Thread 28483876

>Camaro dead
>Nissan Z nonexistent
>Ford set up with an easy slam dunk for anyone wanting a pony car
>instead jack Mustang prices up to european luxury levels
>the mustang is now selling less than it ever did before in its history
how fucking dumb are these retards at ford hq?

>>28483876 (OP)
They jacked prices up and lowered quality.
They are cutting more corners every year.
It will only get worse, because they can get away with it with zero competition.

Why does nobody here understand basic economics? Nobody wants pony cars hence why the Mustang and Camaro both sell like shit. You can/could still get cheap Mustangs and Camaros and those still don't sell. You can't expect a manufacturer to bleed money just to please a small handful of "enthusiasts".

TAKE ME DOWN TO IPAD CITY

>tfw would've probably bought a Dark Horse if it were under 50k
>instead copped an Elantra N and it's fucking based
retards with MBAs doing MBA things

>>28483891
That’s good. We need less retard npcs driving a high power v8

>>28483891
Car enthusiasts tend to lean right, yet expect to be subsidised under the guise of being a loss leader for the company.

>>28483890
It also looks worse in my opinion than the prior generation
>>28483891
They sold better when they were cheaper despite the fact that they had more competition. I know you're probably some teenager trying to troll, but stop acting like a faggot for attention

>>28483926
trvth

>>28483899
Imagine choosing a Hyundai over a mustang

>>28484043
>valved exhaust
>adjustable dampers
>adjustable suspension
>adjustable steering
>0-60 in 4.8 sec
>30+ mph highway
>muh 10 yr warranty
>literally half the price of a dark horse premium
it's the perfect do-everything daily driver sports sedan and it's cheap enough to buy with cash
why the fuck would i spend m3 or corvette money on a mustang

>Yeah why dont they just sell mustangs for $5000 a piece, they'd sell millions
Because sales aren't the only thing that determines the company's bottom line retard, it's the profit margin. Ford isn't a charity.
There's no fucking room for "greed" or whatever low IQs think goes on at corporations.
V8s produce a lot of emissions, those emissions cost a lot of money.

>>28484033
>They sold better
So what if they sold better? Ford could sell a billion mustangs, but if it sold each one for $1 and it took $1B + $1 to make them, then it's a loss.
Do you think the sales to profit margin calculation hasn't been done already? Do you think a $35k mustang GT, costing the same amount as a camry, would create profit and offset emissions costs?

>>28484061
>fag wheel drive
>fagomatic too probably
>b-b-but it's as quick as a 25 year old Mustang!!@!
Dear god this cope is astounding.

>>28484043
Not hard when.you look at that hideous dash and "cluster". It's just another fucking screen.

Isn't the Dark Horse the homologation model? Ford can price it however the fuck they want because supposedly it's competing against the Corvette Z06 and (maybe) 911 GT3.

>>28483876 (OP)
gen Z doesn't drink or have sex and they don't want to work.
a v8 is overwhelming to them

>>28484072
>screen mustang bad
>screen gookshit gud
Are you by chance a full on retard Anon?

>>28483891
Nobody wants them because the interior is rental grade, the platform dates to 2005 and the ride is rough as a result. If they made a NEW roadster on a NEW platform, it would sell. They are lazy.

>>28484084
You realize that would make it cost even more right?

>>28484084
>the platform dates to 2005
Nigger what
The S550 is from ~2011 and the S650 is a evolution of that
You want warming-over a sports car, look at Nissan for the travesty that is the new Z

>>28483876 (OP)
basic economics anon
a firm with a monopoly will jack up prices and sell less units at a higher profit margin

>>28484084
Newest Mustang interior is indeed worse and noticeably cheaper than older gen.

The plastics look and feel crap, they literally wove plastic together into AliExpress tier fake carbon fiber. Looks like those plastic lanyards you made as a kid. They got rid of the toggle switches and use cheap flat buttons now. You can't even change A/C without multiple screen-touch steps.

>muh prices
bro how are we half way through 2025 and people still don't know how inflation works. the msrp of a base my15 gt is 1:1 with the msrp of a base my25 gt.

>>28483876 (OP)
do you ever see these hitting current SN95 levels of cheap in the future?

>>28484237
>but muh wages didnt increase from 2015 to 2025
Yeah probably cause theyre brown and work a minimum wage job

>>28484094
The American automaker[12][13] Ford Motor Company introduced the fifth generation of the Mustang as a concept vehicle at the North American International Auto Show in 2003.[14][15] Designed by Sid Ramnarace,[16] production of the fifth-generation Mustang began in September 2004 at the facility in Flat Rock, Michigan.

They are both equally shitty and warmed over.
Both companies would do well to invest in a next gen all aluminum dohc twin turbo six cylinder for the future of their performance lineup

if you want to sell pony cars make the interior nice - interesting fabrics - interesting patterns - COLORS - bright colors! It's a pony car - not a funeral. No "piano black" shit plastic please.

>>28483876 (OP)
>>28484233
Yeah this, the newest mustang looks, feels, and definitely is designed the worst (at least on the inside) of any mustang in recent memory, but costs more, too. That's a recipe for low sales. I was considering getting one and now I've gotta wait an entire car generation to hope the next gen is better or just buy a 2013 one.

>>28484271
I genuinely don't believe anything was left over from the S197 (04-14 mustang) on the S550, chassis-wise. They recycled the V6 option for a few years after 2015 before (thankfully) dropping it. Even the Coyote engine got a generational refresh.
>Both companies would do well to invest in a next gen all aluminum dohc twin turbo six cylinder for the future of their performance lineup
Or you just use a fucking V8 that works. Honestly, Ford took a risk with the Coyote and they're lucky it paid off.

>>28484325
most people don't need or want a v8 and all the gas it consumes - especially with no hybridization at all
modernize the car or it will die out

>>28483891
>Make your iconic sports car hideously ugly and impossible to see out of (Camaro), comically overpriced with an interior worse than a powerwheels (mustang), and gay (Challenger)
>Um AKLSHULLY guyse it's just like basic economics, you would know that if you were smart like me!

>>28484061
You paid an extra $10K over a base model Elantra to have a daily that rattles more and has an unusable rear seat pass-through. At least it retains good visibility so you can see all the nice cars flying by you on track days.
Just kidding, I actually do have a ton of respect for these. It is unfortunately just too compromised as a comfortable daily for me though.

>>28484555
its really annoying they won't give you a low pressure 2.5t with 220-230 hp
OR hybridize or otherwise get the 2.5 NA to be more powerful (and less rough plz)
I bet the 2.5T is less rough than the 2.5 NA somehow but that's just a guess

I really like comfy cars but with decent engines, I have no desire for sport seats or stiff rides - it would be nice if you could get a limited or locking rear diff on other Kia/Hyundais though
I mean, if they have it, they can put it in other things
I feel like you do get an e-lsd but only with the Genesis G80 V6

>>28484555
>just too compromised as a comfortable daily for me though.
........So you got an Elantra?

>>28484237
Probably cause people don't make any more money than they did in 2015. It makes sense to complain about price, even accounting for inflation, if your salary is still the same

>>28484582
You couldn't went to school and gotten a PhD in 10 years. Not making more money is a you problem.

>>28484578
He got an Elantra N, the most uncomfortable car I've ever driven.

>>28484575
That's exactly it. They need to maintain reasons for people to buy Genesis. Can't make the Elantra N too nice. It's great at what it does, which is making CTR drivers wonder why they spent so much.
>>28484578
I didn't. Where are you getting that?

>>28484555
>has an unusable rear seat pass-through
The bar is removable

t. Knower

>>28484339
Not everyone lives in CA with $5 a gallon premium bro

I see OPs point: $66k for a GT premium with performance pack and upgraded shocks is a bit steep. And its too easy to make it a $70,000 vehicle which is right where BMWs and AMGs are at. Thats not the spirit of what a Mustang has been for decades.

>>28484598
>That's exactly it. They need to maintain reasons for people to buy Genesis.
Genesis is RWD and a different price point. I think there's a comfortable separation. And Genesis is a 300hp version of the 2.5T. Surely they could make a lower powered one for normie applications. Especially when the 2.5. NA has been endlessly criticized as slow and rough in the media for years.

I mean if you want a nice pony car why not a G70 v6?

>>28484271
The S197 had a solid rear axle. The S550 has IRS. They share absolutely nothing.

>>28483891
Frankly having a low selling sports car is worth it for brand heritage alone. But I really doubt they lost money on the Camaro. It was more some MBA didn’t understand sports car and wanted a green image

>>28484061
Cool you got all that going for you bro, hope you get those 5 stars on ubereats

>>28484604
Gas is $8.50/gal here and people still drive V8s and such. It just filters out losers.

>>28485436
i make 6 figures on 40 hours a week with a pension lil bro but go off

>>28484072
>>28484082
God damn I hate how ugly some of these modern cars are inside. What’s wrong with a little screen inlaid into the system instead of poking out like some retard slapped some glue on a Samsung tablet and chucked it in there.

Yeah but Ford makes junk and I don't want to spend my money on crap.

>>28484602
Huh, weird that no journos ever mention that.
>>28484815
>I mean if you want a nice pony car why not a G70 v6?
I guess it's because I don't want a hyundai, when it comes down to it.

>>28483891
Nobody wants an UGLY, EXPENSIVE, CRAPPY pony car. You might be able to get away with selling UGLY, EXPENSIVE, CRAPPY cars to truckolds and SUV karens who don't know any better, but pony cars are bought by car enthusiasts who actually know what to look for and what creates value in a product.
If looks like shit and the build quality feels like a rental out of the factory, the price needs to reflect that.
If its as expensive as a BMW, the build quality and styling of the car need to be competitive with existing sport/luxury models.
You can't have your cake and eat it.

>>28485544
It's not too bad either. Just some plastic retaining buttons and 4x bolt and nuts that hold the brace.

>>28483876 (OP)
Zombie company propped up by trugg sales

>>28485539
I think the designers make the interior first and then get forced to add in features, rather than designing everything as integrated as possible.

They should drug test their staff, I think the weed vape is impairing their cognition significantly.

>>28484339
Yes they do. People buy the Mustang for a taste of American peak culture. Here in Australia they cant give the Ecoboost Mustangs away while the V8s have a waiting list. This is why the Ipad dash is a mistake people buy the Mustang for round retro guages and physical switches.

>>28484535
interiors are just how yuropoors cope with making shit cars that leak all their fluids on the ground within 2 years of ownership.

>>28483891
have you never been on a road? every second or third car is a mustang.
are you not american?

>>28484319
It's the "last mustang" and if they do, they're never going back to physical gauges and the styling will only get worse. Better off getting a mach 1 now before the prices appreciate too high

>>28483891
S550 sold fine. Your b8 is so fucking bad, get out.

>>28483959
Car enthusiasts expect a car company to act like they like cars. Also profit ain't everything.

>>28483926
Nah we need more. Makes it more normal, people understand it more with more exposure.

>>28484064
I stg car companies suck ass at lobbying

Why are there so many anti car shills on this board? This isn't organic trolling. Is freedom of movement that big a threat to ZOG?

>>28484325
>They recycled the V6 option for a few years after 2015 before (thankfully) dropping it.
Shut ya whore mouth. The longitudinal 3.7s are fantastic engines, and having ridden in a 2014 manual, it's a good sports car. Fags like u are blind to how enjoyable they are simply because there's a horse on the front.

Mark my words. 2011-2017 v6s are going to be the drift missle of choice in 10 years.

>>28487073
>Here in Australia they cant give the Ecoboost Mustangs away while the V8s have a waiting list.
its because not only are they auto only but they have no manual mode even though they use a ZF8-derived 10r80 and only the v8 autos get manual shifting ability. i wouldn't buy that gay ass shit neither. they sound cool though.

>>28487273
they already basically are
once all the drift faggots wreck every last nissan fm platform in existence they will come for the v6 camaros challys and stangs

>>28484072
>digital dash, 2020s >:(
>digital dash, 1980s :O

>>28487282
absolute cinema

The Mustang is the top selling sports car in the USA. It is also the top selling sports car in the world.

>>28487273
Yep I do the tourist thing every time I go to US and hire a Mustang so have tried the V6 and the Ecoboost and honestly I preferred the V6. In saying that it still is inferior to our Ford Barra Inline Six. Would have been awesome if they put the Barra turbo in the Mustang but not sure if it would fit. The real question is why haven't they put the Godzilla V8 in the Mustang? Surely they could make it fit given its push rod? Maybe it's just because we never had big blocks in Australia but the idea of a 7L V8 makes my parts tingle.

>>28487351
Its also the ONLY pony car for sale.

in case you didn’t notice, that’s what every manufacturer does.
quality down, prices up.
except BMW, unironically. they stepped up their game in the past 10 years

>>28487422
Apparently, the Mustang has been the top selling sports car globally for 10 years now.

In 2022, prior to being cancelled, the Challenger did outsell the Mustang in the USA. Mustang sold 47,566 and the Challenger sold 55,060. The Charger sold 80,365. So, with the Challenger and Charger combined, they sold 135,425 total cars. The eurocuck CEO who fucked this up is a total fucking moron. The new electric Charger is set to sell less than 10k cars this year. That is a -92% drop in sales. Pic related is Dodge's face immediately prior to firing the eurocuck CEO.

>>28484072
Was renting a mustang while on vacation because I've never tried one. They had S550s and these new ones, once I saw the atrocious screens I went straight for the S550.
>>28484082
These gigantic screens and digital clusters disgust me

>>28487439
I think Ford got it right putting that stupid turbo 4 cyl in it because its peppy enough for NPCs to enjoy a mustang but not have to pay the coyote taxes. Its an overall good looking car and somewhat priced okay, but $70k for a V8 mustang is M2 or M3 money?

>>28487439
don't forget that the charger and challenger are 15 year old platforms that massively paid back their original development cost, were easily the best-quality cars chrysler has ever made and were literally doing nothing but printing money selling the same car 3 ways.
it was like the iacocca days but instead of k-body throwaway trash they were finally making cars people actually wanted to buy
i hope sergio marchionne buttfucks tavares in hell while the both of them stupid jews give adolf hitler a blowjob
holy fuck what a boondoggle, fucking chrysler has been in freefall for what seems like forever and still managed to shit out several of the worlds most desirable, fastest, and powerful cars, mass producing them on a scale that would bring a tear to henry ford's eye and yet still somehow managing to fuck up their entire business operation several times in a row.

they must have gov't defense contracts because it's the only reason they are still alive and still based in north america.

>>28487455
The Challenger and Charger had the pentastar V6. It was worse than the ecoboost, but it was there, and they sold a good amount of the V6s.

>$70k for a V8 mustang
Ecoboost Mustang starts at $31,920, GT V8 starts at $46,560, Dark Horse $64,380 and the Dark Horse Premium at $69,375.

M2 starts at $68,200. M4 starts at $80,100.

The M2 renders the d*rk horse obsolete, sadly

I honestly don’t understand why the 370z wasn’t tremendously popular.

>>28487486
2 seater, wasn't much different than 350Z, had less HP than Camaro, Challenger, Charger etc. and it wasn't cheap.

>>28487486
Ecoboost mustang performance for GT money. I don't think it had a back seat, either.
2+2's are just much more practical than proper 2-seat sports cars and most people can't afford to own more than one or two vehicles, so they need to do more or less everything they would need in daily life.

>>28487480
Silly Anon, the blind aren't allowed to drive.

>>28487473
>starts at
uh huh. How about models people actually want

>>28487511
>faster
>lighter
>shorter wheelbase
>higher quality all around
>better resell value
>better mpg
the list goes on and on

The interesting this is why don’t they sell
any economic argument is cope, America has hyperabundance in the upper quartile and that’s still almost 100 million people.
Really we got soft across the board. Very very few people are willing to put up with the minor inconveniences of sports cars.

>>28487473
Worse in what ways? The Pent v6 is a super reliable engine.

>>28487544
>America has hyperabundance in the upper quartile and that’s still almost 100 million people.
Those people buy luxury crossovers.

>>28487555
Yeah, retard, that’s what I was just explaining

>>28487538
Those are models people want, retard.

>>28487565
See
>>28484667

>>28487554
HP, torque, MPG.

>>28487568
>get the luxury trim then add $13k worth of options
>"wow it's expensive!"
Epic.

>>28483876 (OP)
Meanwhile the fucking 86 alone has outsold most other sports cars combined, and dodge is coming back to V8. Ford really fucking up by thinking Biden would stay in power and that EV mustang would actually sell in force (sold more than regular stang, but still sells awfully) .

>>28487565
dark horse premium with performance package is 80k
how tf is that not a standard package on the top level performance stang?

A 2002 Mustang GT started at $23,845 that is $43,282.51 today.

>>28487575
The Mach-E was a good move. Sells more than the regular Mustang and brings up their fleet MPG.

>>28487575
>>28487599
Its a less retarded move than what Stellantis did but I still would have called the entire platform something different. Maybe another horse name, like the Bronco. Associating it with the Mustang just drags both the real one and the fat electric thing skinwalking it down.

>>28487595
GT starts at 46k
I say again, the economic argument is horse shit
The market doesn’t want sports cars bc we’re a coddled people

>>28487574
>luxury trim
>mustang
You don't get out much, do you?

>>28487611
Perhaps, but I'd be interested in seeing sports car sales as a percentage of total car sales over the last say 40+ years. I was trying to find it earlier but couldn't find any good numbers.

>>28487611
The economic argument makes sense when you see that wages haven't met the same rate as inflation. Though the reason why people don't want sports cars is because your average SUV is now around the same speed as a sports car from 15-20 years ago. Why by a car meant to be fast (what normies think sports cars are for) when the SUV or Truck goes just as fast and is more practical.

>>28487622
>The economic argument makes sense when you see that wages haven't met the same rate as inflation
No it fucking does not. When you realize modern cars are 100x safer, have much better power and mileage, have way more comfort, have so much more tech (lol screens) like backup sensors and cameras, and can easily last longer than 100k miles that a 1973 mustang simple cannot.

You have to be terminally stupid to consider inflation for a completely different car in name only should be priced no higher than inflation from the 1970s.

>>28487622
>average SUV is now around the same speed as a sports car from 15-20 years ago
I was going to bring this up too. A 2002 Mustang GT does 0-60 in 5.8s. A 2025 RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid does 0-60 in 5.5s. A model 3 does it in 4.9s to 2.9s depending on trim. F150 V8 does it in 6.0s.

These types of cars pull away potential sports car buyers.

>>28487642
>These types of cars pull away potential sports car buyers.
Yeah, I stopped looking at sports cars when a Rav4 and a minivan got close to 0-60 times
said nobody ever

>>28487642
>These types of cars pull away potential sports car buyers.
no they don't
as a sports car buyer myself i would never even look at those cars. car dynamics are far more complex and nuanced than 0-60 and you're a fucking dipshit if you think a RAV4 or Tesla are anywhere near as kino as a live rear axle, 2 door, possibly even convertible v8 sports car.
even then i could buy a 2015+ v6 dodge challenger that eats the 2002 v8 stang alive, has the same cargo capacity and seating as the tesla and is as reliable as the toyota while also handling better than all three of them combined.

>>28487645
That does in fact happen. Especially when you consider that the average new car buyer is 52 years old and probably has family they'd like to cart around.

I would definitely say EVs especially pull potential buyers away. A model 3 performance does 0-60 in 2.9s and starts at $55k (before tax credits/incentives). A Mustang Dark Horse does it in 3.9s. A M2 is also 3.9s.

>>28487661
This is a wall of cope. Obviously the driving experience is not the same. But we're talking about 300 million normies who aren't autistic about cars.

>>28487661
>as a sports car buyer
Here is the secret, most people buying sports cars are not "sports cars buyers", they are regular car buyers who often fall in love with a sports car because they happen to not be purely shopping for practicality. You are delusional if you think most people who have a sports car are "sports car buyers"

>>28487544
You're fucking delusional thinking 100m people in the US are "well off". Living paycheck to paycheck with everything nice and shiny you "own" actually being financed isn't "well off" you dickhead.

>>28487668
>I would definitely say EVs especially pull potential buyers away.
And there it is. I thought USAID funding stopped for people like you posting here.

>>28487716
>understanding normie behavior triggers your schizophrenia
Anon, shut the fuck up. I have a manual 485 hp V8, it's probably faster and more aggressive than whatever you have.

>>28487735
Are you seriously trying to tell me you manually make 485 horsepower? Get the fuck outta here!

>>28487716
He is "right" but in a 1% max. Their are some EV buyers that were cross shopping something like a M3, but to say they were a major factor is completely wrong.

>>28487741
Yes.

>>28487742
I'd agree with you, anon. But as you stated, 1% is one of those statistical "who cares" buckets. If we're arguing 1%ers that'd be a catchall for those considering a minivan and a sports car. Surely that has happened. Nobody in marketing or engineering is trying to get that 1% of fucking whom's'tv'de've'nst of car buyers.

>>28487742
>>28487753
It's much higher than 1%. The cheapest Model Y, which is the SUV family mom car, is 5.6s 0-60. Times have changed.

The fact is the general performance of vehicles is much higher now. Therefore the difference between a performance car and a typical car is smaller. For actual enthusiasts it's still completely worth buying an actual performance car. But the typical normie can, will and is, swayed away from buying a sports car by practicality and the increased average performance of vehicles. They get their cake and eat it too.

>>28487766
Hey man, people who actually buy cars care about more than 0-60 times. We know EVs and minivans are faster than sports cars 0-60. We don't care. We love cars, you love appliances.

>>28487669
>You are delusional if you think most people who have a sports car are "sports car buyers"
anon you're a complete fucking retard thats really all i have to say about this exquisitely stupid ass post

>>28487668
>This is a wall of cope. Obviously the driving experience is not the same.
then a faggot ev and a sensible midsize suv are NOT being cross-shopped with sports cars at all, a sports car buyer is after the sports car driving experience, he doesn't care about high-centered anal suppository shaped cars and in fact has open disdain for them.

>>28487669
I personally do not know a single person that has done this. You go out shopping for a car, an idea of what type already exists in your mind.
Jimmy from accounting with 3 kids and a bitch wife isn't going into a Toyota dealership with a Sienna or Highlander in mind just to walk out with a Supra or 86 because he fell in love with it lmao.

>>28487769
As I already said, I have a manual 485 HP V8.

>>28487777
>a sports car buyer is after the sports car driving experience
50% of Mustangs sold are ecoboosts, mostly automatic. You're delusional.

>>28487803
>50% of Mustangs sold are ecoboosts, mostly automatic.
yes because they're sold to rental agencies and automatic is the only transmission you can get the ecoboost with you spackle eating retard

>>28487805
>they're sold to rental agencies
No.
>only transmission you can get the ecoboost
That only started in 2024.

>>28487809
>they're sold to rental agencies
>No.
https://www.enterprise.com/en/rental-cars/us/cars/convertible-star.html
nigger the previous gen is LITERALLY THE POSTER CAR

>>28487814
>convertible

>>28484082
>$34k screen bad
>$46k screen worse

>>28487282
the vast majority of these weren’t pretty either, we just remember the nice ones, which still had 10x the effort of any modern ipad shitter setup

>>28487642
This as well as pickups which is why I think it's such a fail Ford not offering a V8 in their Expedition or Explorer. Imagine if you could get an Explorer with a Coyote or a Expedition with a Godzilla

Next year the MY27 facelift is going to go crazy. Ford is going to have to do something about how negatively this iteration is received. It's like 2014 all over again. Especially if Dodge brings back the V8 for the Charger.
Or they'll just straight up stop making it entirely that's definitely a possibility.

>>28487466
Its not like they needed to update the platform as most of their buyers use them for drag strip's or cruising main street not going around a racetrack. Hell could probably put live axle on the back and save a Cheeky 200kilos and 99% of people wouldnt know the difference. Also why did they never do a modern 426 Hemi seems like an easy marketing win and surely they can bore/stroke it to 7L

>>28487984
>426 Hemi
Already had the 392 making 485 HP naturally aspirated and getting 13 mpg. They made a 426 Hemi Hellephant supercharger crate engine with 1,000 HP.

Without making esoteric shit 485 hp is a fuckload naturally aspirated.

>>28488006
you know they could get 25 mpg out of it and ACTUALLY SELL A LOT OF THEM
if they made a new clean sheet design 4 liter dohc v8 with a mild hybrid 48V battery system and put it in a NEW durango with a NEW interior that isn't all black, isn't all shiny plastic or screens and has actual buttons
but nah why do REASONABLE things

>>28488008
Why make another small DOHC V8. I say go the opposite direction like Ford with the Godzilla and make a big block hemi again.

>>28488008
>you know they could get 25 mpg
>25 mpg 7 liter NA V8 making over 500 hp
Not happening.

>>28488010
another?
I am talking about dodge/stellantis
fiat ONLY uses pushrod v8s in america and its killing them
no more pushrods its 20 fucking 25
for fuel economy
you want the smoothness of a v8 but you don't really need more than 400 hp you will never use that on a public road

>>28488011
no, no 4 liters only, still NA (or maybe it comes in both turbo and not). and 350-400 hp - you cannot beat electric cars in hp
v8 is about the sound and the smoothness and the low end torque
competing on numbers is stupid

>>28488012
>you don't really need more than 400 hp you will never use that on a public road
I do all the time. Do you even own a car?

>>28488013
They're coming out with the Hurricane i6 twin turbo next year. Standard is 420 hp and 469 torque, high output is 540 hp and 521 torque.

>>28487595
ok chatgpt, now present the price of a mustang as a percentage of median income

>>28488013
It may sound redneck but there truly is "no replacement for displacement". Do get a 4L V8 to make decent power it takes a lot of precision (expensive) parts and a lot of stress on the motor as well as complexity. Besides pushrod tech is so good these days where you can do stuff like variable valve timing and hi-cam (chain driven cam that goes to very short pushrods at the head in order to keep the head compact. The other benefit of big-block is you can share it with your pickups which are the real money maker for the Big3 which is why Ford abandoned 30 years of Modular shilling and suddenly released the Godzilla.

>>28488054
>Median wage
$22,152.84 in 2002, $43,222.81 in 2023. You can do the math.

>>28488085
Honestly the fact is that the 392 HEMI making 485 HP is one of the most powerful naturally aspirated engines ever made for a production vehicle. And that's including exotics costing hundreds of thousands. And it's a relatively simple, reliable engine in a relatively inexpensive vehicle.

The C8 Z06's LT6 engine makes 670 hp at 8,400 RPM. It's quite a feat of engineering.

>>28488054
You shouldn't be making any less than $50k in this day and age. If you make less than that then you shouldn't be buying a fucking sports car. If you're single you better be making a lot more than that. If you're DINKS or a guy making $70k+ a year with no student debt then you can easily afford a pony car. tldr: stop living like the parasites of society.

>>28488105
t. $50k/yr, V6 Mustang driver

>>28488105
fuck you wagie faggot go pay my taxes
god i'd love to be on welfare just to make you little cocksuckers seethe even harder

>>28485495
And you bought this? Yeah...

>>28483876 (OP)
Don't forget that the Corvette Z06 gaps it, and there's an even-more-powerful version coming next. Yes, it's technically upmarket, but if you're one of those who want an American V8 track car, the vette is going to be staring you in the face.

>>28488100
Yep I was a big fan of the Ford Voodoo V8 which was the largest capacity flat-plane V8 until the CorvetteTVSM8

>>28487360
>"ford" barra i6
It's quite literally a 60 year old engine platforn is it not. Stop jerking yourself off about being Australian it doesn't impress anyone butnstupid people.

>>28487803
>As I already said, I have a manual 485 HP V8.
Are you that guy that only looks at 0-60 or made up horsepower numbers? You're not even a car guy by repeating "485hpv8" Is that a diesel 7.3 or an LS? Do you even know?

>>28488357
Apache 392 Hemi. Also, 0-60 is somewhat outdated. 0-130 is more useful.

>>28488373
And what car is it in? You sure are cagey about your bad flexes.

>>28488397
Challenger SRT 392.

>>28483876 (OP)
The interior of this car is criminal.

>>28487270
gods country

>>28483891
Cars like the mustang or camaro would be five times the car they are if they took the same internals and shrunk the chassis by 50%. There's a reason everyone went crazy for the fox body meme.
Everything on the road today is made fat and heavy bricks for no good reason.

>>28484061
A base model mustang is not only cheaper than an elantra it is faster and more fuel efficient at the same time.
I think hyundai is doing good work with with it's n badge and has come a long way and it's not a car you'll regret having either, but there's still room for improvement.

>>28488553
Lol how small do you think a foxbody is? They're barely any smaller than a new mustang. New mustangs are 9 inches longer and 7 inches is wheelbase. The longer wheelbase is necessary for high speed stability which is why the new GT500 can do 180mph. Did you really think a 80s mustang was the same size as a Miata?

>>28488578
There's about a thousand pounds worth of difference between then and now.
desu, 2500 is barely serviceable already for a roadster.

>>28488597
weight ≠ size
you said "shrunk the chassis by 50%"
that's insane. that's actually smaller than a miata. that's closer to a cappucino. and you think they could put a 760hp supercharged flat plane crank V8 in a cappucino?

>>28488597
>>28488553
Yes the fox body was a tin can piece of shit with no body rigidity. Autists like you don't get that people largely want leather, audio systems, crash safety, sound deadening, interior room, trunk space etc. The vast majority of performance cars are intended as daily drivers.

>>28487607
the gelding

>>28487439
Carlos Tavares was on record saying he didn't get the appeal of the v8s and wanted Alfa Romeo to be the crown jewel of Stellantis.

>>28487622
>The economic argument makes sense when you see that wages haven't met the same rate as inflation
I think people fail to consider that wage growth is tracking the people from 20 years ago getting 20 years of promotions/experience, you really need to be tracking the median wage for like a 30 year old to see what the bottom end of the working man's economy is looking like, not tracking boomers/gen x from entry level to upper management.

>>28487607
They could've just called it the Thunderbird, they aren't bringing that car back anyway. Or hell, take some Mercury nameplates back and call it the Meta or Lynx

>>28488820
>just the Charger/Challenger alone selling well over 100k units in USA
>Alfa Romeo entire brand sold 61k units GLOBALLY
Europoors are so fucking retarded.

>>28488610
>weight ≠ size
Obviously.
>you said "shrunk the chassis by 50%"
Curb your autism. It's a figure of speech anon.
>you think they could put a 760hp supercharged flat plane crank V8 in a cappucino?
Not with a supercharger but you could definitely boost any stout block above 2 quarts that high (or higher).

>>28488820
These 'conglomerate group' managers are so retarded. They don't get the idea that you can have multiple teams with cars in the same segment. And that is is better for quality and cultivating expertise. They have to autistically pigeonhole everything into its own box with no crossover and that just ruins everything (end all zoning laws btw).
You bought the brand in the first place because you were thinking 'by our powers combined we can be even greater', but then you get rid of all the things that made them worth buying to begin with, the things that make a stand-out brand that could stand on its own right. GM dropped the camaro because 'we already have the corvette we dont need any distractions'. Stupid. Well the corvette is a great car that puts everything in the same price range and more than a few things above it to shame too for that matter, but the only thing better than one great car is more than one great car. And this hedges against loss of personnel/institutional knowledge as well. All the great lincoln and pontiac performance badges got dumpstered because of this too.

>>28488820
>wanted Alfa Romeo to be the crown jewel of Stellantis.
>gave Maserati the grecale (stelvio lwb)
>forced Alfa to make two consecutive electrified small SUVs, neither of which are even produced in Italy or designed by Italians
>ignored platform development outside of SUVs
Tavares is literally retarded

>>28489005
>It's a figure of speech
>i-i-it's a figure of speech! obviously when i said they should "shrink the chassis" the one thing i didn't mean was that they should "shrink the chassis"
say what you mean and mean what you say. we aren't mind readers.

>>28489081
Are you upset I rounded it instead of specifying 55.9, or perhaps 38.7? Why aren't you asking which make or model in specific these numbers may be referring too either? Unless you and I are building the car ourselves right now this is not the time for false specificity, only pointing the right direction, because any figure you can come up with right now will very likely be the wrong one. In other words, appreciate the difference between ordinality and cardinality.
And you know if you wanted to be persnickety you could have started with the 'five times the car they are' statement first - but that would perhaps have made it too obvious that we were dealing in figurative language here.

>>28489116
looks like you made this post in the wrong thread

>>28489132
speak for yourself

>>28487282
We could have achieved greatness but instead we took the future and put it in a museum.

My mom controls my inheritance but I'm going to try to trade in my manual LT1 on a blue Camaro SS 6th gen automatic

I have a soft spot for Camaros ever since I saw this guy back in 2007 drive up to the park hangout smoking a wine Swisher in a 2002 Camaro v6 with the exhaust mod that makes it sound like a v8. I want one car to keep for the rest of my life. I don't drive much and in fact in two years I've put about only 1,000 miles on my LT1, partly because I hate driving manual in town traffic. It's very tedious, a novelty

>>28489550
I used to drive stick in SF for work, stop complaining.

>>28483876 (OP)
>Why is no one buying our huge, bloated, ugly, overpriced, iPadded, can't turn, nu-stang?
Tis a mystery

>>28490448
Its not huge or bloated, ugly is subjective but yes the S550 was better, it is expensive but the performance is there including turning, and hating screens is a (current year) complaint.

>>28489634
I had a Miata in New York for years as my only car, the whole “manuals are annoying in traffic” thing is a holdover from when economy cars had a clutch pedal that gave you a quad workout.
Light clutches have been the standard on sports cars (and motorcycles for that matter) for at least the fifteen years.

>>28490448
Despite all its other flaws, it's not overpriced.

>>28483876 (OP)
>>28483899
>>28487473
>>28489550
Raped by Porsche. Remember that, short brown sons

>>28490448
>can't turn

Nigga what? I pull 1G of lateral grip just fine on Pilot Sport 4S's

t. s650 gt owner

>>28484061
Because when you turn around to look at it in the parking lot, it's still a fwd economy car.

>>28487575
And Update Dodge is now fully back with Srt coming back effectively proving that V8 charger-like is coming. Ford with the generational ball dropping by trying to price for no-competition

>>28487265
every fourth cars a tesla, every third cars a subaru here
t. middle of nowhere town average america

>>28487282
wow. that is both incredibly cool and also the most ugly thing ive ever seen. very neat

>>28489550
oh no this looks exactly like the garage at the sober living i was in. and they had residents doing the same fucking shit. "well i cant afford rent this month but my moms covering the payments on my telsa so i can to uber eats, can you let me out after the 10 pm curfew so i can ear enough to make ren-" you fucking clown, fuck yourself. god that place made me feel so much better about how much of a loser i was. you can go so, so much lower.

>>28487631
What does that have to do with people's purchasing power being down?

>>28494018
It doesn't, but lets not pretend most poor people are poor because they're terrible with money.