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7/12/2025, 5:29:16 AM
>>63972010
Some of it is lost technology, and also the industry being much more closed-off nowadays than twenty years ago. Ceradyne was not the only company with serious shit behind closed doors. Tencate had flexible "Ceraflex" plates like the PL-7300 rated to defeat M995 / M993 as early as 2003. ICW IIIA, around the weight of REV. A XSAPI. Allegedly saw use with Blackwater in the mid-00s. Not to mention LIBA, which while flawed was refined over time and is now a much more competent product. I'd be willing to bet they didn't stop innovating on Ceraflex either.
Point three with Tencate. Their strongest plate is the CX-950 IC, which is about 9lb and needs soft armor. Rated for 7.62x51 Swiss P AP per PM-12, three times. Sounds damn heavy, but the way Tencate's Multi-Light lineup works (CS - low, CX - mid, CXP - high-end) that's a mid-range plate. Where's the CXP-950?
Point is, every OEM except RMA and maybe Highcom has a secret black-side catalog. I'd reckon LTC has improved on the 28601 three times over since it won the FBI XSAPI contract a decade ago.
Hesco's lineup is probably a lot diceier. As the other armor dude mentioned, they really should be using their black-side lineup to shore up their mixed white-side lineup. 4801 is super meh, the 3801 / 3811 need proving, and the 3814 needs to lose some weight. The 3885 would be useful.
>They claim a lot but wont subject themselves to outside validation beyond youtube
There are test reports like pic related, December 2024 4x Swiss P AP. Can Adept or whoever their OEM is make a Swiss P AP stopping plate? Sure. My concern is whether they can do quality control. Zero NIJ certs and Jake's had since 2016 to get some. Plenty of plates went to youtubers.
>But if their colossus changed performance
Maybe, or to give them the benefit of the doubt, they revised the Colossus in anticipation of .07 so they wouldn't have to certify it twice. Then again, you don't know about ringers unless you shoot your own with Swiss P AP.
Some of it is lost technology, and also the industry being much more closed-off nowadays than twenty years ago. Ceradyne was not the only company with serious shit behind closed doors. Tencate had flexible "Ceraflex" plates like the PL-7300 rated to defeat M995 / M993 as early as 2003. ICW IIIA, around the weight of REV. A XSAPI. Allegedly saw use with Blackwater in the mid-00s. Not to mention LIBA, which while flawed was refined over time and is now a much more competent product. I'd be willing to bet they didn't stop innovating on Ceraflex either.
Point three with Tencate. Their strongest plate is the CX-950 IC, which is about 9lb and needs soft armor. Rated for 7.62x51 Swiss P AP per PM-12, three times. Sounds damn heavy, but the way Tencate's Multi-Light lineup works (CS - low, CX - mid, CXP - high-end) that's a mid-range plate. Where's the CXP-950?
Point is, every OEM except RMA and maybe Highcom has a secret black-side catalog. I'd reckon LTC has improved on the 28601 three times over since it won the FBI XSAPI contract a decade ago.
Hesco's lineup is probably a lot diceier. As the other armor dude mentioned, they really should be using their black-side lineup to shore up their mixed white-side lineup. 4801 is super meh, the 3801 / 3811 need proving, and the 3814 needs to lose some weight. The 3885 would be useful.
>They claim a lot but wont subject themselves to outside validation beyond youtube
There are test reports like pic related, December 2024 4x Swiss P AP. Can Adept or whoever their OEM is make a Swiss P AP stopping plate? Sure. My concern is whether they can do quality control. Zero NIJ certs and Jake's had since 2016 to get some. Plenty of plates went to youtubers.
>But if their colossus changed performance
Maybe, or to give them the benefit of the doubt, they revised the Colossus in anticipation of .07 so they wouldn't have to certify it twice. Then again, you don't know about ringers unless you shoot your own with Swiss P AP.
6/22/2025, 8:46:56 PM
>>63880193
Excellent. Thanks!
I however see some discrepancies and the fact that while this is hosted on their site, it's been six months and I do not see it on the Colossus' actual webpage, just the 1x M993 report. Why?
1. If we compare the Dec2024 Colossus to the old 2/8/22 Swiss P AP test, it is apparent that the BFD in the new one is significantly higher. 30.56mm is the lowest, 43.60mm highest, and an N/A (>44mm?). Old 2/8/22 plate's lowest BFD was 22.5mm, highest 37.5mm. Furthermore, the old single-hit M993 test report had a singular BFD of 24.1mm - consistent with the 2/8/22 but not the new one. This isn't good and suggests that either the clay is different or they changed something between the white/black-covered 2022 plates and the newer model. Either difference in clay or the backer performs worse than it used to? Concerning if that's the case and all the youtubers got their plates years ago.
2. The plate apparently changed dimensions, albeit within potentially marginal tolerances. Dec2024 test report plate is 9.75x11.5", weight 6.638lb, weight-wise consistent with the 2/8/22 but not the 9.5x11.5" M993 plate. M993 plate is 6.48lb. Again, marginal tolerances. I think the M948 plate was actually 10x12" but I don't have that one in front of me ATM.
3. This does not reconcile earlier concerns regarding lack of NIJ certification, apparent lack of VPAM certification (2022 test report doesn't count as previously discussed), or manufacturing location / concerns materials are Chinese import since Ganor is demonstrably from Kowloon, HK per his prior patent application.
Overall, good test report, but it only substantiates concerns that there are QC discrepancies and the plates evidentially do not perform consistently. The BFD differences between the Dec2024 and 2/8/22 reports show enough of that.
Adept needs to buckle down, get NIJ certified, and quit pissing time & resources on cute test reports for Instagram. They have no certs. Large batch testing is needed here.
Excellent. Thanks!
I however see some discrepancies and the fact that while this is hosted on their site, it's been six months and I do not see it on the Colossus' actual webpage, just the 1x M993 report. Why?
1. If we compare the Dec2024 Colossus to the old 2/8/22 Swiss P AP test, it is apparent that the BFD in the new one is significantly higher. 30.56mm is the lowest, 43.60mm highest, and an N/A (>44mm?). Old 2/8/22 plate's lowest BFD was 22.5mm, highest 37.5mm. Furthermore, the old single-hit M993 test report had a singular BFD of 24.1mm - consistent with the 2/8/22 but not the new one. This isn't good and suggests that either the clay is different or they changed something between the white/black-covered 2022 plates and the newer model. Either difference in clay or the backer performs worse than it used to? Concerning if that's the case and all the youtubers got their plates years ago.
2. The plate apparently changed dimensions, albeit within potentially marginal tolerances. Dec2024 test report plate is 9.75x11.5", weight 6.638lb, weight-wise consistent with the 2/8/22 but not the 9.5x11.5" M993 plate. M993 plate is 6.48lb. Again, marginal tolerances. I think the M948 plate was actually 10x12" but I don't have that one in front of me ATM.
3. This does not reconcile earlier concerns regarding lack of NIJ certification, apparent lack of VPAM certification (2022 test report doesn't count as previously discussed), or manufacturing location / concerns materials are Chinese import since Ganor is demonstrably from Kowloon, HK per his prior patent application.
Overall, good test report, but it only substantiates concerns that there are QC discrepancies and the plates evidentially do not perform consistently. The BFD differences between the Dec2024 and 2/8/22 reports show enough of that.
Adept needs to buckle down, get NIJ certified, and quit pissing time & resources on cute test reports for Instagram. They have no certs. Large batch testing is needed here.
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