Thread 95961336

Has anyone here played the played the old world rpg?

I was going to pre order but now I am skeptical. Its important to me that they get the atmosphere and lore right.

I am skeptical because of the female bretonian knight on the cover. also, no lance. also, wearing green? interesting.

Curious if anyone here has thoughts and if they played this.

>also the female slayer in the videos I saw

i know nothing about warhammer.
The game looks decent from skimming the PDF. My group will be giving it a play once the GM guide pdf drops next month

>>95961336 (OP)
There are female slayer pregens in WFRP 1E.
But they were just part of the humorous tone.

>>95961336 (OP)
Half the empire characters are black for no reason in this books art. I am positive that it won’t actually be faithful to the setting. It’s another DEI ridden corposlop production.

>>95961336 (OP)
What about the rules? How does it compare to Warhammer Fantasy 4ex8pw0?

>>95961540
It's a light and stripped down version of WFRP. That applies to basically any version of it, it's just less stuff going on. Less numbers, less rules, less careers, less spells, etc. Careers are just starting packages and some stat discounts too and the game is otherwise classless.

>>95961524
Shut the fuck up. No one cares about your culture war bullshit. We just want to play games and talk about them here.

>>95961599
NTA, people bitching about outside forces manipulating their hobby should be expected.
If the inclusion of different elements do not matter in the final product then the exclusion of those elements also shouldn't matter. It must also be questioned why those elements were included in the first place. Usually an attempt to bring in an uninterested audience, however, that audience is uninterested and catering to that audience will not suddenly make them interested.

To be more on point to your post though. Anon didn't want to be in the culture war bullshit either, that bullshit arrived in his house and he wants it to go back outside.

>>95961599
>No one cares about your culture war bullshit
It seems that Cubicle 7 cares very much about it looking at that cover.

>>95961650
They aren't manipulating the hobby though. You don't have to make your personal games look like the official art. If you don't want black characters in your games, you are absolutely free to do that. The official artwork doesn't mean shit, so there is literally no reason to get upset about it.

>>95961599
I care about the "culture war" insofar that I dont want it in warhammer and in my opinion there is a correct way to play warhammer. whereas in dnd i dont care, you can get past that.

A black person existing is not political

>>95961336 (OP)
>I am skeptical because of the female bretonian knight on the cover
Yeah, I'm not getting it for that reason. Seems unlikely that it'll be any better than WFRP so I don't see why I'd waste my time getting my group to learn a whole new system.

>>95961668
>The official artwork doesn't mean shit, so there is literally no reason to get upset about it.
Tell that to people bitching about AI art in sourcebooks

>>95961803
Stop, you aren't going to convince someone like him they are wrong.
Official artwork could be my little pony characters ripping lines of cocaine off the ass of Bart Simpson for a chapter discussing combat and they will insist that since you don't need to include that in your game it's fine for it to be in your rulebook.

>>95961752
black people being everywhere in a location modelled after the HRE is very weird anon
It's not like it has good justification in the lore

>>95962376
>Elves? Fine.
>Dwarves? Fine.
>Minotaurs? Fine.
>Orges? Fine
>Orcs? Fine.
>Mutants? Fine.
>Beastmen? Fine.
>Skaven? Fine.
>Chaos Gods? Fine.
>Pagan Pantheon? Fine.
>Winds of Magic? Fine
>Giant exploded space gate spewing chaos in the north pole? Fine.
>Anachronistic France and Britain? Fine.
>Lizard People South America? Fine.
>Black people? wElL iTs BaSeD oN ThE hOlY rOmAn EmPiRe It DoEsN't MaKe AnY sEnSe!?!

>>95962395
Anon please you're doing the pic related meme.

>>95962395
all justified within the setting, except black people, I wouldn't mind it if the book or the art showed it as foreign traders coming, but they aren't presented as that.
If we are talking about racial diversity in the Empire, the question does need to be raised as to why there are no Asian-looking people.
We know from in-universe sources and GW models that many people in Ostland and Kislev look like they descended from the Asian steppe, but they very rarely show up in the art, way less than random integrated Black people that show up even though they have a much bigger justification for it.

>>95961599
>do not question, just consume product
Do a flip, faggot.

>>95961524
>>95962419
>>95962402
>>95962431

all of you are severely retarded, just admit you're a sexist and racist like a normal person, and stop dancing around it like a faggots. Or shut the fuck up and let us play our games without you drooling all over them.

>>95962402
>>95962419
Even aside from the fact that this isn't historical Europe, you guys realize that there were Dark Skinned people in Europe in the middle ages, right? You get that the Moors were a thing?

>>95962395
Did they flesh out way more intereaction between the empire and the southlands? Did they explain how you specifically got black humans from that area accepted as normal into the empire and not say Tileans or humans from Araby who are closer? Is there firm contact between the Empire and the Lizardmen of the Southlands or did they just seamlessly integrate the humans and ignore the lizards?
Most of the things you mention are also met with distrust (elves, ogres), hostility (orcs, chaos), or disbelief and denial (skaven). The problem isn't black people existing, it's presenting them as fully integrated into the empire without explaining how or when that happened, and without including the racism wfrp was steeped in for elves and halflings etc in the older versions of the game.
Having the occasional black character, like for example Norscans or Estalians were in the old books would have been better. No one complained about a single Norse berserker career, but putting red beards and horned helmets on every other citizen in every artwork would also have been met with complaints.
>>95962402
Spot on

>>95962472
>You get that the Moors were a thing?
Moor is a pretty broad term and is more associated with the individual being a Muslim from Morocco or the Iberian Caliphate than having to do with the person's skin colour.

>>95962472
Yeah, Moors were dark skinned north Africans. Predominately Muslims. Shoving sub-Saharan black people into that mix is "we wuz kangz" tier bullshit.

>>95962510
A million times this.
If they justified it somehow, I'd be much happier. Hell, I'd feel better about it if they depicted the black characters as Marienburgers. Marienburg is legitimately cosmopolitan.
But as it is, they're completely incongruous. Full sub-saharan africans integrated fully into Imperial culture in the middle of the Empire.
How much information is there about Southlanders? There's like two tribe names at the edges of the map. Just write something about a Southlander community somewhere, for fuck's sake.

>>95961336 (OP)
>it's in preorder
>HAS ANYONE PLAYED IT?!

>>95963200
It being on pre-order does mean the PDF is available, at least for the player guide.
So in theory, someone could have had a chance to play with the system at this point, but considering everything omitted from this first book, I doubt it

>>95962419
But joggers are justified. See the official artwork. Just admit you're a small minded emotional faggot.

>>95961336 (OP)
>Retarded incel comment
Oh no! A girl on the cover! Wearing GREEN no less! Cooties!

>>95961599
This will never be your board, child molester.
>>95961653
Kinda glad Cubicle 7 lost the Lord of the Rings rights at this point. TOR dodged a bullet.

>>95962465
Those are our games that you've been trying to steal because your kind can only destroy.

>>95961336 (OP)
I had a female slayer NPC I didn't get to use who took the oath because she found out after a very expensive and showy marriage to a prominent and honorable dwarf that she was sterile and could never have children.

It can't possibly be good, since it bends the knee to 8e/ET sloplore. Of course, the forced inclusiveness is just further insult. Say, where are all the black fellas in the new Cathay art and minis? Mysteriously missing!

>>95961668
>The official artwork doesn't mean shit, so there is literally no reason to get upset about it.
You are deliberately ignorant or just shitposting.

>>95962472
Moors didn't make up 75% of Renaissance Germany.

>>95964079
Yeah, really weird how the only homogenous human faction so far in terms of ethnicities is the one based on China. That's how you know all the DEI slop they're doing isn't even them genuinely believing in it, it's all for the almighty dollar.

>Look chuds! The empire is so stupid and weird their borders have two tiny watchtowers on them with big cannons pointed at each other! Ahahahaha! Lol! That's funny! Look how dumb they are! It's so funny and weird! Isn't it funny???
One of many, many reasons I despise Warhammer Fantasy like you wouldn't believe. This penguin of doom holds up spork bullshit should've stayed buried.

>>95964416
You're special kind of stupid, huh

>>95964405
>Moors didn't make up 75% of Renaissance Germany.
Muh Nazis! Stopz DEI wokeness frum replacin' muh Nazis!

>>95964536
>eat your reddit fantasy slop and be pleased about it

>>95961336 (OP)
Right now, some people are doing a live stream of it right now, outside of the players being intolerable, but the system itself seems fine if redundant, since WFRP exists
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE8Bo_mMTzw

>>95964675
>bluesky
Warhammer really is Reddit, huh

>>95964416
You should see the shit they do on the Pakistan-Indian border. Reality doesn't need excuses to be retarded.

I actually like that detail. I didn't look too closely at the image before.

>>95961552
>Less
Fewer

>>95964013
>Those are our games
Lol, lmao even. It's genuinely pathetic that some basement dwellers actually think this.

We're not all equal after all, some have sensitivity teams working for them

>>95965234
>asia has literally dozens of ethnicities, far more ethnic variation than europe or north america
>the europe/north america section has everyone being nonwhite while everyone in the asia section has the exact same "official" chinese person look
It's also interesting how to them "diverse" racial representation is "if it's in a western setting, make everyone black/hispanic and no one white/asian"

>>95965342
You are just now learning that diversity means less white people?

>>95964013
It's your game? How many shares in GW do you own?

>>95961336 (OP)
Get it "free" online.
Problem solved!

>>95964416
Take out all the fake diversity and lol so epic randumb grimdark skulls everywhere and this would actually be a really good piece.

>>95965849
And to be honest even the "grimdark" shit here is nowhere near as bad as WFRP 4e. The skulls are actually really subdued.

>>95965874
I wonder if this is a directive from GW or if this is Irish revenge on the British.

>>95961524
This. Go play 2e if you want campy schizo-lore sovl with proper grimdark Bretonnia and no niggers or women knights. Barony of the Damned is quite good.

>>95965902
>britain and ireland are both approx 86% white, over 90% white and asian combined
>all fantasy game art from these countries is approx 90% nonwhite, mostly black
Bongs are weird.

>>95965954
Yeah anglo black worship seeping into all their media is really disturbing.

>>95965976
They always claim it's "to reflect our modern society" when black people are 1% of Ireland and 3% of Britain's populations. Even in the US they're only ~%14. Like, I've got no issue with black people in fantasy, but it's the fact they take settings based on history and then claim they're actually being accurate, when they aren't at all. Especially true of historical Europe where there was even LESS ethnic diversity.

>>95966109
It has to do with UK companies falling lockstep into American HR/diversity rules so in the UK this means Black people are overrepresented

>>95965874
I think it might be a conscious decision. The tone of the game is supposed to feel slightly less gritty and grimy than WFRP. The idea is that, though troubles abound, the Old World is experiencing an era of relative peace that won't be ended until the Great War kicks off a few years into the future. It's not a time of total upheaval like in the early 26th century when WFRP is set.

>>95966343
>the Old World is experiencing an era of relative peace that won't be ended until the Great War kicks off a few years into the future.
that could have worked if C7 didn't choose the middle of the Empire as their main setting for this RPG since the Empire is still currently in the middle of a Civil War that's gone on for a 1000 years which little hope of it ending till Magnus unites it just in time for the Great War.
Really, the Empire should feel more grim and Hopeless than it does in WFRP, which is a time of general peace and complacency within the Empire, at least when 1st and 4th are set.

>>95962376
Why is this picture so jarring? Why the fuck is everyone just hanging outside like it isn't pouring rain? Fucking negress on the left just sitting outside eating cheese? Back right you got an elf buying bread from some dumb bitch in the pouring rain? What the fuck is going on here?

>>95966365
It's set in the middle of Talabecland. There's a city and then there's a thousand miles of near impassable woods in every direction. People are fighting over logging cabins and henhouses.

>>95966398
It feels like it's supposed to be a scene after rain, but they added rainfall on top after finishing the rest of the picture. Everything is out in the rain, but only the cobblestones look wet.

>>95966179
We have regrettably chosen to import the US's particular brand of neurosis to our eternal detriment, but much of it is yet more good old London-centricism, really. A lot of the UK's black population is there; plenty of flavours of humanity, come to that. Not necessarily living side by side in equal proportion in particular areas, but on the tube or walking in the centre, you will, day to day, see diversity, in the actual sense of that word. Now given that a lot of media and publishing arms are based there... I'm sure you can join the dots.

>>95966457
The game's main location is Talagaad, it's literally on the border with Hochalnd, which is controlled by Talabacland's enemy, Middenland/Osterlund

>>95966343
>the Old World is experiencing an era of relative peace
How do they work this out? Isn't there literally an ongoing civil war?

>>95962472
>You get that the Moors were a thing?
Did you know that in medieval Iberian art, Moors aren’t usually portrayed as much darker than Christian Europeans, and that the ethnic groups the Moors belonged to (Arabs, Berbers, and Iberians) generally don’t resemble sub-Saharan Africans?

>>95966618
You occasionally get darker individuals that one could say are of sub-Saharan stock, but, even in such cases, they don't seem to form a majority of Moors portrayed in the artwork.

>>95966603
It's just GW wanted to redo the HH by having it be some Goldan age before everything went to shit due to the Great War which might work outside of the context of the Empire but within it it's rather baffiling

>>95966603
It's currently not very intense. Everyone's mostly just eying each other while sitting comfortably on what they've already got.

>>95961599
>>95961650
>To be more on point to your post though. Anon didn't want to be in the culture war bullshit either, that bullshit arrived in his house and he wants it to go back outside.

Bingo. There's people who will bitch no matter what about there being a black character in anything. Then there's also the grouping will bitch if there isn't, regardless if it fits lore, setting, etc. Forgotten Realms has Chult, but as far as developed Warhammer lore goes, their equivalent for Africa seems very underpopulated in terms of human inhabitants or cultures. It's a very eurocentric setting. The Empire has people from other parts, but it's an asspull to think they're randomly this diverse with no lore explanation.

It's forced. People remember when it wasn't like this. And you should be allowed to protest unnecessary changes to the thing you like without being labeled a bigot. If nobody cared, why give that inflamed response?

>>95961653
They were probably told to by modern GW's corporate side, let's be real. They've been doing this more and more for AoS, 40K, and Old World in their official stuff. GW is embracing DEI to a degree.
>>95961752
Neither is someone criticizing an unnecessary to their lore and setting.
>>95962395
Most of the factions have varying degree of historical inspirations. So would it be cool if Cathay was randomly filled with Westerners intermixed into their ranks with no explanation or reason? Or would that undermine what they are going for?

Why not write actual lore for factions or cultures inspired by real world Sub-Saharan ones? You've got a wealth of options with things ranging from Nubia, Ethiopia, Mali, to others like the Zulu.

>>95962465
There it is. "Accept the changes or else I'll label you!" And they're the ones who are unhinged? Look in a mirror, anon.

>>95963938
I think this is a GW thing. They've been doing stuff like this more with their official stuff.

>>95966457
>"the empire is bigger than the hre"
>has a canonical population of ~500,000 compared to the historic hre's 15+ million
>99% of the empire's land area is covered in impenetrable wilderness inhabited by millions of beastmen and orcs
WHF's worldbuilding might be some of the worst I've ever seen. How in fuck hell do >>95964416 outposts like this even exist? How do 12 dudes build a fort in the middle of nowhere when the human population is literally outnumbered 1000-1 by monsters that live everywhere outside of cities? How are there any villages or farms or toll roads? How does the empire function in any way? They even say that news barely travels between settlements because of how dangerous the roads and rivers are. They made it more like a Mad Max hellscape than an actual fantasy HRE.

>>95967098
Presumably all the forest monsters are too busy killing each other to bother with destroying the empire.

Racist slovenly fat closeted white boy mouth breeders who don't bathe sure do work themselves into a seething tizzy about GW's shitty games and cover art. You fags should charge GW for the space their occupy in your skull cavities.

>>95967098
>has a canonical population of ~500,000
Altdorf's canonical population is more than a million. There is no canonical population for the Empire as a whole. The gazetteers are nowhere near comprehensive and depending on interpretation may be inaccurate by an order of magnitude (taxable landowners/head of households etc). I have a working list of all the settlements in Reikland that have been mentioned and I'm up to 388 and that's not including stuff from novels or fortresses (52 currently).

Honestly, no number is going to be right for everyone. It has to be sparsely-populated enough to have dark forests where dragons and greenskins can live, but densely-populated enough to support epic conflicts with a hundred gazillion men on each side. Just pick the number that fits the story you want to tell. It's so contentious the only winning move is not to play.

>>95968475
>noticing is racist
Commit suicide subhuman

>>95962472
Assuming your not a troll, explain how common you think Southlanders are within the Empire and how they got there? Specifically Talabecland, since that's what the art depicts. Also that's not the only thing that raises my eyebrow. I don't think an Elf would just be casually buying things at the Market, as least not without getting some stares. Not in Talabecland at least.

>>95969220
I think this is the big problem right here. Not that you see some swarthy people in the not HRE but that their appearance is treated as totally normal and unremarkable, when outside of the biggest trade cities historically seeing a sub-Saharan African would've been extremely rare.

>>95962465
>stop caring about intellectual properties you love bro
>just let them get ruined like the other beloved intellectual properties that got ruined the same way bro
>just say nothing and don't voice your opinion bro
This may be hard to believe anon, but not everyone that disagrees with you is your bigot boogeyman that lives rent free in your head.
There is a problem when voicing an opinion that there are inconsistencies and inorganic additions to a beloved setting. Especially when the addition of inorganic things aren't motivated with a love for the setting.

>>95965092
>Get out of my game!
>No, YOU get out of MY game
>Hurr hurr deluded
This has to be a troll poster. No one in real life is delulu enough to make themselves look like this much of a tool

>>95972845
Get out of my thread.

>>95962376
>Wild men dressed in leathers and animal bones jot being persecuted as chaos worshippers
>halflings not getting kicked around for sport
>Elves not looking like they're going to stab someone
>Arabyans not nationalistic ponces that actually assimilated into what they have assumed to be the inferior culture of the Empire
>Actual Imperials not bedecked in wax seals, scrolls, and fingerboard relics
>everyone is clean and shaven
>no shit in the streets
>no corpses hanging from rooftops
>a SEVERE skull shortage
Is this the slums of Waterdeep? Not even the cosmopolitan capital of Altdorf is this...clean

>here is a black character
FUUUUCCCKKKK DEI WOKE SHIT SOCIETY IS RUINED
>here is a black character they are from the land of Pingo Pongo
well, ok, but they better be a mammy or golliwog

black people don't need a lore reason to exist because they already exist in real life. if part of your fantasy is that no black people are there it's a racist fantasy. if you want to be racist that's your deal just call a spade a spade and don't get pissy when people call you out on it.

>>95972883
Delulu

>>95968475
>>95962465
There is nothing witchcraft, satanic or in our modern times bigoted about voicing disapproval for the inorganic addition of something that could potentially hurt a beloved setting, anon.
Especially when the motivations for the inorganic additions are not in the spirit of the intellectual property to make it better.

>>95972913
>tl;dr strawmanning so hard the market price of straw went up
You say a lot of racist shit to cover up how you hate seeing black people in their native garb. Just more of that white man's burden on display.
Does the possibility that a black man NOT want to be part of your oh so cultured society offend the senses so much you refuse to acknowledge it?

From what little of it I experienced, it does not seem to really lend itself to long term campaigns that well. Imperium maledictum has a similar issue as well where if can get easy to break the game pretty early on as well, but experience can be limited in that.

I also kind of don;t see the point of the product when you could play WHFRP 2nd or 4th and just move the timeline around. It feels like a supplement forced into another game entirely.

>>95972909
it's meant to be Talagaad so the shitty slum port town for Talabheim and Talabecland isn't very much defined as a anti-sigmarite location during this period of time so it being Diverse and full of PCs isn't that weird

>>95973415
>as a anti-sigmarite location during this period
means stuff like wax seals or scrolls wouldn't fit due to those being associated with the cult of Sigmar, which is banned in Talabacland at this point in the timeline*

I am genuinely shocked the character sheet doesn't have a pronoun section. One of C7's leads is straightup militantly woke.

>>95972947
>Ah, but you see, it is not me, the man having a melty about black people existing, who is the racist! It is you, who doesn't give a fuck, who is the real racist!

>>95972909
>>a SEVERE skull shortage
Skulls are associated with veneration of Morr. From the relative absence of skulls you might infer that the cult of Morr is less prominent in the time and place in which the game is set.

>>95973728
Correct

what people skip over is that it isn't about a black character being there or not.
it is about what it tells you about how the framework for roleplaying is being set up
when you insert modern diversity/norms/sensibilities into a medieval setting it also comes with the modern values
the goal is no longer letting you roleplay Krudinger Arschloch, empire veteran and worshiper of Ulrich. Because he could be mean to halflings and that might upset someone somewhere. So they want you to play normy mcmodernface, social media veteran and worshiper of the current day because it's safe and won't upset anyone.
It takes the immersion in an other world and the emotion it brings with it out of the game. All it leaves is a husk where you roll a dice to play it and you can throw in a pun now and again.
there is no role play just a costume you put on while still being you

>>95973962
No it doesn't.

>>95973728
Yes, that's an accurate summation.

>>95973415
>it's meant to be Talagaad so the shitty slum port town for Talabheim and Talabecland
So it should be even shittier that my original estimates.
>isn't very much defined as a anti-sigmarite location during this period of time so it being Diverse and full of PCs isn't that weird
I feel like those are two very separate things you tried to conflate together.

>>95973728
Unironically true.

>>95973962
Pretty muchg this, Modern RPGs are most akin to LARPing, you're still you, you just go by the name 'Elfalel Elferaol' but with fake elf ears and a plastic dollar store bow.

The years weren't kind to Adoring Fan.

>>95964416
Nah, the real dumb thing here is why do the parapets look like they're made of Wattle and daub? Shouldn't they be stone, or thick timber if they're made cheap? Had anyone ever made a fucking defensive building out of plastered walls? Maybe they're stone with plaster over it, but then why the timber frames?

>>95964416
>>95975696
>No roads leading to the towers
>Stairs to access the tower, no way chariots or horses can go across.
>Middenland side appears higher, so hard to get up on that end, must be why therE's a ladder on the side.
>How's that boat being controlled?
>Gobo scout standing like a victorious warleader over his domain.
The more I look at it, the less logic the whole thing has. Why even have a bridge between them at all?

>>95975770
>>No roads leading to the towers
You can see the hint of a dirt path on the Middenland side, but I have no idea why the other side seems to be solid grass where the travelers are.
>>Stairs to access the tower, no way chariots or horses can go across.
Yeah, completely retarded. Who would build what is clearly an expensive large stone bridge that only a single file of soldiers would be able to cross.
>>Middenland side appears higher, so hard to get up on that end, must be why therE's a ladder on the side.
lol yeah.
>>How's that boat being controlled?
Looks like they're using poles to push the boat along, could be really long oars.
>>Gobo scout standing like a victorious warleader over his domain.
Seems fine to me, looks like he's scouting out the area.
>The more I look at it, the less logic the whole thing has. Why even have a bridge between them at all?

>>95975696
>>95975770
The Tower design looks like it is based on the Watch Tower of the Empire scenery GW produces, which is an odd decision

>>95961752
Unless they're in the Cathayan armies and art, of course.

>>95973057
WFRP 2e is highly embedded in its setting which is not compatible with the Warcraftification of things that started in 7e and is currently only accelerating not just in TOW, but in 40k, as well.

>>95962376
Of the 19 people in that image, I count 17 whites and 2 blacks, which is about 10.5%. In modern USA, about 14% of population is black. This image is actually less diverse than real life.

>>95961599
>>95962465
>>95965931
Found they/them

>>95976937
The thing is, I don't want to play in the modern day US.

>>95966980
>or else I'll label you!
Nta, but let me ask you a simple question:
If you hate niggers, why do you bail from saying you are racist?
I never understood the whole point of this alt-right bullshit. Alt- to fucking what? It's all about being a squeemish zoomershit who can't say outright he's racist (because he's fucking paranoid about it, thanks to being a zoomer-consoomer), despite fucking being racist.
Your entire fucking generation is bunch of pathetic faggots that can't even properly express themselves, but if anyone points it out, you double-down on acting retarded, rather than moving fucking on.

>>95977149
>Pancake posting without pancakes
At least use the proper image
Also: the sheer fucking irony of retards that this was all about trying to do a 180 with the meme

>>95968475
People like you who mistake HR mandates for a personality lack even more of a human touch than AI art.

>>95977204
You finished with that goal post?

>>95961336 (OP)
>I am skeptical because of the female bretonian knight on the cover. also, no lance. also, wearing green? interesting.

1: There has been a Female Bretonnian knight on the cover since second edition, as questing outside the kingdom is a cannon thing that women do, with the expectation that after they get it out of they're just going to come home that marry and run a household. Crossdressing as men in this case is also common and cannon.

2: lances are war weapons and not exactly suited to adventuring. The whole bit for questing nights is that they do not carry a lance.

3: Only the back half of the comparison (And before you say anything that's not barding on the horse) is green, and it's not part of the heraldry. That does not violate the heraldic practice.

4: You spelled Bretonnian wrong.

Kill yourself, secondary.

>>95961524
are half of the empire characters black in the players guide for old world rpg?

anyone got the pdf and is willing to share? Couldnt find it myself

>>95976882
Nigger, the Empire timeline is so static you could play a full campaign of whatever WFRP edition you want without having to think about the year you're currently in.

>>95975450
kek

>>95978861
He means all the retcons not the actual timeline retard.

>>95979066
What, because of retcons you can't adapt WFRP 2e to play in 2276 IC?

>>95961336 (OP)
I thought about buying it too since I would like to run dark fantasy, but don't like WHFRP system. But if it is indeed woke, then of course I am pass.

>>95975770
I think it's a case that a long time ago they built a bridge between the 2 regions back when they were under a single lords control, once it was split up between different groups one side put a guarded watch tower to protect against an invasion from the other group, then the other did the same in retaliation. So now the towers are literally just there to stop the other side from launching sneak attacks across the bridge. Hence why their canons are facing eachother instead of up/down the river.

>>95961336 (OP)
That's some bad art. Shame they chose to culture war so hard. AOS should serve as a contaiment zone for all that crap.

>>95979184
The problem isn't what I can do. In my game. The problem is that James Goyslop would not want to "confuse" customers by adding onto an edition with outdated and retconned lore.

>>95965849
No it wouldn't: it's incoherent in the most boring and lazy ways. Why are the cutthroats waiting in ambush RIGHT NEXT TO the city guard? Why doesn't the baker-woman sell her wares in the nearby alley, where they won't get soaked? Why are the stocks facing AWAY from the square? Why does nobody look wet from the rain, and why arent' the braziers steaming?

Good fantasy should spur your imagination, and to do that it needs to be more internally consistent than this.

>>95977885
Pretty sure it's more some sort of Ulrican soldier, what with having a blue wolf on her talbard and shield., and back then women were under peasents-merchants in the bretonnian social order.

>>95961599
Your favorite aesthetic and let's face it artistic setting is being puppeteered basically to be antagonistic and not have the aspects that made it initially appealing to its own user base so either they have to make another thing that appeals to a different user base or they have to appease underweight and overweight nerdy white guys that are into Warhammer like I don't know what to tell you and I side with the underweight and overweight nerdy white guys because their shit is actually being messed with by people that don't like the thing they're messing with and don't like them so they should be driven out The empire should be expressly German people and it is a deliberate antagonistic fuck you to turn that on its head there's no aesthetic or artistic merit in the universe You're just doing it because of
.. because of...you said it culture war bullshit.

So will it hurt game's workshop in any way to not purchase their gay Warhammer game no it won't they don't care is it incumbent upon the original fan base to accept and support the manipulated false product that is meant to directly antagonize the thing that they previously enjoyed also no. Most likely artists were sidelined until they realized that this culture war stuff is a requirement for being platformed or there's like some tranny somewhere at a choke point making sure things turn out this way either way it's a lot of bullshit and I don't blame anyone for just not partaking.

I don't know I think trench crusade kind of sucks and just doesn't have the character Warhammer did so I'm at a loss as to where to go and build a new community of extremely detailed and disturbing artistic renditions of the edgiest stuff on the planet that's completely unpalatable to mainstream audiences and more importantly venture capital. Again both 40k and Warhammer fantasy kind of sucked after it stopped being a niche passion project and started to become video game driven and mainstream

>>95980443
That's the heraldry of L'Anguille, she's definitely a Bretonnian. Look closely at her tabard and you'll notice a horse head too. An Ulrican would be denoted by lots and lots of furs.

>>95980443
Nta, but that is indeed a bretonnian, and a recurring cover character.

Also, read the bretonnian splat book that goes into details about how weirdly common women pretending to be knights are. It's like an open seeker that nobody wants to admit. Kind of like skaven in the Empire.

>>95980071
The saddest part is that art is actually pretty good compared to a lot of the complete and utter slop in 40K post-primaris. I mean it's like just sell the fucking IP to Disney already Jesus Christ.

>>95980558
I don't have my pdfs right now, but there's a picture of that character where you can see the bottom of her shield, and it isn't a fish tail.
There's also the cover of Barony of the Damned which has arguably the same character WITH the fish tail but they're an elf (?) and male (?).

It's all over the place, but I don't think that character was originally conceived as a Bretonnian. More likely an Imperial squire or mercenary.

>>95976937
And how black was the HRE?

>>95980604
Here she is in Barony of the Damned the shield's different but definitely not a wolf, presumably it's also her on the cover but without her scars and definitely an elf, though funnily enough the heraldry there is definitely L'Anguille. She also appears on Ashes of Middenheim and Forges of Nuln, albeit she's not the focus in either so there's not much to gleam about her character. Denying that she is a Bretonnian is just mad cope, right from the start she has chainmail, tabard and heraldry along with sword and heater shield.

>>95980559
There is no shortage of Nobility within the Nobles of Bretonnia, even the women knows of Honour, but again, there's some but there's no whole regimennts of them as it is the case now.

>>95980558
Well, I always saw her as an Ulrican, hence why she's on the cover (2nd still had some religious rivalry going on, the 1st campaign book had that working in the background) also why would some random Bretonnian woman be on the cover with Empire characters? Feels too out of place.

>>95980704
Presumably she was an artist's or, more likely, a designer's waifu. I'd expect furs, wolf iconography and axes from an Ulrican, other than white hair there's nothing that would make me connect her with the cult. And I think it was always the writer's intention for Bretonnia to have female knights even if Bretonnia itself precludes the existence of them. From Knights of the Grail, the source of Bretonnian sexism.

>>95977885
>>95980558
>>95980687

Of course he is a Brettonian! But Sir Eleanors is merely blessed with fair complexion and youthful visage, how ever might any churl dare to say that a bold anointed Knight such as he is a woman?

>>95980704
>Well, I always saw her as an Ulrican
Yes, we have confirmed that you are retarded, and never actually read the book.

>why would some random Bretonnian woman be on the cover with Empire characters? Feels too out of place.
If you weren't some retarded secondary, And actually read the rule book, or pretty much any significant amount of War have a fluff, you wouldn't be asking me this question. Do us all a favor and kill yourself.

>>95982323
Lol, lmao even.

>>95982323
Post books.

>>95961668
That's why it's MANIPULATING, not FORCING, retard.

>>95962472
>You get that the Moors were a thing?
You get that this statement is an old bone that's been chewed into splinters, right? Everyone knows about the Moors. Everyone does, but nobody cares. People are tried of exceptions being commonplace, everyone's tired of "one in a million" really meaning "one in two." I could jump into a long schpeil about primary sources describing how Europeans reacted, in their own words, to Black people. I could describe how even the rare few Blacks that showed up in, say, London were regarded as strange and exotic. I could go into a great number of tangents, but so many people have made so many "erm ackhsually" posts that it'd just be white noise.

So I'm just going to call you a Moor, and tell you no. I refuse. I'm not refusing on the premise of accuracy, but on the premise of interest. No. You will not do this. You will not be allowed.

>>95982567
We just moved into a new place, so all my books are still boxes, but here's box one of 8 of just TTRPGs and wargame books.

Your turn.

>>95982567
And let's not forget some novels. I have around 60ish of Warhammer fantasy alone.

>>95984714
>>95984735
>60 warhammer tie in novels
Nice collection! Did your wife's boyfriend get those for you?

I miss when /tg/ wasn't just culture wars and generals.

>>95985093
Nope. I met my wife wargaming, and we consolidated our collections decades ago.

Projecting much? You sound pretty beta.

>>95985179
>he says as his wall of funko pops stares over his shoulder

>>95985458
Again, projecting. I wouldn't be caught dead with a millennial beanie baby.

>>95985093
>>95985458
Dude, quit being a fag.

>>95962510
Literally the only time I can recall the Southlands getting any "expansion" was that one dev who went and had a full breakdown claiming the Empire was majority black descended or someshit on his blog.

>>95985582
Aren't millenial beanie babies, you know, beanie babies? Funkos appeal to Consoomer drone NPCs of all ages.

>>95985145
That's because Rapeape (head mod who gets paid 5000 bucks a year and who is basically the defacto head of the site since Hiroyuki is hands of) has been actively steering the sites culture to be about culture wars and instructing mods to delete on-topic threads if they aren't conductive to pushing the American culture war. He is also the reason why the sites codebase hasn't been updated since moot left outside of a few minor things that people hate (new captcha, removal of IP-counter etc) and why the site is still hosted on 2010 used PCs that moot bought on the cheap over a decade ago. This is the culture that the current leaders of the site want.

>>95992514
You would think the management would be more hands-on after the hack that stopped people from using the site for two weeks, but it does feel like that has already been completely forgotten about and nothing really changed

>>95992586
All they did was disable the pdf-upload and call it a day because the staff is genuinely incompetent and tech-illiterate and it doesn't matter anyway because people will keep coming here anyway since a lot of 4channers are addicted to constant activity instead of settling for something semi-active that you look over every once in a while. This place is still missing a ton of features that are standard on many alt-chans.

>>95990406
Probably one of two leads on WFRP, both militantly woke and one of them genuinely insane (he was a "bee girl otherkin" white guy who talked about blacks being the master race and eventually got so bad even C7 fired him)

>>95990406
im guessing that would be Ben Scarri's stuff
he hasn't work at C7 for half a decade at this point

>>95984735
>Lies of Locke Lamora
Fucking based.

>>95961599
But OP explicitly stated
>Its important to me that they get the atmosphere and lore right.
>I am skeptical because of the female bretonian knight on the cover
He cares about the vibe of the game and story, so this being a mouthpiece of DEI and nu-Fantasy shit DOES matter you retard. It's massively important.

>>95992717
>ben scarri
That was this guy >>95992711

>>95993102
Scarri isn't White he's from Malta

>Itt: children throwing a fit, because there is a nigger in a picture
>Not about rules, not about gameplay, text formatting or anything of value
>But about pictures
>For 5 days straight
And then you have the sheer fucking gal to call anyone else pathetic.

>>95992711
for a second I thought you were talking about Andy Law

>>95995276
>andy law
He isn't much better

>>95961336 (OP)
Eh I skimmed it and it just appears to be worse WFRP4e at home. But not tied to maintaining the WFRP lisence unless I'm wrong

>>95995401
C7 have said repeatedly they aren't killing WFRP4e for this, and multiple announced and unannounced books are coming for that system.
I think their logic for this book was simply
> Some players think WFRP is too crunchy, let's make a less crunchy system for that audience!

>>95995594
>They're not killing WHFRP 4e for this
I want them to release a fucking Career Compendium so I don't have to search through a fucking Enemy Within Companion book to find rules on Ironbreakers. I want them to release a dedicated, "Big Book of Baddies" so I don't have to rely on Ratter homebrew giving me an easy-to-search list of, say, Norscan tribesmen or Gutter Runners without needing to realize, oh wow, the rules for Clan Eshin are in another fuckin' Enemy Within Companion.

It's tiresome. I love the system but they need to consolidate stuff. This isn't Pathfinder or Star Wars FFG or even 40k where every RPG creature has a website showing every creature, their stats, and what book to find them in. You need a centralized location.

But really, all they need to release now is a Wood Elf Guide and I think the system will be "complete," at least in the sense all the essentials are looked after.

>>95995315
>>95995276
Andy Law is practically a non-issue because the faggy hills he dilates on are boilerplate liberal talking points. He thinks trans people are okay and women are important. If you compared him to, say, Miguel from Massif then Andy's practically conservative.

More importantly, Andy Law is an essential voice for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. He's an old guard that's been shaping both the lore and the mechanics of WHFRP since 2e, and knows the context of the worldbuilding more than anyone else. So much of the setting's tone can be attributed to him, especially in the books - and he does it better than Gav Thorpe, who is way more loud about his opinions and much worse because of it.

I guess what I'm saying is that Andy Law is fruity but fine. He has a function and does it well. If you can't deal with the dentist jabbing your gums from time to time than your teeth are gonna rot.

>>95961336 (OP)
>>95961524
Yah the art is disgustingly 5e in style and tone. what were they thinking? not leaning in a style unique to the old world.

Uh, I am still dreaming of a watercolor-hammer rpg...
I am interested in the d10 system though.
>>95961599
Come on anon, the atmosphere is super off. dont mind a few blacks and women in my games but a draw of warhammer fantasy is the sense of social authenticity. Like maybe the black has a mix of african tribal and marienburg fashion showing hes an exotic foreign sword for hire. Not just a pallete swapped empire soldier.

>>95995315
Why are you hating on the Scots?

>>95995742
>Come on anon, the atmosphere is super off.
One of the things I really noticed in the later books is that they toned down the diversity. I don't remember seeing a single black character in the High Elf Guide, Lustria, or even Deft Hands Light Steps. The High Elf one was particularly surprising because there are tons of "crowd" shots and everyone is white. I don't know what happened in C7 but it's a welcome change.

Also, since you posted art from Up in Arms,
>The White Wolf write-up explicitly mentions that only men can become Knights
>The "in-world" quote about White Wolves is a knight talking to his female squire
Who the fuck are they hiring for these.

>>95995315
>Scottish
My condolences to him.

>>95995742
>Come on anon, the atmosphere is super off.
The problem is that the American culture war has pretty much killed off any sense of real discussion about issues like this. Either you’re gonna get a bunch of retards go on about how they “hate niggers and how the troon world order is pozzing them” while writing out their weirdly detailed blacked fetish fantasies, people who basically think like that but hide it under a layer of plausible deniability and post-irony or people who will accuse you of being a “racist chud” for caring about world building in your fantasy game. It all poisons the discourse and muddles everything. Whatever legitimate point that could be made is lost because it’s been turned into this American shitflinging competition where people obsess over their children’s pop-culture while Peter Thiel is slowly turning their country into a corporate Neo-feudal state.

>>95995784
>that they toned down the diversity. I don't remember seeing a single black character
i dont care if there is some blacks, its just how lazy its done.

>female knight
I think its fine as long as the exceptional status is mentioned. everyone loves a good joan or arc, and a good trial on if she was commiting heresy. There was a warhammer series about a female rogue and an empire soldier that did good females well in a warhammer way, it didnt ignore that she was a girl in a rather real world, but it also showed that she was capable, but not invincible. forgot the name of the series though.

>>95995838
>i dont care if there is some blacks, its just how lazy its done.
I agree with you, but if you give 'em an inch you're giving 'em a mile. Concessions only happen if both parties are willing to give something up, and liberals rarely do.
>I think its fine as long as the exceptional status is mentioned
I don't have any issue with female knights, my amusement was that the White Wolves are described as male-only in the same breath we see a female squire. White Wolves and the Cult of Ulric are, to me, very patriarchal. Them being very focused on male dominance and women knowing their place (or at the very least, being coddled like Dwarves with their women) makes sense. Knights of the Blazing Sun, in contrast, are very egalitarian; they worship a Goddess of War, after all, and their "foreign"ness can be emphasized by brown short-haired tomboy knights.

Another good example is like, Taal and Rhya. They're husband/wife and have very interconnected churches, but Rhya is explicitly female-dominated while Taal is a man's religion. There's nothing weird about that - in fact, I celebrate it because it speaks to the fact that people yearn for special clubs, whether that's exclusive to bodybuilders or penis-bearers.

>>95995901
>brown short-haired tomboy knights.
mmmm

but also yah, I think paying more attention to the social dynamics of different places needs to be there for that down to earth warhammer feel.

>>95990669
No, it was late gen-Xers buying beanie babies. Millennials were children during the BB craze, and not adult collectors.

Beanie Babies came out 25 years ago, anon.

>>95992762
It really is. I honestly wish it was more popular, but I also live in fear everyday that Amazon or Netflix is going to murderfuck it.

>>95995981
*35

>>95995812
Good thing there is no culture war in Eurasia.

>>95995901
There is no political considerations for me, female warriors in a setting where warriors have to actually fight and there are real life and death stakes if they lose will always destroy my suspension of disbelief. Keep that shit in DnD and anime.

>>95996009
We have to deal with it on english speaking internet, unfortunately, but yes it's a you problem.

>>95995693
shut the fuck up nigger, Andy Law is great at making maps but that's it, I wouldn't hesitate for a single second to delete everything he wrote for WFRP

>>95961336 (OP)
>I am skeptical because of the female bretonian knight on the cover. also, no lance. also, wearing green? interesting.
Always disgusting when that happens

>>95968475
I'll show you how much of a mouth breeder I really am if you're not careful bro.

>>95996697
>Great at making maps
>What he wrote is as good
Maybe not. That rookery thing was just the Three Feathers on a boat, but more diverse.

>>95962402
NGL I'd love to have a 2021 BMW Series 530i with optional heated seating in my D&D game.

>>95995635
If you just want that career they at least put out the dwarf Player's Guide, which included that

>>95995635
It's part of the new marketing strategy; spread things apart so thinly that people will need to buy a bunch of books to get the whole deal.

>>95996009
There are just actual, regular wars, instead of bullshit non-issues that only matter if you are nigger-obsessed ameritard

>>95995693
>tone
What tone? Blood shit and misery?

>>95998265
WFRP tone should in theory, be pic but it mostly just devolves into full grimderp

>>95992788
If he cared about the vibe of the game and story he would've known that the bretonnian female knight is a recurring character.

>>95966109
dude watch British advertising. During advertising segments it's genuinely 80% black people. I've counted races in ads for years now when watching them and white people make up like 10% of people in ads now. Like you said, blacks only make up 3-4% of UK populations.
My theory is it's because counter-culture became the standard bearer of pop culture and music culture in the 1980s/1990s, and then being "black" was seen as being counter-culture in itself, which gives blacks MASSIVE dominance in pop culture representation. Look how anime was considered gay shit for nerd pedo kids, until black people started going on about Naruto and Hentai and DBZ and now anime is considered completely normal and mainstream and even "counter culture cool" by normies.
Either way it's very bizarre how white people are actively erasing themselves, and this is coming from someone who is only half white.

>>95962402
>a black person in vaguely european fantasy is the equivalent of a BMW in LotR

>>95998288
>it mostly just devolves into full grimderp
Its been that way since 6th edition.

>>95969220
>Assuming your not a troll, explain how common you think Southlanders are within the Empire and how they got there?
Who gives a fuck how common they are? RPG's don't obligate you to play characters based on demographic statistics. You only need to explain where your particular character comes from. Adventures are free to come from whatever bizarre outlier they damn well please.

>>95999531
Nothing vague about it but yes.
>>95999573
Anyone can do anything in their own game, that has no implications for official setting material. You can literally play a BMW in your game if you want, nobody's going to stop you. Doesn't mean it should be on the cover of the rule book.

>>95961336 (OP)
They added niggers in the setting now, so no, I won't be buying it. I will stick to second edition and continue to shit on nigger edition. That is all.

>>95999531
Yes.

>>95999630
>>95999653
Black people not only existed in LotR, they were in fact present for the very battle from that image and fought for Sauron. The image and comparison are just monumentally stupid

>>95999729
>The image and comparison are just monumentally stupid
Are you saying a sufficiently intelligent artificer in Faerun could never create an affordably-priced sedan?

>>95999729
>Fire-breathing dragons
>Immortal song-magic Elves
>Flying ships made of super-metals
>Gigantic spiders that feed off the very light itself
>Actual Satan

>But a car is too much

>>95999729
>Black people not only existed in LotR
Not really, but also irrelevant. That post was specifically making fun of the people why don't even bother to come up with any kind of justification for going against established worldbuilding. The kinds of people who claim that just because a fantasy world operates on different rules than ours, it doesn't really have any rules at all. You and me both know that it's just idpol nonsense from people who don't actually care about the setting at all.

>>95999847
>That post was specifically making fun of the people why don't even bother to come up with any kind of justification for going against established worldbuilding.
The existence of black people and the presence of some of them across the world hardly requires a meticulous explanation

>>95999842
>>95999811
>the presence of members of a common human ethnic group is like the presence of magical artifacts or mythical beasts
Racism is literal brainrot

>>95999862
I just wish you people were honest for once

>>95999876
>All those words without explaining why you can't make a car in Faerun

>>95961650
>Outside forces
Conspiracy theory.

>>95999899
The weakest attempt at gaslighting in this thread so far.

>>95999896
Faerun has spaceships so your artificer seems like quite the underachiever if you ask me

>>95999896
Skaven 100% can make a car.

>>95999927
Dwarves also make helicopters, flamethrower wielding infantry, have access to steam engines.... The Empire makes steam tanks...

These guys have picked a pretty terrible comparison to be dishonest about.

>>95999531
Yes holy shit this poorly done propaganda in nerdy hobbies done to justify the current invasion of Europe by Africa/ME is why I would now make Hitler blush

>>96000003
>Invasion
Where?

>>96000111
The guy is a falseflagging /pol/tard trying to hijack the hobby for political gain
It’s happened before with OSR
They’ll leave eventually and try to invade somewhere else
It happens every major political event

>>95961752
DEI and left wing idpols quite literally made it political, and you cannot even pretend to refute this. It's the entire crux of their, "representation matters" crusade, then want to wag their finger at you for wanting eurocentric medieval media to look the part.

>>95961828
If the game is about MLP characters snorting coke as a character option, then sure. But otherwise I agree.

>>95962472
I agree, this isn't medieval Europe. So explain why there are people with more melanin in their skin existing people that don't, and where did they come from? Because they clearly didn't end up there naturally.

>>95999729
>Black people not only existed in LotR
Pre-Amazon buyout proofs please?
I'm not memeing I'm genuinely asking.

>The image and comparison are just monumentally stupid
You missed the point it was making.
It is making fun of those who argue in favor of inorganic things that don't fit the established setting or canon of a beloved setting that then call those who point it out bigoted. It is quite the repeating pattern.
Such inorganic additions will be pointed out and fans of beloved IP will complain about it.

It just so happens that the inorganic thing is some more melanated gentlemen shoved into the Empire when it is clear that GW could have opened a history book and a made a not![insert African Kingdom here] like how they made a whole not!Imperial China faction.

>>96000933
>Pre-Amazon buyout proofs please?
Yes, the Haradrim are literally called Swarthy Men because of their dark complexion. The men of Near Harad are brown while the men of Far Harad are black. I guess Peter Jackson just didn't want the visuals of white people
slaughtering a bunch of black people in his movies so he made them vaguely eastern I guess.

>It is making fun of those who argue in favor of inorganic things that don't fit the established setting or canon of a beloved setting that then call those who point it out bigoted.
Explain how it relates to this particular case. Black people exist in warhammer. It is not at all far fetched that some might have migrated into an Imperial City for whatever reason. The writers didn't provide any real demographic data on the Empire. They just portrayed some adventurers as black and dipshits threw a shitfit

>It just so happens that the inorganic thing is some more melanated gentlemen shoved into the Empire
How is it fucking inorganic? The Empire borders a bunch of other places, some of them famously oriented towards global trade. It engages in colonialism in Lustria, it imported fucking rockets from Cathay. All this and you find it unbelievable that maybe in the process of all that some black people might have ended up in their cities either as merchants, adventurers or maybe occupying some small quarter like Jews historically. Fuck, maybe they were brought over as slaves for a while and set free. The possibilities are literally endless and instead of taking it fa/tg/uys would prefer to scream hysterically over their latest favorite buzzword from Fox News.

The crux of this whole issue is that ultimately some people feels highly threatened when they see black people.

>>96000670
>So explain why there are people with more melanin in their skin existing people that don't, and where did they come from?
More importantly, why is there only dark-skinned people in what's clearly meant to be Africa?

>>96001132
>Yes, the Haradrim are literally called Swarthy Men because of their dark complexion. The men of Near Harad are brown while the men of Far Harad are black. I guess Peter Jackson just didn't want the visuals of white people
>slaughtering a bunch of black people in his movies so he made them vaguely eastern I guess.
That explains a lot. Thanks!
>Explain how it relates to this particular case.
The car represents lore breaking outlandish thing that is out of place in a setting.
The Empire is meant to be medieval/renaissance era Germany at a time where there were virtually no moors to speak of.
It is also making fun of people like you who defend the lore breaking thing by calling others bigoted.
>Black people exist in Warhammer
Yes they do. I remember reading The Legend of Sigmar omnibus where they were encountered when Sigmar was busy trying to conquer a fortified city and they had swarthy mercs defending it. They can be organically integrated into the setting with a not!fantasy African Kingdom created.
Cathay is an example of this, but the designers have decided instead to just shove them into the empire inorganically and have defenders like you defend them by labeling everyone as bigots. Don't be a corporate mouthpiece, anon. Don't defend bad corporate decisions for free. You're better than that.
>How is it fucking inorganic?
Like I said above. There was room for a fantasy not!African Kingdom to be made and organically integrated but instead the writers just shoved them into Empire outfits without fleshing out why there are there to my knowledge.
There is no mention of the Empire engaging in slave trade to my knowledge.

>The crux of this whole issue is that ultimately some people feels highly threatened when they see black people.
I'm not saying they aren't there. I'm saying the main issue is inorganic additions to a beloved setting for motives that aren't for the enrichment of said beloved setting.

>>95965234
You're now realizing what woke really means, a self-hate cult of a white privileged retards. Diversity means less white, diversity ONLY means Black people, and other ethnic cultures can be homogeneous. Having different offbrand white like >>95995276 pic-related is not acceptable anymore, even having hispanic around white people isn't just enough, it HAAAS to be people of African descent and the color of visible shit for skin.

This is why we CAN'T and shouldn't tolerate woke bitchfaggots. It's literal racism against white people even by self-hating ridden-with-guilt cretins, speaking as a non-white.

>>96001243
>The car represents lore breaking outlandish thing that is out of place in a setting.
Again. Black adventurers are outlandish? In Warhammer? The thing that has helicopters? In the same sense that a fucking car is in LotR? A car in LotR cannot possibly exist under any circumstances so far presented. Black people in warhammer literally exist. People come in contact with them all the time. The comparison is dumb, inhumanly so and does not remotely apply to this situation.

>The Empire is meant to be medieval/renaissance era Germany at a time where there were virtually no moors to speak of.
Renaissance era Germany also didn't have rocket artillery, steam tanks, dragons, griffins, a large infestation of Beastmen in its forests, magic..... All the bizarre things the Empire has are just fine but some black residents in a city? Unacceptably outlandish, how dare you!

>There was room for a fantasy not!African Kingdom to be made and organically integrated but instead the writers just shoved them into Empire outfits without fleshing out why there are there to my knowledge.
Your perspective is that fantasy kingdoms must exist only as strictly segregated with not even rando adventurers and merchants being allowed in foreign cities and then you're surprised that people call you bigoted.

And what happens when said kingdom sends ambassadors and merchants. What happens when the Empire decides to hire some of them as mercenaries. Suppose one of them comes to study at the Colleges of Magic. Suppose a bunch of them hear about the wonders of Imperial Engineering and set of to find the Empire. Maybe a chance encounter with Dark Elf slavers leaves some of them in Imperial service. The possibilities are endless, but hey being black in the Empire is apparently impossible so can't have any of that.

We're still feeding trolls?

>>96001512
Nta but
You just did the lotr car meme again.
Just stop embarrassing yourself please.
Or keep going I did find entertainment in your posts.

>>96001512
I think your vibe as a desperate pleasing lefty is making you look like a /pol/tard pretending to be a bad lefty It would be best to just come clean as one rather than actually be a bad lefty at this point. The anon you’re responding to was pretty reasonable considering what we get here on average in this thread.

Look guys, it's totally believable and necessary to have a story in medieval Japan feature a black shogun. After all, black people LITERALLY existed in the time period, so there's really no reason to not feature one as a Japanese shogun in the 1500s. Checkmate chuds.

>>96001512
>And what happens when said kingdom sends ambassadors and merchants. What happens when the Empire decides to hire some of them as mercenaries. Suppose one of them comes to study at the Colleges of Magic. Suppose a bunch of them hear about the wonders of Imperial Engineering and set of to find the Empire. Maybe a chance encounter with Dark Elf slavers leaves some of them in Imperial service. The possibilities are endless, but hey being black in the Empire is apparently impossible so can't have any of that.
You're using the same claims those journalists did for Kingdom Come when they were outraged at the lack of black bodies in Bohemia.
>What if a Black merchant traveling the silk road stopped in the area and impregnated a white woman?! That would explain there being black people!

>>96001643
Oda Nobunaga literally had a black samurai for a while, holy fuck. Exactly the kind of weird adventurer that faggots like to scream about around here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke

>>95961336 (OP)
Unironically why would you not just buy an as-new copy of the 1e rulebook off Ebay or wherever? Guaranteed correct atmosphere and lore and no dogshit revisions of the content to appease Tumblr.

>>95977885
It's called a caparison, you're in no position to call for anyone else to KHS over being a secondary.

>>96001691
Anon, have you heard of a little game called Assassin's Creed: Shadows?

>>96001704
WFRP and this game are different systems

>>96001691
Lmao you've kept this thread going like 60 posts. Legit good baiting skills anon

>>96001512
>And what happens when said kingdom sends ambassadors and merchants. What happens when the Empire decides to hire some of them as mercenaries.

The point isn't that you can't have black individuals in the empire with believable backstories, it's that the creators have apparently decided to blackwash empire characters without even trying to explain why.

>>96002321
>Giving them even an inch of slack to excuse blackwashing
This is a terrible negotiation strategy. You need to start from a position of abject refusal, and let them find some way to give up their position to compromise.

>>96000272
Lol no no
>>96000111
The hordes of dinuds and Muhhameds freely allowed to rape their way across Europe

>>96001306
100% CORECT

>>96001691
No, he did no,t and the Jew that was in Japan pushing him has been exposed as a fraud by the Japanese government itself

>>96004229
>He didn't
Yeah, he did.

>Jew pushing him
You mean any halfway decent historian?

>>96004202
>The hordes of dinuds and Muhhameds freely allowed to rape their way across Europe
Ah, so your fantasy?

>>96002321
>it's that the creators have apparently decided to blackwash empire characters without even trying to explain why.
They don't have to. Black characters exist in Warhammer. They could exist in the empire. Besides, blackwashing implies they are taking previously white characters and making them black.

>>96001691
Turns out 99% of the "scholarly sources" on Yasuke was just one fucking guy making up mountains of bullshit to sell a book about the subject and he has since been caught.

All we know for certain is that Oda Nobunaga bought a black game from a Dutch trader he named Yasuke and the very little documentation we have would suggest he was akin to a grinder monkey tier accessory that Nobunaga kept as a knick knack.

>>96004535
>Turns out 99% of the "scholarly sources" on Yasuke was just one fucking guy making up mountains of bullshit to sell a book about the subject and he has since been caught.
If by one source you mean "Every single historian that researches the period" then yes.

>and the very little documentation we have would suggest he was akin to a grinder monkey tier accessory that Nobunaga kept as a knick knack.
No? Any actual evidence we have indicates he genuinely gave him the position of Samurai.

>>95973962
WFH was never meant to be your nazi power fantasy but a parody of it.

>>96004555
This. The closest Nazi equivalent are literal cowardly rat people.

>>96001704
1st ed's great, 2nd ed's great as well.

>>96001306
Oh, I use pol since long ago, I know what it is, it's been festering under the surface for years, it only came all out in 2020 with the rest of it all.
Still, it's pretty much that.

At least Andy Law got fired from C7, imagine WFRP with him at the helm, I'm sure he wrote that professor in the The Horned Rat fucking 4 paragraphs description, picture, stat block for a side character who's not really important.

It's not related to the topic, but would it be possible to use 4e books as splatbooks while using 2e rules? Would conversion be difficult? I know there's a pdf for converting 2e stuff in 4e, I was wondering if the opposite would be feasible

>>96004632
It should be doable, I'm not sure of the results, If you know 2e well enough it ought to be easy to do convertions.

>>96001306
Woke means pro human. White means anti human. Aka: Evil.

To be anti white is to be against evil.

>>96004632
Yeah, but you would need to convert the statblocks from 4e to 2e.

>>96004632
I've run 2e material in 4e with no issues before, shouldn't be any harder the other way around.

>>96001806
Same question a second time.

>>96004654
Wow, that's bullshit

>>96005308
It's factual.

>>96005321
How, it sounds like racist diarrhea

>>96004632
>Would conversion be difficult?
No, an Orc in 2nd Edition has the same stats as an Orc in 4th edition. Only the abilities are different, and that's simply due to the way talents are written.

>>96004630
That NPC's relationships with other NPCs are important for an investigation and later the PCs will need to spend a reasonable amount of time with her while they play bodyguard, which will neceassarily involve a combat. She absolutely needs that page of info, inclufing the statblock. Did you read the whole book?

>>96005584
I don’t think he understands what the Enemy Within is even about.

>>96004643
>>96004659
>>96004978
>>96005368
Thanks anons.
Also, am I crazy for thinking 4e is rather soulless? I got the starter set and I don't know if it's the artstyle or the general "vibe" but it just hasn't clicked with me. I own a few 2e books and they're miles better, hence why I want to try the conversion thing

>>96005661
It's probably the art style, C7 was pretty bad with the art at the start of 4e, but I do think they have improved, the general vibe of 4e is mostly just a replica of 1e since they wanted to use the new edition of WFRP to redo The Enemy Within Campign and you can't really do that without just copying what the writers were going for in 1e.

>>96005661
4e takes some growing into, I had the same trepidation as you going in. The setting is meant to be more whimsical than 2e, because it’s set in an unspecified pre-turmoil period when times were good and people could get a little goofy. 2e, in contrast, is set in 2522, right after the Storm of Chaos which was meant to be the End Times before the End Times. It’s post-apocalyptic, which is why the world seems so much grimier.

>>96005594
Big gay bird wants to corrupt Jimmy Conan’s Warhammer(tm) so it concocts a big gay scheme to make the wolf incels angry at the hammer cucks so it can use the turmoil to put their Manchurian candidate on the throne of the Empire.

Somewhere along the way the rats shoot the moon with a giant laser and a PC discovers he’s Ryan Gosling because the corpse is Literally Me.

>>96005742
Don't forget the other random separate schemes of turning an entire town into a gateway to hell and poisoning one politician enough to make being a mutant legal

>>96005697
>>96005699
Thanks bros

>>96005661
There's no accounting for vibes, but in terms of writing, a lot of it is by people who also worked on previous editions.
Some parts of 4e are honestly the best its ever been. Some parts are merely fine and perhaps suffer because of GW restrictions. A small handful of bits are bullshit.
Tonally it cleaves somewhere between 1e and WFB 8e which isn't quite as grimdark as 2e. But given the number of people that freak out about how everyone in WFRP is an evil idiot who dies instantly of the shits, you'd think that would be an improvement.

>>96005863
It’s always strange getting that guy who thinks everyone in the Empire should be a mud-caked peasant who dies of an infected goblin arrow when that was never really the tone for most of the setting’s history. It’s British DnD, which is a bold thing to say but I felt compelled to make it. The setting isn’t grimdark, it’s grubby. Like a punk rock concert, or Monty Python. People are stupid but they usually mean well.

I still fondly reminisce on how High Elves in 1e are described as decadent floozies who occasionally get lynched for being too fruity. The Chaos Gods were described more like how you’d describe Tiamat or Baal than omnipotent aspects of the universe.

I’ll admit the vibe is very different from 2e, and I’ve certainly had my fun with things getting muddy, but it’s fun to visit the Old World and know it’s going to be a laugh and a half instead of something dour and introspective.

>>96005917
I mean, it's both. It thrives on contrast. WFRP is certainly a game where you can play a rat catcher with rules for the galloping trots where everyone has a strange taste in skull-based ornamentation.
It's just also also funny and absurd.

It doesn't have to be grimdark or funny, it can be more sincere and serious, or heroic and epic too. It's just nice to have that thematic range.

WFRP's setting is grimderp idiocy that relies on the good guys being suicidally stupid and inept and the bad guys being omniscient and plot armored out the ass for anything to happen.

Sigcarl Freudyung hangs the local mayor Johannes Bergguten for saying "bloody milk" (cuz that means is milk's bloody an ez a demon innit) then Margorok Thratcha the orc burns his village down in a forced and unfunny cockney vernacular and then Angry Deathsword shows up and destroys the world.

Good fucking setting you limey leftoid boomers.

>>96006375
Hell yeah, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

>>96004522
>They don't have to.
They do if they don't want to appear to deliberately ignore established lore.
>Black characters exist in Warhammer.
Yes, in their native regions.
>They could exist in the empire.
Yes, I am asking for there to be a story for how they ended up there, since they've never been native to the Empire, but they could potentially exist there.
>Besides, blackwashing implies they are taking previously white characters and making them black.
They are, the art pieces clearly depict empire styled clothing and armour. These are not immigrants or travellers, they are empire characters that just happen to have a different skin colour. That's a feature of modern cosmopolitan society, it's at odds with the premise of the setting.

>>96005584
I did, her assitants are lower than Sturday morning cartoons henchmen in terms of covering their tracks, and the assassination plot is, to be quite frank, going in a complete different direction, mostly due to the fact that my PCs haven't commenced Power Behind the Throne as a bunch of random peddlers, but a Witch Hunter and his retinue with a reputation that sometimes preceeded them. As they stopped the plot and arrested the ringleader on Day 5, that ending flew off the window. And one of the PC became the Graf's Chmapion too. So I can't even run the Horned Rat as is, not to mention most of the Middenheim part begins with 'Meet with that ultra recognisable character from some novel who deals in sensitive information, pay 6-20 shillings to know where to go next'.
Too competent skaven cultist named Maus (Liz Natch 2.0?)
Despite having a whole section on sewer/underground encounter, the Captain of the Sewerjacks is named twice in passing.
Almost complete dissaperance of the religious tensions- now it's cat hunting time!
Few maps, sure there's a few light maps (the warehouse has mistakes on it regarding the stairscase) the evil lair, but how about a map of the picket, Middenheim or even a couple of districts? NO, go buy that other book for that!
It reminds me a bit of Ashes of Middenheim, you're more or less conscripted into the Watch into a special investigation unit due to the current situation, just a bit less..polished? Well-rounded? Complete?
Also, we're in 2523, fuck End Times, the Storm of Chaos was a much more intresting event, and with lots of options due to the destruction it brought.
>>96005742
>>96005786
There's alot the bit where you travel on a boat and somehow got to kill some Witch and storm a castle to find some moon rock which the ratkin steal 2 seconds before you arrive and blow up the castle if you somehow manage to care long enough and not begin new lives as river traders.

>>96010591
My party are all gold status. Instead of putting them under Schutzmann's command, they are just in control of the Kommission themselves, with Schutzmann passing them intel sometimes. Works fine.

There are problems with THR but it's so much more interesting than Ashes of Middenheim. I tried going through that for material to loot, but it wasn't worth the effort.

>>96010591
>the Storm of Chaos was a much more intresting event, and with lots of options due to the destruction it brought.
The biggest mistake of 4th edition is moving the timeline back, post SoC is when whf is peak as an RPG setting. You have an in universe good reason for a rat catcher, a merchant, a wizards apprentice and a squire to be traveling around going on adventures together.

>>96010679
Enemy Within is an unfair comparison because it’s probably the best multi-book adventure ever written. I tried going through Thousand Thrones and it’s a slog that completely fumbles the premise. Just make Karl from Grenzstadt you freaks!
>>96010697
It’s a different tone, and I respect that. 2e content is still there if you want to run something in the post-apocalypse, but returning to the goofy 1e roots of the setting is pleasant enough.

>>96011968
>>96010697
Goodness! This is what you get for posting before your coffee; I wanted to add that turning back the clock to undo the metaplot of earlier works isn’t anything bad. Legend of the Five Rings 5e, for example, undoes like 50 years of the past four editions and does a soft reset of the setting to before all the nasty shit happened. And it’s better for it.

The only thing I don’t really abide is the Old World going 100+ years back, mostly because it produces a death spiral of mining earlier and earlier time periods because you can’t touch the newer lore, like what happened with Star Trek and Star Wars.

They really should've just used the "modern" time and ignored the End Times.

>>96011984
>The only thing I don’t really abide is the Old World going 100+ years back,
I don't mind this, mostly due to it clearly building up to the Great War Against Chaos, where even if that conflict is still 30 years away at this point in the timeline.
It's a better justification than having Mordheim set 500 years in the past beouce the creators wanted to do a Y2K joke

>>96004630
>>96005584
>>96010591
Le ebin feminist professor self-insert is shit, and that's saying something given how shit original TEW was. They shoehorned in a bunch of dumbass skaven shit that makes no sense, repeatedly smack you in the face with HURR SKAVEN DONT REAL LOL jokes that aren't funny the first time let alone the 500th time, and le ebin feminist professor actually turns out to be a huge retard (as is everyone else in the empire's scientific community) because she's flabberghasted that was is obviously a dummy with a shittily stitched-on rat head turned out to be a dummy and not a real skaven. It's scooby doo tier dogshit. Fuck I hate the skaven, at least the "they dont exist xD" meme turned into plot. So fucking stupid.

>>96013590
I'm not exactly captain woke, but she's just a fairly dowdy female scholar. Not sure what's 'le ebin feminist self-insert' about that.

The book (or at least the companion) goes into a fair amount of detail about the skaven conspiracy stuff - about half the NPCs do actually believe they exist, it's more a question of whether they believe in beastmen with super science who live in your latrine and regularly abduct people.

>>96014308
He’s having a gamer moment, ignore it. God forbid a woman display qualities that aren’t sexually appealing to men.

Anyone got pdfs of the character sheets?

>>96020112
>>96007987

>>96004549
You are simply lying.

>>96004630
I genuinely cannot comprehend what is wrong with this image.

>>95962465
Don't you have palestinian kids to shoot right now

>>96020390
Ah thanks so much, if it's you who made the catbox link then I was the one who originally asked for the pdf of the character sheet (not the one who made the catty catbox reply though), so if you're the guy who uploaded it then apologies for not responding to thank you in the thread.