Underway Chase Edition

Resources:
WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwh
WM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgeba
WFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6
Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H
>Warhammer Chronicles:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zip
>Time of Legends:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip
>The End Times:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip
>TOW:
https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXS
https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/
>Alternative Models:
https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL
>FAQ/Errata
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/wgp83jlw/old-world-faq-and-errata-designers-notes/

>Previous Thread:
>>95969472

>Thread Question:
If you could choose a completely new army to add to the game, which would you choose?

>TQ
Halfings or bust

>>95974610 (OP)
>TQ
If you mean new armies that aren't in TOW yet, then Kislev.

>>95974625
demons are cringe the more I think about their implantation

Which army should I choose if I don't want any large models
Demon price is as big as I want

>>95974718
*demon prince

>Repost from last thread.
Is my maths and understanding of the rules correct on this?
Post errata you can only make supporting attacks if a model is within it's movement range of the enemy unit. The 2nd rank can make supporting attacks as long as the unit hasn't charged and spears now mean the 3rd rank can make attacks.
Since Clanrats have M5, that means that 7 models to either side of the models in in base contact of the enemy unit can make supporting attacks (CR are on 20x20 bases, 5" is 127mm so 6 models on each side are wholly within 5" and the 7th is just on the edge).
So if a unit of 60 Clanrats with spears was in 3 ranks of 20, and came was charged by a unit with 20 models in it, that was in 2 ranks of 10, all 60 Clanrats would be able to attack the enemy unit.
Is this correct?

>>95974718
>No large models.
Dwarves are all short, and their warmachines aren't too big either.

>>95974745
Aren't their models supposed to be shit?
I like dwarfs but I've heard they're terrible and don't fit at all

>>95974761
that's AOS dwargoflergen (tm) or whatever the fuck they're called.
the old regular dwarf models were fine.

>>95974610 (OP)
Araby!
Araby!
Araby!

>>95974718
>Which army should I choose if I don't want any large models

>>95953188
>>95953188
your kind are over there anon

I'm working on the banner for my chaos chariot and I'm in need of a good pun to paint on said banner. So far all I've got is "Run, run, make this fun!" with a dude trying to escape from a pack of wolves/whatever or "No hangers-on!" with a skeleton being dragged along by chains, but neither of these two options feel right. I don't want to just directly crib lyrics from songs, but "We like it hard! We like it fast!" might be fun too, but I have no idea what I'd paint to go alongside that. I need your help! Inspire me!

>>95974961
An alliteration to the phrase cash gas or ass, no one rides for free.

>>95974761
Yeah, they're garbage, but that's the TOW experience. It's not authentic unless it looks like someone molded it out of asbestos in the 80s using only their asscheeks.

>>95974985
If khorne
> blood, beer to chug, or I flip you around and play in the mud
Might be too long

>>95974739
Yeah probably would be easier to just measure though instead of mathing it out

Are Warpfire Dragon stocks up because it’s not a character and can’t be challenged out and neutered by a sacrificial champion?

On a similar note, despite the nerfs to flails and frenzy does Wolves of the Sea have mileage in using their pregame challenge to snipe a champion out of a key unit to soften it up for a dragon lord?

>>95974985
>>95974996
Awful ideas
>what I want you to think of when we play a fun game of Warhammer is gay anal rape

>>95974739
40 max unit size

>>95975015
>anal sex must be with men
Anon....way to out yourself

>>95974985
I think that, or anything along the lines of harder/faster, would be best saved for a chariot marked by Slaanesh... Maybe I don't need a pun, just something cool to write on the banner! Something that I can theme the entire banner around.

>>95975025
Khorne written in the style of the Jesus fish

>>95974739
I believe this is correct, but while it’s pretty terrifying into other weak lightly armored infantry anything T4 3+ or like a T5 4+ chariot is still giving you a hard time I think. Not sure it’s worth it. Of course you can buff your rats or throw a character in there.

>>95975008
>does Wolves of the Sea have mileage
No

>>95974961
What about CLEAN ENERGY: FUELLED BY SLAUGHTER

>>95975040
I think it looks alright with the changes. Ambush is looking better, going first is definitely better, huscarls remain good, you have boosted rare percentages for giant spawn and drogres and undivided marauder blocks will do fine for holding objectives. Cheap ambush characters where I can slot in ruby ring or rod of the damned seem good too.

Nevermind, I found my inspiration.
https://youtu.be/I1v61X-ZNcc?si=j9sWgEH2wlbT_e1M
this banner will be so stupid, the worst one yet.
I can't wait to paint it!

As a WoC player looking for a 2nd army is the royal AJ army for Dwarves good? My WoC army is massive but Id like a small (by comparison) Dwarf army for something different, but Im iffy on the normal warrior models.

>>95975155
Royal clans is weaker than the Expedition force list. But the most competitive pre errata list was a grand army that didn’t use any warriors and instead used longbeards.

>>95975025
>honk if you're Khorney

>>95975281
So when is GW going to have someone make WHFB-Kart?

What's wrong with his helmet?

>TQ
My top three picks would probably be the Amazons, the halflings, and the Vampire Coast. That being said, I don't think I'd want modern GW handling the Amazons since they'd make all the women look more masculine than actual men.

>>95975295
>It's'a me'a Baltazar Gelt!

>>95974610 (OP)
>TQ
Halflings, or maybe Nippon since I'm a weeb.

>>95975327
>I don't think I'd want modern GW handling the Amazons
I mean you don't really want modern GW handling anything. they only ever make things worse. but you get what you get.

>TQ
Amazons

>>95975327
I thought the Amazon Blood Bowl team looked fine enough with how unflattering GW paints jobs are of women.

excluding elves, who are the biggest cuckolds in fantasy

>>95974610 (OP)
Some kind of Cthulhu themed sea monster people. They've been vaguely alluded to a couple times and I think another cool monster race would be neat. Halfings would be fun, but if I were to bring back an old faction I would like to see Fimir return first.

>>95975541
Dwarfs are polyandrous.

>>95975646
>Fimir
Based

>>95974739
You are wrong in that regard, that the fighting ranks does make regular attacks, not supporting attacks.
https://tow.whfb.app/the-combat-phase/supporting-attacks

>>95974739
>unit. The 2nd rank can make supporting attacks
Second rank doesn't make supporting attacks. They are contributing normal attacks as part of the fighting rank, they are just capped at 1 for not being b2b

>>95974610 (OP)
Hobgoblins (designed by pre-2005 GW staff)
I want them to have shitloads of culture LORE, like what kind of squigs they herd to feed their wolves, where they get the horn and sinew to make their bows, hobyurt designs, how they've adapted to fighting off chaos marauders. And the great mystery: how they can be so treacherous yet also form the most stable greenskin nation.
Also their wolves should be semi-intelligent and have a sort of society themselves.
Army mechanics are: hoblin shoots, wolf runs

is telegram still the place for files?

>>95975956
I always saw them as the Mongols, untrustworthy, but still with some mercenary quality, as long as you cather to their warriro image, they can be contorlled somewhat.

I'll go with Halflings, because why not, There was that scouting regiments back then, the leader had a dartboard as shield.

Assailments not in b2b would only get one hit, right? Thinking because the spectral doppelganger + mace of helstrum faq says the weapon's rule of only one hit implies any other reason to have one attack would also mean only one hit.

>>95975324
the dwarf warrior kit is pretty fucked up. part of the helmets neckguards are on the back part of the torso, and part of them are on the front, and the joinery is such that it leaves massive gaps so it looks like they dont even connect. also, the helmets require tremendous cleanup because there are thick mould slips that run right down the middle of them

honestly the dwarf warrior kit kind of sucks

How hard am I coping getting into wood elf’s thinking I can make them decently competitive?

>>95976097
why would you want to make them competitive in the first place?

>>95976097
you have a dragon, you can win, shame about everything else

Wood elves out here crying don’t know how badly ogres got fucked.

>>95976330
I don't know why people bitch about ogres so much. Good monsters and monster mounts, trappers are decent chaff, yhetees are funny vs cav, mournfangs hit like a brick, and the foot ogres aren't crazy but they do their job.

are there leaks from the cathay AJ showing the different color schemes?

>>95976019
I miss GW tongue in cheek like this. People say WHF was always grim, but this and 5th reminds me otherwise.

Good news, an old novel is being released in audiobook format.

>>95976019 #
I miss GW tongue in cheek like this. People say WHF was always grim, but this and 5th reminds me otherwise

>>95976432
The grim largely started in 6th. Before that it was a cartoon

>>95975541
Cathay are ruled by an infestation of alien monsters via an intermediary caste of half-monster cuckspawn. And they love it

>>95975646
That sounds extremely bad.

>>95976566
but miao ying is cute so its fine

Games been out 18 months now, probably long enough for it to establish itself alongside earlier WFB editions.
Are base adapters still the way to go or have people just accepted the bigger sizes?

>>95976617
It has to be highly region specific but I’ve never seen anyone in my city playing anything but TOW

I'm the guy who snaps pictures of heavily discounted Dominion and TOW boxes in stores to post them in aosg and wfg.

>>95976600
>>95975541
>High Elves
>tame dragons, ride them, bonds with them as masters
>Cathay
>the exact opposite

>>95976617
>Are base adapters still the way to go
no, larger trays are superior
singular base adapters are cancer

>nerf poison, the main counter to dragons
>dragon lords still allowed triple stacking saves
GW take that dragon dick out of your mouth, and no the pity 5 str 3 attacks infantry is getting back now don’t help

painted some additional chaos dwarfs figures to reach 2000pts. Time for some classic metal wood elves for the next three weeks

>>95976674
>still allowed triple stacking saves
I thought they changed pretty much all items that allowed that to not work on monsters, and only infantry/cavalry

who can still get 3+ 5++ 5+++?

>>95976651
>has to put braces on his minis just so they dont break the rules

this game system is such shit. why cant they just have base sizes be a range, like infantry can be 20mm-30mm, solve this whole problem in one go and save a lot of people a lot of headaches

>>95976600
She's a good girl and I'd follow her into battle to protect the peaceful lands of the east. And YinYin, but don't tell her that.

>>95976704
if you played the game you would know how base sizes affect things

>>95976704
Because warhammer is infested with "goofy goobers" that just want to break and stretch the rules for any advantage.
Oh, I need to be within movement to attack? Okay good thing I managed to somehow fit my saurus on 20s.
And GW wants their money so they won't tell them to fuck off.

>>95976704
You’re supposed to base the movement trays like the bases so they look seamless as a unit

>>95976704
>nogame reveals himself

>>95976683
Not that I can see talisman of protection is still available. Seed of rebirth is still there for elves

Thoughts on the old ogre box for AoS? It’s 945 points before upgrades but the Leadbelchers are kinda shit right?
Bulls are required, tyrant is good, mournfang are great and the iron blaster is great?

>>95976600
This. Miao Ying is a cute girl who loves men.

>>95975541
Anon, the dwarfs ancestor gods literally were sharing one wife.
Elves fuck more human women than dwarfs will ever do.

>>95976761
Depends if you’re playing the renegades list leadbelchers are less shit and bulls aren’t mandatory

>>95976758
ok, so high elves can still stack
anyone else?

>>95976644
Meanwhile I can't find any physically discounted.

>>95976762
Cathayan dragons are like reverse elves where instead of repulsion to humans they find them irresistibly endearing.
Which explains why there's so many Shugengan and almost no half-elves.

>>95976784
Wood elves can with less emphasis on the armour side, Chaos lords can, ogres can

>>95976761
Make sure you remove the stormie helmet from the Tyrant's trophy rack

>>95976740
>>95976718
if the game system is so weak that a couple millimeters difference in base size breaks the game, its a bad game system.

>>95976827
According to your wife there is a 'few millimeters difference" between you and I but your 'tiny base' just doesn't cut it.

>>95976827
And yet you're leeching here instead of going to whatever other general for a good game system which you totally play.

I am looking towards a 500 game event next month and in preparation, I am looking at tactics for my army.

My army consists of

- 1 Champion on Daemonic Mount + Lance + Mok
- 4 Knights, Lance, Shields + MoK
- 8 Warriors, Sword and Board + MoK
- 8 Marauders, Flails + MoK
- 2 units of 5 Warhounds

Normally my tactic is to put a 5 wide screen of hounds 2 inches in front of my knights, run up field, bait a charge, hounds run through knights, knights counter charge.

However, I realised if I do this and a smart opponent DOESN'T charge my hounds, or kill them, my knights are stuck.

What is a good way to bypass this?

I was thinking

--W---------- W-----
-----KKCKK---

W are hounds, KKCKK are the knights and Champion. Would having the hounds in a top/down straight line to create a "lane" for my knights to charge work or is it better to do the standard left/right straight screen?

>>95976860
so, something you learn when you grow up is that you can in fact be a fan of something AND criticize it. just because this incarnation of fantasy's ruleset is weak in this regard doesnt mean i hate fantasy or even this edition. just this aspect of the game system is weak and breaks under even the slightest tension

Any canonically gay characters yet?

>>95976914
The player.

>>95976914
The deputy high wizard of Middenheim has been a lesbian since 1989.
There are probably others here and there. Lahmians, for instance.

>>95976815
its not a stormie helmet, its an unlucky metal wizard

Where do you get ghouls and zombies from?

>>95976897
>this incarnation of fantasy's ruleset
base sizes have mattered in this way in all editions, get your head out of your ass, tourist

>>95977022
The store.

>>95977014
it could also be a cathayan metal wizard, they use metal golden masks too

with some appropriate fancy decorations painted on top

>>95976914
beastmen and beastmen players don't discriminate on who their next victim is

>>95977022
for ghouls it depends on what design of ghouls you want to have, for zombies, the premier plastic kits are mantic's, fireforge's and wargame atlantic's, with a healthy mix of them you get a good variety and number of bodies.
to go even cheaper you have to look for zombicide (black plague) lots on chinese ebay sellers, but they are potentially out of scale and very monopose.

>>95977014
Don't be lazy

>>95977022
Heresy has the best for both

Looks like C7 finally replaced the Andy Law Reikland map in their books with a new one in the recent book releases

>>95977034
>>95977037
Thanks gents will be having a good browse.

>>95977052

>>95977056
It's not good or bad, it's just a thing that's happened.
the old map for comparison

>>95977071
better resolution version

>>95977052
which era is this?

>>95977081
Karl Franz 2514 era since it's for WFRP

>>95977085
thanks.
I was asking because C7 is also releasing a TOW book, as you propably know.
I would also be interested in maps from that.

>>95977090
The Talabacland map is already up and a map of the Empire overall, but that's just a reskin of the pre-existing GW map.

>>95977052
Looks lile it has the locations in the same places, though.
Also totally different to the GW master map (see location of Karak Azgaraz).

>>95977093
>Castle Obelstein
Now there's a fucking reference. I guess that is technically Ostland.

>>95977093
thanks once more

>>95977122
I would guess the new cartographer just based the location placements on the Law map, as for Karak Aggaraz location on the Old World Map only makes sense out of universe, as they didn't want a Dwarf Karak on Brettonian Land since it makes the Duchy of Paravon look even smaller than it already is.

>>95977093
>Barren Hills
reeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I know GW fucked it up, but this was your opportunity to fix their mistake.

>>95977146
They do address the retcon in the players' guide, but it's still very clearly a retcon and gets final say

>>95977158
That's fair enough, I guess, but it just kicks the can down the road. Now it's just the timeline of Dagmar von Wittgenstein that's wrong instead.

>>95976432
The Citadel Journal army is not written by GW, Citadel Journal published homebrew content.

>>95977145
Putting the border of Bretonnia next to the Grey Mountains is just weird. That's not how borders work.
If they wanted Parravon to be bigger, they should have shuffled things around a little to give it more breathing space. I swear, each subsequent map crams it tighter and tighter between Athel Loren and the Grey Mountains so now it's basically just a city-state with no farmland.

>>95976860
This isn't a TOW thread, this is a Warhammer thread. If anything, you TOWonlys should make your own general since this general was always for Warhammer before your game even existed in anyone's minds.

>>95977052
>Falkenhayn
>Wittgenstein
>Wallenstein
>Jungfreud
I get. what are Hardenburg and Saponatheim referencing?

>>95977243
Read 'von Saponatheim' out loud.

>>95977243
the Saponatheims are the nobles who technically own Boganhafen from Castle Grauenburg and they part of the Adventure Natasha's Wedding

>>95977250
I still don't get it.

>>95977257
(V)once upon a time.

I once ordered very old minis from the gw website in 2006-7 or something. mostly funny chaos wizards and elemenals I think. I wonder if I should strip the paint and repaint them. This was one of them.

Would these nibbas work as khorne chosen?

>>95976801
Given that Longma are dragon-blooded horses it seems like Cathayan dragons don't limit their 'affections' to their humans alone.

>>95977280
Forgot pic coz tarded

>>95977286
these are such ugly models

>>95977282
Do you think shugengen lords would take after their ancestors in that regard?

>>95977286
Do they read as elite Khorne warriors? Sure. Should you inflict their hideousness on the world while giving money to the AoS studio? Up to you.

Are there any armies that offer as much variety in list building as Beastmen?

Bretonia seems limited to knights on horses and filthy peasants,
Dorfs all look the same

>>95976704
>why would specific base size matter in this game where movement and maneuvering is so important?

Gee I don't know anon

>>95977223
And specific base size has matter in every version of warhammer, go back.

im a simp for elector countess emmanuelle

should I collect a nuln army?

>>95977326
Orcs & Goblins.
You have:
Generic Grand army
Troll Horde
Nomadic horde
Goblin armies

>>95977282
>Miao Ying rewards loyal horses by letting them fuck her and giving birth to a new bloodline of Longma.
>Zhao Ming probably just fucks random mares when he's horny.
I don't know how to feel about these implications.

>>95977286

They're too big AND too ugly.

>>95977223
Do you think base sizes weren't relevant before tow? it's true what they say, the mother of retards is always pregnant.

>>95977351
>>95977412
TOW already lets you pick your base size for beastmen characters and greater demons, obviously it's not that important.

>>95976827
It doesn't really matter unless you're a tourneyfag. My group uses a mix of old and new bases and there's no problems.

>>95977428
you stupid?

>>95977286
They look better with helmets but the flailing poses don't really help much once on square bases and in a regiment, they can work as basis for a hero or a unit filler, but otherwise for plastic khorne chosen I think you're way better off starting from the undivided plastic chosen (with skullcrushers helmets), the blood warriors (even if they require some heavy work on their pauldrons, some helmets and the punch things, in my opinion), or avatars of war "warriors of wrath".

>>95977428
>obviously it's not that important.
Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about, it's massively more important for units than it is for heroes.

>>95977282
The thing is, we don't know if longmas are the result of royal dragons mixing with animals or if they're draconic in the same sense wyverns are distant relatives of dragons.

>>95977428
I can't believe you went from normal retard to MEGA RETARD

Go back to wherever you came from tourist

>suffer stroke
>barely able to hold up the brush for prolonged periods of time
>still make a godly beastman artwork

>>95977486
kopinski had a stroke?

Fuck.

>>95977486
His and Gallagher's art are my favourite

>>95977428

Do you actually play Old World? Do you play any other game using bases? Are you going to make the same conclusions with 40k or AoS? Because they use the same basing rules.

What is the best kit value-wise to get lots of khorne bits to help me convert my WoC models to have mark of khorne?

>>95977093
>>95977052
Way too much forest. Where do they farm?

>>95974937
Seconding Araby, given they had rules in Warmaster and have been mentioned in the armybooks of Bretonnia, the Empire, the Tomb Kings, Lizardmen (Southlands), and even Warriors of Chaos 7th.

The Mordheim supplement Relics of the Crusades might now be semi-canon, as one of the tribes, the Turjuks, was mentioned in the Tomb Kings Arcane Journal as well.
>>95975008
Chariot stonks are up, since you could arguably impact hit a champion before the issuance of challenges. The Warpfire Dragon is now more vulnerable to cannons with the new regen nerf 'normalizing' the damage they take from multi-wound attacks; combined with their base 4+ save, and lack of an innate Ward vs nonmagic attacks, and suddenly, cannons miiight have a use.

>>95977545

Araby could be cool, janissary handgunners behind palisades, madcap deli cavalry, disciplined and heavily armoured sipahis and Mamelukes, shitty azap levies, djinns, maybe even armoured war elephants...

>>95977524
https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/Citadel-Skulls-2017

>>95976566
>>95976762
If the games' lore count, it was implied most shugengan come from zhao ming cause he takes after his mother the moon empress and he's the dragon child who likes humans the most, so he's the one that mixes the most with them.

>>95977588
Objectively incorrect, skulls are on every other kit, including empire state troops

>>95974610 (OP)
>TQ
I would say Nippon because GW said they were on schedule in building 30 new stores in Japan. Whatever goodwill Sucker Punch did with Ghost of Tsushima, Ubisoft destroyed it with Assassin's Creed Shadows.

>>95974937
If GW ever wants add another minority race army, they really need to do a Leagues of Votunn rework for them. FFS, the clans of Nippon are named after modern day Japanese car companies, they have softdrink branded monks, and they worship a orange car. I highly doubt any native Japanese sensitivity team today would approve any this.

>>95974610 (OP)
>TQ
Nippon 100%, I want an army of samurai, oni and kitsunes.

>>95977613
you do not understand how nice that kit is until you have it.

>>95977451
Blood warriors are too small, to the point that I dont even really want to use mine as warriors.
>>95977286
You can as thats what I was going to do (theyre not too big at all) but the other Anon is right. You will need to convert them a lot and used the helmed heads for them to fit the tone better. I would add fur cloaks and maybe weapon swap them so that they can rank up. The normal new chosen looks great but a simple khorne headswap isnt really that much difference. That and you HAVE to use greatweapons on them.

>>95977524
avatars of war warriors of wrath + box of bloodreavers

>>95977491
he's had several, as well as a heart attack, as side effects of chemo for his cancer treatment.

dudes in rough shape

>>95977524
Don't buy boxes for bits, nowadays it's simply not viable.
https://gofile.io/d/hX8vuf
Grab this, extract the helmets, shields and other bits you want, find a local printing service, and get them done in bulk.

>>95977685
what the fuck does "not viable" mean lol

Would you ever wear any Warhammer merch in public?

>>95977540
While I would say most WFRP maps tend to over exaggerate the amount of forest in them for artistic effect pic shows the area around Middenheim, which most people just treat as a pure forest, but most of the duchy has been cleared of woodland
As for the two locations in the maps shown off.
Reikland farms mostly exist in the Vorbergland, which is a bunch of plains between the Reikwald forests and the Grey Mountains.
Talabacland is just a Forest, a Great Forest even. They got most of their food from Stirland since the Elector Count of Talabacland controls Stirland at this point in timeframe during TOW, after that, IDK.

>>95977714
It's not a good path to follow, you pay too much and get too little out of it.

>>95977740
If you aren't buying random kits and throwing the sprues in your storage bin after clipping out the one bit you wanted to be used for some other as yet unknown project 4 years from now, you aren't going to make it as a kitbasher

>>95977717
I have never found merch that wasn't branded in an overly obnoxious way, I don't want text, I don't want titles, I don't want copyright or trademark symbols, so no warhammer merch will ever be fine to me.

Look at this shit, it's mind boggling.

>>95977738
Is thugenheim where all those models gw has shown lately come from

>>95977757
Yeah but the blood warrior kit is £40 at retail and the extra bits you get arent very much, especially given youre using the bodies as well I presume.
>>95977685
BASED Anon providing me with WHF Khorne bits so that I can actually start them. I couldnt find shit on cults etc.

>>95977781
If your limiting factor is money and not hobby time you should go get a job

>>95977835
Thats really the point. Its just stupid to buy a box for a unit you will never use at all for crap amount of bits. Ive bought boxes for bits before. Thats normal and I often use the bodies years later. The blood warrior kit I used the heads for by Khorne Bloodbowl team and have built the unit for TOW. They are stubby af models and you dont get many weapons. projecting that Im a poorfag is stupid when its more that kit itself is crap for bits if you also want to use the bodies and if you dont its not worth the money. You only get 10 helmets in the box for 10, thats not very good is it?

>not just selling the stuff you won't use

>>95977867
To add to the point Im the Anon who's WoC army is mostly the new AoS range. Ive bought (admittignly at discount) 4 boxes of the new chosen just for a 20 man unit. At retail is ~£160. Im more committed to spendign money for aesthetic provided its actually worth the money. The Blood warrior kit if its just for bits really isnt.

>>95977867
Agree with this
i found a guy on etsy that had some nice looking TK skeleton heads to fill out the rest of my archers and even some cool greco-roman esque helmets I used on skeleton horse archers.
I could have scoured ebay for extra heads but it would have cost more, a lot more.

>>95977835
Some things are not worth the asking price no matter the amount of spare money you have.

They look like crap as well IMO, I was going to run them as my Khorne chosen but the other unit is better. Blood Warriors dont even look like proper chaos warriors and I doubt a greenstuff cloak would fix it either. the proportions are just AoS 1st ed terrible.

Newly recruited Knights Pantherchads checking in

>>95977919
Holy shit I knew blood warriors were bad, but that's REALLY bad.

>>95977925

Out of all the chaos gods Khorne should not be getting mogged. And I say that as a manlet irl.

>>95977889
It depends on what you like to do. If you're working on a very specific project where your troops are going to be uniform, buying kits just for different heads is not sensible. That's an easy 3d printer use case. If you're a habitual kitbasher who just likes to build weird shit all the time (me), buying kits on a whim is a great option, because while digging in your sprue box years later you'll see a perfect bit you bought ages ago for something you're doing now.

Once you hit a critical mass of sprues where you can do almost anything you want on a whim (especially if you have a printer handy to supplement) armies like chaos and vc become incredibly fun.

>>95977925
Last one

>>95977937
Especially by Slaanesh troops.

>>95977931
first gen aos was a really black time for gw models, the aos khorne range really fucking sucks due to being from that era.

>>95977925
I would add some slight weathering to the text, it stacks out quite badly as is.

>>95977897
Poor fag mentality, there is absolutely a point where your time becomes more valuable than your money you just never reached it.

>>95977685
The sharing GOD strikes again. You're appreciated round these parts

>>95977966
>says the guy wasting time pretending to be rich on 4chan

>>95977835
false dichotomy, there's no difference in time between using bits from boxes or bits from printing services.

>>95977984
you legit don't have to be rich, just employed more than part time at the grocery store. If you're bean counting cost about your hobbies you are underemployed for your hobbies. I do not get into classic cars even though I like them because I can not afford to throw around 5 figures on something without worry. I do warhammer because I can easilt through around 4 figures withotu worry and that's all it costs to have fun with this. If I had to buy dogshit mantic models instead of the models I wanted to save 20 bucks I would not do this hobby. If I couldn't afford an airbrush and a printer I would not do this hobby.

>>95977999
Or people just would rather spend the money on OTHER hobbies not that they cant afford it. You seem to assuem they either can or cant pay for it, which isnt what is being discussed. Its whether its worth it for bits. I bought one box to use heads for my BB team. It was expensive af but worth it. buying it for the scale of WHF Khorne army reaches a point where its just retarded.

>>95978009
I'm not defending the blood warrior kit, it's ass and it has almost no parts I'd use, I'm attacking the initial question of "what's the cheapest way to get Khorne bits", if you have to ask go play video games or get a better job.

You should calibrate your life so you focus on doing things you want to do with good tools and good materials without having to look for pennies, if you have to scrimp and save to do things you want to do, you either need to make more money, or drop some hobbies so you have the funds to do the ones you really care about properly. The limiting factor in your life should not be deciding to spend money on this hobby or that hobby, it should be spending hours on this hobby or that hobby.

>>95977940
thats fair i dont disagree with you on that

>>95978033
Our point is that its projecting or besides the point to mention that. You can reframe the question as 'Anyone got any good sources of Khorne bits?' which is a valid question as I didnt know about files someone linked and just did others stuff instead. Prior to downloadign them I was just going to convert WE-chaos marine heads to not have a front grill.

Tbh mate it just sounds like youre a larping nouveau riche faggot or you dont really understand that I can spend the money etc. but its just a waste even from a hobby perspective as you end up with crap you dont use and throw away (you will be lucky to sell certain stuff). Or any other hassle which eats into the time aspect. This will differ between kits which is what the initial question is really about. 'Is this kit worth it for what X project?'. Its about efficiency in multiple aspects just money is the main and easiest one to go to and the one that has the most weight on a value proposition. For myself I thought the £40 or whatever I spent was worth it for the helmets for my bloodbowl team. I can afford to buy the kit numerous times for heads for a full WHF army. But why the fuck would I do that? Especially given I could use other models, get different (arguably better) bits from other kits or files. Or go as far as 3D scanning the bits and making stls for them. The last one seems like a ball ache past the point I care, for others it might not be but having knowledge of these things is useful and good for the thread.

Two questions, since you guys seem to know your shit:
Are the Blood Warriors in the kit and in the "Spearhead" box the same, or are they ETB?

Would Blood Warrior heads fit on regular Chaos Warrior bodies?

>>95978033
>I'm attacking the initial question of "what's the cheapest way to get Khorne bits", if you have to ask go play video games or get a better job.

Thats silly tho. Ignoring the option of getting a load of printed bits for the same price as a plastic set is just not very smart. Its not like getting 3d printed bits is a "poor mans choice", or an inferior option in any way. If anything, its superior because it would allow him to get exactly those heads, those banners etc he wants for his project, and not some random stuff on a sprue without usage for most other pieces there.

Getting something printed for $40 or whatever that kit might cost is clearly the way to go. But you are right in the regard that if that little amount of money is hurting to spend, then their focus clearly should be on getting more money somehow first, and hobby second.

>>95976617
I just keep using old bases and no one seems to care

>>95977999
>because I can easilt through around 4 figures withotu worry
would you easily throw around 4 figures without worry for 6 helmets?
No you wouldn't, regardless of how much money you did.

You're out of touch with reality and arguing like an edgy teen.

>>95978092
There was an ETB version of them, but not sure if they keep using them.

>Would Blood Warrior heads fit on regular Chaos Warrior bodies?

They fit on CSM, and WHFB chaos warrior heads fit on those just as well. So they should fit.

>>95976617
this >>95978094

nobody gives a damn anymore. GW has changed base sizes for shit so many times (and everyone knows they'll continue to do it) so nobody sweats it. just use whatever it's already on.

>>95978092
This spearhead? yes, same sprues as the full kit, not the ETB ones.

Also yes for the helmets.

>>95977925
Cool anon, knights panther were my first order I painted too.

>>95978116
Blood crushers were a mistake

>>95978136
I'd be somewhat fine with them if they just said fuck it and made Vashtor a 5th chaos god as it stands i've got to wonder why Khorne has the most high tech army.

>>95978116
>Spearhead gone
>know that GW, being retarded, doesn't allow you to search for things that are out of stock for some reason
>look for it manually
>it's completely fucking gone
Khornebros, our response?

>>95978092
See the above images for the heads they will fit. My idea (that Ive partly done) is to use the mono god warrior kit for marked chosen, and excess bits mixed in with warrior bodies for marked warriors (it works for both the AoS and TOW warrior kits).

Pic related is AoS warriors with nurgle blightking bits added. I can get a picture of similar bits for the old warrior kit (theyve got other shit on as well as theyre forsaken) but there was no issue. At worst you might have to greenstuff some weird heads but helmet ones especially Khorne ones are fine.

>>95978136
>>95978146
I will not tolerate Juggernaut slander!

>>95977984
Jokes on you I'm at work so I'm getting shitposting AND getting paid

>>95978116
These are really up there for the ugliest GW models ever made

>>95978100
You dont need "4 figures" for some helmets, but maybe for a new army you might think is fun to own.
And if you can do that, you can buy a random kit for some bits without bigger thought too. Or get some stuff printed without counting every penny.
If you start to think about every little penny you spend on your hobby, looking for cheaper alternatives all the time, then you probably shoul invest that amount of research and time into making more money in the first place.

>>95978148
Use the NOT-Khorne chosen kit for Khorne Chosen (Wrathmonges or whatever its called) and just convert it to not be shit with bits and greenstuff. The kit mostly looks bad due to GW's heavy metal paint style looking like crap for anything with 5748303048393 edges.

So Games workshop squatted any 8th edition unit that doesn't have an official model, yet propose rules for forsaken, warped gors and other units that also don't have models

>>95978173
The point he's making is that youre thinking its a binary 'afford : cant afford' thing, wherein its worth it past a certain amount of money available. In reality theres a 2nd threshold which is more grey/loosely defined where it just becomes stupid spending that money that way, specially when you can do it cheaper and more efficiently another way.

>>95978033
>>95978093
I don't think it's even that. it's just that "just print it bro" vs "buy kits for the bits" has become the latest battleground for the Can-Do Hobby mentality vs the Consume Product mentality. which is a fight that's been going on since long before 3d printing was in the discussion. it's fucking religion. neither side will ever gain any ground or find a way to reason with the other.

3d printing offers the ability to get bits in any quantity you need, exactly the bits you want, same day and it's cheap. the downside is the entry cost of taking on a whole 'nother sub-hobby. for the Can-Do Hobby crowd, those advantages are so compelling they can't even understand why someone would do anything else. but for Consume Product guys, it's incomprehensible. why would you want to do more work so you can buy less?

buying kits for bits used to be considered a necessary evil by the hobby people, but for the Must Consume player it had a very different purpose - it gave you an excuse to buy kits you otherwise didn't need. it fed the hoarder impulse in a way that stls archived on an HD never could. if consuming product is the point for you then you're never going to acknowledge an argument that's coming from a place of DIY. it would defeat the purpose.

>>95978178
are those in the grand army list or only in the AJ?
the latter often have units that are not sold and need to be kitbashed.

>>95976651
Trays are the way to go, I agree. Painting the edges is mandatory though. They really won't look good if you don't do that! As for that specific kind of 3d-printed segregated tray... I do have some of them, but I don't think they're really necessary unless you're playing in a very hardcore tournament, though the new rules regarding who can attack will probably change that. Either way, the new base sizes are stupid! 20/25mm is still what you should be using. Someday, we'll all be playing the older editions again.

>>95978207
AJ. But since they're doing that, they should bring back the hierotitan for tomb kings

>>95976651
these are the best option, you can magnetize them and if they have holes on the bottom you can magnetize that too for secure storage and transport in a tub with sheet metal on the bottom.

>>95978225
a new dual kit for colossus/hierotitan would be cool
the bone giant is absolute trash

>>95978207
Forsaken are in the main list

>>95978203
I see your point, but here it does not 100% apply i think, because if Anon were a pure "consooomer", then he could just pay someone to print the things for him.
And i dont think anyone would recommend to buy a printer for the sole purpose of printing 6 helmets and an axe or whatever we are discussing here.

Ignoring prints is just no longer a viable option in 2025 i think, even if you dont want to own and operate a printer yourself, or simply do not have the space for one.

>it gave you an excuse to buy kits you otherwise didn't need.

Some people might indeed need that, but they are helpless anyway.

>>95978136
I agree
the redundancy in the CHAOS range is truly heartbreaking, and what's worse is that alleged chaos fans ask for nothing other than more redundancy
>I want that thing but spiky
>I want that thing but mortal
>I want that thing but red/blue/pink/green
>I want that thing but without mutations
all this because a concept intended to be a heaven for converting other models has been inherited by a company whose interests have developed to be against the hobby, and that decided the chaos ranges should be split

I genuinely hate it

>>95978255
true. the only Tomb King kit I dont really want to get

>>95978178
It's weird how you can see the influence of different factions within GW.
Someone desperately wants to keep AoS separate from TOW. But someone on the TOW team keeps slipping in rules for AoS models (squig hoppers with armour and lances, that goblin special character on the wolf, bombards and handguns for Bretonnians).
There's an internal conflict over whether rules require official models or not and both sides have had victories.

>>95978302
Why do people use redundancy like this in tabletop?

Redundant means something is no longer useful or of no use. What does redundancy mean is this new Californian speak cause it makes no semse here.

>>95978302
I agree with the picture, each could have been a dual assembly kit instead of two separate ones for each faction.

>>95978302
I want redundancy in the following way:
Monogod and undivided version of some core units or their own equivalent units. I dont give a rats ass about AoS for rules wise but for modelling this stuff is great. The Hellriders of Slaanesh in your pic I use as maruader horsemen with MoS for instance. It creates model variety and excess bits to use for other stuff. This is also why I refuse to make a Tzeentch army until they release a Tzeentch warrior kit for AoS as (assuming it isnt shit) Id use it for MoT chosen and then use excess bits for MoT warriors.

The split only annoys AoS players and 40k 190th fags who think a kit IS the unit and not just a rough model used to represent the unit. They dont like the idea of a model having a vague description or think a kit being tied to a certain range means they cant use it for conversion purposes.

>>95978330
Redundancy in that context means theres alternate options for the same thing. If you had excess amounts of organs in your body you would have redundancy as your first heart could be destroyed but youre alive due to the second. To give a relevant example the chaos warrior unit has kit reduancy as you can use the old kit, the new one, or any warrior like one. The loss of any doesnt fuck you over as badly as a consumer (it arguably causes issue with stocking and production for GW but who cares). 'Redundancy' has contextual meaning.

>>95978350
Huh ok. Thank you for the explanation. Also just realised it's an engineering term transferred to tabletop.

>>95977770

I still wanted a T-Shirt for issue 181 just so I can wear something with the words "Chaos Space Marine inside!" on it.

>>95978156
>>95978092

Guys quick question... but are Chaos Warriors (the unit type) actually good now, with the FAQ changes?

>Got their Armour 3+ back thanks to Parry
>Can fight in 2 ranks again... unless they charge.
>Halberds are AP-2 on the Charge now.
>Can switch between weapons whenever they want.

>>95978431
Good is a strong word. They are now at least viable but too early to make any clear cut assumptions.

That said, they were sometimes used as bunkers so now they better at that role than before. I got use from them even before the changes but I know competitive commentary is biblical in the main.

>>95975956
Absolutely kino pic
>new infantry rules
Are Dwarfs just fucked? 3 inch M has never hurt as bad as in TOW and now it's gotten worse...

Is there a reason to not run sisters of the thorn in msu

>>95978475
shouldnt have linehammered

>>95978475
Dwarfs are in a really good spot right now, you just can't linehammer, being in decent sized blocks with artillery forcing people to come to you is a fantastic position to be in.

>>95978302
The biggest mistake GW ever made was blowing up WHFB. The second biggest was splitting up the chaos demons into seperate armies.

>>95978431
Infantry won't get to charge. Infantry won't want to charge. Yes, chaos warriors are generally better now. You'll have to run them with the mark of chaos undivided though, because every other mark is now completely worthless with maybe perhaps sometimes the sole exception of the mark of slaanesh.

>>95978330
>Redundant means something is no longer useful or of no use.
No, it doesn't mean just that, go look up the etymology.

>>95978508
>Infantry won't get to charge
why does my infantry gets to charge in every game?

>>95978203
The printer is not the be all end of all hobby by any means, it's a supplementary tool. It has some superb use cases for a project, like printing details you'll use on the bases for an army, weapons you want in greater quantity, interesting heads, ect, but the universal "just print it bro" mindset for everything is not one of creative energy, it's the mindset of someone who comes to the table with a slapchopped highland miniatures army.

>>95978487
>>95978488
Help me out here - how it not a disaster that everyone else is getting way more attacks? Like fine, Dwarfs don't linehammer - a narrower rank means less attacks, now COMPOUNDED by the enemy getting proportionaly more no? I never line hammered mine, ran long busses mostly. I know this only applies to infantry v infantry but still feels like we will be out classed by everything.

>>95978508
MoT is ok for sorcerer bunkers, and for going against trolls. The magic resistance got stealth buffed by the universal magic changes. MoN is still worthless and MoK is crap on anything but mounts or cav.

>>95978203
>exactly the bits you want

Except that's not ture lol if I want the bits that are in a kit I'm going to struggle to find that exact bit out there on its own, people might recreate or pirate GW models in their entirety but very rarely bits. Any bit you'll find online might be the same type but very rarely exactly what you wanted.

Post models

>>95978521
Dwarfs having great weapons attacking in 2 rows while (lets say 6x2, maybe even 7x2 the opponents being out at least as wide so the front row are all b2b and the row behind can still hit in the 2nd fighting rank) the opponent gets 1 row to attack with, youll probably lose a few dwarfs but be able to attack with so many more. Unless they give ground restrain and reform and blast them with shooting. Stick a few characters in a unit of Hammers and force the opponent to deal with them due to weight of points contained in the unit while you pepper them with stuff, have rangers with GW as chaff firing out stuff as well to clog up the board as they make their way to you. The way to go with Dwarfs against most things will be a big castle with artillery with chaff as roadblocks on the way.

>>95978508
Your chaos warriors with halberds will absolutely still want to charge state troops

>>95978521
Because dwarves are almost exclusively defensive and all the buffs are focused on infatry units being better at defense. You getting 2x as many attack if I charge you as a dwarf player doesn't matter because I only have M 3 lol, I wasn't getting to charge in the first place.

>>95978537
printer worshippers like to pretend you can find ANYTHING! you want when in reality there might be 1-3 options that are passable as the unit you want, most of which will be totally unsuably ugly or disproportionate, non multipart, and there's like a 20% chance you can find a scan if you know where to look

>>95978544
paint the eyes lazybones

>>95978544
Albino eh?

>>95978571
Not really albino, just pale in general, otherwise the fur would also have been white-ish

>>95978575
I like the little fern on his base

>>95978559
>>95978547
Right, I guess I'm just more concerned with combat after your opponents charge and they get their M value worth of linehammer attacks and the 2nd rank. I am very happy with the magic changes tho, I think our magic defense is much better now. The fucking dispell range change to be vs the spell not the caster alone made my day. Fucking mounted elf casters vs m3 Runesmith LMAO ok

>>95978578
Thanks, I am aiming to make a taiga/boreal/northern looking forest look to my dudes since they come from a part of the forest of shadows that lies on the borders of Ostland and Kislev, so adding ferns and mushrooms give a great feeling to that

>>95978597
https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-mushroom-collection-122517

If you have a printer, I like these, I use them for my projects.

>>95978586
>I guess I'm just more concerned with combat after your opponents charge and they get their M value worth of linehammer attacks and the 2nd rank.

You shouldn't be looking to try and charge if they break and FBIGO, all that is doing is giving them that scenario you're worried about, restrain and continue to hurt them in ranged if they don't want to come in again, you are a rock, a turtle and all you want to do is stay absorbing charges with a deep block and some runes + things giving combat res you shouldn't be losing combat and running off the board.

>>95978514
Perhaps because your local meta permits you to do so? I don't know, anon, you tell me. M4 infantry has a max charge distance of 10". You're not going to be making many charges, mathematically.
>>95978524
I really dislike the idea that a sorcerer bunker makes the mark of tzeentch acceptable. That is not, by any means, as good as people say it is. It can work, certainly, but it's going to be an incredibly slow (remember, you can't march and shoot!), incredibly expensive (assuming shields + MoT, you're looking at 16ppm), and incredibly avoidable obstacle, all for a +1 to cast that goes away the instant your unit falls below US10 (which it almost certainly will). Yes, MR1 is actually worth something now (and so too is a +1 to your casting result, for similar reasons), but why would an enemy wizard even be casting anything on your tzeentch warrior bunker? He's far more likely to cast enchantments on his allies or cast whatever else on your other units. Sure, fiery attacks helps you deal with trolls, but it doesn't work on any other kind of regeneration! And how often are you going up against trolls, really? Also, the sorcerer bunker concentrates all your casting in one place. What if your opponent just maneuvers around your sorcerers? He'll get to cast whatever he wants and you won't be able to dispel him.
>>95978548
Setting aside the fact that this hypothetical combat is happening between arguably the most elite infantry & some of the worst infantry in the game, consider the following: Those chaos warriors will have been battered by several turns of shooting before they even get within 10" to charge. Not only that, but what if those state troopers have halberds of their own? They'll certainly be greater in number, which means they'll be getting more attacks and more static combat resolution. I can't speak about the math, because I can't be bothered to calculate it, but combat does not occur in a white room.

>>95978586
You might be at a relative disadvantage on the second round of combat in matchups like dwarf warriors vs black orcs, but you're almost always going to be on the recieving end of the charge where you're significantly buffed, and in any fight where you've got slow powerful attacks (all the great weapons) you've become MUCH stronger.

>>95978568
He should make them bright red like my caged gobbo here, complete the Albino look that he is in denial of

>>95978630
Wtf.

>>95978627
+1 to cast is much much stronger now (all sources of this are pretty crazy now, +3 to cast in the new world is big), steed of shadows exists so these units can be reasonably mobile, and flaming attacks do have more uses than just fighting trolls although they're niche.

All the marks are pretty bad, but the bunker can be reasonably functional.

brown or grey fur for his cloak?

>>95978647
>>95978630
new fag lol

>>95978658
front for colour reference

>>95978658
>>95978667
Brown

>>95978658
Gray would blend into the armour too much, go for brown

>>95978658
I think brown four looks nice with red capes. Here's two I did up recently. It kind of makes me regret doing the rest of my regiment with brown cloaks.

>>95978613
I get my basing stuff from Greenstuff World, they have some good stuff there too as I have no access to a printer.

>Spellweaver lvl 3, elven steed, heartwood pendant

>Glade guard x10, arcane bodkins
>Deepwood scouts x10, arcane bodkins

>Sisters of the thorn x5
>Treekin x3

>Treeman

How's this at 1k

>>95978667
long legged mac daddy

>>95978627
To add to what the other Anon said the bunker can be a good delivery unit for a combat sorcerer as well. Theyre of acceptable durability to accompany him (whether he charges or not). If you just want a magic missile bunker marauders are better.

>>95978544
Im leaving the unhelmed heads till I get all my other units done as Id rather atch all the faces. Beyond that I only need to make paper banners and add grass tufts. Ive got other units at a similar level but no good pics.

>>95978743
They are beautiful, I think too many people shy away from pink when it always looks rad on chaos models
I saw a beastmen army with the metals done in a shock bright pink and it looked superb

>>95978743
Closeups of a few.

>>95978761
Its just basecoats (I cba with highlights for most stuff but they work) then a heavy winsor magenta oil wash over the top and then partly removed. Ive done other colours as Im using WoC as a testing bed for this effect. Its work for other stuff but Ive either not got good pictures or its for 40k related stuff so Id not really be posting it here.

I do agree that weird colours work better for chaos. Plain green units for nurgle are of special annoyance to me.

>>95978771
I like your orange, the basing feels out of place for how striking your colors are though.

>>95978849
I want to add grass to it but I dont have any at the moment. The effect is more for the armour to look like its been corrupted where as the ground isnt. the heads will be mostly normal beyond horn growth etc.

Its mostly I couldnt be fucked with basing by the end and too much would detract from the model. They just need some grass.

>>95978652
>steed of shadows exists so these units can be reasonably mobile
Sure, and you could also have another level 4 casting arcane urgency and maybe your level 4 is also casting daemonic vigour to get you +1M. But will you? And at what cost? Let's say you're going full-bore and you're stuffing 2 level 4s (one with the skull of katam and probably battle magic/daemonology, and the other with the lore familiar and daemonology) and 3 level 1/2s, all on daemonology (because what other lore would you pick when daemonology gets you the summoning guaranteed?) in a unit of 15 warriors with a frontage of 10 (because that's what you'd need to have if you wanted all your wizards to be in the front rank). That's going to run you, at minimum, 1118 points. Your level 4s will be casting at +4, your level 1/2s will be casting at +3, and you'll always be dispelling at +2 (neither the skull of katam nor the mark of tzeentch give you a bonus to dispelling). But what will this bunker be casting? Remember, you can't get both the blue fire of tzeentch and your lore's signature spell (which makes level 2s a terrible option), and your level 4 with a lore familiar can't get the blue fire at all. Let's set aside magic missiles for now. Your level 4 battle mage will have to roll for his spells: You won't always get the spells you want, but taking a spell familiar (which brings this bunker up to 1133 points) brings down that 33% chance to not get one spell you want down to a 16.67% chance. Your level 4 daemonologist will always have SoS, DVig, DVess (probably not, actually, because you really don't want this unit to fight) and the summoning and your level 1s will always have either the blue fire or the summoning. I ask you this now: What will this actually accomplish? Sure, you'll cast your spells, but will that actually matter? What if you roll poorly? What if you miscast and blow up your precious, precious chaos warriors? What if your opponent just shoots your bunker? Think about it!

Oldhammer miniatures with modern paint jobs are simply peak.

>>95978936
That orc shaman is cheating, shit is timeless perfection.

>>95978888
Youre ovethinking this to WAACfag tier stuff where you make it where you stuff all your characters in (Your 10 frontage is uneeded). It works for:
>Take sorcerer
>can be either casting shit on other units and the unit is a deterrent/bunker. Or if he's built for melee you have a unit that can fight with him.
>You likely be running the warriors anyway, or you can change it to marauders if you want to be even more cheap. Regardless youve buffed a unit for a decent cost (yes the mark on its own is crap but in conjunction with other stuff its fine)
You dont have to go to the other extreme and put 3627403-2848340323 wizards into the one bunker JUST because you need to justify the mark. The excessive leaning on it basically makes it cost over the 2pts (or 1pt for marauders) that you put a sorcer in to justify it a bit more. It isnt great but it is no longer dogshit. Dumping even more points into it reverses that and makes it shit again as you rightfully claim. But anyone with half a brain wouldnt do that. Yes the mark is overcosted but it becomes worth it with a medium level of investment whilst being shit on its own or by overinvesting in the unit.

Also I hate this argument of 'you will never cast magic on it', Ive played loads of games where sometimes theres fuck all else for the enemy wizard to do so he casts it on that unit or you force him to cast it on the unit by whatever means etc. sure its not common but its not never ever tier. Over or under investing in the mark is the issue beyond their crap cost atm.

Now that infantry has double rank attacks, assuming a rank 7-8 men wide with 3 ranks, how many chaos knights would I need to safely tear apart the front? 7-8? More?

Or should I just go full in on Chosen Chaos Knights with 6 or 7 of them dumping nearly 20 attacks?

Lets assume the enemy is dwarfs with great weapons.

>>95978544

Do you still remove close combat casualties from the very front at base contact or the second rank?

>>95979075
single attack cav probably shouldn't be thrown into the front of great weapon infantry ever, that's the lion's jaws now. t4 3+ will get torn up, and even 9 lance strikes are only going to kill 5 dwarves or so. They'll get a few kills and have better combat res, so you won't break them, and after that it'll be a total slaughter with lance charge bonus. Unless you've got a character in there significantly increasing the unit's capacity for violence, it's just not a good idea.

>>95979124
From the back

>>95979114
https://youtu.be/qvXnECMtXbc?si=46A41cPS5ksJgfgY

I started working on it in the middle of the night and continued as soon as I had woken up. There are still a few layers of glue, sand, bark, and other adhesives before I can paint it, but more or less you can see what it is. The best thing about it is that I don't even play dwarfs and bought that one slayer for a scale reference.

>>95979137
By the ancestors... look at the craftsmanship...

>>95979137
The best thing about dwarfs is that there's plenty of holds in ruins scattered around and plenty of them full of riches and artifacts, even if nobody in your gaming group plays dwarfs, getting to claim this entrance and everything that lies within can be in the interests of any faction.

>>95979137
Very cool, where's that gate from?

Even for a non dwarf player, stuff like this pocks the old world, the gate to an abandoned dwarven mind is something nearly every faction would have good reason to squabble over. Very cool. Looking forward to seeing it finished. Are you making it part of an implied mountain so It'll be edge of the board terrain?

>>95979129
In that case, you should ram them from the flank assuming that their ranks are minimal i.e 2-3 ranks deep, potentially stopping retaliation all together.

If you ram a formation in the back, they still get double rank attack I assume? I guess in that case, wide formations will require a double charge, one from the front and one on the flank.

>>95979137
The thumb nail looked like a flying cloud of particles like you'd see on a nu-gw magic model and I was not sure what to expect before clicking.

>>95979131
I mean in terms of the fighting rank. Physically from the back but assuming you are fighting a 2 attack infantry unit. Do you remove the first set of casualties from the base to base contact models, reducing the 2 attack models or the support models in the second rank?

>>95979154
The gate is from Archon Studio. And yes, it's planned to be placed at the edge of the table.

>>95979164
I believe as the rules say "from the edges of the fighting rank" and you now how have two fighting ranks, it would be the edges of both ranks moving inward with no particular priority for 1st or 2nd rank?

I don't think it matters unless your unit has motly crew

>>95979152
>inb4 the slayer is not here because he made a vow to protect the riches of the hold, but because he wants to be the one to kill the ancient dragon that will emerge from those doors as soon as some ill-informed faction is dumb enough to blow up the doors before asking why they were sealed without a lock.

>>95979137
Beautiful work anon

>>95979171
Jesus, how does that work? First wound, base to base, second wound, second ranker, third base to base etc?

1 attack infantry, its obsolete but still.

>>95979167
Looks really cool, I love that feeling of getting into a fae mood and being almost possesed by some outer force to create that comes along every so often.

Like from dwarf fortress, which is appropriate.

>>95979114
based

>>95977003
One Lahmian in Middenheim is trying to seduce and turn said deputy high wizard.

>>95979194
Nice clean work anon. Talabecland(?) Is well defended

>>95978966
That's fair, taking it to such an extreme is a facile argument. Let's go with your example, with one sorcerer lord in a reasonably-sized bunker. ~40-50 points (but remember, you're still paying for the warriors themselves, so add 228 or more points to that) for a +1 to casting that can be taken away from you is good, it's about as much as you'd spend on the other ways to get a +1 to casting and dispelling and it doesn't come out of your magic item budget. That's amazing! That allows your level 4 to get a casting bonus while also being able to take an arcane item that's actually good. But that's the only real upside. Fiery attacks? Niche at best, actively working against you at worst. MR1? Okay, but the brazen collar is cheaper and you can put it on your unit champion. And there are downsides! Sticking a sorcerer in a unit heavily restricts his LoS and movement and incentivizes you to avoid fighting with that unit. Sure, if you're just using your sorcerer as a buff monkey that's not that big of a deal, but Fleshy Abundance is better for that sort of thing and if you want your unit to fight, why the hell are you taking the MoT or putting a sorcerer in there in the first place?
I'll address some of your points directly now:
>if he's built for melee you have a unit that can fight with him
You're paying all those points to make your sorcerer better at casting and you want to pay even more points to then make him fight? That's how you lose your sorcerer, or at the very least lose several turns worth of casting!
>the mark is overcosted but it becomes worth it with a medium level of investment
268 points is not a "medium level of investment". That's over an eighth of a 2000 point army (not counting the sorcerer himself, just the unit of warriors & the cost for the marks of tzeentch) that arguably makes your sorcerer worse in certain very important ways in exchange for a +1 to cast that can (and likely will) vanish once your opponent starts shooting.

>>95974610 (OP)
>TT
Great Plains race based on the different native American cultures mashed together. Another army that can play heavy skirmishers and reinforcements but more ranged focused. Lots of throwing weapons, bows, and elite rifles.
Don't think they exist in setting though so. Whatever.

>>95979335
North American native aesthetics are underused in Fantasy. What's even the biggest example, Tauren?

>>95974610 (OP)
The snake guys out of India? I just think they'd be cool models.

>>95979335
Definitely one of the more unique ideas I've seen. But yeah, there are no NA in the world.

>>95979269
Youre forgetting assailment spells which is what I meant by a combat sorcerer. Youre also assumign Im on about a lvl 4 wizard. A level 3 is good enough and a lvl 2 is still decent. This is my point, yopure seeign it as a unit to build an army around, Im proposing it as a side unit. The other benefits wont occur all the time but they are there. Theyre not gimped like the MoK, or next to worthless like the MoN. Youre also assuming from a WAAC standpoint that the unit is either always a stationary or slowly moving magic missile battery or a pure charging unit. In most games a small unit (which is what Im proposing) will have periods of both. This is a warrior unit, or a maruader unit. It wont be going in all the time nor hanging back either. In some scenarios you will need to charge, others will have them charge you. both have a reason for them to cast magic on you (I know as its happened to me) and for your sorcerer to do whatever.
>268pts is a lot
Yes it is if youre fuckign retarded and think its purely there to do WAACfag tier shit where the unit has one job and acts akin to a fucking aspect warrior unit in 40k where it does fuck all outside its niche. This is stupid and doesnt happen in games.

Its simply this, you have your sorcerer move up the field doing whatever he needs to do. Be that enchantign other units whilst shooting stuff, in which case the unit will be somewhat stagered (if you want a sorcerer to do your whole army use a different one or only that one and dont do this strategy) and can guard flank or be positioned to fuck over a unit approaching your main line units (Again this isnt your main unit right?) Or you have him move up the field shootign where he can and casting other shit playign the unit offensively. This depends on his spells (youre not taking daemonology every time either or using MoT for blue fire every time in reverse).

1/2

>>95979335
I once headcanoned a faction like that, but instead of having all the native american stuff it was predominantly centaurs of non-chaotic origin.

>>95979269
>>95979400
2/2

Stop thinking that you have to exclusively have your wizard be a pussy sitting back all game enchanting units (after which for WoC you cant even cast stuff when theyre in combat or use some of the daemonology spells you may/will get), or that you MUST take a level 4 and cant use the points elsewhere. Youre also thinking the warrior or marauder unit ONLY complements the wizard instead of them boosting each other. Youre not even entertaining the idea that your just using a mid level wizard to boost a unit youd be takign in your line anyway.

Are there better builds? Sure, but you can netlist the shit out fo the game. The fact that every faggot was taking a lvl 4 and a dragon every game is telling of this. This doesnt mean that everythign besides it is useless. The MoT can be made to work and be useful. Its niche but isnt totally worthless like you claim it is. Claiming as such is sayign its the same as MoN which it blows out of the water.

>>95979361
The Snake guys are from Kuresh so would be Burmese/Thai/Vietnamese

>>95974610 (OP)
>>Thread Question:
>If you could choose a completely new army to add to the game, which would you choose?
I would give precedence to one of the named but unrealised factions. But if I had to make a completely new one, with no basis on previous mentions or other fluff, I'd make evil dragon wizards from the southpole, with kobold and dragonborn servants, more classic sword&sorcery designs over a proper historical reference.

>>95975028
How about, a human, getting crushed into a chariot wheel à la temps moderne, with either: "circling your life" or " 'all khornin' around!" ?

>>95979124
You remove models from the back but the models "dying" during a combat have to be from the sides of the fighting rank in that case I think you can choose it to be the ones in the second rank first.

>>95977545
I welcome having no guilt in finally perma selecting my warp dragon.

>>95979491
Were people giving you shit about the WF? It was good but Giant Spawn are/were a way better pick

>>95978431
No.
Hilariously I just realized every model in this game now has the armed to the teef rule black orcs used to have.

>>95979164
You remove from 2nd rank first. Removing casualties 1.4 text in italics.

>>95979171
No, it's back rank first.

>>95979483
Correct

>>95979137
Grugni would be proud to see your work in progress? And what slayer model is that, I don't think I've ever seen it before?

>>95979400
I assume nothing, nor am I seeing it as a unit to build an army around, nor am I coming at this from the perspective of a WAACfag. The point I'm trying to make is that the MoT is boring, bad, and poorly designed, as are all the other marks. A mark of Chaos should not demand further investment to be worthwhile. It should not be as conditional as the MoT or the MoK are in TOW. It should not be as worthless and niche as the MoN. It should be like the MoS and it should be something you'd actually want to replace the MoCU with. I deliberately went along with your example of a "medium investment" bunker to show you that the MoT is not as good as you think it is even in the optimal use case you described (and therefore any other use case, by consequence) while also acknowledging what is good about it.
>forgetting assailment spells
Okay, fair. Sure, if you want your sorcerer to fight, he'd need these spells. My point was that the minute he enters combat, he can no longer cast most spells, nor can he dispel.
>WAAC standpoint
>its purely there to do WAACfag tier shit where the unit has one job
This isn't a question of being a WAACfag or not. Why are you even arguing about something being good or bad if you're going to then accuse someone of being a WAACfag? What's the point of this entire discussion, then?
>[MoT] isnt totally worthless like you claim it is
I never once said this. Quite the opposite, actually, I literally explained what was good about the MoT.. Stop telling me what you think I believe and actually engage with my points. If you like the MoT then use it, I don't care. But you haven't presented any case for it being as good as you say it is. What stops you from just having a sorcerer be in a unit with the MoCU, casting all the same spells he would if he had the MoT? Why pay more for a mark that make a unit worse and less versatile when you claim versatility is the most important factor here? You're not making sense, anon!

>go to LGS to buy some primer
>they have a special display shelf for TOW that GW seems to have sent
I know random LGS stories don’t equate to hard data, but it really feels like TOW has just been getting more investment and support lately.

>>95979215
Reikland. I am a Total War Zoomie so I just picked their colours

>>95974610 (OP)
Newfag to ToW. What type of movement tray should I get for my chaos warriors? 6 wide or 8 wide

>>95978743
Those colours are bonkers but they do actually look really good lol

>>95979740
Do you have a photo?
From the sound of it, GW used Cathay to kinda force a bunch of LGS that didn't normally buy TOW kits to buy a bunch of them at once.

>>95979740
I think GW was unsure how well TOW would be welcomed so they've only been drip-feeding product into stores. TOW is only getting more popular by look of it, my area has been steadily getting into it more which is nice.

>>95977948
The reavers are nice.

>>95979400
To continue my previous post, because it was too long:
>Youre not even entertaining the idea that your just using a mid level wizard to boost a unit youd be takign in your line anyway
First of all, you don't get to make this argument. Units don't exist in a vacuum, you're never taking them "in your line anyway". You are actively choosing to take a unit of warriors and a sorcerer, give them both the MoT, and then you're putting the sorcerer in with the warriors. That doesn't just happen! That's a choice you make. Furthermore, giving them the MoT actively makes your chaos warriors worse on paper. You're paying more for a unit that no longer gets to re-roll fear, panic, and terror and instead gets flaming attacks (which we already agree is niche at best), MR1 and an extremely conditional +1 to casting that requires you to put a sorcerer in there and also pay 10 more points to give that sorcerer the MoT. Whether you'll actually get enough value out of this trade to make up for it is impossible to argue about because I don't know what goes on during your games. In my experience, it's never been worth it.
>youre not taking daemonology every time
Yes, you are. If you want your bunker to do anything, you are taking daemonology. There's no discussion to be had here, neither battle magic nor dark magic do anything worthwhile for your unit when compared to daemonology. This is not a WAACfag thing, it is a terrible game balance thing. Do you want your unit to actually be able to cast magic missiles? You need to cast Steed of Shadows first to get within range of anything. Do you want your unit to be able to kill things in close combat? Daemonic Vessel.
>Claiming as such is sayign its the same as MoN which it blows out of the water
All the marks suck, they just suck differently. They should be more fun and saying that the MoT is good when it isn't won't lead to the marks becoming more fun.

>bring chorfs
>treeman ancient get into melee with blunderbusses
>durthu's wrath hits all models in melee range
>kills 13 blunderbusses in one round of combat
Thank you GW so glad to get save or sucked out of existence again.

can screaming skull catapults fire indirect?

>>95979866
Unfortunately I don’t have a picture but I remember it was a freestanding cardboard shelf with TOW printing and new signs to hang on the regular shelves similar to what they have in GW stores for AoS and 40K.

>>95979930
Ha
Durthu's wrath got even better

>>95979840
Get 8 and then you can experiment run them somewhere between 6-8 wide until you're happy.

>>95979930
If only the faction of guns, fire magic, and fire weapons had some way to proc flammable onto the trees....

Flaming Attacks should cancel all regeneration and re-roll wounds against Flammable targets.

>>95979869
It’s certainly has got me putting more stock in rumors of new releases. My local GW store has a growing wall of stuff for TOW, a total 180 from this point last year.

>>95980034
I agree!

>>95980034
no lol

>>95980034
Please no
My Hellpits just got good, potentially

>>95980034
flaming attacks should have no effect on regen, they should just reroll to wound against flammable

>>95979713
I agbree with your point on the marks on how they should be like tjhe MoS. But to say MoT is useless is wrong which is what the point of my answer to thr first guy was about. You can make it work unlike the MoN or MoK. I dont think the MoT is good, I just dont think its absolutely worthless and has value if you play to try and use it.
>WAACfag stuff
Because the game isnt just between WAAC or pure do whatever. A comfortable middleground exists and is how most people play. In that space the MoT is useable. This is relevant to the Anon asking the initial question as he has been made aware that marks are shit, but out of the 4 MoS is good if overpointed, MoT is semi useable, MoK is mostly shit outside of knights, and MoN is dogshit.

Your example was to basically pile on a massive amount into one unit which admittignly makes very good use of it. Thats fine in huge games, realistically its not as good at smaller games as the points sink in the example you provided is far too much, and even on a smaller build. My point is that the smaller build still has it be viable if you do low end medium investment into it. The buff to casting and the magic resist have value for an annoyance unit and depending on some matchups (which depends on the anon's local meta) the flaming attack has value. I never claimed the versatility was improved at all by the mark. I did say that if youre taking a warrior unit anyway and have a sorcerer you COULD (as in it works and is decent enough to not be totally dogshit) put the MoT on them and the sorcerer and the unit can perform.
>>95979873
>This doesnt just happen
You will most likely be taking 1 sorcerer and most likely be taking a unit of warriors. If there is no plan for them you can, again, make use of the MoT to make a decent (as in its alright) bunker/bodyguard for the sorcerer. You say its not worth it, for me it has but thats matchup dependant and I acknowledge and present it as such.

1/2

>>95976914
Hellebron.

>>95980006
It doesn't really help. You just die before your initiative step. In that game I also had kdaii blow up after charging dryads.

Ah good morning /wfg/. It's another great day when kislav is still out of the game.
Kislav is fucking disgusting, the worst and most disgusting race/army in fantasy history, and it's not even close. Kislavites are a retarded, disgusting, degenerate 'people' (more like apes, honestly) and every time they are killed, mutated, conquered or enslaved is a great day. Seriously the best part about the Great Wars against Chaos is that every time, Chaos does the Olde Worlde a favor by stomping into, and stomping to bits, the shitty pig hovels that constitute 'cities' to the retarded gross kislav ALES that smashed them together, probably 90% out of grass waffle and mortared with their own shit.

2/2
>>95979873
Yes the warriors take a hit with the MoT if theres nothign else there. That IS crap. But the tradeoff is they bump a sorcerer. The tradeoff is overpriced but not to the point youd NEVER want it like with the MoN. Its not godtier, or total dogshit in the scenario with a sorcerer. It becomes ok but still a hard unit to use and get value from, but its still playable.
>Choosing a lore
Immediately after dismissing the other two lores you haerper on about magic missile spam. Why do you assume the sorcerer HAS to be a magic missile spam unit? The others have decent enough spells you can get variety from for other uses of the unit. Sure daemonology is the best out of the three but you can still use the others fairly well. You dont need daemonic vessel either a lot of the time to kill stuff.
>Saying the marks are good
The marks will be shit regardless of this discussion. Your post also shows youre not gettign my point. Youre claiming Im sayign its good. MoT is not good. Its just less shit than the MoN or MoK to a degree that you can use it despite it still being shit and not get totally fucked over by it like those two. Its nowhere near as good as the MoS and further still the MoU.

If the guy who asked the question wanted to run each of the marks itd be like this:
>MoN
Dogshit, dont buy it on anything
>HUUUUUUUUUUUGE gap
>MoK
Dont buy it on anything bar maybe knights and its a risk. Take at your own peril
>Medium gap
>MoT
You need to play into it loads, its inefficient and mostly not worth it. But it can occassionally work. Take if you are willing to play with a bad/slightly bad unit or want to fuck around
>Massive gap
MoS
Very good and worth it in most cases even if its a bit too expensive on some things.
>large gap
>MoU
Its good and you have it by default Keep it unless you want the risks of the lower 3 or have MoS in mind.

MoU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MoS>>>>>>>>>> MoT >>>>MoK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MoN

>>95980156
Trvth nvke. Gw should just consider it as an upgrade sprue for the empire.

>>95980034
This anon speaks truths.

>>95980034
Truth nuke

>>95980156
>>95980176
Lienuke and responding to yourself is insanely cringe. Almost as cringe as hating on the GOATs Kislev.

>>95979137

I have decided I will NOT buy ogres as I do not want to give AoS even a single sale.

>>95980245
Dwarf women are peak

>>95980260
Based.

>>95980260
>REALLY want to get some Ogres and Skaven for TOW
>don't want to give AoS any sales
Scrounging on Ebay it is then

>>95980260
>>95980319
Bit childish

>don’t want to give Aos or tow sales
>buy prints instead
It’s a peaceful life.

>>95980260
>>95980319
Correct outlook. If GW didn't want this to happen they should structure their business differently.

>>95980319
Just get the WGA ogres

>>95976083
It really does. Easily the worst fucking plastic dwarfs GW ever did in fantasy.

And they replaced a very serviceable plastic kit that while a downgrade from the metal models (but then which plastic model wasn't?) was very versatile and looked much better than the shit we're still stuck with today.

Hell, the BFSP dwarfs are better than these guys.

>>95980341
>>95980319
>>95980260
It's a lot gayer to be so buck broken by GW you think like this than it is to buy Age of Sigmar models if you like them.

>>95980348
Aren’t these human sized

>>95980368
I have some, they're about primaris marine sized.

>>95980330
Not really. I would rather ensure that my dollars are marked as buying the system I am actually buying. Instead of marked as buying the system that competes with it.

>>95980359
Nah. An AoS sale signals support of AoS. The only way I support AoS is that I support end timesing it.

>>95980372
Pics?

>>95980353
I never got the autistic screech against the 6e warriors. The Black Fire Pass dwarfs are inorganic looking monopose garbage and the previous warrior kit were all twerking apemen with tiny, shit beards. The 6th ones are a good scale, have organic poses that still conform to a regiment in formation, and have so many choices including the face plates that you can easily build 20 of them and have them look unique.

>>95980388
NTA but here is a video where a guy compares a bunch of ogres models to each other
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3vomRcrohM&t=1586s

>>95976680
very handsome

>>95980387
It's very very gay to have this much of a rape victim mentality towards a toy soldier game.

>>95980428
Fuck off consumerist kike. Don’t you have some foreskins to be slurping right now.

>>95980448
>t. anon that buys products from the company that owns him this hard

>>95980319
recasts are a thing

>>95980034
>Flaming Attacks should cancel all regeneration
correctamundo

and not just cancel regeneration for the flaming attack itself, but also for any attack that happens during a turn in which that model with regeneration was wounded by a flaming attack

>run a level 3 / 4 wizard
>might get off spells but it's a big investment that gets shut down hard by certain armies
>level 1 / 2 wizard
>doesn't reliably cast / deny spells, but cheap at least
>no wizard
>lot of points freed up but hands over the magic phase over to the opponent completely.
What have you guys brought post faq? Previously I just always brought 1-2 level 4's but now every option feels wrong.

>>95980531
Wizards are largely for moving/buffing units now
Magic Resistance has sky rocketed in value which makes hexes and missiles suffer while also being harder to get off

Should I paint my Plague Monk BSB the same as the monks or make him special?

>>95980588
Have him wear the same shade robes but have different colour fur. Maybe paint reddish rashes on his skin too to make him look extra sickly.

>>95980588
He’s a fucking rat paint him in trash juice

>>95980398
How big or small are the WGA ogres compared to the new Cathay Ogre Loader? Also, where's their gut plates?

A friend asked me why Skaven aren't in 40k and it got me thinking, when did Skaven enter the setting? Was it before or after GW was done hammering out Rogue Trader?

>>95980722
The four big skaven clans were hammered out before the 4 big chaos gods

>>95980722
Skaven had a statline in Rogue Trader I believe

>>95980777
That's cool

>>95980844
Skaven are so old you can find the rules for an eshin assasin on the same 2 page spread as the rules for pygmies

>>95980880
Not Fantasy, but I think it amusing that the Badab War technically predates Chaos.

>>95977628
I already have it retard
It goes no way towards marking out a WoC army as khornate, just adding skulls to stuff doesn't make it khornate, since all manner of fantasy models have skulls on em.

>>95981052
Red and skulls is khorne. It's not that deep.

>let’s build some chaos
>no wait, let’s build some dwarfs
>no no no, beastmen!
I’m not going to finish anything

>>95981066
i am diagnosing you with flanderisation syndrome

Are Tree Kin any good? I was thinking of getting some.

>>95981081
nta
If you put a bunch of skulls on something and paint it red then tell me it's Nurgle. I'm going to look at you like you've just said something deeply stupid,

>>95981077
Yes yes what if you built some wood elfs?

>>95981077
Pick your favourite and put the rest hidden away somewhere til you get the first done.

Surrounding yourself with distractions will make you distracted

>>95981093
Some of us have a measure of creativity beyond the extremely low effort of gluing skulls on and a paint scheme

>>95981090
They're okay
Tree Whacking characters can be pretty funny.

>>95981081
Call me James of the Workshop. Gold trim is optional.

>>95981102
Yea, you need khorne bunny ears and sculpted khorne runes, understood, you're the creative one.

>>95981093
Things that look khornate beyond just "red + skulls"

- Khornate helmets or mutated snarling heads
- Stylised khorne symbols, including banners and standards
- Extra aggressive or demonic looking weapons, especially in the form of axes and swords
- anything related to Khorne's thematic animals: bulls, hounds and similar things

>>95981102
Curious, could we see how you do it with your models? Might be nice for some inspo :)

>>95981131
The khorne symbol is a stylized skull.

>>95981077
>chaos
>dwarves
>beastmen
Chaos dwarves with a lot of bull centaurs.

>>95981077
>let's build o&g
>no wait let's do chorfs
>no wait let's do ogres
>no wait let's expand out my empire force
>wait no let's build a 30k army
I feel you anon.

>>95980396
To me they always looked like miniature porcelain dolls. Something about their facial features is very off putting.

But beyond esthetic preferences (which are entirely subjective), it's just a poorly designed kit.

Beside the obvious gap issues, there's also the fact that it's not really compatible with its sister kit of thunderers/quarrelers, the poses are rather limited (or non existant, in case of great weapons) and when armed with shields and axes you cover most of their faces. They rank up ok if you font go too crazy with the weapon arms.
They're... serviceable and I have many of them from picking up lots of used dwarfs over the years.

The dwarfs from battle for skull pass might not be to everyone's taste in terms of sculpts, but as far as game pieces go they're, they're designed much better. They rank up, they're easy to paint, you can tell what every unit is supposed to be and for new players they were ideal.

Also they were fucking EVERYWHERE during 7th edition and the early days of 8th edition. They had literally flooded the secondary market and you could often pick them up for less than 25¢ per model. Easily among my favourite plastic dwarfs from GW.

I am having so much fun on my undead, truly under rated as a kitbasher army.

>>95981158
Yeah and an ordinary skull has as much in common with vampire counts as it does khorne

Does anyone have a link to the old WHTV video where Duncan makes chaos knights of tzeentch

>>95981231
Skulls, are, in fact very useful when modeling vampire count models.

>>95981125
Better than "hurr dur I painted it red" clap for me

>>95980034
Flaming attacks should count as an additional point of combat res if at least one successfully wounds.

>>95981305
Flaming attacks shouldn't allow armour saves.

>>95981433
The old DnD Heat Metal interaction?

>>95977545
Saving individual vs. each point of multiple damage is massively more resilient than just getting one save, no?

>>95978514
Your opponents are bad, unironically.

>>95981451
Highly situational. If you have 5+ regen and took a multi wound hit on your big lord on 2 wounds, you're going to prefer single roll to save

Is there an nehekaran script in their army books like some of the other armies got

Maybe GW's skull fetish was harmful.

>>95981569
the chinese said they can't do that anymore so don't worry

>>95981527
It depends on the amount of wounds and the amount of wounds you have remaining.

Say you're hitting by 2 damage with 2 wounds remaining. The single roll gives you a 33.33...% of survival on a 5+ regen, but two rolls gives you a 66.66...% chance of surviving since you only need to make one of them.

>>95981527
Actually it depends on how many wounds you have remaining versus how many are being dealt. If you're taking 2 damage with 2 wounds remaining, you have a 33.33...% chance of survival with only one roll but a 55.55...% chance of surviving on one wound if it's split into 2 rolls.

>>95981527
it depends on how many wounds you have remaining. If you take 2 damage with 2 wounds remaining, you have a 33.33...% chance of survival with only one roll but a 44.44...% chance of surviving

>math hammer
I bet you niggas suck dick, freaky style too.

>>95981196
sell 30k, expand orcs

5 more night gobbos to actually finish a regiment (then 20 more for my desired unit size) I dont think ill ever have time to paint my entire army and play a game but its still fun

>>95981784
I have 20 tactical marines and a deredeo so far. They aren't taking up to much space or value so far.

I wish you could have ironsworn as detachments. It would be a lot more useful to have a detachment of 6-7 ironsworn as a supporting charge threat for a bigger unit of blunderbusses than it does to spend a ton of points on a ironsworn block and then spend a few more on a small detachment of blunderbusses. Same with greatswords.

>>95981822
Hot DAMN anon great work

>>95981887
Why not play them that way then

>>95981904
I play the rules the way they are.

>>95981826
turn them into orcs

>>95981822
Gorgeous.

>>95979174
SOVL

>>95980260
>>95980319
Based af.
>>95980330
>>95980359
Kys AoS lurker-troons

>>95981983
Nu warhammer art is so shit.

>>95982014
K

>>95981983
>>95982014
I like that one. If you look close he stole that shield from a stunty.
it tells a story. A story of a krumpted stunty

>>95982072

dead thread. Anyways im starting to like the idea of that non shitty wildhunt AOI for woodelves just because I can ambush with tree lords. Having to take eternal guard still seems like a shitty trade off tho. I dont know where and when im ever going to want to get someone to fight them directly

>>95981197
The only point I'll concede here is the gap issue, a problem easily overcome by basic hobby experience. Gap filling is something everyone has to learn, and its necessity is hardly unique to the warriors.
>they aren't compatible with the thunderers/quarelers
>they're hard to paint
>they're hard to rank up
None of these are true.
>poses are limited
But the monopose ones aren't? You need some limitation in order to rank up, but a good kit won't produce a regiment of clones frozen in identical postures, it will make a unit that looks alive and slightly disorderly.

>>95980348
Mantic Ogres are cooler.

>playing a casual LGS tournament with 8~ people
>Tell my opponent that while my clanrats have shields on the model, literally none of them have shields. I tell him this twice.
>He says its fine its no big deal and we play
>Pretty sure he forgets to charge, claims that he didn't charge actually is because he thought my clanrats had shields.
>Just reaffirm that none have shields casually so he can charge whatever
>Complains that it's providing an advantage and calls a judge to see if anything can be done
>Judge clearly doesn't care and that people are using proxies everywhere, even points to someone using a little plastic rubbery ducky as their Daemon Prince. As long as your opponent clearly states what a unit has or does not have, and it's not confusing to tell them apart, its no big deal.
>Opponent seems pissy but carries on
>After game he basically lectures me about how this stuff is important because it completely changes how people approach games based on the models
Am I in the wrong here to feel pissed? It didn't seem that much of a big deal to me, especially since its just a casual tournament.

>>95982812
nah just sounds like the guy wanted to bitch and moan about something if no one else army was WYSIWYG then I'm not sure why you were the target of his ire

>>95982812
You were actually in the wrong. WYSIWYG should be followed to the t. With proxies you have to follow by word of mouth, but seeing official models with them can be really confusing, doubly so if you’re running multiple of the same units. Also, the game already has enough rules to keep track of, having to keep track of another is just unfair, man.

>>95981527
Why? If you're on 2 wounds and took a multiwound (2), you have a 33% chance of surviving with 1 5+ regen roll but a better than 50% chance of surviving with 2 5+ regens.

>>95981713
Knowing that two 5+ rolls is better than even one 4+ roll is a pretty important consideration in a game where you roll 100+ d6s every game.

>>95982852
Yeah in the age of 3D printing people go nuts for proxies but it can be really difficult to tell from across the table what is what if the proxies are overdetailed or very different from the original models. It's less mental overhead if WYSIWIG is clear.

>>95982812
just put the shield on your fucking clanrat bro

>>95982812
Your opponent was being a silly goose about it but you should feel a little shame too.

by any chance do the new changes make the goblin spiders any better or is it still kinda meh

>>95982916
They don't benefit from the double fighting tanks as they are not regular or heavy infantry, and poison as a whole was nerfed (unfairly - they should have just nerfed the banners that were problematic) so they look worse there too.

So as a unit they're flat worse. If you're playing objectives then I could see them being useful to pick up a baggage train or claim an early objectives, but I'm not sure they're any more useful than wolves who are skirmishers and can do the same thing with reserve move.

>>95979584

Slayers had that rule as well. It's probably why nobody uses them in tournaments that enforce WYSIWYG rules on models.

>>95980267

I know a guy who got the old Helga miniature, uses it as a unit leader for his warriors and always gives her a rune of Cleaving.

>>95980267
Not when they're warriors, no.

>>95982812
Pay for the shields if you modeled them with shields. But yeah the other guy is a sperg

>>95978431
They aren't really offensively good compared to even other core options. They aren't a good bunker for wizards compared to more mobile options like maurader horseman. Marauders are overall a better brick thanks to shieldwall and being cheap. They got better but they still aren't worthwhile for whatever you're trying to do.

>>95983020
Pussy.

What are you working on? I am getting started with my Marienburg army with these cannons

>>95983107
Clanrats

>>95983083
Yeah, that's ultimately the distinguish element.

>>95983064
Marauders kind of melt even with the changes IMO. I think a unit of chaos warriors probably is a decent holding unit in the new meta. For as cheap as possible they have good morale and are T4 3+ with a reasonable strike-back at WS5 S4 AP-1. If you want to invest you can make them genuinely a bit threatening at S5 or S6, they take buffs very well if you throw a sorcerer in there including a defensive buff to e.g. T5 with a 5++ (and I think buffing is now better than debuffing because Empire and WoC are going to be running so many units with Magic Resistance -2).

Bear in mind what holds an objective often has to be core. It's a shame we can't get Chosen in core but IMO marauders are too fragile outside of the home objective, forsaken cannot be relied upon due to Impetuous and cavalry needs to be leveraging its mobility and can't hold against infantry, so warriors are your best opion.

>>95983112
Holy shit nigger what are these sculpts.
I've got about 1k points skaven using not the most recent AoS sculpts but the one before and they're miles better than whatever that shit is.

That said I love what your doing paint job wise

>>95976674

They did cap the armour save to 3+, and removed the ASL aura and -1 to shoot gifts from Dragon Lords at least. Plus they nerfed challenges for riders in that if the lord kills the champion, then the dragon can't make his attacks, and the stomp attacks are also wasted, plus impact hits occur BEFORE challenges are issued now.

So there's a couple of little things going on there.

>>95983228
Yeah, dragons will lose any straight combat with an infantry block with champion now. Challenge, the lord does 2-3 wounds, dragon doesn't get to attack, you win on static combat res.

>>95983228
I wonder if there's a case to be made for bringing a mount to match your initiative now rather than just biggest is best. Empire general on griffon, exalted champion on manticore, duke / baron on hippogryph, etc.

>>95983311
You're still not getting the stomps either way, and now you're risking not getting max overkill in the first place. And even if you do get max overkill you're likely still losing combat by 2 because of the changes to close order and the addition of outnumber.

>>95983020
It's fitting when she's surrounded by royal guards.

>>95983338
>close order
>banner
>2 ranks
>outnumber
You should tie unless they have a musician at 4 overkill, win at 5 against non horde units, yeah?

Has anyone tried ordering 3d proonts from etsy? What if some of the minis are damaged under transport? Am I just shit out of luck?

Also how does copyright work? How can a seller profit from Highland Miniatures work?

>>95983427
Only the chaos lord on dragon gets close order himself now with the 10 unit strength restriction. So you lose at 4, lose at 5 if they have a musician, lose regardless if they have any kind of CR boosting.

>>95983200
6th edition plastic clanrats aka monkeyrats

>>95983200
>Holy shit nigger what are these sculpts.
And you've only seen the finished thing, not the mess that is gluing the tails so that they can actually rank up on 20mm bases

What are Australians like with recasts?
Will people get mad if I bring models that are obviously resin and not metal?

>>95983550
nobody cares but GW store owners, store owners you never buy any shit from, and sweatlords looking for a reason to sperg at someone when they lose.

>>95983557
Would getting a full unit of recast original resin longbeards, hammerers and ironbreakers be pushing it too far?

>>95983557
besides, you can always pretend they were from a made to order run GW did in resin or from that time all metal miniatures where in finecast, noone keeps track of whether gw did those in metal or resin.

>>95983560
Are you gonna paint them? Then no one cares

>>95983565
Yeah I just want to collect and paint right now but the idea of gaming one day with them seems fun
>>95983562
>made to order run GW did in resin
I didn't realise they did this, thanks

>>95983560
>longbeards, hammerers and ironbreakers
for 3 years, between 2011 and 2014, they were sold in finecast

>>95983585
Awesome, that's my excuse now
Thanks

>>95983595
If you want an extra layer of deniability you can also tell they come from the second hand market and that's what the seller told you, for scamming you.

But generally, just paint your stuff and don't bring it up, nobody cares if you don't raise fuss about it.

>>95981983
If you don't use an anarachic mix of recasts, 3d prints, old models, aos models, 3d party models, and hand sculpts, you are a weak.

>>95983550
If you live in melbourne there is a surprising segment of the community that live with gw's balls in their mouth, but they're less common in old world than 40k

>>95983667
Thats just Melbourne blokes in general they love balls of any variety in their mouth

>>95983661
Kek that's my army. Oathmark, WGA, Dark Art Studios, Oldhammer recasts + 2nd hand, with a small bit of Sigshit for necessities sprinkled in. Life is good.

>>95983273

Well... that works the first time, second time is where you need finesse.

>>95983751

Not if you're undead lol

Why do people say that the new Regen effects crumbling.
According to the rules the second the heirophant does the undead lose the reg anyway

>>95983989
Crumbling from losing combat, not your lead wizard dying

>>95984000
Ohhh ok

>>95983989
you don't crumble only when the hierophant dies

>>95981713
>knowing basic probability and using it in your dice game is cringe

Anon you can just admit you're dumb and bad at games, it's fine.

>>95984074
not that anon, but leaving some things up to chances to go with the flow, instead of sweating about the statistically most performing choice, is a superior way to play the game, tbqhwyfampai
the point of the dice is to introduce unreliability into the game, if you go out of your way to minimise unreliability you're essentially going against the spirit of the game

>>95983427
With a musician the dragon lord would need to do 6 wounds to win

>>95984102
Knowing the probability of the dice isn't minimizing unreliable, it's just allowing you to act knowing what the unreliablities are. The point of dice isn't to remove strategy or thought it's so that a unit that's better in every way can still hypothetically lose here and there.

>>95983450
Do you lose unit strength as you lose wounds?

>>95984126
>it's just allowing you to act knowing what the unreliablities are.
The only reason to know that is to discard the more unreliable choice and take the more reliable choice.
You are attempting to remove unreliability.

>>95982863
>>95984074
These justifications are ass and I’m just gonna assume this is a coping mechanism from losing your foreskin.

>>95984133
No it isn't, something having better odds isn't the "more reliable choice" dumbass.

If you call them pestigors you're a pussy

>>95984212
What else would you call them?
Nurggors?

>>95984287
Indians.

>>95984169
It literally is.

>>95984212
I'm just italian.

>>95984287
Kill Nurggors behead Nurggors
Lance a Nurggor through the heart
Impact hit a Nurggor with a chariot

>>95980359
Vote with your wallet or lose the products you like

>>95983550
It is always mnorally correct to pirate from GW

>>95984357
I like good models

>>95984492
Exactly, so don't give any money to AoS

>>95984509
Most of the aos models for fantasy units are good and some even have rules for old world like the squig hopper knights :)

>>95984102
It’s a competitive game retard.

>>95984644
no, it isn't, the game breaks apart at the minimal application of competitiveness at the list building stage, unless external limits are imposed.

the game is a collaborative roleplaying game where the players take control of opposing armies, the goal is to win, the point is not.

1.5k game tomorrow, wish me 0 stupidity fails anons.First game with the new changes so decided to try out infantry and wizards once again with my lizards.

LORDS:
147 - Saurus Scar-Veteran, Halberd, Cold One, Horned One, Paymaster's Coin,shield
137 - Saurus Scar-Veteran, Shield, General, Glyph Necklace
380 - Skink Priest, Ancient Stegadon, Engine of the Gods, Wizard Level 2, Battle Magic, Earthing Rod, Talisman Of Protection

CORE:
217 - 13 Saurus Warriors, Spawn Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician
50 - 10 Skink Skirmishers, Javelins and Shields
50 - 10 Skink Skirmishers, Javelins and Shields
70 - 10 Skink Skirmishers, Blowpipe, Scouts

SPECIAL:
224 - 6 Cold One Riders, Cavalry Spear, Pack Leader, Musician,banner
224 - 6 Cold One Riders, Cavalry Spear, Pack Leader, Musician

>>95984740
don't mind the points, old copypaste with hastily amended unit choices.
man 2x the stupidity 2x the horrible failure at key moments. Cant wait.

>>95982812
I have a buddy who is always changing shit so we made him bring paper and he has to write a slip of paper that follows his units stating "no shields, or 2xnhand weapon, or the number of Blorcs armed with which" next to most his units because we got tired remember which units were spears or arrer or 2hw. because while your opponent sperged the truth is wslysiwyg is important to decrease the cognitive load on this very silly game. Having to remember which identical unit does what differently is a pain and people who cba to differentiate are miserable to play into.
Again it's an event and you told him so whatever but for casual games if you pull this often you're a dick.

>>95984644
>It's a competitve game- t.retard
Fify

>>95984766
Nah for casual games its even more acceptable, what are you on about. Just because your friend is a faggot cheater doesn't make proxying bad.

>>95984945
Obviously triggered faggot
In a casual game proxy a unit or 2 fine, especially if testing if you want to buy or print a unit in the future. If you constantly cycle the same few units constantly because you're too lazy, cheap or ADHD to paint and stick to a theme even with friends you deserve to be derided and punished. It's not others responsibility to cope with your laziness or refusal to play with what you got every time.

>>95984985
Not everyone wants to purchase multiple copies of the same unit just to give them a slightly different weapon loadout. It's completely unreasonable to expect from anyone but a hardcore enthusiast tournament player.

>>95985172
Judt equip half with shields and half without or whatever. When you play a game and you're not using a certain loadout just stick those guys in the back rank.

>>95984985
Yes I am triggered by you being asshurt from playing with a shitter that you decide something literally everyone does is bad.
I played at the big Adepticon tournament and nobody was following your requirements. This is literally a your group problem.

>>95985172
>no I'm allowed to play with Pepsi cans, armless greytide, and cut outs for years if you hate this you're a tourneyfag!
This is how retarded you sound. It's obvious your trolling or such a lazy faggot your lack of effort has been brought up before and this is why your trying to make a caricature out of my arguement. Never did I say proxying is bad (its not in moderation), I said if you can't settle on a load out and force your opponents to remember more stuff every single game your an obnoxious faggot. Which so far you've displayed quite well so I'm clearly on the money here.

>>95985244
>plays events
>hates playing an army as is that's not min maxed
>angry at others for not allowing him to cut corners to do so as if it's his right
>0 care for opponents experience
Every fucking time. WAACfags gonna WAACfag.

>>95985282
>angry at others for not allowing him to cut corners to do so as if it's his right
It is my right, how stuck up are you lmao
>0 care for opponents experience
Ironic, considering you expect your opponents to shell out $$$ so you don't have to remember what unit has what weapon.
Anon do you have short term memory loss? Are you legit a 70 boomer who can't remember what's what?

>>95985257
Notice how this guy >>95985207 managed to give a reasonable answer without chimping out and creating a greentext strawman to argue against. Certain armies, like WoC, can take something like 4-5 different weapon loadouts on some of their units and it'd get ridiculous to have hundreds of redundant figures just so that you can have the perfect WYSIWYG army. By the way I'm not even the guy you were originally arguing with. I just chimed in because you're a miserable cunt with a terrible attitude.

>>95985308
You're literally chimping over someone says proxying shouldn't be overdone.

>>95985306
>cutting corners is my right
And it's your opponents right to call you a faggot for shortening their experienceby forcing them to remember your army. Again it's clear your triggered by this and you've been taken to task for excessive overuse or laziness.

>Shugengan Lord now sold out in the UK and Europe
Cathay just keeps winning

>>95985306
>everytime a WAACfag enters a conversation they literally freak out if someone doesn't let them play a social game 100% their way.
Tournaments are just containment for autistic aren't they? At least for warhamner.

>>95985355
moderately surprising since you can't actually buy the core units on their own yet. I've got to assume interest is.... at least decently high.

>>95985352
I guess we'll just be stuck in a "faggot cold war" then anon, because we're BOTH shortening the experience. Also shortening? What the fuck ESL bullshit is this.
>>95985370
Anon... you do realize hard enforcing WYSIWYG is also forcing someone to play their game 100% your way...
The word "autistic" is thrown around a lot but you might unironically be if you can't see that.

>>95985381
If the Battalion Box, the AJ, and the Lord are selling out, definitely a big hit. The BB and AJ are the best indicators, since they are required to actually play a game (as core tax and the actual rules).

>>95985384
>doesn't know what shortening is
You can always tell the euro esl from being unable to rigidly apply words.
And it's not an autistic cold war. Several times I said proxying is fine when it's not overdone but to act like it's you're right and to use it game after game is tiring. The only one having a meltie is you for being told you're a faggot, again apparently because you can't be bothered to play without min maxing your opponent over caring if your units represent anything.
Again, there is already a degree of non WYSIWYG in fantasy from lords/Heros and banners magic items not being modeled (albeit personally I try to make distinctions when able) which slows the game down already. Expecting then your modeled spearmen to be oh wait halbs oh wait swordsmen oh wait spears but no shields wait halbs with shields is another step to slowing down the game and making it less immersive. The fact you think this is beneficial and should be maxed just shows what a fuckwit you are. Again a unit or 2 prob fine for a few games but it gets old fast.

Buff stormvermin bf, twink Eshin bf or tsundere grey seer bf?

>>95985469
all inferior to gor gf

>>95985464
>You can always tell the euro esl from being unable to rigidly apply words.
Bro there's use words creatively and using words that nobody will understand. I don't know what non-English language you speak, but just FYI, every native speaker is gonna go "wtf did he just say" if you refer to things as "shortening the experience". Its like when ESL Europeans/Japs talk about "drinking a medicine" instead of taking because the verb in their original language for medicine is drink.

>>95985500
That's just an elf with horns

>>95985451
What would it mean if the reference cards or one of the SEU's sells out?

>>95985522
That Cathayfags are absolutely mental

>>95985522
More selling out is even more of a success, but those are optional so its more of a great bonus. If the stuff players DONT need is killin' it then Cathay is doing gangbusters.

>>95985506
Lol another trigger
No as a life long English speaker we rarely read the entire sentence or even words and get the gist. It's pretty clear from having a tantrum about proxies to try to insult English you're just...not a very socially adjusted person
Out of curiosity you wanna share with chat how many times people have been flustered by you spamming grey armies of constantly shifting loadouts?

>>95984755
It's all part of the great plan anon

>>95985522
That would be a bit more understandable if Cathay sold out due to being brand new and chock full of rules for the cards.

>>95985589
Pretty embrassing if you're not esl and write at this level

>>95985584
I can only hope it does well if for no other reason than so that Kislev gets more than the bare minimum in its first wave.

>>95985589
>Out of curiosity you wanna share with chat how many times people have been flustered by you spamming grey armies of constantly shifting loadouts?
Literally none, that's why Im so confused by your attitude.

>>95985621
Unless you are in an entire cohort of grey plastic faggots, everyone hates and shit talks you if that's all you ever bring

>>95985621
You've been having a shitfit anon, it's time to go outside a while and reread. The other anon said too much proxy is annoying and you've been trying to justify the opposite all morning.

Shut the fuck up.
If you're confused by proxies write down what your opponent is fielding on a piece of paper.

>>95985630
Yeah bro, I just won "best opponent" at my last tournament because everyone hates me.
>>95985650
I don't have to reread anything, I am just calling out that WSYIWYG is not the norm anywhere. Its not at tournaments, its not at casual store games. The ESL anon already admitted he requires it because his shitty friend cheats otherwise and is projecting that on everyone else.

>>95985660
>show up to opponents army
>his is all painted, themed as his favorite Karak and even painted the rims on his trays. His army is easily identified and each model you're accustomed to as he has continued to try and make his army better tactically.
>your army is a weird field of grey half completed stuff of which over half is not even the actual model it is. Today's list is a new maxed army based off some YouTube event list and bears no resemblance to last week's list despite being the sane models.
>my opponent is the faggot for not spending more time to cater to me.
Do people really think like this?

I don't understand, is it not standard practice to bring a printout or something of your army list that your opponent can reference? This doesn't seem like such a big deal.

>>95985714
It's not but the triggered tourneyfag is melting over 1 anon saying it shouldn't be taken to the extreme.

>>95985692
Considering what a total faggot you've been here I really doubt best opponent unless it's the pity award you get for sucking but not dropping?

>>95985714
Against buddies I don't since we trust each other. Against randos or in tournaments absolutely. Which is why this harping on of WYSIWYG is so retarded. Proxying (even a lot) is not an issue.

>>95985724
>diagreeing with me makes you a total faggot!
The man harping on about being "considerate" to others everyone

Is this real?

>>95985743
you reacted to him saying proxying shouldn't be overdone and continue to whine, you really are the faggot here.

>>95985758
Yeah GW really did a bad paint job on these

>>95985762
Just disagreeing with you doesn't make someone a faggot, but its clearly from your answers you're too self-centered to ever realize that, so I guess it's just wasted words.

>>95985758
They must be hiring painters off the streat now

>>95985784
Every response you've had to anyone here has been you insulting people, just give it a rest tourneyfag. And paint and finish your models.

>>95985774
Paint job? The sculpts look like total ass too. Legit should have been stopped before production.

>>95985758
dunno, ask /aosg/

>>95985814
>Finish your models
Would tourney fags take offense if i showed up to a table with my models still in the box?

>>95985814
The insults started with the anti-WYSIWYG poster. Might wanna reread...?

>>95985825
Asking the wrong anon, the last event I did around fantasy was back in 8th, everyone had painted armies and models were what they appeared to be per rules. I got rolled extremely hard but it was...eh. After seeing what competitive Warhammer was I knew it wasn't for me and have only played pick up games. No idea what's standard or allowed anymore.

>>95985821
good paitns jobs can make a shit sculpt look great

>>95985844
Bro talking about his experience literally a decade plus ago... wouldn't surprise me if you play 1 game a year too these days.

>>95985830
he mentioned a personal experience of extreme example and ends with
> if you pull this off often in casual games you are a dick
Thats not an insult unless you... constantly shift your models around anon. and its a pretty mild insult desu then you:
> Just because your friend is a faggot cheater doesn't make proxying bad.
Yeah, anon you escalated way beyond either assuming he was calling you as bad as his friend, or you are that bad. Either way you went off first.

>>95985857
How does not playing events now mean anything? I think most people will try an event once maybe but generally play garage games. I play a few times a month fwiw but yeah, I'm not playing events these days what of it? Is greytide slop the norm now for them?

>>95985875
I called his friend a faggot cheater after he called him a dick already... do you lack reading comprehension? I never insulted anon, just someone he already insulted.
You seem like one of those retards who rants about their gf/bf and then when a friend agrees and says "yeah they sound like a bitch" you puff up in anger at anyone daring to insult them.
A U T I S M H O !

>>95985890
If you're only playing in your garage, you have no reference point for what is normal. Same way aliens landing on a remote desert island of 10 people with no contact to the outside world would not get great advice on what the average person's life is like.
You do you for sure, but if that's all your doing you can't really be giving an opinion on what's common or normal outside of your group.

>>95985899
>points out he didnt call him names
>anon starts to crash out
holy shit you are 100% a total faggot lol. paint your models.

>>95985928
Bro we're already slinging insults, that's not crashing out, that's just continuing the conversation. Nice dodge btw, gonna address the point or use your buzzwords?

>>95985917
What are you even on about? I agree with >>95985928 paint your models or something.

>>95985948
Nah you are raging hard anon. Throwing insults and getting madder as people laugh off how cringe you are isn't winning but hey, don't let me stop you.

>>95985957
I am saying if all your doing is playing garage games with your friends, you have no idea what is common outside of your group.
The original argument was that nobody in tournaments or casual pickup games at stores care about WYSIWYG. And that's true. If you don't play either and just stick to your friend group, your opinion is irrelevant.

>>95985975
Anon... you can't use throwing insults as a sign of losing arguments when you are throwing insults too...

>>95985986
Does garage game not mean casual pickup? Are you this dense? Do you have to make everything others say some extreme example? Are you legit on a spectrum?

>>95986005
No, Garage game means with your buddies. It's pretty rare to play pickup games at people's houses. That's what game stores are for.
Again, its clear your reference point for what is normal is pretty... out there, so your opinion doesn't matter much to this convo, sorry.

>>95986005
At this point just let him rage, it's clear he's been triggered about proxying and is in full meltdown mode. No point in engaging someone at this level of retardation till they or their handlers calm them down. Just enjoy the show.

>>95986030
Sorry anon, I have already reduced you to merely slinging insults instead of responding to points. I have already won

>>95986016
>Projecting this hard.
I wouldn't have said garage but casual pickup up games and garage games seem easily enough interchangeable.

>>95986048
You lost when you the anon pointed out you threw a fit first and then pretended he insulted when you starting raging about his freind being a cheater (even tho guy sounds like an ass no one called him a cheater) and then insulted him. Like legit between the ESL claims, condoning greytide, and trying to misrepresent others it's clear you either misunderstood and are too far gone to admit it or legit might be retarded. Either way, paint your dudes.

>>95986058
Maybe if you're ESL, again (although I think you're not the "shortening" anon).
Again I don't mean it as an insult, but Games Workshop's push for 3 year cycles and squatting means people are much more lenient with that stuff compared to ye olden days. It was more understandable to expect others to have WYSIWYG when models weren't squatted 2 years after they went on sale and rules didn't change for weapons every 6 months, but in the age of 3 year cycles and FAQs everyone knows that its a bit burdensome to expect you to follow that to the letter.

>>95986111
>(even tho guy sounds like an ass no one called him a cheater)
Bro, changing your unit loadouts in the middle of battle to gain an advantage and claiming your forgot/didn't know is 100% cheating. Just calling a spade a spade. If you lack the reading comprehension to get that that's what the friend was doing, idk, I just don't think there's much to be gained from talking to ya at this point.

>>95986136
That anon said it was for the opponents to remember units like Blorcs load outs which changed battle to battle. That's not cheating unless the guy changed mid game
Anon did...did you read it fully? Where did he say his opponent changed only him and his other players got tired of remembering which is which mid game.

>>95986165
Ah I may have misread that part, but then that just makes anon's point look like a pair of 60 year old boomers not managing to remember simple units.
Which is sad, because I play against a 70 year old player sometimes and he doesn't have that issue.

Do you build 2k armies? 3k armies? Do you buy a variety of stuff that you could run different 2k armies but also play at higher points?

>>95986114
I don't think anyone advocated for it be followed to a letter, only it shouldn't be maxed either. I don't mind people mixing up stuff but I do think people should settle and generally try to get stuff as represented on the table. Why do I have to be in an extreme?
>gw cycle means it's more common
That would be a change for events and tournaments I guess then. Fwiw I always remember proxying being part of the game hell my 4th ed battlebox skins were many skirmishers for amny armies growing up. But still I strive to make my armies visually the same as I build them. I think most people try to balance both crunch and fluff still right? Am I in a bubble where people generally try to represent what they got and grow from there and otherwise TOW is only FOMO grey min max for the most part?

>>95986219
>rages due to a misunderstanding
>finally reads what triggered him
>instantly moves goalposts
Anon you 100% acted like a dementia riddled boomer ironically.

>>95986222
not seeing a lot of Cathay minis posted hmm almost like secondaries never leave their niche

>>95986236
what?

>>95986223
>I don't think anyone advocated for it be followed to a letter, only it shouldn't be maxed either.
Yeah but at that point, what's "max" and what's just fine is so opinionated it really doesn't warrant discussing.
>I think most people try to balance both crunch and fluff still right?
Yeah, the ideal and preferred is to have fully painted armies with fluff (and WYSIWYG if possible). It's not a hard binary; people LOVE finished, correct armies, but nobody cares if you bring units with spears and say "hey they got hand weapons and shields today". Cuz nobody is expecting you to tear your models apart or buy and paint new ones due to the latest FAQ.

>>95986236
its not out yet lol

>>95986236
I don't know if here would be the best place since most are somewhat cooled to Cathay.

why are elves player often such disgusting fat slops?

>>95986262
I dunno I think people might be just as miffed at you meta chasing especially if they aren't. Again I know it varies group to group but everyone swapping their army out every 3 months doesn't sound like Fantasy or even fun. For me, people proxying torsos before deciding on load out or saying this unit is another doesn't bother me too much bit if someone's constantly doing so to get a competitve edge it would wear thin on me.

>>95986321
And to be clear, when I say comeptitve edge I don't mean try new stuff out or try to experiment with optimizing their lists. I mean that every game their units shift based on min max. Over and over. If someone says hey today my spears are swords fine. If it's been like 6 months and they spent their time shifting every week between every load out that just happens to be "optimal" it would wear thin. That's all.

>>95986321
>I dunno I think people might be just as miffed at you meta chasing especially if they aren't
Responding to rules changes isn't really meta chasing, its just adapting. Changing your loadouts because someone won a tournament because of them would be for sure.
>every 3 months
Well its more like 18 months for us, but yeah, it sucks ass and nobody likes it, even the AoS or 40k players.
>someone's constantly doing so to get a competitve edge it would wear thin on me.
If we're playing a purely narrative game, I get that for sure, but its ultimately a war game. Unless we have a story to tell with preset units, the ultimate point of the game is to win. You shouldn't cheat or anything like that, but the point of non-narrative games is to win (while having fun).

>>95986365
>Winning is the only goal
I don't think that's fully true either. Even in 1 off games I enjoy seeing what shenanigans I can pull over the end result. I've been getting clobbered as wood elves but I enjoyed routing gobbos with a terror branchwraith in dyrads last game for example. Sure I knew she wasn't optimal but I wanted to see if I could get some mileage out of it. I lost in the end but watching her pull off a gotcha was worth it. I also enjoy collecting units and painting them over just winning so sure eternal guard aren't the greatest but I enjoy having at least 1 unit last a round (eh....sometimes).
I think for most people the fun is the game and experience as a whole not just a win. Given how wonky GW games are I'd think tying my experience to just that would be miserable. Which to circle back is why I think proxying shouldn't be a right/ban but should be applied with the mind of "does this overall detract or improve the game today?"

>>95986419
>Even in 1 off games I enjoy seeing what shenanigans I can pull over the end result.
>could get some mileage out of it
Yeah, but what are the point of those shenanigans? To help yourself win the game, right? The chances were low, but they were still in service of winning.
>"does this overall detract or improve the game today?"
And again, I would tell you that the vast majority of both tournament and casual players would tell you straight "it really doesn't matter".
Even randos dropping into this thread >>95985660 agree.

>>95986459
>what was the point?
To hear the lamentations of their women anon. That wasn't to win.
You...really don't see TOW as anything but a crunch power game and I guess that's fine just limiting. You do you. But if we include rando input then I'll note several anons have told you to paint your models at least. Nothings worse than watching a sweatlord go on about which units are which who cba to paint or base their dudes.

>>95986459
NTA but you seem socially slow

>>95986495
>But if we include rando input then I'll note several anons have told you to paint your models at least.
All of my models are painted, so that's advice wasted. Im advocating against WYSIWYG.
>To hear the lamentations of their women anon.
that speech is about winning anon-sama... you're defeating your own point...
>>95986497
Nice insult, not an argument.

>>95986511
Dominance is more than winning but I think these nuances are lost on you.

>>95986560
>>95986560
>>95986560
Migrate

>>95986511
I'm not arguing with you, I'm expressing my opinion that you seem really retarded. It's important the retarded know about their disability so they don't suffer from overconfidence, the worst thing you can do in most people's eyes is be confidently retarded.

>>95977146
Tbf it kind of wasn't, with stuff like this their directive is just to defer what the most recent core books say, and while there are some times when they give permission to ignore it, 9/10 GW say to go with the most recent lore. I guarantee in this case someone from C7 asked GW if they could change it back or something and they were told not to.