Thread 23573671

Zeta and ZZ Gundam are not two separate shows. They're two seasons of the same TV show.

yep only 0079 is good

>>23573671 (OP)
Okay.

And?

Seed and Destiny aren't two separate shows. They're 100 episodes of Kira wank.

Zeta = Kill Bill vol. 1
ZZ = Kill Bill vol. 2

>>23573697
It means they partially wrote Zeta Gundam with the assumption they had a whole second year in mind.

>>23573738
https://www.gundamunofficial.com/production/gundamzz.html
>Even in the planning stages of Mobile Suit Z Gundam, it's said that director Yoshiyuki Tomino had envisioned the long-awaited followup to Mobile Suit Gundam running for two years. And in the November 1986 issue of Newtype magazine, Tomino claims he began planning for the second year of Z Gundam in the summer of 1985
>Officially speaking, however, the project was launched in October 1985. At this point the main sponsor, toy manufacturer Bandai, approached the Nippon Sunrise animation studio about a continuation of Z Gundam.

>>23573751
So that's a yes?

>>23573773
I like how we naturally assume every response is a sabotage or insult

A lot of people say Hamans character was ruined in ZZ but I really wonder if she was just meant to be secretly pathetic and vain like Char. Perhaps she only latches onto Judau because shes desperate after being rejected by Char, and this is what shes really like at her lowest.

>>23574202
She didn't have a character in Zeta besides "angry that Char dumper her".

>>23574202
yes

Z & ZZ were rehashing Heavy Metal L-Gaim. I mean, Zeta debuted the week after L-Gaim concluded. I wish Zeta and ZZ weren't blatant recycles of L-Gaim and even Dunbine concepts that Tomino utilized.

>>23573671 (OP)
>>23573738
>>23573773
>>23574202
Judau and Glemmy were never meant to be main characters.

Char was supposed to be the main character as he starts a Zeon Civil War against Haman.

Then Tomino got funding approval for CCA movie and didn't want to waste Char on ZZ.

>>23574984
>Judau and Glemmy were never meant to be main characters.
That actually makes OP's case stronger since Zeta had a big focus on Kamille and Char's relationship. So one or both of them still being in the main character seat while the new characters were on the sidelines makes sense for a show with 2 seasons.

>>23574984
>Char was supposed to be the main character as he starts a Zeon Civil War against Haman.
No, even in the earliest version, when it was still just "Zeta part 2", Judau takes over as the protagonist.

https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=10078

Not fully translated by Zeonic, but there's the Japanese text here

http://kaito2198.blog43.fc2.com/blog-entry-344.html

>>23575021
Yeah and had Zeta Part 2 not been a thing, we wouldn't have gotten Kamille brain blasted at the end of Zeta.

>>23574202
I actually like that Judau's presence is enough to make any woman lower their guard and stop their bullshit. His presence alone would've been enough to fix Rosammy, Four, Reccoa and keep a nice, lighthearted ambient in the AEUG during the events of Zeta. With him on board, neither Kamille nor Char would've turned the way they did.

After 100+ episodes of everyone being a miserable piece of shit comes this guy that's just great all around all because he has friends and a cute little sister.

One of my favorite scenes is when Ple tells to Judau "I love you" and he doesn't reciprocate. Char would've reciprocated just to find a way to use her Newtype abilities until she died pointlessly, Kamille would've reciprocated both out of guilt born of not saving Four and because he had deep emotional needs, Amuro might have returned the "I love you" in a more platonic sense.

In that moment all those lesser men would've detonated an emotional landmine but Judau didn't: he had enough emotional intelligence and was responsible enough to realize that reciprocating her feelings would've been terrible for both of them.

I love my nigga Judau. It's a shame that the first half of his show is absolutely atrocious.

>>23575021
Nah Tomino changed his mind once CCA got funded. Glemmy was originally just called "Soldier A" and just a background character.

>>23575632
My point is that Judau was the protagonist even before Char was removed from the show.

>>23575628
I feel the same way about ZZ as I do Star Trek Voyager. I love DS9 and Zeta to death, but Voyager and ZZ I dropped. There is something about both those shows where I just find the main cast boring.

I believe people think inoffensive equals likeable. Like Elle and Roux dont have any offending complex qualities like Reccoa did so they are better characters to some people.

Kamille actually had a personality, even if it was unlikeable. The fact that I can't find a flaw in Judau's character makes me actively hate him.

>>23575708
In before somebody lists off a superficial character flaw Judau has like "he is too headstrong" or "he loves his sister too much".

Judau is just fucking boring to me.

>>23575640
Was he? There might have been plans for Kamille to keep being protagonist in season 2.

>>23574984
>Then Tomino got funding approval for CCA movie and didn't want to waste Char on ZZ.
Then why did he write CCA like Char dethroned Haman?

>>23575721
Haman wishes he dethroned her WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA!

Screw it I'm hiding this thread. I only made it so I could bitch about shitty continuity

>>23575741
I really wish I didn't give a shit about character writing so much my bad.

>>23575752
No I'm doing this because of how someone obviously wants to derail this thread into a Haman picdump.

>>23575708
>>23575715
Judau was annoying, irresponsible and brash for the first half of the show. In equal measure than Kamille, in fact, but without the childish outbursts. During the series he quickly adapted and accepted his new role as a member of the AEUG because he felt it was the right thing to do, unlike Amuro who was forced to become a soldier or Kamille who did so during a tantrum.

The second half of the series is good and Judau becomes a responsible, likeable guy towards the end. To me this was a nice change of pace after 100+ episodes of everyone being a piece of shit.
>Elle and Roux
Both of them are boring, sure, but I don't see how anyone can prefer Reccoa over them. She had zero personality for most of the series and then her motivation to become a war criminal was paper thin.

Elle, Roux, Ple and everyone else was a mess whenever Judau was not on-screen. He is the thing that kept the group together and it worked because he needed the rest of the group's support to succeed. Judau needed his friends as much as they needed him.

Kamille is my favorite character, by the way. I found Judau and his friends to be extremely annoying at first but they grew on me as the series went on.

Do people really hate Haman or do they just hate Haman fans? I am seriously asking.

>>23575871
Why would anyone sane hate a character?

>>23575871
Why would anyone sane hate Haman-sama?

>>23575871
I believe, Haman fans and Cima are the same, way too obsessed with wanting a mommy gf and can be sometimes very annoying.

>>23575871
This is the first time I hear about people hating Haman. I checked a lot of places and she is usually one of the most beloved characters.

Stop dumping your image folder.

>>23575944
Make me faggot.

>>23575946
Isn't it a bannable offense to phonepost?

>>23575952
At one point watching Naruto was a b&. I miss Snacks.

>>23575954
Why don't they ban daily chapter storytimes, they're a waste of precious lebensraum.

>>23575956
Never make me Google Nazi words again.

>>23575958
Says the guy posting Zeek waifus.

>>23575946
post row 10 column 7 NOW

>>23575721
What do you mean? Tomino wrote CCA with Char being disgusted with Haman and everything she represented. That's why Char refused to use any of Axis Zeon's ships or suits. Char's Neo Zeon used brand new ships, symbols, and new mobile suits. Char viewed Haman as trash.

>>23575715
judau is a frivolous dumbfuck at the start and he becomes more mature and responsible. he has one of the cleanest, tightest character arcs in the franchise.

>>23576073
Maybe I thats why dislike him then because I find him boring.

>>23576002
>Char's Neo Zeon used brand new ships, symbols, and new mobile suits.
To sell new toys.

>>23575871
ZZ skipper here, Haman was a pretty bland on Zeta, but she works really well as a foil for Char. She's essentially a simple bad guy who acts as a projection of the inner conflicts and sins of Char. Ultimately, that's a credit to Char's character, not hers. On top of that, she's the weakest major antagonist in Z paling in comparison to the Titans or Scirocco.
Even though I like her, it's only conditionally. But yeah, in my experience, the majority of Haman fans are just a lot of horny, stupid people.

>>23576153
Haman seems bland in Zeta because she's acting as Axis' leader. She pretends to be how an Axis leader should be.

There is a brief moment in which Kamille has a newtype connection with her and he noticed there's another side of her that she doesn't show anyone right before she forcefully cuts the connection. ZZ explores that side of Haman which surfaces whenever Judau is on scene.

Anyone that claims ZZ ruined Haman never really understood the character to begin with. She's doing the exact same thing Char does.

>finished Zeta Gundam's last episode
>basically knew what I was getting into
>still feel the emotional gravity weight of it and just want to lie down because the finale punched me in the stomach repeatedly
>Char still has faith in the next generation, fights rather well in a 2v1 with a mobile suit not even customized for newtypes, doesn't even hesitate risking his life to get Kamille or rescue Haman
>an anon described Emma as the consistently sanest character whose thing is "don't you people realize we're in a war", and to the end she's a strong trooper with her eyes on the goal, ignoring the fact that she said some weird space magic shit about the Zeta
>we see all our dead friends as better people finally at peace
>Fa's consistently one of the best girls, risking her life in the dinkiest mobile suit on the Argama, blasting Haman just so Kamille could get to safety, and she's rewarded with this finale
Before, I was ready to enjoy ZZ despite its tonal shift just because I wanted to like ZZ, but now if ZZ started as the saddest show in the world I probably would have dropped it or killed myself or both.

Guys, you told me that Stardust was an absolute shit. What the hell? I finished it and it had a lot of great moments even if the show was a slog and the last 3 episodes were a mess.

>>23577232
>guys what do you mean apart from the complete clusterfuck clusterflop of an ending, it still had some good parts
Basically yeah. It starts to plummet in quality soon after the protag has the gay love song montage with the guy piloting the crab thing, but a lot of the other parts are fine. It's just that it feels like the bad stuff overshadows the acceptable parts, because how the fuck do you salvage that ending.

>>23577241
The ending is really funny
>in the end MC... won the betraying bitch
I guess I need to be more mature about Nina but it really looked like they mocked Kou in the end. Until she appeared I thought that Kou moved on.

>>23577244
It's been a while but
>Nina now recognizes her ex for the sake of drama and because production staff changed partway
>Kou in turn spergs out and kills people who were trying to defect
>the 5D chess the Titans played to create themselves masterfully go into existence, and you get to admire the horror for a second before we get back to Kou again
>we're somehow supposed to think Kou and Nina's happy ending was something that will happen and was also well-earned by both parties

>>23575708
I think ZZ was more or less okay but Im in the middle of watching L-Gaim and I cant shake the feeling that Elle and Roux are just watered down versions of Amu and Leccee. I really think Tomino was lacking inspiration or slacking off for most characters in ZZ when the only interesting characters are the Purus and Haman.

>>23577155
>ignoring the fact that she said some weird space magic shit about the Zeta
but she was entirely right about the Zetas powers

>>23577244
>>23577244
>>23577259
Its not about mocking Kou. I the finale of 0083 is really hard to parse thematically but I really think its supposed to be a vindication of the "losers" of history and that being a person that can take pride in oneself does not depend on the perception of others or that of history. Gato is the "winner" but ultimately accomplishes the opposite of his goal in the grand scheme of things and Kou is the "loser" but stands in the end as the person that has nothing to be ashamed of, in contrast to Nina standing before him. She smiles because she knows she cant ask Kou to forgive her, and its left ambiguous whether or not he does.

Everytime somebody says "Judau could have fixed her" I die a little inside.

>>23577466
I know that but how does she know that
Why does the Zeta have this function
>just a prototype thing for newtypes but this is somehow arguably more advanced than anything we've ever seen in terms of space magic, even if allowing that Kamille is the strongest newtype
I'm not saying it's a bad or unenjoyable concept, or that she was wrong, but it took me a second to register and accept.
>>23577478
I'll think about this and try to have a generous rewatch at some point, GP02 and GP03 have interesting concepts and designs, and it's a very pretty OVA, so I hope it's not like, unsalvageably dogshit.

>>23577483
any cock could've fixed her

>>23577232
>>23577244
>>23577259
>>23577478
The first Director wanted to create a cool action - thriller in the style of Top Gun. Chasing Gato and having cool mecha battles along the way.

The second Director said screw that. He wanted more forced melo-drama, romance, and love triangles. Even if it didn't make sense with the first part of 0083.

>>23577977
I don't mind either, I don't mind both, but when it's one show that was trying to be one suddenly switching to the other...

>>23577977
Idk at which episode another director replaced the old one, but Nina showed that she knew Kelley in the middle of the show and it feels like that this episode was made by the first director. So I assume he planned betrayal too.

>>23577990
Thats the problem with these OVAs that take years to animate slowly.

08th MS team suffered the same problems.

Director #1 Umanosuke Iida was the original Director. He wanted a gritty realistic war drama with ground level tactics and military realism. He handled episodes 1 to 6, created the Gouf fight, and created most of the final mobile suit battles used in the finale. He died unexpectedly.

Director #2 is Takahiro Kanayama. He came in board and wanted to Chang things to a drama with emotional themes, and a much bigger focus on romance. Less focus on military tactics and battles. He handled episodes 7 to 11, and the Miller's report movie.

That's why Aina went from a loyallving sister in the first episodes.....to suddenly wanting to kill her brother and run away with Shiro to make babies in later episodes. Despite her only knowing Shiro for like 1 day at most. Inconsistent direction.

The only reason we even had the Gouf Custom fight was because Director #1 storyboarded and created the Gouf fight ahead of time. He told the staff what he wanted far in advance and had all the visuals prepared. He was really enthusiastic about the battle.

>>23578015
2nd half is better.

>>23578015
I watched 08th with a friend and they just insisted that for my sake we skip the last episode, and I could watch it on my own time if I wanted. So in terms of drama, I found it acceptable, while having also really liked the fights from earlier.
And what the fuck is it with OVAs changing directors? Other commitments? The director in the first half burning too much money? The duration of time causing personal problems within the production crew? LOGH was eight thousand episodes and was consistently good, but I can't help but think of Getter Robo Armageddon which apparently had similar problems (and I'm putting both budget and interpersonal issues there because I've heard both rumors)

>>23577155
i was iffy with zeta at times, likely due to having not ideal subs, but the last two episodes were fantastic
maybe i'm just an edgelord but kamille losing his mind at the end was an insane thing to do and i love it, the arrogant, bratty kid from the start cared about people so much that losing almost all of them just broke him completely
one moment i don't see people mentioning very often is when he opens his visor when talking to emma in the prior episode, i don't know if it was an animation quirk or not but his right eye is twitching before he does it, kamille was already over the edge there and everything that happened after was just kicking him further down the hole

>>23575628
And that's why he sucks

>>23578139
>likely due to having not ideal subs
I gave a few other versions an attempt and tested one episode, and they still had the same subs. If I ever hear a phrase I can recognize, and you've put in a completely unrelated phrase that happens to fit into the situation, I'm going to lose faith in the subtitles faster than Char lost faith in humanity. (Ok maybe it took several years for him, but shut the fuck up.) Like, there's going to be other scenes that talk about some abstract shit, I want to know I can trust the subs, I get what you mean.
>maybe i'm just an edgelord but kamille losing his mind at the end was an insane thing to do and i love it, the arrogant, bratty kid from the start cared about people so much that losing almost all of them just broke him completely
I think we're both able to enjoy tragedy for what it is, and see the artistry or even comedy in it. I'd rather have a character go out in a lovable way than to have him finish his arc and just turn into a background character because there was fuck-all else to do with him. And ok, I thought it was mostly Paptimus being a dick and crushing his psyche, but I'll take a reading that him losing most of his friends helped.
>i don't know if it was an animation quirk or not
I asked elsewhere about Char looking like he was smiling when he said he mistook Haman for Amuro or something, and I had no idea whether it was intentional or not. But yeah, I can't pinpoint when Kamille stopped being a screeching child, to being whiny about an important point and still getting beatings, to being pretty mature and sensible about the gravity (heh) of the situation. Maybe it's when fucking Katz started existing again. I appreciate that Katz exists as a contrast to a matured Kamille and that he's a freakishly good pilot but holy shit I do not like that child.

>>23578179
i think kamille stops being a brat around the midway point, when everyone stops beating the shit out of him and he finally learns to not piss people off
katz is a weird one because he's a total shitter who's trying to be like what he thinks amuro was like, but doesn't understand anything about what amuro actually did, and ultimately pays for it
katz got away with a lot more than kamille did when he was just as bad, if not worse considering that kamille actually had the skill to back up his more reckless moves when katz had to constantly get bailed out

>>23578184
The funniest thing about Katz is that I perceived him as a spoiled kid but then I remembered that he was of Kamille's age

>>23578186
shit i didn't even realize that, i thought he was 14 in zeta
i think he was pretty spoiled all things considered, so was kamille but he got a reality check pretty damn fast where katz got all moody because he got 'betrayed' by sarah even after everyone told him she was going to use him and never really learned from it

>>23578184
>when everyone stops beating the shit out of him and he finally learns to not piss people off
This much is just knowing how to get around the rules, not necessarily maturing, but I get what you mean.
And to his credit, Katz was surprisingly skilled and did bail out Kamille and others a few times
>kamille actually had the skill to back up his more reckless moves when katz had to constantly get bailed out
But yeah, it's just that SPECIFICALLY whenever they did something stupid and gay and retarded, where the entirety of the AEUG and the viewership are screaming at them to stop, Kamille could ostensibly get out of it whereas Katz ends up the way he ended up. Still felt bad for Sarah though, and it was good to see him post-mortem, but I really couldn't pity his (earned) death.
>>23578186
>>23578190
No he's just 1-2 years younger isn't he
>>23578190
I mean, at least they both found closure at the very end postmortem, you could argue that that's still something, for the sake of Sarah's soul.

>>23578194
>No he's just 1-2 years younger isn't he
Hmm, yes. My bad. I always thought that Kamille is 16.

>>23578195
It's too late for apologies, you've just lost your Nemo, enjoy your new Rick Ball.

>>23578194
sarah was still simping for scirocco even after she died, she only went against him because all the other ghosts essentially forced her to help kamille because he actually cared about them, and her

>>23578205
To be fair, Scirocco's insanely charismatic/gravitational, and she also had even Reccoa telling her to get out of the way, as well as Katz giving her hope that Scirocco could still come and hang out. We've seen some of these people become slightly better post-mortem, maybe due to this being a higher state of mutual understanding, or maybe due to the fact that they're literally fucking dead. Maybe it could be the same for Scirocco as well after some period of time. I don't think she grew tremendously as a character, but I wouldn't be too hard on her needing that one final push. And it's from Katz out of all people, I'd rather Katz and Scirocco become better people in newtype heaven than be sent to newtype hell.
Wait. I'm starting to wonder whether you need proximity to the Zeta, and/or affinity with the pilot for people to appear as helpers. Like, I'm glad we never saw Jerid ever again but the writers could have brought him back if they wanted, if this ghost realm is anything like what I think it is, a place with a continued sort of understanding and peace with oneself and each other, etc. I do hope Jerid burns in newtype hell, but if he and Mouar talk about how hateful power-seeking won't solve anything and "I'm sorry for making fun of your name", then ok he's one of us now.
>saved Kamille's apology but lost Jerid's

>>23578227
iirc reccoa never had an issue with kamille, her siding with him over scirocco makes sense if you remember she wanted kamille to stop her from doing all the genocidal shit the titans were making her do
i think tomino said that kamille is the strongest newtype in the uc, and the zeta probably amplified his ability so he could properly contact the ghosts he shared a strong connection with, even if sarah wanted to help scirocco initially she was unable to deny that kamille wanted to and did try to help her live like a normal person
jerid died hating kamille so he would likely want nothing to do with him if he could commune with him, i don't remember him having a big opinion on scirocco either so he likely just fucked off into the void
i do find it interesting that kamille is so fried by the time he kills jerid it's not even personal for him anymore, he just wants the killing to stop before anyone else dies, whereas jerid is still so consumed with hating kamille he does everything he can to get revenge

>>23578241
But Reccoa was also simping over Scirocco because Quattro was just bafflingly ignoring her for no reason/because he pushes people away/because he has issues/etc.
>tomino said that kamille is the strongest newtype in the uc
That was my understanding, but didn't some viewers say this about Judeau for good reasons
>even if sarah wanted to help scirocco initially she was unable to deny that kamille wanted to and did try to help her live like a normal person
Yeah, I do appreciate the human connection, poor girl.
>jerid died hating kamille so he would likely want nothing to do with him if he could commune with him
Yeah, I would have found it a bit jarring if he cheerfully showed up, but do you also become better and relaxed people after death, especially if he gets to be with Mouar or Galbaldy girl
>kamille is so fried by the time he kills jerid
Literally all his friends are dying, it didn't feel like a very long fight and I hope it was intentional. Not just for the show to shit on Jerid but just because even these blood-soaked personal vendettas like this, where it'd be an otherwise-engaging rival fight (mixed feelings here, Jerid's a loser but he's also a skilled pilot to an extent) but it just pales in comparison to the notion that this depressing shit is never going to fucking end. It might have been a bumpy ride but yeah, as you or >>23578139 said, I don't think you can dislike the finale, unless you absolutely require happy endings.

>>23578247
Cont.
Like holy shit, I'll bump a show up from a 9 to a 10 if it had a nice little epilogue where everyone gets closure and you have a happy reunion or dance party or whatever, but I can still appreciate the absolute and pure fucking minimalist misery that comes after Paptimus dies.

>>23578094
>fights from earlier.
>And what the fuck is it with OVAs changing directors? Other commitments? The director in the first half burning too much money?

These Gundam OVAs took years to animate back in 1980s and 1990s.
Very few experienced anime directors are willing to commit 2 to 3 years of their life just to one anime. They have bills to pay and families to feed. So they schedule their time months in advance for different projects.

Bandai would animate 1 or 2 episodes. Then slow down production to see how well it sells. Bandai would sell these Gundam OVA episodes on VHS tape via magazines or catalogs where fans could order them via a phone number (also sometimes fans would place orders at local video stores or hobby stores). If the VHS tape sells well, then they would continue production onto the next episodes. If the tapes didn't sell well, then the anime got cancelled. And the staff got let go.

ZZ is better than Z
the first half of ZZ is great
break free of the internet conditioning

>>23578441
Ok that makes a lot more sense and puts things into context, it's not just "burning a lot of our budget and we might have to cheap out later on", it's outright "can we even exist anymore", and likewise with
I guess something like LOGH was popular and also wasn't absurdly difficult to animate, because humanoid on humanoid action is probably the most difficult to draw but was thankfully the rarest thing that came up, then fights between somewhat-geometrically standard shapes that the ships were in, then most commonly people walking and talking. Maybe. Just pure conjecture on my end.
Do you also know if both 08 and 0083 switching from focus from action to drama was due to how much it would take to animate more fight scenes, or was it more so or even largely just the directors' preferences?

>>23578519
Yeah, the Devilman OVAs didn't get to continue due to expenses and Iida died, and you get other stories like Bubblegum Crash and VOTOMS Shining Heresy being cut short due to budget

>>23578555
>Iida died
Oh, I enjoyed Hellsing quite recently, and I liked the Devilman OVAs as well, that sucks. I haven't seen the Bubblegum stuff yet, I have mixed feelings about Shining Heresy but I never got the feeling that it was cut short....?
>it was only 5 eps and not the 13 I remember
>Phantom Arc was also 6
>Pailsen Files that came out in between was 12, same with Mellowlink that came before Heresy
There weren't that many episodic Votoms OVAs to begin with, I'm not sure if it's a relative lack of interest in Votoms, or - my guess - that people really really thought that a continuation after the show's ending was unnecessary. Hopefully Bubblegum Crash at least doesn't feel like it was cut short.

Director of 08th MS was changed cause he died midway.

>>23578693
That is very sad and for multiple reasons I wish that didn't happen

>wasn't seduced or pressured by Scirocco
>had determination
>newtype
>arguably better pilot than Jerid
>died like Stacy defending her man
>one of the few members of Titans who questioned their methods
>her only flaw - being obsessed with Jerid
Wish we could see AU where she isn't obsessed with Jerid. The girl had some great potential.

>>23578764
>literally everything you said but she was also willing to love even literal trash
No yeah, on many levels she's one of the best characters in the show despite such a short amount of screentime.

>>23578764
also
>voiced by an absolutely legendary va

>>23578670
Shining Heresy was originally going to be 8 iirc, so I think they had to hasten some story beats.
New Cutey Honey was another 90s OVA that was truncated due to issues.

>>23578855
Also forgot to add
>stopped Jerid from capturing Kamille dead, captured him alive
>stopped Jerid from shooting Katz in the elevator full of civies
Wish she was appreciated a little more by fans

>>23578875
Ok getting cut down from 8 isn't horrid. I can't remember which Cutie Honey I was strongly warned about, I think it was probably the last one. Can't imagine why or how Cutie Honey would flop or how you could drop the ball for it.
>>23578881
I don't recall this, ok so all of that plus willing to love trash plus actually has morals and standards despite being in the Titans. What the fuck?
>only piloted the humble Hizack and the rather ugly Gabthley
Man, she deserved something nicer.

>>23578247
reccoa was seduced by scirocco into joining the titans, yeah, but it's also very clear that she does still care about the crew of the argama specifically kamille and fa, she stalls as long as she could before gassing the colony because she wanted kamille to stop her
quattro fumbled really hard with her, even if he wasn't romantically interested in her he at the very least could've shown basic human decency and visited her when she was injured
i guess his autism was too strong

>>23578892
>reccoa was seduced by scirocco into joining the titans, yeah, but it's also very clear that she does still care about the crew of the argama specifically kamille and fa, she stalls as long as she could before gassing the colony because she wanted kamille to stop her
She also pushes the Argama folks away and puts varying degrees of effort into killing them. I respect the fact that she made a decision for herself, and while it was sometimes frustrating to watch, yeah I get that it's insanely difficult to commit to suddenly killing your friends. It felt partly like a woman thing but nothing as insane as people describe Tomino to be.
>he at the very least could've shown basic human decency and visited her when she was injured
Yeah, that was single-handedly one of the most baffling things I've ever seen him do. And painting all three fucking Rick Diases red comes pretty fucking close.
I think he just pushes people and responsibilities away while still somewhat wanting to care for them and change the world for the better. If it's not (just) that, he doesn't care about people's feelings or lacks the foresight to understand people's feelings. It's sad and retarded but I also sort of get it.
Oh man Zeta was just full of well-written and complex characters.

>>23578907
reccoa in the last third of the show is just her having a prolonged woman moment, it's the first thing i though of when she defected and the show clearly seems to paint it that way, considering how her motivation was apparently that she didn't feel like she was a woman on the argama, although i'm almost certain that she was primarily upset at quattro and didn't know how else to praise it
i think quattro believes that everyone thinks like he does so they understand why he does what he does, but the opposite is true and nobody has any idea what the hell he's thinking

>>23578923
No yeah, she was 1,000% pissed that Quattro led her along and her femininity's basically been rejected and she's just another soldier. Then she has the good ol' newtype moment and is strongly attracted to who turns out to be Paptimus. I don't even mean this in a derogatory way, this was literally just a woman moment.
>i think quattro believes that everyone thinks like he does so they understand why he does what he does, but the opposite is true and nobody has any idea what the hell he's thinking
Ok I was forgetting about how Char was a relatable character, but I've been pulled back into the misery.
>doesn't explain himself because he does not know that there is sometimes a need to
I can't tell if he's endearing or retarded
>but he DOES explain shit like picrel

Katz was annoying, stupid and unlikeable, but he had a number of battlefield achievements that are often forgotten by people.

He was the one who stopped the gassing of Side 2's colony 25, saving millions of lives in the process.

He saved Kamille and Emma quite a number of times, usually from enemies piloting better MS. Technically, he won a dogfight against Jerid in episode 44, when he took out the Byarlant's verniers and forced Jerid to retreat.

I also noticed during my Zeta rewatch that Katz more than once rushed and rammed opponents using his MS. I like to think that he picked up the idea after seeing Amuro use a transport plane to stop and take out the Asshimar.

>>23578966
Katz nearly killed Scirocco. The man was in a dogshit mobile suit at the time but still.

>>23578519
>Do you also know if both 08 and 0083 switching from focus from action to drama was due to how much it would take to animate more fight scenes, or was it more so or even largely just the directors' preferences?

Budget was a part of it, but Director preferences the biggest major role.


Shinichiro Watanabe (known for Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo) worked on 0083 as an episode director/storyboard. He was responsible for executing the Anime Director's vision for the episode. Watanabe has said repeatedly in interviews that he was frustrated with the character writing, and that Nina's character arc did not align with what was set up in earlier episodes. But unfortunately Watanabe had no authority or power over the writing, and his job was to simply execute the decisions of the anime director and producer. He hints at behind the scenes disagreements with other staff members, but won't say specific names.

>>23578982
Yeah this uh... This is depressing. It's what I sometimes heard about Getter Robo Armageddon and Ishikawa's departure as well, but this sounds about right for 0083, thank you.

>>23578015
08th MS could have accomplished that transition gracefully if it wasnt clear that this was a longer story compressed into eleven episodes due to bad planning. I thought so during the beam saber hotspring scene where Aina gets a proper backstory that sets up her initial motivation and character arc only for it to suddenly resolve the next moment during the same scene, the Ez-8 silently being introduced with no word from the characters (unusual for a mid series upgrade, or sidegrade I guess), it starts moving very fast to get Shiro and Aina to where they need to be in the finale. You can clearly see how Shiro and Ainas relationship could have developed more gradually among multiple encounters instead of just two before we already seal the deal and then separate them until the finale so Shiro can finish up his character arc. It feels like a compilation movie of the original plot outline.
That said, 08th MS Team still sticks out as one of my favorites. There was a strong vision you can see shine through actual plot.

>>23578923
Char breaks people. He broke Haman, he broke Reccoa, and he broke Kamille. He uses people and throws them away when he is done because he is a sociopath trying to be human and failing.

>>23580263
I have 2 major problems with Gundam OVAs.

1. Why do they ALL need romance? Especially with Japanese main leads (Shiro, Kou, and Banagher) and white women? Is this the writers self-inserting themselves?


You would think that with how short the the episodes are, they would forgo romance and just jump straight into the action and main story. Keep it high intensity. Make the most of your 12 episodes and higher budget.

2. The romance is done badly. Rushed makes no sense. No real sense of build up or realism. It's like the writers have never been in a relationship before.


This is why Tomino is the master of this. He's a married man and understands family drama and romance. He understands the youthful boyish crushes like when Amuro loves Matilda and is heartbroken when she dies. Or workplace romance and love triangles between Bright and Sayla and Sleggar. Tomino understand that the female audience loves social drama and made Whitebase full of drama and made it a survival drama show with action.

Modern Gundam writers can't do it at all.

>>23580279
>Why do they ALL need romance?
War stories and romance go well together. High dramatism + they know that they can die any minute which amplifies their feelings

>>23580284
Not when you only have 12 episodes.

Even Michael Bays Transformers had a romance subplot. You can't have all action all the time, thats not how stories work. Romance is one of the easiest things to write, but one of the hardest things to write well.

>>23580279
>Why do they ALL need romance?
This is extremely common in action stories to create an extra layer in the story for the audience to invest in. That said, Aina is basically integral to the series main theme of the boundary between individual vs organized conflict (war for two) and Nina serves the important role of spurring on Kou's character arc and being the other person alongside Gato that pushes him forward. You cant just write out the romance plots that easily.

>This is why Tomino is the master of this. He's a married man and understands family drama and romance.
This is moreso thanks to Tomino's elliptical writing style. He develops character relationships subtly and gradually without diverting too much screentime from the main plot because he knows how to work with implication and show-not-tell. You see 08th MS Team fail at this with Aina's backstory and resolution where they cram the whole thing into one scene (because it couldnt go anywhere else) and Nina and Gatos relationship that is only hinted at in ways that say nothing about what they were like together and why she would go so far for him.
I still like both OVAs because I dont think it sours the whole story but I have to admit comparing this to G-Reco is like night and day.

>>23580306
The problem is that you could delete the romance plot from 08th MS team and 0083, and nothing would change. The same events still occur. The romance adds nothing to the story. Meanwhile deleting romance from the original Mobile Suit Gundam would dramatically affect the story. Amuro wouldn't have a childhood sweetheart Fraw Bo, Amuro would experience loss and tragedy with Matilda, and there would be no eternal hatred between Char and Amuro for the death of Lalah.

>>23580279
gundam is consistently about sex. everything tomino writes is incredibly horny.
the OVAs or shows like X and seed are more blunt but they're maintaining the established formula. gundam characters want to fuck.

>>23580383
>He then went on to describe Shinkai's works as "stories about a boy and a girl who are always stretching out their hands towards each other," and said, "And yet the boy's hand never reaches the girl's crotch."
Tomino just understands that sex is normal part of relationships and not some sacred ritual.

>>23580302
All Hollywood blockbusters have romance subplots, though.

I mean yeah, there needs to be more than action, if you're the sort of fucking faggot loser who needs more, but it doesn't need to be a romance subplot.

>>23580444
Why are the characters fighting if not for something or someone they love?

>>23580520
Yazan didin't need someone he loved to fight.

>>23580523
He loved turtles.

>>23575075
Nope.
Kamile going insane at the show’s end was always planned from the start.
It was Kamile’s subsequent death that was canceled by ZZ.

>>23580532
Was he supposed to die during colony drop?

>Mashymre
>almost killed Ple 2
>created Newtype nuke
>Chara
>defeated all Ple clones
What the hell was their conditioning. They unironically were ones of the strongest pilots and newtypes of UC.

>>23580550
Also why did the phrase about light became a meme in Japan?

>>23580273
i think he cared about kamille, or at least he did about as much as someone like him could

>>23580613
>https://youtu.be/8ueVuvS8zBY?si=qO4-3tpplWFt49l5

>>23580613
>>23580631
I wish I had more of the Coach Quattro posts saved

>>23580532
Zeon Republic and Mark Simmons had something saying different, but I guess that would've been if Zeta had been shorter.
Tomino had said there was a happier ending in mind, and there was a joke from someone that the extension and creation of Judau were what crippled Kamille.

>>23580639
>https://youtu.be/Ka4qQ6Y65r8?si=OsDy6hX9SJze8t2t
This entire conversation is just Quattro and Kamille.

Watched 5 episodes of WiP. It's pretty funny that the one of the most beloved Gundams isn't even about big robots

>>23578923
a solid three quarter of Char's problems in Zeta are because he refused to have sex with some women because he's still not over his dead girlfriend

>>23580694
everybody always says that the reason x is popular is for the eye catching spectacle, but when you actually look into it the real reason is almost always the human element

I will never understand why both Amuro and Char were obsessed with Lalah. She was so boring.

>>23580700
the newtype sex was crazy

>>23580700
Shut up, Haman.

>>23580669
>I was in a fight last week
>Really, how'd it go?
>I won
>Really?
>Yeah
>Who'd you fight?
>Katz
>The- the G-Defenser pilot?
>Yeah, he cannot fight
>Yeahaha, but he's got a big mouth, lieutenant
>Well not anymore he doesn't

>>23580700
The subsequent works really hit home that newtype connections are something insane. Beyond love or sex, there's some otherworldly level of connection where you just "get" one another, and people get near-unconditionally infatuated or obsessed with one another because of this. Tying in with the message about human understanding and etc etc, it's not something we as viewers can necessarily experience but it is something that's an actual thing in the show

>>23580697
I would respond to that, but I don't want to touch the Reccoa conversation with a ten foot pole. People think she's well written and I don't want to walk into that wall of stupid people.

>>23581025
i think she's realistic, an adrenaline junkie who got the hots for the enemy commander to the point of switching sides after being rejected only to regret doing so almost immediately but is now in to deep to go back and has to justify it to herself when confronted
throw in some trauma both old and new and i can kinda see reccoa's line of thinking
i think she's stupid for doing that but i can see why she would want to in the moment

>>23581025
she conflates sex with compassion and floats through life from one cock to another
i know a dozen women exactly like her

>>23577483
you can't fix perfection

Finsihed WiP. Really good short OVA. Imo one of the most important supplement materials because it shows the war from the perspective of the civie and the colony.
It's nice to see a kid who woke up from a military propaganda in the end. Too bad his good friend needed to die for that.
Bernie was mindbroken i=by the war in the end as well. Him wanting to fight Gundam in the end reminded me some Stardust characters
My theory is that Zeon fleet captain let capture himself because he didn't want to carry out that cruel order.
Also the show actually showed that there is no good side. Feddies conducted the secret research of Gundam on the neutral colony. Zeon spec-ops started the operation without any consideration for civies lives (and they would easily kill MC if it didn't cause the police to investigate a kidnapping), Zeon's commander wanted to nuke the colony.
Honestly not surprised that one of the most beloved Gundam shows isn't even about big robots because Gundam is carried by human interactions hard
Still need to watch 08th team because it's the only OVA left but I'm planning to watch Victory next.

>>23581556
>isn't even about big robots
none of them are.

>>23573671 (OP)
I've been rewatching Zeta for the first time in like 10 years and marathoning it immediately after 0079. I just realized the badguys of Zeta... they're just the Zabi family again. Degwin and Jamitov, Dozle and Bask, Gihren and Scirocco, Kycillia and Haman, they all play the same roles. Strange I never saw it before or anyone mention it. Also pointless. But strange.

>still thinking about Emma Sheen's death and tearing up
>even the dub's delivery of her lines was good as well
She didn't fucking deserve this.

>>23584501
Its going to be alright.

>>23584505
I should reread the chapters for this, I wish someone would pick up the translation again, preferably someone who speaks English this time. Both of these guys deserve this happy life.
Holy SHIT there's nothing wrong with Zeta's mood but boy is it depressing

>>23584521
Ok tbf yeah, I don't know what to do with photographs of other people

>>23584521
coping and seething OL haman-sama

>>23584501
it's a really powerful moment, especially when it just lingers on her when kamille is about to leave and later when her body getting affected by the beam charging
her death is one of the big reasons why i don't think it was entirely scirocco's 'curse' that broke kamille, he was already at the brink long before that

>>23584552
>he didn't even get to bring back her body, the last thing we see is her body floating as the colony laser's charging up
>there might not even be anything left of it
>she was just clonked out by some fucking space debris
And yeah, things were pretty damn fucking bad enough that I wouldn't really have blamed Kamille even if he just broke with zero Sciroccoan influence. Like, I get that Scirocco's the second strongest newtype but it probably wouldn't have taken that much psychic damage to make him lose it.
Haven't seen Victory Gundam but I'm aware of the kill count, how the fuck is Uso fine at the end of it?? I think he's younger than Kamille but also loses way more friends and parental figures.

>>23584566
haven't seen victory yet but with kamille he was already greatly affected by even just random people dying, or who are about to die due to being a newtype
every time someone close to him died he felt immense emotional pain, and was more or less able to power through it until the finale where it just would not stop
throw in summoning their ghosts to help him and scirocco's final mental attack on him, it's no wonder he just snapped
i'm assuming uso isn't a newtype, so he likely wouldn't be as brainblasted as kamille from the horrors of war, or if he is he's not as strong of one

>>23584566
>>23584570
Uso is a Newtype. I think so much shit is happening around him he kind of becomes desensitized to it if that makes sense. The last person he was really horrifically tormented about was his mom and he dissociated after she died. That's the last death he reacts strongly to iirc. Even with the bikini babes he thinks he's hallucinating and mostly ignores them.

>>23584570
>more or less able to power through it until the finale where it just would not stop
I might be projecting, but he was probably just not letting himself process any of it, and wasn't really afforded the time or occasion to do so. I mean fuck, depending on who you ask, Amuro and Char took years to come to terms with it and Char possibly didn't if you take CCA into account.
>summoning their ghosts
I assumed it's something generally encouraging when those things show up, but it might have been a bit silly in hindsight, considering they're pretty much fucking ghosts, and Amuro did not enjoy getting haunted by Lalah afaik.
>i'm assuming uso isn't a newtype
No uh, I don't want to get into the details but I'm pretty sure he is.
>>23584583
Do the Shrike team start dropping like flies after he holds his mother's severed fucking head? I know about some plot points but not necessarily the order of things. I only watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0iIFh5c0YA because I do like the opening.
SRW30 has someone save the day for the scene you and I mentioned but I didn't know how fucking bad it was in the show, I assumed things worked out in the end as opposed to both his mom and Oliver dying.
I just want to lie down and cry
The guy in vid related probably had the right idea, if Uso did NOT break down as a child, in a situation where even adults wouldn't be blamed for losing it, even if he's sort of doing okay there's still something tragic and miserable about a loss of innocence like that.

>>23584611
i think kamille tried to harden himself after four died and wanted to just decisively end the war asap
then he started getting affected by rosammy and starting with sarah's death all the other newtypes started dropping like flies, kamille had no choice but to try and process what was happening in the middle of a war zone, all while contributing to the carnage if he wanted to survive himself
iirc there's a scene fairly early on where he tries to rationalize himself shooting down enemy ms' by saying that they should've just gotten out of the way of his shots, it's not his fault they flew into them

>>23584619
I don't think I saw him trying to process it, I think if you repress something difficult you were supposed to slowly process, you're just going to lose your mind at some point
>iirc there's a scene fairly early on where he tries to rationalize himself shooting down enemy ms' by saying that they should've just gotten out of the way of his shots, it's not his fault they flew into them
I don't recall when this was, but he says it in SRW constantly
War fucking sucks, man.
Also I don't know why I found Yazan so endearing when he's someone who's responsible for the most number of named deaths in the show, curious to see how he ends up in ZZ

>>23584583
>Even with the bikini babes he thinks he's hallucinating and mostly ignores them.
That was because for the last couple of episodes he was fighting near a newtype-powered psycoweapon that has the ability to cause hallucinations and induce coma and dreaming in both oldtypes and newtypes

>>23584621
yazan's an asshole who's completely unashamed to be one and makes no attempt to hide it, it's almost funny how much of a dick he is to everyone
he's a very straightforward character in a show where almost everyone has multiple layers to them

>>23584626
Ok wait I fucking remember why. Even aside from
>grope
>picrel
>fun Hamburabi and neat tactics
>being a fight autist who's genuinely happy to see Kamille again in SRW (V?) because that means they can fight again
I've forgotten about the fact that this motherfucker BLINKS AWAY his OWN FUCKING NEWTYPE AWAKENING
It's starting to happen and he blinks away this weird trick that he has absolutely zero fucking interest in

>>23584611
The Shrikes start dying right after their introduction. The first few hit Uso hard, but none as bad as his mom. After his mom I don't remember if he even notices them dying.
>>23584624
True, but again I don't even remember him noticing or reacting to the Shrikes dying after his mom kicks it.

>>23584635
maybe things would've turned out better if everyone was like yazan and simply said no to the newtype autism

>>23575871
>Could have had her own entire series was shafted really bad.

Would you?

>>23584699
t. Fabro still seething about Four

>>23584727
Haman-sama, BANZAI!

>>23584909
doesn't kamille end up with four in all everything she survives in?

>>23577155
There is one serious misstep in the finale which is that it's not quite clear enough what happened to Kamille imo
He seems to be acting strange but it isn't overt and clear that he is severely brain-damaged. It seemed to me like they needed another 10-20 seconds or something at the end to make this clear. Instead, the clarification has to wait for the first episode of ZZ (which further strengthens the argument that they should he considered different seasons of the same show but it really doesn't make sense to delay this particular reveal).
I've seen more than one person who is watching blind sincerely not understand what is going on at the end and just thinking Kamille is talking with uncharacteristic levity now the war is over or something. He doesn't do or say anything *quite* concerning enough to get the gravity of the situation across. Maybe it could be solved if he reacted worse to Scirocco's newtype magic wave reaching him, like if he had a horrified or excruciated expression right before the blast separates them.

>>23578227
Scirocco is not merely "charismatic", he literally warps people's personalities with his newtype abilities. It's like brainwashing but he doesn't even have to lock you down into a chair or give you drugs.
Yazan goes from basically a berserker bloodhound to a cunning strategist under Scirocco's command, he also stops hating having women on the battlefield.
We don't see much of Sarah before Scirocco gets his claws in her, but she seems like an arrogant and self-important girl with a hero complex, sincerely talking about being so good at piloting she will win the war without even killing anyone. Within a few episodes she's little more than a lapdog for Scirocco.
After Reccoa's first contact with Scirocco, it's as if he planed a seed in her brain that grows and poisons her. She starts to hate Quattro, she stops caring about piloting or the thrill of battle that motivated her before, and slavishly seeks out the signal that Scirocco is producing. She is nothing like the character that infiltrated the Titans twice (at Jaburo and in space).
This is not "charisma", it's outright psychic manipulation.
With Kamille he more violently applies the same principles, forcibly warping his mind as fast as possible.

>>23585138
i think kamille taking his helmet off and trying to get out of the zeta while not knowing where he is make it clear enough that something is seriously wrong with him, especially when we also see fa's reaction to what kamille is saying
if anything zz retconned it somewhat by making him a borderline vegetable, he was very active at the end of zeta despite losing his mind
maybe they figured it was easier to cast off kamille if he physically couldn't pilot instead of people holding out hope that he could be retrained

and yet Tomino admitted he would have liked to have another show with Judau as MC. Never said anything like that about Kamille or even Amuro.

>>23584669
Man...
>>23584699
Honestly, I don't know what to think about this.
>newtypes can better understand each other
>yet they STILL fight and almost every newtype connection ends tragically because we're still human
>>23584727
>master1200

>>23585138
>>23585155
Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that something horrible happened. If it's not neurological, then it's definitely related to his soul or psyche. ZZ seems to imply that a part of him is still inside somewhere considering he still somehow reaches out to Judeau both physically and newtypically, ah you made that point.
But ok, it seems very obvious to me but I also knew about this ending for over 20 years, so I can't comment on how it would come across to a blind viewer.
>>23585146
Well yeah, it was a bit of an understatement, my bad.
>even affected Yazan
I thought he just amusedly went along with it, that's a good call actually. Definitely the strongest pull was seen with Reccoa though. I'm still annoyed with her but I also can't hate her.
Wait, why didn't it work against other Titans, they still distrusted him and didn't exactly give him his freedoms cheerfully. Does it only work on women and Yazans?

>>23575884
>mommy gf
>both women are subs

>>23584611
>SRW30

>>23585155
I think it's really more about Judau's contact with Kamille and his awakening there. That and the later scenes with Kamille outright talking telephatically are much easier to get if Kamille's mind is seemingly just locked within an unresponsive shell, rather than Kamille acting crazy in reality while somehow his mind inside is fine, like he has two different minds in one body.

>>23585184
Amuro and Kamille have complete arcs (with the benefit of sequel series that complete them). Judau only ever had ZZ so we never got the follow-up on Jupiter from Tomino.

>>23585211
>Wait, why didn't it work against other Titans
Why didn't he use it on Haman, or at the very least Mineva? One would imagine a single meeting is more than enough for him to brainwash a confused child.
Why didn't he use it on Bask or Jamitov? That would certainly speed up his power grab.
Why did Lila and Jerid seem unaffected?
It seems to have something to do with latching onto weak-willed people that have no existing strong motivation, maybe he caught Yazan at a particularly good time in that respect since he was probably having some doubts about what exactly he was sticking around for after getting Jamaican killed. It's all very unclear and circumstantial. Clearly, he can't just bend anyone to his will with ease or else he would have already taken over the galaxy shortly after returning to the Earth Sphere.

>>23585248
Yeah. It just seemed innocuous and cheery instead of like, "holy shit you just prevented one of the saddest anime things I've heard about in my entire fucking life"
>>23585257
Doesn't he show up in a later Crossbone manga (as a lonely loser?)? I've only read the first one and not like, holy shit why are there so many of them
>Crossbone Gundam Meets A Dinosaur ™
>Crossbone Gundam Goes To School ™
>Crossbone Gundam Goes To Mars ™
>Crossbone Gundam In Space™
>Crossbone Gundam On Ice™
>The Return of Crossbone Gundam ™
>Crossbone Gundam and the Minotaur ™
>Crossbone Gundam and the Fate of Atlantis ™
>Crossbone Gundam and the Temple of Doom ™
>Crossbone Gundam and the Raiders of the Space Ark ™
>Crossbone Gundam and the Last Space Crusade ™
>Crossbone Gundam: The Musical: The Manga ™
>Crossbone Gundams ™
>2 Cross 2 Bone 2 Gundam ™
>Crossbone Gundam: Final War ™
>Crossbone Gundam X ™
>Crossbone Gundam At The Louvre ™
>>23585258
I'd assume Haman would have noticed instantly as an equally(?) powerful newtype. But yeah, he didn't even attempt it on Jamitov or Bask. And it's not like Yazan seems like someone who can be easily influenced either.
>it's a bit right after Jamaican
Ok you know what, that's fair.
>he would have already taken over the galaxy shortly after returning to the Earth Sphere.
If he gave a speech in person after Jamitov's death, he probably would have had more of the Titans fall under him, what with people losing morale from their losses.

>>23584501
Emma deserved it.

I would like art of Char and Haman on the cover of Rumors because this album is just a summary of their entire relationship.

>>23585305
Nuh uh

>>23584669
I think scenes like that are offscreened and implied. I distinctly remember the first episode of a shrike team member dying and the episode ends immediately thereafter but the next episode during the recap narration of last time there is a brief cut of Uso hearing the news and crying about her. It feels like a deleted scene that was reinserted into the recap segment and more reactions to Uso grieving like that may have been simply left implied from then on to keep up with the pace of the plot. Later in the series Uso starts to harden and a number of shrike members even die in ways where they get to say their last words to Uso so scenes like that would become superfluous or unnecessary anyway.

>>23585275
>why are there so many crossbone stories
Because they sell and people like them, duh

>>23585579
>guaranteed that they'll continue to be good, or at least similar in vein with the original
I'm glad I guess, although it seems like there is quite a LOT. Is there nothing that finished off the story for F91 though? Giving it 2-3 volumes seems like something doable.

>>23585369
She totally did.

>>23585615
Yeah, on opposite day.

Sex with Jerid.

>started to watch Victory
>the battles are actually pretty fun and tricky
>it's dark
>the balance between goofiness and seriosness is better than in the beginning of ZZ
After hearing it's one of the worst I'm pleasantly surpised. The only thing I don't like is pacing. 9 episodes and they are still fighting around Uso's house. And main girl is not only boring but she is also pretty stupid. I'm not going to be surprised if she is killed because of her willingness to run away.
Katejina looks like a psycho with zero sympathy on the other hand. In the first episodes she calmly says that people of her destroyed town deserved it.
The scene where Uso's kicked panty sniffer from the cockpit was pretty funny. But I should admit he is much more competent rival than other assholes like Mashymre and Jerid.
Victory Gundam is fine and I really like head of Zolo, especially insect eyes. But please show more suits already.
For now it looks like a good entry.
>>23585652
Jamitov...

https://twitter.com/yaochan_defu/status/1976247357999354134
Kazuki Yao's (Judau) twitter post.

>>23585743
sorry, I just couldn't help it.

>>23585207
newtypes seem to be fiercely loyal to whoever they make their initial connection with
like lalah picking char over amuro despite her saying she wished amuro had found her first, and sarah with scirocco, again wishing that katz had found her first
i think that's where a lot of the tragedy comes from with them, they bond with the wrong person and it causes nothing but pain in the long run
although all of them in zeta seemed to understand that trusting kamille would've been the best thing for them, even if they were unwilling to do so in life

>>23585818
Is this why Mouar was obsessed with Jerid?

>>23585818
Okay, then explain Quess.

>>23585829
Same type as Reccoa, never properly bonded with anyone. Quess didn't bond with Hathaway or Amuro in the same way that Reccoa didn't bond with Quattro or Kamille.

I'd argue that it's not initial connection since weak connections don't seem to do much, but who manages to make a strong impression first.

>>23585829
Char's dick make women act retarded.

>>23585848
Didn’t have an effect on me.

>>23585753
Dude...

>>23585818
Or, let's say that it's deeply formulative and influential rather. Just like normal oldtype bonds irl.
>all of them in zeta seemed to understand that trusting kamille would've been the best thing for them, even if they were unwilling to do so in life
>"I believe, help my unbelief!"
Tragic.
>>23585825
I actually don't recall whether saw got big newtype bonding moments for Jerid with the other person still being alive. I know Mouar had one as she was going, the Gabthley woman might have also?
>>23585876
Wh-what

>>23585653
Victory's biggest actual problem is being repetitive. It makes sense that you like it this early.
If you're already sick of Shakhti now then you will fucking despise her by the end. So fucking much of Victory is her getting captured and rescued over and over.
Katejina is like half the reason anyone even remembers Victory. Excellent character, utterly psychotic and soulless person.
The hate for it is a bit exaggerated but I am guessing you will at least understand why eventually. Tomino went too far when he said nobody should watch it basically. Anyone that says it's like secretly the best in the UC or whatever is on crack though.

>>23580273
>Char breaks people.
No, he disappoints people by not being the man they want him to be by accident of his birth.

>>23575871
I don't hate Haman but I don't see what's so great about her. She is a mediocre villainess imo.
I especially don't understand people that say she's good in Zeta but ZZ ruined her. We barely learn anything about her in Zeta besides that she's Char's ex, she is kinda smart politically but nothing special (main people she tricked were retards like Jamitov, her temporary alliance with Scirocco absolutely helped him more than her), and she is a good pilot and newtype. All of her actual characterisation has to wait for ZZ. She legit has one single actual interesting scene in Zeta, when she has a newtype connection with Kamille and goes ballistic on him.

>>23585925
and also uses them to advance his political aims and kills them

>>23580700
They understood implicitly that she represented the possibility for people to understand each other and live in peace
It's not so much Lalah herself dying that is sad, it's that her death drives home that humanity will probably never live up to the potential she showed them

>>23585925
>"blame this on the misfortune of you're own birth Garma, ha ha"
>spends the rest of his life weighed down by the misfortune of his own birth

>>23585829
That hag Chan ruined got in the way, she should get off the ship.

>>23585950
it's like poetry
it rhymes

>>23585992
Earth is so dense, every single person has so much weighing them down

>>23580550
I have no clue. Wasn't Mashymre also mostly a shitter in the beginning? Near the end, he's taking down and dodging bits like he's Amuro.

>>23586002
Unless fanon has misled me again I think it's implied Mashmyre is an enhanced human at the end.

>>23586025
Yeah, he's obviously a cyber newtype. That's not the point since it's mentioned in the post I was replying to. Most cyber newtypes are dog shit or meh pilots. Simply being a newtype doesn't mean you're going to start twerking on funnels/bits. It's a big leap and then he does something we're not even sure Amuro could do with just a psycommu.

>>23586002
>Wasn't Mashymre also mostly a shitter in the beginning
He wrecks Fa in that part of the show where if a dog fell into a mobile suit cockpit they would probably wreck Fa
He at least isn't completely outclassed by Judau piloting for literally the first time ever
Slightly better than Axis grunts anyway. Could have straight up just killed Bright and the whole bridge at a couple of points if not for muh honour. So much for that considering he is the one operationally in charge of the Dublin colony drop later, many such cases for honourfags in this franchise

>>23586052
fa gets done dirty in zz
she goes from an adequate pilot to someone who can barely get in the cockpit without it crashing
if it were explained better that she was just stressed out about kamille/ exhausted from the war at that point i maybe could turn a blind eye to it, but no she just suddenly is awful at piloting despite being the sole capable pilot left on the argama and has to be bailed out by judau multiple times
i also disliked how bright just lets her drift off into the void in the direction of shangri la instead of asking/ ordering her to take care of kamille, it was clear her heart wasn't in the fight anymore but they at least could've let her go with some dignity

>>23585920
>Tomino went too far when he said nobody should watch it basically
In one of the interviews he said he became less harsh towards himself over the years.

>>23586073
I mean it makes sense that Fa is in very shitty mental state. Kamille is the vegetable, most of Argama crew is dead and one of her friends was killed in the beginning of ZZ by Yazan.
But yeah, she was TOO shitty in ZZ. Iirc she lost to every random grunt in the show.
Also it's pretty funny to see how Fa isn't liked on the old forums but new watchers think she is one of the best girls in the whole Gundam series.

>>23586339
i'm curious, why did people dislike fa? i didn't notice anything offensive or irritating about her
was it just her bickering with kamille or did people just prefer four over her?

>>23586350
>bickering with kamille
Probably this and they thought that she is no-fun-allowerd character.

>>23586350
She's just mid. Mid tier pilot, mid tier importance, mid tier personality. Four is more interesting, Emma is more competent, Elle is more likable, Roux destroys her piloting record. Her first impression is pretty bad too since as you said she comes off as a no fun allowed character.

>>23586435
i like how she would more or less keep kamille grounded, everyone else on the argama was military personnel, fa was someone kamille know before all this and knew him personally instead of a pet project like char or a somewhat bratty and rebellious pilot like the rest of the crew

>>23586350
I don't know why anyone would dislike Fa, we already had Fraw be a similar worried character, except we see more of Fa's consistent dedication and lack of hesitation in risking her life to make sure Kamille is okay.

Thoughts about not-Haman?

>>23585848
>Qum
>And Shinta

>Roux's debut episode at long last
I wish she would put me on a leash

>>23587792
This with Scirocco putting me on a leash.

>>23587794
Calm down Sarah and or Reccoa

>>23585879
You stuttered.

>>23587813
Yeah but look at what he said

>>23587792
I liked Elle more. Roux is still good though.

>>23587828
Due to being cheerful and blonde, she does get a lot of points, but there's something about that hime cut, exposed shoulders, and massive sloshers

>>23587816
Half of what he's capable of.

>>23587839
The anon I was replying to and not master Asia, you dope

>>23587842
I truly am the King of Losers.

>>23587847
No I didn't mean it

>>23587775
isn't he the reason why they're on the argama in the first place?
why did he bring them on, anyways?

>>23587870
You know damn well why did he bring them on, especially Qum

>>23587839
I wonder what they were thinking as they storyboarded this sequence.

>>23587839
Was Gurren Lagann inspired by this?

>>23573671 (OP)
Twitter hot-take as a 4chan thread. Nice job guys.

>>23587838
I think it's more about her being one of the boys who was never afraid to go on the frontline with Judau and Roux.

>>23588333
I mean yeah, I'm not an insanely gigantic tomboy fan, but it's very appreciable for someone to just be at the same level as the other guys. Being more helpful than a chronic damsel in distress already earns you major points.
Fuck I love ZZ Gundam, I hope the show never shits the bed at any point

>>23588337
ZZ only ever gets better

I should confess. I don't understand Char's character

>>23588381
i don't think anyone really does
at best you can maybe figure out why he does something in a certain scene

>>23588378
Not true. I remember being so hyped at the episode where Ple-Two attacks in the Psycho Gundam thinking the show was gonna be that cool for the rest of the running. Then nothing happens in like the next 5 episodes. Glemy rebellion is just lame conceptually, imagine if fucking Jerid hijacked the plot near the end of Zeta. They brought back Sarasa and Rasara as if the moon moon episodes weren't irredeemable dogshit. It definitely dips for a good bit there.

>>23588381
That's because he is not a consistent person, even outside of Zeta's particular issue where almost nobody is consistent (realistic, but often frustrating to watch)

>>23588498
I wonder if that's how God feels when he watches us

>>23588378
this is true, outside of a couple scenes involving the zeta characters in the first 3 or so episodes zz is abysmal until ep17 when it finally starts to improve
there was nowhere to go but up

/ourguys/

>>23584611
>cry

I think Cima is the haggiest hag I've seen in anime.

hard to believe Zeta and ZZ are one thing, judging by how bad were most fights in Zeta and how good they were in ZZ instead, let alone the much superior mecha design in ZZ. Kicking that pretentious fop Nagano out is still one of the best things Sunrise ever did for the whole franchise

>>23588973
both have great fights.
nearly all of the staff carried over from Z to ZZ.

>>23588973
That's one of my biggest gripes with Zeta watching it right now
There's so many combat sequences and they're painfully boring (Jerid or Yazan's back, they blast some lasers, retreat) the majority of the time with some of the ugliest suits I've seen in the franchise, but some really good ones
I'd prefer if there was more time for the character dialogue, politics, and world building but I get that television anime had to keep the kids interested at the time

>>23588988
i think there was a mandate for at least one mobile suit fight per episode in zeta, and it feels really obvious in the latter half of the show when it's all about the internal and external politics of the characters
it's funny, when i was watching zeta i kept thinking to myself what a downgrade the suit designs were to msg, but now that i'm watching zz i'm annoyed that there are so many msg suits running around

>>23588973
>Zetarager hates Nagano
Adds up

>>23589006
Even though 0079 did the same thing and got tedious at times it kept my attention better during the action
I appreciate that they tried to make a wider array of suits but I don't know how they thought the hambrabi looked good

>>23580444
Jurassic Park does not

>>23589052
8675309 and their lackey like to use big words and names too

>>23588441
>>23588498
Can you at least give me idea why he decided to drop Axis after Zeta.

>>23589177
No. You have to use context clues and media literacy to figure it out yourself.

>>23589177
Earth = Mother

He was repeating the assassination of Lalah so he could be free from Earth's gravity. But Char knew in his heart he would never be free, just like he was never free from Lalah's memory.

>>23589252
>the whole Gundam is Tomino exploring his mommy and historylet issues
Deep

>>23580740
It does bug me how invasive and all pervading they are, you put two characters in a room for thirty seconds and they're now soulmates beyond death no matter their prior affiliation or existing relationships. And predictably this causes a ton of drama.

Was Haman supposed to be Judau's newtype romance?

>>23589305
Yes

>Tomino: I was already over 45 when I was making "Char's Counterattack," and I regret that I should have studied history more. The problem of lack of academic ability became especially acute when making works after "Char's Counterattack." However, even though I realized that I had to be more educated after I turned 40, I still couldn't study. I realized that studying wouldn't catch up. I feel that the limit for studying is around college age, and that if you don't study a fair amount by then, you won't be able to flesh out the story.
>I realized something while I was making works for about 10 years, from "Mobile Suit Gundam" to "Char's Counterattack." I realized that I was simulating what would happen if humans went out into space and lived there. The conclusion I came to was that it is absolutely impossible for humans to leave Earth and live in space. However, if I denied that, I wouldn't be able to make a "space war story," so I continued making the "Gundam" series after that.
>Thanks to that, some people think that I have a positive view of human life in space, but it's the exact opposite. Humanity must continue to live on this Earth, and that's why we must take care of the Earth's environment. There is no way out for humanity in space. Since 2014, I have been making a series called "Reconguista in G," and in my recent works, I have been putting more of what you might call my true feelings at the forefront"

>>23589177
Watch CCA

>we were robbed of Bright "correcting" Emma scene
I'm still mad.

>>23589078
i found the fights in msg to feel more weighty than in zeta, and that the zeon pilots usually felt like they were a credible threat to amuro, where as in zeta we have the constant back and forth skirmishes that don't usually result in anything major unless it's time for one of jerid's girls to die again until the last third

I want to go on dates with Roux

>>23589546
This with killing Roux.

>>23589606
You are the worst person on earth

>>23577456
I put Roux and Leccee on the same level. They're competent, confident of their skills and hot. Maybe Leccee has a better fashion sense.
On the other hand, Elle is infinitely more likeable than Amu, whose only personality trait is just shouting the protagonist name 24/7. Elle is also much more cuter

>>23578923
Reccoa is introduced a capable soldier that takes risky missions and doesn't care if she dies. This is the same Kamille did towards the end of Zeta by the way. Reccoa was already falling apart when she's introduced.

But she also has a caring side towards Kamille and Fa meaning she's still empathetic and wants something more than the constant violence of war. She had her doubts about continuing to be a soldier yet she kept doing it out of a sense of duty.

The Argama crew save Kamille and Fa saw her as nothing but a soldier that carries missions. She was longing for emotional (not necessarily physical) connection but the only way she could relate with Char was physically. Then she got severely injured during a mission and Char didn't have the decency to look up on her. She felt betrayed by the crew and Char in particular who denied her a simple acknowledgement of "yeah, I care about you."

Then she meets Sirocco who is a manipulator. He grooms her by reframing her doubts as not belonging with the AEUG, he promised her a place to belong and seduced her (she, after all, was emotionally starved and since the last war could only relate to men sexually).

Not only that but Sirocco puts her on increasingly worse scenarios, meaning she betrays the Argama crew and her ideals little by little. Every time pushing her boundaries and making her bind to him out of guilt. The point being making her feel like she has no other choice but to keep serving him.

Even then she stalled for as long as she could. Once to save the Argama crew and the other time because she wanted Kamille to stop her from gassing the colony.

Also I read somewhere that she's supposed to have been raped during the One Year War. If that's true and not a headcannon that would add several layers of trauma and could mean she is undergoing a deep identity crisis the entire time, which would further explain why Sirocco was able to groom her so easily.

>>23586350
I disliked Fa because I thought she was an idiot for becoming a soldier to just to be near Kamille who obviously didn't like her back. It felt like a one-sided crush who was extremely out of line for most of the series.

Then I watched ZZ and I realized she was kind of right all along and most of all willing to sacrifice herself for the man she loves. She's great.

>>23590058
>who obviously didn't like her back.
It's pretty debetable if he didn't feel anything for her at all.

>>23590268
I see it more as Kamille being a young male and as such being willing to fuck any female he meets. He was never infatuated with Fa like he was with Four and he had some reluctance about being with her. Maybe he didn't want to damage the friendship.

The thing is, what she did for Kamille is pretty much the same Kamille did for Four. I really like her even if she comes across a pushy.

>>23590034
i think the idea that she was raped comes from the wording she used with emma right at the end, iirc it's generally translated as humiliated but in nip it's pretty commonly used to mean raped, or general sexually abused
exactly when it happened is unclear, but most people generally say either during the oyw or at jaburo

>>23590034
>>23590406
I don't like her but I do appreciate her character and I do care about her, I think this is well-put albeit depressing as hell

the choice to have yellowish color for her normal suit is a nice touch, seems pretty deliberate, or maybe it was just a great improvisation.

>>23590541
yellow is just the default AEUG version of the anaheim-manufactured pilot suit, both kamille and judau wore it early on before getting personal pilot suits in their preferred colors. fa also wears the same yellow pilot suit

>>23589455
This used to be my stance, but re-watching Zeta there's a lot better action choreography that feels like real fire fights than I remember, particularly any time the pilots are fighting with a backdrop that isn't just space. I do think 0079 is the goat but Zeta is closer to ZZ than not.

>>23576089
Watsonian vs Doylist, midwit

>>23590500
zeta does a good job at making almost all of the characters sympathetic even if they're not the most likeable of people, you can't help but feel bad for them even if they do objectively heinous shit by the end

>>23590584
Aside from Paptimus and maybe Jerid, yeah. Like, everything sympathetic for Jerid is there, he goes through some similar shit as Kamille and any viewer would definitely recognize this, but he is JUST an unlikable ass who doesn't learn. I guess like Katz he's also there to provide contrast? I'd like to think that it was intentional that Jerid doesn't get much fanfare or a big moment for his death, both because that's how war works and like, yeah buddy you never learned and you were never that important. But yeah, 90% of the cast feels very human, for better or worse.

>>23590589
it was 100% intentional, jerid only lived for revenge against kamille and died for it, ultimately accomplishing nothing except for showing kamille the futility of it all, which was already something he had been struggling with without jerid buzzing around him like a wasp

>>23590593
>without jerid buzzing around him like a wasp
Hahaha, I really like that.
Like, oh man, Zeta doesn't have to be anyone's favourite but it definitely was very well made. I'm not seeing any depth so far in ZZ other than maybe that Mashymre is romanticizing or imagining conversations he's had with Haman - and if they were all real, if your de facto ruler has had dinners with you and gave you loving advice fifty times, yeah why wouldn't you simp for her - but I'm expecting it to pick up. Poor Fa leaves next episode I think.

>>23590589
>>23590584
One of the funniest moments in the series.

>>23590632
What a fucking waste of space. Also, is this the movie? Parts of it look jarringly better than others.
>smug kid was looking back at Yazan thinking he was hot shit, instead of looking in front of him
It's hard to even credit Yazan for this kill. Stupid STUPID STUPID

>>23590632
>>23590649
little dude thought he was amuro
without understanding a damn thing about him

The voice of Katz, Keiichi Nanba.

>>23590664
Say what you will about the War in the Pocket kid, at least he learned (the hard way albeit) to grow up.
>>23590672
Thank you for your work but I did not like the guy you voiced.
>one of the villains from Sailor Moon AND the nerd
That's a complete fucking 180. Then there's Leozack, Cancer, Broadcast, and maybe Shin from Hokuto?
>voiced two girls as well somehow

>>23590692
never had an issue with al, he was what, 9? 10? and completely sheltered from the reality of war, once he realizes what it's actually like it scares the piss out of him
meanwhile katz was surrounded by it for months and was adopted by two people who were combatants, he should've known better even if he was spoiled
maybe his young childhood memories on the white base got hit with the rose tinted lens and nostalgia, seems like he had a very romantic idea of what it was like

>>23590702
I still find characters like that annoying, even though it's understandable and also the point of the character. I'm not saying he was a bad character, I JUST find uppity children a bit annoying.
But yeah, maybe people hid from him the terrors of war, instead of like
>yeah the chef who gave you extra snacks is dead, there's some pieces of him over there
>the room next to us is vacant now, the gunner who kept us safe turned into ashes because his ammunition exploded from a stray shot
>let's be quiet when walking through this corridor, Amuro's stressed and cries himself to sleep due to how stressful and unhappy it is to fight with your life on the line, even ignoring the huge weight we're putting on his shoulders daily
I don't know how you could want to be like Amuro if you've ever seen him during the One Year War. Maybe it's a child's "yeah he thought it wasn't fun but I'm different" mindset? Anyway FUCK Katz.

>>23575708
Thinking back to it now I liked most of the elements of ZZ that weren't the main cast. Puru, Haman, Mashymere and even Glemmy once he got going were fun but Judau and his group were hard to watch at times

>>23590721
at the very least katz should've remembered ryu and maybe sleggar, although ryu sacrificing himself to save amuro might've warped his view on the situation and i don't know if sleggar was around long enough to make a real impression on him

>>23591046
But it's not like he had a big hero or martyr complex either, at least in that regard. He JUST thought he was hot shit
What a stupid retard. I read somewhere
>yea he's a skilled 16-year old pilot, the only issues stem from the fact that he's a 16-year old
and that's very apt.
Honestly, he should have been given confinement and beatings way more often, for his own good genuinely.

>>23591058
him getting slapped around a bit more may have made him think twice about doing stupid shit, maybe bright was less willing to do it with katz due to their history and that he's hayato and fraw's son now
i'm pretty sure a lot of his behaviour stems from him wanting to win over sarah, not understanding that she was such a lost cause not even kamille could convince her to detach from scirocco despite the multiple cases where she knew damn well that leaving would've been better for her

>>23591066
>maybe bright was less willing to do it with katz due to their history and that he's hayato and fraw's son now
This is the only thing that makes a slight amount of sense, that and maybe people just literally got tired of doing the identical shit a second time after having had to deal with Kamille.
I think he was like this before Sarah, but Sarah definitely didn't help at all. I suppose I should commend or at least withhold being too harsh regarding him not giving up on a probable lost cause, it's what heroes do, it's noble and etc etc. It's just that Katz was doing it for the wrong childish stupid reasons.
I guess the plus side of having (realistic) characters like these is that it won't take very much to impress me with a kid character. Already women who do more than solely cry, complain, and require rescuing get major points, thankfully anime has been good to them in that regard, and child protags usually won't be as retarded either.

>>23590281
Kamille does show her some genuine compassion on a few occasions. I'm thinking of near the end when everyone is fighting inside the Colony Laser, he was game for Bright to just fire the laser and take out himself, Haman, and Scirocco along with the Titans fleet, but he wanted to stall the other two long enough for Fa to get out. In general he seems to appreciate Fa more as the series goes on I would say and he starts to realise he kinda doesn't have any other allies onboard the Argama (ignoring people that get killed like Apolly and Roberto). Like he wants Emma, Bright, and Quattro to survive but he can't really say they are his close comrades in the same way Fa is.

>>23590632
They drag Katz' death out for so goddamn long in a part of the story where they are clearly struggling to fit in all the remaining plot and character moments
Like he sees the meteorite
Grazes it attempting a dodge
Spins out
Gets hit by Yazan
Knocked unconscious and starts drifting
Has a Newtype conversation with Sarah
Slowly proceeds directly into a second crash
And finally blows up
Then we get reaction shots from basically everyone
I swear this dude's death takes like at least two minutes, maybe more. The entire theatre scene which is the only fucking time in this 50 episode show that the three main faction leaders plus Kamille lay out their ideologies and beliefs explicitly is probably under three minutes but they dedicate the same amount of time to Katz whose death would have just as much symbolic value if he died immediately on hitting the first meteorite (because it would still be his own fault, which is the whole point here)
There are so many scenes at the end of Zeta that would benefit from even an extra ten seconds to flesh them out instead of this. I'm thinking of Kamille at the end, he needed one more line to really make it explicitly clear that he isn't just dizzy or disoriented but horribly disabled. As it is, the real "wham" of that scene doesn't actually hit us until we see him in ZZ.

Fake meteorites

>>23587162
Cool hat
Cool bells

I expected 4chan to absolutely hate Reccoa while Reddit would deffend her. But to my surprise it's opposite.

>>23591932
reddit prides itself on being the lowest common denominator, so if the average viewer hates reccoa then you can be sure reddit does too
at least here people will discuss things between the shitposting to actually get to the root of things, and it turns out reccoa is someone that has a lot going for her when you sit down and talk about her

>>23573671 (OP)
>They're two seasons of the same TV show.
Completely irrelevant. We rate separate seasons of shows like Gundam 00, IBO, Code Geass separately regardless.

>>23588902
She was cute during the OYW. What happened?

>>23592113
She was betrayed...

>>23591564
>Like he wants Emma, Bright, and Quattro to survive but he can't really say they are his close comrades in the same way Fa is.
Doesn't he also come back to get Quattro out, or was it the other way around. But yeah, if we're going with "do both people know that the other would die for them without any hesitation", then yeah they only have each other.

>>23573671 (OP)
does double zeta have a decent english dub?

>>23592621
Iirc it doesn't have dub a at all. They made english dub for SEA but it's lost.

>>23592621
I don't understand how you survived the Zeta dub.

>>23592758
Unpopular opinion maybe but the Zeta dub is better than the 0079 and CCA dubs

>>23591570
>I'm thinking of Kamille at the end, he needed one more line to really make it explicitly clear that he isn't just dizzy or disoriented but horribly disabled. As it is, the real "wham" of that scene doesn't actually hit us until we see him in ZZ.
To me it was blatantly obvious when he was speaking like a child and completely dissassociated from reality which are things that we only ever saw with Four and Rosammy. Plus there was Fa holding back her tears and desperately calling Bright because she didn't know what to do.

If anything Kamille's condition was retconned in ZZ. The ending of Zeta made it look like he was in a state of psychosis which means that the best case scenario would be that he gets better but suffers from random episodes of psychosis the rest of his life; worst case scenario being that he stays in that state forever. But then in ZZ he's catatonic and yet completely aware of his sorroundings.

Talking about Zeta how exactly did Kamille die in the novels

>>23592802
And then through ZZ you see he seems to function but be nonverbal and treated like he can't understand, something like aphasia.

>>23592807
Yes. What I assumed from Zeta and ZZ is that Sirocco's attack was similar to a physical lession on the brain. Maybe something like being hit very hard or an infection.

>>23592799
I haven't watched any of them for any meaningful amount of time, I just know Zeta's was done by scabs.

>>23592913
>done by scabs
The Zeta dub was done by a different group out of a different part of Canada who weren't in ACTRA and therefore had no obligation to strike. They'd only be scabs if they were part of the union and still worked. That same group went on to do the G Gundam dub.

>>23592964
Tomino, please stop it already

>>23592803
iirc he opened the cockpit with his helmet off
it's unclear if it was suicide or not

>the first fucking opening for ZZ changes partway
List of things in ZZ Gundam that make me cum handsfree: Roux = Haman <<<<< OPs that change later on in the show

>>23592758
>I don't understand how you survived the Zeta dub.
it was alright... not great, but serviceable. Some actors did better than others, but they were at least more consistent about pronunciations than 0079's dub was

>char vs shar

English dubs will always be unpopular for japanese media, even when they are done well, but it is simply a lot easier to watch dubs in situations where I can't necessarily give the show full attention, without having to pause or go back because I missed something, and Japanese speakers have told me that the original performances aren't always that much better than the dubs and I'm inclined to believe it.

>>23592965
They're scabs because they're non-union alternatives.
Also G was dubbed first. And was also a bad dub that was just really lucky to be for an extremely silly wuxia show. I had to watch half of it subbed because of how terrible the supporting cast was. I couldn't imagine how this same group of people would deal with such a densely dramatic, self-serious show like Zeta where few of the characters act like human beings.

>>23593046
Oh is that why he does that in the show? It was a rejected idea from Endo?

The rare occurrence where the first season is a mess and the second is a masterpiece

>>23593437
i don't think so, in the show it was likely to physically show that kamille had lost it, iirc he starts rambling right after he takes it off
i'm not sure if he goes crazy in the novel

>>23593437
>>23593500
Found this
>After Scirocco dies, in the novel there were more dramas with Gates and Rosamia. Kamille’s consciousness somehow merged with Rosamia’s and they both left their MS, Kamille is treating Rosamia like his mother and Rosamia inexplicably acted like a mother to him, and they were about to physically hug. Gates moves to attack them, Rosamia kicked Kamille out of the way and (using Kamille’s actual mother’s voice) told him to escape with the Zeta. Once she sees that Kamille is sitting inside Zeta’s open cockpit, she jumps Gates whom was firing the mega particle gun, and they both evaporate in front of Kamille. Kamille gets reminded of his mother’s death again, that’s when all the ghosts (Emma etc) merge around Kamille, he does actively “invite” them to use his body as a gathering place for their power and their consciousness, I guess people interpret that as “suicide”. (We’re told Kamille’s reaction to the ghosts was slow and his mind was thoroughly broken, implying he was alive but mentally not there.)
>After that, the Zeta drifted slowly across space while emitting light as battles gradually die down and eventually ended up near the Methuss. Fa found Kamille with both the helmet and the cockpit hatch open, implying he was already dead (but Fa was too exhausted to notice.)
>Even if we were to assume he himself lifted his helmet shield after the Gates/Rosamia explosion (as opposed to having it opened by the explosion in front of his open cockpit), it’s not like he was mentally sound enough to decide he wants to kill himself. People taking their clothes off under hypothermia aren’t treated as having committed suicide either…

Nah fuck Reccoa
>wah my crew didn't pay enough attention to me I'm gonna go join daddy scirocco on team war crimes
>oh no I have to commit war crimes!

Is there a strong reason to read the novelizations other than curiosity, completion, wanting to be reminded to be thankful for life, or wanting a push of misery to end it all? Because every single time I hear shit about any Gundam novelization, it's either the most insane or depressing Gundam-related shit I've ever heard in my life.

>>23593644
Yes, extended story bits which give more depth to some characters.
Or some meme stuff like Sayla giving Amuro a locket with her pubic hair
But read it only if you really like the entry those novels are about.

>>23593648
>spoiler
See that is exactly the sort of shit I'm talking about.
>more depth to characters
Ok I do love getting inner monologue. Fucking hell. Is High Streamer substantially worth it, or should I just go straight to Beltorchika's Children?
>anon why did you pick the most depressing one
May as well go all the way

>>23593500
His speech is incoherent towards the end. His mental state was deteriorating rapidly. Even without Sirocco's attack he wouldn't be fit for combat, but it's likely the AEUG would've tried to keep using him anyway because they were so short handed.

>>23573671 (OP)
Kamille a shit with a girl's name.