Thread 2832923

I work in an office with 7 women and 3 men, me being one of the 3. When the last woman, Jan, came to work there 3 years ago, even the other women were talking about how hot she is. I hardly associate with anyone in the office during the day. I communicate as needed. Do my 8 and leave.

I camp a lot, almost every weekend, just not this weekend. I bring my truck full of camping gear on Fridays and head out after work. Jan, the hot chick has never even greeted me and vice versa. Just a nod of the head. 2 months ago she came to my office, she flat got to the point. She lied to her Jersey friends back home that she camps a lot. She needs to learn how. I just looked at her and said you tube. Expecting her to leave, but she didn't. She insisted it was important to learn as her friends were coming for a visit from Jersey and staying a week with her, (Montana) to do some camping.

I said no. Friday came and off I went. Not expecting to be followed by anyone, especially Jan. I park, set up my camp. It doesn't take me long since I do it so often. Then Jan walks up with a backpack and about 4 grocery bags in each hand. All she said is I want to learn to camp. I said nothing. For 2 or more hours we have no conversation, she is just taking pictures of everything I have, the name tags, each item, the way my camp is laid out. Then she said, I need to take a shit real bad. What do? I hand her the army shovel and point. Out of curiosity, I peek at where she went, she did 2 shovels, couldn't wait and then squatted and let er rip.

Then she yelled, do you have any TP? I grab my wipe bag, walk over close enough to toss it to her and walk off. Wipe bag has everything, TP, wipes, hand cleaner, small paper towels. She comes back, knows where to hang the wipe bag since she scoped the place out pretty good. Later I eat what I brought and she digs into her grocery bags. Politely she asks if I care for any of her stuff. I just nod no.

It got dark, cold, windy and started to drizzle. I get my sleeping sweats on and hunker in the tent. She asks if she can come in. I said no, sleep in your car. She was already unzipping the tent and asked very politely again. I said nothing. I felt invaded. She dragged her pack in along with the grocery bags. LOL. I could tell she was cold. She takes off her boots, opens a grocery bag and pulls out a package. It's a dam inflatable canoe for a pool. She blows the thing up, funny, I could tell a few times she was dizzy. Then out of the pack, she pulls out a very nice pendleton blanket. Lines the canoe with the blanket, takes off her wet shorts and shirt, gets in the blanket, wraps up, and fades away to sleep. She farts a lot and snores.

I wake up, sun is up. I decide to make noise to wake her but no movement from the canoe. I open the tent and there she is, eating a granola bar, apple, with a water bottle under her arm pit. While standing there in the sun light, in her underwear and bra. She greets me good morning. I just grab my wipe bag and shovel and head out. I come back and see she is swirling her shirt and shorts in the air trying to dry them. Then, with a giggle, she says she forgot to bring a change of clothes. I dress and gather my snacks and pack, getting ready to do a morning hike. She sees this and does the same. Then she asks how long the hike it is and I tell her only 2 miles. She is ready to go before I am. We do the hike with small talk. That peak is this and that creek is that type stuff. The rest of the weekend goes good. Kinda enjoyed her company. We pack stuff up Sunday evening, I load it in my truck and she starts walking off, turns around and thanks me.

I start down the steep rutted road and realize I didn't see her car. Maybe she already left. I get to the bottom and see her car, small compact Mazda, so I stop and wait about 30 minutes. Then she comes out of the trees, sees me and waves. I asked her why she didn't just ask for a ride down and she said I did enough already.

We still don't associate at work but she was ready the following Friday. This time in the parking lot. She asked if I could drive her and stuff up to the camp site, so yeah we just loaded the stuff into the truck and she road with me. I noticed she smiles a lot. We did one more time together. She is an excellent camper now. Her friends arrived Wednesday, she still didn't have all the things needed for camping so I lent her my truck loaded with all my camping gear for her friends and her to have a good time. That's the reason I'm not camping this weekend.

>>2832932
Quite the tale of endless simping

>>2832923 (OP)
Last time I went to Zoar Valley, that overlook was closed due to renovations. The new Memorial Trail was a waste of time because of it. What does the updated viewing area look like? I'm guessing there's a platform and signs telling visitors to stay off the cliff's edge where locals used to go for decades.
Did you hike the Valentine's Flats trail down to the confluence? Were there any nudists around today?

Currently at Waihee Ridge Trail. Nice hike up, trail is a bit muddy starting around 2/3 up.

>>2832947
1. I emailed the park before going and at least the memorial trail is open (apparently it was closed for a bit earlier in the summer - and their website is awful)
>that overlook was closed
still is, and you have to hop a fence - or theres NO VIEW AT ALL
you see NOTHING from the memorial trail except a few nice big old trees
> What does the updated viewing area look like? I'm guessing there's a platform and signs telling visitors to stay off the cliff's edge where locals used to go for decades.
lol its just completely fenced off with endless signs telling you to fuck off and hope you don't get fined by a ranger if you actually, ya know, wanna see a view from the gorge - I drove 3 hrs each way to get there - I was not about to miss getting ANY sort of view.
>Did you hike the Valentine's Flats trail down to the confluence?
No I was exhausted from previous hikes. This was actually quite an easy hike excluding the psychological barrier of having to do something illegal to get a view - why they can't just ya know build a railing at the overlook like normal people ????

> Were there any nudists around today?
next time I will go down to the flats - also not sure if this is legal - but you can apparently (saw on youtube) climb "the pyramid" to what looks like the best view - though I swear I read/saw somewhere there were good views from the north side of the gorge - but that's illegal too
nys is an absurd nanny state with insane low, predatory speed limits and strict numerous rules for every park
>where locals used to go for decades
and that's what's so insane - people have been viewing these cliffs for HUNDREDS of years - instead of making it safe with a normal railing - they just fence it off
Does anyone have the meme of "welcome to new york you are now under arrest"?

>>2832977
+1 for you disregarding the lame restrictions and checking out the view anyway. I didn't bother because I've already been more times than I can count. You're right that Valentine's Point is an easy hike and not that risky if you're paying attention. There are loads of steep climbs up shale cliffs that are far sketchier. The Pyramid isn't too bad if you have scrambling experience. The view on the north rim that you're referring to is probably Knife Edge Ridge. It's technically illegal with pathway entrances being covered up. Still not hard to find though.
From what I've read, a safe overlook will eventually be installed at Valentine's Point but NYS is taking their sweet time like always.
I've been wanting to bushwhack to Martin's Point (the big cliff in your photo) to see if there are any views in the opposite direction from above the confluence. I'm willing to risk the minuscule chance that a DEC ranger will catch me doing it.

>>2832989
>+1 for you disregarding the lame restrictions and checking out the view anyway
I did an illegal view the day before (pic related) at Treman State Park near Ithaca- you can't go off trail (lul) and so you can't really get close to Lucifer Falls from the bottom of it without going past the don't go here signs and getting in the water - my trekking poles REALLY helped

>if you have scrambling experience
I do but I was super sore and wasn't about to test it
>The view on the north rim that you're referring to is probably Knife Edge Ridge
do you have coordinates or know exactly where it is? I've seen a bunch of pictures of Zoar overlooks/cliffs but can't map a picture to a location
> It's technically illegal with pathway entrances being covered up
new york state is an unredeemable nanny state
do I have to jump a fence or just go past no-no signs?

>I've been wanting to bushwhack to Martin's Point (the big cliff in your photo)
I feel like there are unless I'm confusing it with knife's edge
zoar is a puzzle
>I'm willing to risk the minuscule chance that a DEC ranger will catch me doing it.
lemme know if there's a good view if you do
why would you call it x person's point if there was no view (unless there WAS a view and now it's tree-blocked)

Also you would like Red River Gorge - there's tons of places where you are at a view and you see an outcropping in the distance and think hmm maybe there's a view on the other side and you could spend years figuring those out - plus they aren't as strict about edges and off trail stuff

>>2832923 (OP)
Fishing in the rain. Zero fucks given.

>>2832994
Yeah, I know those signs at Treman very well. You've gotten closer to Lucifer than I ever have so cheers.

>do you have coordinates or know exactly where it is?
Google Maps has a "photo sphere" from this location. The coordinates on the map are 42.441079, -78.882642 which looks accurate when plugging them into Caltopo.
You park at the American Chestnut Plantation parking lot near the intersection of Vail and Unger roads. A trail goes south from there. Keep going south, off-trail into the wooded area. You will eventually intersect with a decommissioned hiking trail. Turn right (west) and keep going until you reach the top of Knife Edge Ridge which is hard to miss.
I haven't been since the new DEC regulations went into effect so I cannot tell you if the area is gated off now. This is one area where you can easily get into trouble if you try climbing around and exploring. One of the sketchiest climbs of my life happened in this area when I ventured down to a waterfall that I heard in the distance. One misstep on my climb back up and I probably wouldn't be here right now.

>why would you call it x person's point if there was no view
It would make sense for this feature even if there's no view up top, because it's a prominent and well-known landmark at the confluence of the Catt Creek's main branch and south branch.

>Red River Gorge
I went there once and checked out most of the highlights. The natural arches were my favorite attractions since they aren't as common in the east.

>>2833000
>You've gotten closer to Lucifer than I ever have so cheers.
??
There were tons of folks doing the rock hop when I was there - obviously it wouldn't work during higher water - maybe that's what you mean - also this isn't even as close as you can get - I saw a couple walking on the gorge edge bottom to get the closest you can get
also it was funny cuz there were all these people in the gorge illegally and some guy was releasing a drone from the rim trail overlook and the ranger was just up the trail hand-sawing a branch blocking the trail off - then she headed back to the office or whatever - she wasn't looping the trail to catch people
but kinda retarded to play forest janny instead of you know like being there to help people

I found this video:
https://youtu.be/Z8-jjfOJFMc?si=RjQeiY-_iBZK59H-
you said american chestnut parking - this video says holcomb ponds parking - maybe they are the same thing
looks too sketchy for me - I don't trust shale
weird they wouldn't add a rope
I mean maybe shale you can't drill into but they should add metal railings and steps

>and checked out most of the highlights
there's WAY more stuff than you could fit into one trip
and big south fork is nice too - less crowded than red river as well

I guess I will try to look if there's any view at martin's point all I could find was a geocache which had a photo that looks like its at the edge but there's no view and there's a rope to get you to that point - not sure if brought in or extant

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC29AQN

>>2833002
>??
I have never ventured beyond the "no going beyond this point" sign to reach the base of the waterfall and only saw it from the trail itself

>you said american chestnut parking - this video says holcomb ponds parking
Holcomb Ponds parking is east of American Chestnut parking. It's a longer walk to Knife Edge Ridge from Holcomb Ponds.

>geocache
The author is the webmaster of this Zoar Valley site that contains a lot of useful information: https://www.frankbroughton.us

>there's WAY more stuff than you could fit into one trip
Of course

>>2833007
>Holcomb Ponds parking is east of American Chestnut parking. It's a longer walk to Knife Edge Ridge from Holcomb Ponds.
noted
still, looks 2 sketchy 5 me
cool that it goes ALL the way down to the creek but shale is asking for it - I bet it would be less crazy with my yak trax on - I would do the pyramid though
I figured out that doing crazy sketchy waterfalls where you slide down to the bottom is less crazy if you put the yak trax on first - even not in snowy/icy conditions

>Of course
but there's a higher outcropping ratio than anywhere else I've been in terms of theoretical views from every side of multiple mini gorges

>I have never ventured beyond the "no going beyond this point" sign
but why
the whole point of a waterfall is to get to the bottom - I try not to go to waterfalls where you can only see them from the top - it's always disappointing
If I am going to walk down and up umpteen flights of steps to GET TO THE BOTTOM
I am going to see the bottom

Are we allowed to have a single recent outings thread without the appalchian overlook sperg filling it with endless text

sure wish they would chop down the trees obstructing the views

One of my favorite spots to pick pacific blackberries. Humboldt County ca

Sunrise. Trinity county near burnt ranch, CA

Siskyou county CA
Stumbled across a complex of darlingtonia fens while hiking at snowline looking at slime molds and stuff. Acres of wildflowers, braided streams, and darlingtonia. Like something out of a fairytale.

>>2833220
>>2833223
Motherfucker why are my photos upside down

>>2833224
because you posted from your phone, and 4chan strips the exif data when you post from your phone which takes away the gps data but also removes the orientation data (landscape or portrait alignment) - you have to type "exif remover" and run your photos through that before posting them here if you want them right side up

Wildfire haze is rough on the lungs.

>>2833242
hmm kinda reminds me of the shenandoahs
I've never actually felt wildfire smoke in my lungs - I've SMELLED it - seen it with my eyes - but it has never fucked up a hike cuz I couldn't breathe
you must be in the west then?
It has been more hazy and dry here than I would like. I am praying for rain.

Also, has anyone hiked in a "nanny state" with lots of rules and or restrictions?

>>2833242
Got to see some cool flowers
>>2833243
This is in New Hampshire actually. The haze doesn't smell like woodsmoke or anything, strangely enough. I wonder if the compounds that smell like smoke are particularly volatile and break down before the particulate falls out of the air.

>>2833240
>you have to type "exif remover" and run your photos through that

Lmao

>>2833245
>The haze doesn't smell like woodsmoke or anything
well, the wildfires I smell smelled like burning rubber - not like woodsmoke

haze makes me sad
:(

>>2833240
not just a phoneposter thing. 4chan strips the exif data of every photo. back in the day, before 4chan stripped exif data, it was a daily occurrence for people to post photos they took with their phone not realizing that the photo had GPS info in the exif data and immediately get doxed.

I think /p/ is the exception and doesn't strip exif data since it's important to photographyfags.

>>2833223
that is gorgeous

>>2832932
Nigga what the fuck. I thought you were at least going to fuck her. Please be trolling.

>>2833220
Man, Australia is so beautiful this time of year

This is a roadside waterfall - well you can't SEE it from the road, but it's like 50 ft in. Someone parked a tractor in the little gravel pullout where you would otherwise park. There was a 3-way junction just nearby that had room to pull over and no signs saying you couldn't park - but it was still pretty awkward.

up close

otherwise parking

>>2832929
>>2832930
>>2832931
>>2832932
>work in office with 7 women, 3 men including me
>keep to myself, minimal convo, do my 8 and dip
>every Friday, truck loaded, off to camp solo
>3 years ago Jan joins office
>literal smoke show, even other women say it
>never talked to her, just head nods
>2 months ago she shows up at my office
>says she lied to her Jersey friends about being a camper
>wants me to teach her
>I hit her with the YouTube suggestion
>she doesn’t leave, insists it's important
>tell her no, think it’s done
>Friday, off to my usual camping spot
>set up, everything chill
>out of nowhere, Jan shows up
>backpack and like 8 grocery bags
>“I want to learn to camp”
>...alright then
>she silently documents everything I own like it’s a museum exhibit
>takes pics of gear tags, camp layout, etc
>suddenly says “I need to take a shit real bad. What do?”
>hand her army shovel, point into the wild
>out of curiosity, peek
>she’s digging frantically, doesn’t even finish second hole
>squats and unleashes hell
>“DO YOU HAVE TP?”
>toss her my wipe bag like a battlefield care package
>she returns, hangs wipe bag back up like a pro
>I eat, she eats
>politely offers food, I decline with a nod
>gets dark, windy, rain coming
>I get into tent, comfy mode
>she asks if she can come in
>tell her no, sleep in the car
>already unzipping the tent
>brings in backpack and all grocery bags like a raccoon in heat
>starts unpacking
>pulls out inflatable pool canoe
>proceeds to inflate, almost passes out
>lines it with a Pendleton blanket like it’s a 5-star bed
>strips down to bra and undies, curls up, passes out
>snores like a chainsaw, farts like a foghorn

>>2833414
>next morning, I wake up
>make noise to wake her, nothing
>unzip tent
>she’s standing outside, apple and granola bar, water bottle in armpit
>greets me like we’re old friends
>still in her underwear
>I grab shovel and wipe bag and dip
>come back, she’s flapping her wet clothes like laundry flags
>giggles, “forgot to bring a change of clothes”
>going for a 2-mile hike
>she’s geared up before I am
>ask zero questions
>hike goes well, small talk, nature facts
>rest of the weekend = chill
>pack up Sunday
>she thanks me and starts walking off
>drive down mountain, don’t see her car
>maybe she left already
>get to bottom, see her compact Mazda
>wait 30 min
>she strolls out of the woods, waves
>ask why she didn’t ask for a ride
>“You did enough already”
>next Friday she’s in the parking lot ready to go
>asks for a ride to the site
>load her stuff, she smiles a lot now
>camp together again
>she’s pro tier now
>her Jersey friends come into town
>not enough gear
>lend her my fully loaded truck
>they go have a great weekend
>that's why I’m not camping this weekend

>>2832995
>>2833242
Very atmospheric.

i saw some pelicans

>>2833590
nice birbs. I found this pond today but no ducks. I'll have to stop by again

>>2832995
it's a legit tactic

>>2834027
I always try to take 3-4 shots so I don't accidentally get one with a fly ruining it.
Kinda looks like Shenandoah but judging by the shape of the mountains it must be further north.

Live view. Sup /out/?

>>2834135
Look at that big ass mf there's in the distance

>>2834135
Odd feeling to look down on a mountain.

>>2834140
Back. Time to go home.

>>2834178
Bonus.
It says:

"Luzia Kofl from Wolfsberg in Carinthia died of a cold on September 2, 1866, at the height of the Reichenstein."

kek

>https://jumpshare.com/s/a10GKgXBwopDrFITkJSU
guess which country(no cheating)

>>2832941
>>2833287
Both of you are fucking retarded.

>>2834286
aus (tasmania)

>>2834328
india

>>2834027
Carinthia? Slovenia?

What should I cook later?

booked a campsite close to home (I live 30min from a mountain very nice) the only one available since the popular ones are usually packed this time of year. thinking it's like all the others I forgot to refill my water jug but figured wasn't a big deal water spigots are everywhere. once I get to the turn out I already have no reception and it's a dirt road (I have a older Honda sedan lol) Taking it slow the road is uneven but not bad and get passed by plenty of lifted cars lol I didn't haven't to spend that much to do this. Discovered a fire watch tower nearby. Great hang out looking straight into the face of a mountain I've known my whole life and had to hike a mile down to fetch water from the only spigot around. Drew, wrote and read a lot. I ate good and slept bad. 10/10 for sure

full moon dawn

I had a lovely hike around this lake last weekend

>>2834027
Kosiak near the border between the two.

>>2834027
Is your name Ludwig?

Went into the Cloud Peak Wilderness in WY last weekend, very comfy and caught bucks of cuthroat and rainbow trout.

>>2834726
Good old pocket trout.

>>2834740
Ozark National Forest this past July. (Spy Rock Trail)

>>2832923 (OP)
Petit Jean State Park

>>2834027
based

>>2834027
cute. inspiring me to take a plush on a camping trip

Osceola and East Osceola yesterday, great day. I got to see a Chinook do a flyover too.

I went out

>>2834938
that's AI, sir.

Rainier

oh thanks to the anon who recommended treman, very nice except for the jeets and chinks

>>2834940
No, sir, it is not.

I'm also out right now.

>>2835009
>>2835010
mirin

send rain

>>2832923 (OP)
>>2832930
>>2832931
>>2832932
I think you might just me a homo. Definitely an asshole.

From this past weekend. My truck is currently getting a new wheel bearing and rear struts,will go out again this coming weekend if I get it back in time
>file size limit big gay

From a couple weeks ago

Went fishing, caught fish. Pretty creek.

>>2835009
nice. caught this view of it today

>>2834135
I'm thinking based

My hiking season it's over. I'm so fucking depressed it's unreal.

>>2836506
just go hike retard

>>2832923 (OP)
Great gulf wilderness, Mt Washington NH

Field of fireweed halfway up the rock slide

>>2832932
>I lent her my truck loaded with all my camping gear for her friends
you will never see that shit again

>>2832923 (OP)
Just got back from a trip doing some hiking/scrambling in the rockies

>>2836549
I don't have a car to go to good places to hike. My town it's shit.

I went to Felbrigg Hall, a 17th century country house with my mum yesterday. Does that count?

>>2836707
doing something with your mother is always valid

>>2836707
yes, I often incorporate mansions/tours into my hiking trips - it's nice to break it up and an hour long tour can be plenty of a workout if you are standing the whole time - the best mansions are the ones that have chairs you can sit on in every room while the guide rambles.

>>2836716
My mom has never ever camped, never slept outside, she doesn't even pump her own gas (ever!).

My dad took me camping (at campgrounds admittedly) a few times when I was 6-7 and also took me on (hard - for my body 1000 vertical ft +) hikes as a little kids as well and now I hike alone because both my parents hate driving/hiking and I don't know anyone else irl.

>>2836757
>dad takes you hiking but hates it
???

WIldcamped for the first time
Dartmoor

>>2836564
Unreal!

Went blueberry picking (Alaskafag) about two miles from my house. Litty view of the sunrise as I made it up to my yearly picking spot

>>2836960
Beautiful mate

Wolf's tracks in Tuscany, Italy.

>>2836948
nice, you'll refine your setup and go more and more often

>>2836913
he took me hiking as a kid per his own initiative - not even sure how he found the trails - but as an adult he also took me hiking - at my initiative cuz it was his car and his money - and he would complain the entire time

Went for a short walk the other day and saw this cute guy

waterfalls are dry - send rain

>>2832932
Terminal case of simp. So fucked that I'm inclined to believe it's fake.

>>2836651
>good places
you can find joy hiking literally anywhere
my area is just fields
but you walk and look around and youll find a hedge or ditch or anything that stands out, go there, slip in, investigate, hang in the shade
I could do that all day
just go hike tool fallacy retard
>>2836107
so jelly, that's really nice
if there's bodies of water in my area it's either the tiniest of streams or standing water or a river used for shipping. And in all cases someone owns the fish and ot's up to 3 ywars in the slammer just taking some

Went to the island for the weekend.
Incoming photo dump.

>>2837052
yeah could definitely do with some refinement. Looking forward to the next one

Am outing. It came over me in the middle of the night.
It was the right choice.
It's raining a bit but it's summer so that doesn't matter and I did not realize I was pitching under an oak tree so there is slight bombardement.
10/10 really.

>>2836960
Went back this morning and found a friend

>>2838273
Same guy here, saw these two absolute units duke it out a bit and then sit down and vibe as the sun came out. Pic is a little potato quality as I had to align my phone through my binos to get it

>>2838416
>I had to align my phone through my binos to get it
you did a good job anon

>>2838421
Thanks fren

I just wrapped my weekend trip to Savage Gulf State Park. Initial hike descended about 800 feet over a mile, then carried on for 3.3 miles to the campsite. Primitive with a nearby spring for water access. Honestly, pretty kino. Had a cutie across from me, should've asked her for her number. Fuck.
Alcohol is clutch for camping. Cooking and fire starting, it does it all!

>>2838539
She wouldn't have said no. Because of the implication.

Been working on a trail through a burnt area found some cougar scratches on a tree, must have been chasing a squirrel or a bird.

>>2838562
Same trail, different area. I think these are black bear scratches.

Mt. Jefferson via Great Gulf, 6 Husbands and Sphinx trails. I've done Jefferson via castle and kings ravine and I don't think there's a single easy way up, these are all fairly challenging hikes.

Checked out the Emmons Glacier on the NE of MRNP. Couldn't quite top The Wedge due to a late start.

say this little dude as well. several actually during the whole hike

pine mountain

native mounds

>>2838878
>pine mountain
>no pine trees
what did they mean by this?

>>2838951
so, that's the story, on many (most?) high elevation (2500 ft +) eastern ridgelines - especially towards the south - every single tree was logged and doing so led to a chain of events (leaving wood scraps that were then set on fire by railroad sparks and lightning) that burned up the soil - and also the soil depended on the nutrients from the decomposing conifer needles - and so without those the fungal and bacterial profile changes and what grows back is much more deciduous-dominant as well as disturbed (lots of rugged heath bushes that probably wouldn't have been there)

you can still find pockets of untouched evergreens, but its mostly cove hemlocks - there's a few patches of ridgeline fir for instance in the endless mountains of PA on Bartlett Mountain but you have to ascend a very steep rugged hill to access them.

>>2838955
Interesting but sad tale. Is this new ecosystem better or worse or just different?

>>2838974
well, the tree part I think is just different, the issues are more about resistance to fire (much less, I walked over a bunch of charred stuff), and really, the biggest difference is the undergrowth, removing all the trees allows unwanted scrubby growth to rule areas and you get vines choking out everything else and the terrain becomes impassible except on groomed trails or roads, whereas if you see old growth areas you can kinda go where you please because there's a lot less shit clogging up the understory - mostly just saplings and wildflowers.
I do wonder if they could "convert" the forest back into a recreation of old growth by removing the thickets and pruning trees that are competing ineffectively

it also used to be a lot darker in the forest before logging - it lets way more light through to remove the tallest trees although deciduous trees do make for a shadier canopy than evergreen ones, and putting skid roads and railroads through it diverts all the little creeks so you get less water flowing through the creeks and rivers after logging and the drainage is less efficient when you do

>>2833820
Holy smokes that's beautiful.

>>2838955
It's gorgeous, though.