Thread 512977394

Paganism explains the problem of evil in a way that makes more sense than Christianity.
Evil cant exist in a reality with an all powerful, all good, all knowing god and yet Christians claim thats the case.

This cognitive dissonance bleeds into their political beliefs.
Would the political landscape look better if European paganism saw a renewal?

>>512977394 (OP)
>it can't because its just can't okay! even though God is all powerful it just cant!

>>512977394 (OP)
This assumes that God is controlling you like a puppet with your will being his will. Nowhere in Christianity does it say that God will strike you down on the spot if you do a crime.

>>512977394 (OP)
>I workshop gods who are merely part of creation and subject to nature's laws
Might as well just kill yourself

>>512977394 (OP)

>This cognitive dissonance bleeds into their political beliefs.

Theology struggled to fix that blatant category error for ... like how long now? The track record looks really sad. But it is a pathological symptom of these cargo cult systems. There are basic misunderstandings in basic terminology. Benevolence. Evil. Category errors. It is simply stupid! Shortsighted. Selfabsorbed. Rote learned helplessness. Sorry, what did you again try to reinvigorate? No religion or philosophy will do you any good when your students do not even get the very damn basics ... admission: I never liked conservatives. They just equally try to shove that banana up each other´s arses just like the so-called progressives. If you instead wanna revive old archetypes then please refer to my (alleged) Jungian streak. Adaption to the space age is ofc a sheer necessity here. We do not operate under cycles anymore if we intend to have any chance. Expansion.

End of line.

>>512977583
Yeah it could exist if he's all powerful. But not if he's also all good.

Pagans are halfwits. Evil or injustice is the transgression of the law. The Law is good. The fact that someone breaks the law does not negate the existence of a good, all-powerful God. In the end — which is soon ( a very short time for God ) — justice will be served.

>>512977394 (OP)
>Would the political landscape look better if European paganism saw a renewal?
not really possible anymore. caliber of the average person is too mediocre. caliber of the best people around also not good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYwo2MGWde0

>>512978555
trust the plan, retard. two more weeks.

>>512977394 (OP)
uhm akshually it's just a le test ok?
praise yhwh

Did you know that according to Godfrey Higgins, even in his day (the 1820's) Jews were promoting paganism over Christianity because they view Christianity as an overt rejection of Judaism, but view paganism as similar and amenable to being turned to Jewish purposes?

It's why our Jewish pagan shills like OP promote paganism, but being Jewish and not partaking direcly, can never actually tell you what paganism is the right kind. They don't know about paganism and they don't care, as long as you're not following Jesus Christ, you're Jew-approved.

Another issue with paganism, which pagan gods do you follow? Say you're a typical American euromutt with ancestors from here and there around Europe. All those European pagan gods were autocthonic, they were OF and FOR a specific tribe or group of tribes only. Their worship was not allowed to outsiders. Often all the details were kept so secret from outsiders that all we have are a couple accounts. So anyway which god do you choose? If you choose the wrong one as a mutt you're making a grave mistake, they don't WANT you lol.

TL;DR? Paganism is Jewish.

>>512977716
>only reference for god's law is from yids 2000 years ago
>all powerful god is incapable of telling you this himself

What's his @, nigger?

>>512977394 (OP)
"I created the evil inclination..." Theology is retarded

>>512978872
>Godfrey Higgins
Yeah I'm gonna believe some retarded amerimutt who says that all greek gods were niggers
lmao go eat shit faggot

>>512978767
>two more millennia.
FTFY

>>512978391

Category error of defining good as an absolute. Project timelines ... do the dead know good? Ignore false promises. Factor in full toolkit functionality. Override category errors. Srsly, grind them into the ground if unavoidable. :)

>>512978872
That's retarded. Pagan Rome was an older enemy of the jews than Christians were. Pagan Rome destroyed their temple and drove them from israel and persecuted them.

>>512978391
>quote directed at some vague Greek concept of a creator god and never intended for the Christian one which is much more concrete and specific
Try harder fuckhead

>>512977394 (OP)
European Folk Religion ("pagan" is a jewish slur) posits that the world is inherently flawed, and from that instability comes all things, good and evil. This also makes it possible for Free Will to exist since you choose to do good or you choose to do evil.

Free Will cannot exist in Abrahamic religion because an omnipotent creator god knows what you're going to do before you do it, and creates you to do that very thing. Which means everything is predetermined, including the suffering in your life. That also means he creates serial killers, rapists, and pedophiles. Therefore he cannot be "all loving." Which should be obvious anyway, since the common refrain of Abrahamics is that you either worship their cow demon or he'll torture you forever in a place from Greek Hellenic religion (which makes no sense, but nobody ever claimed Abrahamics were ideologically consistent).

>>512979228
It still applies. Please explain how jesus negates this argument?
The Bible still says the majority of people go to hell and narrow is the gate to salvation.
Why would an all good god create a reality where most people go to hell (infinite suffering) sounds kind of evil.

(((Christ))) is King!
...of the goodest goys
Matthew 15:26-28

>>512979147
absolutely fucking not retard
Pagan forced Christian to stop hanging jews and exile them
it's not because 1 or 2 Roman Emperor were good that it erase everything else they did
at the end of the Rome was responsible for everything
Roman Catholicism is just an extension and adaptation of the Roman Empire and whatever they did they responsible for it
not Christians

>>512979147
And jews, to this day, hate the Roman Empire. They go to the Arch of Titus just to flick it off. They also call for it to be destroyed, occasionally.

>>512977394 (OP)
I'm not christian but wouldn't it be more evil to take away everyones free will?
>Would the political landscape look better if European paganism saw a renewal?
Probably, depends a lot how astroturfed it is

>>512978391
>rebbit pic
epicurus never said this and never would have.
it's completely against his teachings since he believed in and taught about gods that didn't give a shit about human affairs.
putting his gay little marble bust in the image to lend it more credibility is funny.

the reason this trilemma gets attributed to epicurus is because a Christian writer named lactantius strawmanned epicurus before dismantling the argument in the next few sentences.
then, ~1500 years later, hume finds this paragraph and thinks it's amazing, so he plagiarizes it, keeping the false attribution but not bothering to point out lactantius' dismantling of it.
there are eleventy billion valid and sound theodicies and defenses for the problem of evil, so it's not like Christians don't have an answer for it, we actually have too many.

after the mackie vs plantinga dialogues, atheist philosophers all admit the logical formulation of the problem of evil is dead, and have instead moved onto emotional or evidentiary arguments, which are feewings and rhetoric rather than philosophical rigor.
catch up, internet gaytheists, you are 60 years behind academia.

>>512979346
>explain why of the world is round we don't all fall off
Fuck you you ignorant and disingenuous twat. Not only do you misrepresent the problem of evil from a theist perspective, you also outright ignore the literally thousands of times it has been answered in great detail by hundreds of world class philsopers and theologians over the centuries. The fact you even act like this a gotcha demonstrates your laziness and ignorance, especially when you quote a Greek who died 300 years before Christ was born as a definitive answer to a question he was never presented. His concept of God was what the Greeks imagined which has almost no resemblance to the Christian God. And it's doubtful he ever said it anyways as there's no direct quote of this paradox in his writings.

>>512979693
A literal handwave argument. Almost as bad as when people argue Yahweh is chaotic and therefore unknowable. Which the counter is always "Then why worship him?"

If a creator god creates evil just to see his creations suffer, he is evil too.

>>512977394 (OP)
What if the assumption that you need to worship something out of your control in the first place is faulty? There can be a god, and it may not need your explicit worship. Both can be true.

>>512978872
Christianity and judaism were competing schools in judea. Christianity allowed non-jews, judaism didn't. The seethe from jews has lasted centuries, and we'll never hear the end of it.

>>512979681
You can still have free will where people can choose between multiple goods.
Isn't that what heaven is supposed to be?
If there's no free will in heaven then whats the point of giving it to us here?
If free will Is necessary for ultimate good then why would there be no free will in heaven?

>>512979693
I love how Christians say the problem of evil has been deboonked yet they never say how. Just assertions that it has been. (Which it hasn't)

>>512979845
>If a creator god creates evil just to see his creations suffer, he is evil too.
>if I completely misrepresent the issue I can extrapolate whatever I want from it
Stop being a dishonest cunt

lmao it's a white talking about sex with children, AGAIN. can whites even think about anything but sex with children?

surely others have noticed that if you go to a forum with white people, especially conservatives, they will continually bring up sex with children. pretty crazy. it's all they think about.

is a white person outside? put your kids inside.

>>512980015
You should stop wasting your time arguing with idiots

>>512980015
My conclusion was completely logical.
Yours was coping and seething.

>>512980067
Agreed, that's why I filter you people whenever you fail to say anything of substance. Just like the aforementioned jeet. And now you.

>>512979845
your reply assumes God "creates evil just to see his creations suffer,"
but no major theistic tradition teaches this.
classical theism (aquinas) argues evil is a privation of good, not a substance God "creates."
even the free will defense doesn’t claim God desires suffering, it argues that permitting evil is a necessary condition for greater goods (like moral freedom).

also, the "why worship him?" rebuttal only works if you assume morality is independent of God (which theists deny).
if God is the ground of goodness, calling Him evil is category error.

>>512978872
>paganism is jewish
>but existed before jews
>and abraham
What we know as judaism came about as reaction to christianity, and they both came from the same source, and they are both foreign pollutants to Europeans.

>>512977394 (OP)

It goes both ways. There's no point in pointing out hypocrisy to people thatre full blown brainwashed. A lot of them are repenting for being horrible people that would be better off making society better by rope.

So yeah, not a pill you want to force them into swallowing.

Not all corruption is bad either. I'd rather give power to someone that knows all the fucked up shit and how to get their hands dirty. With the caveat that they're signing away their reputation and letting someone else write their entire story. They often make this deal (it's the devil's contract for the soul).

>>512980077
Lol. God doesn't create evil and is incapable of doing so by definition. The entire foundation of your argument is impossible. I'm going to take >>512980067 advice and let this be my last (you). Educate yourself before you embarrass yourself.

>>512979962
Thats not really free will tho, I dont know what goes on in heaven to be honest or what christians think goes on in there

>>512980122
Again, this is just a handwave. If he's truly "all-powerful" and "all-loving", then he wouldn't create evil, and certainly not for something as absurd as teaching some kind of esoteric lesson. If he's a perfect being with perfect knowledge, then he'd create perfect creations. Otherwise he's just a kid smashing cars together. There's no arguing out of this.

Omnipotent
Creator
All-loving

Pick two.

>>512980196
>god is all powerful
>god is incapable of creating evil

>>512977394 (OP)
>Raiding, pillaging, raping and destroying books because you still carve rocks like cavemen is based

>>512980386
You can't expect logical consistency from people with 80 IQs.

>>512979806
Describe heaven without Platonism

>>512980122
1)if evil was just the absence of God's rule. That means that there is something that exists outside of God and his power.

2) if permitting evil is necessary for greater goods then that means there must be evil in heaven since heaven is the "ultimate good". This also doesn't explain gratuitous suffering. Suffering that happens that could easily have been prevented and is unnecessary. Like a deer slowly burning to death in a forest fire.

All of the explanations are not convincing.

>>512977394 (OP)
I agree, the problem of evil is by far the weakest link in the chain of christian theology. They try very hard to come up with justification for why a supposedly omnipotent, omniscient, all good god would require evil to exist in the physical world. There just isn't an answer that doesn't either limit god's power (heresy) or prove that god isn't all good (heresy).

The only branch of christianity that interests me is gnosticism, because it actually does try to build a coherent theology that explains why evil in the physical world exists. Paganism, like you said already, doesn't have to come up with bizarre explanations for evil, since pagans freely admit that the gods and inscrutable and capricious.

>>512980386
>can God mircrowave a burrito so hot he himself cannot eat it
with God all things are possible. A gibberish question that is self contradictory isn't a thing. It's a nonsense and therefore cannot be attributed to God. His nature is one of absolute pure goodness and only goodness can flow from him. Evil by contrast is defined by a Christian as the absence of God. So your statement basically boils down to
>could God create something not of God
Which is nonsense

>>512977394 (OP)
How can you define "evil" without defining good first?

>>512978694
Paganism always ends up with idiots inventing gods.

>>512977394 (OP)
>Evil cant exist in a reality with an all powerful, all good, all knowing god and yet Christians claim thats the case.
How so? Evil existing is not opposite to the idea of God being all good and all powerful.

>>512977394 (OP)
Christianity is already merged with european paganism, and christianity already tackles evil the same way most religious frameworks around the world do. Problem is people usually get an exoteric watered down model that's easily digestible by even the most retarded sheep and it usually keeps things fairly dualistic even though every religion revolves around a non-dualistic ineffable core, God. And in christianity God is the origin of evil.

>>512978391
>Yeah it could exist if he's all powerful. But not if he's also all good.
Wrong. You are not evil just because you don't want to prevent evil, this is clearly a fallacy. I am not guilty of doing evil if I don't save someone from drowning.

>>512980755
If you know an evil thing will happen and you do nothing to stop it even though you could. Would you be a perfect person?

>>512980366
your pick two trilemma assumes what it needs to prove, that an all-powerful all-loving God cannot have morally sufficient reasons to permit evil, but that's the whole debate.
theistic defenses (plantinga, aquinas, swinburne) argue that greater goods (free will, moral growth, soul making) require the possibility of evil.
you can reject those defenses, but you can't just assert they're impossible without engaging them.

what does "perfect creations" even mean? if it means robots who can't choose evil, then you're rejecting free will. if it means free beings who never choose evil, that's logically impossible like a married bachelor. even an omnipotent God can't create contradictions.
virtues like compassion or bravery only exist in a world with suffering. a "perfect" world without any challenges would be morally stagnant, no growth, no love, just static bliss. is that really perfect?

calling God a kid smashing cars is pure rhetoric, not argument. classical theism doesn't claim God creates evil for fun, it argues evil is a privation (a lack of good, like blindness is a lack of sight) and that God permits it only insofar as it serves greater goods (free will, redemption)
if you want to argue those goods aren't worth the cost, that's fine, but then you're debating preferences, not logic.

>>512980366
The whole argument is assuming "evil" is an actual defined thing. But evil was always a point of view type of thing. Sometimes on an indivudual level, sometimes group level. There can absolutely be a god, and god would not value you more than a rock in space. Why would it? You are part of it alive or dead. This is why you should worship minor gods, like jesus, satan or even hitler. Because they have more immediate agency and are more ego driven, closer ro us. Build a church to hitler. We have done that for thousands of years. Christiany has saints too lol.

>>512980780
Right.
Pan is dead or so Christians want.
Pointing this out refutes Christianity because they have to admit Pegan gods ruled before Jesus.
Christianity is simplified religion for midwits to understand concepts like chaos.

>>512980956
You literally just described the concept of a personal God. What makes Christianity distinct from other creator gods of its day, or even our day, is the idea that God isn't some distant force that created everything and otherwise is hands off but that he's an active mind that has purposes and desires and knows and cares about you personally. It's why the Hindus or Greeks might use the word God but mean something entirely different.

>>512980898
>If you know an evil thing will happen and you do nothing to stop it even though you could. Would you be a perfect person?
Absolutely. I am not guilty for not saving someone from drowning, especially if that person is an assassin, or a cheater.

I used to post the same image, and repeat the same things, but I just realized it's stupid.

God has no obligation of saving everyone, and he doesn't want to save everyone. Most Christians think he wants because of mistranslations in the Bible, if you read in Koine Greek, you will absolutely understand this paradox. I would say that Calvinist are closer to the real meaning than most "sects", but they are still wrong in many other topics.

>>512980914
That argument only makes sense under the assumption that all evil has a purpose. But lots of evil shit happens and no one ever learns or grows from it. So why would god allow that to happen? A perfect all loving god would not allow any more suffering than is necessary for people to learn things.
For instance
A serial killer murders a woman in the forest and he gets away with it and no one ever finds her or the killer. No one ever knows she went missing.
Whats the point of that. I guarantee you its happened more than once in history.
A perfect all loving god would not permit any more evil than is absolutely necessary.

>>512980500
I think people are sometimes too afraid to say I dont know, I also think its fairly reasonable to assume we have loads of variables we are missing from the puzzle that is the existance of the universe and how it all works and came to be, I'm open to explanations as to why all powerful god cant create evil tho
>>512980657
Interesting way of looking at it but I'm not sure I fully understand what it means, to me it seems quite paradoxical

>>512977394 (OP)
I think the lessons nature also teach us that duality is a universal constant and evil is a force the same as good, that must be met with extreme prejudice

>>512978555
law is subjective to morals. You dont need a kike to make antisemitism laws to know youre right over target.

Hitler himself said that the Christianity question was best left until after they achieved what they wanted. So I have to question the motives of someone who really wants to keep talking about it before we deal with other, bigger problems. But let's play along, shall we? You can be a Christian and understand that Jews have successfully subverted sects of your religion. For example, there are evangelicals in America that are ardent Zionists who will go work in Israel for free or go fight their wars with great enthusiasm because their particular sect was subverted quite successfully to interpret the Bible in such a way that's very beneficial for Zionist Jews.

There is a lot of cuckery in modern versions of Christianity. Perhaps the most subversive and popular one is "thou shallt not kill". Which retards think means you should be a passive cuck and never kill anyone. It's taken to an extreme in Quakerism and other sects like it. But the original translation was murder. Don't murder. If you kill someone in self defence, that's not murder. But the Jews in power would rather you were completely passive and never resisted evil. You are supposed to resist evil. How do you think we got into this mess in the first place? There's been a lot of cowardice in the past several decades, that's why things keep getting worse.

>>512980552
>if evil is just the absence of God’s rule, then something exists outside God’s power.
evil as "absence of God's rule" doesn't imply a realm outside His power. it means evil arises when creatures misuse their God-given freedom. God permits this within His sovereign plan, not because He's powerless.
think of it like a parent allowing a child to make mistakes, the parent could override every choice but that would destroy the child's moral agency.

>if evil is necessary for greater goods, heaven must have evil.
heaven isn’t "good plus evil," it’s the realization of a world where free beings, having been tested, irrevocably choose good.
just as a healed wound leaves a scar but no ongoing pain, heaven retains the memory of evil (Christ’s wounds for example) without its active presence.
this is why theologians like augustine called evil a "twisted good," it’s temporary, not eternal

>animal suffering
this is actually outside of what we're discussing. i'll admit the evidentiary (not logical) argument of gratuitous animal suffering is not dead like the logical problem of suffering is, and people are still debating about it.
i'm not really equipped to pretend to care about animals being hurt and will just punt to "skeptical theism."

>>512981209
>he's an active mind that has purposes and desires and knows and cares about you personally
Why do you think that? To me it sounds kinda arrogant to assume the literal creator of the universe and the guy who set the rules of how everything in existance works cares about you personally?

>>512981209
Wouldn't that god also care about minor "gods" like satan? What about epstein? Does christian god love epstein?

>>512981285
>I'm a willingly obtuse retard
Just stop man, holy shit
>>512981303
The issue is that you're using words basically incorrectly. The ability to put a question mark at the end of a string of words does not a genuine question make
>what does yellow taste like?
>how does fast tomorrow bring?
these aren't questions, mere gibberish. Same thing here. Prefacing a contradiction with "God can" doesn't make it so. A mutually exclusive proposition remains as impossible for God as for anyone else. To a Christian the word God and good are the same word and evil is something that's been created not by God.
>God can create something not created by God
is mutually exclusive. It can't be both same as you can't be free but also not free. It's one or the other and that remains as true for him as it would be for us.

The only requirement to be under Satan's rule is to reject Christ. All the world's religions are under Satan's rule, because this world is temporarily under his authority.

>>512981724
sounds jewish

>>512981856
>sounds jewish
Jews reject Jesus

>>512981591
It's the basis of Christianity. Whether you accept it not doesn't change that that is what is believed to be true. Hence why God went out of his way to forgive our debt. Gravity, a mindless force, can't decide to forgive you for violating its rules. But God can because he wishes to and is able to
>>512981688
This is a really stupid question to he honest and is answered by the even the most basic Christian doctrines that any child would know.

>>512979288
Knowledge isn’t causal retard.

>>512982019
>It's the basis of Christianity
No it's not. This is the basis of Catholicism and Orthodoxy, which are sects that deviated from what it's in the Bible. The Bible is pretty clear about predestination and God only loving SOME people, and only caring about SOME people.

>>512982109
Cease your heresy please and thank you.

>>512982019
Well, kudos to you for saying yes.

>>512982212
Seems like you already knew the answer, so why the stupid gotcha question?

>>512981285
this again has shifts away from the logical problem of evil (it is impossible for evil and a loving all powerful all knowing god to exist, here's why dadadada) to the evidential problem (would god really allow THIS MUCH evil? i don't feel so.)
and i again acknowledge this is still a live argument within academia, but let's pick your post apart anyway.

>unseen evil (serial killer)
you assume no one learns/grows from it, but that's unknowable. the victim's private prayers, the killer's eventual conscience, or ripple effects on other (a hiker who later changes paths) could have unseen significance.

skeptical theism i brought up earlier is basically: "if God exists, His knowledge dwarfs ours. declaring any evil "pointless" is like a 2 year old judging a parent's rules, they lack the context to assess it" and dunks on what you're saying.

>no more suffering than necessary
this assumes suffering is quantifiable, like a recipe (3 cups of evil = just enough learning) but in a world with free will and natural laws, preventing all "unnecessary" evil would require constant miracles, undermining the regularity needed for moral choices (if God stopped every murder, we'd live in a puppet universe)
some evils may be side effects of systemic goods (a world where fires can't burn deer also couldn't sustain ecosystems)
your hidden premise here is that you demand God meet your standard of permissible evil, but if God is the ground of morality, he defines what's necessary, not our limited intuition.

again, this line of reasoning is not arguing against theism's logic (which allows for gratuitous SEEMING evil) but claiming God's values don't match yours. that's a debate about moral expectations rather than disproving God.

>>512981718
>A mutually exclusive proposition remains as impossible for God as for anyone else
So being all powerful has limits then, I have heard christians say that nothing is impossible to god too
>The issue is that you're using words basically incorrectly.
Maybe I am, to me all powerful means that there are no limitations, even things beyond your imagination such as how does yellow taste like are possible to answer if you are all powerful, maybe god has access to senses that can taste the color yellow, even some people claim to have the ability to taste or smell color
>To a Christian the word God and good are the same word and evil is something that's been created not by God
In the bible it says that lying cant be considered a moral good but god does lie to Abraham that he needs him to sacrifice his son just to see if he would do it, I think it was Abraham, it has been a while since I read the bible

>>512982392
If you truly believe in god, and in good faith I am honest, you probably should not doubt him. Not saying it means you either doubt god or you're afraid to go against the /pol groupthink, which isn't great either. Why fear pol so much so to be hesitant about your belief. But move on

>>512982192
>Cease your heresy
Heresy?

[When you are born, do you chose to be born? Well, a pharisee called Nicodemus wanted to know how to be saved, and Jesus answered by telling him to be born again. How can a person be born again? They can't, they can't choose to be born again, it comes from the spirit, and the spirit of God will do as he pleases]

John 3:1-9
Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

[But for you, is heresy, because you are a fool, you are not born of the spirit, the things of the spirit are foolish to you]

1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

>>512978555
God created evil

>>512982784
>God created evil
God allowed evil. It's different.

>>512982832
have a response to Isaiah 45:7 (kjv) typed up and ready

>>512981058
It's not about that, christianity by itself already covers all the bases, it's the simplified dumbed down wrapper that doesn't. And that's what people are fed, the exoteric version of the religion.

There is a portion of syncretization in every religion known today. It's not about "which god ruled first" they're all the same god/s and principles expressed through different frameworks. For example the kabbalistic schematics are a blatant copy of the daoist ones. The holy spirit is a reinterpretation of ruach, the christian charis or "grace" is a reinterpretation of daoist "qi", the taboric light is the daoist "shen". Daoism and hinduism have heavily influenced semitic shit even before christianity absorbed and digested european paganism.

>>512977394 (OP)
Lot's of pagan divide and conquer threads as of late, wonder why...

>>512982019
Yeah but whats the rationale behind it, you just believe it? Why is that the basis of christianity? To me it seems more logical what the huebro said but I definetly at the same time dont claim to understand even a fraction about what god does and why

>>512982654
Look if you're struggling with basic logic and first principles I suggest you learn them first before moving into more difficult subjects . An impossibility does not become possible simply by saying "God can". He cannot resolve a self contradiction just because you think he should. With God all THINGS are possible. Non things are not things and therefore not possible. Yes banana I yesterday tomorrow? Isn't a question with an answer. It's not a question at all, mere noise.
>god does lie to Abraham that he needs him to sacrifice his son just to see if he would do it, I think it was Abraham, it has been a while since I read the bible
He never lied and said I need you to. He commanded him to and then stopped him. That's a huge difference.
>>512982680
So you were testing my conviction rather than throwing a gotcha. I can understand that even if I don't necessarily appreciate it. Jesus came to forgive sinners and the worse the sinner the more relevant this becomes.
>>512982694
picrel. I do not wish to debate you on your ramblings so you can save your self some time by not bothering further.

>>512982968
>have a response to Isaiah 45:7 (kjv) typed up and ready
Darkness doesn't mean evil, and disaster is not necessarily something bad.

Darkness, can mean a lot of things, for example, it can mean "second death", which is the punishment of the wicked. They will cease to exists (not burn forever), Matthew 8:12, 22:13, and 25:30

Disaster means what it means. A disaster is not necessarily bad. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah, people were so wicked they gang raped travelers and tried raping angels. I don't think that the disaster it happened wiping them from Earth was evil.

>>512983120
The concept of the personal God is well established and I don't have the patience to type entire ecumenical councils at you. If you're genuinely curious a short google search can explain it. But that guy is merely rewording early heresies that those councils were specifically trying to answer. He and I cannot reach any form of reconciliation of our beliefs and which side you take here and now is of little concern to me. I didn't enter this thread to engage his gnosticism

>>512983390
>picrel. I do not wish to debate you on your ramblings so you can save your self some time by not bothering further.
The only thing you can do is run away with your tail between your legs. About pic related? The one who thinks to know more than the apostle is (you) and your false teachers (that will burn in hell before being destroyed by the way). Because this is what Paul said:

Ephesians 1:4–5, 11

For he CHOSE USE IN HIM BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
…
In him WE WERE ALSO CHOSEN, having been PREDESTINED according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.

Romans 8:29–30
For those God FOREKNEW he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

[But to you the Bible is false, because you don't believe in God, KEEP LARPING AS A CHRISTIAN]

>>512983390
You are implying that our understanding of logic and principles is so vast that we can decipher what is possible and what isn't possible to god, I think thats an assumption you are making on the basis of hubris, kinda like the allegory of the cave, I think its fairly obvious we dont fully understand the reality we inhabit and I think its fairly obvious god does not play by the same rules as we do
>Yes banana I yesterday tomorrow?
What yellow tastes like seems like a much more plausibly possible question to make than that, these things exist on a spectrum imo
>He never lied and said I need you to. He commanded him to and then stopped him. That's a huge difference.
Sure, makes sense

>>512983628
Its an interesting topic, I'm definetly looking into that sometime to understand catholicism better

>>512983961
>I reject your axiom
And that's where discussion must end I'm afraid. Good luck with your journey friend, at least you were fun to engage with.

>>512983390
what's interesting about your back and forth with our brazilian brother is that st. augustine would've agreed with him on predestination and Jesus dying only for the elect.

>>512984234
Ok?

Pseud thread

>>512984279
therefore, the
>HERESY: THAT SPECIAL MOMENT WHEN
>YOU HAVE GREATER SPIRITUAL INSIGHT THAT THE APOSTLES, DICIPLES, APOSTOLIC FATHERS, THE CHURCH, AND THE MAGESTERIUM BECAUSE YOU HAVE A BIBLE THAT THEY WROTE, COMPILED AND GAVE YOU
meme was silly to employ, since st. augustine is one of the greatest doctors of the church and you're arguing against his position.

>>512984136
To you aswel, thanks for explaining things from your pov, gave me a bunch of things to think about

>>512984472
He wasn't the only church father, nor is this belief considered doctrine for a reason.

>>512977394 (OP)

Explain it then. Explain to me how paganism is clear and coherent in its teachings about good and evil.

>>512984279
>Ok?
Ok? You can't say Jesus died for everyone dude. This is a contradiction, literally. If God loved *EVERYBODY* and gave his life for *EVERYBODY* than *EVERYBODY* is saved. The blood of Jesus is not an attempt of paying for someone's ransom. It ultimately PAID. All this wrong interpretation you're coming from it's because you think κόσμος (kósmos) means every single person who ever existed. This is so contradicting... Because if this is true, in some passages God says every single person in the entire world is condemned, and in others, every single person who ever existed is saved.

>>512977394 (OP)
>But, although all is in Wralda, the wickedness of mankind is not of him. Wickedness comes from sloth, heedlessness, and stupidity. Therefore, it can harm the people, but never Wralda. Wralda is wisdom, and the eawa that he established are the books from which we can learn. No wisdom can be found or gathered outside of them.

God is good.
God gave you free will.
Doing God's work and following his will is doing good (by definition because God=good).
Rebelling against God is doing evil( because God=good, ergo not-God=evil).
Doing evil is sin.
Sin (=evil) is rewarded with death.
Simple as.
Follow God and be good, or don't follow God and be evil.
The only way to be forgiven for having done evil is to follow Jesus, and repent (turn away from) your sins and better yourself.
As a side note, there is no human who hasn't sinned, so all humans need Jesus, according to Christianity.

It's really not complicated, how are you guys not understanding this? Are you misrepresenting Christian theology on purpose?

Also a reminder that Rabbinic Jews will be denied before the Father for denying Jesus.

>>512984696
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_universalism
Yes thank you. You seem to be a professional at self contradictions. Last (you) from me. Goodness.

>>512984913
The page of the wiki, doesn't address any of my points.

By the way, your attempt at shutting down conversation, and labeling me a heretic, just proves my point. You don't know what you're talking about, and you are compromised, not with the truth.

>>512984913
By the way, Universalism is false, you can't believe universalism when the bible is very clear that SOME people will be sent to hell, and the antichrist will be sent to the lake of fire, and partake on the second death.

>>512984913
At this point, tear up your bible and declare yourself an atheist, LOL

>>512985031
I'll bite. What point? You started by saying God wasn't a personal God, which is an objective heresy that is contradicted by the Bible itself throughout. Then you constantly rant and rave in one post about how forgiveness is preordained and incredibly limited, in the next you say everyone will get it. You call out the church and it's doctrines while quoting
the Bible they compiled and gave to you, dishonesty I might add considering the passages you quote and the ones you ignored. I've not engaged you because there is nothing to engage. You outright reject foundational doctrines that I hold and then are upset I make no attempt to convince you of something you explicitly told me you won't he convinced of. What the fuck am I supposed to do here? Endlessly debate with you to no purpose? Why would I do such a thing?

>>512980862
>You are not evil just because you don't want to prevent evi
If a baby is about to be violently raped and murdered directly in front of you, and you have the full power to effortlessly stop it at zero risk to yourself, and you DON'T and you WATCH ALL THAT EVIL SHIT HAPPEN- then you are evil

That's what God does each and every day

God is evil

>>512985148
Thanks for proving my point. Fuck I should have known better than to let you distract me.

>>512977394 (OP)
Dual Seedline Christian Identity is the true racialist religion. Kikes like promoting paganism because it is antichrist.

>>512977394 (OP)
Evil in christianity is defined as the absence of good or the absence of God, it has no ontology.
You commit evil when you move away from God, his commandments and his energies.
> b-b-but the devil
The devil tempts, its up to you to go to him and away from God.

>>512985426
>You started by saying God wasn't a personal God
I never said that. Mark ONE comment I said that. you are misrepresenting my comment, if you want to argue, go back to my comments and read.

>>512985448
Nop, God has no obligation neither do I of trying to prevent all bad things from happening. Now, if he did something to prevent, and If I did something to prevent that (which I would), it would be by mercy.

>>512985561
Paganism is inclusive and queer these days.

>>512985539
You are a complete coward, LMAO

You didn't address a single point I made, and declared victory by using personal attacks each time. Dude, who are you trying to lie to? Yourself? You clearly don't care about the truth, otherwise you would make an effort into at least reading.

Odin was Jewish. He was a Jewish rabbi or sorcerer.

>>512985609
>It's (God being a personal God) the basis of Christianity
>No it's not. This is the basis of Catholicism and Orthodoxy, which are sects that deviated from what it's in the Bible.
Dishonest cunt. I'm done with you for real this time.

>>512977394 (OP)
>Problem of evil.
No such thing.

>>512985561
The problem with this is that its not true, we aren't lost tribes of Israel

>>512985829
it's a problem for atheism

p1: atheism entails naturalism (no supernatural or transcendent moral order)
p2: naturalism cannot account for objective evil
p3: objective evil exists
c: therefore, atheism is false

>>512985813
>Dishonest cunt. I'm done with you for real this time.
Lok at your language, clearly not saved, as you don't have the fruits of the spirit.


>It's (God being a personal God) the basis of Christianity
Also, everything that is in parenthesis was added by you.

>>512977394 (OP)
Christianity literally says jews are evil

>>512985609
>God has no obligation neither do I of trying to prevent all bad things from happening
God could effortlessly prevent all evil with the barest portion of his will, yet he chooses not to. He could have prevented ever single child from being raped and yet he watches and chooses not to protect children. He is evil

The laws of man hold humans responsible for their creations. If a man breeds pitbulls and one bites someone the man is held responsible

You hold the all-powerful, all-knowing Creator less responsible for his creations than you hold mortal men for theirs

An all-good God cannot watch children be murdered and do nothing. Only an amoral or evil God could

>>512977394 (OP)
there's a reason paganism died out

>>512977394 (OP)
>>512978391
>>512985448
Questions that make athiests cope and seethe:
>where in the Bible does it even say that God is 'all good' or rather ONLY all good?
>How could the Creator of literally all of reality be ONLY one thing and not another thing that also exists within reality that He Himself literally created?
>why SHOULDN'T God be not wholly good or allow evil? what, just because you say so?
>why do humans get to decide and dictate the standards by which God is held to anyway? He's literally God
>why even be mad about God allowing evil or even doing actions you consider evil when he can literally just nullify and retcon all evil out of existence at any moment, such as bringing everyone who ever died back to life or giving people who suffered an INFINITY of perfect existence afterwards - something He literally says He is going to do anyway?

Here's what the Bible does say
>Lamentations 3:37-39
>Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? Do not both adversity and good come from the mouth of the Most High? Why should any mortal man complain, in view of his sins?
>Isaiah 46:10
>I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’
Crying about muh problem of evil is something that the OG YHWH worshippers never even thought about because they took it for granted that even evil and suffering is attributed to the Creator by default. Better start praying nigga.

>>512986073
>I can tell who's been saved and not
Literally the most heretical thing you've said and that's quite a bar
>you added the parenthesis
No shit, did you try reading the reply chain? Now I can't tell if you're being dishonest or are just that stupid that you didn't even know what you were replying to this entire time. Fuck sakes.

>>512985813
I'll draw so you understand.

>>512981591
>he's an active mind that has purposes and desires and knows and CARES ABOUT YOU PERSONALLY

You answered:

>>512982019
>It's the basis of Christianity

I said:

>512982109
>No it's not. This is the basis of Catholicism and Orthodoxy, which are sects that deviated from what it's in the Bible. The Bible is pretty clear about predestination and God only loving SOME people, and only caring about SOME people.

GOD DOES NOT LOVE EVERY SINGLE PERSON AND CARES FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT EXISTED. THIS IS STUPID, AND A MODERN CATHOLIC DOCTRINE

>>512986041
you can't point to a single (1) instance of objective evil
atheism is true

>>512986160
>God can prevent evil
>He does not prevent evil
>So he is evil
I already said mate. He is not evil, and that's not how it works.

>You can sell all your possessions and build wells for African kids preventing their deaths
Wait, why are you not doing that yet? You are evil men, this is clearly in your reach. You are so damn evil, LMAO

You can help or not, by mercy, but you have no obligation, these people are not extensions of (you).

>>512986292
So, like I said you outright reject what I believe and are continuing to be angry that I don't try and convince you. I don't understand what your point is here my retarded heretical friend other than you want to be angry at me and feel superior for whatever reason. It's telling that you've spent more time trying to drag me into some idiot debate with you than you've spend discussing the original point of the thread with anyone else.

>>512986208
What christians call paganism is basically everything outside of Christianity, Islam and Judaism, its not dead

>>512986276
>>I can tell who's been saved and not
>Literally the most heretical thing you've said and that's quite a bar
Yeah? So why don't you say this to Jesus? I may not be able to judge if some normal Christian walking around is saved or not, as said in the parable of wheat and shaft, but I clearly can understand when someone that claims to be a Christian, is in fact a false teacher, and thus, is not saved

Matthew 7:15–20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.”

[Your fruits are bad and rotten.]

>>512986536
>So, like I said you outright reject what I believe and are continuing to be angry
I am the angry one? You called me heretic by quoting what's in the Bible (predestination of the saints). Then you cursed at me multiple times, and I am the one angry, alright.

>>512986241
>Crying about muh problem of evil is something that the OG YHWH worshippers never even thought about because they took it for granted that even evil and suffering is attributed to the Creator by default
You're correct. Obviously the One is both good and evil. He is the fountain of all things

>>512986426
>Wait, why are you not doing that yet? You are evil men, this is clearly in your reach. You are so damn evil, LMAO
God can save all innocent beings with zero effort at zero risk or cost to himself. I am already doing the greatest good where I can. Destroying myself to save randoms I've never laid eyes on is completely different from an omnipotent God saving people he personally knows and watches at zero cost to himself

>You can help or not, by mercy, but you have no obligation, these people are not extensions of (you)
Why is God at zero obligation to help his creations? He's objectively worse than the average pitbull breeder is to their dogs

>>512986375
>heh, i'm a psychopath
that's actually unironically a powerful rebuttal that i can't defend against.
most people (even atheists) affirm p3 and recognize actual objective evil exists though.
i could lazily defend p1 and p2, but if i can't get you to admit that eating a live screaming baby is evil the argument collapses.

>>512986727
>Why is God at zero obligation to help his creations?
Why does he has any obligation? He doesn't. I bet that from your salary, you store some cash into your account, why don't you save African kids by using that money? There's no obligation to do that, if you did, that would be charity. God does not need to help everybody, neither will he.

>>512986788
yeah like I said they probably were into that kind of shit in mesoamerican civs like the incas and shit
glad that I could be of help

>>512986886
>God does not need to help everybody, neither will he
I agree, because God is both good and evil

We need a Pagan-Christian-Buddhist revival

>>512986937
>I agree, because God is both good and evil
Could you expand on that?

>>512986913
>yeah like I said they probably were into that kind of shit in mesoamerican civs like the incas and shit
oh sweetie, you are very confused.
you're conflating moral ontology with moral epistemology.
what's meant by "objective evil" in this context has nothing to do with whether or not people agree to it universally or at all, it's the opposite.
objeclive in this context means true or false mind-independently.

so now that you understand a bit better, would you still say eating a live screaming baby is not objectively evil?

>>512986375
If I'm a sadist and torture you for no other reason than my pleasure is it not objectively evil?

>>512977394 (OP)
Modern paganism can’t defend itself from the Jew any better than Christianity can. There’re fags and blacks in the “Norse pagan” community so I doubt you could do much in the modern day with it. Unless it was some esoteric version of paganism that allowed a guru to reject people.

>>512977394 (OP)
Paganism does not even consider homosexuality evil.

>>512987047
God is the fountainhead of the universe. The creator of all things. He is omniscient and knew every single event that would ever happen before he created the universe, meaning he is directly responsible for all things that will ever occur- both good and evil

In short, God knew X Y and Z would happen before making the universe, so he is directly responsible for X Y and Z

>>512987118
>>512987133
Paganism is not a faith, its a descriptive term used by christians to say these people are not christians, jews or muslims

>>512987010
I’ve thought this myself actually. There’s a lot to each tradition that I think could strengthen the others, I’m surprised a syncretic theology hasn’t already popped up.

>>512977394 (OP)
ᚺ Hail, before you die remember to kill as many enemies of man as possible. Do not make peace with evil, destroy it.

Yids rape kids, death to jews.

>>512987133
yes it does. it considers it worthy of death.
christianity does not promise the extermination of homosexuals, it promises their redemption

>>512987353
Ok you fucking pedant, go play in the corner with your crayons. You understand colloquialisms don’t you? If you don’t you shouldn’t be here.

>>512987362
I would argue it is already emerging, and has been since paganism and christianity first came in contact. perhaps it will take another 2000 years, but by the end there will be some kind of synthesis between the thesis of paganism and the antithesis of christianity

>>512987423
Well no I do not, there is no such faith as paganism, you can be talking about hindus or some african dude in a leopard cape, colloquialisms are figures of speech that make things easier to understand not harder, when people say ''paganism'' as if its a single religion with doctrines and temples I always wonder what the fuck are they talking about

>>512987634
I would argue you possibly already have this with Hinduism though. Possibly what we’re both thinking is a more euro-centric version of Hinduism. Christianity and Christ could still fit inside that framework I think.

>>512977394 (OP)
I would agree but
Where does the bible say that God is all loving? All knowing, All powerful?

Are all of these explicitly stated?

>>512987717
Ok retard. Please leave this thread, you are too stupid to be here.

>>512987634
>some kind of synthesis between the thesis of paganism and the antithesis of christianity
i'd argue that that's catholicism (and make the papists mad at me)

"paganism":
>immanent, nature-centric, polytheistic
Christianity:
>transcendent, dogma-centric, monotheistic
catholicism's ability to hold both immanence (sacraments, materiality, relics) and transcendence (universal theology) does resemble a hegelian synthesis.
protestantism by contrast rebelled against the pagan remnants (iconoclasm, rejection of saint veneration, antisacerdotalism)

>>512988075
>t. guy who thinks we need a buddhist - christian - pagan revival
>revival
You have no idea what half the words you say even mean

>>512977394 (OP)
Pagans have no concept of evil you moron, everyone is a morally ambiguous prick.

>>512988524
Ok retard. Why don’t you color me a picture with your crayons, I’ll put it on the fridge.

>>512987383
Fagan gods are chill on gay sex

>>512977394 (OP)
God created the good and the evil so we can learn to love

>>512977394 (OP)
Larpagan bots are out in full force today

>>512988036
>Are all of these explicitly stated?
kind of, not with the exact words though typically.
for "all-powerful" we have
>“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God—the one who is, and who was, and who is still to come—the All-Powerful! (Revelation 1:8)
>Each one of the four living creatures had six wings and was full of eyes all around and inside. They never rest day or night, saying: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the All-Powerful, who was, and who is, and who is still to come!” (Revelation 4:8)
>“We give you thanks, Lord God, the All-Powerful, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun to reign.” (Revelation 11:17)
>They sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb: “Great and astounding are your deeds, Lord God, the All-Powerful! Just and true are your ways, King over the nations!” (Revelation 15:3)
>Then I heard the altar reply, “Yes, Lord God, the All-Powerful, your judgments are true and just!” (Revelation 16:7)
>Now I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God—the All-Powerful—and the Lamb are its temple. (Revelation 21:22)
this is NET translation.
a lot of translations render this as just "almighty"
the greek word being used here is pantokrator, pan meaning "all" and kratos meaning "power" and the t is just part of the stem for pan and the o is a thematic vowel.
it's the greek equivalent for the latin omnipotence.

i guess the best for "all-knowing" would be
>Remember what I accomplished in antiquity. Truly I am God, I have no peer; I am God, and there is none like me, who announces the end from the beginning and reveals beforehand what has not yet occurred; who says, ‘My plan will be realized, I will accomplish what I desire;’ (Isaiah 46 9-10)

i guess for God being all-loving would be
>The person who does not love does not know God because God is love. (1 John 4:8)

>>512988697
written by a jew named david greenberg. not substantiated by any of the sagas or eddas. he also makes claims that Jesus was a sodomite.
>>512988035
hinduism is valuable for any white mans religious studies, but it is flawed for a number of reasons. for one its a blanket term for about 1000 different religions. and some of those religions are more aryan than others. shaivism has some interesting imagery and concepts, but I wholely and hardheartedly disagree with their conception of holiness as encompassing all things, including the unholy. something that christianity and western paganism (and buddhism for that matter) have in common are strong conceptions of order vs chaos, good vs evil and pure vs impure. in certain nondualist hindu sects these lines become blurred, and thats how you get aghoris eating human flesh and regular indians smearing themselves in cow dung. such unaryan ways are contrary to Dharma, to Truth, to Virtus

>>512980552
Gods all powerful and can create evil and then separate himself from it since that's a perk of omnipotence, now go cry in a corner kek

>>512988327
yes catholicism is a kind of merger between paganism and christianity, but I think only american catholics get pissy when you bring up that halloween is a rebranded lemuria or samhain. in europe i found most catholics there embrace the idea a little more, viewing it a bit like vajrayana buddhism, where demons are tamed and repurposed in the name of the Buddha

>>512987163
Candy is bad for you. A reality without evil wouldn't be bad for you. Absolutely stupid comparison.
Why would god create a reality with evil with a reality of no evil being the prize after you die if you were a good boy.
Why not just skip the evil and suffering part if the end goal is going to be a reality with no evil anyway.

Completely dishonest comparison

>>512989381
>not substantiated by any of the sagas or eddas.
those were penned and sanitized by Christian scribes.
you do see reference to some of those accusations within the lokesenna, when loki speaks about odin masquerading as a woman and "going among men" in samsey for example.

>>512989600
Catholic countries in Europe has a 'day of the dead'.

>>512989805
>those were penned and sanitized by Christian scribes.
>except the lokesenna which is proof of gay sex
lack of evidence is not evidence anon. there is absolutely nothing in the eddas or sagas to suggest semen drinking was a part of any ritual.

seidhr was considered to be 'umanly' magic because you consumed a cocktail of herbs and drugs to induce a 3 day long trance state in which the spirit left the body to venture to other worlds. odin tried it once after learning the magic from freya and then forbid it from being practiced by men, as he believed it unmanned them. in germanic society and culture a man was essentially seen as equal to a woman if he wasnt useful or pulling his own weight, and so loki's accusation that odin was being a woman when he learned such magic is rather typical insult found in sagas dealing with how the norsemen interacted with each other. you forget to mention that loki is basically the god of liars, tricksters, hustlers and shit-talkers, so its dubious whether anything he says in lokesenna has any weight or is simply being exaggerated for comedic effect. one of the few known depictions of loki in germanic art shows him with a stitched mouth

>>512989381
Yeah I think there’s a lot of overlap with certain parts of Hinduism, gnostic Christianity, paganism and Buddhism as far as metaphysics goes. I’ve been reading the Bhagavad-Gita and the gnostic bible, there’s a lot of concepts that each one shares I think. It kind of reminds me of how in Dune, Herbert synthesized different religions into the Orange Catholic Bible. I think you’re right at some point someone will do this.

>>512977394 (OP)
>with an all powerful, all good, all knowing god
So... Where in the bible is it stated that god is all powerful, all good, all knowing?
> and yet Christians claim thats the case.
Maybe they misunderstand the bible.
You have to understand just one sentence to understand the bible.
> In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
> John 1:1
It does sound like bullshit, mind you but that's because it's a shitty translation. In the greek, what John is telling you right at the very beginning, is God is "Logos". The Greek word used in the original text is "Λόγος (Logos)". That's the important bit you need to understand. Everything else falls into place thereafter.
Pic is related. God is "Reason".
It isn't like there aren't other hints. God's name in Hebrew?
יהוה (YHWH) means "I am", or "to be". As in "cogito ergo sum".
There are places where reason is all powerful and all knowing. The realm of thought. You can think anything you like, create, do anything at all in your imagination. Reason sees, controls, manipulates it all.
The irony here is that the original Proto Indo European mythos that underpin most paganism, implies that they believed something similar. That thought, reason were divine.

>>512990204
>seidhr was considered to be 'umanly' magic because you consumed a cocktail of herbs and drugs to induce a 3 day long trance state in which the spirit left the body to venture to other worlds. odin tried it once after learning the magic from freya and then forbid it from being practiced by men, as he believed it unmanned them.
what you're saying doesn't fit.

https://vikingr.org/old-norse-texts/lokasenna
>Loki spoke:
>24. “They say that in Samsey you once worked like witches with spells and charms; and in witch’s guise among men, you went; your soul must seem unmanly.”
"in witch's guise among men," not being "unmanned by being in a drug induced stupor"

>loki is a liar and a trickster
why doesn't he deny the accusations then?

then loki lays into odin's (vithrir's) wife
>Loki spoke:
>26. “Be silent, Frigg! You are Fjorgyn’s wife, but always lustful in love; for Vili and Ve, you, wife of Vithrir, have lain with both in your bosom.”
we read in the ynglingasaga and voluspa that this is true and factual, odin's wife was banging his brothers vil and ve while odin was off being a woman in samsey.
if this story about odin being a cuckold is true, why cast doubt on him being a fag?

>>512991834
>what you're saying doesn't fit.
what I said is from the heimskringla, Ynglingatal. go read it yourself if you doubt what i said. lokis jest in lokesanna is clearly referencing this

Odin, Ville and Ve are clearly a triune god, lokis accusation of infidelity is a joke on those who didnt understand such concepts. funny you suddenly remember what the ynglingasaga is now

>>512992141
>odin vili and ve are a triune god
what in the world?
what do you mean by the term "triune" here? that's nowhere within norse pagan corpus in the trinitarian sense.
even the lokasenna flyting assumes they are distinct beings. if they were truly one entity, loki's jab wouldn't make sense.
>it was just a joke
the lokesenna is a vicious roast where loki airs real scandals (baldr's death, freyja's sluttiness, odin's broken oaths)
the audience (the gods) react with anger or silence, and this suggests they are genuine sore points rather than jokes.

you seem to be implying the ynglinga saga overrides the lokesenna conflict, but that's a false hierarchy. both texts are valid sources.
ynglinga saga is snorri's euhermerized account of norse kings, blending myth with pseudo-genealogy.
lokasenna is a mythological poem that reflects older less sanitized by Christians traditions.
snorri often smoothed over problematic pagan elements, like the gods engaging in "ergi" or infidelity. lokasenna being older and more raw preserves these.

there's no direct evidence odin even forbade seidr, it just had a cultural stigma attached to it.
no primary sources reference your weird drug thing either.

>what I said is from the heimskringla, Ynglingatal.
https://heimskringla.no/wiki/Ynglingatal
seems to be from your ass.
there's nothing about drug cocktails, seidr, or any specific details about odin freya or a prohibition on men practicing seidr due to it being unmanly here.
just a geneaology of kings dying in funny ways and chasing dwarves.

>>512977716
>Nowhere in Christianity
>with your will being his will
so he isn't all powerful then

>>512993505
>if fatalism isn't true, then God is not all-powerful
IQ test
play devil's advocate with yourself and try to think up a way that what you're saying does not logically follow.

>>512977394 (OP)
>>512977394 (OP)
>>512977394 (OP)
I JUST STARTED WATCHING VIKINGS
FOR A NORMIE SERIES
IT'S VERY BASED OVERALL. HIGHLY RECOMMEND.

THE SS HAD THE RIGHT IDEA
THERE'S TOO MANY HOLES IN MODERN CHRISTIANITY
WHICH HAS BEEN IN TERMINAL DECLINE SINCE WWI ENDED.

>>512993368
here you braindead nigger, you clearly love being dishonest so im not going to bother responding to the rest of your jewish nonsense. remember to attend the feast of the holy circumcision in a few months

>>512994503
>>512994503
>>512994503
YOU'RE PROBABLY
TALKING
TO A RAJEET

I ASSUME MOST BRITBONG, CANADIAN, & WEIMERIMUTT FLAGS ARE SHITSKINS AT THIS POINT

GIVING INDIANS ACCESS TO THE INTERNET HAS BEEN A DISASTER FOR THE ENTIRE PLANET, KEK. THE CONSEQUENCES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME. THANK GOD THE JEETS MADE NORMIES RACIST AGAIN.

ATTENTION FEDS
ATTENTION BOOMERS // LOLBERTARIANS
ATTENTION NEO-CONSERVATIVES [Mostly Jews & Shabbos Goyim]

YOU
LOST
I WON THE CULTURE WAR. BACK IN 2015. STAY LOSING.

+ THE BRIGADE
+ A MIGHTY FORTRESS
+ FREEDOM'S SONS

+ FAME OF A DEAD MAN'S DEEDS
+ ADL: 100 YEARS OF HATE // 200 YEARS TOGETHER [JQ]
+ HITLER'S WAR

+ THIS TIME THE WORLD // WHITE POWER
+ SN33D BY: JAMES MASON
+ IMPERIUM BY FRANCIS PARKER YOCKEY

+ INSIDE ALLIED HIGH COMMAND: WAR BETWEEN THE GENERALS
+ COSMOTHEISM TRILOGY
+ MARCH OF THE TITANS

ASHA LOGOS
ZOOMER HISTORIAN
www.AlexLinder.com/Audio

HISTORY OF THE SCHUTZSTAFFEL:https://youtu.be/E_5rRVkfHz0?si=8Mg-zNK-28NvOZYa

THE NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIVES:https://youtu.be/x8PfTwLiYQE?si=AbHuJMw6YsIZJcGt

OUTBREAK OF WWII:https://youtu.be/j9umwEhi7sI?si=iv7FATOiI5DsPF6Z [P-O-L-A-N-D]

CATTLE DIE & KINSMAN DIE
AND SO ONE DIES ONE'S SELF
ONE THING NOW THAT NEVER DIES
THE FAME OF A DEAD MAN'S DEEDS

MY HONOR IS MY LOYALTY
ALL ACCOUNTS WILL BE SETTLED
FREEDOM COMES FROM THE SWORD
WE WILL NEVER GO BACK

卐 STRUGGLE
卐 SURVIVAL
卐 SECURITY

THE DEATH OF EVROPA w / DOUGLAS E. MURRAY
5,903,513 Views: Oct 7, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQXHc-tJMXM

Dr. William Luther Pierce Speech Given To: National Alliance Units
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu4-RRhs9aM

https://listenaudiobooks.cloud/?s=turner+diaries

https://www.bitchute.com/video/mZpeJkSNjcA3/
TGSNT Current Mirror: 545,000+ Views

https://www.bitchute.com/video/fis6p176wpx8/
THE ULTIMATE RED-PILL [FUHRER'S GREATEST SPEECHES] 90,000+ Views & 700+ Likes Wewlads

https://www.bitchute.com/video/V49Gg3GfYDKV/
THE JEWISH QUESTION V.I
[CRUCIFIXION, HOLOCAUST, ISRAEL]

"The Cooler Heads Will Prevail. Let Us Make Sure That The Cooler Heads Belong To Us."
- James Mason: SN33D, Best Selling Book

"We're All From The Ganges Now."
- Jean Raspail: Camp Of The Saints

"Oh Israel. . . Oh Israel. . ."
- Randolph O. Calverhall: Serpent's Walk

"Oscar Yeager Is On The Warpath!"
- Andrew Macdonald [Dr. William Luther Pierce]: Hunter

"It Only Takes Six Weeks To Destabilize A Nation."
- Yuri Bezmenov, K.G.B.

STAY STRONG
STAY VIGILANT
STAY ALIVE

>>512977583
Can god create a mountain too heavy for him to move?

WE MUST SECURE THE EXISTENCE OF OUR PEOPLE AND A FUTURE FOR WHITE CHILDREN

WHILE ALSO DISCOVERING OUR ROOTS, LOST TO AGES LONG PAST & SOME RECORDS DESTROYED BY OUR ENEMIES.

IRREGARDLESS. RACE COMES BEFORE RELIGION. MAYBE 10-15% OF CHRISTIANS WILL COME HOME 18-21% MAX

MOST CHRISTIANS
WILL BE AGAINST US
AS WILL THE BILLIONS OF ATHEISTS, MUSLIMS // HINDUS IN TERMINAL DECLINE

>>512994845
>>512994845
>>512994845
GOD CAN
BUT NOT THE FALSE GODS LIKE THE O.T. DEMIURGE

THEIR GODS ARE NOT COMING TO SAVE THEM ANYMORE. IAM COMING INSTEAD.

KEEP IN MIND
MILLIONS OF THE BEST OF OUR RACE AFTER 2000 YEARS OF TIME. DIED IN WORLD WAR ONE & TWO.

FOR JEWS, EVANGELICALS, & HOMOSEXUAL FREEMASONS.

WHAT
A
CALAMITY

IF ONLY
THE NORMIES KNEW
HOW BAD THINGS REALLY ARE RIGHT NOW. IT'S BETTER THAN MOST DON'T REALLY.

NOT TO MENTION MILLIONS OF SHITSKINS

2.5 MILLION NEW SHITSKINS INTO THE U.K. IN TWO YEARS
800,000 ASIAN IMMIGRATIONS [Jeets] INTO CANADA THE FIRST 4 MONTHS OF 2025...

THE DEATH OF THE WEST
COLLAPSE
RACE WAR... BILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIE.

WESTERN EVROPA WILL COLLAPSE WORSE THAN RUSSIA // WEIMERICA

THEY DON'T
EVEN HAVE GUNS... VERY GRIM DARK.

ADOLF HITLER IS THE MOST LIED ABOUT MAN SINCE CHRIST

DAILY REMINDER:
'MY SPIRIT WILL RISE FROM THE GRAVE & THE WORLD WILL KNOW I WAS RIGHT.' --- FIRST FUHRER.

>>512979228
>>512979693
>>512980862
>>512986241
>>512987163
Infinite seethe from mutts whose brains have been so melted by jew worship they think a desert kike religion is true. You literally believe the one true god is the god of the jews, and jews are or were his chosen people. And somehow this is appropriate for the white man?

NEVER SURRENDER
NEVER CAPITULATE
OUR TIMELINE NOW BATTLE BROTHERS & SISTERS. HAIL VICTORY. WHITE PRIDE WORLD-WIDE. THIS TIME THE WORLD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri5igcLtNF8
Arno Breker x suffocation crystal castles (edit)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaaVIc4Ohvs&t=3s
Come and See / 1985 / Edit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Om2nsd08Bc
Schindler's List 1993 Film - Amon Goeth 4K《Skins Slowed - Reverb》[Edit]
[88,000+ Views already lmao]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrfm-ck95E4
Haus Abendrot - Ayden George Remix
[New Aryan Classic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCiIT2hg9y8
Collapsing World Main Theme - Ayden George

MY HONOR IS MY LOYALTY --- BLOOD --- ALL ACCOUNTS WILL BE SETTLED --- SOIL

>>512989788
One of the very first stories in the Bible is about how humanity had a chance at a reality without evil and then they fucked it up.
>muh why didn't God create a reality without a tree of good and evil
>muh why didn't God create a reality without talking snakes
>muh why didn't God just make it okay to eat from the tree of good and evil
People do evil things and then bitch at God about why evil exists.

IAM GOING OUT TO THE BEER HALL ANONS
BE WELL
& STAY FASHY. AVE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I76PJ4xq84s
Triarii - Fatalist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rIH3TcS85E
Elessar - In The Light, We Are One

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kenlUi7uiPw
Black Magick SS - Burning Bridges 2023 FULL ALBUM

>>512995746
>>512995746
>>512995746

>>512994503
>earlier you: what i said is from the ynglingatal.
>now upset you: here's the ynglinga saga chapter 7! you're jewish i hate you!
what am i supposed to be reading here?
i see nothing about drugs or a triune god.
i'd ask you what i'd said you thought was dishonest, but looks like you're running away like a little biiiiiiiiiiitch who'll never enter the storied halls of valhalla.

>>512996064
>>512996064
>>512996064
HITLER
ENTERED
VALHALLA

EVERYONE HERE
HAS YET TO
PROVE THEMSELVES AFTERALL

>>512995359
your grandma was Christian and she's sad you're not.

>>512996187
>>512996187
>>512996187
THE CHRISTIANS
LET THE WEST FALL APART WITH INFIGHTING

JUST LIKE THE ANCIENT GREEKS. KEK.

>>512994950
You fool you fell for one of the classic paradoxes, if god can make a mountain too heavy to move that means there's a mountain too heavy for god to move, which means god isn't omnipoted, for he can't move a mountain. This is one of the fedora tippers oldest tricks and you fell right for it

THE CHRISTIANS
ALSO ALLOWED THE JEWS TO RUIN SOCIETY WITH GOYSLOP & TALMUDIVISION

AS SOMEONE BORN CHRISTIAN, EASTERN ORTHODOX, AT LEAST I CAN ADMIT THE TRUTH. OUR RELIGION USED TO BE ABOUT THE TRUTH.

NOW
IT'S MOSTLY
SHABBOS GOYIM // GOLEM. SERVANTS & ZOMBIES FOR JEWISH ZIONISTS.

>>512996286
>>512996286
>>512996286
SN33DS FEED + SEED
FORMERLY
CHUCK'S SUCK & FUCK

>>512977394 (OP)
i bet you're the same mother fucker that posts these ignorant threads every-single-day. its very clear what your goal is. and its SATANIC. you never stop trying to convince people that Paganism is somehow good, innocent, pure, ORIGINAL. when the total opposite is true. its the corruption, its the perversion, its mankind misguided. and thats why Christianity is necessary.

you're just projecting and trying to define what their beliefs are.. and once again, you're dishonest about it.

people create evil and are the source of it when they choose to do so. thats what sin is all about. its a crime or an offense. paganism offers no real clear, sober, TRUE idea of up and down with morality. you're not going to find anything of the sort in any form of devil worship. that guy was a huge piece of shit, and i wish i could open a portal in time and toss you threw it so you could be at his mercy, and likewise, take you on a trip to meet Jesus so you can see how clear and obvious teh choice is.

pfft paganism. you're not a pagan. even if you do try and kill a cat in the woods or you try and reinact some empty ritual thaty ou have no real context for. you're still a larping faggot.

evil can't exist? thats YOUR stupid idea, pal. God is not powerless against it, we are the ones who have chosen to create it and to allow it to exist. and being anti-paganism is part of standing against evil. because sacrificing your children to dead people is fucking INSANE.

now im sure tomorrow you'll post yet another thread that confuses jews, Christianity and paganism. and thats because you're a devil rying to mislead and confuse people. but Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. so good luck going against that.

renewal.. paganism is what corrupted Europe. Jesus is what helped to purify them. you trying to trick people into re-embracing paganism is evil bullshit. and so God would have me call you out on it :]

"The Father" of Jesus Christ > pagan gods

>>512978118
>i'm smart because i say category error

>>512978555
Thanks Rabbi.

>>512978555
>>512978555
>>512978555
SHUT IT DOWN
GOY MAN

FUCK OFF RABBI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaSvcIoPmyc
Abraham Baruch the Anti-Goy 2 [Translated]

SHILLS
GLOWNIGGERS
HOW MAD ARE YOU THAT MY TALKING POINTS ARE MAINSTREAM

24% OF AMERICANS ARE NOW ANTI-SEMITIC
ACCORDING TO YOUR ADL JEWS

KEKKK

>>512987208
so?

when you start to look into other mythological systems, you start to realize that the stories in the bible are not unique, but they are edited for a very specific purpose, which is why the doctrine that the book is the divine word of god is so necessary.

the purpose is to deny the gentiles their birthright, to capture the primordial myth. they say "we are the true children of mannus, we were passed the scepter and the measures of the world. we are chosen and the gentiles gave their birthright away for a bowl of lentils." true to form, winning just isn't enough, it must be utter degradation too.

this doctrine is integral to the universalist, international christianity. you want to talk about a one world religion and a new world order? what exactly do you think the church is? the gentiles couldn't produce a messiah, only these child sacrificers who made a covenant with a flaming demon in the desert.

>Genesis 15:17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces.

what do you think this smoking firepot (oven) was? it was the oven they offered the infants into. abraham goes and offers isaac to yahweh. in exodus the firstborn males of egypt become the sacrifice. this isn't a covenant but a curse, this isn't the king of heaven but some unclean spirit.

>>512977394 (OP)
>it explains it the way I like it
doesn't matter you aren't God

>>512993368
>https://heimskringla.no/wiki/Ynglingatal
these are fun.

fjolnir drowned in a vat of mead
sveigdir chases a dwarf into a rock, which closes and then there's a giant or a dwarf who looks at him like he's retarded and he dies
vanlandi is killed by a horse sent by a troll witch, then he got lit on fire by a river
visbur is burned alive by his sons.
domaldi is sacrificed by his people and also swedes to appease the gods and get better harvests.
domarr was a half-elf, also ritualistically burned alive by the river (what's with this river?)
dyggvi is taken by hel by a female grim reaper, pretty metal.
dagr tries to get revenge for something, but gets killed by a pitchfork.
agni gets hanged by a golden noose on a boat.
alrekr is killed by his brother with a bridle.
alfr gets jealous of his brother yngvi and kills him. it was some bitch named bera's fault.
jorundr hanged himself and there's a boat (again?)
aun was sacrificed (sure is a lot of human sacrifice in paganism) by having a sword plunged into him by his kin.
egill gets gored by a freaking bull sent by a rebel.
ottarr dies against the danes and gets trampled by a war-vulture (wtf)
adils falls off a horse and dies, then his blood mixes with mud.
eysteinn gets burned in a hall.
yngvarr dies against the estonians on some island, the sea is really happy about it.
onundr dies in an avalanche (finally one that wasn't murdered)
ingjaldr dies doing something sneaky in a fire and swedes thought it was courageous.
>>512996173
hitler cowered in a hole and shot himself in the head

>>512997878
kek, poor fjolnir liked mead too much for his own good. the heimskringla is indeed a good read whether you are Asatru or not

there are some readpills on women in there as well

>>512997985
yeah, wheres the list?

>>512977394 (OP)
acting liek Christianity somehow tricked people into slavery and submission. when thats exactly what paganism had done to the world. people were slaves to the idols of their dead gods.

Jesus is the way for people to break from from those religious cults. and no, true biblical Christianity is not one of those cults. however there are many of those pagan cults that have dressed up their religion in Christianity, but beneath it they're still pagan, and its why those churches are terrible. like the Catholic church.

The Father / The Son / Holy Spirit > the lesser pagan gods

The Father came first, the pagan gods followed, they screwed things up, The Son came and made things right again. IF people choose to. if the Gospel is spread far and wide and people finally understand.

>>512977394 (OP)
>God is le bad when he doesn't vanquish evil for me
Pagan gods must think you're a pussy lol

>>512977394 (OP)
Why do you faggots constantly need a label and some sort of encapsulating sociopolitical ideology to capitulate your neet reality? Just embrace life like everybody else and move out of your mom's house or 2 bedroom apt whichever

>>512987133
Paganism was cool before you fags ruined it
And fuck your ass above so below stickers WE GET IT
fuck kys

>>512977394 (OP)
>Evil cant exist in a reality with an all powerful, all good, all knowing god
The fact that there is a possibility that God has a morally sufficient reason to allow evil to exist collapses this argument.

paganism

what does paganism look like
really

in the real world, in real history as it happened, and in the actual present day, what's the paganism situation?

does it look like something europeans can relate to on a primal level?

is paganism western? really?
is it for the west?
does it still fit like an old prom dress from the glory days?
or did the west already make up its mind about this centuries ago

learn to recognize pajeet threads. learn to stop giving (You)s, which end up as rupees, to OPs like this. jews pay pajeets to spam this board en masse with the same globohomo agenda that you're still associating with only jews. since 2023 you are much more likely to see jew noise posted by a pajeet. there are a hundred times as many pajeets as there are jews. if you want any part of the internet to survive, you must detect, reject and redeem pajeets everywhere you find them

>>513001605
>is paganism western?
yes

>>513001645
but you're not

the majority of pajeets on /pol/ try to hide the fact that they're pajeets. in addition to "leaving that part out" they will proactively, persistently misrepresent their true form. pajeets are all about assuming other people's roles, from today's outsourcing and replacement migration all the way back to thuggee bandits lying to travelers about who they were. pajeets are devoid of their own identity, making them the ideal globalized goyim. they don't want a home where they belong. all that means to them is "compete in squalor." much better to go somewhere nicer, built by other people, and do their jobs for less pay and live slum-barracks life in their suburbs. pajeets don't want to be home. they also don't want to be pajeets. jews know exactly how to play their insecurities and dopey ambitions like the innocent rube fresh off the bus from the cornfield. this is their new golem to replace the ones that don't love them anymore

all pajeets are working for jews, including the ones who perform antisemitism and say all the things they learned to say on /pol/. they are also serving the jew agenda. how? by speaking english and living in everyone else's countries. spectre, multiculturalism, mass migration, kalergi plan. don't even bother acting like pajeets oppose jews in any way. they support jews simply by their nature, by crowding into every opening gatekeepers offer them to enter the west and degrade it

>WHAT IS A PAJEET?
the best way to define pajeet is
>descended from south asian subcontinental ancestry.

political distinctions on maps or signified by flags are false and irrelevant. everything south of the himalayas that isn't gooky-chinky is pajeet. pakistan, india, bangladesh, sri lanka are all pajeet territory. enough of nepal is jeeted that they may as well qualify too.

all of these pajeets could stay where they belong and call themselves what they like, and nobody would disagree because nobody cares. however, because they profusely shit up the internet, and they mass migrate to shit up everyone else's homelands, they're all pajeets now. all counted together as the same thing, on the same visiting team as far as the human world is concerned.

hindu, muslim, sikh, atheist, etc; male, female, gendersexual, old, young, etc; deformed, odorless, fair & lovely, dark & deep, everything in between, etc... forget all of it. none of that proud heritage matters once they exit designated land to race with the globalist rats. now their entire overcrowded neighborhood at the bottom of asia is known as one source of one type of trespasser: the pajeet.

>ONLY A PAJEET DISPUTES THIS DEFINITION

when in doubt, try this
CLINICAL TEST QUESTION
>are you descended from south asian subcontinental ancestry?
any answer longer than "no" means yes
not answering means yes
lying means yes

>>513001700
what religion is JD vances wife?

there is no religion a pajeets practice that will make them belong in north america. no one they can marry, no offspring they can produce, no property they can purchase that makes them american. i'm sorry if jews told you something else and you believed them

>>512977394 (OP)
It's over for China!

>>513002894
>>513002894
>>513002894

>>512980196
Isaiah 45:7
> I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

>>512977394 (OP)
i will kill the anti-christ

>>513004644
>paganism explains the problem of evil in a way that makes more sense than christianity.

>>512977394 (OP)
>Would the political landscape look better if European paganism saw a renewal?
European paganism is already seeing a renewal that has broken records in over one thousand years.
The results are not good.

>>512981285
you abandoned the thread because you got BTFO by anons who actually tried to hold your hand through all the steps taken to their logical conclusion