Night Thread edition

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>>95865963
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>Thread Question
Have you ever read a splatbook or supplement where it was blatantly clear the author was showing favoritism?

>>95895314 (OP)
Beast made it clear the dev had some very strong preferences for minors.

>>95895314 (OP)
>TQ

Beast and Awakening 2e

>>95895314 (OP)
Shame that the pic I post with the jojoke wasn’t picked for the OP. I thought it was nice

>>95895210
Alright that made me laugh a lot. At this point I think it’s just better to make a single extended test with 20-30+ successes and call it a night.

Mage sans mage anon. After looking through the required reading on inquisitor, sorcerer revised, and mummy the resurrection, I can confirm that you can kinda sorta multisplat them together into something that looks like a mage, but without modern equivalents to the inquisitor "clans" an entire powerset gets cut off. Will look at shin next.

Summary: make sorcerer, give them Practice specific Virtues and Path of Enlightenment, get sorcery and faction !sorcery + gifts, spend wp and super wp to use abilities.

>>95895314 (OP)
>TQ
Any Anarch book is riddled with bias. And not the kind of "in-character" bias you usually see from Camarilla or Sabbat books. You can tell the Anarchs are someone's pet faction.

>>95895314 (OP)
Blood Treachery shit all over mage's lore and mechanics despite being a Mage book itself. It was absolutely clear the writer was a VTM fanboy that was still ass-mad over the lawnchair shit.

So if oWoD gameplay is shit but the lore is good, and CoD has passable combat but bad lore and unnecessary rewrites and nerfs, and V5 has I don't know does V5 actually do anything good on its own merits, then should I make an unholy amalgam of oWoD lore and Dark Ages Disciplines and CoD mechanics and I dunno V5's Lore Sheet?

>>95895461
You don't need to be a part of the shadow inquisition to use inquisitor powers. One of the sidebars makes DA:Iquisitor the in-depth mechanics for Tue Faith across all WoD splats while the True Faith rules are quick-and-dirty abstraction, like how the stats for "Lupines" in the back of a VTM book don't represent actual garou.
You don't need to be a part of an inquisitor faction to use the enowments from that faction and you don't need to be part of the shadow inquisition even in the book itself. Trading your starting endowment for a faction benefit is Optional. A TF character using inquisitor mechanics is possible even in modern day.
Not following on why you need a sorcerer to follow a vampire path of enlightenment, what !sorcery is, or why you have werebeast gifts though.

>>95895512
Short answer: No
Long answer: The mechanics and lore for each game were baked together. The lore stops making sense in many places if you mess with key mechanics too much.

>>95895512
If you are already using the CofD mechanics, the lore sheets aren't necessary, since they are a copy of the mystery cult merit.

>>95895210
This, is unfortunately fully in line with lore too. Making a series of Oaths to become powerful is a thing in changeling and classic mythology.

>>95895512
As someone who made a Masquerade to Requiem conversion for his table (one guy had such a bad experience with oWoD he didn't want to play it again), you will only need to homebrew some of the disciplines. Requiem 2e's Dominate, Vigor (Potence), Celerity, Resilience (Fortitude), and Majesty (Presence) require zero tweaks. Obfuscate, Auspex and Animalism MIGHT need some tweaks if you want their abilities to match Masquerade a bit closer. I changed one or two abilities but mostly kept them the same.

From there you only need to homebrew the special disciplines. There's a conversion guide in the Mega which you can use as a basis, though it is missing Thaumaturgy. Homebrewing thaum paths was like 50% of the work.

>>95895477
Does it surprise you?
The "anarch ending" in bloodlines is supposed to be the "good ending."

>>95895593
No. I'm just answering the TQ.

Also the true ending is objectively Independent. idgaf what Paradox says. The sequel idea they had was based around the solo ending.

Hunter is at its best when your hyped up on vampire blood cocane with more firearms than sense

>>95895663
Ashwood Abbey type post.

What if I sprinkle some of my dried up blood on the ice cream children eat and market it as zesty cherry?

I love Fae

>>95895684
An Ashwood post would involve getting your dick sucked by Werewolves

>>95895749
Werewolves are skinning, Anon. Changelings are for raping.

>>95895739
T. Loyalist.

>>95895588
Wasn't there an official 'translation guide'?

>>95895761
>implying it's rape
all you need to do is use your shitty day job to get them into the avalon accounting complex or wherever and bitches will drain you dry. it really is that easy.

>>95895821
Yes, that's the one I'm talking about. It's hardly exhaustive but works as a great jumping off point.

>>95895826
You call yourself a Hunter? You gotta get your blood up man. Fight, fuck? Same neurons. You aren't supposed to be doing these things a favor, you're supposed to be conquering them! Showing the superiority of mankind in the most primal way possible.

>>95895523
Sorry, was using Path of Enlightenment as shorthand for the various faction belief systems. MtR talks about how the different Balance, Quest, etc. scores mummies have are a type of "Faith", so I was quantifying True Faith as something that would be renamed to an appropriate faction belief type. By !sorcery I meant inquisitor blessings, and gifts was me mixing up the names for orisons and faction benefits with the werewolf powers. So I suppose a clearer statement would be that "mages" get inquisitor-like and mummy-like benefits from their depth of belief alongside the static sorcery, which only requires knowledge.

>Becoming a Wraith
lol. lmao even

Is this viable concept for a Hunter?

>>95896264
What’s her Creed? Avenger?
This is porn, right?

>>95896288
Avenger or Judge seems appropriate
No, but the artist did porn and other questionable thinks in the past, so the style may feel familiar.

>>95895512
I prefer CofD lore, I just think it has more fun concepts and "cosmology" and shit.

>Mages fighting mutant hobos in an abandoned subway tunnel with a few wagons here and there
>Etherite channels his inner Edward Elric and turns a pipe into a glaive
>A glaive that shoots lightning mind you
Was it vulgar? Yes
Am I going to give him some serious backlash when the time comes? Yes.
Was it also really fucking cool and badass? Hell yes.

>>95896582
>>A glaive that shoots lightning mind you
>Was it vulgar?
subway should be electrified, one could excuse the lighting as malfunction from the power wires

>>95895512
I've always run the game in either Revised or V5 depending on the table or type of chronicle. Stains and Convictions are much better than paths and Hunger Dice are also pretty good if your table wants drama to pop up and the cost of using powers comes from over-indulging in your vampiric nature to solve problems.

Making an amalgam of what you like from each edition isn't even difficult, just takes time.

>>95895541
Loresheets are way more in-depth than the Mystery Cult background.

>>95896264
Cold iron piercings and jewellery would work to deter changelings. Silver rings are a classic, same for gold, but it doesn't have the same deterrence effect on Fera. Religious iconography is a bit hit or miss. I'm sure this would make for an interesting Chorister.

>>95895314 (OP)
>TQ
Every Changeling book about the nobility. You'd think a gameline tagged with being "punk" wouldn't constantly suck off royalty, but here we are. I'd like to know what was going on behind the scenes with Changeling, because it honestly seems like the different writers must've hated each other constantly pulling the setting into opposite directions.

>>95895512
You have gotten too many of your opinions from /tg/, and not enough from reading the goddamn books.

>>95895512
CofD has good more though. It's just different lore for a different setting.

I made a new campaign on StartPlaying which is still waiting for approval:

```
Uratha (Werewolves) often call Philadelphia a "wound," due to the vile nature of the animistic spirits in such places. Normal people, mortals, often use the word "shithole." That's where you are. You're in a shithole, a wound. You're young. You just had your First Change, were marked by Luna, the spirit-goddess of the moon. Spirits "gave" you territory; Kensington Ave & Allegheny Ave, and a few surrounding blocks. They told you "fix this." You don't even know what's really going on yet. How can you "fix this"? Fix Kensington Ave?

Theme: Defiance Against the Odds

This isn't fair. Your initiation into the Tribes, if you even got one, was perfunctory and incomplete. You didn't sign up for this. And it's tough shit. But you'll be damned if you let the bastards grind you down. Everybody is in your face, demanding the shirt off your back, money you don't have. But you guarantee if they keep fucking with you, they'll know who they're fucking with. They'll find the fuck out. Because for it to be any other way is signing your own death warrant.

Mood: In Over Your Head

How is some pup with an attitude problem supposed to take on grizzled warriors and win? That's some David and Goliath shit. It's something out of fables and make-believe. But on top of that, you're looking at things that don't exactly make a lot of sense. "Spirits"? Like ghosts? You definitely won't learn about these things in your little math and history lessons. Better get your no. 2 pencils out, and pay attention, because a missed detail could be your hide, young'n. Hope you entered this world with a two-plate bench and an understanding of firearms.
```

Thoughts?

>>95897678
>Thoughts?
I definitely concur that Philadelphia is a shithole.

>>95895512
Honestly, at this point you're better of going into the MEGA and reading through the books yourself. Seems like the issue is what >>95897017 said, you're basing your opinions too much on what is said here instead of your own interactions with the material in question

>>95895512
Ultimately, WoD is a waste of time and you'd be better off making your own game than trying to recycle 30 years of vapidly verbose garbage into something good.

>>95897975
WoD is one of those things which had an amazing concept and got a huge following because of it, but then the rubber hit the road and all the details were wrong and stupid.

>>95896053
>MtR talks about how the different Balance, Quest, etc. scores mummies have are a type of "Faith",
Yes and no. Mummy's various spiritual rating are slightly different, but complimentary to mortal TF. It's similar to Shih Qiao, they have similarities, but they're their own thing. Vampire paths/roads are also a different thing entirely
This is explained in the sidebar on page 141 in the MtR corebook, page 29 of Demon Hunter X, and pages 158-159 in Dark Ages: Inquisitor respectively.
A person can have a True faith rating, a Balance(or Corruption) rating, and a Humanity(or Road) score, but they'd all be separate morality tracks they have to keep track of and maintain separately(good luck with that). WoD20 books also reference DA Inquisitor for the full rules for TF, tell STs to tweak the powers and Piety sins for faiths other than christianity.

>>95895512
You do you, anon. It's your game. I prefer playing WoD for many splats, while CofD for others. I generally don't mix them both unless my players ask for conversion rules.

>>95896695
>and Hunger Dice are also pretty good if your table wants drama to pop up and the cost of using powers comes from over-indulging in your vampiric nature to solve problems.
I wish this could be true, but the randomness of it all makes every session an "Anon A almost never gets hungry and uses his powers almost at will, while Anon B is already Hunger 4 without doing much in game" scenario.

>>95898437
>the randomness of it all
I like to add hunger dice in with V20's hunger systems(start rolling for Hunger Frenzy when BP is at 7 - [self control] and virtue dicepools can't be higher than current BP). The normal rules make hunger not really come up at all if a player is smart about spending blood, but in combo with Hunger Dice(adjusted for generation) it works really well.

>>95896978
Mage 1e's bit about the rise of the Technocracy also feels like it's saying rule by aristocracy and church was better than the bourgeoisie.

>>95898700
That's part of the reason why they retconned most of the Tecnocracy's lore to make them more sympathetic and then made them playable

Mage 5 and Dark Ages 5 are coming.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/jason-carl-on-white-wolfs-return-mage-the-ascension-plans.713655/

>>95899099
Wonder if Brucato will be brought back for M5

>>95899099
How will they fuck it up?

>>95899206
Maybe they won't fuck it up.

>>95899099
Reminder that this is just so they can isolate the liability when Bloodlines 2 fails.

And that the key people from the original White Wolf are in OPP.

>>95899252
>t. marauder

I actually wonder when will AI be able to play W:tO with you

>>95899206
No traditions or paradigms, all mages except for the technocracy (unplayable) are the same generic hermetic/verbena/hollow one blend

>>95898700
I think that comes from the writers all being vaguely left young adults in the 90s, who I doubt gave any serious thoughts to their politics. I remember being a teen listening to Voltaire and his song lamenting the passing of the age before the Industrial Revolution. Recognizing that there's a problem with the modern age, and wanting to play dress up in noble finery. It's the same thing with the dream of the anarchist commune, wishing for a reality where everyone can be petite-bourgeois.

>>95895663
My best game of hunter was ironically in vampire. We started as ghouls, and our task was to prove ourselves worthy of embrace by icing an annoyance to the local prince.
Bonus points for giving our young neonates a healthy dose of paranoia, because we learned first-hand just how vulnerable an unprepared vampire can be.

>>95895125
For mass-changeling guy of last thread; you probably can lower the difficulty if you get the humans to do so willingly. There's a lot of shmuck who's willing to get a new life for one reason or another.
Convince them that becoming a changeling would help and you've got somewhat of an easier time.

>>95895704
If you're playing Vampire, you'd get weird looks.
If you're playing Beast, you'll earn a sticky high five from the ST.

>>95895573
Like inJJK with binding vows or Hunter pxHunter with Nen contracts. You out restrictions on yourself you can get more power.

>>95899675
>sticky high five
I did NOT need that mental image right after lunch.

>>95898437
If you're that unlucky Hunger isn't your problem, you're just gonna fail anyway.

>>95899206
"How will they fuck it up" has been done to death as a topic of discussion.
Let's rather talk about what they could do to make it cool as fuck.

>>95899099
>I think it's no secret that we have ambitions to get our new team working on Mage: The Ascension as quickly as possible. We realize that our audience would really like to see some Mage from us as quickly as possible, and we intend to deliver that

>>95899267
Why would this isolate liability? It's not like anyone working at WW has anything to do with BL2, it's all those bongs in Brighton.

>>95899099
I haven't even made the move to M20.
I sure as fuck won't be playing M5.

considering how much of V5 is just VtR but rebranded as VtM then I suppose this will be awakeningslop rebranded as Ascenionkino

>>95899827
Mechanics are arguable. But no one has considered the lore changes any of the 5e games made to be cooler than previous edition. Like what? Emasculation of once stable institutions (Camarilla and Garou nation). Oh boy can’t wait to see how a pro-feminist pseudo-wiccan House is now a major House in the Order of Hermes. And I hate the Hermetics. Or how the Celestial Choristers are going to be antagonist-coded, even through it accepts religions other than Christianity.

>>95899827
Why would we set ourselves up for obvious disappointment? That'd be like talking about D&D returning to it's roots and bringing back mechanical design from the first 3&1/2 AD&D editions.

>>95899872
It's not about what will meaningfully isolating liability from customers, it's about being able to point somewhere else to blame them as a PR move. It won't work, we all know it won't work, but it's the exact type of retarded logic incompetent management is known to Think will work.

>>95898364
>Mortals have 3+ stack-able flavors of True Faith
I wonder if you could make a workable exalted proxy out of stacking numina templates.

>>95899721
Yes actually. Changlings and kinian/fae-blooded can also do this for mortals. The fact contract can give a glamour pool every morning And access to bestowments makes me thing the ritual of the parted mists is a retarded idea from the devs.

>>95899372

>>95899206
Spending Quintessence replaced entirely with getting Paradox, because nothing can be more complex than V5 Hunger.

Paradox dice on everything, no exception.

Buying Spheres only lets you use one rote per level of Sphere at base difficulty; every other effect is more difficult.

Not specific to Mage, but since anything with a merely human body takes agg from edged weapons, it now takes Life 3 to heal damage you took from being stabbed by a normal knife. Still vulgar! Vulgar as hell!

The same restriction on entering the Umbra as the Garou in W5, where spending time there nets you damage. Enjoy your agg, which is still vulgar to heal in the Umbra!

Countermagick gets you Paradox.

Avatar and Essence combined together to be like a Predator type, which determines one of your Sphere picks.

Arete is taken out and replaced with nothing. You roll Sphere levels for effects.

>>95900014
Taking agg damage from stepping sideways is already a thing in Mage (core part of Revised, optional in M20). The question is, will Paradox/WhiteWolf 2 find a way to make the Avatar Storm more retarded?

>>95899827
Replace the Paradigms by Dark Ages-like Fellowship. Six would cover mostly everything:
>Technomancy (hyper-tech man-in-black, mage hacker, etc)
>Shamanism (nature spirits, voodoo, etc)
>Witchcraft (folklore dark magic, sacrifices, blood, etc)
>High Ritual (pseudo-scientific ritualism, complex diagrams and incantations, hermetic magic)
>Social Magic (wordplay, mind manipulation by esoteric cognitive science and exploiting bugs in human brains, etc)
>Eastern Magic (Qi-based magic, martial art stuff etc)

Give each Paradigm five Pillars-like disciplines that fit their lore and aesthetics.

Have Paradox works roughly like V5 Hunger dice

Give some SCP-flavor to the Technocracy, make the Traditions way less organized and well defined. No more 9 well defined organizations, make the Tradition an association of a myriad of cults, mystics, occult organizations and cabals from all over the world in a huge underground network

>>95900075
Only for the initial step. I believe W5 makes you take Agg for just existing in the umbra after you've already made it through.
Nothing will really top revised WW retconning it so that staying in the umbra too long turns you into a spirit. That conflicts with so much lore and is fixed by so many sphere effects that it pissed off 2e Mage fans universally.

>>95899872
If all White Wolf control is under a subsidiary, if/when it fails then they can just bankruptcy that subsidiary without it meaningfully affecting
Paradox itself.

>>95899827
Either
>Technocracy is fascism
>Traditions are woke LGBT immigrant allies
Or
>Traditions are fascism
>Technocracy is woke LGBT immigrant allies

>>95900163
That anon was asking for stuff that was cool, not how they'd fuck it up royally.

>>95899099
> I think it's no secret that we have ambitions to get our new team working on Mage: The Ascension as quickly as possible. We realize that our audience would really like to see some Mage from us as quickly as possible, and we intend to deliver that.
Last time they did something "quickly", we had the disaster that is HH5 and W5. They never learn.

>>95900163
Sounds like a good middle ground between Ascension and Awakening. I feel like I'd like it in a vacuum but it still feels watered down compared to the variety in playstyles offered by Ascension

>>95896681
Funny enough, this is exactly what he tried to pull.
He also tried to justify turning a pipe into a glaive as "well it was dark, who says it wasn't just a broken piece of metal that happens to be sharp?"
Bullshittery saves the day once again. But he's on thin ice after justifying exploding marbles as "hot air bubbles inside the glass affecting the structural integrity of the marble, causing them to violently burst on impact."

>>95900163
So your idea is basically to gut the Ascension.
Not to mention there are still Mages who use Pillars in modern times and reject Spheres.

>>95900317
>Not to mention there are still Mages who use Pillars in modern times and reject Spheres.
Where did you see that?

>>95900360
The V20 black hand book. Along with presenting a proto-chakravanti group still using pillars, it says there are other groups like them.

>>95900269
He should have gone with "the marbles underwent rapid heating/cooling recently, locking them into a volitle state that could explode at the slightest touch in the wrong place".
That's an actual thing that happens in real life thanks to how crystals like glass work.

So why did the Society of Leopold never just tell any governments about the supernatural

>>95900240
>a good middle ground
The flaw of this is that trying to find a middle ground in the first place is retarded. If I wanted to play awakening, I'd play awakening. I play ascension because, believe it or not, I want to play ascension. That's where they failed with V5 too. Trying to find a "middle ground" doesn't create something both fandoms want to play, It creates yet another schism like the WoD/CofD split and makes a third group while pissing off the other two that just wanted content for their game.

>>95900572
They did. Every government Knows about the supernatural. The problem is every government is also under the technocracy's thumb and the technocrats don't want the supernatural to be public knowledge.

>>95900588
>mayor is a ventrue ghoul
>representatives are beguiled by a changeling
>senators are mages
>the president is a cyborg

And the Pope is spending yet another afternoon with the choir boys instead of doing something about it.

>>95900232
Or they could make the Crafts the main "protagonist" faction, and everyone else is fascist.

>>95900581
Yeah, hence I said I'd like it in a vacuum, but since Ascension already exists it just seems like a downgrade by comparison

Stat him.

>>95900648
That would be the logical next-step after M20's faux-metaplot; most of the craft are just redundant side options of the Trads. That's why most of them get no play.

>>95900736
No

>>95900843
""""My bad"""""

>>95900736
he's basically pg-13 take on Deviant

>>95898364
Ah, in that case creating a "mage" should look like:
1. Pick your sorcerer org which is also a religious org in practical terms.
2. Pick your faith, which also underlies your sorcerous practice. (This means that the old joke of True Faith: Money becomes normal and mundane for Syndicate characters.)
3. Add higher virtues and piety / conviction rating to your sheet.
4. Add sorcery dots and blessing + orison dots.
5. Do whatever shi do (I haven't read DHX yet).
5. If you really, really want to use dynamic magic take the Struggling Awake merit. I'd suggest taking Prone to Quiet at the same time; "awakened" mages are insane.

>>95899668
The problem isn’t the difficulty since knowing someone’s True Name lowers it from standard 8 to 3, and as said prior the lowest is two. Could do a simple -1 bunk to get to that. The problem is the minimum requirement of successes to reach the desired result. Unless convincing them makes it an automatic success, or requiring base willpower instead of willpower x3, in that case it would be a good plan.

Is playing World of Darkness actually fun

>>95899252
Here's your blue lantern ring, bro.

>>95901191
Yes.

>>95899890
>V5 is just VtR but rebranded as VtM
That is an insult to VtR frankly. They took things from VtR, did them worse, and shoved them into VtM without any planning.

>>95900572
A catholic militant group that doesn't officially exist and may have killed Pope John Paul I tells you vampires are real and have infiltrated your government.

Who the hell would take that seriously? If anything it would just draw attention to the Society of Leopold's agents and make them easier for the vampires to eliminate.

>>95901191
I played in a chronicle which ran for over 90 sessions and I absolutely loved it. Unfortunately, some of the players did not; and we eventually ditched it.

>>95901191
Most games are fun when played with people you like that are actually trying.

How'd you stat picrel in your game?
Personally I'd have them be a marauder

>>95899206
>>95899099
>Sons of Ether will be right-wing MAGA alternative science enjoyers led by an Elon Musk knock-off who's a nephandus
>only the White Males in the Technocracy are bad, everyone else is good
>no more Horizon Realms, the game is about protecting your town/neighborhood/apartment/chantry\
>Choristers have broken off and are evil Evangelicals in service to some outlandish Trump/Osteen hybrid, who is also a nephandus

>>95902208
Autumn person.

>>95902208
Undertale, as a whole, would be best translated as Fairy nonsense. Chara is a true fae who was human at some point before going bananas. Frisk has precog spells taken from a Mage who fucked up.

>>95902238
Why?

>>95902571
Killing bygones and fae

R8 this discipline spread. The Sadhana path is Path of the Focused Mind

>>95900988
Honestly a better merit to take for dynamic magic in WoD20 is "Fae Blooded". Unlike "faery affinity", the merit makes you a full kinain and explicitly make you able to learn arts/realms/cantrips. It's a Mage merit too.

>>95903328
What are you going for with the chimerstry instead of more thaum? What is your plan to spam with mind 4 when you reach there? A bunch of illusions? Seems like you would need horrid reality which is dot 5 to matter which is a lot of xp. Besides that, Animalism 1 is useful for the animal befriending and info gathering and auspex is always great to not get screwed over. Vicissitude is always powerful for changing face and getting more appearance. Do you have a tzim friend that taught you auspex and vicissitude?

>>95903386
>What are you going for with the chimerstry instead of more thaum?
Originally I wanted them to have Path of Conjuration as a secondary path, but with only 50 bonus xp things are tight. Atm I'm leaning towards Chimerstry because I think it's important for this character to be able to do complex illusions. The shtick of this character is that they're trying to find out what the "ideal" is, so being able to have hyper-fluidity with their illusions seems right. Also there's Changelings afoot.
>What is your plan to spam with mind 4 when you reach there?
Not sure yet to be honest, I'm mostly taking Sadhana because of my own OC autism. Their sire would teach every one of her childer Sadhana, so it's gotta be there. Regardless it's also just a really useful path.
>A bunch of illusions?
I like the way you think.
>Seems like you would need horrid reality which is dot 5 to matter which is a lot of xp
Nah, you can do plenty with Chimerstry 3
>and auspex is always great to not get screwed over.
I'm considering bumping Auspex to 2 for that very reason. Lotta cross-splat stuff, so reading auras is invaluable.
>Vicissitude is always powerful for changing face and getting more appearance. Do you have a tzim friend that taught you auspex and vicissitude?
They were a Tzimisce's ghoul before being embraced by a Brahmin Ravnos. I felt like Vicissitude 1 was a really good way to reenforce that hyperfluidity aspect, and I felt like the situation was just pretty neat. Decent bit of drama potential there.

How does vitae “work”? If I was a scientist and took a microscope to it, what would I see? Is vitae normal blood but with vampire magic in it, or does it behave oddly? Does it dry and die like normal blood?

>>95896978
Doesn't that fit the themes of Changeling through? The Sidhe are the idealization of Royalty, the fantasy of them, of course.

The reality of power, royalty, and monarchy is banal. CTD is wistful for King Arthur not Henry the 8th.

>>95903641
i think the only answer we have is in a ghenna scenario so it's semi canon, but at least very low gen (in this case gen 1) vitae is "different" from blood in a way that normal scientist can tell that they have something unusal but it's different in a way that defies any sort of scientific analysis

>>95895314 (OP)
>TQ

Yes, I've read a few Mage books.

>>95903328
i imagine in the end you will be able to do some truely fucked up shit with vicissitude and chimerstry. animalism is of course a bit of a odd one, but i assume it's part of your standard discipline spread as a brahmin ravnos?

>>95903432
>I'm mostly taking Sadhana because of my own OC autism
Are you going to be getting Armor of Diamond Serenity to complement the tradition and path?
>They were a Tzimisce's ghoul before being embraced by a Brahmin Ravnos
Funny that I had a similar idea before. Except his thing was that his tzimisce master was diablerized and proceeded to fall in love with his rescuer when she claimed all the person's assets including himself. He then proceeded to backstab all the higher ranking ghouls to become more important and noticed by his master which earned their approval to the point he was deemed worthy to be groomed. Of course due to diablerie it could be that the tzimisce is in total control and it was all just a long play to totally fuck with their prospective childer. He definitely got a lot of use out of vicissitude 1 in his rise due to having promethean clay merit.

Speaking of, What are the merits and flaws for your ravnos?

Update on the Etherite fighting mutated hobos in the subway tunnels.
He pulled a "gas leak goes boom" classic and somehow got EIGHT SUCCESSES.
I'm tempted to just throw this chapter's main villain at the party earlier than expected.

>>95895314 (OP)
>Have you ever read a splatbook or supplement where it was blatantly clear the author was showing favoritism
Mage books. There everyone who is not a mage is a favorite. Especially at crosssplat interactions

>>95900232
>>Technocracy is fascism
>>Traditions are woke LGBT immigrant allies
I remember there was a mobile novel about mages with a plot like this

>>95903834
>I'm tempted to just throw this chapter's main villain at the party earlier than expected.
Don't. Let them feel like their powerful. Bringing in the villain early to end the win streak is only going to either make you look like an asshole that had to escalate thinks because the party was having bad-wrong-fun Or they get lucky and your main villain dies early in the plot.
It's not worth it.

>>95903834
Don't do it, save it until later so the inevitable pre-bossfight paradox backlash feels all the more punishing

>>95903641
Unless you looking at the Vitae of a gen 3 vampire you are not gonna see anything unusual under a microscope by default. iirc V20 describes it as a mix of all the blood you feed on so it would at it's weirdest looking like the dead mix of several samples of animal and human blood with some weird proportions because the value of animal blood is nonsense.

>>95903328
Focused mind is okay but better at higher levels and is best to have an extra path to take advantage of it. Chimerstry is *extremely* willpower heavy. Unless you're at the absolute highest stats available and/or have plenty of willpower/potence you're not going to hurt much.

>>95903834
Or have them meet the bbeg, hand them over a loss (but not too much of a loss), and whatever they do to the bbeg will serve to handicap them later (or you could even justify their eventual defeat thanks to their previous encounter).

>>95901324
>add blood potency
>it's limited by generation
>seems slightly interesting
>experience points costs is same as nWoD, which was such a bad idea they changed the whole XP system in CofD
IMHO they should've let XP costs same as WoD (current level x Y).
>they change the discipline rolling stats
>it is now Attribute + Discipline instead of Attribute + Ability
And now we have the issue that many players are dumping their points into Attributes and Disciplines.
Some stuff didn't need to be changed.

for me it's the Progenitors because it's on sight for them

Comment from the last Lore by Night video, talking about WoD5 "crossover" adventure.
Who would've thought Renegade doesn't give a shit for WoD, am I right?

>>95902213
Why are you here if this is what makes you mad about wod.
You were never the audience man, they've been like this for longer than you've been alive.

>>95905360
... I don't know why would anyone be surprised executives are kind of retarded.

>>95905645
People are stupid, news at 11

>>95905360
WoD has always been for profit at the expense of quality this isn't exactly new. We'll just pretend it matters now for some reason.

So what's the criteria for a gangrel frenzy mark to be permanent? Is it humanity loss or ST Fiat?

>>95905965
>always has been
Why do you come to the internet just to spread lies?

>>95905965
You could argue that it was an art project first in the first two editions. Quality has been a problem mostly because the people who want to write this game are shit at translating their ideas into rules.

>>95905965
>erm ackshually, it's always been pozzed slop
>and the new pozzed slop is better than the old pozzed slop because . . . BECAUSE IT JUST IS OK?!?

>>95906117
V5 is better than a lot of old shit in the sense the vampirism is a much more tactile and feeding actually is a problem worth playing out because of the resonance rules. Before that there was very little reason for a vampire to give a shit about what made them a vampire.

>>95906016
>>95906058
By second edition they were pumping out books with middling quality just to capitalize on its popularity. This isn't some darling passion project and everyone here knows it.

>>95906117
>erm ackshually, it's always been pozzed slop
Literally yes. The game uses "Her" as gender neutral for Vampires, has numerous "female only strong women don't need no man" groups, and was entirely birthed out of the idea of class warfare and counter-culture.

>>95906208
>The game uses "Her" as gender neutral
I've noticed this seems to be standard for the medium in general, no idea why though

>>95906265
Because it's an easy way to convey that you are "an ally to feminism" without doing anything meaningful.

>>95906265
Most games will alternate genders in their writing.

>>95906182
Anon, those who didn't gave a shit will not change because of some mechanics and those who did, didn't need V5 in the first place.
I am here to play what I played for 20 years

>>95906117
Hate to break it to you, but OWoD has always been pozzed to shit and it never hasn't been.

1e was inspired by the total poverty of Gary Indiana vs the wealth of Chicago and the struggle of underclass Vampires against feudal Elders. This continued with the expansion of the Sabbat where a bunch of know-nothing morons are basically goons for a broader conspiracy that's made up of a bunch of more powerful and older conspiracies.

Werewolf is the justification of violent ecoterrorism and anti-eugenics, while trying to throw its weight around paganism and indigenous people being wiser superior to your everyday person, and it's been this way since the mid-90's.

Wraith has a special book about the holocaust that's basically a pseudo-historical piece. It has the gall to go into detail about how there's a special Kingdom of Wire in the afterlife because of how many jews suffered and died during WW2. This book is one of the most praised pieces of fiction in TTRPGs by broader literary critics, and nothing like it exists in any other popular TTRPG.

Don't be a fucking retard and try to act like WoD has ever been some neutral un-political piece of fiction.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QYul79MShuo

>>95906058
>You could argue that it was an art project first in the first two editions.
To be fair, they looked at Night Life and thought, "that's a cool but weakly executed concept, let's flesh it out by making separate games for each type of monster."

>>95906312
You can say that by any new edition of a game.
I actually think making hunger and predation bigger factors in a vampire game was an unequivocal good. Sure the game falls flat on a lot of other aspects, but what it did right should be recognized.

>>95906315
>anti-eugenics,
The books gave me the opposite impression.
Not the issues with garou breeding, but how it talks about the evils of "weaker humans" surviving.

>>95906312
I am not saying it is necessary or that people should switch over if they don't feel like it.
I am saying that V5 does more to make a game about being a vampire more interesting on its own, that's why they pushed for the Anarchists to be the default faction and the Second Inquisition to be a massive threat. Without that the game will focus more politicking rather than template.

>>95906315
It's true that OWoD supported a lot of liberal ideas, but I don't think that's the same as being "pozzed" necessarily. OWoD's political statements came from a more anti-establishment or punk mindset, but nowadays these same ideas are supported by corporations and the media. In fact, a lot of OWoD's more extreme takes like Vampire's embrace of the conspiracy theorist mindset and Werewolf's ecoterrorism apologia run counter to modern, pro-establishment liberalism.

>>95906517
Werewolf for the most part states that eugenics are good even if they are immoral. The problem is that the garou come off as to retarded to live so they should be killed off by their own metrics.

>>95906542
Oh no it's a "Conservatism is the new punk rock" retard.

>>95906542
The thing is that any opposition to capitalism will be monetized and incorporated into the wider zeitgeist in a manner it's no longer a threat to the wider system. There is no real way to make a statement about "killing the rich and take their shit" while working for them.

>>95906542
>OWoD's political statements came from a more anti-establishment or punk mindset, but nowadays these same ideas are supported by corporations and the media.
You can't possibly believe that this shit wasn't co-opted back in the 90's too.

>>95906542
>OWoD's political statements came from a more anti-establishment or punk mindset
More accurately they came from culturally uneducated mid-western Gen X college kids ideas of what those things were.

>>95906517
>>95906550
That's because back when WtA started overpopulation was one of the top 10 concerns of environmentalist movements whose ideas inform the body and soul of the splat. Arguing that humanity might be making too many barely functioning retards who only exist to eat and shit was a somewhat uncomfortable, but still within the Overton Window, idea. Only when they realized that non-whites would be the worst affected should anything at all be done about them is that they mostly shut down about that issue

>>95906524
This is why I find the
>World of Darkness games should be more focused on pop culture and folklore, instead of making up their own shit
complaint to be a defence of Paradox's fifth edition, which is all about being a vampire first and foremost, being a werewolf first and foremost and so on.
But that's not why people play World of Darkness games. They don't play Vampire the Masquerade because "you're a vampire, what now." They play VtM because they really like the Camarilla and the Sabbat and the clans and all of the politics that White Wolf made up. They play WtA because they really like the tribes and the Triat and the fight to save Gaia from the apocalypse and all of the shit that White Wolf made up. They play MtAs because they really like traditions and Technocracy and the craziness of wrestling with avatars and consensus that White Wolf made up. People like the World of Darkness because it's the World of Darkness, not because it lets them play pop culture vampires and werewolves.

>>95906810
>But that's not why people play World of Darkness games.

It's dishonest to say that you know why "people" play a given tabletop. I doubt there's one consistent reason. What you described is why you play. Other people could play for any number of reasons, ranging from "I heard this was the game where you play as vampires" to "Yeah I think my parents played this back in the 90s" to "goddammit I want to play something other than D&D and you apes watch enough YT videos that you know what VtMB is."

Given the constant complaining about one piece of lore or another, I think it's fair to say that many people play WoD in spite of the setting, or at the very least despite the parts of it they really dislike, even in their preferred gameline. Not to mention, there isn't much competition in the genre of tabletop urban fantasy RPGs where you play as the monsters themselves. Many people are quite allergic to homebrewing or simply don't have the time to set up a generic system to do what they want for the game they have in mind, so they use WoD instead because it's "close enough" and they will gladly change whatever they want.

WoD5's not even a good pop-culture and folklore derived game. You're still stuck with a lot of setting baggage and the types of play it facilitates are far fewer in number than previous games. Both old masquerade and requiem can do ricepires and old gothic horror far better than V5. It is the worst of both worlds.

>>95906810
>>World of Darkness games should be more focused on pop culture and folklore, instead of making up their own shit
Yes, pop culture werewolves aren't really playable or capable of carrying a line

>>95906953
Nobody plays V5 as intended, not even the devs.

>>95903772
Oh yeah high Chimerstry and Vicissitude is a combo made in hell, but at least at the moment I don't see this character upping Vicissitude. They're not really willing to do terrible things with Vicissitude, and their experience being a Tzimisce ghoul has given them a phobia of them, so finding a teacher would be difficult.
>animalism is of course a bit of a odd one, but i assume it's part of your standard discipline spread as a brahmin ravnos?
Yeah, the idea of not taking at least one dot in each discipline feels wrong to me. Not because it is wrong, but idk it just feels weird leaving one untouched.
>>95903780
>Are you going to be getting Armor of Diamond Serenity to complement the tradition and path?
Absolutely. I was tempted to get Ash of Agni's Curse for the second dot, but honestly Garimaa seems more thematically appropriate.
>Funny that I had a similar idea before.
Tzimsce always lend themselves well to stories about Ghouls. In my case this character was the "front of house" for a Camarilla-inclined Tzimisce. Because of this he was the only one who retained a normal human appearance, but he would be forced to alter himself to fit the preferences of whatever guest he was meeting with, which led to the near-complete destruction of his sense of self. Nobody knows what he used to look like or who he was, not even himself. His would-be sire met him this way, and saw some potential in him. A bit of Jyhad later, his sire killed his domitor in a bloodhunt and embraced him. 800 year old 7th gen Ravnos vs a maybe 11th gen maybe 100 year old Tzimisce, it wasn't even close.
>Speaking of, What are the merits and flaws for your ravnos?
At the moment? I don't have any. I want to pick some, but I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm also not sure if I could use V20 merits and flaws or not since this is Revised.
>>95904926
Yeah I really want a second path eventually. Thankfully this is Revised, so I can use Meditation to regain some willpower.

>>95906953
Is "because it lets me roleplay as a pop culture vampire" one of the primary reasons why you play Vampire the Masquerade?

>>95907092
>yeah high Chimerstry and Vicissitude is a combo made in hell,
Wasn't there a combo discipline with those two that allowed the user to transmute people into inanimate matter a la mage?

>>95907021
That because no one is interested in playing the Angel from Midnight Mass, for the herd management bullshit, or a low level Anarch.

>>95907219
I can't find anything like that unfortunetly

>>95906542
>run counter to modern, pro-establishment liberalism
Almost like they weren't liberal and instead were leftist. Retard.

>>95907185
I suppose it depends on your definition of a "pop-culture" vampire. I always liked the halloween monster mash, and like many of my generation I first learned about the setting through VtMB. It seemed pretty interesting, but the deeper I looked the more I found things not to my liking.

But I was already the kind of person to never run default setting D&D so it didn't stop me, my table agreed to just write over the things we don't care about and we didn't really bother to look up who officially ran what city or any of that stuff. There were a few friends who were happy to join in just on the sales pitch of "It's a game where you can actually play as the monster".

I have no idea if my opinion is a small minority or a large plurality. I like parts of WoD quite a bit, but also can't stand a lot of it, so I just write over it. I don't play WoD because I love WoD and all its setting fixtures, nor do I just want to play Vampire: the Interviewing.

>>95906542
They didn't even misgender their Nazi tranny Tzimisce once. They were and are pozzed as fuck. Most of these guys aren't even dead, you can check up on their politics since they don't shut the fuck up about it. The most "right-wing" of the bunch is probably Mark Rein-Hagen who is a vote-blue-no-matter-who "don't let king cheeto win" liberal.

>>95906208
There's a difference between "releasing a bunch of middle quality books knowing your setting and how it works" and "releasing a bunch of middle quality books and not giving a fuck about your work".

>>95907384
Pop culture vampires have been influenced by vampire the masquerade because it has been over 30 years and some of its differential gimmicks have been adopted by the likes of American Vampire.

>>95907637
If only they were middle quality and people gave a fuck. There's a reason why Revised happened and pretty much re-contextualized the entire setting and almost every character to the point that most people don't even remember what 1e and 2e had in it.

>>95907684
I think only underworld was truly influenced by masquerade, nearly all Masquerade's vampires are derived from other vampires from fiction.

>>95907021
They changed the direction of V5 so many times that it is funny.
First it was about Thinbloods but realized no one gave a shit. Bloodlines 2 changed.
They focused on Anarchs but no one likes Anarchs.
Then they said it was all about the young vampires free from the Elders thanks to the Beckoning, personal horror and street levels conflicts, thanks to the nerfed disciplines and no Elder powers.
Then they gave up on that idea and now we got perhaps the most OP powers for Elders and they are publishing an Ancilla book soon and Bloodlines 2 is about being an Elder.

>>95907708
Blade had copies of VtM on the production floor and Blade II hired Tim Bradstreet to do concept art and costume design.

>>95907747
It really hasn't changed that much. The Elder powers they added can't even be used by a player.

>>95907765
So that's why the vampires in Blade movies have a camarilla-esque structure but sabbat levels of retardation.

>>95907765
Not surprising. I was never sure if it was intentional or a coincidence, but the ideological conflict between Deacon Frost and the 'vampire council' reminded me a lot of the Sabbat / Camarilla conflict.

>>95906497
The hunger system was brilliant, I'll give V5 that much. Elegant, not overly complicated, and an excellent simulation of a vampire's thirst.

>>95907502
This is disingenuous because leftist authors disavow their old works all the time to appeal to the current political paradigm. I see constant whining on forums about how old works are insensitive and how they later on censored various stuff. If there was truly no difference in how things were for 30+ years they would not need to always rewrite history.

>>95908669
Nothing you said make any of the shit said in this thread about how libtarded WoD has always been any less true. If anything their constant attempts to make it more and more lefty just proves everyone's point.

>>95908832
>If anything their constant attempts to make it more and more lefty just proves everyone's point.
What? This is retard logic.
I'm 90% sure you and the other fags are Renegade shills trying (and failing) to run damage control.

>>95908968
This isn't fucking /v/ you retard.

>>95908968
>Nothing you said make any of the shit said in this thread about how libtarded WoD has always been any less true.

I appreciate the thoughts on the previous discipline spread, so I was wanting to get some thoughts on this other spread from a different vamp i'm working on. They're a Gangrel Maeghar with Unbondable, so I wanted to give them a large spread of low-level disciplines. The problem I ran into is that 1: Disciplines are expensive, and 2: it didn't feel great to just take celerity, potence, and fortitude, but the options beyond that were mostly more unique Disciplines. Hard to get a nice balance is what I'm saying.

>>95909147
>>95909262
Concessions accepted.

>>95909738
How the fuck did they get serpentis and chimerstry? Obfuscation is a little better but still weird. Are you going to try to tie that to their fey heritage?

>>95909756
By sucking the blood of a Ravnos and a Settite, that's how. I chose those those two because the character's a Gangrel lore enthusiast and they're both clans with a close relation with clan Gangrel. And alos Chimestry leans into the fey heritage nicely.

>>95909738
you're missing Visceratika, Spiritus, and Temporis

>>95909775
Those are all significantly more unlikely to get than the ones in the spread, but I get what you mean. It's difficult to balance between a spread that's interesting but not complete nonsense and a spread that's really boring but also totally reasonable.

>>95909781
Spiritus (and Abombwe) is good thematic fit for a Gangrel, and easy to justify for a diablerist.

>>95909752
At least put in some effort.

>>95909771
I don't know. Chimerstry always seemed very lame mechanically compared to what it might imply lore wise. Its like specializing in a lesser thaum path where you have one gimmick that you refine, but it has no innate power to it that can get instantly no-selled by any clan with auspex. It also relies a lot on the storyteller just having it go your way to get use out of it. I don't know revised though. My assumption is you would just want to rush the brain eating of mytherceria to get free skills. What are you hoping to get out of serpentis that protean does not get you?

>>95909812
Huh? I've been putting minimal effort in my 4chan posts for years but you're gonna complain about it ***now***?

>>95909850
You type too much for minimal effort.

>>95909801
Spiritus is more Umbral than Dreaming, but Abombwe is an interesting idea. Not sure I'd be able to justify it well enough, but interesting regardless. They're also not a diablerist, they just have a particular taste for vampire blood and the ability to do so semi-risk free.
>>95909840
Low levels of Chimestry are pretty restrictive, but it's not all bad. It just means that this character has a few parlour tricks up their sleeve, and like I mentioned earlier it's really useful for dealing with the fae.
>My assumption is you would just want to rush the brain eating of mytherceria to get free skills
Do you mean the 6th dot ability? No, I wasn't really. If anything I'm rushing to the 4th dot ability.
>What are you hoping to get out of serpentis that protean does not get you?
The first dot gives me a neat presence/dominate-adjacent ability, but also just having it there is a statement. I don't plan on putting any more dots into it at the moment. If anything, my experience is just going to go to Mytherceria and growing my collection of 1 dot Disciplines.

>>95909896
I might be spoiled by dav20 obtenebration 4 where you can either summon up horrific visions of the abyss that auto weakens people or you get auto real life tier illusions with non of the restrictions of the chimerstry discipline mentioned. Only weakness is light, but you live in the darkness at night anyways.

>>95895314 (OP)
Drawfag here, I finally finished this piece! Hope you all like Salubri as much as I do!

>>95910557
Beautiful.

>>95910241
DAV20's just got a lotta go shit in it in general, hard not to feel spoiled by it

>>95910644
Thanks man!

>>95910557
kino

>>95910557
Looks awesome!
No wonder Tremere managed to convince people Salubri were soul stealing.

>>95910557
Brother this is the kind of art I want in books.

>>95903328
>animalism clan

>>95897678
>It's Always Moony in Philadelphia

>>95895314 (OP)
Is there *any* lore about the Black Sea and possible underwater settlements? Failing that, what should an underwater settlement of Deep Ones in the Black Sea be called? Can’t be anything Koldun related, because thats about the Carpathian Mountains, but it could be Tzmisice related
“Just use Balkan/Greek/Slavic lore” I tried there isn’t really anything applicable, besides some “claims” that the Greeks believed the Black Sea was connected to the Underworld

>>95912187
Seems more likely such a thing would be Lasombra-related. Tzim rarely have anything to do with the sea.

>>95912187
I think in DAV20 there was a Koldun path for the black sea in Tome of Secrets, but otherwise no, very little lore. Consider it carte blanche to do whatever you want with it.

>>95912221
>>95912254
I just called it the Black Palace and moved on, its a secret place anyway, the Kappa-Vodyanoi settlements on the Danube are the one’s “in the open” anyway. The Black Sea is contested territory between ghoul Deep Ones and Dagonians

>>95901191
Any game is fun with the right people.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a2bPJfP-vnqZ0Jevb1qaHLaQZbE5IejaoyyrWXbfaQM/

The playtest is on a bit of a hiatus and Fish-Anon is a bit busy, but I, Assistant Fish-Anon, have updated the Dagon the Descent doc with new Minor Families, slighly more Amalgam Sorceries/Powers and 2 new Cities of the Deep. This should make playing AS a Deep One/Free Fin more interesting/viable, while not interfering with the original intent of the splat of portraying the frantic search for a terminal illness

Feedback and comments are always welcomed

>>95910557
This is unironically fantastic. Got an artstation?

>>95912537
*the frantic search for a cure
though nuckelavee might be searching for a disease to add to their collection

>>95906810
I dunno, I play vampire because I like being a contemporary (or in some cases olden ages) vampire. The politics are interchangeable to me.

>>95906315
Class consciousness isn't pozzed, woke ideology is about preventing class warfare by switching the focus to minority worship.

>>95913108
Yeah, the wokes never want to eat the rich

>>95911619
I really wish we did get more proper illustrations instead of the photobashing stuff in the books now. The art is what drew me to WoD in the first place!
>>95912542
Yeah, actually! Here it is: https://andrewdavenport.artstation.com/

>>95912144
And Charlie's specialty can still be about killin' rats.

>>95910557
Cool Tzeentch sorcerer, but why are you posting 40K? This is a joke. Nice art!

>>95913342
> why are you posting 40K?
Because I have severe, low-functioning autism and an IQ around 65, it's true!

>>95912187
Funny enough, there are Koldun related stuff!

>>95913453
yes, Minions of Deep Marmora was the basis for Dagon the Descent, but Marmora is a section of the Black Sea cut off and surrounded by modern day Turkey, its also specifically under Tzimisce control. What I am trying to come up with is specifically the one place in the Black Sea that *isn't*

>>95913355
Hi, Chris!
How are Flutter and your mom?

>>95913108
"Woke" is whatever the right wants to be mad at this week.

>>95913520
Hmm, I suggest you make your own stuff with a mix of old Blood Dimed Tides, Dark Age: Mages and Werewolf stuff. See image.

>mfw I finally buckle down and try to come up with an Avatar for my MtA character
This esoteric magic stuff is hard, bro. Anybody know some resources I could poke through for some inspiration/starting references?

>>95914381
Fuck, I don't know man, I just made dope rider my cultist of ecstasy's avatar

>>95914442
>dope rider
Extremely based.

>>95914473
Anyone who doesn't think the cult of ecstasy is cool should read it, honestly it's pretty good supplemental reading for mage in general

>>95914442
>cultist of ecstasy
Does he have a cool familiar?

>>95913108
It's insane how much cope there is about the irrefutable truth that WoD was always lefty.

>>95914573
No, but he's got a sweet ride

>>95913108
You'd have a strong point if not for the fact that Anarchs have always been primarily portrayed as non-whites, communists, and queer in contrast to the Camarilla being white, feudal, and discriminatory.

>>95914712
>to the Camarilla being white, feudal, and discriminatory.
You mean like 99% of old money and nobility?

>>95914615
Better than this one?

>>95914779
Not sure what you're point is, because it changed nothing.

>>95914122
You don't know where that words comes from do you... or the fact these people unironically call themselves this...

>>95914442
you and another anon on here got me into that comic a few months ago, thanks anon

>>95914982
I know where it originally came from, and what it is now is completely mutated away from that and just a buzzword for the right to use for anything they feel like attacking.

>>95914442
I'll probably wind up stealing album art or something.

I've got the idea in my head that it's a projection of his old neighborhood and it communicates with him via changing the scene; new graffiti, the weather, etc. But that feels too abstract for what I've managed to glean about avatars from the wiki.

Mostly I'm stuck on the idea because it's an apocalypse scenario and I really like the mental image of the avatar trying to warn my guy by just replaying the night everything burned down over and over again, but that's not exactly enough to stake the claim on imo.

>>95915087
The irony of this statement is so thick that the anon started using it in ballistic armor.

>>95915087
Woke is used as a hammer on anything that looks like a nail, but it's pretty easy for me to see when something is actually woke and not just left wing. And I wouldn't call oWoD woke, it's just counterculture and the writer's completely undisguised fetish. And I love and hate it for that, but it was at least genuine and not afraid of being itself. V5? Absolutely 100% woke virtue signalling bullshit too afraid of checking boxes and being safe-corporate-left to do anything actually goddamn interesting.

>>95915211
>Woke

It's just 2010s-era leftard idpol and its associated policy/rhetoric/culture. While it's true that this word can be overapplied, this political movement is very real and it's extremely malignant.

>>95914599
The books have explicitly ordered conservatives to not even touch them.
It's hilarious how desperate they are to keep racist sexist eugenicists who believe the world is run by an elite cadre of bloodsucking degenerates from playing a game exactly about that.

Do you/your ST play music while playing wod? If yes, do you just run a playlist from start to finish or do you prepare a specific music for each scene like a film director? Do you play music with vocals or instrumental only?

>>95915953
I have three playlists, General playlist, combat, and an alternative playlist to play after combat, or just because I feel like switch with vocals, and limit myself to a small handful of genres to convey mood. My current MTAs game is about a bunch of college kid mages in 2004, so I mostly play pop-punk, ska, indie rock, and emo.

And I end every session with Don't you forget about me.

>>95915953
We just play Isolated on a loop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiYXNaQ4Fbg

>>95895704
Doesn't old vitae turn to stale blood if not magically preserved?

>>95916171
Only in Dark Ages. Modern and such, blood banks work for a reason.

>>95916286
They work if you're drinking human blood. I've never heard of elders making ghouls via blood bank.

>>95915953
The guy running our MtA game has certain songs he uses as general purpose mood music (e.g. we have a 'chilling with odd NPCs' tune which I'm pretty sure is the shop music from Atomic Heart) but he'll also choose music for specific scenes. He's not running a WoD system right now but very recently our Darkest House party fell face first into a round of the Sabbat Games and he used a track from Anarchy Reigns to set the mood. Pretty sure the Sabbat running the event was based on someone from the game as well.

>>95916286
Human blood stays good. Vampire vitae degenerates into non-magical blood regardless of mundane preparation. You need magic to keep it fresh.

>>95915450
>this political movement is very real and it's extremely malignant.
>Protecting people's freedoms and rights is "malignant"

>>95916552
Freedoms and rights to what?

>>95916552
>"Protecting people's freedoms and rights"
By removing the rights of others
By causing the greatest racial divide since the segregation era
By reinstating the two-tiered justice system
By pushing medical procedures onto people that don't need them to feed the soulless medical complex
By destroying the businesses and property of the people they're supposedly campaigning for
By protecting criminals at the expense of innocent people

>>95916552
Anon, you unironically bought the elder vampire propaganda.

>>95900163
Frankly, considering your mention of Technomancy, I could see them doing away with the OG Technocracy entirely. To line it up with modern politics, even The Man has their outsiders. While true Nephandi are still very rare, nihilist cults become the primary antagonists. The Technocracy and Traditions decide to do away with their division in the face of this nihilism, and the range of Hong Kong/Worst Korea hypercapitalism and space socialism are just paradigms as long as they're ultimately idealistic. A good deal of the Technocracy, plus sizable minorities from the Hermetics, Choristers, Verbena, Chakravanti, and Etherites become part of these cults. The good Technocrats join with the good Etherites, Adepts, and Hermetics. It's just good mages versus bad mages, and magical style takes priority.

Tremerebros, how many of you happen to be plagued with an affinity for Vicissitude?
Asking for a friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDpxJHblYEU

>>95915953
Sometimes I just play a whole album or playlist. It's sometimes easier, but I like to put some specific musics for some moments and some characters has specific musics (i.e. their "theme songs").
Some enthusiastic players like to create playlists for their characters and it's a good way to insert musics as well in the game.

>Book set in Mexico
>Everything is run by the Sabot
Makes sense

What is Lilith in VtM, really? Is she even a vampire?

>>95917363
>What is Lilith in VtM, really? Is she even a vampire?

Deliberately left unclear except in her own Gehenna Scenario, and even then there's some things that aren't clear. In Fair Is Foul, if the PCs side with her they basically get to be a Vampire+ template, with fewer weaknesses, since Lilith wasn't hit with as many curses as Caine. which is dumb because Caine was cursed for rejecting God's forgiveness in exchange for the power of Lilith's blood. She's kind of his sire.

>>95916603
Why keep lying this hard?

>>95917363
They defined her in Gehenna as a proto-verbena archmage with a lot of mythic threads and innate static magic powers to draw from.
TL;DR: she's an old-ass mage from befor they invented pillars and foundation, let alone spheres.

>>95917363
She is basically a archmage with vampire like flaws/curses.

>>95917429
I've only gotten into WoD recently so I don't understand much of the really deep background of the history.

Does that mean that Lilith herself has embraced too? There's some things that seem to claim the Gangrel are traced back to her instead of Caine, wouldn't that make them a completely different type of vampire?

>>95917443
So she's not a vampire in some gamelines, but is in others?

>>95917463
>Does that mean that Lilith herself has embraced too?
No. She ate the fruit from the Tree of life in genesis and gain a vanilla form of living immortality. Some of the juice is mixed into her blood.
>There's some things that seem to claim the Gangrel are traced back to her instead of Caine, wouldn't that make them a completely different type of vampire?
No. The gangrel are full of shit. Their Ante is ennoa and she's well documented.
>So she's not a vampire in some gamelines, but is in others?
She's not a vampire in Any game line. She's her own thing in all WoD games.

>>95917486
So Bahari only worship her because of Lamia being her biological daughter, not her Childe, or is there more to it than that?

>>95917503
The bahari worship lilth because they think lilith is a messianic figure on the same level as Jesus/Buddha/etc. Lamia claiming to be her daughter is absolutely a lie for political clout.

>>95917463
>I've only gotten into WoD recently so I don't understand much of the really deep background of the history.

That's fine, and honestly even if you try to figure out the "deep lore", you'll probably find it's a contradictory mess. Personally, I hate "Lilith was a proto-mage" because it forces a cross-splat I don't want.

Reading the Book of Nod might be a good start if you want to know more about the common narrative around Lilith and Caine. I'll give you the TL;DR.
>Caine kills his brother, gets cursed by God. He can't die, and so he wanders the earth practically starving to death. At this point he has no powers.
>Runs into Lilith, who is living large in the middle of the harsh wilderness. She takes him in, gets him back to health, they fuck. Caine asks how she has all this, she explains it's because she has powers.
>Caine wants to have powers too, eventually she caves. Does a ritual and has him drink her blood.
>Caine finds himself visited by three archangels, each saying Abel and God have forgiven him. If he admits he did something wrong, and turns away from Lilith, he will be forgiven and will be able to go to heaven. Each time he declines, and each time he's hit with a curse. Sunlight, fire, must drink blood. A fourth says now he'll have to work for his redemption, but it's still possible.
>Caine awakens, and is now the "first" Vampire.

Lilith is a big ?. You could argue she is kind of like a vampire (cast out by god, unnatural powers), but not a Cainite.

>>95917522
>Personally, I hate "Lilith was a proto-mage" because it forces a cross-splat I don't want.
That's the easiest explanation but you can do whatever with her but most people won't really roll with other takes if they aren't relevant to the plot they are directly interacting.

>>95917363
To remind everyone that they don't actually know what's fucking going on in Vampire. No, it's not Caine being cursed by God. The book of Lilith confirms that God is just a lesser being of something else, ordered to go and create Earth and then get horny and then fuck off.

>>95917731
>The book of Lilith confirms
>confirms

The book of Lilith, the book of Nod, the Erciyes Fragments. There's not supposed to be an objective truth. That and the book of Lilith reads like a post break up angry journal entry.
>LUCIFER HAD A BIGGER DICK ANYWAY CAINE

>>95916587
>>95916603
>>95916616
You have more in common with your average autistic retard troon than you do with someone who has not once gone grocery shopping because they exist at a level of wealth that you cannot begin to imagine. You are at war with yourself because you cannot begin to comprehend how cucked you are. You are too scared to take action against your actual enemies and so you will continue to larp how cool and badass you are while actually just being terminally online. Anyway, this is what vampire is about.

>>95917746
Sure, but Exalted is the actual truth behind WoD.

>>95917783
Maybe at your table, nerd.

>>95917775
I'm only replying to you because I don't want to go up half the thread to quote everyone

Can all you /pol/fags shut the hell up? You do this on a bi-weekly basis, and inevitably your posts get deleted when a janny decides you've crossed the off-topic line. Neither of you are going to convince the other of your retarded worldviews and frankly, who actually gives a shit what the politics of the developers was?

Death of the Author. The game is about what you want it to be about.

>new player wants to join my Hunter: The Vigil campaign, his RPG jumping on point was call of cthulhu
>alright, coc is rad, and I've been needing a reason to start brainstorming my second investigation
>"Hey, before we start, any chance you could run like...a oneshot so I can get used to the rules?"

Weird question, has anyone tried to convert the one-shots from call of cthulhu into hunter the vigil? I can't imagine it would be TOO difficult, just adjusting rolls.

also, to answer OP >>95895314 (OP)
one of my biggest issues with Vampire: The Masquerade is how the devs clearly want you to empathize with the anarchs over the camarilla.

>>95917964
same anon here:
alternatively, are there any decent htv oneshots available online? I just want to run something quick and easy to ease him into the campaign. I just immediately thought of coc since there's a lot of great one-shots that are designed for 1-2 players.

>>95917964
>>95917983
>has anyone tried to convert the one-shots from call of cthulhu into hunter the vigil?
I have not.
>alternatively, are there any decent htv oneshots available online?
Unfortunately nWoD is rather light on premades, but there are a few. Check splat neutral blue books, there's a few in there I believe.

Suggestion: Make the one-shot a sort of prologue for his character. It's a bit more work on your end now but could make introducing his character into the cell less of a headache. Not to mention if he finds anything he doesn't like about his build, he can amend it before the character sees proper play.

>>95918007
well, introducing him to the cell is actually fairly simple, since the initial hook for the cell coming together was them receiving a mysterious message from a group sending them to the location of the investigation. My plan is that it's a compact under a larger conspiracy in the catholic church...but given their foe in part 1 was a ghoul Slasher, and they uncovered a whole other race of non-humans during the investigation(who are not outwardly hostile), it's just a matter of 'after hearing what they just killed, they sent another hopeful'

That is a good idea though. He already pitched his character to me, and I was planning on writing out a quick backstory for him in session 1 for him to play through, same as I did the other members of the cell.

>>95917821
Politics is relevant to WoD anon. It's a Punk setting and various political ideas competing with each other within it are the central themes of most of the games.
Besides, you might not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in You. It's the reason some much bullshit in the gaming industry has happened. You cannot stay out of it and hope everything will blow over without affecting you, it will come for You and the things you love.
Not that you have to pick one of two sides like americans like to push, there are like a million, but you do need to argue for what you believe in at some point. Otherwise the retards are gonna roll right over you and make the thing you like in their image.

>>95917964
>The Masquerade is how the devs clearly want you to empathize with the anarchs over the camarilla.
The problem is that they don't give you a good reason to give a shit about them. Sure, they are laxer about most of the rules at the cost of not actually doing shit in most cases. So why bother with them outside newbie sandboxes?

>>95917746
>LUCIFER HAD A BIGGER DICK ANYWAY CAINE
Lilith still not sorry that she tried to bone her ex's son, who might technically be her nephew.

>>95918025
I'm plenty interested in politics. I am not interested in reading two retards fight about politics through the lens of a tabletop game.

You want my honest opinion? Punk is a fake movement in the first place so all its "themes" are bullshit. Everything substantive in the official material comes from something that predates that piss-stain of a counter-culture. More often than not WoD makes "the man" far more interesting and I really couldn't care less what the authors believed in their own lives. It's my game, tabletop is inherently transformative.

>>95917775
Oh, this was about trannies
Nevermind, I thought we were rping about actual wod lore that isn't lazily transplanted from irl with no concern for realistic non-fetishistic implications

>>95918072
>I am not interested in reading two retards fight about politics through the lens of a tabletop game.
Then don't read their posts or reply to them. You do realize you're feeding into their egotistical need for attention by engaging right? Let them burn themselves out like a lit match and go about your day.
Unless of course you yourself have an egotistical need for attention and are trying to find a flimsy excuse to make yourself feel superior. In which case go ham and join the retard chorus.

>>95918024
>foe in part 1 was a ghoul Slasher
Oh hey it's you, good to hear your game is still running.

>>95918067
>Lilith still not sorry that she tried to bone her ex's son, who might technically be her nephew.

Well yeah, that bitch is nasty. Main reason I really dislike Fair is Foul is how much of a pedestal she gets put on. Her and Caine are two sides of the same coin. Bad people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

>>95918091
>lazily transplanted from irl with no concern for realistic non-fetishistic implications
tfw irl isn't is so fucked it stopped being realistic...

>>95918094
>your game is still running
I haven't done anything with it since then. Two of the players are running a dnd campaign and horror on the orient express with the other playing in them(they live in the same town and I don't), so they haven't been available to play anything else, but in the next few months that might be changing.

right now I'm kind of struggling for anything except ideas for session 1, and maybe have the vamp baron having at least 1 ghoul in the local police office, that they can sic on the party?

>>95918092
>Then don't read their posts or reply to them.

I'm pretty sure it's the same two people that have been doing this on and off for months. They aren't going to stop unless they get banned.

>>95918094
>Fair is Foul
On a side note: One of the things that was running through my head and won't go away is that Lilith is basically an infinite fountain of Tree-of-Life juice.
Doesn't that mean a gypsy character drink her blood, someone who in WoD has Tree-of-Knowledge juice in their bloodline, then they'd become a divine being as per the book of genesis?

>>95918108
>I'm pretty sure it's the same two people
If only it were so easy. Anon, at some point you're going to have to let go of the delusion that retards are a small minority. It isn't healthy.

>>95918106
Personally I like to have my Hunter games be a mix of main plot (in your case I assume that is currently this Baron) and MOTW stuff (1-3 session hunts with other monsters to keep things interesting).

Ghoul cops can work, although in my experience the police can be a major pain in the ass on their own. I've been playing in a Hunter game of my own recently and the Sheriff has been infuriating with how good he is at his job... only concerning mundane crime. He's clueless about any of the supernatural disappearances or killings. Fortunately we have an ally and fellow Hunter as one of his deputies.

If this vampire is a baron, then do they have any subservient vampires? Or is this just a title they've given themselves to feel important? If so, you could have them encounter and fight a younger, weaker vampire to cut their teeth on. Lets them learn in character how to fight vampires and lets you gauge how well your overarching antagonist would hold up against them. Besides that... your setting is coastal, right? You could have them hunt Sirens, gives them a good environmental challenge and enemy that relies on mind-control rather than physical prowess. Perhaps hunt some sort of sea monster via boat. Or perhaps someone is smuggling cursed objects into the country.

>>95918156
right now, the hook is that three people
- a postgrad that read a few too many anne rice novels, who got attacked by a vamp that got killed mid-feed, and decided to do what she had to to protect her little sister
- a protestant pastor who encountered an actual demon with his priest friend, they survived, and the priest was instructed by his bishop to lie to the cops. He decided to infiltrate the catholic church to find out how they handle demons
-a Slasher who accidentally picked a werewolf as his first victim, bludgeoned her to death mid-transformation, and upon realizing there was no news about his killing, he realized if he targeted monsters, he could stay under the radar (we talked out ways to balance it, so he doesn't have any Dark Gifts, and isn't technically a slasher per game mechanics, but he has some slasher skills. If he takes an innocent life, he'll become a Slasher proper and become an NPC)

They're sent by the aforementioned mysterious organization to a town to investigate a strange death. During the investigation, they found out that several people in town have been killed, there's a cult of non-humans who keep to themselves, and all but the initial hook were members of the cult(who are in reality not! Deep ones).

The party eventually stumbled onto the killer, who had a weird mask and a special silver claw...and then the party slasher got a lucky series of crits and killed the slasher before I could actually lay out the clues that he was serving a vampire in the area.

At this point, they know the cult is not human, but aren't actively seeking to hurt people. They just live in the one town and want to be left the fuck alone...but also, the slasher in the party is a wild card and just saw that when the cult members are killed, they leave no corpse behind. I had to hamfist in that the people who sent them there knew there was a vampire in the area thanks to the lucky crits, so they knew there's a vampire too.

>>95917344
Honestly this country would be in a better spot if the Sabbat ran it. They have better chances for upper mobility.

>>95918184
as for the baron, it was a small reference to when myself and the slasher played in a VTM campaign run by the priest. We were cammys and at the end, we started picking a fight with the local anarchs in Pittsburgh. This was meant to be a sequel campaign where the anarchs ran off like little bitches, so the vamp(a toreador) is planning to establish a new barony in this little town on the coast of Lake Huron...and is murdering the not!deep ones to have the idyllic little town to herself.

The party never really got a chance to learn anything about the slasher, but he was a local whose family and farm died and was destroyed in a storm the previous year and drowned himself in booze, making him a fantastic target for a manipulative vamp who wants to make sure the area stays beautiful.

>>95907092
>but he would be forced to alter himself to fit the preferences of whatever guest he was meeting with
The Trannymaker virus is spreading.

>>95918245
Not really, we haven't seen that guy in a while.

>>95917775
That’s cool and all but I don’t like either of those losers and the crazy woke autist is way more likely to actually annoy and interact with me. You really fail to understand that most people understand this, and it’s a dogshit reason as to why anyone would want to agree with you. I have more in common with a woke autist than a dog, too, but I’d rather spend time with a dog. They’re not fucking annoying like you guys are. Holy shit. Shut the fuck up.

Umm... Sorcery bros, he's exposing our secrets. We have to do something.

>>95918667
>40 billion minutes long
Just tell which alchemist he named.

>>95919362
I skimmed through it, but it's about Pietro d'Abano and the video is mostly discussing Astral Necromancy.

>TRVE Gangrel Embraces are basically rape
Who wrote this shit?

>>95919395
>The general opinion of almost all authors is, that he was the greatest magician of his time; that by means of seven spirits, familiar, which he kept enclosed in crystal, he had acquired the knowledge of the seven liberal arts, and that he had the art of causing the money he had made use of to return again into his pocket.
Sounds like a full blown Mage making his own fetishes to me, rather than a Sorceror. Woofs probably wouldn't be happy about it though.

>>95919403
I mean barring rare edge cases like the Baali giving you a choice in the matter, I'd argue that most embraces can be interpreted as rape at worst and grooming at best.

>>95919395
> Astral Necromancy
What’s that? The equivalent of the astral adept merit in the real world?

>>95919460
It's basically summoning Angels/famous historical figures via astronomical/astrological correspondences or techniques to do magic with or learn forbidden lore. Firmly in the Hermetic paradigm.

>>95919494
>based tremere neonates summoning Cleopatra for some sexy time

>>95918667
>Channel about magic
>Look inside
>Chorister
Dammit, every time with these people.

Quick question before the thread goes. Is there any reason to actually use bow and arrows? They seem to be worse than guns in every way. If they are that's fine, i'm just wondering if there is a hidden advantage.

>>95919796
Don't they scale off of Strength like Melee weapons?

>>95919814
You'd think so, but no. The only one that does that is thrown weapons I believe. They have a set damage like firearms

>>95919796
Maybe you want to kill someone from a distance without everyone in hundreds of meters knowing it?

>>95919814
>>95919852
You're both correct. Normally they don't scale with str... except in World of Darkness Combat (on the right of pic related is the weapon table from that book)

>>95919425
>I'd argue that most embraces can be interpreted as rape at worst and grooming at best.
They might be closer to kidnapping, cult recruitment or military conscription.

>>95919796
you can shoot a stake at a vampire to incapacitate them from a distance

>>95919999
If you are a really good shot. The only other advantage of bows are using bane arrows but that's niche enough I don't think it's worth considering outside mage, werewolf or maybe hunters.

>>95919425
Why wouldn't ever vampire give their childe a choice in the matter? If you embrace people who don't want it they become a threat to you and the entire masquerade.

>>95919927
In that case you are still better off with a fancy gun with a silencer rather than a bow in most cases. Depends on how anal your ST is about it.

>>95920042
Silencers are movie shit, they aren't actually real. Suppressors make guns less loud but they're still loud.

>>95920048
Like I said, depends on how anal your ST is about it. Some people try to paint a fairly realistic picture while others just use movie logic.

>>95919745
When was the last time you read someone's schizophrenic ramblings?

>>95919796
bow and arrows aren't as illegal as guns and are quite likely far easier to get your hands on than firearms depending on where the chronicle takes place.

like I am pretty sure you can just buy them legally with no documentation almost anywhere in the world

>>95920126
Or make them out of truck suspensions and bingo cord when you you have superhuman strength.

>walk outside carrying a rifle
>cops get called on you
>walk outside carrying a bow dressed like an elf
>people just think you are some nerd and mostly ignore you

>>95920037
The Shaft of Belated Quiescence ritual lets you enchant a stake so if it even deals 1 damage past soak anywhere, it'll eventually stake the target (vampire or not)'s heart unless they get to a doctor that beats a high DV.

>>95916677
This is actually a cool concept, and one I know Paradox won't use or will completely ruin if they ever try that on M5

>>95919419
Fetish creation is a numina path for shaman sorcerers.

>>95920696
Alchemists and shamans are truly a step above other sorcerers.

>>95920835
Alchemy is a whole order of magnitude above other paths. You can buff stats, copy other splat powers, extend your lifespan and if you're really really good pull a Tremere, awaken or turn yourself into a fera without having to skin 5 woofs.

Chronicles of Fagness

>>95920835
Enchantment's the same way.
You can copy other splat by level 4, add dice to any ability And attribute(meaning you can double up), subtract successes from opposed rolls, and as per The Spirit Ways, you can stack it with alchemy and fetishism to make enchanted items of alchemical materials that're Also fetishes.
Sorcerers are a shit ton more powerful than they're given credit for.

>>95920696
Shamans, like mages, aren't limited in how many fetishes they can have as the garou are. They can be retardedly powerful

>>95921029
Which is odd, when you think about it. Shouldn't the woofs have greater access to fetishes than human shamans (both sleeper and awakened ones) thanks to all the ancients pacts they have with almost all types of spirits?

>>95921052
They technically do. Mages and shamans need to perform chinimage each and every time they activate a fetish unless they make the spirit within it into an ally. Woof can pick up and use any fetish they want as long as it doesn't put them over their limit, even one made by mages.

>>95921008
>Enchantment's the same way.
This isn't even the best part. Enchantment, like Wonders, doesn't have the "You can't enchant an enchanted item" that other static item crafting abilities like DtF do. An enchanter can can keep enchanting the same magic hat as much as they want until it's almost a sorcerer in its own right.

imagine how much it must suck when you awaken and can't use your 6 dots of sorcery anymore, literal clown world where the "power up" is the equivalent of "improving" a runners performance by chopping off his legs.

like what the actual fuck is the avatars problem why can't it just let you use sorcery?

>>95921302
Just say “fuck the writers” and let players mix splats as God intended (as long as you don’t mix major splats with each other).

>>95921302
You do convert half the xp worth of your paths and rituals into appropriate spheres so there is that.

>>95921302
I presume it's because sorcery is intended to be watered down awakened magic, where the trade off for not dealing with paradox is lacking in flexibility. So using both seems redundant

That being said, it is retarded that a high level sorcerer gets knocked down to the same level of a newly awakened human who never interacted with the supernatural before, you should at least start with a higher arete and spheres than a typical newly made mage character

>>95919745
He claims to be a materialist atheist.
He's not a chorister. He's an arcanum academic at most.

>>95921433
Sphere are gated behind arete, which is gated behind seekings.
You literally have the knowledge of an archmage trapped in the body of an apprentice too weak to use your most basic spells.

>>95920041
Because unless you have dominate at a high enough level to erase the QRD if they say no, you have to kill the person you just told all about vampire society.

Also, if you talk it up, convince them to become a vampire, and then they hate it they'll still be resentful anyway. Better to do it and then convince them it's good once they can't go back. I'm sure some sires ask things like "want to live forever?" Or "would you like to join a very exclusive club?" But that's hardly informed consent being given by the embracee.

>>95919745
Most Mage factions and all IRL magic is based on religion anon The Hermetics are literally practitioners of hermetic christianity.
The only exception to this is technocratic and former technocratic factions(etherites/virtual adepts).

was reading the bastet book and got to the Qualmi and how come these supposed Lynxes only inhabit 1/3rd of the area that lynxes actually live in? by all means if they really are werelynxes they should be in the entire Taiga not just the canadian one

>>95921540
>sorcery is intended to be watered down awakened magic
It isn't though. That was a Unreliable-Narrator take from revised since they merge WoD: Sorcerer and Ascensions Right Hand in Sorcerer Revised.
Personally, I look at revised sorcerers as what happens when classic WoD sorcerers get a power boost from combining the 5-dot static magic paths with the innate ability of all humans to use Mage rotes. Non-tradition/Non-technocrat sorcerers in VtM, WtA, WtO, and DHX still use the 1-5 dot paths and have complete immunity to sleeper attention. Sorcerers that tie themselve to a Mage faction get a massive power boost, but at the cost of now becoming unable to cast obvious spells in public or it'll fail.

>>95921836
>how come these supposed Lynxes only inhabit 1/3rd of the area that lynxes actually live in?
Why are kistune only inhabit asia or nuwasha only inhabit australia/native-america when foxes and coyote are more successful than wolves globally? Same answer, because the writers are idiots.

>>95921008
I looked through the Quick and the Dead, WoD: Sorcerer, and Sorcerer Revised. Far as I can tell, there's no written way for unawakened Shamans to make fetishes.

>>95921836
Just having the linxes is not enough. They also need insemination from mages to reproduce.

>>95922103
Dreamspeakers tradition book, both original and revised, and the Spirit Ways. Both are MtA books.

So I read herm trade books and have a question... If the hermetic masters KNOW that it is their will that creates magic, and all this occultism is just tinsel and ALL TRADITIONS KNOW WHAT CONSENSUS IS and that people's beliefs predetermine reality, then why don't the Traditions actually cultivate solipsism and wish-making as basic paradigms in their members? Or don't they themselves switch to them, if they understand how everything works, especially the archmages, for whom this is literally written in the sixth point of arete

>>95922137
I still can't get over how the garou decided it would be a good idea to try genociding both the eager sex-slave race(bastet) And the eugenic breeding specialist race(apis), but are now surprised they're now dying out do to infertility. Garou retardation is a sight to behold.

>>95922314
The population of other fera does not affect the population of garou in any way.

>>95922314
The bastet wanted big mage cock, so the dogs got butthurt.

>>95922299
for the hermetics part of it is "i had suffer through this and look how great i am not in spite of it but because of it!" and part of it is how easy their ways makes it to awaken mages in comparison to other traditions and crafts

>>95922299
Because free-form paradigms like mages used before the pillar system have Serious problems. Current mage paradigms either pull on mythic threads or actual science to prop themselves up in a magic-hostile world.
The spheres themselves are also a paradigm. The first mages only had Arete and the things they could/could-not do were unpredictable. Pillars/foundation allowed them to create teachable magic practices, but limited the magic a paradigm could perform. The spheres practice was created by the hermetics as a system for practicing Any magic like the first mages, while still being able to standardize it and bind it to mythic threads that can survive the alteration of magic by the order of reason.
Paradigms are a crutch so magic can still function.

>>95922380
Was there a actually family in the setting consisting of a mage X shapeshifter? Because I remember how the spider girl date with a vampire for a schememove. Is there something similar with woofs and cats?

>>95922431
>family
Nah, shapeshifters are for casual sex only.

>hey guys let's all sacrifice our potential omnipotence in exchange for extremely conditional immortality and a laundry list of weaknesses, i'd rather be a big fish in a small pond than a fucking demi-god
Why aren't the Tremere more of a laughing stock for throwing their magehood and avatars in the bin?

>>95922376
Bastet have most of the gifts that allow a fera to repopulate quickly. Apis had all the gifts that influenced whether or not a a particular would breed true and produce a fera.
The population of these two fera, and whether or not they like the garou, directly impacts how well the garou can breed.

>>95922431
there is a british sorcerer faction in the sorcerer book of people with kinfolk and fae blood members who also have some awakened members and specialized in shapeshift magic, but they are dying out because well they are only allowing natives with fera and fae blood who can also care to do sorcery

The division between awakened mages and sorcerers is stupid

>>95922458
because their plot armor is so thicc that they keep clowning on mages with a 100% success rate

>>95922458
Everyone hates vampires, and all vampires hate the Tremere. Blood magic, their primary trick? Assamites did it first, oh and the Tzimisce, and apparently the Anarchs have magic too now!

On a sheer technicality, mages aren't immortal under the current paradigm, they live a long time, but they can and do die. Additionally, a Tremere doesn't suffer from paradox, which is their one advantage.

>>95922458
Because the order of hermes was so incompetent that they lost the war against the tremere vampires. This was back in a day when conjuring sunlight was easy for the average hermetic by the way...

>>95922498
So the hermetics were retarded, but that doesn't change the fact that the Tremere were retarded too for making such a stupid decision in the first place.

>>95922429
This would be a good answer if solipsism and wishworking were not the paradigms offered to orphans, which, apart from the rarity of occurrence, in principle do not bear any disadvantages in relation to other paradigms.

>>95922431
A couple of woof books mention that some dreamspeakers and verbena mages are kinfolk and even has a merit for playing as a supernatural kin, but nothing more specific

>>95922549
Honestly, the lore makes it clear that orphans shouldn't have the benefit of spheres in the first place, but it was written After Mage 1e and the writers were too lazy to update. They should be operating by the "Arete Only" mechanics of first mages, with all the drawbacks of inherent unpredictability and extra-intense paradox in the modern age.

>>95922540
His only real mistake was deciding to eat Saulot. As a result, he ended up with power side, and the mages are in total shit.

>>95922431
The Fenian are a sorcerers group of fianna kinfolk with fae blood who can trace their bloodline back to the founders of the group, but they Suck. who wants to play a sorcerer with two expensive merits (that also cancel each other out) that also have to take a clan like weakness (every member has a geas)

>>95922592
>His only real mistake was deciding to do the one thing that allowed them to escape from extermination
If it wasn't for eating Saulot, they would've all remained high generation fuckboys and gotten crushed by the rest of the clans.

>>95922549
Talking of Orphans, has anyone here played an Orphan with blended technique? Sounds pretty fun.

>>95922556
This is different, the result of the kinfolk awakening. Technically, this could happen to a revenant. I am talking about a specific pair of a mage/sorcerer and a shapeshifter.

>>95921302
reminder that path exp also translated into the exp of a single sphere even if the path needed several spheres to be replicated

>>95922594
WoD had a really weird fixation with muh celts.

>>95922640
*Had.
WoD5 did a 180 and is trying to bury any references to celtic culture for some reason. Wtf is it with the modern industries and trying to erase red-heads in particular?

>>95922640
yeah they have what the majority of the ctd splat, a tribe, the majority of a tradition, a bloodline and now these guys. Am i missing someone?

>>95922661
remember anon fianna is just a word!

>>95922640
A combination of a very American fixation with bygone European heritage and a very American fixation with disdain for modern Europe, as well as the very 90s adoration of the noble savage trope.

>>95921008
>add dice to any ability And attribute(meaning you can double up), subtract successes from opposed rolls,
I never fucking noticed this. A starting enchanter could enchant a few items, add +5 dice & +4 successes to dex, +5 dice & +4 successes to firearms, -4 successes from opponents soak, etc, and shit all over methusela with basic guns. WTF?

>>95922640
Literally the influence of generations of Irish immigrants

>>95922661
>Wtf is it with the modern industries and trying to erase red-heads in particular?
Current era IDPOL is trying to erase the fact that Irish, Italian, Polish, etc, people used to be in the same boat as the "muh skin color" crowd.
It's inconvenient for the current narrative if you can't paint all white people as universally/majority evil.
This is also why Liberia isn't talked about when schools go over abolition. Reparations having already been handed out to the actual slave baack in the day kills the argument for current-day reparations.

>>95922614
>played an Orphan with blended technique
Not an orphan, but played as etherite who performed hermetic magic with scientific instruments. Was inspired by the weirdos from miskatonic university for the basis

>>95922299
why can't you just carve a Michelangelo out of marble right now? because you don't actually know *how* to direct your will through your hands to shape the marble. that is why the hermetics still need their rituals and why they are so precise! because think about it, you *do* have the ability to make it Michelangelo if you followed some very exact instructions to the letter and had the discipline not to rush or disregard them. this is why they call it Arete, excellence, because it shows how much you still rely on those instructions.

a sorceror is a slave to the instructions, a sleeper doesn't even have access to them, at low arete you can maybe make the arm or the leg without instructions, and at high arete you don't even need instructions anymore

>>95918209
>Lake Huron

I vaguely recall there being some good unsolved mysteries around the great lakes. Could find some inspiration there.

>>95920041
You forget not everyone embraces to make childer. Some do it for shits and giggles, like how many nosferatu specifically target beautiful people in an act of spite.

How common are Hallows supposed to be in awakening? Specially low rated ones.
Common enough that a 1 dot hallow would be neglected by most mages?

>>95923299
>the origin story of most anons

>>95922299
Just knowing isn't enough. Actually believing it is the important thing and even with belief, you need to advance through that system you believe in.
Like, go have your "We are gods" or "World's a Stage" paradigm, believe in it. You still need to advance through that paradigm before you can become a Master Mage and Archmage.

>>95921540
Arete maybe, spheres no. It's an awakening to your true self, beyond all imagination. You might have a more flexible mind, but magick is something radically new for a sorcerer.

>>95923630
Converting your Path xp to pool you can spend on Spheres is part of the actual rules anon.
As >>95922429 explained, spheres are a hermetic paradigm designed to let awakened magic survive in the modern era. Arete is the only real enlightenment stat. Paths converting to Arete would make zero sense.

>>95919995
Since been succed gives sexual pleasure I’d add rape to that

>>95922275
>it's real
Sorcerers are busted. Multisplat Lhiannan static shamans should have conquered Ireland.

>>95905360
why does he speak like renegade is going to put him down or sum sh
he is no hero

>>95922275
>It costs a permanent willpower and a source of tass for a sorcerer to make a fetish or awaken an item
Not a small investment. It'll be a lot of time and xp before a sorcerer can build a sizable collection.

New thread:
>>95924862