Thread 96092840

I say thee Neigh edition

Previous Heresy:>>96087035

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3
https://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://imgur.com/a/8EaFmTM
And more you should probably backtrack the last two or so threads. Seriously, check the thread before you ask for every little thing.

>New Edition upon us
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>New to The Horus Heresy? Don't be
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

Thread question:
What would it take for you to accept 3.0?

>>96092840 (OP)
>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?
If it was literally just 2.0 with some points tweaks and some minor reworks for special rules (brutal etc.).

>>96092830
Oh, alright, that does sound useful then.

>>96092840 (OP)
>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?
Change charges back, change challenges back, change deep strike back (at least make it fucking usable), re-add all the options, actually fucking use Attacks Modifier, insist upon tactical statuses less, red add two-weapon fighting, change the WS chart, change force org back (to 1.0), change missions and scoring back (at least most of the way), change the formatting back, dear god, make wargear wargear again... it'd be a start.

>>96092840 (OP)
>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?
A formal post from Games Workshop admitting they fucked up and fumbled it, and then as a gesture of goodwill free PDF releases of updated Liber's once they've spent a few months fixing them and adding options back.

7 hours after the last post about 5 people cancelling their preorders, still zero copies sold. Total for the day Minus-4.

Saturnine is fucking DEAD.

>>96092866
It is, especially since statuses last until they're cleared. They don't go away automatically.

And routing is the worst of all of them. If you can panic a HSS in your shooting phase, you'll prevent them from reacting to anything else making them easy targets for a charge or to keep them from popping return fire on your own units shooting them

>>96092888
reddit repost

>>96092840 (OP)
>TQ
Nothing. I even started buying old books. Hopefully 2.0 Libers will be on discount once new ones come on sale.

>>96092840 (OP)
The issue with 3.0 isn't the balance.
Every edition has its balance issues, fixing old shit and creating new problems.

The issue isn't even specifically certain shitty rules (and removal of options), which can be houseruled like people have done for 2.0.

The problem is there are shitty rules, loss of options, and 30k now looks like its locked into the 3 year paypig cycle.

Even with houserules making it better than 2.0, its just gonna be a new set of bullshit in 3 years.

Where as if I stay with 2.0 or even 1.0 and houserule to fix issues, its already not the current edition of rules, so I don't have to care about future rules churn.

>>96092888
Sorry people aren't buying it from your literal who website.
Normies are going to slurp it up.

>>96092840 (OP)
>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?
The legacy pdfs having bike characters at launch

What do we think a list of problems inherent to 2.0 could have been fixed without the disaster for 3.0?

>>96092904
Mostly this. But I'm also never purchasing any wargame which is 4 turns long. Hard dealbreaker no matter what.

>>96092920
Leave pretty much all the units and legion rules alone while adding the new statuses + related rules onto weapons and units as appropriate.

Massage existing rules to work with the new challenge phase, tune up reactions and fix interceptor spam.

Really, I think that if the unit roster hadn't been gutted the way it has in the libers, the game would have some grumbling but otherwise be afloat. If the legacy pdfs are really comprehensive, then they may be able to pull out of the nose dive, but that's a big if.

>>96092906
You posted a literal-who website which only had 3 boxes, nobody gives a fuck if they managed to sell 3 boxes. Saturnine is the biggest flop in GW history now, literally negative sales.

>>96092941
>Saturnine is the biggest flop in GW history now
you know we've been here for all of aos right

Post models.

>>96092941
Yes, the unknown website 'ebay' which shows over 300 sold from 2 sellers.

>>96092957
All of ebay is 300 total? Give it another month that'll be 2 copies per country on the planet, Great Success!

>>96092941
>HEY. This thing that I don't like?
>It is LITERALLY the worst thing EVER.
>That thing I was mad about last week? No that's nothing. When I said it was the worst thing ever, it was just bantz.
>THIS, though? THIS is the WORST. Until the next thing I get mildly upset about becomes THE WORST THING EVER because I'm mad and I've lost all touch with reality so I just assume everyone on the planet must be as angry as ME about THIS thing.

>>96092965
Betrayal at Calth, Burning of Prospero and Age of Darkness never sold out btw

>>96092956
>>96092961
STOP THAT RIGHT NOW AND DOOMPOST ABOUT HOW HH 3.0 IS A FLOP OR YOU'RE A HECKIN SHILL

>>96092967
this

>>96092906
>Ebay
>the website that allows scalpers to pretend to buy their own product, never pay anything and then pretend it's 300 sold so you'll try to buy a scalped copy from them
Nice troll.

>>96092956
Fellow son of Olympia, do you plan to bring all 3 of those Vindicators into 3.0?

>>96092965
Do you have problems reading? That is 2 sellers.

>>96092981
>PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE TAKE MY BAIT
Yeah, the one nobody discount games site that splits pre-orders between their HH section and their pre-order section is totally the one data point that we should all believe religiously

>TQ

I dunno, if I want to play in the setting with no wargear options I can just play Legions Imperialis.

Also taaaanks

>>96092956
This is a part of my collection that I used in a 4k game.

>>96092985
>do you plan to bring all 3 of those Vindicators
Yes and always
>into 3.0
Really depends on what my local is playing. Can't really play 2.0 if everyone is playing 3.0 and can't play 3.0 if everyone is playing 2.0. The only thing I really care about is getting a 3rd land raider and some mk2 guys since I want my army to be as cross compatible with 40k as possible.

>>96092956
posted last thread but think I'm sticking with word bearers + colchisans

Saw a post on reddit from someone who got his hands on the MK2 marines already.
He said they do not have vambraces on the sprue like the MK3 ones do for the weapon upgrades.
That is a bit concerning as the arms will look noticeably difference.

Long shot, but anyone know where I can get left handed combi-bolters without 3d printing? I want to use the old deathwing maces as the thunder hammers for my cataphractii command squad, but they're all right handed

>>96092840 (OP)
If it wasn't for wargear changes making units boring, useless or non-existent, I'd actually be pretty much fine with everything. The new edition rules, as autistically precise as they've been written, are workable. As shoehorned the status effects are they encourage using different sorts of equipment. Artificer tanking is gone though the ramifications of eliminating so much AP2 is gonna be felt. List building might be weird but prime slot benefits are actually pretty neat.
But actually making models is fucking boring now and so much of my army is gone why would I bother anymore?

>>96093030
>That is a bit concerning as the arms will look noticeably difference.
So... the arms that aren't the same design as any existing armour might not look like any existing armour?
I'm shocked.

>>96093058
>are workable.

>>96092941
Illiterate niggas

>>96093080
Not an argument

>>96093080
Workable. Maybe not OSHA compliant but still workable.

>>96092909
From what I’ve heard from the few snippets of legacy leaks floating around in the warp, everything’s returning that’s not absurd like large vehicles that need lots of kitbashing

>>96093091
All the issues have been posted ad nauseum round here and I've seen next to no cohesive arguments with them. If they got no real discussion then, I don't expect any now.

>recently had a meme event where we brought the dick-kickiest army we could, ignoring force org
>what I came up with was:
>10 plasma myrms with an archmagos and magos malagra to give preferred enemy and monster hunter
>4 assorted thanatars with a few tech priest wranglers
>raven guard primus medicae with infravisor to give the myrms a FNP and nightvision
>night lord delegatus for terror assault
>2 preysight+helical lascannon boxnoughts
>rest of the points with thallax
>opponents had to score our army from 1-10 based on how unfun it was to fight against
>tfw got an almost perfect 10 average

>>96093119
The only people that have seen legacies doc is GW corporate employees, and they aren't going to be leaking things.

>>96093177
They do just not loudly and it’s certainly not large leaks

>>96092840 (OP)
>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?

Not a single gw miniature in my group.

So, is it true that you can take a Warlord detachment without tax, besides playing at 3000 pts? I'm not bringing a Primarch.
Bringing a Retinue + Land Raider without needing a Consul + Logistical sounds pretty neat.

>>96093191
>BRO just buy a $5000 printer it's so cheap!
>also btw your printed minis will start shattering after 3 years but who cares!

>>96093142
You had three factions? It does sound bad though
>>raven guard primus medicae with infravisor to give the myrms a FNP and nightvision
Can one do that in 3.0? Attach a character to a unit from a different faction

>>96093209
both are untrue and cope.

>>96093201
Yes yes that is obviously possible you don't need to post it six times a thread

I've been lurking in the threads for a while now, (mostly to see people's minis) but I've also gotten interested in starting an army myself. I know my local has a discounted copy of HH second edition, would that be a good place to start?

>>96093233
>new edition just came out
>should I buy last edition's rulebook
no
wahapedia has the entire 2nd edition ruleset

>>96093238
Should've specified that I'm talking about the starter set, not the rulebook by itself.

>>96093238
Anon they don't even have siege of cthonia fully in what the fuck are you taking about

>>96093246
oh yeah, that's a good starter set at a discount
>>96093247
they don't? I thought they added it ages ago

Building 20 Heavy Support Marines isn’t about being meta or being fluffy, it’s about sending a message. Everything burns.

What's the Prime you see yourself using the most?

>>96093191
based

>>96093233
Depends on if there's a 2.0 community around you

>>96092956
Nice army Iron chad

>>96093246
yeah the box is a great deal

>>96093191
At least repost the fullsize image

>>96093013
Hello see this post >>96093280

>>96092840 (OP)
Where are people getting their MK.IIs early from?

Also WHERE ARE MY SOLAR LEAKS?!

>>96092956
isnt this a 40k army

>>96092906
Show sold out for popular websites, not eBay. Scalpers inflate those numbers, it's probably a quarter of that. I think warpfire and another popular site sold out.

>>96093291
>WHERE ARE MY SOLAR LEAKS?!
in the toilet

>>96093265
none i will play 2.0

>>96093287
Are we just admit this is a reddit invasion already

>>96093291
Google MKII DMS, and MKII LoggyK.

>>96093302
warpfire only ever gets 5. I think skaventide was the only exception for that though.

>>96093265
Logistical Benefit

I don't have many HQ choices, I don't want to take many HQ choices. And it very helpfully cuts out the book keeping of which units in my army have different stats than the identical unit next to it.

>>96093265
Combat vets. +2 to WP for TS is just gravy.

>>96093292
It's an age of sigmar army.

>>96093321
based. Cant wait to see you play them as khadrons or chorfs.

>>96093321
Shut up, frogposting faggot.

>>96093321
I thought avatarfagging wasn't allowed

>>96093233
Its good value for the miniatures, so yes.
Also there is a not small chance you may end up playing 2.0 at some point anyway, so the rulebook isn't bad to have.

>>96093353
>one frog is avatarfagging

>Calibanite Warblades finally look like a good weapon
>Strictly Superior to Power Axes
>Terranic Greatsword is still better
>Master Sergeant Prime lets Sergeants take Terranic Greatswords
>Costs as much as a Power Fist/Thunder Hammer
>So do Terranic Greatswords
>Apothecaries can't take them anymore
RiP Warblades, a decent statline with no niche.

>>96093265
Unnatural resilience, for Eternal Warrior 2. Rather, I don't know who I'll put it on. Siege Breaker, I guess

>>96093422
Ehh apothecaries look weird this edition. They’re don’t really look worth taking no matter what unless you’re particularly worried about a unit failing status checks

>>96093422
>>Master Sergeant Prime lets Sergeants take Terranic Greatswords
You can only have one Master Sergeant >>96093265 says it may only be taken once per detachment

>>96093265
>>96093445
NOOOOOOOOOOO THE STORMWING LIST

>>96093442
Don't they reduce incoming damage by 1 (up to 0) on a 4+ or something? That can just nullify small arms

>>96093449
you have to spend a reaction to do that

>>96093445
It's still competing with Fist/Hammer though, and I'm not sure it's worth trading the S, D, and AP for speed. Maybe for a Terminator Sergeant where you actually save a few points by taking it.

>>96093422
>>Calibanite Warblades finally look like a good weapon
>>Strictly Superior to Power Axes
I eye other legions' weapons and I get green with envy. For +10 pts wish I could swap Reaping 2 for Shred 6+ or something idk

>>96093442
They put an extra power fist in a squad. That's good enough for me.

Is it me or did TS get a good glow up?

>>96092956
really nice collection of iron warriors!

this is what i've got in my ultramarines so far (plus a leviathan that i finished after the photo)

>>96092840 (OP)
An actual book, with an actual army list and actual minis to go with it.

>>96093513
TS are pretty great, yeah. Not only are they getting a shit ton of cool combos to work with but Sehkmet are great again with more wargear than they had before on top of FINALLY having rules for kohpesh blades that are actually quite good.
Their prime advantage is an odd choice with flying space marines but that's just good fun.

>>96093536

Let's be real here dude, nobody gives a fuck about Sisters of Silence. They've got female Custodes now, what do you want?

>>96093536
I’m gonna tattoo their forehead with the mark of tzeentch with my ass

Does anyone have the PDFs for the 1.0 books? I only have the first Legions book.

>>96093442
They can't take combi-weapons anymore, so I couldn't take most of mine if I wanted to.

>>96093385
if its the same one every thread then yeah. Anons gotta diversify

>>96093526
Nice army. How did you weather it?

Continuing work on my volkite myrmidons despite them losing rules, weird how that was the impetus to get me focused on painting them again

>>96093668
Such fortitude.

>>96093539
This model is twice as illegal as it was in 2.0

>>96092840 (OP)
>TQ
They mainly just need to errata back wargear options, but I'm not too worried about that anyway because I'll just give my units whatever gear they have anyway and not care about what 3.0 says

>>96093603
>wojak
>atari
>disco
>rotoscope dance
>metal gear rising
I'm trying to think of how I would explain this gif to someone who hasn't been using social media in the past thirty years, and I'm not sure any explanation wouldn't sound like I'm suffering from apophenia or something.

Can someone post what Shieldwall! (yes, with exclamation mark) advanced reaction does?

It's not i the core, so I assume it's from Libers, but I didn't see it in the leaks.

>>96093526
can you take more photos of that venerable dread?

>>96093668
Cool.

>>96093696
>>96093291
Not a fan of shilling, but if you really are that desperate, there's this page https://spruesandbrews.com/2025/07/12/liber-auxilia-review-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-3rd-edition/
I don't know who they are or who you have a grudge against, so if you don't like them, don't clic lol
>>96092840 (OP)
Hey OP, I think you missed the Mechanicum Imgur?
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw

>>96093698
My group took one look at the wargear restrictions and said lol no, any of the consuls can take a termie armor or jump pack for 20 points or a bike or jetbike for 30 points, and all legion units can just copy whatever weapon options their command squad equivalent has with fixed tartaros Terminator melee weapon access. We all actually like the core rules changes we just think GW can go fuck themselves with boxlock and AI written drivel.

>>96093718

Thanks. IF Cataphracts changing combi-bolters for shields to gain 4++ and Heavy trait they already had sounded like lunacy even for 0 points, but with reaction it's more of a sidegrade

>>96093603
thanku! I paint all the chipping by hand, and then mostly use oils and some pigment powders around the feet/tank treads.
>>96093710
here U go :)
his name is ancient garamond, he's a terran veteran

>>96093705
>Hey remember the disco music you used to dance to in your 20s, 50 years ago? Look at this funny pic hahaha!
>Of course I can help you send it to your friends, gramps

>Excited to run aethon and hermes sentinel marching parade
>Just hit me that they're probably gonna still suffer from the same leadership/falling back issues they had in 2.0
man

>>96093539
But unfortunately no Praetor Punchy in 3.0. Not that number of fists matters mechanically.

>>96093513
the biggest strength of Thousand Sons is no non-TS player will ever have a clue what your army can do because nobody else is bothering with the 6 core psychic disciplines plus your half a dozen random TS psychic special rules.

"Fugayzi, fugazi, it's a whazy, it's a woozie, it's fairy dust. It doesn't exist. It's never landed. It is no matter, it is not on the elemental chart. It's not real." - 30k player looking at TS rules

>>96093705
It's a video of guy disco dancing surrounded by a bunch of pop culture references.

>>96093718
On one side, I actually like Shieldwall. It is something a unit with shields would do, but making it a Reaction limits how many you can activate at the same time
On the other hand, it means we are in early stage 8thfication

>>96093770
Divination seems quite solid. Too bad the Emperor banned the use of Psykers at Nikaea.

>>96093720
>Hey OP, I think you missed the Mechanicum Imgur?
Is there one for Space Marines?

>>96093805
>he wasn't in on the liber astartes trading card game action

>>96093800
Sorry sir, another unit on the otherside of the board activated the neurons in their apothecaries brain, so you're gonna have to just stand there slackjawed as you get charged and killed instead of holding your shields up.

>>96093216
That imagine is unironically proposing that you buy a jewelry or dental scanner which do cost multiple thousands of dollars. An interoral scanner would actually be pretty much ideal, but they're like $3000 minimum.

>>96093837
>1 Reaction base
>1 Reaction from playing a 3000 pts game
>1 Reaction from a Praetor
>1 Reaction from a Special Assignment Praetor
>1 Reaction from a Command & Control squad
>1 Reaction from being Ultramarines
I'm going to push the reaction system to its breaking point!

>>96093883
>only 1 reaction per unit per turn
Yeah good luck with that

>>96093758
Unironically just run the hermes in MSU; splitting them up into duos will make them even more of a pain to kill anyway since it means your opponent will have to waste a unit’s whole shooting attack on at most 2 dickheads instead of wiping out 6 or killing 3 and making the other 3 run away.

The aethon situation is a little more problematic; you really just gotta hope they give them a reasonable cool stat so they don’t shit their pants when someone fires a nemesis bolter at them. I’d say to run just one instead of a trio of them but assuming the SA hunter killer missiles are gonna be the same as the marine ones the aethon might actually end up being a really good long ranged gun platform if you give them lascannons + HK’s. The 4 turn time limit means weapons being limited kinda doesn’t matter as much so you may as well shill out for the big guns.

>>96092888
Nathaniel Garro (the leaker) has acquired information about the upcoming betrayal (hh3 rules and libers) and has risked his life (being ratted out to GW by Pardo) to warn the faithful loyalists (fans of 30k) of the Warmaster's (James') plot to destroy the Emperor and Holy Terra (our beloved game system).

>>96093449
On one wound unfortunately. It’s kinda insane how shit it is. I get the other ability tries to balance it out but it doesn’t do it well

>>96093911
Why does everyone assume I'm going to use 3 reactions on the same unit on the same phase? I bet it's the same guy.
No, anon. I am highlighting the fact that everyone outright bitched about the evils of two Return Fires and a single Overwatch per turn, and I would get to do maybe three of each.
Probably 2 of each and some two other reactions, more likely, as the counter to that is to focus a unit to death like it was necrons

>>96093944
The Rules Drop Massacre will go down in wargaming history

>send out a fairly generic email about the box to several of my LGS
>all of them respond within the hour, and all of them use the same wording despite me normally being on first-name basis with several of the stores
I think the pressure is on them now, when they realize they've been dealt bad product.

Btw the statement is, paraphrased: We have received multiple messages about this and are investigating. Anyone who wishes to return their Saturnine box, regardless of opened or not, can do so as long as you have a proof of purchase (receipt).

>>96092956
>>96093013
>>96093526
>>96092961

Great models lads, keep em coming!

>>96094074
GW would have been better off with a 1 week preorder window, 2 weeks is enough that many customers will wake the fuck up and cancel their preorder because GW are cocksuckers and don't deserve to be paid.

>>96094074
>ask about refund policy
>get reply about refund policy

So this is the power of 150 IQ autists

Does the allies chart even exist in 3.0?

>>96093947
This seems like it's on a "per model" basis. Like you could allocate to one model, make the recovery roll, and if damage is reduced, you assign the next hit to a different model, and can thus keep making recovery tests until you run out of models.

>>96093944
>shillguinius knew about the coming death and the end of the game weeks before the normie, but still gave up all of his dignity to puppet for the dictator, even knowing it would destroy his reputation
>the angel of copeshill sauntered up to the Warmaster, who was working to free us from GW's dictatorship by breaking the cycle. Shillguinius darts around in the air as fast as he can, trying to rat the Warmaster out and go on reddits and discords and try to ban everyone "for being negative"
>The Warmaster used his mastery of 5dimensional space (3d printing) to move faster than the laws of physics allow and snatch shillguinius from the sky
>Shillguinius cried out in pain as he struck at the Warmaster "why are you killing my game?"
>A sudden clarity came to the Warmaster's eyes. "For the Ligma"

>>96094074
As someone who has to send emails regularly at work, often to people I know on a first name basis, I can tell you that I have not, nor will I ever, type anything but a generic response.

>>96094142
I don't think so, that's another strike against HH3.0
>Vulkan capable of liking Night Lords skinning civs alive
>Morty being friends with Thousand Sons wizards
>Lorgar having any friends at all
Immersion destroyed.

Ignoring all the missing options, after watching more batreps I'm liking 3.0 less and less. Sucks bc I like some of the new rules like fliers, but I honestly prefer 2.0. Now I gotta work a community update for 2.0 that my friends will actually wanna play. Ughhhhh

>>96094142

Allies are not core rules. Please wait for Tactical Journal #15: Back to Beta-Garmon where beta rules will be available for the low cost of £14.99 plus tip.

>>96092840 (OP)
Hi fellas, I'm a bit behind on the leaks, what's this about a new consul type?

How are we feeling about drop pods? Is steel rain still possible without row?

>>96094291
>1 deepstrike a turn max
you tell me

>>96094291
I have not seen a single leak that would suggest you can deep strike more than one thing a turn still

>>96094294
>>96094295
This edition is now unplayable.

>>96094297
Hasn't Doom committed genocides?

Also please elaborate on how this edition is unplayable.

>>96094306
My army is drop pod assault, this is my 911, hence the meme.

>>96093526
>leave 40k for HH
>play fucking ultramarines
Why do people do this?

>>96094074
This post has lying fag written all over it

> that multiple LGSes would respond to a nitwit who doesn't actually have a preorder and is Just Asking Questions
> that you would risk your reputation at places who "know you by name"
> that knowing someone's first name means you can identify them by firstname+lastname in an email
> that you didn't post the boilerplate reply you got (too lazy to go as far as writing one for your larp)

>>96094338
Ultramarines in 30k are way cooler.
>>96093526
How did you make the rocky based of your characters? They look baller.

>>96092956
Finished these dudes yesterday.

>>96092956
I want to finish this thing soon

>>96094338
40K is no longer a wargame. A person who enjoys playing wargames would enjoy HH more than 40K no matter what army they use or what colour it's painted.

>>96094375
Drill your barrels big dog

>>96094338
They look really good in 30k, especially the way he painted them. The designers did a really good job at mixing the roman elements with retro sci-fi. I'd ask your question about Blood Angels though, neither the 30k nor the 40k version works for me anymore. I think they look best in mk7 with an oldhammer paintjob and death company support.

>>96094132
Agreed. My impression is that this is what's happening.
>>96094135
I didn't ask them about the refund policy, they responded with it. Normally they don't allow returns of opened boxes.
>>96094168
I've known several of the people I contacted for over fifteen years, and their tone in emails is usually quite different. It would seem that they're sticking to a script on this one.

>>96092840 (OP)
>TQ
Ive already accepted it

I play SoH

>>96094408

I work at an LGS and there hasn't really been any refunds. I canceled my preorder, but I haven't paid for anything yet.

>>96094408
pure fagitprop

>>96094387
HH3 certainly isn't a wargame, circles on the ground, fake 'good boy points' and 4 turn matches. It's faker than pro wrestling.

>>96092956
Some of my boys

>tfw I need to convert like 1/3 of them

>>96094439
Cool, but nobody in this thread has ever played HH3, including the guy who posted his Ultramarines

Remember: thirdies are always trying to muddy the waters and shillpost whenever they find the opportunity. Anyone making glib remarks about the wargaming community as a whole is not one of us, and never will be. These are the kinds of leeches who will suck up to any entity they see as greater than them, which is why we have such an infestation of "influencers" who try to astroturf and copepost about the new edition. Fuck Pardo, and anyone else who swallows this slop with a smile on their face.

>>96094448
Extremely gay looking kid's toy models. Why would you buy those, or truck with a game system that includes them?

Just your bad taste, from a life of experiencing nothing?

>>96094448
So, how many saturnine boxes have you ordered..? :D

>>96094464
Two.

>>96094448
it's truly amazing how shit heavy bolters look without the ammo belt mechanism. The second they switched to gay soda-cans or happymeal boxes underneath heavy bolters I never equipped one again.

>>96094448
What's with the one of the left? Discontinued Moritat variant?

>>96094464
the numbers on 3rd party websites are actually increasing. More people have gotten a refund than bought saturnine in the last week here. GW is gonna have to fire you.

>>96094471
An old metal Devastator was what got me into this game back in the nineties. Peak Warhammer.

>>96094488
You made me remember assembling those metal Devs and I had a 'lil panic attack

>>96094488
I love good art so damn much. I was deeply concerned when I heard that Karl Kopinski fell ill, but he seems to be doing better. Call it parasocial, but the loss of an artist is always a tragedy in my opinion.

>>96094448
>bolter with supressor/silencer

This is gay tacticool shit from 40k, get out of here

>>96094508
Gay tacticool shit is explicitly 30k-only. The eliminator sniper squad in 40k primarily just shoots renamed Lascannons and are basically just another devastator squad. 30k is the one with tacticool-wannabe recon squads, tactical-wannable headhunter squads, and tacticool-wannabe scout squads and tacticool-wannabe seeker squads and tactical-wannabe mor gaythanu. Half the shit in-game has access to nemesis bolters despite them being utterly irrelevant in the lore.

>>96094408
The box isn't even released yet so how would you have an opened one?

>>96094532
boxes are mailed to stores way before 'launch day', stores just sell them weeks ahead of time, if GW finds out they get pissy.
Sorry you're not friends with any store owners.

If somebody have PICTURES with Master of the Legion, Firestorm, Void Shields, Shock please post them or direct me where can i find them. Please.

>>96094538

Post pix of open box

>>96094479
Numbers increasing on some rando shop you probably made up yourself.

Can you get data from all the thousands of shops around the world please, then we'll talk.

>>96094527
Supressor/Silencer on Recon/Sniper unit

VS

Supressor/Silencer on a dishonoured gunslinger with a death wish

yeah
nah
that gear on moritat is gay

holy shit I'm getting 40 marines and the centurion for free with £40 extra profit after selling the singles.

>>96094488
>>96094506
Kopinski was the one that did the science-fantasy grimdark artwork as one of the best, shell casings for heavy bolters that are believeable, cool little details all over the place, creating characters who look hard as fuck with perfect expressions.

>>96093177
Anon all leaks come from GW

>>96094571
>he doesn't know
Get back to us how it went, friend.

>>96094532
I assume he meant "even if it has been opened", as in after release.

>>96094571
you should buy more boxes then, anon
it's like an infinite mk2 glitch, right?

>>96094591
Hah, not falling for your middle-eastern tricks that easily.

>>96093317
That's pretty goodnon normal librarians too honeslty
Don't think it was intentional

How about stacking? IF gambit says it gives Eternal Warrior (1). Would that stack with Sigismunt EW(1) rule? Probably not, trying to find a reference in the rules about stacking and I can't

>>96094448
The fact they never released the bolt pistol moritat is such a god damn tragedy.

>>96094557
also Rapid Tracking we don't have a picture of that rule as well

>>96094607
Rules usually specify what happens if the model already has them

>>96094557
Shock is in the imgur I'm pretty sure. It applies the status in brakets to vehicles automatically
Firestorm lets you do vollyfire at full ballistic skill and, if you are charging, not go through with rolling to charge after doing them without suffering the status effect. Don't have it at hand tho

>>96094571
Woah infinite money glitch!

>>96094591
I feel like two boxes is bordering on support for the edition, I'm just happy if my £150 gets me 40 marines, a centurion, four rhinos, a fellblade and a contemptor.

>>96094557
MotL is +1 reaction allotment

Cathay weapons for White Scars, what do you think?

>>96094641
thank you, I just want to get pics to, you know, make anOP a bit better.

>>96094646
thank you, i just need pics.

>>96094648
Could definitely work. Might want to model on the power cable with greenstuff but definitely viable and cool looking.

>>96094648
I think putting sci fi rebreathers and rifles on those infantry will make some kino Chogorian solar aux, but it's too expensive for me to properly entertain the idea as a project

>>96094648
That gives me an idea...

What do you guys think a good thematic command slot choice would be for a Rangdan xenocides themed alpha legion army? I'm leaning towards either a moritat to go with my volkite angels tears or a siege breaker and some rapiers

>>96094648
just be careful, lotta WS guys go too hard on the weeb, those bits are sick but if you put too many dragons on stuff it'll become too chinese

Back from a two week trip. I heard we hating on the new rules, can anyone sum up what went down for me?

>>96094557
I don't know how to post pictures, I'm trying
Firestorm

>>96094712
I was there... when james goyslop killed the Horus Heresy...

If I give in to my hobby goblin and made an allied detachment of solar aux for my space wolves, how should I fenris them?

I have loads of wolf tails from over the years of collecting (no i won't add them as butt plugs) but that's not much to go on. And a few knives in the leather will be okay too.

How do i make it more interesting?

>>96094641
>Shock is in the imgur I'm pretty sure.
thanks, found it in the mechanicum album

>>96094687
Do you think the shields are too much for tank/jetbike decorations?

>>96094557
Shock

>>96094714
Thank you very much anon!

>>96094557
Void Shields

>>96094722
yeah i'm taking that picture instead its way better! thank you!

>>96094728
thanks man thats great!

>>96094687
>but if you put too many dragons on stuff it'll become too chinese
Why? I know they're way more into dragons, but Mongolians have dragons in their mythology and culture as well.

"In Mongolian myths, dragons symbolize the water element, the thunder, the wilderness, the power of the earth and the underworld. For example, if it thunders, myths are the gnashing of the dragon. Lightning strikes when a dragon rises from the sky and spits fire.

According to Mongolian belief, the lunar eclipse is also said to arise when a dragon eats the moon."

Anybody knows if Slow and Purposeful gives any bonus or penalty for that matter? Haven't seen that in any leaks. HYYG

>>96094718
greenstuff random animal pelts on sergeants and officers
freehand runes on the larger flat-ish surfaces
replace veletarii axe heads with fenrisian axes from the grey slayers kit
glue the shields to your russes' hulls

>>96092840 (OP)
>TQ
Nothing.
GW has shown their hand, and I'm not touching this edition, no matter how many pdf and journal "fixes" the staple on.

Damn, you just posted what I asked, TY

Does anyone know what Armour-breaker does? I havent seen the Mech Special rule pages leak yet?

>>96094752
on a successful Armor pen roll of x+, the attack inflicts an additional point of damage iirc

>>96094752
we have mechanicum USRs but not the first page. https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw

Without going third-party, which miniatures are the most suitable for representing Alpha Legion Operatives/Saboteurs?

>>96094774
Grand Cathay

>>96094759
>>>
> Anonymous 07/15/25(Tue)11:09:07 No.96094725▶
>>>96094714
>Thank you very much anon!

>>96094722
>smack a tank with a corpuscant stave
>inflict 3 status effects
lol
>captcha HHV20
>HH V2.0
ITS A SIGN

>>96094768
Amazing, thankyou.

I can't find the generic legion units in the links, can anyone point me in the right direction? I may just be retarded

What does master of the legion guys ?

>>96093265
Spamming combat Veterans for my troop prime slots because the status effects are clearly balanced around marine stats so If I don't my rifle sections won't do a thing all game.

Ultima cohorts get to double up on infantry tericos and each infantry terico has 1 prime slot. I'll take that and leave the non-prime troops unfilled.

>>96094811
+1 reaction allotment

can anon(s) post that whole thing about goonhammer being shitty, shills and mods of the heresy discord?

>>96093445
Stormwing aux detachments have prime slots, every stormwing aux you take can have a master sargent.

>>96094830
Stackable if we bring multiple praetors ?!

>>96094846
Yes but you can only bring 1 normally. You'd need to take the special assignment prime benefit to bring another, see >>96093265
And that's costing you the prime advantage on command option and having no extra detachment from that slot

>>96094830
>More reaction shit
The more I see of this edition, the worse it gets.

>>96094846
>>96094858
You can bring any number of allied detachments as long as they are less than 50% of your points
You can bring 10 praetors from 10 different legions to form a power ranger unit that gives you a shit ton of reactions

>>96094862
We start with 1 less than last edition and warlord traits don't exist anymore so it's less than before

>>96094838
Yeah so it's not 1 per squad unfortunately

>>96094538
Lets see the 'emails' lil bro

>>96094687
White Scars are so Chinese they had to get a Chinese guy for the audiobook

>>96094878
Does he have a thick Chinese accent?

>>96094878
That was Nick Mullen

>>96093930
>15 S9 shots turn 1.
>3 S9 shots a turn afterwards
Like 60% of the units potential damage is unloaded in the first turn, lol.

>>96094867
Honestly I don't need that much, I just want to throw orbital bombardment with the conqueror.

>>96094885
When doing dialog yes

>>96094632
>Rapid Tracking
doesn anyone know what it does in 3.0?

>>96094885
Anon is alluding to Shogo Miyakita, who is British-Japanese. He puts on an Engrish accent when reading White Scars dialogue. And for Katsuhiro. In any case he's good.

Who's Pardo?

>>96094983
>Who's Pardo?

>>96094983

Pardo the problem
He's a content creator who had foreknowledge of the incoming shitheap and said nothing

>>96094996
>Pardo the problem

>>96094893
Aethon sentinels have 4 hunter killer missiles though. I know we’re doomering about 3.0 or whatever but I doubt that they’d shorten them down to just counting as a single missile.

>>96094996
Even tried to shut down the leaks warning us of this clusterfuck of an edition.

How do meet up with /hhg/ to play Heresy with "winner tops" houserules?

Are any 40K IG miniatures off limits for HH?

>>96095032
>>96091238

>>96095034
There's so fucking many third party options for Militia troops, why would you ever buy that kit from GW?

>>96095032
I had an aneurysm trying to understand what you wrote, what is winner tops?

>>96095042
Who said anything about Militia?

>>96095034
This man lacks panache. We should send him into the penis explosion chamber immediately.

>>96094893
>>96095026
Never mind I just got what you were saying sorry I’m retarded, firing off all the missiles at once right. I mean hell it’d make a dent. From 48” away too for both weapons it’s actually an ideal rangeband, plus it means potentially staying out of range of annoying status causing weapons that could scare the walkers. It’s not like they’d be able to live until turn 4 so they may as well make a big splash

>>96095034
Anything that is not Vostroyan is unacceptable

>>96095026
I know that Aethons have four hunter killers, I have an aethon myself tho I gave it the flamethrower and frag missiles.

Is there any reason you can't just shoot all 4 turn 1 in 3.0?

4 hunter killers + 1 lascannon = 5 shots turn 1, a 3 man squad firing all its missiles drops 15 S9 shots into armour turn 1 then your down to just the lascannons the other turns.

That said tho thinking on it 3 aethons in one squad with this loadout is probably overkill. You'd be better off deploying them in pairs.

Feel free to tell me to find it myself but could someone please show me the new herald data sheet

>>96095034
Yes.

>>96095034
Nobody really cares about anachronistic lasgun marks or special weapons for Imperial Militia, vehicles are a big deal though. The most glaring problem on the Cadians is the imperialis. Scrape that off and they'll be fine.

>>96095061
>vostroyan.
>the guys who canonically refused to participate in the heresy.
>not unacceptable.

>>96095064
>Is there any reason you can't just shoot all 4 turn 1 in 3.0?
Nah you can I was just a retard and totally misinterpreted what you were saying. Rules as written walkers can fire all weapons they have, and each hunter killer missiles counts as it’s own weapon so it’s technically possible unless they make the aethon have a unique weapon variant of it or something.
>That said tho thinking on it 3 aethons in one squad with this loadout is probably overkill. You'd be better off deploying them in pairs.
You think? They’re likely to be BS3. 10 shots is nice and all, but I wouldn’t even trust a lascannon HSS to be able to take down an armoured unit in one volley this edition. Pairs probably would make them less interesting targets but I feel they’d be better suited for marine or elite hunting then

>>96095075
Every HH depiction of the imperial army had vostroyan asthetics before. That was just standard equipment at the time

>>96095034
I'm not playing against that.

>>96095049
He's a threadshitting nigger from the catalog trying to get (you)s by calling us trannies and gays.
(you)s are the only thing that gives his life meaning, don't give them to him and hopefully he kills himself.

>>96095075
They still wear Imperial Army uniforms 10'000 years later for that exact reason, in my headcanon at least.

>>96095080
nta but having more smaller units doesn't stop you from shooting at the same target. It just stops that target returning fire to all of your shooters or using smokescreen on all your shots
If you have the slots it's the better option unless bigger units are significantly cheaper

>>96094441
>>96093526
How illegal are these armies?

>>96093732
Simply beautiful.

>>96095100
I can’t imagine they’ll be that much cheaper so you have a point. I keep forgetting just how many slots are technically achievable with the new system. I plan on running Solar Aux as allies and even then I can technically squeeze in so much crap even without optimising detachment organisations it’s nuts. I know this was always sorta possible cause of tercio’s but god damn

>>96095080
You hit with 1 lascannon and 4 Hunter killers on average. If you can angle side armour on a Krios or a predator you have decent chances of popping it in one volley, even hitting front armour the missiles will do work.

Does the hunter killer have armourbane? Cos if not you'll probably be glancing whatever you shoot at least once for some conditions even if you don't immediately pop it.

The aethons won't be killing land raiders of course but if they could it would probably be a bad thing.

I have trawled the archived boards for what feels like forever but have come up with nothing. Does anyone have the dreadclaw pod sheet?

>>96095133
>Does the hunter killer have armourbane? Cos if not you'll probably be glancing whatever you shoot at least once for some conditions even if you don't immediately pop it.
we're making assumptions obviously but assuming it's 1-for-1 the same as the marine HK's? Yeah they're packing armourbane. Lascannons also have armourbane so there is a chance they might be able to crack a land raider on some good rolls, but that also goes for a lot of things. I don't really run the numbers with this type of thing

>>96095100
msu is better but in the case of smokescreen, it last for the entire phase so it doesn't matter how many units are shooting at the vehicle

Found the herald
How fucking easy would it have been to just give it Vanguard 1
Instead they give it this extra convoluted rule that does the same thing except in extremely specific circumstances and you have to do additional book keeping

>>96094774
Genestealer Cults or Necromunda Scum, but give some of them weirdly high-tech weapons that have been intentionally made to look damaged or in disrepair.
Imagine this: a few shadowy figures running around, too small to be Astartes, but firing melta or plasma weapons from the darkness.

>>96095147
Are there mechanical differences between missiles and guided missiles? I remember in hh1 that some flyers had chaff launchers which gave them an invul save against missile attacks, is there something similar in hh3, too?

>>96095147
HKs look way too good to let you use more than 1 of them but they let Sabers shoot all 4 so...

>>96095132
https://spruesandbrews.com/2025/07/12/liber-auxilia-review-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-3rd-edition/

This dude talks about Sol Aux datasheets a bit, one of the things he mentions is that the Aethon is 60ppm now but use dread rules now instead of cavalry rules. You can still squad them up tho lol.

The Hermes is 16 ppm, the Hermes Incursus is 20 ppm. There's a new "recon Terico" you can take if you bring a command squad on sentinels which gives you 2 Hermes squads and a squad of Aethons.

You can also take a single Hermes squad in infantry tericos now too in addition to transports and the Rifle sections themselves. Its way easier to fit sentinels in a list now. You can even claim objectives with sentinels in a Recon cohort which is cool.

He's the only one who is hyped for 3.0 and he doesn't even have a contract with GW

can you charge out of a rhino?

Seeing as I'm sticking with 2.0 I've decided to start doing some homebrew exemplary battles.

Anyone willing to give this a read over?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WZD2ePSdHX_nNeBrW5AGJatRIsQSXZlw/view?usp=drivesdk

Idea was to have a 30k razorback as the original lore for the razorback had it being rediscovered post heresy so I like to think there was a few knocking around on the edges of the galaxy before getting forgotten

>>96095180
Neat artwork, even if it doesn't make any sense.

>>96095178
A fun little story

>>96095178
No need for razorbacks, they just introduced bolting a tarantula weapon battery to a rhino, just use that

>>96095069
>The most glaring problem on the Cadians is the imperialis.

I've seen people say this but the new ones just have a winged skull

Okay are melta bombs in the mechanicum book or am I just missing them in the liber?

>>96095188
Well yes

But

These are currently sat on my desk

>>96095198
They should be in exotic melee weapons

>>96095069
I keep hearing that the Imperialis wasn't in use during the Horus Heresy.

And yet: "The Imperialis symbol, a winged skull, dates back to the Horus Heresy when it was used by the Loyalist Space Marine Legions and the Imperial Army troopers in recognition of bravery and loss. Later, it became a badge of honour borne by Loyalist units during the Heresy."

>>96095163
Not sure as of yet honestly
>>96095166
They are still one shot weapons so they aren't super duper broken imo, compared to terminators that can teleport behind you and zap you with a twin disintegrator gun all game
>>96095167
Yeah I've read the article already, it's part of whats got me looking into atheons desu. Something did catch my eye though which was the stipulation that "calvary" models got line in the recon cohort doctrine, not just the hermes lights, which could theoritically mean running the better veletaris variants and granting them objective grabbing along with being able to mass use aethons.
>>96095171
Yeah but it's a disordered charge

>>96095201
Good looking models right there
I didn't mean model wise, I meant lore wise
These already look like tarantulas

>>96095180
Does get me thinking why Custodes don't have an equivalence to thunder hammers other than Solarite Gauntlets being close

>>96095212
Space Marine 2 was mediocre at best, but watching Cultists literally explode as you ran through them was pretty satisfying.

>>96095147
>HKs are D3 with armourbane.
Yeah you drop 6 damage into AV13 with the hunter killers alone using a pair of aethons, I've been assuming they were D2 all this time Holy moly.

You might not even need the lascannon at that point. Might be better to go Volkite + 4 HKs, use the missiles to annihilate a tank turn one then spend the rest of the game shooting at space marines.

Crunching the numbers the lascannon does less damage over the course of the entire game than the HK salvo does in 1 turn but assuming costs don't change they're both 20 points. Not sure the price is worth it honestly.

...I wonder what the Melta lance is doing in 3.0, currently it gets melta at 18" because of some bullshit about focusing lenses, will they let the Aux have a better multimelta in current edition?

>>96095212
>compared to terminators that can teleport behind you and zap you with a twin disintegrator gun all game
That combo costs 500+ points for 3 of them and they are likely going to lose 1 of 3 terminators the second they shoot. Not counting the interceptor they are going to eat and the possible return fire

>>96095223
Primaris really do ruin everything, don't they

>>96095226
Using them as a flex platform like that could be good actually; makes them less of a priority threat too so they might be able to inflict more damage just by virtue of other armoured units with heavier firepower existing. Not sure what’s going on with the melta, but if it’s still 18” and the aethons movement hasn’t changed it isnt worth it imo, just too dangerous.

>>96093442
Apothecaries are pretty good for 30pts, 4+ to save a guy is nothing to sniff at. If primus medicae are in the pdf one will go right into my red butchers to combo with their EW(1). Unfortunately, there’s not much point in putting several across all your units because you can only trigger so many Medic! reactions. I guess you could do something like bring the new command squad and play UM to use it twice for free in each shooting phase.

>>96094306
He's just upset that they missed the Baxter Building. Twice.

>most of the people who play HH have consciously chosen to play it as a way to keep playing the more complex rules more similar to their preferred edition(s)
>GW does the shrimple not shrimplified thing they did to their current slop editions of 40k and AoS
>GW is surprised when HH players don't eat up the slop
Is that about right?

>>96095170
If that's the guy that made a channel spin-off for HH it's pretty self explanatory on why.

>>96095212
Does it being a disordered charge even matter anymore?
I saw that the interdiction cadre prime benefit also only let you use a disordered charge even though they are charging in from a fucking prepared ambush, but I never understood the difference between an disordered and regular charge.

>>96095180
Great art, top marks no comments

>>96094921
>in any case he's good
he's shit. his monotone, disinterested delivery sucks the life out of anything he touches.

>>96095277
no, when 40k and AoS shrimplified they cut out multiple checks and steps from the game. HH3.0 has added even more checks and steps. The problem with this edition is that units went missing and lost wargear options from the main rulebook. Are they in the pdf? Are they in the journals? Are they lost to the ether? We don’t know yet.

>>96095247
That's their purpose.

>>96093265
Logistical benefit is obviously the best unless you have your list already filled out, in which case I like paragon of battle or master sergeant.

>>96093429
It has to be a terminator dude I believe.

>>96094570
He doesn't have suppressors to be stealthy. He has suppressors so people know he doesn't give a fuck what the cunts in the Adeptus of Tobacco and Firearms say.

>>96093265
the traitor one to make units malefic honestly seems a bit overpowered unless the unit comes stock with very high Ld and Cl.

>>96095277
Anon if you don't like the new edition that's fine, but at least bitch about something that makes sense
The last thing you can say about 3.0 is that it's simpler than before
Half the complains are about them making everything more complicated than it needed to be

>>96094655
I think it's on the reaction allotment page and not a special rule, since it's not a special rule but a trait.

>>96095271
Check again, there's no more restrictions on apothecaries joining terminators, or any squad
No need for a primus

>>96095331
Pretty sure red butchers have a rule that doesn't let other ICs join them unless they are also crazy

>>96095277
I'd say it's primarily an aesthetic choice, as James and his fiendish workshop have turned space marines into some the most sloppified gen Z fortnite vibes imaginable

Seems to have missed the Terminator Centurion. Anyone got?

>>96093526
Fuck man thats pretty.

>>96095102
Looking at the UM? Everything seems legal (assuming boxnoughts and indomitus termies stay around)]

For the SOH:? Tartaros are currently illegal (assuming they really did lose all their weapons options and its not a fuckup). The champion(?) with terminator armor and two weapons is an illegal loadout.

>>96095277
The rules are workable enough to keep people playing if we ignore everything surrounding them. The models, the armies, the fluff, the way the rules have been written down to avoid WAAC 40kids that jumped here interpreting them in a way that's not intended and so on.

>>96093513
Yes, absolutely. They are now 100% one of the strongest legions in the game.
Even without going any deeper into it the rending(5+) power fundamentally breaks several weapon types (plasma and auto) since theyre balanced around the low breaching chance (that rending always triggers).

>>96095095
Well a lot of the old Imperial Army artwork has them looking like Vostroyans, so I would say they wear some form of Imperial Army uniform.

Do you like the new challenge mechanics?

>>96095316
NTA, but they did simplify some stuff that worked, and complicated other stuff needlessly.
Re-rolls? Get rid of 'em.
An entire re-play of the main three phases in each assault phase? Go for it.
Having a discrete Jump Pack or Terminator Armour Wargear with all it's rules listed clearly that can be added to existing units? Fuck that.
Discrete unit stat lines with different stats and sub-types or outright separate sheets? Fuck yeah!

>>96095335
Ah sucks
Well probably no primus either then

>>96092840 (OP)
If they reprinted the black books in leather without changing a single letter or picture(looking at you, inferno) then I might look at the team more favourably. 3.0 is fucked, there is no accepting it.

>>96093668
>despite them losing rules
They didnt? Myrmidon destructors come with volkites base.

>>96095345
>Looking at the UM? Everything seems legal
Only thing I can spot is that suzerain can't take a banner anymore

>>96095358
No.

>>96095339
Very funny anon

>>96095335
ah, I see that in their unit entry now. But unfortunately I don’t see a way to pay for a character to become crazy like last edition. They might have to fly solo.

>>96094295
It will happen, but it will happen as part of specific mission rules rather than a universal change or option.

>>96095374
Have to wait for your journal tactica for that :^)

>>96095365
The ones in the picts are secutors, destructors are the ones with the big guns.

>>96095379
I’m going to become the ravening madman and join them myself

>>96095362
if reprinted to meet demand, they would sell more copies of the original HH books than any other books available.

>>96094147
You have to keep assigning damage to the same model until it dies per sequence

>>96095389
Agreed.

>>96095152
Are you kidding, this shit is way more fun and actually works with other shit with vanguard

I can’t find phage(X) in the leaks. Does it kick in after the entire unit has finished firing or after the strike group has been resolved? Eg if I have one guy throw a rad grenade and the rest of the unit shoot their normal guns, can I resolve the rad grenade first, lower enemy toughness, and then start blasting with an effective +1 to wound?

>>96095152
This stacks with vanguard and is more interesting. I guarantee if its special rules were just "fear(1), vanguard(1)" you would be complaining.

The current mechanic has you stack VP whenever you win a combat (any combat) and whenever you win a challenge (which ties into the new systems), but you have to protect it so you cant just yolo him at the enemy. Its simple enough (you just have to remember how many points he has following simple event triggers) and is a nice and fluffy way to represent the glory of the banner.

>>96094714
SoH Moritats volley fire a unit without stun checks. That's pretty good, free shooting phases. Could bully scoring. Snap firing bolt pistols back at you is not going to do any real damage.

>>96095426
bless

I doubt anyone here reads WD, but they did a tale of 4 warlords thing for heresy a few months back

could someone maybe dig those up, and see which of those heresy units and armies inside those WDs are illegal?

>>96095190
>>96095208
Don't quote wiki articles at me, the skull represents the Emperors sacrifice and always has.

>>96095374
>>96095335
I mean... they have EW already. Staking another -1D on that for 30p would be bullshit
Also not that useful desu. There isn't that many D3 weapons that you can't just walk out of range from

>>96095434
All moritats do that. As do all bikes.

>>96095472
SoH ones do it at full BS

>>96095456
You don’t want it for the D3, you want it for the D2 because the apothecary can reduce damage to 0. You can only make one roll per model in the reacting unit, but it would let you blank multiple lascannons or disintegrators. Would this be overpowered? I don’t know, but it would be fun.

>>96095477
Anon, read the firestorm rules. They dont snapshot when they volley fire (they fire at full BS)

>>96095447
This would be hilarious to see

>>96095416
And I'm going to throw a character who can just take a power weapon or power fist in a challenge because?

>>96095472
>>96095483
Anon, when I say
>volley fire a unit
I mean the unit he's attached to. Fire is full BS for the Moritat, not the unit.So SoH firing full BS compliments him. A praetorian jun squad with chargers can jump around getting two shooting phases a turn with 2+ armor and M12. Then firestorm allows the unit to cancel the sequence after volley so no stun checks.

>>96095434
>>96095472
>>96095477
Angel’s tears seem like the real winners here. Jump out from behind medium terrain, casually throw out 80 S5 volkite shots. Maybe a little phase(T) to start off the party too if you’re so inclined.

Vanguard(3) lets you not feel bad about dying after they do it because they’ll have earned so many VP. And if they do survive the strike back you can use a master of signals to swap them over to line(1) to score the objective they just cleared.

>>96095506
VP, also because many legions have powerful "power weapon" replacements. The NL headsmans axe for example.
The herald is a reasonable fighter as far as centurions go, and centurions (or even optae) will be commonplace due to the new detachment systems. Then you have master Sgts and the like too.

>>96095521
Like the characters that are better at fighting than a centurion are what? Praetors, special characters, terminator centurions (and that ones a slight one, since cata armor gives -1 for challenges and tartaros is just +1W on him)? If you want him to be better you can even paragon of battle him to have WS6 5A.

>>96095519
Indeed. Once we get normal destroyers back(the only unit that I can realistically guarantee is in Legacies) they will like it.

>>96095373
There's a (generic) Centurion in Terminator Armour - isn't there?

>>96095531
Champions are better fighters than vanilla centurions no?

>>96095544
"yes"

They have better WS (and maybe more attacks? Dont remember) but theyre stuck with a paragon blade which I dont think is very good. Maybe specifically for duelling low wound count models like centurions? But the damage 1 hurts.
But I could be wrong, maybe im really underestimating how lethal a paragon blade can be.

have the new rapier rules been leaked yet or no? want to know if they exist before i spend my time searching old threads.

>>96095507
I love that SoH have gone back to >shoot you in the face point blank instead of whatever nonsense they were supposed to be in second edition.

>>96095557
Yes.

Rapiers are now t6 and ranged attacks are always resolved against them first (wound rolls are always vs t6 and damage goes to the rapiers first).
In melee its the other way round.
40pts naked (with bolters), can upgrade to other weapons still. Max unit size of 4. Phosphex is still locked to siege breaker.

They still seem pretty good, bolters might be incredible cost effective now.

>>96095557
yes they have

>>96095447
I've got the Fate of Barbarus stuff.
Looking over it:
- RG seem fine (But also, were barely customised beyond chain bayonets on the tacticals
- SW: Grey stalkers are gone, so they're illegal, Jorlund hunters we don't know, the tartaros squad has power fists and chainfists, which is illegal, spartan has a flare shield, which ain't a thing.
- DA: Again, not very customised, so looks fine?
- SoH: Esoterist has power weapon and volkite charger, which is illegal, otherwise fine.
- IW: PA Warsmith, which is illegal, Mortificator, which is gone, Forge Lord, which is gone.
- DG: Walking vets with power weapons, which are illegal, rad grenades on the tacs, which I think is gone, Mortus poisoners, which are gone, flare shield on spartan (gone, but no modelled parts, so eh) Apothecary with combi-flamer, which is illegal.

>>96095416
shouldve been the rules for the champion
doesn't make sense to me that in an edition that's all about challenges, the challenge character doesn't have special rules for it
"yeah but he has WS6"
that's not a special rule
every time you see a banner bearer in the lore they're at the back being defended by the rest of their squad, motivating them
right now their leadership bonus is meh at best

>>96095579
Dont champions still have the whole "have to challenge people" thing?

>>96095553
Paragon blades should have been D2
It's retarded that they can't make a weapon unique to the best fighter in a chapter/legion better than basic TH
Hitting first doesn't mean a lot when you do so little damage

>>96095591
>Paragon blades should have been D2
So what, just have it be the best weapon 99% of the time? I guess that works but it feels a bit boring.

>Hitting first doesn't mean a lot when you do so little damage
You can make it d2 with finishing strike, which might be good.

2d6 pick lowest is just -1 or something on average, so you are still favored to go before someone with a fist or hammer, so you go to potentially 6A D2 S+2, which seems decently likely to kill a centurion (or even an AA praetor) before they get to swing.

>>96095569
Can Heavy Bolters do much this ed?

Why did they go out of their way to make plasma cannons shittier than other plasma?
You are unlikely to cover more than 2 models with a small template so they are pretty in line with plasmaguns. For a more expensive weapon that needs to be stationary to get S7 I think +12" shoulnd't require a massive downgrade like getting hit a third of the time you shoot...

>>96095585
yeah but that's not a special rule to make it better at challenges
that's just a rule to force it to fight one
used to be it'd give the unit fearless during a challenge
It's no longer "I want a champion so that he can motivate the squad"
it's "I guess I take a champion if I want a challenge mook"

>>96095618
They dont have heavy bolters, they have a gravis heavy bolter battery. Which is 8 shots S5 Ap4, but more importantly suppressive(2). For 40pts it seems like a good weapon, puts out a lot of dakka (relatively) and has a good chance to force snapshots from the enemy.

>>96095626
>It's no longer "I want a champion so that he can motivate the squad"
That wasnt it either, it was "I want a champion so I can have a WS6 thunderhammer cheaply"
The champions niche is killing centurions, something hes still going to do pretty well.

>>96095619
See, that seems like an actual typo. Fucker either way.

>>96095640
why do i want to kill centurions when centurions don't do anything anymore

>>96095049
Winner tops is a houserule for wargaming wherein the winner is referred to as the "top" and the loser is referred to as the "bottom." Upon concluding the game, the winner and loser shall seek out a private area, preferably the dwelling room of either of them. Upon locking the entrance, the loser shall engage in a humiliation ritual as "punishment" for losing the game, wherein he shall remove his garments and make himself submissive to the winner of the game. The winner shall then lubricate the anus of the loser before inserting his penis into said orifice and initiating homosexual intercourse. Condoms are of course, not allowed, as the nature of the humiliation ritual requires the winner to deposit his seed inside of the loser, or "bottom." If the loser refuses to engage in this ritual after losing a game but having already agreed to "winner tops" rules prior to the start of the game, then he forfeits his honor and may never play a game again.

>>96095664
Centurions never did anything? Youre thinking of consuls.
Centurions are also moderately expensive melee elites, you want to kill them because the alternative is "they do well in melee combat against you".

>>96095557
phosphex looks good this edition, if that influences you at all

>>96095668
a champion would also be doing more damage hitting into the squad
so we're back at the beginning
why do I take the character that is forced to take a challenge when i'd rather have him not fight in a challenge?

>>96095573
>Grey stalkers are gone
I mean Slayers can still take bolters so they're not really gone

>>96095640
You can take a centurion and give it +1WS, BS and A. And still give it a TH. Hell put it on terminator armor for +1T and a 4++ too

>>96095618
Heavy bolter rapiers have always been good

Does anyone have the Slow and Purposeful rule?

>>96095692
Stalkers could take special weapons in the squad

>>96095722
It's ITT, just saw it

P>>96095692
NTA and not a space wolf player but as far as i can tell the main difference in 2.0 was starting with chainswords and that they could take a special weapon or combi weapon per 5 guys

>>96095607
>paragon blades should be the best weapon 99% of the time?
unironically yes. they are legendary relic weapons of unparalleled craftsmanship, etc, etc.

and they should be rare / unavailable for the most part.

>>96095607
>So what, just have it be the best weapon 99% of the time?
Maybe if we remembered there are angles other than Strength and AP that can factor in, we'd have options.
But this is GW. We can't have nice things.

>>96095722
can’t pursue

>>96095666
>satanic trips for gay homebrew trolling
poetry

Hmm

>>96095730
>>96095728
Yeah I suppose you're missing the 2-4 special weapons
But I can still run slayers as stalkers minus that if I wanted so I'm not too bothered

>>96095553
Cents have what, 3 wounds? It's not hard to deplete 3 wounds with a paragon blade if you give your champion paragon of battle and make him WS7. at that point He'll beat anything but a Praetor or a primarch in a challenge hammer or no hammer.

>>96095790
Iconic

Do red butchers beat every other unique terminator unit in a punch up? Breaching(4+) and S5 means they’re effectively AP2 against T5, and EW(1) makes PF TH and any bespoke legion weapons like DA swords 50% less effective.

>>96095801
Centurions are 4W now
WS6 or 7 make no difference against WS5
Centurions can also have Paragon of Battle, which just makes them cheaper champions

>>96095808
EW on terminators is wild, being hit on 3s doesn't matter as much now and attacking first since their axes aren't low I is also fantastic

>>96095808
Butchers flip the damage calculus on its head, every other terminator you want to fight with thunderhammers or powerfists but butchers laugh that shit off. Maybe dreadnoughts would be good against butchers? Damage 3 melee still kills them dead and they have that rule which makes hitting them easy.

>>96095747
>Maybe if we remembered there are angles other than Strength and AP that can factor in
What, like damage? That other angle which has been introduced now to add to weapon granularity.

>>96095840
Centurions are 3w, terminator centurions are 4w

>>96095808
Pretty sure justaerin still crush them. Hitting on 3s and having more attacks will do that.

Can anyone post the Breacher rules? Here’s a meduson immortal as thanks.

>>96095840
>Centurions are 4W now
Thats a weird change.
>WS6 or 7 make no difference against WS5
You take Paragon so even paragon Cents still hit you on 5s.
>Centurions can also have Paragon of Battle, which just makes them cheaper champions
They max out at 6s, Champions get to 7.

>>96092956
Added a bit more since, but TLDR all marines must hang.

>>96094477
>>96094448
Rip bolt pistol Moritat. They could've made Destroyer pistols special, and didn't. At best they'll be in a war Journal DLC. But this is me, coping

>>96095893
Based, transhumans were a fucking mistake.

>>96092408
Can I ask you what paints/Pigments you used for your bases?

>>96095808
The issue is that their actual damage output (chainfist asides) is not very impressive.

3A, 4 on the charge, means 2 hits and then 1 wound (wounding on a 4+) going into a 4++, so for every four red butchers they will kill one terminator (on the charge)
In return something like firedrakes has 3 attacks hitting on 3s (2 hits) wounding on 2s (2 wounds or there abouts) going into a 4++ (for one unsaved hit dealing one wound). So they kill one butcher per two of theirs attacking.

Butchers are tough, they take a lot of killing and will resist a lot of the most common anti terminator weapons (like lascannons). Theyre not good at KILLING terminators. They and deathshroud seem more designed to kill regular troops while shrugging off lascannons/autocannons/heavy plasma (since it takes like 6/7 lascannon shots to kill one)

>>96095808
I'd say lerneans beat them, considering they hit and wound better, rend worse, have the same number of attacks, are harder to charge, and can shoot

>>96095906
>Destroyer
The what now?

>>96094728
So, if a Vanguard kills a unit on an objective, or makes it fall back in melee, you score
If a Vanguard shoots and the unit falls back, they don't score? Booo

Anons, the mech imgur is missing some stuff, anyone got pictures with the
>Arcana benefice and prime benefit for myrmidax, archimandrite, macrotek, and malagra
>the third page of war gear, with shock ram, servo arm, and rad furnace
>second page of scoria's rules
>mechanicum specific special Rules

>>96094867
Allied detachments have no Praetor slot, not Prime to Special Assign one

>>96095999
Seems like Vanguard shooting really needs to drop the last dude to be effective.

Makes Veletarii with chargers a bit less useful than I thought they would be, unless volley fire counts towards combat resolution in melee?

>>96095075
Vostroya dresses like that in 40k because they got given all the Imperial Army leftover uniforms. A trillion units of all the uniforms for the war they skipped.
Their debt will have been repaid when the last one has been blooded by a firstborn

God I love drop pods.

>>96095271
Do Apothecaries do nothing unless you use the reaction?

>>96096013
Allied detachments have 2 HQs, 1 of them in Prime

>>96096057
Their narthecium let's you apply a -2 to status recovery checks at end of turn if you pass a medic roll (a 4+)

>>96096057
They help with status’ which can be useful if your legion doesn’t have a good way to deal with them. The reaction fucking sucks since you’re wasting a reaction on a 1/2 chance to remove 1 wound max lmao

sicaran arcus any good?

>>96092840 (OP)
I know a lot of liber and rulebook stuff is out there, but did the Journal leak at all?

>>96095859
Number of attacks. That thing we made a whole stat for. The one we don't use.
And Damage was the decider previously too. ID or Brutal were king.

>>96096091
it’s max one wound per model, not max one wound total right?

>>96096115
I think the contents page and some background pages are out there

>>96095690
Not even Vanguard. Yeah they should have the Herald rule instead. And/or be like Phalanx Warders, who get to use their reaction for free with some restrictions.
And Paragons should be D2. They are S5, a terminator can tank that half the time.

What would you give Heralds then, to compensate?

>>96096128
Huh, would have thought it would have leaked by now. I don't expect it to fix the game but I do want to know what units it has in it.

>>96096139
It leaked a while ago. We already knew the units too since they showed us the index. They were reported a dozen times across the previous threads.

>>96095801
You shouldn't need to give him Paragon, though

>>96096122
>. The one we don't use.
Except they do. Twin LC give +2A, a chainfist drops you an attack. Forge crafted thunder hammers give you attacks, some weapons set your attacks to a defined value like 1. It is very much a system that is used.

>ID or Brutal were king.
ID is explicitly not "damage", an ID proc does not care how many wounds you have, it does all of them unless youre immune.

>>96096137
Ld10 bubble, line (1), keep it as it was, simple as
But of course ld10 means chaplains are now useless since they removed rerolls and didn't think they should replace them with anything
Idk, maybe you could make the chaplain give the squad deflagrate?

>>96096115
Yes, the master of descent and command squad are from the journal iirc
Whirlwind hyperios too

>>96096115
>>96096128
>>96096139

We've seen Master of Descent. Centurion stats, jump pack, his squad can DS turn 1, he auto-passes DS Reserve checks for you. 120pts? Can't recall.

>>96095808
Deathshroud have EW1 too, but their scythes hold them back

>>96096159
Chaplains grant Cool 10 to their unit, right? That's Cool 11 if said unit is Heavy subtype

>>96096052
You're gonna love dropping only one per turn

>>96096123
Yeah it's one wound on every model in the unit

>>96096158
>Twin LC give +2A
Already had that.
>some weapons set your attacks to a defined value like 1
Already had that too.
>a chainfist drops you an attack.
>Forge crafted thunder hammers give you attacks
These are the only two places in the whole game I've seen it used in a way it wasn't before. In 2.0, that wouldn't be worth a special rule, let alone a whole fucking stat.

>>96096175
Their scythes are about as good as the butcher axes.

>>96096180
only if the whole unit is Heavy
chaplain can take neither terminator armor nor a boarding shield and thus cannot become heavy

>>96096115
We've seen the three units and the mission, IIRC.

>>96095946
>have the same number of attacks
Wild that Butchers lost an attack, as they were 5A on the charge. They should be A3 base

>>96096192
>Already had that too.
Except we didnt have the granularity, we do now. Demon angron and fulgrims slam attacks drop their attacks to a set (non 1) value. Corax makes four attacks with his whip. Pyromancers make d6+3 attacks with their melee power.

>These are the only two places in the whole game I've seen it used in a way it wasn't before
They arent, theyre just examples raised that you clearly didnt know about.

>In 2.0, that wouldn't be worth a special rule, let alone a whole fucking stat.
2.0 had brutal, a special rule present on a grand total of like 3 weapons.

>>96096219
>2.0 had brutal, a special rule present on a grand total of like 3 weapons.
And somehow that required a damage stat to be added in 3rd.

>>96096180
does this make chaplains actually useful for SoH so they can double shoot at close range and have a better chance to pass any stun check if they then don’t make combat

>>96096216
everyone lost the +1A on the charge this edition. they do fine work with 4

>>96096228
Yes. What are you planning to volley fire with, anon? It's only assault guns

>>96096123
Yes but afaik you’d basically go “5 tacticals die from 5 unsaved d1 attacks, I have to use my reaction to roll a d6 per dead model. On a 4+ they don’t die” which leads to some very weird scenarios on higher wound minis

>>96096235
volkite chargers/serpentas, mostly. or anything on terminator squads, the saturnine plasma guns look pretty good when they can double shoot

>>96096223
Yes, and the damage stat is an unambiguously good thing.
Although the real culprits for "we need damage" are dreads and ruinstorm sovereigns/behemoths (and to a lesser extent automata).

The binary system of "one wound or dead" created restrictive weapon design space and meant that models with a non-standard statline were often insanely difficult to kill. Damage removes those issues. It also interacts with hull points in a much better way (or rather, at all) which allows for "single fire big shot guns" to actually be impactful, rather than needing to have multiple shots.

>>96096196
Butcher axes are axes with +1A and +1 to Breach
Scythes are axes with +2A conditional (squad outnumbered). It's fine only when attacking tactical- whoops, the alchem flamer killed enough so that you no longer are outnumbered

>>96096180
Chaplain stats are weird cause reviews have mentioned hatred in their crozius so they may not be as awful on launch

>>96096197
>only if the whole unit is Heavy
Noooo. Shield only needs a majority, tell me Heavy is the same

>>96096235
Assault includes basically all pistols too.

>>96096264
Theyre already not awful desu. Theyre a solid budget beater with high mental stats. Granting hatred would be nice (especially since hatred isnt the game breaker it was before) but theyre already situationally worth it.

>>96096263
Its a better weapon for killing hordes of low tier power armor, which is the ideal target for both deathshroud and red butchers. Despite their durability neither of these units wants a slugging match with elite power fist/thunder hammer enemies.

"but what if you dont outnumber them" then you dont really need the help do you? Youre hitting on 3s killing on 2s into power armor.

Does FNP need to be rolled per damage, or per wound/attack in 3.0?

>>96096234
No, anon. Every terminator *won* an attack this edition. Regular termies did, legion specific termies did. The only ones who didn't are:
>Phoenix termies
Sorta. Remained 2A when even regular termies are 3A, because they are forced to use their blade works rule (not using it at all was better)
>Deathshroud
Sidegrade, as they're now affordable
>Butchers
I guess they do work with 4A? Idk

>>96096219
>2.0 had brutal, a special rule present on a grand total of like 3 weapons.
Well, I'm not the best at maths, but let's check:
Demolisher Cannon
Thunderhawk Cannon
Gravis Power Fists
Thunder Hammers
Leviathan Siege Claws
Graviton Maul
Tainted Claw
Blade of Perdition
Axe of Perdition
Spear of Perdition
Maul of Perdition
Radium Pistol
Radium Carbine
Siege Wrecker
Siege Claw
Iliastus Accelerator Cannon
Iliastus Accelerator Culverin
Vanquisher Battle Cannon
Hellhammer Cannon

That's 19, which is a little bit more than 3. I sure hope no legion-specific units or named characters also have it...

Golden Keshig Lances
Talon of Perdition
Sword of Balenight
Forgebreaker
Hand of Dominion
Glory Aeterna
Forgebreaker Desecrated
Gravis Force Blade
Worldbreaker
Illuminarium
Anaktis Blade
The Instrument
Demo Charge
Libertas
Extinctor power claw
Tians'han
Hammerhand
The Liberator
Defiant

Another 19... that's 38... well, there's a 3 in there.

>>96096298
>Regular termies did
Regular termies are still 2A.

>>96096294
Per unsaved wound

>>96096257
>Damage is good
No not really it was not needed, they just needed to change brutal problem solved.
>It's created restrictive weapon design
No GWs lack of creativity did that.
Gw could have made breaching as
Breaching(x/y) where a wound roll of x gives the ap of y allowing a lot of variance on weapons across the board.

Gw is just shit at making rules. Damage is a stat not needed because gw handles it BADLY every time see 40k it combined with rending AP system created a arms race that lead to 9th.
>>96096321
Brutal should have been
Brutal(x) if a model suffers a wound from a weapon with this rule, if they fail the save for it, they suffer x wounds inflected to them.

Making brutal a rule that multiplied the saves you needed to make was a massive fucking mistake change that and brutal is fucking fine.

>>96096285
>"but what if you dont outnumber them" then you dont really need the help do you?
I heavily disagree. Using a Retinue to kill troops and other such pushovers is a massive waste. Especially for the Death Guard, whose own troops are top tier and can be used for that
Also it's so weird that 5 Deathshroud do 15 attacks, but 4 do 16. "I needed you to punch me to unlock my power" is some anime thing (and that's Raven guard's)
It is a pity Deathshroud just aren't true Terminator Praetorians, and they should be relegated to mowing grass and avoiding Real terminator elites

>>96096348
>Brutal should have been
>Brutal(x) if a model suffers a wound from a weapon with this rule, if they fail the save for it, they suffer x wounds inflected to them.
Motherfucker that is literally just damage values again.

>>96096366
>4 do 16
Oh wait, Reaping 2. Five do 15, but Four may to 20 if outnumbered. What the fuck lmao

>>96096285
I'm with >>96096366
On this matter. Tbh the whole
>Well this super expensive unit is great at killing MEQ
Is such a non-sequitor, because wanna know what else is great at killing MEQ? Like fucking everything. A basic bitch unit on terminators with power weapons will mog meq. If your elite retinue is not good at mogging AT LEAST teq units not even elite terminators (ws5) just like good at killing ws4 terminators they kinda suck.

>>96096348
>No not really it was not needed
Yes anon, dreads taking 6/7 lascannons to kill was totally good. It should take half a dozen meltaguns to the face to bring one down.

No you fucking retard, damage was absolutely needed. Brutal exists as an early attempt at it, to represent weapons with singularly powerful attacks which are better suited to taking out multiple wound models that are NOT susceptible to being instantly killed. Brutal is just not very good, being a shittier version of WHFB's multiple wounds(X) rule (design wise).

>Gw could have made breaching as
>Breaching(x/y)
It exists, its called immaterial blades. It does not at all solve the issues created by arbitrary instant death thresholds which will dominate 99% of the models in the game and leave a 1% immune to everything as a result.
Breaching(X/Y) is also largely pointless in a system with only two relevant armor values, 3+ and 2+.

>Damage is a stat not needed because gw handles it BADLY every time
Which is why it works well here, clearly.

>Brutal(x) if a model suffers a wound from a weapon with this rule, if they fail the save for it, they suffer x wounds inflected to them.
That only fixes half the issues with brutal. The other half being "brutal creates a feast or famine scenario where weapons with the rule are many times better than those without".

>>96096348
>No not really it was not needed, they just needed to change brutal problem solved.
And add it to a ton of other weapons that have more than D1 now
Gee it's almost like that's what they did without needing another special rule

>>96096348
>>96096372
Twin Linked should have turned any hits into two hits.

>>96096348
>Brutal should have been
>Brutal(x) if a model suffers a wound from a weapon with this rule, if they fail the save for it, they suffer x wounds inflected to them.
What is damage, alex?

>>96096372
Except it's a rule sprinkled through our only on weapons that need it. For example las canon should not have brutal nor should it have brutal if you stand still

Atop that it should also be with the idea that ID is still in the game, which will effect it, meaning that weapons like th fists will be really good against thing that are t5+ while being pretty much a wash on T4 so that eya we don't get this situation where it's TH or bust because TH effectively doubles the number of saves that needs to be made.

>>96096385
>It exists, its called immaterial blades.
It's not, actually. Just as breaching sets the result (AP2) but allows for movement on the odds (3+-6+), Immaterial blades sets the odds (always on a 6) but varies the result (AP+1).

I believe anon wants a rule that scales on both.

>>96096372
NTA, but the problem with damage values is that GW always overdoes them.
3.0 has waaaay to much access to D2+

>>96096407
>believe anon wants a rule that scales on both.
Correct
Breaching(x/y) would give you 2 levers to work with vs 1.

You could see weapons like say heavy flamers now get a rule like breaching(6/3)
Or even chain weapons could get that rule
Auto canons could have breaching(4/3)
It opens up a lot more possibilities with our needing to go about dicking with damage profiles.

>>96096381
>A basic bitch unit on terminators with power weapons will mog meq
A basic bitch terminator unit with power weapons will NOT kill meq in a resonable manner, because they have two attacks each hitting on 4s. Even if they take power mauls thats still at most a marine dead per guy.

Deathshroud have a comparable points cost to those regular terminators (theyre what, 40ppm?) and will kill many more marines than that even without reaping. While also being incredibly resistant to displacement by the sort of heavy fire which would normally be good at removing terminators. This makes them an excellent area denial unit, capable of holding a point and denying it to the enemy.

>>96096366
Is it a shame? Maybe, but it is unfortunately their lot. They have two mechanical identities, being difficult to kill and being bad at killing terminators while being good into power armor. This leaves them with only so many options.
Theyre a durable brick wall which you set in the path of your enemies mass infantry to hold them there indefinetly and kill scores while they do it. Theyre not a unit that wants to slug it out with the enemy thunder hammer terminators.

>>96096381
Not to mention they already have Grave Wardens for killing MEQ, with their deathcloud and poison guns

>>96096441
Grave wardens also have power fists for killing terminators.

>>96096439
Yeah while said MEQ do fuck all against them in response also just slap like 1 dude with a pair of lightening claws and watch him blender a unit
Meq get fucked by basic terminators because now those MEQ are all tied up.

>>96096366
>is some anime thing (and that's Raven guard's)
Can we swap our LA for the ability to use Truck-kun to isekai a single enemy model?

>>96096366
There always will be a "weakest into fellow unique termis". Not all legions used termis to hunt big things, some used them to bully mid tier and lower enemies in high volume. It doesn't translate as well to table top unfortunately.

>>96096439
Why the fuck would you want to walk death shroud into marines? That is such a fucking waste of points.
I mean in the name of cool yeah watching them reap marines is cool but effective? It's like driving a nail with a sledge hammer I guess.

>>96096269
Sorry bro

>LA pics sorted
litter.catbox.moe/738illeq5ox1gi64.rar
i've found something else as well later

>>96096456
>i've found something else as well later
well don't be a tease, tell us.

>>96096180
Oh dude don't worry you can easily make that Chaplin heavy just give him a boarding shield from his war gear opti-.....oh....

>>96096462
>tell us.
the same thing in a different format, if you catch my drift

>>96096418
And even then 3.0 is restrained as fuck compared to when 40k and AoS got damage.

>>96096418
>3.0 has waaaay to much access to D2+
No it doesent.
D2, which is the vast majority of weapons with multiple damage, is found generally on the weapons which would have previously been instant death. Power fists, lascannons, missiles.
D3, which is incredibly rare, is generally found on the top end of anti-tank guns and the heavy ordanance. Laser destroyers, demolisher cannons, melta.
There are some weapons that are D2 which would not have been instant death previously (autocannons), but there are also weapons which are not D2 or only conditional D2 which would previously be instant death (lascannons, missiles)

In melee D3 is basically nonexistent outside of challenges, primarchs, and dreadnoughts. The only regular marine units that have it are saturnines, who are so bad in melee it basically doesent matter, and they trade the usual strength of power fists for it.

D3 is also, unlike what you are implying, not problematic to the game. Its not some linearly scaling thing where D3 is just always better than D2, because in most circumstances the two are identical. Regular marine infantry only have two wounds. D3 plus exists so weapons can be more effective into tanks and/or monstrous creatures.

You also dont seem to be cognizant of the lack of rerolls, which have reduced the general lethality of the game

>>96096452
>Why the fuck would you want to walk death shroud into marines?
Because theyre good at killing power armor safely? Marines or ideally vets if you can catch them, are the most optimal target for deathshroud. Numerous power armor bodies.

You throw them onto a point to clear the enemy out and then sit there denying it to the enemy forever unless they commit a gross overkill worth of firepower to the task.

>>96096418
>3.0 has waaaay to much access to D2+
Fucking where?
There's autocannons with D2 and that's the only thing I can think of that didn't ID you before and/or had brutal
And they are pretty fucking expensive because of it

>>96096485
No I don't catch your drift

>>96096511
>reduced the general lethality of the game
You had me until this.

>>96096485
leaked PDF?

>>96096503
For now. You're on the treadmill, and the speed only goes up.

>>96096439
>theyre what, 40ppm?
It's 220 for 5 Deathshroud. It's 210 for 7 other regular terminators.
Even armed with power swords, 7 terminators kill ~7 tacticals (I love combi bolters). This might make those 20 Tacticals (200 pts) run.
Regular Terminators are already enough, and using a Retinue-class unit for troop hunting is wasteful.

Do knights still have their stomp attacks? I want to know if my brass scorpion still gets his free d3+3 s9 ap2 attacks
Also please post the brass scorpion stats if they've been leaked
Is it safe? Is it's ws5 alright?

>>96096444
They have the power fists and 3A, but not the WS5. Compare them to actual elite terminators and the difference will hit you in the face.

>>96096535
Nta but not having shred on every chainsword and chaplain not rerolling all hits for the units is definitely noticeable.
Terminators are a lot resilient in melee now and even more at range agianst small arms
Dreads have been kneecapped hard too
HSS are a lot more expensive
There's not a lot that has become significantly better aside from tacticals at certain ranges

Some local guy wants to start up a 3.0 slow grow league at 500 pts.

custom ruleset in our disc group needs collating and reformatting, how far should we go to avoid stepping on GWs toes™? Looking to use public use artwork and a custom template so it's mostly terminology, rules wording, names and events. Probably wouldn't be an issue at our scale of play but if someone malicious reported it or it ever did take off what are the minimum safeguards for copyright standards?

>>96096446
Anon that's your gambit.
Honestly I might consider players choose their Legion Trait from among three options: 1.0, 2.0, and current 3.0.

>>96096511
the biggest increase to the lethality of the game is the removal of artificer armor. nothing else comes close.

Anyone has a unit profile template to write custom units like this?

>>96096579
If you don’t make any money off of it in any way then you can do whatever you want.

>>96096564
>Regular Terminators are already enough, and using a Retinue-class unit for troop hunting is wasteful.
NTA, disagree if it wins you the game. Scoop up the enemy Tacticals, plant yours behind the shroud to be a buffer to what what wants to punch tacticals. Using a Primarch to hunt scoring isn't beneath them. Nothing that wins you the game is beneath any unit when used at the right time. Don't fall into hyperbole where any one player can only use one tactic for any given unit. Shroud can make for a great speed bump if it means farming VP just as well as they can help beat up elites.

>>96096600
Ask the guy on Reddit
>See someone make something
>Go somewhere else to ask how they made it

Tarantulas are cute!

>>96096600
You can see this in word or excel in 5 minutes.

>>96096533
Archaeotech Pistols
A whole bunch of Autocannons
Gravis Bolt Cannon
Combi-greande Launcher (Krak)
Flamestorm Cannon
Gravis Plasma Cannon
Croizus Arcanum

Disintegrator Pistols are now far, far more available

Shred and Critical hits can now push weapons up to D2, which includes every single chain weapon, and potentially every single gun with the new BS chart.

It's a lot.

>>96096511
>You also dont seem to be cognizant of the lack of rerolls, which have reduced the general lethality of the game
2.0: "Hey, I know you're hitting on a 2, but if you get a 1, you re-roll it, meaning you got from a hit 5/6 of the time to 35/36 of the time."
3.0: "Hey, if you roll a 6 on a chainsword, we double the damage. Have Fun."

>>96096535
All rerolls are gone anon. The extra shots some weapons got to compensate for it are not enough to actually make up for the difference.

Take a laser destroyer:
In 2.0 its 2 shots (twin linked) S9 Ap1 (ordnance)
In 3.0 its 2 shots S10 Ap2 (not that it matters now) heavy D. Stronger right? Except it isnt, because the potential for higher damage (which doesent matter into most targets) is not enough to offeset the damage losses for the reduction in accuracy. You went from hitting 8/9 times to hitting only 2/3 times with the same gun.
Multi meltas are now S9(potentially) D3, they also lost twin linked.

In melee shred is now an entirely different rule. While it does make a lot of weapons now better into 2w units it also makes many weapons now worse at dealing with regular power armor. (and Shred now does nothing in fights between 1w units)
Take lightning claws (not that they have shred now)
6 LC attacks in 2.0, hitting on 3s, is 3 dead marines. 6*2/3*3/4
6 LC attacks in 3.0m hitting on 3s, is 6*1/6+6*1/2*1/2 dead marines. Or 2.5.

Hatred, an absolutely insane damage steroid from 2.0 (essentially 50% extra damage a lot of the time) is now gone, replaced with +1 to wound (in every round, not just the first).
Preferred enemy is gone.
Master crafted is gone.
Brutal is gone.
Instant death is gone.

Getting damage onto the enemy is now harder for most units. While most (not all) melee units gained an attack, between the loss of charging attacks and 2 weapon fighting this can be seen as a net neutral thing, likewise for shooting.

SOME units are going to be less durable, in particular dreads, but in general things should be dying less not more, even with the fact that some weapons can deal 2w when they couldnt before.

>>96096599
Okay thats fair. But AA tanking was scummy anyways.

>>96096600
Busted as fuck, who designed this?

>>96096612
I asked the guy but he hasn't answered.

>>96096579
If GW cared you are fucked but we are lucky that they don't.

>>96096451
>Not all legions used termis to hunt big things
Deathshroud are literally hand picked from across a hundred thousand by Mortarion himself. He doesn't go "hmmm yeah this guy can KILL TACTICALS" lmao
>>96096523
>Because theyre good at killing power armor safely?
The problem is that they should be good at fighting other termies. They are not. They should be. It is wrong that they are not (which they should).
>Yeah but they're not
But. They. Should. Be.
>Vets
>Numerous
10 vets do not outnumber even 5 Deathshroud, let alone the 12 you can bring
>You throw them onto a point to clear the enemy out and then sit there denying it to the enemy forever unless they commit a gross overkill worth of firepower to the task
"A single Cataphractii Praetorian squad" is not gross overkill. In fact it is the expected, reasonable and adequate force to engage a hard point like that.
Deathshroud are not for holding a point. They can capture one (like eeeevery terminator can), but unlike regular terminators, they can't hold it because they have flamers instead of 4-shot bolters

>>96096535
Lascannons are markedly worse at killing tanks now than they used to be.

It used to be 10 HSS lascannons firing into say, the front armour of a russ (AV14) would make 10 shots, score about 7 hits, get 2 glance/pens on the first shot then reroll thanks to sunder for another 1~2 hits and comfortably kill the russ on average rolls.

Now stationary lascannons make the same 10 shots, score the same 7 hits but usually only pen twice. Leaving the Russ operating on 2 HP.

The lascannons like, the most common anti tank gun in the game and its noticeably worse than it used to be at killing tanks. It's better against tactical marines now since it can move and still shooting them but better doesn't mean its a good use of your time.

At the very least vehicles are tougher now against most common anti tank guns other than massed melta at half range.

>>96096600
>Legioners

>>96096614
Man, so tempted to get a bunch of them.

>>96096579
>what are the minimum safeguards for copyright standards?
Don't tie your discord account to your main email, silly. Let GW sue hitlercoxx1488@gmail.com for all you care

>>96096630
It's really not. Half those weapons are on dreads that hit less now or on specific characters
A bunch of the others have no AP. The flamestorm cannon lost torrent and have no ap
Critical hits is very limited and shred goes on weapons that have no ap as well and most of the time you don't want fighting models where it matters
Chainswords attacking terminators went from wounding 75% of the time to losing the charge attack and wounding 33%. Them being D2 1 out of every 6 to wound rolls does not compensate at all

>>96096614
Can't believe the legions stole our Tarantulas. Can't have shit around Saturn.

Shield trait only gives you the Shieldwall! reaction?

>>96096641
>2.0: "Hey, I know you're hitting on a 2, but if you get a 1, you re-roll it, meaning you got from a hit 5/6 of the time to 35/36 of the time."
Thanks for bringing that up, I totally forgot to mention that heavy BS5 shooting is basically gone now thanks to the nerf to dreads. So you dont have super accurate heavy weapons roaming around in every game.

>3.0: "Hey, if you roll a 6 on a chainsword, we double the damage. Have Fun."
Dealing 2x damage on a 6 is a smaller damage increase than rerolling failed wound rolls.

A chainsword hit into a veteran in 2.0 does 1*3/4*1/3*1 damage (0.25)
A chainsword hit into a veteran in 3.0 does 1*1/6*1/3*2+1*1/3*1/3*1 damage (0.222222....)

And thats the best case scenario for chainswords (well, the actual best case scenario for the new chainswords would be some sort of t6 zero save unit I guess, but even there theyre going to barely outperform old shred). Into normal 1w marines (which are what chainswords will normally attack) its a flat 50% damage reduction since the multiple wound aspect literally doesent matter.

Knight leaks when?

>>96096630
You can count the number of Native BS6+ units in the game on your fingers anon.

>>96096702
Yes. The +1 toughness also means shit in a edition where instant death no longer exists. It's useless.

>>96096456
I love how you went through the effort of starting every file in a folder with a number but windows is actually legit too retarded to parse it, auto sorting it different for every file and when opening it in photos mixing the order again so it sometimes starts you in the middle or end so I can't just read it in order.

>>96093554
To slowly crush the "testicles" of the rancid reeking numale poofter who first proposed femstodes in a hydraulic vice and feed the resulting goo to anyone who was involved in okaying them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SihEAMIJeh8

I still hate you circle and I won't play your hacked together favoritism you call an edition

>>96096690
>and shred goes on weapons that have no ap as well
Thats not quite true. Theres now a not insignificant number of "terranic greatsword at home" weapons like carsoran power axes and master crafted power axes (the IH ones) which have a decent shred number on top of their breaching or whatever to let them punch at 2w 2+ armor (essentially like what terranic greatswords used to do/still do). Chainglaives too althiough theyre only 6+.

Anyone got an idea on how to price a 4k point army out if I want to sell it? My traitor BA got got molested and I was already planning on selling it during 2.0.

List:
Inferno Pistol Moritat
Praevian
JP Hammer Praetor

5 Crimson Paladins
Boxnought with Fist and Plasma
2 unpainted BA contemptors
5 converted Dawnbreakers
10 veterans with claw
MK5 apoth

20 despoilers
2x 10 Tartaros w/ sgt Hammer, 5 dual LC, 5 power fists

5 jetbikes
5 seekers

Leviathan dread

Kytan daemon engine

Some of the stuff ain’t pictured but the general painting quality is consistent I think. Drop pods got sold a while ago.

>>96096614
what HBs do tarantulas have?

>>96096702
Yes. +1 toughness means a lot in the edition where bolters shoot twice across their full range. I love it.
Wish Breachers (and similar special units) could use it with the same provisions Phalanx Warders can (free but locks you in place)

>>96096719
oh god breacher are really shit.

>>96096731
Buy an ad.

>>96096737
>Wish Breachers (and similar special units) could use it with the same provisions Phalanx Warders can (free but locks you in place)
I think phalanx warders should have some special things going for them desu. And the posterboy unit for the reaction doing it for free just feels wrong.

>>96093738
>>96093782
Being this literal is a symptom of autism btw.

Is breaching affected by hatred? Would the +1 to wound mean a breaching 6+ weapon walso breaches on 5+ against a hated target?

>>96096660
Give him a bit, he maybe works or something.

What was the turning point that lobotomized these people?
>I want militia to be the imperial guard.
Just play guard you fucker and leave militia alone, this is an army for conversions not one to allow 40niggers to jump in and ruin this system too more than they already have. I should stop looking at the discord even if I see more models getting posted there.

>>96096761
No, modifiers do not affect rules that take effect on a certain dice roll.

>>96096751
Asking a question and not expecting an answer is a symptom of being a woman

>>96096761
All rules are always on unmodified rolls

>>96096665
>hmmm yeah this guy can KILL TACTICALS
No wonder he lost. Let his opponents farm VP while he was aura farming.

>>96096733
I'm sorry for your loss bro. They massacred you. It's a beautiful army.

>>96096764
I in fact think we should do our upmost to scare away 40k players

>>96096767
>>96096771
Thanks for the clarification anons, was trying to figure out if the headhunter banestrike combis are as bad as they look (they are)

>>96096672
Melta is also weird now. It operates in this spot where most of the time it will bounce off, but if it gets a good shot off it does massively gross overkill damage to a tank. So its a bit hard to quantify how lethal it is.

But yes, the loss of armorbane/sunder for the purposes of penetrating vehicles made them more durable. Hullpoints are nearly doubled on some tanks, and penetrating them is now harder than ever. So while some guns can deal severe damage to them (damage 4 arachnus lascannons are s10) between the loss of accuracy and reliability to penetrate theyre if not outright more durable then "more variantly durable", where theyre going to have very feast or famine survival (as opposed to reliably dying but maybe a bit slower).

The IW and NL trait no longer help killing tanks either, and haywire is gone.

>>96096761
Everything is affected by hatred. Not on the tabletop. I mean like, your general vibe, bro.

>>96096784
We already failed that during 2.0

We should have gatekept harder. HH has already been ruined by the refugees.

>>96096724
>windows is actually legit too retarded
windows can sort by name, it looks fine on my screen.

>>96096456
thank you my friend

>>96096786
Theyre 4 shots each at BS5(?) s5(?). Theyre not bad at all.

>>96096784
This.

>>96096823
>Strength 4 AP 4
They're garbage. Might as well take more tactical marines at that point.

>>96096534
>>96096550
>>96096724
Ok bros, it seems like the search function also works; it's crazy how you can just find the stuff you need on the internet.

litter.catbox.moe/9zh539zknqu9vqso.pdf

>>96096822
np, check out this >>96096843

>>96096763
I suppose... I just want the template so I can write the units for 40k and 3.0 in that format. 3.0 is closer but still worse for no reason?

>>96096786
Hatred is also only in close combat anyways. T.sad about terror squads Not too sad mind, a rhino rush of a vokite squad of terrors might be pretty good

>>96096809
no clue why, I have to manually sort by name and it force separates by date, but in that case at least keeps the order when viewing the images,
When opening a file where I seemingly don't have to manually sort it jumbles the order when opening the images.
Must've fucked it up when extracting, since the compressed folder are nice and neat and orderly.

>>96096764
Solar auxilia is elite imperial army. Like, the top third of it...meaning there's 2/3rd that are not solar auxilia.
But they're also not Militia, because those (at least in 2.0) represent things closer to PDF garrisons, cultist rabble, indigenous early crusade forces and so on. Meaning they're not the bulk of the Imperial Army either.
So, there's a human force in between SA and Militia, and they dress like this? I wouldn't have minded in 2.0. Idk their stats or cost in 3.0

>>96095394
So after a model dies, you could do another recovery check when you move to the next one?

>>96096843
a gentleman and a scholar

>>96096787
10 meltaguns at max range cannot damage a russes front armour at all because they're S8 and only get armourbane at half range. They hit 7 times, glance once and inflict a single status.

Get them six inches closer and they hit 7 times, pen once, instantly deal 6 damage and slag the Russ.

In 2.0 melta did 1 glancing hit at range same as in 3.0 but at half range they gain armourbane so like, 3~4 penetrating hits into the front armour which also slag the russ.

Melta works very differently now mechanically but the end result of killing vehicles in half range is unchanged.

>>96096862
Does hatred activate on a disordered charge?

Sure.

>>96096885
Hatred is just a flat +1 to wound vs the enemy in melee now (forever), its not a charge related rule any more.

>>96096867
Sure.

>>96096891
me when i need to pee vs me when i need to poop

>>96096865
I think it might read one format first and then the other one. Like JPGs first and BMPs go after, or something. This can be turned off as well i think

>>96096867
I'd kill for plastic vostroyans, especially if I can give all of them the cool gasmasks.

>>96096834
I don't know how much Headhunters cost. How many tacticals should they kill?
>>96096786
Also, they went from 3 attacks on the charge to only 1: no more +1A from charging, no more +1A from having two CCW.
You are either written as a melee unit, or you aren't.

What are folks expecting on friday?

>>96096907
>You are either written as a melee unit, or you aren't.
Or youre terror squads, who have 2A but want to be a ranged unit.

>>96096907
125 points for the first 5 headhunters, +20 for each extra one

>>96096923
Public execution of the team al quaeda style. More seriously I expect damage control where they point people towards the legacies doc.

>>96096936
So theyre worth 2 tacticals each, have 2x the firepower of a tactical (no heavy, but theyre also better BS and breaching). Seems fairly even there.

>>96096923
Not much. If we're lucky GW will show more of the models they've already teased during the HH 3.0 reveal stream. But it's just gonna be femstodes

>>96096867
Couldn't you create such a force with the right combination of providence?

>>96096940
If the entire rules hadn't leaked the legacies rules would have been known at the same time as everything else. But the leakers completely ruined that, and people these days are too retarded to realise they're working with incomplete information.
Wonder how much outrage there would have been in that instance, depending on how much stuff is in the legacies of course.

>>96096905
Plastic Vostroyans would been cool AF. unfortunately Valhallans are more likely since they're actually still mentioned by GW.

>>96096954
He can in 1.0 but he's just missing a couple of army units which he would hardly be barred from taking by other players. Same in 2.0 except that according to some people the militia and third line type have to go for an IA force, ymmv on if they should. It's probably going to be the much of the same for 3.0.

i am the only one that think that it is weird that hellguns aren't a thing in HH?

>>96096946
They die just as easy as a tactical marine though, only 1 wound with a 3+ save. There is no world in which headhunters will trade even, even when shooting fucking tactical marines.

>>96096936
Hmmm I'm not convinced. At least they can infiltrate two Precision 4+ Multi-meltas? That ought to do something.
>>96096946
Exactly. Meaning you might be better off using actual tacticals instead.
Maybe a Recon or Seeker comparison would be more apt