Thread 23572665

Why are there so few fantasy mecha peices of media? Escaflowne, Aura Battler Dunbine, Vanguard Bandit, Wares Blade and Frame Gride (no one ever heard of them)... still pretty obscure.

>>23572669
inb4 post 3

Actually, quite a lot, just rarely ever got translated. And those that do, people then just go back to Gundam.

>>23572665 (OP)
An anon on here drew this for me ages and ages ago, like literally in...2010, maybe even earlier. I wonder if they're still around ;_;

Wares Blade is getting a translation at some point. Not sure when the full thing comes out but the Kickstarter page has a sample you can download. Honestly something I wouldn't mind trying, not much for pen and paper RPGs personally but looks cool.

>>23574230
I had a skim through when the sample came out and it looks pretty good. It's nowhere near as complex and archaic as I assumed it would be given the era. The mech gameplay in particular seems pretty solid with lots of damage effects and criticals.

>>23574159
Stuff like this barely feels fantasy. It looks more like something you'd see from a high sci-fi story

>>23574343
Then people really do need to stop stereotyping based on the genre's supposedly fantasy clichés and broaden the scope. Personally for me, this series is unique even for mecha genre because of its focus more on R&D aspect

nobody has mentioned galient?
>>23574455
yeah if by R&D you mean Ravishing & Dicking-Down the femboy

>>23572665 (OP)
>Why are there so few fantasy mecha peices of media?
many, many reasons...
1) mecha are a niche to begin with
2) making them medievalish give up the main appeal of technology, while driving you right into plain fantasy
3) NOT using magical wing of light and magic rifle take extra effort,
4) they need to be toyetic, if your design can't be made into a toy it might as well not exist
5) everything mecha is 3D CGI nowadays, and you probably need to murder a few executives to have mechas that don't look like sci-fi toy and instead have a worn out metallic paint like a medieval armor.

>Escaflowne choir intensify

>>23574687
galient is not fantasy at all.

I'm pretty sure Ratbat's webcomic was fantasy mecha
and that's not "fantasy=sex" joke despite what she's known for

>>23575260
damn guess i'll have to tell every resource available to stop calling it that in every description of the show
glad you cleared that misunderstanding up for us

>>23575791
Please do. Galient is a pure sci-fi story.

>>23576830
Galient OVA at least didnt seem to have as much scifi stuff in it, no galactic council or anything.

>>23572665 (OP)
OP, you're not trying hard enough. Duh.

>>23576861
>you're not trying hard enough.
He say, posting a mecha that has every design cue from ultra high technology.

It may be difficult yes but yours, yours didn't even try.

>>23578587

Yeah I'm OP but this asshole posted one from Knights & Magic (Which is apparently an isekai in which a nerdy guy dies and reincarnates into a suspiciously effeminate boy in a fantasy world). That's very off-putting. That being said the mecha does look scifi.

>>23572665 (OP)
It’s wild to me that the fantasy aspect of Dunbine bombed so hard in Japan that they almost completely dropped it for the final 1/3 of the show.

>>23572665 (OP)
I'm trying to create a fantasy mecha world at the moment

So far, It's been quite hard to make it feel convincing, rather than just make a sci-fi mecha. There's a huge number of plot holes, and answers to questions to fill

Like, if there's the presence of mecha, why can't they build X or Y structure with it? If they know how to build this, why can't they build that? Who has the knowledge of these machines?
Secondly, you get pushed into learning a lot about the medieval world, titles, rights, differences between dukedoms, and fiefdoms etc

I don't want to grift off /m/, but feel free to throw any suggestions for things you like to see, or would like to see in this sort of setting.

>>23578833
>things you like to see
1. Robots
2. Covered bridges

>>23578946
I feel like they wouldn't be covered for long if robots had to stomp across them regularly

>>23578833
Depends on what exactly you want the setting to be.
If you lean into something like chivalric romance then you can treat the mecha similarly to how the knights would treat their arms and horses. They exist but are sanctified items for the most elite soldiers and as such using them for logistics is far from the best use. You could have scenes where characters do use the mecha for building but they'd be exceptions and not foundational to the society since mecha pilots are so rare.
If you want a knightly epic I'd recommend reading books like Orlando Innamorato/Furioso and Amadis of Gaul or perhaps even the Mahabharata where the equipment does get a decent degree of focus.

If you want something that's more gritty and war-focused where mecha are ubiquitous then there actually is a historical idea you can use. There's a story of in the decline of the Roman empire where soldiers refused to build structures since they viewed it as demeaning.
You can treat the mecha like chariots, perhaps, where they are expensive, terrain-dependent and required a great deal of maintenance to the point they weren't particularly common outside of warfare where their benefits were very noticeable and their downsides weren't dealbreakers like they would be for daily life tools.

You don't really need to map the world onto medieval Europe exactly, you could read about some of the other ancient societies and pick what works best. Then you don't need to be accurate to a specific time and place, you just need to be internally consistent. And going back to some of these other ideas, both ancient historians and chivalric romance tended to not get all in the weeds with all the complicated politics, they might exist but only need to be directly brought up if it's necessary for the story.

>>23578833

Just because your world has mecha, doesn't mean Mecha are everywhere, or that everyone can use one. Thus building with mechs can be saved for rare countries who may have extra power/influence on their creation/materials. It's still probably safe to say that small villages wouldn't have mechs of their own, and you'd only see a larger number of mechs in larger cities.

But they can be rare artifacts, or are powered by rare materials/artifacts... Or only certain people with certain types of magic/blood can even pilot them. And lets not even talk about fixing the Mecha in the first place.

Look at something like Xenogears... Some places were using old relics of mechs, while the most advanced nations had top of the line new mechs.

In the world of Knights and Magic, new mechs were non existant until an unknown variable (super nerd) came in with knowledge of a different world.

In a way, it kind of matters what you are making this world for? An anime esq story of a hero and his friends with mechs? Then you can pretty much do what you want, ala rule of cool, like Knights and Magic.

Or is this for an RPG system where you need the PC's to be able to get either better mechs, or upgrades for the mechs.

And of course, the big question... What size of mechs are you talking about? Powered armor? 2-3 meter/8-10 foot mech "suits"? 7-9 meter mecha ( FMP! or Patlabor size)? 10-13 Meter (Macross)? 15-20 Meter (Gundam)? etc...

>>23578833
Can always just say the mechs use a specific magical/golem/homonculus method of creation that can't be easily applied to other things.

>>23578989
Fair point.

>>23578833

Tell us more about it.
How do those mechs work?
How are they built?
What are they used for?
What inconsistencies do you come across?
What is the world like?
What is your inspiration?

>>23578833
I too am working on a fantasy mecha world but it's more contemporary-fantasy with a early modern fantasy world with mixed technology levels based on magic suddenly having recently developed analogues to modern tech because they dug up a high-tech machine from the evil pit of evil where demons come out.

My pretense for mecha is that normally the kingdoms and empire rely heavily on champions who are 1 in a million superhumans. Literal one man armies raised with intense support. States still retain actual small armies made of small squads of knights who are also superhuman, with lesser skilled/capable people doing supply chain stuff. This resulted in conventional weaponry like crossbows, firearms, and other shit that would be easy to deploy to the masses not developing as quickly as they should have, since the limitations of the mechanics in early versions of those weapons were functionally useless against people who can cloak themselves in virtually invincible magic or ki-like energies. This led to the excavated tech being guarded closely by the empire that dug it up, which has a cultural hegemon over the region and although smaller semi-autonomous kingdoms exist within it, they're subject states, despite having their own peoples and cultures.

But following the rise of the first nation-state to the east of the empire, made up of heavily militarized kingdoms that guarded the evil pit who felt abandoned by the rest of the world decades prior, general ethno-cultural sentiment is on the rise. It threatens the empire's hegemony and more importantly their access to a legion of champions from around their subject states, so the decaying empire starts building mechs using a mix of golem, homunculus, and the taboo machine technology to replace them (they had actually been developing them secretly for years). In theory, a mech could easily replace a human champion, so there's a strong incentive to complete and mass produce them in order to retain power.

>>23578833
The MC is just some ordinary army goon, glorified inventory guy, and the castle he's stationed at gets sent a very early prototype for testing. It's fairly remote, in a small province or some shit, so everyone thought it would be hush-hush. But the day they receive it the castle comes under attack by unidentified mechs. They're rougher than the prototype, but fully functional and prove their strength by ragdolling a knight and punting him off into the horizon which horrifies everyone. The original pilot gets knocked out during the attack so the MC hops into the prototype to save himself and it activates and it proves to be strong enough to take down a few mechs and fend off the others who retreat because they need to extract their own destroyed machines to avoid being discovered.

Just after they retreat, MC's mech overheats and he has to bail out to avoid being cooked alive, but the cockpit roasts itself. The magitech engine has a serious heat problem once the output reaches a certain threshold. He did an excellent job, so although he doesn't get to pilot the prototype again, the empire sends some new early production grunt units to him and makes him a squad leader for a testing team, which takes him to a few places. All mechs have the same issue, which isn't entirely solved, so he ends up running into enemies again and again until a full blown rebellion comes masks off.

Anyway, it'll be a game and that's the story for the first mission and hook. I'm slowly working on the code and still trying to settle on some styles for the mechs.

>>23579801
>>23579817
That sounds pretty cool, if you have a Twitter account or blog like a lot of devs do that has updates I'd follow it.

>>23578587
>>23578775
That's just the MC-specific mecha. Many other mechas in this series feature the "fantasy knight trope" rather than the "sci-fi design" typically assumed. Man, the stereotype people put into typical fantasy trope really runs deep. No wonder there is a lack of "fantasy mecha" genre, simply because authors slap in their own take and others are like "nope, that's not fantasy enough" and proceed to make the designs as cliche as possible

>>23572665 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYaQWCojgZA

There is another obscure Super Robot Wars-like game with fantasy aesthetic (ignoring the awful remake). I have fond memories, probably wanna continue the campaign in the virtual machines.

>>23579828
Not yet. Maybe once I have some actual prototypes to show. I haven't even started any of the 3d assets

>>23579801
Dang I like your ideas, felt similar to mine. I am currently making a fantasy with Power-Armor (instead of Mecha) in medieval fantasy setting but with geopolitics of early 20th century. The power-armor do have the mecha aesthetics because they simply love it and also because they live alongside dinosaurs. There be global wars and stuff but currently focusing on the R&D aspect cause I like arms-race kind of plot.

>>23578833
>Like, if there's the presence of mecha, why can't they build X or Y structure with it?
Simple solution: accept it and justify why they can build good castles everywhere
The difficulty is just to limit the number of mecha.

>If they know how to build this, why can't they build that? Who has the knowledge of these machines?
NOW that's the hardest part of any setting and what you should focus on.
There are many paths you can take, I'd only ward against the "Lost tech" option for a fantasy mecha, or any solution that do not allow factions to do their own maintenance.

My personal attempts (go ahead and steal)
Giant-animal = big power crystal = rare (human worship the animals and absolutely need them to breed)
Said crystal boost a single creature spell. Including a spell that is basically a telekinetic field letting caster carry or push against everything they want... now scaled up.
But! but! but!
That energy field is visible and hitting it with any slightly magical weapon provoke excruciating pain to the caster. Floating toward a castle will just have you faint of the hundred of arrows, or the few ballista bolts you'll take in the face.

...so in theory the best way to fight is to use that telekinetic field so the cast lift himself into an armor that roughly fit his humanoid magical shape.
...also removing the need for any mechanism more complex than hinge since they are basically big puppets.

Using that same basis, I also limit simultaneous spell to prevent mecha that both float and fight. Grounded!

>Secondly, you get pushed into learning a lot about the medieval world, titles, rights, differences between dukedoms, and fiefdoms etc
Indeed.

>I don't want to grift off /m/, but feel free to throw any suggestions for things you like to see, or would like to see in this sort of setting.
Don't ever feel bad about this.
All author "copy" what inspired them first in the first place.
GOOD author "search" better tropes that would serve their objective the best.

>>23578587
>>23578775
Yup. Neither tried hard enough lmao.

>>23578587
Why do you all have to be such colossal fucking cockmongling faggot negroids about everything? I just wanted to post fantasy mecha and help you out but now I hope you all get isekaid into the sun.

>>23579829
Some designs are just too advanced and scifi looking to carry the idea that they were made in a fantasy world. You need to sell a concept visually.
>>23579817
I don't wanna nitpick cause it sounds cool, but what's the point of putting in a prototype and then wasting it and taking it back out again at the start?
Obviously you don't have to do the typical "prototype that hard carries at first" narrative but if it doesn't come back or something I just don't really see why there's a cool prototype at all.

>>23579829
You don't get it, it being MC-stuff is irrelevant.
If the entire setting is built poorly, you can't expect any mech to feel fantasy/medieval.
-magic jet pack
-magic gun
-magic electronic
-magic camera & screen analog
-magic engineering matching high-tech

>"nope, that's not fantasy enough"
That's the opposite and why we don't bother calling mecha 100% magic fantasy golem/god whatever (even if /m/ will of course accept those)
The mistake is to start from high-tech mecha then replace bit by fantasy equivalent, when you should build a fantasy setting from the ground up until it allow mecha.

There's a lack of fantasy mecha simply because mecha is niche to begin with and 90% of what's produced/broadcasted are no-effort toyetic slops, with childish power fantasy as a plot.
They also know the main public are kids or superficial dumbass, so they don't bother.

>>23581257
I'll still take Escaflowne over that crap of yours

>>23581307
The other guy's correct and you're full of shit, sorry.

>>23581307
The best mech designs are toyetic. If it wouldn't make for a good toy, it wouldn't make for a good mech design.

>>23581307
Yep, you kind of validate my points on how many still enforce stereotypes and then get restricted by what should be and what shouldn't be. As long as authors intended their IP series to be fantasy and have adequately built their setting/worldbuilding to give such impression, then it is fantasy. Tropes are tools after all.

In regards to the OP's post, there are a lot of more obscure Mecha fantasy IPs out there than what we originally believed. We just have to look for them and provide exposure so that at least we can get them to be appear in more mainstream media

>>23579879
Thanks. Mine is more loosely based on the early modern period and Thirty Years' War than the 20th century. Although I did take some inspiration from the USSR and some modern conflicts too. Initially I thought about having it be more like a World War but it's too big of a scope.

>>23581263
>I don't wanna nitpick cause it sounds cool, but what's the point of putting in a prototype and then wasting it and taking it back out again at the start?
It's mainly a game mechanics thing, to give players a limited taste of what's to come at the end. The idea is to have an army building and development mechanic so you level up your mechs up to a certain point and then develop them into new units, like SD Gundam G Generation or the new Digimon game. The fully functional prototype would be one of the end-game units.

Narratively, the idea is that as a part of the test team, the MC's story is that he's helping R&D figure out how to solve the semi-newly discovered heat problem, which takes the main cast to different locations in search of a solution as the conflict brews. But the enemy is doing the same. And as the narrative continues the player would get access to more of the development trees as solutions accumulate and result in higher performance mechs. The starting grunts are low power and tuned down enough that they're stuffy inside but not dangerous or dysfunctional.

As for why engineers would deploy a prototype that's semi-functional. The test pilot is a girl with heat-resistance enchantments tattooed onto her. But the designers weren't expecting the actual cockpit to fry. A lot of the technology they've "invented" is literally like magic to them. They reverse engineered knockoffs without fully understanding the underlying mechanics, so they have to take it back to the drawing board because they consider the entire design to be flawed. Also, that's my excuse to have tattooed girls in slutty clothes in a sweaty cockpit.

Pic related, some of the mech designs.

>>23572665 (OP)
Go too hard into fantasy and people will tell you it's not mecha.
Don't go into fantasy hard enough and people will tell you it's not fantasy at all.

>>23581402
The cover art for this, "Lady Knight of Lightning" always seemed really cool to me but of course there's no information about it in English ;_;

>>23581263
To each their own, but I really do not understand this "visual concept" that you feel the author didn't sell. I dig the designs and feel more unique, original take by the author rather than just "big medieval knight". I like many other fantasy with mecha series that have unique designs and represent the identity of the series

>>23581743
Agree. I hate how people hate fantasy cliches, but when some series has its own take on fantasy, they begin unironically mentioning said cliches as if they were mandatory rules.

>>23581397
It doesn't, you are just deflecting and disregarding that most authors still fail to pass even your lazy criteria.
The equivalent of adding a modern car factories and battletank in a medieval-fantasy setting don't count as "adequate worldbuilding for fantasy".
Tropes define storytelling devices as usefully as possible until you need sub-tropes, if you start pretending fantasy and sci-fantasy are the same thing, you aren't using tropes as tools, you are just making shit up.

>>23582850
>The equivalent of adding a modern car factories and battletank in a medieval-fantasy setting don't count as "adequate worldbuilding for fantasy".
Lmao. Behold, the Battle tank in a medieval fantasy setting.

>>23574756
God fucking damn, the weight, mass, and movement of Escaflowne battle scenes were true art.

>>23582850
Making shit up is the point; that's why it's fantasy. Then what, a literal flying ship in a fantasy setting is not allowed because you said so..ohh wait nobody cared

>most authors still fail to pass even your lazy criteria.

Yeah, it's still fantasy as the author intended, unless stated otherwise, just badly written ones. Not that deep.

Fantasy is too broad a term, and that's the issue, given the term "magitech" just replaces normal tech, and summoned creatures with mechanical elements can also count.

Going to go ahead and mention Nobunaga the Fool; the digital card game also featured more mecha designs.

Anyway, from my old reading list of things not really discussed or translated and can loosely fit under Mecha Fantasy:

- Magic Robot Aluminare
- Soushin to Soushin no Magius
- Lolibaba -Enjoying the Daily Life of a Mercenary From the Age of Six-
- Magic, Mechanics, Shuraba
- Knights & Magic
- Apocalypse Dark Elf Style -Magical Tribes Reincarnated in the Modern World
- Chronicle Legion – The Road of Conquest
- The Court Magician Who Had Her Achievements Dismissed and Was a Hobbyist Puppeteer Becomes Extremely Strong – Even if She’s Told to Come Back Because Her Workplace is Struggling, It’s More Fun to Expand an Undeveloped Land with Her Childhood Friends…
- Mobile Magical Girl Corporation Lulurun: Even If I’ve Become A Magical Girl, I Will Definitely Start My Own Business In Another World
- I Became the Genius of the Gigant Academy
- I Got a Cheat and Moved to Another World, so I Want to Live as I Like
- Reborn as the Underdog First Prince, so I’ll Dominate With My Game Knowledge
- What if an Artificial Intelligence Reincarnated in an Underperformer’s Body in Another World? ~The Result Is Super Technology That Will Surpass Anything in That World of Magic
- Seikishin -Saint Doll-
- Torn Asunder by War, A Sword Saint for Tomorrow X The Knight Wizards!!
- I was Sold at the Lowest Price in My Class, However My Personal Parameter is the Most Powerful
- Glaiftrum War Chronicles The Salvation Strategy of Matthias, the Smiling Strategist
- Will Someone Please Grant Peace to Me, a Man Whose Past Life Was as a Master Mobile Weapon Operator!
- Betrayed By The Elf Princess On Our Wedding Night
- I Want to Be a Magic Tool Maker, but I’m Not Interested in Anything Other Than Golems

OP would love World's Greatest Alchemist which aired earlier this year, it had a mystical golem that got transmuted into a Tetsujin homage that piloted a bigger version of itself Gurren Lagann style. I should have requested something with it on the /a/ draw threads, but asked for the fluffy spider mascot that rides a horse instead.

>>23583322
That list of titles is like having a fucking aneurysm

Japs have no concept of brevity

>>23583438
titles were long even in the old days, like compare Trek TOS, it's all shit like "DAI PINCH! Trelane no nazo ni Gathos-sei", then I've heard when LNs went online one of the big services only listed the title, no description, so Big Long Overexplaining Title became a thing

>>23583438
I mean English went through this phase too. The actual title to Robinson Crusoe is: The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, of York, Mariner: Who lived Eight and Twenty Years, all alone in an un-inhabited Island on the Coast of America, near the Mouth of the Great River of Oroonoque; Having been cast on Shore by Shipwreck, wherein all the Men perished but himself. With An Account how he was at last as strangely deliver'd by Pyrates. Written by Himself.

The reason most LNs have titles like that is like >>23583525 said. They come from Syotetsu, where you have to click on a title to read the summary. Much easier to make a longer and more descriptive title to lure in readers than hope they decide to read something called "Magic Knight" or something.

>>23582994
Far better than making generic high-tech mech and pretend it's medieval fantasy.
At least musket, cannon and the basis for steam power existed.
All you need is a magic that make early metallurgy much easier, and Leonardo da Vinci could get close to that without too many unintended consequences.

>>23583227
As long as you recognize it's bad writing, regardless of the delusion of the author.
Same shit as Titanfall saying "no it's not mecha!" for retarded marketing reason.

>>23583322
>Fantasy is too broad a term
That's why we have others genres, subgenre and overlapping conventions.
On /m/ anything technological in appearance is accepted.

>magitech
It's not normal tech from the meta perspective of those using the therm: us
It's the juxtaposition of the visual codes used for magic with the one used by technology.
Unless your setting have unexplainable-magic and controlled-science as distinct elements, making a big point of how hard it is to make them work together. Like everything it can be executed so poorly no one even recognize the intent.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution.

>>23582994
Notice how they've gone to great lengths to saturate it with medieval imagery and fantastic technology and it's not literally just an abrams being driven by a knight?

Made this mech on this Mecha meets Solo Levelling

https://infiniteworlds.app/#UyMq6Y