Thread 512979831

How long can the US keep this up? How is the US government affording to pay for anything if it is drowning under an ocean of debt?

https://apnews.com/article/treasury-debt-spending-trump-obbb-6f807c4aae78dcc96f29ff07a3c926f4

>>512979831 (OP)
Who do we owe the debt to?

>>512979831 (OP)
>How long can the US keep this up?
Forever. Who will collect? Our nuclear arsenal says no one.

>>512979879
That doesn't mean people have to keep taking on America's debt. The whole "who is going to collect" argument assumes the US will always stay on top when it is clear the country is falling apart at the seams.

Trump is a lair. He kept no promises to the American people. He only serves the fake nation of israel.
Of course he's forcing the economic data to be lies. He's a damned jew, and been one since 2017.
Consider that that national debt inflated the money supply by $370 Trillion. Kikes can loan it out at 10% and make $37 trillion a year, forever. And you can't pay it off, mathematically impossible.
But you're a dumbshit, a "goyim" (means cow) and you slept through math and never learned about your banking system. So, you go along with it and pretend that everyone went to the same kind of insanity for no reason at all.

>>512979831 (OP)
look at a gdp chart then look at the same chart with the Forbes Top 5 removed and youll see how fake and gay the economy has been for a while.

US debt will be abolished when the existing govt rebrands into the next one.

>>512979831 (OP)
It was 33 trillion beginning this year. It went up by 4 trillion. Why did Obama do this?

>>512979867
Jews.

>>512979831 (OP)
this is why the fed won't lower rates, nobody's buying treasuries anyway unless it's short term.

>>512979831 (OP)
>Government in debt
Lol just press the No Debt button, that easy.

>>512980658
It turns out if you kill your debtors you don't owe them anything
Subscribe for more lifehacks

>>512979879
yeah but who's going to buy?

>>512980844
Ya ok, then you find out you're an indirect debtor as much as the rest of the world and they just fuck off. Defaulting basically means it's over. The Jews have gutted the nation and lived their best lives.

We worship highways in this country gayboy. We have more than enough road to kick the can down and if we run out we just build more. Europoors won't do shit, browns won't do shit, and chinks won't do shit. The second they hear our massive balls dragging along the concrete they cower in fear because they know their place.

>>512979831 (OP)
Just print 37 trillion more dollars to pay off the debt

(((WINNING)))

>>512979831 (OP)
Only 20% of the debt is owned by foreigners. The rest is owned by large hedge funds and banks that basically are the government anyway. We basically owe it to ourselves and we print the currency its due in. To answer your question, as long as there is demand for dollars outside the united states they can keep doing this and the slow burn of 2-5% inflation will continue.

>>512979831 (OP)
The "debt" is easy, free money.
This scheme can go on forever as long as america remains the world hegemon.
It all collapses when america is forced to withdraw from other continents.

>>512981184
>as long as there is demand for dollars outside the united states
That demand is there because america os considered untouchable.

>>512979831 (OP)
The aftermath of an American default will be a bloodbath. Most pension funds and insurance companies are invested in T-bonds. Imagine those becoming insolvent from one day to another?


>>512980658

Srsly, I really don't understand why he is even asking.

>>512980727
That's the problem.
>keep interest rates high. Economy freezes, there is more unemployment and the debt becomes more expensive.
>lower them and risk inflation getting out control.

choose your poison.

>>512979831 (OP)
>>512979867

It's not who the debt is 'owed' to (You) need to be concerned/worry about.
It's who is going to buy the debt:

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/500310690


Global bond aka debt market is on brink of collapse. Nobody wants to buy the debt

Every individual bill of debt note fiat currency (that, recall, is backed by nothing) "printed" into existence, also has a corresponding bond issued by the sovereign nation's treasury. The bonds *ARE* the 'backing' for debt note fiat currency.
When global confidence in the bond market evaporates, so does the entire worldwide currency system which is dependent in the 21st century on a single default reserve denomination USD

Ignore the number and look at % 120% to 140% is high but not problematic 160% is danger territory and higher is Zimbabwe tier. I think the U.S has around 100% atm so they're still fine. Not having a budget that can even pay the interest rate is their problem and why they are getting downgraded.

>>512981188
>as long as america remains the world hegemon
checked, not quite

It is as long as the debt issuance is sustained by global investor/buyer confidence in the bond market.
(see above)

Yes correct: U.S. "world hegemon" status (primarily through military and economic power) is part of 'enforcement' of USD adherence as the global reserve currency denomination. But the *main* part of the dollar denomination's default reserve status is global confidence in U.S. economic / GDP growth rates and sustenance of that.

(picrel: magnitude of Interest Payments have outstripped annual U.S. gov discretionary spending)

>>512980727
>>512980915
This anon gets it.

>>512979879
>Forever
Wrong.


>captcha: MMTR4Y

>>512979831 (OP)
the money is fake, they print it out of thin air and it's backed by nothing. the debt might as well be $0

>>512979831 (OP)
Move all our money to crypto destroying the dollar and then pay the debt off

>>512981916
Is the bond market fake?

>>512981318
Its actually because as bad as the US dollar is, every other currency is worse. What governments say and do doesnt matter. Private individuals in other countries want dollars because their own currency sucks. The dollar also has a very strong network effect that will be hard to undo, everyone on earth will accept payment in dollars and nearly all intragovernmental debt around the world is in USD and those bond owners demand to be paid in USD. Some other country would have to convince the global currency markets that their money is better.
>>512981464
idk about that but interest rates returning to historic norms has made it very difficult for Americans to consoom. This wont be good for sure but I doubt it will kill the dollar by itself.
>>512981388
America wont default in the traditional sense because it prints the dollars it owes.
>>512981719
This, we are past the event horizon but weve got a long time to prepare
>>512981936
Crypto is an inflation sponge that is going to get rugpulled

>>512981982
Fake IOUs

>>512980506
>how fake and gay the economy has been for a while
Correct.
most of the west's GDP (over 40 percent) for the past few decades consists of government spending / contracts / jobs. So whenever we see any article or chart in any source or from any agency zestily discussing 'GDP' of nations/comparing it all, it's largely governments themselves. Actual durable goods manufacturing output of the west has plummeted since the 1970s. The west today, economically and GDP-wise is a gov-sponsored and -funded simulacrum of its former self

The real stake to heart of it though, is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-to-GDP_ratio

>>512980143
It’s not you dumb chink

>>512982326
Americas manufacturing output has stagnated since 2008 but it hasnt plummeted. Also the govt jobs thing is worse than you think, 1/3 of black women are employed by the federal government, probably more if you include the state and local ones+their contractors they force to adopt DEI programs that are worse than private ones.

>>512982104
>consoom
Yes but again, you're commenting on the Real Economy of goods-services-commodities in which most 95+% of the populace subsists. (Yes absolutely correct, the elevated prime rate has kaboshed residential home sales recently and also consumer spending overall on which most of the Real Economy is reliant)
'Killing the dollar' has to do with the meta-macro factors and trends mentioned in my posts ^^^

There's an entire post-1970s Financialized global economy which is where over 90 percent of the world's wealth is *segregated entirely* from the Real Economy, a huge portion of these HNW entities are the ones that determine what direction the bond market goes (and consequently 'fate of the dollar' etc.)
IOW it's not consumer spending or even real estate that's going to "tank the dollar" or even the economy overall. It's the global bond market

>>512982140
>Fake IOUs
I'm sure that'll work out fine for all the nations that have to make their sovereign debt payments in USD

>>512982791
America doesnt need anyone outside of the US to buy its debt, they arent buying our bonds. Foreign entities only own about 20% of it. Theyre sending goods and services here to get dollars so they can use them to trade amongst eachother. The main buyers are the large pension funds, hedge funds and banks inside the US you mentioned. The dollar milkshake will buttfuck everyone else long before the sovereign debt crisis gets to us. When the Yen, Euro and CAD are in crisis and the DXY is up to 150 or more then it will be time to worry

>>512982722
checked, read the post immediately below (You)rs.

>"black women"
(agreed it's worse, but) (You)'re stuck narrowly-focused in the Real Economy paradigm/nationwide economy, in analyzing the global debt market need to pull out to the wide 200,000 ft altitude view, how the Financialized global economy where all the wealth is concentrated, operates: and the "capital" (a misnomer now) flows within that system

Unearned income has become the primary method by which the top global HNW entities use debt instruments and debt note fiat currencies create wealth and increase sovereign GDP (which is less and less comprised of actual goods/services while more and more comprised of Financialized debt and speculative instruments). Global debt topped $255 trillion in 2019 and $307 trillion in 2023, more than three times the amount of all global economic output. Total debt levels and deficit spending of the past 30 years has eclipse that of the past few centuries of western civilization, and absurdly low and negative interest rate borrowing costs have incentivized national (and local) governments to no longer borrow on the expectation that they will repay, but rather the expectation that they will refinance.

Remarkably prescient December 2019 panel (immediately before covid struck: more on that later)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMHQaxd5N-Q

Debt is such a meme.
Nobody cares.
Double it, triple it. (And we will, soon)
It doesn’t matter.

>>512983224
>outside of the US to buy
Doesn't matter.
Somebody / some entity has to buy the bonds. RN (not just by the United States FRB either) only central banks are

Debt has to be bought.
That is the basis of function for an ('ever-expanding') debt-based monetary and financial system to keep from imploding, and for it to sustain itself. Hint: the debt-based economic model sustains itself *only* by continual gigaexpansion, it can't go backwards/in reverse direction

>>512983501
Global bond market is a meme, also?

>>512979867
More importantly, what did we get in exchange for this debt being taken out in our name?
I think we're just going to have to write it all off as a fraudulent transaction.

>>512983329
Thats part of it, all that money is due in USD not local currency. If dollars become too scarce to keep refinancing everyone defaults and currencies collapse. Except us because we can print more. This demand pressure is growing and its deflationary for the USD. If you think inflations bad now we wouldve become zimbabwe 30 years ago if this wasnt the case.

>>512980143
>It's not

It's not what retard please elaborate further.

>>512983566
>fraudulent transaction

Watch, study the Richard Werner 170-min interview:
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/511622826

>>512983651
This comment was meant for >>512982692

>>512983508
Yes, the usd provides liquidity to global debt markets so they have to keep printing

>>512979831 (OP)
This is one of the most important questions /pol/ can ask. I wish I knew the exact answer. There's too many variables at play, but a major thing to look out for is, can another currency replace the dollar? If no then America can continue the circus at the cost of inflation for a long time.

>>512979831 (OP)
AI bubble is about to pop as nuclear-ly as the speed at which it was inflated. GPT-5 is a disappointment. Promises were made. DEATH STAR -sized promises were made. We got scammed.

Pop

>>512983768
Thats just it, there isnt one. The end will come when the dollar becomes too expensive and scarce and the whole world defaults on the $307 Trillion USD it owes to eachother.

>>512983576
>'us'
>we can print more
The whole syatem is dependent on USD, the default reserve. Read carefully my first post itt

Never in global history has all of the world economy been dependent on a single reserve currency denomination.
'Scarcity' of dollars, yes (You)'re thinking in the right direction: Look at for example Brent Johnson's dollar milkshake theory. It's not a complete explanation but generally posits how the whole world wants to seek USD *as a currency* unit of exchange. Another joined-at-hip topic with that, is the global hidden eurodollar network of time dependent deposits (some of <--these do intersect with sovereign debt payments), most of that is denominated exclusively in USD.
Financialization of the global economy, along with hidden walled-off networks that conceal the vast majority of wealth such as eurodollars, compounded by and added to with the black box gigacasino that investment banks have become since the 1980s with all the myriad speculative debt instruments (CDOs, credit default swaps, derivatives, options, mortgage backed securities etc.) means that the real wealth of the world isn't being 'accounted' for at all whatsoever. The Real Economy which 99 percent of global populace and most governments are trapped in and enslaved to is separate, segregated entirely from that

>>512983787
GPT-5 is just a cost-cut version which is actually a responsible move. The AI spending splurge will continue. Data centers will keep expanding at exponential growth. Trillions and trillions will be spent.
Stock market keeps going up, by the way.

>>512984101
so if it all goes poof it wont affect anyone except boomers on pensions?

Not long.

6 more months

Capital flight to China has already begun

>>512984249
Boomers have pensions.
And 401ks.
And social security.
And multi-million dollar homes.
And more.
They’ll be fine.

>>512984336
China is a roach motel for capital. You can check in but you cant check out

>>512983764
>liquidity
in mid-2019 a vast chasm appeared in the global investment/Wall Street banks' balance sheets, so vast that they couldn't make their overnight repo payments.
It became so severe that even Elizabeth Warren was on Capitol Hill "wtF is going on here"
Between Sept 2019 and Jan 2020 almost $1T in bailouts was provided to the investment banks to keep their black box casino functional, and to keep an instant credit freeze (total lockup of the system, <--which same also would have occurred 2008 had not that bailout been greenlighted) from happening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMkq75L5n_k

Then magically in Jan 2020 along came covid + never-before-in-human-history global lockdown: and another $12T in liquidity to keep the investment banks' gigacasino 'fountain of youth' steaming along for themselves

We are still in rn 2025 the six-year global economic collapse that began in summer 2019

>>512984249
A couple years ago the Bank of England was forced to buy up a huge tranche of bonds to keep U.K. pensions from imploding.

Nobody wants to buy the debt

Keep watching the global debt (bond) market, when it goes yes everything 'goes poof'

>>512984434
So what would prevent them from bailing out the banks forever?

>>512984567
>bailing out the banks
>forever
Anon think about what you typed.
Every time 'money' is "printed" it's not the end of the chain, or "free"

Monetary policy (including 'bailouts') consists of a two-component machine:
>1. the central bank
>2. the nation's sovereign treasury

We're talking about a debt-based economic model, the central banks issue debt note fiat currency. Which is not backed by anything; the only thing that "backs" debt note fiat currency, is Debt (itself).
Bonds are issued when the central bank "prints" its 'money' as the collateral for the "printed money". Someone / some thing *must* purchase those bonds, the confidence and stability of the global bond market is measured by the various yields.
For the USD, the most relied-on overall macroeconomic metric that experts follow is the 10-year Treasury bond yield: it's used as a prime indicator for many macroeconomic and GDP, monetary policy trends.
Right now, the U.S. Treasury is trying to switch out the dependence on all the short term (shorter than 10-yr) treasuries that were issued over the past few years, because these shorter term bonds are much less reliable or stable, than the 10-year bond yield is. TL/DR the current administration Treasury Dept is attempting, through various methods including getting out of shorter-term bond issuances, to *increase confidence in* USD-denominated bonds and the global bond market overall.

>>512980658
What's the interest rate?
4-5% on $1B looks good enough to me.

>>512985077
So how long do we have? it seems like every time it looks like its over they pull something new out of their ass to kick the can down the road

>>512981184
govt prints money.

Printing cause inflation.

Govt wants money out of circulation.

Govt release bonds/whatever and gets money out of circulation.

No inflation.

The government keeps printing more money.

Those are numbers anyways. What are they gonna do if the govt got bankrupt in the end? Nothing

Stop talking about the deficit that doesn't matter til the next election

Must watch documentaries (also the Richard Werner interview posted ^^^) for everyone itt:

The Money Deluge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6m49vNjEGs

97% Owned — How is money created
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcGh1Dex4Yo

>>512985329
>how long
Global debt market is the determinant.
See the archive.4plebs thread >>512981464 <--Ray Dalio warned about this in his new book

Couple more:
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/506316301

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/492587004

As long as the global debt market is made-to-remain 'solvent' and worldwide confidence in the bond market stays steady.
I was predicting, sensing we'd have a collapse this summer back in April-May. But what has happened is (never mind the tariff stuff, all of that is giga-overblown) the bond market has 'stabilized' over the past month, it appears that spiking of the 10-year yield and other bond yields is not happening. (Many surmise that central banks, including the Federal Reserve are putting debt/bonds back onto their balance sheets, to prevent spiking of yields and vacuum up unsold bonds)
The problem is twofold from a monetary and fiscal (gov spending ^^^^see the Interest Payments graph upthread) policy point of view.
The United States is now approving $2T/annum budget deficits, at that rate we have about 4 or 5 years left before the Interest Payments brick wall is reached aka Total Default.
Unless:
(continuing the ever-greater-deficits and debt paradigm, which is exceedingly bad but) United States can 'grow its way out' of the Interest Payments tsunami that is inundating itself with, by getting the *annual GDP growth rate* up from its current anemic ~2%, to around 5% or better.
That is what the incoming adminstration, its top economic advisors/experts like Russ Vought, Bessent et al. are 'banking' / betting on.
That we will all see, within a year or 19
*Also* the signaling of this *forecast*(<--remember none of this is actually *occurring* in the Real Economy rn) growth is helpful overall to both bond market and stock/asset markets. (Hence all of the happy talk we hear from the current admin about restoring and reshoring American manufacturing industry, balance of trade etc.)

>>512979831 (OP)
Surely Trump will make Mexico bay our debts. They paid for the wall after all didn't they?

>>512986131
>within a year or 19
*within a year or 18 months from now.

Stop paying taxes
Stop having kids ffs

>>512986131
Economic growth isnt happening though. It hasnt in nearly 20 years

>>512981184
I thought that number was 40%. Is there updated data?

Trump added 11 trillion and we're still only 7 months into his 2nd term, lmao.

>>512979831 (OP)
>How long can the US keep this up?

We can keep going up to $3,000 trillion.

>>512986463
Correct. (see posts above about debt-to-GDP and most of my other posts). The Real Economy of goods-services-commodities is what all of us even care about, anyway.
post-1970s Financialization of the global economy and banking has disproportionally weakened and made irrelevant the . Financialization and financialized wealth instruments are all that the HNW ruling class 0001% (<--includes all the "tech" Broligarchs) care about at all: the Real Economy may as well not exist. Corporations today spend most of their profits shoveling back into stock buybacks to artificially boost their own valuations, that is how CEOs get bonuses none of the major manufacturing corporations even give flying fuck about their own brand hard products, it's all about inflating share valuations in the firm's portfolio. post-1970s Financialization of the global economy has separated product from value and exterminated any price discovery mechanism: it is only and exclusively about making money from money. That is is, all that even exists.
'Capitalism' ended forever, died and went to heaven in 2008. Done. Finished. Since 2008 all the top corporations, HNW entities, investment banks, sovereign governments are 100 percent dependent on endless QE debt note fiat currency bailouts and backstops from central banks, saddled as perma-debt on the backs of sovereign citizens through their own nations' treasuries.

Watch the 40-min documentary 'The Money Deluge' posted ^^^above it is a must.
also the one below it '97% Owned' for how money is created, another must

>"The real money to be made in the world today is not by produing anything at all. It's simply by forms of speculating — basically making money from money. That's the most profitable, and by far and away the biggest form of economic activity that exists in the world today."
— Nick Dearden (quoted in '97% Owned' documentary)

>>512979831 (OP)
The debt’s not a problem if it’s Trump who’s adding to it, sweetie

>>512987122
>disproportionally weakened and made irrelevant the
Real Economy of goods-services-commodities that we all subsist in. The Real Economy is now a footnote, an afterthought.

>produing
*producing

1. Look at it as debt to GDP ratio
2. The US government can say hehe money printer go brrrrrr and pay a load off with ease, sure massive inflation and wipes out goyim savings, as cost of living increase has done since the 70s.
3. Third worlders used to far shitter conditions and living standards fill in any vacuum.

>"The real money to be made in the world today is not by producing anything at all. It's simply by forms of speculating — basically making money from money. That's the most profitable, and by far and away the biggest form of economic activity that exists in the world today."
— Nick Dearden (quoted in '97% Owned' documentary ^^^^^watch it, upthread)

post-1970s Financialization of the global economy is all about speculative debt instruments.
Remember also, that the 1980s ascendance and permission of Financialization (capstoned in 1999 repeal of Glass-Steagall, when global investment banks officially became gigacasinos) was paralleled by the west implementing neoliberal offshoring during Thatcher-Reagan era (and continued-turbocharged under Clinton) of its own manufacturing productive capacity to undeveloped nations, which shows that the top HNW entities had deliberate plans to shift capital aggregation towards Financialized, non-Real Economy assets and speculative debt instruments.

>>512987122
So how do I make money from this?

>>512979831 (OP)
if you pay off the debt the currency disappears. You do not want to and you cannot pay off the debt. next point.

>>512984403
And US Treasuries will never be paid back

>>512979831 (OP)
It doesnt matter because every other country in the world combined still couldnt collect that debt if they wanted to. Pussies

>>512987590
>make money
There's a day/swing trader guy named Greg Mannarino that has tips on how you can beat this gigantic scam in the investment, stocks side of it.
But beware, that kind and level of participation is by definition risky, and the whole system is a giant casino. If ? you decide to actually go down that road. You're entering a black box where the owners set the rules

No advice here. Every person is different, in a different situation. But given the severity of it overall worldwide the best thing for everyone to do is prep, financially and otherwise. Hold hard assets (land, precious metals, ammunition). Remove yourself as much as physically possible from the banking and financial system, along with the urban telecom grid.

>>512979867
The oligarchs. They inherited that debt form their forebear. And they used that money to buy politician and make the debt bigger.

>>512979831 (OP)
There is NO "Debt Crisis." The "debt" is an illusion created by transferring from cash reverses at the FED into the US Treasuries. Think of it like this: you have 10k$ of "cash" in your checking account. You debit 10k$ from you checking when you transfer that cash into a interest paying CD at the same bank. Since you debited that cash you are now have 10k "debt" from your check holdings. You did have plenty of money but now because you wastefully spent money buy a bank product i.e. a CD you now have 10K "debt" because you can't use that money that debited from your checking. You are surely a stupid idiot and will be soon bankrupt because your draining of your cash reserves i.e. your checking account.
If you person finance advisor told you this what would you do? You were a sane Goy you'd fire that Jew and report him to the authorities.
Well, that advice is what EVERY single fucking (((Economist))) believes because they are all stupid and or Jewish scam artists who want divest Americans of US Treasuries so they can steal that money through the Jewish stock market. The "National Debt Crisis" actually is a big hoax by the Jewish Pete Peterson foundation to rob the USA blind by "privatizing" the so-called "Debt." Lolbertarians economic morons and idiots who are constant suckers for Jewish tricks see Argentina.
Idiots like Ron Paul and Thomas Massie are just useful idiots trying to force grandma at the point of a gun to divest of US Treasuries and roll over to gold or some crypto shit coin rather than help maintain the value of her dollars and get 100% risk earnings with US Treasuries. (((Private))) investment knows they can't compete with Treasuries in terms of security so they have to hype of this "National Debt" otherwise they couldn't sell their high risk "private investment financial products."
Financial "News" and "Economics" are Jewish scams and the hyped up "National Debt Crisis" is no different.

The leaders of 100 years ago got incredibly cocky and tried three big things: racemixing, feminism, and fiat currency. I would say that each one of these delivered a massive body blow to the American working man's confidence. Now we are a shell. There is no way to turn our cities into industrial centers while they are full of nonwhites. Unbelievable how arrogant those 20th century progressives were.

>>512987668
it is a global Debt-Based Economic Model >>512982791 anon
"paying back" is not part of the concept or system itself >>512983329


Anyone bringing up 'the national debt' with a simultaneous notion in their mind
>has to be paid back / who does that / how
>America has to pay it / get paid back
etc.
doesn't comprehend how any or all of this works

>>512990538
Exactly. They fundamentally don't understand what money is i.e. a unit of account i.e. a unit of measurement. You don't "pay" back units anymore than a basketball players have to "payback" points after the game. As long as the game continue the points just go up because that's what points are. Dollars are just points in this system to measure value output. Those IOUs called dollars can only ever go up. The question of "who's winning" is the real issue not about "a points debt."

>>512979831 (OP)
Divided equally, every single american alive is in over $100,000 of debt. Pay up goy.

>>512979831 (OP)
The only way out is Weimar style inflation. Thank the jews.

>>512981464
mandatory bond buying will initiate with savings and investment funds, and once the debt is covered they will just cancel the bonds, whereby fucking us all

>>512991304
Well, yes until the global debt (bond) market implodes.
Which it has been on the brink of for the past two years (probably closest to from circa April 2024-June 2025)
Read my other posts upthread

>don't understand what money is
Correct.
(You) and everyone itt need to watch the documentaries posted upthread ^^^^^
>'The Money Deluge'
>'97% Owned — How is money created'
>Richard Werner interview w/ Tucker (archive.4plebs link)

Here is a brief sample clip from several years ago, professor Werner brilliantly explains how the banking system and financial sector really work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC0G7pY4wRE

The documentaries posted upthread are *must watch*.
Understanding and thoroughly comprehending *what money is* and how it is created, isn't merely a one-liner single post task. Requires focused study
Another outstanding overview from the historical perspective of the banking systems worldwide is Bill Still's 'The Money Masters' which is a 4-hr documentary that serves as a graduate seminar in banking and money across the west. It also requires studied attention, take notes while watching it (and re-watch it every few years as I and others do) but you'll be light years ahead of everyone for doing so.

>>512992194
Have you seen/read 'The Great Taking' by David Rogers Webb?

tired of (((WINNING))) yet goy

>>512979831 (OP)
debt is not real

>>512993240
Is the global bond market real?

>>512979831 (OP)
/pol/ said that if I voted for Kamala that we would be $37 trillion in debt.
/pol/ was right: I did voted for Kamala and we are now $37 trillion in debt.

>>512993738
U.S. national debt has absolutely nothing to do with who is in the White House.
It has to do with the trans-adminstration occupancy of the 535 Congressmembers
U.S. Congress holds purse strings and determines fedgov spending.

>>512979879
Most of the debt is domestic you fucking retard. You're basically talking about robbing the American people, of course.

>>512987836
>collect
Not how this works

>>512987715
Nor were they (in aggregate) ever intended to

>>512993738
>time to retardedly derail a quality thread, durrrrr

>>512986482
It depends on what precisely he means by
>'owned by foreigners'

>>512986321
Only thing to do is get out of, disconnect from the system entirely.
Which is on brink of collapse anyway
yep we're back to TK territory: Create small local communities, apart from technocrat urban population-weight centers

>>512989197
It's not really about the debt itself anymore
It is about the Interest Payments on the debt, that's the "national debt crisis"
Magnitude of the debt, itself, has transformed it today far from what it was 2 decades ago (Massie, Ron Paul etc.)

See graph picrel >>512981722
Interest Payments *must* be made, they're not 'imaginary'

>>512979831 (OP)
Trump has accelarated dedollarization
And he clearly wants to run a third term
You're fucked

>>512998255
>memeflag
Trump, himself/administraition, has not 'accelerated' de-dollarization (<--which is a broad and vague term with many aspects and meanings dependent upon where one is viewing from)
Yes unless something health-physical impedes him he would likely seek a third term, that is not news
Obviously, USD is getting weaker notably so since the early 2010s due to many global factors and international circumstances and events. Obviously one of the long-term BRICS goals is to entirely de-couple from the west but they lack political unity and the best they can do in this long-term crusade is strengthen their inter-country lending (SWIFT), use local currencies for their trade (EMBRIC: settles trade imbalances in gold irrespective of currency denominations used) and have their central banks load up on as much gold as they can, all of which incrementally chips away at USD dominance on a global scale.
It's a long term process of erosion, eroding away

>>513000519
What do you think will ultimately happen?

>>513000519
Yes but what *is* money? Serious question. We're talking about debt and all this stuff. In today's day and age why does it have value at all? My hypothesis from a central bank/oligarchic world view is that money has become really just an extension of the legal system. It's like "legality tokens" essentially, and it essentially allows you a certain allocation of the state's monopoly on violence to be deployed in your service. What I'm driving at is that today, what is money other an extension of the legal system to maintain law and order so that the oligarchs can live in peace and security, and do so in a world where castles and personal armies are obsolete? The only peace and security you can trust in being a minimum baseline level of societal cohesion that prevents the populace from descending into a homicidal rage a la a French Revolution. As a basic wage slave, even you are afforded a certain amount of physical protection of your person and assets from the state. At higher levels, acquiring property or assets on paper is essentially just that, purchasing a piece of paper that the broader society will recognize your right to that property ownership and defend your right to own it as such. This is now money's only value. Am I making many sense?

>>512992641
No. There is no bond "market" just like there is no debt. I've seen the yahoos on Zerohedge say "the bond market is about collapse" every other week for the last 15 years. The bond market doesn't fail for the US Treasuries EVER. It can't because by law the FED (and even good economists like Werner don't know FED bylaws) MUST extend enough reserves to clear all bonds put up for sell. In other words, even if the real demand for US Treasuries isn't high enough to sell at auction they MUST expand cash reserve to enough of the Banks to simulate demand until they can buy all remaining bonds WITHOUT risk. The RESERVE currency thus can NEVER fail at auction in this system because there is effectively NO market because the prices signals manipulated to the point of being 100% administrated due to system of unlimited reserve extensions.
Werner is somewhat correct but still has one foot in monetarism because he didn't actual work at US Treasury or his Majesty's Royal Treasury unlike Warren Mosler and Wynne Godley. He was also dealing with Japan which has greater restriction it's currency due to it's export strategy.
Forget populist documentaries which while having some interesting history will never match actual academic book especially those on economic history. I read a lot this because I have 2 hobbies gaming and business history. I love reading about how smart super high agency white guys created the modern world. While I enjoy the Alex Jones tier stuff as much the next poltard you have step back release of a lot business "conspiracy" and empire building wasn't all Jews but a lot of it was White men just kicking ass and being awesome and we are better off for it.
Read "Debt: the first 5000 year" and "The Collapse of Ancient Antiquity" for better answers to the money question.

stop posting wall of text slop nigger

>>512979867
The Decepticons.

>>512979831 (OP)
Inflation. Any other stupid questions?

>>513001017
hyperinflation or big great depression style crash

>>512979831 (OP)
borrow more

>>513002488
Namefag anon idk what (You)'re trying to say, also you've thrown in a bunch of red herring/ad hominem ('alex jones' , Zerohedge) there.
Regarding Richard Werner, he's the most respected expert on central banks. The principles apply to all of them (he doesn't have to "know Fed bylaws")
RE: the Federal Reserve there's another anon that posts on /pol/ with some frequency, I call him fedanon, who has extensive knowledge of the Fed's activities (look at some of the archive.4plebs threads ^^^^^above he's in there)

>'better answers'
There is no 'better' or 'best' "answer" (?? whatever <-that means).
Yes you're correct that not *all* of banking and the top ruling class is 'jews' many white Europeans were and are key

>>513002026
Money is a unit of account and only a unit of account. Account of what? It's an account of debts which are also credits. A debt is promise to get something in the future i.e. a claim on National productivity. So why does debt have value but a normal promise doesn't. Because debt is promises backed by the ability to use violence to collect.
There is no RIGHT to property or to anything else without the capacity to deal enough violence to insure exclusivity thus Violence creates property. The FIRST and HIGHEST order of in the hierarchy of PROPERTY is a Nation's Women and the the second is it's LAND i.e. the BLOOD and the SOIL are the highest order property. That's why lolbertarianism is stupid because they place the Jewish conception of "contract" ABOVE that of Blood and Soil thus inverting the natural law which why they are WORSE than Commies. Commies want to abolish Blood and Soil which is less dangerous than inverting the system of values which support a Nation's Blood and Soil.
All good economics start with the biology of reproduction i.e. territory and women. Or as Donald Trump says "grab em by the pussy"...that's the basis of money. Blood Feuds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-D5FERQzU4

>>513002026
It's a good question anon, everyone should be asking it. Refer to some of the documentaries linked/mentioned above.
In the present global Debt-Based Economic Model, 'money' is issued as debt note fiat currency by private central banks.
Look at some of my posts and references upthread, watch those documentaries (and there are far more, see some of the archive.4plebs)

RE: 'assets on paper' it's an interesting question. One of the big trends and pushes rn from both the banking/central banks sector and also the "tech"/AI Broligarchs is *tokenization* of assets. This is to enhance and seize centralized control of these from ordinary owning citizens. It's best for non-beginner anons i.e. you ought be studied on some of the rudiments of how banking and central banks, money creation operates prior to watching-reading: but the short documentary/ book 'The Great Taking' discusses some of the legal, governmental definitions of property and assets that have been laid out over decades, by the ruling class to take control when the next global crisis occurs.

>>513001017
Global collapse of the debt market
Only question is exactly ? when
It's coming

One good video to watch regarding the broader issue of 'how long can this global system go on' is a panel of experts >>512983329
December 2019 (immediately prior to covid)

>>512979867
Its mostly domestically held, but there are significant overseas debt holders like Japan and China who both hold around $1tn.

They're both trying to get out of being major bondholders now that Trump is deliberately crashing the value of the dollar to try to inflate the debt away.

>>513001017
Here's one from 10 days ago, Ed Dowd (he's gtg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUwF5C32XXA

Haven't watched all of this but this is what he predicts, mostly about financial markets

>>512981111
Checked and based.

>>512979831 (OP)
>How long can the US keep this up?
As long as Boomers are the major voting power and have all the wealth in the US, they will do everything to ensure the greediest generation to ever exist gets their Social Security check and Medicaid.
Once Boomers are gone, it will come crashing down on us.
By 2030 we will be at $60T.

>>513003110
I like Dr. Werner but he's just wrong when he says inflation is strictly due to credit supply and fiscal flows and that energy prices didn't play a role in the inflation of 2021 and 2022. The supply shock due the Ukraine War and restriction on Russian oil sells absolutely did make inflation worse above what would have happened with just the Biden sending spree. Jamie Galbraith did a very long analysis of this recent inflation and it was driven by supply shocks making it impossible to expand production enough to absolute the spending driven fiscal stimulus which is what all of PK guy said would happen with COVID because if you stimulate when you don't have the logistics or production to match you'll get supply shock inflation and that's exactly what happened with COVID lockdowns fucking up the supply chains and shutting down Chinese factories while Americans were getting COVID checks to buy said Chinese crap. Things were going to moderate when the Chinese started re-open after their COVID lockdown but then the Ukraine War happen and energy pricing went up which further delayed the already fucked up supply chain.
I was on the TRS forums at the time and told everyone inflation was coming but I was only surprised that it arrived a bit later than expected because I didn't know the high inventory levels during late 2020.

>>512979831 (OP)
That's the insidious Muslin plan to destroy us.

Lure us into long and costly conflicts util we go broke.

>>513002026
This is very interesting and a conclusion I also came to when discussing hypotheticals and non zero probabilities. I had asked myself, "What if every market participant decided to declare bankruptcy at the same time?". How would the system of exchange function or continue to exist? Well it turns out everyone cant declare bankruptcy at the same time because bankruptcy has to go through a court process. The courts are a mechanical valve directly connected to the financial system. What you think is just money changing hands is actually a more complex legality machine. Because there is more debt than money bankruptcy is baked into the framework of the system irrespective of money mismanagement. And the court is there to sort out the winners and losers, dispatching their emissaries to balance the ledger.

>>513003988
>inflation is strictly
checked, I don't think he says (or said w/ Tucker) that. That is the 'pure economic' academia definition view which is to be expected from someone like him, but he also discusses it from other perspectives and inputs.
RE: inflation itself, even in the Tucker interview which is almost three hours (I haven't finished taking notes on the second viewing) he explains that increasing money supply from central banks also has inflationary impact. The other things you mention about covid, Europe, supply, China etc. are all valid but we could spend rest of this thread and two more just discussing all the macroeconomic causes and factors of 'inflation' especially in the post-1990s global economic environment.

>>513004735
Check out the two documentaries posted upthread
>'The Money Deluge'
>'97% Owned — How is money created'
Eah gets in to some of those topics.
Yes correct the courts' defintions of 'money' and assets are crucial and as also mentioned above the more recent push for tokenization of all finance and assets, broadly (see 'The Great Taking')
it's all about centralized control, by the gov and corporations/banks in fascistic union

>>513003574
>inflate the debt away.
Not what's going on rn at all.
Read the thread

(RE: dollar valuation, Trump has since his first term wanted, and many heads of state of major nations also do for their currencies, a lower value for USD because it boosts balance of trade)

Ed Dowd, in the interview posted ^^upthread, talks at length about the housing market which was already weak and has been since 2019, that it has been additionally impacted by the Trump deportations ongoing. Home affordability is at an all-time low
We may be looking at an imminent housing crash that takes the rest of the Real Economy and stocks/asset market with it

>>512980143
In the past we used war and our influence in nations we have our military bases in to use the U.S. dollar. Now that our military power is declining because the rest of the world is catching up we can no longer force other countries to trade with the dollar. By kicking Russia out of SWIFT they developed BRICS which allows other countries to trade using their own currency instead of the dollar. It was almost as if this was all planned.

>>512981184
>as long as there is demand for dollars outside the united states
tough luck, its slipping away
Biden couldn't stop it with soft aproach, Trump is fucking everything up even daster with threats
dollar days are coming to an end

>>512979831 (OP)
It will last until our military can't be paid anymore

>"The lifeblood of our economy is credit creation." [referring to the national banking system]
— Ed Dowd (quoted in the interview ^^upthread)

the word 'credit' comes from Latin
>credere
= to believe

>>512979831 (OP)
i guess debt isn't real and money isnt real. when people wont work for the fake numbers they transmit to their bank accounts then they have to worry. but until then who cares

>>513010526
Interest Payments are real.
the global debt (bond) market is real.

>>513010716
its just both those things are denominated in a thing that is not real which is money

>>513010791
Maybe but the payments (in Interest Payments) are real
so are the sovereign treasury bond obligations

I agree the 'money' created/"printed" on a computer screen isn't real but there are other aspects to the system.
Watch some of the references posted above. ('97% Owned')
The Richard Werner interview with Tucker, also the shorter YouTube clip ^^^^^^^

>>512980727
>>512980915
>>512981810
Oh, so you guys don't see the dialectical mergers and aquisitions being played just like '33 to get everyone on digital, be it PBDC, CBDC, or stablecoin? You three are so close.

>>512981173
Howard sure is lucky...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8Kl2IfF2_o

>>512979831 (OP)
>how long can the US keep this up
Forever as long as the euroindians can't keep their own economy afloat.
South America is thriving, USA is stable, and every eastern country is dying.
So yeah

>>513012653
Maybe but I still don't see how this works globally for the massively interleaved jenga tower ponzi that is the global Financialized system today.
See my other posts upthread. There's all the derivatives, plus sovereign debt (most of which is denominated and needs to be paid back in USD), the eurodollar hidden network of time dependent deposits that almost nobody has access to and magnitude of which (like derivatives) is totally unknown and is almost totally exchanged and denominated in USD, etc.
In other words, there's no resemblance or comparison of the 21st century Financialized global economy to the pre-World War II (pre-Bretton Woods) one, whatsoever.
Also, see the Ed Dowd interview I just ^^^posted above: they spend the last part of it talking all about gold, Fort Knox, what the U.S. Treasury's forthwith plan may ?? be etc.

>>513012854
>USA is stable
Far from it

see my earliest post upthread archive.4plebs.org

>>512979831 (OP)
It can't keep it up, Trump was elected to fix it but he's made it worse so far, no audit of the Pentagon, doge was a joke in a lot of ways, just a data mining exercise and a way to cut welfare. The tariffs were the last hope but the deficit is even outpacing the tariff income so far.
It really shouldn't be that hard to balance the books for fucks sake.

>>513013374
>I still don't see how this works globally for the massively interleaved jenga tower ponzi
Wake up.
https://www.bis.org/about/bisih/topics/cbdc/dunbar.htm

https://www.bis.org/about/bisih/topics/cbdc/mcbdc_bridge.htm

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/key/date/2014/html/sp140722.en.html

And all you need is a cyber pandemic to clean the ledger of the speculative drivel accounting black hole you just mentioned. This is why I liken it to '33.
https://www.weforum.org/videos/a-cyber-attack-with-covid-like-characteristics/

https://reports.weforum.org/docs/WEF_Global_Cybersecurity_Outlook_2025.pdf

>they spend the last part of it talking all about gold, Fort Knox, what the U.S. Treasury's forthwith plan may ?? be etc
Enough of the literal whos and retarded speculation. Nixon ended any value in having reserves in '73, and the GENIUS act already paves the way for stablecoins backed by anything they want... speculative debt, oil, gold, data, mortgages. All of this is clear as day, for it is going into the hands of a public-private partnership abetting the multipolar, regional governance and myriad technocratic fifedoms instead of some grand unifying currency.

>>513013708
I already know all that (what BIS is planning, ECB). None of it addresses the eurodollar network, the vast uncharted derivative market.
Have (You) seen/read the book 'The Great Taking'? He did a lot of deep research into how the central controllers plan to seize assets, they've been meticulously constructing this over decades.

>WEF covid crisis
Idgaf about any of that. Any kind of mass global 'grid down' scenario simply means that the banking system itself is totally destroyed. There's no redundancy or backup, all of our banking globally is already (never mind all the crypto 'CBDC' hysterics) electronic from the consumer point-of-sale all the way up to investment bank HNW inter-account transactions

I'm not saying you're wrong about any of the things you posted. Just that it doesn't amount to anything in terms of how totally beyond fubar the global economic system is, in fact even the stuff you posted is chuckle-worthy compared to blitzedly fucked everything is. Nobody on /pol/ or the internet has any earthly idea
sorry for the blackpill

>>513014061
They talk about all of that in the interview. Watch it, come back here and critique

>retarded, "literal who," speculation
Ed Dowd is a lot smarter and more informed than (You) or me. His analysis is highly informed and reserved thorough speculation based on detailed analysis. If you were being sarcastic you're forgiven, if not then I'm not taking any more posts from (You) seriously. When posting anywhere on the internet, humility is paramount otherwise you instantly come off as a shill or fake

>>513014109
>Have (You) seen/read the book 'The Great Taking'?
Yes, baill-ins and Iceland model is something maybe you and I can agree upon.

>>512979831 (OP)
Reminder: debt-holders aren't immune to JDAMs.

>>512979867
The federal reserve (jews).

>>513014109
>WEF covid crisis
You didn't catch my drift... read what I linked. COVID was proof of concept for Malthusian financial takeover. The dressing presented during COVID was a sickness, but the real game being war gamed was to see if people would cave to digitized identity after a major catastrophe. This is the lynchpin to the dialectical crunch. From crypto as the crook, to the three financial instruments I listed above as the flail once it goes live. The rest of the bait to get people prepared will go the same as '33.

>>513014299
Sure that could be one format they try to implement.
again though: Based on my years of study of this stuff, I'm not confident that the central banks'/ others best laid plans for CBDC etc. are going to go the way they plan. If a major catastrophe or plan-tastrophe occurs they're going to have enough of a problem just trying to keep a lid on mass societal chaos not to mention keeping the power grid/water supplies etc. functional.
There's not going to be another 2020-style global lockdown I'm reasonably confident of that, globalism/WEF had their high water 15 minutes mark

>>513014476
>digitized identity
I don't buy the push or veracity, implementability of this. See post immediately before (You)rs
(yes I'm well aware that this is what they *want*/desire to implement)

>>512980844
>Subbed.

>Nobody on /pol/ or the internet has any earthly idea
>sorry for the blackpill
I know exactly how bad things are... you and I are both entering the orbit of neofeudalism whether any of us like it.
>None of it addresses the eurodollar network
What am I missing? Third link.
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/key/date/2014/html/sp140722.en.html

>>513014206
>Watch it, come back here and critique
I form my own opinions without listening to someone soliloquize to some bogged hag with a goytube channel.

>>513014542
>I don't buy the push or veracity, implementability of this
You are delusional. 80% of the population accepted COVID ID, digital ID without outright calling it such, with a smile. Again, what do you think GENIUS act on the heels of all of the internet ID, medical database from Trump with Microsoft and openai is about? You seem well informed, but seriously blind to reality of the final circles on our way down the drain...

>>513014486
>CBDC etc. are going to go the way they plan
That's the point, anon. This is dialectics 101. It's why I linked you Tether and mentioned GENIUS act. crypto is the crook, the lead into the domain of digital, CBDC is going to be the speculative dinosaur, and this is where GENIUS PBDC and stablecoins come into play... the "capitalist open market" solution. Like I said, it's not going to be one financial instrument alone. The posture is regional stewardship.
>I'm reasonably confident of that, globalism/WEF had their high water 15 minutes mark
Did I ever dispute this? I keep telling you, I see the multipolar governance/financial control as their methodology, but they are setting the table for that status quo.

>>512979831 (OP)
>How long can the US keep this up?
Forever. It's not real debt and it never has to be paid. If you had a bank that would lend you vast amounts of money that you never had to pay back you'd be an imbecile to not be in debt.

>>513013480
You're shitposting.

>europe in complete industrial spiral
>china on it's third housing crisis bubble pop in 10 years
>russia being russia(?)
if your economy is the least chaotic economy, that makes it stable.

>they're going to have enough of a problem just trying to keep a lid on mass societal chaos
Damn, you are blind to manufactured consent. What does ordo ab chao mean to you? Pull your head out of you ass and look down the barrel of the multi-pronged shit show they are building to rug pull this entire ponzi scheme out from everyone and make them accept the new terms of financial participation.

>>513014641
>>513014756
>'I form my own opinions'
evidently, and can keep them

>'seriously blind'
Dude, it's time to stop posting.

(as regards the U.K. situation, they are beyond a lost cause as is Europe broadly. I simply do not care what occurs anywhere in Europe or Asia except as it impacts the global debt market. In fact I'll go as far as saying that I no longer care about anything in earthly human civilization reality or events, except the global debt market and what really annoys me is people that go around claiming the sky is falling about ____________ When they have zero comprehension about what is going on with the global debt (bond) market.)

>>513014977
checked,
One thing I am not doing is shitposting. (You) are the shitposter itt

>>513002754
>Debtcepticons

>>513015015
what (You) posted there is meaningless drivel and for all I know you're paranoid schizophrenic. But I do not know (You) personally. Anyway with each new post (You) become more unhinged

>AI slop reaction
Oh, okay, so you are monitoring the thread. Hope anyone else found what I dropped useful and will ignore this judas goat's comped faggotry.
>watch this youtube video about FORT KNOX
I should have known right there...

>schizo
Make it more obvious, lackey.

>>513015177
>AI / ad hominem
What, the image?
that was from the original late 2023 tranche that hit /pol/
(You)'re either a schizo, a moron, or a deliberate JIDF 5Eyes NGO shill disrupting this thread I'm starting to think 3. because (You) indeed have carpet bombed the train of discourse itt

>>512979831 (OP)
the debt is imaginary.
do away with the federal reserve and start over with a nonjewed system.

>video about Fort Knox HURR DURR !!!!111!!
That is not what it is.
(also weird that (You)'re trying to distract from established fin-consultant Dowd who also was one of the leading researchers against the vaxjab and covid lockdown death statistics.... agenda confirmed)

>>513015316
>debt is imaginary
Are interest payments imaginary?

>>512979867
>doesn't know

ngmi

>>513015339
You are dropping videos of kabbalah string carlson like they are some kind of diamond in the rough. Against the wall. No one is buying what you are selling.
>>513015316
Look at this niggers reply to your truthful statement... what a comped retard trying his best to blend in.

Put you in parentheses some more, that will make you look like a real greybeard oldfag. The only thing that should be in parentheses is (((NITfh1UV))).

>>513015428
renounce the talmud, schmuley

>>513015476
The word is denounce, and I denounce the talmud. Now denounce your contract with clean up on aisle 4chan. You can't faggot.

>>512979831 (OP)
In debt to what, the decipticons?

You mean the rothschilds are in debt, Right?

Get better reaction images, clean up crew lackeys.

>the least chaotic economy
>makes it stable

??
What does "least chaotic" or "most stable" even mean?
Watch (just for example, there are a ton of other example we could each randomly pick from the August 2025 news-sphere about economics and finance) the Ed Dowd interview above.
He predicts a U.S. housing crash, and a 40 percent drop in stocks. Affordability and consumer credit are out of control in the United States, people are purchasing their weekly groceries on credit cards, jobs numbers are cratering (even *with* the U.S. clearing out its corrupt/inaccurate BLS bureacracy)
Where's the "stability"? Consumer and poll sentiment about the economy is worse than its been in 2 decades, things are not getting 'better' in the United States by any metric.
All the western, and China, economies are facing similar scale of re-calibrating and collapse throughout their systems.
The only reason U.S. is seen as "doing better" is, as we've partly hashed out and mentioned upthread, we are still the world's default reserve currency 'the prettiest belle at the ball'. That's the only reason. Once the dollar goes, we become like any other third world country (and are already when you take a look around our urban centers). Why else do you think in D.C. (a locale where fedgov can at least directly assert jurisdiction) the adminstration is implementing 'cleanup and order' measures with National Guard right now? Because of the *chaos*
This country is falling apart at the seams and the ruling establishment is performing happy talk measures to convince us that it's not

>Anonymous (ID: +aqKDovk) 19 pbtid
Was assigned to this topic by ______ (??) to disrupt and carpet bomb it.

>>513014924
>Forever
Wrong.

see upthread ^^^^^^ my first post with archive.4plebs

Not just the magnitude of the debt itself, but the Interest Payments (see graph upthread) which have now outstripped the gov's own annual discretionary spending
Not possible to take out 'infinite' quantity of debt and defer making Interest Payments on it

That's the fiscal/monetary tandem policies rubicon that has been reached, as far as expanding the gigabubble is concerned. Any more expansion of debt magnitude (bubble) and ability to continue inflating said bubble, will be strapped away by Interest Payments.
(also see posts upthread, the only way to continue the 'forever-inflation-of-bubble' paradigm, which itself just makes the overall problems worse no matter what, is to get U.S. annual gdp growth up to around 5 or 6 percent from its current anemic 2 percent)

God I hate jew money systems. So convoluded and gay.

>>513010020
The global debt market will have imploded long before then.
(I'm not even worried nor care about the fate of the United States in particular, in fact we're already finished stick a fork in us)

>>512980532
>Obama do this
presidents don't increase the debt, Congress does.
Fiscal policy, the U.S. Congress holds the purse strings. Through multiple presidential administrations it's Congress that has put us all on a path to $2T annual deficits
The 535 members of Congress are the ones responsible

>>512979867
>Who do we owe the Interest Payments to?
Ftfy