Thread 128178403

Khatia Buniatishvili in the window edition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmaUoCgtXoQ&list=OLAK5uy_ndyFQ-H76rmpdDjbx7rGKfKo_ym6PyqiA&index=1

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://rentry.org/classicalgen

prev: >>128158950

time to finally try what so many Beethoven enthusiasts claim is one of if not the greatest cycle of his piano sonatas ever: Annie Fischer's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oxGVyPXzc0

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mJBG-0UYD6UZt9tqrqzP2FvO2oiHqmEO0

>>128178028
that is pretty good

In the mood for some sturm und drangs, do you guys got any by lesser known composers?

IT'S UP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUsDxAO1uWs

>The 12 Greatest Contrapuntists of All Time
Ockeghem
Palestrina
Handel
Zelenka
Haydn
Beethoven
Brahms
Mahler
Bartók
Shostakovich
Hovhaness
J.S. Bach

>>128178550
Oh jeez, its the list of people everyone already fucking knows and have been praised in academia for years, what a original and well thought out opinion!

>>128178582
Hey, the correct answers are the correct answers.

>>128178550
Cool. Never understood the classical fan's obsession with counterpoint to be honest.

>In 1918, Szymanowski completed the manuscript of a two-volume novel, Efebos, which took homosexuality as its subject.[6][7] ("Efebos" or ephebos is the Greek term for a male adolescent.) His travels, especially those to the Mediterranean area, provided him with new experience, both personal and artistic. Arthur Rubinstein found Szymanowski different when they met in Paris in 1921: "Karol had changed; I had already begun to be aware of it before the war when a wealthy friend and admirer of his invited him twice to visit Sicily. After his return, he raved about Sicily, especially Taormina. 'There,' he said, 'I saw a few young men bathing who could be models for Antinous. I couldn't take my eyes off them.' Now he was a confirmed homosexual. He told me all this with burning eyes."
There are 3 kinds of pianists: jewish pianists, homosexual pianists and bad pianists.

>>128178550
kill yourself. nobody cares about the opinions of this retarded fat nigger cock sucker and I swear to God if you make one more fucking post mentioning Dave Hurwitz I will find your IP address and I will kill you.

>>128178550
No Reger? wtf

>>128178714
Last 2 times it was me who posted Dave's greatest list, but you're free to track me down and kill me, I wanna die, just make sure to kiss me first.

What's your favorite Ravel solo piano set?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3wT1ihzvfk&list=OLAK5uy_k35_klK4PO4hu84Cf2o9AMansUk5AykG4&index=1

>>128178550
Screw this jew, mozart was a great contrapuntalist and he doesn't even mention him

>>128178550
>no Scriabin
Pathetic.
>Mahler
>Bartók
>Hovhaness (who???)
What is this shit?

>>128178774
watch the video

>>128178778
No thanks.

>>128178803
afraid you might learn something and broaden your horizons?

>>128178756
Mozart was good, he wasn't great. Reger fuckmogs Mozart in counterpoint and he didn't even mention Reger.

>>128178814
>fat old jew faggot on youtube gagging on the same old composers and his fellow countrymen
>broadening horizons
Good one, Dave.

>>128166831
Obviously. It's the way he treated them. It's possible to make melodies unrecognizable, which he could but normally didn't. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.
>>128166795
>But I'll leave it at that
You'll leave it that because I possess far more nuance and knowledge on the subject than you, and you have absolutely no counterargument apart from
>nuh-uh!
I accept your concession.

Paganini

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1gDJTxnvE&list=OLAK5uy_nsEFqH_dD8XbQrpV53IRx9wcDQ4Oec6AA&index=10

Top 20 contrapuntists:

1. J.S. Bach
2. Max Reger
3. Palestrina
4. L.W. Beethoven
5. Anton Bruckner
6. Sergei Taneyev
7. Dimitri Shostakovich
8. Joseph Haydn
9. Alexander Scriabin
10. G.F. Handel
11. Domenico Scarlatti
12. Nikolaj Medtner
13. W.A. Mozart
14. Johannes Brahms
15. Frederic Chopin
16. Bela Bartok
17. Richard Wagner
18. Josquin des Prez
19. Arnold Schoenberg
20. Franz Liszt

Honorable mentions: Schumann, Alkan, Mahler

>>128179020
>>128179020
I appreciate the effort

>>128179020
Incredibly based list apart from
>6. Sergei Taneyev
Which I'm confused about but also quite unfamiliar.

>>128179068
Taneyev is the Russian Bach, and teacher of great famous composers including Rachmaninoff, Scriabin and Medtner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urW96pRqP7Y&list=OLAK5uy_mSePUl-UzmuYROj3T6D971n-WC4ANywS4&index=1

>>128179020
>no Hovhaness

shit list

>>128178550
The reason he chose Mahler instead of Wagner is because he's Jewish.

>>128178550
this guy hates bach and mozart so fucking much lmfao

>>128179269
We all hate Bach cultists here.

>>128179373
Shalom!

>>128179379
Shalom!

>>128179157
>Taneyev is the Russian Bach
>posts a piano quintet
Hm, doesn't really compute does it? Maybe you meant to say Brahms, hehehe!
I've heard of him but never bothered researching his work. Looks like we wrote predominantly chamber music. Interesting, will definitely check him out soon, thanks.

>>128179020
>>128178550
since this whole exercise is one of comparing apples to oranges I think the following is a better ranking:

20th century:

1.) Shostakovich
2.) Hovhaness
3.) Holmboe
4.) Kapustin

Romantic:

1.) Reger
2.) Taneyev
3.) Wagner (pbuh)
4.) Bruckner

Classical:

1.) Cherubini
2.) Mozart
3.) Beethoven
4.) Haydn

Baroque:

1.) Bach
2.) Handel
3.) D. Scarlatti
4.) Telemann

now playing

start of Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 2 in B-Flat Major, Op. 83
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVMLcv00aS0&list=OLAK5uy_k1wACmun32FA6KymSBtUgkEy8IpSFIU7Y&index=2

start of Brahms: 2 Rhapsodies, Op. 79
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r70QHISB1BI&list=OLAK5uy_k1wACmun32FA6KymSBtUgkEy8IpSFIU7Y&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k1wACmun32FA6KymSBtUgkEy8IpSFIU7Y

One of the greatest recordings of this masterpiece.

>>128179583
>1.) Cherubini
Didn't hear of this name and decided to give this overture a listen

https://youtu.be/MtDlQ0QZMmo

Actually very enjoyable. What are his essentials?

>>128179784
go away, pleb.

>>128179795
Can't find his "go away, pleb" piece, is it a overture or something?

>>128179795
God forbid someone asks about classical instead of animeposting or posting links

>>128179851
Here you go dude

youtu.be /FFVSl5XlTF8

>>128179852
/classical/ is for avoiding normgroids, not inviting them in.

For today's performance of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, we listen to Roger Woodward's recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNKdh4ry6e8&list=OLAK5uy_lKr-TUmp_U035LIV5TCkrDSrzHTMfXePg&index=36

Has a very lovely, deeply resonant sound.

>>128179784
His Requiem in C minor and to a lesser extent string quartets.

now playing

start of Liszt: Harmonies poétiques et religieuses III, S. 173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhVArIaRytA&list=OLAK5uy_m4ZxNvbTYiVWP5Xj5SU1Ke-2bV8Oi9eqc&index=2

Liszt: Harmonies poétiques et religieuses III, S. 173: No. 3, Bénédiction de Dieu dans la solitude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93nduDII83A&list=OLAK5uy_m4ZxNvbTYiVWP5Xj5SU1Ke-2bV8Oi9eqc&index=3

Liszt: Ballade No. 1 in D-Flat Major, S. 170 "The Crusader's Song"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUV3lbKMan8&list=OLAK5uy_m4ZxNvbTYiVWP5Xj5SU1Ke-2bV8Oi9eqc&index=12

Liszt: Ballade No. 2 in B Minor, S. 171
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uyVvLNG5Js&list=OLAK5uy_m4ZxNvbTYiVWP5Xj5SU1Ke-2bV8Oi9eqc&index=13

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m4ZxNvbTYiVWP5Xj5SU1Ke-2bV8Oi9eqc

no one here is familiar with the early 20th century pianist William Kapell?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5onHLdV1I

perhaps then the reviewer who stated,
>William Kapell (1922-1953) is regarded by many as the all-time greatest American pianist.
was making it up for his own benefit. not an uncommon occurrence

>>128180001
died on a plane crash
thats why gould avoided flying, and that fear was one of the reasons on why he stopped concertizing

>>128179583
Is Handel really the second best contrapuntist of the Baroque era?

>>128180169
Scarlatti is

>>128178774
You mean whovanhess?

>>128180417
Who da hell?

Beethoven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OfcKFkOeKw&list=OLAK5uy_n_tNUG9A9-Hk1cOxxlNfY6p3QHcHsp4Po&index=125

>>128180170
Which Scarlatti piece has the best counterpoint?

>>128178550
seriously confused as to why do you keep posting a guy nobody here likes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWakxAXiaaE&t=8m9s

I think the over-reliance on singing in music has made the modern ear extremely poor at understing musical phrasing. It's as though people can't feel "emotion" from music if it doesn't have a human singing (even in a foreign language you can still feel expression) or if the musical lines don't closely simulate human singing and its range.

>>128178820
>>128178550
clueless musical commentary

Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtwpvHnrACM

>>128178550
Wait who's Zelenka I've never heard of him or her

>>128180874
Coming from the mr clueless Kruger himself!

Jangly bell classical?

>>128181130
Mahler 4's introduction of the main theme is basically that.

>>128181130
>>128181316
Oh nvm, "Jangly" is apparently the opposite(?)

>>128181130
James Pierpont - Jingle Bells

>>128179784
2 Sonatas for horns and strings
Messe De Chimay
Missa Solemnis Per Il Principe Esterházy
String quartets (six of them)
String quintet
Symphony In D Major
Requiem In Memory Of Louis XVI
Missa Solemnis Du Sacre De Louis XVIII
Requiem In D Minor

Some of the best sacred music of the period. Don't care for his operas.

>>128181031
>no u

>>128181316
>>128181330
Thanks for nothing anon

>>128180170
>>128180817
ANON I'M WAITING

>>128181489
Terrible memes, terrible musical knowledge.

>>128181538
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hV1OP9V8IU

>>128181031
>Kruger
I don't get it

>>128178550
>Look at me I can play three different musical lines at the same time
>No they don't actually sound good but it's complicated which means its good

Counterpoint is overrated

>>128181538
dude any of his ~500 sonatas have pretty much the same high level and quality of counterpoint and they're all incredibly short; just listen to any of them, or all of them even
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0DOZWktIOY&list=PLT0uE2OVDu0aOxp88cWjXvON3IxSJeL9Y

For $500: Something only dumb people resentful that they can't into counterpoint say:
>Counterpoint is overrated

>>128181674
define "sound good" objectively

>>128181691
Counterpoint is neither "overrated" nor "underrated", it is just a musical trait, much like harmony, melody or form. All of are equally important, but not evenly distributed among composers' skillsets. No composer is perfect.

>>128181679
>Just listen to all 555 of them my guy
Thanks for wasting my time bro

>>128181734
It sounds good? There's not really a simpler way to put it

>>128181748
I agree with all of that, dead anon. Those simple truths however will make no difference to some zika-brained fuck saying "hurr counterpoint is overrated"
>>128181761
>listening to Scarlatti is wasting time, and you bringing the entire work to me from the beginning so I can browse and check out several of them in a short period of time is frankly insulting
Glad I could deprive you from something good that you don't deserve!

>>128181776
>dead anon
I meant dear* anon and not something morbid or threatening, I promise.

>>128181770
then what if I tell you that playing three different musical lines at the same time actually sounds good every time?

>>128181792
shh stop trying to broaden his horizons, he's perfectly happy in his truncated little world

>>128181776
Sorry I didn't realise you invented Youtube, my mistake-well done.

>>128181821
Hey man it's all cool, it's all cool, don't even worry about it

>look up /classical/ in the catalogue to get to this thread again
>see absolute retardation from normgroids

>>128180647
>>128181549
>>128181786

Everytime I think this general is retarded, /mu/ proves that people can be even more retarded.

>>128181895
>looking, even glancing at other threads here or in all of 4chan
why do you hate yourself

>>128181917
the metal general is fun, if you can overlook the rabid, militant racism and homophobia (but then agian this IS /classical/ so I'm sure you can)

>>128180817
>>128181538
Cat Fugue.

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMfUYZUbfMw&list=OLAK5uy_mMxSZhJlRHtmkAJx-MMAxAm3kElCMPqUM

the worse the cover the better is the album i guess

>>128181933
/classical/ is a pretty racist general, we dont even talk about black music here.

>>128181933
Why would you browse a lowbrow general?

>>128181959
that... that was the point

>>128181968
>is fun

>>128181969
Yeah but i was unironic and you were ironic and not unironic

>>128181830
Unless you meant your Peter Jan Belder?

>>128181895
Hardly specific to 4chan. The majority of the human population literally doesn't understand music in terms outside of a) its extramusical function in social events, liturgy, social movement, or static mood-setting for one's own emotions, or b) variance in sound effects and colour, as we see with that anon who objects that classical uses the same 'base sound'. Music itself doesn't even mean the same thing to such people to what it means in classical, and it's not limited to this website or any particular society.

>>128181895
The fact that you can't recognize that it's a bait means you're not very smart. Or a newfag. Take a look at that picture.

>>128181994
>The majority of the human population literally doesn't understand music
That IS true, but the specially heinous takes and ways in which that ignorance is displayed is pretty 4chan-exclusive, or at least terminal-internet-culture-specific

>>128181997
The best bait is true

>>128181997
>Take a look at that picture
every time I do it makes me chuckle

>>128182008
Good thing it's not even remotely a good bait then!

>>128182017
evidently it is

>>128182007
Because 4chan is anonymous. Stupid shit we say here has no consequences on subsequent discussions, nothing can be tied back to you in any way unless you're a tripfag, even then people won't care.

>>128182040
Tumblr and Reddit are not *exactly* anonymous and they're the same. Twitter or whatever it goes by these days too, to a lesser extent. It's the internet. We cannot afford to forget that as much as it has encroached into real life, it's NOT real life.

>>128182028
Nope. It uses an overused format, unsubstantial text and is aimed at the insignificant, anonymous and unprofessional population of basket weaving mongolian imageboard. Evidently, it's as terrible as it gets.

>>128182068
Evidently not

>>128182080
Evidently maybe

>>128182067
They're not the same. Composer/theory subreddits are more useful than anyplace else on the internet for music theory, for example.

>>128181776
>>128181830
Hey anon do you know which Bach piece has the best counterpoint?
All of them.
Just listen to all 1,128 pieces
Here's a link https://www.youtube.com/
You're welcome

>>128182101
nice strawman, moron

>>128180817
try K. 417

>>128182126
it is precisely the same thing you did.

>>128182096
the best place on the internet for music theory is annas archive lmao

I was going to dismas Zelenka but he's not bad

>>128182228
True, the best way to learn is on your own. But sometimes questions need to be answered. Real-time guidance and corrections are necessary part of learning process, and books do not provide that. AI does to some extent, but it's not there yet, at least in music theory. Once it gets there, other places won't matter.

>>128182168
>>128182126
>>128182101
you're both partially correct but off the mark. Anon 1, seeking the "best" Scarlatti sonata for counterpoint assumes one clearly stands out, yet Scarlatti’s 555 sonatas emphasize virtuosity and harmony over Bach-like counterpoint. Check out K. 87 or K. 27 for decent examples, though they’re less intricate. Anon 2, claiming all sonatas are equally great is valid, they’re concise and consistent, but it sidesteps the question and lacks insight. Bach’s 1,128 works cover diverse genres (Fugues, Cantatas, Concertos, etc.), so Anon 1’s sarcasm misses the mark; Scarlatti’s catalog is essentially only sonatas aside from a few sacred works, making the comparison uneven. stop arguing and be precise: Anon 1, specify what “best counterpoint” means; Anon 2, offer concrete suggestions next time.

>>128182345
Do you know which Mahler piece has the best counterpoint?
All of them

>>128182168
Sure it is, champ

>>128182369
>Do you know which Mahler piece has the best counterpoint?
M5.5 and M9.3.

Sibelius piece with the best counterpoint?

>>128182635
LOL

>>128178774
>>128178774
Hovanhess is pretty good. Check out all 424 of his pieces for the best counterpoint

Sechter is good. Listen to his 5000 fugues (midi, most of them are not recorded), there you will find greatest contrapuntal techniques.

>>128182693
>>128182773
ever seen a more bitter little boy

Top 3 greatest composers who died by conducting

>Lully
>?
>...

>>128182926
>Lully refused to have his leg amputated, fearing he would lose his ability to dance
fucking frenchies I swear

>>128182926
Eybler had a stroke while conducting Mozart's Requiem that he was originally supposed to complete. He lived for another ten years or so, but that stroke took him out of the music world pretty much entirely. He wrote some really nice chamber music and a couple of oratorios and symphonies which are worthwhile I think. Ironically his own requiem is shit

>>128181956
huh that's the same label as >>128179929

Are you allowed to bring a gameboy or something in at Wagner's operas? 5 hours is a long time to sit doing nothing

>>128183030
why is Celestial Harmonies at war with typography

>>128183038
>5 hours is a long time
Then don't go
>doing nothing
>looking at the stage where the action is unfolding is "doing nothing"
definitely don't go

>>128183038
You sound like you have the kind of brainrot that makes you check your phone for 3/4ths of a movie you're "watching"

>>128183115
nta Who doesn't do that? Are you unironically in your 40s? I grew up with flip phones and I instantly adopted the iPhone when it came out.

>>128183205
>Who doesn't do that?
People who haven't been mentally destroyed by abusing attention-span-destroying media, and actually want to watch the film?
>I grew up with flip phones and I instantly adopted the iPhone when it came out
...Okay? Congrats?

>>128183230
>abusing attention-span-destroying media
You replied to me in a couple of minutes.

>>128183205
I don't. I taught myself to be more attentive and respectful to the art I'm consuming, especially classical music, which is literal waste of time if you don't pay enough attention to it.

>>128183246
you ever heard of 4chanx

I get physically restless if I try listening to classical music without checking my phone.

>>128183246
....And? I'm here, not at the fucking cinema you utter clown.

>>128183264
I'm not an image board addict so I don't need 4chan blugins or whatever.
>>128183278
Yes, you're here. Being an addict.

>>128183276
I hear there's meds for that

>>128183276
I'm surprised you even listen to classical

>>128183289
Oooh, you're *stupid* stupid. Nevermind then, disregard everything that's been said and enjoy your phone time, ipad baby.

>>128183349
I'm a NDS baby.

>>128178582
>truth is boring because muh dopamine centers are fried and starved for novelty
weakling

wow you guys are fucking faggy pencildick nerds, no wonder classical is dead

>>128183476
huh?

>>128183495
point to the post that hurt your feelings

>>128180816
Which set should I listen?

>>128183078
>>128183115
Never heard of Paul Morphy's Opera House Game?

>>128184496
Morphy loved opera and he beat his opponents as quickly as possible so he wouldn't miss anything

>>128184496
No.

>>128184541
https://lichess.org/study/xAo78qLb/truC6WoM

Norma has a pasta named after it btw-which I've tried and failed to make a couple of time

>>128184563
I didn't say I wanted to.

>>128184587
Well now you know

>>128178403 (OP)
Was listening to Chopin competition winners concert and Tianyao Lyu is absolutely flat (with a dress to show it). Damn delicious.

https://youtu.be/ITbd9SiajUE?t=7231

>>128184796
you listen with your eyes?

>>128184796
maho more like my whore

>>128184805
The primary activity is listening, even if I also watched.

What does it say about me if chess bores me to tears but I love backgammon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBqZ9IDJOrM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU_jmvrPE_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRx3j7kmhlw

>>128184833
boardgames are a form of intellectual masturbation.

>>128184892
So it's good

>>128184833
It's surprising. Especially when you watch channels like Agadmator that got through all the moves and all the variants it's pretty fascinating. I'm pretty bad at it though

>>128185044
>all the moves and all the variants
That's part of why I don't care for chess though. I like the added factor of chance that tables games have.

>>128183724
the stereo one, ie not the one you posted

>>128184796
ok but is shie good?

Did pianism peak in the first quarter of the 20th century or around the middle of the 20th century? I constantly see people talk about Kempff, Richter, Arrau, Horowitz, etc. as the true greats, but then sometimes you hear them talk about earlier pianists like Godowski, Hofmann, Koczalski, etc. as the TRUE greats that have never been surpassed. Well which is it?

>>128185529
yes

>>128185529
middle > current > early

>>128183038
do you not know German? dumbass

why can't they perform classical music during the Super Bowl halftime? c'mon

>>128185529
baby, pianism is peaking RIGH NOW

There is no release that has all of Richter's recordings of Beethoven's piano sonatas, and as such, I won't be listening to it at all.

>>128185551
>>128185611
Mechanical, Asian virtuoso wankery isn't TRUE pianism.

>>128185706
no one said it is, baby

>>128183038
That's what the half an hour breaks are for.

>>128185752
>5 hour opera
>3 half-hour breaks
Imagine spending almost an entire work day at the opera just to watch Wagner. The epitome of excess. Gross.

>>128185810
Wagner warned people that they mustn't engage in any serious intellectual activity on the day of the performance, recommending them to spend their time casually strolling, thus allowing for a fresh mind to fully appreciate the entirety of the work.

>>128185941
Wagner was such a faggot, lol.

>>128185941
>Wagner told people they need to be stupid for a day in order to watch his shit
I agree

>>128185965
Wagner was also a leech on society and his rants against Jews were a projection.

>>128185954
>>128185965
It's the same process for any ridiculously long artwork. If you know you're going to see a full performance of Hamlet or a seven hour long arthouse film you naturally restrict yourself from doing too much otherwise you'll be exhausted by the time you get out.

>>128186025
Wagner's operas insist on themselves.

>>128185810
>>128185954
>>128185965
>>128186033
le epic anti-intellectualism

>>128186051
get a STEM degree before even considering calling other people anti-intellectual.

>>128186051
It's not antiintellectualism, it's antipseudointellectualism

>>128186025
>exhausted
If you're mentally weak, maybe, yeah. It's understandable that wagnerians would heed his advice.

>>128186085
Anon stop LARPing, if you've ever sat in a movie theatre or opera house for five hours then you'd know this has nothing to do with mental strength. What makes it tolerable has more to do with familiarity with the work and relaxing yourself.

>>128186123
Hey sure

>>128178550
>>The 12 Greatest Contrapuntists of All Time
Bach and 11 of his sons

It's going to take a while

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csO9ssCQvTk&list=OLAK5uy_kWFJ3zDivI1dBlckrI0CWxV-HJbvLAJn4&index=27

>>128185941
Wagner said that his Operas were best enjoyed while playing Tetris

Wagner said that his Operas were originally meant to be a prank and couldn't believe people were actually staging and attending them

I watched Wagner's The Ring all in one go once and seven days later Wagner crawled out my monitor and started ranting about Jews

I realized almost all the sets I have for Mozart's piano sonatas are modern. What are some recommended older sets? Aside from Haebler and Arrau.

Wagner said that little brown boys are the best

>>128186910
Lili Kraus

>>128185506
All of them were good.

>>128187537
ok but is shie good?

now playing

start of Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 4 in D, Op. 83
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmE1uftIvBc&list=OLAK5uy_kjj9b8a7mpxoM5IAk5MtN_cKx-dUSL1D8&index=2

start of Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8 in C minor, Op. 110
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6VBEALmCzc&list=OLAK5uy_kjj9b8a7mpxoM5IAk5MtN_cKx-dUSL1D8&index=5

start of Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 10 in Ab, Op. 118
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHtVd6z4-W4&list=OLAK5uy_kjj9b8a7mpxoM5IAk5MtN_cKx-dUSL1D8&index=9

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kjj9b8a7mpxoM5IAk5MtN_cKx-dUSL1D8

Wagner would often be invited to dinner by aristocrats and patrons of the arts wherever he went, and every single time when he was done eating the main dish he would loudly ask what's for desert. Afterwards he would again loudly state that he would have his coffee. Not ask for it, simply announce his want. Not necessarily rude, but still kinda weird and uncouth, you know?

>Today I will remind them

BAB
A
B

>DAILY REMINDER
>DAILY REMINDER

IAA
A
A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWOIKCtjiw&list=RDKyWOIKCtjiw&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
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>average BABIAA listener

We will disarm and subdue every 18th-19th century heretic that would put on a Mozart Piano concerto or Chopin Nocturne

We are the Mockers of Mozart
We put a chokehold on classicism

We are the Cuckolders of Chopin
We are the Rapists of Romantics

We are the murderers of Mahler
We strike fear in every pretentious and neurotic writer of 1 hour symphonies>average BABIAA listener

We will disarm and subdue every 18th-19th century heretic that would put on a Mozart Piano concerto or Chopin Nocturne

We are the Mockers of Mozart
We put a chokehold on classicism

We are the Cuckolders of Chopin
We are the Rapists of Romantics

We are the murderers of Mahler
We strike fear in every pretentious and neurotic writer of 1 hour symphonies

>Listening to Bach
>not listening to Mozart
>Listening to Marais
>Not listening to Haydn
>Listening to Ravel
>not listening to Mahler
>listening to Stravinsky
>not listening to Schoenberg or Shostakovich

Is there a better feeling in this world?

>Your Romanticism
>My Foot
>Your Classicism
>My Fist

I will crush the Mozart enjoyers, and liberate the Chopin listeners with Vivaldi, Josquin, and Perotin

>Bach
>Machaut
>Ives
>Marais
>Buxtehude
>Stravinsky
>Reich
>Bartok

No Mozart, No Brahms, No Haydn, No Mahler
No Autistic Teutonic spirit shall oppress or taint the Gallic, Latin, and Slavic soul

Mozart gives me the ick,

As does Brahms, Mahler, early-middle Beethoven, Bruckner, Chopin, Schumann, Strauss II, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Reger, Berg, Tchaikovsky, Boulez, Stockhausen, Haydn, Bruch, Salieri, Shostakovich, Clementi, and Prokofiev

That is all

>when they listen to Mozart and Haydn concertos and completely neglect the Sun Kings court
>When they listen to vocal works by Verdi, Rossini or Puccini, but not Palestrina or the Franco-Flemish School
>When they don't listen to Marin Marais more frequently than Beethoven or Brahms
>No Perotin or Medieval Music

>If it ain't BAROQUE, don't fix it
>I dumped her because she BAROQUED my heart
>I had to go to the doctor because I BAROQUED my leg in a gondola accident
>I would go to the concerto with you, but I'm BAROQUE
>The Baroque BAROQUED the renaissance mold

Remember not all Romantics are bad but all bad composers do tend be Romantic, except for Classical, all Classical composers are shit
Below is a list of acceptable Romantics:

>Field
>Chabrier
>Franck
>Tarrega
>Wagner*
>Any of the Russian 5
>Grieg
>Alkan
>Late Beethoven

NO MOZART
NO CHOPIN
NO MAHLER
ALL ROMANTICS SCRAM!

ALL CLASSICISTS EAT SHIT AND DIE
THIS THREAD IS FOR MARIN MARAIS!

SONATA FORM SHOULD DIE
ONLY CONCERTO GROSSO FOR I!

HAYDN IS LIKE A ROTTEN WHEAT
WHAT I NEED IS A BACH CELLO SUITE


BACH AND BEFORE, IVES AND AFTER

ty daily reminder sister

>>128189047
anytime axe wound

>>128189047
I really hope you're samefagging because I can' fathom what manner of brain-impaired midwit would acknolwedge spammers, nevermind thank them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a5XyIEmBYg
>hyper-focus on a niche topic
hmm...

>>128189240
boy would make a cute trap, just saiyan

>>128189194
Just being polite.

>>128189260
Do you say thank you to the drunkard who vomits on your shoes, curses you, then leaves?

>>128189267
No, but I do say "bless you" when a stranger sneezes in my vicinity, provided I'm not tongue-tied in that moment.

why do women always try to rape me when i tell them i listen to Scriabin?

>>128189047
who's sister? is your sister cute anon?

>>128189240
god, i hate that cuck so much.

I unironically love Rose’s recording of the Lalo cello concerto. Rose managed to project over an orchestra while maintaining a beautiful tone - underrated cellist.
https://youtu.be/mSo9wcZRxGo

>>128181674
this
musical genius to me isn't about learning contrived stuff like counterpoint but to have an ear for hits. quirky taste isn't the same as good taste, good taste is about having a sense of what would be popular. a great chef would invent a dish that many people would like to eat if they can afford it. in classical music a great piece would be something like beethoven's fur elise. music and art not being about popularity is a cope, anyone would love to write hits if they could, not everyone wants to be famous but any sane person would happily take the money.

>>128189582
Grosse Fuge wasn’t a hit - I think it’s limiting to call musical genius an ear for hits because hits are dictated by the audience, and audience tastes change. Wonderful art stands the test of time sometimes in spite of audience reception at the time it was made.

>>128189676
>Grosse Fuge
sounds like wet dog and it doesn't have 100 million views. yeah it's by beethoven but every musician has filler content.

>>128189761
This just highlights my point. Not a hit for you, but has been for many other people (including many composers). And I’m not saying you need to like the Grosse Fuge, I think it’s just a good example of the versatility that contributes to his musical genius.

>>128189761
>Beethoven's late works
>filler
Urge to strangle every normalcattle.

>>128189240
The first point is part of the reason why I find music theory tubers so fucking insufferable, overcomplicating and mystifying music does nothing to help educate people and only makes people misunderstand simple concepts.

I will say even this dude's friends engage in it when he gave the example of perfect pitch as if it's something you have or you don't. It's not something you have, it's something you know. For example: You know the pitch of E flat in your head, it's the first note of the first theme of Beethoven's Eroica (You know the duuuuduuuuduuuu duuuduuduuduuduuun dun dun). Unless you're tonedeaf, you can absolutely recreate and remember this pitch. As adults we might not remember pitches on their own that well, but we absolutely can remember them as part of a piece of music we know. The only difference between a child with "perfect pitch" and an adult who learned it this way is that the child will be slightly faster, but not more accurate, the accuracy is identical. If you combine it with a good relative pitch, now you have something basically as good as perfect pitch. And for tuning an instrument, this way of learning is more than sufficient. Wanna tune the E string of a guitar? Just remember the first note of BWV 548's fugue, do the same for other pieces of music and there you go. You can learn the entire chromatic scale this way and at that point you have perfect pitch. And this is what I mean, if you just explain it in an accessible and easy to understand fashion, any music theory concept is comprehendible to even the biggest retard.

Jacob Collier is truly the epitome of a wise quote by Terry Davis
>An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity

>>128181674
>>Look at me I can play three different musical lines at the same time
>>No they don't actually sound good but it's complicated which means its good
Sometimes they sound good, sometimes they don't; just like any tool, you unnuanced retard.

>>128181950
Just because it's a fugue? Is it because it's the only fugue you know by him? Be honest! He has a few more fugue-sonatas that aren't known by a nickname.
>>128182147
Like this one! Very nice, anon.
>>128181679
Ah, but that's just not true, is it? Not every piece is inspired, from any composer, and not all of Scarlatti's pieces are short or in the Baroque style. Some are quite long, some are simple, melody-and-accompaniment arias. I've already listened to all of them, some more than once, so I was curious what /classical/ thinks if they already think Scarlatti is one of the best contrapuntists. You're just posting the first one and weaseling your way out! Hehehe!

>>128186329
>Carlo Grante
Bad choice! Listen to the Naxos volumes by different artists!

>>128182345
Ah, it's me! I'm Anon 1! Hehehe. Well, my question was simple, vague, and open-ended on purpose, you see... I just wanted to see how people interpret "best counterpoint" in Scarlatti's output. I wasn't fishing for a single "correct" answer, just curious to see which sonatas others think best showcase his handling of counterpoint within his own idiom.

>>128190053
Look at me I can combine three different lines on a canvas.
>No the result doesn't actually look good but it's complicated which means its good.

painting is overrated.

>>128190096
Did you check who you replied to, anon? Did you hurt your head? Are you okay? Do you need some fresh air?

>>128190045
>Just because it's a fugue?
No.
>Is it because it's the only fugue you know by him?
No.
>Be honest!
I am.
>He has a few more fugue-sonatas that aren't known by a nickname.
Those aren't fugues, but use fugal techniques.

>>128190145
>No.
>No.
>I am.
Alright, I believe you!
>Those aren't fugues, but use fugal techniques.
That's why I called them fugue-sonatas, silly! Can't you read? Hehehe.

NU
>NU
NU
>NU

The 12 Greatest Harmonists of All Time ("bar none!")

J.S. Bach
Haydn
Beethoven
Schubert
Berlioz
Chopin
Dvořák
Debussy
Wagner
Vaughan Williams
Bartók
Poulenc

>>128190385
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s13EUKBfvLQ

>>128190385
is Hurwitz an actual musician or composer?

No, therefore he is not an authority on anything. now please fuck off.

>>128178550
This is deranged and he clearly drank the Palestrina kool-aid just like everyone else

>>128181674
Its none of those things lmao

>>128190385
>no Scriabin, again
Pathetic.

>>128190427
>blatant appeal to authority
lol
lmao, even

>>128190427
He actually was a percussionist in an orchestra.

>>128190681
Oh no
Wait was he a timpanist or a percussionist

>>128190720
Timpani is a percussion instrument. He also played piano and violin at some point, even learned Rach's C# prelude. Besides, you don't need to be a chef to judge food.

>>128190385
his hate for mozart knows no bounds

>>128190814
maho-kun and hurwitz should have a boxing match

>>128190814
>mozart
>great harmonist
What's next, Mozart the god? He got top place in greatest melodists already. Fuck off you tourist imbecile.

>>128190848
Mozart is the greatest composer of all time in harmony, melody and counterpoint. He is also very sexy and has a huge penis

>t. not mozart

>>128190886
But enough about Scriabin.

>>128190646
fallacy fallacy.

>>128190935
fallacy fallacy

>>128190427
>only those who do the activity can comment or analyze it
cringe

>>128190001
good post

>>128190385
>Berlioz
>Dvořák
>Vaughan Williams
>Poulenc
bizarre choices

>>128191018
cope harder, faggot.

A fact that everyone should at least intuitively understand:

>we have to have finally also Vagnner.
>Vagner, you know, I mean, people who like Vagner think he's the greatest at everything. People who like any composer think they're the greatest at everything, but they're not. And they don't have to be because genius composers are good at everything. That doesn't mean the the recipe that the balance of elements is equally prominent in all aspects of their art. And it shouldn't be because if everybody was equally good at everything, everything would sound the same. It would just be a a a a featureless blob of of of I don't know what. I mean, it's the differences that make these people interesting, the imbalances, you know. So, Vagner Vagner was a harmony guy ever from from Tristan and his older. Holy cow. The Tristan chord, chromatic harmonies, sludge. He invented all of it. Oh yes, I give him full credit for it. And so I hope all you Vagner people are happy because that's where he belongs. As well as, you know, one of the greatest orchestrators ever, especially in the field of opera, not symphonic orchestration, but oporatic orchestration.

>>128191054
very compelling. please refer to: >>128178714

>>128191088
Don't make me whiteknight a savior of classical music in a dead general of a dead board. Get used to Hurwitzposting, it's not going anywhere.

>>128191130
get used to being dead.

now playing

start of JS Bach: Suite n. 4 in E flat major, BWV 1010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAkLQkWNXCQ&list=OLAK5uy_lBE-ikdT1ouev9Udl4kS25CwASW9weJYg&index=20

start of JS Bach: Suite n. 5 in C minor, BWV 1011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc6b255TDp4&list=OLAK5uy_lBE-ikdT1ouev9Udl4kS25CwASW9weJYg&index=26

start of JS Bach: Suite n. 6 in D major, BWV 1012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8FJ4bQaI9Y&list=OLAK5uy_lBE-ikdT1ouev9Udl4kS25CwASW9weJYg&index=31

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lBE-ikdT1ouev9Udl4kS25CwASW9weJYg

>Over the years, Bach s Cello Suites have become a monument to which all cellists pay homage. Though some of the greats waited until late in their careers to record them, (Casals, Rostropovich), others have recorded several versions (Yo-Yo Ma and Pieter Wispelwey two, Janos Starker three). Ophélie Gaillard is among the latter group. Her first recording earned international praise and a French Classical Music Award. Ten years later, she revisits Bach s masterworks performing on a cello made in 1737 by Matteo Goffriller, a contemporary of the composer.

>>128191054
>one of the greatest orchestrators ever, especially in the field of opera, not symphonic orchestration, but oporatic orchestration.
retarded distinction

time to revisit Karajan's (1980s digital) Brahms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I73vLjBHY8&list=OLAK5uy_kZGgcmUcF2vbcWYOtU8mdn7t9uVr8oncw&index=5

Karajan is especially a master of the second symphony.

>>128191273
It's not. Symphonic orchestration is in a different realm of forms and sonorities.

One of the things baffling about YouTube Music is when you search for music and recordings at-large, the search function works very well, almost perfectly (there have been a few occasions where things aren't labeled correctly and/or the search doesn't seem to register the main performer's name).

Yet the search function within one's own library, of albums and recordings one has added, is utterly useless and broken. I don't understand. How can this incongruity be reconciled?

>>128191130
who's the saviour of classical?

>>128191363
>How can this incongruity be reconciled?
It can't. Buy a cheap harddrive, pirate all the music you listen to and create your library as you will.

>>128191303
So what's the Siegfried Idyll, operatic orchestration?

>>128191417
Well, it's not really a problem because I use the primary search function to find the recording and listen that way, and then just as often I find my way to it either from the Recently Added or Recently Listened sections. It's just weird, like what's the point of adding things to your library unless you keep it small and tidy to where you can reasonably search through it visually in totality. Unfortunately I add recordings as a way to keep track of what I want to listen later, so that's not an option for me as I have thousands of recordings added. Still, it's weird, because they obviously know how to make a functional search bar. Maybe it's a way to prevent people from becoming completely insulated within their own libraries, so they continually explore new music they may come across by searching? I don't know.

>>128191420
An exception. Single movement non-operatic orchestration that is obviously great but not anything of the symphonic scale or revolutionary in that genre.
>>128191459
>Maybe it's a way to prevent people from becoming completely insulated within their own libraries, so they continually explore new music they may come across by searching?
That's possibly true. I've never used those libraries, so I don't know how they function, but can't you just scroll down and ctrl+f?

>>128191514
>I've never used those libraries, so I don't know how they function, but can't you just scroll down and ctrl+f?
I used to do that in the first few months when my library size was only in the few hundreds, but as it's grown to an unmanageable size, that's not really practical because the library is in an album cover view, and only loads a bit at a time, so you'd have to scroll down for quite a while in my case to get the entire library available on a single page to be properly ctrl-f'd if you get me. In hindsight, perhaps I should have been more discriminatory in the albums I added to my library, but like I said, it's a useful way to track recordings I'm interested in and want to listen to in the near future, particularly when viewing the library sorted by Recently Saved. Pic is sorted by A-Z and scrolled down a bit into the Bach section lol. So for searching through my Bach, it'd be useful since it'd load pretty early on, but getting to anything which starts with a letter in the middle of the alphabet would be unpractical this way, plus not everything is sorted probably (you'll notice in the pic these recordings start "Bach, JS: [Piece]", but sometimes it'll just be "[piece]" like "Goldberg Variations" or it'll be "JS Bach: Piece", etc.)

In any case, thanks for taking the time to read about something as uninteresting as the finer functions of a streaming service you don't use lol.

orchestration is overrated. the actual music is more important.

feels like a Beethoven 9 morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6H9bMONCJA&list=OLAK5uy_kaqFqUByp_CNFNtepboUe6DTxa0p0yztI&index=34

Simon Rattle's Beethoven symphonies cycle with the Vienna Phil.: yay/nay?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUtw03MFquc&list=OLAK5uy_nZfQjEIPDHerBohyKdr2BT4r5UXpl7Fbs&index=5

>>128190741
I wouldn't be so quick to lump the timpanists with the percussionists

>>128191579
timbre is part of actual music.

>>128191704
yes but not as important as the rest

>>128191704
orchestration is essentially turd polishing and that is why Bach sounds good on any instrument.

>>128191579

arranger bros, how do we respond?

>>128191837
with "yes you are correct"

>>128191825
Retard.

>>128191911
there is no need to sign your posts.

>>128191925
That is why I signed yours.

>>128190901
Based. Gonna go listen to his 8th now.

>>128191605
I like Blomstedt, his Prague recording is also very enjoyable, even does all the repeats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaRuTF6Xi0k

Well performed and uses the european seating arrangement while not being HIP and having crystal clear modern production

>>128191579
>>128191704
I personally dislike orchestration when it's really boring, Chopin's first piano concerto is one that comes to mind. Though both of Chopin's concertos would have worked better if they were just entirely written for strings and piano only. I once went to a performance that arranged the second concerto like that and it was quite lovely. The best orchestration is when you only write for what you need.

rachmanino :3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm7wIy-kBY0

>>128191971
>I like Blomstedt, his Prague recording is also very enjoyable, even does all the repeats.
Lovely, thanks!

>>128191993
Surprised I wasn't familiar with these pieces, I thought I knew all of Rachmaninoff's solo piano music. Guess not.

Scriabin’s breakfast

>>128191579
Of course how the music sounds is important. Frankly I think it’s underrated in the classical world with too many people thinking pieces can be just transcribed to any instrument and it doesn’t matter it’s still the same piece

>>128191971
>Chopin's first piano concerto is one that comes to mind. Though both of Chopin's concertos would have worked better if they were just entirely written for strings and piano only.
Zimerman's rendition is pretty good, he improved the orchestration. Chopin's music played by orchestra has its own unique charm imo, even if if's not great. Recordings like Hofmann's and Rosenthal's cut some orchestral bits (like second theme of 1st mov in 1st concerto) also.

>>128192425
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maDgVXxV1b0
case in point
>>128191825
lmao

>>128192593
>piece still sounds good
thank you for proving his point

Scriabin’s best counterpoint?

>>128192627
me when I'm deaf

>>128192635
check the comments if you want proof you're alone on this one

>>128187879
He was a swine. I’d have just ignored him till he asked politely and let his statement hang awkwardly in the air

>>128192656
>the uncultured masses on youtube know better than you actually

>>128187879
see: >>128186013

>>128192672
yes, they somehow do. that's how dumb you are.

>>128190385
Best Berlioz harmony?

>>128187879
you can do that when you write Tristan und Isolde

>>128190427
his obnoxious manchild personality is enough to discredit him
ironically with how he hates his music, he might've gotten along with Mozart (though I am sure Mozart was much funnier to be around)

>>128192861
Ad Hominem

>>128192914
someone's personality is a great indicator of their mind's contents and thus of whether or not they should have any authority when speaking

>>128192945
Yeah, it's still an Ad Hominem my guy

>>128192861
Actually his personality is why he should be taken seriously. He's not one of those "safe" softies and is not afraid of genuine criticism and critical thinking. And he is never arrogant either, although ultimately one has to lean eithe way and he leans more on the arrogant side,which is completely fine as long as you're not a softie yourself.

new
>>128193068
>>128193068
>>128193068

>>128192593
>>128192656
yeah this sounds like shit. the glazing in the comments is from teacher/player nerds who enjoy the novelty at a celebral level (mental gymnastics) that it can be played at all on double bass. it's not a natural and sincere way to enjoy music.

*cerebral