I say thee Neigh edition
Previous Heresy:
>>96087035>HH 3.0 Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3
https://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://imgur.com/a/8EaFmTM
And more you should probably backtrack the last two or so threads. Seriously, check the thread before you ask for every little thing.
>New Edition upon ushttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>New to The Horus Heresy? Don't behttps://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back upใAdeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialisใ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm
>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
Thread question:
What would it take for you to accept 3.0?
>>96092840 (OP)>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?If it was literally just 2.0 with some points tweaks and some minor reworks for special rules (brutal etc.).
>>96092830Oh, alright, that does sound useful then.
>>96092840 (OP)>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?Change charges back, change challenges back, change deep strike back (at least make it fucking usable), re-add all the options, actually fucking use Attacks Modifier, insist upon tactical statuses less, red add two-weapon fighting, change the WS chart, change force org back (to 1.0), change missions and scoring back (at least most of the way), change the formatting back, dear god, make wargear wargear again... it'd be a start.
>>96092840 (OP)>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?A formal post from Games Workshop admitting they fucked up and fumbled it, and then as a gesture of goodwill free PDF releases of updated Liber's once they've spent a few months fixing them and adding options back.
7 hours after the last post about 5 people cancelling their preorders, still zero copies sold. Total for the day Minus-4.
Saturnine is fucking DEAD.
>>96092866It is, especially since statuses last until they're cleared. They don't go away automatically.
And routing is the worst of all of them. If you can panic a HSS in your shooting phase, you'll prevent them from reacting to anything else making them easy targets for a charge or to keep them from popping return fire on your own units shooting them
>>96092840 (OP)>TQNothing. I even started buying old books. Hopefully 2.0 Libers will be on discount once new ones come on sale.
>>96092840 (OP)The issue with 3.0 isn't the balance.
Every edition has its balance issues, fixing old shit and creating new problems.
The issue isn't even specifically certain shitty rules (and removal of options), which can be houseruled like people have done for 2.0.
The problem is there are shitty rules, loss of options, and 30k now looks like its locked into the 3 year paypig cycle.
Even with houserules making it better than 2.0, its just gonna be a new set of bullshit in 3 years.
Where as if I stay with 2.0 or even 1.0 and houserule to fix issues, its already not the current edition of rules, so I don't have to care about future rules churn.
>>96092888Sorry people aren't buying it from your literal who website.
Normies are going to slurp it up.
>>96092840 (OP)>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?The legacy pdfs having bike characters at launch
What do we think a list of problems inherent to 2.0 could have been fixed without the disaster for 3.0?
>>96092904Mostly this. But I'm also never purchasing any wargame which is 4 turns long. Hard dealbreaker no matter what.
>>96092920Leave pretty much all the units and legion rules alone while adding the new statuses + related rules onto weapons and units as appropriate.
Massage existing rules to work with the new challenge phase, tune up reactions and fix interceptor spam.
Really, I think that if the unit roster hadn't been gutted the way it has in the libers, the game would have some grumbling but otherwise be afloat. If the legacy pdfs are really comprehensive, then they may be able to pull out of the nose dive, but that's a big if.
>>96092906You posted a literal-who website which only had 3 boxes, nobody gives a fuck if they managed to sell 3 boxes. Saturnine is the biggest flop in GW history now, literally negative sales.
>>96092941>Saturnine is the biggest flop in GW history nowyou know we've been here for all of aos right
>>96092941Yes, the unknown website 'ebay' which shows over 300 sold from 2 sellers.
>>96092957All of ebay is 300 total? Give it another month that'll be 2 copies per country on the planet, Great Success!
>>96092941>HEY. This thing that I don't like?>It is LITERALLY the worst thing EVER.>That thing I was mad about last week? No that's nothing. When I said it was the worst thing ever, it was just bantz.>THIS, though? THIS is the WORST. Until the next thing I get mildly upset about becomes THE WORST THING EVER because I'm mad and I've lost all touch with reality so I just assume everyone on the planet must be as angry as ME about THIS thing.
>>96092965Betrayal at Calth, Burning of Prospero and Age of Darkness never sold out btw
>>96092956>>96092961STOP THAT RIGHT NOW AND DOOMPOST ABOUT HOW HH 3.0 IS A FLOP OR YOU'RE A HECKIN SHILL
>>96092906>Ebay>the website that allows scalpers to pretend to buy their own product, never pay anything and then pretend it's 300 sold so you'll try to buy a scalped copy from themNice troll.
>>96092956Fellow son of Olympia, do you plan to bring all 3 of those Vindicators into 3.0?
>>96092965Do you have problems reading? That is 2 sellers.
>>96092981>PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE TAKE MY BAITYeah, the one nobody discount games site that splits pre-orders between their HH section and their pre-order section is totally the one data point that we should all believe religiously
>TQ
I dunno, if I want to play in the setting with no wargear options I can just play Legions Imperialis.
Also taaaanks
>>96092956This is a part of my collection that I used in a 4k game.
>>96092985>do you plan to bring all 3 of those VindicatorsYes and always
>into 3.0Really depends on what my local is playing. Can't really play 2.0 if everyone is playing 3.0 and can't play 3.0 if everyone is playing 2.0. The only thing I really care about is getting a 3rd land raider and some mk2 guys since I want my army to be as cross compatible with 40k as possible.
>>96092956posted last thread but think I'm sticking with word bearers + colchisans
Saw a post on reddit from someone who got his hands on the MK2 marines already.
He said they do not have vambraces on the sprue like the MK3 ones do for the weapon upgrades.
That is a bit concerning as the arms will look noticeably difference.
Long shot, but anyone know where I can get left handed combi-bolters without 3d printing? I want to use the old deathwing maces as the thunder hammers for my cataphractii command squad, but they're all right handed
>>96092840 (OP)If it wasn't for wargear changes making units boring, useless or non-existent, I'd actually be pretty much fine with everything. The new edition rules, as autistically precise as they've been written, are workable. As shoehorned the status effects are they encourage using different sorts of equipment. Artificer tanking is gone though the ramifications of eliminating so much AP2 is gonna be felt. List building might be weird but prime slot benefits are actually pretty neat.
But actually making models is fucking boring now and so much of my army is gone why would I bother anymore?
>>96093030>That is a bit concerning as the arms will look noticeably difference.So... the arms that aren't the same design as any existing armour might not look like any existing armour?
I'm shocked.
>>96092941Illiterate niggas
>>96093080Not an argument
okay
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>>96093080Workable. Maybe not OSHA compliant but still workable.
>>96092909From what Iโve heard from the few snippets of legacy leaks floating around in the warp, everythingโs returning thatโs not absurd like large vehicles that need lots of kitbashing
>>96093091All the issues have been posted ad nauseum round here and I've seen next to no cohesive arguments with them. If they got no real discussion then, I don't expect any now.
>recently had a meme event where we brought the dick-kickiest army we could, ignoring force org
>what I came up with was:
>10 plasma myrms with an archmagos and magos malagra to give preferred enemy and monster hunter
>4 assorted thanatars with a few tech priest wranglers
>raven guard primus medicae with infravisor to give the myrms a FNP and nightvision
>night lord delegatus for terror assault
>2 preysight+helical lascannon boxnoughts
>rest of the points with thallax
>opponents had to score our army from 1-10 based on how unfun it was to fight against
>tfw got an almost perfect 10 average
>>96093119The only people that have seen legacies doc is GW corporate employees, and they aren't going to be leaking things.
>>96093177They do just not loudly and itโs certainly not large leaks
>>96092840 (OP)>What would it take for you to accept 3.0?Not a single gw miniature in my group.
So, is it true that you can take a Warlord detachment without tax, besides playing at 3000 pts? I'm not bringing a Primarch.
Bringing a Retinue + Land Raider without needing a Consul + Logistical sounds pretty neat.
>>96093191>BRO just buy a $5000 printer it's so cheap!>also btw your printed minis will start shattering after 3 years but who cares!
>>96093142You had three factions? It does sound bad though
>>raven guard primus medicae with infravisor to give the myrms a FNP and nightvisionCan one do that in 3.0? Attach a character to a unit from a different faction
>>96093209both are untrue and cope.
>>96093201Yes yes that is obviously possible you don't need to post it six times a thread
I've been lurking in the threads for a while now, (mostly to see people's minis) but I've also gotten interested in starting an army myself. I know my local has a discounted copy of HH second edition, would that be a good place to start?
>>96093233>new edition just came out>should I buy last edition's rulebookno
wahapedia has the entire 2nd edition ruleset
>>96093238Should've specified that I'm talking about the starter set, not the rulebook by itself.
>>96093238Anon they don't even have siege of cthonia fully in what the fuck are you taking about
>>96093246oh yeah, that's a good starter set at a discount
>>96093247they don't? I thought they added it ages ago
Building 20 Heavy Support Marines isnโt about being meta or being fluffy, itโs about sending a message. Everything burns.
What's the Prime you see yourself using the most?
>>96093233Depends on if there's a 2.0 community around you
>>96092956Nice army Iron chad
>>96093246yeah the box is a great deal
>>96093191At least repost the fullsize image
>>96093013Hello see this post
>>96093280
>>96092840 (OP)Where are people getting their MK.IIs early from?
Also WHERE ARE MY SOLAR LEAKS?!
>>96092956isnt this a 40k army
>>96092906Show sold out for popular websites, not eBay. Scalpers inflate those numbers, it's probably a quarter of that. I think warpfire and another popular site sold out.
>>96093291>WHERE ARE MY SOLAR LEAKS?!in the toilet
>>96093265none i will play 2.0
>>96093287Are we just admit this is a reddit invasion already
>>96093291Google MKII DMS, and MKII LoggyK.
>>96093302warpfire only ever gets 5. I think skaventide was the only exception for that though.
>>96093265Logistical Benefit
I don't have many HQ choices, I don't want to take many HQ choices. And it very helpfully cuts out the book keeping of which units in my army have different stats than the identical unit next to it.
>>96093265Combat vets. +2 to WP for TS is just gravy.
>>96093292It's an age of sigmar army.
>>96093321based. Cant wait to see you play them as khadrons or chorfs.
>>96093321Shut up, frogposting faggot.
>>96093321I thought avatarfagging wasn't allowed
>>96093233Its good value for the miniatures, so yes.
Also there is a not small chance you may end up playing 2.0 at some point anyway, so the rulebook isn't bad to have.
ree
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>>96093353>one frog is avatarfagging
>Calibanite Warblades finally look like a good weapon
>Strictly Superior to Power Axes
>Terranic Greatsword is still better
>Master Sergeant Prime lets Sergeants take Terranic Greatswords
>Costs as much as a Power Fist/Thunder Hammer
>So do Terranic Greatswords
>Apothecaries can't take them anymore
RiP Warblades, a decent statline with no niche.
>>96093265Unnatural resilience, for Eternal Warrior 2. Rather, I don't know who I'll put it on. Siege Breaker, I guess
>>96093422Ehh apothecaries look weird this edition. Theyโre donโt really look worth taking no matter what unless youโre particularly worried about a unit failing status checks
>>96093422>>Master Sergeant Prime lets Sergeants take Terranic GreatswordsYou can only have one Master Sergeant
>>96093265 says it may only be taken once per detachment
>>96093265>>96093445NOOOOOOOOOOO THE STORMWING LIST
>>96093442Don't they reduce incoming damage by 1 (up to 0) on a 4+ or something? That can just nullify small arms
>>96093449you have to spend a reaction to do that
>>96093445It's still competing with Fist/Hammer though, and I'm not sure it's worth trading the S, D, and AP for speed. Maybe for a Terminator Sergeant where you actually save a few points by taking it.
>>96093422>>Calibanite Warblades finally look like a good weapon>>Strictly Superior to Power AxesI eye other legions' weapons and I get green with envy. For +10 pts wish I could swap Reaping 2 for Shred 6+ or something idk
>>96093442They put an extra power fist in a squad. That's good enough for me.
Is it me or did TS get a good glow up?
>>96092956really nice collection of iron warriors!
this is what i've got in my ultramarines so far (plus a leviathan that i finished after the photo)
>>96092840 (OP)An actual book, with an actual army list and actual minis to go with it.
>>96093513TS are pretty great, yeah. Not only are they getting a shit ton of cool combos to work with but Sehkmet are great again with more wargear than they had before on top of FINALLY having rules for kohpesh blades that are actually quite good.
Their prime advantage is an odd choice with flying space marines but that's just good fun.
>>96093536Let's be real here dude, nobody gives a fuck about Sisters of Silence. They've got female Custodes now, what do you want?
>>96093536Iโm gonna tattoo their forehead with the mark of tzeentch with my ass
Does anyone have the PDFs for the 1.0 books? I only have the first Legions book.
>>96093442They can't take combi-weapons anymore, so I couldn't take most of mine if I wanted to.
>>96093385if its the same one every thread then yeah. Anons gotta diversify
>>96093526Nice army. How did you weather it?
Continuing work on my volkite myrmidons despite them losing rules, weird how that was the impetus to get me focused on painting them again
>>96093668Such fortitude.
>>96093539This model is twice as illegal as it was in 2.0
>>96092840 (OP)>TQThey mainly just need to errata back wargear options, but I'm not too worried about that anyway because I'll just give my units whatever gear they have anyway and not care about what 3.0 says
>>96093603>wojak>atari>disco>rotoscope dance>metal gear risingI'm trying to think of how I would explain this gif to someone who hasn't been using social media in the past thirty years, and I'm not sure any explanation wouldn't sound like I'm suffering from apophenia or something.
Can someone post what Shieldwall! (yes, with exclamation mark) advanced reaction does?
It's not i the core, so I assume it's from Libers, but I didn't see it in the leaks.
>>96093526can you take more photos of that venerable dread?
>>96093696>>96093291Not a fan of shilling, but if you really are that desperate, there's this page https://spruesandbrews.com/2025/07/12/liber-auxilia-review-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-3rd-edition/
I don't know who they are or who you have a grudge against, so if you don't like them, don't clic lol
>>96092840 (OP)Hey OP, I think you missed the Mechanicum Imgur?
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>>96093698My group took one look at the wargear restrictions and said lol no, any of the consuls can take a termie armor or jump pack for 20 points or a bike or jetbike for 30 points, and all legion units can just copy whatever weapon options their command squad equivalent has with fixed tartaros Terminator melee weapon access. We all actually like the core rules changes we just think GW can go fuck themselves with boxlock and AI written drivel.
>>96093718Thanks. IF Cataphracts changing combi-bolters for shields to gain 4++ and Heavy trait they already had sounded like lunacy even for 0 points, but with reaction it's more of a sidegrade
>>96093603thanku! I paint all the chipping by hand, and then mostly use oils and some pigment powders around the feet/tank treads.
>>96093710here U go :)
his name is ancient garamond, he's a terran veteran
>>96093705>Hey remember the disco music you used to dance to in your 20s, 50 years ago? Look at this funny pic hahaha!>Of course I can help you send it to your friends, gramps
>Excited to run aethon and hermes sentinel marching parade
>Just hit me that they're probably gonna still suffer from the same leadership/falling back issues they had in 2.0
man
>>96093539But unfortunately no Praetor Punchy in 3.0. Not that number of fists matters mechanically.
>>96093513the biggest strength of Thousand Sons is no non-TS player will ever have a clue what your army can do because nobody else is bothering with the 6 core psychic disciplines plus your half a dozen random TS psychic special rules.
"Fugayzi, fugazi, it's a whazy, it's a woozie, it's fairy dust. It doesn't exist. It's never landed. It is no matter, it is not on the elemental chart. It's not real." - 30k player looking at TS rules
>>96093705It's a video of guy disco dancing surrounded by a bunch of pop culture references.
>>96093718On one side, I actually like Shieldwall. It is something a unit with shields would do, but making it a Reaction limits how many you can activate at the same time
On the other hand, it means we are in early stage 8thfication
>>96093770Divination seems quite solid. Too bad the Emperor banned the use of Psykers at Nikaea.
>>96093720>Hey OP, I think you missed the Mechanicum Imgur?Is there one for Space Marines?
>>96093805>he wasn't in on the liber astartes trading card game action
>>96093800Sorry sir, another unit on the otherside of the board activated the neurons in their apothecaries brain, so you're gonna have to just stand there slackjawed as you get charged and killed instead of holding your shields up.
>>96093216That imagine is unironically proposing that you buy a jewelry or dental scanner which do cost multiple thousands of dollars. An interoral scanner would actually be pretty much ideal, but they're like $3000 minimum.
>>96093837>1 Reaction base>1 Reaction from playing a 3000 pts game>1 Reaction from a Praetor>1 Reaction from a Special Assignment Praetor>1 Reaction from a Command & Control squad>1 Reaction from being UltramarinesI'm going to push the reaction system to its breaking point!
>>96093883>only 1 reaction per unit per turn Yeah good luck with that
>>96093758Unironically just run the hermes in MSU; splitting them up into duos will make them even more of a pain to kill anyway since it means your opponent will have to waste a unitโs whole shooting attack on at most 2 dickheads instead of wiping out 6 or killing 3 and making the other 3 run away.
The aethon situation is a little more problematic; you really just gotta hope they give them a reasonable cool stat so they donโt shit their pants when someone fires a nemesis bolter at them. Iโd say to run just one instead of a trio of them but assuming the SA hunter killer missiles are gonna be the same as the marine ones the aethon might actually end up being a really good long ranged gun platform if you give them lascannons + HKโs. The 4 turn time limit means weapons being limited kinda doesnโt matter as much so you may as well shill out for the big guns.
>>96092888Nathaniel Garro (the leaker) has acquired information about the upcoming betrayal (hh3 rules and libers) and has risked his life (being ratted out to GW by Pardo) to warn the faithful loyalists (fans of 30k) of the Warmaster's (James') plot to destroy the Emperor and Holy Terra (our beloved game system).
>>96093449On one wound unfortunately. Itโs kinda insane how shit it is. I get the other ability tries to balance it out but it doesnโt do it well
>>96093911Why does everyone assume I'm going to use 3 reactions on the same unit on the same phase? I bet it's the same guy.
No, anon. I am highlighting the fact that everyone outright bitched about the evils of two Return Fires and a single Overwatch per turn, and I would get to do maybe three of each.
Probably 2 of each and some two other reactions, more likely, as the counter to that is to focus a unit to death like it was necrons
>>96093944The Rules Drop Massacre will go down in wargaming history
Soup
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>send out a fairly generic email about the box to several of my LGS
>all of them respond within the hour, and all of them use the same wording despite me normally being on first-name basis with several of the stores
I think the pressure is on them now, when they realize they've been dealt bad product.
Btw the statement is, paraphrased: We have received multiple messages about this and are investigating. Anyone who wishes to return their Saturnine box, regardless of opened or not, can do so as long as you have a proof of purchase (receipt).
>>96094074GW would have been better off with a 1 week preorder window, 2 weeks is enough that many customers will wake the fuck up and cancel their preorder because GW are cocksuckers and don't deserve to be paid.
>>96094074>ask about refund policy>get reply about refund policySo this is the power of 150 IQ autists
Does the allies chart even exist in 3.0?
>>96093947This seems like it's on a "per model" basis. Like you could allocate to one model, make the recovery roll, and if damage is reduced, you assign the next hit to a different model, and can thus keep making recovery tests until you run out of models.
>>96093944>shillguinius knew about the coming death and the end of the game weeks before the normie, but still gave up all of his dignity to puppet for the dictator, even knowing it would destroy his reputation>the angel of copeshill sauntered up to the Warmaster, who was working to free us from GW's dictatorship by breaking the cycle. Shillguinius darts around in the air as fast as he can, trying to rat the Warmaster out and go on reddits and discords and try to ban everyone "for being negative">The Warmaster used his mastery of 5dimensional space (3d printing) to move faster than the laws of physics allow and snatch shillguinius from the sky>Shillguinius cried out in pain as he struck at the Warmaster "why are you killing my game?">A sudden clarity came to the Warmaster's eyes. "For the Ligma"
>>96094074As someone who has to send emails regularly at work, often to people I know on a first name basis, I can tell you that I have not, nor will I ever, type anything but a generic response.
>>96094142I don't think so, that's another strike against HH3.0
>Vulkan capable of liking Night Lords skinning civs alive>Morty being friends with Thousand Sons wizards>Lorgar having any friends at allImmersion destroyed.
Ignoring all the missing options, after watching more batreps I'm liking 3.0 less and less. Sucks bc I like some of the new rules like fliers, but I honestly prefer 2.0. Now I gotta work a community update for 2.0 that my friends will actually wanna play. Ughhhhh
>>96094142Allies are not core rules. Please wait for Tactical Journal #15: Back to Beta-Garmon where beta rules will be available for the low cost of ยฃ14.99 plus tip.
>>96092840 (OP)Hi fellas, I'm a bit behind on the leaks, what's this about a new consul type?
How are we feeling about drop pods? Is steel rain still possible without row?
>>96094291>1 deepstrike a turn maxyou tell me
>>96094291I have not seen a single leak that would suggest you can deep strike more than one thing a turn still
>>96094294>>96094295This edition is now unplayable.
>>96094297Hasn't Doom committed genocides?
Also please elaborate on how this edition is unplayable.
>>96094306My army is drop pod assault, this is my 911, hence the meme.
>>96093526>leave 40k for HH>play fucking ultramarinesWhy do people do this?
>>96094074This post has lying fag written all over it
> that multiple LGSes would respond to a nitwit who doesn't actually have a preorder and is Just Asking Questions> that you would risk your reputation at places who "know you by name"> that knowing someone's first name means you can identify them by firstname+lastname in an email> that you didn't post the boilerplate reply you got (too lazy to go as far as writing one for your larp)
>>96094338Ultramarines in 30k are way cooler.
>>96093526How did you make the rocky based of your characters? They look baller.
>>96092956Finished these dudes yesterday.
>>96092956I want to finish this thing soon
>>9609433840K is no longer a wargame. A person who enjoys playing wargames would enjoy HH more than 40K no matter what army they use or what colour it's painted.
>>96094375Drill your barrels big dog
>>96094338They look really good in 30k, especially the way he painted them. The designers did a really good job at mixing the roman elements with retro sci-fi. I'd ask your question about Blood Angels though, neither the 30k nor the 40k version works for me anymore. I think they look best in mk7 with an oldhammer paintjob and death company support.
bdd
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>>96094132Agreed. My impression is that this is what's happening.
>>96094135I didn't ask them about the refund policy, they responded with it. Normally they don't allow returns of opened boxes.
>>96094168I've known several of the people I contacted for over fifteen years, and their tone in emails is usually quite different. It would seem that they're sticking to a script on this one.
>>96092840 (OP)>TQIve already accepted it
I play SoH
>>96094408I work at an LGS and there hasn't really been any refunds. I canceled my preorder, but I haven't paid for anything yet.
>>96094387HH3 certainly isn't a wargame, circles on the ground, fake 'good boy points' and 4 turn matches. It's faker than pro wrestling.
>>96092956Some of my boys
>tfw I need to convert like 1/3 of them
>>96094439Cool, but nobody in this thread has ever played HH3, including the guy who posted his Ultramarines
Remember: thirdies are always trying to muddy the waters and shillpost whenever they find the opportunity. Anyone making glib remarks about the wargaming community as a whole is not one of us, and never will be. These are the kinds of leeches who will suck up to any entity they see as greater than them, which is why we have such an infestation of "influencers" who try to astroturf and copepost about the new edition. Fuck Pardo, and anyone else who swallows this slop with a smile on their face.
>>96094448Extremely gay looking kid's toy models. Why would you buy those, or truck with a game system that includes them?
Just your bad taste, from a life of experiencing nothing?
>>96094448So, how many saturnine boxes have you ordered..? :D
>>96094448it's truly amazing how shit heavy bolters look without the ammo belt mechanism. The second they switched to gay soda-cans or happymeal boxes underneath heavy bolters I never equipped one again.
>>96094448What's with the one of the left? Discontinued Moritat variant?
>>96094464the numbers on 3rd party websites are actually increasing. More people have gotten a refund than bought saturnine in the last week here. GW is gonna have to fire you.
>>96094471An old metal Devastator was what got me into this game back in the nineties. Peak Warhammer.
>>96094488You made me remember assembling those metal Devs and I had a 'lil panic attack
>>96094488I love good art so damn much. I was deeply concerned when I heard that Karl Kopinski fell ill, but he seems to be doing better. Call it parasocial, but the loss of an artist is always a tragedy in my opinion.
>>96094448>bolter with supressor/silencerThis is gay tacticool shit from 40k, get out of here
>>96094508Gay tacticool shit is explicitly 30k-only. The eliminator sniper squad in 40k primarily just shoots renamed Lascannons and are basically just another devastator squad. 30k is the one with tacticool-wannabe recon squads, tactical-wannable headhunter squads, and tacticool-wannabe scout squads and tacticool-wannabe seeker squads and tactical-wannabe mor gaythanu. Half the shit in-game has access to nemesis bolters despite them being utterly irrelevant in the lore.
>>96094408The box isn't even released yet so how would you have an opened one?
>>96094532boxes are mailed to stores way before 'launch day', stores just sell them weeks ahead of time, if GW finds out they get pissy.
Sorry you're not friends with any store owners.
If somebody have PICTURES with Master of the Legion, Firestorm, Void Shields, Shock please post them or direct me where can i find them. Please.
>>96094538Post pix of open box
>>96094479Numbers increasing on some rando shop you probably made up yourself.
Can you get data from all the thousands of shops around the world please, then we'll talk.
>>96094527Supressor/Silencer on Recon/Sniper unit
VS
Supressor/Silencer on a dishonoured gunslinger with a death wish
yeah
nah
that gear on moritat is gay
holy shit I'm getting 40 marines and the centurion for free with ยฃ40 extra profit after selling the singles.
>>96094488>>96094506Kopinski was the one that did the science-fantasy grimdark artwork as one of the best, shell casings for heavy bolters that are believeable, cool little details all over the place, creating characters who look hard as fuck with perfect expressions.
>>96093177Anon all leaks come from GW
>>96094571>he doesn't knowGet back to us how it went, friend.
>>96094532I assume he meant "even if it has been opened", as in after release.
file
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>>96094571you should buy more boxes then, anon
it's like an infinite mk2 glitch, right?
>>96094591Hah, not falling for your middle-eastern tricks that easily.
>>96093317That's pretty goodnon normal librarians too honeslty
Don't think it was intentional
How about stacking? IF gambit says it gives Eternal Warrior (1). Would that stack with Sigismunt EW(1) rule? Probably not, trying to find a reference in the rules about stacking and I can't
>>96094448The fact they never released the bolt pistol moritat is such a god damn tragedy.
>>96094557also Rapid Tracking we don't have a picture of that rule as well
>>96094607Rules usually specify what happens if the model already has them
>>96094557Shock is in the imgur I'm pretty sure. It applies the status in brakets to vehicles automatically
Firestorm lets you do vollyfire at full ballistic skill and, if you are charging, not go through with rolling to charge after doing them without suffering the status effect. Don't have it at hand tho
>>96094571Woah infinite money glitch!
>>96094591I feel like two boxes is bordering on support for the edition, I'm just happy if my ยฃ150 gets me 40 marines, a centurion, four rhinos, a fellblade and a contemptor.
>>96094557MotL is +1 reaction allotment
Cathay weapons for White Scars, what do you think?
>>96094641thank you, I just want to get pics to, you know, make anOP a bit better.
>>96094646thank you, i just need pics.
>>96094648Could definitely work. Might want to model on the power cable with greenstuff but definitely viable and cool looking.
>>96094648I think putting sci fi rebreathers and rifles on those infantry will make some kino Chogorian solar aux, but it's too expensive for me to properly entertain the idea as a project
dc
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>>96094648That gives me an idea...
What do you guys think a good thematic command slot choice would be for a Rangdan xenocides themed alpha legion army? I'm leaning towards either a moritat to go with my volkite angels tears or a siege breaker and some rapiers
>>96094648just be careful, lotta WS guys go too hard on the weeb, those bits are sick but if you put too many dragons on stuff it'll become too chinese
Back from a two week trip. I heard we hating on the new rules, can anyone sum up what went down for me?
>>96094557I don't know how to post pictures, I'm trying
Firestorm
>>96094712I was there... when james goyslop killed the Horus Heresy...
If I give in to my hobby goblin and made an allied detachment of solar aux for my space wolves, how should I fenris them?
I have loads of wolf tails from over the years of collecting (no i won't add them as butt plugs) but that's not much to go on. And a few knives in the leather will be okay too.
How do i make it more interesting?
>>96094641>Shock is in the imgur I'm pretty sure.thanks, found it in the mechanicum album
>>96094687Do you think the shields are too much for tank/jetbike decorations?
>>96094714Thank you very much anon!
>>96094722yeah i'm taking that picture instead its way better! thank you!
>>96094728thanks man thats great!
>>96094687>but if you put too many dragons on stuff it'll become too chineseWhy? I know they're way more into dragons, but Mongolians have dragons in their mythology and culture as well.
"In Mongolian myths, dragons symbolize the water element, the thunder, the wilderness, the power of the earth and the underworld. For example, if it thunders, myths are the gnashing of the dragon. Lightning strikes when a dragon rises from the sky and spits fire.
According to Mongolian belief, the lunar eclipse is also said to arise when a dragon eats the moon."
Anybody knows if Slow and Purposeful gives any bonus or penalty for that matter? Haven't seen that in any leaks. HYYG
>>96094718greenstuff random animal pelts on sergeants and officers
freehand runes on the larger flat-ish surfaces
replace veletarii axe heads with fenrisian axes from the grey slayers kit
glue the shields to your russes' hulls
>>96092840 (OP)>TQNothing.
GW has shown their hand, and I'm not touching this edition, no matter how many pdf and journal "fixes" the staple on.
Damn, you just posted what I asked, TY
Does anyone know what Armour-breaker does? I havent seen the Mech Special rule pages leak yet?
>>96094752on a successful Armor pen roll of x+, the attack inflicts an additional point of damage iirc
>>96094752we have mechanicum USRs but not the first page. https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
Without going third-party, which miniatures are the most suitable for representing Alpha Legion Operatives/Saboteurs?
>>96094759>>>> Anonymous 07/15/25(Tue)11:09:07 No.96094725โถ>>>96094714>Thank you very much anon!
>>96094722>smack a tank with a corpuscant stave>inflict 3 status effectslol
>captcha HHV20>HH V2.0ITS A SIGN
>>96094768Amazing, thankyou.
I can't find the generic legion units in the links, can anyone point me in the right direction? I may just be retarded
What does master of the legion guys ?
>>96093265Spamming combat Veterans for my troop prime slots because the status effects are clearly balanced around marine stats so If I don't my rifle sections won't do a thing all game.
Ultima cohorts get to double up on infantry tericos and each infantry terico has 1 prime slot. I'll take that and leave the non-prime troops unfilled.
>>96094811+1 reaction allotment
can anon(s) post that whole thing about goonhammer being shitty, shills and mods of the heresy discord?
>>96093445Stormwing aux detachments have prime slots, every stormwing aux you take can have a master sargent.
>>96094830Stackable if we bring multiple praetors ?!
>>96094846Yes but you can only bring 1 normally. You'd need to take the special assignment prime benefit to bring another, see
>>96093265And that's costing you the prime advantage on command option and having no extra detachment from that slot
>>96094830>More reaction shitThe more I see of this edition, the worse it gets.
>>96094846>>96094858You can bring any number of allied detachments as long as they are less than 50% of your points
You can bring 10 praetors from 10 different legions to form a power ranger unit that gives you a shit ton of reactions
>>96094862We start with 1 less than last edition and warlord traits don't exist anymore so it's less than before
>>96094838Yeah so it's not 1 per squad unfortunately
>>96094538Lets see the 'emails' lil bro
>>96094687White Scars are so Chinese they had to get a Chinese guy for the audiobook
>>96094878Does he have a thick Chinese accent?
>>96094878That was Nick Mullen
>>96093930>15 S9 shots turn 1.>3 S9 shots a turn afterwardsLike 60% of the units potential damage is unloaded in the first turn, lol.
>>96094867Honestly I don't need that much, I just want to throw orbital bombardment with the conqueror.
>>96094885When doing dialog yes
>>96094632>Rapid Trackingdoesn anyone know what it does in 3.0?
>>96094885Anon is alluding to Shogo Miyakita, who is British-Japanese. He puts on an Engrish accent when reading White Scars dialogue. And for Katsuhiro. In any case he's good.
pardo
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>>96094983Pardo the problem
He's a content creator who had foreknowledge of the incoming shitheap and said nothing
>>96094996>Pardo the problem
>>96094893Aethon sentinels have 4 hunter killer missiles though. I know weโre doomering about 3.0 or whatever but I doubt that theyโd shorten them down to just counting as a single missile.
>>96094996Even tried to shut down the leaks warning us of this clusterfuck of an edition.
How do meet up with /hhg/ to play Heresy with "winner tops" houserules?
Are any 40K IG miniatures off limits for HH?
>>96095034There's so fucking many third party options for Militia troops, why would you ever buy that kit from GW?
>>96095032I had an aneurysm trying to understand what you wrote, what is winner tops?
>>96095042Who said anything about Militia?
>>96095034This man lacks panache. We should send him into the penis explosion chamber immediately.
>>96094893>>96095026Never mind I just got what you were saying sorry Iโm retarded, firing off all the missiles at once right. I mean hell itโd make a dent. From 48โ away too for both weapons itโs actually an ideal rangeband, plus it means potentially staying out of range of annoying status causing weapons that could scare the walkers. Itโs not like theyโd be able to live until turn 4 so they may as well make a big splash
>>96095034Anything that is not Vostroyan is unacceptable
>>96095026I know that Aethons have four hunter killers, I have an aethon myself tho I gave it the flamethrower and frag missiles.
Is there any reason you can't just shoot all 4 turn 1 in 3.0?
4 hunter killers + 1 lascannon = 5 shots turn 1, a 3 man squad firing all its missiles drops 15 S9 shots into armour turn 1 then your down to just the lascannons the other turns.
That said tho thinking on it 3 aethons in one squad with this loadout is probably overkill. You'd be better off deploying them in pairs.
Feel free to tell me to find it myself but could someone please show me the new herald data sheet
>>96095034Nobody really cares about anachronistic lasgun marks or special weapons for Imperial Militia, vehicles are a big deal though. The most glaring problem on the Cadians is the imperialis. Scrape that off and they'll be fine.
>>96095061>vostroyan.>the guys who canonically refused to participate in the heresy.>not unacceptable.
>>96095064>Is there any reason you can't just shoot all 4 turn 1 in 3.0?Nah you can I was just a retard and totally misinterpreted what you were saying. Rules as written walkers can fire all weapons they have, and each hunter killer missiles counts as itโs own weapon so itโs technically possible unless they make the aethon have a unique weapon variant of it or something.
>That said tho thinking on it 3 aethons in one squad with this loadout is probably overkill. You'd be better off deploying them in pairs.You think? Theyโre likely to be BS3. 10 shots is nice and all, but I wouldnโt even trust a lascannon HSS to be able to take down an armoured unit in one volley this edition. Pairs probably would make them less interesting targets but I feel theyโd be better suited for marine or elite hunting then
>>96095075Every HH depiction of the imperial army had vostroyan asthetics before. That was just standard equipment at the time
>>96095034I'm not playing against that.
>>96095049He's a threadshitting nigger from the catalog trying to get (you)s by calling us trannies and gays.
(you)s are the only thing that gives his life meaning, don't give them to him and hopefully he kills himself.
>>96095075They still wear Imperial Army uniforms 10'000 years later for that exact reason, in my headcanon at least.
>>96095080nta but having more smaller units doesn't stop you from shooting at the same target. It just stops that target returning fire to all of your shooters or using smokescreen on all your shots
If you have the slots it's the better option unless bigger units are significantly cheaper
>>96094441>>96093526How illegal are these armies?
>>96093732Simply beautiful.
>>96095100I canโt imagine theyโll be that much cheaper so you have a point. I keep forgetting just how many slots are technically achievable with the new system. I plan on running Solar Aux as allies and even then I can technically squeeze in so much crap even without optimising detachment organisations itโs nuts. I know this was always sorta possible cause of tercioโs but god damn
>>96095080You hit with 1 lascannon and 4 Hunter killers on average. If you can angle side armour on a Krios or a predator you have decent chances of popping it in one volley, even hitting front armour the missiles will do work.
Does the hunter killer have armourbane? Cos if not you'll probably be glancing whatever you shoot at least once for some conditions even if you don't immediately pop it.
The aethons won't be killing land raiders of course but if they could it would probably be a bad thing.
I have trawled the archived boards for what feels like forever but have come up with nothing. Does anyone have the dreadclaw pod sheet?
>>96095133>Does the hunter killer have armourbane? Cos if not you'll probably be glancing whatever you shoot at least once for some conditions even if you don't immediately pop it.we're making assumptions obviously but assuming it's 1-for-1 the same as the marine HK's? Yeah they're packing armourbane. Lascannons also have armourbane so there is a chance they might be able to crack a land raider on some good rolls, but that also goes for a lot of things. I don't really run the numbers with this type of thing
>>96095100msu is better but in the case of smokescreen, it last for the entire phase so it doesn't matter how many units are shooting at the vehicle
Found the herald
How fucking easy would it have been to just give it Vanguard 1
Instead they give it this extra convoluted rule that does the same thing except in extremely specific circumstances and you have to do additional book keeping
>>96094774Genestealer Cults or Necromunda Scum, but give some of them weirdly high-tech weapons that have been intentionally made to look damaged or in disrepair.
Imagine this: a few shadowy figures running around, too small to be Astartes, but firing melta or plasma weapons from the darkness.
>>96095147Are there mechanical differences between missiles and guided missiles? I remember in hh1 that some flyers had chaff launchers which gave them an invul save against missile attacks, is there something similar in hh3, too?
>>96095147HKs look way too good to let you use more than 1 of them but they let Sabers shoot all 4 so...
>>96095132https://spruesandbrews.com/2025/07/12/liber-auxilia-review-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-3rd-edition/
This dude talks about Sol Aux datasheets a bit, one of the things he mentions is that the Aethon is 60ppm now but use dread rules now instead of cavalry rules. You can still squad them up tho lol.
The Hermes is 16 ppm, the Hermes Incursus is 20 ppm. There's a new "recon Terico" you can take if you bring a command squad on sentinels which gives you 2 Hermes squads and a squad of Aethons.
You can also take a single Hermes squad in infantry tericos now too in addition to transports and the Rifle sections themselves. Its way easier to fit sentinels in a list now. You can even claim objectives with sentinels in a Recon cohort which is cool.
He's the only one who is hyped for 3.0 and he doesn't even have a contract with GW
can you charge out of a rhino?
Seeing as I'm sticking with 2.0 I've decided to start doing some homebrew exemplary battles.
Anyone willing to give this a read over?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WZD2ePSdHX_nNeBrW5AGJatRIsQSXZlw/view?usp=drivesdk
Idea was to have a 30k razorback as the original lore for the razorback had it being rediscovered post heresy so I like to think there was a few knocking around on the edges of the galaxy before getting forgotten
>>96095180Neat artwork, even if it doesn't make any sense.
>>96095178A fun little story
>>96095178No need for razorbacks, they just introduced bolting a tarantula weapon battery to a rhino, just use that
>>96095069>The most glaring problem on the Cadians is the imperialis. I've seen people say this but the new ones just have a winged skull
Okay are melta bombs in the mechanicum book or am I just missing them in the liber?
>>96095188Well yes
But
These are currently sat on my desk
>>96095198They should be in exotic melee weapons
>>96095069I keep hearing that the Imperialis wasn't in use during the Horus Heresy.
And yet: "The Imperialis symbol, a winged skull, dates back to the Horus Heresy when it was used by the Loyalist Space Marine Legions and the Imperial Army troopers in recognition of bravery and loss. Later, it became a badge of honour borne by Loyalist units during the Heresy."
>>96095163Not sure as of yet honestly
>>96095166They are still one shot weapons so they aren't super duper broken imo, compared to terminators that can teleport behind you and zap you with a twin disintegrator gun all game
>>96095167Yeah I've read the article already, it's part of whats got me looking into atheons desu. Something did catch my eye though which was the stipulation that "calvary" models got line in the recon cohort doctrine, not just the hermes lights, which could theoritically mean running the better veletaris variants and granting them objective grabbing along with being able to mass use aethons.
>>96095171Yeah but it's a disordered charge
>>96095201Good looking models right there
I didn't mean model wise, I meant lore wise
These already look like tarantulas
>>96095180Does get me thinking why Custodes don't have an equivalence to thunder hammers other than Solarite Gauntlets being close
>>96095212Space Marine 2 was mediocre at best, but watching Cultists literally explode as you ran through them was pretty satisfying.
>>96095147>HKs are D3 with armourbane.Yeah you drop 6 damage into AV13 with the hunter killers alone using a pair of aethons, I've been assuming they were D2 all this time Holy moly.
You might not even need the lascannon at that point. Might be better to go Volkite + 4 HKs, use the missiles to annihilate a tank turn one then spend the rest of the game shooting at space marines.
Crunching the numbers the lascannon does less damage over the course of the entire game than the HK salvo does in 1 turn but assuming costs don't change they're both 20 points. Not sure the price is worth it honestly.
...I wonder what the Melta lance is doing in 3.0, currently it gets melta at 18" because of some bullshit about focusing lenses, will they let the Aux have a better multimelta in current edition?
>>96095212>compared to terminators that can teleport behind you and zap you with a twin disintegrator gun all gameThat combo costs 500+ points for 3 of them and they are likely going to lose 1 of 3 terminators the second they shoot. Not counting the interceptor they are going to eat and the possible return fire
>>96095223Primaris really do ruin everything, don't they
>>96095226Using them as a flex platform like that could be good actually; makes them less of a priority threat too so they might be able to inflict more damage just by virtue of other armoured units with heavier firepower existing. Not sure whatโs going on with the melta, but if itโs still 18โ and the aethons movement hasnโt changed it isnt worth it imo, just too dangerous.
>>96093442Apothecaries are pretty good for 30pts, 4+ to save a guy is nothing to sniff at. If primus medicae are in the pdf one will go right into my red butchers to combo with their EW(1). Unfortunately, thereโs not much point in putting several across all your units because you can only trigger so many Medic! reactions. I guess you could do something like bring the new command squad and play UM to use it twice for free in each shooting phase.
>>96094306He's just upset that they missed the Baxter Building. Twice.
>most of the people who play HH have consciously chosen to play it as a way to keep playing the more complex rules more similar to their preferred edition(s)
>GW does the shrimple not shrimplified thing they did to their current slop editions of 40k and AoS
>GW is surprised when HH players don't eat up the slop
Is that about right?
>>96095170If that's the guy that made a channel spin-off for HH it's pretty self explanatory on why.
>>96095212Does it being a disordered charge even matter anymore?
I saw that the interdiction cadre prime benefit also only let you use a disordered charge even though they are charging in from a fucking prepared ambush, but I never understood the difference between an disordered and regular charge.
>>96095180Great art, top marks no comments
>>96094921>in any case he's goodhe's shit. his monotone, disinterested delivery sucks the life out of anything he touches.
>>96095277no, when 40k and AoS shrimplified they cut out multiple checks and steps from the game. HH3.0 has added even more checks and steps. The problem with this edition is that units went missing and lost wargear options from the main rulebook. Are they in the pdf? Are they in the journals? Are they lost to the ether? We donโt know yet.
>>96095247That's their purpose.
>>96093265Logistical benefit is obviously the best unless you have your list already filled out, in which case I like paragon of battle or master sergeant.
>>96093429It has to be a terminator dude I believe.
>>96094570He doesn't have suppressors to be stealthy. He has suppressors so people know he doesn't give a fuck what the cunts in the Adeptus of Tobacco and Firearms say.
>>96093265the traitor one to make units malefic honestly seems a bit overpowered unless the unit comes stock with very high Ld and Cl.
>>96095277Anon if you don't like the new edition that's fine, but at least bitch about something that makes sense
The last thing you can say about 3.0 is that it's simpler than before
Half the complains are about them making everything more complicated than it needed to be
>>96094655I think it's on the reaction allotment page and not a special rule, since it's not a special rule but a trait.
>>96095271Check again, there's no more restrictions on apothecaries joining terminators, or any squad
No need for a primus
>>96095331Pretty sure red butchers have a rule that doesn't let other ICs join them unless they are also crazy
>>96095277I'd say it's primarily an aesthetic choice, as James and his fiendish workshop have turned space marines into some the most sloppified gen Z fortnite vibes imaginable
Seems to have missed the Terminator Centurion. Anyone got?
>>96093526Fuck man thats pretty.
>>96095102Looking at the UM? Everything seems legal (assuming boxnoughts and indomitus termies stay around)]
For the SOH:? Tartaros are currently illegal (assuming they really did lose all their weapons options and its not a fuckup). The champion(?) with terminator armor and two weapons is an illegal loadout.
>>96095277The rules are workable enough to keep people playing if we ignore everything surrounding them. The models, the armies, the fluff, the way the rules have been written down to avoid WAAC 40kids that jumped here interpreting them in a way that's not intended and so on.
>>96093513Yes, absolutely. They are now 100% one of the strongest legions in the game.
Even without going any deeper into it the rending(5+) power fundamentally breaks several weapon types (plasma and auto) since theyre balanced around the low breaching chance (that rending always triggers).
>>96095095Well a lot of the old Imperial Army artwork has them looking like Vostroyans, so I would say they wear some form of Imperial Army uniform.
Do you like the new challenge mechanics?
>>96095316NTA, but they did simplify some stuff that worked, and complicated other stuff needlessly.
Re-rolls? Get rid of 'em.
An entire re-play of the main three phases in each assault phase? Go for it.
Having a discrete Jump Pack or Terminator Armour Wargear with all it's rules listed clearly that can be added to existing units? Fuck that.
Discrete unit stat lines with different stats and sub-types or outright separate sheets? Fuck yeah!
>>96095335Ah sucks
Well probably no primus either then
>>96092840 (OP)If they reprinted the black books in leather without changing a single letter or picture(looking at you, inferno) then I might look at the team more favourably. 3.0 is fucked, there is no accepting it.
>>96093668>despite them losing rulesThey didnt? Myrmidon destructors come with volkites base.
>>96095345>Looking at the UM? Everything seems legalOnly thing I can spot is that suzerain can't take a banner anymore
>>96095339Very funny anon
>>96095335ah, I see that in their unit entry now. But unfortunately I donโt see a way to pay for a character to become crazy like last edition. They might have to fly solo.
>>96094295It will happen, but it will happen as part of specific mission rules rather than a universal change or option.
>>96095374Have to wait for your journal tactica for that :^)
>>96095365The ones in the picts are secutors, destructors are the ones with the big guns.
>>96095379Iโm going to become the ravening madman and join them myself
>>96095362if reprinted to meet demand, they would sell more copies of the original HH books than any other books available.
>>96094147You have to keep assigning damage to the same model until it dies per sequence
>>96095152Are you kidding, this shit is way more fun and actually works with other shit with vanguard
I canโt find phage(X) in the leaks. Does it kick in after the entire unit has finished firing or after the strike group has been resolved? Eg if I have one guy throw a rad grenade and the rest of the unit shoot their normal guns, can I resolve the rad grenade first, lower enemy toughness, and then start blasting with an effective +1 to wound?
>>96095152This stacks with vanguard and is more interesting. I guarantee if its special rules were just "fear(1), vanguard(1)" you would be complaining.
The current mechanic has you stack VP whenever you win a combat (any combat) and whenever you win a challenge (which ties into the new systems), but you have to protect it so you cant just yolo him at the enemy. Its simple enough (you just have to remember how many points he has following simple event triggers) and is a nice and fluffy way to represent the glory of the banner.
>>96094714SoH Moritats volley fire a unit without stun checks. That's pretty good, free shooting phases. Could bully scoring. Snap firing bolt pistols back at you is not going to do any real damage.
skorr
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I doubt anyone here reads WD, but they did a tale of 4 warlords thing for heresy a few months back
could someone maybe dig those up, and see which of those heresy units and armies inside those WDs are illegal?
>>96095190>>96095208Don't quote wiki articles at me, the skull represents the Emperors sacrifice and always has.
>>96095374>>96095335I mean... they have EW already. Staking another -1D on that for 30p would be bullshit
Also not that useful desu. There isn't that many D3 weapons that you can't just walk out of range from
>>96095434All moritats do that. As do all bikes.
>>96095472SoH ones do it at full BS
>>96095456You donโt want it for the D3, you want it for the D2 because the apothecary can reduce damage to 0. You can only make one roll per model in the reacting unit, but it would let you blank multiple lascannons or disintegrators. Would this be overpowered? I donโt know, but it would be fun.
>>96095477Anon, read the firestorm rules. They dont snapshot when they volley fire (they fire at full BS)
>>96095447This would be hilarious to see
>>96095416And I'm going to throw a character who can just take a power weapon or power fist in a challenge because?
>>96095472>>96095483Anon, when I say
>volley fire a unitI mean the unit he's attached to. Fire is full BS for the Moritat, not the unit.So SoH firing full BS compliments him. A praetorian jun squad with chargers can jump around getting two shooting phases a turn with 2+ armor and M12. Then firestorm allows the unit to cancel the sequence after volley so no stun checks.
>>96095434>>96095472>>96095477Angelโs tears seem like the real winners here. Jump out from behind medium terrain, casually throw out 80 S5 volkite shots. Maybe a little phase(T) to start off the party too if youโre so inclined.
Vanguard(3) lets you not feel bad about dying after they do it because theyโll have earned so many VP. And if they do survive the strike back you can use a master of signals to swap them over to line(1) to score the objective they just cleared.
>>96095506VP, also because many legions have powerful "power weapon" replacements. The NL headsmans axe for example.
The herald is a reasonable fighter as far as centurions go, and centurions (or even optae) will be commonplace due to the new detachment systems. Then you have master Sgts and the like too.
>>96095521Like the characters that are better at fighting than a centurion are what? Praetors, special characters, terminator centurions (and that ones a slight one, since cata armor gives -1 for challenges and tartaros is just +1W on him)? If you want him to be better you can even paragon of battle him to have WS6 5A.
>>96095519Indeed. Once we get normal destroyers back(the only unit that I can realistically guarantee is in Legacies) they will like it.
>>96095373There's a (generic) Centurion in Terminator Armour - isn't there?
>>96095531Champions are better fighters than vanilla centurions no?
>>96095544"yes"
They have better WS (and maybe more attacks? Dont remember) but theyre stuck with a paragon blade which I dont think is very good. Maybe specifically for duelling low wound count models like centurions? But the damage 1 hurts.
But I could be wrong, maybe im really underestimating how lethal a paragon blade can be.
have the new rapier rules been leaked yet or no? want to know if they exist before i spend my time searching old threads.
>>96095507I love that SoH have gone back to >shoot you in the face point blank instead of whatever nonsense they were supposed to be in second edition.
>>96095557Yes.
Rapiers are now t6 and ranged attacks are always resolved against them first (wound rolls are always vs t6 and damage goes to the rapiers first).
In melee its the other way round.
40pts naked (with bolters), can upgrade to other weapons still. Max unit size of 4. Phosphex is still locked to siege breaker.
They still seem pretty good, bolters might be incredible cost effective now.
>>96095447I've got the Fate of Barbarus stuff.
Looking over it:
- RG seem fine (But also, were barely customised beyond chain bayonets on the tacticals
- SW: Grey stalkers are gone, so they're illegal, Jorlund hunters we don't know, the tartaros squad has power fists and chainfists, which is illegal, spartan has a flare shield, which ain't a thing.
- DA: Again, not very customised, so looks fine?
- SoH: Esoterist has power weapon and volkite charger, which is illegal, otherwise fine.
- IW: PA Warsmith, which is illegal, Mortificator, which is gone, Forge Lord, which is gone.
- DG: Walking vets with power weapons, which are illegal, rad grenades on the tacs, which I think is gone, Mortus poisoners, which are gone, flare shield on spartan (gone, but no modelled parts, so eh) Apothecary with combi-flamer, which is illegal.
>>96095416shouldve been the rules for the champion
doesn't make sense to me that in an edition that's all about challenges, the challenge character doesn't have special rules for it
"yeah but he has WS6"
that's not a special rule
every time you see a banner bearer in the lore they're at the back being defended by the rest of their squad, motivating them
right now their leadership bonus is meh at best
>>96095579Dont champions still have the whole "have to challenge people" thing?
>>96095553Paragon blades should have been D2
It's retarded that they can't make a weapon unique to the best fighter in a chapter/legion better than basic TH
Hitting first doesn't mean a lot when you do so little damage
>>96095591>Paragon blades should have been D2So what, just have it be the best weapon 99% of the time? I guess that works but it feels a bit boring.
>Hitting first doesn't mean a lot when you do so little damageYou can make it d2 with finishing strike, which might be good.
2d6 pick lowest is just -1 or something on average, so you are still favored to go before someone with a fist or hammer, so you go to potentially 6A D2 S+2, which seems decently likely to kill a centurion (or even an AA praetor) before they get to swing.
>>96095569Can Heavy Bolters do much this ed?
Why did they go out of their way to make plasma cannons shittier than other plasma?
You are unlikely to cover more than 2 models with a small template so they are pretty in line with plasmaguns. For a more expensive weapon that needs to be stationary to get S7 I think +12" shoulnd't require a massive downgrade like getting hit a third of the time you shoot...
>>96095585yeah but that's not a special rule to make it better at challenges
that's just a rule to force it to fight one
used to be it'd give the unit fearless during a challenge
It's no longer "I want a champion so that he can motivate the squad"
it's "I guess I take a champion if I want a challenge mook"
>>96095618They dont have heavy bolters, they have a gravis heavy bolter battery. Which is 8 shots S5 Ap4, but more importantly suppressive(2). For 40pts it seems like a good weapon, puts out a lot of dakka (relatively) and has a good chance to force snapshots from the enemy.
>>96095626>It's no longer "I want a champion so that he can motivate the squad"That wasnt it either, it was "I want a champion so I can have a WS6 thunderhammer cheaply"
The champions niche is killing centurions, something hes still going to do pretty well.
>>96095619See, that seems like an actual typo. Fucker either way.
>>96095640why do i want to kill centurions when centurions don't do anything anymore
>>96095049Winner tops is a houserule for wargaming wherein the winner is referred to as the "top" and the loser is referred to as the "bottom." Upon concluding the game, the winner and loser shall seek out a private area, preferably the dwelling room of either of them. Upon locking the entrance, the loser shall engage in a humiliation ritual as "punishment" for losing the game, wherein he shall remove his garments and make himself submissive to the winner of the game. The winner shall then lubricate the anus of the loser before inserting his penis into said orifice and initiating homosexual intercourse. Condoms are of course, not allowed, as the nature of the humiliation ritual requires the winner to deposit his seed inside of the loser, or "bottom." If the loser refuses to engage in this ritual after losing a game but having already agreed to "winner tops" rules prior to the start of the game, then he forfeits his honor and may never play a game again.
>>96095664Centurions never did anything? Youre thinking of consuls.
Centurions are also moderately expensive melee elites, you want to kill them because the alternative is "they do well in melee combat against you".
>>96095557phosphex looks good this edition, if that influences you at all
>>96095668a champion would also be doing more damage hitting into the squad
so we're back at the beginning
why do I take the character that is forced to take a challenge when i'd rather have him not fight in a challenge?
>>96095573>Grey stalkers are goneI mean Slayers can still take bolters so they're not really gone
>>96095640You can take a centurion and give it +1WS, BS and A. And still give it a TH. Hell put it on terminator armor for +1T and a 4++ too
>>96095618Heavy bolter rapiers have always been good
Does anyone have the Slow and Purposeful rule?
>>96095692Stalkers could take special weapons in the squad
>>96095722It's ITT, just saw it
P
>>96095692NTA and not a space wolf player but as far as i can tell the main difference in 2.0 was starting with chainswords and that they could take a special weapon or combi weapon per 5 guys
>>96095607>paragon blades should be the best weapon 99% of the time?unironically yes. they are legendary relic weapons of unparalleled craftsmanship, etc, etc.
and they should be rare / unavailable for the most part.
>>96095607>So what, just have it be the best weapon 99% of the time?Maybe if we remembered there are angles other than Strength and AP that can factor in, we'd have options.
But this is GW. We can't have nice things.
>>96095666>satanic trips for gay homebrew trollingpoetry
>>96095730>>96095728Yeah I suppose you're missing the 2-4 special weapons
But I can still run slayers as stalkers minus that if I wanted so I'm not too bothered
>>96095553Cents have what, 3 wounds? It's not hard to deplete 3 wounds with a paragon blade if you give your champion paragon of battle and make him WS7. at that point He'll beat anything but a Praetor or a primarch in a challenge hammer or no hammer.
Do red butchers beat every other unique terminator unit in a punch up? Breaching(4+) and S5 means theyโre effectively AP2 against T5, and EW(1) makes PF TH and any bespoke legion weapons like DA swords 50% less effective.
>>96095801Centurions are 4W now
WS6 or 7 make no difference against WS5
Centurions can also have Paragon of Battle, which just makes them cheaper champions
>>96095808EW on terminators is wild, being hit on 3s doesn't matter as much now and attacking first since their axes aren't low I is also fantastic
>>96095808Butchers flip the damage calculus on its head, every other terminator you want to fight with thunderhammers or powerfists but butchers laugh that shit off. Maybe dreadnoughts would be good against butchers? Damage 3 melee still kills them dead and they have that rule which makes hitting them easy.
>>96095747>Maybe if we remembered there are angles other than Strength and AP that can factor inWhat, like damage? That other angle which has been introduced now to add to weapon granularity.
>>96095840Centurions are 3w, terminator centurions are 4w
>>96095808Pretty sure justaerin still crush them. Hitting on 3s and having more attacks will do that.
Can anyone post the Breacher rules? Hereโs a meduson immortal as thanks.
>>96095840>Centurions are 4W nowThats a weird change.
>WS6 or 7 make no difference against WS5You take Paragon so even paragon Cents still hit you on 5s.
>Centurions can also have Paragon of Battle, which just makes them cheaper championsThey max out at 6s, Champions get to 7.
>>96092956Added a bit more since, but TLDR all marines must hang.
>>96094477>>96094448Rip bolt pistol Moritat. They could've made Destroyer pistols special, and didn't. At best they'll be in a war Journal DLC. But this is me, coping
>>96095893Based, transhumans were a fucking mistake.
>>96092408Can I ask you what paints/Pigments you used for your bases?
>>96095808The issue is that their actual damage output (chainfist asides) is not very impressive.
3A, 4 on the charge, means 2 hits and then 1 wound (wounding on a 4+) going into a 4++, so for every four red butchers they will kill one terminator (on the charge)
In return something like firedrakes has 3 attacks hitting on 3s (2 hits) wounding on 2s (2 wounds or there abouts) going into a 4++ (for one unsaved hit dealing one wound). So they kill one butcher per two of theirs attacking.
Butchers are tough, they take a lot of killing and will resist a lot of the most common anti terminator weapons (like lascannons). Theyre not good at KILLING terminators. They and deathshroud seem more designed to kill regular troops while shrugging off lascannons/autocannons/heavy plasma (since it takes like 6/7 lascannon shots to kill one)
>>96095808I'd say lerneans beat them, considering they hit and wound better, rend worse, have the same number of attacks, are harder to charge, and can shoot
>>96095906>DestroyerThe what now?
>>96094728So, if a Vanguard kills a unit on an objective, or makes it fall back in melee, you score
If a Vanguard shoots and the unit falls back, they don't score? Booo
Anons, the mech imgur is missing some stuff, anyone got pictures with the
>Arcana benefice and prime benefit for myrmidax, archimandrite, macrotek, and malagra
>the third page of war gear, with shock ram, servo arm, and rad furnace
>second page of scoria's rules
>mechanicum specific special Rules
>>96094867Allied detachments have no Praetor slot, not Prime to Special Assign one
>>96095999Seems like Vanguard shooting really needs to drop the last dude to be effective.
Makes Veletarii with chargers a bit less useful than I thought they would be, unless volley fire counts towards combat resolution in melee?
>>96095075Vostroya dresses like that in 40k because they got given all the Imperial Army leftover uniforms. A trillion units of all the uniforms for the war they skipped.
Their debt will have been repaid when the last one has been blooded by a firstborn
>>96095271Do Apothecaries do nothing unless you use the reaction?
>>96096013Allied detachments have 2 HQs, 1 of them in Prime
>>96096057Their narthecium let's you apply a -2 to status recovery checks at end of turn if you pass a medic roll (a 4+)
>>96096057They help with statusโ which can be useful if your legion doesnโt have a good way to deal with them. The reaction fucking sucks since youโre wasting a reaction on a 1/2 chance to remove 1 wound max lmao
>>96092840 (OP)I know a lot of liber and rulebook stuff is out there, but did the Journal leak at all?
>>96095859Number of attacks. That thing we made a whole stat for. The one we don't use.
And Damage was the decider previously too. ID or Brutal were king.
>>96096091itโs max one wound per model, not max one wound total right?
>>96096115I think the contents page and some background pages are out there
>>96095690Not even Vanguard. Yeah they should have the Herald rule instead. And/or be like Phalanx Warders, who get to use their reaction for free with some restrictions.
And Paragons should be D2. They are S5, a terminator can tank that half the time.
What would you give Heralds then, to compensate?
>>96096128Huh, would have thought it would have leaked by now. I don't expect it to fix the game but I do want to know what units it has in it.
>>96096139It leaked a while ago. We already knew the units too since they showed us the index. They were reported a dozen times across the previous threads.
>>96095801You shouldn't need to give him Paragon, though
>>96096122>. The one we don't use.Except they do. Twin LC give +2A, a chainfist drops you an attack. Forge crafted thunder hammers give you attacks, some weapons set your attacks to a defined value like 1. It is very much a system that is used.
>ID or Brutal were king.ID is explicitly not "damage", an ID proc does not care how many wounds you have, it does all of them unless youre immune.
>>96096137Ld10 bubble, line (1), keep it as it was, simple as
But of course ld10 means chaplains are now useless since they removed rerolls and didn't think they should replace them with anything
Idk, maybe you could make the chaplain give the squad deflagrate?
>>96096115Yes, the master of descent and command squad are from the journal iirc
Whirlwind hyperios too
>>96096115>>96096128>>96096139We've seen Master of Descent. Centurion stats, jump pack, his squad can DS turn 1, he auto-passes DS Reserve checks for you. 120pts? Can't recall.
>>96095808Deathshroud have EW1 too, but their scythes hold them back
>>96096159Chaplains grant Cool 10 to their unit, right? That's Cool 11 if said unit is Heavy subtype
>>96096052You're gonna love dropping only one per turn
>>96096123Yeah it's one wound on every model in the unit
>>96096158>Twin LC give +2AAlready had that.
>some weapons set your attacks to a defined value like 1Already had that too.
>a chainfist drops you an attack.>Forge crafted thunder hammers give you attacksThese are the only two places in the whole game I've seen it used in a way it wasn't before. In 2.0, that wouldn't be worth a special rule, let alone a whole fucking stat.
>>96096175Their scythes are about as good as the butcher axes.
>>96096180only if the whole unit is Heavy
chaplain can take neither terminator armor nor a boarding shield and thus cannot become heavy
>>96096115We've seen the three units and the mission, IIRC.
>>96095946>have the same number of attacksWild that Butchers lost an attack, as they were 5A on the charge. They should be A3 base
>>96096192>Already had that too.Except we didnt have the granularity, we do now. Demon angron and fulgrims slam attacks drop their attacks to a set (non 1) value. Corax makes four attacks with his whip. Pyromancers make d6+3 attacks with their melee power.
>These are the only two places in the whole game I've seen it used in a way it wasn't beforeThey arent, theyre just examples raised that you clearly didnt know about.
>In 2.0, that wouldn't be worth a special rule, let alone a whole fucking stat.2.0 had brutal, a special rule present on a grand total of like 3 weapons.
>>96096219>2.0 had brutal, a special rule present on a grand total of like 3 weapons.And somehow that required a damage stat to be added in 3rd.
>>96096180does this make chaplains actually useful for SoH so they can double shoot at close range and have a better chance to pass any stun check if they then donโt make combat
>>96096216everyone lost the +1A on the charge this edition. they do fine work with 4
>>96096228Yes. What are you planning to volley fire with, anon? It's only assault guns
>>96096123Yes but afaik youโd basically go โ5 tacticals die from 5 unsaved d1 attacks, I have to use my reaction to roll a d6 per dead model. On a 4+ they donโt dieโ which leads to some very weird scenarios on higher wound minis
>>96096235volkite chargers/serpentas, mostly. or anything on terminator squads, the saturnine plasma guns look pretty good when they can double shoot
>>96096223Yes, and the damage stat is an unambiguously good thing.
Although the real culprits for "we need damage" are dreads and ruinstorm sovereigns/behemoths (and to a lesser extent automata).
The binary system of "one wound or dead" created restrictive weapon design space and meant that models with a non-standard statline were often insanely difficult to kill. Damage removes those issues. It also interacts with hull points in a much better way (or rather, at all) which allows for "single fire big shot guns" to actually be impactful, rather than needing to have multiple shots.
>>96096196Butcher axes are axes with +1A and +1 to Breach
Scythes are axes with +2A conditional (squad outnumbered). It's fine only when attacking tactical- whoops, the alchem flamer killed enough so that you no longer are outnumbered
>>96096180Chaplain stats are weird cause reviews have mentioned hatred in their crozius so they may not be as awful on launch
>>96096197>only if the whole unit is HeavyNoooo. Shield only needs a majority, tell me Heavy is the same
>>96096235Assault includes basically all pistols too.
>>96096264Theyre already not awful desu. Theyre a solid budget beater with high mental stats. Granting hatred would be nice (especially since hatred isnt the game breaker it was before) but theyre already situationally worth it.
>>96096263Its a better weapon for killing hordes of low tier power armor, which is the ideal target for both deathshroud and red butchers. Despite their durability neither of these units wants a slugging match with elite power fist/thunder hammer enemies.
"but what if you dont outnumber them" then you dont really need the help do you? Youre hitting on 3s killing on 2s into power armor.
Does FNP need to be rolled per damage, or per wound/attack in 3.0?
>>96096234No, anon. Every terminator *won* an attack this edition. Regular termies did, legion specific termies did. The only ones who didn't are:
>Phoenix termiesSorta. Remained 2A when even regular termies are 3A, because they are forced to use their blade works rule (not using it at all was better)
>Deathshroud Sidegrade, as they're now affordable
>ButchersI guess they do work with 4A? Idk
>>96096219>2.0 had brutal, a special rule present on a grand total of like 3 weapons.Well, I'm not the best at maths, but let's check:
Demolisher Cannon
Thunderhawk Cannon
Gravis Power Fists
Thunder Hammers
Leviathan Siege Claws
Graviton Maul
Tainted Claw
Blade of Perdition
Axe of Perdition
Spear of Perdition
Maul of Perdition
Radium Pistol
Radium Carbine
Siege Wrecker
Siege Claw
Iliastus Accelerator Cannon
Iliastus Accelerator Culverin
Vanquisher Battle Cannon
Hellhammer Cannon
That's 19, which is a little bit more than 3. I sure hope no legion-specific units or named characters also have it...
Golden Keshig Lances
Talon of Perdition
Sword of Balenight
Forgebreaker
Hand of Dominion
Glory Aeterna
Forgebreaker Desecrated
Gravis Force Blade
Worldbreaker
Illuminarium
Anaktis Blade
The Instrument
Demo Charge
Libertas
Extinctor power claw
Tians'han
Hammerhand
The Liberator
Defiant
Another 19... that's 38... well, there's a 3 in there.
>>96096298>Regular termies didRegular termies are still 2A.
>>96096294Per unsaved wound
>>96096257>Damage is goodNo not really it was not needed, they just needed to change brutal problem solved.
>It's created restrictive weapon designNo GWs lack of creativity did that.
Gw could have made breaching as
Breaching(x/y) where a wound roll of x gives the ap of y allowing a lot of variance on weapons across the board.
Gw is just shit at making rules. Damage is a stat not needed because gw handles it BADLY every time see 40k it combined with rending AP system created a arms race that lead to 9th.
>>96096321Brutal should have been
Brutal(x) if a model suffers a wound from a weapon with this rule, if they fail the save for it, they suffer x wounds inflected to them.
Making brutal a rule that multiplied the saves you needed to make was a massive fucking mistake change that and brutal is fucking fine.
>>96096285>"but what if you dont outnumber them" then you dont really need the help do you?I heavily disagree. Using a Retinue to kill troops and other such pushovers is a massive waste. Especially for the Death Guard, whose own troops are top tier and can be used for that
Also it's so weird that 5 Deathshroud do 15 attacks, but 4 do 16. "I needed you to punch me to unlock my power" is some anime thing (and that's Raven guard's)
It is a pity Deathshroud just aren't true Terminator Praetorians, and they should be relegated to mowing grass and avoiding Real terminator elites
>>96096348>Brutal should have been>Brutal(x) if a model suffers a wound from a weapon with this rule, if they fail the save for it, they suffer x wounds inflected to them.Motherfucker that is literally just damage values again.
>>96096366>4 do 16Oh wait, Reaping 2. Five do 15, but Four may to 20 if outnumbered. What the fuck lmao
>>96096285I'm with
>>96096366On this matter. Tbh the whole
>Well this super expensive unit is great at killing MEQIs such a non-sequitor, because wanna know what else is great at killing MEQ? Like fucking everything. A basic bitch unit on terminators with power weapons will mog meq. If your elite retinue is not good at mogging AT LEAST teq units not even elite terminators (ws5) just like good at killing ws4 terminators they kinda suck.
>>96096348>No not really it was not neededYes anon, dreads taking 6/7 lascannons to kill was totally good. It should take half a dozen meltaguns to the face to bring one down.
No you fucking retard, damage was absolutely needed. Brutal exists as an early attempt at it, to represent weapons with singularly powerful attacks which are better suited to taking out multiple wound models that are NOT susceptible to being instantly killed. Brutal is just not very good, being a shittier version of WHFB's multiple wounds(X) rule (design wise).
>Gw could have made breaching as >Breaching(x/y)It exists, its called immaterial blades. It does not at all solve the issues created by arbitrary instant death thresholds which will dominate 99% of the models in the game and leave a 1% immune to everything as a result.
Breaching(X/Y) is also largely pointless in a system with only two relevant armor values, 3+ and 2+.
>Damage is a stat not needed because gw handles it BADLY every timeWhich is why it works well here, clearly.
>Brutal(x) if a model suffers a wound from a weapon with this rule, if they fail the save for it, they suffer x wounds inflected to them.That only fixes half the issues with brutal. The other half being "brutal creates a feast or famine scenario where weapons with the rule are many times better than those without".
>>96096348>No not really it was not needed, they just needed to change brutal problem solved.And add it to a ton of other weapons that have more than D1 now
Gee it's almost like that's what they did without needing another special rule
>>96096348>>96096372Twin Linked should have turned any hits into two hits.
>>96096348>Brutal should have been>Brutal(x) if a model suffers a wound from a weapon with this rule, if they fail the save for it, they suffer x wounds inflected to them.What is damage, alex?
>>96096372Except it's a rule sprinkled through our only on weapons that need it. For example las canon should not have brutal nor should it have brutal if you stand still
Atop that it should also be with the idea that ID is still in the game, which will effect it, meaning that weapons like th fists will be really good against thing that are t5+ while being pretty much a wash on T4 so that eya we don't get this situation where it's TH or bust because TH effectively doubles the number of saves that needs to be made.
>>96096385>It exists, its called immaterial blades.It's not, actually. Just as breaching sets the result (AP2) but allows for movement on the odds (3+-6+), Immaterial blades sets the odds (always on a 6) but varies the result (AP+1).
I believe anon wants a rule that scales on both.
>>96096372NTA, but the problem with damage values is that GW always overdoes them.
3.0 has waaaay to much access to D2+
>>96096407>believe anon wants a rule that scales on both.Correct
Breaching(x/y) would give you 2 levers to work with vs 1.
You could see weapons like say heavy flamers now get a rule like breaching(6/3)
Or even chain weapons could get that rule
Auto canons could have breaching(4/3)
It opens up a lot more possibilities with our needing to go about dicking with damage profiles.
>>96096381>A basic bitch unit on terminators with power weapons will mog meqA basic bitch terminator unit with power weapons will NOT kill meq in a resonable manner, because they have two attacks each hitting on 4s. Even if they take power mauls thats still at most a marine dead per guy.
Deathshroud have a comparable points cost to those regular terminators (theyre what, 40ppm?) and will kill many more marines than that even without reaping. While also being incredibly resistant to displacement by the sort of heavy fire which would normally be good at removing terminators. This makes them an excellent area denial unit, capable of holding a point and denying it to the enemy.
>>96096366Is it a shame? Maybe, but it is unfortunately their lot. They have two mechanical identities, being difficult to kill and being bad at killing terminators while being good into power armor. This leaves them with only so many options.
Theyre a durable brick wall which you set in the path of your enemies mass infantry to hold them there indefinetly and kill scores while they do it. Theyre not a unit that wants to slug it out with the enemy thunder hammer terminators.
>>96096381Not to mention they already have Grave Wardens for killing MEQ, with their deathcloud and poison guns
>>96096441Grave wardens also have power fists for killing terminators.
>>96096439Yeah while said MEQ do fuck all against them in response also just slap like 1 dude with a pair of lightening claws and watch him blender a unit
Meq get fucked by basic terminators because now those MEQ are all tied up.
>>96096366>is some anime thing (and that's Raven guard's)Can we swap our LA for the ability to use Truck-kun to isekai a single enemy model?
>>96096366There always will be a "weakest into fellow unique termis". Not all legions used termis to hunt big things, some used them to bully mid tier and lower enemies in high volume. It doesn't translate as well to table top unfortunately.
>>96096439Why the fuck would you want to walk death shroud into marines? That is such a fucking waste of points.
I mean in the name of cool yeah watching them reap marines is cool but effective? It's like driving a nail with a sledge hammer I guess.
heavy
md5: fdb8560fdb35da86b0f9875ee9a2bc7e
๐
>LA pics sorted
litter.catbox.moe/738illeq5ox1gi64.rar
i've found something else as well later
>>96096456>i've found something else as well laterwell don't be a tease, tell us.
>>96096180Oh dude don't worry you can easily make that Chaplin heavy just give him a boarding shield from his war gear opti-.....oh....
>>96096462>tell us.the same thing in a different format, if you catch my drift
>>96096418And even then 3.0 is restrained as fuck compared to when 40k and AoS got damage.
>>96096418>3.0 has waaaay to much access to D2+No it doesent.
D2, which is the vast majority of weapons with multiple damage, is found generally on the weapons which would have previously been instant death. Power fists, lascannons, missiles.
D3, which is incredibly rare, is generally found on the top end of anti-tank guns and the heavy ordanance. Laser destroyers, demolisher cannons, melta.
There are some weapons that are D2 which would not have been instant death previously (autocannons), but there are also weapons which are not D2 or only conditional D2 which would previously be instant death (lascannons, missiles)
In melee D3 is basically nonexistent outside of challenges, primarchs, and dreadnoughts. The only regular marine units that have it are saturnines, who are so bad in melee it basically doesent matter, and they trade the usual strength of power fists for it.
D3 is also, unlike what you are implying, not problematic to the game. Its not some linearly scaling thing where D3 is just always better than D2, because in most circumstances the two are identical. Regular marine infantry only have two wounds. D3 plus exists so weapons can be more effective into tanks and/or monstrous creatures.
You also dont seem to be cognizant of the lack of rerolls, which have reduced the general lethality of the game
>>96096452>Why the fuck would you want to walk death shroud into marines?Because theyre good at killing power armor safely? Marines or ideally vets if you can catch them, are the most optimal target for deathshroud. Numerous power armor bodies.
You throw them onto a point to clear the enemy out and then sit there denying it to the enemy forever unless they commit a gross overkill worth of firepower to the task.
>>96096418>3.0 has waaaay to much access to D2+Fucking where?
There's autocannons with D2 and that's the only thing I can think of that didn't ID you before and/or had brutal
And they are pretty fucking expensive because of it
>>96096485No I don't catch your drift
>>96096511>reduced the general lethality of the gameYou had me until this.
>>96096503For now. You're on the treadmill, and the speed only goes up.
>>96096439>theyre what, 40ppm?It's 220 for 5 Deathshroud. It's 210 for 7 other regular terminators.
Even armed with power swords, 7 terminators kill ~7 tacticals (I love combi bolters). This might make those 20 Tacticals (200 pts) run.
Regular Terminators are already enough, and using a Retinue-class unit for troop hunting is wasteful.
Do knights still have their stomp attacks? I want to know if my brass scorpion still gets his free d3+3 s9 ap2 attacks
Also please post the brass scorpion stats if they've been leaked
Is it safe? Is it's ws5 alright?
>>96096444They have the power fists and 3A, but not the WS5. Compare them to actual elite terminators and the difference will hit you in the face.
>>96096535Nta but not having shred on every chainsword and chaplain not rerolling all hits for the units is definitely noticeable.
Terminators are a lot resilient in melee now and even more at range agianst small arms
Dreads have been kneecapped hard too
HSS are a lot more expensive
There's not a lot that has become significantly better aside from tacticals at certain ranges
Some local guy wants to start up a 3.0 slow grow league at 500 pts.
custom ruleset in our disc group needs collating and reformatting, how far should we go to avoid stepping on GWs toesโข? Looking to use public use artwork and a custom template so it's mostly terminology, rules wording, names and events. Probably wouldn't be an issue at our scale of play but if someone malicious reported it or it ever did take off what are the minimum safeguards for copyright standards?
>>96096446Anon that's your gambit.
Honestly I might consider players choose their Legion Trait from among three options: 1.0, 2.0, and current 3.0.
>>96096511the biggest increase to the lethality of the game is the removal of artificer armor. nothing else comes close.
Anyone has a unit profile template to write custom units like this?
>>96096579If you donโt make any money off of it in any way then you can do whatever you want.
>>96096564>Regular Terminators are already enough, and using a Retinue-class unit for troop hunting is wasteful.NTA, disagree if it wins you the game. Scoop up the enemy Tacticals, plant yours behind the shroud to be a buffer to what what wants to punch tacticals. Using a Primarch to hunt scoring isn't beneath them. Nothing that wins you the game is beneath any unit when used at the right time. Don't fall into hyperbole where any one player can only use one tactic for any given unit. Shroud can make for a great speed bump if it means farming VP just as well as they can help beat up elites.
>>96096600Ask the guy on Reddit
>See someone make something>Go somewhere else to ask how they made it
>>96096600You can see this in word or excel in 5 minutes.
>>96096533Archaeotech Pistols
A whole bunch of Autocannons
Gravis Bolt Cannon
Combi-greande Launcher (Krak)
Flamestorm Cannon
Gravis Plasma Cannon
Croizus Arcanum
Disintegrator Pistols are now far, far more available
Shred and Critical hits can now push weapons up to D2, which includes every single chain weapon, and potentially every single gun with the new BS chart.
It's a lot.
>>96096511>You also dont seem to be cognizant of the lack of rerolls, which have reduced the general lethality of the game2.0: "Hey, I know you're hitting on a 2, but if you get a 1, you re-roll it, meaning you got from a hit 5/6 of the time to 35/36 of the time."
3.0: "Hey, if you roll a 6 on a chainsword, we double the damage. Have Fun."
>>96096535All rerolls are gone anon. The extra shots some weapons got to compensate for it are not enough to actually make up for the difference.
Take a laser destroyer:
In 2.0 its 2 shots (twin linked) S9 Ap1 (ordnance)
In 3.0 its 2 shots S10 Ap2 (not that it matters now) heavy D. Stronger right? Except it isnt, because the potential for higher damage (which doesent matter into most targets) is not enough to offeset the damage losses for the reduction in accuracy. You went from hitting 8/9 times to hitting only 2/3 times with the same gun.
Multi meltas are now S9(potentially) D3, they also lost twin linked.
In melee shred is now an entirely different rule. While it does make a lot of weapons now better into 2w units it also makes many weapons now worse at dealing with regular power armor. (and Shred now does nothing in fights between 1w units)
Take lightning claws (not that they have shred now)
6 LC attacks in 2.0, hitting on 3s, is 3 dead marines. 6*2/3*3/4
6 LC attacks in 3.0m hitting on 3s, is 6*1/6+6*1/2*1/2 dead marines. Or 2.5.
Hatred, an absolutely insane damage steroid from 2.0 (essentially 50% extra damage a lot of the time) is now gone, replaced with +1 to wound (in every round, not just the first).
Preferred enemy is gone.
Master crafted is gone.
Brutal is gone.
Instant death is gone.
Getting damage onto the enemy is now harder for most units. While most (not all) melee units gained an attack, between the loss of charging attacks and 2 weapon fighting this can be seen as a net neutral thing, likewise for shooting.
SOME units are going to be less durable, in particular dreads, but in general things should be dying less not more, even with the fact that some weapons can deal 2w when they couldnt before.
>>96096599Okay thats fair. But AA tanking was scummy anyways.
>>96096600Busted as fuck, who designed this?
>>96096612I asked the guy but he hasn't answered.
>>96096579If GW cared you are fucked but we are lucky that they don't.
>>96096451>Not all legions used termis to hunt big thingsDeathshroud are literally hand picked from across a hundred thousand by Mortarion himself. He doesn't go "hmmm yeah this guy can KILL TACTICALS" lmao
>>96096523>Because theyre good at killing power armor safely?The problem is that they should be good at fighting other termies. They are not. They should be. It is wrong that they are not (which they should).
>Yeah but they're notBut. They. Should. Be.
>Vets>Numerous10 vets do not outnumber even 5 Deathshroud, let alone the 12 you can bring
>You throw them onto a point to clear the enemy out and then sit there denying it to the enemy forever unless they commit a gross overkill worth of firepower to the task"A single Cataphractii Praetorian squad" is not gross overkill. In fact it is the expected, reasonable and adequate force to engage a hard point like that.
Deathshroud are not for holding a point. They can capture one (like eeeevery terminator can), but unlike regular terminators, they can't hold it because they have flamers instead of 4-shot bolters
>>96096535Lascannons are markedly worse at killing tanks now than they used to be.
It used to be 10 HSS lascannons firing into say, the front armour of a russ (AV14) would make 10 shots, score about 7 hits, get 2 glance/pens on the first shot then reroll thanks to sunder for another 1~2 hits and comfortably kill the russ on average rolls.
Now stationary lascannons make the same 10 shots, score the same 7 hits but usually only pen twice. Leaving the Russ operating on 2 HP.
The lascannons like, the most common anti tank gun in the game and its noticeably worse than it used to be at killing tanks. It's better against tactical marines now since it can move and still shooting them but better doesn't mean its a good use of your time.
At the very least vehicles are tougher now against most common anti tank guns other than massed melta at half range.
>>96096614Man, so tempted to get a bunch of them.
>>96096579>what are the minimum safeguards for copyright standards?Don't tie your discord account to your main email, silly. Let GW sue hitlercoxx1488@gmail.com for all you care
>>96096630It's really not. Half those weapons are on dreads that hit less now or on specific characters
A bunch of the others have no AP. The flamestorm cannon lost torrent and have no ap
Critical hits is very limited and shred goes on weapons that have no ap as well and most of the time you don't want fighting models where it matters
Chainswords attacking terminators went from wounding 75% of the time to losing the charge attack and wounding 33%. Them being D2 1 out of every 6 to wound rolls does not compensate at all
>>96096614Can't believe the legions stole our Tarantulas. Can't have shit around Saturn.
Shield trait only gives you the Shieldwall! reaction?
>>96096641>2.0: "Hey, I know you're hitting on a 2, but if you get a 1, you re-roll it, meaning you got from a hit 5/6 of the time to 35/36 of the time."Thanks for bringing that up, I totally forgot to mention that heavy BS5 shooting is basically gone now thanks to the nerf to dreads. So you dont have super accurate heavy weapons roaming around in every game.
>3.0: "Hey, if you roll a 6 on a chainsword, we double the damage. Have Fun."Dealing 2x damage on a 6 is a smaller damage increase than rerolling failed wound rolls.
A chainsword hit into a veteran in 2.0 does 1*3/4*1/3*1 damage (0.25)
A chainsword hit into a veteran in 3.0 does 1*1/6*1/3*2+1*1/3*1/3*1 damage (0.222222....)
And thats the best case scenario for chainswords (well, the actual best case scenario for the new chainswords would be some sort of t6 zero save unit I guess, but even there theyre going to barely outperform old shred). Into normal 1w marines (which are what chainswords will normally attack) its a flat 50% damage reduction since the multiple wound aspect literally doesent matter.
>>96096630You can count the number of Native BS6+ units in the game on your fingers anon.
>>96096702Yes. The +1 toughness also means shit in a edition where instant death no longer exists. It's useless.
>>96096456I love how you went through the effort of starting every file in a folder with a number but windows is actually legit too retarded to parse it, auto sorting it different for every file and when opening it in photos mixing the order again so it sometimes starts you in the middle or end so I can't just read it in order.
>>96093554To slowly crush the "testicles" of the rancid reeking numale poofter who first proposed femstodes in a hydraulic vice and feed the resulting goo to anyone who was involved in okaying them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SihEAMIJeh8
I still hate you circle and I won't play your hacked together favoritism you call an edition
>>96096690>and shred goes on weapons that have no ap as wellThats not quite true. Theres now a not insignificant number of "terranic greatsword at home" weapons like carsoran power axes and master crafted power axes (the IH ones) which have a decent shred number on top of their breaching or whatever to let them punch at 2w 2+ armor (essentially like what terranic greatswords used to do/still do). Chainglaives too althiough theyre only 6+.
Anyone got an idea on how to price a 4k point army out if I want to sell it? My traitor BA got got molested and I was already planning on selling it during 2.0.
List:
Inferno Pistol Moritat
Praevian
JP Hammer Praetor
5 Crimson Paladins
Boxnought with Fist and Plasma
2 unpainted BA contemptors
5 converted Dawnbreakers
10 veterans with claw
MK5 apoth
20 despoilers
2x 10 Tartaros w/ sgt Hammer, 5 dual LC, 5 power fists
5 jetbikes
5 seekers
Leviathan dread
Kytan daemon engine
Some of the stuff ainโt pictured but the general painting quality is consistent I think. Drop pods got sold a while ago.
>>96096614what HBs do tarantulas have?
>>96096702Yes. +1 toughness means a lot in the edition where bolters shoot twice across their full range. I love it.
Wish Breachers (and similar special units) could use it with the same provisions Phalanx Warders can (free but locks you in place)
>>96096719oh god breacher are really shit.
>>96096737>Wish Breachers (and similar special units) could use it with the same provisions Phalanx Warders can (free but locks you in place)I think phalanx warders should have some special things going for them desu. And the posterboy unit for the reaction doing it for free just feels wrong.
>>96093738>>96093782Being this literal is a symptom of autism btw.
Is breaching affected by hatred? Would the +1 to wound mean a breaching 6+ weapon walso breaches on 5+ against a hated target?
>>96096660Give him a bit, he maybe works or something.
What was the turning point that lobotomized these people?
>I want militia to be the imperial guard.
Just play guard you fucker and leave militia alone, this is an army for conversions not one to allow 40niggers to jump in and ruin this system too more than they already have. I should stop looking at the discord even if I see more models getting posted there.
>>96096761No, modifiers do not affect rules that take effect on a certain dice roll.
>>96096751Asking a question and not expecting an answer is a symptom of being a woman
>>96096761All rules are always on unmodified rolls
>>96096665>hmmm yeah this guy can KILL TACTICALSNo wonder he lost. Let his opponents farm VP while he was aura farming.
>>96096733I'm sorry for your loss bro. They massacred you. It's a beautiful army.
>>96096764I in fact think we should do our upmost to scare away 40k players
>>96096767>>96096771Thanks for the clarification anons, was trying to figure out if the headhunter banestrike combis are as bad as they look (they are)
>>96096672Melta is also weird now. It operates in this spot where most of the time it will bounce off, but if it gets a good shot off it does massively gross overkill damage to a tank. So its a bit hard to quantify how lethal it is.
But yes, the loss of armorbane/sunder for the purposes of penetrating vehicles made them more durable. Hullpoints are nearly doubled on some tanks, and penetrating them is now harder than ever. So while some guns can deal severe damage to them (damage 4 arachnus lascannons are s10) between the loss of accuracy and reliability to penetrate theyre if not outright more durable then "more variantly durable", where theyre going to have very feast or famine survival (as opposed to reliably dying but maybe a bit slower).
The IW and NL trait no longer help killing tanks either, and haywire is gone.
>>96096761Everything is affected by hatred. Not on the tabletop. I mean like, your general vibe, bro.
>>96096784We already failed that during 2.0
We should have gatekept harder. HH has already been ruined by the refugees.
>>96096724>windows is actually legit too retardedwindows can sort by name, it looks fine on my screen.
>>96096456thank you my friend
>>96096786Theyre 4 shots each at BS5(?) s5(?). Theyre not bad at all.
>>96096823>Strength 4 AP 4They're garbage. Might as well take more tactical marines at that point.
>>96096534>>96096550>>96096724Ok bros, it seems like the search function also works; it's crazy how you can just find the stuff you need on the internet.
litter.catbox.moe/9zh539zknqu9vqso.pdf
>>96096763I suppose... I just want the template so I can write the units for 40k and 3.0 in that format. 3.0 is closer but still worse for no reason?
>>96096786Hatred is also only in close combat anyways. T.sad about terror squads Not too sad mind, a rhino rush of a vokite squad of terrors might be pretty good
>>96096809no clue why, I have to manually sort by name and it force separates by date, but in that case at least keeps the order when viewing the images,
When opening a file where I seemingly don't have to manually sort it jumbles the order when opening the images.
Must've fucked it up when extracting, since the compressed folder are nice and neat and orderly.
>>96096764Solar auxilia is elite imperial army. Like, the top third of it...meaning there's 2/3rd that are not solar auxilia.
But they're also not Militia, because those (at least in 2.0) represent things closer to PDF garrisons, cultist rabble, indigenous early crusade forces and so on. Meaning they're not the bulk of the Imperial Army either.
So, there's a human force in between SA and Militia, and they dress like this? I wouldn't have minded in 2.0. Idk their stats or cost in 3.0
>>96095394So after a model dies, you could do another recovery check when you move to the next one?
>>96096843a gentleman and a scholar
>>9609678710 meltaguns at max range cannot damage a russes front armour at all because they're S8 and only get armourbane at half range. They hit 7 times, glance once and inflict a single status.
Get them six inches closer and they hit 7 times, pen once, instantly deal 6 damage and slag the Russ.
In 2.0 melta did 1 glancing hit at range same as in 3.0 but at half range they gain armourbane so like, 3~4 penetrating hits into the front armour which also slag the russ.
Melta works very differently now mechanically but the end result of killing vehicles in half range is unchanged.
>>96096862Does hatred activate on a disordered charge?
>>96096885Hatred is just a flat +1 to wound vs the enemy in melee now (forever), its not a charge related rule any more.
>>96096891me when i need to pee vs me when i need to poop
>>96096865I think it might read one format first and then the other one. Like JPGs first and BMPs go after, or something. This can be turned off as well i think
>>96096867I'd kill for plastic vostroyans, especially if I can give all of them the cool gasmasks.
>>96096834I don't know how much Headhunters cost. How many tacticals should they kill?
>>96096786Also, they went from 3 attacks on the charge to only 1: no more +1A from charging, no more +1A from having two CCW.
You are either written as a melee unit, or you aren't.
What are folks expecting on friday?
>>96096907>You are either written as a melee unit, or you aren't.Or youre terror squads, who have 2A but want to be a ranged unit.
>>96096907125 points for the first 5 headhunters, +20 for each extra one
>>96096923Public execution of the team al quaeda style. More seriously I expect damage control where they point people towards the legacies doc.
>>96096936So theyre worth 2 tacticals each, have 2x the firepower of a tactical (no heavy, but theyre also better BS and breaching). Seems fairly even there.
>>96096923Not much. If we're lucky GW will show more of the models they've already teased during the HH 3.0 reveal stream. But it's just gonna be femstodes
>>96096867Couldn't you create such a force with the right combination of providence?
>>96096940If the entire rules hadn't leaked the legacies rules would have been known at the same time as everything else. But the leakers completely ruined that, and people these days are too retarded to realise they're working with incomplete information.
Wonder how much outrage there would have been in that instance, depending on how much stuff is in the legacies of course.
>>96096905Plastic Vostroyans would been cool AF. unfortunately Valhallans are more likely since they're actually still mentioned by GW.
>>96096954He can in 1.0 but he's just missing a couple of army units which he would hardly be barred from taking by other players. Same in 2.0 except that according to some people the militia and third line type have to go for an IA force, ymmv on if they should. It's probably going to be the much of the same for 3.0.
i am the only one that think that it is weird that hellguns aren't a thing in HH?
>>96096946They die just as easy as a tactical marine though, only 1 wound with a 3+ save. There is no world in which headhunters will trade even, even when shooting fucking tactical marines.
>>96096936Hmmm I'm not convinced. At least they can infiltrate two Precision 4+ Multi-meltas? That ought to do something.
>>96096946Exactly. Meaning you might be better off using actual tacticals instead.
Maybe a Recon or Seeker comparison would be more apt
>>96096907They're 125 base, 145 with multi melta, and can take meltabombs at 5 pts per. They're hot garbage, especially compared to seekers. It's kind of insane that in all three editions they're just worst seekers (aside from the 2.0 melta death squad).
>>96096940"and for out HH presentation we got a konrad curze cosplayer to publicly flay our SG office supervisor stephen, everyone say hi to stephen!"
>>96096979SA and militia have blast las weapons which are exactly the same thing but with a chance of blowing up when used and more rudimentary. Considering SA are meant to be the best equipped force hellguns might still not have been created.
>>96096987Seekers do seem absolutely nuts, their only issue is they take an elite slot which is otherwise hard to get by (unless youre DA, and you can just take a firewing detachment).
>Force axe is AP 2 at -1 iniative
....WHAT!??!
>>96097007GW is totally fine with having AP2 axes. But chooses not to LMAO
All this headhunter discussion is obfuscating the true weird Alpha Legion choice, which is "Why did they change exodus from a HQ choice to a role that's in the Alpha Legion special detachment, but then ban him from being in said detachment?"
>>96097007and you make it D2 with a successful psychic check
>>96097004AL can spam seekers too with their headhunter leviathal detachment.
Those fucking snakes really got everything...
>>96097007Paragon of battle librarians can be pretty scary
>>96097015Probably to stop people from allying in 50 exodii
>>96097027Dont need paragon of battle, divination has a "always hits on 2+" gambit and makes you a functional I+1 for challenges with duellists edge(2)
Divination librarians are scary.
>>96096907>You are either written as a melee unit, or you aren't.This really does piss me off in the new edition. I used to run my auxilia as penal regiments with bayonets in 2.0. Gave my rifle sections a 6+++ and furious charge.
On the charge these retards made 2 attacks each at strength 5 while being primarily a ranged unit. Was it good? God no, i lost out on close order and usually only ever made snapshots with my guys but it was funny.
In 3.0 these mooks are 1 attack each at S3, unless I'm charging militia or cyberzombies the Bayonet is literally useless. Shit sucks.
>>96097014The force axe is hardly a "standard issue" weapon. Both it and the crozius are overstatted for a regular power weapon, theyre also on a character who is locked to the weapon and cant upgrade for a thunder hammer or whatever. So it balances out.
It wouldnt work if they just had sekhmet terminators running around with force axes on everyone, thatd be nuts.
>>96097007Tbh this is exactly what axes SHOULD be. They then fill the roll as an anti powerfist /hammer weapon
>>96096923My money's on Skitarii Pilgryms. The hint video had one dude in a Pilgrim hat and we got Skitarii hints at the Saturnine reveal.
>>96096979Hellguns would never see the light of day in 30k because they're relatively easy to use and produce and they kill space marines. The legiones would never give mortals access to weapons effective against them in case a rebellion happened.
Then a rebellion did happen, but it sure as shit wasn't the army who started it. After the Heresy Guilliman pulled astartes out of imperial politics and the high Lords probably commissioned the production of Hellguns as anti spare marine weapons.
>>96096786everyone else on the internet is complaining about how OP mech look, so AP4 might serve you well
>>96096972I guess so. I find it interesting that they already gave the testers the journal too.
>>96097049A Billion imperial forgeworlds.
You can have has many Force Axes as you desire.
>>96097004Assume infiltration ran its course and you're targeting a second target
>Seekers shoot 2 Breaching 4+ shots from 30" away>Headhunters shoot 0, rush 11">Seekers shoot another 2 Breaching 4+ shots>Headhunters move 1", shoot 4 Breaching 6+ shotsWhat is the Headhunter's niche? Init 6 knives...so? Single attack.
>>96097067>this is exactly what axes should be S+2 Ap2 D2 at I-1? Are you retarded?
>they can be anti fist/hammer weaponsThe anti powerfist weapon IS hammers anon
Axes swing before hammers but have substantially less damage because theyre also substantially cheaper. Theyre a budget weapon to let someone get wounds into 2+ saves.
>>96097098Didn't anyone tell you? Thallaxii have a 3+ save now. AP4 is officially just for killing humans.
>>96097100Well that is a book they're selling, so just another of the products that "influencers" get early for free.
>>96092981Flip side isn't a scalper it's got great service too
They always ship within 24hrs of payment and it get there in like 5 days max.
>>96096972Minus all the reviewers having had their reviews finished ready to publish with the same information before the leaks? Leaks didn't change anything other than the timing of the outrage. GW not giving reviewers even a heads-up to legacies was a huge mistake.
>>96097015The what? I must've missed that bit. He's not a Centurion anymore? I'm angry he can no longer join anyone at all. Not even recons or Headhunters or seekers or whatever. Saboteurs ("specialist") can.
I did run him solo at times, but it was nice to have the option
file
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full core rulebook pdf
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
>>96094338Because Ultramarines are the greatest of them all.
>>96097124Oh yes. 20 ppm BTW.
>>96097039Yeah, charges empowered the active player. Now it's equalized, and the real thing is deciding who to engage. Eh, it's a sidegrade โ you aren't the attacker half the time after all.
I wouldn't be bitching this much if Seekers were 2A like
>>96096924's Terror squads, is what I'm saying.
>>96097128I mean, that we're getting legacies rules is public knowledge, if only people would actually FUCKING READ
>>96097112No. S+1 AP2 D1 Init-1. Terminators are 2W 5/4++, they can take it
>>96096867>they dress like thisFor winter campaigns.
SA just represents one regiment type of the Imperial Army. The single biggest, most successful regiment type, second only to Marines. And of course the regiment type has its sub-types to boot, rather than GW having to actually make other actual lists. Like having Catachans be the face of IG while also pulling duty as armoured companies and nothing really referencing their jungle fighting origins.
>>96097086Anon, ONE squad gets access to hellguns. And they would be S3 AP3, no breaching at all. Marines have T4, they can take it (and would force them into cover, for once)
>>96097132That's some quality DP.
>>96097147Phased plasma for 10 points on all of these guys is absolute bullshit
>>96097164>legatine axes should be standard power weaponslol
>>96097155Yes we know. We don't know the scope and what is getting turned into paid DLC. Legacies could be ports of of basic things like boxnaughts and Destroyers, but be missing options and entries like praetorian on bike. Not knowing the scope of legacies is the issue. If GW told reviewers, hey legacies day 1 adds missing datasheets for XYZ then this all would have already blown over. The fact they didn't should concern anyone. How much is missing? How much is being added in panic right now to be ready for the 26th? If it releases and it's perfect, was it always the case or did outage save us?
>>96097155Maybe people can read, and they're far less convinced that the Legacies will fix much.
>>96097098>AP4 might serve you wellBanestrike was invented specifically to breach power armour, not carapace.
They could be S4 AP3. It would still fail to wound marines half the time, they can take it.
>>96097181Their lightning guns aren't even that bad either, they're heavy bolters with assault and suppressive.
>>96095170Because he got access to the book early through his wife and figured he can scoop up the new people who don't know any better.
It's all about the money. He always talks about how much he loves Necromunda, for years, yet he never made that into a channel (not enough money through shilling).
He is just another faggot grifter
>>96097175>And they would be S3 AP5 like in 3e and 4eFTFY
Maybe Breaching (6+) with Overload.
>>96097147Didnt they use to have 3w?
>>96097132>>96096843SO MANY PDFS TODAY! (two)
>>96097147>Yet another edition of thallax being absolute cancer
>>96097184Legatine axes were S(User) AP2 Initiative (User), retard-kun. They are weaker, faster axes. At Damage 1, terminators and even veterans can survive it, and for regular 1W marines, they are not any different from regular swords, failing to wound half the time.
They could take it.
>>96097112No I meant they should be ap2 -1 init s+1
>>96097132very well anon, thank you!
>>96097218>Legatine axes were S(User) AP2 Initiative (User), retard-kun. They are weaker, faster axes.And they were nuts, and that unit was absolutely busted.
>>96097204That's a lot of acrobatics for a lasgun that pierces power armour, anon
>>96097175I'm not making a gameplay argument, I'm saying that in universe marines would have thrown a bitch fit if the Imperial army started getting bulk shipments of a gun made to kill space marines. They were bitching constantly about normies even with the Army neutered against them.
>>96097231Suzerains were nuts because they were essentially Tartaros with 5A and you could fit 10 in a Land Raider. Know your complaints.
>>96097231>The axe was broken No the unit they were on was busted as shit, being able to get like 5 attacks at ws5 while having a 2+ 4++ was fucking stupid. But an ap 2 axe at -1 init is not a problem
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>only the base matters, you only measure to the base
>>96096665>The problem is that they should be good at fighting other termiesWhy?
Plowing units with heavily armed and armored units for easy kills is basic strategy.
You are talking about using rocks on rocks, instead of hammers on rocks.
>>96097236I guess they did throw a fit in 30k after seeing the galaxy they conquered be ruled by undeserving mortal weaklings who hadn't even been born yet
Can you unlock auxiliary detachments from the Command slots of other auxiliary detachments?
>>96097258>WhyBECAUSE THEY'RE A RETINUEEEEEE xDD
>>96097257Chest-high-walls-don't-block-AOS anons in shambles.
>>96097276This, if the selling point of your retinue is "bro they are great at killing MEQ" it's a shit retinue because your wasting so many points If you are running them into mooks like holy shit
>>96097258This is HH, everybody always wants to have their hot marine-on-marine grinding session by throwing their terminator brick into their opponent's terminator brick.
>>96097234It has more power, that is all. How that's represented in the rules has different greatly. 2e hot-shot power packs just gave +1 to Str. Lasguns were already AP-1 stock (same as bolters). In 3e they became S3 AP5, so mostly no different from lasguns. If you think they're going to keep hot-shot lasguns AP3 when even the terminator slaying plasma gun gets to be mere AP4, you're delusional.
>>96097266Yes, unless otherwise specified by the detachment or you use special assignment
>>96097132>>96096843ANOTHER SCANON HAS ARISEN
>>96097214Ursarax might also end up pretty crazy honestly. Six of these bastards put out 30 S4 AP3 swings.
>>96097266Yes, can have a auxiliary detachment for each command slot filled in any detachment.
>>96097301sorry, I just lifted it off of telegram
>>96096733Keep it, you fool. Unless you really need the cash.
>>96096733>Thinking HH models will be worth anything now that GW killed the game with 3.0Lol. Lmao, even.
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>GW unmasked
>>960973056 for 150 points is kind of insane
>>96097266You can get an unlimited number of Optae by making a chain of these
>>96097147>not line(X)Iโm less afraid now. Unless thereโs a rule that buffs their scoring value itโs annoying but not the end of the world.
>>96097185All I know is that the legacy docs and the inevitable day one errata will be what conclusively decides whether I even buy into this edition.
>>96097359I think mechanicum will be functioning on "kill all the line units" this edition
>>96097278measuring distances and assessing line of sight are different things though
>>96097305>>96097147They seem to have lost their jet pack gimmick tho
Can't have everything I guess
>>96097363There won't be day one errata, this is a specialist game. It will be 3 months before anything is addressed.
>>96097357I mean Optae are pretty shit tho
>>96097331It is still a glorious day, anon; you did what hundreds of other anons were unable toโyou brought enlightenment to all of us.
>>96097373Yes, I think that if you only bring like 3-4 line(X) units that youโre going to have a bad time. Master of Signals is going to be an auto-include in every one of my lists as an emergency backup option.
>>96097359Admech are weird, their characters are the ones with this special rule and they give it to any unit they join.
>>96097206Yes, they lost 1 W, gained 1 WS, 3+ save and 1 Initiative.
>>96097421But they can't keep up with thallax or ursarax, they lost the ability to take jump packs
>>96097402Cheapest way to get comptroller is the humble techpriest who is essentially a 30 point upgrade for line (1) on a unit. Magi are 100 points and have Comptroller (2) instead.
>>96097305They also have the Lacrymaerta apex detachment that gives you three units with prime slots and the prime benefit of +2S and +1W so that's a 30 S6 AP3 blender if you juice them up
>>96097460How can they join units?
Sorry if it's a silly question but I am struggling to understand how to use them.
>>96097460A basic bitch, 30p tech-priest is a cybertheurgist?
Did they kneecap the power a lot or something?
>>96097441True, you'll probably want to stick your comptrollers in with Castellax or Vorax to walk onto the objectives your Ursarax clear.
>>96097483Nta. Specialist unit type lets you join units without being command
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>>96097483specialists can just freely join units
>>96097441Have we seen the mechanicum wargear list?
>>96097490Yeah, thallax and ursarax are for annihilating whoever stands near them (and they're at least marginally less helpless in melee with WS4, although they still have low leadership and I)
>>96097460Do we have the pages for the wargear lists?
>>96097214They lost jump-shoot-jump though afaik, big sad.
>>96097489They can only take one rite, Magi can take as many as they want and are also better at manifesting them.
Does Bayonet trait do anything? Can't find any reference to it in rules.
This again? Why do they do this? Haven't they seen how much people were angry at getting normal army regiments retconned to solar auxilia cohorts?
>>96097489Well you can pick between either getting +1 move and init (+3 move for vehicles), +1 S and T (+1 AV for vehicles), or +1 WS and BS (just +BS for vehicles), all of them with do some random amount auto wound AP5 D1 when they wear off, and they can't stack. I'd say it's a wash in terms of buff capability? But a lot of Automata got knocked down to WS3 BS3 except for elites who still get WS4 BS4 (including the poor daemon engines, knocked down from their peg lol), so they kind of need the cybertheurgy buffs
>>96097547>Saturnine void troopers were used during the Unification Wars on Terra>Saturnine exo-suits were also used during the Unification Wars on Terra>all before even Luna was conquered, let alone Mars or the rest of the solar system
why shouldnt I spend 1200+pts on 120 techthralls
>>96097597please tell me thralls aren't 10ppm
>>96097597because you also have to buy, assemble and paint the fuckers
>>96097592Yeah this shit doesn't make any sense, the Saturnine Rams were fighting alien slavers and each other in the outer solar system while the Emperor was conquering terra. You don't need to backport the solar auxilia THIS far into the lore.
>>96097597Because you need to spend 2000 points on 200 tech thralls, 40 for each archmagos. Don't forget the extra 100 you need for when marines can't kill them all so you can just battlesmith up more, since your archmagos can create 8 each turn and each magos can create 6 if they have machinator arrays. Marines should be grateful GW had the wisdom to not make any detachments with prime support slots available to mech so they can't make them 2 wounds each...yet.
>>96097621you don't recognize the tactical space marine statline, anon?
>>96097597What is their purpose?
Their gun is absolute shit and they are stupidly expensive
Being super resilient is all good and well but they don't do anything aside from that and you can just leave combat this edition so it's not like tarpits are amazing
>>96097621They literally are.
>>96097621They are.
At T5 they are about 3x harder to kill than they were in 2ed, but it's still wild how expensive they are, considering they die INSTANTLY to cybertheurgy
>>96097638That feels underwhelming for 10pts
>>96097634We've gone from "no models, no rules" to "no models, no lore".
>>96097638Las-locs are
18" 1 S4 6AP - No special rules btw
>>96097641Can you stop it or are you melee guys forced to just wave goodbye then getting shot to death in the next phase?
>>96097597Because you could instead just run iron tide and spam nothing but plasma and photon thruster thallax and be unstoppable
>>96097666If you win combat you can pursue or shoot them in the back
I don't see these guys doing that tho
>>96097621Yeah they are, the Lacrymaerta have a prime benefit that let's you give them 2 wounds each, make them T6 and respawn 4 every turn, also they're expendable 2 so your opponent gets nothing for killing them.
A maxed squad has 80 T6 wounds with a 6+++ if you do this. If you dont then they're completely useless.
>New edition drops in 11 days
>Hasn't been a single article on warcom since Saturday
The community and rule teams are probably having their balls smacked in the dungeon
>>96097634It also doesn't make any sense that the traitors were so butthurt about getting cut out of politics over normals if those normals were conquering for the Emperor before the primarchs were a twinkle In his eye.
Well it does make sense but only because horus was an egotistical little bitch.
>>96097686is that prime advantage even worth it on thralls when you can slap it on ursurax instead?
the strength bonus would be huge
On one hand, yes they're a pain to remove if you use fortify on them
On the other hand, as far as I know mech has no access to prime support slots so they can't apply prime benefits to Tech Thralls
>>96097686Why is anyone seriously suggesting buffing them with cybertheurgy?
As soon as the buf wears off the unit suffers feedback, instantly killing 5/6 of them.
Casting cybertheurgy buffs on them is literally the most efficient way in the game to kill tech-thralls
>>96097701New edition drops in 11 days and shit is still not sold out
>>96097701I hope they're using the red whippy measuring sticks from the AoD box
>>96097718They don't need it their units are fucking busted as is.
Who ever the fuck said
>You know what the plasma thanatara needs? 72" rangeNeeds to be slapped in the nuts with a pine cone
>>96097719because you can charge them into combat then use the other cybertheurgy to strip the buff and make them explode
>>96097719>Why is anyone seriously suggesting buffing them with cybertheurgyWhy, so you can explode them of course
>>96097716Different uses, prime Ursarax are extremely good at killing shit while the prime Thralls can sit on an objective with a magos forever and collect at minimum 3 VP a round.
Massed volkite is the only real counter to the Thrall strat i can think of. Nothing else has the volume to chew through those wounds.
>>96097719Its not Cyberthurgy, Its a prime upgrade like master sargent.
>>96097745>ISIS MechanicumHilarious
>>96097750you can't even give thralls the prime trait because there is no detachment that lacymaerta has access to that gives a support slot a prime advantage
>>96097745>Mechanicum get a bevvy of flavourful rules to represent their faction.>chaplains lose hatred.Imagine playing space marines in any system lmao.
>>96097759+1 wound is a prime benefit, but +1 toughness is a cybertheurgy power
>>96097745>>96097739While baneling tech-thralls are funny as shit (and definitely something I'll be doing), it does completely counteract the idea of buffing them to make them tougher, and actively works against the 2W prime benefit
>>96097782>Imagine playing a system and not just moving your models around making pew pew noises
>>96097761>hh1 people were sometimes using rite of immolation to blow up their automata that got stuck in melee>hh2 people were using vorax because of their s8 explosion on death>hh3 people maybe will use thralls to suicide them into enemy unitsthe more things change the more they same
>>96097775Oh wow you're not even wrong, would help if I actually checked their detachments instead of repeating what other anons have said.
Are you supposed to recover an unsaved wound on a model in the phase when you use the Narthesium?
Because it doesn't sound like the Recovery Test was written with this in mind (since it says it happens when you allocate the unsaved wounds).
But it would be absolutely fucking retarded to reference a rule that has nothing to do with what you are doing just to have that rule reference another rule so you can make a roll based on Medic(x)...
What level of retardation are we on here?
Do you get a model back if you pass it or is this the most convoluted way of saying "roll a dice and on a 4+ you get the -2 to the status check"
>>96092840 (OP)So, how fucked are Word Bearers this edition?
>>96097790>The trannies' favorite faction excel at suicide Lol
Lmao even
>>96097745>have to pass a Int8 check to give them a status before they're in combat>have to then pass another Int6 check to blow them upbro this is not happening except in magic christmas land
Great news, everynyan! Despite my misreading of the Master Sgt benefit, I figured out a way to still flood the board.
Army: Dark Angels
2450 points
-Primary Detachment (635)
Praetor with terranic greatsword and bolter = 135
[PRIME] Centurion with terranic greatsword and bolter = 95
- Prime Advantage: Paragon of battle
Centurion with terranic greatsword and bolter =95
Centurion with terranic greatsword and bolter = 95
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Stormwing Muster Detachment (215)
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Stormwing Muster Detachment (215)
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Stormwing Muster Detachment (215)
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Stormwing Muster Detachment (215)
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Stormwing Muster Detachment (215)
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Stormwing Muster Detachment (215)
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Stormwing Muster Detachment (215)
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Stormwing Muster Detachment (215)
[PRIME] Tactical squad, master sgt with terranic greatsword and bolter, 19 legionaries = 215
- Prime Advantage: Master Sgt
-Officer Cadre Detachment (190)
[PRIME] Centurion with terranic greatsword and bolter = 95
- Prime Advantage: Paragon of battle
Centurion with terranic greatsword and bolter = 95
>>96094360thanku! they're made of smashed up bits of plaster of paris and texture paint. then just painted like rocks and caked with pigment powder.
>>96097794Yeah mech's got two extra faction agnostic aux detachments, one for four support to fit all the former troops (tech thalls, castellax, and thallax) and one for four troops to fit all the techpriests, although annoyingly servo Automata are stuck in retinue slot with no easy way to get them out - would've greatly appreciated another one with just two troop slots and two retinues slot that was locked to echindax
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>>96097827if you're playing at 3k you do get to just take a warlord detachment to get a free retinue since all slots are optional
>>96097811Cyber-familiars now give -2 to int checks, and if you have a second cybertheurgist in the same squad as the one casting the spell (so a basic techpriest) you get another -1. So it's an Int 11 and int 9 check respectively.
It's still shit that you have to buff them before exploding them, but at least it's not a full on hail mary to cast spells.
>horus heresy: has regular sized battles where primarchs can eat up most of your points and overwhelm the whole battle making it less interesting
>legion imperialis: has giant battles where centerpiece great leaders like primarchs would fit right in, doesn't have them
I know it's a dead game but fucking still, release some new models like daemons, new special/heavy weapon teams and primarchs.
By the way what happened to the HH mega, did James kill it?
>>96097800Anon?
Don't kill my hope
that's my job
I need to find me somewhere with good scans of HH resin units, I want to offer free prints to everyone in the local hh group just to fucking cost gw sales for this shit
>>96097745>tech-thralls more effective as a living bomb than as a model in combat
>>96097842Nothing says you can't take as many as you want
>>96097800Unique wargear gone, procurators gone, Kor doesn't buff Lorgar, Lorgar is always corrupted and a traitor, new corrupted upgrade.
>>96097859You said it yourself
It's a dead game
Was dead on arrival
They released what they had in the cooker on release but nothing is ever coming out ever again
>>96097874and the funniest fucking thing is that YOU CAN RESTORE THESE MODELS INTO THE UNIT VIA BATTLESMITH
>>96097850Yeah, having a set-up move of only 1" is also going to hamper them
>>96097876Something does say that, unfortunately
>>96097842>>96097876Are you sure? A WL/LoW Detachment isn't a an auxiliary detachment.
>>96097890They're releasing Dark Mechanicum currently.
>>96097895Ah, so you can't even take one without a Primarch
>>96097901nvm I did not see the actual page with the warlord detachment rules, carry on with your dooming
Valrak is right, Mark V is the next mark in the pipeline.
>>96093233>>96093246Ended up grabbing it, turns out the discount was from it being slightly used, but other than a set of beakies and a character model, everything else appears untouched. Nothing a little TLC can't remedy!
>>96093269Thanks, your post reminded me to ask around a little before I pulled the trigger. They sound like a welcoming bunch.
>>96097881Thanks anon.
>wtf am i readingstill could be worse though.
>>96097906There's been one dark mech release months ago
Calm your horses
>>96097800>>96097868No tainted weapons, no warpfire gun upgrades, all the special units are boxlocked, burning lore is even more expensive and locked to high command, but other than that some cute toys here and there; +1 to combat res always, glorious martyrdom still works fine, the gambit is your character beseeching the gods for boons, gal vorbak, ashen circle and mahra gal now occupy different slots so they don't step on each others toes.
you win some you lose some
>>96097881I'm not gonna miss the procurators
Gal Vorbak are paying for the sins of 2.0
Erebus is just an esoterist with a bit better stats
>>96097868I'll give it to you straight doc
>No warpfire plasma >No tainted weapons (not that you ever took them even if modeled lol)>Corrupted is now both available to all traitors and simultaneously more restricted by being a prime benefit rather than an upgrade you can toss on any unit, although that's sidegraded by the fact that word bearers have more access than most thanks to our apex detachment >Burning lore is back to being praetor only, and it just gives the esoterist discipline (but not the extra slots used for the esoterist discipline, which can only be used to summon brutes now anyway)>No equivalent to dark brethren >gal vorbak lost rage in an addition with no bonus attacks of charge and lost power fists, murderous strike on their claws got replaced by shred which is technically worse into anything greater than 2 wounds that didn't have eternal warrior (D3 wounds vs atomantic on a 6 vs 2 wounds on a 6)>mhara gal is down to WS5 and I4 (still better than than other dread WS at least), it's claw is the same as gravis power fists, but it no longer nerfs other daemons nearby and it's fist gun and warpfore Cannon got buffedSimply put, we're probably the worst traitors right now, maybe the worst legion overall. We were bad in 2nd and we lost our crutches of dark brethren and mhara gal
>>96097895Finally. It's starting to make sense
>>96097816I guess all you need to do is to fill only the prime slot in the Stormwing detachment, and keep on taking new ones huh.
I still fret at how Power Scythes are bad because sergeants shouldn't be given Commmander-class weapons, then Dark Angels can spam their Commander-only weapons on Stormwing detachments
>>96097960why are you dooming about gal vorbak?
they get to ignore tactical statuses and get their FNP regardless of weapon strength
weapons are way worse tho
Oh so they copypasted all the fluff from the last core book. Cool.
>>96097911I don't see anything that requires a Primarch
>>96093705>>96093738>>96093782Atari Wojaks were made to mock console warfags when Atari announced the 2600+, an Atari 2600 with an HDMI port.
Horus Heresy btw
>>96097701Articles in advance of every release completely vanish after pre-orders go live. It's not unique to the new HH edition
>>96097974You just answered your own questions
>>96097980Primarchs are paragons type
Which is the only paragon unit marines have
Unlike Paragons of Battle, which are a generic prime advantage that has nothing to do with this
>>96097980>A Warlord Detachment MUST ALWAYS INCLUDE AT LEAST ONE Model with the Paragon Type.
>MKIV
>it was worn en-masse by the Emperorโs
Children during the Siege of Terra.
I hoped they would forget about this lore; instead, they doubled down on it. I don't want to be in a beakie legion, bros.
>>96097938Give me MIV instead of that ugly leg ball shit.
>>96097800Itโs not as bad as people say. Mara Gal no longer fucks our own units, which is huge. Gal Vorbak are only okay-ish, and probably bad for their points, idk. Lorgar has a pretty good chance of punching up against โbetterโ primarchs because he has a high D crit 5+ weapon. Prime benefit is probably not worth giving up one of the generic ones. Less is known about how WB will play because there wonโt be daemons on release, just like last edition unfortunately.
>>96098009MK IV or MK VI?
I have lots of TSons in MK VI because I like Corvidae
>>96097800Who cares, nobody will be playing 3.0
>>96097800On a more positive note, ashen circle look great and while our units got hit hard, I donโt believe it knocked them down too far. Hard to tell without getting a feel for the whole game though
>>96097016>>96097038the downside of this is if you roll a doubles and Perils of the Warp goes off, the librarian either always strikes last via stunned (so opponent just murders the librarian) or suffers 13 minus willpower autowounds at essentially AP2 that ignore FNP entirely (everything but Invulns)
The brawler librarian is a very double-edged sword. It's probably better to have him at range where stunned doesnt get the librarian killed.
>>96098027>MK IV or MK VI?Yeah, I'm retarded, I guess (very sad). MKVI. I guess we won't see MKIV in a long time.
>>96098041Unless you play thousand sons and you sling your perils on a robot
>>96098009I will say what I said in 2.0: For better or worse, this was the original canon in 2e. Old CSM armor was beakie-derived to contrast them from the new mk7 marines.
>>96096751where do you think we are?
Is it just me or is this guy too expensive?
>>96097701I doubt the community team is getting stomped on, theyre empty mouth pieces who probably saw the rules the first time they leaked lol. Does seem to coincide with all the leaks though.
>>96098060yeah, TS with their +1 wp trait, a +1 wp prime unit retinue and assistant robots will make regular psykers look like limp bitches.
>>96098041Y'all niggas are cowards, force axe biomancy/divination librarian for life, I will kill a primarch or die trying
>>96098072Are you buying from scalpers?
Just wait a couple months and the box box will be on discount.
>>96097938Your armour autism is weak.
>>96098072He's going for ยฃ25 on bits and kits, not sure about postage though.
>>96098084I'm not buying anything, just watching the market
>>96098086That's closer but still riding high. I'm pretty sure the price will arbitrage itself out I'm the next couple of months.
>>96098075They still peril just as much
Mathematically, you peril 1 out of 6 psychic tests
Another thing is that you should just pretend curses don't exist because with the WIP save, it only goes off less than half the time, about 30%
Pleas leaker anons, any scrap for Solar would be greatly appreciated.
managed to sit through Pissy ass Pardo's battle report for 3rd ed and completely unrelated to the Liber massacres, the ed seems like dog shit to run itself? Scoring is fucked, vehicle and weapon interactions are fucked, terrain and LOS is fucked. What is actually even salvageable??
>>96098027I was going go start Thousand Sons with MK2, do you think the monoeye makes Magnus upset?
Alright anons, made an AL list for 3.0, please advise
Alpha Legion 3k - 3rd edition
CRUSADE PRIMARY DETACHMENT: 1280pts
High command: 185
Armillus Dynat - 185 pts
Command:
Master of signals - 115 pts -> Armoured Support
Prime: Rewards of Treason
Centurion (power sword) - 90 pts -> 2x Headhunter Leviathal
Troops:
2x 10 tac marines - 200 pts
Prime: Logistical benefit
Transports:
2x Rhinos -120
Logistical benefit: multiMelta Squad with augury scanner - 360 pts
Rewards of Treachery: Mhara Ghal - 210 pts
2x HEADHUNTER LEVIATHAL: 870 pts
Recon:
1x neutron Saber - 90 pts
1x5 Nemesis Recon squad - 135 pts
2x5 seekers - 210 pts
2x logistical benefits
2x Master Sgt (recons)
Logistical benefits: 365
Augury Command and Control Squad - 80 pts
Elite: 1x5 Lernaean (power fist, chainfist, c-beamer) - 285 pts
ARMOURED SUPPORT: 485 pts
1xchoomKratos - 295
1xSicaran Venator with lascannons - 190
>>96098072you could find it on trolltrader or other resale shops in a few weeks for less probably but that price there will likely be less than retail
>>96098067>this was the original canon in 2eit's over. upgrade sets isn't that bad though
>>96098151The Sekhemet blind their right eye like Magnus
You can see the termis have a gold plate over it
>>96098171Mk2 upgrades will probably release along with the cut content
Uh I mean DLC
uh I mean Journal tactica
>>96098149Nothing. The edition is dead on arrival for a reason.
>>96098057They've done a different MK every 2 years. It stands to reason they would redo MK IV next
heh
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>>96098186That made Magnus upset.
>>96097592No, they were used for the unification of the solar system.
>>96097638>ld4So they just auto run away from flamers?
>>96098233Oh. I don't know what I thought your questions was when I replied.
Well, they didn't design it. They just got it delivered to them.
>>96098245Aka. The Great Crusade.
>>96098152Fuck that does look pretty good.
>>96098194>Mk2 upgrades will probably release along with the cut contentAny day bro.
Just like the Mk III upgrades.
Or the Legion Armouries
Or the other Consuls.
>>96098285Leave it to james to build their studio models in the shittiest poses possible.
>>96098319Much like with the paint jobs thats probably part intentional. The poses need to show off the model so people can identify all the details and see if they want it. For this static, simple, poses are best. More complex positions are both something the buyer might not be able to replicate (since it takes cutting and posing) but also something which might leave parts hidden or obscured.
>>96098319The pose helps, the dumb parts of the armour are dumb no matter what pose it's in.
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>>96098194>Mk2 upgrades>>96098205>It stands to reason they would redo MK IV nextI wonder how they will customize the MK2 for different legions. MK IV, you are so far away.
Feeling silly, want to do a terrible Primarch off on 3.0 rules, but a bit tired of having to jump into so many images and opening everything, is there a pdf link to the libers and main rules to be sure I can do this retarded thing? Not sure why even bother, but after a bad tier list ina previous threat I have the itch to mathammer everything.
>>96098292Mk3 wasn't the face of a new edition
>>96098360The Khan is the biggest loser of 3.0 even if he's pretty good in combat
No bike and forced to spam empty land raiders is just insulting
>>96098360I think vulkan wins it in the end, but honestly a lot of it will just be a slugging match with no conclusive or near victor.
I'm thinking of doing my MkII as Night Lords, how much lightning is too much?
>>96098410when the armor looks white with blue lines instead of blue with white lines
>>96098152why does it look like it's been tumbling around in a dryer?
>>96098149Zero is salvageable. WS chart still fucked, terrain entirely fucked. 4 turn games purely fucked. Ground circle scoring is gay. Charges are needlessly complex (move, then add your unit's move+initiative and reference a chart to do first half of the chart, ruin your charge shooting pistols and wait for enemy to remove models to change the charge distance, then roll 2d6 and discard one for the second half of the charge. Vehicles eating 4-9 wounds without any alteration of fighting performance but getting glanced by a weak weapon immobilizing them, having to constantly add and remove status tokens with easily forgotten effects all over the board is fucked, melee is fucked with sweeping advance removed (so the most punishing part of retreating is gone, guardsmen should be mowed down like grass if they flee), melee attacks are fucked, stupid mini-game is fucked, non-true-line-of-sight is fucked, deepstriking one unit max is fucked, deepstrike not working for any melee units is fucked, heavy weapons run and gunning is fucked, the stratagem points reaction system is fucked (oh your army has 2 stratagem points not 4? well you can't do much, but my army gets to shoot twice per turn and is immune to charges since they can move in your movement phase and move again in your charging phase.)
The game was dead before the Libers were released, but Libers just put it out of its misery by freeing people from the hope that some flavorful well-written army lists could make up for the core game's shitty rules and that we'd simply re-write the terrible wordings to make it shorter eventually. Libers made it crystal clear that HH3 sucks and army rules are going to suck harder, require 12 paid DLCs with long delays and terrible balance, and then all be invalidated every 3 years so you'll buy new paper DLCs.
Can someone post the master of descent rules?
>>96098443the entire rulebook and entire liber book are PDFs available higher up this thread from catbox
>>96098451I just need the master of descent.
>>96098335Actually if that's as far as it can raise the hammer it just gives away that it can't actually swing it.
>>96098451Please stop using catbox/litterbox or mega, we're in 2025 ffs, use a filehosting service better suited for anonymous big files.
Here are the rulebooks and astartes libers photo scans :
> https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
do we know if termi characters can join saturnine?
>>96098542There Is no limitation for armor type joining others, Just Remember that Heavy bonus only apply of the full unit have It so you want either a catafracti charaxter or One with boarding shield
>>96098532what are the benefits?
>>96098360it's pretty much just won by whoever can overwhelm eternal warrior 2-3 by doing 4-6 damage per swing using strikelast gambit. Vulkan and Horus and other Dmg3+Crit or Dmg3+Shred primarchs.
Morty might also get a little play just by having 7 wounds with EW-3 instead of most 6 wounds with EW-2 and Morty making all the Crit4+ primarchs only crit on 6+ the same as Morty's scythe.
I'm not going to bother simulating it since the gambit minigame is needlessly complex. As the charging player picks the first gambit (which modifies initiative) and then his opponent counter-picks acccording to that gambit (but has to always pick a different gambit), then whoever won initiative after that pair of picks gets first pick of next gambit (Which opponent can't copy) which changes their initiative and opponent has to try to counterpick, it's all very tedius and convoluted and when you finally learn the rock-paper-scissors of every matchups, it won't actually matter, HH3 isn't a game worth playing.
>>96098427TLoS is cancer, full stop. 4 turn games have been a thing since the expansion in 2.0 and are fine. The rest you have a point on.
So if I'm doing a 6 man Saturnine Squad with Praetor, with the intention to deep strike them, how many should have fists and Disintegrators and how many should have double Disintegrators?
I was thinking 3/3, that way I have 4 that can dedicate to melee, 3 that dump out more shots but then are free to die if they shoot me back.
>>96098562In this case, faster to upload and download, no login, anonymous. Just drag and drop into the browser to create a folder.
The only con is that files are locked if they're not downloaded in more than 10 days.
There's also https://ufile.io/ and others, each with pros and cons, but much better than some hobby project to host hentai gifs from a decade ago
>>96098615Wait to see what the saturnine command squad can do.
>>96098526me and the boys ready to hold Vraks
>>96098620but catbox shares those qualities, minus the folder organization (but that can be solved by just compressing the files and doing it yourself)
I am a loyal catbox soldier
>>96098600people too retarded and tiktok attention span to play out a 6-turn game should be kicked out of stores on sight.
>>96098615Zero distingrators unless you want to turbo kill yourself. Every 1 and 2 to hit is a hit on your own unit at damage 2 AP2. Double Disintegrators is a trap. Plasma, fist, flamer and only shoot the plasma if you killed your original target already.
Thanks for uploading PDFs there, but afaik, GoFile deletes things just like Mega. Catbox, on the other hand, never deleted anything I put there (a lot of stuff that was otherwise deleted on other file hostings). I try to use Litterbox these days; it eventually deletes stuff after 3 days. Normal catbox stores uploads forever; my old GW PDFs there are still alive even years after (yeah, I'm saving links in Notepad).
>>96098660There aren't enough good players to have the game be a nail biter to turn 6. Games are decided turn 3 usually. Not every mission can be war of lies. If someone wanted to play 5 with a potential 6th regardless of score I wouldn't mind. Especially with beer involved.
>>96098661the only place for disintegrators is other units that have disposable chaff bodies like vet tacs. It's entirely irrelevant losing a bolter to an overload. Losing a saturnine to overload is unacceptable because it removes a useful gun.
>>96098687the reason games are decided by turn 3 is GW's retarded 4 turn game length, GW's retarded non6x4 table sizes and GW's retarded army design changes like move-and-shoot heavy weapons and having to stand in circles in the center of the map to score goodboy points.
Back in 3rd-5th 40k it was quite common for a game to still be fun and up in the air for both sides to win on turn 4-6, because there was actual maneuvering and strategy and using terrain, but now it's tiny boards swarm forward and fight to death in 1 single turn. HH2 and HH3 don't even classify as wargames, they're too small and short to even do any actual war on.
>>96098653catbox/litterbox is shit for big files and slow as hell. I had to retry several times the files hosted there before re-uploading them to gofile in seconds.
>>96098684I've never seen gofile delete anything, except stale links not downloaded in more than 10 days. For our purposes that more than enough.
Same for ufile, although it has different conditions.
>>96098600>Tlos is cancer No it's not you just play with shitty players who like to argue about it. It's the same thing with people who say scatter and blasts are bad because it creates arguments no they don't. Shitty players just find things to argue about.
>4 turn Is dog shit just like they are in the expansions, 4 turns is not enough time for a game to really get fleshed out
Having a game be over when half my shit is still on the board is gay.
>>960987103.0 still tells you to play on 6ร4
>>96098554Yeah! Look at all the choices for cataphractii and boarding shield characters we got!
>>96098661I thought the thermal shield thing prevented that? How moronic are the rules team to allow that!
>>960986004 turns is them being cowards and admitting that they didn't test enough to guarantee enjoyable 5 turn games.
>>96098740I mean have you read the 3.0 rules?
The only thing I think is half decent is the vehicles rules but again that's because anything would be better then current vehicle rules
>>96098740Thermal shielding only provides -1 strength against the hit.
>>96098720>No it's not you just play with shitty players who like to argue about it.Interesting statement. What is an example?
>>96098710You can't tank Disintegrators on bolters in a vet tac squad, misfire hits from overloads can only be allocated to models who participated in that fire group, AKA, only the models who shot that weapon
>>96098754I thought it was only 'heat' weapons, not Disintegrators? Disintegrators are fucking stupid dangerous to the wielder...
>>96098756>Ignoring the rest of my post that gives an example about how shitty players just like to argue, just to argue Pottery.jpg
>>96098774If you can't provide an example of an argument that's on you. You stated a position, now support it with an example.
>>96098790Keep digging that hole
>>96098790Anon I gave you the example of templates
Everyone was stoked when they took templates out of 40k because shitty players always would argue about how the rules were badly written and it just caused arguments about what was and what was not under it.
When the reality is, the rules for templates are very fucking clear and it's not hard. The rule did not create arguments, shitty players created arguments.
When templates were removed the people who always argued about them, just found new shit to argue about.
New list building Tetris is pretty interesting, I like the incentives of Prime Advantages. Excited to try something like this (if I did this right):
[Iron Warriors: Traitor]
[3000pts]
[Primary Detachment] (1060)
[High Command]
- Warsmith 175
+ Cyber-familiar
+ (Combat Retinue)
[Command]
- Centurion 95
+ Thunder Hammer, Combat Shield
+ (Armoured Support, Shock Assault)
+ Prime Advantage (Paragon of Battle)
[Troops]
- Tactical Marines 110
+ Nuncio-vox
+ Prime Advantage (Logistical Benefit)
- Tactical Marines 110
+ Nuncio-vox
- Tactical Marines 110
+ Nuncio-vox
[Light Transport]
- Rhino 65
+ Dozer Blade
- Rhino 65
+ Dozer Blade
- Rhino 65
+ Dozer Blade
[Heavy Transport]
- Land Raider Carrier 265
[Combat Retinue] (955)
[Retinue]
- Praetorian Command Squad 400
+ 10x Chosen
+ 10x Thunder Hammer
+ 10x Combat Shield
+ Prime Advantage (Master Sergeant)
- Iron Circle Maniple 555
+ 4x Domitar-Ferrum
[Shock Assault] (410)
[Heavy Assault]
- Saturnine Terminators 410
+ 6x Terminators
+ 6x Plasma Bombard & Fist w/ Particle Shredder
[Armoured Support] (575)
[Armour]
- Kratos 355
+ Melta blast-gun
+ 4x Lascannons
- Predator 110
+ 2x Volkite Culverins
- Predator 110
+ 2x Volkite Culverins
I think it's a bad model but I still wanna get 1 or 2 saturnine to pose and see how they look in candy red. If I buy from scalpers can I still be based and hivemind'd?
>>96098820Prime slots are neat I do like them. Especially since none of them seem busted.
>>96098821No because you are still supporting gw by proxy.
If you really really want them, wait like 2 months and get them from either recasters or cheap off eBay when the prices are low and it's outside of GWS launch window so they won't count it.
>>96098830>Especially since none of them seem busted.That applies to quite a lot of things this edition. Its not perfectly balanced, but it seems pretty good.
>>96098804Since you didn't provide and argument I'll have to assume you meant arguing over some of the most common TLoS issues such as
>Pinhole snipingWhich I agree on and I wouldn't do
>Seeing a muzzle peek out but not body partI've been known to let that slide. I'm not going to make my opponent rotate models to hide that kind of thing.
>Wings on monsters, large parts in general that overhang the baseCan be tricky, but I talk to my opponent first
Are these the arguments you refer to? Congratulations you don't play with true line of sight! And due to failure to provide examples I don't know what you meant if I didn't cover it above. Bommer logic of "you're proving my point asking me to explain!" just means you don't have a case and your realized it.
How are the volkite weapons looking in context for the new ed? Never really found a reason to use them last edition, but I love some choom - maybe on a support or heavy squad?
>>96098857>you can only get balance by removing flavorAs it ever was
>>96098860>Didn't provide and example Holy fucking shit, read!
>>96098816
>>96098872Same as always.
Actually since it seems the way to go is pounding on targets' armor saves they're probably gonna be more useful than before.
>>96098874Wild thing but, war games are not meant to be balanced.
>>96098860This is all solved by using silhouette templates but for some reason GW is allergic to them
>>96098874I dont think thats true, but when you have less variables the remaining ones are easier to keep in mind.
I have the controversial opinion that flavor can arise from limitations, so while some (many) of the removals done in 3.0 hinder or harm flavor, some of them allow for units to have a more distinct character which can be allowed to shine through more. Options can add flavor and customization, but they can also create homogeneity and staleness
>>96098880You first.
I posted that before I saw that post. I didn't ask about templates did I? I don't care about templates when talking about TLoS. I want to know specific arguments that's the "bad gamers" tried to get up to.
>>96098897If you have less variables that means you have less granularity which means less room to balance things which means lots of things feel samy
More granularity means more flavor, means more balance.
>>96098791I'm packing a combi-Dis on my Praetor (was better in 2.0), but dropping a handful of dice with Overload2 isn't my idea of gambling...
>>96098897While you're not wrong, the Heresy at its core is a setting about space marine legions and heroes
So if you gut the differences between legions and remove what makes the heroes special, you gut the core of heresy
Even if you add more flavor somewhere else
>>96098904Wtf are you talking about!?
I posted my example way before your little rant and it's not like its gone now lol
Anon I'll lay this out once more
Tlos is fine because the rules for it are clear and the intention of it is clear, no one in good faith would say be cause I can see the tip of your wing or tail I can now shoot you. TloS works just fine but shitty players will find ways to argue it, just like templates in my example
Tlos works, if you try and say shit like "well a wing very clearly counts" you are one of those faggots that are the argumentative ones that ruined it
>>96098897Titanicus before corrupted titans is probably the most balanced game I've played. Everyone is building from the same pool of 7 models and the difference rise from maniples, legion traits, and very limited strategems, so the flavor comes from player strategy.
>>96098820>>96098830Master Sergeant would be Free Real Estate it it didn't throw you into Gambit Gardens
>>96098939It's limited for a reason
we didn't have a page with volkite weapons right?
>>96098936I agree but porphyrions were pretty busted and generally had people self limiting till they fixed the selection process.
Still the most balanced gw game i've enjoyed. And oh what's that too? Alt activations. My beloved.
>>96098719>gofile has no downsideshuh?
>>96098911I do think greater granularity means more levers with which to balance shit, but it adding more flavor im not sure about. Look at 3.0, did the added weapon granularity make them more or less flavorful? (this isnt even rhetorical, im not sure, in a way many weapons now have a defined mechanical niche and will get to shine rather than being "X but worse" or "X but better", but in another way the weapons all working within the same framework and operating within the same boundaries means that I dont know if any of them will stand out like before)
I think the answer will only be really known once people start playing, because it will essentially come down to how memorable the mechanical self expression of weapon character is. Do NL glaives feel sufficiently distinct or do they not? Do carsoran power axes and the IH axes? What about frost weapons?
>>96098955Fuck man thats a lot of porn to download in a month.
>>96098951>Alt activations. My belovedBased, but only in Initiative order/reverse order
>>96098960>Look at 3.0 Anon we lost more flavor then we gained in granularity
We also lost rules like twin likes and torrent some legions just lost chunks of their armory.
3.0 is not the example you might think it is
>>96098930>no one in good faith would say be cause I can see the tip of your wing or tail I can now shoot you.Then you don't play with TLoS. Which is fine, and ideal. You're playing morally correctly. But there is no asterisk after True in True Line of Sight. I also don't penalize my opponents for having a sword tip peeking around an otherwise obscuring wall. But I also don't pretend I play TLoS. If, for example, you dislike the rules in 3.0 for line of sight because you feel large physically open ruins should have los drawn through them that is fine, just say that.
>>96098975GW removing every instance of rerolls is the most autistic bit of rules writing I've ever seen
>>96098975>Anon we lost more flavor then we gained in granularityIsnt that literally the point? The weapon rules in 3.0 are more granular, especially in regards to melee weapons. Did that make the weapons more flavorful in the edition or not?
>we lost twin linkedThose weapons still have profiles though, its more that they lost the reroll (and gained other stuff instead, like more shots, more damage, better breaching or whatever else)
>>96098984>Weapons are more granular No they are really not the only thing they gained with damage profile while in the process losing ID, twin linked, torrent, and I'm sure other ones everything else is the same
We also lost armory options as a result of this.
Just looking at torrent torrent was a rule to distinguish and balance some type of flame weapons now that's gone for no good reason.
If the argument you are trying to make is that 3.0 is more granular? No, absolutely not it's less granular and lost flavor.
Melee did gain Im which is great, but gaining IM and damage just to lose our of ID and other special rules is not a good exchange.
>>96098975Twin linked was just built in re-roll to hit. Nothing particularly special or flavourful.
Everybody who has played since before twin linked became a re-roll complained that it no longer was just double the shots of the regular weapon.
>>96098984Nta but it isn't particularily flavourful that a champion combi melta now has a damage characteristic compared to the fact that all he can choose for range is between that and a volkite serpenta. Why those two? Because GW sells those two models. Does that mean that in the entire galaxy champions are sworn to the sacred rule of "Thy shall not have any guns outside the masterful combi melta and the perfidious serpenta."? I guess so. Does this seem flavourful to you?
>>96099005>losing IDID has been replaced with the more granular damage system, thats what that means. Instead of all or nothing "kills you" or "does one wound" weapons now have set damage values which can be set granularly per weapon (and can be further modified by other rules).
>twin linkedTwin linked is still around, it just does something else (modifies a statline in various ways, rather than "weapon + rerolls")
>If the argument you are trying to make is that 3.0 is more granular?Yes, because it absolutely is.
>>96099005Instant death was a shit rule and I'm glad to see it gone. The binary result of either taking 1 wound or just fucking dying was a shit mechanic. Instantly dying to a power fist, then only taking 1 wound to that same power fist because something gave you +1 toughness is equally trash.
>>96097938>ValrakIt's not like I had been talking about numkv for a while
>>96099040Just because you endlessly repeated a prediction until it became true doesn't mean you were right the first five dozen times.
>>96099033>>96099033Instant death as a concept is fine, its nice and dramatic and adds a feeling of fairness to things. No matter how tough and elite the other guy is one super big hit will kill him in one go, before a lascannon the chapter master and scout are equal and all that.
But yes, in practice it did lead to some unfortunate situations where those units that could skirt the rule ended up being really fucking annoying.
In a way I miss it, it feels wrong to have people being able to tank lascannons, but then again there are still weapons that do big fuckoff damage.
>>96099033I kinda agree, but honestly ID and init 1 weapons was an excellent equaliser.
It helps discourage herohammer/giga stacked units/models, when mr 200pt centurion with powerfist can eat shit basically just as easily as mr 50pt sergeant with powerfist.
The new changes mean said centurion not only can survive the powerfist hit, he also hits first since its now an init modifier.
>>96099052I was right again and again and I will be right again and again some more.
And you can never take that away from me. Not the first time, nor the following ones.
I am Autismus, Master of the Armour Legion.
>>96098923What's the point of using guns on hqs? They usually carry a single gun that won't amount to much. Meanwhile they get several times as many attacks as a single normal model in melee.
>>96099057equalizer? what? Every fucking unit that could take thunderhammers did, it was by far the only real viable melee weapon in 2.0 for 95% of things. What are you talking about.
>>96099070They fixed that for you, don't worry
You no longer have that option
>>96099086I didn't say anything about brutal you anus.
Brutal is EXTREMELY problematic and deserves the bin, yes.
>>96097938Wait a minute that's the old Mk5/mk6 power pack he's wearing.
What the fuck
>>96099022GW killing weapon options has nothing to do with the new weapon stats.
>>96099100These mog the retarded nu-Mk VI so hard.
>>96099099And if they didnt have damage 2, you would STILL take them or a Power fist, because being able to instant death 2 wound units was that important dumbass.
Instant death range defined the entire game of melee combat.
>>96099086>equalizer? what?Before S8 Ap2 all things are equal. A praetor taking that hit to the face will die the same as a terminator or marine or centurion (if the save is failed). Or at least thats what I think his point is, that the non-granular rules added an equalizing element where no matter how good or shit you were you existed in the same binary.
Which is sort of true, but also why the system was doomed long term. Because there WERE units which existed outside the binary, and those units ended up being problematic for the game because of it.
>>96099112The RG chests looks great on these
>>96099022Im talking about the actual stats of the weapons, not the options regarding who has them. (although that lack of options will in SOME cases help give units a more defined flavor, rather than just "generic elite unit" or "generic marine character")
>>96099112They do that retarded thing where the belt buckle rotates with their torso.
>>96099030it's overall less granular now than it was before.
Dmg could already be changed, but we lost the granular options of reroll1 hit/wound reroll-all hit/wound, we lost rapid fire, we lost the granularity of heavy weapons being stationary or given steady advance to move (now everything moves), we lost instant-death granular option. The game already had initiative modifiers with Reach and strike last, it gained the extra level of power-axes, that's the only thing that's slightly more granular. Adding extra attacks was already done before via dual wielding which was removed and for the very rare super-attacks weapons like twin-LC it was just hard-coded, basically no granularity was added, just reworded. But lots of granularity was removed.
>>96099110We're talking about flavour, the new weapons stats don't add it and the loss of options removes it. Those two are connected because they are something to consider when choosing to play 3.0 over another edition. Not that most people that have that choice would.
>>96099135I'll take that over the long list of things wrong with and stupid retard ugly design choices of the new ones.
>>96099095Praetors and centurions can still use everything.
>>96099153I wouldn't, at least the new ones make sense.
>>96099162Ah yes, every marine ever sharing one of five exactly the same poses makes so much sense.
>>96099135At least the torso rotates, the new ones can't do that. If you don't want to greenstuff new cables don't rotate it.
>>96099145>Those two are connected because they are something to consider when choosing to play 3.0 over another edition.My point is that those are two separate things that don't need to come together.
Bikes, jet bikes? Do tellโฆ
>>96098981The 1st ti.e a TLoS argument but me, I thought, But, the intention is clearly to have the upward projection of the plane around the model base be the Truth, here.
But they cried and whined, and I let it go. Im sorry. I ended the Hammer Wars.
>>96099117Not really.
Making literally every single strong melee unit be 2w is what led to mono ID weapons in 2e.
That, combined with the WS table changes mean that yes, you have a system where everything that matters is (at least) 2w and needs ID weapons, and generally higher WS will just shit on lower WS.
But 1e was very different. 2w units were relatively rare, and WS4 hitting on 4+ against WS5 meant 'weaker' units could very easily just drown terminators and the like in a million saves before they can strike with their fists.
Berserker assault world eaters would just drown absolutely everything in 100 chainaxe attacks from a single squad, and it made unwieldy units shit themselves.
So yes, 2e is problematic, but its a problem of their own creation, and isn't the only alternative to what 3e is.
>>96098982Every instance is dumb, but Master Crafted and Chaplains are my exceptions
>>96099141>it's overall less granular now than it was before.This is objectively incorrect.
>Dmg could already be changed,No it couldnt. There was no way to have a weapon that would oneshot terminators but not centurions or praetors, for example. Damage was either "1" or "however many wounds the target has", or brutal, in which case it was "however many wounds the target has but they have to make two saves instead". Thats basically the entire problem.
>we lost the granularity of heavy weapons being stationary or given steady advance to move (now everything moves)Heavy weapons still have maluses for moving (or rather benefits for standing still) and some special rules still allow them to move and maintain those bonuses.
>we lost instant-death granular optionInstant death is not granular, it is binary. It either kills you or it does one wound. It is the opposite of granular, it is a binary rule. Either you die or you ignore it. It being the foundation of melee combat previously was a problem.
>The game already had initiative modifiers with Reach and strike last, it gained the extra level of power-axes,And thunder hammers which are I-2 (as opposed to fists at I-3). It also gained attack modifiers baked into the weapon (like with the chainfist). It also gained the granular damage, which allows weapons to deal a wider range of injury and possess different threat profiles.
>>96099170Those are all poses a marine might make, his belt rotating with his torso would never happen.
>>96099172>At least the torso rotatesIt does so in a retarded way, if you have even a slight degree of rotation then it looks wrong.
>>96099100mk5 wearing mk5 powerpack. wowza.
I do agree they're great though.
>>96099135Its a separate torso, how else are they gonna work?
>>96099173I wish they didn't.
>>96098984"Granular" is a numerical separation; flavour is a subjective outcome.
>>96099176Bikes seem good. 20ppm, 2w, four shouts each (since twin bolters just give four shots flat). They can also firestorm at full BS
>>96099182WE inductii annihilating elite melee units four times their points cost without effort was kinda problematic as well though.
>>96099192Again, no one is holding a gun to your head that forces you to rotate them. If you think something looks stupid then don't do that thing.
>>96099033Id was fine the reason you hates it was because the weapon that everyone took was the th which was id against T4
The th was the problem, because it doubled the number of saves.
I would challenge you to go play a game of HH 2.0, and remove brutal from TH it feels fine at that point
The reason is, is because statistically speaking each wound caused by a th will kill a cata terminator out right no matter what.
>>96099204I know, hence
>>96098960Whether the added weapons granularity of 3.0 leads to more/less/similar amounts of flavor will end up being determined once people actually play the game, and see if the weapons feel different to use and develop different mechanical personalities.
>>96099190>Heavy weapons still have maluses for moving (or rather benefits for standing still) and some special rules still allow them to move and maintain those bonuses.Nta but this is one of the few things I really dislike about the new core rules. Especially with the new snapshots. I much prefer the tactical planning of not really being able to move heavy weapons. I also dislike how over the place and gamey the new heavy bonuses are.
>>96099193>Its a separate torso, how else are they gonna work?Don't have the rotation happen at the belt.
>>96099208>Again, no one is holding a gun to your head that forces you to rotate them.But many people do and it looks bad. Also if it shouldn't rotate then the case for having it rotate is pretty much non existent.
>>96099127>>96099112>>96099100I love mine. They've been stacking bodies of Primarchs, their retinues, Tau, and CSM for over ten years. Shame I lost one over the years.
>>96099207Yes, I am not trying to say 'x edition was perfect in every way and you suck cocks if you don't play my favorite edition'.
Every edition has its pros and cons, every edition added new problems and fixed others.
I'm just pointing out that saying '3e melee is vastly superior because 2e had problems' is a dumb argument when they're not even the only official options, let alone homebrew tweaks.
>>96099219Been playing since 4th edition, instant death has always been a shit mechanic. The power creep with eternal warrior and other special rules similar to it also needlessly bloated games rules, as did the even specialer rules that also bypassed eternal warrior that followed. It is a garbage rule even without the multiplier of Brutal added to it.
>>96099241stick to your monopose then I guess
>>96099241The torso should be separate because it makes it compatible with the FW legion specific bodies without having to cut it off.
>But many people do and it looks bad.Many people do incredibly retarded shit like painting marines in homebrewed lost legion colors. Doesn't mean that marines should come prepainted so people stop doing that.
file
md5: 3ca9faf2d1432263eccfc4f12f35c187
๐
>if the automata tard wrangler gets scared, the entire unit flees with him despite being immune
???
>>96099270>The torso should be separate because it makes it compatible with the FW legion specific bodies without having to cut it off.No, I think the old style bodies need to be confined to the garbage. If GW was smart they'd have made it so that breastplates were separate bits, and made Legion specific breastplates.
They even have done this with the Indomitus terminators in 40k.
Hey anons, I was indisposed during the announcement of 3.0 and haven't been on /tg/ in weeks. Can I get a quick tldr of what you all think of the new edition? Thanks a ton.
>>96099100Beakies Fucking Own
>BFO
>>96099298If you make the belt part of the legs, and have the torso just be the chest bit, then the powercable won't line up with the belt instead of the belt not lining up with the legs.
You're never gonna get it 'right' unless you do monopose or sculpt shit yourself.
>>96099296>Aaahhh my robots, to me! Protect my ass while I run away!
>>96099328Probably why the went monopose.
>>96099242Gee Corvus, how come you had TWO old mk6 upgrades?
>>96099296>the guy controlling the robots gets scared and runs away (taking his robots with him)Also it seems like admech will struggle to score this edition possibly. Just take some snipers to kill the tech-priests
>>96099190>thunder hammers which are I-2 (as opposed to fists at I-3)TH are supposed to outperform PF, and explode while doing it. +1i -1S does NOT outperform fists, it's a side grade
>>96099182World Eaters were basically unplayable in 2.0 because of the WS chart, their only good option was overcosted Rampagers.
>>96099207No it wasn't, you just shot them off the board because they were vulnerable to everything. The best world eater legion armies in 1.0 weren't the despoiler inducti armies, they were the ones leveraging how absurdly cost efficient their veteran squads were.
World Eaters have never been overtuned in this game because they are so reliant on getting the charge off.
>>96099350They even had two base sets. The running pose and your pic, walking. I bought one of each.
>>96099358>it's a side gradeIts a better weapon for fighting marines (and in particular power fist users) while being worse into tanks and heavy walkers/automata. This is a better design than "power fist but (irrelevant extra rule)" or "power fist (but infinitely better)"
>>96099358My wild take
In 2.0 TH should be s+3, swing at i2 ap 2, murderous strike 5, not brutal(2)
Power axes should be I3 s+1 ap2
>>96099360>overcosted RampagersFalax rampagers are pretty absurdly killy in 2.0 honestly.
rending 4+ means they can blend terminators, but just as important in 2e, they can blend dreads.
>No it wasn't, you just shot them off the board because they were vulnerable to everythingLaughs in double spartan
God I miss 1.0 WE, it was nothing if not fluffy and satisfying to play.
>>96099224Copy; maybe HH should incorporate a Tick/Tock upgrade cycle, doing re-stats to make adjustments after rule reworks
New thread? Kinda wanted to ask why people were saying the rules read like theyโre ai generated.
>>96099371>walking, running and sometimes kneeling poses>swappable bits>posable minis>HWs with custom power packs>legion torsos, helmets and pads>sometimes for multiple marksWas plastic really worth it
>>96099413>AI is a hot topic that I don't understand at all and is scaring me, so everything I don't like must have been made by AI. That's the reason.
>>96099417No. It never was.
>>96099417If it were 10 years ago, the plastic would have a bunch of this too
>>96099413Because they're so badly written it's hard to believe someone paid and entrusted with the task would have done so.
>>96099300>Can I get a quick tldr of what you all think of the new edition?youre better off finding a youtube vid for that buddy theres so much shit i doubt anyone here is gunna stop doomposting to drop a comprehensive review for you. Better off unpacking the garbage yourself or going back through the initial leak drops on 4plebs
>>96099371Wait really? I didn't realise it was actually 2 separate kits, I don't see any pics online
>>96099381You think I want a TH to fight MARINES? No, it's anti-vehicle/fortification. Marines have tons of tools to kill marines. Like Claws.
>>96099391Nah. THUNDER, guise, thunder. It's a Power weapon that explodes on the target. It used to be too heavy for powerarmorfags, at all, termi-only.
>>96099417Honestly? no.
Resin has superior mold options over plastic, which really helped with the various different armour mark designs.
In plastic they either have to change the design or make it in way more parts (and they ended up doing both things).
But then, I recast anyway, so recasting plastic models has no particular benefit, so maybe I'm biased. If you're buying genuine product, plastic is miles cheaper.
>>96099413AI often summarizes information and gives really fucked up longform points. Much how Google AI summary looks. So the rulebook format following that looks like the writers taught a learning model to help write the rules. Probably because suits up high bought an AI suite and is pushing it everywhere.
>>96099490I miss the days when thunder hammers were terminator armour only.
>>96099396Crimson Path Rampagers with all Falax and Jump Packs and a Chaplain Deep Striking was absolutely underplayed in 2.0
Do Golden Keshig have Vanguard?
>>96098401Vulkan wins becuase FW is too stupid to see Eternal 3 and regen D3 wounds per turn is a stupi combo, as he just can basically live forver. But of the otehrs I think there could be some fun results to see.
>>96098573The fun thing is due to how challanges work I think it could be a lot more interesting than that. FOr example Russ on the charge could use the Feint Gambit to stop Horus extra Damage. Horus without the +1D takes 3 turns to kill Russ. But Russ can leave Horus on 3 wounds. Then on the final turn he has one wound less than Horus, but his higher initiative and due to Worldbreaker being -2I he still has the advanteage. Then he uses the +1D gambit and he could kill Horus with a bit of luck. It is a bit closer than one thinks (and without Gambits Russ wins due to his higher I a fair amount of times). It is one of the better things GWs did on 3.0 IMO, but they have sucekd so much showing with their useless videos. Vulkan wins due to him basically immortal to most Primarchs, but I thikn the raw numbers could even make it fun to detemrine base who wins, and also see how good Gambits are. I want to do the simulations and options myself to have some fun with a terrible Edition.
>>96099518No, but Ebon Keshig do.
>>96099513Some lists will just delete you with interceptor though.
Honestly 2e had so many cursed problems.
They added DS charge cheese, and countered it by adding absurd intercept cheese.
>>96099536Fuck that's lame
Guess WS are footsloggers now
>>96098951Of course it had problems. Everyting does. But playing intro games without the bliat drives home how good the rules are.
>>96099470I think there were like ~4 kits for each mark
>despoiler>tactical>heavy weapons>assaultAssault had a different chest plate, but afair the legs were all different and compatible
So you had a lot of little variation like that
>>96099502Holy shit the rules do look like Google ai
>>96099543No WS are the Rhino Rush legion. WS Despoilers in a Rhino have a threat range of 22", any unit not staying inside the enemy deployment zone will be locked in combat turn 1
>>96099417There was nothing forcing them to make shit plastic kits
>>96099552Yeah I am aware of them for other marks, but for the mark 6 set I have only ever seen the tactical set, I wasn't aware they made others?
Similar with mk.5, they had a tac set and an assault squad set, but afaik no heavy weap/despoiler set.
Genuinely keen to see pics if you do have them, autism over extra poses and shit is my jam.
>>96099565Anything other than being the bike legion is a downgrade
>>96099513every time Crimson Path was brought up in /hhg/ it was like you'd suggested sucking off Hitler
>>96099581Well bikes are finally playable too. You just need some infantry on the side to be able to capture objectives.
>>96099599Are they? They kinda got gay'd anon.
Only 1 attack base, plasma got nerfed hard, lost weapon options.
>>96099599Skyhunters were bad but afaik the Keshig were pretty good in 2.0, no?
And honestly I'd rather play assault marines than tacos in boxes
>>96099242Are those Marines with fucking M203โs!?!?
Sick!
I always wanted just one Marine with a Thump gun. Drum grenade launchers make more sense etc etc but ole one-shot-one-kill is just my taste. Iโm dogshit at greenstuff and have no access to a printer so ionno if that idea will ever make the table.
>>96099490>You think I want a TH to fight MARINES?Yes, you want thunder hammers for duelling other enemy elites.
>No, it's anti-vehicle/fortificationThats chainfists.
>>96099573You're right, doesn't look like mk5 & 6 had those
Mk5 assault squad didn't have a special torso by the looks of it, so it kinda gets a pass
I'm sure looking at the original release date would yield some answers as to why mk5&6 were left out.
>>96099569The suits fear of people using third party bits to customize their own mini's they bought so they don't look exactly like GW brand minis was what forced them.
>>96099490>it's anti-vehicle/fortificationBro the chainfist is right there
>>96099620Correct, sky hunters were meh, outriders were shit, and golden keshig were funking bonkers.
>>96099619>Are they? They kinda got gay'd anon.Outriders? Theyre 2w each with a load of dakka and the ability to fire it twice per turn essentially. For 20pts theyre a steal.
>>96099622Hell yeah, 40mms of mankind's superiority.
Atalan jackals have M79s.
>have to wait 5 minutes to post a new bread
what the fuck is this garbage
>>96099630It really annoys me that mk4 assault squads are the only ones (other than destroyers which have pistol shit as part of the sculpt) they released that had the 'proper' additional chest plate. They look miles better than the exposed cable variants.
On the flipside, I don't like the look of the straps on the mk2 assault squads, I think the plainer version is nicer.
My recaster doesn't sell many individual bits, and as I magnetise my basic guys to swap between despoiler and assault squads, I have a huge deficit of normal backpacks.
Luckily they started selling the mk5 powerpack (as there was no mk5/6 despoiler kit), so I am now just buying loads of that.
>>96099659Can Moritats join them? Free stuncancel seems tech.
>>96099619Outriders can shoot twice each turn, and their twin plasmagun still has breaching 4+. They can light up something with 4 plasma shots per bike before deciding to charge in or not to mob up survivors. And outriders do have Vanguard.
>>96099620Golden Keshig were a meme tier unit. Could potentially one-tap a dreadnought before it could swing, but the hold reaction completely shut them down.
Assault marines work wonders too with WS I think. 14" move with 5" set up move.
>>96099413I think the material that AI has been trained off of (essays, scientific journals, tech documentation), leads to AI putting out writing with a lot of superfluous words, uniform sentence structure, and repetition of concepts. The new rulebook is written much differently than anything else GW has put out, with a lot of the "hallmarks" of AI writing. However, these hallmarks, when used by a human, actually lend themselves to internal consistency (rules don't contradict each other) and lack of redundancy (you don't have two different rules that do the same thing). I don't think it's a particularly pleasant kind of writing for the reader, and I think people are feeling that and saying a computer must have written it, even though the biggest indicators of AI, redundancy and lack of consistency, are not present.
>>96099300Fixed the main issues with 2.0, but currently lacking wargear and options that are hopefully in legacies. The balance of the game has shifted with a majority of weapons not hitting as hard, and the changes to challenges and the melee related phases are weird but who fucking knows until we get a few games in with books and legacies in hand
>>96099457Alrighty then, fair enough.
>>96099684They can do it without him, they also have firestorm iirc.
>>96099417Do you want accessible options like tactical squads that donโt cost a kidney cause rn itโs $80 for 20 tacs or $100+ for 5 resin dudes from gw lmao. Beyond that their resin printing is in the uk which heavily taxes resin printing
>>96098816The irony is TLOS was raped into 40K in the first place because that Dago faggot wanted to...avoid player arguments, in his tournament-mentality-focused rewrite of the game. You're literally advocating in favour of a mechanic that was added for the reasons you're trying to ascribe to the people who want it reverted to the vastly superior original method.
TLOSfags are bordering on AAtroon levels of obnoxiousness these days.
>>96099622>Are those Marines with fucking M203โs!?!?Looks like old Anvil bolters and launchers. Only one they still sell is the one for Guard, but I'm sure one can figure out how to make it work on bolters:
https://anvilindustry.co.uk/underslung-grenade-launchers-6-regiments-scale
They also make M79s:
https://anvilindustry.co.uk/m79-launcher
>>96099723>He things that tlos is worse then an entire unit being able to shoot from the tip of a spear.
>>96099590A free *wound* every *phase*???
>>96097895So another lie. No mandatory picks in the new army building design they said.
>>96099813that's not at all how it works but go off, retard
>>96094306Wakanda shouldn't have started shit
>>96094375What was your strategy for the hazard stripes on the knees? I struggle with those areas
>>96094375based and pauldrons against body pilled
>>96094722Huh, does the Iron Warrior trait even protect vehicles and deeds from shock?
>>96098152>Stormcast Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers