I've read claims that control trials use the term "placebo" but the vaccines are actually tested against an "already safe vaccine" and not saline?

>>16732557 (OP)
It would be unethical to let study subjects suffer from a preventable disease. A true placebo would cause harm while the test vaccine only has the potential to cause harm.

>>16732563
so no, they are not tested against placebo.

>>16732563
Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? Shouldn't they at least change the definition. Seems a bit deceiving.

>>16732569
Definitions of words are whatever the industry says they mean. It's not like they haven't changed definitions plenty of times before.

>>16732563
dumb, voluntarily taking chemicals for the express purpose of seeing if it damages you is already potentially damaging. clinical trial people are voluntarily doing it, also, and it is in fact noble to do so, as in e.g. the military.

>>16732563
It is also unethical to inject people with experimental mystery fluid. That's the point of clinical trials, to figure out if the medicine in question helps, harm's, or does nothing
Overbearing ethics concerns are one of the reasons medical science is still a joke. Paddling poorly tested chemical concoctions as cures without even being reasonably sure they work isn't unethical?

>>16732563
So how are they testing new drugs and medicine? Is that also not placebo but an already "established safe drug". That doesn't make any sense.

>>16732557 (OP)
>>16732563
>>16732602
they are safe and effective
thats why the manufacturers enjoy legal immunity from any liability for their products that would never ever harm anybody. no stop asking questions science denier

>>16732557 (OP)
no
/thread

>>16732557 (OP)
the placebo effect isn't real so the control group is the entire unvaccinated population

>>16732557 (OP)
that's ol wormy talking. like a wolf in a hen house.

>>16732563
you have zero clue how medical trials work

>>16732754
smart

/pol/shit threads are cancer and against >>>/global/rules/3 and >>>/sci/rules/1
OP is a faggot.
Fulfill your civic duty to help purge this board of anarchistic, sociopathic, intellectually regressive youtube/reddit/twitter immigrant subhumans like him who are under the delusion that all of 4chan (instead of just the designated shitposting playpens like /b/, /trash/, /bant/, etc.) is a toilet by reporting this thread en masse.
Here's a link so you don't have to scroll up to the top of the page.
https://sys.4chan.org/sci/imgboard.php?mode=report&no=16732557

>>16732819
What exact rule was broken here?
I'm just curious about how the trials are conducted ? Why are you so mad? Is that topic beyond discussion?

>>16732830
>What exact rule was broken here?
>>>>/sci/rules/1

>>16732844
Is clinical safety trials not science?

>>16732557 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/R3Rze3HC_m4

>>16732848
Vaccine fearbait is not, it is trolling, sorry chud

>>16732859
Is that how you talk to your patients?

>>16732855
Thanks.
See>>16732844
>>16732859
It wasn't that hard after all...

>>16732563
It would be unethical not to inject patients with a bunch of untested chemicals
>inject patients with a bunch of untested chemicals
Now THAT'S ethical.

>>16732844
fuck off basedience cultist
all vaccines are poison

>>16732557 (OP)
He's a nazi and therefore a bubling idiot

>>16732855

It's interesting, here they claim even the placebos sometimes contain adjuvants. Why do they do this? Does in muddy the trial? Adjuvants are there to trigger an immune response, why would you want to trigger an immune response in the placebo?

https://www.voicesforvaccines.org/jtf_topics/why-arent-vaccines-tested-against-placebos/

>>16733475
>Does in muddy the trial?
Doesn't it*

Dumb question here... If the spike protein in Sars-Cov2 is causing all these problems? Why would they make a vaccine with a spike protein that can potentially cause the same problems if not more....?

>>16733496
that's a conspiracy theory

>>16733496
If covid is literally just the flu and apparently harmless, then why is it bad there's spike protein? The vaccine just gives you some flu like symptoms for a day or so, and that's about it.

>>16733535
Is it just like the flu? I thought it can give you myocarditis and neurological problems.

>>16733548
Ah, yes then you would have to agree that vaccination is necessary, because vaccination is studied and controlled by humans, while the virus is not under our control. The mRNA vaccine has been studied for 20+ years (contrary to people who claim the vaccine was an experiment) and has undergone rigorous safety testing.

The adverse effects of the vaccine back in 2021 were just about influenza symptoms for a day or so, which is completely normal and expected, and transient myocarditis in less than 1% of males who took it. Yet, I don't see how getting spike protein from the vaccine can be any worse than getting spike protein from the virus, and as expected covid itself was linked to myocarditis. Most viral infections are a risk factor for myocarditis, actually.

>>16733552
>transient myocarditis
no such thing
>1% of males
1% of a billion is 10 million

>>16732863
>>16733313
shit tier b8 m8

>COVID-19 vaccine
>*Applicable to some
Those guys wanted me to take a vaccine that I clearly didn’t need. I could tell from the very beginning that I personally didn’t need the vaccine. They trapped me in my house and I couldn’t leave the state just because I didn’t want to take the vaccine.

https://youtu.be/_1gluMtaUmg

>>16733552
>under our control
immunology is very complex and there can be many unanticipated effects, even worse, what we know about it has been largely ignored with this topic
>studied for 20+ years
and has not been used in any medical application before, then was rolled out to billions pretty much immediately
>rigorous safety testing
lol
>transient myocarditis
damage to the heart is permanent. it can come back to kick your ass at any point later in life
>just 1%
even if thats true. giving the novel gene therapy to 1billion means that this rate gives heart damage to 10million people
>can be any worse
the spike protein in the virus is attached to the surface of the virus. the gene therapy releases free spike proteins into the body. its a much smaller article that can reach areas the virus could not and have vastly different effects.
then theres also the fact that you can still catch the virus after getting the gene therapy and that you might have conditioned your immune system to handle the infection in a worse way.

>>16733557
Less than 1%. The actual estimated rate is about 150 per 100k.

>no such thing
I do think myocarditis eventually goes away. Besides, it was found that men who experienced hospitalization from vaccine myocarditis had a significantly better long term prognosis.
>https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2822933
From everything I've seen there's literally no reason to suspect the vaccine permanently damages people. Of course there's probably the aberrant 1 in 10 million case like with everything in medicine. Unless you want to believe the vaccine was intentionally created to kill people and everybody's engaging in a massive worldwide coverup or something, in which case go ahead I don't care. I took 3 shots in 2021 and I'm completely fine 4 years later, so what's your point?

>>16733552
>Ah, yes
Are you usin chatgpt you fucking retard?

>>16733564
>the spike protein in the virus is attached to the surface of the virus. the gene therapy releases free spike proteins into the body.
Ah yes, there it is. You guys love to ask innocent looking, leading questions to push your theories. The mRNA vaccine is not gene therapy.

>damage to the heart is permanent. it can come back to kick your ass at any point later in life
Myocarditis doesn't automatically imply heart damage like you're trying to insinuate.

>immunology is very complex and there can be many unanticipated effects, even worse, what we know about it has been largely ignored with this topic
>you can't know nothin
Lmao alright. I'm sure you fags wouldn't be satisfied even if mRNA vaccines were studied for 50 years.

>>16733569
>Myocarditis doesn't automatically imply heart damage like you're trying to insinuate.
How far the goalpost has moved...hilarious

>>16733569
>not gene therapy
classical vaccines introduce a prepared antigen into the body, so that the immune system can react to it and build a immune response. mRNA tech introduces a gene (encoded into the mRNA) into the body that uses your own cell to produce the target antigen. it works completely different to classical vaccines and the definition was changed to include them. it is clearly a gene therapy, because it uses a genetic mechanism for its effects.
moreover, there has never been a effective vaccine for a SARS virus and not for lack of trying. there was never any reason to think switching to gene tech would change that.
>doesn't automatically imply heart damage
lol
>studied for 50 years
clinical trials usually take about 10 years. if thats done and there's actual reliable data, we could talk about that.

>>16732557 (OP)
You test against the current "gold standard" which may or may not be a placebo.

>>16732557 (OP)
You test them against current vaccines. If it isn't similar or better it's rejected.

>>16732557 (OP)
it's better to feel safe now and to be sorry later
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tIFxVyzD_Kg

>>16732563
Can't even answer the question, eh ?

>>16732557 (OP)
No, because they want to harm and kill.
>>16732563
You want to harm and kill.
>>16733475
Because they want to harm and kill.