Thread 128193068

Dvorak edition
https://youtu.be/kPezhIAMp-4

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://rentry.org/classicalgen

Previous: >>128178403

We should make Hurwitz editions in the future.

>>128193068 (OP)
Dvorak Souls Special Edition

Ives

https://youtu.be/xVj8LY347iQ

Ives

https://youtu.be/FoBCKcw2zRU

>>128193097
you should tie a noose around your neck and jump off a stool

>>128193057
>and he is never arrogant either
are we talking about the same guy

>>128193256
I did admit he leans arrogant, but he's not. His attitude might come off as arrogant at worst, but nothing he says does.

You don't get to say whether a meal tastes good or not unless you're a licensed chef. You just can't know if it's good or bad unless you've been trained. Sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icZob9-1MDw

>>128193684
>food analogy

>>128193766
You don't get to say whether fucking feels good or not unless you're a pornstar with at least one award. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Without the award and the paycheck to show for it you might as well be a virgin. Them's the rules.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOlm0TGeZHY

>>128193796
>>128193796
>Wagner's piano works

A musician's opinion tends to be more informed and closer to the objective (you could call it 'intersubjective') truth, but a non-musician is just as capable of having such opinions.

Top 3 polypaedo composers
>J.S. Bach
>?
>...

>>128193796
I have the Iron Ring award

>>128193684
Best Gordon Ramsey recipe?
All of them

>>128194069
Can't you read? If you're not a professionally trained composer you literally cannot have any kind of opinion or notion about music. This is just the way of the world.

>>128193684
99% of people have cringe taste, they might obsess about bach and nothing else, they might obsess about skrillex and nothing else, otherwise if they had excellent taste then it would tend to lead to them making music themselves with their taste guiding their decisions and leading to making millions of dollars. you can be a critic but you're going to get things wrong such that a majority of people will disagree with you.

>>128194235
Bach and before Skillrex and after

>>128194137
did you ever see a more bitter little boy

>>128194235
gibberish

>>128194264
Is this the start of a poem or something?

>Listening to classical
>Think: "Mmm this is quite an interesting opening I like this"
>It's just the orchestra tuning up

Hurwitz's favorite composers are Mahler and Bruckner and he doesn't care for Bach
this alone should exclude his opinions from having any merit

>>128194633
Bach is a little overrated though, no?

>>128194633
Hurwitz doesn't have a favorite, but if you should assign 3 to him, it would be Haydn, Beethoven and Mahler. Not Bruckner or Bach
>>128194772
Bach cultists are as bad as, if not worse than Wagner cultists. But no, he's perfectly rated by actual classical connoisseurs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aT9kG7o_SE&list=PLhZN1UyI47QkYe6NC7v6ZM-9lLHY7cbsb&index=12

Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDf2Ti4aZk0&list=OLAK5uy_mpqBol2xev7mUbPpB2q0qtwK0_-96yO-4&index=6

>>128194802
>not worse than Wagner cultists
Literally impossible.

>>128195017
Well, that was my initial thought, but as time goes by, it's proving to be otherwise. Bach cultists will insist that you should like him, despite never having listened to any other baroque composer whatsoever. Wagner cultists are a circlejerk, and the resident one is actually funny and I have nothing against him. Fuck Bach cultists.

>>128195048
You sound like a bitter wagnerian setting a false flag

>>128194802
"Bach cultists" are people with ears

>>128195077
how dare you insult Wagner like that, I'll kill you

>>128194772
Bach, like Mozart, is impossible to overrate, and holding this view (or better yet, knowing this centuries-old fact) is literally the only prerequisite to have your musical opinions hold any merit. know this and whatever else you say will be payed attentuon to.

further proof that Bach is underrated

The Bachcuck is falseflagging to make Wagner look bad.

>>128195089
Cool story bro

this place should have some sort of marking for your favorite musicians so that we could filter anyone who doesn't love Bach

>>128195131
that was not a story

>>128195132
That's fascism

>>128195190
this isn't the state, retard

>>128195209
That's not the definition of fascism

Worst cultists

>Wagner
>Scriabin
>Mahler

>>128195215
neither is >>128195132

>>128195278
Scriabin cultists just want to have fun

>>128195077
And shit inbetween them.

>>128195278
Objectively speaking, Bach cultists are far worse than Mahler cultists.

>>128195542
t. earlet

>>128195556
>worse than Mahler cultists
the sheer state of bach denialists

>>128195571
I can assure you, I've listened to more Bach than you have listened to every composers combined.

Can we please have a bit of decorum in here, it's a classic music thread for Pete's sake!

Can we please have a bit of decorum in here, it's a classical music thread for Pete's sake!

>>128196192
the fuck do you want, dicksleeve

>>128195749
I can assure you I have fucked your mouth every night to completion for the past 15 years and you have lovingly swallowed every last drop of my vile, reeking, off-green dicksnot

>>128196192
Right! Let's discuss Scarlatti's counterpoint and which pieces best showcase his mastery of it.

>>128196696
did you ever see a more bitter little boy

Upon further reflection, actually overrated.

>>128196799
Slightly, yeah. Still one of the greatest.

>>128196192
Is there anywhere on the internet to actually discuss music without all the retard and schizo shitposting? Haven't been on /mu/ in a long time and it's fucking dire now.

>>128196825
>internet
>without all the retard and schizo shitposting
Do you go about your life expecting warm ice cream or dry water? Go meet people in real life if you don't like how it is on the internet.

>>128196865
Sorry to inform you newfriend but it used to be possible to have a sincere discussion on this board. Maybe follow your own advice if all you can do is spew vitriol.

>>128196782
Than you? No, not really, hehehe!

>>128196799
Not overrated in the slightest. Underrated is more fitting, since his late works such as polonaise-fantaisie, barcarolle, 4th ballade, fantasy, cello sonata etc. are only comparable to late Beethoven in the brilliance of mastery in its craft, and not nearly as popular as his early nocturnes, concertos, waltzes etc. which are masterpieces in their own right.

>>128197053
>Chopin
>underrated

>>128197079
Further proof that Chopin is underrated.

>>128197053
That's not how it works, buddy. Chopin's popular and early works are overrated, therefore even if his late masterpieces are underrated, it evens out, and he's still overrated.

>>128197103
Further proof that Chopin is underrated.

>>128197119
see >>128197079

>>128197141
Further proof that Chopin is underrated.

>>128196982
>used to be possible
You can't lie about that, li'l faggot. It's been like this since day one, except the racism went from ironic to sincere and the schizo shit from funny to sad.

>>128194325
especially americans have comically low musical comprehension. 4chan seems to select for low functioning degenerates too. anon might hate the guts out of a song with 100 million views but simps for an obscure artist with 10k views over 10 years. why couldn't they become more successful if they're as good as you say they are? could it be that you're wrong, that you have bad taste, that you're a huge fucking retard with a piss poor school system and no music stars to host your kids shows etc when you were growing up so you have a clouded perception of what music even is, in the same way that you would never beecome proficient at advanced math and such and you wouldn't even dream of being a mathematician because you suck at math like how you suck at music?

This is what convinced me he's the greatest musician in human history.
https://youtu.be/kEacb-9dc78?si=aPScQPb6HxqhwMMj

Post tonalism was a mistake

>>128194633
I only really like Bach's organ works.

>NU
NU
>NU
NU

The 12 Greatest Classical Music Rhythmicists of All Time

Vivaldi
Beethoven
Dvořák
Nielsen
Roussel
Copland
Martinu
Gershwin
Messiaen
Harrison
Stravinsky
Nancarrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku1uXUZ-P6I

>>128197757
Did Dvorak miss a single list yet? Is he the GOAT?

>>128197771
>Is Dvorak the GOAT?
yes, but not because he's on this clown's arbitrary list

Tharaud's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_nXlmcl9o&list=OLAK5uy_mFq5L7jijHUSMXeMRfMr4SGCwBMGxrDpk&index=25

>>128193068 (OP)
My favorite composer

>>128197950
>arbitrary
He's more informed than you.

Has this happened to you /classical/?

>>128198291
I don't play the violin

when is my Bach obsession gonna end, goddamn. every time I take a shower, I am immediately inundated with the mental earworm of his sonatas and partitas for solo violin or other masterpiece, it's too much, I want to enjoy other music again

>>128198306
ngmi

>>128198307
I hope your cancer goes away anon.

>>128198307
Never. That's called Humanity.

>everyone talking about cultists of Bach, Wagner, Scriabin, Chopin, Bruckner, Mahler, Hurwitz
>Mozart cultists not even mentioned once
Damn, further proof that mozart is underrated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdBUh-Xols

>>128198465
I just don't really enjoy the classical era aesthetic.

>>128198465
Mozart cultists aren't annoying and dogmatic, thank god. I appreciate some Mozart cultism. And Chopin cultists are usually humble, and I am probably one myself.

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krC8GUMXGkY&list=OLAK5uy_mxNHLRbuSsANpy9WRwzTHwUI07ILdURaM&index=3

>watching TV show
>smart, cultured character says, "I can't enjoy Mozart anymore. I've listened to him so much it sounds like pop music to me now."
hmm not sure that's how that works

>>128198500
You don't need to be. The music and his life speak for itself. When I was 7, all music teachers I had already regarded him as the greatest.

soulseek? no thanks, i prefer haydnseek

>deBussy
what did he mean by this?

How would you describe the difference between the Baroque and Classical eras? I can hear the difference but I have a hard time articulating it.

>>128198533
You mean Chopin? If yes, then I know. But cultism stems more from the personal obsession with the composer's style rather than attempt at making some "statement" or whatever. But it's interesting, some cultists seem to be much less humble than others. I wonder what causes this. It could have a psychological or biological explanation of some sort.

>>128198590
Then thankfully it's impossible to have a 'zart cult as he is the greatest who ever lived or ever will live.

>>128198586
>I can hear the difference
just trust your ears my nigga

>>128198611
That doesn't follow, but whatever floats your boat!

>>128198586
one is like all about the rational order of things and the other is, uh, all about, uh, the rational order of things.... fuyck

>>128198628
It does actually, if you read your post and my response afterward.

>>128198636
I don't get it.

>>128193068 (OP)
Let's talk about properly underrated composers. Underrated here meaning "you need to seriously listen to classical to have even heard of them"
>Medtner
Extremely obtuse and almost never giving the listener a clear melody to hold on to, but much like the greatest composers, rewards repeated listens. Recommended works to get into him would be: Sonata Reminiscenza, Sonata Tragica, Sonata Ballade
>Alkan
Often maligned as a turbo-Liszt with no artistry, but much like the hungarian one, he actually has some really good stuff if you bother to look. Some of that would be Symphony for Solo Piano, Le Festin D'Esope, Op. 65 (the barcarolle in that set reminds me of Schubert), and the Esquisses.
>CM Widor
Underrated as fuck, though only because at his best he's a genius and at worse he's dogshit. His Symphonies for Organ are good from No. 5 onwards, don't bother with what came before.

>>128198663
Alkan is cute but kinda hacky

>>128197425
To be fair this is what every single Mozart piece sounds like

>>128198741
And that's a good thing.

>>128198663
>Let's talk about properly underrated composers. Underrated here meaning "you need to seriously listen to classical to have even heard of them"
this symphonist, Kurt Atterberg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZcsKMet09A

and another symphonist, Christian Sinding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6GzHaOuVkc

>>128198663
>Extremely obtuse and almost never giving the listener a clear melody to hold on to,
This is a major takeaway. No matter how you try to justify, it just is. I don't think he's underrated. Schoenberg also rewards repeated listenings (virtually all composers do), yet he's quite popular. Medtner's sonatas are pleasure to listen to, but once it's done I can't remember most of it. I don't know how many more listens it takes, but he doesn't hit the "memorable" spot like he should unfortunately. Being a good tunesmith is important to his style, but he just isn't.
>but much like the hungarian one, he actually has some really good stuff
I appreciate Liszt acknowledgement, and I do think Liszt tends to be slightly underrated simply because of his virtuosi reputation, but Alkan isn't. Same problems as with the former, although a composer not worth ignoring.
>>CM Widor
Can't speak on that, so I'll probably give you that one.

If Count Kaiserling didn't fall asleep during Johann Gottlieb Goldberg's performance of the Goldberg Variations, was it played again until he did?

Amazed at this recording of Tod und Verklärung. Never heard it sound this richly textured. The airy oomph at the moment of death in the climax was a really nice touch. If someone knows a better recording, please point me to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV3E45Jx1iM

>>128198784
>This is a major takeaway. No matter how you try to justify, it just is.
I think this is a difference in approach. Obviously melody is a huge part of music, but I draw most of my enjoyment from the structure of the work itself - how "tuneful" it is doesn't matter as much to me, so long as the structure itself is artful. E.g. it's why I enjoy late Chopin much more than his early stuff, even when it contains some of his most inspired melodies (tristesse, ballade 1 etc.).
>but Alkan isn't.
I recommend checking out some of what I quoted, especially his op. 65 and esquisses. They're far more inward looking

>>128198927
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LicPP6A703s

did Bach write the Toccata and Fugue in D minor?
https://youtu.be/tRNqclF5Yvo?
thoughts?

>Today I will remind them

BAB
A
B

>DAILY REMINDER
>DAILY REMINDER

IAA
A
A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWOIKCtjiw&list=RDKyWOIKCtjiw&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
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>average BABIAA listener

We will disarm and subdue every 18th-19th century heretic that would put on a Mozart Piano concerto or Chopin Nocturne

We are the Mockers of Mozart
We put a chokehold on classicism

We are the Cuckolders of Chopin
We are the Rapists of Romantics

We are the murderers of Mahler
We strike fear in every pretentious and neurotic writer of 1 hour symphonies

>Listening to Bach
>not listening to Mozart
>Listening to Marais
>Not listening to Haydn
>Listening to Ravel
>not listening to Mahler
>listening to Stravinsky
>not listening to Schoenberg or Shostakovich

Is there a better feeling in this world?

>Your Romanticism
>My Foot
>Your Classicism
>My Fist

I will crush the Mozart enjoyers, and liberate the Chopin listeners with Vivaldi, Josquin, and Perotin

>Bach
>Machaut
>Ives
>Marais
>Buxtehude
>Stravinsky
>Reich
>Bartok

No Mozart, No Brahms, No Haydn, No Mahler
No Autistic Teutonic spirit shall oppress or taint the Gallic, Latin, and Slavic soul

Mozart gives me the ick,

As does Brahms, Mahler, early-middle Beethoven, Bruckner, Chopin, Schumann, Strauss II, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Reger, Berg, Tchaikovsky, Boulez, Stockhausen, Haydn, Bruch, Salieri, Shostakovich, Clementi, and Prokofiev

That is all

Recently read pic rel. Was pretty good. Yall got fav bookz?

>when they listen to Mozart and Haydn concertos and completely neglect the Sun Kings court
>When they listen to vocal works by Verdi, Rossini or Puccini, but not Palestrina or the Franco-Flemish School
>When they don't listen to Marin Marais more frequently than Beethoven or Brahms
>No Perotin or Medieval Music

>If it ain't BAROQUE, don't fix it
>I dumped her because she BAROQUED my heart
>I had to go to the doctor because I BAROQUED my leg in a gondola accident
>I would go to the concerto with you, but I'm BAROQUE
>The Baroque BAROQUED the renaissance mold

NO MOZART
NO CHOPIN
NO MAHLER
ALL ROMANTICS SCRAM!

ALL CLASSICISTS EAT SHIT AND DIE
THIS THREAD IS FOR MARIN MARAIS!

SONATA FORM SHOULD DIE
ONLY CONCERTO GROSSO FOR I!

HAYDN IS LIKE A ROTTEN WHEAT
WHAT I NEED IS A BACH CELLO SUITE


BACH AND BEFORE, IVES AND AFTER

Why havent classical music orcjestras incorporated electric instruments?

>>128200307
ywnbaw.

>>128200307
They have. Plenty of modern classical composers use electric guitars.

>>128200307
Father of elecronic music is a classical composer, dumbass.

>>128200525
On the second thought "electric" is not "electronic". I'm sure there are composers who use electric instruments, but it just destroys instrument's expressiveness and dynamics, so you can see why composers avoid such lowbrow styles.

>>128200307
it's gay

>>128200590
Why does it destroy exoressiveness and dynamics?

>>128200620
The best electric pianos available still feel like absolute shit compared to the real thing, try it for yourself sometime. Imagine how much worse an electric violin would be

>>128200718
I just think they are so powerful.
But you are probably right.

>>128200620
It has less raw dynamic nuance. Acoustic instruments require careful, delicate techniques achieved through years of classical training, where almost each dB has its own distinct character. Electric instrument's dynamics often rely on pedals rather than skillful, organic control(this is because of lack of rigid classical techniques employed though) Distortion (if used) compresses dynamics, thus affects expressiveness and dynamics directly, e.g. how vibrato works.
Contemporary classical is pretty much dead. Barely anyone cares about classical music today, those who do, want to emulate authentic styles of old masters, rather than explore something new. Attention span declined, and so did creativity among musicians/composers.

>>128200620
It has less raw dynamic nuance. Acoustic instruments require careful, delicate techniques achieved through years of classical training, where almost each dB has its own distinct character. Electric instrument's dynamics often rely on pedals rather than skillful, organic control(this is because of lack of rigid classical techniques employed though) Distortion (if used) compresses dynamics, thus affectinh expressiveness and dynamics directly, e.g. how vibrato works.
Contemporary classical is pretty much dead. Barely anyone cares about classical music today, those who do, want to emulate authentic styles of old masters, rather than explore something new. Attention span among the general public has declined, and so did creativity among musicians/composers.

>>128201089
You are very right about the attention span

>>128201330
Attention span decline is partly why classical music is fading into irrelevancy. So new instruments, like the electric guitar, will likely never reach their full potential and will remain a pop thing. I believe they do have unique potential, despite lacking those raw acoustic nuances. Good luck finding a contemporary Bach or Beethoven who will write for and play those instruments at their maximum expressive capacity though.

>>128193068 (OP)
rundown on julius eastman, song recs?

>>128200307
BARTLET
Do you know what they're playing?

CHARLIE
I'm sorry, sir?

BARTLET
The Reykjavik Symphony. Do we know what they're playing and for how long
they're playing it?

CHARLIE
[looking at program] It says here 'an evening of modern music.'

BARTLET
Turn the car around.

CHARLIE
[reading] 'The orchestra features 90 pieces, including anvils and castanets.'

BARTLET
Turn the car around.

CHARLIE
Modern music is cool.

BARTLET
Modern music sucks. Anything written after 1860 sucks.

CHARLIE
[reading] 'Samuel Barber, Symphony No. 2.'

BARTLET
Sucks.

CHARLIE
[reading] 'Stravinsky, Variations on a Theme.'

BARTLET
Sucks.

CHARLIE
[reading] 'Schoenberg, Enlightened Night for String Orchestra.'

BARTLET
Totally blows.

CHARLIE
[reading] 'After intermission, they'll be performing the world premiere of
a piece...'

BARTLET
Played on teapots and gefilte fish.

CHARLIE
[reading] '...by a new Icelandic composer.' They told me he got so nervous
when he heard you
were coming that he was rewriting the piece until 6 o'clock.

BARTLET
If he wants more time, I'd be happy to take a rain check.

CHARLIE
I thought you liked classical music.

BARTLET
This is not classical music. It is not classical music if the guy finished
writing it this
afternoon.

--- "Galileo," S2E09 of The West Wing

>>128197053
He's no Beethoven, guy. lol.

>>128200267
Is that Debussy staring him down?

>>128203500
If we look just at peak within their respective forms (aka, Chopin for the solo piano + his cello sonata), it's very close. When you take versatility into account, yeah, obviously Beethoven clears, but just peaks? It's closer than you think. Chopin reached heights with the piano very few ever did.

>>128203500
And Beethoven is no Chopin either, guy.

>saves /classical/
https://youtu.be/HW0D8_kHIng

>>128203542
>"Mozart is no Salieri"
I guess.

Liszt and Chopin hit the same peaks as any other great composer. They just lack the versatility.

>>128198942
>I draw most of my enjoyment from the structure of the work itself - how "tuneful" it is doesn't matter as much to me,
The problem is, for structure to make sense, one must connect the dots, and if you don't even see a dot, how can you connect it with something else? Maybe I just have to keep listening and tunes will start to click (although he's often referred to as tuneless Rachmaninoff, which raises my doubts).
>when it contains some of his most inspired melodies
I think his late works are just as good melodically, if not better. Not immediatelly accessible but still memorable.
>his op. 65
I'll check that out, thanks.

>>128203573
Yeah, because no one knows Salieri's music, everybody knows Mozart's, Beethoven's and Chopin's. Not the parallel you should've drawn.

>>128203626
>everybody knows Mozart's, Beethoven's and Chopin's
If that was true he'd be even more overrated. But it's not.

>>128203650
Not sure who you're referring to, but neither of them are overrated.

>>128197757
>STILL no Scriabin
God, absolutely fuck this retarded faggot jew. He's deaf as a post.

>>128204575
We love and respect that faggot jew here actually. This is Hurwitzian general and we forgive him for excluding our lord and saviour Scriabin once again.

>>128196799
>>128203669
it's not true that "everybody" knows chopin. piano nerds have learned the mental gymnastics to brainwash themselves into liking him but outside of pretentious classical dweebs no one even knows that he exists but he's overrated by dweebs.

>>128205175
Nah, it is true. Some of the most famous classical tunes ever written are by Chopin. Out of top 10, at least 2 are probably by Chopin, the funeral march and nocturne 9/2. And every classical connoisseur has Chopin as well as Beethoven somewhere among their favorites. You can't say you're a classical connoisseur if you don't like these two.

>>128200445
Could you give some examples? I'd love to hear this.

The "this is the greatest thing ever concieved by human mind when I'm listening to it" piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC4i_toAcX4&list=OLAK5uy_mj2A15CT1jKmybANFsu5-7KtPdg8wVSMU&index=1

The "this is the greatest thing ever conceived by human mind when I'm listening to it" piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC4i_toAcX4&list=OLAK5uy_mj2A15CT1jKmybANFsu5-7KtPdg8wVSMU&index=1

>>128205175
Can guarantee that if I asked every single person I know if they know who Chopin is, the majority will have at least heard his name and remember it, and none of them are "pretentious classical dweebs". Everybody who isn't a nigger or retard knows him.
>>128205319
There's a difference between having someone as your favorite and liking them. I like Chopin and believe it's bad judgment if one actively dislikes any of the great composers. That said, while I think Chopin wrote quite a few undisputed masterpieces, he's not even in my top 5 piano composers of all time, let alone top 10 overall.

Mozart vs Bach

No, not in terms of who is a better composer, who would win in a fight?

>>128205581
Obviously Bach. Dude went to jail for fighting someone. Mozart looks like a biter, he's weak and small.

>>128205600
Mozart is a catboy so he might have a secretly high power level + high agility

Mozart

https://youtu.be/RD1dSP4vhP8

huh, the false ending actually feels like a false ending here. There's a solid pause that often takes like a second in most other recordings I've heard. Lovely recording overall, if only stereo recording was invented at this time.

Honestly, I've never gotten how it took so long for someone to realize you can etch sound on a cylinder or disk, it seems so simple on paper that it's crazy how long it took for that to start being a thing. Imagine if someone came up with that idea 200 years earlier. We might have even heard Mozart himself perform, and then we wouldn't need to suffer the HIP.

>>128205600
He went to jail for leaving his job, he was only reprimanded for fighting a student

>>128205319
>funeral march
lmao it's used in a parody type of way like for a quick gag in a cartoon. i don't know anyone who listens to it unironically.

>>128205790
Terrible bait made me reply 1/10.

Does anyone know how to download stuff from Naxos?

>>128205908
Have you tried rutracker, piratebay, soulseek?

Thoughts on Sir Colin Davis?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcg_w9MSCoo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7vMfnB1y7I

>>128206291
That's my go-to cycle, I haven't listened to other cycles, but a few individual other recordings. I'll dig into other cycles once I'm in Mozart mood, whenever that may be.

>>128203614
>one must connect the dots, and if you don't even see a dot, how can you connect it with something else?
I'm not a music theorist, but the way it works for me is to take focus away from any explicit melody and focus on motif. His densest work is probably Night Wind, which at first sounds like endless note spinning but is actually almost entirely built out of a handful of motifs (something which Rach also did in his sonatas). Obviously medtner isn't the only one who did this, so I would understand favoring other composers over him, but when he clicked for me I found it very rewarding. Also, have you listened to Sonata Reminiscenza and Tragica? Those are among his most inspired works and the ones that just stuck with me immediately.
Kissin for Reminiscenza
https://youtu.be/NZMT7nmfi5M?si=QOt-w84KO84gzhFv
Tozer for Tragica
https://youtu.be/vxsaVfw83vQ?si=V6IXLFljePGFjGHI
>I think his late works are just as good melodically, if not better. Not immediatelly accessible but still memorable.
Oh absolutely, I don't think you can say he declined somehow. What I meant is that his improvement came mostly from the structure rather than his melodic writing becoming more inspired. E.g. see the difference between the first ballade's quasi-sonata form and the 4th's theme and variations superimposed on a sonata form, (or the other way around, if you'd like) with some nocturnal and counterpunctual writing sprinkled in. It wouldn't be nearly as interesting if he'd just taken the main themes and used the same form of the previous 3 ballades.
> I'll check that out, thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzzCpL_i7K8
Hamelin is p good for alkan, i think

>>128200445
Well post some examples then kid

>>128201676
>Good luck finding a contemporary Bach or Beethoven who will write for and play those instruments at their maximum expressive capacity though.

Bach sounds like it was written for MIDI

>>128206832
Bach sounds like it was written by God.

>>128206976
That's a little nondescript, no? I can say the same thing about literally any great composer. Just feels like you are trying to bait another theological flamewar to happen, which is a dick move if that's your intention.

Bach sounds like it was prophesying Wagner. As the Master said, “That made me what I am. My unending melody is predestined in it.”

>>128206976
God writes repetitive sounding cello music?

>>128206291
>Thoughts on Sir Colin Davis?
Solid. Occasionally capable of greatness, as well as some duds.

Holy fuck.
I haven't even finished the first "movement", and this is already the best interpretation of Liszt sonata in B minor I've ever heard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDzZeg7rXIs

Probably the greatest of any music ever recorded or interpreted, so clean and expressive at the same time, unbelievably insane voicing, perfect rubato, I'm surprised. Just listen. It's piano roll. It's by Liszt's favorite pupil apparently, Friedheim. Why did no one tell me of this

Meistersinger is the opera Bach wished he wrote.

>>128207045
Wagnersister, I need your help with something, what is the best video performance of Meistersinger Von Nurnberg be it a movie or otherwise?

>>128207054
:O -> >:(

>>128207069
>piano roll
Anon, I...

>Violin
Bach Sonatas and Partitas
Paganini Caprices
Ysaye Sonatas
>Cello
Bach Suites
...
...

>>128207078
>Anon, I...
Listen first, reply after. Nothing of this sort has ever been recorded.

>>128207069
A disappointing level of hiss

>>128207098
>piano roll
>hiss
wat

>>128207069
Never thought it was great, starts promising and then it just constantly repeats the same 3 themes over and over and it just gets sickening after a while. Understand why Brahms fell asleep during it

>>128207106
The post isn't about the music, which is an unquestionable masterpiece, but the performance.

>>128207116
>which is an unquestionable masterpiece,
Meh, I only really like Liszt's symphonic poems

>>128207103
Hiss -there’s a disappointing amount Of it

>>128203581
They’re too emotional so certain autistic posters here can’t relate to them

>>128207207
hey that's my line!

>>128207126
>getting filtered by THIS of all things
https://youtu.be/N0snKyDTfM4?si=B7pBOFptdt_Fy7-t&t=120

>>128207238
3:25, I want to listen to that loud climax over and over, with that gigantic build, Zimerman's precise bombast is so fitting here.

>>128207191
can't hear it over my tinnitus :(

>>128207191
>>128207360
There is no hiss.

>>128207207
all music is equally as emotional, only some make it more obvious for retards to pick up on it

>>128207397
>all music is equally as emotional
Laughably retarded.
>only some make it more obvious
It's called expressiveness, superior technique by superior musical minds, you wouldn't get it. You haven't even listened to Hofmann LOL.

10/10

>>128207397
You know what the most emotional music is? All of it

>>128207414
emotion is not in music, it is in us. and music is not about emotion, it's about music.[
>superior technique by superior musical minds
by whiny crybabies for whiny crybabies, got it

>>128207646
the literal actual point of classical music, yes

>>128207691
>hasn't listened to Hofmann, Rachmainoff recordings
>hasn't listened to Caballe, Callas recordings
Opinion disregarded, post hidden. Sorry, but you JUST don't understand classical music, okay, you just don't, I'm sorry!!!

/classical/ should be altar of 19th century bel canto worship, instead we are witnessing decadence and degeneracy right in front of our eyes. sad!

I envy peasants who don't understand real art, they foolishly endulge in terrible "interpretations", never reflecting on what they are missing. Can you even call yourself a "classical music listener"? No! No you can't!

>>128208132
>hasn't listened to Hofmann, Rachmainoff recordings
>hasn't listened to Caballe, Callas recordings
and thank GOD for that holy shit

>>128208168
>admits being a pleb
>insists on his ignorance
LOL!! Won't you look at it!!!

now playing

start of Rachmaninoff: Suite No. 1 for 2 Pianos, Op. 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd-RNGJY4YM&list=OLAK5uy_krPKZnHJOk2FkJGb1wruls9u_7rc-i4Bw&index=2

start of Rachmaninoff: Suite No. 2 for 2 Pianos, Op. 17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dienyN1IHO8&list=OLAK5uy_krPKZnHJOk2FkJGb1wruls9u_7rc-i4Bw&index=6

start of Rachmaninoff: Etudes-tableaux, Op. 33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDN4fF_L_zQ&list=OLAK5uy_krPKZnHJOk2FkJGb1wruls9u_7rc-i4Bw&index=10

start of Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances, Op. 45 - Two pianos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCP2ceoA6qc&list=OLAK5uy_krPKZnHJOk2FkJGb1wruls9u_7rc-i4Bw&index=18

Rachmaninoff: Russian Rhapsody for Two Pianos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW-4maKbIf0&list=OLAK5uy_krPKZnHJOk2FkJGb1wruls9u_7rc-i4Bw&index=21

Rachmaninoff: Variations On A Theme Of Corelli, Op. 42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0hzFohA_cM&list=OLAK5uy_krPKZnHJOk2FkJGb1wruls9u_7rc-i4Bw&index=21

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_krPKZnHJOk2FkJGb1wruls9u_7rc-i4Bw

Also added a recording by Trifonov+Babayan which contains the Suites and Symphonic Dances for Two Piano as well, plus an interesting arrangement of the adagio from the second symphony for two pianos.

>>128205319
So you think if everyone has heard a piece by them it puts them among Beethoven and Mozart in terms of quality.
Like Fucik, and Shostakovich whomever wrote The Sailors Hornpipe or Martin? You can't tell me any living western person hasn't heard at least one song by Max Martin.

>>128205319
>>128205800
Not only is he's right, but even the version people know isn't the whole and the bit there is has notes changed around. So it's just a MOTIF that people ALMOST know.

>>128207646
Yes. Very much so.

>>128198663
Medtner's 3rd piano concerto and piano quintet are my favorites in the genre.

I have a feeling this guy sniffs buttholes:
>>128208575
>>128208602

Mahler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dnxVp1j5BI

>>128208807
I don't even want to know what you're sniffing, if that's what you assume of everyone who's smarter than you.

Haydn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwNrEbduIZo&list=OLAK5uy_kqC1lu3MY4KRoHL808H2DvAwQdfk8T-SA&index=15

>>128208851
>who's smarter than you.
Oh look, a smarty pants butthole sniffer!

>>128208976
Maybe someday you'll learn that not everyone who's smarter than you sniffs buttholes. But until you do, I know what you mean when you say that.

>>128209136
Smarty pants butthole sniffer has more to say?! We're so lucky!

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOLotDFiosg

>>128209400
Don't shill your Only Fans here my guy

Bumpmaninoff

https://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue/comments/2kirqq/tomt_name_of_song_thats_typically_played_in/
they didn't know chopin but they knew it was used in a mocking way in cartoons

The final movement of Brahms' first symphony has some great moments and ideas but it is a bit of a mess structurally and is rather overlong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvroFzmfLds&list=OLAK5uy_kZGgcmUcF2vbcWYOtU8mdn7t9uVr8oncw&index=4

now playing

start of Chopin: 12 Etudes, Op. 10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ATJvN0FZxw&list=OLAK5uy_ljJtkvMIK53rA0f0RbueHwIw4AlihHpic&index=2

start of Chopin: 12 Etudes, Op. 25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igcg5uA2xk4&list=OLAK5uy_ljJtkvMIK53rA0f0RbueHwIw4AlihHpic&index=14

start of Schumann: Symphonic Studies, Op. 13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Q3JP_YlJw&list=OLAK5uy_ljJtkvMIK53rA0f0RbueHwIw4AlihHpic&index=25

start of Chopin: 3 Nouvelles Etudes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOyQPvPgHA&list=OLAK5uy_ljJtkvMIK53rA0f0RbueHwIw4AlihHpic&index=44

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ljJtkvMIK53rA0f0RbueHwIw4AlihHpic

Nice combination of pieces. One can never have enough recordings of Chopin's masterpieces, and Schumann's solo piano works are a welcome addition to any performance.

Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbOLVOyVGyk

Holloway's Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNoQoQOt0cM&list=OLAK5uy_kCKAVAcKvKkDo8UMxSXU83XTWN9fBiBxQ&index=15

for the HIPsters

random thought: you pair Sinopoli's Bruckner 3rd, 4th, and 5th, with Chailly's 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th, and you've got a damn near perfect cycle.

Chailly's 4th is really good too but I'd probably give Sinopoli's the edge. I bring it up because Sinopoli's late Bruckner is shockingly mediocre, whereas Chailly's weakness is his 3rd and 5th.

anyone else love classical music but have almost zero frame of reference for the instruments? when I listen to a symphony or concerto, most of the time I have no idea what instrument is being played to cause the sound I'm hearing.

>>128213433
sometimes i find hard to guess if it's a violin or a viola

>>128207646
as opposed to what? randomly smashing one's head against a piano?

It's time

here's the opening prelude + some other samples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhd9i1bQTds&list=OLAK5uy_n4NWjgpNX1J7BnOKgSB7kySQLRAHoHQz0&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbPJolMElQM&list=OLAK5uy_n4NWjgpNX1J7BnOKgSB7kySQLRAHoHQz0&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9GSZ4kih6I&list=OLAK5uy_n4NWjgpNX1J7BnOKgSB7kySQLRAHoHQz0&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8PBG_QZnjg&list=OLAK5uy_n4NWjgpNX1J7BnOKgSB7kySQLRAHoHQz0&index=3

>>128210838
Scriabump

The 12 Greatest Monophonicists of All Time

Anonymous Chant Guys
Hildegard von Bingen
Monteverdi
Schütz
J.S. Bach
Handel
Bruckner
Enescu
Orff
Kodály
Hindemith
Pärt

https://youtu.be/ZrHDKpQqa9A?si=P2PeWsysKadXX1SM

>>128207074
The Greindl Bayreuth footage of most of act 3. For a complete performance, probably the one with Weikl or the Hamburg Opera film. I know there's a stack more opera footage locked away in archives that we will never see a proper release of.

>be at party
>"oh yeah I'm a huge fan of [composer]"
>hour or so later
>somebody starts playing a bit of classical
>"oh this is great, who is it?"
>"anon, it's [composer]"
my nightmare

>>128215787
lol
Can happen. Nothing to be embarrassed of though

>>128215787
>hey anon, I heard you're a big fan of J.S.Bach. play every keyboard piece he wrote from memory or you're a fucking pseud.

>>128215507
buy an ad and kill yourself.

>big fan of J.S.Bach.
First thing that comes to mind is sweaty, stinky, greasy, fat and arrogant spastic who values words and concepts above sensory pleasure of music: pseud

>>128216291
kek

>>128216380
typical that the malcontent posters don't understand humor

>>128216380
I'm not fat and spastic though.

>>128216405
I understood the humor, you didn't.
>>128216436
So you're arrogant? Gotcha.

>>128216545
in addition to being sweaty, stinky, and greasy.

>>128216545
The anon was riffing and you pulled something from their post just to say something hateful and useless.

now playing, feeling like a lieder night

start of Schumann: Liederkreis, Op. 39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF8FSHbAyro&list=OLAK5uy_kI5Ybhx5LDv_PDzzqrjJ3Sa4oRriY-YvI&index=2

start of Berg: Sieben frühe Lieder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWGLZRhGDQA&list=OLAK5uy_kI5Ybhx5LDv_PDzzqrjJ3Sa4oRriY-YvI&index=14

start of Schumann: Frauenliebe und -leben Op. 42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8qeUT-xDIY&list=OLAK5uy_kI5Ybhx5LDv_PDzzqrjJ3Sa4oRriY-YvI&index=20

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kI5Ybhx5LDv_PDzzqrjJ3Sa4oRriY-YvI

>Ms. Röschmann s seriousness is only a veil attractively covering and accentuating an underlying sensuality. Her silvery soprano, clear and ethereally pretty on top, has a startling quality of voluptuousness, going down to rich, warm, earthy low notes that sometimes erupted from a vocal line with disproportionate (you might say unladylike) power, --The New York Times

>I don t know that I ve passed a more laceratingly beautiful half-hour in the concert hall. Before the interval they had been gripping enough with their feeling intelligence and Röschmannn s prodigious resources (an operatic power just sufficiently reined in) in Schumann s Liederkreis, Op 39, and Berg s Sieben frühe Lieder ... one was drawn into a magical, truthful drama, its unfolding as concise as it is passionate ... Röschmann glowed in the darkness. Touchingly she cadenced on Du meine Welt! ( You, my world! ), and it fell to Uchida in that extraordinary piano postlude (a virtual bursting into speech) to draw the work s torrent of emotions to a closing calm: the restored hope embodied in the last-minute return of the opening bars. --The Sunday Times, Paul Driver, 10 May 2015

jeez these writers need to calm down

Favorite recording(s) of Schumann's Sonata No. 2 in G minor?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs_OobgaMrw

>>128215507
This is getting ridiculous now.

Maazel does a spectacular Bruckner 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP_KuApbnlQ&list=OLAK5uy_kr5uf3IVAouJC5B2ATqXixMby2v4hPq8o&index=22

>>128217138
Why tho. Can't wait for greatest formalists

It's over. I'll see you guys in the next life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yZBAIkHiyg

>>128217543
no don't do it :(

Damn Liszt for writing such an addictive piece.

>>128217637
I'm gonna guess... Mephisto Waltz?

>>128217672
Sonata in B minor of course.

>>128215787
It shouldn't be that hard to intuit the identity of the composer.

One thing that bugs me about listening to Liszt is he has a lot of scattered, even singular piano pieces. Let's look at Beethoven. You get a set with the piano sonatas then you grab the bagatelles at some point and if you really want, the variations, bam, easy. Chopin, okay, he's got some singular pieces outside the Etudes, Mazurkas, Nocturnes, Waltzes, Sonatas, but fortunately you will end up getting the Barcarolle and Berceuse and Fantasie-Impromptu added onto some set at some point, probably with the sonatas or scherzi/ballades.

But Liszt? You could get stuck in the world of his Harmonies, Annees, Hungarian, Transcendental Etudes, and Sonata without ever coming across his Schubert song transcriptions, Lieberstraums, Consolations, Mephisto Waltz, Valse Impromptu, Ballade, 3 Etudes de Concert, and his longer stuff like Reminiscences de Norma and Réminiscences de Don Juan, and there's no guarantee that even if you explore a handful of Liszt recital or mixed program recordings, you'll even get all of the good ones!

Now, fortunately the Bolet Liszt box set exists, but you get my point.

>>128217740
>fortunately the Bolet Liszt box set exists
So does Leslie Howard's!
But yeah, finding Liszt pieces to listen to was much harder than Beethoven, Chopin. Even Schumann.

damn Berlioz really does not have anything going for him except those two movements from Symphonie Fantastique huh

>>128218068
his claim to fame rests entirely on his historical role of bridging the gap between classical and romantic orchestral music. Aside from that Berlioz was quite a mediocre composer.

>>128218068
If you don't care for vocal works, yes.

Was there a single composer alive that Brahms didn't hate? Bad comments about Wolf, Bruckner, Liszt, Wagner, Strauss, Mahler, even Dvorak when he went his own path.

>>128213433
sometimes I find hard to guess if it's a bassoon or a buffoon

>>128218116
Schoenberg and Reger.

>>128218116
Johann Strauss

>>128218123
I find it difficult to believe he liked composers as ardently progressive as Schoenberg and Reger. Were they more conservative in their youth?

>>128218116
Schumann (Clara)

>>128218132
Schoenberg and Reger were hardcore Brahmsians in their youth.

>>128218116
Schumann and Dvorak. He liked Wagner too, and even called himself Wagnerian or whatever.

Who is /classical/'s favorite composer among the big three?

>>128218186
Chopin

>>128218186
Sibelius

>>128218186
Haydn

>>128218186
>big three
What big three?

>>128218186
Beethoven. Mozart had a lot of potential but he died too young and Bach was autistic.

>>128218134
I was thinking from the perspective of the late romantic period. I know Brahms liked many early romantic composers.

>>128218138
So the same deal with Dvorak, as soon as they start expanding their style he would have a problem.

>>128218155
He later changed his mind about Dvorak.

>>128218201
>Bach was autistic
I like how this has nothing to do with the actual music, but you projecting some retarded pathology onto him.

>>128218211
Yeah Brahms was a pretty conservative guy. He was kinda like Bach in that he tried to perfect the current style instead of experimenting.

Bach being a genius equivalent of Beethoven is the biggest meme of classical ever. The dude just mastered counterpoint with trillions of exercises, it's not that deep. He didn't invent much or push boundried, he learned everything from other baroque composers and surpassed them due to huge effort. A great artist, but not a genius.
Beethoven's innovations are far more impressive. Romantics were the real innovators and geniuses.

>Könnet ihr denn nicht eine Stunde mit mir wachen?
>Wachet, und betet, daß ihr nicht in Anfechtung fallet.
>Der Geist ist willig, aber das Fleisch ist schwach.
Errrmmmm BARS?
https://youtu.be/xpUYe5-EPSM?si=XQa-u05d2W4oLTd-&t=3897

>>128218237
>hey guys, watch me derive hours of polyphonic music from this random four-bar theme.

said no non-autistic person ever.

>>128218274
You're just continuing to prove me right. Just pathologizing bullshit.

>>128218274
>>128218288
Virtually every composer was autistic.

>>128218297
*every great composer*

ftfy.

>>128218239
That seems like a pretty shoddy comparison. Brahms was a formal trailblazer that was at once ideologically opposed to anything 'new' in a way that he disagreed with, meanwhile Bach really did perfect Baroque forms and afaik wasn't opposed to the developing classical style although he preferred his old fashioned style.

>>128218297
Why do you people incessantly pathologize everyone and everything? You're no different from the idiots who talk about "trauma" and therapy all the time.

cool down and listen to matthew locke

https://youtu.be/GDLY64EgzAQ?si=yER-UDqaoHNfRx2J

>>128218419
silence, normgroid.

>>128218105
I actually ragequit his Damnation of Faust because I was so annoyed by the French singing lol

>>128218432
Ironically, what I described is done almost exclusively by normies. Well done.

>>128218068
romeo and juliette is his masterpiece

>>128218432
>>128218450
they're called Normalfags, stop zoomerizing everything

>>128218459
they're called normalniggers actually

>>128218463
this is acceptable

>>128218419
>Why do you people incessantly pathologize everyone and everything?
Because we like psychology and facts.

fantastic recording

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEGYEPKAJJA&list=OLAK5uy_kB47sUl9tODKq0JyWH65nCFFMAmXdpCZs&index=14

>>128218770
>Réceaurding fantâstiqueueue
your post if you were french lol

>>128218846
hehe

>>128218155
>He liked Wagner too, and even called himself Wagnerian or whatever.
I'm pretty sure he was being ironic.

>>128215507
Bach’s best monophony?

>>128218186
Reich

Brahms is heavily underrated by this general

>>128218288
You got served my dude

>>128219310
The Brahms fog has clouded your judgement.

you DO have the entirety of Bach's first cello suite, BWV 1007 committed to memory, right, anon? anon???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYZzFoKmT3w

>>128219517
The gay fog has clouded yours

>>128219536
Cello suites aren't even that good compared to his other suites for other instruments. Violin suites mog

>>128219546
>gay fog
me me me
Young Brahms is sexo ngl. Solid 9/10

>>128219600
Gays always have low standards.

>>128219675
>>128219675
>>128219675

NEW THREAD

>>128219600
>>128219648

>>128219648
Well, thats what mental illness does to a man

>>128219648
>Gays always have low standards
Why? Isn't he handsome?

>>128219536
actually yes, although on bass not cello

sexo

>>128219688
Were Tchaikovsky, Szymanowski and Britten mentally ill

Scriabin
Breakfast

>>128218186
Bach followed by Scriabin then Handel

New to classical. Is it normal to cry at 1st movement moonlight sonata or am I just a fag?