly in Fed control, i.e. mostly OWY Federation. GM derivatives, Type 61s, Balls, Guntanks, Guncannons. Fed units are common in Europe and SE Asia as allied support
>Parts of Europe and Side 7 use OZ mobile suits. The Earth Sphere Alliance, previously a minor political bloc within the Federation, has become a far more powerful voice on Earth as the war dragged on. Backed by the aristocratic Romefeller Foundation, the ESA develops the Leo and Tallgeese variants through industrial espionage/tech sharing with mainline Federation. The baseline Leo is mosty on the GM, with advanced Tallgeese variants said to be based on stolen Gundam designs. The ESA maintains neutrality between the Federation and Zeon, though border skirmishes are frequent between all three factions.
>Caliphate of Saud uses Maganacs. The Caliphate has recently declared independence from both the Earth Federation and Zeonic occupation. Their mobile suit tech is primary based on reverse engineered Zeon suits but incorporates advances "borrowed" from OZ and Fed designs. Both Zeon and the Federation tolerate the Caliphate as a buffer zone between Zeonic Africa and mainland Europe
>Principality of Zeon. Pretty much the same as OYW, but with a few more advanced designs thrown in. After Operation British, Zeon forces occupy much of North America, Europe, and SE Asia. Operation Odessa sees Zeon forced out of Eastern Europe, but a third landing operation sees Zeon forces reinforce Africa.

>>23562350
As far i can tell Neo Zeon wasnt discriminatory against their own spacenoids or newtypes. The group i mentioned would also equally target them for miscegenation and betraying the Zabis by agreeing to surrendering or being defeatist. They'd gas all the colonies and axis drop earth. Atomwaffen unironically calls themselves the heralds of the apocalypse

>>23561687 (OP)
They become Space Germany, become a legitimate peaceful power in Space to rival the EF while earth fragments into factions with Zeon and Titan larpers spearheading their territories

>>23562350
Char was sacrificing himself to evolve Humanity and save the Earth. Don't you dare compare him to the piece of shit Accelerationists we have.

>>23563638
>>23562208
>>23561746
This thread reminds me why im glad you fuckers dont write for the series

>>23564224
Theres not much of a high bar given the recent series

>>23561687 (OP)
ReZeon wrangling the shit out of the other factions trying to keep them from doing a terrorism and setting them back another few decades AGAIN

>>23563638
>OYW goes on for 10 years
>Zeon and Fed tech is somehow worse than it is by Zeta

>>23565843
I'm one of those people who are annoyed with just how fast tech progresses in the movie & anime OYW. They go from Zaku IIs being hot shit to Gelgoogs in like 9 months. Maybe my headcannon setting is more based on the novel where Amuro dies and Zeon only had Zakus and Doms during the way.

>>23561687 (OP)
I'd have a series that explores what the UC in general would be like under a Zeon victory with the increasing factionalism and tensions building therin, imagine that!
Alternatively, a farther off version off that that after countless powergrabs, downfalls, uprisings, it's all just referenced as a morass and literally anybody could be in power at the moment. This would only serve to answer the retarded questions from retarded people (me) of what (a) Zeon would have done against the non-Zeon threats of late UC (and of course making new mobile suits that may or may not be analogous to the Federation's in the normal UC, using the new technology of the times for the zeekwankers)

>>23565972
Tech progression in the OYW is fast but this is the reverse and borderline stasis.
You gave everyone a reason to never stop wartime levels of production and Zeon 10 whole years to cement their control over their Earth possessions and start bringing those industrial lines over to Zeon mobile suits.
They should be pumping out Dom and Gelgoog descendants by UC 0089.

>>23565972
>Maybe my headcannon setting is more based on the novel where Amuro dies and Zeon only had Zakus and Doms during the way.
reminder that doms are the endgame unit in the 0079 novels because they are armed with beam sabers and beam bazookas as standard weapons

Keep in mind that this is all in regards to my personal headcannon for the toys sitting on my shelf
>>23566298
>reminder that doms are the endgame unit in the 0079 novels because they are armed with beam sabers and beam bazookas as standard weapons
Yes, though see below
>>23566283
>Tech progression in the OYW is fast but this is the reverse and borderline stasis.
Kinda sorta. Looking at later Cold War weapons development, you've got 50 year old designs that are still in service. The airframe/mobile suit design may be old but weapons they use are upgraded and internal parts would have incremental improvements. Having a unit be obsolete after 5 months or less just seems ridiculous
>You gave everyone a reason to never stop wartime levels of production and Zeon 10 whole years to cement their control over their Earth possessions and start bringing those industrial lines over to Zeon mobile suits.
Maybe Zeon produced a shitton of Zakus early on that are still in service. Maybe they went for a high/low setup where Zakus fill the occupation role for these territories while Doms and Gelgoogs are the F35 and F22 analogues. Maybe in my setting Doms are ground use only and Gelgoogs are an expensive wonder-unit that can do ground and space, but are due to cost are more like special forces units
>They should be pumping out Dom and Gelgoog descendants by UC 0089.
They may well be, but also maybe a Zaku machinegun with a beam-infused HEAT warhead is perfectly capable of puncturing Luna Titanium.

That's not getting into the Federation side. There's all kinds of GM variants that could be in use, up to GM IIs, GM customs, and GM ground-types. I also don't like Gundams themselves, so changing the setting to focus on grunt suits is fun to me.

>>23566338
>Keep in mind that this is all in regards to my personal headcannon for the toys sitting on my shelf
Lock in and go all the way. Start kitbashing alt-future suits.

>>23566338
there's a bunch of scenarios to support thinking like that. E.g., UC Engage posits that due to the proliferation of cheap subflight platforms like the Dodai and Base Jabber, aerial combat is now a part of earth-side MS combat. During Gryps era, the Feds tried to develop TMS/TMA and also non-transforming models like the Byarlant and later the Byarlant Custom series as air superiority models to counter them, but production of high end TMA/TMS and air superiority MS could never equal cheap flying platforms for regular MS, so they bring back some old suits like GM Sniper types with enhanced backpack sensors to act as dedicated anti-air platforms. OYW beams are still useful, and a external camera upgrade to bring their sensors and avionics on par with new MS is a cheap and easy fix for a support fire and anti-air unit that is otherwise mostly unchanged from when it was in the OYW.

https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/RGM-79SQ_GM_Shooter

>Yes, though see below
>Having a unit be obsolete after 5 months or less just seems ridiculous
That's how it was for WWI and WWII fighters. Each side would develop a new fighter that would render older ones less effective. It's not quite that the older machine is useless obsolete when newer machines became available, but sending older models out against newer enemies ran the risk of incurring greater losses. Pilot skill and luck plays a good chunk of battlefield success, but generally speaking a Zaku can kill a GM, but it has to work harder for the same kill if a that GM happens to be armed with a beam rifle rather than a cheap machine gun. Same goes for if the GM has a machine gun and it's going up against a Gelgoog.

>>23566338
>Kinda sorta. Looking at later Cold War weapons development, you've got 50 year old designs that are still in service.
That was specific to the more peacetime nature of the Cold War though. OYW is doing WWII in space. If you really want a cold war analogue the feds should have been forced to sign a humiliating peace treaty that cements Zeon control of North America and Africa. If they’re actively fighting the entire time, mobile suits are going to become obsolete much more frequently.
At least in the Leos case, we know it’s a phenomenal generalist that can survive years worth of internal upgrades with minimal changes.

>>23566381
>about that

>>23566404
Forgot my description, that's my somewhat kitbashed GM II built off of different MSIA parts.

Pic related was made out of a Char's Zaku that got chewed up by a dog when I was a kid that I've Rit Dyed and replaced some cables on. I think of it as a field-expedited repair, maybe the shoulder armor is piece of heatshield taken from a Komusai for improvised beam protection.

>>23566389
True about the WWII analogue for the show itself, but I just don't care for it myself. In modern times we don't see brand new aircraft (the closest thing in complexity to a mobile suit) or tanks deployed each month. They take years to test and develop. And that's what I like about my headcannon. Yes, a Zaku II is slightly inferior to a GM, but a GM doesn't automatically beat a Zaku in any scenario. Same for a GM vs a Gelgoog.
>>23566397
>That was specific to the more peacetime nature of the Cold War though. OYW is doing WWII in space. If you really want a cold war analogue the feds should have been forced to sign a humiliating peace treaty that cements Zeon control of North America and Africa. If they’re actively fighting the entire time, mobile suits are going to become obsolete much more frequently.
In my mind, the war has settled into a stalemate with settled lines, somewhat like the trenches of WWI. The One Year War is viewed much like the One Week Battle was in terms of destructiveness compared to the rest of the conflict. Let's say that the Federation fleet won Solomon, but was much more exhausted than it was in the main timeline. They didn't have the forces left to attack A Baoa Que, allowing Zeon time to regroup and make another landing in Africa. But then you have also have the Earth Sphere Alliance declaring neutrality and arming itself against both sides. The Federation may have been leery about overextending again with the possibility of a second front opening up.

>>23566413
>In my mind, the war has settled into a stalemate with settled lines, somewhat like the trenches of WWI
While I think this is a fine position to take, the entirety of 1915 to early 1918 was everyone trying to develop new technology to try and break the stalemate. Project V was in itself a way to break the stalemate the OYW had fallen into.
Cool kitbash though.

Didn't Tomino or someone involved say they want Gundam to move on and start being more inspired from the irl geopolitical situation?
Imo it should be a conflict between two democracies. Most if not all nations today even the autocratic ones have some parliament and various parties, even if theyre all pawns for the autocrat,plutocrats or oligarchs theyre still there because with the fall of the wall in 91 the phrase "the end of history" became common. As all other ideologies had been defeated. Even the DPRK has parties in its one party state and has a people's congress or whatever the reds call their parliament.

Point is. They all posture themselves as democratic.
So Zeon should be a democracy. One the mimics the "Sovereign Democracy" that The Global South or East has been championing.
Gundam should adapt to today's type of geopolitical conflicts. Rather than the WW2 esque or Cold War type thing with Zeon or whatever spacenoid stand in.
It should draw upon the current division of nations behind the backing of Multilateral world order that the West supports vs a MultiPolar world order that the global south and east support.
Rather than some fucking co prosperity sphere or whatever dumbshit Full Frontal was talking about

>>23566516
that sounds boring like real life

do they at least have cool costumes?

>>23566531
WW2 was depressing until Tomino added giant robots. So I think the Giant robot thing will solve that issue of boredom

>>23566404
Just wanted to say that I have those tanks too anon

Yeah

>>23562208
Like that other anon I've also been casually workshopping a combined Gundam setting that's basically just "let me play with all my toys"
>Takes place in late UC 3000s
>Galactic spanning settings
>most factions from all timelines are represented in some way, (eg: EFF, Sanc, Orb, Arbrau, etc) coexist. The Federation is the center of galactic politics and the main superpower but there are independent countries outside of it than just Zeon and other colony revolts
>One Year War spans four years, White Base's journey takes place during the latter two years
>Operation Stardust coincides with the Bloody Valentine War
>Gryps Conflict runs concurrently with the plots of SEED Destiny, Wing, and IBO Season 1
>AEUG are an alliance consisting of the main faction, Karaba, Takkedan, the Colony Liberation Organization, and ORB, same with the Titans and their analogues
>I don't know where I would fit AD and AG in this

>>23566516
Everyone thought you had to rule with an iron fist and make up shit like the mandate of heaven or divine right of kings or whatever and instead you could just give the plebes a vote, then ignore whatever they asked for and do what you had planned anyway.

>>23562208
Dougram

>>23566963
>a combined Gundam setting that's basically just "let me play with all my toys"
I absolutely hate this and you should feel bad for considering it

>>23566963
Put the Vagan colony near a black hole instead of Mars to explain the space cancer

>>23561687 (OP)
By instead writing about Cosmo Babylonia or the Jupiter Empire or really any other fucking major Spacenoid supremacist faction in Gundam instead.

>>23563638
Very fun, a longer OYW is such a fun thing to consider

>>23561818
>corporate doubledealers in Anaheim
>legally untouchable warmongers devolving into Zeon levels of brutality in their own abuse of power in the Titans
>disgruntled spacers and federation officers banding to fight back against said warmongers in the AEUG
>unhappy and powerless members of a now oppressive state like the Circe Unit
>implying the GM and its descendants are boring when we have gems like the GM Sniper, part of the Blue Destiny line, the Ground Gundams, the Jegan and the Gustav Karl
Not only you are wrong, you also have shit taste.

>>23566531
France does at least

>>23567510
>>23563638
A longer OYW would ABSOLUTELY turn humanity into rabid wolves. Think about it. What has Contolism and the Feds NeoLiberalism brought the world? The near extinction of the earth and the human race. War would be all some generations would know.

Some REAL schizo ideologies would.
Like Anhiliationist type Rau Le Creuset type shit. IRL example would be from the years of lead in Italy giving birth to Nazi-Maoism. Apocalyptic cults like Mansons Helter Skelter, and Jim Jones. The carnage in Iraq giving birth to to Jund As-Samāʾ. War weariness is a thing. But the flames of war also tends to produce Atilla The Hun types
>From where I go, the grass shall never grow ever again

UC may be cursed as it is. But a prolonged OYW would send it into dystopian levels. Imo I already think UC is too tame. No way that much conflict on scale would not produce some of the most extreme and violent groups. Cause again. What has Contolism and Federations centrism brought them? Violence and war is all they ever known and their brought into a world that immediately has robbed them of any future or prosperity. That sows the seeds of pure hate and lunacy

>>23567988
>But a prolonged OYW would send it into dystopian levels.
I mean its really downplayed but UC is already dystopian. Like 4-8 billion people have died, megacities like New York are lifeless ruins, and a chunk of a continent is gone as of the OWY. IIRC two entire sides are wiped out and the Earth is wracked by natural disasters.

>>23567988
>But a prolonged OYW would send it into dystopian levels
Not that they're canon or anything, but don't the Gihren's Greed games tend to give you bad endings or non standard game overs if the OYW drags out longer than the one year?

>>23567070
I mainly work on it when I'm bored because it lets me combine my hobbies of worldbuilding-slop and mashing different giant robots fighting each other

>>23567988
>A longer OYW would ABSOLUTELY turn humanity into rabid wolves. Think about it. What has Contolism and the Feds NeoLiberalism brought the world? The near extinction of the earth and the human race. War would be all some generations would know.
>Some REAL schizo ideologies would.
>Like Anhiliationist type Rau Le Creuset type shit. IRL example would be from the years of lead in Italy giving birth to Nazi-Maoism. Apocalyptic cults like Mansons Helter Skelter, and Jim Jones. The carnage in Iraq giving birth to to Jund As-Samāʾ. War weariness is a thing. But the flames of war also tends to produce Atilla The Hun types
That's funny. Because that's what shown in the After War AU where the conflict between Earthnoids and Spacenoids extended to 7 Space Wars and resulted in 99% of human life on Earth killed in one mass colony drop.