The Daemon Wrecks Pragg -Edition

Resources:
WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwh
WM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgeba
WFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6
Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H
>Warhammer Chronicles:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zip
>Time of Legends:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip
>The End Times:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip
>TOW:
https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXS
https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/
>Alternative Models:
https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL
>FAQ/Errata
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/wgp83jlw/old-world-faq-and-errata-designers-notes/

>Previous Thread:
>>95997412

>Thread Question:
propose an alternative army if infamy for your faction

just took a look at TOW. did they seriously release it without half the factions finished so they could roll out new model lines one at a time? why does anybody put up with this shit.

>be GW
>release new edition of game
>actually it's just a brand new game
>for no reason, we started over from scratch again and will learn no lessons from past mistakes
at least this time they were somewhat honest about it and gave it a new name. but if it's not WHFB then who gives a fuck anyway.

>>96005252
>did they seriously release it without half the factions finished so they could roll out new model lines
no, the problem was that half the factions still had a sizeable amount of kits held hostage by aos, which is a problem due to an extremely weird internal dynamic going on within gw that makes them almost completely allergic to the idea of one product being cross compatible between 2 different systems that get managed by two different teams (tow is a project managed by the people who were once forge world, and currently also managing horus heresy, blood bowl and necromunda)
people are expecting tow to eventually reintroduce the legacy factions as soon as aos stops using the old kits, and aos as a matter of fact has updated in quick succession a large amount of old kits, especially for vampires, skaven and lizardmen

>>96005252
because half of the factions are shit so they were rightfully squatted.

>>96005231 (OP)
>Pragg
It's praag, not pragg.

Chaos OP pic is just in time for me to post the oil paint step of my chaos warriors. Theyre painted underneath, and Ill be removing the oil in around an hour.

Just a quick lil' diorama for some skeleton's I've painted. I still have to decide on their shields.

>>96005316
It has a Mediterranean or at least summer feel to it.

>>96005316
Nice burrow and skelebois, by threat what did you use to make the landscape backdrop?

The first batch of my ratniggas arrived today. Can't wait to put them together this weekend.

>>96005489
>by the way*
Not sure how I messed that up

>>96005316

I always liked the goblin green rims with brown earth and static grass on top look. Reminds me of early 00's GW.

>>96005288
Update:

It failed and I need to strip them and repaint them (doesnt take long). But I at least know it doesnt work wihen the oil paint is the more vivid colour compared to the undercoat.

>>96005288
how does this work? keep the yellow in the recess? or is the yellow a fake colour?

>>96005231 (OP)
Slayer cult

>>96005316
Reminds me of those skeleton caves in Valheim

>>96005539
The effect works like this (Ive only got 40k models to demonstrate but its easier to see) where you paint the mdoel then do a wash with oil paint. Except you leave it really heavy as Ive shown in previous threads.

However here it hasnt worked but I can see why. The oil paint is a brighter and more vivid colour than the undercolour (I.e. red here) and just overpowers it. For the effect to work I think the two colours either need to be close in how vivid or not vivid they are especially towards the darker end of the scale. Or if using bright colours the undercolour has to be brighter and more vivid. Otherwise it just ends up as a shit chalky texture.

>>96005601
I think the only way to avoid this is to do it with white oil paint and then do a wash or contrast etc. type paint of the colour you'd want to oil on top. Which I shouldve done dirst as now I have to go and strip the fuckers and repaint them.

Does anyone have any idea why the black orc sprues give you so many banners and drums etc? I mean maybe I can use these banners for kitbashing later, but I think this is a bit weird...

>>96005613
That's just how sprues were designed back in the day. Nothing weird about it.

Got my Cathay stuff in early. Really do just like the way these little dudes look. I am new to this game.
I got into it via tww and always said if they brought back whf i’d get into it. Cathay announced made it seem they will actually support the game for real. I am that guy. I am that demographic.
I have my first practice game this weekend someone is loaning me an army and we’ll play. I’ve read all the free resources on warcom but you really just need to get dudes on the board to learn.
Surprisingly or unsurprisingly the youtube resources to learn to play are fucking horrendously bad. 40k has a lot tighter instructables. “How to play” will be a 4 hour stream of rambling fat bastards.
I’m hoping the local community here will be better than it is for 40k because i can’t do it anymore. Most of the games i’ve had lately have been against unpainted greytiders. I’ve read that apparently Cathay is offensively overpowered, i really hope not. Don’t want to bring any feelsbad shit to the game

>>96005667
Sounds great, anon. I'm sure you'll have a great time.

>>96005667
cool. I still have to wait for mine.
have fun building and painting.

>>96005279
ok, so TOW is basically doa as a replacement game for warhammer players? it sounds like it's just trying to siphon AOS players in to buying bigger armies.
so back to the old "what old edition or alt ruleset" debate for /wfg/ I guess

>>96005667
I find that best way to learn these games is play one game pretty much blind, fucking up most of the rules or forgetting stuff (which happens still 20 games in). Then you can watch a battlereport or how to play video and see all the stuff you messed up or how they solved problem situations

>>96005231 (OP)
Should I hire a coach to help me beat my friend in this game?

>>96005862
Wargamer wearing jerseys like they are on a sports team are so cringe lol

>>96005816
>ok, so TOW is basically doa as a replacement game for warhammer players?
not really, despite everything the legacy factions have usable rules, one part of the community has even made their own changes to them in an attempt to make them fit better with the level of the other factions, and the edition, despite its own problems, seems successful enough both in the gaming circles and as far as gw's concerned with the sales, since in the previous investor reports they've claimed the launch and reintroduction of the ranges was good enough for them to expand the scope of the systems, and after that we began to see more extensive releases for the system such as the retooling of high elves units previously locked in an old starter, and the entire faction of cathay.

And again, it is very expected and possible for the legacy factions to be brought back in due time, until then tow is kinda considered a beta for a real new edition.

>>96005862

I hate hustle culture so much it's unreal. Hobbies should be hobbies for their own sake and family/rest time is sacred.

My friends it's weird I'm not putting thousands of miles on my car delivering slop and shuffling strangers around to make beer money.

>>96005862
Fucks like this are why Phalaris created the Brazen Bull

>>96005816
might be my autism reading into it, but you seem pretty hostile to the whole idea of TOW anyways so would be best to steer clear of it and try to find older games

>>96005816
Nah not really, outside a few 9th age speds too invested and some ancient 6e grogs who'd be playing 6e if the sun exploded, TOW has been accepted by the community more or less entirely and it's pretty good despite it's flaws (most of which were recently addressed but the dust hasn't quite settled on that)

The only army that really feels completely unplayable is lizardmen, otherwise the legacy factions aren't really any worse off than the "real" factions, unless you were just really hoping for a reprint of 2008 vc skeletons or something

>>96005667
I condemn your taste, but I hope you have fun regardless

>>96005316
Take the funny face pill

https://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com/2012/07/arcane-armorials-80s-shield-designs.html

also can you remind me what that ram skull bit is from? I'm certain I have it somewhere and this has inspired me to put it on a guy, but knowing the kit would help me find it in my sprue pile. I want to say gors maybe?

>>96005535
I love the skull pass goblins but goddamn these have so much personality

>>96005978
He's the schizo faggot making up bullshit and projecting in the 'Is AoS dying?' thread. The cope will be that this general doesnt like disagreement. When in reality its more his logic is just retarded and was even point out to him in the other thread. The fact that Cathay got made indicates its DoA at all.

>>96005252
someone woke up to their time of the month

>>96005816
It replaced and is now fantasy but if you're too retarded no amount of words will cure that.

Did they hint when the second wave for Cathay is out

>>96006191
no the book is speculated to come out in a month or so probably after new HH gets released

>>96005252
They're going to have to eventually progress to 2502 IC when the Great War Against Chaos is over. Starting in 2276 IC allows GW to retcon Cathay into the setting. Who knows? Maybe more factions like Khuresh, Araby, Nippon, or Ind may be made playable.

>>96006191
It's usually 2-3 months after the first wave.

>>96006204
>more humans

I have a query to /wfg/ but also a discussion point. The reason I came up with this is that the meta in my local seems about high optimisation and competitiveness.

My proposition is: The reason so many people in TOW, on average, are very competitive is due to the expensive nature of the hobby.

Simply put: I put lots of money in this hobby, I want to get good use out of it.

Do you think this is a fair assessment?

Inversely, BB seems a good mix of casual and competitive because a full "army" is quite cheap in the mid two digits.

How true do you think this is?

>>96006226
They don't all have to be anti-Chaos Order human nations. They can be Neutral like the Ogres and Dogs of War.

>>96006025
>some ancient 6e grogs who'd be playing 6e if the sun exploded
There are literally more people playing 6e in my country than TOW. Stop peddling lies.

>>96006244
None of this is a real assessment of TOW you're just the autistic anon who thinks every game must be super competitve because reasons. Fix yourself and your investment will pay off, don't and nothing will make you happy

>>96006287
I don't think it should be competitive but I believe most do from my small sample size of opponents in my local and I don't think I am the exception.

But I wager from your post you disagree?

>>96006282
Ok, maybe in Transnistria or whatever I dont care

>>96006282
>6th ed popular at all
Working at the Palmer Research Center while in unclaimed antarctic territory doesn't count as sovereign of your mother country

Question- what command do you give your ranged shooters? Like I would wager given how TOW promotes small blocks of ranged stuff standards are not worth the pts? Maybe just a champion for the better shot, and Musician to march away if needed? I tend to paint commands for them but find myself cutting them often so my heros can have more magic items

>>96006312
full command on all units that can take it unless it's too small for the banner to look cool

>>96006312
For small shooting units, I'd argue that the command squad is largely unnecessary. By the time you'd actually stand to gain anything from paying for them, your unit will almost certainly be dead and so it won't matter. In fact, you'd be giving your opponents more points!

>>96005231 (OP)
Hey guys, someone that I know needs to dispose of some aging products: Two Chaos Daemons combat patrols and Three Ogor Mawtribes Spearheads. I am interested in The Old World much more than age of sigmar at this point, so which of these armies would be the better choice?

Basically two of these

>>96005816
>so TOW is basically doa
Yes

>>96006337
Yeah outside of musicians for vanguard units I expect to need to run away, for my armies commands just don't add anything useful for the pts. Better off spending it on 1 more dude.
Also I tend to play smaller scale around 1k points so here I need every point. But even at 2k points I found myself cutting commands for ranged unit every time to squeeze in a 25pt banner onto my combat units.

>>96006425
>so which of these armies would be the better choice?
That depends what you are looking for. Are you asking about competitive viability?

>>96006425
and the alternative; three of these guys. I really want to try this game and it's hard to argue with free (besides the cost of the square bases)

>>96006114
>The fact that Cathay got made indicates its DoA at all.
Cathy would have been basically finished long before the finanical report featuring tow's launch were submited.

>>96006244
Comparing Bloodbowl to TOW or any skrimish/battle game isnt a good comparison. They arent really equiavlents that can be compared.

>>96006448
Cathay was designed before TOW and was put into production a year before launch so that's 6 months after TOW launch. Don't let reality stop you from continuously being a faggot tho, it's midly entertaining.

>>96006447
I mean 3 of those ogor boxes if you kitbash a bit should give you easy 2k points. The daemons less so and less flexibility.

>>96006446
I guess which ones will be simpler to play with overall? Vibes as well because they are probably going to live their lives in the display case.

>>96006448
Whilst likely true the effort put into the launch in a meta sense is greater than other releases implying TOW is doing well.

The perception of TOW being DOA is based around the game launching with just TK and Bret, both niche factions and the lack of anythign else at the time meant people didnt buy into the game immediately. The game has more attention to it than AoS. You can see this on the warhammer community page where it gets more attention even outside of releases than anything to do with AoS. In both this thread and the other thread theres more anecdotal evidence about ToW selling or being played more than AoS than the reverse. The only decent argument is 'its fomo bro' for stocks being low on ToW material, when the same would apply to AoS which has very few kits out of stock.

>>96006456
I suppose, I drew the comparison because BB, barring the most minute are quite casual overall. But TOW seems to have a higher proportion of competitive players.

My reason for this comparison is BB is cheaper so I assume because of that people are more relaxed as less is invested and the opposite for TOW.

>>96005535
these are so much better than the more recent kit

>>96006025
Newfag here, why are lizardmen unplayable?
Was thinking about starting TOW with that army, the AoS models look cool and seem? to rank up easy enough

>>96006568
Not really. Bloodbowl by its very nature has a lower competitive floor. The works around the teams trying to score etc. The base game will have you mostly playing competitively. The vibe however is still casual for the most part as its a smaller specialist game. What would be termed 'competitive' as in WAACfag tier for bloodbowl is far beyond that with faggots who want to play at 1750tv, ONLY using teams that allow starplayers, and resetting teams every 'league' in their group. You will easily find people who want to play BB like this or think this is the only way to play it despite it being the gayest way possible of playing the game. the price point is irrelevant and if anything boosts the competitive nature of the game as if their team is shit for whatever reason they can easily replace it.

ToW (and 40k, 30k, A*S etc.) by extension of being larger wargames will have more ways the game can be played. Take this thread for example. Youll have the anon who makes lists that are a functional mess even for casual games, but does so because he lieks the models. This is one extreme, the other is the WAACfag who abuses whatever is the in THING of the meta. Most players, or players youd actually want to play are people in between who will make a semi decent army of the units they like whislt their army list isnt total dogshit. This is NOT playing the competitively, its a spectrum not a binary. The price of the game has little to no bearign on this and the player's personality and what they take from the game is what determines it. Its mostly chance on who you find but location etc. also have an impact. 40k currently leans into comp dogshit in the way the game is designed. Most people however dont play the game that way. TOW is similar.

BB if anything has an over-representation of comp in its most active players due to the points mentioned above and the NAF keeping the game alive when GW didnt support it.

>>96006244
>Do you think this is a fair assessment?
No, being a sweaty tourneyfag isn't the only way to get a good use out of an army, it's arguably the one way to NOT get a good use out of the army.

>>96006568
>>96006682
2/2

Time commitment is also more of a factor as well, a good BB game takes between 2-3 hours whilst a decent size TOW game takes 3-4 hours (lower pts games taking less but being more comp based). So if a BB game is going shit you can leave earlier so people will put up a front of enjoyment for longer which makes it seem more nice compared to some faggot moaning about linehammer after he fucked up something in a game of TOW.

Having played both TOW and 40k players are more up for casual games, not to the extremes of pure narrative but the middile groud described before. Whilst most people who play BB regularly want to play it using NAF or event rules and play very optimally (in a meta sense, many are still fucking retarded like those who pick undead teams). Very few want to play in a scenario where you keep a team going until 2000-3000tv (the best area of the game) across several leagues.

>>96006645
They aren't unplayable but pay a premium for stuff other factions get cheaper. It's not that your slann is unfunctionable, skinks unusable (poison nerf is why waacfags are hating lizards now all they did was skink spam) or dinos bad. But ppm your opponents will be more efficent meaning you can't afford to make bad choices in lidt building or the table and have to get mileage out of every unit. It's not 8th ed beastmen bad or 6th ed dark elves but you probbaly can't fight top meta lists- vs casuals you should be fine albeit at a disadvantage. Unironically you need to follow the great (battle)plan to win and you'll win.

>>96006742
>>96006645
Saurus might be more useable now that low initative infantry has been buffed though

>>96006720
That is an extremely fair assessmemt and I appreciate you outting the time in to respond in good faith.

Ironically, as I was reading your post, I realised I too play in acompetitive sense in BB i.e Matched Play guide etc etc. Perhaps it's something I took for granted or couldn't see as I played BB for so long.

The reason I brought this up is, 2/3 of my RT opponents have been furiously competitive and now as that, I too have started tuning my lists a bit. Kind of out of necessity. So I was wondering if people had experienced the same in /tg/.

In this case, my definition of competitive is a mix of bringing a list using the maximum competituve choices to maximise chance of winning above all else. Though I see your point for BB as maybe not as obvious due to team limitations too, as well as less time involved.

Guess I just need to keep playibg more people though one lad is quite nice so, not all lost.

Here, have a bunny.

>>96006702
In what way? Using the most extreme case

>guy spends 500 smackers on his army
>optimised to win 9/10 games
>gets mad dopamine because of wins

>>96005053
MICE work ratnon
>>96005316
>>96005535
very nice work!!! i like that style of base too

i am the slowest gayest laziest painter in the world :’(

i started these goblins like a year ago at least…

>>96006832
erhmm these ones heheh

>>96006842
I always mustook that muscian for a banner bearer as a kid

>>96005279
> Held HOSTAGE by AOS
Literal retard and corpo cock sucker response. GW THEMSELVES decided to 'seperate' the lines, they have literally ZERO justification for it besides 'ummm the departments want to know who gets the bonuses for sales,' it does NOTHING but hurt sales, especially toward WHFB, there was no rational business case for this decision.

>>96006842
The wee Gobbo boss with the pointy hat and skulls second from left has always bedn one of my favourites. Good job saving one of em.

>>96005231 (OP)
Any pic with mounds of dead dirty filthy kiSLAVites gets a thumbs up from me
The more dead kiSLAVites the better! Burn Praag to the burn and make sure all the kiSLAVites are in it!

>>96006720
>>96006828
Not having been part of this discussion yet, I tend to agree that the initial investment, the time commitment, and the depth of rules can definitely change people's mindset. I've got a couple friends who are interested in wargaming, and I'm not having them play a GW ruleset specifically for that reason. They're stoners. I'm going to make them build a 750pt OPR army and they'll certainly have more fun. Spend less money too. Rules-heavy stuff with massive unit sizes will come later, or never. It's all about the audience.

>>96005613
It was intended as a 10 or 16 man kit so for every 10/16 you get the command sprue.
The new box just jams two of the old kit together so you get more command than you ever need

>>96005667
Don't spam the sky junks or artillery and you will be fine.
> Grey tide FAGGOTS
Just paint all your shit anon. Be the example. The ideal is you DONT play with ANY unpainted shit, ever. But if you are weak willed bitch (but trying to get better) EVERY game MORE MUST BE PAINTED. And you get that shit done in like two months tops (completely doable, you and other grey tide SHITTTERS weren't making a golden demon out of each troop, two months is fine for 2k).
> Fat fags on YouTube
Yeah avoid Mountain Miniatures for any Old World Content he is a gross fat cunt who WANTS to play WAAC but can't because his audience of simps would get prissy if he did. The only voice online you should bother listening to is DOCTOR LUKE BLAXILL. Think about it. Who should you listen too- a literal Cambridge educated doctorate guy who has been playing since the 90s, and has actually won events, or some fat Canadian fuck who shills for GW who has accomplished literally nothing?

>>96006828
Using the matched play guide is not necessarly full on compfag. Its stuff like playing halflings or ogres and your team isnt really either of them and is actually Griff, Morg, and some other faggot star player pick.

Playing a balanced game isnt comp but its just boring specially given teams have TVs that they are best suited to. Chaos for instance is by design difficult to use at 1000tv and at 1750tv will mostly just be takign core skills. Its boring ss they will mostly all play the same. Its just boring as at the lower TVs the everyone takes the same blodge, pass, wrestle, catch etc. skills and your team is made up of chess pieces rather than any BB-players with unique character.

If you want a less compfag experience have your group play a league where you:
>start at 1000tv
>only use star players as inducments
>play each other twice and then do a best of 4 or whatever depending on your group size
>try to keep teams going across multiple rounds of the above (leagues) so they develop. People starting new teams each league will get inducments but after a certain point Morg will not be that much better than some other players and they will have to actually play the game properly or take fun inducements to make up the difference.
>If you change your team you are free to pick the previous it back up again for the next one.

This is the best format to play. You will still get WAACfags who insist on overly keeping their tv low whereby they sack players so they can take Morg every game. But you will have people start taking skills beyond the nobrainers earlier/at all when they dont have a choice as theyve already picked them.

If you do special restrictions in the league you will also find out who is a WAACfag. For instance we did a 5 man league where you had NO inducments and started with 1000TV. The teams were:
Norse, Dwarves, Orcs, Undead, and myself as Khorne. The first two teams obviously are tryharding with mass block at start. I still won the league.

>>96005862
> Fat
> Fag jersey
> 'coaching services'
> Fat
Jesus Christ. What the fuck has this fat fuck even done. What grand tournaments has he won? Why should anyone listen to a FAT fuck who can't even pronounce 'Hoeth' correctly?

>>96006907
While I appreciate the BB advice, my main concern was finding less hard asses in TOW than BB. I've done BB at this point. 10 years of playing it and I am done.

Though yes, Griff or Morgflings or stunties is obvnoxious and I'd refuse to play any of those stupid lists if I ran into them outside if tourneys.

I actually got offered to join a BB group but I was pic related. That said for TOW, the bloke I am playing Friday is lovely and enjoys narrative games too.

Saturday guy I asked if we could meet in the middle as he purposelly said he likes optimised lists. He agreed so that's another plus.

>>96006828
>>gets mad dopamine because of wins
that doesn't happen if the games were shit to play in the first place, winning alone is not a source of entertainment unless you're mentally ill in some way.

I could tell you you just won a game you didn't even know you were playing right now, does that suddenly make you happier? would it make you sad if I told you you lost this secret game instead?
the answer is no

>>96006906
Stillmanina is always the way to go

>>96006940
>unless you're mentally ill in some way.

You know as does everyone in this thread there is a huge margin of nerds who are exactly that, much higher than in the general populace. Why do you think WAAC was even coined?

>I could tell you you just won a game you didn't even know you were playing right now, does that suddenly make you happier? would it make you sad if I told you you lost this secret game instead?

I don't think anyone would as they weren't invested or even involved in such an activity to begin with.

>>96006936
I would play them and see how they vibe with the game. As I mentioned before its mostly a spectrum and you will have people who you hate to play against but its hard to tell without seeign what they actually take or how they play. Optimal lists are fine and not WAACfag tier unless he ONLY plays with the best units, the best magic items, and never changes his list/netlists etc for every game. To find other players you might just have to endure playing with annoying people until the local scene grows.

>>96006906
I am a fan of Luke as well but jesus you're tearing into MM like hell. What did he do to you?

>>96006958
>as they weren't invested or even involved in such an activity
then you can understand how a waacfag army and a predictable broken game are not going to entertain people
they weren't involved in the list building aspect, it was an obligatory choice to get the most performing result, probably copied from somewhere
and they weren't involved in playing the game, as that was also just a mostly automated process once the list is tailored enough, not a test of skills, not a test of critical thinking, and certainly not a matter of personal choices and bets.


the most enjoyable games I've ever had, by FAR, were the ones where the battle was actually fought, and where it didn't actually matter who technically won or lost at the end of the game, not the games I won the easiest.

>>96006968
The bloke gave me his list in advance, me showing his after. I asked to meet in the middle and he did so. That said, his brief notes to others, he plays to opimise. Which is fine in principal, different people, differebt styles, but doesn't align with my way. Not a good match surface level.

Hell I refuse to use dragons because i find it too opimal, or strong. But yes we will see. Could be a lovely chap who just likes to win

>>96006973
mm is a fat annoying mushmouthed retard who can't even speak english clearly do to his morbid obesity (an outward sign of extreme retardation) and if I ever see a slow pan show of models with the worst moldlines I've ever seen in my life in front of the wost FDM prints ever put on a table like it's fucking cool I'm going to cry and shit myself

Does anyone know where the empty character sheet pdfs are for Old World RPG? I can't see them anywhere in the player's guide except for that one that's annotated.

>>96007047
there are a separate download that comes with the Drivethru download
here's a PNG version

>>96007078
page 2

>>96006860
GW wants you buying more models, you playing a different game systems with the same models you were already using for another system makes them no money.

>>96007090
insanely retarded mindset only someone with the intellect of a child or c-suite executive could possibly concieve because it absolutely does make them more money to double the market for their product lines and increase the cross polination of those markets

>>96006860
>Literal retard and corpo cock sucker response
Why do you think I was defending the decision? I wasn't.

>>96007078
>>96007086
Ahhh I see, don't suppose you got a pdf copy of it do you?

>>96007127
the poster you are replying to is low intelligence

>>96007132
4chan got rid of the ability to put PDF due to the recent hack, so no.

>>96006973
To be fair MM is the worst channel for batreps and Steve is a fat slob who also shills for GW

>>96005053
Looking good mate

>>96007151
Who does the best battle reports in your mind? I kinda liked tabletop tactics' ones but they can lay it on a bit thick sometimes and they don't focus on TOW.

>>96005316
Never should have come here...

>>96007110
"Expanding the market?" So demons must be the most popular army in every system then right? Since you can play it in so many?

>>96006906
Mountain miniatures is great and while he does play competitively in terms of he’s trying to win the game. The idea that their games are WAAC are horseshit that can be dismissed simply by watching the first 2 mins of each video and looking at the army lists they bring. Always uncompetitive/unoptimized lists with plenty of house rules to keep things in check too.

>>96006485
>live their lives in the display case.
demons for sure

What basing scheme makes the most sense for Bretonnian Exiles? I'm thinking either mossy forest, like they're encamped somewhere in the woods, or just simple static grass for a battlefield or tourney ground.

>>96007238
I could also do a Badlands rocky desert... but I'd rather use goblin green rims, and I don't see Bret Exiles dying fighting Orcs in the Badlands for nothing.

i should have around a thousand points of painted dwarfs, does the game work at that scale ?

>>96007259
Maybe some kind of savannah or steppe grass theme could be cool if you could find a reason to tie it into your army lore.

>>96007168
Rogue Element Gaming has the best batreps by far. Dude loves the hobby, is an old-schooler, is not into WAACshit, seems like a fun guy. He's also got a wife and 2 kids which if I'm being honest helps my enjoyment. Knowing that he's not some autistic fuck who's never touched a woman makes me feel better about wasting my time watching batreps lmao (I cannot say the same about Steve).

>>96007265
Yeah, it works. Personally, I prefer playing TOW at 1000 or 1500 points. 2000 point games take a long time and generally aren't very fun because everyone optimizes at that points value.

>>96007265
Gorgeous paintjobs

>>96007168
the french have planet wargame, they are very, very based

>>96007265
Yeah 1k pts is fine, albeit we house rule as hero level charactera only for most factions

jesus those cathay models

This is the beginning list, the sisters are a "bunker" for both characters. I'm only unsure if it lacks cohesion or actual punch.

High Elf Realms [999 pts]

Mage, Wizard [Level 2 Wizard], Dispel Scroll, Seed of Rebirth, Elementalism - 150
Handmaiden of the Everqueen, Horn of Isha, General, Seed of Rebirth, Foe Bane - 130
10 Silver Helms, Shields, Standard bearer [War Banner], Full Command - 283
10 Ellyrian Reavers, Shortbows, Skirmishers, Harbinger (champion), Musician - 204
15 Sisters of Avelorn, High Sister - 232

>>96007270
Ditto. Same with the Professor fellow. Ya his character is a bit hard to listen at times but he'd educated, well informed and very well spoken.

>>96006952
My only issue with Stillmania is I want to grow my armies and not be locked to only 2k (also the varnish thing). But I very much agree you should bring what YOU think your army should look like, and not give a fuck about the meta or the 'best' choices or whatever the fuck.

>>96007298
I know, I want them too. Patience is needed.

>>96006906
if you actually understood anything luke was saying you would understand that his main message is "do not actually take any of my advice or exploits, it results in ungentlemanly and unaesthetic warhammer and should be spat upon"

i get the feeling he cant help himself but cheese the absolute fuck out of the game but he openly and sarcastically acknowledges that it is directly against the spirit and aesthetic of the game and should not be used outside of a competitive environment.

and the fact that the mountain wants to play cheesy shit but chooses not to shows that he has the good manners and tact to play gentlemanly warhammer even when he would stand a better chance of victory doing otherwise.

>>96007297
it's okay i have those

>>96007320

He does have an annoying fat person voice.

>>96007320
Why are you such a faggot for a parasocial relationship?
>>96007326
Gorgeous mate. Yeah I think 1k points is a pretty sweet spot- 2 to 3 units, 2 or so characters and maybe a warmachine or monster. And the games play like 2hrs typically. You should have fun as dwarfs are solid right now.

>>96007224
Learn to read you stupid faggot.
Steve WANTS to play WAAC (and tries to slide it in), listen to that fuck talk to another infamous Waacfag got 'Dawi After Dark,' (who proudly admits he just jumps to the most broken shit in any wargame, is he saying he enjoyed AoS when he played the most broken army ever released in 2.0 and regularly brings abortions of dwarf lists to events). Steve only doesn't play WAAC because (a) Luka firmly refuses to play anything WAAC, at all, so Steve knows he can't go full WAAC because his streams would last 45 minutes and he couldn't get donations and (b) his audience is firmly anti WAAC and if he went all out they wouldn't watch (and more importantly, give him money). He is a firm GW shill who admitted that he has stopped using 3d prints because his handler warned him about it, he supported WAP right up until GW threw him early access to TOW (which is much, much worse), and routinely acts as a mouth piece of the designers to cover the gaping issues in TOW (oh I won't HOUSE RULE BUT I have 'an agreement' to not challenge heroes with unit champions).

>>96007311
You kinda have to bear through the che Guerrero but he throws down at the beginning of his videos. The man is fucking intelligent

>>96007320
Who the fuck said I didn't understand the Dr's message. I'm staring whose opinion should you listen too- an actually intelligent person who has been playing Warhammer for decades (and can play it well if he wants, see him winning events) or the fat fuck from Canada who just shills for GW?

>>96007346
I don't get the parasocial shit you see from some of these pathetic fags.
> Oh gee oh my, the streamer whom I pay each month RESPONDED to the super chat (that I laid to make) on his stream!!!!!!!!!!
Pathetic virgin behavior. If they get a whiff of pussy (or attention) they immediately simp

>>96005667
I'm in your situation, down to making promise I would try out tow if they released Cathay, although I don't care too much if people greytide as long as they are progressing on painting overall. The pure greytiders are often waacfaggers who are pains to play with anyways.

I'm wondering if there's anybody official color scheme examples for Cathay besides the green dudes, or if I should just base off TWW army schemes.

>>96007318
patience isn't required, i have to build and paint the battalion box for the lgs

>>96007439
I really like the box art scheme so i’m going for it. Since Iron Dragon isn’t going to be in the game for at least 6 more years as a model i don’t want to theme around him too much.

>>96007355
Not the guy you responded to but I liked Dawi until he discussed his 12+ gyrocopter list he brought to a tournament. He made logical sense why and didn't sugar coat it but after watching his dwarf tactic vods, I felt he may as well binned all of that as it was clear he just wanted to WAAC than play within the spirit of the army.

i havent played warhammer since i was 12 playing on a couple friends’ floors or pool tables with a very generalized and rough understanding of the rules using toy castles and stuff for terrain

>>96007298
Okay, the musician is fantastic. I normally don't bother with one but if I did start Cathay I pay for him.

Bit of a random question but semi related to warhammer.

Chainmail. Historically, would there be much difference in the protective qualities of Chainmail between a commander and a regular soldier?

Take Hastings. Would the chainmail armour of William have been better than the regular soldier?

>>96007533
Off topic and irrelevant especially as the models you posted would only care if the armor looked cool or was desecrated properly.
In other words fuck off

>>96007355
>simping for some obese retard
lol

>>96007558
Its armour and related to warhammer. No need to be so angry

>>96007458
Good idea. I should look at other media where I see chink fantasy or historical appear.

>>96007590
If you don't want to be called a retard for posting off topic maybe try /his/

>>96007657
Someone had a bad day

>673
Moreso if you actually played warhammer and knew lorez you'd know that the Pic you posted and your question are at odds

>>96007452
proof

>>96007696
Solid stuff there

Who are these hostile faggots in the thread today? Usually far more comfy. Sometimes time of the month?

>>96007533
Yeah, until the Early Modern period (and even then) soldiers would be expected to buy their own arms and armour, so a regular rank and file yeoman would have significantly worse armour than a Duke. As an aside, due to this fact the popular idea of the lowest peasants being rounded up and forced to fight for their lord basically didn't happen, what we might consider to be the lower middle class of the day (as in dude who maybe owned a few pigs and had bought out his serfdom) actually made up the rank and file. Obviously you would have lords rounding up randoms from time to time, but this would've been in desperate times only and yeah they would've just been in fuckin rags.

>>96007702
This is a routinely hostile general. Welcome to the snake pit.

>>96007696
That's a good scheme really pops on the shield.
Any idea for basing?

>>96007712
Thanks anon. I guess it'd make sense that even in less developed technology times, the leaders would still have higher quality material. Just went on a history binge there and all the armour testing had me think if the stuff being tested the common soldier wore. My conclusion was no and this reinforces it. Thanks again.

>>96007716
probably something basic, brown texture, brown shade, drybrush and a tuft or two

>>96007298
Looks nightmarish to paint.

>>96007730
What about something yellowish like Loess? Would contrast with the red green dark browns and be "somesort accurate" for a china based faction

>>96007728
Yeah no worries mate

>>96007728

For fantasy you could have the mail links inscribed with protective runes and sigils. I once watched a restoration video of a mughal coat of mail, and the links had Quranic verses and calligraphy on them, which seems insanely time-consuming.

>>96007794
That 100% sounds like a high class set of armour if they had Quranic verses in them. Bloody ridiculous if you think how small the chains are themselves.

I would think of doing it for my Dwarfs, runes on their vests to reinforce.

>>96007696
>really want these
>can't
Fuck!

>>96007141
You could always upload the pdf on a site like Catbox and just share the link to it here

yeah I think im solidified on my stance for not wanting the cathay models. They just arent for me

>>96007712
Generally speaking people also were quite eager to go to war, as spoils of war were a path to MAJOR wealth relative to the opprotunities of normal life, so getting to be levied and go stick it to the fucking french or whatever was quite a desirable thing, it wasn't getting drafted for Vietnam.

I just realized that if Minotaurs get Blood Greed by rolling doubles on their leadership test for Primal Fury it doesn't actually do anything unless they were the ones who charge into the combat.
Jesus

>>96007902
fine
https://files.catbox.moe/c8njix.pdf

>>96007314
stillman was being hyperbolic to make a point.
that point was to just make and play the army you think is cool, and stop chasing the latest edition / power creep / strongest codex / mathematically strongest build. editions come and go. whole games come and go. locking yourself in to something very specific like stillmania forces you to let go of all that meaningless shit and just enjoy the hobby.

>>96005535
How did you do the rusty blades?

>>96006916
>>96005877
This dude is "closed order" on youtube. He won 2 GTs in the early days of ToW by exploiting dragons when nobody knew what the fuck was going on.

Since then he has jobbed at every event and is the laughing stock of the german community. Dude is a retard and way too high on his own farts.

He is a small fry compared to pic rel

>>96005597
What would be a fun, but not competitive, slayer list? I wouldn't plan on taking it to any tourney (not that I really play) but just to have fun and I enjoy painting slayers

>>96007298
I really dislike the jade warrior design, but I like most of the other cathay designs in TWW< maybe they army will look cool one day

>>96007298
Wow those look like complete shit, CAD garbage

I>>96008314
There is another bloke who won a tournament with chaos. Andy2d6, entire army is retro chaos minis. Sound guy. He lost his second one but has a good attitude to the game.

>>96008351
CAD is a lot cleaner than hand sculpt and you know it
>>96008337
i think it suit a rigid, unwieldy empire to have a rigid, unwieldy armor infantry

>>96007739
i've painted 2 so far, i find them neat.
when i've painted the whole battalion box i might disagree with my previous opinion

>>96007533
I cant really give you an actual number or percentage, but a Lords chainmail hauberk would have been of better quality than that of a man-at-arms or some other poorfag yes.
Would likely have had smaller, harder to pierce rings, be riveted rather than butted etc, all of which increase protection but also increases the production time and cost significantly

>>96008385
They look as big as chaos knights. Gonna be a bitch to transport!

That said, nice job

>>96008432
Just use magnets and a tray.

>>96008423
That's it yes. All the tests of real chainmail is riveted but seemed a bit too good for a regular guy to have. Riveted seems phenomenal, butted seems crap and apparently butted was normal for soldidrs.

>>96005231 (OP)
>>Thread Question:
>propose an alternative army if infamy for your faction
caledorian host
ridden sun and moon dragons as special choices
dragon princes available as core and dragon princes on pegasi as convertible special choice (0-1 can be taken as core)
the unridden forge world emperor fire dragon (renamed as nova dragon) as new rare choice
the unridden forge world carmine dragon (renamed as comet dragon) as new hero choice
both of the unridden dragons get the gimmick of having access to wizard levels and a new lore of magic for this army of infamy

>>96008385
CADtastrophes are soulless trash. those could be ai designed korean mmo figures for all i know. a fully realized human could only derive satisfaction from the hand-sculpted works of art miniatures used to be…

>>96008512
a man can enjoy both

>>96008557
What have you thought about doing for the bases of your Cathay models?

>>96008575
something yellow was a good idea, model itself could use a bright third color

>>96008584
Cathay and real China do have a lot of deserts like the Gobi desert so it a Desert base would make sense

>>96005231 (OP)
>Thread Question:
>propose an alternative army if infamy for your faction
Corsairs raiders (i can imagine the 2 officials AoI being cult of Khaine / Cult of Slaanesh)

>>96008584
>warpstone desert base
>overflowing yellow river
>dried rice field, mfucker
>yellowish cobblestone
>carpet of dead hobgobs

>>96005231 (OP)
>TQ
Something Skryre to bring back shooting into combats
Something Pestilens, maybe a way to give out poison attacks or units take hits in prolonged combats from their plague-iness

>>96008644
>warpstone desert
with tiny green crystals ! i can see it, would be both fluffy and look cool
>overflowing yellow river
yellow mud then ? sound a bit flat
>dried rice field
hell yeah, that's more like it, how to do the rice tho ?
>carpet of dead hobgrots
my personnal favorite, but until my manager get rid of the 3rd AOS ones it's unlikely

>>96008314
guy looks like he looted a costume rental store

>>96008644
the warpstone desert is probably the best choice
>sand/gravel is easy and fast to place and paint
>can use cracked earth paint to create seams of wyrd green light underneath the slightly greenish yellow ground
>can use the same basing color for a warpstone cathay sentinel to cement the theme

>>96008385
Oooo what is your GW cock sucking Insta or YouTube channel called? Are you a minority or tranny so you get free shit just by asking GW and saying you have a channel???

>>96008631
A Corsair fleet and Northern Watchtower garrison list would be kino

>>96008729
all of my condolences for that lack of reading ability

>>96005909
Comp is literally about exploiting everything you can to win. It's important to have that side of it as well

>>96008631
>>96008742
what new stuff would a corsair army bring to the table? FW never really made much in terms of sea monsters, and high elves got the merwyrm

Wash has been applied. Now to wait for it to dry so I can apply highlights.

>>96005231 (OP)
>Warriors of Chaos
>Cold Mires
>Just bring back the old Tamurkhan stuff (Tamurkhan himself now generic "Chaos Lord on Toad Dragon")
>Fimir Warriors, Nobles, and the unreleased Balefiend because I want them and also they fit a swampy theme thing

Doesn't have to be specifically Cold Mires but just any kind of Swamp themed thing that brings back the Tamurkhan stuff.

>>96007298
Isn't it weird that these dudes get to have gorgets that actually hug their faces while the infantry has fuckhuge wide ones?

>>96008754
>throwing weapons everywhere
>regular crossbows but with pavises
>press-ganged slave rowers with two-handed weapons that always make full strikes back like it's 8th edition
>unarmored infantry that can move fast
Oh wait, most of this is just how corsairs of Umbar used to be.

>>96007560
> Inability to read
Jesus how do you (people) even play these games?
Oh wait you don't

>>96007355
nta
>the gaping issues in TOW (oh I won't HOUSE RULE BUT I have 'an agreement' to not challenge heroes with unit champion
Then what are unit champions good for? That 1 extra attack? Were unit champions prevented from challenges in other additions?

>>96008840
It's a shitty gamey mechanic that wraps the game. It's so shit the rules writers acknowledge how shitty it is in Miao's rules to try to stop it.
Champs should be able to fight other champs, maybe, but the current challenge rules are hot garbage.
> If they can't challenge then what's their point?????
They can still carry magic items and unless they are killed they help preserve your ability to attack back

So why don’t wood elves have a chariot?

>>96008858
chariots in forests are kind of a silly concept
but they did have chariots way way back

>>96008858
They're too stupid to figure out how wheels work.

>>96008840
>Then what are unit champions good for?
Not that anon, but in an ideal world they would all have access to magic items and be able to challenge other champions.

>>96008889
So to be the shittiest overcosted characters in the game no one take

>>96008840
It's a hold over from ancient days when unit champions were proper characters, but over time degenerated into a shitty gamey mechanic where an 11 point state trooper can call out a 600 point chaos lord and waste a whole turn of his as if any lord tier character would give a fuck about the challanges of a generic solider but with a plume on his hat while rampaging on a dragon through enemy lines.

also yes, 1 extra attack is actually very powerful in many cases for the points cost in many cases and modeling an extra cool guy in the unit is cool.

What do you imagine the heraldry and uniform of the Drakwald looked like? I imagine the reason there's no surviving information on the region is because the winds of Ulgu that the Skaven imploy to obscure their role in history pervade the forests.

>>96008925
no, because there's more to that ideal world

>>96008987
Ceased to exist while the empire was still in an early medieval era

>>96009037
Do you want to share what else is in that ideal world or do you have no idea how it would actually work?

>>96005231 (OP)
>tq
For Empire, I mostly hope if we get any more one makes teutogen guard or greatswords core. The rules weren't super flavorful even in the AoI so I don't really have high hope.

>>96008933
>also yes, 1 extra attack is actually very powerful in many cases for the points cost in many cases and modeling an extra cool guy in the unit is cool.

Lol no it isn't. Extra hand weapons only cost one point and a champion typically costs the same as adding a whole nother model to the unit

>>96008933
It's actually cool that a state troop champion can call out the biggest baddest champion of chaos and fight him 1 on 1 and it's ridiculous to claim otherwise.

>>96009081
Extreme no games take

>>96009092
It's completely retarded in narrative terms that a mighty lord suffers any penalty for refusing a challenge from a state trooper. You sufffer dishonor only from refusing to man up against a man who's a threat to you, not from refusing to accept, from atop a roaring gryphon, a skeleton champion emphatically waving it's arms at you instead of continuing to stomp through the regiment while extolling your gods of choice.

>>96006046
it's just an extra skull on the 5th edition skelly regiment sprue, comes with 2 types of attachable horns

>>96008987
>What do you imagine the heraldry and uniform of the Drakwald looked like?
probably something to do with dragons
the drakwalders were dragon blooded, allegedly

The command group should expand.
You should have an officer to act as unit leader, he is free and works like a regular trooper but he's the focal point for maneuvers, line of sight, etc.
Musicians and standard bearers as already exist.
Champions as specialists within the unit that exist just to seek out other champions and heroes to engage in glorious 1 to 1 duels.
Some sort of religious figure that grants no attacks but otherwise buffs the unit.
Perhaps even aides de camps.
I like how these aside from the last one are already things in the WAP Araby army.

>>96009134
What will his warband think if a chaos lord refuses a challenge, anon? Even from someone lowly and pathetic? Is Lord Quivering-Pussy going to be able to hold on to the reins of power if people start doubting him?

>>96009169
sounds pointless and redundant and not really something that's easily translated to all factions

>8th edition
>nigh gobbo horde fails animosity, has to charge elf spearhorde
>challenge his champion with my goblin champion
>while the elf unit shreds the night goblins to confetti, the night goblin champion slays the elf champion
The unit then ran and was chased down and eradicated that same turn.
Ah what a wonderful, fair, and balanced system 8th edition was.

>>96009171
The fact he then singlehandedly obliterated the entire regiment while the champion was busy attempting to go "um aktuclly sir you have to wait one turn for my noble sacrifice while those knights thunder towards your side instead of slaughtering me and all my men in an orgy of violence or you're gay" probably asuaged any doubts

>>96009182
This is why element or stand type games where dimensions matter more than rivet counting are much better for creative outflow.

>>96009208
He refused the challenge, he is shamed and cannot strike blows. And his unit, they scoff at him! He expects them to lead them on the path to glory when a mere mortal is enough to get him to cower?!
Pathetic.

>>96009216
You can have a spotter and some priest occupying spots in your unit without needing rules for them, and certain without expecting all other factions of the game to reconform to your anthropocentric view of how a command group should look.

which is even more retarded when you realise how an expanded command group can often turn the entire front rank into a bunch of random people who aren't actually holding weapons or fighters.

>>96009134
>It's completely retarded in narrative terms that a mighty lord suffers any penalty for refusing a challenge from a state trooper.

Yes a chaos lords refusing the engage in combat with someone should come with a penalty

>>96009134
>Extreme no games take

I would love to hear about all the games you've played where you paying for 1 extra attack on a state troop instead of spending it on literally anything else was helpful

>>96009247
Why? refusing challenges is a point of contention only when the challenger is worthy of a duel in the first place.
The current system of challenges gets used EXCLUSIVELY to bog down big enemy characters for one turn with disposable 20-something-pts models, it's the least honourable shit imaginable.

>>96009142
So the same spruce found in the Tomb Skeleton boxes for TOW?

>>96009167
>the drakwalders were dragon blooded, allegedly
so that's were Miao kids went

>>96009263
No, it doesn't. I've issued challenges with my chaos lord, who fights on foot, against dragon-riding generals several times. In damn near every game of TOW I've played, actually. Let me be clear, anon: You're arguing for a change to the game that makes dragon lords even better than they already are. Stop that.

>>96009167
>>96009284
And you fuckers said this illustration didn't make sense. I kneel to C7

>>96009169
This already exists in a few limited cases (Blessed Triptych) and it would be cool to see it more commonly, but the 3 that exist should remain the only generic types. Certain armies or units could have additional or altered options.

>>96009247
>>96009216
Proceding to the fight the entire unit instead of just the man who challenged you is not "cowering from a challenge". A vampire that reaps men like wheat is not going to pause when a mortal of no significantly greater challenge than the last 20 who's blood he still wears on his blade manages to raise his sword towards him without wobbling too much. He may pause when a mighty warrior priest bellows a rebuke, sure!

>>96009256
You genuinely just don't intuit the mechanics of the game, at all, why do you think characters can cost literally dozens of times what an infantry model does? Concentrating power into fewer models is better.

>>96009288
It is an entirely seperate problem from balance, it's a problem of narrative. You should only need to accept challenges from character of rough parity with yours.

>>96009296
Does this woman have a head or is it all neck?

>>96009296
THE BVLL OF OSTLAND

>>96009288
>You're arguing for a change to the game that makes dragon lords even better than they already are. Stop that.
No, I won't stop that simply because you're so stupid to think two wrongs make one right instead of accepting that the both the ridiculous rules for challenges should be changed AND also how dragons are currently overtuned.

>I've issued challenges with my chaos lord, who fights on foot, against dragon-riding generals
sStill exclusively to bog that shit down to win combat by bean counting, not for any real narratively fitting reason to issue a challenge.

The Chaosfags in these threads are some of the lowest scum imaginable.

>>96009345
The best model posters itt are chaosfags and it's not close

>>96009369
don't defend your bullshit by hiding behind the work of others

>>96009325
>to bog that shit down to win combat by bean counting
You do realize that there used to be no other way of dealing with a dragon-riding lord if you didn't bring one of your own besides challenging them out, right? And who are you to say there's no narrative reason behind that challenge? Were you there on my shoulder, watching as I played? If you're concerned about the narrative, then do as you please in your own games. You don't need to make sweeping changes to the rules that will affect everyone if you just want to play a narrative game. Challenges exist as they currently do for a reason.

>>96009317
>Proceding to the fight the entire unit
He couldn't even fight one man and the whelp thinks he can stand against a score of men!

>>96009372
You are very stupid

>>96007298
Just awful.

>>96009317
>Proceding to the fight the entire unit instead of just the man who challenged you is not "cowering from a challenge

Refusing to fight people unless its on your own terms makes you deem like a fussy anon regardless of how many others you've killed

>>96009322
THE THVMB OF OSTLAND

>>96009372
>there's no other counter!
then, again, both challenges and dragons should be changed
>I am t-totally issuing challenges for narrative reasons I swear!
faggot liar
>Challenges exist as they currently do for a reason.
No, challenges were implemented as a fun mechanic to have two characters fight without the rest of the units interfering, not to bog down a character for a turn by throwing at it something that has no chance at all to ever win that challenge
The fact they survived up until now is not some fine understanding of tournament play and meta balance, it's literally just because the rule used to exist that way once and got carried over as a refuse that the rules writers consider harmless because they're not writing the ruleset with sweaty waacfags in mind.

>>96009404
>unless its on your own terms
What terms? the challenge isn't changing the way of how the hero fights by asking him to step down from its mount or not use some of its items, nor it presents a more difficult task than fighting the rest of the unit. You're making no sense.

Hear me whore-sons of the north! I am Erasmus Der Arsefick, leader of the Strußeldorf swordsmen!
I challenge you, you that claim to be so high amongst men!

>>96009317
>why do you think characters can cost literally dozens of times what an infantry model does?

Because they're stat lines are way better you dumbass. Do you think a chaoslord costs 235 points because you can "concentrate power" or because it's statline is leagues better than any other regular infantry model?

>>96009317
You are a 21st century bugman who does not understand honour culture.

>>96009430
>what terms?

Fighting 1 on 1 Jesus thirst anon you can't be this retarded

Challenges should be handled like the Marauder AoI
The combat stops and both participants step forward and fight. The side that loses suffers a penalty

Challenges should make the player issuing the challenge bust out a CD player to start blasting the theme of the fight as dice are rolled.

>>96009433
I'll fuckin 'ave you, yuh fuckin suvvern poofter

>>96009433

>>96009495
>bust out a CD player
The fuck year is this? My Discman stopped working in 2004 and Sony fucking lied that it had 2 whole minutes of anti-skip....
Fuck it, the future is now, old man. These days we whip out our phones and play music from youtube videos.

Challenges should have me be able to impregnate the other player

Skaven should be able to use rank and file models to accept challenges.
No self respecting Skaven who has placed themselves in a position of power would put themselves in harms way.

>>96009317
And how would you codify this "rough parity", anon? Points cost? Lord/hero/champion distinctions? Will heroes no longer be allowed to challenge lords? Will champions no longer be allowed to challenge heroes? Should lords riding monsters really be allowed to destroy everything with even less restrictions, all in the name of your narrative?
>>96009412
How would you change dragons, without neutering them to the point of uselessness?
>challenges were implemented as a fun mechanic
Challenges are fun, I agree. Some of my favorite moments from the games I've played happened during challenges, including the two separate times my chaos lord repelled a lord riding a dragon for 2 or more turns. Are you seriously telling me I shouldn't have been allowed to declare that challenge when my chaos lord actually did have a chance of winning? Talk about a waste of an opportunity for a great narrative! What about the slim chance that a lowly unit champion might survive the dragon's onslaught? Talk about a story to tell! But no, you think such things shouldn't be allowed because your narrative involves your lord on a monster being allowed to do as he pleases. Are the rules for challenges ripe for exploitation and abuse? Sure! So is every other rule on every other page of the rule book. That doesn't mean we should introduce a bunch of restrictions to force people to play the way you want them to. One could even argue that great narratives emerge as a result of people pushing the game to the limit, but those aren't the narratives you want, so they should be forbidden from doing so, right? Who died and made you king?

>>96009514
I got a portable DVD player on Amazon for like $20 and that plays music.

>>96009445
Why would fighting 1 vs 1 be an unfavourable term when he was going to fight against the whole unit anyway? You're not challenging him so he loses the backing of his own unit.
1vs1 means jack shit here, you rotten foodstuff for amoebae.

>>96009516
>risking being impregnated yourself
I respect a serious player

>>96009521
Better, it's flipped. Skaven can't follow-obey someone so stupid-foolish that would throw-waste their own life away.

>>96009527
>I don't use challenges just to bog down characters my unit can't deal with!
>my fondest memories involve times I bogged down characters my unit couldn't deal with for 2 turns!

>How would you change dragons,
rider wounds and monster wounds are counted separately and the two don't share their respective saves
>inb4 but that would take 10 seconds longer to play!

>>96009527
What a pile of dishonest waacfag bullshit.

uhhh elf....? elf...? got distracted painting my glade guard and started on one of my lords. what do u think... tell me or I'll be upset....

>>96009437
Retard. What increases the combat ability of a unit more, a champion upgrade, or another model at the back of the regiment that can't attack?

>>96009439
Retard, but commonwealth, so expected. In every culture with a concept of honor in all human history, there was only ever dishonor in refusing challenges from your social equals. An officer was not shamed for refusing a duel from some angry common soldier.

>>96009527
I think lords being able to ignore champions without penalty would be reasonable, and champions being unable to respond to lords without the lord player's consent would be resonable. And you are also retarded (or evil if you're being dishonest), the balance of monster lords and the narrative quality of the rules are seperate issues. If this was done, knock on effects would obviously have to be addressed as well. In an ideal world the game is both well balanced and free of gamey mechanics.

>a unit champion shouldn't be able to challenge a dragon lord so he loses by combat res and then breaks and gets run down, my big shiny centerpiece should dominate more than it does already
Why?

>>96009552
I like yours better

>>96009585
>>a unit champion shouldn't be able to challenge a dragon lord so he loses by combat res and then breaks and gets run down
Correct, because it's absurd that a monster that is more than ready to take on the unit as a whole is forced to fight only one dude and lose on a technicality due to that.
If you think monsters are too strong, then propose changes to monsters instead of defending other shitty rules you've been abusing to fight them, we're talking about hypotheticals here, you should be able to consider them even if you didn't eat breakfast today.

>>96009605
Don't charge into massed infantry. Doesn't go well in Warmaster, shouldn't go well here either.

Do players not see a fantasy movie in their head when they play this game? I think chump challenge defenders probably can't rotate a cow in their head, that's my only way of understanding this.

>>96009276
I never owned the TK version, but watched an unboxing video just for you and can say: yes!

>>96009624
>the dragon lands, the officer steps out and salutes
>the lord understands the challenge, dismounts, and fights
>he has won, but the mass of foes ahead unnerve him and his beast now that he's at foot level
>he turns to run, to mount anew
>but it is too late
Have some imagination.

>>96009624
A random nobody seizing his moment of destiny to face seemingly impossible odds is the stuff of legends anon.

>>96009563
No, those are not my fondest memories related to challenges, they're just the ones that were relevant to the discussion at hand. That's what "some of" means, anon. Nevertheless, yes, I was proud when my chaos lord survived and almost killed the uber-meta dragons and their uber-meta riders. Wouldn't you be? As I already said, that's a narrative, man! The underdog! But that's not your narrative, so of course you'll just ignore it and instead you'll just call everyone who disagrees with you a waacfag and a liar.
>rider and monster wounds counted separately
Setting aside the fact I completely agree with you on this and this alone, how the hell does that fix the problem of dragon lords charging into the front of a unit and auto-winning? The units that are being charged don't get to attack at all! That's what was happening before the errata and that's what will continue to happen if challenges get changed the way you want them to. Decoupling rider and mount profiles will just make monsters insta-die to cannons and doesn't actually fix the problem that dragon lords obliterate and auto-defeat units on the charge with zero counterplay. That's how it worked in 6th and, while I think it's better than what we have now, it's not actually addressing the problem we're discussing.
>>96009582
I think that's a load of crap that will only make the game's narrative worse. Hell, the rules for challenges still advantage the stronger fighter! That's what the overkill bonus does - the only thing that changed is that dragon lords will no longer get to slaughter an enemy character and then get a retarded amount of overkill with the extra dragon attacks. You know what you still get even after you get challenged by a unit champion? A lot of overkill! If your dragon lord charges a unit anywhere besides its front, he will win! But you're just going to continue using the "narrative" as a shield, accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being a waacfag. Fight the challenge, anon.

>>96009582
exhausting retard. stop posting anytime

>>96009660
Yea that's extremely contrived for the core mechanics of the game. A chaos dragon fails it's impetuous test, charging into the unit of brettonian peasent with slavering jaws as the chaos lord fails to control this willful titan, eyes maddened with blood lust and.... pauses politely for this dude and refrains from crashing full wroth into the regiment.

>>96009680
That happens when a random goblin unit reduced to it's last few members shockingly succeeds a leadership test at a critical moment, or when a champion just happens to inflict shockingly significant attacks in a particular battle.

It does not happen when the goblin with the tallest hat routinely and systematically steps forward to be effortlessly turned into a red puddle in order to manipulate the flow of battle

>>96009722
I am so much smarter than you it's actually crazy. Probably taller too and can bench more. Lol.

>>96009613
this is not warmaster. It doesn't work there because you're trying to solo a regiment. here you're talking about soloing a squad. these are not equivalent.

>>96009605
>and lose on a technicality due to that

Just think for a second. This "technicality" is easily explained by lore/storytelling.

>Charge into some rando big regiment, those fuckers will be culled before they can even react!
>a freaking sergeant throws his life away to duel you, keeping you busy, so you can't just kill them all
>after you smashed his face into red mist and you stand triumphant over that idiot, the combat ends
>while you and your dragon get ready to fight the rest, you notice that they are pretty well organised (rank bonus, banner..stuff!) and decide: well MAYBE I should better fuck off, now that I don't have the charge anymore and got my adrenaline dumped thanks to the stupid duel, this situation doesn't seem so cool anymore"

>>96009752
The squad represents a regiment anon, it's not 3rd where it's 1 to 1.

>>96009762
The rules are absolutely written to be 1:1

>>96009754
How does the seargent keep vlad von carstein busy

>>96009767
Not for a long time. It's something of an identity crisis Warhammer has had for ages where it wants to keep its core role playing game mechanics with stats for minutiae but at the same time wants to represent mass fantasy battles. So there is some degree of abstraction as to how many warriors each figure represents because you may only have twenty swordsmen, but they're standing in for a hundred, while a dragon lord is just one dude.

>>96009781
by being a particularly succulent meal, I would think
and good for him! and fuck you for taking named characters

>>96009781
maybe he ate a lof of garlic, has a holy symbol with him, was quick enough to bother him, had a good taunt about Isabella ready or maybe Vlad is just too arrogant and wants to make a horrific example out of the sergeant to break the moral of his men.

Have some imagination.

>>96009785
If that were actually the case in any real way beyond a lazy paragraph by gw here and there of someone saying "well you CAN imagine you have a whole army :)", the game would not have templates, individual casualty removal, ect, it would be warmaster played with 28mm models.

>>96009581
I have positive bias towards the model but it's really great anon, lovely scheme and the black hair really works.

>>96009819
Crazy that every single regiment has one guy in it who's done something like that and the mighty lord of darkness is compelled to humor it every single time. What a coincidence!

>>96009837
crazy how it's part of the game and you should deal with it

>>96009858
I accept your consession.

>>96009837
The funny thing is: they don't by default. You have to pay for that little insurance.
But you are getting really petty and autistic about it now.

>>96009873
I'm sitting on top of a towering throne of correctness and not a single stone cast my way by the fools of this thread has even managed to clatter at my feet, much like the challenges of meager single wound mortals would fail to stir the lust for glory in even the lowliest of lord's hearts

so whens the second wave of cathay with miao ying supposed to drop? are we talking like 1 month or 6?

>>96009894
you talk like perryfag, I think you should go away

And lo, with Perryfag fled to the hills, Challengefag stepped into the breach, determined to become /wfg/'s newest lolcow

>>96009911
I'm right

>>96009581
Looks autumnal, my fav kind.

Honestly if you don’t like challenges anons just play a different wargame.
I for one find
“One brave lad steps forward as his unit shirks away from this horrifying foe”
“Shoving a lone rat into the way then strategically fucking off”
“A hero forced to concentrate on a worthy foe - an ancient undead who rises again and again”

- the heroic sacrifice/bait/whoever means at the end of combat the rest of the unit is pressed to pull down the monster rider off their mount. Encircling them. Hastily the hero realises this and falls back, escaping encirclement.

Ultimately I like challenges a lot as it depowers the super heroism which is so rife, even in this thread.
Even a mighty dragon riding lord could be cut down by a foe he pays no attention to, hence accepting the challenge.

>>96009296

>>96009581
It's hard to pull of the right shades of orange and brown for autumn theme, well done anon.
>retards bitching about challenges and champions
Beyond the fact that +1a in a rank that never dies being usually worth the pts (even for state troops) the idea of a man challenging a lord he has 0 chance of beating to save his men or own lord is pretty thematic. I do think it's abused a bit but could fixed imho with a rule like
>only can issue challenges if a character is in his unit
> a lord level character who refuses a challenge from a champion doesnt have to retire to the back ranks but he loses his inspiring presence for the turn as his soldiers are less sures hes really such a bad ass. a mounted lord level character who refuses a champions challenge loses its mount attacks as it avoids the overconfident cur.

>>96009947
penalties for challenges only occuring if in a unit makes sense

>>96009920
Smegmashit

>>96009970
No models

>>96009970
Begone, wyrm

>>96009970
sigmar models look better and can easily fit on square bases with the new base sizes, the only reason not to use them is being a buck broken GW rape victim who should be off imagining playing 6th and not actually playing anything

>sigmar models look better

>>96009821
GW seldom shies away from established tradition.
I'd like to try a Warhammer that feels more like pike and shotte, and thankfully there's Warmaster for that and Skirmish for down in the nitty gritty. Fantasy Battle is in a weird middle ground.

>>96009990
yep

>>96010000
>hip hop dance poses
Nah.

>>96010000
>that shield
what the fuck happened

>>96009995
My head canon has always been that it's 1:1 and primarly centers around squabbles in the border princes between baron literally whos, as the one place it's pretty easy to justify any army you like being there, and where squabbles on the scale of 100 men against another 100 men happen all the time.

Of course, having prominent rules for the heads of state of every race does throw fly in the ointment of that, but it's close enough to work for me.

>>96009970
You WILL continue to use some of the worst models ever made

>>96010002
yea they're so exagerated and crazy

>>96010017
This is worse when you consider dark elves got better dinos.

>>96010017
n-no you don't understand it's charming!

>>96010026
Aren't Lizardmen Cold Ones circa 6th ed? Replacing the old Fat Ones.
Didn't Delves get a refresh on theirs during 8th?

I don't care what anyone says, the new smegmar Saurus look way better than the old Saurus. Even if the new ones barely rank up, even on 30mm squares.
New Kroxigor are better looking too. Pity their rules in TOW are such shit.

>>96010024
god those models are nice
don't use them for your shitposting, you degenerate filth

>>96010043
I prefer the poses on the old ones and I dislike the 'sci fi' look on the new ones

>>96010043
with a rare few exceptions (skeletons perhaps), the one to one remakes from aos almost always mog the fuck out of the old plastic models. Sometimes the old metal models do win on charm, but the middle plastics are very rarely the best versions a unit has ever had. only people disagree are fags who feel genuinely hurt by gw but still came back to suckle at the TOW teat

>>96010058
I own a lot of them and rank them up with AoS models in the same unit

>>96010075
post proof or die

>>96010078

>>96010071
you post this a lot

>>96010043
>>96009970
I have 16 of the old cold one riders. They're easily one of my least favorite models I've ever had the displeasure to paint. They don't fit together, there are so many gaps, they're extremely ugly, they're just bad. That being said, I actually do really like the old Saurus Warriors.

>>96010095
yeah right, that anon is way too cool to be you
nice job stealing his picture from last thread

>>96010043
Good thing your kind is banished to the Shitmarine mines, as your loud ugly figures are incompatible with the basing structure.

>>96010095
Point out all the AoS warriors in this image.

>>96009501
Shut ze fuck up Chaos faguette, stand and deliver!

>>96010000
It's shit. Cool helmet though

>>96010148
Hey now
Censer that word of hate and call him a baguette

>>96010158
>Censer
Being a shiteating sodomite faggot wasn't enough, you had to be retarded as well

>>96010134
forgot I haven't painted any of them in that picture and too lazy to get the army out for another photo but there's a bunch of aos stuff in the maurader unit, the red face shield guy is the most obvious

>>96009512
actually lolled at this image

>>96007186
do you think they sell more bloodletters because you can use them in 4 games, or would they sell more if you could only use them in 40k.

>>96010061
I also don't like the sci-fi-ness of the "seraphon"
I used the old scale shields on the new models just to give them a more classic look.

>>96010267
almost every art design change on aos stuff is a downgrade, but when the cleave close to the fantasy designs, they do really well.

>>96010125
Nigger, I've been playing Old World with them.
They rank up. It's just annoying.
I've played more TOW games with them than you've ever played in your life, fucking secondary.

I just want to say all the really bad posts in this thread? Those were me.

>>96010273
Lmao, smeggie crying.

>>96010317
You bastard

I’m going to be honest. Infantry? They look like shit. We mad maxing it with those AOI now.

>>96009167
The 3rd Emperor (as in the second one after Sigmar himself) was from the Darkwald, and he slew the last dragon that was living in the Empire.

Since this thread is fucked anyway I'm going to bitch
>GW ups base size, creating an annoying extra level of work for people with old collections and stopping new players from having collections that can play old editions
>"Oh it's for those old models that never fit right together anyway"
>Scale creep new models to their new shitty 30-32mm scale making them out of place next to old models
28mm scale was already way too big for a wargame played with 100+ models on a 6x4 and GW only made it worse. Why do people onions for a larger scale? You're getting less models for your plastic/money and as a RnF wargame individual rank and file models having loads of detail only detracts from the overall look. I'm so jealous of LotRs 25mm/true28mm scale, they got it right.

>>96010463
Or perhaps WARMASTER?

>>96010463
I don’t think anyone would care for the setting if it was true 25mm.

>played against beastmen wild herds
>opponent brought a massive primal herd brick
>great bray shaman and bsb inside
>shaman with black maul, jagged dagger
>2d6+2/3 s6/7+d6 ap-3 attacks at initiative
Not really sure what to do about this other than bring a dragon. If you challenge, they can just accept on the champ / bsb and the shaman + gors will blow up your whatever unit. Multiple hellblasters might work.

>>96010505
Lotr is true 25mm and it's an even bigger IP.

I ordered my first dwarf recasts but now I'm hooked and feel like doing chaos dwarfs
What do you guys recommend?
I'm worried people will get mad because they know my chaos dwarfs are likely recasts if i do go that route and people would tolerate 3D prints more?
Any good alternative model kits? I think people use the AOS goblins for hobgoblins?

>>96010463
There were armies that fit together very poorly in 8th. My friend's legion of azghor in particular really did not work well.

>>96010527
They're out of production minis that GW has specifically stated they have no intention of supporting. Even if you try to buy them used, there's a very high chance they're recast unless they're new in box. The only person who might care is a GW employee and I don't think they are supposed to accuse you. But with 3d prints they definitely can and will throw you out.

>>96010518
I assume you are empire?
Also how is he gaining so many attacks? He should be rolling d6+2 st6 attacks with the black maul. At ws5 he should be hitting most Heros or elites on a 4, so av 2 to 3 hits connect. As empire, a brick of demigrphs with a lord could fuck them up? Maybe paired with a state troop flank (or Demi flank) to take away their rank bonuses.

>>96010527
On Etsy there are some good hobgobbo like fazbel that are pretty close to the spirit of the OG models and way cheaper than trying to find God forbid even 10 hobbos legit.
I find recasts of big hats are hard often but the forgeworld stuff is pretty easy to find recasts.

>>96010463
>more detail (this isn't always good with GW tho)
>less repetitive painting
>faster games
> looks cool on a shelf faster
>cheaper (gw tho lol like seriously AoS is cooked ppm)
> bigger if needed to be used as a dildo, not that we ever would right...

>>96010735
Mantle of ghorok. I play Empire, chorfs, dwarves, and ogres.

>>96010826
Just bring an anvil as dwarves and he won't be likely to get the mantle off and your dwarfs should be pretty ok into beast infantry masses, use gyros to flank charge or even slayers if he lacks range.
For chorfs I know less but guns followed by a flank great Taurus lord should make his life he'll. Also bring the fuck you dispel item

There he goes. Now to do his shield. And base.
Then repeat it 11 more times.

Sad that there are so many Sigsisters in this thread

>>96011047
Ita a good color scheme anon, even though the face looks a bit pale

How [/spoiler]fun and fluffy would it be to run a bray shaman with warped gors?

How fun and fluffy would it be to run a bray shaman in a unit of warped gors?

I have confused myself about characteristic tests and modifiers. If you have something decreasing your initiative, I would think it would negatively impact your test. But if you charge, the rules say you modify your characteristic until the end of turn, so would an i2 unit that charges 3" test vs i5? Additionally, if you have infantry with full plate and shield, that gets plague of rust cast on them, their armour save is now a 5+ when combat phase comes around, so could you apply parry to get a 4+?

>>96010845
I will try gyros next time. The anvil is great for the viletides, but the damn shaman can hit +5 to cast which the anvil still isn't stopping reliably.

Marauder horsemen proxies?

>>96005231 (OP)
I'm pretty new to the hobby and I just realized highly competitive warhammer is so ridiculously stupid. I don't think the game is designed to even be played super seriously as the rules are pretty clumsy and it's kinda hard to be super accurate in your measurements.

People take 3D printed armies painted with black primer and spam one unit type. Why just not play chess if you give zero fucks about the aesthetics of the game?

>>96011176
100% agreed, personally I want to build up a fun roster of units so I can play fun, casual and narrative games, maybe even trying to string battles together to make an overarching narrative.

>>96011176
It's a lot easier to be the sweatiest autist in warhammer. With chess there will always be several thousand 5 years olds that will be many times better than you shall ever be. Most the time all it takes to be the most competitive at your lgs is a will to be so.

>wild riders charge my tomb guard
>I win combat
I like the new rules

>>96008385
Good choice of colors, but are they on the TOW base sizes? They're fucking huge.

>Chink knights have Horde
Are we seriously expected to take these in 15+ size units?

>>96011260
It would be funny.

>>96011260
It’s seems like a massive investment for an average cavalry unit

>>96011260
tomb king chariots also have horde. dont see anyone playing 9 of them in one unit.

OK so being Heavy Cav they really only need ranks of four, so 12 would be enough to get that second rank bonus, although they'd lose it with one failed save so I guess if you REALLY cared about it you'd take at least a few more than that (start a FOURTH rank though? For Knights?)

>>96011151
>so would an i2 unit that charges 3" test vs i5?
Yes
>their armour save is now a 5+ when combat phase comes around, so could you apply parry to get a 4+?
No it would be 5+, parry save maxes out at 3+.

why did GW make the cathay balloon so good when its the worst unit in cathays TWW roster, if not in the whole game?

>>96010272
>when the cleave close to the fantasy designs, they do really well
When do they ever do this though? The Wight King? The new Skaven and WoC look like shit

>>96011343
bequoise the one game has nothing to do with the other

>>96011365
The newer Vampires and skellies are largely 1:1 upgrades. Most of the new Skaven look fantastic, too, incidentally not the new creations such as the chieftain riding zombie rat and the ratling but bigger.

>>96005231 (OP)
>TQ
Bretonnian Army of Infamy: Grail Quest

>Characters
Up to 50% of your army's points value may be spent on
>0-1 Duke
>0-1 Prophetess
>1+ Paladin
>1+ Damsel
>Barons

>Core
At least 50% of your army's points value must be spent on
>1+ units of Questing Knights per 1000pts
>Knights of the Realm on Foot

>Special
Up to 33% of your army's points value may be spent on
>Grail Pilgrims

>Rare
Up to 25% of your army's points value may be spent on
>Grail Knights

>Restrictions
All Paladins and Barons must be upgraded to take the Questing vow.
All units of KotR on foot must be upgraded to take the Questing Vow at a cost of 10ppm and gain +1S.

>Champions of the Lady
Any unit or character that successfully removes the last wound from any model with the behemoth unit type or the opposing army's general automatically gains thr Grail Vow for the rest of game. Note: any chatacters attached to a unit at the time this Vow is gained by said unit or vice versa also gain this special rule, even if said character subsequently leaves that unit, but will not confer to any subsequent units or characters joined unless they too fulfill the above requirements.

>>96011367
but they wrote an 8th edition book for cathay so CA would know how to make the units for total war. So I would assume, the balloons were trash in this book as well. why make them so strong now?

>>96011386
Maybe they would've been trash in 8th then?

>>96011386
Maybe they would've been better in 8th then? Also not sure if CA derived their stats that closely or if they had to come up with their own balancing.

>>96011343
Because they want to sell the big flashy model? Duh

>>96011382
Grail pilgrims should absolutely be core, especially if you have min 50% core. Very boring list.

>>96011343
>Model has to be fuckhueg because the balloon looks unbelievably stupid otherwise
>Model has to cost a ton of money because it's fuckhueg
>Model has to have good stats because it cost a ton of money (a mental fallacy endemic to GW and its customers)
>Model has good stats
It's literally because they let CA design a balloon with multiple crew and a proportionate gondola. They had no other choice but to make it good after that.

>>96011433
GW could have shrunk the balloon if they wanted, they're no strangers to proportionally-ridiculous vehicles

>>96011163
Well if hes getting +5, he must have 1 shaman nearby and the herdstone nearby. means your guns should be able to do their thing since hes huddled more defensively. Plus if he misscasts it will make his shaman much easier to kill.
Its still dumb but does mean if the battlefield isnt set up by him you should get a good round or 2 of shooting off.

>>96011452
I'm basing my thought on this WarCom article they did. Reading between the lines, even the designers seem a bit frustrated with the baloonification process. Maybe schizo, but to me those paragraphs say "bean counters were knocking on the door every day when they saw the size of this thing"
Also consider that when GW made a balloon army for their other game, they conspicuously used "floating round things" that are not balloons at all, disproportionately small. I think that the relatively large amounts of plastic used in balloons, the lack of detail and inability to transport them, the insistence that all models are ABS plastic and you can't switch materials ever, nor do they tend to support detachable segments... All these sacred cows of GWs design would seem to make balloons their nightmare.

Finished these guys.

>>96011433
>>Model has to be fuckhueg because the balloon looks unbelievably stupid otherwise
they could have redesigned the basic lantern to have only one guy riding in it instead of 5
same way they could have made the sentinel giant sized instead of megagiant sized

>>96011568
>gets one attack
bad

>>96011572
it would still have the bomb runs, and that one attack can be made useful via special rules, besides the explicit role of the lantern is to support other units, it's not to deal damage, gw should have released crane gunners on foot.

>>96011433
They'd never do it but I wish it was just a cool model to put on a display board or in a cabinet and didn't have rules. I've never been one to say flyers shouldn't be in 40k or the like, but they make no sense in fantasy. Like yes, my empire greatswords will go charge a hot air ballon. Very cool gw.

>>96011581
GW should have done a lot of things, including adding crossbows to the jade warrior kit or having any peasant units in the first cathay wave.

>>96011612
Add jade warriors crossbows, crowmen and Yuan Bo and that's my entire army finished.

I'm slowly chipping away at my 1k points Cathay, being the expeditionary force it made sense for Sentinels to carry all supplies needed

>>96011638
What the fuck is the middle unit supposed to be?

>>96011552
Good job!

>>96011645
What could the big stone guy be in the army that has a big stone guy?
I've no clue myself, perhaps given its base it's an oversized baggage train.

>>96011645
Sentinel, I'll probably be magnetizing a dude on one of the platforms to show the type but I'm defaulting it as a jade one for an overcosted spell platform.

>>96011638
Where are the crew for the cannons?

>>96011657
>jade
>overcosted

>>96011660
Not yet ready, I've painted an ogre and a dude to check the color schemes

>>96011668
>250 for a glorified ruby ring of ruin

>>96011671
did you just upscale a normal dude for the ogre?

>>96011676
>+3 to casting where now +2 is the limit
>can choose the spell and not be limited to a basic ass fireball
>the spell is actually just 20pts
>the rest of the 230pts are for the 6 wounds at T6 monster that can easily blend both infantry units and other monsters in combat

>>96011696
>monsters mattering for shit

>>96011701
well of course (you) won't have to deal with monsters since you're also going to have 2 rapid firing cannons to get rid of any in the first turn
but as far as the rest of the game is concerned, the jade sentinel is not undercosted in the slightest

>>96011712
They keep blowing themselves up every batrep. It's funny.

>>96011712
>undercosted
overcosted

>>96011715
Just hopping into the reply chain but the internet told me the cannons are gonna be OP as fuck. Was the internet wrong?

>>96011751
In a best case scenario where they work? Very op.
In real life where they can misfire and blow up? Still pretty good.

>>96011751
No, the cannons don't have any tendency to explode any more often than other cannons and if a misfire happens on the first shot of a cannon the ogre loader can be used to reroll that shot instead of firing another time, so the cannon could only ever explode after it has successfully shot at least once.

>>96011751
They are very good as a unit, but a decent part of why empire cannons work is having both the cheapest and best engineers. In a future where Cathay gets a carbon copy empire engineer they're op. Currently they're just very good imo.

On this day, exactly 10 years ago, Warhammer Fantasy officially died, making way for Age of Sigmar.

>>96011787
forgot pic

>>96011787
>>96011790
based. Now I have two fun warhammer fantasy games to play.

>>96011787
And they came crawling back.
It's really bad on us we said yes like an abused spouse, but at least the good figures aren't $120 for a partial box of 8 knight.

halfway done with the WElves battalion box
not particularly happy with the wild riders, I feel like they're sloppier than they should be, and I'm experiencing a bit of burnout
but here are my latest painted guys

>>96011810
Correct and based opinion

>>96006973
He is a pre-6th edition ogre disguising as a YouTuber.

>>96011980
Nah.

>>96008710
I met him at a tournament once. And I had the same feeling.
Very very chill guy and quite pleasant to chat with.
He also gave me the impression of being someone who, in private, dresses as a woman which stockings and everything.

>>96011376

>>96011376
the new skeletons aren't even 1:1, let alone upgrades

>>96012044
Cry harder faggot

>>96008484
>dragon princes on pegasi
Wait, why isn't this a thing in the first place? winged horses are better than horses at simulating dragons, and ulthuan surely has no shortage of pegasi, especially for nobles such as dragon princes.

>>96011568
>megagiant
it's mega only if it's a gargant
if it's a giant it's giga

Some more GW paint jobs for Cathay models,
the slight green Porcelain look is interesting.
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/diy4cycs/the-warhammer-community-team-experiment-with-grand-cathay/

>>96012150
You don't want to give everyone the tools of everyone else, pegasus cavalry is property of bretonnians, they don't have much else going on without that.

Tomorrow I am facing Vampire Counts. Assuming he hides his necromancer general behind his army, what is the best way for me to get at him?

I will be using WOC and have no ranged exvept a lvl 1 sorcerer.

With the new rules for attacking within movement how wide should by greatsword block be?

>>96012080
I bought some retro Skeletons and I have the new skeletons, and I don’t know why I just simply like the older ones better. It sounds very console wars to put it this way, but I really am thinking of abandoning the AoS project and converting them to squares.

I can't paint eyes, now they want me to paint Chinese eyes?!

New development in the smash your opponents models school of thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZgEh9rOfvo

>>96012214
the new ones just don't show enough bones, what's the fucking point of skeletons if you don't see the skeletons

>>96012214
They're simple, humble, and not all fighting for attention with stupid armour and CAD wiggly cloth effects. The new ones look like Elden Ring, the old ones look like Warhammer.

>>96012246
creep

>>96012225
He should have tried to get an old pewter cannon

>>96012192
that purple one is pretty close to what i was thinking. gonna try lu bu's purple trim, silver scales and red sash/tasles

>>96012192
Wtf

>>96012298

>>96011376
disagree on skeletons specifically, but the zombies, blood knights, and dire wolves absolutely mog, the nighthaunt mog all old ghost models, and the fell bats are nice but much too large. The wight king on horse with lance is also in the running for best model ever.

>>96005231 (OP)
ive always felt the empire lacked the prestige that even the historic hre had. the hre had elements of italy, France and Spain in it and had claims to much of Europe and Christendom as the heir of Charlemagne and the gaurenteer of the pope and the catholic church.

On the other hand, The empire is just really the german lands and maybe a bit of hungry/checia out east. With Tilea (italy) Bretonnia (france) and estalia (spain) doing pretty much their own thing. THier patron god isnt even that widely spread outside of the empire it seems. Its not like the above connections couldnt be true while making each of the other europe analogs thier own things with only lip service fealty to the pope (grand theogonist) and emperor (Or dispute the emperors position like the king of bretonia)

>>96010255
They would sell less demon miniatures but sell more demon miniatures overall since demon players would be more motivated to but into another army

>>96012331
that's because it's just the empire and not the holy roman empire.

ideally the empire would have long inglobated kislev, estalia, tilea, bretonnia and the border princes within its borders, even if these wouldn't be treated like the core provinces and left to their own forms of local government.

>>96009563
Reducing their durability isn't going to change the fact they delete the unit on the charge anon

>>96009582
>Retard. What increases the combat ability of a unit more, a champion upgrade, or another model at the back of the regiment that can't attack?

What's more worthwhile, an extra attack on one model or an extra attack on your whole frontage?

>>96012331
WHF aren't Christians and don't have that same aspiration to unity I guess. There is a broadly shared pantheon between the 'European' humans (including Taal, Rhya, Shaalya, Manaan, etc) but afaik there's no organised church for it in the same way that medieval Catholcs or even pagan Rome had. Definitely something the setting could expand upon. Even the name 'Empire of Man' is stupid. We don't have a collective name for the in universe 'Germans' that formed the Empire in the first place.

>>96009530
>Why would fighting 1 vs 1 be an unfavourable term when he was going to fight against the whole unit anyway?

Then why doesn't he engage in it if it isn't unfavourable?

>>96012360
Imperials. Before the formation of the empire, they didn't really have any collective name, similar to how "germanics" only became a collective when the romans identified them that way

>>96009837
Yes the game is much more interesrtng when every unit could have a normal that can try to be a hero

>>96012331
>Tilea (italy)
I have to stop you there. in the case of Italy you may find its equivalent in Marienburg & the Westerland, and how the Empire gradually lost control over it, until they seceded .

>>96012360
>There is a broadly shared pantheon between the 'European' humans (including Taal, Rhya, Shaalya, Manaan, etc) but afaik there's no organised church for it in the same way that medieval Catholcs or even pagan Rome had
Doesn't really need to be, it can be the holy sigmarite empire, or the empire of holy sigmar, simply because sigmar founded it.

>>96012365
The Romans identified a broad group with common language and religion. Calling them Imperials is a post-hoc rationalisation and isn't useful. The Holy Roman Empire, multicultural as it was, still often styled itself 'of the German Nation' for most of its existence. Is Karl Franz the Emperor of the Empire of the Imperial nation? Actually I kind of like that

>>96011433
>>Model has to have good stats because it cost a ton of money (a mental fallacy endemic to GW and its customers)

Lol this completely untrue, the price of the model very rarely lines up with it being good in the game

>>96011696
It can blend infatry but it's going to struggle against other monsters with only 3 attacks even with them being monster slayer

>>96012379
>the holy sigmarite empire, or the empire of holy sigmar
Doesn't work as well. He's a god, not The God.

>>96012402
Nothing in that title implies he's the only god, only that the empire is his, because he founded it.

>>96012399
>even with them being monster slayer
and D3 wounds, and ws5 s7 -4ap

>>96012383
Depends probably quite a lot on who you ask and their political interests. I'm sure marienburgers do not identify as "imperials" despite sharing much culture due to the implicit political power that gives the emperor over them for instance. A Tilean might casually identify a Marienburger as an Imperial and greatly offend him in so doing, and political reformers might prefer names with other implications like "Ulriclander" or something.

>>96012360
Morr does have an organized pan-old world priesthood but he's the only one and lay-worship of him outside funerals, dooming, and other specific ceremonies is uncommon outside Tilea, so it's not massively powerful outside Tilea.

>>96011751
The cannons themselves are fine, the Ogre loader is ridiculously undercosted

>>96012347
That anon had to be trolling. He had to be, I refuse to believe anyone is actually that stupid.

>>96012200
Any advice?

>>96012331
The Empire used to own parts of Tilea, Brettonia and the Border Princes, but they have been weakened and shrunk down since those expansions

>>96012524
Chimera, steed of shadows, skill full manuvering with your warhounds or cavalry.

wow what a shithole

>>96012548
note, necromancy is not just raising the undead under your command, it's first and foremost communication with the spirits of the dead for information.

>>96012378
Those are meant to be more analogous to the Netherlands

>this is the painting they're showing off on WarCom

>>96012651
The freehanded banner is nice at least
Some of the other images are just boring paintjobs

>>96012651
>white base rims
Revolting

>>96012651
It's like the painter went for a porcelain doll look but it comes across as faded and sun-bleached instead.

>>96012683
It looks like they sprayed it beige then slapped on some contrast

>>96012298
>>96012651
>>96012664
you can tell these retards had like a week to paint these things and send pictures of them, if they wanted to keep getting free shit

>>96012683
>>96012651
Yea this is "was going for ambitious and artistic but lacks the skill and taste to achieve it"

>>96012543
Thanks man

>>96012709
These guys work at GW. I don't think they would be fired if they couldn't hit this deadline

>>96012702
I don't think they used contrast paints I think they just used washes which is why it's so faded

>>96012702
they just slapped some washes and glazes on it
>To first make the models look like paper, I used Wraithbone spray with a diluted Seraphim Sepia wash all over them. After that I used various thinned down shade colours across different materials. The last thing I did was “outline” them, essentially edge highlighting them with a very dark brown to give the illusion that they were drawn. I think the style is pretty unique and it doesn’t take long to paint up whole units.

>>96012683
its inspired by ancient chinese art, i think he nailed it.

>>96012651
Dat huge ass gap in the horses front armour.

>>96012346
>>96012360
Yah I know, its just that in the books, the empire has this sense of prominence THat I would understand for the HRE, but doesnt make quite then sense for the empire which in all honesty is just a regional power. If the Empire WAS the center of the old world, I would get that kind of prominence, but no, most of its import is religated to its borders and it being the first significant line of defence and relitively stable society after the liminal powers of kislev.

IDK I would think it would have a more universalist asperations to it, even if its de facto power was limited to the Empire proper. like when and if the human nations of the old world unites, its around the empire.

>>96012664
It's a transfer, not freehand.

>>96012749
>like when and if the human nations of the old world unites, its around the empire.
That's for granted due to meta reasons.

>>96012753
The one I posted was, but I don't think the other one is, that seems to be a freehand, or the guy made his own stamp to do it.
Pic is another example.

>>96012651
Still better than the average old world paint job

>>96012651
>went for the ethereal chinese painting look
>got the dried toothpaste look instead

>>96005231 (OP)
Cathay battalion boxes, AJ, and Dice are no longer sold out on GW's store:

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/the-old-world/grand-cathay

https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/the-old-world/grand-cathay

Where is it!?

>>96012828
Why are you telling us this? Go shill for GW elsewhere.

>>96012774
I just don't understand how anyone can like these models.

>>96012828
Let's see if they get sold out again soon.

>>96012774
the bases look like white bread with mold

>>96012651
I’ll be honest I like it. They look like an old painting from ancient China. Though that dragon’s head doesn’t look finished, even with the benefit of the doubt.

>>96012934
>They look like an old painting from ancient China.
Anon, please don’t.

>>96012857
>>96012879
Cause this might be another Dominion/Skaventide situation where initial pre-orders were sold out and then restocked when the pre-orders where shipped. GW might be stock in a situation where they overproduced them.

>>96012651
I think they might be trying to replicate this. Still, need more contrast though.

>>96012963
And this is my problem... how, exactly? Take it to another thread, dipshit.

>>96013013
Nta but hopefully it means free Cathay boxes at adpticon next year.

>>96013032
>>96013032
>>96013032

>>96012774
These literally just look significantly unfinished

>>96010527

When you say "Recasts" do you mean metal/resin characters, or recasts of plastic regiment sprues? If the latter; where does one typically look for these things? Does anyone actually recast into Plastic or do they just cast full sprues in Resin?

I'd like a few things, but if I could cheaply get some of the Monopose plastic Bret Longbowmen that would be neat. I have about 20-25 of them I'm painting up presently. Despite the mono (Duo I guess) pose nature I really prefer the look of them to the 6th edition plastics.

>>96010527
no one but gw employees and the gayest faggots ever cares about the providence of your models