Post gear, discuss gear
IFAK appreciation thread
Previous: >>63855228

>>63875731 (OP)
Picrel = based BBG IFAK "infographic" (the only infographic this thread needs, damnit)

>>63875731 (OP)
>page 2
Relax you fucking newfag.

>>63875741
Excellent material for the IFAK infographic. Bunkbudguy's legacy will be preserved.

>>63875741

I'm debating on updating this with the USMC LITE plate. 3.4lb ICW mil soft armor, 0.56" thick, rated for M855A1 and BZ API. I cannot find a reliable source ywt indicating they're rated for .308 / 7.62x54, so they're assumed SRT-level.

Belt infographic from last thread.

And gas mask infographic from last thread. That's all I'm posting for now unless anons want a copy of any previous infographics.

>>63875945
Why did you list the airboss c4? While it's a cool looking mask it's unobtanium and the green version is supposed to be far superior to the black version if I recall correctly.

>>63875906
All good. The last one he had sold for $450, the one on auction is still $410. I bet if you shoot him an offer for $500-550 he'll deal or counter at $600. He seems to have a reliable supply of these, which is suspicious given that these... are... you know...
Realistically the LA-12 Glizzy (I'm posting the LAM infographic, sorry!) is a very niche case item. It's just a very, very powerful green laser. Using it as a dazzler in a civilian context is lawsuit bait of the highest order.

>WW2/Korean War
>Early Nam
>Later Nam
>Urgent Fury
>Desert Storm
>Early GWOT
>Later GWOT
>Modern
Which ones had the best kits/packs/gear/etc.?

>>63875954
Secprousa has the large available for $399. My understanding of the colors is that original ones were black and green, military ones are now green and the current civvy CBRN black one is fine.
That's good intel though and will go on the 1.01 version, thanks!

Thoughts on Eagle Yote/Beavertails? I know AWS makes alternatives for under $200

Kinda insane how much AVS1000 packs go for, same with the Firstspear stuff. I've also considered an HPG Umlindi with the Admin Pocket.

I'm wondering if I should just buy some chinese shit and modify it to my needs

>>63875741
Personally, I just got one of those stop the bleed kits from rescue essentials and loaded my IFAK up with that stuff. I've built up kits piecemeal in the past, but I found that getting the pre built kit isn't really much more expensive.

>>63875928
Work on actually making the infographics that matter like the fuckin ifak one before you update your niche armor that no one here buys one. Unless you want me to take over for you. You're kind of bad at this.

>>63876032
lol
If you wanna help out, more the merrier.

>>63876032
You won't do shit.

>>63876032
>niche armor that no one here buys one
???
man here stroke had one

So... Spartan armor is still going to send me my side inserts right? If WWII is starting I'd really like the extra protection.

>>63876280
Are you in israel or Iran?

>>63876280
Looks liks you might be going... spartan

I just bought a set of these for $200+$20S&H
I have a pair of UF PRO Striker HT Pants in Multicam Black, and I really like the vent-zippers on the lap. I plan to modify these OPS Pants with the same air vent design plus add more cargo pockets, and plastic lace-hooks on the drawsting in the hem like the UF PRO. I may add waistband hooks as well.

>>63875741
it hurts bros

>>63876616
nice purse

>>63877304
I was thinking the same thing but decided to be nice.

If we are doing IFAKs can we also aid bags?

I went full retard and ordered a Helikon chest rig and their 2 point sling.

>>63875928
Where did you find specs on the LITE plate?
The original spec had them rated for x54mmR LPS, not M855A1 or x39mm API-BZ, lol.

>>63877928
Armor nerds on reddit are alleging it's an ICW version of the Paraclete 6900X, which is a 4.2lb M855A1 / BZ SRT. Weight roughly tracks with that. 4.2lb or so with soft armor makes it moderately inferior to the standalone LTC 28791, which handles those threats plus 1-2 M80 as per our favorite basement merchant.
Catalyst Surplus is saying III+, which is most likely wrong because that would imply 6x M80, don't think it has the backer for that and regular mil plates never abide by NIJ.
I will also advise the armor nerds might be off. The same guy also alleges an "ISAPI revision E" which is half a pound lighter than the LITE but thicker. ~3.7lb 3x LPS without standoff / BZ API 3x using regular mil soft armor doesn't pass the smell test. Also ISAPI IIRC wasn't procured past ESAPI REV A so I'm not sure how that guy got to REV E.
Where did you get LPS on the LITE? I see Adept is saying that, but that's where they're trying to sell their RF2 plate as superior so I would take them with a grain of salt. Obviously take Apex with a grain of salt on the 28791 too, since they inflated specs in the past.

>>63876616
What is this an IFAK for IT retards?
>allen key set
>a fucking pen
>a flashlight??
>a flash drive
>A bic lighter probably for shrink tube

>>63878995
It's missing the vape and the kush brudda

>>63878997
That thing in the top right is probably the vape.

>>63875894
Any thoughts on this plate? Or Adept plates in general?

>>63879052
>top right is probably
Battery bank.

>>63878995
>IFAK for IT
Openss the door:
>AR IFAK
>MTN BIKE IFAK
>BACKPACK REPAIR IFAK

>>63879200
>gooner ifak

r8 babby first kit. was gonna get assorted more molle mag pouches and misc from amazon

>>63879087
This is a long one. TL;DR they're mystery meat and I'd avoid.

Adept is a company, originally Diamond Age, that has been around for about eight years and during that time has obtained zero NIJ certifications. Their business addresses have ranged from a "Lockout Supplements" at 344 E. Louisiana St. McKinney, TX 75069, back when they were Diamond Age, to the now-removed address from their current site - 4401 S. 72nd E. Ave, Tulsa, OK, 74145, which is shared with a carboline location and a midwest logistics LLC. No known real address.
Adept is owned and operated by an A. Jacob Ganor (aka Jacob Ganor). He originally founded Diamond Age in Canada with a Stephanie Z. Cui.
https://www.canadacompanyregistry.com/companies/diamond-age-corporation/
Ganor has abandoned patents linking him back to Hong Kong.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/bf/16/82/85825fdd2657a5/US20180080741A1.pdf
So why is this all important? Nobody knows where Adept's plates are manufactured, they have no NIJ certifications, and many of their products from back when they were Diamond Age, such as the Bastion M855A1-rated helmet and the N1 sub-5lb multi-hit boron nitride Level IV, turned out to be for the most part vaporware.
Interestingly enough, there was a patent filed a month prior to the Colossus being unveiled that detailed a SiC-TiB2 strike face. https://patents.google.com/patent/CN111348920B. Guess what the Colossus uses?

So now I'll answer your question more directly. Adept sells mystery meat (but quite possibly Chinese material, which isn't a killer IMO but that still raises concerns about quality control - no certs) plates with no certifications that perform well on youtube (affiliates, mind you), but have no known professional users. They use lots of buzzwords to drum up mediocre plates like that Mantis. It is more expensive than an LTC 19513 and is not rated to stop M855A1. It is an UHMWPE plate with a thin titanium strike face so it doesn't get its ass beat by M855.

>>63879259
Going with the multicam black are we? I like your style. I'd review the options in pic related before settling.
Don't buy from Amazon before calculating the cost from dealing more directly on Aliexpress first. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more. Import charges have lightened up and are now being calculated for you.

>>63879259
This is bait.

>>63879400
>I'd review the options in pic related
Can I get eggroll with that?

>>63879423
it's really not
>>63879400
yeah i figured multicam black would be a good blend. crye was my 1st choice but nothing is included with the base carrier, at least the helikon has a cummerbund and front flap

>>63879400
Why is the mighty Warrior DCS not on this list?

i bought a 3 pack of tourniquets, but i've never used one. if i try out one of the tourniquets, should i throw it away or will it still be fine to use?

>>63879362
Making a part 2 to this post. Now I'll switch to arguing partly in favor of Adept so you get a fair assessment. Pic related is a test report they don't list on their site for some reason for the Adept Colossus. This shows defeating 3x 7.62x51 Swiss P AP, the VPAM PM-12 threat above M993 (XSAPI), with a plate that is demonstrably an original white+black Colossus. Note that this version is no longer sold, the current model is purple+black covered.
However, important bit, right at the bottom of this test report is the language that this only applies to the samples tested, and is not an endorsement of continuing performance. Why is this important?

The current test report on Adept's site only lists one hit of 7.62x51mm M993 for the Colossus. This is a far, far easier threat. Why the downgrade?
As I mentioned earlier, the salient issue with Adept is whether they can produce products that perform consistently. Their lack of NIJ certifications, relatively low prices (the Colossus is Militech-level value for what it does), and apparent downgrade on the Colossus' test report from 2/8/22 (ten days before CN111348920B was granted to a Chinese company) to 8/5/22 - current and ONLY one listed on their site - pic related, suggests a lack of consistency. Can we get a test report that isn't nearly three years old, please?
Notably, as to the youtubers, Buffman's plate withstood an incredible amount of ammunition. He has credibility issues stemming from recent Highcom, RMA, and American Blast Systems situations. He has affiliate links with a lot of people. Another guy's, Oxide's, did not. It lost to a singular M993 after being struck by M948 SLAP. There is a third test report out there showing the Colossus stopping one M948 and losing to a second, but this too is not on Adept's site. Why?

To call their Colossus "future-proofed" when it loses to WW2-era 7.92 SmKH (Buff) and has no defeats, at its best, against anything newer than 27-year old Swiss P AP is misleading.

>>63879500
Part 3 and quick correction. Pic related is the 8/5/22 test report actually on Adept's site. The one in part 2 is not on their site and was given by an armor anon who communicated with Ganor about the Colossus a long time ago.

>>63879498
the fuck are you going to try it out on? You know how a tourniquet works right? It squeezes tight until blood can't flow any longer.

>>63879464
You have spoken but did not answer yesterday in /pfg/ if you wanted Militech, Jinwudun, or Yiff Protector-style eggroll. For that, I bring everyone's favorite infographic.

>>63879498
Ignore >>63879537, test it on your neck.

>>63879475
No particular reason. Infographic needs more mid-range options, so it could show up for 1.02.

>>63879547
Antifa medic!

>>63879259
>literally who everything at almost name brand prices
>I'll get the rest on scamazon
>small PC
>multimeme blacked
No. Are you in the US? List out what you want, what you want to do with it, and a budget. Amazon is full of chinkshit double knock-offs. Do not buy medical supplies from God-only-knows-retailers. Multicam Black was meant for cops, it doesn't do anything well as a camo. At least get it in green or brown if you don't want actual camo. You need to size yourself for plates, most people are a medium. You'd have to be turbo twink to really be a small.

>>63879362
>>63879500
>>63879516
Thank you anon, ill steer clear until they get certified. Sad, that titanium armor is cool as hell.

>>63879599
>Amazon is full of chinkshit double knock-offs
Well yeah. I'd review buying from Aliexpress first to avoid paying markups. Idogear, Krydex, DMGear, Tactical Raiders, OrphidianTac Tactileopard (Mutant pouch) are all /pfg/ acceptable. EE Spanker is also well regarded for /pfg/ purposes, as is Militech (but to be fair, they lie about why they have no NIJ certifications so that's not a great start).
I agree 100% on the medical supplies. Rhino boner tactical or whatever TQs risk shitting the bed.
>Multicam Black
Yeah but it looks cool and everyone's dog is going to have a thermal in five years.
>You need to size yourself for plates, most people are a medium. You'd have to be turbo twink to really be a small.
Also agreed. Also decide whether you want SAPI or shooters cut. The former has less sizing shenanigans (esp. with Highcom), the latter is favored by certain carriers. Figure out your plate size, desired protection, then buy a carrier. Keep in mind several plate manufacturers have long lead times right now.

>>63879599
the left side stuff is from 511, i have a gift card for $150 so i wanted to use that. pc and right side is from helikon. i'm a manlet 5'7 160 lbs so yeah a small. in jew york so no plates*

>>63877230
>>>63861036 #
>>>63861054 #
>this is bad advice
>If the water is clear where you are just use aquamira drops, you can scoop water and keep moving while it purifies
>If the water has a lot of particles scoop it up in a smart water or lifewater bottle and screw a sawyer squeeze or platypus quickdraw to the end
>gravity feeds suck, you have to constantly stop and weight when you are moving all day, these things advertise themselves to make it simple because you just weight on it, but they turn out to be an absolute unnecessary chore if you do either of the two recommendations i put above
>t. hiker trash
I more or less agree. I have a MSR gravity feed water blah blah at my cabin cuz we don't have plumbing but we do have rain catchment.
They're good for static locations. Campsites, etc. They aren't good for mobile people. Better to have a Sawyer so you can scoop and filter on the go.

>>63879498
using it can stretch it out. If you use one for training paint it blue, that is the typical training color.

>>63879639
size yourself for plates. I can almost guarantee you are not a small. Get a friend in another state and buy plates or get a chest rig instead.

>>63879602
Glad to help. Unfortunately, the armor industry is extremely shady and Adept / Diamond Age (pic related) is not the first to come out swinging with allegedly revolutionary armor. Ever since the first iteration of the NIJ standard was developed in '71, there have been buzzwords, scandals, and bullshit from a lot of people. Probably at least two dozen companies by this point. Even huge guys like Second Chance have pulled bullshit in the past - Zylon in particular. That got people killed.
Youtubers need to be taken with serious grains of salt. If they have affiliate links, they make money when the armor makes money. Pretty clear conflict of interest.
If something's not on the NIJ CPL and it's not made by a Big Six (Ceradyne - do not trust their GEN III TSA / SPEAR plates though, BAE, formerly owning Protech / Safariland, LTC, Tencate, Hesco, Highcom) then it needs to be treated with caution. Those last two - Hesco and Highcom, still need to be treated with some hesitation. Hesco has had several NIJ suspensions (3410, 3610, 4600, 4400, IIRC) and Highcom pulled nasty bullshit with the 4SAS4 months ago while continuing to pull sizing shenanigans with their undersized, allegedly 10x12" shooters cut. Stick to Hesco's currently certified plates - 4403, 4601, 3810, and you're fine. Stick to Highcom's SAPI-sized .06-certified plates and you're okay.

Long story short, the armor industry is the shadiest gun-adjacent industry probably by a large margin. All claims need to be verified. Do not trust any one singular source, not even the NIJ. Combine all the information available to get the best conclusion. We can give you shortcuts here, but you shouldn't trust the guys here completely either. It's a lot of homework.

But the short list is basically LTC 19513 for III+ - where the Mantis is, Hesco 4403 for IV if you're strapped, REV. J ESAPI + soft armor if you're not strapped, XSAPI + soft armor if you have concerns with tungsten core threats.

>>63875731 (OP)
Armor rumor of the week: American elite units have 1 pound UHMWPE plates.

>>63879666
Satan here is correct. It is exceedingly likely you wear SAPI M or 10x12.
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. The language in New York's armor ban suggests that non-wearable armor like shields are fine. You could have a friend buy you plates in another state for the purposes of jury-rigged mounting to a shield. It's a perfectly valid way to up protection against heavier threats. Lots of people buy plates to put on shields. Definitely. Yeah.

>>63877682
Always good do have access.
During the no kings bullshit my company had me inspect and restock the MCI boxes. I'd also get some triage tape, if you intend to stick around anyway.

>>63879651
>They're good for static locations. Campsites, etc
Depends upon group size. Try pumping 10L.

>>63879730
That's actually not impossible but would require losing weight from already sketchy plates like the 1.7lb Dayton RF1 (this is a shady plate) and the 1.3lb Hesco 3801LV (which is probably advertised wrong by Verretts and is an ICW plate). Can whoever is posing this rumor point to any advances in Dyneema or Spectra Shield that aren't being utilized by the current field of plates?
Interestingly, if this is true and there have been "black-side" advances in PE, that could point to the GEN-6 Tactical Stand Alone being significantly lighter than the projected 4lb (4.85lb for the GEN-5 28595, 4.4lb for the GEN-5B VelSys "N94")... or there could be a GEN-6B out there. Interesting.

>>63879783
I need to get some triage tag, the bag I have has two parts to it. A smaller outer bag, then a larger bag. The smaller bag I’m running as my MARCH kit, the larger bag is going to lean more towards PAWS and prolonged field care.

Afternoon my dudes, what would be some good pouches for BOTH uzi mags and mp5 mags? Both are the 30/32 rd capacity. Not sure if there is a taco equivalent.

>>63879651
The gravity feed is a Sawyer, very easy to detach from gravity bag and attach to smart water or hydro flask when on the move
The gravity bag is more for refilling canteens and bladder whenever you stop to rest
The gravity bags are low weight and roll up small, dumb not to carry one

What would yall recommend here? I have a mixed bag of shit all over the place in terms of multiple magazines and such.
>Option A
A few dedicated chest rigs just for the range. Can be thrown over armor for instagram clout I guess.
>Option B
Carrier with placards. Not sure if this is an exercise in futility and it should just be setup with 5.56 pouches regardless. Potentially interesting option, but I'm iffy on carriers in general. I don't have any immediate use case for plate carriers.
>I'm just a guy with a hobby

>>63880078
This is a retarded question. Both have different applications.

>>63880078
There are chest rigs that can use placards and chest rigs that can be attached to armor. How many mags would you want at a time for the range?

>>63875989
civil war had the most functional gear

>>63879500
I saaw that there's a new "batch" test they posted to instagram from late 2024, 4x Swiss P AP:
> https://www.instagram.com/combatadept/reel/DD2JZ40vCHc
With report: www.ade.pt/ColossusDec2024.pdf

>>63877682
Looks kinda like my PLCE medic side pouch, exept I have a Savotta Trinket pouch in it (just one for now, I'm /poorfag/) and mixed set of car, army and new medical stuff. I even bought a Mil-Sht field surgery set because of the EFT.

>>63880209
DPM KING. Love it.
This is the front bag of my TT First Responder Move On MkII.

>>63880138
Figues, my bad. Seems there's some overlap between the two now. The armor in this case is secondary. I just want something to hold mags for organization purposes.
>>63880161
Yeah, this is the overlap I was thinking about. At least 3, preferably 4. I'm ideally looking for something that will work with as many mags as possible, which makes me think tacos but unsure. We got:
UZI
MP5
AK, 7.62
AK, 5.45,
AR15
Glock 9mm
Beretta 9mm
Desert Eagle .50
Garand clips
Mosin clips
K31 clips
And some others I'm probably forgetting about

>>63880162
Modern is by definition best, as we moderns have access to all of the old stuff, and there's usually a good reason we don't use it as-is.
I will also say that modern-commercial is often better than modern-military as military procurement is retarded.

>>63880239
If armor is secondary, then a chest rig or LBE is your best bet, if your primary concern is holding a bunch of pouches.

>>63880069
Agree with all you said. Another anon.in last thread was talking about having one for mobile innawoods activities.

>>63880247
Any good LBE's out there right now, or is it usually the British web/alice stuff? Part of me wonders if I can get away with a good 5.56 chest rig. I'm sure theres pouch dividers or some way to print them. Might look funky, but like 2 mp5/uzi mags to a 5.56 pouch.

>>63880281
It depends on what you want in an LBE. You can get a taps rig, or a split chest rig, you can go for a belt kit. You're not being very specific on what you're looking for, except "I want pouches".

>>63880281
Marauder SF Airborne webbing is great., though it’s not modular if that’s something you are concerned with. You can get it as a 3 or 4 GP pouch version.

>>63880239
You can probably fit all of those pistol caliber mags in an esstac mp5 placard. They market them as only fitting one type but you can fit others as well. They're just taller pistol mag pouches. I can fit VZ mags in the 5.56 mid height kywis and I've seen people use AK mags in them so you can probably get away with one placard for both of those. Those two placards would covver most of what you have, not sure about the clips, maybe the deagle mags would fit in the ar pouches?

>>63880298
>multicam
>plate carrier
>guns camo painted
>generic civilian AR
>overpowered scope, camouflaged even
>THREE American flags, one bright as shit
what kind of hat and sunglasses combo do you wear with all this soulless shit lmao

>>63880288
Those will give me a start. At this rate, I don't have much as far as specifics and gear really isn't my thing. I'm looking for easy on-easy off, cheap, available, 3-4 mag capacity minimum, maybe an admin pouch or spot to put stuff. Just want something to carry mags really. I have chicom and it's nearly perfect if that serves as reference.
>>63880298
Will check this one out too, much thanks. Reminds me of an evolved Swedish 304 lbe set combined with some smersh elements.

>>63880351
Taps rig if you like the chicom.

>>63880247
>If armor is secondary, then a chest rig or LBE is your best bet, if your primary concern is holding a bunch of pouches
>>63880281
>Any good LBE's out there right now, or is it usually the British web/alice stuff
>>63880288
>You can get a TAPS right or a split chest rig.
My guy, based on the chain I'm pretty sure that anon is looking for belt kit. Bro said LBE and then brought up the British & ALICE shit, which is belt.

>>63880348
You don’t like flags? What are you a commie?

>>63880348
>overpowered scope
Based retard.

>>63880281
USMC padded war belt/Sub Belt is the best bang for buck LBE base you can buy right now. Get better suspenders if you want, but you probably don't need them, they're perfectly fine.

>>63880357
And then he confirmed that he thinks the chicom is nearly perfect. So, good job on not understanding people. You're probably autistic.

>>63880363
anything more than 4x is overpowered and says you can't shoot

>>63880322
Glorious. I was wondering if something like that might work for most. Idea here is most compatibility for the least amount of gear laying around. At least for the uzi mags should work. Pistol stuff probably would too. Deagle can probably get away with the spacer. They might even fit a T79 chicom rig. Will have to test.

>>63880360
>AUG with matching ACOG
>hydration
>flags on velcro panels they're not supposed to be on
maybe you're alright...

>>63880355
I do love chicom. Bless.
>>63880357
>>63880370
honestly that's probably partially me. I don't know what my options are. Just really appreciate the help despite me being vague.
>>63880364
Will look at those too, bless.

>>63880193
Excellent. Thanks!
I however see some discrepancies and the fact that while this is hosted on their site, it's been six months and I do not see it on the Colossus' actual webpage, just the 1x M993 report. Why?
1. If we compare the Dec2024 Colossus to the old 2/8/22 Swiss P AP test, it is apparent that the BFD in the new one is significantly higher. 30.56mm is the lowest, 43.60mm highest, and an N/A (>44mm?). Old 2/8/22 plate's lowest BFD was 22.5mm, highest 37.5mm. Furthermore, the old single-hit M993 test report had a singular BFD of 24.1mm - consistent with the 2/8/22 but not the new one. This isn't good and suggests that either the clay is different or they changed something between the white/black-covered 2022 plates and the newer model. Either difference in clay or the backer performs worse than it used to? Concerning if that's the case and all the youtubers got their plates years ago.
2. The plate apparently changed dimensions, albeit within potentially marginal tolerances. Dec2024 test report plate is 9.75x11.5", weight 6.638lb, weight-wise consistent with the 2/8/22 but not the 9.5x11.5" M993 plate. M993 plate is 6.48lb. Again, marginal tolerances. I think the M948 plate was actually 10x12" but I don't have that one in front of me ATM.
3. This does not reconcile earlier concerns regarding lack of NIJ certification, apparent lack of VPAM certification (2022 test report doesn't count as previously discussed), or manufacturing location / concerns materials are Chinese import since Ganor is demonstrably from Kowloon, HK per his prior patent application.
Overall, good test report, but it only substantiates concerns that there are QC discrepancies and the plates evidentially do not perform consistently. The BFD differences between the Dec2024 and 2/8/22 reports show enough of that.
Adept needs to buckle down, get NIJ certified, and quit pissing time & resources on cute test reports for Instagram. They have no certs. Large batch testing is needed here.

>>63880465
M993 and Swiss P seem to be different on backface. Also the clay is probably different?
> Overall, good test report, but it only substantiates concerns that there are QC discrepancies and the plates evidentially do not perform consistently.
This is really grasping at straws, IMO. I'm not aware of any other plate ever shown to stop 4x Swiss P AP.
> Adept needs to buckle down, get NIJ certified, and quit pissing time & resources on cute test reports for Instagram. They have no certs.
Agree with this.

>>63880355
Seconded. It's pretty good.

>>63880490
>M993 and Swiss P seem to be different on backface.
Not really. If you compare the 2/8/22 and the M993 report they're comparable. Swiss P AP is the harder threat, but that doesn't always mean higher BFD. Take the RMA XRT for example. What has higher BFD, 7.62x51 M80 or 7.62x54 B-32 API? Former is 37mm at minimum, 42mm maximum, latter 35mm. We know which one is the harder threat.
>Also the clay is probably different?
Then that's on Adept if that's the case either way. It's their burden to show the plate performs and that it performs consistently.
>I'm not aware of any other plate ever shown to stop 4x Swiss P AP
The Tencate CX-950 IC probably could if you spaced the shots far enough, but that plate's irrelevant because you can't buy it and it cannot be sourced second hand. it's also a heavier, older ICW design that is inferior.
I'm also not questioning the validity of this test report, I'm merely questioning why the BFD is ~10mm higher than it was three years ago. Could be the clay, could be the backer. I don't like 50/50 coin flips with life-saving equipment. My concern with Adept has always been whether they can make plates consistently given the lack of certifications and questionable mystery meat materials. This is the same hesitation I have with Militech. They both perform great on Youtube (both with mutual affiliate Buffman, humorously), have (sometimes rather old) test reports to back them up, but are afraid of the NIJ for some reason. C'mon, the RF3 test is one steel-core .30-06 M2AP at 2,910ft/s. Should be easy! Especially if they have plenty of plates to test on Instagram and send to youtubers.

Certification is the name of the game here. We also should refrain from glazing Miltech for the same reason. Yes, they perform wonderfully with Buff. However, we seem to generally agree Buff isn't reliable on Highcom and RMA, so it is contradictory to then trust him and other youtubers on Militech. No excuse as to why they aren't certified either.

>>63880573
> Certification is the name of the game here. We also should refrain from glazing Miltech for the same reason.
With the new CPL off until probably mid 2026, that's rough.

>>63880573
>Buff isn't reliable on Highcom and RMA
He kind of was reliable and that's how he ended up getting into trouble. Highcom and others like American Blast failed horribly, and even the Hesco 4800 was a crazy failure. Then the companies get mad at him and force him to pull the videos, lol. As for RMA, everybody saw that the plates Buffman tested were practically a pound heavier than the weights on their website.

>>63880589
True, but Adept had three years to certify their plates. Militech has had since at least 2018. Longfri, Safelife, Stealth Armor Systems, have all gotten plenty of certs in that timeframe and they're all either Chinese or small-time operations. Hesco got a shitload of new models certified in that timeframe due to suspensions, lol.
>>63880608
I agree. He did play a role in exposing the 1189 and 1199 cheat rings to the masses, and it was his test of the 1192 that exposed the RMA ringer problem (10oz overweight plate, lol). However, the 1189 / 1199 problems were known prior to this by people who calculated areal densities and figured, given the materials of the plates and their construction, the given weights were impossible sans-cheat ring. Lightfighter and certain arfcom old heads were already onto them by 2016-2017, not to mention the #1145 and the older, apparently import plates (pre-2013).
>Highcom and others like American Blast
And yet he had to pull the blast plate (which IIRC failed straight up) because of a C&D. That plate is still being sold and is frankly dangerous. Same goes for the "can't drop me, but Buff said my backer's trash too on fnforum!" 4SAS4.
However, Buffman's credibility continues to tank when he makes posts like pic related glazing poor armor and making statements that he knows or should know are false. RMA was not upfront about the cheat rings, he knows that!

For sources as to anyone wondering, see pic related for the 2017 lack of disclosure regarding the 1189 and 1199, among other things. The earlier RMA troubles on arfcom from earlier in the 2010s, including the 1189, are discussed in this thread:
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63678773/

For the threads discussing the Highcom 4SAS4 and other Buffman shenanigans, see below:

THREAD 1:
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/62910354/
THREAD 2:
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/62950094/
THREAD 3:
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/62982073
THREAD 4:
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63009662

>>63880740
Those 4SAS4 threads were so kino.
I'm sad that /k/ didn't gather the pennies needed to buy Highcom.

>>63880370
>You're probably autistic.
Not probably, definitely.

>>63880755
I actually kinda want either Hesco or Point Blank to buy Highcom. Where Hesco seems to be dropping the ball lately, now that their strike faces aren't screwing up in the heat treatment department (which is why they got four suspensions), is that their PE backers aren't as strong as they need to be. Highcom's one innovation in the past twenty years has been their XTClave technology behind the 3S14M and 3S15M, but they're piss afraid of using more advanced strike face materials than basic SiC. Highcom only had one B4C plate in the past 25 years and it was frankly terrible.
Hesco's ceramics and Highcom's backers could be the combination needed to make the 3814, 4801, and 4601 not totally mid and compete evenly with LTC / Tencate.

We got too many small fish in this industry that need to join forces. The stagnation is why things have gone practically nowhere since 2000. And yeah, those Highcom threads were great.

>>63880788
> Point Blank
If they buy Highcom, Highcom stops selling to civilians.
> Hesco
This makes sense.

>>63880806
>If they buy Highcom, Highcom stops selling to civilians
Good! That means nobody is unknowingly running around with dangerous 4SAS4s that could have been compromised in the mail by a few drops and bad packaging by tacticalshit. Remember. Buffman's first plates passed the tap / torque tests. They still failed. You don't know for certain a plate's true condition without x-raying it. This is why $500+ expired Protech 2230s were on sale for like $160 weeks ago, even though they were badass plates new with some claims greatly exceeding even REV. J ESAPI. Ditto for why the old "surplus" Ceradyne D275s were so cheap way back when. 4.2lb B-32 API protection is incredible, better than GEN-5B TSA even, but those plates evidentially don't have a lot of drop foam if they're that light, not to mention the Ceradyne delam issue from about that time...
Highcom offers no products (aside from the mid-as-hell 3S9M - which is undercut slightly both in price and specs by the mediocre Hesco 3814) that lack equivalents from LTC, Hesco, or can be readily substituted by another company.
>Hesco
Only question is if Hesco has the money. LTC, Tencate, Point Blank, all kick Hesco's ass for major contracts. All of Hesco's latest plates, 3802, 3812, 4801, 4601, are heavier than their predecessors (lack of safety margin in the old ones!). For multiple reasons, I dare speculate they can't even make the old plates of theirs from back in the day like the 4520 anymore (pic rel, bottom right).

>>63879949
So, fun fact, EMS used to have triage tags but it was found in events like pulse and LA, people would just poach cards off of people like a literal ticket to the hospital, so now there's a move to triage tape because that can be more easily policed.

>>63880919
You know that’s the first time I have heard that, but it really doesn’t surprise me having worked in EMS and seeing what patients are like. Tape it is.

Good lord, I think I may have found a Highcom plate in the archives even worse than the 4SAS4.

Anyone have the experience to fill this out? Tier 1 would be bare minimum supplies like gauze and disinfectant, tier 2 would be urgent care stuff, tier 3 would be life-threatening emergency stuff. If there's already a good F.A.G. ignore this and just post it thx

>>63881011
Looks like a steel plate, though? I mean, it's no surprise that it's shit.
"Trooper Vests" are /k/ino. That "plate carrier" is clown-tier.

>>63881065
Just run it off MARCH- PAWS/ prolonged care.
Tier 1 should be able to cover MARCH in some shape or form.
Tier 2 PAWS
Tier 3 Ongoing care/evacuation.

Find things that fall within your skill set that meet each of these needs.

>>63881081
Yeah, it's a steel-faced composite allegedly using a rather soft steel - hence the need for IIIA soft armor behind it.
The annoying bit is that with ICW plates, the round is actually allowed to penetrate the plate as long as it stops in the soft armor and resulting BFD is sub-44mm. When the NIJ certifies ICW plates, the plates are tested with a specific soft armor package as specified by the mfg. If you don't use that soft armor or something objectively superior... tough shit. Good news is that this will likely neutralize the fragmentation versus other steel plates (same way the titanium-PE Adept Mantis doesn't have "spall" - because rounds perforate the titanium and are caught in the PE backer), but also means you need to be damn sure your soft armor is up to par. The end result is that you need good, expensive soft armor - likely from Highcom since that's probably what was tested - and that defeats the value for this plate entirely. It's also, with soft armor, probably 8lb flat for a 10x12".
A much better alternative would be the steel-PE composite AMI TAC3S. https://www.armoredmobility.com/productdetail.aspx?pid=65
Standalone, III+, possibly the origin of Gecko45's .338 lapua requirement. Stops M193, M855, even super light varmint 5.56, 7.5lb and I think about $500.
This is obviously non-competitive with the LTC 19513, which is cheaper, lighter, and able to stop M855A1, but it would certainly beat the 19513 on shot spacing against lesser threats.

Remember. In accordance with 0101.06 section 7.6.2, the minimum shot-to-shot distance for fair hits is two inches. If, say, any Level III ceramic is struck by two rounds WITHIN two inches, that is an unfair hit and it is not technically required to stop the second round. That's where the AMI TAC3S made its bones back in 2010 I think, along with some of the older crack arresting ceramics from now-defunct Cercom. The TAC3S is old and has been supplanted by lighter versions. I think the latest is 6.5lb flat.

>>63881065
>Tier 1 would be bare minimum supplies like gauze and disinfectant, tier 2 would be urgent care stuff, tier 3 would be life-threatening emergency stuff.
Why would you organize it like that?
Surely it makes more sense to organize by priority and put life-saving gear in tier 1.

>>63881393
My logic was that tier 1 would be basic, 2 intermediate, 3 advanced, but the other way around makes more sense. 1<2<3 only works if we go by levels

>>63881393
NTA but he's probably doing it in reverse for training reasons. Focus on T1 unless you are trained / capable on T2. So on and so forth.
I think in general use you'll use more bandaids than T3 big boy stuff anyway. He should call them levels though, not tiers.

I'm currently building out my IFAK, what items should I consider adding in aside from spares to what I already have? I already have a tourniquet, ETD, s-rolled gauze, chest seals, shears, and one of those mylar blankets with one side completely bright orange. I am considering a couple glow sticks for signalling, but other than that I dunno if I really need anything else in that pouch. I will say though, I am restrcting it to life-saving items only, so small shit like bandaids and over the counter pills are going in the boo boo kit on my pack instead of the ifak
Speaking of my pack, what medical pouch should I get for this little stretch of molle webbing? I'm already gonna put an IFAK pouch and a tourniquet pouch on that side of the pack, should I just get a pouch for some shears or is there another medical item that would be nice to have easy access to?

>>63881578
god damn it, forgot the picture

>>63881578
Ignore the glowsticks, keep them somewhere else if you want them or if you really need them mount them exterior.

Refer to your MARCH. Do you have something for each section, maybe consider adding an NPA, can’t hurt.

The stuff attached to your pack seems a little unneeded unless you are going to be using it to provide medical aid to others in which case just add multiples of what you already have, though always pull from their IFAK before dipping into your own supplies. Honestly don’t overthink it.

Okay, I'm done collaging. My experience: I've been to the hospital and been treated by corpsmen more than anyone I know. You should be able to fit all of this into your standard IFAK pouch. Don't attempt Level 2 unless trained, don't attempt level 3 period

>>63881887

>>63881910
I think level 3 got cut off man.

>>63881923
You get to lvl 3 and you're dead.

>>63881923
You aren't ready for level 3, no one is

>>63881923
Level 3 is amputation, so that follows.

>>63881910
But honestly I'd love to see someone that knows their shit cross off or rearrange some items

>>63881910
I would say level three should be a nice suture kit. I did combat lifesavers in the Marine Corps, and suturing is easy peasy once you train a bit. Just get a silicone fake skin from amazon, and do it.

Don't worry. The silicone skin can't feel pain.

Being able to stop bleeding in the field is epic, but being able to close the wound in the field is mega based

>>63882013
Aren't adhesive/hook sutures better for scar formation?

>>63881910
this infographic is useless
your arrangement doesnt help anyone

>>63882053
Yes, but they can not be used for deep lacerations, or gunshots. They will not hold up. They are great for shallow cuts.

>>63882013
>>63881910
I went ahead and made an IFAK shortlist.
>Tier 1:
>Gauze roll
>Nitrile gloves
>Fabric bandaids
>Burn dressing
>Israeli Bandage
>Antiseptic
>Splint roll

Tier 1 is all easy peasy stuff that anyone can apply, and good to have on your person when in a dangerous environment, even when just hiking.

>Tier 2:
>CAT TQ
>Vented chest seal
>Bleedstop

Tier 2 requires training as to not make the injury worse. I can go into detail if anyone is interested, but you can not just read about it, Tier 2 requires training.

>Tier 3:
>Suture Kit
>Nasal airway tubes
>Decomp needle

Tier 3 requires advanced medical knowledge, but is certainly doable if you train. You can go from a numb-brain to a suture pro in 6 months if you practice it. Decomp needles are used for a sucking chest wound, and you can easily penetrate a lung if you are not careful.

>>63882091
>this infographic is useless
Almost EVERY infografix in nearly useless, frendolini.

>>63882013
>>63881910
Infographic anon here, this is what I have so far. This area really isn't my wheelhouse so collaboration is very welcome.

>>63882108
Where's the Narcan?

>>63882108
still trash
>>63882111
better

>>63882108
I like your assortment better, I'll move gloves, burn bandages, etc into level 1 on mine.

>>63882121
if you are raiding drug dens it's in your ifak, if not its in medication
level 1 because you cant hurt someone by giving narcan

>>63882121
We don't save druggies around here.

>>63882140
secondary contact is a threat

>>63882136
Will add to Level 1 on mine. This is actually kinda fun, wish I didn't put this one off for so long.

>>63882145
That's not my area of expertise. I did combat lifesavers, I wasn't a cop. I never dealt with druggies.

My thought process in an extreme SHTF scenario is to just treat them like zombies lmao

>>63882140
You might need a ex-druggie gf? You could fix her. She's just a little chipped teacup. If you save her life, she owes you a life.

>>63882169
>an extreme SHTF scenario is to just treat them like zombies
You might have to repopulate the world, so she becomes your baby factory.

>>63882180
Yeah but then her old pimp will kill her and pepper you up with birdshot then you have to go on a revenge spree

>>63882189
I thought this was gear queers, not gear straights.

>>63882193
We are queer for gear
If we gotta suck dick for some lightweight plates or a nice chest rig that doesn't mean we're gay

>>63882091
>this parody image is useless

>>63882208
>If we gotta suck dick for some lightweight plates
Oh so we really are /bag/ now, huh. How much suckage for those 1lb polyethylene plates >>63879730 was talking about, huh?

>>63882231
No not bag, level IV only

>>63882237
Militech, motherfucker!

>>63882108
This is dank, thanks

>>63882111
This is even more dank, thanks, nice trips

>>63882169
>just treat them like zombies
I've been fleshing out a dystopian RPG where this is exactly the case. They're brainless, they just kinda mill about, and can be hostile without provocation

>>63882253
Based. It's crazy that zombies are real, and people just kinda don't care. Druggies are 110% what media portrays zombies to be, except they don't stay like that, and they usually die within a few years.

Alright, how are we looking?

>>63882298
Pretty based, but I would say change the TQ text to say that you need three on your person. Two for two of your own limbs, and one to render aid to another person. A TQ is great, unless you get shot in the leg and an arm. Applying just one TQ with two massive bleeding wounds will just make you bleed out in even more pain.

Four is ideal, but after three you start running out of places to put them.

>>63875731 (OP)
Anyone have a good source on nir compliant materials? I want to try making some of my own kit bit cant seem to find supplies.

>>63882327
All Cordura fabric is NIR compliant. Try here:
>https://rockywoods.com/collections/cordura-nylon

>>63882310
Done! I think this is the real "1.00" version. Incorporated more items from other anons' drafts.

>>63882342
Pretty good selection thanks anon.

>>63882342
Also didn't know all cordura was nir.

>>63882208
gobble gobble

>>63882409
Technically not all, since they also manufacture denim, but all of their 500D, and 1000D nylon fabric is. It meets or exceeds MIL-DTL-32439B standards.

Here is a PDF of all MIL-DTL-32439B standards:
>https://camofabricdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/MIL-DTL-32439B.pdf

>63879748
Welcome back predator steel plates guy. You replace those steel plates yet?
This is an old vest but looks to be in decent / easily-mendable shape. I found the listing, $175. He has several sizes available (large, medium, XL). I don't know your sizing, but the Safariland Group has a calculator.
https://www.bodyarmorsizing.com/
I see our guy here has TAP Gammas and Protech 2014Gs for sale with a shipping discount. I would avoid the Gammas (they had a delamination issue about 10-12 years ago which was later fixed with the Sigmas). Protech 2014Gs are an antiquated but .06 plate that per pic related only do the bare minimum 1x M2AP at 2,910ft/s for Level IV. I'd save for 4403s if you haven't already gotten better plates.

>>63882145
No it isn't, cops say that because they don;t want to admit to having a panic attack.

>>63882108
Put NPAs into tier 2, they're dead easy.

>>63882605
Dead easy to install, but no one knows that the patient has to be in a head back recovery position with your hands under their jaw, pulling backwards so they can breathe.

It requires training to not feel like you are helping, and accidentally kill the patient.

>>63882636
That may sound confusing. You are typically kneeling above the head of the patient as they are flat on the ground. You install the NPA tube with the provided lubricant down the nasal passageway and twist it into position. You then hold their neck backwards gently, and pulls slightly against their jaw so their head stays back in a flat recovery position until you are ready to move the patient. Your hands should be under their chin as you apply gentle pressure to keep their head back, especially if they are slightly conscious as they will try to fight to breathe.

This position opens the airway, since the only reason you use an NPA tube is if the airway is damaged or closed.

>>63882190
Sure. But by then, you'll both be truma bonded and you'll get her on your insurance and have her meth mouth teeth pulled out telling her that after the collapse, no teeth to go bad without a dentist is actually a survival +1, and until then you're getting gummies.

>>63882193
You can still be queer.
>>63882208
Sorry, you're full gay.

It happened again, I had another dream of the 2030 /gq/ meta but it got even worse, must have had too much Benadryl.
>After a series of groomed-by-the-FBI-looking asses figure out that kamikaze drone attacks are the new thing, drones are banned nationwide - especially assault drones that weigh more than 30oz.
>To circumvent this, Chinese companies fly in drones over the Canadian border using much larger drones holding shipping containers.
>Drone F-55 fighters intercept the drones, but stop doing so after they accidentally shoot down three Amazon blimps over Detroit.
>The resulting battery fires raze the entire city, and the fumes from everyone's e-scooters catching on fire spontaneously exploding turns the whole city into a no-go zone.
>With the city-wide surveillance network destroyed and the whole city condemned, it turns into a real-life Tarkov except with MORE guns.
>The New Russian Republic ships in 10k rounds of 7N37, merking everybody's plates.
>Anons get jobs by raiding buildings for copper wiring and anything they can recover. Chips, bitcoin wallets hidden on hard drives, exotic weed strains kept in underground vaults.
>It's tough, but an honest living.
>Based 3d printing men develop a modernized KS-23 loaded with tungsten carbide 00 buck to destroy black market kamikaze / recon drones.
>Lot of nasty toys in this party.
>LIBAanon perfects his craft and sells LIBA plates commercially - even shields.
>His shields become highly prized for their ability to withstand numerous .338 lapua and defend the mayor's nephew.
>Yeah there's still a mayor, it changes weekly depending on who got the biggest haul of copper wiring and crack.
>Anons set up safehouses using UL 752 level 10 rated fiberglass and melted down AR500 plates forged into much larger plates from the great "fuck steel!" happening of 2027, which was like a mini-boog in WV where all the fudds shot themselves in the plates with nas3-cased M193.
>It's a hard lyfe, but it's honest. Lot of juno reactor.

>>63875741
dont get a decomp needle if you dont know how to (are formally trained and ideally licensed in your area) use it.

>t. nationally registered paramedic and SAR team paramedic.

>>63883001
above the 3rd rib a couple inches from the sternum or above the 5th rib under the armpit
if a guys lung is collapsing and your still hours from evac/rescue its worth taking a stab at
also your ifak exists to be used on you not to use on others so you should include everything a trained person might need

>>63883051
that isnt even preferred sites anymore lmao. Its your funeral but even within EMS the majority of needle decompressions arent needed. Do you know the difference between a tension pneumo and a normal pneumo? because you arent supposed to decompress just any random pneumo.

>>63883084
>that isnt even preferred sites anymore lmao
but they are viable sites right? humans haven't all mutated since then?
>tension pneumo and a normal pneumo
in the field, mostly severity, tension is going to keep getting worse until they cant breath and I wouldnt be shanking people in the chest until it was severe

This is no longer sad. This entire general is no longer sad. Comfy discussion. It's good, just getting started. We can do more. It's not over for us. Bunkbed guy left us, but we will fight on in his stead. We have more fight. More will.

IFAK gas mask kino remains. And juno reactor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBgQuH4xPmA

>>63879602
Yeah, because you definitely need NIJ cert plates for putting on your carrier for a few minutes in front of the mirror while your parents go to the grocery store.

>>63875731 (OP)
Other than tourniquets and clotting gauze, what else do you need in a trauma kit?

>>63883248
Do you plan to treat anything other than bleeding?

>>63883248
There's an infograph for that now, see>>63882373.

>>63883248
Just get one of the Rescue Essentials Stop the Bleed or LE IFAK refill packs. The StB packs are $60ish and the IFAK refills are $70 and I clued a few more things like chest seals. Most of the price is towards the TQ which you have the option of a SOF-T or a CAT. They're all legit too. I priced everything out and it's only like $10 cheaper at most to get everything piecemeal. The kits are well worth it imo. They have different levels of Stop the Bleed kits too if you want to go that route.

>>63883001
I just watched the new mission impossible so I think I know what I'm doing, okay?

>>63882676
I'm familiar with the head tilt chin lift, which is unnecessary with the use of an NPA as it's the adjuct bypassing the soft tissue allowing airflow.

>>63881627
Good idea on the NPA, that would probably be a good idea. I will still probably throw in a glow stick or 2 if they'll fit, but it won't be something I prioritize much
I mainly want the booboo kit on my pack so I can have basic medical aid that I don't have to dig around a pack for, and the tourniquet is just to keep another spare of something I like have spares of. Keep in mind, this is more of a solo hiking/camping pack setup as opposed to a more sleep high speed setup

Here's pretty much the final version of my ALICE LBE, all I need to do is finish filling out the ifak and it'll be complete
My next project is filling out a USMC padded sub belt so I'll have something a tad more modern and eventually something to pair with a plate carrier

>>63883576
now dye/paint it

>>63882111
>Gauze
Your gauze section is fucked up.
1. NAR Wound-Packing Gauze is NOT kaolin-impregnated.
2. It makes no sense to include Celox Rapid under 'Z-Folded Gauze' but have QuikClot and NAR Wound-Packing Gauze separate. They are all Z-folded gauze.
It would be more appropriate to divide them into 'packing gauze (z-fold or rolls)' and 'hemostatic packing gauze' then list Celox Rapid, Quikclot Combat Gauze and Chitogauze as options under that. The differences between any of the brands are equivocal. Frankly, the difference between hemostatic gauze and the plain stuff isn't all that much either, what really matters is how well you apply pressure to it.

>Tourniquets
CAT and SOFTT are both fine. No reason to list one but not the other.

>Burnshield and Burn Spray
Both are trash compared to copious amounts of cool running water. They're reasonable to include in a kit because you won't always have access to a tap or stream, but please include a note making it clear that they are the backup rather than the gold standard.

>Cleaning wounds
If you're including peroxide spray, eye wash and antiseptic liquid then you should include a 50cc syringe. Beats all of those when it comes to cleaning a wound. Just squirt it clean. Tap water is fine.

>Trauma shears
Should be in level 1. You can't pack a wound if you can't see it.

>PEPTIC ULCERS
You've been memed, bro. Yes, ibuprofen can cause stomach irritation and ulcers. No, Ace+Ibu is not any more likely to cause them than ibuprofen alone. Peptic ulcers doesn't need to be bolded and underlined, and you definitely don't need to put a red cross over the container.

>>63875731 (OP)
Thats the worst ifak i've seen in a long time lmao
>that shitty strap cutter thing
Seriously, dont. Seen people play Rescue Randy and rip entire thighs open with those. Buy a pair of $10 NAR shears.
>chest seals, unvented at that
Kek, actual scam. You shouldn't even be able to buy a chest seal without certs, you're going to kill someone that was 100% fine otherwise
>rolled up gloves
Don't
>singular packet of memegauze
Kekking

Is this from GBRS or some shit? Please tell me its from GBRS.

Pill packs can be useful, mine contains:

Loratadine (antihistamine)
Diphenhydramine (antihistamine/sedative)
Ibuprofen (NSAID)
Acetaminophen (Pain)
Loperamide (diarrhoea relief)
Calcium Carbonate (antacid)
Aspirin (nsaid)
Bisacodyl (constipation relief)
Motion sickness/ nausea
Phenylephrine (congestion/sickness)

>>63884088
You're unironically missing doxycycline and I'm not joking or memeing.

>>63884075
Lemme make you an ifak thats not retarded and wont cost you $300 for a crock of shit. Go buy:
>4 packs of compressed gauze or kerlix (any brand, they all come from the same chink factory)
>2 elastic wraps of some sort, ACE wrap essentially
>bout 10ft of 3M silver tape, roll it onto a straw or credit card
>2 pairs of random nitrile gloves in white or blue
>two of whatever non-junk tq you can find (personally I like the RevMedx one the best). Personal opinion on CAT and SAM XT is that they're ass, but they work.
>some large shears (fuck off with the mini shears meme), i.e. NAR trauma shears (Rhino Rescue shears are really fucking good for the money too, honestly)
>couple combine pads (way bigger chance you'll use these than anything else)
>SAM split (or chink knockoff, theyre all the same.shit). Make it fit somewhere, you'll need it more often than the other ahit

You dont need anything else.

>>63882108
P.S. this guy is a retard dont listen

>>63883484
Ah ok, if you are solo then maybe ignore the NPA. It’s highly unlikely you’d be applying it to yourself, it’s more for maintaining the airway.

Focus on being able to stop the bleeding and keeping moving. Gauze, TQ, chest seal, shears, emergency blanket. Maybe throw in some ACE wrap and a Sam splint or something similar.

>>63884143
And a list of things to avoid wasting money on:
>chest seals
You will never use one. 12 years on ambulance, 0 sucking chest wounds seen. A 9mm will not produce one. If you put a chest seal on my patient I will call you a retard because I now have to remove it to assess.
>NPA
full retard if you arent ventilating (you arent cause your IFAK has no BVM)
>needles of any sort
Fuck off
>meme "battle jew pressure dressing" or whatever, ACE wrap is better in every aspect
>"talon gloves", "bearclaw gloves" and whatever the fuck else. They're all trash, way too thick and way too loose. Normal blue nitriles, double up if needed.
>combat frog nuts tape or whatever
Useless garbage, way too sticky. 3M silver tape.
>not 100% against it but hemostatic gauze
Unless you know youre dealing with people with clotting issues...nah. Regular gauze works the same.

>>63883869
>now dye/paint it
ALICE is fine.

>>63884210
>3M silver tape
>search results: weatherproof aluminum foil tape
Really?

>>63884409
Personally I like the 3m Durapore tape.

>>63884075
>Thats the worst ifak i've seen in a long time lmao
It's a North American Rescue SIRK ifak refill in a pouch
>Rip entire thighs open with those
How? You would have to catch the open wound and someone dumb enough to do that probably can't be trusted with shears either
>You shouldn't even be able to buy a chest seal without certs, you're going to kill someone
Wut?

Why are emt fags so high on their own farts?

>>63884423
>3m Durapore tape
I have that in generic and the 3M silver tape search results were completely different.

>>63884189
>Nippon flag
heh

>>63884565
>You would have to catch the open wound
Exactly what happened. The guy that did it was a trauma doc so no, not someone that can't be "trusted with shears". It's a seatbelt cutter, not a replacement for shears.
>Wut?
If I need to explain how sucking chest wounds work and what covering them up without being able to tell early signs of a tension pneumo developing can cause there is really no point in having this debate with you. Suffice to say studies show chest seals do more harm than good and that people way, way, way above both our scope of practice are against them even being allowed as an intervention anymore.
>Why are emt fags so high on their own farts?
I am a paramedic, not an EMT.

>>63884703 I am a paramedic, not an EMT.
Even worse.

>>63884703
How's the experience with vented chest seals?

>>63884745
All vents clog up eventually. My point is that most (99%) of injuries to the plural space will not be anywhere near a sucking chest wound (the hole needs to be bigger than the trachea for that to happen since air takes the path of least resistance) and thus covering it up runs the risk of inducing a tension pneumo on a patient that would have had 0 complications on his way to surgery if you just covered the hole with gauze and left it alone. In a scenario where EMS is <30 minutes away (i.e. reality), chest seals are not a necessary intervention whatsoever and carrying them is a LARP. At best, you gave the paramedic an annoying piece of sticky shit to remove when they begin patient assessment and at worst gave someone a pneumo.

>>63884734
Listen, if you want to buy a new pair of $30 bullshit every year (even less depending on your location, the adhesive in chest seals becomes either so sticky you can't separate it from the plastic backer anymore or not sticky enough to adhere properly very, very quickly - way before the listed expiration), go ahead. I'm can't and wont stop you. I'm just saying you're throwing money away when you could be putting it towards something more useful.

>>63884770
We are all larp here
My ifak is set up with the thought that it could be hours until the patient gets to a hospital whether that's because innawoods or unfriendly territory
I want to seal a sucking chest wound, monitor for tension pneumo and use a decomp needle if necessary

>>63884794
>We are all larp here
Everything is larp until it isn't.

>>63884825
NTA but until then... you're a larper

>>63884884
Yeah no shit. Until LARP isn't LARP it's LARP.

>>63884884
So be it

>>63884884
And there's nothing wrong with that. Only welfare queens in the military get all hot and bothered about civilians owning gear.

>>63884912
You will never use your IFAK, your plates will never be compromised, and you probably won't need to carry a load around in the same place you're shooting unless you're a hunter

>>63885004
There is nothing wrong with it, but he sounds like some kind of prepper dork that actually thinks our dream SHTF scenario will ever come true

>>63885031
And you sound like some kind of jealous ex girlfriend who can't get over the fact that her boyfriend breathed the same air as a girl prettier than you. Get over it you fucking dweeb.

>>63885031
>You will never use your IFAK, your plates will never be compromised, and you probably won't need to carry a load around in the same place you're shooting unless you're a hunter
I would rather be prepared and not need it than be unprepared and need it.

Reminder everytime some faggot EMT shows up its always
>ive never used X against handgun wounds and stubbed toes
>my ambulance company doesnt let me
>you are all too stupid to have any medical equipment
>definitive care > cuf (because I am an instrument of definitive care)
>your ifak should have nothing in it because youre too stupid
>[no mention of obtaining training]
>[no mention of practice]
These people are beyond useless. Do NOT give them the time of day.

>>63885061
You're fat, take yourself too seriously, have anger issues, and so far haven't showered today :^)

>>63882111
Fuck you faggot retard.

Paracetamol-ibuprofen combination tablets are retarded and inappropriate unless you’re taking the maximum dose of both. Buy both drugs separately.
>>63884210
>t. works in the middle of bumfuck nowhere and treats 1 patient per week in his town of 70 people

>>63885031
If I never use my IFAK, or have to pull anything from my aid bag. If my plates never get compromised, then I will have lived a good life.

I have been in the unfortunate situation though where I needed kit and did not have it and believe me it was not a fun place to be.

>>63885068
Just accept the fact that it's all for the fun of collecting or showing off your creativity/money/taste

>>63884794
Guy you replied to here
>decomp needle
See, this is where you lost me lmao. Needle d's are so dangerous we are moving to inflight finger thoracostomies over using one and you're telling me you're going to stick a needle into someones chest with (presumed) minimal training. A procedure that trained paramedics mess up. See why i'm like "yeah maybe random dudes on the range shouldn't be carrying these things around"?

>>63885077
This is all projection right?

>>63885075
>faggot EMT
To be fair to me (the guy that said chest seals are dangerous), I never said any of those things and don't do the whole "get some trainng bruh" bit because I kinda assume people are smart enough to know thats a good idea on their own.

>>63884703
>Suffice to say studies show chest seals do more harm than good
Cite 3.

For real, I'm not being facetious. I'm well aware of the theoretical risks of applying chest seals if you don't know how to recognise a tptx but as far I'm aware, there ain't a single study backing that up either in a lab or on the street.

>>63884770
>most (99%) of injuries to the plural space will not be anywhere near a sucking chest wound (the hole needs to be bigger than the trachea for that to happen since air takes the path of least resistance)
That's boomer lore and you even got the boomer lore wrong. The traditional wisdom has always been that a wound has to be 2/3 the size of the trachea to be worth seal but that doesn't matter because it's BS, air doesn't suddenly switch from the trachea to the hole when it reaches some magic size - it's a continuous process from the moment a hole appears.

>a scenario where EMS is <30 minutes away (i.e. reality),
People carry FAKs when they go hiking and in natural disasters where EMS can be well over 30 min away.

>>63885096
I have an exaggerated image of a fat flyover state tryhard chud that I can't get rid of and get excited if I even vaguely suspect someone fits the bill

>>63885086
>showing off
Nice projection. Don't know why you're upset that people are training. You should be encouraging it.

>>63885075
>[no mention of obtaining training]
>[no mention of practice]
See the thing is we both know you’ll never actually get ‘training’ like you’re implying or actually work in the medical field to get any practice. You’re a larper masturbating to a fantasy of using the toys you bought in some imaginary gun battle, and you get butthurt when the actual adults in the room who do this shit for real tell you that you’re wrong and a faggot. You can argue with me all you like but your opinion is worthless because you don’t have the fancy piece of paper that I have. It genuinely requires a literal toddler-level intellect to become a EMT-P you can’t even do that. You’re retarded and suck nigger cock

>>63885121
It makes you sound like someone who gets upset looking in the mirror.

>>63885127
Congratulations on recently learning how to use the word "projection" in the context of criticizing someone

>>63885105
>the guy that said chest seals are dangerous
You're gay
>>63885130
This is the exact post I was talking about lmao

>>63885141
>in the context of criticizing someone
You being mad isn't criticism lmao. Take a xanax, kid. Maybe it will help you be less of a cunt about people wanting to have medical supplies in case of emergency.

>>63885105
>don't do the whole "get some trainng bruh" bit because I kinda assume people are smart enough to know thats a good idea on their own.
You either are trained in emergency medicine and actively work in the field, or you’re a faggot poser.

No one becomes a 737 pilot ‘just in case’ they’re on a commercial flight and both pilot and copilot die and they have to land the plane like in the movies.

>>63885091
>we are moving to inflight finger thoracostomies
>inflight
Retrievalist aka taxi driver detected.
You do less than anaesthetists.

>>63885199
>You can only be a dipshit or a 737 pilot
>There is no plane between these two, only false dichotomy
The med community attitude issues.
Lord forbid anyone ITT build a basic patient assessment system based around their skills or lackthere of.

>>63885081
>all this shit
Can I even get an aspirin?

>>63885272
I got you boo.

>>63885121
Man, that acting like a jealous ex girlfriend comment really cut deep didn't it?

>>63885250
The faggots itt only want to train for gsw/trauma they’ll statistically never see in their lifetimes while ignoring all the gen med shit they might actually use if they worked the job. It’s like a 15 year old saying he doesn’t want to get his license he only wants to drive competitive F1

>>63885287
Why did you take them out of the packet you dumb fuck? If the lid pops open your pills will go everywhere and if your bag gets wet your pills are useless.

>>63885336
You suck so much dick you can RSI yourself with a dragon dildo

>>63885353
Because I wanted to, plus this box will go into another small waterproof pack. It helps to keep everything in a single concise location. Also if I'm in a situation where I’m pulling out this packet it’s going to be pretty calm. I can always buy more.

>>63885375
Lmao, you're trying too hard zoomer

>>63885343
So sell them on a holistic approach to knowledge, rather than calling chest seals "dangerous". They are literally too stupid to comprehend why it could cause secondary complications. These people are never going to be medical professionals, the best you can do is encourage them to be useful idiots. Imagine how much nicer having a half dozen guys who can throw a pt on a litter for you vs flipping and loading fat people yourself.

>>63885336
Nothing you've posted has been good enough to rile me up, but not replying is the best way to rustle up your jimmies some more :^)

>>63883869
And ruin perfectly good OD green gear? Honestly, maybe, I just don't know how I'd change it without making it look like shit, and I already don't mind how it looks currently over most camo patterns
>>63884189
Good call, I might eventually pick up an NPA and take a class on how to use it so I can pack one in case of any kind of emergency scenario where I would probably be in the company of family or friends.
I kinda figured I'd end up with a pure bleed kit, guess it makes it simpler which is nice. Good idea on the ace wrap and sam splint, sprains and fractures are probably something I'm gonna eventually end up dealing with given my environment. Though honestly I might throw those in the light aid/boo boo kit so theres less shit to confuse when I'm bleeding profusely. I'm thinking of getting a couple cravat dressings too if I can fit em, specifically the 100% cotton ones. I already keep a fair bit of cotton items in my pack for utility, but with cravats being viable as bandages and securing compress dressings i feel like I might pick some up, probably won't go in the main bleed pouch but it'll still be handy

>>63885423
You just replied retard

>>63885499
fuck

>>63884133
Just get a FAST1 Intraosseous infusion system so you can immediately give Meropenem as soon as you scrape your elbow. Just punch it straight into your sternum and start pushing max dose carbapenems.

>>63883869
This book said, that painted webgear rots.

I love these gear lists on the book.

>>63885488
I mean for you it really should be tailored for hiking and mountains. Bleeding control, staying hydrated, not shitting yourself, being able to keep moving after sustaining an injury. Cravats are a solid shout and incredibly versatile, practice tying one with one hand. I know some SAR guys even carry something like the Garmin Mini 2 (the one with the distress beacon) in their IFAK when in the mountains. Their logic being that if they are having to break into this kit they are in a pretty dire situation. Just food for thought.

How am I supposed to choose one of these over the others?

>>63885615
You think about what it is you want to carry and then set it up according to that.

>>63885621
>M1911 or M9
>A1 style AR15, A2 Style AR15, M1A, M1 Garand, M1903
Goddamn it I want to carry it all

>>63885608
>>63885591
Fantastic book, have a copy and the layout photos are so good for the time period.

>>63885199
> You either are trained in emergency medicine and actively work in the field, or you’re a faggot poser.
The problem is paramedic and EMT training is vocational rather than general. This means they're trained to function as a small part of a larger system by performing specific well-defined tasks when certain conditions are met. They're only taught the minimum necessary to perform the skill, and they're not trained to understand anything outside of their specific niche in the overall system. The anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, and pathology training they receive is just a tiny slice of the whole picture. But they don't know that, so they mistake their specialized technical training for a general medical education and double down on stupid whenever the opportunity arises. EMS training is not worthless, but take away the ambulance and the ED and it's a whole lot less useful than people realize.

>>63885250
>Lord forbid anyone ITT build a basic patient assessment system based around their skills or lackthere of.
I used to post info from time to time, but got tired of the constant shitstorming from "trained experts" as is on display in this thread. Check out "The Survival Medicine Handbook" and "Where There Is No Doctor".

t. oldfag M.D.

>>63885697
>EMS training is not worthless, but take away the ambulance and the ED and it's a whole lot less useful than people realize.
This is why I talk so much shit on them ITT
>Check out "The Survival Medicine Handbook" and "Where There Is No Doctor".
WFR classes > EMT classes

>>63885091
This shit isn't forbidden knowledge and it has been common practice for a long time
There are better ways to do things now? That's great, can you teach a grunt to do it?
If not, it's useless in a situation where an ambulance can't get to you
I'm not going to start doing unnecessary things when I can just call 911 and have first responders there in 10 minutes
I'm expanding knowledge and capabilities for when I can't

>>63885199
>No one becomes a 737 pilot ‘just in case’ they’re on a commercial flight and both pilot and copilot die and they have to land the plane like in the movies.
I've played a lot of flight sims, I could do it

>>63885343
We are on fucking /k/
We aren't Lefty's pretending to be medics at a mostly peacefully protest
We are larping as survivors or war fighters at the end of the world, gunshots lacerations and explosions are the main concerns.
EMTs spend 95% of the time just dealing with dying old people, I don't care about them or any general medical issues, I care about the battlefield shit

>>63885734
Based. I have too but I have a feeling that I would have trouble because the airplanes yoke iisn't exactly like my shitty $130 HOTAS.

>>63885586
> t. least psychotic EMT

>>63885660
I find it funny, that during the cold war many NATO soldiers bought/traded for US ALICE pouches, when their own issue pouches weren't enough. ALICE was peak web gear back then.

>>63885343
I actually have to receive standard first aid training and certification as part of my job. Nothing too outrageous, but they do teach you how to apply a TQ properly, and in the years since I started, added how to treat GSWs. They also started doing active shooter drills around this time, so I assume they taught us that shit in case some schizo decides to come in and shoot up the place.

>>63885781
Sounds like you work at an American middle school.
Get that training, bro. Don't mind the seething EMTs.

>>63885766
Fuck you man EMTs save lives…

>>63885784
No, just at a federal facility. I guess technically I'm a fed based on my employment.

>>63885769
Nah itll be fine, still back and forth for pitch you just turn for roll
Yaw would be a bit odd because I don't have pedals but no big deal

>>63885080
>does not see the clear red X and PEPTIC ULCER warning on the combo tablets
This man did not deploy the garrison

>>63883909
Good shit, I'll use this to revise for the 1.01 version.

I understand wanting to try and save some money but why make an infographic for first aid kits or ifaks? Literally just go to north american rescue and pick whichever one you like. Either buy it from them or piece it together using their kit as a template. Problem solved.

>>63885775
>cold war
>ALICE was peak web gear back then
>back then
Yeah, about that...

>>63887243
NAR kit with a Coyote Tactical stomp or burrito, done

>>63887243
>piece it together
I just made an IFAK from Dollar Tree for a friend of mine. Added flyswatters for field operations.

>>63887243
The idea is twofold. Phase one is listing the components of an IFAK. That needs some revising but is mostly complete. Phase two is "templates" - IFAK examples from this thread and premade IFAKs sold commercially. Planning to address both in the 1.01 version.
My "big plan" is that when all the infographics are complete and stable I'll upload them all to an image gallery, make a "catalog" master infographic, and relent from spamming the threads with ten infographics. Instead, just the catalog and the link.

>>63882111
separate IFAK and boo-boo kit stuff. Thank you for continuing the infographics I started years ago.

>>63884734
EMT's are barely above first responder training that they give to normies. My EMT class was the worst training experience of my life, all to get to "provide oxygen and transport" for most cases while completely blowing through trauma care.

>>63887364
Good idea, and glad to be of service. You made the OG vests / ifak / belts?

>>63887403
yeah. The core stuff hasn't changed much.

>>63887481
Really hasn't, although things like thermals, armor, LAMs move a lot faster. The fundamentals have more inertia.

Is there anything else like the Camelback Mule (molle tactical or whatever) or Filbe Hydration carrier? I want a small pack like half the size of a rush 12 for shorter things. If I have to pay like $50 for a new Filbe or used MULE I figure I might as well see what else is around that price range or surplus.

>>63887364
>while completely blowing through trauma care.
That's because you can't actually do anything for trauma except control bleeding and drive fast. Even in places where paramedics can RSI and give blood and TXA, the single biggest predictor of patient outcomes is still how quickly they get to the hospital. This is true even in places that have doctors in the field. There are some comparative studies that suggest BLS providers are actually better at major trauma because they don't delay transport to dick around with all their interventions. The only treatment for major trauma is a trauma surgeon in a fully-equipped operating room followed by a fully-equipped ICU. Everything else is just buying a little more time.

how do you guys feel about the cheap hesco 3611s that are now being sold off as surplus for cheap

>>63887963
Hey /o/, i just bought a motorcycle, what's a cheap helmet?

>>63887963
2020s version of the TAP Gamma deals from the early 2010s. Plot twist, that plate had problems. Rectified problems, but problems nonetheless. Shortcuts come with a price in this department. The 3611 is itself fine but you don't know how they were stored and if there's a reason why someone needs them gone quick.

>>63884703
>I am a paramedic, not an EMT.
>EMT-P

>>63887364
EMS is very field based. If you're not working you're not practicing.

>>63885075
You sound like a volly that was made to look like an idiot by the commercial EMTs that do the real work.

>>63885250
>Lord forbid anyone ITT build a basic patient assessment system based around their skills or lackthere of.
Damn, that's pretty hard to do without a lot of practice.

>>63884088
>Phenylephrine
Replace with actual pseudoephedrine, phenylephrine doesn't actually do anything (like, the FDA is now pushing to remove it from shelves because it doesn't work and is a scam)

>>63885766
More like 65%, the other 30% is "I frowd up".

Are you supposed to untie the bungee cords on mag pouches?
I cant figure out how to get the mag in

>>63885770
I want to argue, but I was partying with coworkers and asked one of the ambiguously brown ones what "an appropriate slur for his people" was while 2 people practiced IVs on me.

>>63888854
Nevermind I figured it out

>>63888854
The bungee cord is there to secure your magazine IN the pouch. You move it to the side to pull your magazine out and you're right when you try to re-index the mag the bungee then gets in the way. Throw whatever shit pouch you have in the trash and get Esstac Kywis.

>>63884703
>Suffice to say studies show chest seals do more harm than good
Oh boy, retard read an EMS1 article. Chest seals are fine.
>>63884770
>runs the risk of inducing a tension pneumo
That's what needle Ds are for.

Why are you removing anything that isn't causing direct harm?

>>63888865
I thought it was there for shipping or something
I am retarded, maybe

>>63888874
Proud of you, bud.

Get

>>63888881
Damn it

>>63888884
Try again?

>>63888877
Oh also I bought a sling (?) and I thought it was a sling that goes on both ends of the rifle but it looks like the sling I used to use on my saxophone and appears to only attach to one point. How do I use it?

>>63888909
Also for your entertainment I cut my thumb putting the sights on.
My AR is making me legitimately retarded. I have never had this much trouble with systems this simple.

>>63888909
That might be what they call a single point sling. It kind of is like the slings you used for sax, it usually fixes near the rear of the firearms so it could hang relatively neutral but be ready to be brought to action. Look up some pics on google.

>>63888922
It's a lot to process.

>>63888940
Thanks. My rifle didnt have the part to attach it so I think Im just going to put it in one of the holes at the end.

>>63885697
You’ve been BTFO every time you’ve posted in the past because you’re a fucking GP, you’ve admitted it before. Literally all you do is write scripts for minor ailments and call the ambulance to pick up anything which can’t be treated with Paracetamol or POABs. Best case scenario is you did a 6 week rotation in Emergency as an Intern 20 years ago and haven’t set foot in a hospital since. You chose the single most brainlet career that’s possible with a medical degree, and your opinion is fucking worthless. The biggest trauma you’ve ever seen in your whole life is probably someone falling over in your little surgery.

>>63888956
>didnt have the par
You can get the right part and install.it, you know. It's like turning screws complicated.

>>63888855
>I was partying with coworkers and asked one of the ambiguously brown ones what "an appropriate slur for his people" was while 2 people practiced IVs on me.
This does sound like a party. Also, get is wintessed.

>>63888834
>basic patient assessment system
>look at bleeding loser
>never liked that guy
>yup, your fucked
Assessment completed

>>63888819
>If you're not working you're not practicing.
Even when you are working, you're practicing. Funny.

>>63885697
>The problem is paramedic and EMT training is vocational rather than general. This means they're trained to function as a small part of a larger system by performing specific well-defined tasks when certain conditions are met. They're only taught the minimum necessary to perform the skill, and they're not trained to understand anything outside of their specific niche in the overall system. The anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, and pathology training they receive is just a tiny slice of the whole picture. But they don't know that, so they mistake their specialized technical training for a general medical education and double down on stupid whenever the opportunity arises. EMS training is not worthless, but take away the ambulance and the ED and it's a whole lot less useful than people realize.
I hate to say that this aligns with anecdotal evidence from trustworthy folks I know of, however I'll give the caveat that those folks are in a rural area. From what I have seen of my local EMS services they have a higher degree of emergency medical competency than you've described but none of what I have seen is recent.
>Inb4 rabid anon attacks me for daring to back up oldfag md

>>63885614
Fair, I think I got that pretty much covered with what I have/plan to get. Honestly if anything I'm just gonna finish off my light aid kit and get multiples of my bleed kit components. Interesting idea with the garmin mini 2, there would need to be a little planning and setup beforehand but honestly a pretty novel idea

I hope.next thread will be more than bickering about bandaides. Not one single fag itt will ever be shot.

>>63885615
>How am I supposed to choose
Upper left is for Garand larp. The other 3 for AR larp or hiking larp, maybe.

>>63890051
I hope next thread will be more than bickering about fire extinguishers. Not one single fag itt will have their house catch on fire.

>>63890051
>Shot
Chainsaw'd? Car crash'd? Forklift'd? Many such cases.
Learn first aid and get the shit to do it. It's not just about guns.

>>63890107
You're in luck bro.
NEW >>63891004
NEW >>63891004
NEW >>63891004
NEW >>63891004
NEW >>63891004

>>63876616
no lock pick...baka

>>63891949
Yeah, I'm not going to jail