Thread 514967156

Jobs and opportunities are not a fixed sum. One person working doesn't take away your ability to work. One person producing wealth doesn't take away your ability to produce wealth. In fact, one person producing wealth gives you greater opportunity to magnify your wealth creation via cooperation and trade. Who would be richer, 1 man on an island trying to solve all his needs, or 10 people on an island all working together via specialization to produce more wealth for everyone? The answer should be obvious. More people means more specialization and comparative advantage and a higher per capita sum for everyone.

Wages have only stagnated for forty years when you include three main goods, housing, education, and healthcare. Most consumer goods have declined as a fraction of average income. Food only appears more expensive because disposable incomes have declined (due to elevated rent levels and student debt interest). Ignoring increased costs of rent, education, healthcare, almost every good has declined in price.

So now lets solve the problem, why have these three goods exceeded average income? Besides atomic energy and military equipment, these are the three most regulated industries in the economy. Zoning laws and permitting has exponentially increased, NIMBY boomers have made newer dense housing constructions impossible, especially in city outskirts. We graduate slightly more doctors than we did in the 80s, despite the population increasing by 56%, and government action has exploded demand for post-secondary while regulation has capped the expansion of University systems. These issues of course are compounded by massive government deficits and monetary expansion, channelling resources away from productive enterprise and towards the special interest groups (i.e boomers) that collect most of the taxes.

>>514967156 (OP)
BTFO

>>514967156 (OP)
somehow you need to hide your flag when posting this?

Just very easily explain supply and demand for me.
All the mental gymnastics employed to justify reasons is why you lost this battle.

They are economic debt slaves, it does not increase the wealth of any nation. But it increases the GDP, which is not a good metric by any means for wealth.

>>514967156 (OP)
considering the food is now mass produced garbage, and real food is much more expensive and the price would shoot way up if more people ate real food, your point about food is false. Also, Mass immigration is done at points of inflation to cause wage suppression to make the lower classes eat it instead of the rich and political who cause it.

>>514968782
>Just very easily explain supply and demand for me.

Something that proves my point.

Increasing the supply of goods and services lowers their relative price.

Labor is an input factor in increasing the supply and demand for goods.

Therefore, more people and access to more markets, will increase your standard of living.

>They are economic debt slaves, it does not increase the wealth of any nation.

Paying random workers in random factories CEO level wages and paying dishwashers more than Bezos won't make anyone richer, it will destroy your currency.

>>514968879
>considering the food is now mass produced garbage, and real food is much more expensive and the price would shoot way up if more people ate real food, your point about food is false

This is totally irrelevant to my point.

You can eat organic if you want, even so, immigrant labor can produce organic food too.

>Mass immigration is done at points of inflation to cause wage suppression to make the lower classes eat it instead of the rich and political who cause it.

Mass immigration lowers inflation which boosts real wages. Immigrant farm labor keeps prices of things like food and construction low, which means your wage has more purchasing power when consuming these items.

>>514967156 (OP)
>>514968725
nice samefag, samefag

>>514967156 (OP)
Money doesn't matter if the country is full of third world people

>>514967156 (OP)
>you should listen to jews telling you to do the opposite of what jews do all the time
how about fuck you, being ethnocentric is good

>>514967156 (OP)
It’s always has been about negotiating power and organizational/unity/cohesion capabilities


With open borders workers loose both

When you lose both it becomes a race to the bottom for working class peoples life conditions

But you already knew that kike
I would rather serve in heaven than rule in hell

>>514967156 (OP)
>main goods, housing, education, and healthcare costs are skyrocketing but the price of locomotives is down 80%
you talk like russian propaganda in the mid 1980's when communism was falling apart

You're trading social capital for economic growth. There's more money in the society but the society is worse in all other ways.

>>514967156 (OP)
Cry more. The foreign pigs will be dragged from their homes and deported. You WILL hire Americans and you WILL do it at a nice, high price, and if you attempt to outsource it we will tarrif your shitkissing ass into the next millennium.

We don't need to negotiate. We don't need to compromise. We have no desire to do either. You have no choice except to obey. The foreign pigs are going back, and they're lucky we're letting them leave alive.

>>514967156 (OP)
Anon you have to actually show your flag when you are talking about “wages stagnating”. What actual nationality are you? are you Turkish?

>>514969895
Jews and Crypto Jews bring in cheap foreign labor all the time, and have free trade.

Israel and UAE have free trade, and bring in foreign labor all the time to work. They just don't let them vote or hold citizenship and send them back when they're not needed, but they are not protectionists.

>>514969986
You know that's complete bullshit.

>>514970104
I never once said locomotives are down 80%

>>514968917
But most countries including America and Canada have minimum wage laws that make it impossible to profit from low wages. If you could bring in unlimited illegals and make use of low wages (you cant because its illegal) - why is outsourcing still done?

Why not pay illegals 50 bucks a month to work in factories instead of outsourcing to china/

Economist pretend life isn’t zero sum when it obviously is accordion to biology. It’s just more magical religious thinking.

>>514970303
There's ways to solve that.

If immigrants were brought in on visas that allowed them to work, but they couldn't vote and could be deported on a moments notice... all the social consequences of having them could be mitigated.

>>514970342
Trump already said he's ordering DHS and ICE to ignore farms and hotels and to target urban illegals. He also is negotiating free trade deals right now that bring back all the free trade stipulations that he pretended to get rid of, of and Federal Judges are slapping down his tariffs.

Cry more.

>>514967156 (OP)
>if you dont believe in turning your country into a shopping center for low IQ niggers you're economically illiterate.

Listen here samefag, I put having a nation that is a home for my people way above your faggoty disney dollars that continue to lose value as soon as its deposited in my checking account. Eat shit.

>>514970412
Canadian.

>>514970538
>But most countries including America and Canada have minimum wage laws that make it impossible to profit from low wages. If you could bring in unlimited illegals and make use of low wages (you cant because its illegal) - why is outsourcing still done?

and that's why I mentioned regulation.


Minimum wage is a regulation, and it's a horrible regulation. We should repeal it.

>>514967156 (OP)
Standard of living and economics are not the same thing

Examples
Would you rather
A) Live in a rich country with a overwhelming population density stacked in like insects with every race of people together in a low trust hellhole with cameras everywhere
B) Live in a poorer country but you have more space, less trash around and an ethnically homogenous high trust society that doesnt even require constant survielance.

Another example
A) Rich country high gdp, low gdp per capita
B) Poorer country, lower gdp, but you have more money per capita

A) Rich country with goyslop food
B) Poorer country with natural ingredients

Basically you cannot corrilate gdp and quality of life because there is alot more things that go into quality of life than money.

>>514970669
And why are they continuing to lose value?

>>514968917
>Therefore, more people and access to more markets, will increase your standard of living
micro states like Lichtenstein, Switzerland, or Iceland have much higher standard of living than high population nations like China, India, or even the US.
your theoretical arguments arent reflected with real world data.
at the end: smaller population size = easier way for wealth restribution, while higher population even though it might be globally stronger, always leads to wealth restribution problems

>>514969002
>Mass immigration lowers inflation
Immigrants get into debt too, creating new money via new debt slaves. Which causes inflation.
Literally more money in the supply

>>514967156 (OP)
>piilpul bullshit
shut the fuck up, jew

>>514970744
I know that, but assuming a migrant comes in to work, they are very likely to raise GDP per capita.

If you have a country with 10 people, and 5 of them are retired, you only have 5 people producing for all 10.

If now another 5 come in and all work, you now have 10 workers producing for 15... a higher % of the population is now productive.

And even if those migrants come in and lower GDP per capita, that doesn't mean your standard of living goes down. The UAE and Saudi Arabia love bringing in migrant labor to work for $5/hour serving the rich and driving taxis. They bring down GDP/capita, but they increase the real wages of the Sauds and UAE citizens who can now purchase an abundance of cheap goods.

>>514970774
>micro states like Lichtenstein, Switzerland, or Iceland have much higher standard of living than high population nations like China, India, or even the US.

That's sloppy analysis. The reason these microstates exist in the first place is because a coalition of wealthy aristocrats succeeded from broader states to avoid taxes and to seek political control of their own autonomous unit.

They are separate small nations BECAUSE they are rich, they aren't rich because they are small.

There's lots of microstates like Equitorial Guinea that are total shitholes.

>>514970890
Central bank controls money supply, it's already predetermined by the central bank how much money will be created per deposit levels. An immigrant taking out a loan and "creating" money means the bank has less money to loan out to someone else, who otherwise would have "created' that money by taking out a loan.

All things being equal, adding a new person to an economy doesn't expand the money supply

>>514971059
But gdp comes from labour productivity. If people aren’t productive it doesnt matter how many there are.

>>514970752
Mulititude of reasons, if I have to choose between my money becoming worthless because of funding gibs to illegals or rising prices because of tariffs, Ill choose the tariffs any fucking day.

>>514971255
Yeah the paradigm around migration doesnt ask “do we have to subsidize people in order to get their labour” and we not only subsidize them but have other externalities like gangs and crime.

>>514967156 (OP)
Well it sounds like we need to fix the underlying problems before we allow unrestricted immigration, otherwise we'll be forced to pay higher prices for limited resources while competing with foreigners who are willing to accept lower wages.

>>514967156 (OP)
>wall of text
commie

>>514967156 (OP)
Rapid increase in population without massive increase in productivity per person, which is something immigration does, leads to uncontrolled inflation of the natural variety(supply stays as it was but demand grows).
That there's some trickleback from profit margins increasing doesn't change this. An immigrant isn't going to end up in the middle of nowhere, no he will go to places where for instance water and real estate supply are already strained(big city), that it'll end with Walmart maybe making more cash or slightly lowering prices will be drowned by this strain alone.
Furthermore mass immigration puts a strain on entry level jobs, hurting people who are at the beginning stages of their career, so preference to it is a sign of classical boomer logic of après moi, le déluge.
Lastly and that's something that you can especially see when more tribal people show up(like Indians) is that economists have a blind spot on politics. And I don't mean "the constitution" or something but rather the basal "making other people do what you want them to do to your personal or group benefit". You may be an individualist but a jeet isn't you, so the classic cycle of hire one jeet and few years later an entire department is made of them will repeat itself. He acts politically instead of being meritocratic and it doesn't matter if it leads to 5% lower productivity because companies are rarely brought down by that.

If you want immigration to work you have to adopt an Arab way of it, where the autochtones become welfare queens with massive privileges all while effectively slave labour or immigrant makes things spin. But you won't see libertarians advocating for that.

>>514971358
You inevitably subsidizing their labor because they end up voting for their craven desires rather than the interest of the nation.

>>514971059
>They are separate small nations BECAUSE they are rich, they aren't rich because they are small.
you are just looking at it from a purely economical lense, while ignoring historical, cultural, and political decisions that lead to the creation of micro states.
your argument is purely a causality claim, when in reality microstates got rich while making good political decisions.

Also I would like for you to respond to the argument of wealth restribution. you would surely agree that smaller polulations enables much better wealth restribution (higher population = more bureaucracy meaning less effiecency), right?

>>514971174
Money is created with every single loan
Yes even when you take out a mortgage with your normal bank.
The central bank which shouldnt exist in the first place facilitates it.

>>514971059
GDP nor GDP per capita =/= quality of life
There were plenty of other examples I gave
Like population density, social cohesion, having a high trust society, having a non corporate poisioned food supply.
All of those things are more important.

Thats not to say raising gdp is bad, but if it comes at the cost of these other things then quality of life has decreased even if you have more money.

>>514971217
If somebody comes in and works for $5 an hour but they produce $6 worth of goods per hour. They are still a net contributer to the nation. They are producing more than they are extracting.

>>514971255
Your money wouldn't become worthless funding gibs to illegals if we abolished all gibs problems, especially gibs to illegals.

>>514971434
Ok then lets fix the problem, not deport our labor force, crash GDP, and nuke our wages.

>>514971486
>If you want immigration to work you have to adopt an Arab way of it, where the autochtones become welfare queens with massive privileges all while effectively slave labour or immigrant makes things spin. But you won't see libertarians advocating for that.

That's literally what I advocate for.

>Lastly and that's something that you can especially see when more tribal people show up(like Indians) is that economists have a blind spot on politics. And I don't mean "the constitution" or something but rather the basal "making other people do what you want them to do to your personal or group benefit". You may be an individualist but a jeet isn't you, so the classic cycle of hire one jeet and few years later an entire department is made of them will repeat itself. He acts politically instead of being meritocratic and it doesn't matter if it leads to 5% lower productivity because companies are rarely brought down by that.

And this is why I say the migrants are not citizens, they're migrant workers and can be deported the moment they cause any trouble.

>Rapid increase in population without massive increase in productivity per person, which is something immigration does, leads to uncontrolled inflation of the natural variety(supply stays as it was but demand grows). That there's some trickleback from profit margins increasing doesn't change this. An immigrant isn't going to end up in the middle of nowhere, no he will go to places where for instance water and real estate supply are already strained(big city), that it'll end with Walmart maybe making more cash or slightly lowering prices will be drowned by this strain alone.

I'd have to look at the analysis to see if they take in more public funds than they produce in net increase in taxes. Because if so that's an issue. Any "illegal immigrant welfare" issues can be solved by simply cutting their welfare.

Anyone not white repulses me and therefore violates the NAP so I am entitled to physically remove them.

>>514971581
Then don't let them vote.

>>514971766
>Money is created with every single loan

Which starves the bank from a deposit to loan to somebody else. Banks can't just create money indefinitely. It's determined by reserve requirements. If reserve requirements are 10%, than for every dollar injected into the banking system by the central bank, you'll see $9 new dollars created by the bank. Taking out a loan from the bank won't change this, it will just mean less loans for others.

>Thats not to say raising gdp is bad, but if it comes at the cost of these other things then quality of life has decreased even if you have more money.

Having an army of low cost workers producing cheap food and taxi services does boost your quality of life though.

>>514972206
>Having an army of low cost workers producing cheap food and taxi services does boost your quality of life though.
Not if you have to interact with them.

Your entire arguement is lets have diversity because we can use them as slave labour, but I dont want to live in a diverse economic zone formally known as a nation state.

If you really want your arguement to work you need to colonise another land and just have them send you stuff and never let them step foot on your land

>>514967156 (OP)
This is all correct.
All classical economics theory agrees with this.
Free trade and immigration have always increased prosperity.

>>514967156 (OP)
Fuck the economy, I just don't want brown people near me.

>>514972832
If you keep them out of site by housing them on farms like many illegals in the South and West are... you don't interact with them.

I don't want to crash the economy by having farm workers paid more than Jeff Bezos, making a piece of bread $300.

>>514972920
Incredibly based.

>>514973031
Or you keep them out of sight because they dont share a land border with you.
Your arguement only works if you collonise somewhere.
Else you're just creating your own demise

Basically you should follow the old empire ways and not the new american slavery method where you live in the same country as them

>>514973031
And not only do free trade and immigration increase prosperity, as all classical economics argues, but they also decrease, substantially, the potential for war by tying different countries and peoples together.

>>514973318
Ideally yes but the market dictates it's much more efficient for them to come here and work on already established farms.

Mexico is a shitshow with unstable institutions. We can't just go and build a bunch of farms there and ship the goods back. There's too many problems politically and security wise to do that, but ideally it would be better.

>>514973746
100%.. although this can be used against unrestricted free trade because it can create dependency.

If we depend too much on Taiwan for their microships, all China has to do is annex Taiwan and they got us by the balls.

That's why I'm protectionist but only for national security related goods, such as military supply chains, and vital goods like Microships. I supported the CHIPs act for that reason.

>>514967156 (OP)
Counterpoint: my quality of life dramatically decreases with every single poojeet that comes within a 100 mile radius of me therefore, I want no immgrants.

>>514967156 (OP)
mass immigration created a flood of labor supply while the demand stays the same. Oh look you are debunked in one sentence

>>514967156 (OP)
We aren't blind to the standard of living sharply decreasing, our cities becoming significantly more dangerous, our infrastructure crumbling due to unskilled third-world laborers, our wages not keeping up with inflation due to the import of new labor that will work for less money and in shit conditions, and our Constitutionally guaranteed liberties being stripped away thanks to third-worlders voting against them.

You are asking us to pretend that USA wasn't practically a paradise prior to the Hart-Cellar Act. Fuck off.

>>514974049
I don't even mind tying different countries together for military capabilities, as long as some basic trust already exists between them. A global state should be the ultimate goal, with all people being one people united in a single culture, ultimately, and living in a free government with guaranteed and strong rights, like all of the Bill of Rights granted to everyone on the planet.
When elites are dependent on certain countries for the defense of their position, though their wealth is generated globally, this creates tension between the country and the global economy. Elites remain "national" elites or the elites of a specific country, while the economy is global, and this means that if another country's home elites challenge another country's elites, then each side can begin to target whatever economic interests of their rival exists within their own country.
Better to have an international elite, ultimately, that is not protected by the military of a specific state, but by a single global state, and a very free one at that.

>>514973746
>immigration increase prosperity
Even if I agreed with you I'd rather be poor without brownoids than rich with them. Take your multi-racial free market cultist ideology and shove it up your ass with all the other Jewish refuse.

>>514974549
>our infrastructure crumbling due to unskilled third-world laborers
Their work quality is not the cause of our crumbling infrastructure. The fact that so much infrastructure has barely been maintained and updated in decades, even generations (many sewer systems in the US are more than 100 years old), is why our infrastructure is failing.
Immigrant maintenance workers are better than none at all, which has been the problem with our infrastructure for decades now: leaving it to decay because no one wants to pay for it.

>>514974357
>demand stays the same (obviously bullshit)
>flood of a production input that boosts the supply of goods and services (increase supply of wage input goods)

Oh look, you didn't even make an argument, let alone debunk anything.

>>514974818
Then go be poor. Be homeless for a while and get back to me.
Then you'll realize the truth of what poverty means for countries and populations. There is no comfortable poverty, just slightly bearable poverty, and it's only bearable for a while.
You have no idea what being poor is if you think it's better than living around brown people.
Seriously, go spend a year in a tent city.
I grew up poor and frequently homeless, and am now a millionaire, so I know what I am talking about when it comes to this.

>>514974549
So why don't you focus on solving your standard of living crisis rather than blame immigrants, the one group that is boosting GDP, wages, and productivity?

Fuck off.


>>514974776
I would support that too but my issue is I've seen the expansionary nature of the Federal Government. It doesn't just sit back and regulate interstate commerce and ensure free movement and trade between States, it eventually expands until it's like the U.S government today, involved in every facet of life.

>>514967156 (OP)
All of the increase in living standards over the past two centuries has ultimately been due to scarce labor compelling capital to invest in technology to cut labor costs, thereby increasing productivity and general abundance. Cheap mass labor is a deathtrap that leads to stagnation, depressed wages and degeneration in the quality of goods in the long-term.

>>514974916
Ideal solution would be for the U.S to begin repaying it's national debt, putting more capital in the hands of bond holders and supplying the capital markets with funds.

If States want to invest in rebuilding their infrastructure with new loanable funds they are free to do so, but it will be on their credit card.

>>514975139
Automation and mechanization is only a good thing when cheap labor isn't available. When cheap labor is available, the capital needed to invest in automation can then be allocated elsewhere where it can generate a higher rate of return.

If we deported all the cheap farm labor and farmers had to invest in mechanization, they would be drawing capital away from banks and private credit funds that would otherwise be investing in other enterprises. It's better to use cheap labor when possible so other industries can have capital abundance.

>>514974992
why would demand of anything go up if you flood a country with no skill jeets? That's how you get lines of hundreds of people applying to a job that's barely average. It seems that you don't live in real life

>>514967156 (OP)
Von Mises' economic policies were literally so bad that the Austrians decided to kick his entire ethnic group out of Austria.

>>514971174
Hahahah...loanable funds theory. No. Banks loan out of their despots. Loans create despots. You don't know anything about how the real economy work.
GDP is measure of transactions. There's ZERO evidence that MORE transaction means a better quality of life or even lack of oppression. I always recall that one filler episode of Dragonball GT where Goku ends up on a planet where every door and faucet is coin operated. The planet must have an unbelievable GDP per capita but even a child knows that living that way would be hell. Only an economist could believe such fantasy that more transaction=better.

>>514975050
Oh no I might have less goyslop because graph go down! Your attempt to scare me into accepting shitskins is pathetic, I've lived in places with the kind of "enrichment" you worship before and I infinitely prefer the peace of mind of living among actual human beings rather than brownoid subhumans who are one neuron twitch away from chimping at all times.
>I grew up poor and frequently homeless, and am now a millionaire, so I know what I am talking about when it comes to this.
I'll file that away with all the other testimonies from 4chan millionaires.

>>514967156 (OP)
Lolbert cope. Real free trade has been tried and it failed.

>>514970532
>be rich islander with hotel
>Make 5mil pure profits per season
>pay your greek workers barely above min wage(massive unpaid overtime and away from home)
>greek workers demand more money since you make massive profits
>'How about i hire this Albanian for even less?'
>Greek worker either starves or works for less or becomes the Albanian in Germany or something


And sooner or later 'Nobosy wants to work, let's bring a million jeets .'
> In fact, one person producing wealth gives you greater opportunity to magnify your wealth creation via cooperation.......

>>514967156 (OP)
There is a finite amount of land.

>>514967156 (OP)
>all working together
This is where you fucked up

>>514975787
*Nobody

And the example is from a small family business not Hilton hotels and very real

>>514971174
>Central bank controls money supply,

Wrong. All new debt is more money circulating

>>514975328
Where do you think the great reduction in the cost of consumer goods achieved by the modern world came from? It didn't come from cheap labor, it came from machines/technology/automation. Food became cheaper because the productivity of agriculture increased via machines. We produce far more food with far less workers. What you're advocating for is a return to pre-industrial China where everyone lived at the edge of cannibalistic famine but they dominated the world economy through sheer numbers.

>>514967156 (OP)
Mostly true, however, we have to deal with the context we have, not the context we wish we had.
If housing is more expensive due to regulations there's no reason to make the situation worse by artificially increasing the demand for housing. If you want immigration and affordable homes, reduce immigration and deregulate the housing sector. Once this problem is solved, then you can begin selectively bringing people in (ie: the American O-1 visa).

>>514967156 (OP)
>one person working does not take away your ability to work
As you know, there are a finite number of jobs on the job market at any time and a finite number of job seekers. If the supply of jobs stays the same but the demand (number of job seekers) increases, what do you think happens to wages, benefits and the time it takes to find a job?

>>514975427
1. Jeets spend money too

2. Lowering the production costs of goods lowers the input cost of labor, by lowering cost of living. This lowers the required wage of workers to achieve the same standard of living, and raises quantity demanded of labor in all other fields.

>>514975604
You know nothing about economics.

You think Friedman didn't know about Fractional Reserve banking? There is still a limited potential of money creation for every deposit the Central Bank injects into the economy.

You don't know economics or science.

Explain away this phenomenon

https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/etude-speciale/special-report_240115.pdf

>>514975706
It has worked 100% of the time.

>>514975995
Which mitigates the creation of other debts and restrains the increas ein the money supply.

>>514976083
Cheap labor is what allowed for the formation of capital to be invested in mechanization in the first place. Trying to force it is like implementing price controls. It distorts the market and doesn't work.

>>514976304
>Lowering the production costs of goods lowers the input cost of labor, by lowering cost of living. This lowers the required wage of workers to achieve the same standard of living, and raises quantity demanded of labor in all other fields.

If this was true whatsoever you would have seem wages naturally decline over time as goods become more plentiful. That doesn't happen.

>>514976225
>As you know, there are a finite number of jobs on the job market at any time and a finite number of job seekers. If the supply of jobs stays the same but the demand (number of job seekers) increases, what do you think happens to wages, benefits and the time it takes to find a job?

That's not how it works. If someone gets a job, they now produce, spend, invest, and that facilitates the creation of another job.

Unemployment was about 6% in England when the world had 1 billion people. Imagine telling someone back then with your mindset that eventually the world would have 8 billion people. They'd go "DOES THAT MEAN 7.05 BILLION PEOPLE DONT HAVE JOBS?"

As the population expands, jobs are created.

>>514972206
No. It doesn't work that way. There are no reserve requirements at all since 2008 and the cash to fill requirements even in the older system aren't created by customers deposits but by the FED. You have no idea what you are talking about i.e. a typical economist who never been involved with banking. Banks do NOT and CANNOT lend out reserves or deposits. That's literally fraud and breach of contract.
My account is my account and has no bearing on whether or not our Bank decided to lend to you or not. The loan is based on your income and your personal likelyhood of repayment and they don't take anything from my account at all. They offer by asking the system to expand reserves and then borrow to their own books when they then lend against as new bank credit and then that new credit is listed at your debt and their asset because you promised to pay back with interest. The number of other depositors has nothing to do with that transaction. It's just you and the banks issue. There is no fractional reserve...it's 100% fictional reserve system. No gold, no claims on gold deposits from other clients...none that exists in modern banking. There's nothing in any economics book written about economics from before 1970 that applies to the modern world. Absolutely nothing.

>>514976420
So as they explain in the article.

We're increasing the population but not allowing for appropriate infrastructure to catch up (housing, etc).

In the 1880s we actually had a higher % increase. in population and real wages increased 5% a year.

>>514976650
It seems as if human mammals have a carrying capacity... doesn't it...

>>514976527
>If this was true whatsoever you would have seem wages naturally decline over time as goods become more plentiful. That doesn't happen.

So first off, im referring to relative wages. Monetary expansion ensures that nominal wages are always going up.

Second, that is exactly what you see. Wages decline for the employer but increase for the employee. That's the magic of higher productivity, everyone gets richer.

It's now profitable for a business to hire someone to hold a sign in public, or to push a door for an elevator, or to do all sorts of dumb shit, because the relative cost of hiring them is much lower due to productivity.

Had we lived in the 1400s, it would have been way too expensive for any enterprise to hire anyone to do that stuff.

Whatever. All I know Streetshitters are working at google and I'm not.

in b4 ur retarded.

>>514976631
You have no understanding of fractional reserve. They do loan out the deposits, it's just that they maintain the deposit amount as a liability on their books, so the customer has the rights to it back at any time.

If the customer wants their money back, the bank will have to borrow from the FED or the overnight market to pay it back, and then use future interest to pay that loan.

>>514967156 (OP)
New /jjg/ thread here:

Indians are running scams to steal jobs from Americans. This is a four part old school /pol/ campaign to expel them from US jobs. We need your help, and YOU get money from any settlement!

>>514976681

>>514976681

>>514976681

>>514976581
That's a long run. generational trend.
In the short run, meaning ~10 years, most people who move here and get a job take that job from another person who would have got it and buy a home and consumer goods driving those prices up as well. The only upside is whatever good or service they produce at their job becomes cheaper, mainly because immigrants are desperate to be here and accept low wages, so *some* of those savings get passed to the consumer sometimes, alongside the standard increase in supply driving down those prices.

>>514976364
Yes. Friedman didn't model banks at all. No Libertarian/Jew has even written honestly about economics. Read Randle Wray or even Richard Werner.
This books starts directly with your Island economics and refutes you completely.
https://www.amazon.com/Conversation-About-Economics-Richard-Werner-ebook/dp/B00T6Q88V2

>>514977137
You don't drive up consumer goods by spending money if you also produced the equivalent or a greater amount of those consumer goods before.

In a free market you are only paid when you produce the same or more of what you produce. Each illegal that spends $100 on booze produced at least $100 worth of agricultural products to balance out the impact.

Immigrants are also an input source in housing construction. A mexican that comes to build houses will build many more than he takes.

>In the short run, meaning ~10 years, most people who move here and get a job take that job from another person who would have got it

The market corrects this very very fast.

>>514976488
It hasn't worked at all. You lost.

>>514967156 (OP)
>One person working doesn't take away your ability to work.
most braindead statement ever, it takes that job and if the jobs are done by immigrants they are not done by citizens

>>514967156 (OP)
>One person working doesn't take away your ability to work.
Complete nonsense. If I apply for a job and it is taken by somebody else, that person literally took my employment opportunity and left me with worse options to pursue. Jobs are not infinite. Opportunities are not infinite. They are absolutely zero-sum.

>>514977545
>He says... on an smart-phone/laptop, disproving his point.

You lost.

>>514977564
> it takes that job and if the jobs are done by immigrants they are not done by citizens

Hey stupid, jobs aren't a fixed good. Jobs aren't bitcoin or Uranium.

>>514977641
his theory relies on growth, to create new jobs, but reality doesnt work like that

>>514976581
>As the population expands, jobs are created.
Population expansion follows from economic opportunity not the other way around. Look at the Rust Belt, jobs left, so the people left. Conversely look at black ghettos, people breed like rats, yet no jobs materialize. People have more babies when the economy is doing better, they don't make the economy better by having more babies.

>>514977689
>You wont have technology without brown slaves.
Funny as we had all this tech before the brown slaves.

>>514976894
No they don't. They take the deposit in exchange for a mutuum contract. Once you surrender the property to the banks then it the bank's property. What they give you is contract to receive back equal value in new credit. Banks are allowed to create Bank credit out of nothing as along they list one part as asset and the other part as liability thus summing to zero.

"The essence of the contract in the case of such loans is, not that the borrower should return to the lender the identical chattels lent (for such specific return would ordinarily render the loan valueless), but that upon demand or at a fixed date the lender should receive from the borrower an equivalent quantity of the chattels lent.” (Halsbury 1964: 112)."

For more details: https://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2011/10/what-british-law-says-about-fractional.html

>>514977724
>>Hey stupid, jobs aren't a fixed good.
They are, you absolute moron. Actual jobs, and not shitty "gig work" are limited in number and they can absolutely be deprived from others by having too many employable people looking for work. Importing immigrants is unconscionable as long as there is a single unemployed American citizen who is actively looking for work.

>>514977777
Well it's both, the rate of unemployment and the number of jobs isn't contingent on the population.

There can be a low population area with high unemployment and a populated area with low unemployment.

Unemployment happens when the wages workers request + expected cost of hiring is greater than the forecasted revenue they will create at their job.

The real way to create more jobs is to deregulate the labor market so it's very very cheap to hire somebody. Scrap minimum wage, get rid of dumb labor regulations that lets employees sue if they feel "harassed" (potential liability for employers), and make it very easy to fire someone (reduces risk of hiring a bad employee).

>>514977816
We had Iphones before free trade?

>>514977844
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2012/07/29/ron-paul-fractional-reserve-banking-and-the-money-multiplier-myth/

This debunks the money multiplier myth.

It's an accounting trick. It's not really increasing the money supply in any meaningful sense.

If I have money in a bank, it's not really there, it's been lent out to a borrower. He has the money, I just have a CLAIM on the equivilent amount of money, and the bank shows that on my bank account balance. The money isn't really in two different places, it's just the accounting method for showing it.

>>514977888
You're incredibly dumb, unless every single need is satisfied there will always be jobs.

>>514967156 (OP)
> Standard of Living
If you include the massive loss of quality of life that results from all the shitskins around then the standard of living becomes abysmal.

>>514967156 (OP)
Kill yourself, kike, you should commit suicide today and take your family with you.

>>514977992
Yes we had phones before slave labor. We had everything before cheap chinkslop and before importing infinite spics the ho have added nothing to america. You lost lolbert.

>>514978223
Doesn't happen if they're kept on farms.

>>514977992
We developed the all science required for that technology long before the Iphone and did so in a protectionist economy. The rate of new physics discoveries dropped dramatically after WW2 and when we entered the global free trade era. Just look how shit the average brutalist building looks now under free trade and compare to the that evil Protectionist era of the gilded age. There's no comparison between how shit everything is now compared to how nice things are for countries like China and Russia which protect their industries. Which subway would you rather ride? One in Russia or one in Jew York? Free Trade is a 100% failure at developing any first world economy. Not a single economy has EVER developed by specialization into a single industry rather than diversify to have as many national industries as possible. The development of an economy is exactly equal to how MANY industries it has and nothing else.

>>514967156 (OP)
But I thought brownoids made GDP grow?

>>514967156 (OP)
>jobs and opportunities aren't a fixed sum
Braindead moron.
They absolutely are. Resources aren't infinite and our technological progress has stalled to the point where no true new resource cultivation is possible, just moving around existing assets and the occasional new piece of knowledge/software.
>one person producing wealth
"Wealth" isn't "produced" you retard, it's created upon selling a commodity or surface on the market, and GUESS WHAT, THERE'S A LIMITED AMOUNT OF BUYERS, RETARD.
>1 man on an island vs 10 men
Now imagine all those 10 men were trying to live on their own on the island and competed with one another and only occasionally collaborated in attempts to one-up one another with trickery.

>>514978822
>Just look how shit the average brutalist building looks now under free trade and compare to the that evil Protectionist era of the gilded age

The reason the gilded age was great and fostered economic growth was because we had

1) Very small federal government

2) Almost no Federal and State economic regulations

3) Gold standard which restrained monetary expansion beyond natural increases in gold production

4) Very low taxes.

The tariffs were used to generate revenue for the few faculties the Federal Government was responsible for, namely military, court administration, border, and diplomacy.

The best economic policy was actually under Grover Cleveland, who maintained what was aforementioned AND dropped tariffs. McKinley brought them back in the 1990s.

>The rate of new physics discoveries dropped dramatically after WW2 and when we entered the global free trade era.

I don't see how you think free trade is responsible for the lack of Einsteins and Oppenheimer like geniuses. Scientific discovery happens in waves because there's no law of nature that ensures advancements will happen on a continuous timeline. Do you really think free trade would have stopped those discoveries?

>Which subway would you rather ride? One in Russia or one in Jew York?

That's because Russia and China doesn't put up with drug addict lunatics, not because they have a better economic system. Economically the USA is far richer.

>>514979074
>They absolutely are. Resources aren't infinite and our technological progress has stalled to the point where no true new resource cultivation is possible, just moving around existing assets and the occasional new piece of knowledge/software.

You're stupid and have no clue how modern supply lines and industry works.

>"Wealth" isn't "produced" you retard, it's created upon selling a commodity or surface on the market, and GUESS WHAT, THERE'S A LIMITED AMOUNT OF BUYERS, RETARD.

Holy uneducated batman. Wealth is absolutely PRODUCED stupid

>Now imagine all those 10 men were trying to live on their own on the island and competed with one another and only occasionally collaborated in attempts to one-up one another with trickery.

That's why we have institutions like a legal system and free markets to ensure the only way you get ahead is through voluntary exchange.

>>514967156 (OP)

Reminder: According to official figures, 30% of immigrants in the UK dont work.

>>514979331
I saw some statistic like "5/6 immigrants are dependents", it may be way worse than 30%

>>514979331
Then cut off their gibs and deport them if they commit any violent or serious crime.

I say violent or serious crime because making a joke on twitter or having a TV without a license shouldn't be grounds for deporation.

>>514979331
According to official figures that'd put their employment rate around the same as the natives'. Mind you in Nordic countries employment rate is in mid 70s.

>>514979509
Yeah lets just give Kier a quick ring and get some new policies going.

>>514979296
>Holy uneducated batman. Wealth is absolutely PRODUCED
Putting something in capital letters doesn't make it more true because it's more capital letters.

>You're stupid and have no clue how modern supply lines and industry works.
Please lmfao tell me more how Microsoft producing AI-slop shovelware "products" with no real manufacturing or value outside of a few tight-knit research labs and manufacturing centers in India is actually "muh modern supply line and industry."

>That's why we have institutions like a legal system and free markets to ensure the only way you get ahead is through voluntary exchange.

Sounds homosexual and unnatural. Breeds trickery. The only way to get ahead in voluntary exchange is deceit, and then the legal system protects your deceit. This breeds feminine and lecherous thinking and a gig economy (like we have in the west, wowee).