Thread 95840831

Grand Cathay Edition

Resources:
WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwh
WM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgeba
WFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6
Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H
>Warhammer Chronicles:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zip
>Time of Legends:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip
>The End Times:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip
>TOW:
https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXS
https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/
>Alternative Models:
https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL

>Previous Thread:
>>95822987

>Thread Question:
What do you think about Cathay's development, as a faction?

Them chinese fellas aren't very compelling.

I like the concept, dont like the execution. Also Im not buying into a microfaction thats not fomo induced. Im curious as to the copy cat modelers though

>>95840313
this is the kind of attitude that gets you 10th edition. just make the torpedo not do torpedo things because balance, fuck the lore, fuck the model, fuck the game all for the sake of blunting all the sharp edges so people dont get their fee fees hurt by the scary torpedoes

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ
It's as I expected, that is, mostly an attempt to get a greater hold in the Chinese Wargaming Market, if such a market even exists.
But as it stands, due to its choice to appeal to said theoretical market, Cathay does not feel very Warhammerer at least in its lore and aesthetic choices.

lmao at wood elves getting kicked while they are down. enjoy your new book, knife ears

>>95840831 (OP)
I can't get behind it, feels like complete fanfiction and a massive retcon but I guess it'll grow on me. Still feels like power fantasy wank

>>95840869
>Cathay does not feel very Warhammerer at least in its lore and aesthetic choices.

yes it does. warhammers setting is a world of historical real world nations with minor fantasy embellishments. cathay is exactly that. it fits in perfectly

I see more talk about using Cathay's models for Age of Squigmar than for Old World.

>>95841060
Warhammer existed for some 40 years without cathay and it's god dragons
Blanche didn't do concepts for them, neither did any of the original artists who came to define WHF
Stop being disengenuious

>>95841082
Take your meds Grampa. It's time to sleep.

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ
A bit two-minded about it.
On one hand, the hiring a Chinese sensitivity team (CCP propaganda team) is cringeworthy and the article defiantly gave more fuel to the group saying they are adding Cathay to suck on Mao's Dong and open up the Chinese market, and while the faction has some flaws, it now feels like they shiny nature of the faction feels like a needs those flaws brought more to the surface (they may do it in the AJ). Also the fact that the work on Cathay pre-dates the work on TOW and they decided to add it in bothers me for some reason, but I don't know why.
On the other hand, I actually like Cathay and it feels quite unique for a Human faction. And while hiring sensitivity teams is a pretty big red flag, they did end up making a pretty good fantasy China faction IMO, and stuff like the Mountain armour being kept specifically for the mythical parts of Cathay like the Sentinels and Miao's human form is actually a pretty cool detail. And while I hate the idea that if you don't present a cultural influence off perfectly you are some racist, presenting that influence off well can create a more interesting faction, case and point all the anons from this very general that have complained about Kislev's Bears and Ice.
They really just need to go further in depth to the bad parts of Cathay, and add some tongue in cheek references to Cathay's lore, like a General who is lorded as one of the smartest strategists in Cathay's history, and they then show his work from thousands of years ago is shown to an Empire captain it's actually all really basic and common sense stuff.
I mean we can't sell them Opium anymore, so if we can get them addicted to plastic, we may be able to fix the UK economy and balance the budget

>>95841094
>secondary

>>95841060
if Cathay was made 20 years ago during 6th edition, GW would have gone with a much Qing era look for Cathay, as that is what the Perry Twins were familiar with and what Western media in general was familiar with when dealing with Fantasy Chin, a along with being more inline with Warhammer general aesthetic.
GW would not have had a sensitivity Group to grind of edges so the faction could appeal to a mainland Chinese audience.

>>95841082
You could argue that Gallahger did some small work for them since he did do art in the 8th edition rule book, and he is The Artist who defined the Empire for Warhammer Fantasy

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ
Cathay is fine. I mean it's no less retarded than skaven became and seems to be a "elite unit faction" option for non chaos humans while so far not stepping on anyone's toes. While I personally don't have any interest in collecting them a few people I know do so look forward to a new army to face for the first time in...shit 15 20 years? Either way they seem fine.

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ
I like the models they've shown and that's honestly all I care about lol. I'll probably collect them at some point

>>95841105
nah, back in 6th edition dynasty warriors was one of the most popular video game franchises on the market and also a lot of westerners only exposure to chinese history, so it probably would have looked a lot like that, which it does. most of those designs are based on 3 kingdoms era which is probably the most heavily romanticized in popular fiction, and thats what we saw them go with

5th edition is the warhammer asthetich

>>95841101
Dementia progressing well I see

How do I start high elves with the blood island starter?
Any recommendations for a cheapish army that can function?

>>95841082
>warhammer only looks like warhammer if its based off of some blache coffee stain from 30 years ago

fuck off. shit like this is why the franchise died in the first place.

>>95841156
your ignoring that GW staffers like the Perrys did do historical Chinese models, but it was all Opium Wars stuff as that was the era of Chinise history that a bunch of mid20th century educated middle class brits would know about, i somewhat doubt anyone working in the GW nottinham Office even know what Dynasty Warriors would have been in years between 2000-2005.

>>95833817
I get it, you like what you like. Good on you for sticking with it.

As per my dwarfs, pic related is some fairly rough WIP of my latest batch of dwarfs, as of last night.

>>95841260
>your ignoring that
Not him. But he should.

>>95841082
>because it wasn't the game for 40 years it can' be in the game now.

Completely retarded lol, you could use that argument against anything that was added in the game since 2nd edition.

>>95841101
>the one complaing about aesthetics and advocating for the same stagnation that already killed the game once isn't just a secondary.

>>95840845
The dragon is really cool. It looks scary and mean and evil and is one of the best dragons GW has ever put out (I rate the new zombie dragon above it, but that's about it). But everything else feels pretty wack yeah, it's neither grimdark nor has any element of comedy. The line infantry feel really off from the line infantry of pretty much every other faction except I guess dwarfs and high elves? Also with the current TOW ruleset it's just going to be spamming sentinels which will presumably have a 3+ or better armor save.

>>95840831 (OP)
There's some lore stuff I'm not a fan of but the aesthetics are good and the models are great. So far I'm okay with them.

>>95841247
find another game

>>95841260
>the perry's did this one era of China so warhammer can never touch any other era of China

Nah, that logic doesn't even fly in the perry's own catalogue. They have European ranges spanning 1000 years of different eras and cultures. Just because the perry's were interested in something once doesn't bar warhammer or the perry's from playing around with other time periods

Hell even amongst warhammers own western humans you have several different eras and cultures like empire, Brettonia and norsca

This shallow appeal to old good new bad is such a dim mindset

>>95841260
2000-2005 was the peak of dynasty warriors popularity. 2 and 3 for the ps2 were huge

>>95841105
>qing era look

And what is a "qing era look"? That's a really long time period that went through a lot of changes anon. It looks like they were going for lamellar armour which was used during the ming and into the early qing dynasty. I also don't see how the qing dynasty period would be more fitting than the qing dynasty period seeing as it didn't start till the mid 1600's which is a pretty late historically for whf to take inspiration from.

It also feels pretty cringe that ruleswise Cathay is probably just going to end up being the Empire but better.

>>95841368
Anon you don't even play the game to begin with, I don't see why you would be mad about what other people do with it.

>>95841359
>it's neither grimdark nor has any element of comedy.

Ah yes because when I look at the high elf range I think "wow this is so grimdark and comedic"

>>95841413
You're literally saying the defining aesthetic aspect of Warhammer is unimportant. I have no idea why you're even interested in the game. There are better wargames in terms of rules. If you genuinely think "throw out the Blanche" then the flavour and aesthetics of the setting must have no appeal to you.

>>95841405
>focuses on armoured melee infatry with some warmachines and cav, no cheap melee or missile infantry
>the Empire but better

>>95841425
in the same post I note dwarfs and high elves as the equivalent comparison. Can you not even read 5 sentences?

>>95841436
In terms of TOW's ruleset? Yeah. They'll have good warmachines, they have a flyer that will have 360 degree LoS and a good shooting attack and they will have better knights, a dragon and good monsters. I guess they won't have demigryphs but that's the only thing I see the Empire having better.

>>95841434
>You're literally saying the defining aesthetic aspect of Warhammer is unimportant.

Focusing on the aesthetics and not the game is pretty big hallmark of a secondary, yes. Especially when You're not actually looking at the aesthetics as a whole just focusing on the parts you like. Blanche's style is not the sole style of warhammer.

>>95841457
I wasn't saying that they couldn't be better than the empire persecution, I was just trying to point out that they're going to be completely different than the empire.

Dwarfs would be a better example of "the empire but better " than what cathay is shapping up to be

>>95841443
And treating two mainline faction's aesthetics like they're "out of wack" is pretty silly.

The big issue with Cathay is that we get it precisely now, when cultural sensitivity is a thing.

Cathay should have been developed from a Western perspective looking at the other - hence why our Mongolians are Hobgoblin wolf riders, Ogres and backwards Hung tribesmen.

Cathay should play up all the eastern tropes because that makes things feel more Warhammery

It would have been more interesting had it been a mystery whether the dragon royals were actually dragons

>>95840831 (OP)
It's alright but I think it would be cooler if Cathay was the premier air power as it would give them more of a niche of their own and make them less redundant as far as human factions go. Something like pic related but in the style of junks that they could use to protect their tenuous overland routes along with some floating islands to rest on in between, things they already have and would make sense to expand upon. As for why it's not present in the main timeline, just say that it's another innovation they gave up on due to the emperor's disinterest in change like the Chinese dismantling their fleet irl.

Plus I always thought the zeppelins in WoW were cool and provided a sense of interconnectivity to the world which I know dwarfs have as well so maybe they could work together on this front, or better yet compete for control over the skies. You could even have air pirates ala Castle in the Sky making a living by raiding the sky caravans! In general I just see these parts of the world as such a missed opportunity, we have the technology so use it already dummies

>>95841279
Looking good and a little bulky, the AoW dudes just barely fit on 20mm it seems.

>>95841511
Our vikings are chaos warriors
Our aztecs are lizardmen
Etc.

>>95841496
It's just a little weird to me the two existing major human factions, who are European inspired, have plenty of dumb or overly grimdark shit in their models, whereas the new Chinese human faction is much closer to the perfect elves in presentation.

>>95841556
To be fair chaos warriors = vikings really only came into major force in 6th ed. Chaos was more interesting before that.

>>95841556
>greenskins from Africa

>>95841594
Greenskins are capable of some level of innovation and organisation and as such cannot possibly be from Africa

I see /pol/ is creeping in as secondaries per usual
Greenskins arent blacks they are how ancient western civs saw barbarians mixed with fantasy mostly D&D and other sources etc.
>>95841522
airships on an essentially 2 dimensional board will always be kind of shit tho, and i think 1 or 2 units is ok but an entire army would be silly
>>95841511
>Cathay should play up all the eastern tropes because that makes things feel more Warhammery
part of warhammers allure has always been it takes legends, rumors, etc from real life and makes them real. Making Cathay essentially part real china part what people thought china was this mystical land of crazy stuff should work like a charm.

>>95841594
Nah, Greenskins are from all over. Have the Southlands ever been fleshed out in lore at all?

>>95841800
I remember lizardmen being in Madagascar and south Africa from something, but I'm not 100% on that. And I think there are a few teams for bloodbowl from that area but that's definitely spuriously useful at best.

>>95841552
Thank you!

They're some chunky boys indeed. To the point that the guy with the great axe has to stand on a 20x40 mm base.

I also replaced all their weapons, the original blades were so grotesquely large, that even GW weapons looked realistic by comparison.
This also made them much easier to rank up in pretty much any configuration I want, regardless of 20mm bases.

I'll also add this, these are great models and I'll buy more in the future. But fuck me would they have benefitted from painting BEFORE full assembly.

So I don't give a shit about the models part of Warhammer. I just want the best iteration of the rules so that I can get a feel for miniatures wargames generally.

So which iteration of Warhammer fantasy stuff is the best iteration of the rules?

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ

I like them a lot. My friend and I have wanted them in since we were young teens so to see them as is is great!

That said, I can't help but feel this is a repeat of Tau in 40k. Introduction was met with similar "THEY'RE TOO GOOD FOR 40K!" , but I am fairly confident if Cathay is received well enough for them to be continued, damn right there will be some dirt beneath the surface.

>>95840831 (OP)
I haven't really followed Cathay, but I do wonder one thing. Are they the third Get the Fuck Off of my Lawn race with Tomb Kings and Wood elves?

>>95841582
I don't see why simply being human faction means they have to be similar to other human factions, especially when they aren't right next door to eachother like brettonia and empire. Also something can't be a pattern or trend when there's only one occurrence.

>>95841868
lord of the rings

>>95840831 (OP)
Not a big fan of Cathay. The concept is cool enough but the sanitized avoid hurting the feelings of the Chinese people type bullshit is lame and gay.

>>95841932
Indeed. Hail China!

Apparently the upcoming TOW faq/errata got leaked? Anything interesting in it?

>if the rumours are true, eternal guard might actually not be shit
they have hand weapons, they can have a shield
give me that 4+ save please, 3+ on guardians of talsyn due to the parry rule they have

>>95841758
>I see /pol/ is creeping in as secondaries per usual
>Greenskins arent blacks they are how ancient western civs saw barbarians mixed with fantasy mostly D&D and other sources etc.

Yeah u say that but what about Savage orcs? Wearing nothing except warpaint and scraps of cloth, with bones through themselves as ornamentation

>>95841977
I accept your concession

>>95842087
If that's actually the errata it nerfs chaos and fixes no systemic problems.

>>95842176
I like that it did nothing to HElf dragons

>>95842112
Hi retard. Do you think stone age tech and culture like beads, shamans, grunting/likited language, and painting in caves was limited only to Africa?
Even funnier because in lore savage orcs were the OG orcs and often live in the desert regions making them even dumber thanks to sitting in the sun all day but are just orcs who thought it was unorky to learn how to Smith. They even use clam shells. They are basically GWs eq of a Neanderthal but orc. The fact you see that and go "must be african" says more about you than GW

>>95840831 (OP)
>about Cathay
I don't like the terracotta sentinel being fuckhueg instead of a type of unit you can field at least a regiment of for that terracotta army look
I don't like they made the cataphract armors having gorgets rather than scales hanging from the helmets
I don't like that they made the dragon kit only about miao ying instead of making a multipart dragon kit that can build various dragons, and released the human forms of more than one dragon character as resin blisters instead
fluffwise I don't like how much they centralised everything around these few semidivine special characters instead of a more natural hierarchy and succession of human dynasties, with dragons as distant beings at the top; having them micromanage everything cheapens the faction and makes this huge nation looks way too small
I also don't like how there are no eastern dragons other than these named characters for a similar reason
I don't like the alleged primacy over human civilisations and gunpowder
And I don't like how, in order to cover cathay, we seemingly had to sacrifice nippon utterly when it could have been a perfect occasion to flesh out that one too, not to merge the two into a homogenous whole, but to have cathay work as lynchpin for eastern factions in a way not too dissimilar to how the empire logically acts as keystone to old world humans when alliances arise, kislev units used to be part of the empire armybook, nippon could have been too part of the cathay army, also ind, also kuresh why not, it would have helped selling the idea that the east is huge and the armies of cathay draw from all corners of this empire, as it was its characterisation once

other than the above, the faction does what it had to do, I like the longma and the lantern a lot, I like the idea of yin and yang being a simpler form of high magic, just split in two lores, and I like the hook of dragons having a plan that may be opposite to the old ones

>>95841868
warmaster and it's not close. best representation of battles in the setting by a long way, and one of the best designed games they ever snuck out of GW.

>>95841758
>airships on an essentially 2 dimensional board will always be kind of shit tho
That's true I guess, I mostly meant it from more of a lore perspective than anything because I think the official explanation of them all traveling such a long way by boat is a little lame and also terible from a logistics standpoint. In an average battle they would probably just be used as motherships for the lanterns and on longer journeys the lanterns could be used as eyes/look-outs like celestial sampans.


Regardless, I'm still going to use the idea for /mydudes/ because it seems like a fun project and I wanted to come up with a fitting explanation for Yin-Yin's absence, the idea being that she's using the new technology to redeem herself in the emperor's eyes. It fits her adventurous nature, and that she would be jealous of Miao Ying stealing the spotlight matches her kid sister energy which I can relate to

>>95842112
>Wearing nothing except warpaint and scraps of cloth,

So like the celts?

>>95840831 (OP)
My only gripe is that the 5 Dragon siblings are not are not fighting any succession wars to see who gets to be the new Dragon Emperor when Mom & Dad outright dissappeared. Also when does the Monkey King pull a "Stefan Amaris" and take over the throne?

>>95842435
Just out of curiosity, which dragon would be the House Steiner of Cathay?

>>95841080
Dont you see all the TOW players (35 grognards and smegma eaters in the whole world) crying and complaining about Cathay? Thats why you dont get nice things and have to rebuy ugly 70 years old metal models 3 times the cost compared with 40k and AOS.

>>95842195
>Hi retard. Do you think stone age tech and culture like beads, shamans, grunting/likited language, and painting in caves was limited only to Africa?

Hi retard. The only people still living this way at the time of the comparative IRL major human civilizations were those from Africa, plus the "bone through nose" is a stereotype specifically of African tribes

>>95842479
Fuck off perryfag

As we head further into the Chinese Century, do you think Cathay will eventually become the “protagonist” faction of Warhammer Fantasy? They don’t seem to have any problem fending off Chaos until the End Times, so they have few external threats.

>>95842482
>warhammer is always real life
When did your family learn you'd never leave the house, did you stack things at an early age to tip them off, or did the schools have refer you for being unable to handle 5 extra minutes of recess?
Warhammer isn't copy paste irl anon and every race is a loose inspiration blended with tons of shit they thought was cool. Is the cave painting, hunting big game, collecting sea shells, shamanism, tattoos also only African?

>>95842507
Don't they constantly fight daemons in the north, Ogres in the west and Nippon waiting to Nanking them?
No idea what's south of them

>>95842526
Personal attacks are always convincing arguments

>>95842544
Pointing out a retard is a retard is one of the few positive benefits of the internet

>>95842176
What did it change?

>>95842487
Can't stand the truth? Keep copeing about how "TOW is a global success and sells more than other GW's products" and crying about Cathay.
I will enjoy using those nice new plastic models you hate as alternative in my Cities of Sigmar army.

>>95842570
>I will enjoy using those nice new plastic models you hate as alternative in my Cities of Sigmar army.
Putting a cannon on the end of one of the twin blades of the statues would make for a sick Steam Tank

>>95842603
This will be really funny if true.

>>95842603
>Close order
So, monsters just get one less combat res
>Infantry cav get 2+
>Hand weapon shield give +1 armor
Just cap armor at 3+ and allow the parry bonus for everything so shields matter more.
>Poison
Trash change. Would have to see how it shakes out but I bet it's too big a nerf. I'd maybe suggest changing poison to ignoring armor on nat 6 instead of auto wound, but not sure if that would be better or worse without a fair bit of mathing.
>Impact hits
Good change
>Outnumber
Good change. Might be best change for health of game.
Everything else is mid or no opinion from me

>>95840831 (OP)
I think it’s very funny they are carefully removing possible negatives from Cathay and differentiating it from Japan or Korea when Kislev is a grotesque parody of all Slavic cultures. Gotta get that bag I guess, or maybe it only matters if it’s not whites.

>>95842644
Kislev wouldn’t be interesting if it wasn’t what it was.

>>95842650
lol

>>95842620
By cap armor I mean static armor at 3+, so the only way to get 2+ is from the parry bonus, and give it to any unit that can hand weapon + shield

>>95842603
This is a funny targeted nerf to chaos so I can only assume the writer plays high elves.

>>95842603
>no changes to wizard levels
Ok so there's still no reason to take non-lvl4 casters
The rest seem fine but would have liked to see +1 rank bonus to infantry

>>95842676
but they did. That's what overwhelm is essentially.

>>95842693
*outnumber

>>95842603
>Rob very strongly hinting there would be a reason to take level 2s and level 4 wizards would not be so mandatory in every square based video
>this

>>95842603
Aren't flails already great?

>>95842603
If they think two minor points changes and a skirmishers rule change that affects Pegasus Knights the least out of any skirmishing unit fixes Bretonnian, the designers are retarded. I don’t believe this. They make sensible changes to chaos dragons, but leave high elf and tomb king ones totally untouched? Even the TOW rules guys aren’t this stupid.

how are dwarf rangers usually run? Crossbows and shields?

>>95842319
Warmaster is tied with MESBG as the best systems ever made by GW. Although if I wasn’t biased I would have to say MESBG is the best.

>>95842693
>>95842699
I was hoping for both

>>95842720
I’ve never even pretended to look at the rules for that so I won’t combat you.

>>95842715
>Even the TOW rules guys aren’t this stupid.

>>95842620
>>95842603
With all those changes together a solo dragon charging most infantry blocks is risking losing every time, right? Actually let's consider the worst case:
Chaos Rapelord on a Fuckdragon charges a block of shitty goblins. The goblin champion challenges him and gets fucked up completely.
>close order +1 (rapelord on fuckdragon has unit strength 10)
>kill/overkill +6
Total 7
>close order +1
>ranks +3 (horde bonus)
>outnumber +1
>banner with warbanner +2
Total 7, but the musician breaks the tie so Rapelord loses. Hope he doesn't fumble the roll.

>>95842727
Warmaster is really good but not perfect. MESBG is as perfect as I have seen a ruleset. That being said I still prefer WHFB/TOW because Fantasy was and remains my childhood first love. 40k caught my eye as a kid (battle for Macragge) but Fantasy made me fall head over heels for the hobby.

>>95842758
Can basic goblins take the magic banners?

>>95842769
Probably not relevant, but I say Blood bowl is the best game GW has put out. Otherwise it's either 7th or ToW for favorite fantasy even if I will admit both warmaster and MESBG have real good differences

>>95842784
I haven’t played blood bowl so idk but the concept of chess with dice never appealed to me.

>>95842778
Night gobbos can take a 50pt magic banner

>>95842778
1 per 1k points, yes.

>>95842795
>3pt goblin can take a banner but my 4pt clanrat can't

>>95842804
because Goblins > Skavens

>>95842804
You're paying for the sins of end times into AoS

112 replies and so far a single anon has posted models.

>>95842852
Can you make that comprehensible

>>95842570
Wut? Either your confused or you're claiming to use those shitty historicals in AoS dioramas, either way not the bait nor burn you think it is.

>>95842789
I can understand that position, but its the epitome of Your Dudes if that's your thing.

>>95842866
Based defensive skink

If possible, I'm gonna buy every cathay kit for release

>>95843104
I’ll be more than willing to buy it off of you for 60% off after it sits in your basement collecting dust.

TOW players are so salty and angry without reason. You get new things and instead of being happy, you hate it as if GW cancelled WHFB/TOW again. What a retards, you deserve nothing.

>>95843140
Nah, if I can keep my current pace ill be done end of year/ early next year

>>95843164
Fuck off perryfag no one's unhappy we getting stuff here
>what a retards
Pottery

Well I'll be. Someone at GW does care. I'm honestly kind of shocked they bothered editing out the KF.

>>95843164
You are allowed to critique product anon. You can both enjoy/love a setting and critique decisions a company makes regarding it, including new product. Faggot.

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ
I've come to accept hat these are the aesthetics we're going with. Tang wank is gonna Tang wank, I guess. Fucking. Fine.

I do feel it's a shame that we're likely never gonna get more diversity (how ironic to be using that word) between the different provinces of this fuckhuge territory and show off unique aesthetics, because for all that the CCP likes to parade their minority ethnic groups to the world, they simultaneously push Han Chinese hegemony to a terrifying degree. At best they are likely to allow the funny monkeys to represent fantasy-tibetans, but no further.

>>95843459
> I do feel it's a shame that we're likely never gonna get more diversity (how ironic to be using that word) between the different provinces of this fuckhuge territory and show off unique aesthetics
That’s for you, the hobbyist, to do. New fag.

>>95843228
How many kits were altered like this anyhow, I see the general was too

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ
I want to read the Cathay Arcane Journel first before passing any final judgement. I have no idea how and why THIS anime became so popular that it quickly got two back to back seasons and is poised to outpace the manga. The Apothecary Diaries has gotten a few people I know interested starting a Cathay army.

>>95843634
Do arcane journals even add lore bits

>>95843634
I think they’re adding a monster frog unit in just because of the popularity of this.

>>95843667
Yes?

>>95843634
Maomao is very well written character and is a textbook example of how to RP an Apothecary Class character. At least in Fantasy China.

>>95843733
>Maomao is very well written character
She’s a fun character but I wouldn’t say there’s a lot of depth to her. It’s typical light novel stuff, she’s about as deep as Sherlock Holmes.

>>95843733
>>95843634
She’s literally a Mary sue and the show is prime shoujo shit.

>>95843104
same, i'm putting em on rounds though

>>95843634
it covers one of the most interesting periods of chinese history, albiet with a fairly soft lense, it has suspense, puzzle solving, its characters arent completely one dimensional (like how the strategist and blue concubine could have just been mustache twirling villains but turn out to be much deeper and more sympathetic), its just a very fun and well written anime that doesnt instantly devolve into power levels, tropes, or have one of those characters that yells everything at volume 10 all the time in a 13 year olds voice like pic related. its a breath of fresh air to have a chill puzzles and clues anime with a bit of romance, and taking place during the period of chinese concubine and eunich spy wars is just the icing on the cake

>>95843812
why on earth would you do that

>>95843775
she's got enough weaknesses and downsides not to be mary sue.

-woman during a period/culture where women are literal property to be bought and sold

-actually autistic and cannot read emotions, which she gets from her father who is also autistic and cannot see faces. this causes her to constantly misread characters intentions

-physically weak

-towering overconfidence and hubris which gets her into trouble more than once, especially with the other helper staff which are often more sly than she gives them credit for, like jinshis staff.

-no actual powers or authority. all success is just derived through deductive competence, usefulness, knowing someone else of station, or luck. often a combination of all of the above

its not the most amazing literature ever written, but it could be much much worse and more derivative than it is.

>>95842603
So what is the role of heavy infantry if regular infantry gets +1 save with shields and regular would almost always outnumber heavy infantry.

>>95843869
so i can also play them in age of sigmar, probably as lumineth since cities doesnt have a good big wizard unit to count for the miao ying, and i think teclis would be a good fit, and the stone mountain spirits would also probably serve as a good proxy target for the terracotta giants

>>95843875
Being hammers. Regular infantry will be anvils. Basically swapping their roles. Hard to say though, will have to play a few rounds with it if thats really what's coming.

>>95842562
zzz

>>95843928
Because of the inf buff is just static combat res there is really no reason to heavy / elite infantry as the role of the infantry just seems to tank damage and stay on the board and that's more effiecient to do with lower model cost units

>>95843945
Not disagreeing with you, just saying i think it means heavy infantry won't be used as walls. Except maybe the dwarves. One smaller unit of heavy infantry (10-20 depending on unit) built for offense like halberds or big weapons that charges late to support base infantry blocks will be more common.

>>95842603
>>95843875
>>95843928
>>95843945
>>95843973

Jade Warrior with Hand Weapon & Shield
>Heavy Armour (+5 Armour Save)
>Shield (+4 Armour Save)
>Hand Weapon (+3 Armor Save)
>Defensive Stance (Rerolls 1s for Armour Saves if the unit has not moved)

>>95843983
WS4 S4, -1AP base on their hand weapons and a 6++ ward from magical jade too. 10ppm.

Cathay looks like uninspired shit.

Cathay and kislev should have been scrapped for a cowboy faction

>>95842603

Impetuous based on leadership is a good change. I also like the sword and board save for infantry.

Would anyone mind sharing a 2k point all-rounder dwarf list? Not looking for meta cheese, just trying to get an idea of how to build these guys. Feels like there's a lot of overlap between their different infantry units.

>>95844025
Beastmen are already in tho

>>95843983
>>95843988

Are you making this up?

>>95843634
For Western Anime fans, Apothecary Diaries is their first introduction to a Chinese palace soap opera/drama.

khalida? neferher of her

>>95841868
warhammers rules are absolute ass, they were mid at the release in the 80's and they have not aged well.
That said, 6th edition if official
Warhammer Armies Project if unnoficial
Also might want to give One Page Rules a look. Its not good but it is free and simple
warhammer clone.

Cathay is horrible out of place Disney looking shit designed to appeal to TWW fags and cum guzzling redditors with their "muh epic pile of shame haha xD" that they'll never touch but post pictures of. TOW is nu-GW slop, marginally better than AoS or 40k on account of its OG principles that define it but I don't care or get excited for anything that's released. Cathay is the gayest and sloppiest TOW release so far.

>>95844071
They should stop watching it and just dive to the chinese adpation of the three kingdoms kino.

>>95841097
>>95841105
>>95841393
>>95841511
>>95841960
The Chinese sensitivity team is just GW covering their ass. They don't want another repeat of Dungeons & Dragons Oriental Adventures.

>>95844122
Tell us how you really feel perrynigger

>>95844171
>If you have a conflicting opinion to me you're perryfag
Take your meds schizo faggot

So assuming Cathay goes to pre-order in the next 3 weeks that'll mean 5 TOW in the first 6 months of this year in any case we have now moved through the 8 armies they originally announced for TOW so how long till we get news on the future? I mean Wood Elves, Beastmen and Cathay will of course need a few months to get through their waves and other material but no new armies for 6 months is a bit much.....

>>95844069
He is but it's not the craziest ideas

>>95844216
campaign books and what not maybe the occasional resin kit or re-runs of mto

>>95844216
Chaos Dwarfs in October will be an Old world/AoS dual release like daemons.

>22
It's not even bait just buzzwords.

>>95844122
I do agree that Cathay is pretty out of place at the moment but all it really will take to make them feel more like they belong is just more stuff over in the east, namely Ogre Kingdoms. But i'd really like to see either Nippon or Khuresh or even Ind. Or hell Araby. Alternatively Kislev and Chaos Dwarves.
Warhammer fantasy is just that fantasy, and western fantasy doesn't really have the context needed for something like Cathay to make sense. GW just needs to add context around Cathay so they don't just feel like a completely seperate setting stopping in to sell figures.

>>95844250
Considering how well the TWWH3 DLC did i can see that sorta. So filling out WE/BM/Cathay for the rest of this year + Chaos Dwarves in October. Maybe if we're lucky there'll be a christmas box with new/updated sculpts for an army or 2. Then next year we start looking to see where TOW goes in the future (beyond Kislev launching because i really don't see them waiting out Russia being retarded)

>>95844290
>Christmas boxes
Not for old world, that fucks with the modus operandi. Only horus heresy gets fomo boxes and thats rare.

>>95844250
Don't...give me hope like that

>>95844216
>>95844267
Majority of the Welves and Beastmen range of minis being not Sold Out and are still widely available does not bold well for Cathay. TOW might have already peaked with Dwarfs and interest for TOW is simply not there.

>>95844301
Darn.... I wonder what 2026 will bring then, AoS
Skaven, Ogres, Vampire Counts and Dark Elves are more or less entirely divorced from the units that came over from fantasy at this point. Lizardmen idk. Then after those 5 armies that just leaves Demons of Chaos for the old armies.
And then Kislev thrown in somewhere. After that they'll either need to add/update older armies or we'll get new Armies going forward.

>>95844331
I think those are the least popular factions in fantasy. Helves sold out immediately.

>>95844331
To be fair the two factions are the bastards of the setting. I think GW already expected this considering they both got nothing new.

>>95844328
I was just joking. But if it's any consolation. AoS is getting some gay steampunk chaos dwarfs and not real chorfs.

>>95844342
>>95844345
>least popular factions
>bastards of the setting

>>95844331
I mean in the US at least almost half the WE army is sold out atm. Beastmen are a waste though but honestly that shouldn't really surprise anyone.

>>95844331
Why would you post a outdated or fake image? Half of the wood elves are sold out. And these were AoS ranges too so I'd imagine the least favored races with the most recent support would not sell out and all the old stuff mostly did sell out so clearly there was some demand.
I'm not saying TOW is the next hot thing but your outdated screenshot and claims are flawed at best.

>>95844371
Why entertain concern trolls?

>>95844355
Yeah
Btw I found on ebay for a decent price astragoth. Whoever had him kept him in decent shape and bothered to make the banners so I figure he can be a footsmith for my 4th ed chorfs. Now to find a recaster for the war machines and command and then I'll prob use fazbael for hobgobos and an army I will have
Slow tho. No rush.

Also doesn't really help the beastmen that the Battalion box, Gor herd, Bestigor herd and Shaman are the only units that aren't online only. Though i guess WE aren't much better in that respect.

>>95844403
Kind of wanted to see if the metal mages were back in stock or orion

>>95844365
Beastmen according to this is the least popular faction. Cathay coming up next so it's no wonder people don't start new army projects before it.

>>95844267
People said the same thing when the Tau were first introduced into 40K.

>>95844419
Ogres…my beloved. We will be reunited again soon ( sorry for selling you ) but I won’t give AoS the sale

>>95840831 (OP)
>What do you think about Cathay's development, as a faction?
I don't know anything about their development to be honest, but I'm buying into the Cathay pill. I'm not sure what livery to pull from to paint my guys, I kinda want to see if there's any of those osprey history books covering china but I look forward to trying to kitbash some fucked up Dynasty Warriors shit for my personal enjoyment. I think it's weird that no ranged infantry has been shown off (unless I missed something) and I'm not a super big fan of the dude with the dragon or the shapeshifting dragon lady. Also I wish the Gate Dudes were full units instead of being singular guys

>>95844419
Tomb Kings did a lot better though.... granted i think AoS squatted all Beastmen stuff just last year so there are probably a lot of models on ebay and what not.

>>95844430
All we've seen so far are the crane gunners and grenade throwers in the air ships. Also artillery.

>>95840831 (OP)
I think it's very interesting how Cathay developed; from being initially pushed by chinese fans to then, together with Creative Assembly, to convince GW to give Fantasy-China a chance.
The way they were integrated into the Old World is a bit odd though, especially if you're involving Miao Ying instead of Yin-Yin, but we'll see what they have further in mind.

>>95844144
What's wrong with Oriental Adventures?

>>95843634
I dunno about the anime but I got started on the manga and then read all the light novels. Fuckin love Maomao and also I like how they depict the emperor as both a tyrant but also a person.

>>95844468
Didn't the almanack say Cathay was sending troops to the Empire in their time of need? Like the last time i heard it was just a small civil war between provinces how is that worth sending aid.... or were they referring to something pre-end times when Cathay was involved in Warhammer Fantasy and not ToW?

>>95844466
yeah, but I'm assuming that the guys in the ship are locked to the ship statwise. And artillery isn't infantry.
I do hope their wizard units use the square hat with the tassels though

>>95843228
what is KF?
Also good luck on your dudes anon.

Wait until GW and their team of Wumao trolls make Cathay the most unbearably OP faction in the game, lest they "hurt the feelings of the Chinese people"

>>95841082
Based and truthpilled

>>95837658
Wait we could've had a qirin? That's bullshit, we should've got one. Fuck you "it looks dumb without wings" model clouds around it or something, you can add dynamism in other ways. Also gimme a hakutaku after you crown a new emperor or something

>>95844669
Karl Franz, emperors initials were on some shields and armor decorations.

>>95843213
What is a perryfag?

>>95844671
I also like to create scenarios in my head to get mad at. Very healthy.

>>95843228
I really wonder how the alteration was made
did they fill a crevice in the old mould? or did they make whole new moulds for this? because if it's the latter that's mighty retarded, but if it's the former that could open some interesting options for other kits too

>>95844692
Its /wfg/'s version of Ben, a boogeyman

>>95843228
How are the mouldlines?

>>95844756
someone with an original and new sprue could tell if it's a new tool but i doubt it
my guess is they welded a spot in there and refinished it, or made it deeper 'overwriting' the letters

>>95844692
>some autist keeps posting his non warhammer perry minis
>insists its on topic
>gets shitposted because it is not
>autist finally realises he is not getting response he wants
>reverts to shitposting randomly on /wfg/

>>95844476
It was written by white people, and uses the word "oriental," which is more than 10 years old and thus has become hate-coded. The current preferred term is "people of lemon freshness."

>>95844481
Probably just in response to the rise of Chaos.

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ
I like them, I'm just annoyed by people doomposting that they "don't fit" because they are too clean.
It feels like people forget that this is supposed to be a elite expedition force accompanying the child of the emperor, of course those aren't unwashed peasants.
I hope we get rules to put some ogre mercenaries into the army would be fun to convert.

>>95845128
Its not about being clean. High Elves are clean but fit. Cathay don't fit. As a previous anon said none of the original artists have worked on this iteration of Cathay so of course it's going to be devoid of the soul that made Warhammer great in the first place

>>95845140
>As a previous anon said none of the original artists have worked on this iteration of Cathay so of course it's going to be devoid of the soul that made Warhammer great in the first place
Its a kitchen sink setting

>>95845140
If that's the case then it's a dead setting, why make something beyond the old world when you're not allowed to ever elaborate on it.
This unwillingness to allow new things is one of the reasons fantasy died.

>>95845128
I want the filthy peasants, who else is gonna be the outer disciples?

>>95845169
Theres nothing wrong with trying but they'll fail miserably each time because nu-GW is run by cucks, simple as.

>>95845169
>This unwillingness to allow new things is one of the reasons fantasy died.
Cite your sources.

>>95845128
I mean they definitely look more AoS than TOW.

>>95845186
Nta but there was both an interview and a white dwarf journal that said that the fans wanted fantasy to retain a focus on fantasy Europe, so they never had much wiggle room for creativity, and why Cathay never really became anything but a kitbash project.

Fast forward to gw only refreshing elves for the umpteenth time.

>>95845188
Have you seen the abominations that make up AoS?

>>95845195
I've seen the abominations that make up fantasy battle.

>>95845140
So that explains why cathay looks better than most of the old armies

>>95841279
lmao, the prisoner slayer from bfsp is still such a funny mini. Can't believe they included him as a throwaway extra trinket, without even a base.
Speaking of, that box also included a neat little goblin squashed by a cannon ball. That actually had use as a token for where the cannonball landed before bouncing. Wish I hadn't lost mine.

>>95845305
Its the same slayer as the one you get in the box, I always assumed that there was some scenario involved where you free him from goblins.

Any decent WFRP youtubers?
Tried watching Andy Law because he supposedly worked at GW for a long time, but got overwhelmed by onions cringe.

What do you think about this as a more balanced VC list? Only one Mortis Engine (and not on a General), no Terrorgheists, small BK unit (so not a brick), less used units (bats, coach). Alternatively, I can swap Coach to 6 Hexwraithes.

++ Characters [985 pts] ++
Master Necromancer [215 pts]
(Hand weapon, Level 4 Wizard, General, On foot, Spell Familiar, Earthing Rod, The Flayed Hauberk, Necromancy)
Master Necromancer [455 pts]
(Hand weapon, Level 4 Wizard, Mortis Engine, Skull Staff, Spell Familiar, Crown of the Damned, Illusion)
Tomb Banshee [90 pts]
(Hand weapon)
Tomb Banshee [90 pts]
(Hand weapon)
Wight Lord [135 pts]
(Hand weapon, Heavy armour, Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner], On foot, Charmed Shield, Helm of Commandment)

++ Core Units [506 pts] ++
26 Grave Guard [446 pts]
(Great weapons (replace shields), Heavy armour, Shield, Drilled (0-1 per 1000 points), Seneschal [Obsidian Lodestone], Standard bearer [Drakenhof Banner])
20 Zombies [60 pts]
(Hand weapon)

++ Special Units [45 pts] ++
3 Fell Bats [45 pts]
(Claws and fangs (Hand weapons))

++ Rare Units [462 pts] ++
5 Blood Knights [257 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Iron-shod hooves, Full plate armour, Shield, Barding, Standard bearer [Rampaging Banner])
Black Coach [205 pts]
(Spectral scythe, Iron-shod hooves (Hand weapons))

>>95845349
No WFRP is too niche to get YouTubers, some decent blogs like Awsome lies but that's not really the type of content your looking for

>>95842603
So with these changes are chaos warriors good now or?

>>95845294
Define better

>>95841105
Cathay is B.O.R.I.N.G
Who cares about a mary sue Chinese faction. Get rid of it or redo it.

>>95842603
RIP my witch elves, poison was the crutch that kept them in my list, overall feels like my Dark Elves will be relying on the dragon even more after these changes so I hope it's not true.

>>95845436
It’s inherently already more interesting than the other human factions by not being more of the same.

320 - Doombull, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Gnarled Hide, Pelt of Midnight, Giant Blade, The Fur of Sharggu
390 - Great Bray-Shaman, Slug-skin, General, Razorgor Chariot, Wizard Level 4, Daemonology, Dispel Scroll, Power Scroll
70 - 10 Chaos Warhounds, Armour Hide (1)
140 - 20 Gor Herds, Additional Hand Weapon
140 - 20 Gor Herds, Shield
100 - 20 Ungor Herds, Shortbow
100 - 20 Ungor Herds, Shortbow
130 - 10 Bestigor Herds
95 - 5 Centigor Herds
102 - 2 Minotaur Herds, Great Weapon
215 - Cygor
195 - Jabberslythe

Is this a good list?

>>95845449
Just being different doesn’t make it good. But I see your point.

>>95845449
>the empire but with chink eyes
wow so revolutionary

>>95845417
They were always OK, as they actually saw tournament play as sorcerer bunkers over Chosen, ironically as how much WOC players say how awful they are.

Now? They are more viable for sure.

>>95845446
>relying more on dragons

Sorry anon but someone woth their finger on the pulse confirmed more changes are coming for dragons.

>>95845456
Don't waste points on a great weapon and magic weapon. Just use default hand weapon (free) as when you have a magic weapon, you must use it.

>>95845456
Looks ok otherwise but split your warhounds into two units of 5 to tank shots for a turn for one unit each. Dead hounds > dead gors.

>>95845449
>spearmanni, hombre gigante and dragon ladies
Revolutionary.

>>95842603
If Wizarding Hat gives you Wizard level 1 and Stupid, how can you cast spells when being stupid makes you unable to cast spells?

>>95845589
I think it just means if you fail the Stupidity test at the start of the turn.

Is there a sheet on what bases ogres belong on in TOW, they only come with rounds because of AOS.

>>95845653
Here you go

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/warhammertheoldworld_legends_ogrekingdoms_eng_24.09-ryndc6xev2.pdf

>>95845653
their legends PDF on warcomm does

>>95845660
>>95845663
Thanks

Shame Cathay isn't exclusively based on the Ming instead of the old and boring three kingdoms dynasty warriors slop.

Finished my ironguts. 4 leadbelchers and a tyrant and the ogre army will be done

>>95845712
What's the difference?

>>95845743
one goes chong chung, the other chang ching

>>95844419
Lizardmen are Ravening Hordes ??

>>95845743
Just more interesting in my opinion. They revolted and drove out the Mongols and then initiated a golden age, nice mix of gunpowder and traditional weaponry like the Empire. They also fought the Japanese invasion of Korea together with the Koreans.

>>95845713
Nice work anon I love it.

I feel like Warriors of Chaos should be able to take dark elves as allies if your General has the Mark of Slaanesh

>>95840845
Bullshit the designs are excellent.
They aren't warhammer-like at all though.
They need a good Adrian Smith drawing these are too noble bright MOBA like

>>95845368
nothing? nada? intet?

>>95841393
That anon doesn't know what the fuck a 'Qing' look is anon he is talking out his ass

>>95841883
This.
I'm glad someone remembers the Tau introduction. It was billed as 'THIS is our way into the Japanese market! White people making their version of a culture and trying to sell it ... To that culture. So essentially a shittier take of what they have been exposed too for years.
Cathay being just another sanitized fantasy China is nothing to the average Chinese consumer they have been seeing that shit all their lives. There is no 'warhammer' spin here to make it stand out from the pack

>>95845769
Of course those monstrous savages are.

What does a decent Dark Elves army look like at the moment? Dragon with shade+dark rider spam?

>>95845907
ally rules have been absolutly fucked forever, just do it.

>>95844419
>tomb kings under fucking chaos dwarves
It's Nehekhover

>>95845186
>you have to make and sell new products???? Where's the proof????

>>95844419
Who the fuck is playing empire? I've only ever met 2 people playing empire in 20 years. I'm the only guy who owns and plays ogres, khemri, and beastmen, but orcs, dwarves, and elves are by far the most common in my area.

>>95846073
Cause soup is almost always used to make cheese between 2 factions. No one allies the empire for its state troops I've noticed.

>>95845712
But brigandine is mostly associated with the Qing while lamellar was used for a far longer period of time in China and well into the ming

>>95846280
Even the Qing would have been better. Bring out the fanatics in furry suits with medallions that make them immune to bullets.

>>95845456
Why shields on thr gors? I mean I used 10 because my young ass made them with shields so now they are my ambusbers but generally a 6+ save vs +1 attack is am easy choice to make.

>>95846250
1 Empire dude in my area, but there are at least 6 dwarf players

>>95846325
Might be running them as skirmish gors. That's where I've used shields on them. Usually not 20 though.

>>95845456
Make a Mino a Bloodkine and the other a standard bearer then give one of them a shield
If the Doombull is in the unit they'll have a 2+ against mundane shooting, 3+ against magic

>>95846250
I've played against 3 empire players. I know of several more, as well as a surprising amount of legacy players. At least 2 dark elves, 2 chaos dwarfs, 1 lizardmen, 2 ogres and 1 skaven too. Meanwhile, I'm one of only 2 warriors of chaos players, so I can't ask anyone for advice.

>>95846333
Even as skirmish gors 2hw gonna be better. Tbh gors are meant to die and T4 is your real armor. That said I still get some use from my 10 shield gors but I regret not giving them 2hw all those years ago

>>95846370
My gors with shields were from 7th when they had raider. God I miss raider. Would probably make beastmen way too good, but with the change to skirmish in the leaked notes maybe there is a chance of getting back for them?

They're never getting it again are they.

>>95845456
>>95846337
I'd do
Full Plate Chaos Armor
Gnarled Hide
Shield
Axes of Khorgor

310 Points 2+/5++ against shooting. 3+/5++ in combat

>>95846398
Yeah we already eating good in TOW so I doubt it.
Might be better to split the 20 shield gors into 2 ambushing units to keep gun lines honest. Or 2 screening and flanking 10x skirmish units.

>>95846364
You can always ask here and get told your an idiot between actual advice

>>95846437
I mentioned it last thread but next game I'm using them as free killers by popping them in skirmish behind units but not charging so when the unit FBIGO they take a shit ton of rolls.

>>95846476
Need to split them then 20 gors is harder to maneuver than you think

>>95846515
Oh I'm using 3 units of 7, different guy. Basically just flank bonus, screens, and asshole jumpers.

>>95846532
Ahhh yeah that's how do it.

>>95846443
I'm usually the one giving advice on how to play chaos, unfortunately. My warband also keeps getting its collective ass handed to it, so I probably shouldn't be doing that in the first place...
Speaking of which, I am tired. So tired. It's always a dragon, skirmishing archers, the plague of rust, or faster cavalry running down my langorous and languid regiments. I need to go back to the drawing board. Paint up those 42 warriors from 1997 and 5 metal warhounds I've been able to get my hands on. Strategize. Think.

Would skirmishers being able to occupy woods like a defensive structure be a fucking terrible idea, or an interesting change?

>>95846558
Your battle reports are great but competitive lists in TOW right now are pure cancer. I’d recommend playing 6th or 8th.

>>95847028
Whaaaaaat
You don't like playing against 2 bone dragons, 60 poison archer deathstar and Bowshabti???

>>95846786
They can already do that

>>95845879
If it's such a golden age, why is it always neglected by the chinese in favor of 3 Kingoms era or Tang Dynasty? Genuine question, I'd really like to know. I can to an extend understand why the chinese want to pretend the Yuan or Qing didn't happen, but Ming seems pretty chill.

>>95847072
If i had to guess it's a case of China trying not to inflame nationalists to a point where the current government can't amount to what China was in the past. Ming China in 1440 controlled about half of modern Vietnam and the pacific coast around Vladivostok. They didn't control Tibet at that time though.

>>95846274
just dont be a faggot. its that simple.

>>95847072
The late Han era (Three Kingdoms period) is popular primarily due to the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel

>>95845474
And i just bought one to shore up my offense. Meh, was going to anyway, last major peice i wanted for the army.

>>95847061
Occupy as in hard cover and draw LoS from the terrain instead of the model but no longer can charge out of.

>>95845712
Is any of Cathay based on the 3K/late Han era? I see Ming, Tang, Song, Jin and various possibly fictional types of armor.

>>95847059
Its one of the reasons I don't play in tournaments: I know I am going to be fighting the hardest, most brutal meta chasing lists possible. I'd rather play narrative or casual games with friends where the objective is having a good time than to get a big arsed meta list for cheap dopamine.

>>95847028
Ignore this retard anon, 6th and 8th were also cancerous and balance was even worse. The truth is competitive wargamming is almost always a different world from casual.
>>95847171
Wanting to get 2x the options of an opponent isnthe faggot move anon, by wanting to get 2 armies of options you are already the faggot. Unless it's a narrative campgain there's not a good reason.
Now tbf you've been attending events with what you got instead of making a conpetitve list from the ground up. If you want to win you'll have to really practice and collect different. For chaos that means a dragon, chariots, and maruader horsemen. Chosen knights as well. Iirc you're only played 1k pts too where mounts are even more effective. That said you'll have to decide what's fun for you and how much you enjoy using your style and dudes vs how much you want to win if you go to events. If it's too stressful nothing wrong with throttling back to your 1 off games. Also, it's a old game so if you are new you will be up vs people with years of experience and facing your faction which has always been more or less "walk forward." Still I think you are getting better based on the bat reps so I'd say you'll be able to address these things in time. Like your positioning and set up sounds better and that's a skill so many don't have and blame the game. Good luck out there anon.

>>95846558
Hmm lost your (you) halfway through my post after me saying allies is usually gay to that another anon.

I'm starting to reconsider my thoughts about the daemon-flesh chaos gift. It's actually very good at helping a chaos lord on foot survive a dragon's assault. Most dragons attack at S7. Assuming your lord didn't roll a 3 on the eye of the gods table that turn, he'll be at T5. That means the dragon would be wounding him on 2s, but the daemon-flesh gift would bring that up to 3s. Depending on how the Enchanting Aura gift works (whether or not it'd still work in a duel if another character has it), there's an argument for taking daemon-flesh. It also helps deal with cannons and other high strength attacks, but it'd help the most with surviving attacks from a dragon. 16.67% less wounds going through at the end of the day probably isn't worth 45 points, but I think there's a case to be made here.

Would any one be able to offer advice on my planned nomadic waaagh army? Wanted something which avoided using something on a wyvern and kept to just chariots and cav but might still put up a fight, still have some points to play with as well but wanted to know if the general idea of the army was solid or if this will fold going up against things. I can already see some pretty big weaknesses like nothing really besides my wizard being able to do magic attacks but wanted to hear from others as well.

Mainly I'm trying to go for sticking models in I want to run and then trying to make things work from there (led by a black orc, running savage orcs and having a goblin ambusher bomb, though I didn't want to run that named goblin as I like having generic characters)

Nomadic Waaagh! [1972 pts]

Characters [780 pts]
Black Orc Warboss [368 pts]
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- General
- Black Orc Boar Chariot [Hand weapons
- Great weapons + Standard bearer]
- Trollhide Trousers
- Enchanted Shield
- Dead 'Ard Armour
Orc Bigboss [191 pts]
- Cavalry spear
- Heavy armour
- Battle Standard Bearer [Waaagh! Banner]
- War Boar
- Trollhide Trousers
- Enchanted Shield

Orc Weirdnob [221 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Frenzy
- Level 4 Wizard
- Warpaint
- War Boar
- Lore Familiar
- Waaagh! Magic

Core Units [511 pts]
25 Goblin Wolf Rider Mob [367 pts]
- Shields
- Cavalry spears
- Light armour
- Reserve Move
- Ambushers
- Close Order
- Horde
- Full Command + War Banner on Standard
Black Orc Boar Chariot [144 pts]
- Great weapons
- 3+
- Standard bearer

Special Units [537 pts]
12 Orc Boar Boy Mob [307 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Frenzy
- Shields
- Big 'Uns
- Warpaint
- Full Command + Banner of Butchery on Standard
5 Orc Boar Boy Mob [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Frenzy
- Shields
- Warpaint
- Full Command
5 Orc Boar Boy Mob [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Frenzy
- Shields
- Warpaint
- Full Command

Rare Units [144 pts]
Black Orc Boar Chariot [144 pts]
- Great weapons
- 3+
- Standard bearer

>>95847775
Should be fine, you're basically bretonnia now so charge away and games will either be pretty fast or you'll flub some charges or impact hits and get combat res'd out of the game.

>>95847831
I suspected something like that would be the case, one of the things which I had been mulling over is dropping the 2 units of 5 boar boyz, maybe increasing the blob of boars and then sticking a giant in rare but I wasn't sure if that'd slow things up while also providing less for the enemy to focus fire increasing the likelihood of valuable stuff getting lost before making it into combat. But on the other hand, giant.

>>95847614
May I make a suggestion for best of both worlds without investing in daemonic flesh? Daemonic Platemail. +1 toughness and +1 initiative. This way, they wound you on 3+ but you can still invest in emchanting aura or another gift anyway. Chaos Lord on fpot vs dragon is terribly in their favour (the dragons) but T6 is chonky even for that.

A fae mood has struck me, and my desire to make a VC army has overwhelmed me. I think it is underserved as one of the conversion-friendly armies. My most recent army project was a 40k chaos one painted in a limitted pallete, and I think I wank to do something similar for my undead. Please post cool undead art peices with strong interesting pallets I could use as a starting point

>>95847933
The sucky part about VC is that i bet they'll be one of the last armies to make it to TOW, largely because it's one of the most popular remaining armies and they probably want an anchor at the end after all the less popular armies release >>95844419
Ogre Kingdoms will probably get a push not to long after Cathay I bet, Deamons of Chaos probably around the same time as Kislev.

>>95847933
Depending on how ideologically opposed you are to using AoS models there are honestly a ton of new workable sculpts between SBG, the Strigoi guys and nighthaunt too honestly. Like I would rather use nighthaunt than the OG spirit hosts, and the abhorrent archregent is a great Strigoi vamp. I think the new Vhordrai is one of the best dragons they've ever done too but super fucking expensive.

>>95848248
I would have thought dark elves or lizards after Cathay just to spread out the look of the models. I can see ogres being pushed out alongside a dog's of war book.
Hell, I could see another compendium book called like war with chaos that has base rules for lizards, ogres, Kislev, chorfs, and demons.

>>95848345
>lizards
>when cathay isnt even getting fleshed out on the map yet

Question from someone who is out of the loop: Does current Cathay have any downsides like rest of humanity in Warhammer who are caricatures of their chosen cultures?
Bretonnia has peasantry and overtly strict and backwards nobility, Empire has witch hunts, quarreling states and general griminess and Araby has crusades, evil sultans and such, but everything I've seen makes Cathay look very pristine and perfect.
Any fucked up real history shit like arbitrary killing of court members? Genocide-tier civil wars with cannibalism? Extreme scale of death because of natural/man-made disasters?

>>95848386
From what we've seen in Total War and the CA interviews, Cathay is very totalitarian. Its a very nice place to live, but if you step out of line or fail your job you're donzo. Humans are taken care of but are treated more like cattle by the dragons and would not hesitate to sacrifice them for their goals.

>>95848386
It's relatively tame but there is some stuff. The dragon children children constantly bicker and fight amongst each other, leading to like half a millennium of outright civil war when the dragon emperor just kinda vanished that one time. I think by the time of TOW he's back though. There's also the monkey king fucking shit up in the south, and widespread tzeentch cults running rampant i think ?
There's also the implication of a tyrannical surveillance state going on with the crowmen and stuff.
I also heard somewhere that the dragon emperor was working on a project to cool down the planet's temperature to pre-old-one-fuckery times, to make things more hospitable for dragons but kind of fucking over all humans (and other races) in the process. I can't really find the source for that info anymore so it might've been some anon throwing his headcanon at me idk.

>>95842855
Hey I'm slowly painting up between posts, need to clean up the model and do the eyes now

>>95846558
Kek, youre literally me-- i just bring Infantry and im always getting run down by cav or eaten by a faggot elf dragon. Aint Old World grand?

Pic unrelated. A battle i had with a BRO

>>95844250
>Chaos Dwarfs in October will be an Old world/AoS dual release like daemons.

>>95848500
That's a fun looking battle. Pretty much like fantasy should look like

>>95848546
>>95848500
Brohammer is the best
Yes, some stuff of his BM are unpainted but he does make progress which is more than some people who just keep 3d printing stuff

>>95848293
I'm very much of the "use whatever is fun" mindset, my fantasy chaos army is a mix of old kits, aos, prints, 3d party, ect, but I am looking to do something more aesthetically cohesive like my 40k chaos army which I've learned a lot working on.

Nighthaunt are great, I ordered some chainwrasps because I think they'd make for interesting parts for skeletons. Just add legs, or stick them on a human body to make a bulky skeleton.

Soulblight grave lords are kinda weak imo. The fell bats and dire wolves are interesting, but none of the infantry really stand out to me. I like the mounted skeletons a lot and may pick them up eventually.

The main bulk of my force that I have planned is oathmark skeletons (I really like these if you swap them for GW skull heads), fireforge zombies, and WGA villagers to kitbash for lots of interesting zombies. The main thing that makes me want to do this project is big hordes of 40 zombies with 3-4 paper banners sticking out at various parts of the regiment, tons of fun conversions, and a relatively quick mood-lighting esque paint scheme in kind of a similar vein to these demons I did.

>>95844345
That's incorrect.
Beastmen got 1 new character

When is the FAQ coming out

>>95848534
Highlands minis is doing a chorf range in November/december

>>95849165
Next month

Something I've noticed, but haven't seen other people talk about is the fact that Cathay seems to have a technological stagnation problem.
While every Warhammer Faction has that to some extent, Cathay seems to be about 200-300 years less advanced than the Empire technologically, since they are using older types of black powder weapons (matchlocks and still using bombards that fire stone cannon balls), and they are still mostly wearing scale armour.
Granted they have more magic to fill the gap when they build their own war machines, but I think it's interesting that they don't seem to posses anything as technologically advanced what the Empire.

>>95849222
Anon, they got hot air balloon gunships, that's pretty high tech!

>>95849279
Calling it a gunship is a bit of a stretch, Dwarves have an actual air force. Cathay balloons would most likely just be used for scouting and taking pot shots than as actual combat units. Which works pretty well i'd say, Balloons to scout out enemy units probably granting improved accuracy to artillery maybe? Which the artillery needs because it's pretty archaic.

>>95848386
not yet
here are the plot hooks that MAY get explored from what they set up so far
>extreme intolerance of religions/anti-dragon sentiments/magic users other than the astromancers' court
>the dragon siblings infight for power, favours and influence and use humans as disposable pawns for what are actually petty squabbles
>the secret police/assassins of the dragon empress can and do kill anyone with impunity, there can be interests other than justice and defence in their killings
>the entire nation is constantly slaving away to keep up the cathayan war machine up north and to give resources for the dragon emperor's ongoing plan
>the dragon emperor's plan may not actually be in the best interests of humans at all, just his interests
>one or more of the dragon siblings might have become rebels of the cathayan empire

>>95842855
Made a big chaos lad, Im hoping ive made enough changes so he doesnt read as a stormcast

>>95848447
>>95848450
>>95849344
I hope they come up with something. Delved a bit into it, and so far every source is very wishy-washy on the dragon overlords and alleged totalitarianism stuff. So far the biggest non-chaos/outside threat stuff I found is that the dragons do seem to think that humans are somewhat expendable, but the only concrete evidence is peasants on the battlefield and even then the peasant info reads
>Unlike the hired soldiers or lower classes of other cultures, the "Warriors of Wind and Field," as they are known, feel a fierce loyalty to their cause and the Cathayan Dragons that watch over them.
Yeah, you can read into it, but they still seem better off than Brets looks-wise.
On a side note; pretty much every discussion about Cathay's possible flaws is filled with accusations of racism and trying to keep non-Europeans out of fantasy, completely ignoring the question.

>>95849433
I didn't even realize it was SCE until you mentioned it

>>95846307
>why yes I solely learn about history through memes, how did you know?

>>95849473
Just to correct myself on the peasant thing, this is from the actual unit description in TW:
>The will of the Dragon makes the lowliest subject of Grand Cathay fight harder than those sworn to mere mortal Lords, while the Jade Warriors and other professional soldiers never flinch when a peasant formation breaks.
A bit more questionable on the "loyalty out of free will" versus "forced to smile for the great leader" axis.
Still, the standing army of jade-tier soldiers seem closer to elf warriors than state troops.

>>95848500
I feel like it's dumb idea regardless to think that any list that only uses one unit type should be "good" regardless of what that unit types is.

>>95849433
After using green stuff for the first time I don't know how people do such nice work, it snapped off like a hard taffy, was full of already set shards and took ages to mix. Yours looks amazing.

>>95848386
A new faction with very little that has yet to actually be fleshed out does not have the lore comparable to factions that have been a focus since the beginning of the setting, no.

>>95848345
>lizards
Why do people keep saying this. The faction is nowhere near the geographic focus of TOW, even when you include the Southlands. It's not a super popular faction and on top of that it still has old 6edition sculpts in AoS. It's not happening lizardbros. Stop the copium

>>95849551
>Still, the standing army of jade-tier soldiers seem closer to elf warriors than state troops.

I mean I think that's the intent. I don't really see why people expect cathay to be just like the empire, brettonia and the empire are the only two similar human factions, all the others, chaos, tomb kings, vampire counts, vary a lot from them. After all a faction based on historical china and Chinese fantasy is going to vary from a faction based on European fantasy and historical HRE/central europe

>>95849594
Lizardmen technologically exist in the Dragon Islands south of the Darklands, but their pretty different from Lustria or Southland Lizardmen
As for why people keep thinking they might come back it's due to the end of a War Comm article which Ends with
>Trust the Great Plan
And the only faction with a Great Plan like that is Lizerdmen.

>>95849620
yeah i think the people calling for cathay peasants and mud are barking up the wrong tree. cathay is a shining empire at the peak of its power and wealth ruled over by immortal dragon gods. i dont think they're going for the european mudcore vibes with them. not to say that china didnt have its periods of peasant conscript armies and abject squalor but i think they are trying to portray imperial china at its most resplendent

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t really care for the list building experience. I need something more.

>>95849749
have you tried building models?

>>95849749
>has arguably the most in depth and flexible list building of any warhammer game
>I need something more.

games workshop games might just not be for you.

>>95849684
>people keep thinking
it's just you, mate.

>>95849749
I'd consider battle tech if you want more

>>95849780
I don't think we will get Lizerdmen, but I can see why people think they will get expanded on for TOW at some point

>>95849780
nta
He isn't wrong that they said that, but he is also flying high on copium

>>95849768
I had a full warriors of chaos army, but I got bored with it and sold 2/3 of it off. Now I’m stuck with some unfinished leftovers that once I’m done painting with, will probably get sold too.
>>95849774
Depth? I didn’t get that at all. Flexible sure, but I feel like that hurt.
>>95849788
Man.

>>95849620
>>95849702
No reason to go full grimderp, I agree, but it just seems like they lack any tradeoffs that everyone else has. They have the quantity, quality, magic, technology, monsters, divine upper class, everything.
There was barely any info on them before, so all the "Mythical far away land of extreme wealth" stuff had you pondering what's the catch, and so far it seems there is none. Kinda makes everything happening in the old world seem like childish squabbles in comparison.

Who cares about lore as long as the models are good

>>95844779
About the same as the old models. I didn't notice a difference. I don't know how that compares to new GW plastics, I haven't bought a GW kit for more then a decade.

>>95849433
That's awesome, I think you can rest easy anon, I didn't realize at all what the base mini was. No one probably will, at this point. You have skills with green stuff.

>>95849433
Yea, I had to squint to notitice, looks great. Love the helmet. The much more likely issue you need to cover up with texture paste is the highly recognizable cork for the base.

>>95849875
The trade off is probably that Cathay is constantly sieged by chaos, ogres, hobgoblin and probably other stuff I'm forgetting right now, they are also full of tzeentch cults that probably fuck over a lot of innocent people.
The average peasants probably spends his entire life contributing to the war machine by working until they either get drafted and die in a endless defense battle or get eaten alive by a ogre while working in the field.

>>95849279
The steam tank would be more technologically complicated the the Sky Lantern.

>>95849875
>Kinda makes everything happening in the old world seem like childish squabbles in comparison.
hilarious because this is true irl

>>95850143
To add to this anons post, Bretonnia arguably has a better warrior class (The average Bretonnian Knight is likely a more skilled warrior than the average Jade Warrior, and Grail Knights/Bretonnian Lords almost certainly blow all (human) Cathayan units/lords out of the water in terms of skill and martial prowess), and the Empire seems to have more advanced artillery and guns, thanks to being buddies with the Dwarfs.

>>95850088
>>95849556
>>95849510
Noice, job done I guess, thanks lads. I only sculpted the mail though, the fur texture was stolen with oyumaru from a shit toy lion (I think) I found in poundland lol, can find all sorts of good textures to borrow from.
>>95850138
Yeah the base will be built up with with filler and some vallejo stuff, GS was still curing in this picture so I didnt want to handle it too much

>>95849875
>They have the quantity

is this actually true? it sounded like they were fairly elite and thin on the ground

>>95849222
Empire had matchlocks in the 6th edition sculpts. Also no shit, tech is literally the Empire's thing. The only ones on their level is the Dwarves, and Cathy is no where near them.

>>95845368
no luck

>>95850298
>Cathay has thousands of villages and towns outside its grand cities, each expected to raise a militia should the Dragon Emperor call.
>Invariably, peasants fulfil their purpose, slowing enemies down until they can be dealt with by superior fighters. (peasants)
>Each city in Cathay maintains its own standing army. These troops are well equipped, by the wealth of their city, with the finest weapons and armour. (jade warriors)
Hard to say. On one hand jades seem to be the bread&butter of Cathay due to being the standing army, but depending on the number of cities (as opposed to minor towns) it might be that they are not that numerous, especially if the bulk is tied to guard duties in their city of origin. The question is what the ratio of peasants to warriors is in your average army.

>>95850609
Sorry anon, I have no experience with VC
You do have very little board presence but I don't know if your characters make up for that.

>>95845368
spiritutally gay

>>95850632
But do the peasants even join an away force? That just sounds like home defense for when they are getting invaded

>>95850147
Oh ya forgot that..oops.

>>95850716
That's most likely the case, the cost to send a peasant overseas won't be that much less than sending a jade warrior but the peasant is going to be way less useful in terms of combat. So why bother sending peasants? The empire is a bit of an oddity in that their 'minimum' is state troops for an army which is going to be a way higher baseline than most have..... except Dwarfs, HE and WE.

>>95850879
empire militia are the peasent equivilant

Anyone notice that the WE and Beastmen boxes are better than most other boxes we've seen? Not by a huge amount but it looks like they are both an extra half box of one of their respective units.
So 3.5 boxes of models vs all the rest being 3

>>95845368
>half the points in characters
is this how lists look now? is herohammer back or is this list retarded?

>>95851010
Most competitive lists in old world center around the biggest possible dragon riding giga lords they can

And VC in particular when played by fags, centers around abusing banshees and mortis engines being OP

The faq looks like it's going to buff infantry and nerf monsters slightly though, so it might change a bit

>>95849875
>They have the quantity, quality, magic, technology, monsters, divine upper class, everything.

I mean they don' have anything better than what elves have, and their technology is behind the Empire's in some cases.

>>95850973
maybe the initial boxes weren't selling as well as they'd hoped so they're juicing up the boxes to sweeten the deal and entice more new players?

GW doesnt usually give more discounts unless something has gone wrong or its christmas

>>95851159
I still assume they had a fuckton of AoS stuff left over since they squatted both factions relatively recently so we're far more able to throw in stuff, whereas older factions needed to dust off moulds.

>>95840831 (OP)
>TQ
Models look great overall, hated Cathay's design in TWW3, but somehow its translated to models a lot better imo.

I'm worried about the impending lore article. The "sensitivity team" (gay) has me worried its gonna be the same cockdrooling we saw in early TWW3 articles, where "Cathay could easily take over the whole world but they're so nice they let everyone else have their slice."

Really cheapens the veteren factions when an objective newcomer comes along with lore that essentially belittles them. We'll see though, hopefully they turned the circlejerk down a bit.

>>95851192
the sprues im getting still read like 2001, and a lot of the shit wasnt even in age of sigmar like pretty much everything but the helicopters in the dwarf box was squatted before aos. idk about all the boxes but like high elf archers, spearmen and lion chariots were not part of age of sigmar, except maybe as part of the very first 0.5 version where it wasnt really a game yet.

sprues are usually pressed by the thousands if not 10s of thousands. when i got a quote from renedra 4 or 5 years ago (who used to handle GW mould making back in the day) it was like $20000 per mould, and a minimum order of 3k pressings. if they had ordered thousands of spearmen or warriors and they just never sold during fantasy, they presumably have still had them all this time.

>>95851350
oh and the unit price i think was around 3 cents per sheet, for the curious

>>95851350
>the sprues im getting still read like 2001,
Is that because the Mold is from 2001? Seems to me like the plastic is different than what they used back in 01

>>95851350
I meant for the WE/BM releases being better value battalions anon

>>95851447
didnt they retool the moulds they were doing new pressings for though like the empire ones? i imagine those have updated dates, though i dont know for sure

>>95851473
Can't confirm i don't think I've bought any retooled plastic kits

>>95851350
The dates on sprues/models are dated to when the sprues/models were designed. They are not dated to the date of production. Think about it, anon. What's more likely? That GW kept old sprues for a game they killed hanging around in warehouses for 24 years, when they already struggle to keep modern models in stock, or that you're wrong about what the date on the sprues means?

>>95851510
>That GW kept old sprues
this is the most likely scenario

>>95845713
Looks good.

>>95851143
They're like half a millennia behind the empire if the guns and armor are anything to go by. closer to brets in tech timeline. and make up the difference with magic.

>>95851559
do they even have wizards apart from the dragons?

>>95851473
I posted >>95843228
I just checked and the modified new sprue still says 2006 on it.

>>95851583
well there's no way to know then when a sprue was actually pressed then, and we can all conjecture at each other in circles about the actual age of the sprues which we'll never know for sure and GW sure as hell wont say, or just drop it and move on i guess

>>95843569
Don't know, but I just got the Empire Of Man Command Set, the old forge world set for the Black Fire Pass, and the standard bearer has a FK on the flag where marked and an ML on one of his tassets.

>>95851548
You have successfully blunted Occam's razor. Excellent work, anon.

>>95851567
At least in tw wh they got their yin/yang magic via their dragon blooded lords, and light and metal via astromancers and alchemists respectively.

>>95845712
Honestly, it would have been much better if they modelled Cathay around a transition period between dynasties - Song to Yuan, or Yuan to Ming, in this case. The dragon emperor should have been a distant figure who tacitly puts his support behind one faction (usually headed by one of his children) or another. Factions fall in and out of power based on the Dragon Emperor's approval, creating a neat twist on the historically based mandate of heaven.

As it stands now, Cathay is basically just generic fantasy China - an impression of an impression, more or less.

>>95846250
Funny, in my group (~25 player in Tokyo), Empire is by far the most popular army (six unique players), followed by Orcs (4 players).

Obsessive autistic Mesoamerican history anon: Me and my fellow nerds came across the Cathay discourse and we got curious about how Warhammer handled the Lizardmen over time.

Where can I find high resolution scans of the 5th edition army book for Lizardmen? "Warhammer Armies Lizardmen"?

Also, whatever book this third edition(?) thing comes from. Or maybe this is the back of a box? If so a collection of high quality scans of all the Lizardmen box/packaging stuff that was produced in this line/edition/whatever

>>95841511
>>95841556
>>95841758
>>95841960
>>95841105
While I sympathize with finding it annoying when people whine about cultural sensitivity over minor bullshit like was the case for tons of pop culture discourse between 2012 and 2018, I generally find it to be less asinine with how it's handled these days, which tends to be benign, result in legitimately better researched designs, or ends up being tootheless lip service anyways

I certainly wish the Lizardmen were handled with more research (but specific figures in the stuff I'm asking about above seems less bad then the other editions, hence me wanting higher quality images of them), though they'd probably have ended up as an entirely different sort of faction then: Even Mossacannibalis's recent Lizardmen concepts which adds more actual Mesoamerican elements still is somewhat constrained by having to make stuff look tribalistic to fit into the vibes they have within Warhammer, rather then the sort of refined pristine aesthetics Mesoamerican civilizations actually had.

I still think more actual Mesoamerican aesthetics could still synergize with lizard people, but it would have a very different kind of flavor to it, for sure.

>>95851959
I don't mind them doing proper research for the aesthetic of a faction, and avoiding stuff that would be grossly offensive, but claiming cultural sensivity when we see the mess than Kislev is quite hillarious.

Like claiming skulls etc, are very taboo in chinese culture when it's quite obvious they are trying to avoid CCP censorship (see what happened with WOW back in the days).

>>95851977
Okay but really who cares about Kislev.

>>95849594
It is more popular than 5.5 armies.
>>95844419
Dogs of war barely count as one at best. And lizards being almost 5% of the is not bad for a game with 16 armies. Why are demons of chaos so low though? And Tomb kings? Beastmen and Ogres I get, they're niche taste for sure. But who doesn't want to play an actual pharaoh using skeletons and god statues to beat the snot out of people?

>>95852052
Tomb Kings are too based for the average pleb. It’s like giving caviar to the average person, they wouldn’t like it because their palettes are tuned to fast food and processed premade foods. Like those people that say they don’t like the taste of water.

>>95852052
Tomb kings are an exotic faction with no actual depth. Beyond settra memes they’re really, really, a nothing army.

>>95852134
Honest question, what do you mean by depth? I get the exotic part, but they're really important to a lot of the background context of the setting.

>>95852134
Wdym, they have quite a bit of lore in regards to various princes, nagash, vampires, and expeditions. Not a major focus but certainly have some fleshed (heh) out lore.

>>95851959
I think lizardmen were way more faithfully mesoamerican the older the models were

in the 5th edition range you find elaborate headdresses, cloth textures and furs being integrated, while from 6th onwards it's almost exclusively gold plates with random geometric patterns at best.
https://gofile.io/d/V9vVfR


when they were just slann they didn't have an armybook of their own, just lists and profiles from white dwarf and from rulebooks, but I've got the models and some artworks and it's clear there's much more attention in making them look like they have a culture with its own clothing and stuff rather than just being animal people with a weapon, like some lizardmen models.

>>95849684
>technologically
First of all the the word is 'technically'.

Second I know they had that ONE throw away line but that doesn't mean jack shit. Stop the copium.

>>95851959
https://medium.com/@eric.seri/saurus-warriors-warhammer-unit-chronicles-02a1d0b6d217

Here is a comprehensive history of the Lizardmen through the evolution of the Saurus.

>>95853021
NTA but it certainly does hint at something and we know there is another AJ coming. ofc it could be daemons or some dumb shit but why wouldn't they relish the chance to dump their remaining stock of pre AoS redo lizardmen stuff?

>>95844419
What's the data source?

>>95853241
>certainly
No it doesn't. It's pure conjuncture.

>>95853441
no, pure conjecture is my hope chorfs will get a mto or some sort of release same time they go live in AoS to build hype- its got 0 backing. GW, who loves tips to drive hype and spoilers etc, ended a community post about the future referencing the great plan, a very specific fantasy lore term only used when discussing lizardmen and slann.
Now saying lizardmen are next for cerrtain sure, and we've seen them mix army releases around but we know they are adding some legacy armies in so it would suggest lizardmen or slann or old ones are being planned. Could be some cathay stuff about a plan to fuck up the old world but extremely unlikely they would use the exact same term. Hell could be amazons. but that statement, trust in the great plan, is something.

>>95853497
>>95853497
>>95853497
>>95853497
>>95853497
New

>>95844419
>empire most popular
>missing 40% of its roster
>new leader minis look like from clash of clans
>updated war wagon is nice tho

It's a mixed sort of feeling

>>95851900
Are you all gaijins or are there locals too? None of my Japanese friends had ever heard of Warhammer before I asked them about it.