Thread 16813862

What causes people to think sex isn’t binary? Isn’t it an absolute biological fact? There is no third gamete. You’re either on one or the other production path. Even if you have to squint to see it, or it doesn’t end up functional, outliers are still just outliers.

>>16813862 (OP)
You're just too retarded to get the actual point being made.
You're actually a good example. Most, if not almost all men have broad shoulders, muscular arms, little fat and small hips - you on the other hand are fat, have a feminine face, wide hips making you appear female from behind and your lack of muscle is not even necessary to mention. Your weakness is obvious; this is the reason for you to hide behind science you don't understand - it's your way to not appear as worthless as you are.
You use scientific words, pseudo-knowledge and flawed, unbased thinking to appear as if there's still non-bullshit remaining in your words while in reality, you could drop dead just now and even your mother and your cuck-father would be relieved

>>16813862 (OP)
A lot of people are infected by the post-modern notion that if there is an exception to the rule, then the rule isn't real. No - the exceptions PROVE the rule.

Its all so tiresome, the pro-trans side is endlessly trying to win an actually unwinnable argument. The effort can and should be focused on literally anything else. I am a tranny myself, and its like watching your own side loose battles in a swamp out of some sense misguided pride.

>>16813877
First post worst post.

>>16813878
exactly
nobody hates ladyboys for example, cause they don't try to push their mental illness down your throat
they know they are men in disguise and if you call them women they will be offended

It's mainly due to an ideological perspective. They believe that most things are social constructs and that those social constructs were chosen at random or to enforce power dynamics. In their eyes if the social construct was random then it can also be shaped into whatever they want it to be. By saying sex is a spectrum then a trans woman is just as much a woman as any woman, because 'woman' is a social construct that they can manipulate at will. And since society does indeed follow conventions of social constructs, therefore society will eventually fully accept trans women as 'real women'.

The gaping hole in this worldview however is that social constructs are very rarely chosen at random and are constrained by reality. E.g. a woman is a woman because of the features a woman has (like giving birth), and a woman has features such as this because of our evolutionary history. No matter how much it upsets anyone, we can't change this evolutionary history - it's a constraint which are social constructs form around. Even under the height of trans ideology we still needed to call real women 'biological women' or 'birthing persons' - because these people arise and exist in society due to the nature of our species, and we still need to refer to this category of people socially

They do have some valid points regarding social constructs and power, but the fact that they refuse to engage with the constraints of reality will always trip up this kind of ideology. Mother Nature always balances her books

So it's a case of where their ideology blinds them to constraint-based reality. You can see a similar thing happening with human race science as well. The only way to act like it doesn't exist is by pretending and hoping everyone plays along with it. Also because biology is such a complex web of relationships then you CAN get away with zooming out to a far greater extent than say something like pretending a bridge won't collapse when it was built improperly.

>>16813862 (OP)
>What causes people to think sex isn’t binary? Isn’t it an absolute biological fact? There is no third gamete.
It's a somewhat complicated argument to make. It's not good enough to compare humans to the biological fact of gametes.

It's actually a lot easier to have people acting in an intermediate and confused psychological space in order to disprove the binary.

>>16813893
>It's not good enough to compare humans to the biological fact of gametes.
And yet it’s still disingenuous to assume otherwise.

Personally. I think a huge chunk of the human race is irreparably retarded, they just hide it well. But that’s just my theory.

>>16813877
You didn't address the genetic part of the question

>>16813893
>It's a somewhat complicated argument to make. It's not good enough to compare humans to the biological fact of gametes.

Bro, its been a perfectly functional system for understanding reproduction for all of human history.

>>16813894
Except people don't experience reality through the properties of gametes, or any other scientific facts. Those become irrelevant when a man in a wig gives another man a boner.

>>16813896
I'm ready to be entertained. Please, tell me your understanding of "basic genetics". If you rely on AI, you're showing that you don't even have the knowledge to answer this simplest question.

>>16813901
Your feelings don’t erase the biological purity of where it all begins. Sorry. Spark starts at gametes and ends at producing more gametes. It’s why you’re here. The development of males and females are a mutually antagonistic affair, even.

>>16813901
>i don't experience reality through the parameters that define my entire experience of reality

>>16813901
They experience reality through the same evolutionary process which produced the archetype which carries those gametes: male/female

Trannies are losing their minds kek

>>>/lgbt/41333357

>>16813919
Jeeeesus

Why is it ALWAYS Americans who proudly showcase their most retarded opinions.
I'm speaking about both "gender is 100% biologically determined through le X and Y gonosomes but I don't actually know anything about biology" and "there does not exist any biological sex at all"

>>16813928
Americans have become so isolated and so bored amongst themselves and their political slap fighting they can no longer identify the rest of the world for what it truly is. This includes reality and how it works.

>>16813862 (OP)
Wasn't Dawkins saying the opposite for the last 10 years? Perennial fucking Teddy Ruxpin doll for whatever the current thing is; no brain and no balls.

>>16813878
> the exceptions PROVE the rule.
In that saying, “to prove” means “to test”, as in “proving grounds”, you dumb motherfucker.
It may be true that rare exceptions don’t change a generalisation but you’re obscuring the point by putting it in such a retarded way.

>>16813862 (OP)
>the world is black and white if you squint out all the grays
Full circle, one post, what an idiot.

>>16813878
>the exceptions PROVE the rule.
This is true but you don't understand what this statement actually means. Few people do. The rest are automatons regurgitating a logical absurdity at face value.

>>16813954
>In that saying, “to prove” means “to test”, as in “proving grounds”, you dumb motherfucker.
No, "to prove" in this context actually does mean "to affirm the truth of", not to try and falsify it.

Does double slit >>16812918 count as third sex? Or just a variant of female?

>>16813964
You proof your yeast is a small testing container with some water and snacks to confirm whether or not it is viable before you add it to your expensive batch of dough. It's a purely economic and thus emotional environment. Mathematics and logic do not apply.
Get over yourself.

>>16813988
Male =/= not-Female
Female =/= not-Male

>>16813904
Instead of seething like a fag and resorting to ad hominem try to validate your claims. OP isn't the one making the claim, he is indirectly responding to the regimented re-education of gender lead by the depraved homosexual community who assert that gender is a spectrum and can be changed with medical intervention. YOU are the one who must back up your claims. It shouldn't be hard given that you seem to be a biology expert and you seem to care a lot about this particular topic

>>16814072
What does gender have to do with this? Non-scientific, no reply necessary.

>>16814047
But if you have two vaginas, it's female yes?

>>16814072
Explain how XY -> man and XX -> woman in your terms please. I need to be entertained

>>16814113
Explain why I need to define my own terms for such a basic topic, retard.

>>16814116
Thought so, buddy

>>16814113
>>16814075
>*fingers in ears* lalalalalala I can't hear you I'm a woman! I'm xy but a woman!

>>16813919
I used to think /lgbt/ should be deleted, but renaming to /lgb/ would be funnier.

>>16814120
>>16814113
>>16814117
>>16814120
Define "woman".

>>16814120
Explain then. How do XY chromosomes make a man? If you're as dumb as could be expected, another, simpler question: what do genes do?

>>16814117
All you need to so it provide proof that you, an XY, can be a woman. It's very simple. Like I said, it shouldn't be hard for you since you're already an expert on this topic. Please, inform a dumbass like me

>>16814124
By suppressing female hormones and inciting male hormones, which, during development, cause same stem cells to form different organs.
It is also important to note that cells constantly need repairing, so it is expected that those hormones will be steadily supplied your whole life, that's why being a HRT junkie never works out.

>>16814125
>All you need to so it provide proof that you, an XY, can be a woman
I think you're missing a gene or two related to intelligence

>>16814126
>form different organs
So your argument is that the sexual organs make a man or woman? I wonder if there are counterexamples that you would know of if you weren't mistaking your ignorance for education

>>16814129
There's no other organs besides sexual ones?
Retarded nigger, estrogen and testosterone affects entire body, female and male organs are fundamentally different.

>>16814130
What would happen if, to take some of the countless examples
>a karyotype 46, XY with damaged Y-chromosome
>a karyotype 47, XXY with two "female" and one "male" gonosome
>a karyotype 46, XY with androgen receptor deletion

>>16814135
A genetic illness that should be eliminated via postnatal abortion before it has chance to spread.

>>16814137
Don't say that. Some think like that about very stupid people aswell and I don't want you to become aborted at the ripe age of 17

>>16814138
>Projection
Did you by any chance get a brain transplant? Was your donor a woman?
That would explain your low IQ.

>>16814124
The Y chromosome makes you a man by inhibiting or activating certain genes to be expressed. These genes do a variety of things, such as make you tall and strong and big boned for fighting other males and animals. They give you that thicker beard that you are constantly shaving and getting insecure about. They make your voice deep which is why you have to make a conscious effort every time you talk to sound like a girl. It changes your brain chemistry too and makes you overly aggressive and hostile towards those who don't share your opinions, making you waste time on internet forums arguing with strangers over ideology and abstract concepts instead of, if you were a woman, hanging out with your girl besties at the mall or something. It makes you attracted to women—but a lot of mtf transgenders are still attracted to women anyway so they flood lesbian dating apps to the dismay and horror of actual lesbians (TERFs!) who are constantly trying to maintain their own spaces (but they keep getting invaded by mtf individuals anyway). It also develops your sexual organs in unchangeable ways. i.e. if you were born with a penis you cannot have a vagina even if you cut it off and open a wound in your crotch then line it with part of your bowels. It changes your gametes too, making it so you produce sperm instead of eggs. It makes it impossible for you to get pregnant as well

>>16814127
>spelling mistake, therefore I'm a real woman

>>16814139
Just accept that you don't know shit and especially not even the basics of biology

>>16814142
I accept that
>you don't know shit and especially not even the basics of biology

>>16814141
>fanfiction about biology
I get it, chuddy. You're from the US of A, huh?

>>16814141
>such as make you tall and strong and big boned
um no they don't do that, women and men have same height, same muscles, same bones, all organs except vagina and penis are equivalent

>>16814145
The funniest thing about you is that I'm a regular man while you probably masturbate to the fantasy of being a woman, then hate yourself and cope with it by being an uneducated retard

>>16814149
You post like someone who never had sex and can't get his dick up.

>>16814151
I know for a fact that someone like you could never have a woman that's not either undesirable, mentally retarded or blind

>>16814153
All women are mentally retarded, but don't worry, I won't judge your preference of having sex with men.

>>16813862 (OP)
Sex is determined by bloodtype, not by gametes retard.

OP is 100% right and trannies have just fucking destroyed western education on all levels. They can’t be forgiven for this.

That we’re even having this discussion speaks volumes on how we as a species overcomplicate the most basic shit.

>>16813862 (OP)
By sex do you mean gender?
Gender is socially constructed from sex
Sex is, barring exceptions, binary and most intersex people are infertile

>>16814196
>By sex do you mean gender?
Oh. We got another retard!

>>16814196
Even those that aren't don't have a third type of gamete.

>>16814196
Some languages don’t have a second word for sex, or gender, and to the average bloke on the side of the road sex and gender mean the same damn thing.

>>16814199
Agreed
>>16814201
Only by construction, you can't exactly read the gametes someone produces from how you perceive them

>>16814202
We all know dickgirls exist anon

>>16814205
That's my point yeah

>>16814046
Those are two different verbs, anon.

>>16813862 (OP)
>There is no third gamete
but there are at least 3 states
small gametes, large gametes, no gametes
therefore not binary by definition.
but it's also a stupid argument because there's a bunch of different definitions of sex, gamete size is only one of them. Sex can be defined by sex organs, sex can be defined hormonally, sex can be defined genetically, etc.
I would say that sex is not actually defined as gamete size or genes specifically, that's just a measure of sex not a definition. The most full reaching and internally consistent biological definition of sex is that sex is the collection of traits that distinguish males from females. By this standard, trans people do change some aspects of their sex, while other aspects don't change.

>>16814376
I have a gold coin and a silver coin in my hand but really that means I have three coins in my hand because if I shove the two coins up my ass I have no coins in my hand and no coins is a third coin.

>>16814394
binary is when you have two states, usually one and zero. There is no third option, ever.
if your system has the potential to have anything other than one of those two states, it's not binary.

>>16814396
I'm not the one arguing that a blank piece of paper is a "third state" in binary lol

>>16814396
I had to explain this to a retarded tranny the other day. I felt like killing myself afterward. Like I lost brain matter just interacting with it.

>>16814417
binary would be if you had one coin or zero coins. That's binary, 1 or 0
if you have one coin, a different coin, or zero coins it's trinary. If you have one coin or a different coin and no option for zero coins it's binary.
In fact, my definition of sex as the collection of traits that distinguish male from female is a lot closer to binary than the gamete definition, because gametes are absolutely undeniably trinary. Whereas my definition permits people in the "no gametes" category to still be either male or female.

>>16813862 (OP)
Actual psychologist here, gender dysphoria has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is only inorganically shilled because its pushed together on the gay flag. In reality gender dysphoria is a disease of delusion like body dysphoria in which reality is distorted. In my illegal opinion the cure for gender dysphoria is simply giving them HRT of their biological gender for a period of time until they no longer need that boost. However bécause its grouped together with sexual orientation this would be considered hecking gay conversion therapy.

>>16814429
Art major? Any insights about the Planck length to share?

>>16814376
>The most full reaching and internally consistent biological definition of sex is that sex is the collection of traits that distinguish males from females.
>By this standard, trans people do change some aspects of their sex, while other aspects don't change.
That's the "infinite sexes" """standard""" and you're obviously a tranny.

>>16814450
>That's the "infinite sexes" """standard"""
if your position is that anything other than true binary is infinite sexes, then you're the one following the infinite sexes standard
according to my position the "collection of dimorphic traits" standard, there's still two sexes but with wiggle room in between for people who don't fit neatly in one of the two categories. Like intersex people with indeterminate genitals and general sexually dimorphic features that are opposed to their gametes, for instance. The "collection of dimorphic traits" definition functions a whole lot better for these edge cases, and also can easily define male and female while not opening oneself up to the hypocrisy that gamete purists have in cases of complete androgen insensitivity syndrome or eunuchs.

>>16814435
>In my illegal opinion the cure for gender dysphoria is simply giving them HRT of their biological gender for a period of time until they no longer need that boost
we tried this and it doesn't work

>>16814464
All of this is semantics sex is defined simply by your DNA, people who fall outside of these categories are simply dysgenic and are outliers that do not pertain to the rule

>>16814468
Can you show me the data if you can so i can read it, id love to fund my own study but as i said it will never go through the APA ethics committee

>>16814464
>i believe in a true binary, trust me, bro
>all i'm saying is that trans people do change some aspects of their sex
I see three possible ways (that dreaded ternary thing again) to interpret this position:
1. When you change something it stays the same
2. When a tranny changes "aspects of it sex" the sex flips
3. The tranny's sex is no longer on the binary you falsely claim to uphold

>>16814474
people tried this last century, I don't have the data on hand but I'm sure you could find information about it. Alternatively you could provide your own data that it would work
but it's pretty obvious that it doesn't work from the case studies of steroid users who troon out despite spending years on peak male hormone levels

>>16814479
Last century lmfao ill look it up but any study before 2012 has to be taken with a grain of salt, that said i would show you my own data but as I said because of political reasons which have entrenched themselves into my profession in an absolute insane degree, noone would fund such a study even if it could help transgender people. Its much more immoral to mutialite someones body permanently especially children and ontop of that giving them HRT anyways. Fact of the matter is its more akin to enabling then curing, not that anyone cares about curing gender dysphoria, no no that would be "evil"

>>16814471
definitions are semantics
the fact that your definition has problems with edge cases and my definition doesn't, despite being just as functional for 99% of the population means my definition is preferable
>>16814478
you're the one asking for a true binary, but your position is invariably infinite sexes. I'm giving a bimodal system that is binary 99% of the time.
Trannies change some aspects of their sex characteristics, and don't change others. Some trannies change enough to be intermediate and neither sex (actually consistent with your gamete model), some change enough to be in the collection of the opposite sex to which they were born into, and many don't change anything other than clothes, names, pronouns, etc., and are just the same as their birth sex because gender isn't real.

>>16814494
The edge cases would have different dna then the not edge cases ergo your social semantics are completely unneccesairy, your definition point is literally just meta semantics you retard

>>16814493
furthermore there's no evidence that trannies often have reduced natural hormone levels. Most trannies are hormonally normal for their birth sex, so treating the condition with supplemented hormones of their birth sex isn't particularly rational

>>16814464
>>16814494
>i believe in a true binary, trust me, bro
>all i'm saying is that trans people do change some aspects of their sex
There are three possible ways (that dreaded ternary thing again) to interpret this position:

1. When you change something it stays the same
2. When a tranny changes "aspects of its sex" the sex flips
3. The tranny's sex is no longer on the binary you falsely claim to uphold

Which one is it? There is no 4th option except admitting that you're incoherent.

>>16814501
Not reduced that doesnt even make neurochemical sense, its about one neurochemical dominating the other (testesteron vs estrogen, dopamine vs seretonine) which then runs the modus operandi of thought based on that dominant neurochemical

>>16814479
> HRT doesnt work and its not a neurochemical problem
> As part of treatment we must give transgenders HRT of their opposing gender because???
Do you retards not understand directionality?

>>16814499
>The edge cases would have different dna then the not edge cases
not always, there are plenty of things that can happen prenatally due to environmental conditions which aren't based on genes
>>16814503
you already posted this and I already gave an answer
the fact that you can't give a sufficient criticism to my model is a good point in my favor. My model is inclusive of even the edge cases, but does not give a strict category for every tranny situation, as there are many different tranny situations. What a good model!
>>16814509
your solution was supplementation of the naturally dominant hormone, but I don't see where the rationale to do this comes from given that trannies are not usually deficient in their natural hormones, or have too much of the opposite sex's naturally dominant hormone.
>>16814512
it's not a neurochemical problem, it's a problem of brain/body alignment. Treating trannies with opposite-birth sex hormones works when it changes their body enough to fix the brain/body misalignment. It's not the hormone's effects on the brain which makes the difference, the body is changed to suit the brain rather than the other way around. And so far, it seems as though changing the brain to suit the body in these cases has never worked nearly as well.

>>16813862 (OP)
Heres a study that shows brain regions become more dominant with their gender neurochemicals éven before HRT which proofs were dealing with a dominant neurochemical issue going wrong which can be treated theoretically with HRT in an identical way its already done the other way around (directionality)
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnins.2025.1477725/full

>>16814528
>i believe in a true binary, trust me, bro
>all i'm saying is that trans people do change some aspects of their sex
There are three possible ways (that dreaded ternary thing again) to interpret this position:

1. When you change something it stays the same
2. When a tranny changes "aspects of its sex" the sex flips
3. The tranny's sex is no longer on the binary you falsely claim to uphold

Which one is it?

>I already gave an answer
You're gonna have to dumb it down for me to one of the numbers 1-3. I don't understand Talmudic "middle" options that exist somewhere inbetween the actual logical possibilities that have been determined.

>>16814528
> It has never worked nearly as well
Then proof it? Show me the data, i keep hearing this from liberals yet they never show me because such a study doesnt exist

>>16814528
Since your kind is always located in the US, I hope you know what's coming. Everything you've been screeching about in your hysterical paranoid fantasies pre-election is going to pale in comparison. Everything you're posting online is being kept track of and you will be held accountable for it. :^)

Stop
Doing
This

:^)

Just stop it

>>16814583
This isn't a flag board; he just wants to self-identify as a happy merchant. What's wrong with that?

(^:

>>16814100
Your opinion is unneeded and unwanted.

>>16814046
Exceptions proving rules and bakers proofing yeast is the same form of the same verb, Crackers. Try using leavening next lifetime.

>>16814286
Nope.

>>16814376
OP respectfully requests that we all ignore these "outliers" entirely because if we don't his dichotomy theory of sex doesn't work.
We have played along until now when you come along and burst everyone's bubble.
Please fuck off.

>>16814537
this is the same kind of nonsense that leads trannies to think you can do brain scans of whether someone is male or female
but no, we don't even know what causes depression, much less the feeling of being another gender

>>16815403
As is yours, yet somehow they're both here on display.

>>16815459
>OP respectfully requests that we all ignore these "outliers" entirely
Um, no? He’s saying outliers are just that. Outliers.

>>16815545
Exactly, anything outside of OPs dichotomy is an outlier.

>>16815638
They’re not being ignored.

>>16815650
According to OP, they are to be ignored.

>>16815658
That’s quite the assumption.

>>16815660
OP finds it easier when he's dichotomies contain exactly two classes. Helps the blacks and whites stand out from all that gray.

>>16814555
You can inject hormones of opposite sex, but your body produces and reacts better to your own.
This indeed causes trannies to become a third option - dysgenic sickly freaks that are less emotionally stable than women, because women's bodies can manage estrogen better, same other way around, women on test get completely fucked up too, but we don't call them trannies, we call them athletes and MtF trannies still mog them, because male body with estrogen is still a male body, same for a woman.
Even if you bath your baby boy in estrogen in womb, even if you inject him with estrogen since first minute post birth, even if you tell him that he's a woman, he will still grow up to be a male, very fucked up one, subhuman. There are men, women, and subhumans.
>>16815666
OP is always gay, and so are you, things are only gray or black, demiurge didn't make a single good thing, it makes sense, because he's the OP of the entire universe, and very fucking gay.

>>16815672
You talk all stupid. The other guy was better.

>>16814120
There are people who have XY chromosomes but are born with a vagina and generally have no clue they're XY without genetic testing. Before genetic testing they lived and died without knowing it. Are they men?

>>16813884
Many prefer terms like sao praphet song, literally second kind of woman.

>>16815687
No, they're subhumans that I hope are infertile because that shit doesn't belong in our gene pool.

>>16815687
>they lived and died as women
>happy, loving, beautiful women
As long as they never voted and didn't own property, idc.

If you are born with a penis, you are a male
If you are born with a vagina, you are a female
If you are born with both, you are a genetic mutation and an outlier and do not represent what is considered normal. Much the same as if you are born with 3 arms or missing a leg.

If you are a male, you are a man.
If you are a female, you are a woman.
If you think otherwise, you are suffering from a mental illness. You do not validate a schizophrenic's delusions, and you do not validate a tranny's delusions.
If you can somehow claim that you were "born this way" then you were born defective, a failed genetic mutation that will not be beneficial to your survival or the evolution of the species. Abnormal.

Simple as

>>16815707
But you agree they're not men. (But yes, they're generally infertile.)
>>16815711
>>>/pol/ is over that way.
>>16815722
>If you can somehow claim that you were "born this way" then you were born defective, a failed genetic mutation that will not be beneficial to your survival or the evolution of the species. Abnormal.
Okay, and what does that have with your right to fundamental human dignity, or to receive such treatment as is necessary for you to be less miserable?

>>16813884
They’ll push something down your throat that’s for sure

>>16815745
>Okay, and what does that have with your right to fundamental human dignity, or to receive such treatment as is necessary for you to be less miserable?
"Fundamental right to human dignity" has nothing to do with the biology of the issue, other than that it perhaps shouldn't exist for those that cannot contribute to the betterment and survival of the species. Most trannies fortunately don't reproduce, but the fact they are able to is only a bad thing. If they were required to submit to mandatory sterilization and be forced to live in separated communities away from normal society, I would perhaps be more ok with their existence.

This has nothing to do with the science, but in my perfect world, all people with severe mental defects would be put out to pasture (this includes trannies), as would those with severe physical defects that cause them to require constant care. I would also apply the same line of thinking to a wide variety of low-value humans such as drug addicts, violent criminals, homeless people etc. All of this in service to the betterment of mankind. But that is all straying a bit off topic.

>>16815759
>other than that it perhaps shouldn't exist for those that cannot contribute to the betterment and survival of the species.
So disabled people shouldn't have human rights?
>This has nothing to do with the science, but in my perfect world, all people with severe mental defects would be put out to pasture (this includes trannies), as would those with severe physical defects that cause them to require constant care.
Why? Would you want that to be done to you if you were in that position?

>>16815722
If validating a schizo's delusions caused no harm, I wouldn't mind validating his delusions.

>>16815760
>So disabled people shouldn't have human rights?
Only the cripplingly disabled (ones that require constant care) and people with severe mental defects (trannies, schizos, extreme autism etc)
>Why? Would you want that to be done to you if you were in that position?
I already articulated why. And yes, if I became severely disabled in this way, I would support the ending of my life so as to not be a worthless drain on humanity. I don't expect a lot of people to align with my perspective. I put a lot of emphasis on the betterment and survival of humanity as a whole, disregarding the individual

>>16815765
But what value is the species if it means the suffering of individuals, since it's them who are actually capable of happiness or suffering, not an abstracted species? And isn't the point of improved technology that we can help people that we couldn't help before?

>>16815765
>>16815766
And as for trannies: if they can transition and be productive members of society why shouldn't they?

>>16815762
Even if it caused no harm, I would not prefer to validate their delusions because I would prefer that people exist in reality. For trannies, validating their delusions does in fact cause harm, not only to themselves through chemical and surgical mutilation, but also to those around them (such as when a sane person challenges their delusion, or when they attempt to push transgenderism on younger/more impressionable people)

>>16815771
But they're under no illusions about what body parts they have, they just have a very strong and inalterable preference for having different ones.

>>16815766
Because not all individuals will suffer, only those that provide no benefit to the species. Those who contribute to the species reap the rewards. Those who don't, don't.

>>16815770
Because transitioning should never be a step in the equation. It is an indication that the delusion has already gone too far. Chemical mutilation, surgical mutilation etc, in the name of entertaining a delusion, is a waste of time and resources and should never occur in the first place. Elective cosmetic surgery exists in a similar vein (breast implants, lip fillers, unnecessary facelifts etc) albeit not as extreme

>>16815774
And that is a mental defect of no value to humanity

>>16815774
>inalterable
what are you basing that on?

>>16815775
>Because not all individuals will suffer, only those that provide no benefit to the species. Those who contribute to the species reap the rewards. Those who don't, don't.
But if we have the means to provide a good life for everyone why shouldn't we? We're not living in hunter-gatherer conditions anymore, we live in times of incredible abundance thanks to technology. Providing for disabled people helps them and doesn't hurt others, so why shouldn't it be done?
>Because transitioning should never be a step in the equation.
If they have a medical condition that causes them to be miserable unless they transition but they can be productive members of society if they do then why shouldn't they? The cost of hormones and a couple of surgeries is a lot less than the economic value a competent programmer can provide.

>>16815778
The fact that conversion therapy has been tried repeatedly and doesn't work.

>>16815780
Are there any other permanently uncurable mental disorders?

>>16815783
Probably, yes. I'm not an expert. (Honestly, it's more of an intersex condition than anything- studies have shown that trans people's brains are more like those of the opposite gender in some ways.)

>>16815784
I know it's an old hat observation but it's wild how tranny discourse has the progressive side agreeing that men and women have fundamentally different brains

>>16815786
I'm not really a progressive, though I tend to dislike them less than I dislike reactionaries. But like yes, male and female brains are different, that's not really up for dispute, it's a matter of scientific fact; machine learning models were able to tell men's brains from women's brains in MRI scans at something like 96% accuracy IIRC.

>>16815783
I can’t tell if you’re genuinely asking or if you think that’s a gotcha, but the answer is yes. Bipolar, schizophrenia, personality and developmental disorders, there are loads.

>>16815765
so your just a retarded eugenisist, nobody who has had to take care of someone believes in that shit little boy

>>16813862 (OP)
For the same reason people don't think heterosexuality is a biological fact.
No, you can not produce children by sticking penis in poop hole. No you cannot produce children by scissoring.

>>16815872
It's true that homosexuality doesn't result in children. It's also true that some people are nonetheless homosexually inclined by nature.

>>16815874
The very term "homosexual" is insane.
You can't have "sex" in a biological sense, with the same sex. It's an oxymoron.

>>16815875
They still feel the same type of urges towards the same sex that other people do towards the opposite, even if they can't be pursued in quite the same ways, and cannot be caused to stop feeling them.

>>16815878
So if a man "feels" like a woman, does that make a man a woman?

>>16815892
Not inherently, but the urge to be one won't just go away, and there are steps they can take to become more meaningfully similar to a woman. (Can you name a single discrete, measurable physical trait that is true of all cis women and no trans women.)

>>16814435
>>16814471
>>16814474
>>16814493
>>16814499

Either the dumbest psychologist in existence or a sad loser posing as one. Either way, you're a pathetic excuse of a human. Your unintelligent, lexically and verbally incompetent way of expressing yourself gives it.

>>16815638
>>16815658
>Exactly, anything outside of OPs dichotomy is an outlier.
>According to OP, they are to be ignored.
Genetic deformities etc. don't introduce any new sexes - it's just a failure to physically develop in accordance with the dichotomy human biology specifies. And having a mental illness that makes you want to be the opposite sex definitely doesn't change the fact that you did develop according to that dichotomy.

>>16815745
>right to receive such treatment as is necessary for you to be less miserable
You're a psychopath. No one has this right and no group of people could even pretend to give themselves that right without judging one person's misery to be more important or severe than another's.

>>16815896
Lack of a Y chromosome

>>16815745
>Okay, and what does that have with your right to fundamental human dignity, or to receive such treatment as is necessary for you to be less miserable?
Your insane tranny ideology tries to undermine my right to make a natural distinction between women and mentally ill men. As we've all already observed, pumping mentally ill men full of female hormone mimickers does not, in fact, improve their condition, when everyone else keeps treating them like mentally ill men. Your actual "treatment" involves forcing a culture of psychotic delusions that punishes anyone who calls the bluff.

OP isn’t wrong and you’re all fucking retarded it blows my fucking mind just how fucking retarded you all are.

>>16815672
>everyone is a faggot to me, even those I agree with, and especially those I agree with
Yeah you’re a real faggot too buddy

>>16815928
>Genetic deformities etc. don't introduce any new sexes
You are female. The doctors said so. Put on the dress.

>>16815981
Ah, you're the victim in this show. Got it.

In a thousand years when humanity is extinct and aliens excavate our remains, they will declare your skeleton male, not female. Sorry trannies.

>>16815896
Can you name a single discrete measurable trait that is true of all trans people and no cis people?

>>16815896
was born with a vagene?
was born with ovaries?
can become pregnant and give birth, and is therefore worth investing time, money and attention?

>>16816072
>You're the victim in this show
Well, no, because around here your ideology is roundly condemned and rejected and you'd have the shit beaten out of you if you mention it. This is the only correct argument for dealing with your particular combination of narcissism, delusion and intellectual disability.

>>16816066
>incoherent psychotic screeching about who knows what
As expected from the infinite gender crowd.

>>16816187
Quite the victim. Thank goodness your walls of self-restraint can kick in. Wouldn't want people to think you were an animal or something, lashing out violently in anger and hatred. Nope, you are the victim in this societal tragedy.
Anyone buying those basedbeans, pal?

>>16815981
>Okay, and what does that have with your right to fundamental human dignity, or to receive such treatment as is necessary for you to be less miserable?
Your insane tranny ideology tries to undermine my right to make a natural distinction between women and mentally ill men. As we've all already observed, pumping mentally ill men full of female hormone mimickers does not, in fact, improve their condition, when everyone else keeps treating them like mentally ill men. Your actual "treatment" involves forcing a culture of psychotic delusions that punishes anyone who calls the bluff.

>>16816188
Lots of voices in there with you. What sort of tea do you serve at these "parties" anyway, Maverick?

>>16816195
>it's another episode of deformed americoons thinking their third world hellhole encompasses the world
lol

>>16815638
>>16815658
>Exactly, anything outside of OPs dichotomy is an outlier.
>According to OP, they are to be ignored.
Genetic deformities etc. don't introduce any new sexes - it's just a failure to physically develop in accordance with the dichotomy human biology specifies. And having a mental illness that makes you want to be the opposite sex definitely doesn't change the fact that you did develop according to that dichotomy.

>>16816202
>i am so glad i escaped that culture of victimhood
>i can haz survivor medal now?
Kek.

>>16816207
>incoherent psychotic screeching about who knows what
As expected from the infinite gender crowd.

>>16816204
>genetic deformities etc.
Define your terms or stfu
>don't introduce any new sexes -
Nor do they spoil the cheese. The science is clear on that.

>>16816215
>incoherent psychotic screeching about who knows what
As expected from the infinite gender crowd.

>>16816213
>damn, im looping

>>16815638
>>16815658
>Exactly, anything outside of OPs dichotomy is an outlier.
>According to OP, they are to be ignored.
Genetic deformities etc. don't introduce any new sexes - it's just a failure to physically develop in accordance with the dichotomy human biology specifies. And having a mental illness that makes you want to be the opposite sex definitely doesn't change the fact that you did develop according to that dichotomy.

This is the final word on this issue. No amount of Talmudic token-stringing overrides this threadly reminder of base reality.

>>16816216
>goto 10

Bots broke, Boss! Just saying the same old shit on loop.

>>16816218
>Genetic deformities etc. don't introduce any new sexes - it's just a failure to physically develop in accordance with the dichotomy human biology specifies
/thread. it's just another episode of midwit confusing meta levels

"this edge case proves there's no actual differences" is so fucking retarded
>two animals are in the same species when they can successfully reproduce? so if I chop the dick off my cat he's no longer a cat?

>>16816196
>muh culture
Not in a cult. Nope.

>>16816232
What "edge cases", Anon?

>>16815745
>Okay, and what does that have with your right to fundamental human dignity, or to receive such treatment as is necessary for you to be less miserable?
Your insane tranny ideology tries to undermine my right to make a natural distinction between women and mentally ill men. As we've all already observed, pumping mentally ill men full of female hormone mimickers does not, in fact, improve their condition, when everyone else keeps treating them like mentally ill men. Your actual "treatment" involves forcing a culture of psychotic delusions that punishes anyone who calls the bluff.

>>16816259
See for example >>16814135
You've really never seen this type of argument brought up?

>>16816266
Those don't exist. This is a dichotomy thread. OP said so.

>>16816270
Explain, using a proper logical argument, how any of those examples undermine the notion that there are exactly two sexes, biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes.

>>16816270
Yep there it is.

>>16816275
They don't. This is a dichotomy thread.
What do you not understand?
Two boxes: Male and Female. You get put in one at birth and there you stay.
What else is there?

Are we really arguing about this? People a hundred years ago would be so weirded out by how we in the future overcomplicate the most basic of shit.

>>16816292
>They don't.
Ok. I'm glad we both agree that there are exactly two sexes , biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes and that this is in no way undermined by genetic deformities.

>>16816266
Coin has two sides, heads and tails. If it lands on its edge sometimes, that doesn't make the edge a third side.

>>16816296
Male and Female, Bitch. Assigned at birth by doctors. DNA sequences have nothing to do with it and are seldom if ever consulted. 8,000,000,000 people on the planet and this nigger thinks they're being sequenced. Pity the fool, for he does not know and sees shadows against the walls in the dark.

>>16816304
>people are coins
You are an idiot.

>>16816292
>They don't.
Ok. I'm glad we both agree that there are exactly two sexes , biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes and that this is in no way undermined by genetic deformities.

>>16816311
Whom are you quoting there? I don't see that stated or implied anywhere in his post. Are you having one of your little "dysphoric" episodes?

>>16816314
Male and Female, moron. Assigned at birth, by doctors. Unchanging. Unchangeable. Always has been.
And if you honestly think that reality is any different. Then you are delusional.
Simple as.
I await your copypasta repose.

>>16816304
>a coin has 3 edges therefore a valid coin flip has 3 possible outcomes

>>16816316
You were talking about literal coins!?!
That's funny.

>>16816292
>>Explain, using a proper logical argument, how any of those examples undermine the notion that there are exactly two sexes, biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes.
>They don't.

>>16816309
>Male and Female, Bitch.

>>16816319
>Male and Female, moron
> Unchanging. Unchangeable. Always has been.

Ok. I'm glad we both agree that there are exactly two sexes , biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes and that this is in no way undermined by genetic deformities.

>>16816325
>You were talking about literal coins!?!
I was? Quote the post where I did that. You're definitely having an "episode". Ask /med/ if you can up your own dosage of Clozapine.

>>16816326
Male and Female. Look in your pants. Decision made. Done. Over.

>>16816292
>>Explain, using a proper logical argument, how any of those examples undermine the notion that there are exactly two sexes, biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes.
>They don't.

>>16816309
>Male and Female, Bitch.

>>16816319
>Male and Female, moron
> Unchanging. Unchangeable. Always has been.

>Male and Female.

Ok. I'm glad we both agree that there are exactly two sexes , biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes and that this is in no way undermined by genetic deformities.

>>16816330
Are you talking about coins of people?
Please decide.

>>16816336
>Are you talking about coins of people?
Quote the post where I was talking about "coins of people", or just link to whatever post you're inquiring me about. You're definitely having an "episode". Ask /med/ if you can up your own dosage of Clozapine.

>>16816335
I bet if you check you birth certificate it says, "Male" and not "XX".
But you are free to believe whatever you want.
Copypasta away.

>>16816311
>I'm stupid
Yes, I can tell.

>>16816339
In post >>16816304 do coins refer to literal coins or are they an analogy for non-coins?

>>16816292
>>Explain, using a proper logical argument, how any of those examples undermine the notion that there are exactly two sexes, biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes.
>They don't.

>>16816309
>Male and Female, Bitch.

>>16816319
>Male and Female, moron
> Unchanging. Unchangeable. Always has been.

Ok. I'm glad we both agree that there are exactly two sexes , biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes and that this is in no way undermined by genetic deformities.

>>16816341
>check you birth certificate it
This is not a thread about birth certificated. It's about your full concession that there are exactly two sexes , biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes and that this is in no way undermined by genetic deformities.

>>16816344
>do coins refer to literal coins or are they an analogy for non-coins?
I don't know, but in either case that post isn't claiming that "coins are people", as I see you've now correctly determined after taking your Clozapine.

>>16816345
You are hallucinating.
The boxes have always been labeled as Male and Female.

>>16816348
>idk
Bingo.

>>16816351
Bingo that you're mentally ill and were quoting voices in your head? Ok.

>>16816349
>The boxes have always been labeled as Male and Female.
Are the boxes in the room with us right now? Either way, I accept all of your concessions:

>>16816292
>>Explain, using a proper logical argument, how any of those examples undermine the notion that there are exactly two sexes, biologically characterized by having XY vs. XX chromosomes.
>They don't.

>>16816309
>Male and Female, Bitch.

>>16816319
>Male and Female, moron
> Unchanging. Unchangeable. Always has been.

>>16816352
That your coin post brought nothing to the table and you wasted your breath in typing it with those cute little sausage fingers of yours.
We all finally agree. Unanimously.

Imagine going 200+ posts in about something even cavemen understood

>>16816354
>i am xx, i am, i am!

>>16816358
Look down your pants. Look down their pants.
Any questions?
Good. Move on with your fucking lives already.

>>16816357
>your coin post brought nothing to the table
What? "My" coin?

>We all finally agree. Unanimously.
>We all
Seriously, now. You are delusional.

>>16816359
>i am xx
Yep. That means YWNBAW and YWNBAF and YWNB anything other than male even if you chop off your dick or do anything else to your body. You've conceded this 5+ times ITT. Wanna do that some more?

>>16816366
Oh. Sorry for misquoting you.
>i am xy*

>>16816366
Why do you continue to have so much doubt about your identity? Look in your fucking pants and shut the fuck up. The decision was literally made for you when you were born.
Moron.

>>16816309
You're breaking character a little with "assigned at birth" anon

>>16816371
>Look in your fucking pants
Ok. I did. What I saw is suggests very strongly that I am male. I guess I could go and have this tested more thoroughly, to rule out having some super-obscure genetic deformity that makes the question of my sex meaningless, but this is extremely unlikely so I won't bother.

>>16816357
That was my post, retard anon, not his. Are you the same art major who thinks binary has more than two options because you can print 0 or 1 but you can also print nothing?

>>16816381
Uhm, schweety? You misunderstand the rules of the coin-tossing game you've observed. You are modeling it incorrectly and lacking nuance. The coin can land on its side, so it's not Heads or Tails; the real game is actually Heads-Or-Tails-Or-What-If-It-Lands-On-Its-Side. Show the children, especially children of middle sexes.

Amount of trans people is no greater than the margin of error of total population, and anyone trying to convince you that this topic is important to the average person like you is a grifter trying to smash-and-grab the government coffers

Wouldn't you agree?

>>16816411
>anyone trying to convince you that this topic is important to the average person like you is a grifter trying to smash-and-grab the government coffers
100%. For all the general uselessness of voting, at least Americoons have managed to vote in someone willing to roll back some of the """pro-LGBT-initiative""" swindling.

>>16816419
>at least Americoons have managed to vote in someone willing to roll back some of the """pro-LGBT-initiative""" swindling
lol. reps poured millions into tranny ads to manipulate the poors. ironically, they care the most

>>16816440
Are the "reps" in the room with us right now? Either way, I agree with that poster. For all the general uselessness of voting, at least Americoons have managed to vote in someone willing to roll back some of the """pro-LGBT-initiative""" swindling.

>>16816411
The genocide is afoot.

>>16816446
MAGA = mend American gametes again.

>>16816446
i don't really believe in "non-binary," but i don't care if someone actually does either. live and let live yk?

>>16816455
Goes both ways, if somebody wants to refer to a non-binary person as their obvious biological sex what's the harm in letting them?

Trannies set back western education so far behind it’s horrifying

>>16816460
>if somebody wants to refer to a non-binary person as their obvious biological sex
Were you ever in a situation that you had to do that?

>>16816465
NTA but if somebody wants to refer to a non-binary person as their obvious biological sex what's the harm in letting them? Please explain.

>>16816461
>Trannies set back western education so far behind it’s horrifying
it's hilarious if you actually believe that. imagine getting so upset over literally nothing

>>16816465
What do you mean "had to"? I've certainly been in a situation where I've felt
>well this person is obviously a woman, I will say "them" to be polite but I am participating in a lie and don't like it

>>16816411
This is what I don’t get. They try to push that the norm isn’t the norm. So fucking hard. Why? Why do they do it?

>>16816471
Half of the scientific community can’t tell you what a women is, and you think this is le funny? Trannies are an intellectual devil. They don’t make you smarter they make you dumber.

You need to be thrown into a re education camp yourself.

>>16816468
>NTA but if somebody wants to refer to a non-binary person as their obvious biological sex what's the harm in letting them
Practically speaking, people do that all the time. You get gendered the way you look - so either man or woman in this context (although I have heard people actually use singular 'they' when they weren't sure). If you want to have a positive relationship with a "non-binary," you probably have to use what they ask you for after X interactions I believe
I hope my perspective somehow answers you

>>16816482
So there's no actual harm?

>>16816455
Don't care at all, so long as it's not made into an organizing principle of society. And to the extent that it's sexualized, that the sexualization is limited to the same audiences we deem appropriate for heterosexual strip clubs and cabarets.

>>16816475
Have you ever had to speak to an ugly person, but you had to play nice, because that's the polite thing to do? I would assume it's like that
>>16816476
>push that the norm isn’t the norm
You just have to log off the internet?
>>16816479
>Half of the scientific community can’t tell you what a women is
I'm sure they could. It's just some people don't like nuanced answers apparently? Like it *is* an interesting question, because we gender people every day and we categorize them subconsciously

>>16816482
Ok, but what's the harm in referring to a tranny by its biological sex?
> If you want to have a positive relationship ...
I don't care to have any relationship with trannies at all, but what's the harm in simply speaking the truth?

>>16816492
>Have you ever had to speak to an ugly person, but you had to play nice, because that's the polite thing to do? I would assume it's like that
It's more akin to an ugly person insisting they look amazing and feeling forced to agree with them, which would indeed be draining

>>16816490
>an organizing principle of society
gay agenda steering the government behind the curtain? everyone knows that the government positions are reserved for white men

>>16816492
It’s not an interesting question. A woman is someone who menstruates. If you fail to menstruate that’s an issue with your biological makeup.

>>16816492
>You just have to log off the internet?
You're not actually in academia are you

>>16816497
>Ok, but what's the harm in referring to a tranny by its biological sex?
So are you asking about theyfabs now or trannies?
>I don't care to have any relationship with trannies at all
Then why think about it at all. Don't let them live rent-free in your head. Gender people irl according to your natural intuition

>>16816499
You're joking, right? No, a census category, a protected class, a public carveout, anything more than you'd get for having a certain hair color or hobby.

Did I click on /pol/ by mistake?

>>16816513
idk did you click on a thread that was obviously going to annoy you by mistake?

>>16816518
This is /sci/ - Science & Math. You seem to be lost.

>>16816504
>Then why think about it at all
Hypothetically, because a random circumstance forces me to interact with one, but I can tell it's not actually female.

>>16816521
>I hate this thread so much I will keep coming back to it
why do people do this?

>>16816498
If someone *insist* they are pretty to a random person, then that is annoying in of itself. Daily interactions between people, at least here, are pretty minimalist, so I don't really know when you *have to* gender anyone in words
>>16816501
>A woman is someone who menstruates
But prepubescent, pregnant, elderly, hysterectomy, and birth-control women don't menstruate obviously?

>>16816522
In a *hypothetical* scenario, you don't really have to use any pronouns besides "You" in a conversation

>>16816528
>so I don't really know when you *have to* gender anyone in words
pronouns?

>>16816531
Reasonable attitude but a lot of people insist on correcting third-person pronouns even when the person being talked about isn't there

>>16816531
>In a *hypothetical* scenario, you don't really have to use any pronouns besides "You" in a conversation
That's not generally true. Why are you so invested in lying and gaslighting about this?

>>16816528
>But prepubescent, pregnant, elderly, hysterectomy, and birth-control women don't menstruate obviously
They’re still born with the biological makeup with menstruation in-goal, you enormous fucking fucktard.

>>16816513
How is basic biology /pol/?

Jesus Christ.

There is no nuance. Gametes are as simple as sin. Life starts there and its goal is to make more.

As Einstein put it — “if you can’t explain something simply enough, then you don’t understand it well enough”

>>16816547
Summarizes trannies well. They all do this sort of weird word game. They clearly don’t understand biology if they can only look at the weirdos and not the standard.

>>16816546
No, but breitbart articles are.

>>16816541
So is it "people who mensturate" (lol) or "people with biological make-up with menstruation in-goal"?

>>16816535
>>16816536
I don't understand how this actually bothers anyone. If I called a guy "she," then they would get upset pretty understandably. Treating this like an act of violence on myself feels pretty unreasonable to me

>>16816551
>ctrl f breitbart
>1 hit (you)
Did you mean to complain about a different thread?

>>16816554
>So is it "people who mensturate" (lol) or "people with biological make-up with menstruation in-goal"?
This is some quantum level hair splitting. I don’t think you realize how butthurt and demented you sound right now.

>>16816554
When societal pressure forces me to consistently call men "she" it's also upsetting

>>16816554
What if you called a white guy white and he got really upset and was like, no, you call me Black. What do?

>>16816554
>If I called a guy "she," then they would get upset pretty understandably.
Ok, now the mask is slipping a bit. "Understandably upset" normally implies someone was behaving reasonably when some misfortune had befallen them, making it "understandable" for a normal person why they'd feel wronged. If I call a man pretending a girl a "he", is it "understandable" for them to get upset? Or is it more understandable for me to be disgusted?

>>16816547
>There is no nuance
lol okay?
>Gametes are as simple as sin
If sin is simple, then why killing someone in your own defense is morally good, even though "you shall not kill"? Even 10 commandments have edge cases that we consider moral
>its goal is to make more
Don't you think it would be more accurate to say that life doesn't have a "goal"? Life just *is*, and it *is* because it replicates itself over time

>>16816554
>"people who mensturate"
>"people with biological make-up with menstruation in-goal"?
These are indistinguishable. If you think they aren’t you’re beneath my intellectual level. In a better world you wouldn’t be allowed to converse with intelligent people.

>if trannies aren't real women then why is it ok to kill someone in self-defense?
>check-mate, chud
Psychosis

>>16816554
>>16816560
Then what if he used his "Blackness" to start walking into Black spaces and conversations, saying nigger all the time, talking shit about how low IQ Black people are? No problem, right?

>>16816565
>"people who mensturate"
In the sense that life is an unaware idiot? Sure. It’s not a sapient goal. But I would not argue it has no goal, no. Survival is a goal. Propagation is a goal. Causality has goals simply by way of running/existing.

>>16816565
>Don't you think it would be more accurate to say that life doesn't have a "goal"? Life just *is*, and it *is* because it replicates itself over time

You really think evolution has no goal? It’s a fact that the environment dictates life and evolution serves to best manage. Even if it ends with blind cave fish sucking on rocks — that was still the goal so they could survive living in a fucking boring ass cave.

You’re coping if you think life has no goal. You’re only looking at it from a human perspective and I find that funny.

>>16816565
When biologists state that survival and propagation are the "purest goal of life," they are not attributing a conscious motive to living things, the way you are.

Instead, this is a metaphorical way of describing the fundamental, underlying principle of natural selection and evolution. From a biological perspective, any living thing that successfully survives and reproduces will pass its genetic material to the next generation. That’s the goal of life. Continual.

Do not argue with trannies. They are literal black holes.

>>16816565
>Don't you think it would be more accurate to say that life doesn't have a "goal"?
The word "goal" isn't a perfect match for the situation, but the aspects of it that apply to this discussion encapsulate precisely why sane biologists came up with the model that they did instead of your insane infinite genders model. Reality favors a certain type of outcome and biology reflects this.

The intellectual bar has been lowered so low by the trans ideology it has reached a black hole point and will never be brought back up.

>>16816573
>>16816574
>>16816576
>>16816580
Nothing you say will reach them. You can’t fix stupid. I’m sorry to have to tell you this.

What is the Meaning of Life? To Live. It’s that simple. But for some reason endless philosophical tards make it more complex than it is.

>>16816580
>your insane infinite genders model
Why are you projecting someone else's views on me? I already specified that I don't really agree with any of the "non-binary" stuff

>Imagine going 200+ posts in about something even cavemen understood
/thread

>>16816586
>Why are you projecting someone else's views on me?
I am talking about your views, which you think you're cleverly hiding, even though your mask slips every time someone pushes you a bit too hard.

>>16816588
>I am talking about your views, which you think you're cleverly hiding
I literally made a post stating that earlier.
I guess with the "goal" thing that's just semantics to me. And I can't really argue that using someone's "pronouns" is just a *polite thing to do*, and it smooths out any interactions I had and will have with the kind of colored-hair people, because it does not concern me what other people do in the end

>>16816587
cavemen didn't know about traps

>>16816592
>I guess with the "goal" thing that's just semantics to me.
To be fair. You’re already an idiot for not knowing what he meant by the word. Any biologist would understand the relation of “goal” and “evolution”.

>>16816592
>it does not concern me what other people do in the end
Good thing we've settled that it does not concern you when others are understandably disgusted with men pretending to be women and other assertive public exhibitions of delusional mental illness. Nor should it concern you when the culprits get upset, which is no more "understandable" than it is for a schizophrenic who falsely perceives that everyone is trying to swindle him out of what's rightfully his, even though everyone can understand that feeling that you've been swindled is upsetting.

>>16816596
Probably because they didn’t care. A hole’s a hole.

Um. What. The goal of life IS its continual and you all sicken me.

>>16816600
>disgusted with men pretending to be women and other assertive public exhibitions of delusional mental illness
You saw some pictures of ugly people doing weird things and made your conclusion that millions must die. I am no less disgusted than you at these things and that's frankly a natural reaction, but reality isn't the internet, is it? Why should I hate the people I actually know and talk to?

>You saw some pictures of ugly people doing weird things and made your conclusion that millions must die
Wat

>>16816608
>i know trannies and i talk to them and they're TOTALLY not like what trannies look and act like when they go online
Mask slips again. At least you concede that it is understandable for people to be disgusted with trannies and not at all understandable for trannies to be "upset" about this natural reaction to their unreasonable behavior.

>>16816613
>be disgusted with trannies
People are disgusted with ugly people. It seems to me that the pretty troons have it easier, no? Alex Johnes paraded one on his show

>>16816616
>y-y-you're n-not disgusted by trannies, it's just ugly people!
Mask slips again. At least you concede that it is understandable for people to be disgusted with trannies and not at all understandable for trannies to be "upset" about this natural reaction to their unreasonable behavior.

>>16816618
I wouldn't say it is "understandable," but I'm not surprised that some people are apprehensive to the idea, no
>y-y-you're n-not disgusted by trannies, it's just ugly people!
It was my impression that the troons are always made fun of for being "ugly." At least the ones that are. And that the acceptance is proportional with "hotness"

>>16816627
>I wouldn't say it is "understandable,"
It used to be very understandable. In most of the world, it still is. How come it's suddenly not understandable to be disgusted with men pretending to be women, in countries where your kind is allowed to preach its gospel?

No really. Point out where the mythical third gamete is. I’m still waiting on it.

>some psychosis about a third gamete again
Trannies and their absolute state.

>>16815980
There are people who have XY chromosomes but are born with a vagina and don't know they have XY without genetic testing. They are generally cis women, i.e. people designated female at birth and who identify as female. (And conversely, of the people with XX chromosomes who are born with a penis and designated as male at birth on that basis, it is statistically almost certain that at least one has ended up identifying as a woman.)
>>16816162
Same deal- "trans" means identifying as a different gender then that assigned at birth, and there have been people who were designated "male" at birth based on the appearance of their external genitalia but actually had internal ovaries, and who ended up identifying as women. (And conversely there are people whose genitals were assessed as "female" at birth but whose vagina didn't fully form properly for whatever reason, necessitating reconstructive surgery.)
>>16815967
...are you suggesting that nobody has a right to medical treatment and no medical treatment should be covered by taxpayer money?
>>16815981
You can notice the ways in which trans women are different from cis women while still acknowledging that transition is, empirically, necessary to their quality of life.

>>16816507
So if they face discrimination they should have no protection whatsoever against it?

>>16817018
>acknowledging that transition is, empirically, necessary to their quality of life.
>acknowledging empirically
Empirically, pumping mentally ill men full of female hormone mimickers does not improve their condition, if everyone else keeps treating them like mentally ill men. Since your proposed "treatment" doesn't prevent them acting out mentally ill behaviors and asserting delusional beliefs in public, it is wholly ineffective.

You have zero arguments against this, only Talmudic chanting.

>>16817047
https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/
As you can see, this subject has been extensively studied.

>>16817018
>acknowledging that transition is, empirically, necessary to their quality of life.
>acknowledging empirically
Empirically, pumping mentally ill men full of female hormone mimickers does not improve their condition, if everyone else keeps treating them like mentally ill men. Since your proposed "treatment" doesn't prevent them acting out mentally ill behaviors and asserting delusional beliefs in public, it is wholly ineffective.

You have zero arguments against this, only Talmudic chanting. You will demonstrate that over and over again.

>>16817053
I just cited a mountain of scientific studies >>16817049. Do you have any studies? This is the science board.

>>16817018
>acknowledging that transition is, empirically, necessary to their quality of life.
>acknowledging empirically
Empirically, pumping mentally ill men full of female hormone mimickers does not improve their condition, if everyone else keeps treating them like mentally ill men. Since your proposed "treatment" doesn't prevent them acting out mentally ill behaviors and asserting delusional beliefs in public, it is wholly ineffective.

This post will receive a reply from a mentally ill tranny, containing no counter-argument.

>>16817060
Again, what do you say to all the studies cited here? >>16817049

Notice how the mentally ill troon thinks linking to generic webpages is an argument. This is part of a broader pattern of the troon is forced to appeal to authority to validate its condition, which eventually leads to the troon calling the cops on you for calling a man a man, then turning around and pretending female hormones successfuly treat his condition.

Not a single coherent anti-tranny post has been seen in here. Instead, we have autists stimming with repetitive statements and retards who would believe anything on twitter

>>16817069
How exactly should I give evidence for such a claim if not citing empirical studies?

>>16815759
>it perhaps shouldn't exist for those that cannot contribute to the betterment and survival of the species
What role do you play in this game, as a life-long virgin?

>>16817072
>How exactly should I give evidence for such a claim
It's impossible for you to give evidence for such a claim because the argument presented refutes that entire class of claims and you can't address the argument, rendering all your appeals to authority irrelevant.

>>16817079
A theoretical argument from your armchair cannot, by definition, say anything about an empirical question.

>>16817080
>Ummm, sweaty????
>It's only theoretical that trannies need other people to uphold their "identity" and play along with their delusions
>That's why they lose their minds whenever someone steps out of line with their tranny ideology and do everything they can to turn the nearest authority against the transgressor

>>16817082
I think it should not be illegal to misgender people, but I think other people have the right to choose not to associate you if you do, just like they have the right to choose not to associate with you if you engage in any other unpleasant behavior.

>>16817060
> your proposed "treatment" doesn't prevent them acting out mentally ill behaviors and asserting delusional beliefs in public, it is wholly ineffective.
It's not supposed to be effective. Unleashing delusional cross-dressers upon societies that will never accept them is intentional. It's an engineering effort to simulate an off-brand Weimar climate and create off-brand "Nazis". Once that's accomplished, you know what comes next.

>>16817018
>acknowledging that transition is, empirically, necessary to their quality of life.
>acknowledging empirically
Empirically, pumping mentally ill men full of female hormone mimickers does not improve their condition, if everyone else keeps treating them like mentally ill men. Since your proposed "treatment" doesn't prevent them acting out mentally ill behaviors and asserting delusional beliefs in public, it is wholly ineffective.

This post will receive a reply from a mentally ill tranny, containing no counter-argument.

>>16817085
>ummmm sweaty? think i have a heckin' right for this institution/society/planet/universe not to associate with evil nazis like you
>that's why we need to raise awareness!

>>16817087
I like how you put a clause in to cover your ass from any conceivable counterargument, very smart.

>>16817089
I like how you repeatedly concede that no "counterargument" is possible for the fact that if people just treat you like the mentally ill crossdressing faggot that you are, "transitioning" will soon lead to you exercising the only right you actually have, which is to end your own life.

>>16817090
I'm not even a tranny, but yes there is a bit of research indicating that transition helps these people.

Here is one commissioned by the Utah legislature, it was about adolescent transitioning which is already considered far less certain by the medical community and yet it still found it to be somewhat positive.

https://le.utah.gov/AgencyRP/reportingDetail.jsp?rid=636

It's true that artificially replacing the sex hormone in someone isn't the same as having that chromosome naturally, but like, the patients seem to like it and it doesn't kill them so that is that.

>>16817091
>broken-bot-type psychotic nonsequitur
I like how you repeatedly concede that no "counterargument" is possible for the fact that if people just treat you like the mentally ill crossdressing faggot that you are, "transitioning" will soon lead to you exercising the only right you actually have, which is to end your own life.

>>16817092
trans kid helpful medical computer addiction transition retard kill hospital hormone treatment


A
R
E

Y
O
U

R
O
B
O
T

>>16817096
>broken-bot-type psychotic nonsequitur
I like how you repeatedly concede that no "counterargument" is possible for the fact that if people just treat you like the mentally ill crossdressing faggot that you are, "transitioning" will soon lead to you exercising the only right you actually have, which is to end your own life.

>>16817097
>broken-bot-type psychotic nonsequitur
I like how you repeatedly concede that no "counterargument" is possible for the fact that if people just treat you like the mentally ill crossdressing faggot that you are, "transitioning" will soon lead to you exercising the only right you actually have, which is to end your own life.

>>16817049
>As you can see, this subject has been extensively studied.
It isn't extensively studied. Tiny population samples can't be taken as representative of population-level. No long-term data, no randomized trials, muddled diagnostic criteria, reliance on subjective questionnaires. There's a large epistemic gap between what you see in these studies and what is appropriate in the complex situation which reality is.
It's interesting and it opens the door for many questions, but it isn't empirical justification for transitioning

>>16817102
there is light evidence that it might help, for the most part though I agree with the stance that it is ultimately a personal choice, the doctor shouldn't push you towards or away from it.

I guess you could say "right to live in body you want", whether it is the right decision or not is only known to the patient.

>>16817102
It isn't studied at all - extensively or otherwise. You can't actually study this because you'd need to do it in a society that hasn't been getting brainwashed and terrorized by troon ideology for a decade. Helping people "transition" in such a society would obviously be considered unethical because everyone understands they'd be shunned at best, if not beaten/killed by hooligans.

>>16817103
>I guess you could say "right to live in body you want",
No country on this planet acknowledges any such right.

>>16817104
Trannies have been a medical curiosity for like a hundred years now, the last decade is when the news decided people like you needed to care about it.

>>16817107
I don't think its such a bad right is it?

>>16817109
>mentally ill troon changes tactics and tries to transition the line of discussion

>>16817102
It isn't studied at all - extensively or otherwise. You can't actually study this because you'd need to do it in a society that hasn't been getting brainwashed and terrorized by troon ideology for a decade. Helping people "transition" in such a society would obviously be considered unethical because everyone understands they'd be shunned at best, if not beaten/killed by hooligans.

>>16817104
>You can't actually study this because you'd need to do it in a society that hasn't been getting brainwashed and terrorized by troon ideology for a decade.
You know people have been studying it for more than a decade right? Ever heard of the Institut fuer Sexualwissenschaft? Oh, wait, that's right, Hitler burned their library.
>>16817107
How about right to bodily autonomy?

>>16817111
>I don't think its such a bad right is it?
No country on this planet acknowledges any such right.

>>16817113
I'm not gonna lie I think you are arguing with the element between aluminium and phosphorous

(don't say the b word I wanna keep experimenting)

>>16817114
but rights are good transitioning is literally valid medical procedure purple monkey dishwasher

>>16817112
its not brainwashing its lead replenishing go back to r/conservative

>>16817113
>Ever heard of the Institut fuer Sexualwissenschaft? Oh, wait, that's right, Hitler burned their library.
Yes. Like I said: it isn't studied at all - extensively or otherwise. You can't actually study this because you'd need to do it in a society that hasn't been getting brainwashed and terrorized by troon ideology for a decade. Helping people "transition" in such a society would obviously be considered unethical because everyone understands they'd be shunned at best, if not beaten/killed by hooligans.

>How about right to bodily autonomy?
Funnily enough, this is another "right" that doesn't actually exist anywhere, regardless of various regimes falsely advertising it. Governments won't hesitate to deny your "right" to bodily autonomy whenever they see fit. But I digress...

Go cut off your own cock if you want. Maybe extract xenoestrogen from plastics and inject it. That's autonomy. Using a society's medical services for this is not a right and has nothing to do with bodily autonomy.

>>16817103
>I guess you could say "right to live in body you want",
No country on this planet acknowledges any such right.

>>16817117
>but rights are good
And yet no country on this planet acknowledges any such right. You don't have that right.

>>16817118
prove you are a being of flesh as I am and we can continue this discussion

>>16817118
>You can't actually study this because you'd need to do it in a society that hasn't been getting brainwashed and terrorized by troon ideology for a decade.
What about all the studies from more than a decade ago?

>>16817122
>What about all the studies from more than a decade ago?
They don't matter. What we need to see is the studies a decade from now. :^)

>>16817125
Why don't they matter?

>>16817103
>there is light evidence that it might help
Yeah but the problem I always find by these studies is, "help" in what way?
Does it make people feel better about themselves? Even with the subjectivity involved here, I think there's enough reporting to say that the majority of people with gender dysphoria *do* feel better about themselves when they go through high quality treatment with additional follow up medical support.
But then I have to ask, is feeling better about oneself for 6 months-2 years after treatment worth the issues one might face for the rest of their life, infertility, bone loss issues... some studies find that the brain re-structures itself after hormone therapy too and we just have no idea the risks here. It's philosophically interesting in a way because we can't have a counterfactual, e.g. we can't compare someone 10 years down the road with HRT vs the same person without it. We simply just have to weigh up "they seem to say they feel good... so that's good enough". That's scary as fuck

>>16817104
It is studied somewhat, we know some surface aspects like physical changes involved and there is a pattern in self-reporting. It's too far to say "it's not studied at all". I do generally agree with your underlying point that there's just so many confounding factors societally with people getting "brainwashed" and stuff, on both sides. I also do think there's a huge risk of unethicality here medically, especially if there's a pathway to "cure" gender dysphoria in some way other than affirmation and transition. And there is some literature to suggest that some people do simply just 'grow out of it', which I think should universally be seen as the best outcome

>>16817126
if observation doesn't line up with what i know is true it means that my observations are wrong

>>16817126
>Why don't they matter?
We've already covered this 15+ times: because they weren't conducted in an environment that allows you to test how well the "treatment" works when other people are oblivious to the fact that your insane behavior is a "treatment" rather than a symptom.

>>16817128
Bone loss is avoided if you don't underdose, infertility I don't think matters much if your a queer but maybe it sucks for straight guys transitioning.

It is kinda scary but so are a lot of other potentially useful things.

>>16817132
also the brain restructing thing is roughtly the brain going in-line with what the desired sex is, it is scary because of dementia risk potentially, but it is also a desired effect.

>also the brain restructing thing is roughtly the brain going in-line with what the desired sex is
These "people" are actually insane. There is zero reason not to institutionalize this poster.

>>16817137
its literally what happens though, if you take estrogen the parts for stuff females are good at grow and the male parts shrink a bit. They shove trannies in MRI machines and that's what happens.

>>16817128
We have a few examples of trannies who did it really early on and lived good full lives, unfortunately even the statistical health data is fucked because being a tranny is such a hard life on its own its hard to tell how much was the HRT and how much was other stuff.

>>16817139
>my brain is deforming and i'm getting psychotic episodes and dementia
>that means i'm more female now
Forced institutionalization is the only treatment. These "people" in fact keep asking for a controlled environment for their condition, and such a thing already exists: it's called a mental hospital.

>>16817142
The 2 closest examples I can think of for things that don't disproportionately smoke and get AIDS:

Eunichs can live very long times (I have heard longer than normal), but if castration occurs when post pubescent it seems to shrink lifespan slightly.

Some people have hormone disorders so they get female characteristics with Y chromosome, they are healthy enough but infertile. This is sort of a natural tranny in some ways.

For the rest, idk we just have to guess. The standard hormone used now is proper estrogen, they haven't used estrogen mimicks since the 20th century ever since they figured out how to cheaply manufacture proper estradiol (this helps out normal women receiving menopause treatment too).

You can’t cure stupid. Trannies will forever be a retarded danger to education purely because they’re emotion over reason.

>>16817020
No more than a girl with red hair who gets picked on for having red hair.

>>16817132
A lifetime of accurately dosing is then required to keep bone loss limited - that's not exactly ideal and I think it would be miraculous for someone to perfectly exogenously maintain hormone levels for their lifetime. Additionally, a male on female hormones undergoes changes in bone microarchitecture, which as of yet isn't fully understood. Medically this can be mostly accepted due to trans women having more male-sized bones to account for the drop off... again though, in my eyes this isn't ideal vs a non-HRT equivalent

"it sucks for straight guys transitioning" is an understatement, not to mention queer people who may want to have children in the future through all the methods we have available, or the people who get caught up in the system, change their mind, and have irreversible damage

>>16817142
No doubt they have the potential to live a good and full life, similarly (this is an extreme exaggeration to make my point) people who have had their arms removed can live a good and full life. The point still remains is that the chance for a better life is much higher if that person somehow 'grows out' of gender dysphoria and then manages to live a more typical life.

>>16817018
>...are you suggesting that nobody has a right to medical treatment and no medical treatment should be covered by taxpayer money?
Try reading. Whatever you're doing isn't that.

>>16817020
>So if they face discrimination they should have no protection whatsoever against it?
Can you explain logically what the problem is with people deciding to "discriminate" aberrations? No? Then yes, they should have no protection whatsoever against it.

>>16817166
NTA. If you go out of your way to bully people, especially if you do it as a gang, that's nigger behavior and you belong in a zoo, not in a western country. That said, nothing about being a tranny is any more special or important than being retarded, short, ugly, blonde, too poor to buy cool clothes, etc. It has absolutely no value as a functional or legal category in society.

>>16817171
>If you go out of your way to bully people
Quote the part of my post that says anything about "going out of your way to bully people". You can't because you're a nigger and your post itself is typical nigger behavior trying to establish dominance only to get shot down immediately.

>>16817173
You're still at it? The way you fight for this quite ignoble cause suggests that you yourself are fighting with tranny thoughts?

>>16817173
Who gives a fuck what you wrote, ESL nigger. You can't even speak English. My opinion is the only one that matters and you should simply shut the fuck up and listen.

>>16817176
>gets schooled
>immediate psychotic breakdown ensues
Tranny-tier emotional incontinence.

>>16817139
>my brain is deforming and i'm getting psychotic episodes and dementia
>that means i'm more female now
Forced institutionalization is the only treatment. These "people" in fact keep asking for a controlled environment for their condition, and such a thing already exists: it's called a mental hospital.

>>16817175
>i'm struggling with tranny thoughts
See above.

>>16817179
>Indian-tier headcanon

>thank you for applying, sir. we'll call you back
>NOOOO!!! FUCKING NIGGERS ARE BULLYING ME AGAIN REEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

>>16817182
You're the only person ITT who needs to be in a mental institution, anon. Quite obvious from an outsider's perspective

>>16817186
>Indian reply syntax

>>16817139
>my brain is deforming and i'm getting psychotic episodes and dementia
>that means i'm more female now
Forced institutionalization is the only treatment. These "people" in fact keep asking for a controlled environment for their condition, and such a thing already exists: it's called a mental hospital.

>>16817175
>i'm struggling with tranny thoughts
See above.

>>16817187
>n-n-no YOU need to be locked up, chud!!
>it's obvious from my outsider perspective
So you demand that I respect the lived experiences of marginalized minorities?

>The tranny research has too low of a sample! How can we know that people *actually* benefit from treatments?
Okay, so we need more research to confirm?

If you feel the need to shit on trannies/traps on the internet, then either
1. you are trying to cope with your own tranny thoughts
2. a grifter manipulated you into believing that biden is gonna kidnap your kids to perform surgeries on

>>16817332
There's plenty of pre-AI video evidence that Biden does in fact want to kidnap your kids but to use as a sniffing bouquet, not for cosmetic surgeries.

>>16817332
>Okay, so we need more research to confirm?
Yes. Specifically, we need to conduct this research in a pre-LGBT-"rights" context, where the people were by default uncooperative towards tranny delusions, or any public displays of degenerate behavior. Then we can gauge how much of your "treatment" actually addresses your core problem vs. how much it is about others being brainwashed and/or forced to tolerate you.

>>16817332
The onus is on you to demonstrate why we should medically experiment on children.

>>16817378
>uhm, ACK-CHUALLY, the anus is on YOU to demonstrate the virtues of mutilating children
>this is an acceptable position to entertain because I'm 100% confident you will never find """scientists""" and """healthcare professionals""" who will support you
>i am very intellectual and scientific and open-minded, you see!
This is why you keep losing.

>>16817370
>others being brainwashed and/or forced to tolerate you
>"I cannot connive why someone might want to change their sex, therefore I believe they have been brainwashed."

>tranny delusions
>degenerate behavior
Loaded language

> we need to conduct this research in a pre-LGBT-"rights" context
>"We need to stop conducting [treatment] to see if people actually benefit from [treatment]."
yeah okay bro

>>16817378
No one experiments on children. Nazis did and they hated trannies

>>16817424
>others being brainwashed and/or forced to tolerate you
>"I cannot conceive* why someone might want to change their sex, therefore I believe they have been brainwashed."

>>16817332
>Okay, so we need more research to confirm?
Yes. Specifically, we need to conduct this research in a pre-LGBT-"rights" context, where the people were by default uncooperative towards tranny delusions, or any public displays of degenerate behavior. Then we can gauge how much of your "treatment" actually addresses your core problem vs. how much it is about others being brainwashed and/or forced to tolerate you.

>>16817424
>>>"We need to stop conducting [treatment] to see if people actually benefit from [treatment]."
Whom are you quoting? Take your risperidone. Right now.

The answer is pretty simple:
male = XY + AI
female = XX + AI
because AI transcends gender boundaries and makes sex obsolete, demonstrating the possibility of future with true equality

>>16813862 (OP)
Yes we ain't got no 3rd gamete, just the little and the big. So in one sense OP is correct. But between those 2 sized gametes there is a near-infinite spectrum of phenotype. So in another sense OP is a fag.

new thread
>>16819590
>>16819590
>>16819590
>>16819590